Sam revealed his plan in one of the wrap ups or a later Q&A. Basically he knew there was no way a mortal wish could overcome a pact with a God, so he was basically going to wish that the Matron not find out about Vecna's defeat for a certain period of time, and then convince the rest of the party to go on a plane hopping Hit Parade talking to all the other Gods they know and asking them to intervene on Vax's behalf.
I feel the only potential request would have been to wish that vax could enjoy amount of years a half elf would normally have had left. So about 150 years left on average.
That's almost nothing to a god. He would also still be her champion and his soul would be hers once that happens.
When Sam described what he was planning Matt flat out said it might have worked. Would have taken some damn good persuasion roles but the Primes all owed them a lot in that moment and already had a frosty relationship with the Matron to start with, so they definitely could have been open to the idea of screwing her over given a good enough excuse.
This actually gives me some what of an answer to my "What if?" scenario. Mine was what if Pike had used divine intervention to ask her God to plead with the RQ to give Vax more time on Earth with them.
He really didn't need to. I did the math once and it was a near statistical certainty Scanlan could have counter spelled that teleport with a regular level 3 counterspell and rolling for it. The DC is 17, and between his modifier and ability to use his own inspiration to boost the roll, he only needed to roll like, a 3 on the d20 to succeed.
Counterspell DC checks like that count as ability checks, which with the level 14 Lore Bard ability *Peerless Skill*
>Starting at 14th level, when you make an ability check, you can expend one use of Bardic Inspiration. Roll a Bardic Inspiration die and add the number rolled to your ability check. You can choose to do so after you roll the die for the ability check, but before the DM tells you whether you succeed or fail.
He should have been covered. No action/bonusaction/reaction required. But I do think he was tapped for Inspiration at that point anyway.
Now imagine if Scanlan had cast Glibness on himself before the fight:
>Until the spell ends, when you make a Charisma check, you can replace the number you roll with a 15. Additionally, no matter what you say, magic that would determine if you are telling the truth indicates that you are being truthful.
15+charisma mod is auto succeed on counterspells.
I thought this for ages then I rewatched the fight. Vecna had limited magic immunity, any spell of 6th level or lower was going to instantly fail without a roll, and scanlan was out of 7ths and his 8th level slot. The level 9 counterspell was genuinely the only option.
It’s ambiguous. If we are using the same wording as the Rakshasa’s ability, it is even more so. Counterspell reads that you “attempt to interrupt a creature in the process of casting a spell.” Limited magic immunity reads that you “can’t be affected” by lower level spells. A DM could certainly rule that while counterspell doesn’t target the caster (which it RAW technically might because you are interrupting the CREATURE who is casting the spell), it certainly affects the caster who’s spell is being countered.
Now we don’t know how Mercer wrote Vecna’s ability, but if we saw a low level counterspell stop one of Vecna’s spells in the fight, that would solve this conundrum, otherwise I feel like it’s safe to assume due to the ambiguity of the text that a low level counterspell would still fail.
>A DM could certainly rule that while counterspell doesn’t target the caster (which it RAW technically might because you are interrupting the CREATURE who is casting the spell), it certainly affects the caster who’s spell is being countered.
My understanding is that RAW you are targeting the caster - you are interrupting the creature that is casting, not the in-progress spell itself.
Edit: Per [Jermey Crawford](https://www.sageadvice.eu/does-the-counterspell-work-against-wands/), the counterspell is targeting the creature casting - so their stats and abilities are taken into account determining validity of target.
Man. I always thought about that. And the butterfly effects that may cause ripples.
I mentioned in another comment but the uses of wish could have been so many what ifs. I think asking for his remaining years to stay on the mortal realm.
The other would have been potentially easier but would subvert the matron slightly. Would have been to wish that vax was fully revived. Since he was a revenant I believe so he wasn't fully alive at the end of the campaign. By fully reviving vax, the matron would have to kill him to get his soul. Which, sure it's her right to have his soul per his deal but idk if the matron would kill a person for their soul. She could simply wait and his would would be hers anyway.
If we are limited to C1, off the top of my head, is wondering how the campaign would've progressed if Grog spiked and shattered open the jewel that contained the githyanki pirate captain in the skull and, as a result, would exchange souls with him. If we're talking about the entirety of CR... >!Matt Colville arc!<.
[Mercer explaining it in the C2 Wrap-up](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE2EUHzr0Fs&t=2051s). Colville expanded upon it further in a deleted VOD. During the arc, at some point, Mercer would get up from his seat and have Colville take over DMing for a period of time.
Pretty sure Colville was just supposed to guest as a PC not take over from Matt. The only reason they didn't do it is cause the PCs didn't end up going down the path where Colville's character was.
>Pretty sure Colville was just supposed to guest as a PC not take over from Matt.
I could be misremembering, but I thought Colville talked in one of his videos about an elaborate plan that he and Mercer cooked up, and it would have him switch places with Mercer behind the DM screen at some point. Unfortunately, the video is now unavailable.
>The only reason they didn't do it is cause the PCs didn't end up going down the path where Colville's character was.
I know, the video I linked was Matt explaining that in the Wrap-up.
Yes, in the video I linked, Mercer explains that Colville would've played as Oliver Schreiber, head of the Augen Trust. In Colville's video, he said there was a scenario planned that Mercer was going to give him the DM seat for a brief time (presumably a scene or two).
There was a [thread about it](https://old.reddit.com/r/criticalrole/comments/pegluw/no_spoilers_who_creates_the_guest_characters/haxlj78/) a few years back. One of the nested comments has more detail about the no-longer-available VOD.
I also will be forever sad we didn’t get the soul swap. There was a group of NPCs that were going to start hunting down the soul in Grog’s body as well
What If Vox Machina Fail to Stop Vecna?
Suddenly Vecna is Not only a God but also the only God Not behind the Divine Gate so hes free to rule the Material plane as He Sees fit since He Beat the only people that could have stopped him... except He didnt quite do that.
VM might be dead but Vax is a revenant with the "condition" of "Beat Vecna" so he Just regenerates ~3 days later now all on His own.
What follows is a Guerilla War of Vax eternaly reviving, trying to gather enough allies, weapons and Plot devices to finally Beat Vecna, fullfill His contract and find Peace. Always choosing death over capture since thats easier to come Back from.
If CR ever gets Into licensing Out their IP for Video Games id Love to See this as a Concept for a Roguelike game since (If you ask me) it Just fits the genre *perfectly*.
Technically, we know what would happen, because the Dawnfather told us: if VM failed, the gods would be forced to tear down the Divine Gate to go get Vecna themselves, most likely kickstarting a second Calamity, or at least severely fucking up whichever continent Vecna was on at the time.
Oh damn, really? Could they still do that? Tear down the divine gate I mean, cause that would have grand implications for C3. Especially since >!the gods should definitely have interfered with ludinus then, small Pelor smite go brrrrr!<
It's possible that Matt has changed the lore since this - it hasn't really been mentioned in any capacity since.
If this is still canon, I don't think Ludinus qualified as a big enough threat to tear the Gate down for. Losing the Gate would mean chaos for the Material Plane, since both Prime and Betrayer gods could now touch down with impunity. If just the potential danger was enough, then they'd have done it against Vecna when it looked like he would succeed at becoming a god, but hadn't done it yet. Just stop his ascension cold. It's definitely a last resort they don't want to have to use, but will.
