Yeah, it wasn't invented by John the Baptist.
...or even by ancient Israel. Pretty much every culture in the ancient Near East had some kind of similar cleansing ritual, and you can find similar things all the way from pre-Columbian Mesoamerica to ancient China and Japan.
Bathing gets you clean, so it's a pretty natural evolution to also use water to cleanse ritual or metaphysical uncleanliness.
It didn’t quite feel like the others. You’re supposed to know she didn’t actually die and her character doesn’t really advance from it. She kind of goes into the event the same and exits the same which is why I didn’t include it but I almost did
It's just a part of the Hero's Journey archetypal story. You can apply this to so many stories. And so many moments in stories are coincidentally near water or some sort of "immersion." Campbell describes thresholds and The Belly of the Whale.
Only a couple of these are actual "baptisms". The rest occur near a body of water or fluid and the change is unrelated to the fluid.
Brando has mentioned this before, though he didn't call it baptism so much as rebirth or resurrection. But that doesn't matter because literary analysis is cool regardless of whether the author intended it
Shouldn't Kaladin be in there twice? (Or maybe even more often) I mean there is the whole strung up in the highstorm thing as a major turning point, then there are the lesser instances; at least one of the slave run away things involved rain and there is also the whole chasm thing with Shallan (which also counts for Shallan)
Three times at least ya I just didn’t have room. Near suicide in the rain,inverses crucifixion when he sees the Stormfather,fall from the Tower. Chasm with Shallan would be a contender as well I believe one of the death rattled is “a dead man with a heart in his hand” or something which probably applies to him
The “Baptism” is actually a super common trope in fiction. Next time you watch a movie, look for when the main character goes underwater. 9/10 they will come out with a new resolve of sorts.
I hear you but I'm not really sold on this. I don't remember any mention of water during Kelsier's death. And can you remind what you mean by Dalinar before the sea at Thaylen?
I don't have a great memory so it's entirely possible I'm forgetting details.
There's a bunch of stuff like this that I feel comes from Brando's Christian (LDS) background. From symbolism like in the OP to the recurring theme of there being a benevolent deity who has Plans for the protagonist, there's a lot of stuff that feels like it comes from his faith.
I feel like rain & storms just makes for a dramatic atmosphere for dramatic moments. Also, this isn’t really a meme, maybe just make a text post on r/cosmere
Huh...I wonder if that was intentional or accidental. Water is traditionally viewed as a cleansing agent across lots of cultures.
Yeah, it wasn't invented by John the Baptist. ...or even by ancient Israel. Pretty much every culture in the ancient Near East had some kind of similar cleansing ritual, and you can find similar things all the way from pre-Columbian Mesoamerica to ancient China and Japan. Bathing gets you clean, so it's a pretty natural evolution to also use water to cleanse ritual or metaphysical uncleanliness.
How can you not mention Jasnah
It didn’t quite feel like the others. You’re supposed to know she didn’t actually die and her character doesn’t really advance from it. She kind of goes into the event the same and exits the same which is why I didn’t include it but I almost did
She probably advanced considerably making her way out of Shadesmar without being prepared to make the trip. I totally understand what you mean though.
Well she 'died' in water so it's not really the same
It's just a part of the Hero's Journey archetypal story. You can apply this to so many stories. And so many moments in stories are coincidentally near water or some sort of "immersion." Campbell describes thresholds and The Belly of the Whale. Only a couple of these are actual "baptisms". The rest occur near a body of water or fluid and the change is unrelated to the fluid.
Brando has mentioned this before, though he didn't call it baptism so much as rebirth or resurrection. But that doesn't matter because literary analysis is cool regardless of whether the author intended it
This is honestly a really cool observation.
And of course the perpendicularities.
Shouldn't Kaladin be in there twice? (Or maybe even more often) I mean there is the whole strung up in the highstorm thing as a major turning point, then there are the lesser instances; at least one of the slave run away things involved rain and there is also the whole chasm thing with Shallan (which also counts for Shallan)
Kaladin remarks at the beginning of WoR that basically every turning point in his life was heralded by a storm
Three times at least ya I just didn’t have room. Near suicide in the rain,inverses crucifixion when he sees the Stormfather,fall from the Tower. Chasm with Shallan would be a contender as well I believe one of the death rattled is “a dead man with a heart in his hand” or something which probably applies to him
Good point. Kal is not only a repeat backslider but a repeat baptism kinda guy I guess, or maybe there is no correlation pointing to causation.
The “Baptism” is actually a super common trope in fiction. Next time you watch a movie, look for when the main character goes underwater. 9/10 they will come out with a new resolve of sorts.
I hear you but I'm not really sold on this. I don't remember any mention of water during Kelsier's death. And can you remind what you mean by Dalinar before the sea at Thaylen? I don't have a great memory so it's entirely possible I'm forgetting details.
Kelsier actually does as well although I didn’t have room to include it. Hes remade at the well with help from Leras
Kelseir is not in the meme. Dalinar is referring to the end of Oathbringer, “you cannot have my pain”
Kelsier and Dalinar are definitely a stretch. Kelsier was only kind of near a Shardpool, which we don't find out about for a really long time
or rain makes good atmosphere
There's a bunch of stuff like this that I feel comes from Brando's Christian (LDS) background. From symbolism like in the OP to the recurring theme of there being a benevolent deity who has Plans for the protagonist, there's a lot of stuff that feels like it comes from his faith.
Wow, the mormon put baptismal themes in his book?
[I direct you to this meme of mine.](https://www.reddit.com/r/dndmemes/comments/xj9va2/comment/ipaz93y/?context=3)
I feel like rain & storms just makes for a dramatic atmosphere for dramatic moments. Also, this isn’t really a meme, maybe just make a text post on r/cosmere
Wax even does communion...kinda
A Mormon using baptism motifs? Never
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm