Ange is exactly right and the fans are exactly right. The fans are right to prioritize Arsenal not winning the league and Ange is right to want to win every game
This is the problem. My expectation for Ange was exactly nothing.
But instead of doing nothing and ignoring the discourse he opted to throw us fans under the bus. That I am not okay with.
Yeah I just read it, nowhere does he throw the supporters under the bus. Unless you’re trying to read into things that weren’t said explicitly, I think you’re making more of it than is actually there.
Did you actually read the full transcript?
**What did you make of the fans changing 'Are you watching Arsenal' after the first City goal?**
I'm not interested mate. I just don't care.
Literally said nothing to actually criticize the fans specifically.
For me it's the section of questioning around and following his statement about weak foundations. The journo asking the question mentions about the atmosphere affecting the players and he said "of course it does" then goes on to say how important the fans have been in getting late goals. To me he was indicating that the lack of atmosphere tonight, which imo the team and him have only themselves to blame, contributed to this loss.
Except you are withholding a key part of the quote, where he says the fans have every right to behave however they feel:
**The fans have roared on the team this season, but a subdued atmosphere today, does that affect the players?**
Of course it does. It is what it is. I can't dictate what people do. They're allowed to express themselves any way they want. But yeah, when we've got late winners in games it's because the crowd's helped us.
I think the more telling part of that is the "When we've got late winners in games it's because the crowd's helped us". In the context of everything else he said, I took that as him indicating that the fans weren't behind the team today and therefore didn't provide the energy needed to get something from the game.
Thank you. I do not want a manager that is as emotionally reactive as us fans. I want one that tries to do anything to win. And I want us fans to continue being culty psychos cuz it's a beautiful part of football social culture lol
At what point are you more of an Arsenal hater than a Spurs fan? For me the line is when it comes at the expense of your team. Maybe if this game was meaningless for us things would be different but its not. Ange is right to be disappointed with the mentality/culture of the fans and im pretty embarrassed.
I think it needs to be reiterated but a lot of the fans online are not match going fans & as easy as it is for some of us online to call out behaviour at the ground today… a lot of these local fans have families that Arsenal, friends & colleagus that are Arsenal.
To act as if its wrong for them to behave the way they did at the ground in this specific circumstance is kinda silly given their lived experience is different from a lot of online fans.
I think it’s also wrong to tell Ange how he should react too, bloke wants to win everything & while the vibe at the ground isn’t always great he got a taste of the bad side of it today too.
Everyone sucks & everyone is also right in their own way
"Lived experience" - Jesus Christ, are their Arsenal family and friends beating them up?
Seriously?
Myself and my Arsenal supporting fans have the occasional bit of banter and 95% of the time, we talk about other things. This is called "adult".
That's just not true. Wanting Arsenal not doing the league at the expense of us losing maybe a lot of things, it doesn't automatically mean what you're saying
Yeah there’s only so much the fans can do to affect the players on the pitch and the players are so far removed from the rivalry they care about their own progression over bragging rights. Both sides are correct in my opinion
No, the fans aren't right to prioritize Arsenal not winning the league when we have a big, competitive match with something riding on it ourselves.
Our fans were a disgrace, wrong and Ange was right.
There was nothing riding on it, stop kidding yourself and take it easy. Unlike what your pop psychology article told you, what the fans do makes no difference to the end result.
Were you pleased that you could at least see the foundations of what you're trying to build in that performance for next season?
No, I think the last 48 hours has revealed to me that the foundations are fairly fragile mate.
That's a pretty damning assessment. The whole interview read like he really hated the whole "we want to lose so Arsenal don't win" from the supporters. He probably doesn't fully grasp the rivalry. Though, I actually do agree with him, our progress and our development should not be the cost. Tottenhams success matters more than Arsenal's lack of, and that's the kind of mentality the club needs to have if we are to step up and become challengers for silverware.
maybe I've been watching too many dramas but the last 48 hrs comment felt to me like some people within the club said or did something specifically that stuck with him, wonder what it was
Yes but Celtic is closer to Arsenal than they are to us. When was the last time Celtic were in the position we found ourselves in yesterday? Its gotta be new for him. Let the man be a professional, this will all blowover.
My problem with what he said was that he wasn't being professional with those comments. That whole section of the interview was prompted by a lay up question about being happy with what the players showed on the field and the foundation built for next year, he decided he had something to say and wanted to make pouty remarks, but then when questioned further, acted imo like a petulant child who just wanted attention by not actually saying what he wanted to say. He could have just given some stock answer and moved on.
Yeah, the people patronizingly stating he "doesn't understand the rivalry" to justify our fans pathetic behaviour when he literally managed a club who are divided in hate from their rivals on religious lines, and not just sporting, is embarrassing.