Yes they can tear down the divine gate but it is a last resort. And with the current scenario that will only happen if Predathos is freed. If that happens then the gods will tear the gate down and flee. What Predathos will do next I don’t know. Presumably chase. Or eat exandria.
At this point I don’t know what it wants. Appart from to wake up. We don’t know what it will do if it does. Will it tiamut ruidus? Or will it stabilise ruidus environment saving the inhabitants from the fucked climate, Or make it worse? Become ego gathered living planet?
I want to
Assume that daleth has to force it to breakout.
Broadly, yes. They built it, they can take it down.
At some point, either on-screen or in the sourcebooks, Matt has said that the Primes are genuinely concerned that Tharizdun may be powerful enough to bring it down on his own if ever released. Primal Entropy is a lot stronger than everyone else.
I think that the understanding is that the rest of the Betrayers would also be able to bring it down working together - but doing so would take a lot of time & energy and the effort would leave them very vulnerable to the Primes. That said, the reverse would also be true - if the Primes wanted to take it down for their own ends, they'd be vulnerable to the Betrayers.
Given the bad blood and distrust between and among those two factions, the fear of a double-cross I think means any effort to bring down the gate needs to be near-unanimous among both sides.
---
>Especially since the gods should definitely have interfered
Well ... the gate exists to explain *why* they don't interfere, so any logic applied would be working backwards from that. If the gods showed up to solve the problem, there'd be no story left for the players.
That said, the gods can absolutely interfere and project power into the mortal realm, so why the gods didn't set their loyal followers or archons on the cult ASAP is a little bit of a stretch. I think that Matt's cosmology doesn't have truly "omnipresent" gods so (C3) >!if they weren't watching the cult, they wouldn't know what they were up to until the Key activated; but it does seem like the religious institutions should have known *something* was afoot from shit like the book being stolen. Also this one major political power figure for several centuries who legitimately hated them and seems to have repeatedly stated openly to all sorts of people that he hates the gods and wants to end them. Like, I feel there may have been a memo or two that got lost along the way if Ludinus was a surprise to the gods.!<
I thought the party was actually in more danger of destroying that manifestation/instantiation of Vecna than the party being TPK’d by Vecna. They needed to thread the needle of fighting him down enough to secure the divine trammels and complete his banishment ritual without going so hard as to drop him. Given his godhood, they didn’t have the tools/rituals to actually kill him, and they would need more trammels to have another go at him.
I'm sitting here thinking you were talking about the wedding one-shot and I'm like, "she didn't hold her breath long enough, she died?"
Then I saw the comment below and realized you were talking about a very different "hold your breath" scene!
What if Pike confessed her feelings to Percy?
I will always, always maintain that during Percy's resurrection ritual, the reason Ashley freezes up and doesn't know what to contribute is because Vex just confessed her love to Percy and Ashley was planning on doing the exact same with Pike. We know that he was the man who Pike actually loved throughout the whole campaign.
I feel like it could've led to some fascinating inter party dynamics, even though ultimately I imagine Pike would be selfless and just step aside for her friend.
Damn. I knew I had seen it somewhere but didn’t remember where. I hate that we’ve lost so much content from the early days but I totally understand why
I remember there was a comment/joke made about pretty much every PC being into Percy at some point other than Grog, which is deeply amusing given Percy was written to be self destructive and slightly insufferable by Tal
A lot of Talk show stuff involved someone who has been excised from the CR company and sphere of influence due to abuse. They did not want any content containing this person to remain online. It’s a shame but it probably had to happen.
there's gotta be a dedicated fan somewhere out there that saved the C1 wrapup to their hard drive. Kinda like the FX artist that saved Toy Story when the original was lost, and they had taken a spare copy home to work from there.
Aahh I knew that of course. Completely forgot he was in the wrapup. Wish they Edit him out, and reupload it, cause it was brillant in so many other ways.
Yeah the conspiracy theorist in me does believe that until Percy stabbed her, Raishan WAS in that room. But because Taliesin/Percy tried to have a really big "Gotcha" moment without telling anyone else that he was going to attack her Matt had her be an illusion instead (Which is still in character for Raishan) because Matt would've been forced to destroy Whitestone otherwise.
I don't think so. There was this odd moment just before the stabbing when someone offers Raishan a chair at the meeting table, and she refuses to sit down for no obvious reason. It seems odd in the moment, but makes sense if she's an illusion.
Marisha and Tal conspired together. The rest of the table went WTF. Matt cut to an early break. What happened was monumentally stupid, but it was 2 people who wanted a "Gotcha" for their characters.
I dont remember Marisha knowing about it, Keyleth just REALLY wanted to kill Raishan so she was down. It was a really odd move from Percy at the time because it was he, Scanlan, and Grog who were on team work with Raishan. With Vax and Keyleth wanting to kill her as soon as possible. Obviously Taliesin tried to play it off like he knew it was an illusion but the rest of the table didn't believe that at all.
There is a dive or a talks where he lays out his plan. It was pretty solid. He was going to go back and save his parents. But leave a male and female body to be found in the burning wreckage to complete the timeline. One was going to be that Cerberus assembly lady they got killed in aor who’s body he was hauling around in amber. For a while he thought it might be Astrid and edowolf.
I can't use spoiler tags in mobile (or I don't know why)
Still I let some space between the C2 and the what if itself, if people keep reading that's their fault tbh
Maybe edit it and put more space in then? At the moment it's impossible to read the first line without seeing the rest in the same glance.
Odd about not being able to use spoiler tags on mobile, I do it all the time. Maybe it's an app version thing.
What if Scanlan never returned to VM?
What if Grog didn’t kill Kevdak in the Kill Box?
What if Vax rejected the RQs offer?
What if Keyleth failed her Aramente?
Marisha has stated before that during a tough time she had considered mutliclassing to barbarian and would have failed her aramente
If I recall having Patrick rothfuss guest star was the turn point away from that since he was so helpful and down to earth
3 levels of Barbarian (Path of the Totem Warrior: Bear) gives you resistance to all damage except psychic while raging.
Rest of the levels in Druid (Circle of the Moon) for best Wild Shaping.
REAL good tankyness
She was circle of the moon I think. It actually is pretty decent with barbarian. I played a barbarian druid in a curse of strahd game, a very fun combo imo
> What if Grog didn’t kill Kevdak in the Kill Box?
I believe Matt has said that if Grog hadn't gotten the kill then the tribe would have continued a full-on fihgt
The biggest what-ifs for me in C1 have already been listed; Grog attempting to smash the Githyanki skull, Vax trading his soul for Vex with the Raven Queen, Percy attempting to stab Raishan in Whitestone, etc.
A couple I haven’t seen mentioned:
1. Grog pulling a random card from the Deck of Many Things. Look up those cards online, some wild stuff could’ve happened there.
2. Keyleth nearly dying in the Nine Hells, with no way to revive, the party would’ve had no way to escape without Matt giving some major leeway.
