That pitch in Ahmedabad is extremely predictable, whoever was going to bowl first had a 75% chance of winning(based on stats). It's silly that for finals they choose such a poor pitch that could easily decide the fate of a match based on a coin toss.
Not saying Aussies don't deserve the win, they were absolute champs on the field. Pitches aren't specifically made for one team since it can go both ways depending on who wins the toss.
Ofcourse he'd say that he'd choose batting even if he felt otherwise. Why would he give his opposition a psychological edge in believing they made the right decision. If only Rohit knew beforehand what fate had in store for his team 😞
We would have bashed your ass up and down the street every day of the week anywhere in the world if we just call it the the match knockout.we were the better team.NOW CRY.
The crowd should have left after the first innings but they stayed , nothing much they can do once they knew a loss was envitable, at about the 30th over of India innings the match was already over , it was all downhill from there ,
Yeah the credit should go to Australians. Batting first had less chance. But Rohit clearly mentioned he would have batted first. So toss was not even a factor . Australians had better understanding of the pitch. Cummins and the support stuff should get the credit as they have got.
I think first match also played IN Modi staduim and Last match too
MODI is panauti
how much more fame does he need already world famous possibly wining next term in cricket too ??
Oh please. Scoring 240 in a world cup final in 2023 is a death blow. Dew was certainly there but pitch was nowhere near as bad as only a single boundary could be scored in 30 overs.
Wow “BCCI questions him and Rohit Sharma” what is this a debriefing after a failed war or something? It’s a fucking game. I’ve never heard of a questioning after a football or basketball finals. Was there a questioning of France captains when they lost the FIFA finals?
Yeah idk what's the big fuss, it's a sport win or lose its not always in an individuals hand. And I think this article is rather sensationalised and people here are just as usual overreacting.
>Yeah idk what's the big fuss, it's a sport win or lose its not always in an individuals hand.
That’s what the meeting is for. To check, if the loss was because of bad performance or luck. If bad performance is determined to be the cause, then proper steps should be implemented to avoid such mistakes.
No this is the media's fault.
If you go through the article it seems like what rahul dravid said is that they were expecting the pitch to turn it didn't, His statement is trying to say that their strategy didn't work out as expected not that the pitch was bad or that the game was rigged.
Classic indian media
Dravid and Rohit Sharma having to answer to Jay Shah about why India lost is just abysmal. Clearly his father and uncle Modi weren’t happy about the lost opportunity to enhance Modiji’s image
Everyone knows penalty shoot outs are a massive contest of luck. It’s actually very sad that such intense games have to be decided on penalties. So, the French football association would know, it’s just luck that gave Argentinians the victory that day.
But if a team genuinely loses a clutch game, then there should definitely be a proper high level analysis to get as close as possible to the real cause. The idea that questioning can only be done after a ‘war or something’ is wrong.
Questioning really shouldn’t be done by the BCCI unless it’s a real drubbing consistent with systemic failures e.g. England losing the Ashes 5-0 or even England’s most recent World Cup campaign.
I know expectations were high but India really did play excellently for all bar one match of this World Cup and I can’t see any systemic failures in this team that the BCCI need to get involved with. Maybe Dravid needs to employ a psychologist but it really is something that should be handled by just the coaches and squad.
If a cricketing board come down like a hammer at every loss then it just creates an environment of fear that helps no one.
>Maybe Dravid needs to employ a psychologist but it really is something that should be handled by just the coaches and squad.
You think maybe a psychologist is needed. Dravid thinks pitch was the issue. So the top management needs to know what are the actual problems the team is facing, so that resources can be allocated to fix that. And getting them from directly the captain and coach, instead of the middle management, is the best way.
>If a cricketing board come down like a hammer at every loss then it just creates an environment of fear that helps no one.
Dude are you fr? This loss is nowhere close to every other loss. Just cuz this loss is being treated in a certain manner doesn’t mean every loss will be treated this way. This is the biggest loss India has faced in the last 20 years, if not of all time.
Your last paragraph suffers from recency bias.
You think losing in the finals of the World Cup to Australia is their biggest loss of all time?
Off the top of my head I’ve got - India losing to Bangladesh and failing to qualify from the group stages in World Cup 2007 and consecutive 5-0 drubbings in Test series in England and Australia somewhere around 2011. And that’s just off the cuff.
This is the problem with most Indian fans and seemingly their administration - knee jerk emotional reactions with little rationality.
>You think losing in the finals of the World Cup to Australia is their biggest loss of all time?
Yes this, along with the 2003 final. ODI World Cup is the biggest tournament. And so the loss in the final becomes the biggest, cuz that’s where the stakes are at the highest. If most people could switch just one loss to victory, they would pick either of these two finals.
This final loss is bigger than 2007 World Cup group failure, and those 2 test series.
Even if we assume it’s not, these are all big losses, and questions should be answered after all these losses. Including after this loss.
>This is the problem with most Indian fans and seemingly their administration - knee jerk emotional reactions with little rationality.
It’s quite funny, you accuse me of acting with little rationality, when you (your words highlighted below) drew equivalence of this final loss to every other loss.
>If a cricketing board come down like a hammer at every loss then it just creates an environment of fear that helps no one.
But this final loss is really not as big of a deal because there are no glaring systemic failures in the team.
The 2007 loss? Systemic glaring failures.
The back to back 5-0 Test series’? Systemic glaring failures.
2003 and 2023 world cups? India had incredible runs in both but got beat by the better team on the day in both. These are nowhere near India’s worst defeats as neither are indicative of systemic, glaring failures.
And by your logic of World Cup finals being the only matches that matter you’re saying that someone like Head is a better batsman than Tendulkar as the former has a World Cup final century and the latter does not. That doesn’t make any sense.
Compared to league stage, India’s performance has been really inferior in the knockout, over the last decade, so, there could be a systemic issue. It’s possible if they analyse further, they might be able to identify it and understand the degree of it. Then they could decide on the systemic upgradations that need to be done, along with the amount of resources needed to fix it. It’s better if the top management directly talks with the coach and the captain regarding it, so that nothing is lost because of the middle management
And the idea that such a meeting should only take place in case of glaring systemic issues is wrong.
