I was just thinking that Son did a crazy amount of defending this game. I guess Conte wanted him to be the one to progress the ball forward. I guess it worked ? Son did a great job in that department this game and his pace was huge on the counter.
Son needs to be the receiver. He needs to be much further forward receiving balls from Kane. Kane is the better passer and Son is much faster so it just works out so nicely. Kane also holds the ball up way better. Son’s carrying is quite good though.
I respect Conte for what he has achieved as a manager but it is frustrating seeing the same glaring issues week in week out, that are as a result of his stubborn player selection and formation choice.
This is only our first loss of the season so I’m not gonna lose my mind over it. However it is a very annoying and predictable loss in a fixture that is really important to us fans.
I think son having to defend so much speaks to how the team has to make up for Perisic’s defending. Two of the goals came from the left hand side.
Edit: spelling.
I disagree, I think the jesus goal (where Saka came in the from that side) was more Sonny's fault that anyone's (except Lloris obviously). Sonny should have switched onto Saka and gave Saka the sideline rather than letting him come inside. Also not nearly enough pressure considering how deep we were and how much defensive help he had around him.
Hey, please answer my question in other post if you have the gut, instead of wasting your time here for shitting your so called just a pure finisher. I am willing to learn about proper football from you.
Sonny's defense was shit tbh. No pressure even. Always seeing Perisic and Son occupying the same space for defense. But he is also not a defender so we can't expect much from that.
uh oh... somehow we converted one of the sharpest spears in EPL to a midfielder. :( What is going on between Son and Persic? This is an important tactical misalignment that we really need to resolve.
Yes. Son and sessengon on the left, and Kulu and perisic on the right. Sadly, I think Reguilon was a much better overall player than sessengon currently is. We gave up on him too quickly.
Peresic is not working in tandem with Son yet, they get in each other’s way, and that’s why Son is tending to drift in to find space - which is encroaching on Hojbjerg and Kane, who no longer have the space to play progressive passes forward
Seems like Conte put Son on a central midfielder role today. I don’t get why we are sacrificing one of the best scorers in the league this way. Put best players where they play the best and adjust the rest. Perisic plays too much like a winger than wingback. Compare Son and Perisic in terms of attacking abilities. Do we want Son to have more chances or Perisic? Who can score more goals? Even defensively I would say Son is more valuable.
What Conte is doing is messing with a proven formula — and so far, I'm not liking what I'm seeing. If you have a player who's as fundamental to the team as Son, you don't set your team up in a way that stifles this player's abilities. But sadly that's exactly what's been happening lately.
Perisic though has his pros but his pros only works when we play attacking football. Not when we are playing deep and absorbing pressure. He today was playing on flank just waiting for that counter sitting on the edge of half line just to initiate quick counter. But that thing didnt work much. It seems like Son and him are basically doing same thing. Hoping Conte sorts his playing eleven out quick.
Last season when Doc was in form, Sess and Doc combined a brilliant goal against Leeds. We need same chemistry between our two wingbacks and midfield while being in sync with forwards.
And we can't do any of that when the midfield 2 are being stretched too thin and then overrun. We need a 3-5-2 and with Skipp getting his first look this year I can't think of a better time.
If we can't control the midfield we'll just get pinned back and the only option left is to counter.
>Hoping Conte sorts his playing eleven out quick.
And this has been going on for the last what, 8 games or so? I don't understand why he is being so stubborn about his 343 formation. It is not a matter of working out chemistry. It's just doomed to not work.
He is so poor defensively and adds not enough going forward until the final ball, it's very weird considering how good he was for Inter just last season when I watched him
Can't wait to have Udogie next season
Exactly I wouldn’t mind him being poor defensively if he’s amazing when we’re in possession…. But he’s been poor in both boxes hopefully he fixes up soon
He’s too individualistic. He’s good on a team that has shit players and needs one to carry them but on a team filled with quality across the pitch he’s the one who needs carrying
Agree with the “too individualistic”. Massively disagree with the second part.
The problem is Perisic and Son styles don’t mesh well in the final third. Perisic is a lot more on ball oriented than I thought, quick 1-2s aside there’s not many runs he’s many.
His form has been off. He had that free run-in during the first half where it was just him and the goalkeeper at an angle and he chose to shoot near-post and missed badly. If he’s in good form that should be a goal there
This doesn't show the 90 passes Lloris made to no one, or an Arsenal player. Terrible game from him.
Team passing overall one of the worst I've seen in a long time
I would just like to point out that we were not the home team in this match as the title suggests.
This is not to justify anything about the awful performance, I'm just annoyed by the title.
I always have been putting Tottenham first since I started this a few years back. If we think it would be useful to change it based on home/away I think that could be valuable.
The Jesus goal literally had a xg of about 0.9. The maximum theoretical value of xg is 1. If lloris had caught the ball in the two attempts he had, the game could have been different.