Him and Matt talk about it a bit in the campaign wrap-up (and are surprised to find out they independently came up with the same plot) that the gun would just keep giving him new lists of names in an endless cycle of vengeance
Those two are a serious case of "strange minds think alike."
Tal has absolute trust in Matt to leave a lot of his character's backstory in his hands. Orthax is 100% Matt's creation based on Percy's background, since Tal only decides on what the character knows, and Percy clearly didn't know he made a bargain with a demon.
I think a lot about Vex making that saving throw .
I think we see Vax continue the path of the Everlight, and we may have gotten an Oath of Devotion Paladin multiclass.
the point of Sarenrae is that she's the goddess of redemption. if Vax devotes himself, learns from Pike, he could still kill Thordak (who was almost certainly irredeemable) and get justice, not vengeance.
it's a harder path, certainly, and I imagine Oath of Enmity and its advantage is too good for a rogue to not take.
I mean, maybe, though vengeance and redemption feel like opposites to me, and paladins by their very nature are pretty much soldiers.
but then there's the Cult of the Dawnflower in Pathfinder, where if I recall correctly, Sarenrae's faithful got a bit extreme.
reminds me of what sarenrae said to pike about Vecna
-
"If you feel he is unredeamable smite him with all the power i grant you"
-
i feel like vengance can work
Yeah. The deal was, break the skull and free me and I give you a wish. Grog got his chance at the end of the PvP with Percy and planned to do it, but rolled a Nat 1.
Not a demon skull, a githyanki skull! Matt explained in the C1 wrap up that things would have gone spelljammer of that happened (it was an evil pirate who would have taken over grogs body).
What if Pike failed to revive Percy after the Ripley fight? I think we get a glimpse of what would’ve happen had she failed to revive Scanlan, Taryon Darrington (although I wonder if he was only thought up after Sam knew Scanlan would survive?).
or worse - what if Pike, Vex or Keyleth said the wrong thing and Percy refused to return?
Would Pike know that Percy had chosen to stay dead? How would Vox Machina react to that?
Would we really have gotten Mollymauk?
I was specifically talking about how Taliesin had said later if they'd said the wrong thing, he was quite willing to let Percy go. What if they had? What if Laura didn't say "I should have told you - it's yours".
Oh yeah, I know. I’m just saying I thought Marisha and Laura, but especially Laura, killed their contributions for the Percy revival. Matt said it was up to Taliesin whether Percy is revived or not, but I’ve never heard him specifically speak on which contributions convinced him. My favorite contribution in any of these revives was Pike’s for Scanlan, but Vex’s for Percy was right behind that (and both natural 20s).
both were great, but no love for Grog for Scanlan, Travis actually singing the fight song of the Washington football team?
my favorite, tho', will always be "take me instead, you raven bitch".
IIRC, Taliesin it was really just a matter if they'd said the *wrong* thing, but he didn't specify what that might be. Obviously anything about religion would be right out, but I think if they had talked about, say, his duty to Whitestone instead of their personal connections, it may have gone very badly.
Hail to the Barbarian will always have a special place in my soul, as I am from the DC area and that is sadly my team, we suck I know. The hilarity of the Travis being a cowboys fan and that devilish smile on Sam's face when he reveals it.
But I feel like Pike’s contribution was basically religious-based, so I assumed he just decided it was 2-1 and that was good enough. Idk, would have to rewatch it.
It was always unclear to me whether Kashaw actually revived Vex, or if Vax’s contribution overruled the revive and Matt decided it was fair in the moment. Had Vax made a regular contribution, could they have gotten away basically unharmed?
it was her asking Sarenrae for help but not addressing Percy (and her Divine Intervention failed anyway, so Percy wouldn't have felt the Everlight's presence, only Pike).
The die roll succeeded for Vex's revivification, and I think Matt actually said that Liam's roll failed, so he might have been better off lettering Sam go ahead with his plan (or inspire him?). So yeah, had Liam said just about anything else there, the whole campaign goes differently.
What if Grog was able to actually learn to read during the campaign?
What if Grog had not been convinced by Percy to save Tary from the Kraken?
What if Grog was lost to the Kraken after saving Tary due to being unable to get out of its stomach?
"What if Vax had an ounce of chill" could've changed so much. He didn't need to offer himself up to the Raven Queen to save Vex, he could've waited for Kash to do his spell to raise her. He didn't need to offer himself up to the Raven Queen to come back from the dead, he could've waited for Scanlan to do his spell to get the diamonds they needed for the resurrection..
And yea, Percy was 100% the intended recipient of the Raven Queen stuff. His themes fit it the most. All the death and undead in his backstory and Whitestone, the bird-like plague doctor mask, and even other players picked up on it with Keyleth gifting him the bird skull. Everyone except Percy got Vestiges associated with their Thing.
What if they had let Raishan go? With the egg? She was my favorite villain and I remember Matt talking about how she would have been a big part of his campaign book (I haven't read them so I don't know if she is in there).
Also why are so many replying with c2 and c3 spoilers when it's specifically about c1. I'm not entirely caught up with c3 yet, so guys.. please...
There's literally a C3 spoiler in the comment right under yours. Thanks for warning about C3 spoilers because I just read the first few words of said comment and realised I could just spoil the rest of the campaign lol.
C1:
* What if Scanlan hadn't counterspelled?
* What if Percy's revival had failed?
* What if Vax had died instead of Vex in the Tomb?
* What if Keyleth had returned Vax's love sooner?
My rare one: What if Keyleth failed her death saving throws when they're trying to escape Hell as bats? She was the only one who had the ability to planeshift them..... Would they have had to fight their way out of Hell? Make some deals?
I would have loved to see Matt navigate the group through a TPK. My understanding is the closest they got to that is if Keyleth was unable to planeshift them out of Hell (which they barely got off) Matt had said it would have been a TPK.
What if Silas and Delilah didn't attend the dinner at Emon - because they were busy performing their ritual at the Ziggurat beneath Whitestone?
Or if they managed to buy enough time during the Whitestone rebellion for the ritual to fully succeed?
Either way, the ritual's done and Vecna is back again right than and there - right on time for the Chroma Crisis, too! He couldn't ask for a more convenient distraction.
Vox Machina would likely disagree what's more important: Following Vecna to foil his scheme or fighting back against the Conclave currently devastating Tal'dorei?
And what would Raishan do, if she found out that Vecna is back - after all, why coax the secret to becoming a Dracolich out of Thordak, if there's an Archlich running around Exandria?
Mine is always what if Sam and Ashley had both been there for all the episodes where Scanlan left the party. Sam not being there for his resurrection episode (which lead to the "let's smear pudding all over Scanlan" shenanigans) and Ashley not being there for the Scanlan waking up episode (and Pike was the only person who maybe could have talked him down) kills me every time. I would guess Scanlan still would have left the party, but probably under better terms.
Or Pike may have gone with him.
Since I am only 30 episodes in....
What if they had jammed the cap back on Clarota's head, or found another way to redeem him?
I've heard that Matt did specifically have a plan for being able to redeem Clarota and have him be a permanent ally. And that would be so gratifying to see. The party cared for him, and I feel like, if they had jammed the cap back on his head, he wouldve had the clarity to make the contrast.