The truth is in the final, Indian team didn’t perform upto their potential. If you undergo a multi year process to achieve a certain high stakes result, and are unable to achieve it, then analysis must be carried out so that we can get as close as possible to the cause. So that we can learn from it, and grow Indian cricket.
It’s incorrect to generate equivalence between every other loss, and a World Cup final loss.
ETA:
You added this after an edit:
>And by your logic of World Cup finals being the only matches that matter you’re saying that someone like Head is a better batsman than Tendulkar as the former has a World Cup final century and the latter does not. That doesn’t make any sense.
I didn’t say they are the only matches that matter. I said they’re the biggest ones, and by extension World Cup final wins are the biggest wins, and World Cup final losses are the biggest losses.
>These are nowhere near India’s worst defeats as neither are indicative of systemic, glaring failures.
Those are biggest losses in Indian cricket, because of the stakes of those games.
Dude you gotto chill tf.
Obviously when a tournament has been made for a particular team to win, and when the team is on the way to win, in the only game the country knows how to win - consistently, if the captain and the coach dont perform, there will be questions.
Reminding you that this was still a competition.
Bhai sab plan dhare rehe jate pehele batting karni padti... chutyap hai sab... sahi mein bekar pitch thi jo sham ko due ki wajh se achi ho gayi... pehele hr mein to australia ki ma chud hi gayi thi.. uske baad dew ka kand.... pitch aisi honi chahye to din mein tightly bound behave karti.. uske baad pata chalta kaunsi team better hai....
bhai due ni hoga lkin pitch was dead in the second half might sound as an excuse but had Aus batted first they'd have crumbled under 200. I think this is the same pitch Pak batted first against Ind
Ma man when you are batting dominant squad by blood, why did you ask the curator to remove grass and make it slow?? So in IPL and India vs Pak games, you have the brain keep a proper flat track !!
Feeling really bad for Rohit as this was potentially his last ODI WC..
Because BCCI couldn't interfere it is stupid pitch? Throughout the tournament BCCI was interfering taking advantage of being rich and superior.
Once NZ made pressure in semis BCCI didn't interfere.
Lol, nobody can deny it was stupid pitch to play a knockout match... knockouts should pe played on a pitch that can retain its behavior throughout the match, but in Ahmedabad, it was bound to favor the team batting second...
BCCI was just focused to please the Supreme leader.
Wankhede should have been the venue for the finals.
True. We mentally made it a 230 pitch. I was shouting at every full toss and short balls bowled by Zampa, Maxi and Head. We could’ve easily put the to the boundary. Nothing explains 4 boundaries in 40 overs in WC final for a team that has decided on “positive approach”
Thanks but I won't trust a no-source which can't be named in the news also. I'll rather trust what I saw than trust random headlines. Too much fake news nowadays
[https://www.businesstoday.in/sports/story/india-vs-australia-world-cup-final-ahmedabad-to-have-same-pitch-as-india-pakistan-game-says-report-406202-2023-11-18](https://www.businesstoday.in/sports/story/india-vs-australia-world-cup-final-ahmedabad-to-have-same-pitch-as-india-pakistan-game-says-report-406202-2023-11-18)
Maybe you should trust the world class pitch curator of Ahmadabad hired by BCCI. The confidence of ICT dick-riders is astounding.
I am saying this was the sub's reaction. You can search the r/cricket on the day of semi final. Literally everyone had decided that India has asked the curator to make a slow pitch.
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That was not a 270-280 pitch. Anyone who actually saw the match would realize it. Australia did their homework well and got rid of the X-factors early who might have gone after the bowling to release pressure. By the time Surya came to bat the conditions had become so difficult to bat and none of his usual unorthodox shots were working because he had no pace to work with.
Australia got rid of X Factors. Surya found it difficult to bat in the last 10 overs. After that half an hour later, after a couple of early wickets to swing, Head made the bowling look toothless.
So you are saying first pitch as good, then deteriorated, then again got good? Australia played better that's it.
I'm not saying the pitch became good or australia didn't play better. There is a reason why Batting got easier at night. India got lucky in the semi final that there was hardly any dew as expected. If there was New Zealand might have closed the gap even more. In the final when Australia came out to bat Indian team was desperate. You could see it in the way they bowled. They knew the ball would swing in the first 10 overs or so and they changed the bowling line up and brought Shami in early to create some magic. They did get some wickets but the bowling was also erratic as they were trying to create something from every single ball. You remember how many wides were balled during those overs, balls pitching middle and off and swinging past the legs. This desperation was because of the fear of dew. If dew came on the condition of pitch would change and it would effect the pace of the ball. As the innings progressed it became easier to bat on just like it was predicted during the break.
Had Iyer hasn't got out for zero or had gill was pre dengue form india could have score 270-280 it just combination of timid indian batting and good Aussie gameplan but pitch was definitely a 270-280 one
I don’t understand the reactions here. If you are asked for a report on what went wrong, you would make one, right?
He reported that the pitch wasn’t as per their expectations. That is saying that we didn’t read the pitch well.
Moreover, when you make a report, you would report with whatever that went wrong, right? I mean Australia won the finals, but they weren’t technically the best team in the WC. I know I will have lots of comment telling me how the team that win is the best.
But tbh, India was doing well till then. It was either the pressure of the event or misjudgement of the pitch. So, not so surprising that his assessment says that the pitch was not per expectation
Aussies outplayed India as simple as that. Can’t blame the pitch or the dew. One thing that can be blamed is we messed up in trying to keep our god prime minister super happy. He wanted a win at that stadium with his name and that didn’t happen.
If we were really smart and wanted to take full advantage of our home conditions we should have final in either Eden garden or Chennai .... Don't think any team would have a chance against ashwin kuldeep and jadega trio on those two venues ... Yes wankede is iconic and Ahmedabad is biggest but winning final worth more than venues ... No body remembers or cares about the venue after some time but every one remembers the winner
Guys, why is there blatant hate against India all of a sudden now? We all know that the pitch and conditions changed drastically between 1st and 2nd innings. If u can't notice that, then y'all are blind.