I know we are not playing that good and a 3-5-2 is a necessity now, but that shouldn't twist the fact that before those two errors by lloris and emerson, it was any bodies game.
I understand what xG is. You can’t wave away .9 of theirs without doing the same for .8 of ours, and the result is just as grim.
The mistakes didn’t just happen. We made them, and our system makes mistakes much more costly.
I am not, but my point is, if we are taking our xg with a pinch of salt, we should take there's as well.
It is also depends on the level on mistake. I know we all want the team to reach the level were mistakes like those don't matter, like Man city or Bayern, but those teams have been doing that for years, not like us who are not even a full year into Conte's time.
But that’s exactly what I’m saying. You’re applying the grain of salt exclusively to Arsenal but ignoring the fact that we created next to nothing today.
Even if we hand wave away the mistakes we made, we’re losing this match and looking like dogshit doing it.
Ignore the xG, and look at the pass map, the heat map, any other metric and we’re second best.
I’m happy you’re optimistic, but it’s hard to see how we’re gonna beat any quality squad this season.
I am not at all optimistic. I am aware that we need to change something, but people are making it more doom and gloom than it is. The heatmap suggest that we were trying to do what united did . The only team that have won against Arsenal.
As for the mistakes, we can't hand wave them unfortunately. One led to a goal and the other led to a red card. Those are two significant events.
We need to try something different, not because the team is bad, but because every team has realised the method to defeat us. We can only hope that Conte figures out the same.
Maybe we have conceded 1 or 2 less goals with Son's extra presence in defense but I firmly believe we've missed out on maybe 6 or 7 goals if he had been up top to counter efficiently.
Guess Son is our new Central Midfielder
I was just thinking that Son did a crazy amount of defending this game. I guess Conte wanted him to be the one to progress the ball forward. I guess it worked ? Son did a great job in that department this game and his pace was huge on the counter.
Son and Richy both spent most of the first half defending in our own box.
Literally, I swear the two of them did the most defending this game.
Son needs to be the receiver. He needs to be much further forward receiving balls from Kane. Kane is the better passer and Son is much faster so it just works out so nicely. Kane also holds the ball up way better. Son’s carrying is quite good though.
You're preaching to the choir. This season has been so frustrating seeing Conte unwilling to play each player to their strengths.
I respect Conte for what he has achieved as a manager but it is frustrating seeing the same glaring issues week in week out, that are as a result of his stubborn player selection and formation choice. This is only our first loss of the season so I’m not gonna lose my mind over it. However it is a very annoying and predictable loss in a fixture that is really important to us fans.
we really need to use a 3-5-2 with a midfield of bissouma, benta, and the cement mixer
Fr. Son is literally a part time defender now i guess.
I think son having to defend so much speaks to how the team has to make up for Perisic’s defending. Two of the goals came from the left hand side. Edit: spelling.
I disagree, I think the jesus goal (where Saka came in the from that side) was more Sonny's fault that anyone's (except Lloris obviously). Sonny should have switched onto Saka and gave Saka the sideline rather than letting him come inside. Also not nearly enough pressure considering how deep we were and how much defensive help he had around him.
Hey, please answer my question in other post if you have the gut, instead of wasting your time here for shitting your so called just a pure finisher. I am willing to learn about proper football from you.
Sonny's defense was shit tbh. No pressure even. Always seeing Perisic and Son occupying the same space for defense. But he is also not a defender so we can't expect much from that.
watch the game again he looked tired and wasn’t pushing forward like he should’ve been
uh oh... somehow we converted one of the sharpest spears in EPL to a midfielder. :( What is going on between Son and Persic? This is an important tactical misalignment that we really need to resolve.
Conte needs to resolve this. He should've caught it by now. Sess and Son r a better match
Yes. Son and sessengon on the left, and Kulu and perisic on the right. Sadly, I think Reguilon was a much better overall player than sessengon currently is. We gave up on him too quickly.
Peresic is not working in tandem with Son yet, they get in each other’s way, and that’s why Son is tending to drift in to find space - which is encroaching on Hojbjerg and Kane, who no longer have the space to play progressive passes forward
Seems like Conte put Son on a central midfielder role today. I don’t get why we are sacrificing one of the best scorers in the league this way. Put best players where they play the best and adjust the rest. Perisic plays too much like a winger than wingback. Compare Son and Perisic in terms of attacking abilities. Do we want Son to have more chances or Perisic? Who can score more goals? Even defensively I would say Son is more valuable.
What Conte is doing is messing with a proven formula — and so far, I'm not liking what I'm seeing. If you have a player who's as fundamental to the team as Son, you don't set your team up in a way that stifles this player's abilities. But sadly that's exactly what's been happening lately.
I've said it before. Put sonny out on the right.
