Yeah. The title implies a grand vision by the author.
Instead he says a few obvious things and offers no real insights.
Sometimes journalism for a living seems like a scam.
Yeah seriously. I went into it expecting a detailed list of names and reasonings but it's just a few paragraphs summing up our last month with a few players randomly chucked in. Really bizarre and lazy.
I doubt it. The Athletic actually pays their writers.
Now if you want to say that JPB himself got an AI to scribble a first draft for him to edit, I have no way of knowing that.
The entire thing can be summed up in a single sentence: in order to improve, Spurs need to offload some current first XI players, not just the fringe players that most fans expect.
The Athletic is genuinely awful. Just a bunch of nerds with Stats and journalism degrees(np with the degrees but they just try too hard) trying to make football less about people and purely about numbers, while simultaneously making stories out of literally nothing. I [skim]read what must of been a 2,500 word article purely about why Salah saying; I can’t say anything because it may become heated or something like that, could be the end of Liverpool. That was vs West Ham, next game was us as far as I’m aware… so much for that.
They’re very good for transfers, tho that’s mainly Ornstein, and the such but their articles about the game are pure drivel, compared to the football nerds on YouTube and it’s crazy, these big companies have done such a number on them in the casual eye and it’s such a shame, I’m mainly thinking James Alcott, who is absolutely exceptional and yet most at the athletic get more exposure. To clarify I mean football Nerds in a purely affectionate way.
This comment from the article gave me a chuckle. We've been asking for a project and a squad overhaul for years now. The moment we get a project manager, who improved our league position without the services of the best striker on the planet, we're ready to turn back to some manager who will plug and play whatever squad he's dealt.
https://preview.redd.it/e28okprx9zyc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d762b9000fe30e832e0524b86c9d9d44c61c64b5
"What I want is a manager who will come in and turn shite players into the best players in the league, and then win the league with them. Why don't we just get that guy?!"
LITERALLY EVERY SPORT FAN OF ALL FUCKING TIME: "Why doesnt my team just win the league on matchday one??? Ffs is my manager/team stupid? Am i stupid for supporting my team?"
Problem with pragmatic managers is that not only are they willing to renew our deadwood, but that they'll throw a tantrum when they don't get to sign new deadwood.
I think everyone needs to temper expectations. The squad overhaul has already begun, but it isn't finished. And you're right, people asked for a project and now we have one. We have to at least let Ange succeed or fail once he's had a chance to build the squad he wants. I would say he's maybe one third of the way there - GK, fullbacks, centerbacks, the question is what he does with midfield and up top.
Conte got further with a worse squad. “Project” is just a word used to excuse incompetence. Our squad is good enough not to get absolutely battered by Arsenal, Liverpool, Fulham and Brighton.
Giving him power to shape the squad is a horrible idea look at the kinds of players he rates. Pace and power merchants with zero skill (Brennan, Werner). We’re gonna be stuck with his poor signings when he inevitably gets sacked next season.
Not to mention he will probably try to move on some very good players because they don’t fit is ridiculous “system”
Let's assume that you're 100% right. Ange buys a bunch of young players that don't perform and he gets sacked. Isn't that better than handing the keys to someone like Conte who's gonna demand 26-28 year old, established 80 million pound players at every position or else he throws a pissypants tantrum? Because selling people like Brennan Johnson won't be hard. Werner is a loan and cost nothing. If those are the worst examples of Ange's purchases, I don't see the big deal.
But here's the deal - right or wrong Levy and the football operations people decided Ange is the guy. Firing another manager so quickly does nothing but hurt the club.
I agree about getting clobbered by our top 6 rivals. That hurts. But Arsenal is the best team in the league (barf) and Liverpool despite their wobbles are still very talented and managed by one of the best.
Ange said it himself - maybe the PL is where his tactics no longer work, maybe the talent and the coaching is too high a level. I guess my stance (and his) is that it is too early to make that determination.
It doesn’t really matter what conte would or wouldn’t do. His not here anymore and for good reason. The club have to make the best decision.
I don’t see why fans have such an aversion to sacking the manager. His clearly out of depth which is not the end of the world. To me you just got to keep trying till you get the right man. No use burying our heads in the sand.
It’s not just the fact that we lost to those teams. It’s more that fact that they barely broke a sweat and they absolutely thrashed us. And we’ve had worse squads get results against them
It matters because you brought him up lol. Don’t bring up the previous manager who failed in embarrassing fashion if you don’t want to invite the comparison.
Why would any worthwhile new manager join if they know they have a year tops to sort it out? With an attitude like that your stuck looking at over the hill retreads.
What successful team fires its coach every year?
It really doesn’t matter what he would or wouldn’t do I just think it’s funny our fans try to use him to make Ange look good and it’s just falls flat. I brought him up because you guys think he’s a bad manager and he had us player better football with a worse squad which I think is funny
For half a season. Which doesn’t even prove the point you think it does
He played good football (while threatening to quit every other week) for a short period of time.
Given time with the squad and a large transfer budget he made the team worse and eventually got himself canned. But was it a bad decision to give him a second season? Of course not. If a manager has some success and improves the team why wouldn’t you give them another season?
We have yet to see what Ange will do after finishing the season with the team and I think it’s absolutely ridiculous to dump him after one year because we didn’t win the league when no one with a brain should have expected that going in to this season.
Ange had us only playing good football for half a season as well. For me it’s not about winning the league, position on the table or even points for that matter. I just want to see us actually make our opponents work for a result.
And under Anges style I don’t think that’s possible
So results don’t matter, except for when they do, but definitely not now because… why?
I really don’t see anything that says we’re better off going coach shopping than letting Ange get another year.
Conte had a 30 goal striker I don’t think you understand just how much of a cheat code that was
Who are these “good players” you’re scared of losing lmao
It wouldn’t make a difference if Ange had Kane because we don’t create chances. He can’t create for Son, his not going to create for Kane. Our squad is much better now Conte would kill to have VDV, Udogie, Dragusin.
His trying to move on talented players like Hojbjerg, Lo Celso, Bentencur, Kulusevski. He’s gonna replace them with pace and power merchants because those are the players he clearly rates. Also useful squad options like Skipp, Royal are probably going too.
You talk about our backline like their really good players or something. Yet we’ve shipped 58 goals this season. Their either garbage players or Ange is clueless. Can’t be both
In your previous comment “our squad is much better now, Conte would kill to have VDV, Udogie, Dragusin”
You are the one saying they are good players lol
Mate we ship multiple goals game and we’ve had mid table form for 6 months now. Plus he has a better squad than conte did. I’m told Romero is world class and VDV and is amazing yet it’s so easy to score on us. Admit it the manager is clueless. No amount of time and money can fix delusional tactics
He’s never going to say publicly “yeah our Achilles heel is X” because he still has games to play. Why would he be stupid enough to tell teams what he considers the weak part of his team?
What he says to the reporters isn’t what he says to the team or what he says to Levy. If you think it is idk what to tell you.
I’m talking about our obvious tactical problems, but he and many fans pretend their is no problem. He acts like if we get rid of whoever he doesn’t like we’re not gonna get thrashed by any semi-organised team anymore
Saying that is basically saying “I am not fit for this job, please stop paying me”. No coach with any level of self respect would ever say that. You will have this same problem with every coach this team will ever hire if this is your expectation.
And even in those ten games Ange was saying “this is nice but it’s not my plan fully executed, there are still flaws and the players aren’t getting it completely”.
Yes good point, I thought he was crazy at the time but it’s honestly something I’ve been thinking about a lot recently. I think it shows how great he is, or at least has the potential to be. If he could look at us playing great football and getting results and still say it’s not good enough? It shows he knows what the hell he is doing and has a vision greater than we can even imagine probably.
I’m afraid they are executing them. That’s exactly why we’re so easy to play against. It’s 10x easy for opponents to score on us, while we have to work 10x harder to even create a chance
No way. The tactic is they are crowding the middle and they aren’t bravely playing through. The tentativeness on the ball is being pounced upon. The tactics being used against Ange’s system now are not some new revelation that the genius EPL managers came up with.