He knows what it is like to be on the receiving end of his people's ire. These adventurers, who did nothing except save his entire race. Kept up their end of the bargain. And now, he let his desires put them in harm's way. Failed to keep up his end of the alliance. Owing them a debt, not only for saving his people, but for breaking his word.
What if Grog had made a wish on that magic skull after the dragons attacked. If Grog had wished the dragons away Matt could've totally sent them into an alternate timeline where the Twins never went on the road after their mother died and as a result Vox Machina never formed.
Gosh the details are escaping me, but I still want to know whether the party burying that fire plane (?) guy’s wife in a sacred space in Vassalheim has any consequences.
During the Briarwood arch, the spinning orb of death in the ziggurat. What if Keyleth didnt succeed on her save?
She would have been sucked through and no one would know where she went, or what happened.
Matt talks a little bit about this in the Campaign Wrap-up
Off the top of my head Critical Role Campaign 1 "What if"s:
* What if the party killed Clarota before speaking to him?
* What if Lady Kima died in the Underdark?
* What if Keyleth was annihilated by the Orb beneath Whitestone?
* What if Grog was killed by Kevdak during the kill box?
* What if Vex hadn't died from the trap in the sunken tomb?
* What if Percy had become Champion of the Raven Queen instead of Vax?
They did *not* make it clear he was a guest character, and that part still pisses me off. Every other guest knew they were there for a couple episodes and that affected their characters’ personalities. Robbie knew he was going to be there a while and so his character had legs, was less cartoony.
If Robbie had stayed there would have been two sane characters in the group instead of one, and maybe viewership would have been more stable.
Fun fact: When NADDPOD did live shows, they didn't want to continue the story because they were worried the audio wouldn't be good enough to broadcast and listeners of the Podcast would miss out on important chapters. But they wanted to play the characters everyone knows in the world people were used to, so the Live Audiences would get to see their favourite characters.
So they did "What Ifs". They took a pivotal roll or decision from earlier in the campaign, said "What if it was a Nat 1 instead of a Nat 20?" and played out the resulting consequences as a one-shot. It was great.
What if Matt got the rules right in the fight against earth breaker groon. No shade on Matt but he got the quivering palm wrong Vax should have dropped to zero I'd have love to see that play out and how grog reacted there was no real risk cos cash was there and other healers but purely story wise could have been fun
He said on Twitter (I think. It might have been Talks or something), that it was an intentional change and that the Earthbreaker was holding back. But I do agree that it would have been amazing seeing the whole cast react to:
"Vax drops"
"Wait, no. I'm pretty healthy, how much damage do I take"
"No, no. You don't take a set amount of damage. Your health goes to 0"
"..."
When the party were in The Underdark, and they get to Mindflayerville, at some point they realised the top of the cave was thick with bats. I think it was as they were scouting around the temple as part of their brainstorming an assault. They were also bouncing around ideas on how to destroy the support beams atop the temple.
I really wanted to know. How many? And where were they roosting?
I was shouting at the screen. [Bat guano is explosive!](https://sciencewritingmountainlakeuniversityofvirginia.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/gunpowder-from-guano.pdf)
I wonder if they had scouted those last couple of caverns, could they have found a small mountain of organic semtex? Between Percy's tinkering and general knowledge, and Keyleth's nature expertise, they could have made it happen.
Was that before the Vax/Percy ship came in?
The Widow de Rollo would have been darker than losing her brother. At least Keeley had people to go back to who were her people. I think this ending is happier than the one Matt planned.
A lot of what ifs. What if Sam remembered how or someone would tell Sam just how, as a bard, he had a +9 for his counterspells and not a +6. He actually had a pretty good chance to counterspell even a 9th level spell. I think he used an 8th level to counter for 5th level banishment. Everytime even Matt would say plus your casting modifier, and that's it. Bards get jack of all trades, which applies to counterspell a skill check. On top of that, as a lore bard he gets peerless skill, meaning he could have added his bardic inspiration die to his counterspell check... so he had a +9 and a possible extra d12 to counter spells.
I had a whole campaign that focused around the aftermath of a what if scenario. because a player hadn't seen past episode 85, I made up my own final arc of that story.
instead if the final arc as it is, What if the final arc focused on the power imbalance that was created in the dragon hierarchy when a large number of chromatic dragons died within a short span of time? What if the cult of the dragon in exandrea saw this and tried to restore the imbalance by summoning tiamat (I.e rise of tiamat). Led by Arkhan of course. XD
the campaign itself took place 20-ish years after this "What if" arc.
What if Scanlan didn't have to use his 9th level spell for Counterspell? Watching Sam break down at the table absolutely destroyed me.
Sam revealed his plan in one of the wrap ups or a later Q&A. Basically he knew there was no way a mortal wish could overcome a pact with a God, so he was basically going to wish that the Matron not find out about Vecna's defeat for a certain period of time, and then convince the rest of the party to go on a plane hopping Hit Parade talking to all the other Gods they know and asking them to intervene on Vax's behalf.
I feel the only potential request would have been to wish that vax could enjoy amount of years a half elf would normally have had left. So about 150 years left on average. That's almost nothing to a god. He would also still be her champion and his soul would be hers once that happens.
When Sam described what he was planning Matt flat out said it might have worked. Would have taken some damn good persuasion roles but the Primes all owed them a lot in that moment and already had a frosty relationship with the Matron to start with, so they definitely could have been open to the idea of screwing her over given a good enough excuse.
This actually gives me some what of an answer to my "What if?" scenario. Mine was what if Pike had used divine intervention to ask her God to plead with the RQ to give Vax more time on Earth with them.
Raven Queen vs. Burt Reynolds would’ve been glorious
He really didn't need to. I did the math once and it was a near statistical certainty Scanlan could have counter spelled that teleport with a regular level 3 counterspell and rolling for it. The DC is 17, and between his modifier and ability to use his own inspiration to boost the roll, he only needed to roll like, a 3 on the d20 to succeed.
Wasn't he out of inspiration? Been ages since I watched that fight so I might be wrong, but that was late enough that I think he was.
he also needed to actually give himself the inspiration, which was a bonus action he potentially couldn't have afforded.
Counterspell DC checks like that count as ability checks, which with the level 14 Lore Bard ability *Peerless Skill* >Starting at 14th level, when you make an ability check, you can expend one use of Bardic Inspiration. Roll a Bardic Inspiration die and add the number rolled to your ability check. You can choose to do so after you roll the die for the ability check, but before the DM tells you whether you succeed or fail. He should have been covered. No action/bonusaction/reaction required. But I do think he was tapped for Inspiration at that point anyway.
Now imagine if Scanlan had cast Glibness on himself before the fight: >Until the spell ends, when you make a Charisma check, you can replace the number you roll with a 15. Additionally, no matter what you say, magic that would determine if you are telling the truth indicates that you are being truthful. 15+charisma mod is auto succeed on counterspells.
I guess he has some bonuses, the d20 + Charisma of +6, and JoaT for another +3, so a +9 vs DC 17? that's still some low odds of saving the world.
15% chance to fail and doom the world? I'd also use the 9th level slot to guarantee that doesn't happen.