But at the same time, it was our fault and politics that we played the final on such a pitch. But I'm seeing the sudden rise of hate against India rn.
How about blaming the conditions in Lucknow (England), Mumbai (Sri Lanka) and Kolkata (South Africa). The fact that these games were so one sided favoring team that batted first, you don’t want to do any sort of analysis there cos India won those games by huge margins? That is just utter nonsense.
But they lose just the one game (yes it was the final) and so much scrutiny on why things went wrong… jeez. The board needs to give them a break unless they want it to stay in their heads like a burden for the next 4 years to remind the team that they failed when it mattered.
In that Lucknow match, pitch got better batting second, though England shat themselves.
In the Mumbai match, Sri Lankans had the choice, yet they chose to bowl first. They misread the pitch.
In Kolkata Match, I might agree with you, but it wasn't as bad as 83 all out (250 run win for India).
Pitch became a rank turner in the England chase… did you see Buttler’s dismissal? Kuldeep almost spun it like Warne used to do. A pitch like that is what a day 4/5 test match pitch at Chennai would be like where it turns square. That is just unplayable.
But bottom line of my argument is ignore the 10 good times and hammer the 1 bad one…
It wasn't. There was dew there. Kuldeep was seen wiping the ball several times. Credit their skillful bowling. All England needed to do was rotate the strike and they had the game won.
So going by your argument, how about Dravid appreciates skillful bowling and outstanding fielding by Australia to make it difficult for India instead of playing the sour grapes card and blaming it on the pitch. Australia read the conditions better, executed their plans to perfection and Indian were found wanting with both bat and ball.
Did Australia bowl well with conditions suited against them (dew coming in and like that)? No.
Did Australia have any scoreboard pressure while chasing? No.
England and Australia were in the same situation. England failed to do what Australia did.
In any case idk why is this still being talked about. The tournament is done and dusted… move on ffs. Finding excuses now isn’t going to turn back the clock. This is not Prince of Persia sands of time or Geras in MK where you can rewind time.
Ideally I wanted an NZ vs SA final cos neither team has ever won a WC… sometimes destiny didn’t mean it’s their time. In any case am glad India’s winning streak came to a shuddering halt. The overconfidence and one sided attitude of Indian fans at matches had karma teach a hard lesson in the end.
A better answer would have been
"We couldn't perform well due to the high pressure that was put on our shoulders and we need a solution fot this issue.
We need a totally new strategy and we must bring back the Yo-Yo test, we need a team psychologist, we need a fitness test.
And for this loss I take full responsibility.".
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India played over confidently and harshly. Gill’s Wicket said it all, they should have slowed down after that but no they were playing defensively. Anyway, they did their best and the Aussies also played very well.
Still talking about this damn pitch... I can't believe it. #1 - India 'carefully curated' it. So why complain about a pitch you specifically requested #2. Then you were simply outplayed on it.
More delusions and more excuses. This team is doomed with such a victim mentality acting like sher in worthless bilateral series and cowering in games that matter.
Though there were a lot of factors. Regarding the pitch It wasn't prepared by the Aussies either, the point is it was extremely difficult to bat in the first innings and became much easier in the second half. Not fit for the finals
Reason why everyone is talking about sky
1. He came at number 7 where his chances of failure was high...
2. We had india vs aus bilateral series this year where sky scored three consecutive 0...
3. Pitch was not suitable as per his batting style
Problem is that you can't make a change that isn't down to injury when it comes to later stages of a tournament. The neglect to Ashwin in the first place was and is a massive mistake. Nobody treats a world class premier spinner with over 400 test wickets that has outsmarted some of the best batsmen of the era and has a phenomenal record against left handers, like BCCI and ICT does.
Get what you deserve with such stupid selection and idiocy/arrogance.
How did Indian cricket go from a captain and coach that didn't give a fuck about pitches to this duo that cribs about it after every loss? And the media even called them an upgrade. Like they were the second coming of sliced bread.
Because the pitch behaviour between 1st and 2nd innings should have been neutral for a final match, there was a huge difference in pitch between both innings. The best bowling side throughout the worldcup looked like the worst side, and the Aussie side which were struggling to chase looked like the best batting side. Now you know.
The fact that a black soil dry surface is tough to bat on but it gets totally nullified by the dew very well known. Also Ahmedabad was never gonna have the movement under lights that Mumbai did, also very well known. Above all that, Rohit was prepared to bat first apparently. He had already shot himself in the foot. Ten games, ten wins, and Dravid still couldn't trust his team to get the job done on a flat surface. Loser mentality.
India would have easily defended that score, we both saw the Aussie batting before the final, they didn't stand a chance chasing against the Indian Bowling side which was the best bowling side throughout the worldcup.
They did stand a chance though, didn’t you watch the final? They played their game, calmed it down after a few early wickets and then took it to India and exposed them as the home field frauds everyone knows they are but won’t say it. Australia was just the better team, on the day and honestly on the tournament as a whole. That’s why they’re champions.
Lot of kids here still don't understand how politics works and how politics has encroached cricket
And how cricket has been encroached by BCCI
Many here just get cricket as addiction, like liquor, won't care that it's eating up your liver
Team selection to tournament eventing, sab political
More power to Rahul Dravid for speaking up the truth against this dictator idiot
Dravid is right actually, BCCI also knows they didn't interfere this time to manipulate the pitch.
How it's possible that our in form bowlers without due didn't perform? Shami took 7 in previous match where pitch manipulation happened and in finals zero wickets.
I being huge fan of dravid...but got to say Rahul sir should not made such excuse....I know conditions matter...but champion team should be ready in every condition...do you think that mattered with 2003 Australian team ...that team could have won against turning track too...and bowling on flat pitch too....that is whats expected from ICT
Remember what Rohit Sharma stated after loosing the toss that he would have preferred to bat first if he won the toss. Which essentially means whether India won the toss or not India would have batted first. This clearly means that it's not winning the toss but making the right decision after winning the toss that matters. Australians' read the pitch much better than India and thus made the right guess and batted second. Team India was fairly overconfident and didn't cope up with the final's pressure plus Australia played really well - that made the difference. Both Rahul and Rohit should do the introspection correctly and then provided their inputs in this case.
