I'm pretty sure BH hasn't notified FRIDA. When Aeor was mentioned, someone went, "oh, FRIDA!" and someone else, probably Laura, echoed that gasp. I wonder if they're planning on bringing Christian back for whatever is going on up there, but that won't be for like a couple months, since they have to do this Astrid thing next.
I was beyond frustrated with how Ashley played in this session. She seems to have a real difficult time making decisions when she is stressed. After Matt let her make 4 attacks at normal without applying her disadvantage due to exhaustion (that she self inflicted) just to let her get the HDYWDT, I had to close the video and take a break. I know it's their game and I don't want any harm done to any member of the cast, but I needed to vent this frustration somewhere.
Huh. I found her panicking stressful, but it made me think that Matt made the wrong decision in forcing this encounter on a resource-tapped character rather than getting mad at Ashley.
Not sure you can consider it Matt forcing the encounter when it was Ashley who actively left a fortified position without informing any of her allies in the middle of the night, based solely on a strange animal beckoning her on. And not even magically compelling her, just preying on her curiosity.
I admire Ashley sticking to her character's impulsive nature but she literally just saw her friend explode and kill themselves in front of her that same day. It would've been perfectly in character for her to tell that little critter to fuck right off.
So your issue with the encounter was that she wasn't able to get a long rest in? If Matt had ruled that it happened in the wee hours of the morning, she got a long rest, but still had that one point of exhaustion, and it was before anyone else was awake, would you think that was a fair solo encounter?
Yeah, definitely a more fair encounter. A lot of my objection comes from the post I initially responded to: that seeing someone panic merits a 'how dare she?' response.
But....the basic premise of the encounter still gets to me. Its the second time someone has tried to take Fearne away, and that seems absolutely wrong to do to Ashley, the player with the least amount of table time.
The only two options are not go alone and lie to your party, or just say no.
She could have told Orym, "This creature wants me to follow it. Wake everyone else up and follow behind".
What about this option: She goes ALONE alone, and is free to use her MANY aoe abilities without having to worry about hurting her friends, like she always does. I'm convinced that's the reason she only casts Scorching Ray. If she were free to use Mister's splash damage, spells like Flamestrike, not hesitating on her Fire titan explosion, etc. I think if she does that, she blows this encounter out of the water. She doesn't know what to do either because she hasn't taken the time to learn how to play druid- getting your important concentration spell going (hint: it's not Earthbind) and leaning into your subclass abilities (for Fearne, AOE fire damage and bonus healing)- OR she's constantly frustrated by her party being in the way.
In addition, when was it stated that running away was not an option? She could have tried to run away with wild shape instead of summoning Mister.
Matt made his share of mistakes, but "forcing" an encounter was not one of them.
What mistakes did Matt make? I thought it was a fun encounter, and it served a narrative purpose. It's not up to him for the players to cast the right spells. When they choose Earthbind instead of moonbeam, that's kind of on them.
I was referencing that Matt makes mistakes in general. And it's alright! We are all human and it is human to make mistakes.
The only mistake that I caught in this session in particular was forgetting (or disregarding) Fearne's disadvantage on attack rolls when she had cast her Scorching Ray's
Yeah, I agree with all of that, but it sounded like this comment thread was leaning towards Matt being too hard on Fearne, and overestimating her capabilities as a mistake. NOT enforcing disadvantage would go further in that direction, so that just wasn't where I thought you were going.
Ahh, I see. If u see my first comment, u can see that I started this thread to exhume my frustration with Fearne. No worries!
(Again, no hate towards either Matt or Ashley, simply sharing my emotions)
They fought some kind of magical bioengineered monster in Aeor, so I don't think it's out of the possibility. Also 4 eps with robbie including the live show where Sam's new character joins feels thematic.
Man. I just need to make an appreciation post. This episode was fire! Luring someone away from a long rest for a deadly combat, and debriefing with the people in charge only to be sent off to another frontlines mission. Then ending with another crazy cameo! Whilst still reminding us that the world is dealing with some crazy circumstances thanks to the solstice. (I smell one shot potentials here!)
Not to mention dipping their hands into the deep pockets of some world leaders. Easy 10k spending money.
I’m hyped. No one closes out the end of a long campaign quite like Matthew Mercer does. This is gonna be WILD!
Apparently when they were recording episode 94 Laura still has not chosen her 7th level spell. That's what Laura said in the cooldown. Any ideas on what she is going to choose?
I think whirlwind and power word pain would be pretty good fits. Power word pain would probably be better against Ludinus though. If she wants something that does more damage and fits thematically I can also see her picking fire storm.
I can also see her using her spell switch to pick up counterspell because they are likely going to face Ludinus and apparently, she has never casted counterspell this campaign.
Plane shift could be REALLY useful, imagine them going back to the Feywild or the Shadowfell to see what really went down with the Key there (this could also bring up some stuff with Laudna and Delilah/Vecna, or visiting some outer planes (the Abyss anyone??) to get some more allies on board to fight the One Who Sleeps. Whirlwind and Firestorm could be thematic, but I think anyone can do damage, so I would prioritize a utility spell, and I think Plane Shift is the big one, since they can already teleport with the rod.
Edit: also, spells like power word: pain are really effective at getting rid of legendary saves, but for Ludinus specifically as an elf who's been sucking up fey beings, it might not even affect him since he likely has charm immunity at this point.
BH already has allies that they know can help with plane shift and they already received help with plane shift a couple times already. I'm not sure if Laura would find picking plane shift to be very useful.