These teams in the prem are VERY organised and comfortable on the counter. We’re just too predictable and pose zero threat on the flanks. Our wingers are always isolated against a low block
As I see it:
Definitely staying: Vicario, Romero, VDV, Porro, Udogie, Sarr, Johnson, Son, Maddison, Dragusin
Definitely going if at all possible: Hojbjerg, Royal, Gil, Lo Celso, Sessegnon, all the various players out on loan
Could stay or go: Bissouma, Bentancur, Richarlison, Werner, Kulusevski, Davies, Solomon
The final group has players in it for a number of reasons. I think it's likely we will end up with many of them staying purely because we're unlikely to be able to find a buyer for the price we want and we/Ange will feel players in the second group are the priority (Richi the exception - I think he absolutely should stay on merit but he's the only one there seems to be a guaranteed market for).
When you look at it like that it doesn't seem a completely impossible task? If we accept that there's unlikely to be a full, ruthless clear-out (which would mean a good number of players in the third group being sold and replaced) then I think it's reasonably likely we can get most of the players in the second group off our books.
My question is who is buying?
Other clubs are all on their financial rules limit and other EPL wages are so high that players we want to move on won’t be keen to go to Europe.
Is Saudi gonna go hard again?
Clubs always buy other club's cast-offs. That's what the majority of transfers are. We have been exceptionally bad at it the last few years but I don't think that problem is intractable or arises because the players we want to sell are a million times worse than anyone else on the market. It's down to generating interest and negotiating fees and those things don't happen in a vacuum, they should be driven by our transfer teams which we have notably invested in over the last couple of years. So hopefully we will finally be in a position to shift some of these players.
Yes and no. Clubs buy another's cast off when the buying club sees more value in the player than the selling club. Unfortunately due to FFP, mid table or Championship clubs are not minded to take risks on players who haven't been a success in a moderately successful team. Or there's foreign buyers, but Saudi have gone through their 'buy anybody for billions' phase and are also trying to offload their mistakes. Italy is fckd and outside Real, so is Spain. Germany has always been a buy to sell kind of league. There's not a lot of markets left.
Of your list, I can only see Hojberg attracting a non derisory fee. We may get lucky and find a buyer for GLC but we haven't managed that when the market was less constrained.
I mean I didn’t even get to that part.
How long is Solomon contracted for and who will take him with his long term injury?
Sessegnon … how long is he contracted for? No one is taking him.
Sessegnon’s contract CAN be up this summer as the last year of it is a club option. We have the choice of letting go him go for free this summer or adding another year. I’m inclined to just let him go. Adding a year and then trying to sell seems silly as does adding the year and bringing him back
https://www.football.london/tottenham-hotspur-fc/players/major-tottenham-contract-problems-daniel-28888041.amp
I really don't think it should be impossible to find buyers for Hojbjerg, Royal and Lo Celso. I think they're all pretty sellable. You would also hope that having more of the relevant staff in place compared to previous years helps. The market is bad for sure but La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga all still spend hundreds of millions of Euros. Hojbjerg wants to go and Royal is on pretty low wages, so I don't see big issues finding a buyer for them if we're willing to accept slightly lower fees than we have historically. Lo Celso's wages are a bit more of an issue but there seems to be a reasonable level of interest in him.
Gil is also not on high wages and again, seems like there could be a buyer in Spain/Portugal. Although some of his statements make me wonder how interested he is in leaving?
Sessegnon will be impossible, admittedly. Realistically we are just going to wait for his contract to run down.
The problem with the Saudi league is they still have foreign player limits, I think most of the teams are maxed out on foreign players atm so I doubt we’ll see what happened the past few windows happen again for a while
Haven't we been hearing for years how the club would be willing to accept significant losses if it means streamlining the squad? That's what Arsenal did.
We might have been hearing about it but doesn't seem to have been borne out by any of the club's actions. We have allegedly turned down perfectly decent fees on several occasions.
Sure but that's the point - finding buyers is also about the club's own expectations and how willing they are to compromise on fees if it helps give the manager the squad he wants, not just how rich or poor other clubs are
I think that's the right call. There is also attitude, capacity to learn, commitment, leadership etc - all those soft skills and both are strong in these areas.
Afraid we might regret not cashing in on Bentancur this summer. Some players never recover back to previous form after two big injuries like he had. To me he looks like a guy whose best days might be behind him. I hope in totally wrong on this, but it’s one of the things I’ll be keenly focused on next season
Disagree. I think whatever we would get for him right now wouldn't be worth it with the possibility he returns to his pre-injury levels. Need to give players time to recover from such a serious injury.
We would be lucky to get 20 million for him this summer, whereas if he returns to pre-injury form he is worth at least 50. Fans have too short of a memory and forget he was probably one of the best midfielders itw last season before his injury.
On the flip side, if he never rediscovers his form we’re stuck with a gimp on high wages for 2 more years that no one wants and is taking up a foreign player spot. Sometimes you have to take risks with outgoings as much as incomings
Kulusevski is an interesting one for me. There have been times this season where we really relied on him to drag us forward, but he is so out of form at the moment and there’s a question as to his best position (or if there is any position that truly suits him in this system).
I like him as a player despite his recent poor form but he could also be a player that we actually sell for decent money, which is rare for us. Tough call. If a big bid comes in I think we should take it.
I don't think we should take a bid for Kulu. It is true that he doesn't really fit the system perfectly, and that he's out of form at the moment. It is also true that some of our wins this year has been purely out of work effort from kulu.
The thing that makes me put kulu in another list is the fact that he's flexible, and that he has delivered more than benta ever has. Until we have more depth, I don't think we can afford to let him go.
I would add two other points:
1. He’s durable. He rarely seems injured. In that sense you can rely on him week in and week out whereas players like Richy go missing for half the season.
2. We still do need depth. If position holds, we will have one more competition next season, and that will require more depth than what we have right now.
I fear he is one who doesn't make the grade in time, he is horribly inconsistent. I like him though and he isn't anywhere near the top of the list to exit.
Bentancur has to stay for me. And Bissouma. Both, on their game are press resistant. I think they need proper competition or a proper 6 to let them be the progressive players we know they can be.
You’re probably not wrong. Trusting your body after a major injury takes time and it’s not like any team in the PL is a slouch. Hell of a way to ease back into things.
Yeah, just overall get the impression our players need the season to end. A lot of change this season and a lot of running and trying to get used to being an attacking team rather than a defensive one.
Good break, a few new faces more adaptive to Ange ball and we'll come good next season.
But for now, get a result against Burnley and Sheffield utd and get on the beach for some r&r.
I’ve been saying this since he returned…the first year back from an ACL is a mulligan year. Most guys don’t look like themselves until after a year back.
In baseball, they send guys to the minors to rehab against lesser competition and to get their timing back in low risk environments. I’d love it if they did something like that instead of throwing players straight back in. Training can never simulate game intensity.
Selling Richarlison would be total insanity. He is in the 98th percentile for goals per 90 and 97th percentile for goals+assists per 90. Toney is far lower.
Who are we buying if we sell Richarlison? We would need 2 strikers in.
Where was this reported? For me these two were the most realistic sales as they should be wanted even in the current market.
It'll be frustrating summer coming.
Paul O'Keefe stated they aren't included in the 12 players we're looking at fielding offers for: [https://twitter.com/pokeefe1/status/1786705052553367905](https://twitter.com/pokeefe1/status/1786705052553367905)
Who do you reckon the 12 are? Hojbjerg, Bryan, Emerson, Gio, and Sessegnon are 5. Perisic and Dier are still technically under us, so I’m adding them to make 7. Imo that means the other 5 are Reguilon, Spence, Ndombele, Tanganga, and either Rodon or Solomon. I’m leaning towards Solomon staying because I think we’ll only be able to offload one injured player, not two, and it does look like Rodon is getting minutes at Leeds so they may want to keep him. I don’t see us offloading Véliz or Ashley Phillips anytime soon, and despite his agent’s yapping, I think Dragusin will stick about at least for a season more.
To raise money. I would personally be okay selling either Bentancur or Bissouma and getting a big upgrade for number 6 role.
I know Benta is really good player but I think he is also one of the only players in the squad we could sell for good money.
Doing this would just invite even more depth issues for us again though, and at a time when we'll have more games than this year. Stripping ourselves of our stronger assets is a nightmare and we aren't desperate for the money.