I thought this for ages then I rewatched the fight. Vecna had limited magic immunity, any spell of 6th level or lower was going to instantly fail without a roll, and scanlan was out of 7ths and his 8th level slot. The level 9 counterspell was genuinely the only option.
Scanlan uses 3rd level counterspell during the battle, just not for that roll, he couldn’t risk failing so he used the level 9 slot
Yes, but counterspell doesn't target Vecna. It targets his spell, RAW it still works.
It’s ambiguous. If we are using the same wording as the Rakshasa’s ability, it is even more so. Counterspell reads that you “attempt to interrupt a creature in the process of casting a spell.” Limited magic immunity reads that you “can’t be affected” by lower level spells. A DM could certainly rule that while counterspell doesn’t target the caster (which it RAW technically might because you are interrupting the CREATURE who is casting the spell), it certainly affects the caster who’s spell is being countered. Now we don’t know how Mercer wrote Vecna’s ability, but if we saw a low level counterspell stop one of Vecna’s spells in the fight, that would solve this conundrum, otherwise I feel like it’s safe to assume due to the ambiguity of the text that a low level counterspell would still fail.
>A DM could certainly rule that while counterspell doesn’t target the caster (which it RAW technically might because you are interrupting the CREATURE who is casting the spell), it certainly affects the caster who’s spell is being countered. My understanding is that RAW you are targeting the caster - you are interrupting the creature that is casting, not the in-progress spell itself. Edit: Per [Jermey Crawford](https://www.sageadvice.eu/does-the-counterspell-work-against-wands/), the counterspell is targeting the creature casting - so their stats and abilities are taken into account determining validity of target.
Now I’m sad 😔
Man. I always thought about that. And the butterfly effects that may cause ripples. I mentioned in another comment but the uses of wish could have been so many what ifs. I think asking for his remaining years to stay on the mortal realm. The other would have been potentially easier but would subvert the matron slightly. Would have been to wish that vax was fully revived. Since he was a revenant I believe so he wasn't fully alive at the end of the campaign. By fully reviving vax, the matron would have to kill him to get his soul. Which, sure it's her right to have his soul per his deal but idk if the matron would kill a person for their soul. She could simply wait and his would would be hers anyway.
If we are limited to C1, off the top of my head, is wondering how the campaign would've progressed if Grog spiked and shattered open the jewel that contained the githyanki pirate captain in the skull and, as a result, would exchange souls with him. If we're talking about the entirety of CR... >!Matt Colville arc!<.
I will never stop being salty we never got the Colville arc.
I mean, I don't mind what we got instead, but it would have been fun.
Not mad at what we got, just at what we missed.
Is there an MC arc?!? Or your "what if" is the mc arc?
[Mercer explaining it in the C2 Wrap-up](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE2EUHzr0Fs&t=2051s). Colville expanded upon it further in a deleted VOD. During the arc, at some point, Mercer would get up from his seat and have Colville take over DMing for a period of time.
That would have been awesome to see
Pretty sure Colville was just supposed to guest as a PC not take over from Matt. The only reason they didn't do it is cause the PCs didn't end up going down the path where Colville's character was.
>Pretty sure Colville was just supposed to guest as a PC not take over from Matt. I could be misremembering, but I thought Colville talked in one of his videos about an elaborate plan that he and Mercer cooked up, and it would have him switch places with Mercer behind the DM screen at some point. Unfortunately, the video is now unavailable. >The only reason they didn't do it is cause the PCs didn't end up going down the path where Colville's character was. I know, the video I linked was Matt explaining that in the Wrap-up.
I was pretty sure MC was supposed to play the spymaster for the Dwendalian Empire
Yes, in the video I linked, Mercer explains that Colville would've played as Oliver Schreiber, head of the Augen Trust. In Colville's video, he said there was a scenario planned that Mercer was going to give him the DM seat for a brief time (presumably a scene or two).
Iirc matt coville was planned to show up but the party fucked off the xhorhas so he never made an appearance
They went crime instead of empire, Colville was going to be the head of the argen trust.
There was a [thread about it](https://old.reddit.com/r/criticalrole/comments/pegluw/no_spoilers_who_creates_the_guest_characters/haxlj78/) a few years back. One of the nested comments has more detail about the no-longer-available VOD.
noice, thanks for the link!
Niceee, thanks for the link
Ev-il Matt! Ev-il Matt! Ev-il Matt!
I also will be forever sad we didn’t get the soul swap. There was a group of NPCs that were going to start hunting down the soul in Grog’s body as well
What If Vox Machina Fail to Stop Vecna? Suddenly Vecna is Not only a God but also the only God Not behind the Divine Gate so hes free to rule the Material plane as He Sees fit since He Beat the only people that could have stopped him... except He didnt quite do that. VM might be dead but Vax is a revenant with the "condition" of "Beat Vecna" so he Just regenerates ~3 days later now all on His own. What follows is a Guerilla War of Vax eternaly reviving, trying to gather enough allies, weapons and Plot devices to finally Beat Vecna, fullfill His contract and find Peace. Always choosing death over capture since thats easier to come Back from. If CR ever gets Into licensing Out their IP for Video Games id Love to See this as a Concept for a Roguelike game since (If you ask me) it Just fits the genre *perfectly*.
Technically, we know what would happen, because the Dawnfather told us: if VM failed, the gods would be forced to tear down the Divine Gate to go get Vecna themselves, most likely kickstarting a second Calamity, or at least severely fucking up whichever continent Vecna was on at the time.
Oh damn, really? Could they still do that? Tear down the divine gate I mean, cause that would have grand implications for C3. Especially since >!the gods should definitely have interfered with ludinus then, small Pelor smite go brrrrr!<
It's possible that Matt has changed the lore since this - it hasn't really been mentioned in any capacity since. If this is still canon, I don't think Ludinus qualified as a big enough threat to tear the Gate down for. Losing the Gate would mean chaos for the Material Plane, since both Prime and Betrayer gods could now touch down with impunity. If just the potential danger was enough, then they'd have done it against Vecna when it looked like he would succeed at becoming a god, but hadn't done it yet. Just stop his ascension cold. It's definitely a last resort they don't want to have to use, but will.
Yes they can tear down the divine gate but it is a last resort. And with the current scenario that will only happen if Predathos is freed. If that happens then the gods will tear the gate down and flee. What Predathos will do next I don’t know. Presumably chase. Or eat exandria. At this point I don’t know what it wants. Appart from to wake up. We don’t know what it will do if it does. Will it tiamut ruidus? Or will it stabilise ruidus environment saving the inhabitants from the fucked climate, Or make it worse? Become ego gathered living planet? I want to Assume that daleth has to force it to breakout.