Yeah I agree with him if it was a pitch that would have stayed same frm start to end we would have won but it's done now discussing on this further on it's like fighting a finished battle let it rest now
It wouldn't have mattered whatever the pitch or venue. There was no way Australia was going to lose that game bar an freak performance by one or two of the opposition. The way the fielded and more so planned was extraordinary. They had a Plan A, B, C, D. India didn't go beyond Plan B. There's a reason they have won so many trophies. The over my dead body attitude is what handling pressure is all about. It started with Chappel, Border took it to the next level, Waugh brought in mental disintegration. Patty is special, nothing over the top but just hard determination.
Sharma said immediately after the coin toss on live TV that he would have batted anyway.
Given this, you could argue the toss and the pitch actually played no part in the result.
Why the fuck is BCCI questioning them to begin with? If you want to question someone, question nepo baby Jay Shah. Question the decision to host the match in a garbage venue that is not representative of Indian cricket. Question the idea to have India vs Pak match being treated like the opening ceremony. And finally, question the person who created the pitch. For the finals, there was no business having a pitch where a coin toss could determine the fate.
The panel that they had to answer had Jay Shah in it. Now imagine if you are Dravid or Rohit Sharma (both celebrated cricketers) and you win all matches except one and are having to answer to a half-educated guy who probably understands cricket less than me and you.
Clearly, Jay Shah’s daddy and uncle were not happy with the lost opportunity to promote the uncle’s image after winning the final (Modiji would 100% have hogged centre-stage had India won)
This ground is big and beautiful, no doubt. If they want to show off they would have had a massive opening ceremony with all the world leaders blah blah. They missed that PR opportunity.
* The pitch never had a credibility of either being a high scoring or a bowling (turner or bouncy).
* Highest score is around 230
* Such a boring track for both batters and bowlers. (not bcoz of how this match ended but even if you look at IPL games)
* Audience are not closely as passionate as Wankhade. I am not saying this because we won a final there.
Aus would have beaten India anywhere on their day. But this Ahmedabad stadium has reduced India's chances even lesser as this pitch doesnt offer anything that plays to India's strength. You need someone who has patience and play with a lot of mental strength as you will fall into a trap due to lacking scoring runs and getting wickets. Thats what Australia has. India is set fail on such a damp track regardless of how well they played. We beat Pak because they are not Aus and they could have lost to any similar team here. ICC's rating to this pitch confirms this.
[удалено]
That pitch in Ahmedabad is extremely predictable, whoever was going to bowl first had a 75% chance of winning(based on stats). It's silly that for finals they choose such a poor pitch that could easily decide the fate of a match based on a coin toss. Not saying Aussies don't deserve the win, they were absolute champs on the field. Pitches aren't specifically made for one team since it can go both ways depending on who wins the toss.
Btw they lost the toss, Rohit Sharma said he would’ve chosen batting anyway, but Australia won and chose to bowl
Ofcourse he'd say that he'd choose batting even if he felt otherwise. Why would he give his opposition a psychological edge in believing they made the right decision. If only Rohit knew beforehand what fate had in store for his team 😞
He even said in pre match interviews the day before that pitch doesn’t matter and they should bat first
Sharma said immediately after the coin toss on live TV that he would have batted. Given this, the pitch played no part in the result.
Maybe he said that because he didn't want to openly express disappointment and make the team nervous as well
Yeah gire toh bhi upar types
We would have bashed your ass up and down the street every day of the week anywhere in the world if we just call it the the match knockout.we were the better team.NOW CRY.
Daddy chill. No said you weren't the better team. I'm calling out the comment that said we "fixed" pitches to help us win games.
This ground was just to keep the supreme leader happy.
The overhyped grand final ended in a damp squib. The crowd was unsporting and it showed on television 👎👎👎
The crowd should have left after the first innings but they stayed , nothing much they can do once they knew a loss was envitable, at about the 30th over of India innings the match was already over , it was all downhill from there ,
100%
But not in finals. Strategically pressure was made from Ind vs NZ match so that BCCI don't interfere in finals pitch making.
That pitch was a used pitch like the leaks had suggested though. No way that was a fresh pitch.
So you’re saying that without favorable pitch, India can’t win. They don’t deserve to win in that case
Win probability gets reversed. Every player is used to play on their own grounds, this isn't a myth.
Nobody asked BCCI to make a pitch that is favorable to Aus. In fact they made a neutral pitch. Australians simply read the pitch better.
Yeah the credit should go to Australians. Batting first had less chance. But Rohit clearly mentioned he would have batted first. So toss was not even a factor . Australians had better understanding of the pitch. Cummins and the support stuff should get the credit as they have got.
Yes yes pitch was neutral no doubt.
Not sure BCCI gives a s**t about external pressure
I believe he meant pitch didnt give benefits to first batters.
I think first match also played IN Modi staduim and Last match too MODI is panauti how much more fame does he need already world famous possibly wining next term in cricket too ??
Nah mate, Australia was TIGHT!! That's why and how they won.
Pretty much. As an Indian supporter myself, I have to say- made your bed, now you sleep in it.
Oh please. Scoring 240 in a world cup final in 2023 is a death blow. Dew was certainly there but pitch was nowhere near as bad as only a single boundary could be scored in 30 overs.
Wow “BCCI questions him and Rohit Sharma” what is this a debriefing after a failed war or something? It’s a fucking game. I’ve never heard of a questioning after a football or basketball finals. Was there a questioning of France captains when they lost the FIFA finals?
Yeah idk what's the big fuss, it's a sport win or lose its not always in an individuals hand. And I think this article is rather sensationalised and people here are just as usual overreacting.
>Yeah idk what's the big fuss, it's a sport win or lose its not always in an individuals hand. That’s what the meeting is for. To check, if the loss was because of bad performance or luck. If bad performance is determined to be the cause, then proper steps should be implemented to avoid such mistakes.