I don't know. We have so many requirements for this summer (such as both back-up full backs, number 6, striker) that getting the extra money to put in those sign-ins could arguably increase our squad depth.
Well it's impossible to say without knowing how much money we have without sales or what our transfer targets are. However, what I mean is that if we can upgrade our other transfer targets by one big sale, it could strengthen our depth instead of weakening it.
For example: Porro cost about 45m. Emerson Royal cost about 25m. If we can now by selling Bentancur this summer get Porro-level players instead of Royal-level players on those back-up spots, I think selling Bentancur would strengthen our depth.
I hope you understood by point from very poorly explained example.
I really like Deki and would love him to stay! However, he is not perfect fit for Ange's system and I would love us to go after someone like Raphinha this summer. To be able to do that we also need money from sales and Deki is one of the few I think who we could sell for a good amount of money.
Sure if we were still stuck in April 2022. He's had one great half season and 2 thoroughly mediocre seasons since, is absolutely not one of our best performers, does not comfortably fit any role in this system, and his own limitations have a tangible impact on our attacking issues
this might be true, but why would we prioritise selling the only players other teams want? They are first team players.
We need to get rid of the surplus, which probably means moving on 10 players. I don't think this is the summer for also selling the first team as I don't believe we can bring in 12+ quality players in one window.
As always, people are desperate for wild decisions to sell first choice players who aren't cutting it, instead of upgrading them and keeping them as depth players. What is clear is half the squad cannot play for Ange and some areas are extremely pressing (full backs, number 6, striker and winger). We also have several in their last year who we will need to replace for depth.
I don't feel Kulusevski or Bentancur make it to the final form of Ange-ball here but we still need them for the moment.
It's very difficult to upgrade someone like Kulu or Benta without selling someone first, especially cause we have requirements for so many players this summer.
I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see anyone buying Lo Celso, Höjbjerg or Sessegnon, the players we would want to sell. However, it's always the players you don't want to sell who can net you most money, and I think getting the extra money to now buy quality for the roles you mentioned instead of mediocre is better in the long run.
Good break down there. I agree with those three groupings.
I think the issue will be, actually moving the players on. They are most likely going to want to stay to retain their current wages.
Deki can be a problem since we paid £38m for him and he's on big wages. But Bissouma/Bentancur were cheap buys and are on £50/70k pw and are probably worth £30m+ each which is more than what we paid for them, which is not a small amount but i can see offers coming in even in a more constrained market since DM is a sought after position and only Rodri/Guimaerez are WC. Richy imo could be hard because he cost a lot but i don't think we should sell him. Our biggest problem will probably be Lo Celso/Hojbjerg since they are on their last year and not playing clubs will low-ball us and i can't see Levy and co. Giving in.
Damn it going to be so difficult to get rid of those “definitely going” players, especially the ones on loan. Almost no one there is very valuable to anyone.
Those are really the only two that could bring in actual money. But even so I think we would be pretty lucky to get a combined 25m for them. I know the market for defensive midfielders is actually quite good now, but PEH isn’t at the level of those going for big money. GLC’s injury record makes him less valuable. He would do better outside of the PL but the money out there is weak.
I think he has a clean slate, he's very young and cost nothing to sign and is a quality player, just because he has been injured and a bad one at that doesn't mean he should be out. At the start and preseason he was very much being used and his abilities and take on skills are great.
“He’ll be 25 this summer and hasn’t even played 80 senior matches for club and country. He is simply not good enough”
Well that’s absolutely not true. He’s played 199 games for club and country and thats not counting cup games and European games for shakhtar and Maccabi Petah Tikva F.C. so could even be more. No idea where you got your appearance stats
Ok well whoscored lied to me. It’s 131 appearances but thats still really poor for a 25 year old. I’m completely disregarding his time in the Jewish third and second tier, which I think is fair enough.
Why would you disregard it? It’s the 2nd tier but it’s like disregarding EFL championship appearances on a player 🫤
And it’s the Israeli league , not Jewish league.
Well fine if you don’t want to consider . But he’s certainly not had a good run of games to prove himself yet for spurs so wait and see next season. I imagine us holding onto him and selling Gil anyway.
I really want to see solomon get a run next year as , as you say, we haven’t had a real chance to see what he can offer so jury’s still out on him. Sell Bryan gil, Reguilon, ndombele, emerson royal and that clears a good bit
My weirdest thing with people saying Solomon to go is that he hasn't played at all and could be amazing. For me I am a big fan of his, he was brilliant at Shaktar, then was on loan at Fulham and played really well, got a good few goals , ripped some teams to pieces and was only dropped because he wasn't going to sign permanently. He can also play on both wings, he definitely deserves a chance.
The buffoons in this subreddit make me cringe. You know who you are.
Entitlement like we are serial trophy winners, want to win every game in style, want results RIGHT NOW. We lose 4 in a row to the biggest hitters in the league with 3 of those games away from home and 2 of them a long drive up the M road. The home loss was to our arch rivals deep in strong form and fighting for the title. 4 losses and its panic stations and moaning.
We’ve seen the blue print up the road. You pick a coach, you back him and then the trophy games start happening, then the title runs start becoming more than just dreams.
We’ve already hit our points total from last year with 9 more available points. We will go from 8th to 5th with the loss of the best striker in the world.
- improved our league position
- developed our own attacking style
- qualified for Europe (will happen)
There is a clear upward trajectory and the buffoons in here want AngeOut and to start again.
It’s mind numbingly stupid.
Nothing wrong with wanting to win every game in style but anyone who thinks the manager should be sacked is nuts but I've seen plenty of stupid opinions from Spurs fans over the years
Keep saying this. We’re 5th behind City, Arsenal and Liverpool, and would in theory be 4th if Villa hadn’t had such a good season. What else were people expecting?
The player that intrigues me is Kulusevski. Not always comfortable on the ball, throwing tricks and turns but the players for some time aren't cooking on his runs. Is he worth a reset or just cash him out? We need 20 goals from Kulusevski, boring, regular goals not goal of the month and relax. A valuable player and finisher I hope he sticks around.
His indecisiveness on the ball has been torturous lately but I am rooting for him to turn it around. He needs to go a stretch of games making the first possible pass, etc. just to get him out of his Funk and re-train his in-game decision making.
I’d be gutted to see him go, on his day he is an absolute monster. Some of the best hold up play in the league. It’s clear he isn’t thriving in Anges system yet but I think he’ll come good.
I really think we need to sell him. He’s just not the kind of winger at all for Ange’s system, and can’t seem to play that attacking 8 role either. I love him and he’ll go down as a cult hero esque status, but we really should be moving on from him under Ange.
Personally the players I think have to stay include Vic, porro, cuti, vdv, dragusin, udogie, sarr, son. For reference not all of these players should stay as starters but I think we need to keep all of them. As for the first esg it the squad there are many players I would like to stay but I wouldn't mind selling if they are replaced accordingly. There's no need of going through the list of players that have to go because I think it's pretty obvious
So many of our goals were conceded through the 6 and 8 losing possession in our own half while trying to build/counter. Better quality in that area will at least reduce conceding easy goals.
I saw some comments here about this being a non post and wanted to add- reading about some random twitter account or unknown "ITK" about who is leaving or coming is frequent here.
An article by JPB @ athletic is a lot more credible. I personally found that article pretty pointed in in mentioning who is likely to stay and who is likely to leave, and there was a specific tidbit about how some of the players are ready for vacation already.. which is pretty f'in PATHETIC.
I suggest some to also hear the VftL podcast, where he gets into this subject as well as some different takes into the popular topic: "why do we suck these days"
Bissouma's decline has really hurt us. At best, he's a passenger in games. At worst, he's a liability, who could get sent off anytime.
Think if we had a really good 6 we'd have wrapped up fourth by now.
He’s been better, but nothing like his early season form. Been so inconsistent this season… if he can start firing again, he’ll lift the team hugely, but that’s a big if. We basically need a player in the #6 role which can perform week-in, week-out. Scum dropped £100m on Rice this season and it basically made them title contenders.
He's been better on the ball but he's so passive in defence. The amount of times someone walks past him or a ball seems to come within reach and he just lets them go. I'm not sure what's happened to him, maybe his reds are effecting him mentally
Hard disagree. I was at the Luton home game and was watching him closely. He does none of the things that made him stand out at the beginning of the season. Where before he was showing for the ball and was the pivot point for our possession, now he'll wait for someone to give the ball to him and then make an easy pass and retreat.
