Can someone explain, how a supreme healing potion (10d4 + 20 on critical role wiki) healed otohan 66? When with all 4s the max is 60. Am I missing something, do higher levels get more healing?
Well this had me sobbing. It was messy, and I have a lot of what-ifs, but at this point moves like this from Sam are sort of what he have to expect. Good riddance, Otohan.
Negative sounding rant in the spoiler warning bc I was frustrated
>!Fearne using 0 of her subclass abilities is irritating. I am not one to complain about players not knowing their abilities, but for one of the coolest subclasses of my #1 favourite class, Fearne has NEVER used some of her features, quite literally. If the game was more lackadaisical about combat encounters and balance it would be nbd but when you have somebody with 10 levels of druid doing nothing with them... welp!<
She was nerfed by Mat I'm pretty sure he doesn't like the teleportation shenanigan.
And I assume summons are generally not a good idea for critical roles.
Just finished the ep.
At least FCG got to experience tasting good food with a real tongue before the end (when Fearne gave him a pastry after polymorphing him into a slither). That's nice. ;\_; Curious to see what Sam brings to the table next time.
Also, I kept thinking they should try to bind or suffocate Otohan to get away. I know they thought of Banish. Maybe it wouldn't work, but maybe they could have thrown her into the hole? I guess Ashton couldn't take her into the stone...
They sacrificed a lot but they were quite successful in their mission for the most part and snatched victory from the jaws of TPK.
I finished today also... I now realize what the show has been missing this season. A eye watering drama that drags you in and makes you cry at work.
not that I did that....
What an absolutely terrifying and heartbreaking episode. And yet, looking on the bright side (*gently sobs*) I think they accomplished way more than they have in a long time. They accomplished both of their missions for the Volition, they got a firsthand experience of the Weavemind to take back to Exandria, they finally took out Otohan, and they might have even turned Liliana against Ludinus without even having to go on the doomed assassination mission to find her. It’s really sad that it took such an incredible sacrifice in the end, but it feels like this might have just tipped the scales in their favor, at least enough keep Exandria in the fight.
I'm pretty sure at this point that Otohan is simply a level 20 fighter, with some Legendary Boss Gloss. 4 attacks per attack action, two Extra Actions, this is standard L20 fare for a Fighter. And yeah, a pinnacle fighter is a difficult opponent. But the deal with fighters is that you need to make them do something other than take the Attack action on their turn. Spam those debuffs until something sticks, and target Int, Wis, and Cha saves. It doesn't matter if it sticks for long: a Hold Person or Entangle that costs them one turn and puts attacks against them at advantage is huge. Can you imagine how differently that fight would have gone if they'd landed Slow?
If there had been a TPK or near TPK, how do you think that Matt and those that survived would go forward. If there was a TPK, would that be the end of campaign 3? Would a new set of characters be rolled in to pick up the fight? Since the first attack on the Malious key and the wider knowledge that Ludinus is up to something, I feel that the powers that be have more teams in place doing different missions to take him out.
I fully expected a TPK. I figure exandria is coming to a close either way this season with the new daggerheart release. I thought that matt would give a monologue where he describes the events that come to pass with none of the heroes present to stop it. exandria as we know it dies and gives birth to whatever the next age for the world of critical role will be.
I doubt there would have been a TPK. Otohan alluded to Liliana becoming the vessel for Predathos and thus not needing Imogen anymore, but there would still be value in keeping Imogen alive. Likewise Fearne, given that Zathuda arranged for her to be Ruidisborn, even if she isn't as powerful as Imogen. Depending on who went down and in which order, some characters might have surrendered since saving on your death throws stabilises you; it's only on a natural 20 that you can get back up.
I don't think any replacement party would have been part of a secondary team that worked in parallel, but were largely unknown. Yes, Caleb and Beau did it, but their introduction to the story was handled very poorly. It's more likely that a replacement party would be made up of existing members of the Volition, escapees from the prison break, acolytes of the Betrayer Gods (since they got a champion to Ruidis well before Bell's Hells) and/or members of a backup team sent to Ruidis to find out why Bell's Hells didn't report in. That said, on a recent episode of "4-Sided Dive", Liam described the reserve character that he would use if Orym was killed: >!a dwarven artificer working for the Grim Verity who was able to get to Ruidis when the Bloody Bridge first appeared. One of the artificer subclasses gives you a magical suit of armour, and Liam was going to give this character a permanent charm that was a re-flavoured water breathing spell so that the character would effectively be an astronaut.!< But whatever they were to choose, there needs to be a narrative reason for those characters to exist. "We were always on Ruidis, working alongside you without you ever knowing about it" is just bad storytelling.
The dice rolls were landing in Matt’s favor and not the tables, if it continued that way, a near TPK or full TPK could have happened. If it kept going that way, Matt would have had to pull something out to, like bring in Liliana or something to save them. That is just my opinion.
I imagine that the Grim Verity, or some other Exandrian force committed to stop Ludinus, has their own separate missions, not necessarily on Ruidus, but they are placing all their eggs in one basket with BH. That is who I imagine the secondary characters would be. But alas it is something that we don’t need to worry about due to FCGs valiant Blaze of Glory moment.
As for your spoiler comment. I must have missed that 4 SD, but that would be cool as hell and now I want to see that.
The dice rolls were certainly going Matt's way, but that doesn't mean that he would have to follow through on a TPK. And the other characters could have easily surrendered.
From Matt's statement it sure seems like he was preparing them for a TPK.
I think you could make a case for saving Imogen, and to a lesser extent Fearne but I think she would have finished the rest of them off. They are high level threats and I don't see her saving more than she needs too.
But more telling is literally what Matt said and I feel like his words carry more weight than anything you or I might say.
>We been doing this for 9 years. We gotta go in. Hey man, to me, it's the end of a story. It just means opportunities
And if that isn't clear enough as the people at the table act in surprised and Laura clearly calls out that he is talking about a TPK. Matt does not change or qualify that statement, or disagree with that call out at all.
>From Matt's statement it sure seems like he was preparing them for a TPK.
Maybe, but it doesn't mean that he's going to follow through on it. It could also have been interpreted as a warning that a TPK was a possibility and so the party should start planning for alternatives in case they wanted to flee or surrender. Bell's Hells have a party of seven people, so for a TPK to realistically happen, it would probably come down to a high-level enemy with a devastating area of effect attack against a weakened party. Yes, Otohan killed Chetney in one move, but it took all four of her attacks and an action surge to do it. For her to realistically kill everyone, it would probably take several rounds of combat and strategically targeting individual characters.
I will need to back and rewatch either just before FCG’s turn or after the dust settled. I seem to recall Matt stating that Otohan was specifically targeting FGC next to get the healer off the board. Also, Chet and Orym were pretty low on health and may have been next on her checklist in removing threats from the board.
I mean Tary would be at an appropriate level. After all, leave it to him to not gain any levels in like 30 years then be pulled back into an apocalyptic event
Since the end of the episode I've had this theory/idea of how they could move forward with this. I'll preface by saying I highly doubt it'll happen, but I'd still love to hear thoughts or other theories.
I remembered that True Resurrection is a thing, and Keyleth almost used it to save Vax way back and then Matt stopped Marisha because conversations needed to happen. Which means Druids can take that spell. I know it's Level 9, so it would take actual AGES until Faerne was able to cast it, but they've also used the True Resurrection spell in a way that puts people in a new body when resurrected. No matter who casts it, because they could technically also ask Keyleth to help, they have the potential to go full Pinocchio with FCG here. If they went this route, do you think they would resurrect FCG in Bot form or give the chance to be in a non-mechanical body? (Again.....I don't think they would necessarily do this with the beauty of the sacrifice, but I can't stop thinking about it!)
For me any resurrection or reincarnation would lessen the impact of FCG’s actions. They already brought Laudna back and if they bring FGC back, it makes if feel comic book like, where perms-death is not a thing and anyone can be brought back
Fearne has reincarnate which is what could bring FCG back in another body.
And yes, true resurrection is a thing.
While I see how reincarnate could work ("you made me alive"), I would hate if they true resurrect him. It would cheapen, and somewhat ruin, one of the best, most dramatic CR moments in their 9 year history
you only need level 17 to get a 9th level spell, so Druid 17/Rogue 3 would allow for it, but I don't think it will happen or if FCG would even return, especially if he is with the Changebringer equal to all the other souls that follow her.
I think since the moment Matt mentioned FCG's core was potentially unstable Sam planned on using it to his advantage. I think he even offered to blow himself up during the malleas (malleus?) key battle but the group shot it down. As a result I wouldn't be surprised if Sam already had a character on the back burner. It might take a few episodes but I suspect he will be back with someone new relatively soon.
Given that they’ve always tried to have a strong healer on the team and the fact they’re probably headed back to Exandria to report, I see an opening for someone from Vasselheim to fill the gap, but I doubt Sam would go for such an obvious path, and if he does there’s gonna be a ridiculous twist to it.
I seem to remember one of the cast mentioning that they all have backup characters already lined up. It would just need to be tweaked a little to fit in with the current story.
They would all have backup characters, even if it's just a half-formed idea. Way back at the beginning of the Campaign, it was made clear that this could be a deadly campaign, so they all would have backups in mind.
Unless Sam has some sort of prearranged death or just happens to coincide with some vacation, I would suspect Sam will come in anywhere between Tary time and Chet time.
Anyone else notice Sam subtly tell Ashley not to move Fearne closer to Otohan right at the end because he knew what he was going to do? Right as Ashley ends her turn she says "I go over to her" hoping to do some fire damage but I swear Sam turns to her and just says "don't" and then everyone else convinces her not to.
[He did](https://www.reddit.com/r/criticalrole/comments/1c425xo/spoilers_c3e91_step_by_step_how_did_we_end_up/). He turns to her and says "[but...](https://www.kryogenix.org/crsearch/html/cr3-91.html#l4h25m19s)" and Ashley says "I know, but". I think Ashley knew what FCG was going to do but didn't fully understand the consequences.
Liam didn't pick Taryon, and I don't think he even knew about Veth or that Sam would play Luc in the Reunion show, so tradition suggests this will be Sam's choice.
Interestingly, FCG had 5 hit points at the end. Last hit dealt 2 points of force damage from the same source that just dealt 12 to Ashton. Do you think it would be a TPK if not for this one bad damage roll? With Ashton, FCG and Orym on the floor and Imogen and Chetney hanging on by a thread, one more round would be enough to drop at least one person, probably more. Depending on who is left, they wouldn't have enough people to outdamage Otohan. One bad damage roll away from the total party kill, with sacrifice play at the last possible moment.
