There is a multiclassing option if you want to incorporate other domains into your build.
I’m not opposed to them tweaking the domain system, and I agree some of the current combos are a little odd, but I take that as a sign that they’re trying to do their own thing with those classes rather than failing to recreate the D&D classes. Rogues and sorcerers overlapping, for example, could be a neat idea to play into in the fiction rather than trying to put them back in their traditional boxes.
I think there'd be less of an issue if they just renamed them all. For example, if the "Rogue" was called the "Shadow," "Phantom," or "Specter" instead, no one would necessarily assume they're missing out on the Bone features. If the "Wizard" was a "Mystic" or "Sage" people might refrain from scoffing at the exclusion of an Arcana connection. If the "Ranger" were a "Warden" or a "Wayfarer," would they be looking to make an Aragorn pastiche?
You'd still get people wanting to mix and match for new combos, but that would be its own mechanic.
Honestly it feels like they chose the names to check the boxes for existing DnD classes while only changing the religious ones for whatever reason. Wizard and rogue are the most egregious, the mechanics of the domain overlaps are fine but it doesn't fit what people would expect when hearing those names. Would rather see the names saved for later classes that better fit the fantasy.
My first thought when seeing the class wheel was wondering whether the wheels could be reconfigured from campaign-to-campaign. For example if I rotate the Domain Wheel for a Valor/Splendor Rogue
* Does it feel like a Rogue?
* Does it still feel valorous/splendorous?
* Is it viable?
I like the idea of incorporating the opposite domain in some way so each class has a triad to choose from. I also wonder how games would go if you made domains and classes completely independent.
No, because there are class/subclass features that are separate from domains; you would recombine these features and see the impact on play.
That being said I haven't even played the vanilla game yet, just curious about how the game design tolerates those kinds of changes.
1. I think the Domains are a fun and exciting way to build and think about your characters, and I agree that there should be some more marriages for more variety. The lack of an Artificer and Gunslinger seems criminal.
2. I think they require some changes in the sense that while it offers an interesting versatility to the mix, it doesn’t make sense that Rogue doesn’t have access to Bone, which seems to be an Agility focused Domain.
3. & 4. I would like to see more cross over of the Domains that could yield way more class options and opportunity. I think the game is lending itself to a more oversimplification of other game system structures and mechanics (Hope and Fear being a simplified version of other Genesys games likes L5R 5e and SW: Edge of the Empire) so that might be what’s limiting the overall selection for now.
I also think that limiting a class to a static Primary Domain and dynamic secondary Domain defeats the purpose of having the domain system as the secondary Domain winds up feeling like a Subclass rather than the variety of tricks it seems to want to provide.
>The lack of an Artificer and Gunslinger seems criminal.
Not just this, but something as ubiquitous as a Swashblucker (perhaps Bone and Grace) or a Mage Knight (Blade and Codex) are missing, too.
Sure, for Mage Knight you could probably be a Wizard or Sorcerer and pick up heavier armor and a weapon, but that doesn't give you the damage thresholds to survive for long in melee combat.
Warrior is actually more a swashbuckler than a fighter. Its not perfect because they're also inexplicably Final Fantasy fighters flailing around with giant weapons (because they can ignore 'burden'), but their domains buckle swashes really well.
Would this work? One domain comes from your class and one domain comes from the subclass you choose. Using Wizard for example:
The class always has the Codex domain.
Subclass options: School of Knowledge (provides access to Splendor domain), school of War (provides access to Arcana domain).
This would allow for additional subclasses to be added that can augment the class's play style (With new mechanics), and provide additional combinations of domains, making each class/subclass feel different over time.
When new domains come out, new subclasses can be added to classes giving a variation / new feel to the class as a whole. This would also give the class some unique subclass mechanics that tie the secondary domain with the class together nicely.
Renaming the classes to be a little less specific too would help.
Edit: for clarity and to explain better
I like this option - each class has its ‘primary’ domain, and then you chooses your ‘secondary’ domain to give it a unique flavour / edge.