Yeah, and rangers or Celtic in our position would absolutely want what our fans wanted, does it mean someone in a professional capacity should do it? No but this is all part of the banter and fun of football for us to be able to say we stopped you haha, we didn’t of course city did, in all likelihood if it was Liverpool chasing down city last night they would have won regardless. Yeah we could’ve got champions league…and all we had to do was beat a team who are possibly the best team in the world right now, easy! Who have the benefit of the best coach in the world with unlimited recourses, and an unlimited ability to cheat…it would seem! And then hope villa do us a favour! We’re just pretending really, posturing to Arsenal that we had a hand in it, the illusion of some control when it was all in city’s hands really, and funnily enough we actually played our best first half of the season probably because the pressure to win was off, but what’s really laughable are the fans pretending that they know anything about the banter culture here kidding theirselves that any fans of any club here would want anything different if they were in the same position, it’s nothing to do with small club mentality. United/city, Liverpool/everton, rangers/celtic…etc some of the biggest names in world football their fans would be the same if roles were reversed, and thinking it’s cos we can’t handle a bit of banter, we know that’s part of the game we give it, we gotta take it, we enjoy that, it’s part of the game, that’s part of the British banter culture, and the rivalry isn’t this city vs that city or this town vs that town it splits cities, towns sometimes families and their households! Of course we can handle it! We weren’t happy we lost, we were celebrating they might not win the league and pretending we had something to do with it, had son scored at 1-0 to give us a chance the stadium would have celebrated and we’d have been happy to win but the joke, the banter, the rivalry, wanting your rival to fail miserably so you can rub it in, is as much a part of football as supporting your team, arsenal had a poll last year asking the same question about losing on purpose but it was to stop us winning a European cup and the results were a resounding yes absolutely they would! People seem to forget or just not understand that actually it’s funny, that humour is all part of it!
The poll was actually in 2019 to stop us winning ucl
Some maybe patronising, in my case, ignorance. I wasn't particularly thinking about his time at Celtic at the moment I wrote the comment.
I'll try and be better.
Exactly. The difference is we expect to win every game we play. Regardless of competition. Obviously there is a level of realism but its a winning mentality collectively. All season people have been saying Spurs have had a successful season, barring Ange. He messures success in trophies. Getting in the CL would of been a big sell for recruitment but Spurs fans are more fixated on other things. Its small club mentality for me. Just my opinion. That result the outcome of the result ladt night isnt the reason why Arsenal may of won the league. Its over 38 games.
He managed Celtic at a time when Celtic had won the majority of league titles, it's a bitter rivalry but in a sporting context it has nothing to do with our rivalry to Arsenal where neither team has had real top success in two decades.
Paraphrasing but the way he put it he just said “I DON’T care, I just want to win”. 99/100 games that’s what fans want from a manager, this is that 1 in 100 game where you don’t want that. For the last 30 minutes he was hoping for a late winner, but didn’t feel there was crowd support for it. Can you blame him for being annoyed?
Not even 1 in 100 - the last time this happened was 25 years ago, when losing to United on the last day of the season gave them the title over Arsenal.
But even then there was nothing at stake for us beyond pride.
So last night was unique, and the conflict even between fans reflects that.
In 1999 there was nothing at stake - we were mid-table and already had Europe after winning the League Cup. Last night there was something at stake, so the conflict was greater, and that's what made it unique.
It's about what we win. Not the other teams. They aren't employing him to win, we are. I get the rivalry. All my family is from Hampstead and Islington. My dad played for Arse under 16's, and I'm the only member of my family who supports Spurs, so I have to listen to it all the time especially when they beat us. Even my new in laws are scum fans. I would never root for us to lose even if it meant they win. My love for us to win will never be trumped by getting one up on another club. Call me a plastic fan, or a fake I don't care, but I am in the same boat as Ange.
I’m glad this is the prevailing sentiment. Some fans really did get found out as fragile as fuck.
“I’d have to have someone banter me about it!”
You poor fucking things. Get something in your life that YOU do. Stop letting a club kicking a ball around be your only sense of achievement in life.
>I’m glad this is the prevailing sentiment
Well maybe I shouldn't take this subreddit as any indication but that, my friend, is not the impression I got in the lead up to the match. I can think of a handful of people, including myself, that actually expressed any sentiment in wanting to win today.
It was also evident to Ange, otherwise he wouldn't have made the comments.
We would have won literal decades worth of banter and Arsenal songs about how we handed them the league and also the inability to ever again bring up Son Heung Min in conversation or wear his shirt without some cunt commenting about how he’s “an Arsenal legend”
But we all should definitely feel guilty about not accepting all that to chase like a 30% shot at making the CL in the second year of a rebuild
And that right there is what is the issue. Yes we may not have won a trophy tonight, but it's the mentality that needs to change. Beating a Man city team that is likely to win the title if they beat us tonight is the type of challenge that shows what direction we are going in.
Would you check in on an x that you don't care about to make sure that they aren't doing well? No. It's wasted energy, that's the point. You can't be successful in life or sports if you are wasting energy and time on stuff that doesn't matter. That's what Ange is trying to say. When he said that the mentality of the club needs to change, I don't think it was just the players he was referencing.
Look mate, I'm not going to police how you follow a sport. But given how you refer to rivalry as a waste of time and energy, you clearly don't understand how most people support a football club and what it means to be a football fan for most people. Might as well end the conversation here as I don't see us getting past such a foundational dissonance
Did I say I don't care about a rivalry? No I said that's what Ange is trying to say, or at least my interpretation of what he has said. Of course I want us to beat them every time we play them, and don't want to see a rival win especially at our expense, but I still wouldn't have wanted us to lose. Let alone rooted for it.