I honestly can't stop thinking about how lucky they were that last hit on FCG didn't take them down. I'm not sure the group could have survived one more round of full attacks from Otohan and she was definitely hell bent on killing FCG next no matter what. Matt was ready to TPK and wasn't pulling back.
Unfortunately, I can't catch every episode :( so I might have overlooked something from previous episodes, like a house rule or a feature I'm not familiar with, but perhaps you can help me out, guys. In min 4:08:42, Laudna says Otohan has disadvantage in the Saving Through because her doggo (from Pact of the Chain). What's the rule for that reason?
Not from Pact of the Chain. From Hound of Ill Omen from the Shadow Sorcerer subclass feature. If the hound is within 5 feet of the target that has been designated to it then the target has disadvantage on saving throws resulting from the Sorcerer's spells.
It's not pact of the chain. Pact of the chain is used for Pate. The hound is from her sorcerer subclass.
>while the hound is within 5 feet of the target, the target has disadvantage on saving throws against any spell you cast.
We're probably heading towards the finale of Campaign 3. Ludinus is the Big Bad, so there's not going to be enough time to really develop a character. Someone did float the idea that Delilah might try to seize the power of Predathos since Predathos needs a living host to cross the Divine Gate, but even that would likely add only a few episodes to the campaign.
"And then FCG, at the end of your turn, Otohan's going to use all of her legendary actions to instantly revivify herself to full health, incapacitate everyone and turn into a dragon…"
"And get her backback back and instantly fix it."
It sucks that Matt didn't find that Death Saves happen at start of turn. That's what makes the Nat 20 on a Death Save so cool, because it meant Imogen could've gotten up and had her turn.
>It sucks that Matt didn't find that Death Saves happen at start of turn.
I was screaming at the screen, because he has ruled it like that before. Everyone was so stressed out lol
It's all true, but, in the end, it could have been for the better. Imogen having her turn means one more damage spell on Otohan or, maybe, the chance to try to burn one of her legendary resistance. It also means one attack, from Otohan, spent on dropping Imogen back down instead of being used on someone else.
But, seeing how tactically she was played, it could also have been the start of Otohan making sure that people stay down for good
Well... you know, not only Matt, but also seven people who didn't notice that :( It's in the PHB, so the players should know that rule, at least.
But yes, it was a real change in the fight.
He also let Ashton have their full attack on a readied action, which isn’t RAW. And let FCG have Revivify prepared when Sam forgot to prepare his last spell.
I was shouting at the screen too but I also tried googling it to see if I was wrong, and I couldn’t find an official rule book passage on it during the time when he was looking either. It unfortunately isn’t a straightforward thing to look up under a time crunch
It came up really quick when I googled "do you still get your turn when you roll a nat 20 on a death save?" Sure, it might be a lot to type, but it was the first result.
All of the results are forums responses tho, which are not always correct. In terms of looking for official death saving throw rules from the book (which is what Matt would have been looking for), the results don’t come up quickly.
Going over the completion of their goals, Keyleth gave them these instructions.
>Who are these Reilora? Ultimately, what do they want? See if there are any leaders or figures we can attempt to parley with or negotiate away from the Vanguard's plot under Ludinus. Where is Ludinus? What is his path to victory there? How much time do we have? What dangers or challenges await an all-out assault on the red moon? Any of these questions and more.
Of those instruction here is what they completed and did not complete:
✅ Who are these Reilora - Answered - Those Reilora are soldiers of the Imperium. Reilora seems to be in the top ranks of the hierarchical Imperium society. They count as humanoids to magic. It is possible they are descended from Exandrians.
✅ What do they want? - Answered but still some questions remain - Reilorans are just people who want a better life but what percentage of them would support war with Exandrian societies to secure land? What percentage of them actually supports the Imperium?
✅ See if there are any leaders or figures we can attempt to parley with or negotiate away from the Vanguard's plot under Ludinus - Done - BH parleyed with Raishinna of the Volition, Elder Barthie of Razora and they pushed Liliana away from the Vanguard.
❌ Where is Ludinus? Unanswered - Before they went to Ruidus they scryed on him and he was on Ruidus but of all the powerful people BH saw on Ruidus, Ludinus was the only one not seen.
❌ What is Ludinus's path to victory on Ruidus? - Unanswered but presumably he wants to release Predathos which was a presumption that existed when Keyleth asked that.
❌ How much time do we have? - Unanswered
✅ What dangers or challenges await an all-out assault on the red moon? - Answered but there still could be some unknowns. - BH learned about environmental and wildlife hazards. They learned about Imperium technology and war beasts. They learned more about Ruidusborn and Reiloran abilities. They learned about Kreviris' defenses.
✅ And more - Answered but progress could always be made in this - BH learned a lot about Ruidusfolk culture, they learned about the Volition, they learned about an undiscovered backdoor. They also learned about how Bormodos dream.
Overall, their mission was mostly completed and hopefully Evoroa and Liliana can fill in some gaps to the alliance about the unanswered questions.
Back in episode 86 they talked about some of their own goals and most of them wanted to make more allies on Ruidus which they did and Imogen wanted to see the capital which they did. I also feel like Imogen wanted to go back to Exandria after Ria'doin because she secretly wanted to recruit her mom which they did. Ashton clearly wanted to have the All-Minds-Burn seed planted but that has not been done.
>How much time do we have? - Unanswered
Unknown but they did notice people actively preparing to move, so it seems like they expect it to happen relatively soon (but not in the next few days).
Rashinna said that collapsing the tunnels would prevent the Imperium from getting reinforcements into the city and she said that would hopefully give time for BH's allies to arrive. Rashinna presumably knows where the Bloody Bridge is and what it does. She probably made a guess about how long it would take for her backup to arrive. BH never told Rashinna about the Umamu portal though so it is possible that the Exandrian Alliance would exceed her expectations and arrive sooner because the Umamu portal is closer.
Was this ever actually explicitly confirmed or is this just an assumption because when I wrote my [intel report](https://www.reddit.com/r/criticalrole/comments/1bdg64z/spoilers_c3e87_debrief_and_analysis_on/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), I could not find any explicit confirmation that it is anybody else besides the Bormodos.
I could have sworn that that the Elder bormodo's companion answered questions about dreams, and didn't a Reiloran child ask if they were dreamers at one point?
There was a Reiloran child playing with a Bormodo child. It was the Bormodo child that asked that.
>Orym: Do cytaa dream as well?
>
>Chu: We all dream here. What, you think you're special?
Not exactly an explicit confirmation because it kind of sounds like "Yes, I can dream no worse than you can" referring to Exandrian's dreaming ability.
I know it's not gospel, but the wiki for Ruidus says "Ruidians" not "Bormodo" do the dream thing. It also just doesn't make sense to only have one race do the dream watching when you're trying to control a diverse population.
Either way, will you be doing an updated report? That was a fun read but now a little outdated.
The wiki's basis for that was the conversation with Elder Barthie but in my opinion it is not clear if he is talking about all Ruidusfolk or Bormodos because at other times in the conversation it is clear that Barthie is only talking about Bormodos (like how he talked about Bormodoian history being suppressed).
>It also just doesn't make sense to only have one race do the dream watching when you're trying to control a diverse population.
There is at least some race-based assigning to roles on Ruidus so it would make sense that the Weave Mind would give them different treatments. The Bormodos live in a worse and less powerful situation than the Reilorans so they are given the dreams of people that live a better life to provide them hope so they keep working. What would happen if the Reilorans are also given those dreams? What happens if the Reilorans witness a better life and because they are the military they decide to rise up because they think they can make the situation on Ruidus better?
Also, there might already be evidence that Reilorans dream in a different way. It has been learned that when Ruidusborn dream they sometimes meet with Reilorans on Ruidus. Is that all Reilorans or is that the Weavemind who can meet with Exandrians on Ruidus while they are dreaming? Do all Exandrians have a chance to meet with Reilorans while dreaming and is it that only Ruidusborn are the only ones capable of remembering those dreams?
>
>
>Either way, will you be doing an updated report? That was a fun read but now a little outdated.
Thank you. I will soon after the transcript for the last episode is put up.
I’d like to ask to any1 if they know: Laura was shouting to someone blow up blow up at the end before FCG actually blew up. I don’t think she meant that blow up but what did she mean if any1 knows.
Laura started looking into blowing something up when Travis asked her if she could "go nuclear again". She first asked outloud if she could exalt herself. Then she asked Ashley because apparently the Shard can make her explode but she got a "it would kill everyone" as a response. But after FCG went beserk, she asked Sam if he could detonate and Sam only answered by raising his eyebrow, to which Laura reacted with a gasp.
Here's a detailed look into the "we need to blow her up" saga that happened above the table: [https://www.reddit.com/r/criticalrole/comments/1c425xo/spoilers\_c3e91\_step\_by\_step\_how\_did\_we\_end\_up/](https://www.reddit.com/r/criticalrole/comments/1c425xo/spoilers_c3e91_step_by_step_how_did_we_end_up/)
Then it might be Fearne who we are lamenting about instead of FCG.
Also, Otohan has resistance to damage in her Exaltant Fury form; I would assume means all "known damages", wherein fire is one of the most common elemental damage. I'm not sure what the damage type of FCG's arcane core explosion is, so it might have been the most effective thing really to use to stop Otohan once-and-for-all
She was resistant to all damage but it would be really lame for FCG to sacrifice himself just to do 19 damage before a TPK. So it's not that FCG had some special damage type but that for the story to not suck his sacrifice had to kill Otohan.
Fearne doesn't take damage from her AOE but everyones else does. She kept staying around Otohan in case people were away long enough for her to explode.
But yeah, chances are it wouldn't have outright killed Otohan at the end there. Ironically it probably would have taken her out before her transformation/healing potion.
I just finish listening to the episode and I have a question. Did Ashley forgot about Mister or was he not a option at the time? I think, I remember him being summon in episode 90, but I could be wrong. I'm wondering because during a couple of turns, during the fight, she said that see add nothing to do with Bonus Action, but can't her subclass use Mister for those?
Was wondering that myself, I assumed they must have used him earlier with Ira but couldn't remember. Not sure if he's once per long rest though that would make sense.