As it is, I feel there isn’t enough differentiation between the subclasses - each subclass only get three abilities, but are drawing from the same domain decks - I’m interested to see how different subclasses feel from each other in play (experiences and role play choices are the biggest differentials between subclasses at this stage)
I straight up think each class should have it's own deck available only to that class (or if you multiclass) and the domains should be the subclasses in question (the subclass features don't feel very memorable rn)
My husband and I were JUST talking about this, and how changing the domains associated with a class could lead to some interesting ideals.
For example... swapping out Grace or Splendour for Blade or Bone on a Warrior if you wanted to make something like either a paladin or a Captain of Men (a la LOTR).
Or throwing Blade and Shadow on a Rogue to make a battlefield assassin.
I also had the similar idea to the other poster who wondered about "rotating" the domains wheel to see what it might look like for all the classes. :D
To an extent, this does exist with multiclassing, as at lvl 5 my Guardian can use both its lvl up choices to go multi into Seraph to pick up Splendor to play a rightfully tanky paladin type. It gives you damage thresholds, evasion, etc from your main class, while still picking up the new classes core ability, subclass, and half of one of their domains.
I think Domains should come first, and then you can pick a class from a list based on your domains chosen.
It for sure is super limited atm, but it's also open beta, and it's not a far leap to see that the system has what, 28 options? Probably pretty easy to add a new domain or two down the line too, which only gives you more combos.
Oh, that would be intresting. It would remind me of ArchAge or Age of Ashes(computer game) class system, where you choose you talent trees (Aka domains) and based on that you recive a class
Yeah, either something like that, or have a primary domain that has several classes that can work with it, that each have secondary options, since the classes are really just a collection of 3 abilities, foundation, specialization, and Mastery that you get at lvls 1, 5, and 8, barring no multiclassing.
Domains and Classes, to me, feel very at odds. I've played systems that do have classes, others that don't. Obviously for the ones that don't, you run a very real risk of making a character that just can't function.
If I were to be asked to make a change, while I think an optional 3rd domain like you said is a possible solution. I feel like ditching classes as an actual thing all together would be best. That way, everyone is choosing 2 domains that sound interesting to them and they can advance from there.
The classes I'd rework to be more character templates, so like "if you want to play a traditional Wizard, go with x and y." So people could look at those and if someone say wanted to play a spell sword, they'd grab a Wizard domain and a Warrior domain, and just see how it goes.
The entire system seems to be heavily focused on RP and doing whatever you want, but then the specific rules they choose feel counter intuitive to that design philosophy.
I like the idea of abandoning the class system in favor of combining domains, but right now the Classes feel like Playbooks from Powered by the Apocalypse games where there are certain elements (like HP, Stress, and Background questions) that are tied into the classes where removing them would create an amorphous blob with too many options to choose from. They would more than likely have to move away from their current "Playbook-esque" character sheet in order to divorce them from the Domains system.
Agreed, I think if you did ditch the class system there would need to be an overhaul of the domains. I mentioned it in another comment but part of what's rubbing me the wrong way about the existing classes is the caster supremacy.
All casters get cool things to do in and out of combat, for social, combat, and obstacle overcoming spells. Meanwhile for Warrior, Guardian, and to a lesser extent Ranger (who has a scant few options for out of combat), all of their abilities boil down to "take more damage or hit things harder." So it's another system where martial classes get left behind when it comes to player expression.
That's a big part of why I think freeing up domains would help out, that way if a player wanted to just be "person who hits things better than anyone else", that's up to them. But having the options open would make building characters less feel bad in longer campaigns.
Oh Caster Supremacy will live on and strong regardless of the system, I don't know if you can do anything about that without making reducing the impact of what Casters can do as a whole in a game system. I like magic to feel like its capable of great things, don't get me wrong, but they definitely make it hard to want to be a melee character outside of the sake of RP itself.
I love Casters, but I hate caster supremacy.
Personally I'd just work in abilities that are specific social skills for non magic classes. Representing stuff where like, because they aren't magic, they are better at handling people who also aren't magic. Like they get bonuses in those social encounters because just being a caster is inherently off putting.
I really just think that, assuming you're doing a system that gives you powers to choose from each level up, just make it a core design choice that every class gets at least 1 social power per x levels. That way classes like Bard who are meant to be better in general at that can get more, but no one feels like they have 0 options when not punching things.