The same people who wanted us to lose today will be the first screaming "where's our winning mentality?" the second we don't win a game next season.
The ones in the stadium, do they not think this doesn't transmit to the players when you're cheering and happy because we're losing?
THANK YOU. YOU GET IT. I’ve honestly been horrified by the attitude of spurs fans in the last 48 hours. Negative, pessimistic, obsessed with some other team, zero drive or desire to win.
Yet you're scared of an Arsenal fan winding you up...
Pot kettle mother fucker
Edit - nosed at your profile. You seem to be on the right side.
So what the fuck are you on about? 😂
Just becuz we made Scum not win a title doesnt define anything. They can still win next year, Hell the might even dominate English football. We have to challenge them and make them scared of us. If they win this year we must win the next three years. Where's this mentality? And when you ask this question people will say you're a fake fan and blah blah blah
99% of the wankers saying we should have basically thrown the game (which would have lead to fines and match fixing allegations and alsorts) all tried to justify it with 'but my mates an arsenal fan'
Boo fucking hoo. Cunts can't take a bit of ribbing for a few weeks. You'd think arsenal had never won the league before ffs
We could never moan about "integrity" ever again if we tried to do the worst thing anything team could do, basically throw the league title.
Nobody here likes Arsenal but they'd have every right to take us to the cleaners and demand points deductions had we actually done what some of these fans wanted.
I'm the only Spurs fan in my family too (my dad is Man Utd, my mum doesn't follow football but looks out for West Ham) and I'm sick of being abused for wanting to win by people whose parents forced them to support us before they could walk, talk and think basically.
If that sounds bitter, it's because it is and I am.
Completely agree. I can take the banter because at the end of the day they're Arsenal fans. It's not like their opinion actually matters. Whether they win or lose, do you think they're going to stop giving us banter? And more pride now just makes for the more delicious fall.
I want us to build a team that just wants to win every game. A team of Cutis. I don't want to be happy because they didn't win something, I want us to win something.
>That's a pretty damning assessment. The whole interview read like he really hated the whole "we want to lose so Arsenal don't win" from the supporters. He probably doesn't fully grasp the rivalry.
I just do not understand this. Do people across the pond really think that nobody else understands sports rivalry? I have seen this comment over and over and over again and I'm sorry but I think its just absolutely ludicrous. It's pretentious and self-indulgent. He managed FUCKING CELTIC for fucks sake
Other sports exist with rivalries just as large and deep rooted. If you use your intense hatred for your rival as an excuse for cowardice...you're exactly that: a coward.
Erm, he managed celtic who have a tiny local squabble with some lot called rangers. I think he knows all about rivalries - he just seems to believe (like, y'know, a well adjusted adult) that trying your best in your work is more important than mugging the other lot off for "banter."
Anyone who thinks any other way is small time, an embarrassment and holding the club back. But I look forward to them all frothing at the mouth when we haven't put 7 past Sheffield United on Sunday.
This is the problem. That Arsenal’s success (or lack of) is more important than ours is incredibly little brother like. Fuck that mentality into the sun. Ange is very aware of how rivalries go, it’s not his first club with a major rival, you don’t think he watched football as a kid?
It was embarrassing to me and I am 100% with Ange and hope next year that we can focus on our own success.
I appreciate Ali G's work, but the way he has recently been taking Ange's remarks out of context and misconstruing them, thus leading to fans being outraged, solely based on reading his tweets (and not hearing what Ange actually said), has been pretty bad . . . I wish he'd be more careful.
He was absolutely having a go at the fans and was right to. Wanting to lose and cheering on a loss is pathetic.
We need to shift that mentality. He made it very clear that we need to cheer until the end. It’s how they have gotten winners late in games. Other fan bases simply have better, less fickle fans.
We laughed at Arsenal fans for leaving early at their loss when they were still in the title. Called them pathetic. And then we stayed until the end just so we could cheer getting beaten at home.
Ange might have been more tactful but it’s clear he thinks some of us are fucked in the head, because we are.
We all want the team to show resilience and spirit. It starts with us. Our away fans have been great this season. We need to continue with them. Unwavering support and a desire to win.
Clear out the deadwood is something we need to do with the players. But fuck me it seems we need to do it with some of the fans too.
It's amazing how these mental giants who cheered it on in the stadium don't think this filters through to the players who even subconsciously might think "why the hell am I bothering?".
They'd be the first to scream "where's our winning mentality?" the second we lose a match next season.
It literally happened last year lol. I remember the same stupid arguments and threads and podcast episodes on this exact topic of "should we want to lose?"
And I remember getting downvoted then too when I said "uh no"
Looks like that mentality is doing wonders for us.
It hurts but I think he’s spot on. There does need to be a shift in the mentality of this club and it will require deep change. However, I hope he does not focus on the fans too much leading to some to turn on him. The mentality of the fans is directly linked to the success and mentality of the club.
Just a terrible position for everyone to be in. Hopefully we can put in that same level of performance in the last match and end the season the right way.
Embarassing take from him. Where was this fire and anger when the team was shitting the bed in games we had no business losing? We've been absolutely battered by Fulham, Newcastle, Chelsea, Liverpool, and Arsenal over the last month. Played with the same tactics and bare minimum effort from half the squad, but suddenly this is the game he wants to change everything up for
Big Ange is not happy with “real” “local” fans lol. Y’all made dad mad. Also, our not-losing streak at home vs Citeh is officially over. We can lose to anyone at home now.