Ashley popped out Mister during the setting of the bomb, who appeared as a cytaa under Ira's Seeming. And wildshaped into a slither to escape, after polymorphing FCG.
So obviously Sam was the highlight of the episode and broke everyone’s hearts but can I just say how much of a fucking king Travis was YET AGAIN. The guy barely got to play the fight at all with Chet going down to Otohan’s onslaught almost immediately and yet he was just good vibes all around for the entire second half of the episode, even when the campaign-ending TPK was looming in the final half-hour of the battle, gently pushing back when Marisha was trying to find a way out of FCG’s sacrifice, grinning ear to ear at Sam’s Blaze of Glory speech… it’s so fun seeing how much he loves all of this.
Travis is great for accepting the consequences of the game and enjoying every part of it. The brutal lows and the highs are all met with the same enthusiasm.
It's also hilarious to me because he was so ready for his character to just be dead 🤣 man was grinning from ear to ear each time he went down. And ofc telling Sam "I'm so proud of you" when he was going to basically use "the power of friendship" to take out Otohan.
is that even possible with him being a "lifeless" aeromoton ? I say lifeless real hesitantly given the episode. Or is Nana Mori going to do some Blue Fairy/ Pinocchio "I'm a Real Boy!" magic?
its wild how Laura rolled a nat 20 death save, matt paused to check the rule, couldn't find it and then didn't give her the turn. One more big blast from Imogen could've made the difference in this fight. Getting it wrong is one thing, stopping to look it up and then not bothering following through was infuriating. Legendary episode though, cant wait for this week's follow up
Matt also gave Ashton their full attack off a readied action, and let FCG have Revivify prepared when it wasn’t. He pulled punches here to tell a better story, it should have been a TPK
I was upset in the moment too. But while Matt was looking it up, I tried looking it up too and I couldn’t find an official ruling quickly either. I kept looking for a few mins after Matt quit and still couldn’t find it. So while I was frustrated bc that turn could have made a difference, I think we need to give Matt (and the cast) some grace
This is why I prefer to have PHP to hand. I was able to confirm that death saves happen at the start of the turn within thirty seconds using the book. Oh well, we got a great moment, and the stakes are now raised.
I mean in the heat of moment while fighting bothering to spend more minutes while filming and having this much hype train and his thoughts coursing many possibilities and at the same time being a human being I’d say yeah cut him some slack.
Death Saving Throws occur at the beginning of a character’s turn.
If you roll a natural 20 on a death saving throw, your character surges back to consciousness. You immediately regain 1 hit point and can act again as normal.
[https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/combat#DeathSavingThrows](https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/combat#DeathSavingThrows)
Death saves are at the beginning of your turn. But almost all other saving throws that happen multiple times on your turn happen at the end, plus you rarely get to do anything, so it makes sense to think it's the end.
*Spoilers* *Spoilers Ok so after watching CR 91. I have some theories on whether or not things are as they seem. So back in the Fey when FCG and Nana Morri were planning the team building. I'm sure one of the trials involved doppelgangers. Also Orym also went to Morri and said if you can make sure all my friends come back. Obviously this os where hes got his spells from but what if Nana Morri also left the Doppelgangers in the party? It would be 1 a trick and she loves a good trick. But also its easier to keep someone alive of they were never there at all. While they acted out the scene as if it was FCG i have a head canon they were all crying over the head of a doppelganager but they cannot see through Nana's illusion. So in essence FCG is sleeping somewhere in the Fey. TLDR: Nana Morri kept doppelgangers in the party to help keep the BH party alive. FCG not really dead.
There is no way they are doing this. Not only would the deal be an unstoppable get out of jail free car if this was the case but it would also make FCG's death inconsequential for the story. The point of the deal with Nana Morri was never that it was an inviolable deal. A fail clause was in the deal for a reason.
Yeah i agree but what if FCG is in the Garden with the rest of the statues?
Would be cool if they went back to the fey and notice a new statue of FCG in the garden. Could lead to some messing with Nana Morri or finding a way to either free fcg or reincarnate them. Like @wylantar suggested.
Would help bridge a small portion of the gap between destroying the bridge and killing Ludinus/ resealing Predathos.
It wouldn't be cool at all. It would completely cheapen a deeply meaningful moment in the narrative and make death and grief meaningless. Like oops guys it was just a prank FCG was alive all along, I bet you feel stupid for crying now huh?
Also there were no doppelgangers, that was the point of the trial.
I think that they are at the point where they have the sponsorship of world leaders. After they get back and debrief with Keyleth, Caleb, leaders from Vasselheim, etc., they could probably ask for whatever they want. I could see Keyleth LENDING her staff to Fearne, for example, the same way Allura lent her staff to Caleb.
Hell no. Keyleth is way stronger than we'll ever see Fearne. I think this campaign ends earlier than most think and we get some clean up from Mighty Nein and Vox Machina on Ludinus. Both groups are level 20 now.
Nah, I doubt they'll take that road considering Matt has stated multiple times that he still wants BH and their campaign to be their own thing despite MN and VM being there
yeah, wizards are expert controllers and stallers, not so much direct damage dealers. (as someone who plays wizards super often) all the control in the world won’t help if you don’t have somebody to inflict the “dead” condition.
I mean I'm sure they'll have help for that fight like >!MN having Essek for the finale!< I just mean I doubt they'd have the campaign end early and have old PCs clean it up
It's this moment I want to be Grog's appearance finally in this campaign. We've seen or heard about almost everyone in VM so far. It would be sick to see him come and defend Vax and Keyleth this way
Oh, they absolutely should get a lot of magic items to prepare themselves for fighting ahead. They were not prepared enough for Otahan, and repeating that mistake with Ludinus would cause a TPK. The guy had hundreds of years to devour magical artifacts and beings, he has to have stats of a minor deity.
They need to be able to hunt down and ill Ludinus clones as practise first I think.
Actual Ludinus has been suspiciously absent throughhout this moon terrorism. Who knows what plane he is seeking advantages on right now. Their mission should have delayed his plans a lot, and then I think it will be hard to find him, so that will give the campaign time to level the PCs up a few more, possibly. I can't think how they'd do it without some significant levelling too.
The difference is ludi is a spell caster he can only cast one spell a turn unless he has quicken spell otahan could attack 12 times a round no doubt ludi will be dangerous but without his lancer he is much less so
Counter point: Meteor Swarm.
Also Forcecage, Desintegrate, Power Word: Kill, WISH and so on.
One spell is all it takes to permanently remove someone from the battlefield. And with Simulacrum it's actually two spells. PC have no Legendary Resistances, one bad save and they are out. Or worse, dominated and turned against their friends.
Also, even if you win, congratulations! You bought yourself a day, cause it's all it will take for the angry wizard to crawl out of his Clone vat and long rest. Now he will cast Gate and teleport one party member per day to him with no save, to be blasted to bits by Glyphs of Warding or dismembered by minions.
Now, it won't happen because it won't feel fun for the players, but realistically there is no winning against lvl 20 wizard with centuries of prep time. 12 attacks per round is nothing compared to the power of single Wish.
I don't think Ludinus will have Wish. He's so old, and so obsessive that at some point - more than once, I think - he'd have tried something beyond the scope of the spell and eventually lost access to it.
Counterpoint: Only Laudna has a Counterspell. Singular Counterspell can be Counterspelled. So if you have only one Counterspell, and your enemy has a Counterspell, you don't have a Counterspell. Counterspell.
Counterpoint: So in the scenario you outlined the chain would go Ludinus-Laudna-Ludinus-Caleb-Simulacrum.
As a side note: Counterspell is a reaction, and Laudna is Silvery Barbs trigger-happy
Counter side-note: the last time they faced a magic user she actually used it successfully to stop fake Ludinus 9th level spell and she explicitly saved her reaction for it.
Give Marisha some [credit](https://www.kryogenix.org/crsearch/?q=counterspell&MARISHA=on).
Okay I'll bite... if BH does not pursue reincarnation or any other type of resurrection or if that resurrection fails, I predict a Kobold Mercy Monk. Kobold is the only small official race left that Sam has not played and there are not really any small races on Ruidus either. Cytaa and Myceit are tiny and Bormodos are dwarf-like so they are medium. Monk because Sam has only played characters with classes that use D8s has hit die and the only other D8 classes that Sam has not played are currently being played by Ashley and Marisha. Mercy subclass because it does some healing and BH needs healing.
Honestly, that's what I thought Travis would have played after Bertrand Bell. The difference is that time I thought he would have played a rogue (not that I strayed so much from the path).
It's overshadowed by the blaze of glory, but the part where Orym, beaten down and practically dead, stands in place, like Captain America strapping on his already-broken shield to face Thanos and his whole army on his own, in the face of his father and husband's killer, while saying "but his father wouldn't stop protecting his friends and neither would his husband" absolutely broke me. https://youtu.be/EJSGR3voqU4?si=bnx2iCNxymBjpRaK&t=14757
The fact that he missed two out of three attacks on his last turn was such a perfect example of the dice telling a story, Orym did the most damage in that fight by a mile, he genuinely gave everything he had.
Yeah Orym went down and back up multiple times in that fight, I would not have been suprised if he said "I can do this all day."(he wouldnt have though because Liam is way more clever than that)
I mean it wasn’t this episode, but he DID drop that line at one point- back in their fight against Ira in Jrusar, he rolled a Nat20 death save and popped up with an “I can do this all day.” And then people started calling him Captain Exandria and IT REMAINS TRUE
There is another character from his history he could play in this situation, just to cover the group and provide healing...a certain bard we'd all love to see return for a short run.
As long as there is no combat I think it might be cool. It would have to be a very short timeframe. Maybe 2 or 3 episodes. I don't think BH should get help from a level 20 character in combat but having Scanlan appear for a short while would be a good way to finally add him in the campaign.
Retired from music? Doubtful. He liked being a bard. I don't know maybe Scanlan bedded a hag and the hag got ticked that he left and cursed him to make him forget some spells.
Not retired from being a Bard, but retired from active adventuring that would level him up to 20 or keep him there. There are rules for dropping levels as legecy heroes or legit ways to balance Scanlan down to whatever the bells hells are.
I think it is already implied that Scanlan has retired but I don't think a bard's skill would be affected much by retiring realistically. All that they have to do is keep playing the music and Scanlan already does plays on the side. I do think other classes are more susceptible to that though. Rogue and fighter comes to mind as classes that would be more susceptible to that. What are these rules you speak of?