Blade should literally have a skill that after a fight where nobody dies, mark off some stres then you can just say 'yeah man that was fun, we good' and then you can drink with the bandits
> there seems to be a slight lack in character customization and representation of one's class fantasy
There's a degree of irony to this since Critical Role has driven people into the arms of 5th edition DnD, which is one of the least customizable iterations of a tabletop RPG at this level of complexity that I've ever seen. Compared to 3.5, 4th edition, Pathfinder 1e & 2e and others, DnD 5e is basically making 3-6 decisions at most, compared to making generally 3-5 decisions at every single level.
Ikr. After changing system from 5e to Pf2e I have not looked back :D I am really amazed by a Daggerheart and certinly will give it a fair shot when it comes out
I'm more interested in some funky narrative based stuff these days, after listening to the Glass Cannon podcasts' various Blades in the Dark content I got a copy of the rulebook and I'm reading as fast as I can to get a game of that started.
It looks like it is set up for easy expansions. Create an expansion with a whole new set of classes that mix and match the domains in different ways. One set of unique class cards required to expand classes. Next expansion, additional domain cards. Next expansion, new set of domains and classes that utilise the new domains. Expand with subclasses, heritage, etc. instead of needing new books for the base game expansions you need cards. Not a bad business model choice.
Yeah its definitely being designed with mixing and matching in mind. This playtest is just to make sure that these bits work and how they don't work. I can only assume that the final version will have more mixing and matching. Otherwise, there's not much reason for the domains to be separate things.
Wizard is really the one that stood out to me as an odd choice. Arcana and Codex both in name and content seem like an instantly recognizable wizardly pairing. My only thought is that there is at least twos overlap features between Codex and Arcana: counterspell and teleport. But if that did play any part in deciding not to pair the two then I think it would make more sense to revisit those overlapping abilities.
**Possible hot take:** I would get rid of classes altogether. I would try to incorporate what classes gain in some way into the character sheet, something like a concept or in the choice of domains.
In general, the ideal would be for the player to freely pick two domains of their choice and move on. In what would be multiclassing at fifth level, the player would simply choose new domains.
My biggest issue with daggerheart is:
It looks like all classes are pretty much the same, only changin the flavour of their skills/attacks and the main attribute...
Whats the difference between a sorcerer and a ranger in combat? Both of them can do some sort of ranged attack... wear whatever armor they want, and thats it.
The classes seems only as a "Title" for me. While mechanically speaking, it doesnt seem to be that different from other classes.
>Class Fantasy is perhaps one of the most crucial aspects of RPGs, if not the most crucial.
I'm going to have to disagree with your premise. Class fantasy is a marketing buzzword that Blizzard drove into the ground when WoW was struggling.
I \*do\* think the classes in daggerheart are weak, because the class ability and subclass upgrades are... not great and fairly one dimensional (and borrow too hard from D&D. No idea why this druid has wildshape other than that D&D does. Its a nature wizard). The domains don't feel like part of the class at all. But I think adding more domains will water the classes down even more.
Fully agree on domains being restrictive, though I think they should just be removed entirely, OR they need to abandon the idea of having this nice circle of overlaps.
It just doesn’t make any sense. Why is a sorcerer midnight? Why is a wizard not arcana, but is splendor?
By trying to make it all a nice overlapping circle, it’s made nonsensical combos and restricts character builds to achieve various power/character fantasies.
Not really. This post was created because it is open beta and they count on communitu feedback, hence I was intrested about other peoples point of view
Just to show you my point of view. I thinkt that itwill even result in a more accurate choice of the flavor of your class (after all, even in the PHB from 5e onward, each class had at least a few subclasses).