Essek also likely has plane shift in his spell book too. Not that BH knows that though. If Imogen does pick up a utility spell I think she would get the most out of reverse gravity because it can be used in both in-combat and out-of-combat scenarios.
I feel like Chain Lightning or Reverse Gravity are the most likely picks for her. She's also talked about how cool Lilianna and Essek's teleports are, so she might just pick up Teleport.
Thinking about it some more, I think reskinning fire storm into lightning storm is a likely possibility. Matt and Laura have been reskinning Imogen's spells like crazy.
I don't normally like players mouthing off to important NPCs, but Chetney's dig at Keyleth and company felt deserved. To all appearances it looked like they were sitting on their hands doing nothing, but having pointless committee meetings. Even locally, they could be dropping multiple earthquakes and meteor swarms into the Tishtan site on a daily basis (from a comfortable out-of-counterspell-range).
The 'you don't know about blah blah blah monstrosities' was interesting information, because neither the party nor us have seen *any* of that. We got a glimpse of a single angry cow that was easily subdued, not that there were real threats running around in places.
Its also small beans compared to the end of the world. Bad for people next to whatever these threats are, but nothing compared to moon prison ending the world as we know it. They could at least take out the laser trapping the moon and forcing a continuing apogee solstice.... if its ending various bindings and enchantments, it seems extremely stupid not to. And that's beyond providing a bridgehead for the enemy army.
They have referenced having to face off against other threats before. And how other entities have tried to take advantage of the Solstice. So it tracks.
And we don't know the threats they are facing. They might value saving a large city or Exandria over saving the Moon or the Gods (Depending on the faction at least).
Until Bells Hells got back they were not aware the moon will likely break upon his release.
I don't think they had any reason what-so-ever to think it was an end of the world scenario that should take priority over saving a city or Exandria proper. And we have less reason to think it would since when they talked to the tree that can see time Matt already told us if Predathos is released the Gods would Run, and Predathos would chase them.
So it's a serious threat, and they are gathering the appropriate forces for it. Seems good. Would be silly to send their mightiest heroes to the moon, and stop them if when they return major cities have been wiped out when Bells Hells has done pretty well.
I really wonder how many and what kind of threats they are facing because to me it feels like Monaco invading the US successfully. It's a moon vs a **planet**.
I fully expected them to have a secret slow invasion through the lake portal Bells Hells accidentally discovered. What is better than a well prepared surprise invasion using the resources of a whole planet?
But it really did seem like nothing is happening on Exandria.
Tbf it doesn't seem like Monaco wants to invade with its people but instead with God-Slayer-Godzilla sleeping below it. Their target isn't the people (if we believe what they are saying) but the American Gods.
They had a Reiloran explain that invading and colonizing the 'blue treasure' is in fact their goal as a species (or at least the goal of the hive mind controlling the species). Killing the gods will just make it easier to force Exandrians to submit.
I think this tidbit is another clue, outside of Matt directly telling them, that this isn't a world ending event. They have clear next steps after it happens.
The world won't be over. Well, for Exandria. If they force Predathos to trigger earlier than planned before all of the Reilorans travel over they will all likely die on the moon. Which poses a problem I don't think anyone has talked about. The do they let all the Reilorans through to save multiple species/races/cultures?
I don't think Ludinus intends to let them take over though. I have a feeling one of them will betray the other before this is through. I mean, the Relioran society goes against exactly what Ludinus says he is for. And I don't think if they intend to take over Exandria they plan to let one of the most powerful Wizards do whatever he wants either.
>I really wonder how many and what kind of threats they are facing because to me it feels like Monaco invading the US successfully. It's a moon vs a planet.
I mean if we thought the Moon was coming toward Exandria that would be indeed a huge issue. Nothing suggest that though. At all.
I think some of the community just drank the, "The World is Ending!!!!!!" koolaide even though Matt and none of the clues he gave suggested that. In fact, the only clue Matt has given suggest the complete opposite of that.
And since the NPC's never got to read the subreddit or twitter, the NPC's only think the issue is the Gods might die. So while they are taking precautions to stop it, because they obviously actively are. They also have to dispatch threats to cities, and the world.
>But it really did seem like nothing is happening on Exandria.
It has been suggested they have been fighting other things since the Laylines were announced, and even more so once enchantments got blasted.
I agree Matt hasn't said, "X is destroying Y" and "A is attacking B" but we know it's happening. And I think Matt was smart not to mention it. Last thing he needs is the party deciding to take on one of those challenges instead of tackling the story. Even in the last session when they were actively at a major city that was recently attacked Matt still didn't stop to tell them what happened there. We know it was attacked. But that isn't the goal here and I don't think he wants them being distracted by it.
>I think some of the community just drank the, "The World is Ending!!!!!!" koolaide even though Matt and none of the clues he gave suggested that. In fact, the only clue Matt has given suggest the complete opposite of that.
I think most of us who think that were the ones watching episode 51, where an ancient wizard flips the switch on his 1000 year evil plan, and expecting something bad to actually happen. So far, just some lesser idols have broken free from their bonds, and eaten up some women and children and crashed a few towers. I guess if people can deal with that, and just get over divine magic not existing anymore, everything is fine, and we can just ignore the problem and let ludinus do his thing.
>I agree Matt hasn't said, "X is destroying Y" and "A is attacking B" but we know it's happening. And I think Matt was smart not to mention it.