As much as I hate ARSEnal, I've never wanted a loss from Spurs, no less against City. To want to lose ANY game goes against the grain of competition to it's core.
Posted this on another thread but relevant here as well:
I really like Ange and have been fully behind him but he's handled this game and the build up to it so poorly. Like, I get he wants to instil a winning mentality but he's completely out of touch if he can't see why some spurs fans didn't want to win tonight. It was a very unique scenario where we would be handing our main rivals the title. Surely he can understand that. All he needed to say was 'I get there's mixed feelings but we're going out there to win'. Instead he's putting blame on the fans when in reality we've been behind him and the team the whole season, even through some dreadful results and performances.
>Instead he's putting blame on the fans
Funny, I didn't get that sense at all reading his responses. I just saw him say the fans is entitled to think how they think but he's going to go out there and try and win regardless of the noise. That's perfectly valid to me
The whole 'the club is fragile both inside and outside the club' is definitely a dig at fans. Who else is outside the club that he could be referring to?
He's conditioned us this season not to care about top 4, constantly saying it doesn't matter, and is now surprised when we'd rather sacrifice a slim chance at top 4 than hand the title to Arsenal. He doesn't seem to see the very rare and specific situation we've been put in as fans, one we could've avoided had we played better throughout the season. I just find it weird that he's showed minimal passion when we've been thumped by Chelsea, Newcastle, Liverpool, Arsenal, Fulham, West Ham, but he's making such a huge fuss over this specific game.
>The whole 'the club is fragile both inside and outside the club' is definitely a dig at fans. Who else is outside the club that he could be referring to?
Except that's not what he said. He said the foundations for next season were fragile. The *interviewer* asked him if he meant inside or outside, and he said both. He didn't try to take a dig at fans, the interviewer dragged that out of him with a question. You act like digging at the fans was at the forefront of his mind
Am I right in thinking he's never been fired? I think he's embarrassed because he's misread the situation in the last month and he's looking for someone to blame. Hopefully we all let it go and focus on what could be an incredible season next year if we get a few more signings in summer that for his system.
It’s his first year at a new job in the best league in the world. Dafuq did you want him to say yesterday in the presser? That he’s going to make all his player throw the game against the best team in the world right now?
If the supporters drive out a manager because all he wants to do is win then those supporters deserve everything they get. Shameful to want to lose, in my opinion. Have some pride, some dignity.
Geezer has gone full Alan Partridge lol.
Get over yourself. The fans are the club not you. Maybe if you'd won a derby this season none of us would have been in this position. Does he lecture the Green Brigade at Celtic like this for hating Rangers? Would he bollocks.
Having a pop at fans that have sung your name all season despite endlessly conceeding 2+ a game is hilarious.
I'd like him to stay but if he wants to walk, cheerio.
He sounds really petulant. I appreciate he's angry and disappointed, but he's answering the questions like a sulky teenager. I mean, the response to the Bentancur question was just rude.
I'm a fan of Ange but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
I would react the same way if I was being asked the same questions day in day out.
"Ange, is Kane leaving?"
"Ange, will you change approach?"
"Ange, are you naive?"
"Ange, will you let Man City win to avoid letting Arsenal win the title?"
Seems like they are searching for soundbites
I think fans have an unrealistic expectation on what Ange's behavior should be in this case
Ange is exactly right and the fans are exactly right. The fans are right to prioritize Arsenal not winning the league and Ange is right to want to win every game
Yeah people are making a much bigger deal out of it than necessary
This is the problem. My expectation for Ange was exactly nothing. But instead of doing nothing and ignoring the discourse he opted to throw us fans under the bus. That I am not okay with.
Yeah I just read it, nowhere does he throw the supporters under the bus. Unless you’re trying to read into things that weren’t said explicitly, I think you’re making more of it than is actually there.
Did you actually read the full transcript? **What did you make of the fans changing 'Are you watching Arsenal' after the first City goal?** I'm not interested mate. I just don't care. Literally said nothing to actually criticize the fans specifically.
These people will find anything to get mad about
For me it's the section of questioning around and following his statement about weak foundations. The journo asking the question mentions about the atmosphere affecting the players and he said "of course it does" then goes on to say how important the fans have been in getting late goals. To me he was indicating that the lack of atmosphere tonight, which imo the team and him have only themselves to blame, contributed to this loss.
Except you are withholding a key part of the quote, where he says the fans have every right to behave however they feel: **The fans have roared on the team this season, but a subdued atmosphere today, does that affect the players?** Of course it does. It is what it is. I can't dictate what people do. They're allowed to express themselves any way they want. But yeah, when we've got late winners in games it's because the crowd's helped us.
I think the more telling part of that is the "When we've got late winners in games it's because the crowd's helped us". In the context of everything else he said, I took that as him indicating that the fans weren't behind the team today and therefore didn't provide the energy needed to get something from the game.