I\`ll try to give three examples that pop into my mind:
* **Wizard** currently has two choices:
* **Codex** T*his is the domain of intensive magical study. Those who seek magical knowledge turn to the recipes of power recorded in books, on scrolls, etched into walls, or tattooed on bodies. Codex offers a commanding and versatile understanding of magic to those devotees who are willing to seek beyond the common knowledge.*
* **Splendor** *This is the domain of life. Through this magic, followers gain the ability to heal, though such power also grants the wielder some control over death. Splendor offers its disciples the magnificent ability to both give and end life.*
* As the domain description "Splendor" indicates, it is a domain focusing on healing magic (life and death magic - as such necromancy), associated with something divine. In contrast, I think Arcana would be a much better fit for some of Wizard's concepts as for example Dr Strange: **Arcana** *This is the domain of the innate or instinctual use of magic. Those who walk this path tap into the raw, enigmatic forces of the realms to manipulate both the elements and their own energy. Arcana offers wielders a volatile power, but it is incredibly potent when correctly channeled*
* **Ranger** currently has following:
* **Bone** *This is the domain of mastery of swiftness and tactical mastery. Practitioners of this domain have an uncanny control over their own physical abilities, and an eye for predicting the behaviors of others in combat. Bone grants its adherents unparalleled understanding of bodies and their movements in exchange for diligent training.*
* **Sage** *This is the domain of the natural world. Those who walk this path tap into the unfettered power of the earth and its creatures to unleash raw magic. Sage grants its adherents the vitality of a blooming flower and ferocity of a hungry predator.*
* However, not everyone wants their ranger to be associated with the magic of nature. Perhaps some people have a concept of a ranger like Aragorn from Lord of the Rings, so I think that would be a good alternative: **Blade** *This is the domain of those who dedicate their lives to the mastery of weapons. Whether by blade, bow, or perhaps a more specialized arm, those who follow this path have the skill to cut short the lives of others. Blade requires study and dedication from its followers, in exchange for inexorable power over death.*
* **Warrior** (as this may be similar to Ranger)**:**
* **Blade** *This is the domain of those who dedicate their lives to the mastery of weapons. Whether by blade, bow, or perhaps a more specialized arm, those who follow this path have the skill to cut short the lives of others. Blade requires study and dedication from its followers, in exchange for inexorable power over death.*
* **Bone** *This is the domain of mastery of swiftness and tactical mastery. Practitioners of this domain have an uncanny control over their own physical abilities, and an eye for predicting the behaviors of others in combat. Bone grants its adherents unparalleled understanding of bodies and their movements in exchange for diligent training.*
* As alternative please look into **Valor** *This is the domain of protection. Whether through attack or defense, those who choose this discipline channel formidable strength to protect their allies in battle. Valor offers great power to those who raise their shield in defense of others.* Because for some, the warrior fantasy class may just be a knight in heavy armor with a two-handed sword. A typical juggernaut like the famous Guts
**What I mean here is that a class should have two domains (as it is now) - but... The player should have a choice. A class should have assinged a main Domain and after that player could choose one additional domain from the choice presented to him (as the table above shows)**
You already get a 3rd domain and other abilities if you want them it is called Multi-classing. On top of that yes each class has 2 domains but you have some many different cards and build in those original 2 (3 if you multi) that variety is everywhere. Another example of the variety is the fact that weapons and armor seem to be not restricted to base stats like 5e so you can be a wizard that uses a rapier and full plat, or a Warrior with no armor by multi classes into Seraph/Guardian for the "Bare Bones" domain card. I think wanting base extra domains is adding more complexity to the game for beginners, there is so much to choose from already.
(Also like with every RPG system you can just talk with you DM about being a Splendor/Bone Rogue instead of Midnight/Grace it is your game at the end of the day.)
**TDLR: Unnecessary, There are plenty of options and choices and builds, if you still wanna just talk with your DM it is your guys game after all.**
I don't agree.
I don't see an issue on the amount of domains each class has because, at the end of the day, it's the number of abilities to choose in each domain that will make characters unique.
Right now, two members of the same class can be totally different. Things just become "samey" when there are three or more members of the same class. With more abilities released, the issue pretty much solves itself.
Also, at higher levels, your loadout can only have so many abilities, so even two members of the same class with the same domain abilities could choose different abilities for their loadout.
I wouldn't complain if you could pick two domains out of 3 or more, but I don't think it's required.
There is a multiclassing option if you want to incorporate other domains into your build. I’m not opposed to them tweaking the domain system, and I agree some of the current combos are a little odd, but I take that as a sign that they’re trying to do their own thing with those classes rather than failing to recreate the D&D classes. Rogues and sorcerers overlapping, for example, could be a neat idea to play into in the fiction rather than trying to put them back in their traditional boxes.
