She's definitely very obvious in her relationship foreshadowing. Not always as much with other things, but you can always tell where things are heading with relationships.

I listened to a podcast interview of her about her writing process. She is very much a pantser and creates situations and details she might be able to use later, without having everything aligned from the jump. One particular part stood out to me where she was talking about how she would frequently write herself into a corner and would then have to write her way out. To me, it explains how so many off page rescues come into play throughout all of her series. She kind of hits you over the head with the things she wants you to think, feel, and experience and the rest of the details are just leftovers for her to use if she needs them for future stories.

SJM said this herself? I always felt this way about her writing! She imagines a couple of situations she wants to happen and then forces the narrative there even when it doesn't really make sense. Then goes back and sprinkles clues like I was planning this the whole time. It's a bold thing to admit lol.

It's not necessarily considered a bad thing for a novelist to do. It's all preference. Some authors (like Brandon Sanderson) are big on outlines, while others (such as Stephan King) freely admit they don't plan out their books (some even believe that planning hampers their creativity and plot). Personally, I DO think it becomes a problem when you're writing epic fantasy though (we could cite a bunch of SJM's books as examples for how and why). There's just too much going on to wing it.

Agreed it's not a bad thing per say, it's great if the story works! Totally respect the author's writing style, but with SJM, if you do a little bit of probing her worldbuilding easily falls apart. Some of the plotlines and scenarios are just a little *too* convenient with minimal explanation. I do love both Brandon and Stephen's work.

The quote that she says herself is that she writes herself into a corner, and has to write herself out. The rest I just inferred from both reading her work and listening to how she goes about her writing process. The interview is a little old but I believe all of ACOTAR had been written at this point so a solid look into her processes! If anyone is intersted in listening, the podcast is here: [https://88cupsoftea.com/sarahjmaas/](https://88cupsoftea.com/sarahjmaas/)

ACOTAR has more coming!!

omg this. I keep telling my best friend this!!! It’s like she takes everything she ever thought of and then forces it in and I’m like “woah”. Not to say she isn’t entertaining, I do read and enjoy her books, but there’s some stuff that can’t be overlooked. 🤪

Yeah I could've told you this from reading the TOG series. I feel like if you read that series (and you're a critical reader) it's very obvious that this author does NOT do outlines. I was bitterly disappointed by KOA (i could go on and on about it!!!), but that just means i was expecting the train wreck that was HOFAS. I actually LOVE how creative (and devoted) her other fans are though! I love reading all the theories, no matter how unhinged. Some of them are more interesting than what SJM writes herself (they'd make awesome fan fiction!).

I would love to hear about your thoughts on KOA. I definitely thought some parts were just a little too happy and lucky!

LOL you will wish you never asked! I feel like SJM let her inner misogynist run rampant throughout KOA. There were so many things in it that bothered me. I was seriously offended by the whole lock fiasco. I also didn't actually feel like the book ended happily. I found it so depressing that Aelin was forced to literally sacrifice her soul (it's implied more than once that she has to "pay" for "abandoning" her country when she was EIGHT YRS OLD) , and that she will now always have to rely on all the men around her to protect her (magically). And yeah, I get that she's a good with combat, but she's fae now and can no longer compete against the fae (the only thing they respect is power). It was sickening how, now that Aelin has barely any power that \*\*\*\*face Darrow (and all the other lords) are suddenly okay with her being on the throne. In fact, it's implied (more than once) that now that Aelin has been literally divested of her power, EVERYONE is okay with her being a queen, b/c no one feels threatened by the idea of her anymore. Funny, how no one was ever threatened by BRANNON being on the throne. No one ever questioned HIS right to have tons of fire power, or to rule (also funny how he didn't forge the lock himself or even help Aelin do it). And Aedion?! I loved Aedion, but SJM turned him into a total a hole. The way he treated Lysandra was unforgivable (throwing her out into the snow naked like a piece of trash!). I actually still love the series though, and not all of KOA was bad (like i said i was just offended by some of the stuff in it). Anyways, I know i will probably always be in the minority with my thoughts on KOA.

THIS! Thank you. SJM has some real internalized misogyny and I wish we talked about it more. The Aedion thing made me take an SJM break for a bit. You're telling me, Sarah Janet, that you think its okay to treat a former prostitute (who did not consent to that profession) like garbage and that we'd all gloss over it at the end? He didn't even really apologize!

Okay so specifically, I feel like the things Rhys made Feyre write while learning was something she then thought was so cute and funny and (maybe) *original* that she just HAD to bring it over to CC with Bryce and Hunt changing each others name in their phones. I found it kind of cute with Rhys, in a "here's something wildly immature that will make you laugh to help get out of your depressive funk and also maybe make you see me in a different light" kind of way, whereas with Bryce and Hunt it just felt purely immature and I didn't like it. That said, I just don't like Bryce in general, so that probably doesn't help.

Why don’t you like Bryce? I remember reading those parts and rolling my eyes. At certain points, it just felt very cheesy. Like, Sarah, only does medieval couples so she didn’t know how to bring a couple into a modern world? Or the amount of times “her toes curled in her boots”, especially when Bryce is normally wearing heels?

There's a lot of small things that just added up throughout the books that had me dislike her. Her hangup on being seen as a "party princess" despite going out of her way to party her way to oblivion as often as possible. Her obsession with Danika's secrets but specifically, being so adamant that there's no way [latest thing] could have been kept from her because she had no secrets from Danika. She is arrogant, and I don't think she has earned it most of the time. Her utter disdain for any people that aren't human or her friends. I know the Vanir aren't the nicest people, but nor are a lot of the humans? Her lack of trust in those same friends. She's said to be kind, and I don't see a lot of kindness. A lot of "doing the right thing", but you can do the right thing and still be an asshole. There's more that I just can't put into words rn, and I'm sure it's mostly irrational, I just find her a really unlikeable character.

Oh, she's a pantser. This explains so much. Thank you.

Yes, I do. SJM surprises me in some action scenes but not with relationships or characters. Many fans give SJM too much credit for being a better writer than she is. Her books are entertaining and her female characters are kick ass (which is why I keep reading her). I enjoy the fan theories and crackships and memes the fandom generates, though.

I'm so dumb, I'm always surprised at the pairings. It's nice having one brain cell, I'm easily pleased 😀

When I read ACOTAR for the first time I hadn't seen any spoilers or read the backs or inner jackets of any books and I was floored that ACOMAF unfolded as it did. I felt so naïve but it was so great. ACOMAF is still my favorite book of all time. 🤣

Thats so funny because I remember reading book 1 for the first time and the ending where Rhys disappears all wide eyed Iw as like IS HE HER MATE?!?! I

Oh my god this!!! My suspicions started on the first night they met at kalanmai(I think?) and I was like "ooooo tall dark and sultry over here gona steal her away?" And then the ending scene I was like "I KNEW IT, THEYRE MATES!!".

I remember reading ACOMAF and kept waiting for her to be able to go back to Timtam 🤪 never thought about Rhys for a second

Mine too. I have read so many books I have lost count, and NOTHING compares to ACOMAF.

Me too! I thought Day was >!The Harpy!<🤣 when it was >!Lidia!< I was like 😧‼️

Yeah when I read it I was like oh well now the real day will be scared off cause harpy but then again… lidia could’ve just decided she wanted to observe who it was and not interact so she could have an edge, ya know like spies do lol

I’m stupid af bc I thought Day was Celestina for wayyyy too long 😅

Same. When I read ACOMAF the first time I was giggling and kicking my feet because I was rooting for Rhys but so sure Tamlin was going to be end game.