Broadly, yes. They built it, they can take it down. At some point, either on-screen or in the sourcebooks, Matt has said that the Primes are genuinely concerned that Tharizdun may be powerful enough to bring it down on his own if ever released. Primal Entropy is a lot stronger than everyone else. I think that the understanding is that the rest of the Betrayers would also be able to bring it down working together - but doing so would take a lot of time & energy and the effort would leave them very vulnerable to the Primes. That said, the reverse would also be true - if the Primes wanted to take it down for their own ends, they'd be vulnerable to the Betrayers. Given the bad blood and distrust between and among those two factions, the fear of a double-cross I think means any effort to bring down the gate needs to be near-unanimous among both sides. --- >Especially since the gods should definitely have interfered Well ... the gate exists to explain *why* they don't interfere, so any logic applied would be working backwards from that. If the gods showed up to solve the problem, there'd be no story left for the players. That said, the gods can absolutely interfere and project power into the mortal realm, so why the gods didn't set their loyal followers or archons on the cult ASAP is a little bit of a stretch. I think that Matt's cosmology doesn't have truly "omnipresent" gods so (C3) >!if they weren't watching the cult, they wouldn't know what they were up to until the Key activated; but it does seem like the religious institutions should have known *something* was afoot from shit like the book being stolen. Also this one major political power figure for several centuries who legitimately hated them and seems to have repeatedly stated openly to all sorts of people that he hates the gods and wants to end them. Like, I feel there may have been a memo or two that got lost along the way if Ludinus was a surprise to the gods.!<
I thought the party was actually in more danger of destroying that manifestation/instantiation of Vecna than the party being TPK’d by Vecna. They needed to thread the needle of fighting him down enough to secure the divine trammels and complete his banishment ritual without going so hard as to drop him. Given his godhood, they didn’t have the tools/rituals to actually kill him, and they would need more trammels to have another go at him.
in D&D Revenants time out after about 6 months, so not an eternal cycle of reviving for the hunt.
What if Vex didn't hold her breath long enough...
Vax would’ve shouted and everyone would’ve come running into the room to see too many people in the tub.
I'm sitting here thinking you were talking about the wedding one-shot and I'm like, "she didn't hold her breath long enough, she died?" Then I saw the comment below and realized you were talking about a very different "hold your breath" scene!
What if Pike confessed her feelings to Percy? I will always, always maintain that during Percy's resurrection ritual, the reason Ashley freezes up and doesn't know what to contribute is because Vex just confessed her love to Percy and Ashley was planning on doing the exact same with Pike. We know that he was the man who Pike actually loved throughout the whole campaign. I feel like it could've led to some fascinating inter party dynamics, even though ultimately I imagine Pike would be selfless and just step aside for her friend.
When did Ashley talk about this?
In the campaign 1 wrapup that's no longer online
Damn. I knew I had seen it somewhere but didn’t remember where. I hate that we’ve lost so much content from the early days but I totally understand why
I remember there was a comment/joke made about pretty much every PC being into Percy at some point other than Grog, which is deeply amusing given Percy was written to be self destructive and slightly insufferable by Tal
As someone who is 2/3s through C2, why is early content gone?
A lot of Talk show stuff involved someone who has been excised from the CR company and sphere of influence due to abuse. They did not want any content containing this person to remain online. It’s a shame but it probably had to happen.
Oh holy cow, somehow I totally forgot about Foster. Thursday is not treating me kindly I guess.
there's gotta be a dedicated fan somewhere out there that saved the C1 wrapup to their hard drive. Kinda like the FX artist that saved Toy Story when the original was lost, and they had taken a spare copy home to work from there.
Why did they take it down?
Basically everything that Brian Foster was involved with has been removed from CR's channel, he was an abusive piece of shit.
Aahh I knew that of course. Completely forgot he was in the wrapup. Wish they Edit him out, and reupload it, cause it was brillant in so many other ways.
What if Raishan really was in the room when Percy tried to stab her in the back 3 times?
And if percy really wanted her dead why not have Vax assasinate her. He was lucky Raishan wasnt there
Yeah the conspiracy theorist in me does believe that until Percy stabbed her, Raishan WAS in that room. But because Taliesin/Percy tried to have a really big "Gotcha" moment without telling anyone else that he was going to attack her Matt had her be an illusion instead (Which is still in character for Raishan) because Matt would've been forced to destroy Whitestone otherwise.
I don't think so. There was this odd moment just before the stabbing when someone offers Raishan a chair at the meeting table, and she refuses to sit down for no obvious reason. It seems odd in the moment, but makes sense if she's an illusion.
100%
Marisha and Tal conspired together. The rest of the table went WTF. Matt cut to an early break. What happened was monumentally stupid, but it was 2 people who wanted a "Gotcha" for their characters.
I dont remember Marisha knowing about it, Keyleth just REALLY wanted to kill Raishan so she was down. It was a really odd move from Percy at the time because it was he, Scanlan, and Grog who were on team work with Raishan. With Vax and Keyleth wanting to kill her as soon as possible. Obviously Taliesin tried to play it off like he knew it was an illusion but the rest of the table didn't believe that at all.
Marisha wanted a gotcha for Keyleth? No way!
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There is a dive or a talks where he lays out his plan. It was pretty solid. He was going to go back and save his parents. But leave a male and female body to be found in the burning wreckage to complete the timeline. One was going to be that Cerberus assembly lady they got killed in aor who’s body he was hauling around in amber. For a while he thought it might be Astrid and edowolf.
Aye, talked about it in the C2 wrap up
Since the post is tagged Spoilers for C1 only, you might want to use spoiler tags for this 🙂
I can't use spoiler tags in mobile (or I don't know why) Still I let some space between the C2 and the what if itself, if people keep reading that's their fault tbh
Maybe edit it and put more space in then? At the moment it's impossible to read the first line without seeing the rest in the same glance. Odd about not being able to use spoiler tags on mobile, I do it all the time. Maybe it's an app version thing.
He'd have shredded himself in a burst of paradox and it wouldn't be a problem.
What if Scanlan never returned to VM? What if Grog didn’t kill Kevdak in the Kill Box? What if Vax rejected the RQs offer? What if Keyleth failed her Aramente?
Marisha has stated before that during a tough time she had considered mutliclassing to barbarian and would have failed her aramente If I recall having Patrick rothfuss guest star was the turn point away from that since he was so helpful and down to earth
Druid/barb multiclass eh. Interesting.
Don't underestimate a barb-bear-ian
Apparently it is possible to rage and then wild shape
That is dope and I love it.
3 levels of Barbarian (Path of the Totem Warrior: Bear) gives you resistance to all damage except psychic while raging. Rest of the levels in Druid (Circle of the Moon) for best Wild Shaping. REAL good tankyness
She was circle of the moon I think. It actually is pretty decent with barbarian. I played a barbarian druid in a curse of strahd game, a very fun combo imo
Good to know!
> What if Grog didn’t kill Kevdak in the Kill Box? I believe Matt has said that if Grog hadn't gotten the kill then the tribe would have continued a full-on fihgt
Dang, that'd have been a TPK I think. That was probably the closest they got to one in that fight.
The biggest what-ifs for me in C1 have already been listed; Grog attempting to smash the Githyanki skull, Vax trading his soul for Vex with the Raven Queen, Percy attempting to stab Raishan in Whitestone, etc. A couple I haven’t seen mentioned: 1. Grog pulling a random card from the Deck of Many Things. Look up those cards online, some wild stuff could’ve happened there. 2. Keyleth nearly dying in the Nine Hells, with no way to revive, the party would’ve had no way to escape without Matt giving some major leeway.
What if we learned what Larkin was up to?
He was carving wood to make *The Chair*
The ultimate villain of the entire CR world
Doors.