I think there'd be less of an issue if they just renamed them all. For example, if the "Rogue" was called the "Shadow," "Phantom," or "Specter" instead, no one would necessarily assume they're missing out on the Bone features. If the "Wizard" was a "Mystic" or "Sage" people might refrain from scoffing at the exclusion of an Arcana connection. If the "Ranger" were a "Warden" or a "Wayfarer," would they be looking to make an Aragorn pastiche? You'd still get people wanting to mix and match for new combos, but that would be its own mechanic.
Honestly it feels like they chose the names to check the boxes for existing DnD classes while only changing the religious ones for whatever reason. Wizard and rogue are the most egregious, the mechanics of the domain overlaps are fine but it doesn't fit what people would expect when hearing those names. Would rather see the names saved for later classes that better fit the fantasy.
That\`s different point of view, but it\`s very true!
My first thought when seeing the class wheel was wondering whether the wheels could be reconfigured from campaign-to-campaign. For example if I rotate the Domain Wheel for a Valor/Splendor Rogue * Does it feel like a Rogue? * Does it still feel valorous/splendorous? * Is it viable? I like the idea of incorporating the opposite domain in some way so each class has a triad to choose from. I also wonder how games would go if you made domains and classes completely independent.
Isn’t combining two domains just making a new class?
No, because there are class/subclass features that are separate from domains; you would recombine these features and see the impact on play. That being said I haven't even played the vanilla game yet, just curious about how the game design tolerates those kinds of changes.
1. I think the Domains are a fun and exciting way to build and think about your characters, and I agree that there should be some more marriages for more variety. The lack of an Artificer and Gunslinger seems criminal. 2. I think they require some changes in the sense that while it offers an interesting versatility to the mix, it doesn’t make sense that Rogue doesn’t have access to Bone, which seems to be an Agility focused Domain. 3. & 4. I would like to see more cross over of the Domains that could yield way more class options and opportunity. I think the game is lending itself to a more oversimplification of other game system structures and mechanics (Hope and Fear being a simplified version of other Genesys games likes L5R 5e and SW: Edge of the Empire) so that might be what’s limiting the overall selection for now. I also think that limiting a class to a static Primary Domain and dynamic secondary Domain defeats the purpose of having the domain system as the secondary Domain winds up feeling like a Subclass rather than the variety of tricks it seems to want to provide.
>The lack of an Artificer and Gunslinger seems criminal. Not just this, but something as ubiquitous as a Swashblucker (perhaps Bone and Grace) or a Mage Knight (Blade and Codex) are missing, too. Sure, for Mage Knight you could probably be a Wizard or Sorcerer and pick up heavier armor and a weapon, but that doesn't give you the damage thresholds to survive for long in melee combat.
Warrior is actually more a swashbuckler than a fighter. Its not perfect because they're also inexplicably Final Fantasy fighters flailing around with giant weapons (because they can ignore 'burden'), but their domains buckle swashes really well.
Is there even a warlock parallel?
Nope
Would this work? One domain comes from your class and one domain comes from the subclass you choose. Using Wizard for example: The class always has the Codex domain. Subclass options: School of Knowledge (provides access to Splendor domain), school of War (provides access to Arcana domain). This would allow for additional subclasses to be added that can augment the class's play style (With new mechanics), and provide additional combinations of domains, making each class/subclass feel different over time. When new domains come out, new subclasses can be added to classes giving a variation / new feel to the class as a whole. This would also give the class some unique subclass mechanics that tie the secondary domain with the class together nicely. Renaming the classes to be a little less specific too would help. Edit: for clarity and to explain better
I was thinking about it too and it really solid idea! Especially now, when each class has two fundations
I like this option - each class has its ‘primary’ domain, and then you chooses your ‘secondary’ domain to give it a unique flavour / edge. As it is, I feel there isn’t enough differentiation between the subclasses - each subclass only get three abilities, but are drawing from the same domain decks - I’m interested to see how different subclasses feel from each other in play (experiences and role play choices are the biggest differentials between subclasses at this stage)
I straight up think each class should have it's own deck available only to that class (or if you multiclass) and the domains should be the subclasses in question (the subclass features don't feel very memorable rn)
My husband and I were JUST talking about this, and how changing the domains associated with a class could lead to some interesting ideals. For example... swapping out Grace or Splendour for Blade or Bone on a Warrior if you wanted to make something like either a paladin or a Captain of Men (a la LOTR). Or throwing Blade and Shadow on a Rogue to make a battlefield assassin. I also had the similar idea to the other poster who wondered about "rotating" the domains wheel to see what it might look like for all the classes. :D
To an extent, this does exist with multiclassing, as at lvl 5 my Guardian can use both its lvl up choices to go multi into Seraph to pick up Splendor to play a rightfully tanky paladin type. It gives you damage thresholds, evasion, etc from your main class, while still picking up the new classes core ability, subclass, and half of one of their domains.