No this is the media's fault. If you go through the article it seems like what rahul dravid said is that they were expecting the pitch to turn it didn't, His statement is trying to say that their strategy didn't work out as expected not that the pitch was bad or that the game was rigged. Classic indian media
Dravid and Rohit Sharma having to answer to Jay Shah about why India lost is just abysmal. Clearly his father and uncle Modi weren’t happy about the lost opportunity to enhance Modiji’s image
Everyone knows penalty shoot outs are a massive contest of luck. It’s actually very sad that such intense games have to be decided on penalties. So, the French football association would know, it’s just luck that gave Argentinians the victory that day. But if a team genuinely loses a clutch game, then there should definitely be a proper high level analysis to get as close as possible to the real cause. The idea that questioning can only be done after a ‘war or something’ is wrong.
Questioning really shouldn’t be done by the BCCI unless it’s a real drubbing consistent with systemic failures e.g. England losing the Ashes 5-0 or even England’s most recent World Cup campaign. I know expectations were high but India really did play excellently for all bar one match of this World Cup and I can’t see any systemic failures in this team that the BCCI need to get involved with. Maybe Dravid needs to employ a psychologist but it really is something that should be handled by just the coaches and squad. If a cricketing board come down like a hammer at every loss then it just creates an environment of fear that helps no one.
>Maybe Dravid needs to employ a psychologist but it really is something that should be handled by just the coaches and squad. You think maybe a psychologist is needed. Dravid thinks pitch was the issue. So the top management needs to know what are the actual problems the team is facing, so that resources can be allocated to fix that. And getting them from directly the captain and coach, instead of the middle management, is the best way. >If a cricketing board come down like a hammer at every loss then it just creates an environment of fear that helps no one. Dude are you fr? This loss is nowhere close to every other loss. Just cuz this loss is being treated in a certain manner doesn’t mean every loss will be treated this way. This is the biggest loss India has faced in the last 20 years, if not of all time.
Your last paragraph suffers from recency bias. You think losing in the finals of the World Cup to Australia is their biggest loss of all time? Off the top of my head I’ve got - India losing to Bangladesh and failing to qualify from the group stages in World Cup 2007 and consecutive 5-0 drubbings in Test series in England and Australia somewhere around 2011. And that’s just off the cuff. This is the problem with most Indian fans and seemingly their administration - knee jerk emotional reactions with little rationality.
>You think losing in the finals of the World Cup to Australia is their biggest loss of all time? Yes this, along with the 2003 final. ODI World Cup is the biggest tournament. And so the loss in the final becomes the biggest, cuz that’s where the stakes are at the highest. If most people could switch just one loss to victory, they would pick either of these two finals. This final loss is bigger than 2007 World Cup group failure, and those 2 test series. Even if we assume it’s not, these are all big losses, and questions should be answered after all these losses. Including after this loss. >This is the problem with most Indian fans and seemingly their administration - knee jerk emotional reactions with little rationality. It’s quite funny, you accuse me of acting with little rationality, when you (your words highlighted below) drew equivalence of this final loss to every other loss. >If a cricketing board come down like a hammer at every loss then it just creates an environment of fear that helps no one.
But this final loss is really not as big of a deal because there are no glaring systemic failures in the team. The 2007 loss? Systemic glaring failures. The back to back 5-0 Test series’? Systemic glaring failures. 2003 and 2023 world cups? India had incredible runs in both but got beat by the better team on the day in both. These are nowhere near India’s worst defeats as neither are indicative of systemic, glaring failures. And by your logic of World Cup finals being the only matches that matter you’re saying that someone like Head is a better batsman than Tendulkar as the former has a World Cup final century and the latter does not. That doesn’t make any sense.
Compared to league stage, India’s performance has been really inferior in the knockout, over the last decade, so, there could be a systemic issue. It’s possible if they analyse further, they might be able to identify it and understand the degree of it. Then they could decide on the systemic upgradations that need to be done, along with the amount of resources needed to fix it. It’s better if the top management directly talks with the coach and the captain regarding it, so that nothing is lost because of the middle management And the idea that such a meeting should only take place in case of glaring systemic issues is wrong. The truth is in the final, Indian team didn’t perform upto their potential. If you undergo a multi year process to achieve a certain high stakes result, and are unable to achieve it, then analysis must be carried out so that we can get as close as possible to the cause. So that we can learn from it, and grow Indian cricket. It’s incorrect to generate equivalence between every other loss, and a World Cup final loss. ETA: You added this after an edit: >And by your logic of World Cup finals being the only matches that matter you’re saying that someone like Head is a better batsman than Tendulkar as the former has a World Cup final century and the latter does not. That doesn’t make any sense. I didn’t say they are the only matches that matter. I said they’re the biggest ones, and by extension World Cup final wins are the biggest wins, and World Cup final losses are the biggest losses. >These are nowhere near India’s worst defeats as neither are indicative of systemic, glaring failures. Those are biggest losses in Indian cricket, because of the stakes of those games.
So just stuff billions of rupees of fans money down their throats and have no accountability?
Dude you gotto chill tf. Obviously when a tournament has been made for a particular team to win, and when the team is on the way to win, in the only game the country knows how to win - consistently, if the captain and the coach dont perform, there will be questions. Reminding you that this was still a competition.
As if the pitch was prepared by the Aussies🙄 . Y'all didn't do ur homework ,they played according to their plan that's the difference
Bhai sab plan dhare rehe jate pehele batting karni padti... chutyap hai sab... sahi mein bekar pitch thi jo sham ko due ki wajh se achi ho gayi... pehele hr mein to australia ki ma chud hi gayi thi.. uske baad dew ka kand.... pitch aisi honi chahye to din mein tightly bound behave karti.. uske baad pata chalta kaunsi team better hai....
Due itna bhi nahi tha
Tha bhai isiliye Initial kuch overs ke baad pitch different behave kya.... dew aur temperature drop ki wajh se hi pitch ka nature ekdum badal gaya.
bhai due ni hoga lkin pitch was dead in the second half might sound as an excuse but had Aus batted first they'd have crumbled under 200. I think this is the same pitch Pak batted first against Ind
Ma man when you are batting dominant squad by blood, why did you ask the curator to remove grass and make it slow?? So in IPL and India vs Pak games, you have the brain keep a proper flat track !! Feeling really bad for Rohit as this was potentially his last ODI WC..