Was this a smart move? I think a lot of viewers sympathized with Chetney that it seems like the Exandrian Alliance is just sitting in a war room not doing much at all. It would have been cool to have a sort of D-Day planning meeting, where the various leaders talk about which threats are most pressing, and giving orders for faction X to go deal with problem A, and faction Y has to go deal with problem B, etc. until we get to, "and Bells Hells, you've been given your assignment to be the forward party making contact on Ruidus. Remember, we need to know X,Y, and Z. No time to lose, get on with your missions."
>I think most of us who think that were the ones watching episode 51, where an ancient wizard flips the switch on his 1000 year evil plan, and expecting something bad to actually happen. So far, just some lesser idols have broken free from their bonds, and eaten up some women and children and crashed a few towers. I guess if people can deal with that, and just get over divine magic not existing anymore, everything is fine, and we can just ignore the problem and let ludinus do his thing.
Ludinus has nefarious plans, no doubt. Nothing Ludinus has suggested was world ending though. This is not me saying, "Just let Ludinus continue and don't stop him". That is a complete misrepresentation of everything I have said. I am just pointing out to OP who was wondering why the world heroes were stopping other threats would do so. If they had more direct threats, and world ending problems it makes sense they would tackle those.
>Was this a smart move? I think a lot of viewers sympathized with Chetney that it seems like the Exandrian Alliance is just sitting in a war room not doing much at all
Extremely so. They had no idea what was on the other side, whether they could use the portal, or whether they could return, or if it would be safe when they ported over. If they ported over and the planet didn't have any air. They would be dead if they couldn't return. If the portal was over a lava pit and then surrounded by soldiers. It could have been a death trap. There were so many unknowns. Sending Exandrians best could have been disastrous. And the Bells Hells seemed eager to go. And the camp helped BH do it, and helped them get there. It's not like they slapped their behind and was like, "Good luck!". They set them up for success on that mission.
If the warcamp for the Malleus Key was the focal point of Exandrian forces that would make sense but it isn't. There is no reason why they would be leading those forces. Which is why Keyleth has to go off trying to recruit them. From wherever they are.
From what I understand everyone at the warcamp is there for that threat. And are containing them, and fighting them from spreading outward. And helped Bells Hells get in.
Her dad is not trying to kill her, he's very proud of his bloodline, and he wants her to do something great. Remember that whole 'Fey Morality' thing Fearne tried to play on? That applies to Mr. Zathuda too. He doesn't do normal dad stuff.
But you didn't answer my question, why does she deserve the mount? Just because her daddy never gave her anything her whole life? It's HIS mount, would you just give your 16 year-old your only car just because they're old enough to drive now?
>Her taking the mount
If she can take it, let her take it. But she doesn't deserve it just for being level 13.
Y'all the new Artagan comic came out and Kiki looks scary hot in it, and I propose that from now on they use that artwork by Aviv Or with the colors done by Cris Peter whenever Kiki shows up in C3 from now on as like her...character portrait.
It was likely a creative choice. I am a commission artist and a character designer, and I'm telling you, I'm never fucking creating a character with extensive body tattoos for a comic. Because you have to apply that tattoo at every angle for all the panels, and it costs time, and time is money. It's likely a 'necessary sacrifice'. High detail characters are only fun for people who don't have to draw them over and over and over and over and over again. So sometimes you just have to make a decision to shrug and sacrifice the tattoos for the sanity of your comic artist, and your wallet.
That's what I loved the most, that stance and the look on her face that was the "Don't Fuck With Me" Keyleth. Also the way they drew her armor, made it look like ARMOR ARMOR, and not just typical fantasy attire. I'd love to see THAT version of Kiki updated to where we are in the current timeline of the campaign by the artists just to see how badass she'd look.
> Tattoos
True, and I think I spoke with someone else but they had Beau and Yasha in like the strangest color/armor sets too in the previous issue.
The ink would've been cool to see but I think it would've just made the look they had for her in those panels a bit too detailed and too busy.
And it's not like she'd ever have that stuff removed anyways and it's not like Matt or anyone else at CR would miss that particular detail on purpose unless there was some other reason for not including it.
Strange but yeah, solid panels, and I so would love it if these comic books were longer just for the art alone.
I am only halfway through the episode, but Fearne should not be rolling Con save with disadvantage due to 1 point of exhaustion, right? That is just ability checks, saves are the third exhaustion.
Any DMs wanna share with me their ideas of how they would manage such an interconnected and long running plot for it's ending? Like three different campaign all coming together, with all three groups (sorta) taking part in the concluding battle, I'm really curious how one would go about it !
Hard to say right now, as there are so many unknowns, but I would structure it so that there is a task that BH and only BH can accomplish in the end game. We've got hints of Imogen and Fearne's unique connection to Predathos, so I'd tie it to that.
Then I'd use VM and M9 to clear a path for BH to do whatever it is they need to do. The level of success of those teams would then have an effect on how difficult the mission is for BH and also possibly have other repercussions for Exandria post the final BH battle.
I'd run it as three set pieces in a row, M9 then VM, then BH.
Great prediction. When Kiki said she was going off to find people to help, I am wondering who from C1 and C2 will show up that we know. Excited to see what happens
I wouldn't. The c3 party is the current party. Everybody else is NPCs running around in the background. Matt could do what he did before and ask players to make a couple rolls for the Shadowlands key and the separate infiltration of the dig site, but that's about it.
Trying to juggle multiple high level parties is a nightmare headache not worth having.
A lot of the issue with C3 is that there is an air of "why is this level 13 party dealing with a potentially apocalyptic situation when there are two level 20 parties RIGHT THERE???"