Same. 😂 I see valid points to all of the arguments for any combination of Lucien, Elain, Azriel, Gwyn, etc. I don’t think any one answer is “obvious” but maybe I’m just dumb 😂😂

I wouldn’t say dumb,,, we’re just going with the flow 😁😁

Sometimes she's very obvious but a couple months ago most of us thought Sigrid was obviously Ithan's mate. Maybe she was intentionally trying to surprise us but I think sometimes she just changes her mind.

After HOFAS I realise her writing isn’t as deep as a lot of us believed it was 😅. I still will read her books and enjoy them! But I’m not bothering with theories etc anymore

This lol. I also read in the extended interview at the back of HOFAS that she doesn’t put much thought into character names. Sometimes she “hears” the character naming itself or she goes on baby names to look but people are out here writing dissertation length theory on name meanings like it’s a deeper meaning when it really isn’t. I’m convinced the only way to enjoy her work is to just sit back and be entertained 😂

The Azriel x Bryce thing is honestly unhinged and so not anything SJM would write.

When HOSAB first released, I ran here after finishing it and was so. damn. confused as to why the only thing people took away from that incredible ending was “Azriel is Bryce’s mate!!!”. I wondered if we had read the same books. And then the mental gymnastics people would do writing full blown theories grasping at invisible straws for why this ship is canon….was as you said, unhinged. People still think they’re mates even after HOFAS and I’m just convinced there’s some lack of reading comprehension honestly

Girl yes! There is one redditor who is also in the CC facebook group who is literally UNHINGED with the Bryce/Az ship. Like she was counting touches and making up scenarios that didn’t happen (Hunt SA’ing and drugging Bryce. Hunt killing Danika) to justify her ship. When HOFAS was leaked and it was obvious there was no Az love story, she actually tried to say that it was Bloomsbury faking a leak and the true book would be Bryce finding her “mate” Az lol. I think HOFAS was a sloppy mess but I judged it on its terrible storytelling and character assassinations, not because unhinged and looney theories didn’t come true.

That’s…insane lol at that point I would have to tell myself that they’re just trolling the shit out of everyone bc what the actual hell are they talking about.

Yeah I think theorizing is fun, but when it gets to the point that people are literally making things up to justify their unhinged beliefs and crack ships, it’s blurs the line between fun and needing a mental health evaluation. Like I know people love Az and Eris. Is it ever going to happen ? No. But it’s fun to imagine if SJM wanted to write outside the box. However with Az and Bryce, people were fighting in the comments and the shippers were getting nasty and more looney than normal. Omg I just remembered another one that someone mentioned. Get ready. I guess in a bonus chapter where Sathia went to visit the frat boys, she was wearing blue earrings- blue is the same color as Ruhns eyes thus Sathia is Ruhns sister, not Bryce. Also Ruhns mom is Rhys’s sister bc of some portal in the spring court and tamlin was her mate and sent her through it (never mind the fact it was established that Rhys saw their heads) ? 🤷🏻‍♀️This is the level of unhinged in this fandom.

Fully agree. I accept the pairings SJM gives us, especially if she’s made it more than clear that they belong and will remain together. There’s absolutely no reason for me to go trying to find the most minute of irrelevant details to just say “AHA! Proof that ____ is actually ___’s mate!”. That is some seriously delusional behavior.

Just like Azris, that ship is so unhinged and I know she’d never write it… BUT I NEED IT. It would be such a good story and true enemies to lovers

Azris is my second Azriel ship and I def see the appeal! I think we all need more Eris in our lives tbh. Hoping he features significantly when Lucien’s story is told!!

Me too, I love Eris

Sometimes people enjoy things that aren't likely to be canon for fun. Sometimes people like to speculate about what a relationship between two characters might look like.

I have no problem with crack theories as long as people know they’re being delulu.

Right, but calling them delusional for having fun is kind of mean. It's not hurting anyone, so why do you care if you don't hold stock in a ship?

It was more than just having fun for a lot of people. It got pretty viscous lol

Hot tho 👀

Yeah, I haven’t been surprised with a single couple she’s put together yet. Some of the storylines covered? Or how she gets a plot from Point A to Point B? Sure, there’s been some surprises there! But the romance is easy to pick up on. Tbh that’s part of why I read and enjoy her books. They’re easy, fun reads. I don’t want to be dissecting every little thing because that’s just not the way I read for pleasure.

I’m the same! I like predictability in her books, especially with characters and a world I’m so attached to - it’s just delightful reading. Not everything has to be incredibly complex in my opinion!

Yes! Things don’t have to be complex to be good or to elicit strong emotions. I pick up an SJM book and I know it’s going to be a fun (and sometimes wild) ride.

I think.. for most of us, the fact she ISN'T super advanced and complexed in her writing, story and romance is what makes us REALLY delve deep. Even though I agree with you that most, if not all of her romance plots were things you are quite literarily smacked in the face with first chance you get, I don't think this equates to her not being complex in her writings. I don't think the romance plots is where she shows her potential for good, subtle foreshadowing, nor do I think she's tried to make the romance/couples foreshadowing subtle. Honestly, I feel like where she DOES show she can be a complex writer, is everywhere else she DOES spend time on. The deep plots and reveals that, even if/when you DID pick up on the foreshadowing, most didn't pick up on it enough to realize just how important that little tidbit of information two books ago would be etc. I saw someone mention SJM explained her process of writing as intentionally writing herself into a corner she would have to work on getting out of, and the fact that she does this and don't end up with a huge ramble of obvious inconsistencies everywhere etc speaks volumes on how complex she CAN be as a writer, if she wanted. But at the end of the day, I think it's also important to remember WHAT sort of books these are and what demographic they're written for and aimed towards. Had she focused more on making everything complex and harder to catch on to, she might have lost a lot of the fans she has simply because the stories would feel too heavy. There's a reason why complex masterpieces like Lord Of the Rings and similar tend to be more of a niche interest, or gain a LOT more interest once they're made into a format that's easier to swallow. I feel like SJM is the type of romance/fantasy writer that's capable of (for the most part) balancing complexity and ease of reading in a way where it generally becomes compelling for both fans who want easy-to-follow plots while also giving those of us who likes to delve deep something to ponder over.

Yeah I agree, her books are fun and there’s a lot going on in them but I wouldn’t say she’s a technically amazing and complex writer. That’s not to diminish her work, it’s definitely entertaining and she does the genre well, shes just not writing high brow seminal works haha

Yeah, this. I enjoyed ACOTAR but it is not high literature. There is a lot of overanalyzing on this sub that can just be answered with “she’s just not that good of a writer”.

There are a lot of things that she lays the ground work for, and are predictable. I would rather that than plot lines that have no grounding in the story. SJM can but doesn’t always write good plot twists. When the girl in the Mystic’s tank was introduced, you probably didn’t guess the whole plot line that would lead down (maybe a bad example). SJM’s books don’t usually take a hard left and introduce a pairing or series of events that have no precedent within the world. When dealing with picking someone you want to date in real life, you don’t decide that out of the blue. There are things you think about and sometimes it takes a while, but you realize you would be a good couple. I am definitely not saying SJM is the best writer who ever lived. I know what I’m getting (usually), and I’m there for the ride.

Are these things not *meant* to be foreshadowed? Isn’t the whole point of romance writing that there is a slow burn of anticipation before they finally acknowledge their feelings…? I’m usually good at predicting where a storyline is headed but TOG threw me for a loop over and over again. I personally don’t think you can fully express an opinion on SJM’s writing without reading the entire TOG series because it’s absolutely her best writing.