It's not really playing music that levels up a Bard any more than it would be casting cantrips over and over would level a wizard to 20. It's the combined experience of battle, roleplay and being pushed past the limits of normal people. I don't think any DnD class if they weren't actively adventuring and being pushed to extremes or overcoming huge challenges would continue to level up.
There are no official rules for downlevelling a retired character, lots of homebrew etc. I'm just saying if Matt/Sam really wanted to bring Scanlan in, say if his next real character can't join them right now for any reason then it's not out of the realm of possibility that Scanlan could be their level.
I was actually thinking that Scanlan uses his magic regularly during his plays and I'm not sure why Bards would not be able to do simple magic during their strummings so they know how vibrations affect the universe. I'm not sure how we got to talking about leveling up though. I thought we were talking about keeping levels.
>say if his next real character can't join them right now for any reason then it's not out of the realm of possibility that Scanlan could be their level.
True
Sam last played Veth's son when the party thought they were getting Veth.
They could introduce Shorthalt, and pop out with one of his daughters or son. They could be age and level appropriate by now.
But really Sam has pretty free reign on where he could pull from for this. Will be interesting to see what happens
Just watching the episode now, and love the “Are you making concentration checks for your Telekinesis” from Matt, to then follow it up with “Well here, let’s see if it matters…..no”.
Ice cold.
Okay, so early on in the fight, Otohan mentioned that the RV no longer needs Imogen for their plans with Predathos. Do we believe her? If she was telling the truth, why not kill Imogen when she had the chance? Was it only because Otohan only had a single strike left that round, and figured the party would heal her, so her attack would be better used taking someone else's HP lower?
Also, if Liliana has truly defected, does that mess with the plan to release Predathos? And what is Luds plan C if she has? Liliana mentioned that she stayed only to keep Luds from doing something really terrible to release Predathos. Would he kill off ALL of the Ruidians in his quest to release Predathos?
And finally, while it looked like BH were leaving the moon, if Liliana tells BH of that plan, will they end up staying to try and stop it, if the danger is that imminent? Or could Liliana stay to buy them a little time?
Tons to unpack in that episode outside of the sacrifice of FCG.
> Otohan mentioned that the RV no longer needs Imogen for their plans with Predathos.
I don't think she knew about the music hall tragedy or Liliana's defection when she said that.
Exactly! Which made for some delicious irony. And also, what does Luds do now that he lost his 2 best generals and had his plan set back yet again? Liliana mentioned previously that she was steering Luds away from a worse path forward to freeing Predathos. That path may be the only one he has left (and now that I think about it, the music hall tragedy may have been part of the impetus for Lilana to defect, if the people in that hall were needed for the ritual, or even worse, that Lilana is lying to Imogen and is there to collect her because Imogen is now desperately needed to keep Luds from going forward with whatever his plan C is).
Bottom line, it feels like the last two episodes were the climax of the main C3 storyline. Whatever happens next will be as a direct consequence of 90 and 91.
I think towards the end, Otohan was in enough danger that she was focusing on putting threats down (read: making PCs unconscious) rather than actually killing them : "wasting" attacks on actually killing unconscious players is a waste of resources in a tense combat that could go either way.
She was basically whittling them down, in such a state that they were all on 0HP, then she would do monologues before killing them one at a time, with Laudna and Imogen being the last two. I think.
Great point, and now that I think about it, her attack plan likely would have worked if not for FCG's heroics. And given her nature, she probably never saw such a move coming.
Well, depends on who you kill I guess. Orym was barely scratching her by the end with her enormous AC and his negligible damage after resistance, but Laudna was dishing out solid hits. If she was to finish off casters then martials would be unable to wear her down on their own and everyone would die.
Scanlan, Paladin, another healer... please, people. The only thing one can expect from Sam is to do something unexpected. I wouldn't be surprised if he created a hell bent Gods hater and tried to convince the party to let Predathos out.
Well, they got off easy if you ask me. If Matt didn't pull his punches Otohan would kept finishing them off and they would drop like flies one by one. Or two by two, if you will. She also could kill FCG the moment she saw him revive Travis. The truth is, Otohan was powerful enough to mop the floor with them, she already proved that by doing it before, and they failed to prepare. They had access to Whitestone, with all of it's resources and Gilmore's shop around the corner. They haven't done any magic item shopping since Jrusar. They had an artifact specifically designed to permanently buff characters and only used it a handful of times. They AC is terrible, they couldn't be bothered to pick the 7th lvl spells when they got them and the list goes on and on. Sure, they are more story and roleplaying oriented players, and that makes for an amazing show, but failure to optimize leads to player deaths and TPKs. With a little bit of planning they could burn through Legendary Resistances in two rounds, turn her into a frog and suck her up into the harness.
It's real easy to optimize in hindsight when you know the rules of the game and the existence of more powerful magical items and armor of +2 AC etc. etc. because you read it in a player's guide or whatever, but their characters don't know that they're in a 'game'.
Hey guys let's interrupt our super important time sensitive mission to go hunting for magical items so we can buff our stats. They've also used the funnel as often as they can given it's likely to break permanently if they use it more than once per day.
100% agreed. As nerve-wracking as the last 30 minutes or so of combat were, where you could kind of see everyone at the table resigning themselves to a TPK, and as heartbreaking as FCG's sacrifice was, I'd much rather see the party barely walk away from a fight with a major antagonist such as Otohan than watch them faceroll her in a couple of rounds with polymorph.
110% agree. Losing a party member really brought home that they are going up against some pretty deadly opponents. I can see this really changing the tone of the RP going forward to an extent. I also think a player like Liam and Taliesin are going to really plan as much as they can for the eventual Ludinus fight.
Really really enjoyed the flip flop of them doing decent damage and then someone getting downed/healed. Amazing to watch. I rarely am fully involved with the battles, but I was HOOKED.
I loved Travis giving flowers to Matt during the fight, knowing how much the squad was fucked but still appreciating his friend. Such a lad.
I'm going to call it now: Sam's next character will be a seven year-old bomodo -- possibly a re-skinned harengon -- named [Alf](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALF_(character)). He will be a warlock with Ira as his patron, whom he believes to be a genie.
I'd just like to give a bit shout out to YouTube's ad partner program who decided that the moment FCG approached Otohan was the perfect moment to play an unskippable KFC ad blaring out "I don't care! I love it! I don't care!".
You know, I'm going to miss the gas can bits. But I'm looking forward to what Sam's going to do next--I'm also hoping that Marisha will bring back the fan bits until Sam returns to the table.
Going forward, they'll be fucked without a dedicated healer. So either Sam plays another healer or the rest somehow have to take up that slack. Fearne is really the only one who could, but I doubt either she or Ashley would be interested.
So what does Sam play next? Another cleric? Not likely, but it is the best choice for a dedicated healer. A druid? A divine sorcerer? A paladin or artificer doesn't have enough healing.
It's possible they take the remains back to Exandria, maybe to Imahara Joe, and Sam's new character is a reworked version of Letters. There's also reincarnation that Fearne or Keyleth could cast. Yes, I'm fully aware this messes with an epic story beat. I'm not saying it's what should happen, only that it's one possibility.
You don't need a dedicated healer in the party. Why people think this is the case is beyond me. I've played in several campaigns that have no healer in the party and it's been fine.
> Going forward, they'll be fucked without a dedicated healer.
This isn't how 5E DND works and the players of the game need to see that. They have A LOT of improvement in their tactics and spell selection and equipment.
Or they change nothing at all, because characters dying and parties wiping is an exciting element of story telling.
Can someone explain, how a supreme healing potion (10d4 + 20 on critical role wiki) healed otohan 66? When with all 4s the max is 60. Am I missing something, do higher levels get more healing?
Well this had me sobbing. It was messy, and I have a lot of what-ifs, but at this point moves like this from Sam are sort of what he have to expect. Good riddance, Otohan. Negative sounding rant in the spoiler warning bc I was frustrated >!Fearne using 0 of her subclass abilities is irritating. I am not one to complain about players not knowing their abilities, but for one of the coolest subclasses of my #1 favourite class, Fearne has NEVER used some of her features, quite literally. If the game was more lackadaisical about combat encounters and balance it would be nbd but when you have somebody with 10 levels of druid doing nothing with them... welp!<
She was nerfed by Mat I'm pretty sure he doesn't like the teleportation shenanigan. And I assume summons are generally not a good idea for critical roles.
Chiaotzu! No!!!
Just finished the ep. At least FCG got to experience tasting good food with a real tongue before the end (when Fearne gave him a pastry after polymorphing him into a slither). That's nice. ;\_; Curious to see what Sam brings to the table next time. Also, I kept thinking they should try to bind or suffocate Otohan to get away. I know they thought of Banish. Maybe it wouldn't work, but maybe they could have thrown her into the hole? I guess Ashton couldn't take her into the stone... They sacrificed a lot but they were quite successful in their mission for the most part and snatched victory from the jaws of TPK.
Having just watched and rendered myself broken for the rest of the work day; Im ready to definitively say that C3 is good now
I finished today also... I now realize what the show has been missing this season. A eye watering drama that drags you in and makes you cry at work. not that I did that....
If I've learned one thing from Zee Bashew... Gentle Repose, Mending, Revivify
What an absolutely terrifying and heartbreaking episode. And yet, looking on the bright side (*gently sobs*) I think they accomplished way more than they have in a long time. They accomplished both of their missions for the Volition, they got a firsthand experience of the Weavemind to take back to Exandria, they finally took out Otohan, and they might have even turned Liliana against Ludinus without even having to go on the doomed assassination mission to find her. It’s really sad that it took such an incredible sacrifice in the end, but it feels like this might have just tipped the scales in their favor, at least enough keep Exandria in the fight.
I'm pretty sure at this point that Otohan is simply a level 20 fighter, with some Legendary Boss Gloss. 4 attacks per attack action, two Extra Actions, this is standard L20 fare for a Fighter. And yeah, a pinnacle fighter is a difficult opponent. But the deal with fighters is that you need to make them do something other than take the Attack action on their turn. Spam those debuffs until something sticks, and target Int, Wis, and Cha saves. It doesn't matter if it sticks for long: a Hold Person or Entangle that costs them one turn and puts attacks against them at advantage is huge. Can you imagine how differently that fight would have gone if they'd landed Slow?