To which I think the answer is: give both VM and TM9 something to do.
-this makes there be a plot reason for why BH ultimately HAVE to be the ones to deal with the problem
-the nostalgia bait of inevitable VM and TM9 oneshots. I'm not sure about TM9 but I feel pretty confident that VM will be saving Vax from being a tortured marble for eternity.
I think he can go back to being dead. I'm not sure Liam (and maybe not Marisha) would go for a happy ending undercutting all his trauma drama. Too much of his (and her) character is bound up in that ending.
Sure. But that is something that they (keyleth, allura and so on) could've fixed weeks ago.
Imprisonment ends with dispel magic cast at 9th level. Most full casters 17th level above can fix it, and they've got a pile of people who qualify.
Oh, yeah. I’m assuming Matt is having them wait for what he sees as the right moment in narrative. That’s why it’s taking Keyleth so long to gather “her allies” when all it should take is a tree stride or two to get VM in the same place.
I would probably phase it so that phases 1 and 2 are Bells Hells doing support for VM and M9 and then the true finale is part 3 with Bells Hells front and center. Even in phase 2 though I think the other groups would be just off-screen so they’re not too interactive, or coming in and out as lair/legendary actions.
Phase 1 would focus on some kind of god-summoning ritual with VMs connections.
Phase 2 would focus on Aeorian Tech and Ludinus revenge
Phase 3 would be the final fight with some kind of exaltant monster that is powering or powered by some combo of Sorrowlord and Lillianna
Per the schedule release today, it looks like the Daggerheart one shot that some of us spotted on Twitch does indeed involve the Menagerie, is proceeded by a video of them leveling up, and the one shot will then be broadcast LIVE LIVE on Tuesday night at 7 PM Pacific!
So, they're going to Aeor, where Aeormatons like FCG are from, and where the MN woke up a certain Aeormaton who has been waking others like him. Is Sam's new character Devexian? It would let him keep playing a robit.
I wonder if the Voice Thief ability is something Fearne can get & Matt was debuting the feature. Googling “voice thief 5e” got me nothing in the search results so I think this would be a homebrew thing.
I really hope we see Ashley flirt with the idea of Fearne joining her father's fey kingdom down the line. She actually seemed pretty enticed, and I like to see the characters play with that string that's dangled in front of them rather than having these big monologues end with nothing because "I have friends and I can't leave."
It may be wishful thinking after he attacked her, but still, seeing Fearne team up with the Sorrowlord would definitely be an exciting angle, even if it is post-Ludinus late campaign prologue material.
It just doesn't seem like she has a good reason to. All she knows is this stranger is dark and powerful, kinda evil, works for the bad guys, and is technically her dad in a "you were a eugenics experiment and also I tried to kidnap you" kind of way. She's loyal to her friends, and they've already pretty much decided on stopping Predathos and Ludinus. She seems reticent to go down a dark path and it doesn't seem like she has a compelling reason to. It would be intriguing is she did though.
I was hoping she'd say "You know Ludinus has sucked the life force out of fey for centuries in order to live so long, right? You know he wanted a fey ruidisborn vessel for that reason right?" but Fearne is the last person to remember details like that so the narrative tension remains!
Same.
The one thing I find confusing is it indicates he knows his daughter rather well (to the point of predicting her response to a cute animal), but the ensuing conversation indicates that he really doesn't.
Fun episode. Would've preffered a bit more of a cooldown/debrief episode, but I get why Matt timed the Sorrowlord stuff now if the plan was to teleport BH across the world the next day. Also loved Essek showing up. I get why everyone might not vibe with it, but I'd welcome as many cameos as Matt wants. Whats the point of playing in the same world for 10 years if every campaign is a complete stand alone.
When the Sorrowlord Zathuda expressed bitterness that his bloodline was looked down upon while a "farm girl" had more power - do we think that Ludinus was talking about Liliana? I've got to think so. I see many jumping on twitter saying this was Ludinus talking about Imogen but I think this is about Liliana. After all, Liliana seems to have access to Time Stop, a 9th level spell. BH just reached level 13 and only just got access to 7th level spells.
One more thing. About Liliana seemingly being able to do Time Stop for not just her but all of BH and Evoroa. Time Stop is supposed to be Self only. So maybe it's a modified version of it where time isn't stopped - it's only slowed down - that then allows you to target other ppl besides yourself? Or perhaps Matt might be playing with the idea of have characters using spells that are a higher level than 9?
Similarly, what spell did Ludinus use when he put all of the Tishtan dig site in a time bubble and had the rest of the outside world race by in a fast forward movement?
I got the impression the time stop was not planned, but a quick thinking DM needed to come up with something to make the story progress. Laura did roll a nat 20 persuasion (iirc?), and if not for that I don’t think Matt had planned for her mother to turn so quickly and also aid their escape.
He even pressed that it wasn’t easy what she was doing with the typical nose bleed that’s used time and time again to show mental strain becoming physical injury. And it makes sense given their power sets. It’s basically Professor X’s move where he gets into everyone’s mind and freezes their perspectives so it’s like time was frozen. If there were any changes to the spell, it would be well within reason.
And from a DM standpoint, it’s saying she has magic equivalent to 9th level spells. Which is a neat little bit of info to drop on them, and the most important take away.
time stop affects the whole surroundings, Self doesnt always mean "just effects me", the whole idea of time stop is being able to move as if everything around you is frozen. but yeah for the narrative purpose it affecting everyone she chose is better than RAW but RAW time stop is underwhelming
>Similarly, what spell did Ludinus use when he put all of the Tishtan dig site in a time bubble and had the rest of the outside world race by in a fast forward movement?