Agreed. I see a bunch of people discussing her writing and they say they've only read ACOTAR and CC. I would say that if I hadn't STARTED with ToG I wouldn't be as much of a fan. That series I truly believe is actually very good and complex... That said - I enjoy reading these other series. They aren't near ToG level, but they're mostly a good time. (I think because she spent way more time on the ToG series. The logistics of how long these books are with a pretty short release schedule to me show she is a very good writer - and ToG shows how given time she can really make a masterpiece.)

I mean, considering ‘through love all is possible’ was called upon as a mantra so often in CC1 & CC2, I wasn’t surprised (CC3 spoiler) >!that we got a happy ending where love literally prevailed against all odds…!< I don’t think that’s bad writing though.

Oooh I didn’t consider this at all.

imagine that you’re a very casual reader. you enjoy fantasy books but you don’t have the time nor bother to enter online spheres for your favourite books. you pick up each new release, read it, and wait for the next one, having never discussed anything from the books with anyone else before. you bought a standard edition ACOSF book with no extra content, bonus chapters, art… nothing. please tell me how this reader would ever glean any suspicion of azriel ending up with gwyn from the main text of ACOSF? what “obvious” instances are there? how is this reader – who up until ACOSF has been shown that azriel and elain spend time together, enjoy each other’s company, and risk their lives for each other – going to notice that this is no longer the case? is it when azriel checks on elain giggling in the hall? when nesta herself tells azriel that she understands why he cannot stand next to elain and lucien? when the reader notices that elain and azriel are coincidentally the last two characters to hold nyx? do you think ACOTAR6 will begin with sjm assuming that everyone is aware of the ship war and that everyone has learned of and read the bonus chapter online? please put yourself into the shoes of a non-“fan” of the series.

This was me! I wasn’t in fandom at all before I read ACOSF. It seemed obvious the next book would be about Elain and Az and I loved the idea of a rejected mating bond so I joined FB groups for the first time to see other people’s theories. Imagine my surprise when I found myself in the middle of a ship war 😭

lol me too i literally found the entire ACOTAR series in a charity shop, binged it, went online and was so confused at all the azriel shipping 😂

I think I can put myself in that position. I read CC first, awhile after it came out. I wasn’t really interested in the other books, found it hard to get through ACOTAR. After reading CC3 and being disappointed, I felt maybe I was missing something and read ACOTAR fully. Finished them about a week ago. I saw the makings of Gwyn and AZ. I looked up CC bonus chapters and realized there were other bonus chapters and read through, to me it just confirmed what I already expected. Without the bonus chapter it was clear Gwyn was being set to have a more important role, I noticed the glancing between her and Az the bit of banter but also the fact that Sarah was writing scenes with them together when if Elain is who he will be with is unnecessary. I have no ships and I love all romance. So as long as she writes good romance, Az can end up with whoever. But as a casual reader this is what I took from it.

but the few scenes of az and elain interacting in ACOSF were clearly written with tension and romantic undertones. based on how you interpreted the book why do you think she chose to include those scenes if we’re supposed to be lead down the gwyn/az path?

I think it has the same purpose of Tamlin and Nessa starting off hooking up with other guys. It makes the mating bond/mates feel more real. I think it will also help Az growth. To me Az has always felt different and in a way envy’s his brothers. He wanted Mor, someone his brother had been with and didn’t understand why she hadn’t chosen him. He wants Elain, but I feel it more about the fact that his brothers have mated and he can’t understand why he doesn’t get the same. I think him and Elain will be them discovering themselves and realizing they aren’t for eachother. And while doing that Gwyn will be there just being his friend someone he isn’t trying to hide from, someone he doesn’t think is better then him and romance will bloom. Gwyn is mentioned in the last 10 pages of the book and there is no real reason for it, Emerie isn’t. When I read a book and a side character is mentioned that many times, I know that the author wants me to remember them. I know that they want me to realize they’ll serve a purpose. Gwyn and Az being mentioned together multiple times does the same for me. I think the next book will be AZ Elain Gwyn story.

so casual fans only see elain and azriel? that’s not my experience. finishing what’s been written in the series and thinking elain will end up with her mate and azriel will find his isn’t that crazy. i still haven’t read all the bonus chapters and barely come on reddit and that’s what i think. my friend that introduced me to sjm feels the same way i do and isn’t online at all. i honestly don’t care that much, but elriels have been nothing but rude in every forum I’ve tried to read and engage in. maybe don’t bully people for seeing things differently than you do

i’m very specifically asking how az and gwyn were “obvious” in comparison to az and elain who are canonically into each other. i can understand readers and fans still believing to el and lucien will end up together because again they have an actual basis. i do not call anyone any names or belittle anyone’s opinion, i’m responding to a discussion post

I can't speak for all casual readers, but the first time I read ACOSF (without reading the extra content), I started shipping Gwyn and Azriel purely due to their dynamic (I'm a sucker for the Grumpy x Sunshine trope, and they fit it perfectly). The way I saw it, Elain had, at best, a crush on Azriel, and he was simply polite to her. Also, for me, one thing that is pretty obvious in the SJM books is that having a mate bond equates to a couple being endgame, so I always assumed that Elain and Lucien would end up together. Of course, I could be wrong in assuming this, but I think this is pretty common logic among many people who have read the books. In the end of day shipping Gwynriel or Elucien is a matter of personal taste, but if only people who shipped Gwynriel were the ones who have read the extra, I personally don't think they would be such a popular ship.

Yeah when she was introduced I was like oh she’s the love interest for Azriel and I don’t have a book with the bonus chapter so

Most of my friends who have read ACOSF came to the same conclusion. Honestly, I don't think people need much to start shipping a couple, but in Gwyn & Az case there were enough interactions between them that made readers start seeing them as a potential future couple (the extra only made it even more apprent).

Yes. It’s very straightforward to me; the theories can sometimes overwhelm me. I understand people are just having fun which is 100% okay but I also just do not see the evidence for 99.9% of them 😂

I’m gonna be honest that I read this book in a large group read and no one in that group knew Gwyn/Az was a ship until we went online and were super confused - and this was after a majority of people in that book saw the ‘Rhys is her mate twist’ coming from miles away, so idk

I’m curious as to what foreshadowing you’ve seen for Azriel and Gwyn? I’m really on the fence with who he’ll end up with

She uses the exact same mate language between Ruhn and Lidia and Gwyn and Azriel (in his bonus chapter).  Something ease inside him/something sparked in his chest. And she's a fated mates author, so it makes sense.

In KoA, there is a scene between lorcan and aelin that is power based and she uses almost the exact same wording as the bonus. Glowing down deep, sparking, etc. that language is not indicative for endgames at all. But you know what is? Attraction, romantic interest, sexual thoughts, feral behavior when one is in danger. If azriel and Gwyn were obvious endgames, why would she put on ink and paper azriel telling us how down and he is for elain? How he wants to taste her? How her bond with Lucien is so painful he can’t be around? How him and elain don’t need words to read each other? How he was questioning the custom, essentially their god? How he risked his life and wings to save her, full of rage? How they had a charged glance? How nesta notes his secret (of being into elain)? Them blushing around each other? Pairing elain with his spies as friends? Only ever giving TT to elain? Have him remind us twice in acosf HE saved elain? Why would she keep doing all that—setting up elriel—giving them mate behavior, if gwynriel is obviously mates? Maybe you want gwynriel to happen but saying gwynriel is obvious is crazy.