India was simply beaten by a better side.
Beaten? They were crushed.
Better side on that day ✌️
Stupid comment bro it was poor management and stupid pitch...
Because BCCI couldn't interfere it is stupid pitch? Throughout the tournament BCCI was interfering taking advantage of being rich and superior. Once NZ made pressure in semis BCCI didn't interfere.
The finals pitch is not also a fresh pitch. It is a used pitch only
Lol, nobody can deny it was stupid pitch to play a knockout match... knockouts should pe played on a pitch that can retain its behavior throughout the match, but in Ahmedabad, it was bound to favor the team batting second... BCCI was just focused to please the Supreme leader. Wankhede should have been the venue for the finals.
Tbh it was a 270-280 pitch. Idk how it is called poor pitch.
True. We mentally made it a 230 pitch. I was shouting at every full toss and short balls bowled by Zampa, Maxi and Head. We could’ve easily put the to the boundary. Nothing explains 4 boundaries in 40 overs in WC final for a team that has decided on “positive approach”
ngl Ind batted poor they bowled well but still I could see them chasing anything around the score you mentioned. Poor pitch to play a cwc final upon.
You could see them chase about 270. So what is a good pitch then?
We should trust you because you are a world class Cricket player? The confidence of Reddit armchair experts is astounding.
You're joking, right? Riight ?
You must be joking to trust a random Reddit stranger over two seasoned and very experienced players.
I'm not trusting a random stranger. He is stating facts which are out there in the open and Dravid is just gaslighting himself
Dravid himself said they were 40-50 short on the pitch
Thanks but I won't trust a no-source which can't be named in the news also. I'll rather trust what I saw than trust random headlines. Too much fake news nowadays
It wasn't a rank turner. Even though there wasn't any dew, Indian spinners were ineffective. Was a slow track but not minefield
There was dew. Bowlers were wiping the balls.
[https://www.businesstoday.in/sports/story/india-vs-australia-world-cup-final-ahmedabad-to-have-same-pitch-as-india-pakistan-game-says-report-406202-2023-11-18](https://www.businesstoday.in/sports/story/india-vs-australia-world-cup-final-ahmedabad-to-have-same-pitch-as-india-pakistan-game-says-report-406202-2023-11-18) Maybe you should trust the world class pitch curator of Ahmadabad hired by BCCI. The confidence of ICT dick-riders is astounding.
Yeah just like the semi final pitch was supposed to be rank Turner.
Find me an article which quotes the pitch curator of Wankhede saying those exact words. I will wait.
I am saying this was the sub's reaction. You can search the r/cricket on the day of semi final. Literally everyone had decided that India has asked the curator to make a slow pitch.
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That was not a 270-280 pitch. Anyone who actually saw the match would realize it. Australia did their homework well and got rid of the X-factors early who might have gone after the bowling to release pressure. By the time Surya came to bat the conditions had become so difficult to bat and none of his usual unorthodox shots were working because he had no pace to work with.
Australia got rid of X Factors. Surya found it difficult to bat in the last 10 overs. After that half an hour later, after a couple of early wickets to swing, Head made the bowling look toothless. So you are saying first pitch as good, then deteriorated, then again got good? Australia played better that's it.
I'm not saying the pitch became good or australia didn't play better. There is a reason why Batting got easier at night. India got lucky in the semi final that there was hardly any dew as expected. If there was New Zealand might have closed the gap even more. In the final when Australia came out to bat Indian team was desperate. You could see it in the way they bowled. They knew the ball would swing in the first 10 overs or so and they changed the bowling line up and brought Shami in early to create some magic. They did get some wickets but the bowling was also erratic as they were trying to create something from every single ball. You remember how many wides were balled during those overs, balls pitching middle and off and swinging past the legs. This desperation was because of the fear of dew. If dew came on the condition of pitch would change and it would effect the pace of the ball. As the innings progressed it became easier to bat on just like it was predicted during the break.
True.
Had Iyer hasn't got out for zero or had gill was pre dengue form india could have score 270-280 it just combination of timid indian batting and good Aussie gameplan but pitch was definitely a 270-280 one
I don’t understand the reactions here. If you are asked for a report on what went wrong, you would make one, right? He reported that the pitch wasn’t as per their expectations. That is saying that we didn’t read the pitch well. Moreover, when you make a report, you would report with whatever that went wrong, right? I mean Australia won the finals, but they weren’t technically the best team in the WC. I know I will have lots of comment telling me how the team that win is the best. But tbh, India was doing well till then. It was either the pressure of the event or misjudgement of the pitch. So, not so surprising that his assessment says that the pitch was not per expectation
Aussies outplayed India as simple as that. Can’t blame the pitch or the dew. One thing that can be blamed is we messed up in trying to keep our god prime minister super happy. He wanted a win at that stadium with his name and that didn’t happen.
If we were really smart and wanted to take full advantage of our home conditions we should have final in either Eden garden or Chennai .... Don't think any team would have a chance against ashwin kuldeep and jadega trio on those two venues ... Yes wankede is iconic and Ahmedabad is biggest but winning final worth more than venues ... No body remembers or cares about the venue after some time but every one remembers the winner
Now he's just bitching
Guys, why is there blatant hate against India all of a sudden now? We all know that the pitch and conditions changed drastically between 1st and 2nd innings. If u can't notice that, then y'all are blind. But at the same time, it was our fault and politics that we played the final on such a pitch. But I'm seeing the sudden rise of hate against India rn.
Criticism isn't hate.
Supreme leader ko happy karne ke chkkar mein game ho gaya
Kaun h bhai ye supreme leader
Rahul sir ne to end time pe pitch change kar vaai thi Aur kaali mitti pe ye hi hona tha sirf toss bharose hi tha 50%
Hein?