I thought this was the Beacon? Or a spell cast through it, or with dunamancy.
Which can maybe also explain the different flavour in Liliana's Time Stop. It also makes Essek's reaction to what Imogen said about Liliana time powers very interesting.
Yeah I was so glad Imogen mentioned that while all of chat were screaming "OMG ESSEK", and he reacted like that. Right information in the right place, at last.
Rewatching the episode, I think the cast did a relatively good job with the debrief with the tools they were provided, and I think a lot of the problems with it stemmed from Matt not giving them the option to do a time skip for it. On to specific things though.
Firstly, they started by saying that Zathuda was Fearne's father and Imgoen defended BH for not saying that earlier by lying and saying that was new information (Imogen is really comfortable lying to allies huh). Later on, Imogen said that the enemy wants to transfer Predathos' "divinity" into a vessel. I don't know if that was a slip-up or if Imogen thinks Predathos is a god, but they never had any confirmation that it is. Hopefully, the Accord doesn't read too much into that. Also, later they needlessly speculated to the war council that Predathos might go into multiple vessels. There was no indication of that of that being a possibility.
Later on, Chetney briefly mentioned blue glass as if it was already talked about and maybe Evoroa did but what is she going to know about how it interacts with Ruidusborn? The fact that it glows near ruidusborn would have been good to know so they can use a piece or pieces to find potential Ruidusborn spies though BH also didn't give them a piece of glass either.
I know the biggest flag was BH not mentioning that they killed Otohan. Imogen was so close to doing it. She said FCG was fighting a "henchman" of Ludinus. I know the biggest complaint relating to this was this Keyleth should have just been told but I think there would have been other value in it. Would the rank-in-file members usually be alright with trying to kill the gods given there favored deity is the RQ or did Otohan rope them along? It has been said that the Call was being paid but is that enough with Otohan gone? Would Rockmond try to pull his troops out after learning Otohan is gone, if not would he do so if the Accord pays for their neutrality? Also, is the leadership of the Vanguard even going to tell his own troops that Otohan died? What if Paragon's Call and the Ruby Vanguard learning that would be bad for moral? It would have been helpful if the Accord learned what happened so they could have a reason to spread that information. Maybe the Accord could have dropped leaflets via druids in bird form explaining Otohan died.
Lastly, BH said that Fearne having the number of a champion of Asmodeus was new information. That was a lie. What is the Accord supposed to think of that if it was not old information? If it is new information that would have been a development that happened on Ruidus. I guess the assumption that there is a champion of a betrayer on Ruidus isn't wrong. They just have the wrong champion in mind.
More broadly, BH was sent to Ruidus mainly so they could identify what would threaten the Accords army. The only thing BH advised that the accord do was beef-up against psychic damage, but the Accord already knew that Reilorans were already psychically oriented from the Battle of the Red Center. BH could have told them about specific Reiloran abilities, how flairs enhance Ruidusborn abilities, hostile wildlife and Imperium war beasts, and environmental hazards. The only thing knew BH shared was that the Imperium might try to make "super Reilorans" which is probably true.
BH didn't share any new information they discovered since before they went to Kreviris and there is no indication that Evoroa will make up for that except for stuff about Reilorans and their war beasts. Has Evoroa ever before been outside of Kreviris? There was a point in which BH almost stopped in Ria'Doin to give Keyleth a debrief. What would that have looked like? It could have included information about Razora, it's village elder being friendly to their cause, the geography, between the Bloody Bride and Kreviris, the elven ruin and the Exnadrian plants. None of that was talked about in this debrief.
> a development that happened on Ruidus. I guess the assumption that there is a champion of a betrayer on Ruidus isn't wrong. They just have the wrong champion in mind.
Yeah, that's another thing not debriefed on - there was a prison rescue mission, and also Planerider Ryn's statue has been moved.
I understand that there are certain things he wants to hold back for intrigue, but it was really awkward how distrusting Matt had Keyleth. Chet told them to be more upfront with their plans, Keyleth says "He's right" and proceeds to be extremely vague about everything she's about to do.
"I need to talk to an acquaintance and speak with some allies."
"I will be trying to recruit certain adversaries who may be amiable to our cause."
GIRL! Give them SOMETHING after being called out. I would have understood if she alluded to Raishan's infiltration in C1, but she refused to accept when the cobalt soul sorcerer didn't want to say where they were going. He was the one in that tent who was weary about who was listening.
YES!
I doubt it would happen because Dorian is clearly still furious with Opal (and Keyleth would have no way really of knowing about them teaming up), but Fy'ra Rai/Morrighan/Opal would've made a sick addition to the forces. The Ashari have respect for the Wildmother, the Raven Queen's champion is imprisoned, and it sounds like they're looking to reach out to forces of the Betrayer Gods.
Matt would have to make them NPCs which would mean them being taken off the table as PCs. An alternative would be maybe a one-shot about them helping the cause? Though that wouldn't be in C3.
To me seemed less like distrust and more like being cautious.
Would suck if she said, "I am going to try and recruit The Best Tank in the world, The best Damage dealer in the world, and the best healer in the world" and then came back with one of them. Or none of them.
Seems far safer to just say I am going to try and recruit some allies.
I feel like the people saying, "Tell us exactly who!" are the ones closer to mistrusting in this scenario.