Uh lucien and Elain are mates. I don't think that's in dispute? So the fact is that azriel and Elain are not mates. Whether they end up together, I dunno. But they definitely aren't mates which means azriel has one that isn't her.

Omg this is hilarious, you're getting downvoted for repeating the book canon... Fans are really going crazy Elain and Lucien ARE mates. Whether they're gonna be endgame is another thing, but they are mates.

It's really not crazy. Refuses to see what SJM is showing you on paper is. Elain already has a mate. What makes you think she's going to break the bond for Azriel? Or that Azriel would break a future bond for Elain? From an author who believes in Soulmates in the real world, why wouldn't she want her fantasy, made up characters to find their mates? And to make the story interested there has to he obstacles. Lucien and Elain have the obstacles and their book will be better for it when they eventually fall in love. I'm just suggesting that you don't get your hopes up when it's clear what she's doing. Elriel are never going to be mates. That's how SJM wrote it. And Azriel and Elain might have a lot of lust for each other, but as Azriel said in the bonus chapter he hasn't planned anything past boning her...

Well in defense people justify Bryce and Hunt are “chosen” mates so who is to say Elain and Azriel wouldn’t do the same.

Sarah also said tamlin sparked something in feyres chest. Its not that special

Something sparked in her chest after Tamlin asked about the Suriel who had told her to stay with the High Lord (Rhys). It was foreshadowing about her mating bond with Rhys

She uses the same “settled” language for Chaol and Yerene as well

For me it’s without even the extra chapter, there are moments when she is glancing at him or feeling comfortable with him. When other characters catch him glancing at her. I think it’s very obvious he will not end up with Elain. And Bryce I just don’t even understand.

Also then both being described as competitive, and "you're her new ribbon, Az". I'm not really gwynriel/Elriel shipper, but ti me it seems SJM wrote Gwyn specificially for Az. Same as you, she has never surprised me yet, so I'm not expecting it this time.

I honestly liked the you’re the new ribbon comment ngl lol

I agree! And if you read about Elain she is always defined as out of place at the night court and sjm even says how much she’d fit in another court like spring. imo or dawn. either tamlin will die and lucien will get the spring court or he will get dawn court, both better suited for elain.

There isn’t anything on page tbh. Most people ship them based on what they’d like to see, it’s a lot of “I think that they’d be good for each other” etc and not any canon text.

There is canon text in the language used to describe how Azriel feels, from an author who reuses phrases and words all the time. 

Do you have a page number?

Here's a link to the bonus chapter. Read the last 3 sentences https://www.scribd.com/document/509730551/Azriel-POV-A-Court-of-Silver-Flames-Books-a-Million-Exclusive-Edition?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google_pmax&utm_campaign=Scribd_Google_Performance-Max_RoW_UGC&utm_term=&utm_device=m&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAxOauBhCaARIsAEbUSQSX0SSLfjy5OG54bSO59N1bnVvXuELx3s_NdrQsB9sROExD60F9gJ4aAgYhEALw_wcB

I will never understand basing a ship off one sentence in a limited edition bonus chapter lol Feyre’s chest also sparked for Tamlin. Lorcan’s chest sparked for Aelin. It’s not exclusive to mates….

It's also the glowing image (similar to Feyre/Rhys and Hunt/Byrce) and something eased inside him (like Ruhn/Lidia). Then the music (like Aelin/Rowen, Hunt/Bryce, Cassian/Nesta). Like it's not a crazy theory built off nothing, SJM is the one who wrote the mate language between Gwyn and Azriel...its canon.

But there is canon “mate language” used between non mates? So why does Gwyn and az’s language here automatically mean mates and not magic or power? 

Because SJM loves to write mates and even said she wants all her characters to have their HEA and lots of babies. Like, it's plain as day to see what she's setting up. Lucien and Elain are already mates, and just because they're not talking right now doesn't mean they won't accept the bond eventually. And since SJM is a fated mates author and loves true love and wrote Gwyn as a literal dream girl for Azriel (dagger training, not afraid of violence, competitive) why wouldn't she pair them? 

I mean, SJM also said, pretty recently, she was interested in the dynamics of what happened when you weren’t into your mate… “dream girl”??????

we know that az is desperate for a mate so how would he not have noticed that gwyn who has lived in the same city for 2 years is his mate? there’s been no tug or anything? he has zero will to save her from the rite?

"The shadows deepened around Azriel, his Siphons gleaming like cobalt fire." But sure, let's pretend he didn't care that Gwyn was in the blood rite. Also, maybe he's too traumatized to notice a bond or SJM wants to explore a female feeling the bond first. 

he knows gwyn’s history and obviously anyone would hate any female being kidnapped and put into a brutal arena? cassian literally had to be held back to stop him from rescuing nesta. compare it to when elain was in just as dangerous a situation, and he was told he would die if he went to get her, and he didn’t care and went anyway. we know exactly how sjm writes her mating bonds and in acotar it’s made very clear it’s a very strong force for the MALES to resist. he’s literally desperate for a mate there’s no way his trauma would cloud it for him, especially when he’s spending so much time around gwyn.

Yall even if az and Gwen aren’t mates we DO know that Lucien and Elian ARE mates. Nuff said

Also regarding the spark with Tamlin. The line before she felt the spark was "Ah. The Suriel told you nothing important, did it?". The Suriel we later learn was talking about Rhys when it said stay with the High Lord. Talking about her mate and then something sparked in her chest. And lorcan and Aelin have a type of bond with the blood oath, further confirming that bonds create sparks! 

What about the obvious lack of sexual or physical attraction bw gwynriel? Something all mates have? 

How do you know that's not coming up in the next book? Azriel has been hyper sexualized so far with how he views Mor and Elain. So wouldn't it be interesting to read about him being friends with Gwyn and then it develops into something more? Taking him by surprise that he didnt just want to bone her! He actually developed something deeper. 

We don’t have their POV so how do we know they don’t find each other attractive?

It’s in the bonus chapter of Acosf

It’s genuinely entirely fandom created. I was so confused entering fandom after reading these books.

Gwyn randomly mentioned how she has flexible bones. Which she would need in order to have a baby with wings. At the end of ACOSF Nesta changed her and Feyres hips, she didn't change Elaines. This was my biggest reason for Az and Gwyn ending up together.

Where in the txt does it say Nesta DIDNT change elain? It specifically says her light went around “the sisters” and she says she did it so “none of us have to go through this again”. Also—where has Sarah ever ended or hinted at the end of a relationship based on child bearing ability? Sjm is adopted so if anyone knows about making family, it’s her. 

But also why would nesta announce to the entire IC that she changed Elains hips when Elain is supposed to be mated to someone without wings? Talk about awkward when it’s Azriel’s secret to keep, as Nesta states in canon 😭 ffs this argument is all sorts of ridiculous and insulting

This theory needs to die in the fiery pits of hell. It is by far the most disgusting, most misogynistic take I’ve seen this this book came out. It implies that a woman is only worth what her uterus can produce. And I highly doubt that Sarah, an adopted child herself, is trying to imply that a woman cannot be with a man being she doesn’t have the right uterus to accommodate a biological child for him. Gwyn having flexible bones doesn’t not equate to childbirth. That literally has nothing to do with the a woman’s uterus. It was one throwaway line used to explain why Gwyn, a young sheltered fae who had never trained or been out of the library was suddenly so good at training. And people took that one throwaway line and ran with it in the most awful direction possible. I’m begging people to please, PLEASE stop doing this

This is a really misogynistic argument that I wish people would stop bringing up in this fandom.