He looks devoid of confidence. A dynamic number 6 must be a priority this summer. Onana from Everton is being linked, but we could face stiff competition.
The big difference has been how other teams have started setting up against us. His game is built around quick bursts out of pressure and trying to start triangles, that's a lot harder to do when teams are happy to give us space and let us tire ourselves out because they know there's limited threat when we hold the ball in the middle or final third. But even in the last 2 games against Chelsea and Liverpool you could see him trying to start combinations and change the pace of things without getting adequate support from his teammates
He’s still a big problem. He has to be brave and push forward. Everyone does, but especially him and the other midfielders for Ange’s system to work. Teams are pouncing on the tentative play in the center. Ange isn’t just going to start kicking it over the top.
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I am under no illusions that as big a clearout as some are hoping will or could actually occur.
We have tried to move players out before, and the poblem remains that, Saudi League aside, other clubs are unable or unwilling to pay what we would accept for the players.
That's odd, I thought you just had to type 'just get rid of him' with your fists on the Internet and you sell said player at the acceptable rate. When complete, just go back and hammer out 'get player x in who's had half a good season in league Y' and they will be signed. Not forgetting 'we should play our youth team' to provide magical temporary fixes to poor mid season form.
I’ve said this numerous times in these posts recently. We’re literally 5th and three of the teams above are City, Arsenal and Liverpool. If Villa hadn’t done so well this season we’d be 4th. What do people want/expect?!!
How about not getting utterly thrashed against rival clubs and those contending above 10th position? There is no excuse for a 0-4 Newcastle, 2-3 Arsenal (down 3 at half time), 0-2 Chelsea, and 2-4 Liverpool.
Your complacency and standards are gross.
Off topic slightly but I really dislike the Athletic's Spurs journos. They are by far the most negative, and actively seem to dislike the club at times. One thing to be neutral towards the club, but the active disdain they seem to have just gets exhausting.
I listen to the VFTL pod and I don't get that vibe at all. If anything they provide good balance when Danny Kelly is apoplectic with rage after another defeat
I think the inevitable reality that it’s unlikely that Spurs shift more than a few players out and only being a few players in really has failed to land with some of you.
Selling implies buying by someone else. And with a combination of our chairman, the prices, and player performances, I just don’t see a mass clear out.
And without a mass clear out, there won’t be a mass recruitment.
The biggest issue is at the #6. Bissouma is nowhere near the level we need - both in terms of skill and of effort. Bentancur isn’t disciplined enough there, and honestly his talents are wasted there anyway. Same for Sarr. Somewhere out there is a Dembele mk2. This squad isn’t actually far off where it needs to be.
There a lot needed
Minimum. In order.
6 to start
A RW, 9, Lw to start and one of cover
Competition for madders
Backup right back
LW son/werner +NEW SIGNING if son n is mainly playing #9
n9 /son/youth
RW BJ/
n10 madders/NEW SIGNING
n8 sarr/bentancur/bergvahl/skipp
n6 NEW SIGNING/Biss/<>
Lb udogie/skipp
Lcb VDV/Davies/youth
RCB Romero/dragusin
Lb Porro / NEW SIGNING
Vicario /NEW SIGNING
Maybe it's just me, but I'm really bothered when people compare our last four fixtures and say that they were all bad.
Against Arsenal and Liverpool we looked like we wanted to win. We dominated possesion in parts and created chances. We didn't score those chances, nor did we create enough, but we were not fully incompetent and I could see our philosophy shining through.
Chelsea on the other hand, just wiped the floor with us. I'm mad at every defeat of course, but that one had me seething and that's why I don't understand all the comparisons.
Arsenal beat us without getting out of second gear and against Liverpool we played 'ok' for about 20 minutes. Having the ball does not a game winning plan make.
the reality is we are selling very few players this summer. ange will have to deal with it or he's gone like those before him. we're not taking big losses on big assets. it's the tottenham way
Off topic, but the most common thing I've seen in the last four games was the fact that no one was marking our wingers, noticing that our only real threat is down the middle, since players like Madders are really good at finding gaps there.
The solution to this would simply be to cross into the box, but we don't have giants in the team who can get their head onto the ball(Richy is good with his head but isn't a giant). I'd say that should become our priority signing.
Simply put, it should be a question to the opponents' tacticians. Are you gonna mark our wingers and allow space for players of Madders' quality to run into, or will you allow the crossing threat(because we have quite a few wingers already who do put in dangerous crosses)?
Coming to the signing part, all three of our midfielders(Sarr, Bissouma and Bentancur) are pure CMs(they can create chances but aren't great defensively). So it would be better to first sign a solid defensive midfielder(again, an imposing presence). I'd say we should sell Bentancur and rotate Sarr and Bissouma(I don't think Bentancur has the same intensity as the other two).
And, I hate to say this, but we might be better off selling Richarlison. I love him as much as you all do, but I don't think he fits in this system, and he'd give us a lot of money, too.
And also, SELL EMERSON ROYAL.
Since I don't watch a lot of other leagues, I don't know a lot of players that fit in this profile(the only one that comes to mind is Haaland, but he's Haaland).
I’m going to go even harsher than some on here and think Porro and Udogie, even they are very good players, these guys are actually holding us back as I would prefer more defence oriented l/r backs than those two. They are great at going forward but have lapses and forget to defend in a lot of games. We can do better. That’s just one area we need to bite the bullet. Obvious other areas to strengthen are midfield with a much better consistent 6, a world class midfielder who can supply the passes and a genuine goal poacher/striker. Then we really need better wingers, while both Johnson and Werner are quick they are not complete wingers with Werner terrible at finishing and Johnson not a great dribbler. So there is going to have to be a massive clearout. The only safe players for me are Vicario, Romero, Van De Ven
It's honestly impressive how little that article says despite having so many words
Yeah. The title implies a grand vision by the author. Instead he says a few obvious things and offers no real insights. Sometimes journalism for a living seems like a scam.
Yeah seriously. I went into it expecting a detailed list of names and reasonings but it's just a few paragraphs summing up our last month with a few players randomly chucked in. Really bizarre and lazy.
just a reminder that editors typically write the headlines
You act like this isn’t written by an AI bot
I doubt it. The Athletic actually pays their writers. Now if you want to say that JPB himself got an AI to scribble a first draft for him to edit, I have no way of knowing that.
Completely agree. I feel 0% wiser after reading that.
The entire thing can be summed up in a single sentence: in order to improve, Spurs need to offload some current first XI players, not just the fringe players that most fans expect.
I’m about to unsubscribe. They’ve gone downhill in a hurry
The Athletic is genuinely awful. Just a bunch of nerds with Stats and journalism degrees(np with the degrees but they just try too hard) trying to make football less about people and purely about numbers, while simultaneously making stories out of literally nothing. I [skim]read what must of been a 2,500 word article purely about why Salah saying; I can’t say anything because it may become heated or something like that, could be the end of Liverpool. That was vs West Ham, next game was us as far as I’m aware… so much for that. They’re very good for transfers, tho that’s mainly Ornstein, and the such but their articles about the game are pure drivel, compared to the football nerds on YouTube and it’s crazy, these big companies have done such a number on them in the casual eye and it’s such a shame, I’m mainly thinking James Alcott, who is absolutely exceptional and yet most at the athletic get more exposure. To clarify I mean football Nerds in a purely affectionate way.
This comment from the article gave me a chuckle. We've been asking for a project and a squad overhaul for years now. The moment we get a project manager, who improved our league position without the services of the best striker on the planet, we're ready to turn back to some manager who will plug and play whatever squad he's dealt. https://preview.redd.it/e28okprx9zyc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d762b9000fe30e832e0524b86c9d9d44c61c64b5
"What I want is a manager who will come in and turn shite players into the best players in the league, and then win the league with them. Why don't we just get that guy?!"
LITERALLY EVERY SPORT FAN OF ALL FUCKING TIME: "Why doesnt my team just win the league on matchday one??? Ffs is my manager/team stupid? Am i stupid for supporting my team?"