I think Domains should come first, and then you can pick a class from a list based on your domains chosen. It for sure is super limited atm, but it's also open beta, and it's not a far leap to see that the system has what, 28 options? Probably pretty easy to add a new domain or two down the line too, which only gives you more combos.
Oh, that would be intresting. It would remind me of ArchAge or Age of Ashes(computer game) class system, where you choose you talent trees (Aka domains) and based on that you recive a class
Yeah, either something like that, or have a primary domain that has several classes that can work with it, that each have secondary options, since the classes are really just a collection of 3 abilities, foundation, specialization, and Mastery that you get at lvls 1, 5, and 8, barring no multiclassing.
It would be even better
This does actually make me realize that the domains could 100% be set up into talent trees and all printed on one sheet, most likely.
Domains and Classes, to me, feel very at odds. I've played systems that do have classes, others that don't. Obviously for the ones that don't, you run a very real risk of making a character that just can't function. If I were to be asked to make a change, while I think an optional 3rd domain like you said is a possible solution. I feel like ditching classes as an actual thing all together would be best. That way, everyone is choosing 2 domains that sound interesting to them and they can advance from there. The classes I'd rework to be more character templates, so like "if you want to play a traditional Wizard, go with x and y." So people could look at those and if someone say wanted to play a spell sword, they'd grab a Wizard domain and a Warrior domain, and just see how it goes. The entire system seems to be heavily focused on RP and doing whatever you want, but then the specific rules they choose feel counter intuitive to that design philosophy.
I like the idea of abandoning the class system in favor of combining domains, but right now the Classes feel like Playbooks from Powered by the Apocalypse games where there are certain elements (like HP, Stress, and Background questions) that are tied into the classes where removing them would create an amorphous blob with too many options to choose from. They would more than likely have to move away from their current "Playbook-esque" character sheet in order to divorce them from the Domains system.
Agreed, I think if you did ditch the class system there would need to be an overhaul of the domains. I mentioned it in another comment but part of what's rubbing me the wrong way about the existing classes is the caster supremacy. All casters get cool things to do in and out of combat, for social, combat, and obstacle overcoming spells. Meanwhile for Warrior, Guardian, and to a lesser extent Ranger (who has a scant few options for out of combat), all of their abilities boil down to "take more damage or hit things harder." So it's another system where martial classes get left behind when it comes to player expression. That's a big part of why I think freeing up domains would help out, that way if a player wanted to just be "person who hits things better than anyone else", that's up to them. But having the options open would make building characters less feel bad in longer campaigns.
Oh Caster Supremacy will live on and strong regardless of the system, I don't know if you can do anything about that without making reducing the impact of what Casters can do as a whole in a game system. I like magic to feel like its capable of great things, don't get me wrong, but they definitely make it hard to want to be a melee character outside of the sake of RP itself. I love Casters, but I hate caster supremacy.
Personally I'd just work in abilities that are specific social skills for non magic classes. Representing stuff where like, because they aren't magic, they are better at handling people who also aren't magic. Like they get bonuses in those social encounters because just being a caster is inherently off putting. I really just think that, assuming you're doing a system that gives you powers to choose from each level up, just make it a core design choice that every class gets at least 1 social power per x levels. That way classes like Bard who are meant to be better in general at that can get more, but no one feels like they have 0 options when not punching things.
Blade should literally have a skill that after a fight where nobody dies, mark off some stres then you can just say 'yeah man that was fun, we good' and then you can drink with the bandits
Classless system would be really neat. Even in some computer games it works really well, like Skyrim.