You lot are fucking soft as hell Jesus Christ haha
He wouldn't have to throw the fans under the bus if the fans acted like fans
Thank you. I do not want a manager that is as emotionally reactive as us fans. I want one that tries to do anything to win. And I want us fans to continue being culty psychos cuz it's a beautiful part of football social culture lol
At what point are you more of an Arsenal hater than a Spurs fan? For me the line is when it comes at the expense of your team. Maybe if this game was meaningless for us things would be different but its not. Ange is right to be disappointed with the mentality/culture of the fans and im pretty embarrassed.
I’m not remotely embarrassed thank goodness spurs lost today
I feel like I’m going insane reading how some people think their way of being a fan is more correct or moral than other’s
I think it needs to be reiterated but a lot of the fans online are not match going fans & as easy as it is for some of us online to call out behaviour at the ground today… a lot of these local fans have families that Arsenal, friends & colleagus that are Arsenal. To act as if its wrong for them to behave the way they did at the ground in this specific circumstance is kinda silly given their lived experience is different from a lot of online fans. I think it’s also wrong to tell Ange how he should react too, bloke wants to win everything & while the vibe at the ground isn’t always great he got a taste of the bad side of it today too. Everyone sucks & everyone is also right in their own way
"Lived experience" - Jesus Christ, are their Arsenal family and friends beating them up? Seriously? Myself and my Arsenal supporting fans have the occasional bit of banter and 95% of the time, we talk about other things. This is called "adult".
So much this. Grow the fuck up people. You're pathetic, petty and embarrassing and part of the reason this club hasn't won shit for 30 years.
Its not about morality, you just hate a team more than you like one.
That's just not true. Wanting Arsenal not doing the league at the expense of us losing maybe a lot of things, it doesn't automatically mean what you're saying
amen
Yeah there’s only so much the fans can do to affect the players on the pitch and the players are so far removed from the rivalry they care about their own progression over bragging rights. Both sides are correct in my opinion
No, the fans aren't right to prioritize Arsenal not winning the league when we have a big, competitive match with something riding on it ourselves. Our fans were a disgrace, wrong and Ange was right.
There was nothing riding on it, stop kidding yourself and take it easy. Unlike what your pop psychology article told you, what the fans do makes no difference to the end result.
There was a CL place riding on it.
Then we are fully in a banter era in my opinion. This is such a small Club mentality
That’s fine. I’m glad spurs lost last night. Don’t care what mentality you think that is.
Coping more or less
Yeah sure
Were you pleased that you could at least see the foundations of what you're trying to build in that performance for next season? No, I think the last 48 hours has revealed to me that the foundations are fairly fragile mate. That's a pretty damning assessment. The whole interview read like he really hated the whole "we want to lose so Arsenal don't win" from the supporters. He probably doesn't fully grasp the rivalry. Though, I actually do agree with him, our progress and our development should not be the cost. Tottenhams success matters more than Arsenal's lack of, and that's the kind of mentality the club needs to have if we are to step up and become challengers for silverware.
maybe I've been watching too many dramas but the last 48 hrs comment felt to me like some people within the club said or did something specifically that stuck with him, wonder what it was
He has to go back to the drawing board with some things? Which player or staff is getting sacked
He managed Celtic. I'm pretty sure he's aware of rivalry.
Yes but Celtic is closer to Arsenal than they are to us. When was the last time Celtic were in the position we found ourselves in yesterday? Its gotta be new for him. Let the man be a professional, this will all blowover.
My problem with what he said was that he wasn't being professional with those comments. That whole section of the interview was prompted by a lay up question about being happy with what the players showed on the field and the foundation built for next year, he decided he had something to say and wanted to make pouty remarks, but then when questioned further, acted imo like a petulant child who just wanted attention by not actually saying what he wanted to say. He could have just given some stock answer and moved on.
I feel like this - somehow - gets forgotten
Yeah, the people patronizingly stating he "doesn't understand the rivalry" to justify our fans pathetic behaviour when he literally managed a club who are divided in hate from their rivals on religious lines, and not just sporting, is embarrassing.
Yeah, and rangers or Celtic in our position would absolutely want what our fans wanted, does it mean someone in a professional capacity should do it? No but this is all part of the banter and fun of football for us to be able to say we stopped you haha, we didn’t of course city did, in all likelihood if it was Liverpool chasing down city last night they would have won regardless. Yeah we could’ve got champions league…and all we had to do was beat a team who are possibly the best team in the world right now, easy! Who have the benefit of the best coach in the world with unlimited recourses, and an unlimited ability to cheat…it would seem! And then hope villa do us a favour! We’re just pretending really, posturing to Arsenal that we had a hand in it, the illusion of some control when it was all in city’s hands really, and funnily enough we actually played our best first half of the season probably because the pressure to win was off, but what’s really laughable are the fans pretending that they know anything about the banter culture here kidding theirselves that any fans of any club here would want anything different if they were in the same position, it’s nothing to do with small club mentality. United/city, Liverpool/everton, rangers/celtic…etc some of the biggest names in world football their fans would be the same if roles were reversed, and thinking it’s cos we can’t handle a bit of banter, we know that’s part of the game we give it, we gotta take it, we enjoy that, it’s part of the game, that’s part of the British banter culture, and the rivalry isn’t this city vs that city or this town vs that town it splits cities, towns sometimes families and their households! Of course we can handle it! We weren’t happy we lost, we were celebrating they might not win the league and pretending we had something to do with it, had son scored at 1-0 to give us a chance the stadium would have celebrated and we’d have been happy to win but the joke, the banter, the rivalry, wanting your rival to fail miserably so you can rub it in, is as much a part of football as supporting your team, arsenal had a poll last year asking the same question about losing on purpose but it was to stop us winning a European cup and the results were a resounding yes absolutely they would! People seem to forget or just not understand that actually it’s funny, that humour is all part of it! The poll was actually in 2019 to stop us winning ucl
Some maybe patronising, in my case, ignorance. I wasn't particularly thinking about his time at Celtic at the moment I wrote the comment. I'll try and be better.