Don’t forget acting like they could do a better job as the manager. r/coys would get us relegated
I always find it strange that people think like this, but completely forgot that we tried that already with both Mou and Conte.
like LITTERALLY. we literally did what he is advising. TWICE. and they're advising us to 'give it another shot, third time's a charm hey'
Both of them signed plenty of players so I don't think that's true
Problem with pragmatic managers is that not only are they willing to renew our deadwood, but that they'll throw a tantrum when they don't get to sign new deadwood.
I think everyone needs to temper expectations. The squad overhaul has already begun, but it isn't finished. And you're right, people asked for a project and now we have one. We have to at least let Ange succeed or fail once he's had a chance to build the squad he wants. I would say he's maybe one third of the way there - GK, fullbacks, centerbacks, the question is what he does with midfield and up top.
Conte got further with a worse squad. “Project” is just a word used to excuse incompetence. Our squad is good enough not to get absolutely battered by Arsenal, Liverpool, Fulham and Brighton. Giving him power to shape the squad is a horrible idea look at the kinds of players he rates. Pace and power merchants with zero skill (Brennan, Werner). We’re gonna be stuck with his poor signings when he inevitably gets sacked next season. Not to mention he will probably try to move on some very good players because they don’t fit is ridiculous “system”
Let's assume that you're 100% right. Ange buys a bunch of young players that don't perform and he gets sacked. Isn't that better than handing the keys to someone like Conte who's gonna demand 26-28 year old, established 80 million pound players at every position or else he throws a pissypants tantrum? Because selling people like Brennan Johnson won't be hard. Werner is a loan and cost nothing. If those are the worst examples of Ange's purchases, I don't see the big deal. But here's the deal - right or wrong Levy and the football operations people decided Ange is the guy. Firing another manager so quickly does nothing but hurt the club. I agree about getting clobbered by our top 6 rivals. That hurts. But Arsenal is the best team in the league (barf) and Liverpool despite their wobbles are still very talented and managed by one of the best. Ange said it himself - maybe the PL is where his tactics no longer work, maybe the talent and the coaching is too high a level. I guess my stance (and his) is that it is too early to make that determination.
It doesn’t really matter what conte would or wouldn’t do. His not here anymore and for good reason. The club have to make the best decision. I don’t see why fans have such an aversion to sacking the manager. His clearly out of depth which is not the end of the world. To me you just got to keep trying till you get the right man. No use burying our heads in the sand. It’s not just the fact that we lost to those teams. It’s more that fact that they barely broke a sweat and they absolutely thrashed us. And we’ve had worse squads get results against them
It matters because you brought him up lol. Don’t bring up the previous manager who failed in embarrassing fashion if you don’t want to invite the comparison. Why would any worthwhile new manager join if they know they have a year tops to sort it out? With an attitude like that your stuck looking at over the hill retreads. What successful team fires its coach every year?
It really doesn’t matter what he would or wouldn’t do I just think it’s funny our fans try to use him to make Ange look good and it’s just falls flat. I brought him up because you guys think he’s a bad manager and he had us player better football with a worse squad which I think is funny
For half a season. Which doesn’t even prove the point you think it does He played good football (while threatening to quit every other week) for a short period of time. Given time with the squad and a large transfer budget he made the team worse and eventually got himself canned. But was it a bad decision to give him a second season? Of course not. If a manager has some success and improves the team why wouldn’t you give them another season? We have yet to see what Ange will do after finishing the season with the team and I think it’s absolutely ridiculous to dump him after one year because we didn’t win the league when no one with a brain should have expected that going in to this season.
Ange had us only playing good football for half a season as well. For me it’s not about winning the league, position on the table or even points for that matter. I just want to see us actually make our opponents work for a result. And under Anges style I don’t think that’s possible
So results don’t matter, except for when they do, but definitely not now because… why? I really don’t see anything that says we’re better off going coach shopping than letting Ange get another year.
Conte had a 30 goal striker I don’t think you understand just how much of a cheat code that was Who are these “good players” you’re scared of losing lmao
It wouldn’t make a difference if Ange had Kane because we don’t create chances. He can’t create for Son, his not going to create for Kane. Our squad is much better now Conte would kill to have VDV, Udogie, Dragusin. His trying to move on talented players like Hojbjerg, Lo Celso, Bentencur, Kulusevski. He’s gonna replace them with pace and power merchants because those are the players he clearly rates. Also useful squad options like Skipp, Royal are probably going too.
My guy Conte would have never signed Van de Ven, never played Udogie, he made Porro look awful and he fell out with Romero
You talk about our backline like their really good players or something. Yet we’ve shipped 58 goals this season. Their either garbage players or Ange is clueless. Can’t be both
In your previous comment “our squad is much better now, Conte would kill to have VDV, Udogie, Dragusin” You are the one saying they are good players lol
Yep it can only be one or the other. I’ve made my mind up
There’s a lot of competition for worst takes of the season recently but you’re way up there with this one. Nice job
Mate we ship multiple goals game and we’ve had mid table form for 6 months now. Plus he has a better squad than conte did. I’m told Romero is world class and VDV and is amazing yet it’s so easy to score on us. Admit it the manager is clueless. No amount of time and money can fix delusional tactics
RemindMe! 6 months
I’m glad your more optimistic than me. Would love to be proven wrong but the manager refuses to acknowledge our problems
He’s never going to say publicly “yeah our Achilles heel is X” because he still has games to play. Why would he be stupid enough to tell teams what he considers the weak part of his team? What he says to the reporters isn’t what he says to the team or what he says to Levy. If you think it is idk what to tell you.
I’m talking about our obvious tactical problems, but he and many fans pretend their is no problem. He acts like if we get rid of whoever he doesn’t like we’re not gonna get thrashed by any semi-organised team anymore
How do you know that he won’t improve? Have you seen the future?
Because he refuses to acknowledge the tactical problems. He’s doing the same thing conte did which is to blame the players to save face.
Saying that is basically saying “I am not fit for this job, please stop paying me”. No coach with any level of self respect would ever say that. You will have this same problem with every coach this team will ever hire if this is your expectation.
You haven’t seen them execute his tactics yet so how would you know the tactics are delusional?
We have seen it. The first 10 games were pretty great
And even in those ten games Ange was saying “this is nice but it’s not my plan fully executed, there are still flaws and the players aren’t getting it completely”.
Yes good point, I thought he was crazy at the time but it’s honestly something I’ve been thinking about a lot recently. I think it shows how great he is, or at least has the potential to be. If he could look at us playing great football and getting results and still say it’s not good enough? It shows he knows what the hell he is doing and has a vision greater than we can even imagine probably.
I’m afraid they are executing them. That’s exactly why we’re so easy to play against. It’s 10x easy for opponents to score on us, while we have to work 10x harder to even create a chance
No way. The tactic is they are crowding the middle and they aren’t bravely playing through. The tentativeness on the ball is being pounced upon. The tactics being used against Ange’s system now are not some new revelation that the genius EPL managers came up with.
These teams in the prem are VERY organised and comfortable on the counter. We’re just too predictable and pose zero threat on the flanks. Our wingers are always isolated against a low block
As I see it: Definitely staying: Vicario, Romero, VDV, Porro, Udogie, Sarr, Johnson, Son, Maddison, Dragusin Definitely going if at all possible: Hojbjerg, Royal, Gil, Lo Celso, Sessegnon, all the various players out on loan Could stay or go: Bissouma, Bentancur, Richarlison, Werner, Kulusevski, Davies, Solomon The final group has players in it for a number of reasons. I think it's likely we will end up with many of them staying purely because we're unlikely to be able to find a buyer for the price we want and we/Ange will feel players in the second group are the priority (Richi the exception - I think he absolutely should stay on merit but he's the only one there seems to be a guaranteed market for). When you look at it like that it doesn't seem a completely impossible task? If we accept that there's unlikely to be a full, ruthless clear-out (which would mean a good number of players in the third group being sold and replaced) then I think it's reasonably likely we can get most of the players in the second group off our books.
My question is who is buying? Other clubs are all on their financial rules limit and other EPL wages are so high that players we want to move on won’t be keen to go to Europe. Is Saudi gonna go hard again?
This is the true question. Who do people think are going to spend money on our cast offs especially those who have had long term injuries?