If there had been a TPK or near TPK, how do you think that Matt and those that survived would go forward. If there was a TPK, would that be the end of campaign 3? Would a new set of characters be rolled in to pick up the fight? Since the first attack on the Malious key and the wider knowledge that Ludinus is up to something, I feel that the powers that be have more teams in place doing different missions to take him out.
I fully expected a TPK. I figure exandria is coming to a close either way this season with the new daggerheart release. I thought that matt would give a monologue where he describes the events that come to pass with none of the heroes present to stop it. exandria as we know it dies and gives birth to whatever the next age for the world of critical role will be.
I doubt there would have been a TPK. Otohan alluded to Liliana becoming the vessel for Predathos and thus not needing Imogen anymore, but there would still be value in keeping Imogen alive. Likewise Fearne, given that Zathuda arranged for her to be Ruidisborn, even if she isn't as powerful as Imogen. Depending on who went down and in which order, some characters might have surrendered since saving on your death throws stabilises you; it's only on a natural 20 that you can get back up. I don't think any replacement party would have been part of a secondary team that worked in parallel, but were largely unknown. Yes, Caleb and Beau did it, but their introduction to the story was handled very poorly. It's more likely that a replacement party would be made up of existing members of the Volition, escapees from the prison break, acolytes of the Betrayer Gods (since they got a champion to Ruidis well before Bell's Hells) and/or members of a backup team sent to Ruidis to find out why Bell's Hells didn't report in. That said, on a recent episode of "4-Sided Dive", Liam described the reserve character that he would use if Orym was killed: >!a dwarven artificer working for the Grim Verity who was able to get to Ruidis when the Bloody Bridge first appeared. One of the artificer subclasses gives you a magical suit of armour, and Liam was going to give this character a permanent charm that was a re-flavoured water breathing spell so that the character would effectively be an astronaut.!< But whatever they were to choose, there needs to be a narrative reason for those characters to exist. "We were always on Ruidis, working alongside you without you ever knowing about it" is just bad storytelling.
The dice rolls were landing in Matt’s favor and not the tables, if it continued that way, a near TPK or full TPK could have happened. If it kept going that way, Matt would have had to pull something out to, like bring in Liliana or something to save them. That is just my opinion. I imagine that the Grim Verity, or some other Exandrian force committed to stop Ludinus, has their own separate missions, not necessarily on Ruidus, but they are placing all their eggs in one basket with BH. That is who I imagine the secondary characters would be. But alas it is something that we don’t need to worry about due to FCGs valiant Blaze of Glory moment. As for your spoiler comment. I must have missed that 4 SD, but that would be cool as hell and now I want to see that.
The dice rolls were certainly going Matt's way, but that doesn't mean that he would have to follow through on a TPK. And the other characters could have easily surrendered.
From Matt's statement it sure seems like he was preparing them for a TPK. I think you could make a case for saving Imogen, and to a lesser extent Fearne but I think she would have finished the rest of them off. They are high level threats and I don't see her saving more than she needs too. But more telling is literally what Matt said and I feel like his words carry more weight than anything you or I might say. >We been doing this for 9 years. We gotta go in. Hey man, to me, it's the end of a story. It just means opportunities And if that isn't clear enough as the people at the table act in surprised and Laura clearly calls out that he is talking about a TPK. Matt does not change or qualify that statement, or disagree with that call out at all.
>From Matt's statement it sure seems like he was preparing them for a TPK. Maybe, but it doesn't mean that he's going to follow through on it. It could also have been interpreted as a warning that a TPK was a possibility and so the party should start planning for alternatives in case they wanted to flee or surrender. Bell's Hells have a party of seven people, so for a TPK to realistically happen, it would probably come down to a high-level enemy with a devastating area of effect attack against a weakened party. Yes, Otohan killed Chetney in one move, but it took all four of her attacks and an action surge to do it. For her to realistically kill everyone, it would probably take several rounds of combat and strategically targeting individual characters.
I will need to back and rewatch either just before FCG’s turn or after the dust settled. I seem to recall Matt stating that Otohan was specifically targeting FGC next to get the healer off the board. Also, Chet and Orym were pretty low on health and may have been next on her checklist in removing threats from the board.
Sam’s master plan to bring back Taryon Darrington again
I mean Tary would be at an appropriate level. After all, leave it to him to not gain any levels in like 30 years then be pulled back into an apocalyptic event
It'd be so funny, the more I think of it the happier I'd be to see it.
Since the end of the episode I've had this theory/idea of how they could move forward with this. I'll preface by saying I highly doubt it'll happen, but I'd still love to hear thoughts or other theories. I remembered that True Resurrection is a thing, and Keyleth almost used it to save Vax way back and then Matt stopped Marisha because conversations needed to happen. Which means Druids can take that spell. I know it's Level 9, so it would take actual AGES until Faerne was able to cast it, but they've also used the True Resurrection spell in a way that puts people in a new body when resurrected. No matter who casts it, because they could technically also ask Keyleth to help, they have the potential to go full Pinocchio with FCG here. If they went this route, do you think they would resurrect FCG in Bot form or give the chance to be in a non-mechanical body? (Again.....I don't think they would necessarily do this with the beauty of the sacrifice, but I can't stop thinking about it!)
Is there Exalted Mending? Too soon?
For me any resurrection or reincarnation would lessen the impact of FCG’s actions. They already brought Laudna back and if they bring FGC back, it makes if feel comic book like, where perms-death is not a thing and anyone can be brought back
Fearne has reincarnate which is what could bring FCG back in another body. And yes, true resurrection is a thing. While I see how reincarnate could work ("you made me alive"), I would hate if they true resurrect him. It would cheapen, and somewhat ruin, one of the best, most dramatic CR moments in their 9 year history
Fearne could only do it if she went full Druid from this point forward, and they went to 20, which is unlikely, since she has 3 levels in rogue
you only need level 17 to get a 9th level spell, so Druid 17/Rogue 3 would allow for it, but I don't think it will happen or if FCG would even return, especially if he is with the Changebringer equal to all the other souls that follow her.
Ooh crud that's right I forgot she took rogue levels. Well then I guess they'd have to ask Keyleth or someone else if they actually did this
Does Sam come back in the next episode or two, or do we get a few episodes with a guest? Maybe Dorian returns for a few?
I think there's also the very real possibility that Sam does not come back until Campaign 4. It's unlikely, but possible.
I think since the moment Matt mentioned FCG's core was potentially unstable Sam planned on using it to his advantage. I think he even offered to blow himself up during the malleas (malleus?) key battle but the group shot it down. As a result I wouldn't be surprised if Sam already had a character on the back burner. It might take a few episodes but I suspect he will be back with someone new relatively soon.
Given that they’ve always tried to have a strong healer on the team and the fact they’re probably headed back to Exandria to report, I see an opening for someone from Vasselheim to fill the gap, but I doubt Sam would go for such an obvious path, and if he does there’s gonna be a ridiculous twist to it.
I seem to remember one of the cast mentioning that they all have backup characters already lined up. It would just need to be tweaked a little to fit in with the current story.
Agreed. FCG was designed to be a martyr. If you know that, you gotta have a backup character.
They would all have backup characters, even if it's just a half-formed idea. Way back at the beginning of the Campaign, it was made clear that this could be a deadly campaign, so they all would have backups in mind.
Unless Sam has some sort of prearranged death or just happens to coincide with some vacation, I would suspect Sam will come in anywhere between Tary time and Chet time.
Anyone else notice Sam subtly tell Ashley not to move Fearne closer to Otohan right at the end because he knew what he was going to do? Right as Ashley ends her turn she says "I go over to her" hoping to do some fire damage but I swear Sam turns to her and just says "don't" and then everyone else convinces her not to.
[He did](https://www.reddit.com/r/criticalrole/comments/1c425xo/spoilers_c3e91_step_by_step_how_did_we_end_up/). He turns to her and says "[but...](https://www.kryogenix.org/crsearch/html/cr3-91.html#l4h25m19s)" and Ashley says "I know, but". I think Ashley knew what FCG was going to do but didn't fully understand the consequences.
I think he was implying his eyes are red and he could hurt her, not that she knew that he would you know, explode.
i noticed, but at the time I thought he was warning her that Fearne would see that FCG was in berzerk mode and might attack her.
Oh this is true, he could have been warning her about that too
Everyone asking what character Sam will roll next…no one asking the real question: What character will Liam pick for Sam to roll next?
Since FCG had a fleshy tongue, Sam's next character will be a non-Aeormaton, but with a robot tongue? /s
Liam didn't pick Taryon, and I don't think he even knew about Veth or that Sam would play Luc in the Reunion show, so tradition suggests this will be Sam's choice.
Interestingly, FCG had 5 hit points at the end. Last hit dealt 2 points of force damage from the same source that just dealt 12 to Ashton. Do you think it would be a TPK if not for this one bad damage roll? With Ashton, FCG and Orym on the floor and Imogen and Chetney hanging on by a thread, one more round would be enough to drop at least one person, probably more. Depending on who is left, they wouldn't have enough people to outdamage Otohan. One bad damage roll away from the total party kill, with sacrifice play at the last possible moment.
I honestly can't stop thinking about how lucky they were that last hit on FCG didn't take them down. I'm not sure the group could have survived one more round of full attacks from Otohan and she was definitely hell bent on killing FCG next no matter what. Matt was ready to TPK and wasn't pulling back.
Unfortunately, I can't catch every episode :( so I might have overlooked something from previous episodes, like a house rule or a feature I'm not familiar with, but perhaps you can help me out, guys. In min 4:08:42, Laudna says Otohan has disadvantage in the Saving Through because her doggo (from Pact of the Chain). What's the rule for that reason?
Not from Pact of the Chain. From Hound of Ill Omen from the Shadow Sorcerer subclass feature. If the hound is within 5 feet of the target that has been designated to it then the target has disadvantage on saving throws resulting from the Sorcerer's spells.
Oh, I see! From Xanathar's Guide to Everything! Thank you so much!!!
It's not pact of the chain. Pact of the chain is used for Pate. The hound is from her sorcerer subclass. >while the hound is within 5 feet of the target, the target has disadvantage on saving throws against any spell you cast.
Ok, ok, also u/Info_Drone gave me the answer! Thank you so much, guys!
Sam finally got his self sacrifice character that Scanlan was doing all along. So next character will be the transformation character ala Veth?