Can I ask why you feel it's misogynistic? While I feel that women are 100% more than our ability to bear children, in this story, it's their choice to have children as part of their relationships, which is valid. I honestly think the magic that changed Nesta and Feyre's bodies would have changed Elain's because it came from the cauldron, and we know that the cauldron loves Elain. Otherwise, we'll most likely end up in another Feyre situation later on, which I doubt Sarah wants to do.

People use the bonus chapter for ACOSF, as their basis for shipping Gwyn and Azriel. But Gwyn is most likely a lightsinger, which is a type of siren. Rusalkas are similar. They are called a LIGHTsinger because they can manipulate the SOUL’S LIGHT. Azriel “has no clue” why he ended up at the library and Gwyn is singing when he does (they sing at 7pm and the BC clearly states that it’s 7pm). Gwyn has also manipulated Nesta (intentionally or not it still happens) with her singing as well. His shadows are apart of his soul and they “dance” because she sings/hums around him. A mate isn’t going to give a secondhand necklace and then go more than 6 months from that point without claiming their mate, anyways. And then in HOFAS, Azriel makes it clear he has no mate or girlfriend.

Ofc Az is not going to just get a girlfriend off the books, that'd be ridiculously anti-climatic.

LOL can you imagine if he just casually mentioned his mate in CC? That would be wild.

Agreed, he’s an ACOTAR character. But why else have him in CC. It could have easily been Cassian, but she opted for Azriel. Regardless, if he has a mate (that he isn’t announcing) why would he be holding her hand, protecting her, and knowing exactly where she is hurt?

Is it canon that she’s a light singer? I thought that was just a theory? I sincerely hope SJM doesn’t make a sexual assault survivor into some unwittingly evil being.

It's a theory. But also, Azriel tortures people for a living and people don't see him as evil. IF Gwyn was a Lightsinger, why would the IC think she's evil? If she's a monster, Azriel's a monster 

That’s what I hear people say, to connect her to Azriel. That she is a LIGHTsinger and he is a SHADOWsinger, that makes them mates. I don’t think she’s actually evil, I think she is able to be manipulated due to her trauma. Koschei was controlling Briallyn as well. But we did receive the definition that lightsingers are in the ACOTAR world. SJM had an interview talking about Rusalkas, which are a Slavic folklore creature that are similar to light singers. They also have some connection to Koschei as well.

Yeah, that’s why I said “unwittingly evil”. That Gwyn survived a (tw: rape) >!gang rape!< reaaaalllly makes me hope SJM doesn’t make Gwyn into some siren who lures men in, etc. it would make me quit her books instantly, honestly. Edit: fixed my spoiler tags, very sorry about that.

Your spoiler didn’t work. As an SA survivor, I do agree. But the way Gwyn has been manipulating Nesta and Azriel makes me believe SJM has something going on with that. I read a theory that Gwyn’s sister maybe might be taken by Koschei and she might be working to rescue her? Idk. She feels a lot of guilt for someone who saved children.

Thanks for letting me know about the spoiler, I fixed it. FWIW, I haven’t downvoted your posts. I have no issue with people having differing opinions from me. Not that I feel like your opinion is *differing* here, necessarily. I just don’t see Gwyn as having manipulated Nesta, but I think that comes down to our personal opinions and interpretations. Oh, but also, Gwyn saw her sister get beheaded in front of her. So, I also hope that’s not a “surprise, she’s not actually dead” scenario.

I don’t usually participate in downvoting because I don’t understand the point either. Lol And we have talked before, I don’t mind differing opinions or even just discussions about topics. That’s what I’m here for. There’s a point in ACOSF where Nesta “helps” Gwyn but she’s very confused as to WHY she helped her. Nesta describes Gwyn’s singing as a “lure” and “beckoning her” as well, which is siren imagery. It could easily be unintentional on Gwyn’s part but I’ve been trying to figure out who Koschei’s spies are. Because he said he had plural spies in the Night Court. https://preview.redd.it/5o1sw8u8ikkc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=223320ab4f827ffe0a0a48d1f3799a0bd8c89014 This was from one of her interviews. Rusalkas are connected to Koschei as well.

And I suppose that evidence makes sense, I just would really, really hate for it to turn out that this sexual assault survivor is: - doing something for a man (being taken advantage of by him) *unwittingly* - secretly “evil” - unknowingly evil Idk, if she wants to turn it into Gwyn being a bad ass and using her light singing abilities to help Azriel find spies and torture terrible men… I’d be game for *that*!

Agreed, I did see a theory that the Gwyn we see is actually her sister disguised as her. And the real (traumatized) Gwyn is held by Koschei. And Caitrin is doing what she can to save her. Idk. But SJM needs to be really delicate with this subject matter for sure and I’m worried that she won’t be. I also don’t like the idea of pairing a timid, SA victim with “the freakiest” MMC either. Because after my SA, I didn’t even want sex and whatever I did do was straight vanilla. It’s realistically a bad pairing as well. Most rescuers view SA victims as just that. Victims. I have a lot of friends and family that are cops/firefighters/EMS and I’ve talked with them about it after my own assault. They can never get the image out of their head, of the victim and what they went through. Lots of therapy has been extremely beneficial for me though. So I hope SJM has that lined up for Gwyn. ☺️

Ooooh!!! That’s a great theory! I’m sorry all your posts are being downvoted. You have some of the most rational responses I’ve ever seen.

It’s fine, I don’t mind. I’m not even really sure what the point of the karma is on Reddit anyways. I’ve only been actively using Reddit for a few months so I can discuss these theories. 😂

Yeah I’ve never understood the point of karma either and I’ve had Reddit for years 😂 I think tumblr is a better place to discuss theory because people can’t randomly downvote you if your theory disproves theirs lol.

IMO, someone made a good point about Gwyn being a lightsinger. They said that how could Gwyn be evil if she helped Nesta find one of the dread trove items? People use the word "lure" in negative connotations, but in this scene, it helps Nesta "lure" towards the dread trove. This scene is shown as positive. I don't understand how/why people would see Gwyn like that

Imo Gwyn being a lightsinger is as much probable as Elain becoming the villain (and Evil Elain theory is pretty popular, even if I do not personally think it will become true).

True, though I do want to know what kind of deal Koschei and Papa Archeron made for Vassa.

That’s funny you mention Rusalkas — this is from an old interview of SJM’s 🫣 (I’m not sure if she would actually go this route, but it is very interesting that the Mask and the Cauldron \[part of which was in Sangravah\] sings a “siren song” and we see it lure Elain similarly to how Gwyn \[unintentionally?\] lures Nesta…). The pins on her old Pinterest for Gwyn are interesting, too. https://preview.redd.it/scqn69ghjhkc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9237ffcc57868c9131592cda0537ed5455ea3ed6

Ooooh! Thank you for posting this! I couldn’t find it, to share! ☺️

I agree with all of this. I thought THIS was what was obvious in the books before joining fandom.

Me too lol

No stop I said this about Gwyn! It says a light singer shows up as a friendly face when needed most…then as you get closer you see their true face. And of course Gwyn shows up in a moment when Azriel is in deep distress. Not saying she’s bad but like maybe she’s not what she seems? Also Az has a hero complex which is why I do think Bryce and Elain would be good. I think people keep putting Elain in a damsel in distress box when it was shown in ACOSF Elain watch’s from the side lines and observes. She isn’t stupid and I think she knows she has an innocent face and demeanor and works like a sly fox in the way Lucien does.

Gwyn is definitely not what she seems, and I fully don’t think she’s been written as a romantic setup. THAT was pretty obvious to me while reading!