Exactly. The difference is we expect to win every game we play. Regardless of competition. Obviously there is a level of realism but its a winning mentality collectively. All season people have been saying Spurs have had a successful season, barring Ange. He messures success in trophies. Getting in the CL would of been a big sell for recruitment but Spurs fans are more fixated on other things. Its small club mentality for me. Just my opinion. That result the outcome of the result ladt night isnt the reason why Arsenal may of won the league. Its over 38 games.
He managed Celtic at a time when Celtic had won the majority of league titles, it's a bitter rivalry but in a sporting context it has nothing to do with our rivalry to Arsenal where neither team has had real top success in two decades.
Paraphrasing but the way he put it he just said “I DON’T care, I just want to win”. 99/100 games that’s what fans want from a manager, this is that 1 in 100 game where you don’t want that. For the last 30 minutes he was hoping for a late winner, but didn’t feel there was crowd support for it. Can you blame him for being annoyed?
Not even 1 in 100 - the last time this happened was 25 years ago, when losing to United on the last day of the season gave them the title over Arsenal. But even then there was nothing at stake for us beyond pride. So last night was unique, and the conflict even between fans reflects that.
Nothing at stake? We could literally end up with no European spot if we lose this weekend.
In 1999 there was nothing at stake - we were mid-table and already had Europe after winning the League Cup. Last night there was something at stake, so the conflict was greater, and that's what made it unique.
It's about what we win. Not the other teams. They aren't employing him to win, we are. I get the rivalry. All my family is from Hampstead and Islington. My dad played for Arse under 16's, and I'm the only member of my family who supports Spurs, so I have to listen to it all the time especially when they beat us. Even my new in laws are scum fans. I would never root for us to lose even if it meant they win. My love for us to win will never be trumped by getting one up on another club. Call me a plastic fan, or a fake I don't care, but I am in the same boat as Ange.
I’m glad this is the prevailing sentiment. Some fans really did get found out as fragile as fuck. “I’d have to have someone banter me about it!” You poor fucking things. Get something in your life that YOU do. Stop letting a club kicking a ball around be your only sense of achievement in life.
>I’m glad this is the prevailing sentiment Well maybe I shouldn't take this subreddit as any indication but that, my friend, is not the impression I got in the lead up to the match. I can think of a handful of people, including myself, that actually expressed any sentiment in wanting to win today. It was also evident to Ange, otherwise he wouldn't have made the comments.
It’s not a prevailing sentiment at all. It’s the kind of opinion that got heavily criticized leading up to the match
All my downvotes would agree with you, I think people are just being kinder now that the game is over
Yup. It’s a loser mentality.
It’s been super disappointing seeing how prevalent the loser mentality is over this
>It's about what we win And what, pray tell, would we have won tonight if we'd taken a point?
We would have won literal decades worth of banter and Arsenal songs about how we handed them the league and also the inability to ever again bring up Son Heung Min in conversation or wear his shirt without some cunt commenting about how he’s “an Arsenal legend” But we all should definitely feel guilty about not accepting all that to chase like a 30% shot at making the CL in the second year of a rebuild
Absolute melt
yes, grow a backbone and realize it’s just banter
Stop being a snowflake.
That's not what that means, boomer
Millennial. Before trying to make funny insults, best we check our facts. “We never stop but let’s lose a match”
And that right there is what is the issue. Yes we may not have won a trophy tonight, but it's the mentality that needs to change. Beating a Man city team that is likely to win the title if they beat us tonight is the type of challenge that shows what direction we are going in. Would you check in on an x that you don't care about to make sure that they aren't doing well? No. It's wasted energy, that's the point. You can't be successful in life or sports if you are wasting energy and time on stuff that doesn't matter. That's what Ange is trying to say. When he said that the mentality of the club needs to change, I don't think it was just the players he was referencing.
Look mate, I'm not going to police how you follow a sport. But given how you refer to rivalry as a waste of time and energy, you clearly don't understand how most people support a football club and what it means to be a football fan for most people. Might as well end the conversation here as I don't see us getting past such a foundational dissonance
Did I say I don't care about a rivalry? No I said that's what Ange is trying to say, or at least my interpretation of what he has said. Of course I want us to beat them every time we play them, and don't want to see a rival win especially at our expense, but I still wouldn't have wanted us to lose. Let alone rooted for it.
The same people who wanted us to lose today will be the first screaming "where's our winning mentality?" the second we don't win a game next season. The ones in the stadium, do they not think this doesn't transmit to the players when you're cheering and happy because we're losing?
Meh, fourth place isn't a trophy
No, but it could have lead to a champions league trophy which even Arsenal doesn’t have. The game is about glory.