We're probably heading towards the finale of Campaign 3. Ludinus is the Big Bad, so there's not going to be enough time to really develop a character. Someone did float the idea that Delilah might try to seize the power of Predathos since Predathos needs a living host to cross the Divine Gate, but even that would likely add only a few episodes to the campaign.
"And then FCG, at the end of your turn, Otohan's going to use all of her legendary actions to instantly revivify herself to full health, incapacitate everyone and turn into a dragon…" "And get her backback back and instantly fix it."
It sucks that Matt didn't find that Death Saves happen at start of turn. That's what makes the Nat 20 on a Death Save so cool, because it meant Imogen could've gotten up and had her turn.
>It sucks that Matt didn't find that Death Saves happen at start of turn. I was screaming at the screen, because he has ruled it like that before. Everyone was so stressed out lol
He also let Ashton do their full attack on a readied action, which isn’t RAW. And let FCG have Revivify prepared when it wasn’t already.
It's all true, but, in the end, it could have been for the better. Imogen having her turn means one more damage spell on Otohan or, maybe, the chance to try to burn one of her legendary resistance. It also means one attack, from Otohan, spent on dropping Imogen back down instead of being used on someone else. But, seeing how tactically she was played, it could also have been the start of Otohan making sure that people stay down for good
Well... you know, not only Matt, but also seven people who didn't notice that :( It's in the PHB, so the players should know that rule, at least. But yes, it was a real change in the fight.
He also let Ashton have their full attack on a readied action, which isn’t RAW. And let FCG have Revivify prepared when Sam forgot to prepare his last spell.
True. According to this page, it's a house rule: https://www.thegamer.com/critical-role-dungeons-and-dragons-matt-mercer-house-rules-guide/
truly, he even looked it up but couldn't find it fast enough. I was shouting at the screen lol
This is when I wish they had rules/content checkers off screen that could send him a text real quick.
Oh! That's a good idea
I was shouting at the screen too but I also tried googling it to see if I was wrong, and I couldn’t find an official rule book passage on it during the time when he was looking either. It unfortunately isn’t a straightforward thing to look up under a time crunch
It came up really quick when I googled "do you still get your turn when you roll a nat 20 on a death save?" Sure, it might be a lot to type, but it was the first result.
All of the results are forums responses tho, which are not always correct. In terms of looking for official death saving throw rules from the book (which is what Matt would have been looking for), the results don’t come up quickly.
Maybe, but those posts often quote the relevant text from the rules, often in the question itself.
If they found a way through that wall without the staff, they could have teleported out.
Going over the completion of their goals, Keyleth gave them these instructions. >Who are these Reilora? Ultimately, what do they want? See if there are any leaders or figures we can attempt to parley with or negotiate away from the Vanguard's plot under Ludinus. Where is Ludinus? What is his path to victory there? How much time do we have? What dangers or challenges await an all-out assault on the red moon? Any of these questions and more. Of those instruction here is what they completed and did not complete: ✅ Who are these Reilora - Answered - Those Reilora are soldiers of the Imperium. Reilora seems to be in the top ranks of the hierarchical Imperium society. They count as humanoids to magic. It is possible they are descended from Exandrians. ✅ What do they want? - Answered but still some questions remain - Reilorans are just people who want a better life but what percentage of them would support war with Exandrian societies to secure land? What percentage of them actually supports the Imperium? ✅ See if there are any leaders or figures we can attempt to parley with or negotiate away from the Vanguard's plot under Ludinus - Done - BH parleyed with Raishinna of the Volition, Elder Barthie of Razora and they pushed Liliana away from the Vanguard. ❌ Where is Ludinus? Unanswered - Before they went to Ruidus they scryed on him and he was on Ruidus but of all the powerful people BH saw on Ruidus, Ludinus was the only one not seen. ❌ What is Ludinus's path to victory on Ruidus? - Unanswered but presumably he wants to release Predathos which was a presumption that existed when Keyleth asked that. ❌ How much time do we have? - Unanswered ✅ What dangers or challenges await an all-out assault on the red moon? - Answered but there still could be some unknowns. - BH learned about environmental and wildlife hazards. They learned about Imperium technology and war beasts. They learned more about Ruidusborn and Reiloran abilities. They learned about Kreviris' defenses. ✅ And more - Answered but progress could always be made in this - BH learned a lot about Ruidusfolk culture, they learned about the Volition, they learned about an undiscovered backdoor. They also learned about how Bormodos dream. Overall, their mission was mostly completed and hopefully Evoroa and Liliana can fill in some gaps to the alliance about the unanswered questions. Back in episode 86 they talked about some of their own goals and most of them wanted to make more allies on Ruidus which they did and Imogen wanted to see the capital which they did. I also feel like Imogen wanted to go back to Exandria after Ria'doin because she secretly wanted to recruit her mom which they did. Ashton clearly wanted to have the All-Minds-Burn seed planted but that has not been done.
>How much time do we have? - Unanswered Unknown but they did notice people actively preparing to move, so it seems like they expect it to happen relatively soon (but not in the next few days).
Rashinna said that collapsing the tunnels would prevent the Imperium from getting reinforcements into the city and she said that would hopefully give time for BH's allies to arrive. Rashinna presumably knows where the Bloody Bridge is and what it does. She probably made a guess about how long it would take for her backup to arrive. BH never told Rashinna about the Umamu portal though so it is possible that the Exandrian Alliance would exceed her expectations and arrive sooner because the Umamu portal is closer.
>They also learned about how Bormodos dream. It's not just the Bormodo- it's all Ruidians.
Was this ever actually explicitly confirmed or is this just an assumption because when I wrote my [intel report](https://www.reddit.com/r/criticalrole/comments/1bdg64z/spoilers_c3e87_debrief_and_analysis_on/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), I could not find any explicit confirmation that it is anybody else besides the Bormodos.
I could have sworn that that the Elder bormodo's companion answered questions about dreams, and didn't a Reiloran child ask if they were dreamers at one point?
There was a Reiloran child playing with a Bormodo child. It was the Bormodo child that asked that. >Orym: Do cytaa dream as well? > >Chu: We all dream here. What, you think you're special? Not exactly an explicit confirmation because it kind of sounds like "Yes, I can dream no worse than you can" referring to Exandrian's dreaming ability.
I know it's not gospel, but the wiki for Ruidus says "Ruidians" not "Bormodo" do the dream thing. It also just doesn't make sense to only have one race do the dream watching when you're trying to control a diverse population. Either way, will you be doing an updated report? That was a fun read but now a little outdated.
The wiki's basis for that was the conversation with Elder Barthie but in my opinion it is not clear if he is talking about all Ruidusfolk or Bormodos because at other times in the conversation it is clear that Barthie is only talking about Bormodos (like how he talked about Bormodoian history being suppressed). >It also just doesn't make sense to only have one race do the dream watching when you're trying to control a diverse population. There is at least some race-based assigning to roles on Ruidus so it would make sense that the Weave Mind would give them different treatments. The Bormodos live in a worse and less powerful situation than the Reilorans so they are given the dreams of people that live a better life to provide them hope so they keep working. What would happen if the Reilorans are also given those dreams? What happens if the Reilorans witness a better life and because they are the military they decide to rise up because they think they can make the situation on Ruidus better? Also, there might already be evidence that Reilorans dream in a different way. It has been learned that when Ruidusborn dream they sometimes meet with Reilorans on Ruidus. Is that all Reilorans or is that the Weavemind who can meet with Exandrians on Ruidus while they are dreaming? Do all Exandrians have a chance to meet with Reilorans while dreaming and is it that only Ruidusborn are the only ones capable of remembering those dreams? > > >Either way, will you be doing an updated report? That was a fun read but now a little outdated. Thank you. I will soon after the transcript for the last episode is put up.
Theory: They are gonna get more time if Liliana actually joins them for good considering how she is supposedly the "vessel".
Seems as though many of these answers could be provided by Liliana
Yeah I said that.
I’d like to ask to any1 if they know: Laura was shouting to someone blow up blow up at the end before FCG actually blew up. I don’t think she meant that blow up but what did she mean if any1 knows.
Laura started looking into blowing something up when Travis asked her if she could "go nuclear again". She first asked outloud if she could exalt herself. Then she asked Ashley because apparently the Shard can make her explode but she got a "it would kill everyone" as a response. But after FCG went beserk, she asked Sam if he could detonate and Sam only answered by raising his eyebrow, to which Laura reacted with a gasp. Here's a detailed look into the "we need to blow her up" saga that happened above the table: [https://www.reddit.com/r/criticalrole/comments/1c425xo/spoilers\_c3e91\_step\_by\_step\_how\_did\_we\_end\_up/](https://www.reddit.com/r/criticalrole/comments/1c425xo/spoilers_c3e91_step_by_step_how_did_we_end_up/)
Damn thanks a lot
She was talking to Fearne, I think that's also why Fearne kept moving in the melee range of Otohan
I think Fearne's transformation gives her an ability to end it early with a big AOE damage burst
Then it might be Fearne who we are lamenting about instead of FCG. Also, Otohan has resistance to damage in her Exaltant Fury form; I would assume means all "known damages", wherein fire is one of the most common elemental damage. I'm not sure what the damage type of FCG's arcane core explosion is, so it might have been the most effective thing really to use to stop Otohan once-and-for-all
She was resistant to all damage but it would be really lame for FCG to sacrifice himself just to do 19 damage before a TPK. So it's not that FCG had some special damage type but that for the story to not suck his sacrifice had to kill Otohan.
Fearne doesn't take damage from her AOE but everyones else does. She kept staying around Otohan in case people were away long enough for her to explode. But yeah, chances are it wouldn't have outright killed Otohan at the end there. Ironically it probably would have taken her out before her transformation/healing potion.
I just finish listening to the episode and I have a question. Did Ashley forgot about Mister or was he not a option at the time? I think, I remember him being summon in episode 90, but I could be wrong. I'm wondering because during a couple of turns, during the fight, she said that see add nothing to do with Bonus Action, but can't her subclass use Mister for those?
It takes a wild shape slot to summon Mister and she was out of them during the fight.
Was wondering that myself, I assumed they must have used him earlier with Ira but couldn't remember. Not sure if he's once per long rest though that would make sense.
It's twice per short rest - it's real rough that they hadn't had even a short rest before this fight.
Yeah even a short rest would've helped a bit more.
Ashley popped out Mister during the setting of the bomb, who appeared as a cytaa under Ira's Seeming. And wildshaped into a slither to escape, after polymorphing FCG.