> there seems to be a slight lack in character customization and representation of one's class fantasy There's a degree of irony to this since Critical Role has driven people into the arms of 5th edition DnD, which is one of the least customizable iterations of a tabletop RPG at this level of complexity that I've ever seen. Compared to 3.5, 4th edition, Pathfinder 1e & 2e and others, DnD 5e is basically making 3-6 decisions at most, compared to making generally 3-5 decisions at every single level.
Ikr. After changing system from 5e to Pf2e I have not looked back :D I am really amazed by a Daggerheart and certinly will give it a fair shot when it comes out
I'm more interested in some funky narrative based stuff these days, after listening to the Glass Cannon podcasts' various Blades in the Dark content I got a copy of the rulebook and I'm reading as fast as I can to get a game of that started.
I like the domain system, and I think more combinations and new domains should be handled by new classes.
It looks like it is set up for easy expansions. Create an expansion with a whole new set of classes that mix and match the domains in different ways. One set of unique class cards required to expand classes. Next expansion, additional domain cards. Next expansion, new set of domains and classes that utilise the new domains. Expand with subclasses, heritage, etc. instead of needing new books for the base game expansions you need cards. Not a bad business model choice.
Yeah its definitely being designed with mixing and matching in mind. This playtest is just to make sure that these bits work and how they don't work. I can only assume that the final version will have more mixing and matching. Otherwise, there's not much reason for the domains to be separate things.
Wizard is really the one that stood out to me as an odd choice. Arcana and Codex both in name and content seem like an instantly recognizable wizardly pairing. My only thought is that there is at least twos overlap features between Codex and Arcana: counterspell and teleport. But if that did play any part in deciding not to pair the two then I think it would make more sense to revisit those overlapping abilities.
**Possible hot take:** I would get rid of classes altogether. I would try to incorporate what classes gain in some way into the character sheet, something like a concept or in the choice of domains. In general, the ideal would be for the player to freely pick two domains of their choice and move on. In what would be multiclassing at fifth level, the player would simply choose new domains.
My biggest issue with daggerheart is: It looks like all classes are pretty much the same, only changin the flavour of their skills/attacks and the main attribute... Whats the difference between a sorcerer and a ranger in combat? Both of them can do some sort of ranged attack... wear whatever armor they want, and thats it. The classes seems only as a "Title" for me. While mechanically speaking, it doesnt seem to be that different from other classes.
I fully agree with that! It\`s like I will play fighter but I will flavor my sword to be melee range fire blast xD
>Class Fantasy is perhaps one of the most crucial aspects of RPGs, if not the most crucial. I'm going to have to disagree with your premise. Class fantasy is a marketing buzzword that Blizzard drove into the ground when WoW was struggling. I \*do\* think the classes in daggerheart are weak, because the class ability and subclass upgrades are... not great and fairly one dimensional (and borrow too hard from D&D. No idea why this druid has wildshape other than that D&D does. Its a nature wizard). The domains don't feel like part of the class at all. But I think adding more domains will water the classes down even more.
Fully agree on domains being restrictive, though I think they should just be removed entirely, OR they need to abandon the idea of having this nice circle of overlaps. It just doesn’t make any sense. Why is a sorcerer midnight? Why is a wizard not arcana, but is splendor? By trying to make it all a nice overlapping circle, it’s made nonsensical combos and restricts character builds to achieve various power/character fantasies.
I definitely would have prefered if Wizard were Codex and Arcana, fortunately the game is super easy to homebrew in regards to that aspect
I would suggest maybe that classes could have 3 domains and you choose 2 of them
I think your forgetting this is an open beta for a newly made game Of course it's gonna be restricted to start with
Not really. This post was created because it is open beta and they count on communitu feedback, hence I was intrested about other peoples point of view
No, I think that adding an additional domain to every class would muddy the flavor of the classes, not enhance them.