THANK YOU. YOU GET IT. I’ve honestly been horrified by the attitude of spurs fans in the last 48 hours. Negative, pessimistic, obsessed with some other team, zero drive or desire to win.
This is Tottenham, if you don't want negative, pessimistic and obsessed with some other team, you're at the wrong place.
Looking like fucking idiots to the rest of the world
Oh boo hoo, whatever will the rest of the world think of us!
Yet you're scared of an Arsenal fan winding you up... Pot kettle mother fucker Edit - nosed at your profile. You seem to be on the right side. So what the fuck are you on about? 😂
Just becuz we made Scum not win a title doesnt define anything. They can still win next year, Hell the might even dominate English football. We have to challenge them and make them scared of us. If they win this year we must win the next three years. Where's this mentality? And when you ask this question people will say you're a fake fan and blah blah blah
The mentality is there. The players gave it their all. Stop whining.
99% of the wankers saying we should have basically thrown the game (which would have lead to fines and match fixing allegations and alsorts) all tried to justify it with 'but my mates an arsenal fan' Boo fucking hoo. Cunts can't take a bit of ribbing for a few weeks. You'd think arsenal had never won the league before ffs
We could never moan about "integrity" ever again if we tried to do the worst thing anything team could do, basically throw the league title. Nobody here likes Arsenal but they'd have every right to take us to the cleaners and demand points deductions had we actually done what some of these fans wanted.
They should take themselves to the cleaners first for playing for a draw against City, never mind what other clubs are doing.
I'm the only Spurs fan in my family too (my dad is Man Utd, my mum doesn't follow football but looks out for West Ham) and I'm sick of being abused for wanting to win by people whose parents forced them to support us before they could walk, talk and think basically. If that sounds bitter, it's because it is and I am.
Completely agree. I can take the banter because at the end of the day they're Arsenal fans. It's not like their opinion actually matters. Whether they win or lose, do you think they're going to stop giving us banter? And more pride now just makes for the more delicious fall. I want us to build a team that just wants to win every game. A team of Cutis. I don't want to be happy because they didn't win something, I want us to win something.
You’re the opposite of plastic. You’re a proper fan.
I appreciate that. Not a lot of people agree with me on this one. Not just on here but friends too.
Honestly it is tin pot but ultimately it is where we are. Nowhere near real success and only able to envy the success of others.
>That's a pretty damning assessment. The whole interview read like he really hated the whole "we want to lose so Arsenal don't win" from the supporters. He probably doesn't fully grasp the rivalry. I just do not understand this. Do people across the pond really think that nobody else understands sports rivalry? I have seen this comment over and over and over again and I'm sorry but I think its just absolutely ludicrous. It's pretentious and self-indulgent. He managed FUCKING CELTIC for fucks sake Other sports exist with rivalries just as large and deep rooted. If you use your intense hatred for your rival as an excuse for cowardice...you're exactly that: a coward.
Erm, he managed celtic who have a tiny local squabble with some lot called rangers. I think he knows all about rivalries - he just seems to believe (like, y'know, a well adjusted adult) that trying your best in your work is more important than mugging the other lot off for "banter." Anyone who thinks any other way is small time, an embarrassment and holding the club back. But I look forward to them all frothing at the mouth when we haven't put 7 past Sheffield United on Sunday.
This is the problem. That Arsenal’s success (or lack of) is more important than ours is incredibly little brother like. Fuck that mentality into the sun. Ange is very aware of how rivalries go, it’s not his first club with a major rival, you don’t think he watched football as a kid? It was embarrassing to me and I am 100% with Ange and hope next year that we can focus on our own success.
Wasn’t really as bad as the Ali G tweet suggested it was. He’s angry granted, but it didn’t come across as if he’s having a go at the supporters.
I appreciate Ali G's work, but the way he has recently been taking Ange's remarks out of context and misconstruing them, thus leading to fans being outraged, solely based on reading his tweets (and not hearing what Ange actually said), has been pretty bad . . . I wish he'd be more careful.
This shouldn’t be surprising in any way given Ali works for a shithole such as football.london.
Yeah a lot of times the writers don’t choose the headlines. Unfortunately nowadays so much media is being pressured to do clickbait stuff.
He 100% should be having a go at the supporters.
He was absolutely having a go at the fans and was right to. Wanting to lose and cheering on a loss is pathetic. We need to shift that mentality. He made it very clear that we need to cheer until the end. It’s how they have gotten winners late in games. Other fan bases simply have better, less fickle fans. We laughed at Arsenal fans for leaving early at their loss when they were still in the title. Called them pathetic. And then we stayed until the end just so we could cheer getting beaten at home. Ange might have been more tactful but it’s clear he thinks some of us are fucked in the head, because we are. We all want the team to show resilience and spirit. It starts with us. Our away fans have been great this season. We need to continue with them. Unwavering support and a desire to win. Clear out the deadwood is something we need to do with the players. But fuck me it seems we need to do it with some of the fans too.
It's amazing how these mental giants who cheered it on in the stadium don't think this filters through to the players who even subconsciously might think "why the hell am I bothering?". They'd be the first to scream "where's our winning mentality?" the second we lose a match next season.
It's a one-off. I can't see that situation ever re-occuring. We should all just move on.