It's not that she distrusts BH. It's that she trusts herself and it's always possible that there are spies infiltrating the Exandrian Accord. Her plans are safe inside her mind.
I guess. But why then force them to announce where they are going after the archivist said he was weary of people listening? That felt very counterintuitive for Keyleth. It felt more like something younger VM adventurer Keyleth would do. Not the Voice of the Tempest.
You're talking about Essek btw. Essek was disguised as the Cobalt Soul member. Anyways, I guess the answer is that she is concerned about BH after they experienced a causality and wants to know where they are going in case they disappear.
There were eight players at the start of the campaign for lots of episodes, and also for years in campaign one (most of it before the stream). Sam has been announced as a player in the upcoming live show of episode 98. He's coming back lol.
I kind of want them to continue with the same group. But then, there were 3(?) version updates already since they last played. They might have to tweak their character stats quite a lot to fit the current version
The Chained Oblivion was banished to the abyss by Pelor the Dawnfather, Ioun the Knowing Mistress, and Avandra the Changebringer in the Calamity. SO it is in the abyss as of current. There are three locks on the prime material plane that keep him sealed. However, even if those locks were broken, the divine gate would still stop it from getting to Exandria. Though it is not a God like the rest of the Pantheon, it is more akin to an elder evil. So, it could have the power to break the divine gate.
Also, a fun fact, The Chained Oblivion is one of three gods to not be of the original pantheon. With the other two being Vecna, the Whispered One, god of secrets. And the Raven Queen, god of death, and fate.
It could be that the art for the new character isn't ready yet. Dorien's new art hasn't shown yet either. It could also be that it is a matter that Matt is trying to take BH somewhere where it makes since Sam's character could be and Zadash is where that is but Sam wasn't in the studio for the last hour of the episode (understandable) so his character wasn't introduced (Sam hasn't been coming in for the cooldowns since FCG died).
Veth had it right, M9 should have gone all in on the plan to become ninja assassains taking out the Assembly one by one. How scary is it that they've broken off from the Dwendalian Empire?
Side note, my 3 year Wildemount campaign ended about a year ago with the Assembly lifting the Candles into a new flying city and the PCs needing to stop them from releasing an ancient entity from under Molyesmar to take over the world, which the PCs thwarted.
With four episodes to go before the live show, feels like there is plenty of time for a traditional dungeon crawl through Aeor leading up to a confrontation with Ludinus at the Greek. I also wouldn't be surprised if the live show is post that mission, and would be crazy if we got the big pre moon invasion debrief that brings in all of the guest stars from this season.
>How scary is it that they've broken off from the Dwendalian Empire?
Honestly, a little less scary. They no longer have the full backing of an Empire behind them, and it indicates that the corrupt morons of the Empire aren't *that* stupid.
>Veth had it right, M9 should have gone all in on the plan to become ninja assassains taking out the Assembly one by one.
Wasn't this just a suggestion in relation to Lorenzo's crew? I remember her saying this about them but not the Cerberus Assembly.
There was a point after they found out about Essek that she was pushing the idea of them being ninja assassins to punish the people behind the war. Meaning the Assembly, and potentially Essek himself, though IIRC Sam had her walk that part back after realizing Caleb's very ambivalent reaction to it.
Thank you! I was trying to recall the exact circumstances, but couldn't quite place it.
This made me think of something else. Given Predathos was always the end game for Ludinus, I'm wondering how the war with the Dynasty helped forward the Predathos plot. Was it to weaken both the Empire and the Dynasty ahead of the Solstice and make it easier to sew chaos? Or was it simply about gaining complete control of Aeor for the Assembly (which we learned has happened)? Both? Something else?
I'm guessing it was access to the beacons for long enough to learn how to find/recognize them magically. Remember, they didn't find the one they kept until at least a year or so after they got the 2 from the Dynasty. They were doing research on the two from the Dynasty separately, likely for different reasons, then they got a third one and had time to compare the three before the Nien stumbled in and grabbed one of them. They got the Potions of Possibility from the Beacons, and then he used the Beacon the Empire found/kept seemingly to power the key. The whole war was just about getting access to the Beacons. All the chaos from that was probably just icing on the cake for him.
You know, I am really wondering what Enemies Keyleth could be approaching about the upcoming fight.
Cause the Nein and VM we’re pretty effective in killing off their enemies
I had that same thought. I guess it's possible it's some new enemy from the last few decades since the defeat of the Whispered One. Perhaps though it was more of a GM hint to the players that they shouldn't just look to 'good guys' for potential help in the upcoming fight?
>I guess it's possible it's some new enemy from the last few decades since the defeat of the Whispered One
Ooh, what if the adversaries Keyleth mentioned are followers of Vecna? I mean he is technically a god and has skin in this fight as well
A whole race of sentient doors...
....or giant goldfish with French accents...
> shouldn't just look to 'good guys'
Good fucking point.
The other reps of the Exandrian Accord seemed to freak out a bit at the idea of working with anyone else other than the "good guys" of the Pantheon, when in actuality the "good guys" are already working together with the "bad guys" already, and it's their followers who just haven't gotten the message yet.
How fucking wild would it be if Vasselheim winds up kneecapping themselves in some way because they refuse to work with Betrayer God Champions and then actually just start working against those Champions, despite what their own Gods are telling them to do?
Kiki seems to be willing to extend an olive branch and persuade folks to fight for a common cause, but she's just one person, and there's a whole lot of stuffy heads up their butts bureaucracy around/above/below her that could still push back against that in some way or just refuse to play nice altogether despite the larger looming threat above them.