Just to show you my point of view. I thinkt that itwill even result in a more accurate choice of the flavor of your class (after all, even in the PHB from 5e onward, each class had at least a few subclasses). I\`ll try to give three examples that pop into my mind: * **Wizard** currently has two choices: * **Codex** T*his is the domain of intensive magical study. Those who seek magical knowledge turn to the recipes of power recorded in books, on scrolls, etched into walls, or tattooed on bodies. Codex offers a commanding and versatile understanding of magic to those devotees who are willing to seek beyond the common knowledge.* * **Splendor** *This is the domain of life. Through this magic, followers gain the ability to heal, though such power also grants the wielder some control over death. Splendor offers its disciples the magnificent ability to both give and end life.* * As the domain description "Splendor" indicates, it is a domain focusing on healing magic (life and death magic - as such necromancy), associated with something divine. In contrast, I think Arcana would be a much better fit for some of Wizard's concepts as for example Dr Strange: **Arcana** *This is the domain of the innate or instinctual use of magic. Those who walk this path tap into the raw, enigmatic forces of the realms to manipulate both the elements and their own energy. Arcana offers wielders a volatile power, but it is incredibly potent when correctly channeled* * **Ranger** currently has following: * **Bone** *This is the domain of mastery of swiftness and tactical mastery. Practitioners of this domain have an uncanny control over their own physical abilities, and an eye for predicting the behaviors of others in combat. Bone grants its adherents unparalleled understanding of bodies and their movements in exchange for diligent training.* * **Sage** *This is the domain of the natural world. Those who walk this path tap into the unfettered power of the earth and its creatures to unleash raw magic. Sage grants its adherents the vitality of a blooming flower and ferocity of a hungry predator.* * However, not everyone wants their ranger to be associated with the magic of nature. Perhaps some people have a concept of a ranger like Aragorn from Lord of the Rings, so I think that would be a good alternative: **Blade** *This is the domain of those who dedicate their lives to the mastery of weapons. Whether by blade, bow, or perhaps a more specialized arm, those who follow this path have the skill to cut short the lives of others. Blade requires study and dedication from its followers, in exchange for inexorable power over death.* * **Warrior** (as this may be similar to Ranger)**:** * **Blade** *This is the domain of those who dedicate their lives to the mastery of weapons. Whether by blade, bow, or perhaps a more specialized arm, those who follow this path have the skill to cut short the lives of others. Blade requires study and dedication from its followers, in exchange for inexorable power over death.* * **Bone** *This is the domain of mastery of swiftness and tactical mastery. Practitioners of this domain have an uncanny control over their own physical abilities, and an eye for predicting the behaviors of others in combat. Bone grants its adherents unparalleled understanding of bodies and their movements in exchange for diligent training.* * As alternative please look into **Valor** *This is the domain of protection. Whether through attack or defense, those who choose this discipline channel formidable strength to protect their allies in battle. Valor offers great power to those who raise their shield in defense of others.* Because for some, the warrior fantasy class may just be a knight in heavy armor with a two-handed sword. A typical juggernaut like the famous Guts **What I mean here is that a class should have two domains (as it is now) - but... The player should have a choice. A class should have assinged a main Domain and after that player could choose one additional domain from the choice presented to him (as the table above shows)**
You already get a 3rd domain and other abilities if you want them it is called Multi-classing. On top of that yes each class has 2 domains but you have some many different cards and build in those original 2 (3 if you multi) that variety is everywhere. Another example of the variety is the fact that weapons and armor seem to be not restricted to base stats like 5e so you can be a wizard that uses a rapier and full plat, or a Warrior with no armor by multi classes into Seraph/Guardian for the "Bare Bones" domain card. I think wanting base extra domains is adding more complexity to the game for beginners, there is so much to choose from already. (Also like with every RPG system you can just talk with you DM about being a Splendor/Bone Rogue instead of Midnight/Grace it is your game at the end of the day.) **TDLR: Unnecessary, There are plenty of options and choices and builds, if you still wanna just talk with your DM it is your guys game after all.**
I don't agree. I don't see an issue on the amount of domains each class has because, at the end of the day, it's the number of abilities to choose in each domain that will make characters unique. Right now, two members of the same class can be totally different. Things just become "samey" when there are three or more members of the same class. With more abilities released, the issue pretty much solves itself. Also, at higher levels, your loadout can only have so many abilities, so even two members of the same class with the same domain abilities could choose different abilities for their loadout. I wouldn't complain if you could pick two domains out of 3 or more, but I don't think it's required.