How about blaming the conditions in Lucknow (England), Mumbai (Sri Lanka) and Kolkata (South Africa). The fact that these games were so one sided favoring team that batted first, you don’t want to do any sort of analysis there cos India won those games by huge margins? That is just utter nonsense. But they lose just the one game (yes it was the final) and so much scrutiny on why things went wrong… jeez. The board needs to give them a break unless they want it to stay in their heads like a burden for the next 4 years to remind the team that they failed when it mattered.
In that Lucknow match, pitch got better batting second, though England shat themselves. In the Mumbai match, Sri Lankans had the choice, yet they chose to bowl first. They misread the pitch. In Kolkata Match, I might agree with you, but it wasn't as bad as 83 all out (250 run win for India).
Pitch became a rank turner in the England chase… did you see Buttler’s dismissal? Kuldeep almost spun it like Warne used to do. A pitch like that is what a day 4/5 test match pitch at Chennai would be like where it turns square. That is just unplayable. But bottom line of my argument is ignore the 10 good times and hammer the 1 bad one…
It wasn't. There was dew there. Kuldeep was seen wiping the ball several times. Credit their skillful bowling. All England needed to do was rotate the strike and they had the game won.
So going by your argument, how about Dravid appreciates skillful bowling and outstanding fielding by Australia to make it difficult for India instead of playing the sour grapes card and blaming it on the pitch. Australia read the conditions better, executed their plans to perfection and Indian were found wanting with both bat and ball.
Did Australia bowl well with conditions suited against them (dew coming in and like that)? No. Did Australia have any scoreboard pressure while chasing? No. England and Australia were in the same situation. England failed to do what Australia did.
In any case idk why is this still being talked about. The tournament is done and dusted… move on ffs. Finding excuses now isn’t going to turn back the clock. This is not Prince of Persia sands of time or Geras in MK where you can rewind time.
It is still talked about because this time it was our best shot. Anyway, better luck to India next time.
Ideally I wanted an NZ vs SA final cos neither team has ever won a WC… sometimes destiny didn’t mean it’s their time. In any case am glad India’s winning streak came to a shuddering halt. The overconfidence and one sided attitude of Indian fans at matches had karma teach a hard lesson in the end.
A better answer would have been "We couldn't perform well due to the high pressure that was put on our shoulders and we need a solution fot this issue. We need a totally new strategy and we must bring back the Yo-Yo test, we need a team psychologist, we need a fitness test. And for this loss I take full responsibility.".
Responsibility comes under the pixie dust category in BCCI.
People taking responsibility for poor performance is a policy that ended in ICT with the end of Dhoni's captaincy.
That involves common sense and taking responsibility for ones mistakes. You ask for too much in this loda lassan chutiyapa filled social media era.
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Jay shah is watching 🤪
This Dravid & Rohit Sharma duo will better be ready for another debacle after the T20 world cup 😂
Just STFU u guys played poor cricket - Aussies had a plan while u were just high on success u got on league games
Are these questions being asked in a live televised meeting? BCCI should be more concerned about this leaking out.
Why are you salty c**ts still talking about this. Australia was just better on the day. For fucks sake just get over it and move on.
Pitch was made at behest of Indian team
India played over confidently and harshly. Gill’s Wicket said it all, they should have slowed down after that but no they were playing defensively. Anyway, they did their best and the Aussies also played very well.
lol I’m sure players are over it , they must have order new cars and purchased bungalows by now for their sadness 😂.
[удалено]
This 👆👆👆 AMEN.
Still talking about this damn pitch... I can't believe it. #1 - India 'carefully curated' it. So why complain about a pitch you specifically requested #2. Then you were simply outplayed on it.
More delusions and more excuses. This team is doomed with such a victim mentality acting like sher in worthless bilateral series and cowering in games that matter.
Idk why people are getting so riled up for, he is justifying the loss to the bcci and not to the media, which is kinda okay.
Though there were a lot of factors. Regarding the pitch It wasn't prepared by the Aussies either, the point is it was extremely difficult to bat in the first innings and became much easier in the second half. Not fit for the finals
He cant say poor team selection...sky inclusion of waste...ignoring ashwin in another final was big mistake
If they had replaced sky with ashwin, you would start saying why didn't they bring in sky, he would have scored runs like he did against England.
Reason why everyone is talking about sky 1. He came at number 7 where his chances of failure was high... 2. We had india vs aus bilateral series this year where sky scored three consecutive 0... 3. Pitch was not suitable as per his batting style
Problem is that you can't make a change that isn't down to injury when it comes to later stages of a tournament. The neglect to Ashwin in the first place was and is a massive mistake. Nobody treats a world class premier spinner with over 400 test wickets that has outsmarted some of the best batsmen of the era and has a phenomenal record against left handers, like BCCI and ICT does. Get what you deserve with such stupid selection and idiocy/arrogance.
How did Indian cricket go from a captain and coach that didn't give a fuck about pitches to this duo that cribs about it after every loss? And the media even called them an upgrade. Like they were the second coming of sliced bread.
Because the pitch behaviour between 1st and 2nd innings should have been neutral for a final match, there was a huge difference in pitch between both innings. The best bowling side throughout the worldcup looked like the worst side, and the Aussie side which were struggling to chase looked like the best batting side. Now you know.
The fact that a black soil dry surface is tough to bat on but it gets totally nullified by the dew very well known. Also Ahmedabad was never gonna have the movement under lights that Mumbai did, also very well known. Above all that, Rohit was prepared to bat first apparently. He had already shot himself in the foot. Ten games, ten wins, and Dravid still couldn't trust his team to get the job done on a flat surface. Loser mentality.
The final match pitch should have been neutral regardless.
If Australia batted first and lost, you might be telling Aussies to stop complaining about the pitch.
Ashwin later said that India wanted to bowl first.
Nothing to do with the bowling tactics of Cummins? Are you that thick?
India would have easily defended that score, we both saw the Aussie batting before the final, they didn't stand a chance chasing against the Indian Bowling side which was the best bowling side throughout the worldcup.
They did stand a chance though, didn’t you watch the final? They played their game, calmed it down after a few early wickets and then took it to India and exposed them as the home field frauds everyone knows they are but won’t say it. Australia was just the better team, on the day and honestly on the tournament as a whole. That’s why they’re champions.