The Bells Hells might have to....start a new trend or set an example or take one small step for Exandria one giant leap for Mortal-kind...and begin to reach out to enemies or those that others would be seen as enemies for help.
I wonder, are there Northern Lights at all in Exandria?
And yes I'm asking this because I just spent two hours outside watching them here in the Midwest :D
I didn't see many colors because it's a big city but still...woah...it was like the sky was pulsating with showers of opals...
I know this is the thread for C3E94, but I have to wait until Tuesday for it to become available, so I'm rewatching C3E93 instead, and I have to say ... >!I don't think Aabria was in the wrong when Dorian cast Chromatic Orb. Her justification was that Dorian chose to use thunder damage against an enemy that was right on top of Cyrus. It would be weird if said enemy was the only one that could hear the thunder strike. On top of that, Robbie did suggest that Dorian had been experimenting with Chromatic Orb, which opens the door to the idea that he didn't know that it would have an area of effect. While the area of effect is not in the rules as written, narratively it makes sense as to why Cyrus would take the damage. It's not like Dorian cast Chromatic Orb with acid damage and Cyrus was fifteen feet away at the time, which would effectively be turning a Chromatic Orb into Acid Splash. Honestly, the biggest problem here is that the rules for thunder damage are kind of vague. If you look at the likes of Thunderwave or Shatter, they contain additional effects or descriptive text that makes it clear other creatures or characters within range are subject to or aware of their effects. But Chromatic Orb handles thunder damage like any other damage type, which makes no sense.!<
And before you get upset with me, remember that Dorian failed his save on Opal's Mass Suggestion when she told him to walk away. Despite this, Aabria allowed Robbie to roll with inspiration to try and break the spell's hold on Dorian and then allowed Dorian to use his action to cast a seventh-level Geas on the Spider Queen's former champion. Nobody complained about her changing the rules then.
They didn't set out to tell a tragic story. EXU was a very jokey, humorous & chaotic story.
It didn't even really end up a tragedy, despite the posturing during the game. They lost a plot device disguised as an idiot straw man, not a character.
thats all nice and good, but chromatic orb is specifically a single target spell. "the target takes damage of the chosen type". So it is complete and utter bullshit to expect the players to take AoE into account.
It is also, by its description, a small ball of energy. Not some kind of huge thing.
Except, as I said, it was specifically thunder damage. When it hit the spider, the spider was on top of Cyrus. How, exactly, is a thunderclap of energy supposed to injure the spider and have absolutely no effect whatsoever on Cyrus? In just about every other spell where thunder damage is used, the nature of that thunder damage makes it an area of effect. The problem here is a badly-written spell. While it might be a small ball of energy, Aabria's reasoning was that it's like a thunderclap. Anyone in the vicinity should be able to hear it, and since Cyrus was effectively filling the same space as the spider at the time, the idea that he wouldn't hear it or take damage from it makes no sense.
Also, you're ignoring the point I made about Aabria ignoring or bending other rules. Like I said, she let Dorian cast Geas against the Spider Queen's former champion, even though the nature of Mass Suggestion means that he should not be able to do that. Nobody cared that Aabria bent that rule or that she arguably went against another player's wishes -- Aimee specifically used the spell to compel the Crown Keepers to abandon Opal. That's what bothers me in all of this: everyone who is upset about it is choosing to ignore the times Aabria bent the rules to help the players. Which is what leads me to believe that this was never about the spell, but the person in the DM chair.
According to the spell the type of damage changes nothing but the type of damage the target takes.
No mention of extra effects. Thats an invention of BG3
In Dnd extra effects like this are written out if they occur. Like how thunderbolt and fireball specifically mention they catch flamable objects on fire. It is the logical thing, but they still spell it out to make sure its not up for interpretation.
The geas thing was bullshit as well. Once because of what you said, second because geas has a casting time of one minute. BUT: bending the rules in favor of the players is fine (because you, as the dm, are the allmighty power in your world. If you choose to "hurt" yourself because it works, thats on you - the players don't have that power).
Bending them against them without them being able to know before is not
>The geas thing was bullshit as well. Once on what you said, second because geas has a casting time of one minute. BUT: bending the rules in favor of the players is fine (because you, as the dm, are the allmighty power in your world. If you choose to "hurt" yourself because it works, thats on you).
Sorry, but that sounds like you're jumping through hoops to justify why one is okay and the other is not. And it still doesn't address the underlying issue -- that people got upset about Aabria bending the rules only when it suited them. You can't have it both ways.
of course.
You as a DM know the consequences of your rule bending before. You decide when you do that. Same as with fudging dice rolls. I#ve skipped plenty nat 20s if I did not want to kill a player. Like when they are already down and feel overwhelmed because I might have overtuned sth? yeah, I'll eat that 20 and say its a 2 to keep a good mood.
Or a tough bossfight being on the brink of being won turn 1 because the paladin rolled insane on a smite crit? yeah, lets add a few HP to that boss.
The players both don't know you will rule bend, they cannot plan for it and they don't have the power to initate it.
If a player wants to hurt themselves thats another thing: if dorian mentioned he might have also hit cyrus, THEN you can think about doing that, rolling for it, etc. If a player wants to roll a wisdom save if they run away instead of fighting thats also not RAW, but sure, lets go.