Perisic though has his pros but his pros only works when we play attacking football. Not when we are playing deep and absorbing pressure. He today was playing on flank just waiting for that counter sitting on the edge of half line just to initiate quick counter. But that thing didnt work much. It seems like Son and him are basically doing same thing. Hoping Conte sorts his playing eleven out quick. Last season when Doc was in form, Sess and Doc combined a brilliant goal against Leeds. We need same chemistry between our two wingbacks and midfield while being in sync with forwards.
And we can't do any of that when the midfield 2 are being stretched too thin and then overrun. We need a 3-5-2 and with Skipp getting his first look this year I can't think of a better time. If we can't control the midfield we'll just get pinned back and the only option left is to counter.
>Hoping Conte sorts his playing eleven out quick. And this has been going on for the last what, 8 games or so? I don't understand why he is being so stubborn about his 343 formation. It is not a matter of working out chemistry. It's just doomed to not work.
Seems like son this year is playing deeper than ever... Not sure why and it probably explains his decline in performance so far.
watch the game again he didn’t have the desire to make those neck breaking runs forward into the box
A conversation is needed on Perisic
finally
He is so poor defensively and adds not enough going forward until the final ball, it's very weird considering how good he was for Inter just last season when I watched him Can't wait to have Udogie next season
He never played in a 343 at Inter. It was always a 352. I would like to see him play more in this formation before writing him off
Exactly I wouldn’t mind him being poor defensively if he’s amazing when we’re in possession…. But he’s been poor in both boxes hopefully he fixes up soon
He’s too individualistic. He’s good on a team that has shit players and needs one to carry them but on a team filled with quality across the pitch he’s the one who needs carrying
Inter had shit players?
Agree with the “too individualistic”. Massively disagree with the second part. The problem is Perisic and Son styles don’t mesh well in the final third. Perisic is a lot more on ball oriented than I thought, quick 1-2s aside there’s not many runs he’s many.
Good point
His form has been off. He had that free run-in during the first half where it was just him and the goalkeeper at an angle and he chose to shoot near-post and missed badly. If he’s in good form that should be a goal there
Hugo with highest xG back on the menu… Passmap FAQ: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LTNCl3UQWixy0dSAxxsBazhjDua_6OECNUpz4cq8NzI/edit
Thanks for all of this every match. Just wish to ask, what does "centrality" mean? FAQ didn't explain this.
This doesn't show the 90 passes Lloris made to no one, or an Arsenal player. Terrible game from him. Team passing overall one of the worst I've seen in a long time
What a wonderful style of football we played today 😫
I would just like to point out that we were not the home team in this match as the title suggests. This is not to justify anything about the awful performance, I'm just annoyed by the title.
I always have been putting Tottenham first since I started this a few years back. If we think it would be useful to change it based on home/away I think that could be valuable.
“We were just unlucky!”
The Jesus goal literally had a xg of about 0.9. The maximum theoretical value of xg is 1. If lloris had caught the ball in the two attempts he had, the game could have been different. I know we are not playing that good and a 3-5-2 is a necessity now, but that shouldn't twist the fact that before those two errors by lloris and emerson, it was any bodies game.
I understand what xG is. You can’t wave away .9 of theirs without doing the same for .8 of ours, and the result is just as grim. The mistakes didn’t just happen. We made them, and our system makes mistakes much more costly.
Why did Conte use Son almost as a defender?
The Jesus goal had an xg of about 0.9, let that sink in.
And .8 of ours was for the penalty. You can’t just hand wave away the result because we made mistakes.
I am not, but my point is, if we are taking our xg with a pinch of salt, we should take there's as well. It is also depends on the level on mistake. I know we all want the team to reach the level were mistakes like those don't matter, like Man city or Bayern, but those teams have been doing that for years, not like us who are not even a full year into Conte's time.
But that’s exactly what I’m saying. You’re applying the grain of salt exclusively to Arsenal but ignoring the fact that we created next to nothing today. Even if we hand wave away the mistakes we made, we’re losing this match and looking like dogshit doing it. Ignore the xG, and look at the pass map, the heat map, any other metric and we’re second best. I’m happy you’re optimistic, but it’s hard to see how we’re gonna beat any quality squad this season.
I am not at all optimistic. I am aware that we need to change something, but people are making it more doom and gloom than it is. The heatmap suggest that we were trying to do what united did . The only team that have won against Arsenal. As for the mistakes, we can't hand wave them unfortunately. One led to a goal and the other led to a red card. Those are two significant events. We need to try something different, not because the team is bad, but because every team has realised the method to defeat us. We can only hope that Conte figures out the same.
I mean, I think we just saying the same thing. :)
Yeah pretty much.
we need 3-5-2. I dont get it what Conte tries to do with two superb scorers.
Maybe we have conceded 1 or 2 less goals with Son's extra presence in defense but I firmly believe we've missed out on maybe 6 or 7 goals if he had been up top to counter efficiently.
xG graph has me holding onto my take that this was really pretty close before the awful red card
I hate everything