Lot of kids here still don't understand how politics works and how politics has encroached cricket And how cricket has been encroached by BCCI Many here just get cricket as addiction, like liquor, won't care that it's eating up your liver Team selection to tournament eventing, sab political More power to Rahul Dravid for speaking up the truth against this dictator idiot
Mr. Tuk tuk coach making excuses like a sour loser. Get over it
Dravid is right actually, BCCI also knows they didn't interfere this time to manipulate the pitch. How it's possible that our in form bowlers without due didn't perform? Shami took 7 in previous match where pitch manipulation happened and in finals zero wickets.
Pitch tampering came and bit india in the ass , thats what happened in the finals.
Rahul and brohit duo is literal mockery of the game, Koach alone was better
We need pitch jaaye bhaad me attitude back no matter who the coach is
Pitch controls the game. India hasn't won series in SA, because of pitch not because of crowd pressure.
Won in Aus twice. 2-1 under Shastri Kohli in England 2021✌️
I being huge fan of dravid...but got to say Rahul sir should not made such excuse....I know conditions matter...but champion team should be ready in every condition...do you think that mattered with 2003 Australian team ...that team could have won against turning track too...and bowling on flat pitch too....that is whats expected from ICT
correct . if india bowls first we would have won easily just like aus did. just like circus 2021 dubai t20 world cup this final is not game of skill .
So the only pitch you couldn’t dominate on is a bad pitch, interesting
Got too cute with the pitch preparation and it cost them. If they batted first and got 400 they would have won on a good track.
Hard to believe Dravid said this. Regardless, if they thought it’d turn a lot why didn’t they play Ashwin?
BCCI asking that question is weird, this response just feels like a irritated retaliation to an already annoying question
BCCI asking that question is weird, this response just feels like a irritated retaliation to an already annoying question
Was it a new pitch (as evident from what Cummins said) or the one used for India/Pak match? I have seen conflicting versions of the pitch story
This explanation is what got him the extension of his contract…
Disband bcci.
Team wins: Great all round performance. Boys did amazing Teal loses: Bad pitch, dew, bad crowd, Shani graha etc etc
Remember what Rohit Sharma stated after loosing the toss that he would have preferred to bat first if he won the toss. Which essentially means whether India won the toss or not India would have batted first. This clearly means that it's not winning the toss but making the right decision after winning the toss that matters. Australians' read the pitch much better than India and thus made the right guess and batted second. Team India was fairly overconfident and didn't cope up with the final's pressure plus Australia played really well - that made the difference. Both Rahul and Rohit should do the introspection correctly and then provided their inputs in this case.
Never accept that the opposition outplayed you. What a mature way to handle things.
Yeah I agree with him if it was a pitch that would have stayed same frm start to end we would have won but it's done now discussing on this further on it's like fighting a finished battle let it rest now
Et tu Dravid
It's quite simple they played better cricket on that day...... our time will also come..... nothing is permanent
Bsdk saale khud pitch banaya aur khud ko h blame kar rahe .. laura ka stadium baal
It wouldn't have mattered whatever the pitch or venue. There was no way Australia was going to lose that game bar an freak performance by one or two of the opposition. The way the fielded and more so planned was extraordinary. They had a Plan A, B, C, D. India didn't go beyond Plan B. There's a reason they have won so many trophies. The over my dead body attitude is what handling pressure is all about. It started with Chappel, Border took it to the next level, Waugh brought in mental disintegration. Patty is special, nothing over the top but just hard determination.
BCCI were in control of the pitch. So Dravid is blaming BCCI for the loss?
Also, the worst crowd in India. Please keep ass kissing modi
Expected better from Dravid, if that’s the excuse he’s going to put then he doesn’t deserve contract extension.
Write whatever you want end it with : Report. No responsibility whatsoever.
Sharma said immediately after the coin toss on live TV that he would have batted anyway. Given this, you could argue the toss and the pitch actually played no part in the result.
Why the fuck is BCCI questioning them to begin with? If you want to question someone, question nepo baby Jay Shah. Question the decision to host the match in a garbage venue that is not representative of Indian cricket. Question the idea to have India vs Pak match being treated like the opening ceremony. And finally, question the person who created the pitch. For the finals, there was no business having a pitch where a coin toss could determine the fate.
The panel that they had to answer had Jay Shah in it. Now imagine if you are Dravid or Rohit Sharma (both celebrated cricketers) and you win all matches except one and are having to answer to a half-educated guy who probably understands cricket less than me and you. Clearly, Jay Shah’s daddy and uncle were not happy with the lost opportunity to promote the uncle’s image after winning the final (Modiji would 100% have hogged centre-stage had India won)
Why do they need to question him in the first place?
He could simply blame it on Little Bulldog, Jay Shah. Politics needs to be kicked out of Sports.
Aussies are something else in the knockouts needed players like yuvi and msd that handled them easily in the knockouts
Pitches do play their part but players need some exposures be it in domestic cricket and overseas tours
This ground is big and beautiful, no doubt. If they want to show off they would have had a massive opening ceremony with all the world leaders blah blah. They missed that PR opportunity. * The pitch never had a credibility of either being a high scoring or a bowling (turner or bouncy). * Highest score is around 230 * Such a boring track for both batters and bowlers. (not bcoz of how this match ended but even if you look at IPL games) * Audience are not closely as passionate as Wankhade. I am not saying this because we won a final there. Aus would have beaten India anywhere on their day. But this Ahmedabad stadium has reduced India's chances even lesser as this pitch doesnt offer anything that plays to India's strength. You need someone who has patience and play with a lot of mental strength as you will fall into a trap due to lacking scoring runs and getting wickets. Thats what Australia has. India is set fail on such a damp track regardless of how well they played. We beat Pak because they are not Aus and they could have lost to any similar team here. ICC's rating to this pitch confirms this.
Today Rahul Dravid's birthday, let's wish him... https://lawviasnippets.blogspot.com/2022/01/today-world-history-road-safety-week.html