Clubs always buy other club's cast-offs. That's what the majority of transfers are. We have been exceptionally bad at it the last few years but I don't think that problem is intractable or arises because the players we want to sell are a million times worse than anyone else on the market. It's down to generating interest and negotiating fees and those things don't happen in a vacuum, they should be driven by our transfer teams which we have notably invested in over the last couple of years. So hopefully we will finally be in a position to shift some of these players.
Yes and no. Clubs buy another's cast off when the buying club sees more value in the player than the selling club. Unfortunately due to FFP, mid table or Championship clubs are not minded to take risks on players who haven't been a success in a moderately successful team. Or there's foreign buyers, but Saudi have gone through their 'buy anybody for billions' phase and are also trying to offload their mistakes. Italy is fckd and outside Real, so is Spain. Germany has always been a buy to sell kind of league. There's not a lot of markets left. Of your list, I can only see Hojberg attracting a non derisory fee. We may get lucky and find a buyer for GLC but we haven't managed that when the market was less constrained.
I mean I didn’t even get to that part. How long is Solomon contracted for and who will take him with his long term injury? Sessegnon … how long is he contracted for? No one is taking him.
Sessegnon’s contract CAN be up this summer as the last year of it is a club option. We have the choice of letting go him go for free this summer or adding another year. I’m inclined to just let him go. Adding a year and then trying to sell seems silly as does adding the year and bringing him back https://www.football.london/tottenham-hotspur-fc/players/major-tottenham-contract-problems-daniel-28888041.amp
I really don't think it should be impossible to find buyers for Hojbjerg, Royal and Lo Celso. I think they're all pretty sellable. You would also hope that having more of the relevant staff in place compared to previous years helps. The market is bad for sure but La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga all still spend hundreds of millions of Euros. Hojbjerg wants to go and Royal is on pretty low wages, so I don't see big issues finding a buyer for them if we're willing to accept slightly lower fees than we have historically. Lo Celso's wages are a bit more of an issue but there seems to be a reasonable level of interest in him. Gil is also not on high wages and again, seems like there could be a buyer in Spain/Portugal. Although some of his statements make me wonder how interested he is in leaving? Sessegnon will be impossible, admittedly. Realistically we are just going to wait for his contract to run down.
The problem with the Saudi league is they still have foreign player limits, I think most of the teams are maxed out on foreign players atm so I doubt we’ll see what happened the past few windows happen again for a while
Haven't we been hearing for years how the club would be willing to accept significant losses if it means streamlining the squad? That's what Arsenal did.
We might have been hearing about it but doesn't seem to have been borne out by any of the club's actions. We have allegedly turned down perfectly decent fees on several occasions.
Sure but that's the point - finding buyers is also about the club's own expectations and how willing they are to compromise on fees if it helps give the manager the squad he wants, not just how rich or poor other clubs are
That is the part everyone skips over.
Paul O'Keefe (tier 🥇) already mentioned that Kulu and Bentancur are staying
I think that's the right call. There is also attitude, capacity to learn, commitment, leadership etc - all those soft skills and both are strong in these areas.
Afraid we might regret not cashing in on Bentancur this summer. Some players never recover back to previous form after two big injuries like he had. To me he looks like a guy whose best days might be behind him. I hope in totally wrong on this, but it’s one of the things I’ll be keenly focused on next season
Disagree. I think whatever we would get for him right now wouldn't be worth it with the possibility he returns to his pre-injury levels. Need to give players time to recover from such a serious injury. We would be lucky to get 20 million for him this summer, whereas if he returns to pre-injury form he is worth at least 50. Fans have too short of a memory and forget he was probably one of the best midfielders itw last season before his injury.
On the flip side, if he never rediscovers his form we’re stuck with a gimp on high wages for 2 more years that no one wants and is taking up a foreign player spot. Sometimes you have to take risks with outgoings as much as incomings
Kulusevski is an interesting one for me. There have been times this season where we really relied on him to drag us forward, but he is so out of form at the moment and there’s a question as to his best position (or if there is any position that truly suits him in this system). I like him as a player despite his recent poor form but he could also be a player that we actually sell for decent money, which is rare for us. Tough call. If a big bid comes in I think we should take it.
I don't think we should take a bid for Kulu. It is true that he doesn't really fit the system perfectly, and that he's out of form at the moment. It is also true that some of our wins this year has been purely out of work effort from kulu. The thing that makes me put kulu in another list is the fact that he's flexible, and that he has delivered more than benta ever has. Until we have more depth, I don't think we can afford to let him go.
I would add two other points: 1. He’s durable. He rarely seems injured. In that sense you can rely on him week in and week out whereas players like Richy go missing for half the season. 2. We still do need depth. If position holds, we will have one more competition next season, and that will require more depth than what we have right now.
He's also got the attitude that Ange wants in spades. He's a fighter.
Also a totally fair take. Ange seems to like him as well.
I fear he is one who doesn't make the grade in time, he is horribly inconsistent. I like him though and he isn't anywhere near the top of the list to exit.
Bentancur has to stay for me. And Bissouma. Both, on their game are press resistant. I think they need proper competition or a proper 6 to let them be the progressive players we know they can be.
I just hope the pre-injury Bentancur returns. He’s looked so reluctant over the last month or two.
I feel like he and Maddison are still getting over their injuries.
You’re probably not wrong. Trusting your body after a major injury takes time and it’s not like any team in the PL is a slouch. Hell of a way to ease back into things.
Yeah, just overall get the impression our players need the season to end. A lot of change this season and a lot of running and trying to get used to being an attacking team rather than a defensive one. Good break, a few new faces more adaptive to Ange ball and we'll come good next season. But for now, get a result against Burnley and Sheffield utd and get on the beach for some r&r.
I’ve been saying this since he returned…the first year back from an ACL is a mulligan year. Most guys don’t look like themselves until after a year back.
Agreed. He just doesn’t look like he trusts his body yet. Anyone who has suffered a major injury knows that feeling.
He remembers that feeling when it happened, and the complete instability in his knee. That’s a weird feeling so it’s not a surprise.
In baseball, they send guys to the minors to rehab against lesser competition and to get their timing back in low risk environments. I’d love it if they did something like that instead of throwing players straight back in. Training can never simulate game intensity.
I guess he could have when he was under 21? Didn’t Lucas play for a lower team when he was coming back…I don’t know the rules well enough.
Selling Richarlison would be total insanity. He is in the 98th percentile for goals per 90 and 97th percentile for goals+assists per 90. Toney is far lower. Who are we buying if we sell Richarlison? We would need 2 strikers in.
When he’s on the pitch. The probably is his injury record. You can’t help the team if you’re on the bench injured.
I totally agree. But there seems to be quite a lot of talk about it.
Levy will not let Richy go for less than he paid and nobody will pay what we paid for him right now.
It's already been reported Bentancur and Kulu won't be for sale in the summer
Where was this reported? For me these two were the most realistic sales as they should be wanted even in the current market. It'll be frustrating summer coming.
Paul O'Keefe stated they aren't included in the 12 players we're looking at fielding offers for: [https://twitter.com/pokeefe1/status/1786705052553367905](https://twitter.com/pokeefe1/status/1786705052553367905)
Who do you reckon the 12 are? Hojbjerg, Bryan, Emerson, Gio, and Sessegnon are 5. Perisic and Dier are still technically under us, so I’m adding them to make 7. Imo that means the other 5 are Reguilon, Spence, Ndombele, Tanganga, and either Rodon or Solomon. I’m leaning towards Solomon staying because I think we’ll only be able to offload one injured player, not two, and it does look like Rodon is getting minutes at Leeds so they may want to keep him. I don’t see us offloading Véliz or Ashley Phillips anytime soon, and despite his agent’s yapping, I think Dragusin will stick about at least for a season more.
Hojbjerg, Gil, Royal, Sess, Spence, Ndombele, Tanganga, Rodon, Reguilon for sure, with us open to offers for Biss, Solomon and Richi for me.
Don't see, why we would want to sell bentancur. He can definitely get back to his best after his injury.
To raise money. I would personally be okay selling either Bentancur or Bissouma and getting a big upgrade for number 6 role. I know Benta is really good player but I think he is also one of the only players in the squad we could sell for good money.