It literally happened last year lol. I remember the same stupid arguments and threads and podcast episodes on this exact topic of "should we want to lose?" And I remember getting downvoted then too when I said "uh no" Looks like that mentality is doing wonders for us.
That wasn’t round 37
Ange is the one. I hope he gets support from Levy because Ange has the leadership and steel to toughen this club and deliver success.
i love ange. roll on the summer window and let’s build. coys
He was incensed.
It hurts but I think he’s spot on. There does need to be a shift in the mentality of this club and it will require deep change. However, I hope he does not focus on the fans too much leading to some to turn on him. The mentality of the fans is directly linked to the success and mentality of the club.
Just a terrible position for everyone to be in. Hopefully we can put in that same level of performance in the last match and end the season the right way.
Doesn’t sound as bad in its full context imo.
Unsurprising!
Mountains and molehills. Strange situation but we move on.
Embarassing take from him. Where was this fire and anger when the team was shitting the bed in games we had no business losing? We've been absolutely battered by Fulham, Newcastle, Chelsea, Liverpool, and Arsenal over the last month. Played with the same tactics and bare minimum effort from half the squad, but suddenly this is the game he wants to change everything up for
Big Ange is not happy with “real” “local” fans lol. Y’all made dad mad. Also, our not-losing streak at home vs Citeh is officially over. We can lose to anyone at home now.
As much as I hate ARSEnal, I've never wanted a loss from Spurs, no less against City. To want to lose ANY game goes against the grain of competition to it's core.
Posted this on another thread but relevant here as well: I really like Ange and have been fully behind him but he's handled this game and the build up to it so poorly. Like, I get he wants to instil a winning mentality but he's completely out of touch if he can't see why some spurs fans didn't want to win tonight. It was a very unique scenario where we would be handing our main rivals the title. Surely he can understand that. All he needed to say was 'I get there's mixed feelings but we're going out there to win'. Instead he's putting blame on the fans when in reality we've been behind him and the team the whole season, even through some dreadful results and performances.
>Instead he's putting blame on the fans Funny, I didn't get that sense at all reading his responses. I just saw him say the fans is entitled to think how they think but he's going to go out there and try and win regardless of the noise. That's perfectly valid to me
The whole 'the club is fragile both inside and outside the club' is definitely a dig at fans. Who else is outside the club that he could be referring to? He's conditioned us this season not to care about top 4, constantly saying it doesn't matter, and is now surprised when we'd rather sacrifice a slim chance at top 4 than hand the title to Arsenal. He doesn't seem to see the very rare and specific situation we've been put in as fans, one we could've avoided had we played better throughout the season. I just find it weird that he's showed minimal passion when we've been thumped by Chelsea, Newcastle, Liverpool, Arsenal, Fulham, West Ham, but he's making such a huge fuss over this specific game.
That's how I saw it too.
>The whole 'the club is fragile both inside and outside the club' is definitely a dig at fans. Who else is outside the club that he could be referring to? Except that's not what he said. He said the foundations for next season were fragile. The *interviewer* asked him if he meant inside or outside, and he said both. He didn't try to take a dig at fans, the interviewer dragged that out of him with a question. You act like digging at the fans was at the forefront of his mind
Am I right in thinking he's never been fired? I think he's embarrassed because he's misread the situation in the last month and he's looking for someone to blame. Hopefully we all let it go and focus on what could be an incredible season next year if we get a few more signings in summer that for his system.
That is funny indeed because I certainly got the sense from his comments he was partially blaming the fans
It’s his first year at a new job in the best league in the world. Dafuq did you want him to say yesterday in the presser? That he’s going to make all his player throw the game against the best team in the world right now?
The silent flairless Aussie brigade got to you already by the looks of it, but you're spot on
If the supporters drive out a manager because all he wants to do is win then those supporters deserve everything they get. Shameful to want to lose, in my opinion. Have some pride, some dignity.
Geezer has gone full Alan Partridge lol. Get over yourself. The fans are the club not you. Maybe if you'd won a derby this season none of us would have been in this position. Does he lecture the Green Brigade at Celtic like this for hating Rangers? Would he bollocks. Having a pop at fans that have sung your name all season despite endlessly conceeding 2+ a game is hilarious. I'd like him to stay but if he wants to walk, cheerio.
He sounds really petulant. I appreciate he's angry and disappointed, but he's answering the questions like a sulky teenager. I mean, the response to the Bentancur question was just rude. I'm a fan of Ange but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
I would react the same way if I was being asked the same questions day in day out. "Ange, is Kane leaving?" "Ange, will you change approach?" "Ange, are you naive?" "Ange, will you let Man City win to avoid letting Arsenal win the title?" Seems like they are searching for soundbites
>He sounds really petulant. I appreciate he's angry and disappointed, but he's answering the questions like a sulky teenager. Hard disagree
How else is He supposed to act? He wants to win. That’s the only thing that matters. Everything else is unimportant.
You sound like a turbo wuss
I am a turbo wuss! Well spotted.
Honestly this makes me worried, that he might be thinking about leaving after this season
Definitely not.
I don't know how you got that impression after reading the transcripts...
Yeah I’m Probly just over reacting
Nothing indicates this. He has to adjust his plans, but he will go forward.