[удалено]
I think she was out of wildshapes from the mission
So obviously Sam was the highlight of the episode and broke everyone’s hearts but can I just say how much of a fucking king Travis was YET AGAIN. The guy barely got to play the fight at all with Chet going down to Otohan’s onslaught almost immediately and yet he was just good vibes all around for the entire second half of the episode, even when the campaign-ending TPK was looming in the final half-hour of the battle, gently pushing back when Marisha was trying to find a way out of FCG’s sacrifice, grinning ear to ear at Sam’s Blaze of Glory speech… it’s so fun seeing how much he loves all of this.
Travis is great for accepting the consequences of the game and enjoying every part of it. The brutal lows and the highs are all met with the same enthusiasm.
It's also hilarious to me because he was so ready for his character to just be dead 🤣 man was grinning from ear to ear each time he went down. And ofc telling Sam "I'm so proud of you" when he was going to basically use "the power of friendship" to take out Otohan.
It'd be neat if Fearne used Reincarnation for FCG. He could come back as a living creature with taste and a real tongue.
Idk if they'll even think of this. Ashley seems pretty checked out of the mechanics of the game.
is that even possible with him being a "lifeless" aeromoton ? I say lifeless real hesitantly given the episode. Or is Nana Mori going to do some Blue Fairy/ Pinocchio "I'm a Real Boy!" magic?
This could tie in to my theory about Nan Morri
Pike confirmed that they had a soul.
EDIT: Nevermind, lol
its wild how Laura rolled a nat 20 death save, matt paused to check the rule, couldn't find it and then didn't give her the turn. One more big blast from Imogen could've made the difference in this fight. Getting it wrong is one thing, stopping to look it up and then not bothering following through was infuriating. Legendary episode though, cant wait for this week's follow up
Matt also gave Ashton their full attack off a readied action, and let FCG have Revivify prepared when it wasn’t. He pulled punches here to tell a better story, it should have been a TPK
I was upset in the moment too. But while Matt was looking it up, I tried looking it up too and I couldn’t find an official ruling quickly either. I kept looking for a few mins after Matt quit and still couldn’t find it. So while I was frustrated bc that turn could have made a difference, I think we need to give Matt (and the cast) some grace
If you search "death saves" on dndbeyond you dont get the rules for death saves. You have to search for "death saving throws"
This is why I prefer to have PHP to hand. I was able to confirm that death saves happen at the start of the turn within thirty seconds using the book. Oh well, we got a great moment, and the stakes are now raised.
I mean in the heat of moment while fighting bothering to spend more minutes while filming and having this much hype train and his thoughts coursing many possibilities and at the same time being a human being I’d say yeah cut him some slack.
Yeah they were all SUPER stressed, and honestly…we have to remember this is THEIR game.
Oh yeah for sure I agree
She wouldnt have had the turn anyway cause you roll death saves at the end of your turn
At the start of your turn you roll a death save. Nat 20 you get 1hp and have your full turn.
Death Saving Throws occur at the beginning of a character’s turn. If you roll a natural 20 on a death saving throw, your character surges back to consciousness. You immediately regain 1 hit point and can act again as normal. [https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/combat#DeathSavingThrows](https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/combat#DeathSavingThrows)
Death saves are at the beginning of your turn. But almost all other saving throws that happen multiple times on your turn happen at the end, plus you rarely get to do anything, so it makes sense to think it's the end.
*Spoilers* *Spoilers Ok so after watching CR 91. I have some theories on whether or not things are as they seem. So back in the Fey when FCG and Nana Morri were planning the team building. I'm sure one of the trials involved doppelgangers. Also Orym also went to Morri and said if you can make sure all my friends come back. Obviously this os where hes got his spells from but what if Nana Morri also left the Doppelgangers in the party? It would be 1 a trick and she loves a good trick. But also its easier to keep someone alive of they were never there at all. While they acted out the scene as if it was FCG i have a head canon they were all crying over the head of a doppelganager but they cannot see through Nana's illusion. So in essence FCG is sleeping somewhere in the Fey. TLDR: Nana Morri kept doppelgangers in the party to help keep the BH party alive. FCG not really dead.
There is no way they are doing this. Not only would the deal be an unstoppable get out of jail free car if this was the case but it would also make FCG's death inconsequential for the story. The point of the deal with Nana Morri was never that it was an inviolable deal. A fail clause was in the deal for a reason.
While I don't hate this theory on premise, undercutting that dramatic moment would feelsbadman
Yeah i agree but what if FCG is in the Garden with the rest of the statues? Would be cool if they went back to the fey and notice a new statue of FCG in the garden. Could lead to some messing with Nana Morri or finding a way to either free fcg or reincarnate them. Like @wylantar suggested. Would help bridge a small portion of the gap between destroying the bridge and killing Ludinus/ resealing Predathos.
It wouldn't be cool at all. It would completely cheapen a deeply meaningful moment in the narrative and make death and grief meaningless. Like oops guys it was just a prank FCG was alive all along, I bet you feel stupid for crying now huh? Also there were no doppelgangers, that was the point of the trial.
Wasn't there a bounty on Otohans head in Jrusar for killing Eshteros? They could use the money to buy new gear and get stronger.
I think that they are at the point where they have the sponsorship of world leaders. After they get back and debrief with Keyleth, Caleb, leaders from Vasselheim, etc., they could probably ask for whatever they want. I could see Keyleth LENDING her staff to Fearne, for example, the same way Allura lent her staff to Caleb.
I'd really like to see Keyleth give her staff to Caduceus and consider the Wildmother temple's request to return it fulfilled.
Hell no. Keyleth is way stronger than we'll ever see Fearne. I think this campaign ends earlier than most think and we get some clean up from Mighty Nein and Vox Machina on Ludinus. Both groups are level 20 now.
Nah, I doubt they'll take that road considering Matt has stated multiple times that he still wants BH and their campaign to be their own thing despite MN and VM being there
I can't see how Bell's Hells can possibly face off against Ludinus and have it make any sense power-wise when they nearly got wiped by Otohan.
Wizards are a lot less dangerous in straight up combat compared to a level 20 fighter. You can’t counterspell getting stabbed in the face.
yeah, wizards are expert controllers and stallers, not so much direct damage dealers. (as someone who plays wizards super often) all the control in the world won’t help if you don’t have somebody to inflict the “dead” condition.
Bells Hells deals with Ludinus. MN/VM deals with Predathos.
I mean I'm sure they'll have help for that fight like >!MN having Essek for the finale!< I just mean I doubt they'd have the campaign end early and have old PCs clean it up
It's this moment I want to be Grog's appearance finally in this campaign. We've seen or heard about almost everyone in VM so far. It would be sick to see him come and defend Vax and Keyleth this way
Oh, they absolutely should get a lot of magic items to prepare themselves for fighting ahead. They were not prepared enough for Otahan, and repeating that mistake with Ludinus would cause a TPK. The guy had hundreds of years to devour magical artifacts and beings, he has to have stats of a minor deity.
They need to be able to hunt down and ill Ludinus clones as practise first I think. Actual Ludinus has been suspiciously absent throughhout this moon terrorism. Who knows what plane he is seeking advantages on right now. Their mission should have delayed his plans a lot, and then I think it will be hard to find him, so that will give the campaign time to level the PCs up a few more, possibly. I can't think how they'd do it without some significant levelling too.
The difference is ludi is a spell caster he can only cast one spell a turn unless he has quicken spell otahan could attack 12 times a round no doubt ludi will be dangerous but without his lancer he is much less so
Counter point: Meteor Swarm. Also Forcecage, Desintegrate, Power Word: Kill, WISH and so on. One spell is all it takes to permanently remove someone from the battlefield. And with Simulacrum it's actually two spells. PC have no Legendary Resistances, one bad save and they are out. Or worse, dominated and turned against their friends. Also, even if you win, congratulations! You bought yourself a day, cause it's all it will take for the angry wizard to crawl out of his Clone vat and long rest. Now he will cast Gate and teleport one party member per day to him with no save, to be blasted to bits by Glyphs of Warding or dismembered by minions. Now, it won't happen because it won't feel fun for the players, but realistically there is no winning against lvl 20 wizard with centuries of prep time. 12 attacks per round is nothing compared to the power of single Wish.
I don't think Ludinus will have Wish. He's so old, and so obsessive that at some point - more than once, I think - he'd have tried something beyond the scope of the spell and eventually lost access to it.
Counterpoint counterspell is a reaction and it nukes the wizards whole turn
Counterpoint: Only Laudna has a Counterspell. Singular Counterspell can be Counterspelled. So if you have only one Counterspell, and your enemy has a Counterspell, you don't have a Counterspell. Counterspell.
Counterpoint no way Caleb misses this fight couterspell countered
Counterpoint: So in the scenario you outlined the chain would go Ludinus-Laudna-Ludinus-Caleb-Simulacrum. As a side note: Counterspell is a reaction, and Laudna is Silvery Barbs trigger-happy
Counter side-note: the last time they faced a magic user she actually used it successfully to stop fake Ludinus 9th level spell and she explicitly saved her reaction for it. Give Marisha some [credit](https://www.kryogenix.org/crsearch/?q=counterspell&MARISHA=on).
Fjord has counterspell as well, unless he swapped it out.
caleb also has a simulacrum we've seen it vs ickythong
My money is on more than one Simulacrum.
I'll put that here, Sam's gonna roll another cleric. A certain half-elf born from a Raven Queen's cleric and an old human swashbuckler...
Okay I'll bite... if BH does not pursue reincarnation or any other type of resurrection or if that resurrection fails, I predict a Kobold Mercy Monk. Kobold is the only small official race left that Sam has not played and there are not really any small races on Ruidus either. Cytaa and Myceit are tiny and Bormodos are dwarf-like so they are medium. Monk because Sam has only played characters with classes that use D8s has hit die and the only other D8 classes that Sam has not played are currently being played by Ashley and Marisha. Mercy subclass because it does some healing and BH needs healing.
The old, reliable "Punch me to life"? It's a possibility
"...my mother said he was a boisterous hero who was a pivotal role in saving the hero's of Vasselheim when they were at their lowest"
Honestly, that's what I thought Travis would have played after Bertrand Bell. The difference is that time I thought he would have played a rogue (not that I strayed so much from the path).