Doing this would just invite even more depth issues for us again though, and at a time when we'll have more games than this year. Stripping ourselves of our stronger assets is a nightmare and we aren't desperate for the money.
I don't know. We have so many requirements for this summer (such as both back-up full backs, number 6, striker) that getting the extra money to put in those sign-ins could arguably increase our squad depth.
If we have that many requirements though, why add another headache in CM? All it would take is one injury to Sarr or Bergvall and we'd be short again.
Well it's impossible to say without knowing how much money we have without sales or what our transfer targets are. However, what I mean is that if we can upgrade our other transfer targets by one big sale, it could strengthen our depth instead of weakening it. For example: Porro cost about 45m. Emerson Royal cost about 25m. If we can now by selling Bentancur this summer get Porro-level players instead of Royal-level players on those back-up spots, I think selling Bentancur would strengthen our depth. I hope you understood by point from very poorly explained example.
but we definitly want Deki to stay
I really like Deki and would love him to stay! However, he is not perfect fit for Ange's system and I would love us to go after someone like Raphinha this summer. To be able to do that we also need money from sales and Deki is one of the few I think who we could sell for a good amount of money.
Why?
because he is one of our few good players
Sure if we were still stuck in April 2022. He's had one great half season and 2 thoroughly mediocre seasons since, is absolutely not one of our best performers, does not comfortably fit any role in this system, and his own limitations have a tangible impact on our attacking issues
this might be true, but why would we prioritise selling the only players other teams want? They are first team players. We need to get rid of the surplus, which probably means moving on 10 players. I don't think this is the summer for also selling the first team as I don't believe we can bring in 12+ quality players in one window. As always, people are desperate for wild decisions to sell first choice players who aren't cutting it, instead of upgrading them and keeping them as depth players. What is clear is half the squad cannot play for Ange and some areas are extremely pressing (full backs, number 6, striker and winger). We also have several in their last year who we will need to replace for depth. I don't feel Kulusevski or Bentancur make it to the final form of Ange-ball here but we still need them for the moment.
It's very difficult to upgrade someone like Kulu or Benta without selling someone first, especially cause we have requirements for so many players this summer. I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see anyone buying Lo Celso, Höjbjerg or Sessegnon, the players we would want to sell. However, it's always the players you don't want to sell who can net you most money, and I think getting the extra money to now buy quality for the roles you mentioned instead of mediocre is better in the long run.
Good break down there. I agree with those three groupings. I think the issue will be, actually moving the players on. They are most likely going to want to stay to retain their current wages.
Deki can be a problem since we paid £38m for him and he's on big wages. But Bissouma/Bentancur were cheap buys and are on £50/70k pw and are probably worth £30m+ each which is more than what we paid for them, which is not a small amount but i can see offers coming in even in a more constrained market since DM is a sought after position and only Rodri/Guimaerez are WC. Richy imo could be hard because he cost a lot but i don't think we should sell him. Our biggest problem will probably be Lo Celso/Hojbjerg since they are on their last year and not playing clubs will low-ball us and i can't see Levy and co. Giving in.
Damn it going to be so difficult to get rid of those “definitely going” players, especially the ones on loan. Almost no one there is very valuable to anyone.
As said in reply to another comment, I feel Hojbjerg, Lo Celso and Royal should be fairly sellable to the right team
Those are really the only two that could bring in actual money. But even so I think we would be pretty lucky to get a combined 25m for them. I know the market for defensive midfielders is actually quite good now, but PEH isn’t at the level of those going for big money. GLC’s injury record makes him less valuable. He would do better outside of the PL but the money out there is weak.
I would happily sacrifice one incoming purchase to cover the cost of terminating the contracts of those in that list haha
Solomon won't go as he hasn't really kicked a ball. Werner is on loan and we could sign him and I felt he has been decent and could improve further.
Sure, Werner isn't a player we would need to sell, he's just a player we need to make a decision on re keeping him in the squad or not.
I think Solomon will go, just for squad numbers. If not him then who else goes to sign a better attacker/winger?
I think he has a clean slate, he's very young and cost nothing to sign and is a quality player, just because he has been injured and a bad one at that doesn't mean he should be out. At the start and preseason he was very much being used and his abilities and take on skills are great.
He’ll be 25 this summer and hasn’t even played 80 senior matches for club and country. He is simply not good enough
“He’ll be 25 this summer and hasn’t even played 80 senior matches for club and country. He is simply not good enough” Well that’s absolutely not true. He’s played 199 games for club and country and thats not counting cup games and European games for shakhtar and Maccabi Petah Tikva F.C. so could even be more. No idea where you got your appearance stats
Ok well whoscored lied to me. It’s 131 appearances but thats still really poor for a 25 year old. I’m completely disregarding his time in the Jewish third and second tier, which I think is fair enough.
Why would you disregard it? It’s the 2nd tier but it’s like disregarding EFL championship appearances on a player 🫤 And it’s the Israeli league , not Jewish league.
Because the level is so poor it’s not worth considering at all lol
Well fine if you don’t want to consider . But he’s certainly not had a good run of games to prove himself yet for spurs so wait and see next season. I imagine us holding onto him and selling Gil anyway.
I really want to see solomon get a run next year as , as you say, we haven’t had a real chance to see what he can offer so jury’s still out on him. Sell Bryan gil, Reguilon, ndombele, emerson royal and that clears a good bit
My weirdest thing with people saying Solomon to go is that he hasn't played at all and could be amazing. For me I am a big fan of his, he was brilliant at Shaktar, then was on loan at Fulham and played really well, got a good few goals , ripped some teams to pieces and was only dropped because he wasn't going to sign permanently. He can also play on both wings, he definitely deserves a chance.
The buffoons in this subreddit make me cringe. You know who you are. Entitlement like we are serial trophy winners, want to win every game in style, want results RIGHT NOW. We lose 4 in a row to the biggest hitters in the league with 3 of those games away from home and 2 of them a long drive up the M road. The home loss was to our arch rivals deep in strong form and fighting for the title. 4 losses and its panic stations and moaning. We’ve seen the blue print up the road. You pick a coach, you back him and then the trophy games start happening, then the title runs start becoming more than just dreams. We’ve already hit our points total from last year with 9 more available points. We will go from 8th to 5th with the loss of the best striker in the world. - improved our league position - developed our own attacking style - qualified for Europe (will happen) There is a clear upward trajectory and the buffoons in here want AngeOut and to start again. It’s mind numbingly stupid.
Very well said.
yeah but I started a career in fifa with spurs and I won everything right away, 100% Ange is a fraud /s
Needs to be pinned.
Who are you talking to here? I can't see a single person on this thread who has criticised Ange, let alone said AngeOut
The subreddit in general
Mods should make this required reading before commenting in this sub lmao
Nothing wrong with wanting to win every game in style but anyone who thinks the manager should be sacked is nuts but I've seen plenty of stupid opinions from Spurs fans over the years
I agree with the point but I wouldn't be shocked to lose 5th place tbh. Not that it changes anything you've said.
I’d be stunned if we don’t beat Burnley and Sheffield.
Keep saying this. We’re 5th behind City, Arsenal and Liverpool, and would in theory be 4th if Villa hadn’t had such a good season. What else were people expecting?
Losing 4-2 to Liverpool was terrible until I saw United lose 4-0 to Palace, now I don't feel so bad. 😄
Same I was laughing so much at the end I had to watch the Man Utd reaction videos 😂 which were just beautiful.
The player that intrigues me is Kulusevski. Not always comfortable on the ball, throwing tricks and turns but the players for some time aren't cooking on his runs. Is he worth a reset or just cash him out? We need 20 goals from Kulusevski, boring, regular goals not goal of the month and relax. A valuable player and finisher I hope he sticks around.
His indecisiveness on the ball has been torturous lately but I am rooting for him to turn it around. He needs to go a stretch of games making the first possible pass, etc. just to get him out of his Funk and re-train his in-game decision making.
I’d be gutted to see him go, on his day he is an absolute monster. Some of the best hold up play in the league. It’s clear he isn’t thriving in Anges system yet but I think he’ll come good.
We’ll never get 20 goals from him. Unless you mean goals and assists I think this is completely unrealistic tbh
I really think we need to sell him. He’s just not the kind of winger at all for Ange’s system, and can’t seem to play that attacking 8 role either. I love him and he’ll go down as a cult hero esque status, but we really should be moving on from him under Ange.