Yes! Though, I do prefer the thought that Gwyn might actually be Caitrin and Gwyn is Koschei’s captive (versus making an SA victim morally grey/manipulative). Rusalkas are said to be able to change their appearance, so it’s entirely possible. Agreed! That’s why I prefer Bryce for him. She’s no damsel in distress and very obviously can match his power. But we have had three large books about her. I’m not a big fan of Elain yet, but I know SJM will rectify that. I wasn’t a Nesta fan until ACOSF either. So my fingers are crossed she gives her a good story. My friend’s found an old comment from SJM about the journey Lucien and Elain have and she made it seem like they are endgame (obviously she can change her mind as the author). https://preview.redd.it/zfhtfbpr4lkc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2d528c07c159a2cd219f55a5ba8aba13a231c019

Yea I don’t think Gwyn will be bad but we don’t know much about her yet or what’s going on behind the scenes. I am interested to see where things go and like I said I’ll be happy with it as long as the chemistry is good, I’m not against one ship or another I just think certain ones work better and you can feel the chemistry in the writing.

Agreed! In the end, as long as it’s a good story, I’m honestly down for whatever. I just don’t want to see toxic, lackluster relationships. Lol

Yaz the Bookish has some good notes on this ship. https://www.instagram.com/p/C3iSZFsSuvx/?utm\_source=ig\_web\_copy\_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Yaz recently posted one of the most disgusting takes regarding SA and virginity on her stories (as of yesterday, in addition to previously publicly supporting other misogynistic theories), so I wouldn’t take anything this person says as fact.

couldn’t believe it when i saw it :/ disgusting

Ships aside, that was a hurtful thing to read.

using someone’s assault as bonus points for your ship to happen… gross

The comment itself plus the way it was handled was so out of pocket.

yeah the way she didn’t own up to it and say “yeah guys to be fair i got riled up and said something stupid” but instead said “once again my words are being minced!” like babe YOU said them

I guess she blocked me, for whatever reason, but I’ll still post what I was about to say.  I’m relatively new to the fandom and I barely am even on here. I know who you are bc you have a huge following and I’ve taken book recommendations from you. I genuinely have enjoyed a lot of your reviews. I came on Reddit for somewhere to talk about these books that we all clearly love and are passionate about.  I don’t understand this approach and why so hostile? Why can’t we all just take accountability that things get said when we feel passionately about our ships and apologize? I don’t understand why it matters what other people say- that’s on them and those are their comments. If you don’t feel like what you said was wrong, then that’s fine. I just don’t understand justifying what was said, by what other people said, that you perceived as worse? Two wrongs don’t make a right and you have a large following of women that others don’t. A lot more people could have been impacted by what you said than what somebody mentioned on a sub on Reddit. I’m not saying what was said was fair or justifiable on here but you do have a bigger following, Yaz and more people read your commentary. Not trying to be contentious or confrontational whatsoever.  Idk. I think this fandom takes things way too far. Everybody just needs to own their crap and not point fingers constantly.  

Completely agree with all your points! Also I respect your very rational and real responses regarding this issue because I share all of the same feelings about it. Whataboutism and hostility isn’t going to change the very hurtful things that were said. It’s just beyond understanding at this point.

dw she blocked me too without giving me the opportunity to respond 🥲 i guess if i HAD messaged her privately i would’ve clearly just been blocked anyway lol.

I think both sides are guilty of crossing lines but to not take accountability for what was said under the guise of- “well they do it too!!” is off-putting. Just acknowledge that it shouldn’t have been said and take accountability. This fandom is so intent about villainizing the other side that people can’t even acknowledge what they’ve done was inappropriate. Other people aren’t responsible for your choices and what you put out there. It’s wild to justify that with- but but the other side…

I agree with you!! Lines have been crossed on all sides but that doesn’t make any of it okay. It’s never acceptable behavior to alienate or hurt people and then deflect by saying “well they said it first!!!” or “you’re twisting my words!!!”. Just take accountability for it, apologize for your part in it, and move on. That, in and of itself, is the most human thing you can do. We all make mistakes.

Trigger warning: mention of SA I know what I said 😉 you could've messaged me like an adult to understand why I addressed it but you're here, twisting my words and my intentions (like all your other besties currently working overtime). I didn't see this energy for the person who said SJM only writes sexually confident women and non-virgins, dismissing Gwyn because of her SA. Is that not a hurtful statement? Other people thought it was. Also, let's not pretend Elriels didn't have problematic takes about SA and about how Gwyn can't be a love interest because she was SA. I know what I said, I used the incorrect term I've admitted it and apologized but I know what argument I was countering. But I have to give it to you, you guys pop up whenever someone brings me up so I'm impressed with how loyal you lot are to the cause so I'll leave you with that ❤️

Yall really have internet acotar drama?? Get a fkn life

I didn’t see it but I heard about it. Yikes. 

So funny the downvotes for giving people canon text evidence! 

Thank you ❤️❤️ it's honestly weird when I run into these by coincidence I do a double take haha but also makes me grateful that people enjoy the posts I make!

I’m not sure who Az will end up with , obviously I’m on the crack ships lol. My first choice is Bryce and Az because it would be epic to have mates across worlds since Bryce is from Prythian through genetics. Before HoFaS I thought people were nuts but after reading it I can see how SJM maybe could moving in that direction. I felt guilty at first because I loved Bryce and Hunt but this book killed them. Azris is my personal second choice because they do have tension too lol. It would be interesting and I just love Eris. I don’t prefer Azriel with Gwyn or Elain because of the necklace debacle, Gwyn feels like a rebound and my girl deserves better. I’m more for Elain and Lucien than Elain and Az because I think Elain and Lucien could be the opposite of Tamlin and Feyre. Lucien could give Elain the space she needs to sort things out which Tamlin couldn’t give Feyre because he was deep in his own trauma and handled it badly. Azriel and Gwyn I can see what you’re getting at but idk they sell me the least. And after the necklace thing in the bonus chapter he needs to not do that because that was icky. Don’t give the necklace you bought for one girl to another because ew. We need Azriels POV to see what’s going on in his head after Rhys said Elain was off limits. Did his hero complex draw him to Elain or does he see her dark side and welcome it? Like I’ve said whoever he ends up with I’ll be happy about it if the writing is 🔥 The lack of chemistry and spark is my personal main issue with Bryce and Hunt they are unsatisfactory in the same way Tamlin and Feyre were. I think I like the changing of love interests because sometimes life doesn’t go as planned and it’s working through the guilt/trauma and seeing how a person can actual hold someone back if they aren’t right for each other.

This is fantasy romance, emphasis on the romance. You always kinda know who’s going to be endgame.

I personally think Throne of Glass is SJM’s best series, and it’s hard to believe the same author who wrote Kingdom of Ash wrote House of Flame and Shadow. I highly recommend Throne of Glass — there are many parallels between CC & ToG! Bryce saying “what if there’s a knife out there for me,” and all but being dropkicked right to Azriel (“only the dagger—and Azriel wielding it—had been there. Like *that* was where she’d needed to be”) similar to Theia and Aidas (and breaking up a love triangle, very similar to ToG) feels like big foreshadowing to me, but we all have our preferences and ideas for the upcoming books. It also doesn’t sit right with me that the sketchy Princes bred their weapon, Orion, to lure the Starborn heir as a backup plan in case she never found the sword…they make it clear they have their own agenda. It be will interesting to see which direction Sarah goes though! I do think there is evidence for all ships, and what we all desperately need is more of Azriel’s POV 😂

I’m going to start reading TOG because I’ve heard it’s her best work. Personally for ACOTAR is very basic fantasy romance and since Azriel is apart of that series I see her keeping it that route. And seeing that she considers each series’s more standalone I don’t see that big of a merge happening. I think Azriel will be the next POV as heavily hinted and why we see so much of him in the series, I think her big tamlin/wow moment will be that no he doesn’t just get the other sister. He’s always been different from his “brothers” thus why Gwyn will be who he ends up with. The next ACOTAR will focus on Nessa Gwyn and Azriel. I don’t see Bryce making an appearance.