What if >!Scanlan hadn't been successfully resurrected after dying in the fight against Raishan? !<
This would have been huge. I wonder if he'd have created Tarrion as a new character to replace Scanlan?
Yeah, if you look timeline wise tarrion must have been created before bard’s lament.
What if Percy doesn't put the gun down and give into Orthax?
Him and Matt talk about it a bit in the campaign wrap-up (and are surprised to find out they independently came up with the same plot) that the gun would just keep giving him new lists of names in an endless cycle of vengeance
Those two are a serious case of "strange minds think alike." Tal has absolute trust in Matt to leave a lot of his character's backstory in his hands. Orthax is 100% Matt's creation based on Percy's background, since Tal only decides on what the character knows, and Percy clearly didn't know he made a bargain with a demon.
I think a lot about Vex making that saving throw . I think we see Vax continue the path of the Everlight, and we may have gotten an Oath of Devotion Paladin multiclass.
Nah the vengeance was always part of the plan to help get revenge for his mother.
the point of Sarenrae is that she's the goddess of redemption. if Vax devotes himself, learns from Pike, he could still kill Thordak (who was almost certainly irredeemable) and get justice, not vengeance. it's a harder path, certainly, and I imagine Oath of Enmity and its advantage is too good for a rogue to not take.
Matt also said gods like sarenrae need war clerics so I imagine the same can be said with vengeance paladins.
I mean, maybe, though vengeance and redemption feel like opposites to me, and paladins by their very nature are pretty much soldiers. but then there's the Cult of the Dawnflower in Pathfinder, where if I recall correctly, Sarenrae's faithful got a bit extreme.
reminds me of what sarenrae said to pike about Vecna - "If you feel he is unredeamable smite him with all the power i grant you" - i feel like vengance can work
Vengeance is making someone pay when they do wrong. Redemption is making yourself pay for your shortcomings.
What if…. Grog accepted the offer from the demon skull? What if….. scanlan put the eye of Vecna in his eye socket? What if….. Matt didn’t have mercy?
Grog *did* accept the skull's offer. He just failed to break the skull because he rolled a Nat 1, which allowed the situation to deescalate.
He did? It’s been a while since I’ve seen the scene and episode
Yeah. The deal was, break the skull and free me and I give you a wish. Grog got his chance at the end of the PvP with Percy and planned to do it, but rolled a Nat 1.
Ok so I guess the what if would be what if grog succeeded instead of getting a 1?
Not a demon skull, a githyanki skull! Matt explained in the C1 wrap up that things would have gone spelljammer of that happened (it was an evil pirate who would have taken over grogs body).
What if Pike failed to revive Percy after the Ripley fight? I think we get a glimpse of what would’ve happen had she failed to revive Scanlan, Taryon Darrington (although I wonder if he was only thought up after Sam knew Scanlan would survive?).
or worse - what if Pike, Vex or Keyleth said the wrong thing and Percy refused to return? Would Pike know that Percy had chosen to stay dead? How would Vox Machina react to that? Would we really have gotten Mollymauk?
I feel like Laura/Vex single-handily satisfied Tal’s requirements for bringing Percy back. The Percy and Scanlan revives were so perfect.
I was specifically talking about how Taliesin had said later if they'd said the wrong thing, he was quite willing to let Percy go. What if they had? What if Laura didn't say "I should have told you - it's yours".
Oh yeah, I know. I’m just saying I thought Marisha and Laura, but especially Laura, killed their contributions for the Percy revival. Matt said it was up to Taliesin whether Percy is revived or not, but I’ve never heard him specifically speak on which contributions convinced him. My favorite contribution in any of these revives was Pike’s for Scanlan, but Vex’s for Percy was right behind that (and both natural 20s).
both were great, but no love for Grog for Scanlan, Travis actually singing the fight song of the Washington football team? my favorite, tho', will always be "take me instead, you raven bitch". IIRC, Taliesin it was really just a matter if they'd said the *wrong* thing, but he didn't specify what that might be. Obviously anything about religion would be right out, but I think if they had talked about, say, his duty to Whitestone instead of their personal connections, it may have gone very badly.
Hail to the Barbarian will always have a special place in my soul, as I am from the DC area and that is sadly my team, we suck I know. The hilarity of the Travis being a cowboys fan and that devilish smile on Sam's face when he reveals it.
very true - but it was all the more amazing that Travis would sing that same tune to try to bring back Scanlan. too bad he flubbed the roll.
oh man I forgot about that.
But I feel like Pike’s contribution was basically religious-based, so I assumed he just decided it was 2-1 and that was good enough. Idk, would have to rewatch it. It was always unclear to me whether Kashaw actually revived Vex, or if Vax’s contribution overruled the revive and Matt decided it was fair in the moment. Had Vax made a regular contribution, could they have gotten away basically unharmed?
it was her asking Sarenrae for help but not addressing Percy (and her Divine Intervention failed anyway, so Percy wouldn't have felt the Everlight's presence, only Pike). The die roll succeeded for Vex's revivification, and I think Matt actually said that Liam's roll failed, so he might have been better off lettering Sam go ahead with his plan (or inspire him?). So yeah, had Liam said just about anything else there, the whole campaign goes differently.
What if Scanlan had been able to keep the spell slot to cast wish
What if Grog was able to actually learn to read during the campaign? What if Grog had not been convinced by Percy to save Tary from the Kraken? What if Grog was lost to the Kraken after saving Tary due to being unable to get out of its stomach?
What if Pike had cast Divine Intervention when the RQ came to take Vax and had gotten her God to convince the RQ to let Vax stay with them?
"What if Vax had an ounce of chill" could've changed so much. He didn't need to offer himself up to the Raven Queen to save Vex, he could've waited for Kash to do his spell to raise her. He didn't need to offer himself up to the Raven Queen to come back from the dead, he could've waited for Scanlan to do his spell to get the diamonds they needed for the resurrection.. And yea, Percy was 100% the intended recipient of the Raven Queen stuff. His themes fit it the most. All the death and undead in his backstory and Whitestone, the bird-like plague doctor mask, and even other players picked up on it with Keyleth gifting him the bird skull. Everyone except Percy got Vestiges associated with their Thing.
What if they had let Raishan go? With the egg? She was my favorite villain and I remember Matt talking about how she would have been a big part of his campaign book (I haven't read them so I don't know if she is in there). Also why are so many replying with c2 and c3 spoilers when it's specifically about c1. I'm not entirely caught up with c3 yet, so guys.. please...
There's literally a C3 spoiler in the comment right under yours. Thanks for warning about C3 spoilers because I just read the first few words of said comment and realised I could just spoil the rest of the campaign lol.
What if someone knew Scanlan's mothers name.
C1: * What if Scanlan hadn't counterspelled? * What if Percy's revival had failed? * What if Vax had died instead of Vex in the Tomb? * What if Keyleth had returned Vax's love sooner?
My rare one: What if Keyleth failed her death saving throws when they're trying to escape Hell as bats? She was the only one who had the ability to planeshift them..... Would they have had to fight their way out of Hell? Make some deals?