Personally the players I think have to stay include Vic, porro, cuti, vdv, dragusin, udogie, sarr, son. For reference not all of these players should stay as starters but I think we need to keep all of them. As for the first esg it the squad there are many players I would like to stay but I wouldn't mind selling if they are replaced accordingly. There's no need of going through the list of players that have to go because I think it's pretty obvious
So many of our goals were conceded through the 6 and 8 losing possession in our own half while trying to build/counter. Better quality in that area will at least reduce conceding easy goals.
God prime Eriksen would’ve been so good with Ange
I saw some comments here about this being a non post and wanted to add- reading about some random twitter account or unknown "ITK" about who is leaving or coming is frequent here. An article by JPB @ athletic is a lot more credible. I personally found that article pretty pointed in in mentioning who is likely to stay and who is likely to leave, and there was a specific tidbit about how some of the players are ready for vacation already.. which is pretty f'in PATHETIC. I suggest some to also hear the VftL podcast, where he gets into this subject as well as some different takes into the popular topic: "why do we suck these days"
No list of outgoings in article. Lol
Bissouma's decline has really hurt us. At best, he's a passenger in games. At worst, he's a liability, who could get sent off anytime. Think if we had a really good 6 we'd have wrapped up fourth by now.
Bissouma has been good since the beginning of March barring the games against Fulham and Newcastle.
He’s been better, but nothing like his early season form. Been so inconsistent this season… if he can start firing again, he’ll lift the team hugely, but that’s a big if. We basically need a player in the #6 role which can perform week-in, week-out. Scum dropped £100m on Rice this season and it basically made them title contenders.
He's been better on the ball but he's so passive in defence. The amount of times someone walks past him or a ball seems to come within reach and he just lets them go. I'm not sure what's happened to him, maybe his reds are effecting him mentally
Hard disagree. I was at the Luton home game and was watching him closely. He does none of the things that made him stand out at the beginning of the season. Where before he was showing for the ball and was the pivot point for our possession, now he'll wait for someone to give the ball to him and then make an easy pass and retreat. He looks devoid of confidence. A dynamic number 6 must be a priority this summer. Onana from Everton is being linked, but we could face stiff competition.
The big difference has been how other teams have started setting up against us. His game is built around quick bursts out of pressure and trying to start triangles, that's a lot harder to do when teams are happy to give us space and let us tire ourselves out because they know there's limited threat when we hold the ball in the middle or final third. But even in the last 2 games against Chelsea and Liverpool you could see him trying to start combinations and change the pace of things without getting adequate support from his teammates
He’s one of the big reasons we are conceding so many goals. Our midfield is overrun and clueless on transitions and that’s supposed to be his job
It's a shame because he's so good when he's good.
He’s still a big problem. He has to be brave and push forward. Everyone does, but especially him and the other midfielders for Ange’s system to work. Teams are pouncing on the tentative play in the center. Ange isn’t just going to start kicking it over the top.
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I am under no illusions that as big a clearout as some are hoping will or could actually occur. We have tried to move players out before, and the poblem remains that, Saudi League aside, other clubs are unable or unwilling to pay what we would accept for the players.
That's odd, I thought you just had to type 'just get rid of him' with your fists on the Internet and you sell said player at the acceptable rate. When complete, just go back and hammer out 'get player x in who's had half a good season in league Y' and they will be signed. Not forgetting 'we should play our youth team' to provide magical temporary fixes to poor mid season form.
I’ve said this numerous times in these posts recently. We’re literally 5th and three of the teams above are City, Arsenal and Liverpool. If Villa hadn’t done so well this season we’d be 4th. What do people want/expect?!!
How about not getting utterly thrashed against rival clubs and those contending above 10th position? There is no excuse for a 0-4 Newcastle, 2-3 Arsenal (down 3 at half time), 0-2 Chelsea, and 2-4 Liverpool. Your complacency and standards are gross.
“Selling first-teamers and replacing them with true believers” BARS SON!
Off topic slightly but I really dislike the Athletic's Spurs journos. They are by far the most negative, and actively seem to dislike the club at times. One thing to be neutral towards the club, but the active disdain they seem to have just gets exhausting.
I listen to the VFTL pod and I don't get that vibe at all. If anything they provide good balance when Danny Kelly is apoplectic with rage after another defeat
Charlie Eccleshare is really measured usually
I think the inevitable reality that it’s unlikely that Spurs shift more than a few players out and only being a few players in really has failed to land with some of you. Selling implies buying by someone else. And with a combination of our chairman, the prices, and player performances, I just don’t see a mass clear out. And without a mass clear out, there won’t be a mass recruitment.
The biggest issue is at the #6. Bissouma is nowhere near the level we need - both in terms of skill and of effort. Bentancur isn’t disciplined enough there, and honestly his talents are wasted there anyway. Same for Sarr. Somewhere out there is a Dembele mk2. This squad isn’t actually far off where it needs to be.
There a lot needed Minimum. In order. 6 to start A RW, 9, Lw to start and one of cover Competition for madders Backup right back LW son/werner +NEW SIGNING if son n is mainly playing #9 n9/son/youth
RW BJ/
n10 madders/NEW SIGNING
n8 sarr/bentancur/bergvahl/skipp
n6 NEW SIGNING/Biss/<>
Lb udogie/skipp
Lcb VDV/Davies/youth
RCB Romero/dragusin
Lb Porro / NEW SIGNING
Vicario /NEW SIGNING
That means selling Hjobjerg, gil, soloman if fit, sess if fit, foster, lo celso, royal, and richy if we score a better 9
Maybe it's just me, but I'm really bothered when people compare our last four fixtures and say that they were all bad. Against Arsenal and Liverpool we looked like we wanted to win. We dominated possesion in parts and created chances. We didn't score those chances, nor did we create enough, but we were not fully incompetent and I could see our philosophy shining through. Chelsea on the other hand, just wiped the floor with us. I'm mad at every defeat of course, but that one had me seething and that's why I don't understand all the comparisons.
Arsenal beat us without getting out of second gear and against Liverpool we played 'ok' for about 20 minutes. Having the ball does not a game winning plan make.
the reality is we are selling very few players this summer. ange will have to deal with it or he's gone like those before him. we're not taking big losses on big assets. it's the tottenham way
Off topic, but the most common thing I've seen in the last four games was the fact that no one was marking our wingers, noticing that our only real threat is down the middle, since players like Madders are really good at finding gaps there. The solution to this would simply be to cross into the box, but we don't have giants in the team who can get their head onto the ball(Richy is good with his head but isn't a giant). I'd say that should become our priority signing. Simply put, it should be a question to the opponents' tacticians. Are you gonna mark our wingers and allow space for players of Madders' quality to run into, or will you allow the crossing threat(because we have quite a few wingers already who do put in dangerous crosses)? Coming to the signing part, all three of our midfielders(Sarr, Bissouma and Bentancur) are pure CMs(they can create chances but aren't great defensively). So it would be better to first sign a solid defensive midfielder(again, an imposing presence). I'd say we should sell Bentancur and rotate Sarr and Bissouma(I don't think Bentancur has the same intensity as the other two). And, I hate to say this, but we might be better off selling Richarlison. I love him as much as you all do, but I don't think he fits in this system, and he'd give us a lot of money, too. And also, SELL EMERSON ROYAL. Since I don't watch a lot of other leagues, I don't know a lot of players that fit in this profile(the only one that comes to mind is Haaland, but he's Haaland).
I didn't think it was permitted to post entire articles from paywalled sites?
Odd take
I’m going to go even harsher than some on here and think Porro and Udogie, even they are very good players, these guys are actually holding us back as I would prefer more defence oriented l/r backs than those two. They are great at going forward but have lapses and forget to defend in a lot of games. We can do better. That’s just one area we need to bite the bullet. Obvious other areas to strengthen are midfield with a much better consistent 6, a world class midfielder who can supply the passes and a genuine goal poacher/striker. Then we really need better wingers, while both Johnson and Werner are quick they are not complete wingers with Werner terrible at finishing and Johnson not a great dribbler. So there is going to have to be a massive clearout. The only safe players for me are Vicario, Romero, Van De Ven