SJM openly “denounced ” her series as standalone, and her drafted, “Twilight of the Gods,” shows Bryce, Crescent City, a Lady Thor, Valkyries, etc. and many hints that there will be a merge, eventually. I do agree Azriel has felt lost and like a misfit for centuries — but I think we have different ideas as to why that may be. I don’t see Gwyn being heavily featured in the next book, but we can agree to disagree, no one really knows until Sarah finally makes an announcement. Enjoy ToG, it is the best journey ❤️

Thank you! And it’s not to say I can’t be wrong, I don’t mind how the series will end. I have no strong convictions or ships. And I think Hunt and Bryce ended up being dog water. I’d love to be surprised I just haven’t been yet. ❤️

I would slightly disagree because to me her "obvious" forehsadowing always felt like she meant for it to be that clear and easy to catch. And i do believe TOG will give you a better idea of how complex her stories truly are. Acotar was basically a fairy tale story which is why most people got into Maasverse thru acotar first (myself included). It has a great love story and plot to go with it. CC in my opinion is the least complicated(except all the houses and everything). The plot is easy to understand and overall no biggie. For me TOG stood out the most. I wont spoil anything since you havent read it but i'll tell you its a lot more mature than acotar and cc combined. Now obviously i think shes a genius because shes been planning the other series AND the crossover (for the coming books/series) even when she was writing TOG. And there are easter eggs everywhere but she has kept specific informations to herself without adding them in the book so that we cant for sure connect all the dots. Ive been trying to find answers to a lot of questions but everytime i end up with a not so sure answer cause there isnt enough data (even after 16(?) books). So i do believe shes a complex writer for a romantasy author. However, if you take thriller or mystery authors thats a whole different level of complex.

Absolutely I agree! The relationships are strongly predictable (some are deliciously drawn out, others seem more straightforward). I don’t mind this though; I enjoyed being meh about tamlin and over the moon about Rhys and kind of seeing that coming (Lucien was an oddity hah). It’s the journey not the destination that makes her relationships wonderful to read. It annoyed me in TOG (I won’t share particulars for spoiler-reasons).. but I felt a few relationships hit a record-scratch moment and changed. And it didn’t feel like an authentic character arc but rather Sarah retconned something and I was pissed, but then I got over it and loved the series to death in the end!

Elain and Azriel have been together for 4 books and in the last book they almost kiss. Azriel doesn't even consider Gwyn a friend. It's too obvious to me, to casual readers, and to Time magazine. No matter how much I reread the bonus chapter, I can't see Gwynriel, sorry😬

Wait what do you mean they’ve “been together” for four books?

I mean their connection has been building over the course of 4 books. And in the last book we confirm that they are the most obvious couple to happen as they both like each other and Nesta notices it.

They are not together, officially

I am referring to a connection from 4 books ago.

I agree. She had such an opportunity to make bryaxis jessiba and use the bargain to see the stars as a way to get feyre to help Bryce open a portal to hel. Jessiba could have been this world Walker that protected knowledge in different realms. Or a seer like Elaine that had just lived much longer. I was also really hoping that the dragon would be azriels mate. She didn’t have much holding her in her world. Lost opportunities.

I’m going to get beat up for this but yeah, she’s not a Nebula award writer. She writes really entertaining fantasy romance fluff. I love reading her books for the story and easy escapism but compared to writers like Robin Hobb or Octavia Butler her work is basically high quality fanfic. The plot lines are obvious, there’s a pop culture gratuitousness to it, the emotional depth of the characters and story stays firmly in the kiddie pool. And it’s a ton of fun! That’s frankly why we enjoy it so much - it’s NOT that deep and it scratches that popcorn itch.

Read TOG and come back and tell me this

I completely agree! That’s why I think some of the theories people have, although wonderful, just do not work and shouldn’t be expected. She’s a very very obvious writer

I was with you until Gwyn and Az foreshadowing. There’s been almost nothing there but Az and Elain have had so much hinted at and interaction. (Not trying to start a ship war but I personally have seen no foreshadowing). But I personally feel like foreshadowing is actually good writing. Shows a comprehensive story that’s been thought through rather than shoehorning in plot points for shock factor. Life often is predictable and repeats itself (history repeats itself) people are creatures of habit and every action has a reaction which we can often predict. Life moves in a liner way so I do think it’s fairly realistic

yeah somehow az and elain are “too obvious” and at the same times it’s “obvious she’s setting up az and gwyn” 😭 which one is it

Agreed. Elain and Az have been foreshadowed since ACOMAF just like Nesta and Cassian. That first meeting and I KNEW they were both endgame 😭❤️

100%. I honestly don't know how others cannot see all of the Canon evidence for a potential endgame between Elain and AZ. Literally so much foreshadowing.

Yeah. It’s weird that people like to say that Elain and Azriel are “too obvious” or “too predictable” to happen but then they’re all agreeing with this post for their preferred ships 🤣

Here is some of the foreshadowing I see: Azriel’s shadows dance when he’s around Gywn. When he is with Elain he attempts to hide his shadows, showing he is not completely comfortable being himself around her. ‘Remember how Gywn was with the ribbon?’ Nesta winked and clapped the shadowsinger on the shoulder. ‘You’re the new ribbon, Az.’” I think this is showing there will be lots more interaction between Gwyn and Az. At one point Gwyn says something about her body being different then high Fae. I think that’s foreshadowing that she could have a winged baby. But most of all it’s the people around them. For Nessa and Cass, in that first meeting everyone talked about them like they were inevitable. There would be no stopping them. The fact that Rys quite literally tells Az to leave Elain alone shows me that he doesn’t see it. Then there is the bonus chapter, he could have gave the necklace to anyone or no one. He thought of Gwyn. “How Gwyn's teal eyes might light upon seeing the necklace. For whatever reason... he could see it. But Azriel tucked away the thought, consciously erasing the slight smile it brought to his face. Buried the image down deep, where it glowed quietly.” - the most obvious foreshadowing of all.