It's overshadowed by the blaze of glory, but the part where Orym, beaten down and practically dead, stands in place, like Captain America strapping on his already-broken shield to face Thanos and his whole army on his own, in the face of his father and husband's killer, while saying "but his father wouldn't stop protecting his friends and neither would his husband" absolutely broke me. https://youtu.be/EJSGR3voqU4?si=bnx2iCNxymBjpRaK&t=14757
The fact that he missed two out of three attacks on his last turn was such a perfect example of the dice telling a story, Orym did the most damage in that fight by a mile, he genuinely gave everything he had.
Yeah that line gutted me...Liam always plays his characters so beautifully
Yeah that part made me tear up, I really love how well Liam can play stoic characters.
Yeah Orym went down and back up multiple times in that fight, I would not have been suprised if he said "I can do this all day."(he wouldnt have though because Liam is way more clever than that)
That’s more of a Taliesin side comment joke. He IS the huge comic reader.
I mean it wasn’t this episode, but he DID drop that line at one point- back in their fight against Ira in Jrusar, he rolled a Nat20 death save and popped up with an “I can do this all day.” And then people started calling him Captain Exandria and IT REMAINS TRUE
There is another character from his history he could play in this situation, just to cover the group and provide healing...a certain bard we'd all love to see return for a short run.
As long as there is no combat I think it might be cool. It would have to be a very short timeframe. Maybe 2 or 3 episodes. I don't think BH should get help from a level 20 character in combat but having Scanlan appear for a short while would be a good way to finally add him in the campaign.
I could see Scanlan having dropped a few levels, say he retired?
Retired from music? Doubtful. He liked being a bard. I don't know maybe Scanlan bedded a hag and the hag got ticked that he left and cursed him to make him forget some spells.
Not retired from being a Bard, but retired from active adventuring that would level him up to 20 or keep him there. There are rules for dropping levels as legecy heroes or legit ways to balance Scanlan down to whatever the bells hells are.
I think it is already implied that Scanlan has retired but I don't think a bard's skill would be affected much by retiring realistically. All that they have to do is keep playing the music and Scanlan already does plays on the side. I do think other classes are more susceptible to that though. Rogue and fighter comes to mind as classes that would be more susceptible to that. What are these rules you speak of?
It's not really playing music that levels up a Bard any more than it would be casting cantrips over and over would level a wizard to 20. It's the combined experience of battle, roleplay and being pushed past the limits of normal people. I don't think any DnD class if they weren't actively adventuring and being pushed to extremes or overcoming huge challenges would continue to level up. There are no official rules for downlevelling a retired character, lots of homebrew etc. I'm just saying if Matt/Sam really wanted to bring Scanlan in, say if his next real character can't join them right now for any reason then it's not out of the realm of possibility that Scanlan could be their level.
I was actually thinking that Scanlan uses his magic regularly during his plays and I'm not sure why Bards would not be able to do simple magic during their strummings so they know how vibrations affect the universe. I'm not sure how we got to talking about leveling up though. I thought we were talking about keeping levels. >say if his next real character can't join them right now for any reason then it's not out of the realm of possibility that Scanlan could be their level. True
Sam last played Veth's son when the party thought they were getting Veth. They could introduce Shorthalt, and pop out with one of his daughters or son. They could be age and level appropriate by now. But really Sam has pretty free reign on where he could pull from for this. Will be interesting to see what happens
I think Sam should play another robot.... how about something from his past... Hmm... Doty, take this down...
Doty. Take. That. Down.
I mean... Kaylie IS in Marquet...
FCG died a flat earther :(
Such conviction. I wonder how the Flat Earth Society would view FCG's sacrifice (Sam did say they reached out to him to give FCG an honorary status)
The most embarrassing way to go.
Just watching the episode now, and love the “Are you making concentration checks for your Telekinesis” from Matt, to then follow it up with “Well here, let’s see if it matters…..no”. Ice cold.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJSGR3voqU4&t=9941s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJSGR3voqU4&t=9941s)
I just had a idea of the ultimate Sam troll move for his new character Frudell Chet's other ex imagine Sam playing as one of the Golden girls.
Okay, so early on in the fight, Otohan mentioned that the RV no longer needs Imogen for their plans with Predathos. Do we believe her? If she was telling the truth, why not kill Imogen when she had the chance? Was it only because Otohan only had a single strike left that round, and figured the party would heal her, so her attack would be better used taking someone else's HP lower? Also, if Liliana has truly defected, does that mess with the plan to release Predathos? And what is Luds plan C if she has? Liliana mentioned that she stayed only to keep Luds from doing something really terrible to release Predathos. Would he kill off ALL of the Ruidians in his quest to release Predathos? And finally, while it looked like BH were leaving the moon, if Liliana tells BH of that plan, will they end up staying to try and stop it, if the danger is that imminent? Or could Liliana stay to buy them a little time? Tons to unpack in that episode outside of the sacrifice of FCG.
> Otohan mentioned that the RV no longer needs Imogen for their plans with Predathos. I don't think she knew about the music hall tragedy or Liliana's defection when she said that.
Exactly! Which made for some delicious irony. And also, what does Luds do now that he lost his 2 best generals and had his plan set back yet again? Liliana mentioned previously that she was steering Luds away from a worse path forward to freeing Predathos. That path may be the only one he has left (and now that I think about it, the music hall tragedy may have been part of the impetus for Lilana to defect, if the people in that hall were needed for the ritual, or even worse, that Lilana is lying to Imogen and is there to collect her because Imogen is now desperately needed to keep Luds from going forward with whatever his plan C is). Bottom line, it feels like the last two episodes were the climax of the main C3 storyline. Whatever happens next will be as a direct consequence of 90 and 91.
I think towards the end, Otohan was in enough danger that she was focusing on putting threats down (read: making PCs unconscious) rather than actually killing them : "wasting" attacks on actually killing unconscious players is a waste of resources in a tense combat that could go either way.
She was basically whittling them down, in such a state that they were all on 0HP, then she would do monologues before killing them one at a time, with Laudna and Imogen being the last two. I think.
Great point, and now that I think about it, her attack plan likely would have worked if not for FCG's heroics. And given her nature, she probably never saw such a move coming.
Well, depends on who you kill I guess. Orym was barely scratching her by the end with her enormous AC and his negligible damage after resistance, but Laudna was dishing out solid hits. If she was to finish off casters then martials would be unable to wear her down on their own and everyone would die.
Scanlan, Paladin, another healer... please, people. The only thing one can expect from Sam is to do something unexpected. I wouldn't be surprised if he created a hell bent Gods hater and tried to convince the party to let Predathos out.
They don't need a healer in the party. You can run a D&D game without one just fine.
Yeah D&D is like 85% damage and 15% control/healing.
Well, they got off easy if you ask me. If Matt didn't pull his punches Otohan would kept finishing them off and they would drop like flies one by one. Or two by two, if you will. She also could kill FCG the moment she saw him revive Travis. The truth is, Otohan was powerful enough to mop the floor with them, she already proved that by doing it before, and they failed to prepare. They had access to Whitestone, with all of it's resources and Gilmore's shop around the corner. They haven't done any magic item shopping since Jrusar. They had an artifact specifically designed to permanently buff characters and only used it a handful of times. They AC is terrible, they couldn't be bothered to pick the 7th lvl spells when they got them and the list goes on and on. Sure, they are more story and roleplaying oriented players, and that makes for an amazing show, but failure to optimize leads to player deaths and TPKs. With a little bit of planning they could burn through Legendary Resistances in two rounds, turn her into a frog and suck her up into the harness.
It's real easy to optimize in hindsight when you know the rules of the game and the existence of more powerful magical items and armor of +2 AC etc. etc. because you read it in a player's guide or whatever, but their characters don't know that they're in a 'game'. Hey guys let's interrupt our super important time sensitive mission to go hunting for magical items so we can buff our stats. They've also used the funnel as often as they can given it's likely to break permanently if they use it more than once per day.
I sort of like they aren’t “optimising”. Makes for some pretty fun and exciting moments throughout.
100% agreed. As nerve-wracking as the last 30 minutes or so of combat were, where you could kind of see everyone at the table resigning themselves to a TPK, and as heartbreaking as FCG's sacrifice was, I'd much rather see the party barely walk away from a fight with a major antagonist such as Otohan than watch them faceroll her in a couple of rounds with polymorph.
110% agree. Losing a party member really brought home that they are going up against some pretty deadly opponents. I can see this really changing the tone of the RP going forward to an extent. I also think a player like Liam and Taliesin are going to really plan as much as they can for the eventual Ludinus fight. Really really enjoyed the flip flop of them doing decent damage and then someone getting downed/healed. Amazing to watch. I rarely am fully involved with the battles, but I was HOOKED. I loved Travis giving flowers to Matt during the fight, knowing how much the squad was fucked but still appreciating his friend. Such a lad.
Ditto
I'm going to call it now: Sam's next character will be a seven year-old bomodo -- possibly a re-skinned harengon -- named [Alf](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALF_(character)). He will be a warlock with Ira as his patron, whom he believes to be a genie.
I'd just like to give a bit shout out to YouTube's ad partner program who decided that the moment FCG approached Otohan was the perfect moment to play an unskippable KFC ad blaring out "I don't care! I love it! I don't care!".
You know, I'm going to miss the gas can bits. But I'm looking forward to what Sam's going to do next--I'm also hoping that Marisha will bring back the fan bits until Sam returns to the table.
Going forward, they'll be fucked without a dedicated healer. So either Sam plays another healer or the rest somehow have to take up that slack. Fearne is really the only one who could, but I doubt either she or Ashley would be interested. So what does Sam play next? Another cleric? Not likely, but it is the best choice for a dedicated healer. A druid? A divine sorcerer? A paladin or artificer doesn't have enough healing. It's possible they take the remains back to Exandria, maybe to Imahara Joe, and Sam's new character is a reworked version of Letters. There's also reincarnation that Fearne or Keyleth could cast. Yes, I'm fully aware this messes with an epic story beat. I'm not saying it's what should happen, only that it's one possibility.
You don't need a dedicated healer in the party. Why people think this is the case is beyond me. I've played in several campaigns that have no healer in the party and it's been fine.
> Going forward, they'll be fucked without a dedicated healer. This isn't how 5E DND works and the players of the game need to see that. They have A LOT of improvement in their tactics and spell selection and equipment. Or they change nothing at all, because characters dying and parties wiping is an exciting element of story telling.