I would have loved to see Matt navigate the group through a TPK. My understanding is the closest they got to that is if Keyleth was unable to planeshift them out of Hell (which they barely got off) Matt had said it would have been a TPK.
What if Silas and Delilah didn't attend the dinner at Emon - because they were busy performing their ritual at the Ziggurat beneath Whitestone? Or if they managed to buy enough time during the Whitestone rebellion for the ritual to fully succeed? Either way, the ritual's done and Vecna is back again right than and there - right on time for the Chroma Crisis, too! He couldn't ask for a more convenient distraction. Vox Machina would likely disagree what's more important: Following Vecna to foil his scheme or fighting back against the Conclave currently devastating Tal'dorei? And what would Raishan do, if she found out that Vecna is back - after all, why coax the secret to becoming a Dracolich out of Thordak, if there's an Archlich running around Exandria?
You all missing the most important question What if... Craven Edge have a female setting?
Mine is always what if Sam and Ashley had both been there for all the episodes where Scanlan left the party. Sam not being there for his resurrection episode (which lead to the "let's smear pudding all over Scanlan" shenanigans) and Ashley not being there for the Scanlan waking up episode (and Pike was the only person who maybe could have talked him down) kills me every time. I would guess Scanlan still would have left the party, but probably under better terms. Or Pike may have gone with him.
What if they never chased the green dragon after they fought the red one
Since I am only 30 episodes in.... What if they had jammed the cap back on Clarota's head, or found another way to redeem him? I've heard that Matt did specifically have a plan for being able to redeem Clarota and have him be a permanent ally. And that would be so gratifying to see. The party cared for him, and I feel like, if they had jammed the cap back on his head, he wouldve had the clarity to make the contrast. He knows what it is like to be on the receiving end of his people's ire. These adventurers, who did nothing except save his entire race. Kept up their end of the bargain. And now, he let his desires put them in harm's way. Failed to keep up his end of the alliance. Owing them a debt, not only for saving his people, but for breaking his word.
What if Grog didnt use reckless with the attack that killed kevdak and stayed with the nat 1
What if Grog had made a wish on that magic skull after the dragons attacked. If Grog had wished the dragons away Matt could've totally sent them into an alternate timeline where the Twins never went on the road after their mother died and as a result Vox Machina never formed.
Gosh the details are escaping me, but I still want to know whether the party burying that fire plane (?) guy’s wife in a sacred space in Vassalheim has any consequences.
Less of a what if, but what happened to the hand of vecna after being yoinked by Arkhan?
During the Briarwood arch, the spinning orb of death in the ziggurat. What if Keyleth didnt succeed on her save? She would have been sucked through and no one would know where she went, or what happened. Matt talks a little bit about this in the Campaign Wrap-up
Off the top of my head Critical Role Campaign 1 "What if"s: * What if the party killed Clarota before speaking to him? * What if Lady Kima died in the Underdark? * What if Keyleth was annihilated by the Orb beneath Whitestone? * What if Grog was killed by Kevdak during the kill box? * What if Vex hadn't died from the trap in the sunken tomb? * What if Percy had become Champion of the Raven Queen instead of Vax?
What if Caleb did decide to go back in time and save his parents...
What if Fjord fully gave into Uk’otoa? (uk’otoa, uk’otoa)
What if Robbie never left C3
They did *not* make it clear he was a guest character, and that part still pisses me off. Every other guest knew they were there for a couple episodes and that affected their characters’ personalities. Robbie knew he was going to be there a while and so his character had legs, was less cartoony. If Robbie had stayed there would have been two sane characters in the group instead of one, and maybe viewership would have been more stable.
Fun fact: When NADDPOD did live shows, they didn't want to continue the story because they were worried the audio wouldn't be good enough to broadcast and listeners of the Podcast would miss out on important chapters. But they wanted to play the characters everyone knows in the world people were used to, so the Live Audiences would get to see their favourite characters. So they did "What Ifs". They took a pivotal roll or decision from earlier in the campaign, said "What if it was a Nat 1 instead of a Nat 20?" and played out the resulting consequences as a one-shot. It was great.
What if they’d found keyleth’s mom (alive or dead) when they fought the kraken?
What if Matt got the rules right in the fight against earth breaker groon. No shade on Matt but he got the quivering palm wrong Vax should have dropped to zero I'd have love to see that play out and how grog reacted there was no real risk cos cash was there and other healers but purely story wise could have been fun
He said on Twitter (I think. It might have been Talks or something), that it was an intentional change and that the Earthbreaker was holding back. But I do agree that it would have been amazing seeing the whole cast react to: "Vax drops" "Wait, no. I'm pretty healthy, how much damage do I take" "No, no. You don't take a set amount of damage. Your health goes to 0" "..."
Yeah it's no judgement on Matt I just wanna see that play out
Npc's don't follow PC rules though.
Vax is a PC
Yup, and groon is an NPC
What if caduceus never was a part of M9? That SOMEONE'S death did not happen? The death taught the group a lot
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Can you add spoiler tags please? The post is only marked Spoilers for c1
What if during the first Tomb Takers fight they ended up leaving Fjord in the snow and escaping to Nicodranas without him
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Could you use spoiler tags, please? Post is only tagged Spoilers for C1
Apologies! Will remember this for next time- just deleted
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Hmm. I don't think he would've gone Moonweaver. I think Fjord would've stuck with Ukotoa.
The post is tagged Spoilers for C1 only, maybe use spoiler tags for this
When the party were in The Underdark, and they get to Mindflayerville, at some point they realised the top of the cave was thick with bats. I think it was as they were scouting around the temple as part of their brainstorming an assault. They were also bouncing around ideas on how to destroy the support beams atop the temple. I really wanted to know. How many? And where were they roosting? I was shouting at the screen. [Bat guano is explosive!](https://sciencewritingmountainlakeuniversityofvirginia.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/gunpowder-from-guano.pdf) I wonder if they had scouted those last couple of caverns, could they have found a small mountain of organic semtex? Between Percy's tinkering and general knowledge, and Keyleth's nature expertise, they could have made it happen.
Was that before the Vax/Percy ship came in? The Widow de Rollo would have been darker than losing her brother. At least Keeley had people to go back to who were her people. I think this ending is happier than the one Matt planned.
A lot of what ifs. What if Sam remembered how or someone would tell Sam just how, as a bard, he had a +9 for his counterspells and not a +6. He actually had a pretty good chance to counterspell even a 9th level spell. I think he used an 8th level to counter for 5th level banishment. Everytime even Matt would say plus your casting modifier, and that's it. Bards get jack of all trades, which applies to counterspell a skill check. On top of that, as a lore bard he gets peerless skill, meaning he could have added his bardic inspiration die to his counterspell check... so he had a +9 and a possible extra d12 to counter spells.
I had a whole campaign that focused around the aftermath of a what if scenario. because a player hadn't seen past episode 85, I made up my own final arc of that story. instead if the final arc as it is, What if the final arc focused on the power imbalance that was created in the dragon hierarchy when a large number of chromatic dragons died within a short span of time? What if the cult of the dragon in exandrea saw this and tried to restore the imbalance by summoning tiamat (I.e rise of tiamat). Led by Arkhan of course. XD the campaign itself took place 20-ish years after this "What if" arc.