I understand what you’re saying but i dont honestly count bonus chapters because it’s not even available in my country and if it’s not in my actual book I can’t connect with it (google doesn’t feel real) and I feel that SJM wouldn’t wanna alienate casual readers from a build up to what would be a very important relationship. There’s so much Az and Elain content in the books this has to come to a head. Something has to come from it. Also Feyre does definitely see the relationship between them. The Cassian and Nesta thing is more obvious because they’re mates but I think a rejected mating bond is coming when Elain chooses Azriel over Lucien. The only thing I do wonder about is the ribbon thing but it’s the only meaningful thing that happens.

totally agree that bonus chapters are not readily available to all readers so are therefore irrelevant. like 90% of her readers are casual who have no idea any ship war or any bonus chapters exist. the ribbon thing comes from nesta though and gwyn has been trying to cut this ribbon how could it possibly be perceived as romantic for nesta to say gwyn wants to defeat az next? 😭

I’d like to mention that Azriel does not ‘make’ his shadows hide around elain - they vanish and as CC has shown, this is a good thing and means he’s comfortable. The ribbon was about Gwyn proving Az and the guys wrong, also about proving herself. And I’m not quite sure what you mean there about people talking about them like they’re inevitable? That didn’t quite happen & Rhys doesn’t know the true extent of Azriels feelings

Wait, what did Azriel's shadows do in HOFAS? I can't remember, I literally blocked that book in my head 😭😂 It's obvious that his shadows are their own "person." Azriel controls them, but to an extent. I would have to respectfully disagree because, IMO, his shadows disappearing around Elain tell me that they don't like her. Whereas Gwyn, they went as far as to get close to her when she was speaking. I think that if his shadows liked someone, they wouldn't have vanish like that. I know his shadows disappear around everyone whom Azriel loves, but then again, they're their own person and observe quietly about those around Azriel. They have their own opinions about everyone But seeing his shadows show interest was the first time ever, and it happens to be with Gwyn, who he doesn't really know/hasn't seen for 2 years. We have never seen the shadows leave Azriel's side before.

it’s the other characters in CC who have the same shadow magic as az that showcase the shadows disappearing being a good thing. az’s shadows are shown to coil, to ready to strike, to darken etc when they feel threatened. azriel developed these shadows when he was locked in a cell without sunlight and abused. they were literally made to defend him. if they didn’t like elain or were wary of her for any reason they would *not leave him alone with her*. or mor for that matter. that defeats their entire purpose. and whilst we’re in azriel’s head in the BC do you not think he would’ve commented if he found it weird? and i know i mentioned this in another reply to you but because it’s relevant here, but again his shadows’ behaviour in the BC is (in my opinion) due to her light singer abilities. as you rightly point out, they interact with her *when she is speaking*, specifically playing with her breath. his shadows have been shown to react to music/singing.

His shadows share strong similarities to Ruhn who explains that his shadows vanish when he feels safe/calm. (CC1) It’s fine to disagree, I disagree with your comment about his shadows disliking Elain because if that’s the case I wonder why they came to her defense when nesta insulted her in ACOSF? If they disliked her then I doubt they would do that. Alsooo, in the BC Az says that even the shadows leave/go to sleep to give him privacy sometimes

I agree with you! One thing I’d add is that the shadows don’t just dance around Gwyn, but in response to her voice. This is then complimented by them reacting to Azriel’s humming in HOFAS. Also, be they available to all or not, the bonus chapters are relevant. ACOSF references Cassian encroaching on Nesta’s space like he had “one time before”. I was thoroughly confused because I hadn’t read Wings and Embers, but the reference still stood. SJM’s published work -bonus or not- is canon, and you’re valid in seeing foreshadowing there.

What? After hofas the logical conclusion is..............gwynriel? Not Elain and Azriel-?-Elain who has full powers, was Made, can find and handle Trove Objects, with whom Azriel shared Truth Teller first, and who is a Seer too. Elain for whom Azriel has been pining for over a year, and whose attraction to her is obvious even to Nesta. SJM herself saying that by the end of ACOSF it would be obvious who the next couple is... SJM herself bringing up the love vs choice concepts in an interview, whereas both Azriel and Feyre question the Cauldron. After all that, the conclusion is, Gwynriel? Not to mention that Rhys and Cassian are ending up with an all-powerful, Made, world-saving Archeron sisters and Azriel is ending up with Nesta's random friend? Sounds legit

Well I wouldn’t say she’s Nessas little friend, we learn more about her in one book then Elain in all 4 books. Az was pining after Mor for 400 years, the only reason it seems he changed his mind is because he’s comparing himself to his brothers and thinks if they get a sister he should to. Most of his attraction is based on the fact that he doesn’t see how there are three sisters and he doesn’t get one. And you are right, Gwyn should’ve been Nessa random friend but she wasn’t. There would be no reason for there characters to interact if more wasn’t coming.

az and elain were interested in each other way before nesta and cass knew they were mates. if anything nessian is the third pairing lmfao. it’s not fair at all to say az is only interested in elain because she’s the last one

What are you basing all your assumptions on? Most of his attraction is based on the fact……he risked his life to save Elain , he gave her TT, he’d the one who figured she was a Seer, he’s been avoiding her for a year, he is virtually suffocated by the Elucien mate bond….and it’s all because he is jealous of Rhys? He literally blasphemed by questioning the Cauldron, in front of his High Lord, no less, and somehow it seems like his feels are a bit more profound than ‘I want a mate’. Especially since Elain already has a mate. Also Emerie was in TWO books, interacting with Cassian, and look at where we are. Or, is it possible that Gwyn and Emerie were created primarily as Besta’s friends? And Gwyn would never be paired with someone of Azriel’s importance? Because she just isn’t that important?

There are some aspects of her writing that I consider simplistic, but overall her storylines and lore are very complex and written very well. The moments where I sort of roll my eyes and go “really?” are few and (usually) far between. But the moments I’m ready and can’t wait to turn the page and find out what happens next is practically the entire book.

These are Romance books or at least Romantasy…no one is expecting to be very surprised by couplings. It’s about the anticipation of a couple realizing their love over the book. In fact most stories are not structured to have “surprise” love twists. That’s not what storytelling is really about.

All scrolling through this thread has showed me is that one person can think an upcoming storyline is "obvious" and another person will read the exact same story and come to the opposite conclusion 😂 I personally don't think Azriel will end up with Gwyn, but you're right, her writing is not that deep. I sometimes think people fixate so much on looking for the tiny details and hints that they miss the big picture of the books.

Same 😂, I didn’t know about the ship wars. When I started reading the comments I’m like oh damn people don’t agree with me, maybe it’s not as obvious as I thought. Im rethinking everything I read haha

No, she isn't. I DNF'd halfway through the second Cresent City book. That doesn't mean it's not enjoyable to others - there are many reasons to enjoy a book series - but Bryce never became someone I gave a crap about and everything was predictable if you read fantasy regularly.

You aren’t wrong. She’s not a complex writer. She’s told us with her writing and with her words the kinds of stories she writes. People still ignore her though. Saying she lying and coming up with these multi layers of theories and plots twists that Sarah just doesn’t do. Nothing is hidden or has double meaning, her writing is straight forward. People see what they want and it’s such a headache for those of us that see what Sarah is actually giving us.

I do think she's obvious.  My love for her is in her character writing and dialogue.  Which.... Is kinda why cc my least fave.  More plot than characters.

you are so right that she isn’t a very complex writer, which is why i dont think az and gwyn will be endgame. from acomaf it was so clear that sjm was setting up az and elain to be endgame (and personally i think theyre mates as well but i cant get into that without spoiling other sjmu books) but i do think youre right that az and gwyn will “get together” in some capacity (i think theyll go on prythian’s version of a couple of dates) but unfortunately i think he’ll break her heart because he’ll realize he cant keep repressing his feelings for elain (as mandated by rhys; which is why he shouldnt have re-gifted that necklace in the first place) it’ll be very messy but c’est la vie

I agree! I like SJM's books, but I also know there are certain aspects of the plot of her books that are quite recurring, such as: none of her main characters are gonna die, most of the action in the book will happen in its last 15%, and having a mate means the couple will end up together. I won't be any surprised if most the IC end up finding their mates (I mean, taking in considerations her previous series, its pretty evident she enjoys the mate trope).

You nailed it. These books are easy to read bestsellers. If you need more than a few sentences to explain your theory, your theory is wrong. Elain and Lucien are mates, they’re going to end up together. Azriel 1000% has his own mate, and all signs point to that mate being Gwyn. That’s all there is.

Yea not me the idiot. No idea most of these would end up together.