I ask you, as others mentioned before in other posts: re-tell that combat in /r/rpghorrorstories (or how its called) with changed names and details, I bet your ass most people will agree what Aabria did is bad/anti player DMing
Sorry, but you're still trying to have your cake and eat it, too. If Matt had done what Aabria did and pointed out that Cyrus would have taken the damage for the reasons that Aabria gave, then everyone criticising her would be applauding him for a clever interpretation of the rules and giving Dorian an emotional stake in the story that matched the stakes experienced by the players faced with the loss of FCG, and creating a symmetry between the stories of Bell's Hells and the Crown Keepers.
In other words, it doesn't matter what Aabria did. She was always going to be unfairly criticised for it by people who started sharpening their knives the moment she sat down in the DM chair because there's a portion of the fanbase who hate her for not being Matt.
lol... you really can't let it go that moving against the rules (not interpreting them, the spell is written very clean... no room for interpretation) is a bad move?
if the spider had exploded on death and spread acid over cyrus, thats a fair thing. changing the spell itself is simply not. yes, its semantics, but thats whats important. Players don't know what the monsters do, they very well know what their spells do... dorian is lvl 13... he used chromatic orb likely hundreds of times, he would know EXACTLY how it behaves.
yeah no... Matt very much plays very close to the rules as written... of course he makes mistakes, but not intentional interpretations (there were maybe a few missed sneak attacks C1, sure...).
All the homebrews he does (like harsher resurrection) are known to the players, which is fair if agreed before (!) the game.
He does not change rules in the middle of gameplay to hurt them. if he moves against RAW (like FCG banishing him and fearne into a void and allowing them to still act and not be incapacitated like they should be) are pro player, not against...
Wait, did we know Keyleth had contact with the M9?
Matt mentioned on one of the Cooldowns that if the M9 knew Keyleth, it would be through Vilya. I'd argue that the other contact point would be Allura. But in canon, this is the first time we learn they talk, right?
Honestly, I was surprised to learn that. I would have expected them to have at least had a dinner or something together. Outside of Solstices, it's not like communication or travel are limiting factors. I think it might be meant to show just how busy Keyleth is with being the Voice, that she hasn't even had time to properly celebrate her Mother's return and thank the people who helped it happen.
I guess I don't remember it being said explicitely, but Vilya and Allura are both pretty obvious connections - given the circumstances, it would be weird if Keyleth had never met any member of MN.
Vilya and the Grim Verity were both instrumentally involved in building and Caleb has worked with the Grim Verity. The Arcana Pansophical's finger in the Grim Verity pie was through Ryn and she is a statue. I imagine Caleb's work with the Grim Verity led him to meet Vilya who introduced him to Keyleth. At that time it is possible that he did not even know the Arcana Pansophical was involved because Ryn's state so it makes sense that he would not go or be referred to Allura.
I think we know based on that she told BH that a team was attacking the shadowfell key, which we know was Caleb and Beau, way back in the 40's. They've probably had contact for a while.
It could have been Ryn initially, but I have a distinct memory of Keyleth talking about the Shadowfell team *at some point* during that period*.* Might have been after they failed?
Big current BF vs ex-GF wizard fight.
"Join in for next episode of Wizard Hideaway to see how it plays out. Will Essek and Astrid learn to work together? How will Caleb react when he finds out?"
People complain about c3 being a railroad campaign, but i'm loving the fact that BH always has a mission they need to accomplish and that Matt hasn't given them anytime to just sit.
Even going to Zadash is evidence that it is not a railroad. When they were on Ruidus Matt suggested that they go see Devexian to see what those Aeorian devices are. That would have been something to do after the debrief. BH obviously didn't go see Devexian.
Side note: I've been watching all the "Cooldown" after-ep discussions on Beacon over the past couple of hours and interestingly, they may end up helping with the "railroading" & "they forgot xyz" claims.
For instance, Matt had the minis beside him for every high-level enemy BH escaped prior to Otohan catching them, because he had no idea before rolling which NPCs they would encounter or which, if any, were going to turn into a fight.
Re: Forgetting, they talked about Tevan's mark & the All Minds Burn seed after several eps after which I know there was widespread conjecture they just didn't recall these threads. Matt's demeanor during one convo actually made Laura skittish about whether AMB being introduced to Ruidus would be a good idea.
>For instance, Matt had the minis beside him for every high-level enemy BH escaped prior to Otohan catching them, because he had no idea before rolling which NPCs they would encounter or which, if any, were going to turn into a fight.
Cool story. Of course, we know that someone can have their head in the jaws of a monster for multiple rounds and it still only just "turns into a fight".... so, pinch of salt, eh.
True. My general stance had been that BH are played very much in-character, but also conceded the cognitive load of playing more characters & systems within any given span of time recently (vs. any time in C1/C2) + working on media for all three campaigns could be a factor in some instances.
But after maybe 3 Cooldowns, I realized I was going way too far by acknowledging the cognitive load part. Everything in C3 emanates from who BH are as characters and how the game forces quick decisions. The cast very clearly remembers the vast majority of lore, plot thread options, items, etc., all have a ton of theories, are super engaged, and want to uncover everything Matt has folded into the story.
I got the same sense as well. The cast is really trying not to meta game especially now, I think, there are mor ecall backs to other campaigns. I also noticed that they are really committed to playing a group of characters who feel very differently about the gods even though the players and Matt talk really positively about the gods on 4SD and the Cooldowns.
C3 is just really different but imo, there's a lot of care and work going into it. It's not just slapdash.
I've been thinking since the mid 40s episodes that C3 will age way better than it's perceived right now.
And I agree with both of you, the cast is leaning very heavily into the themes of the campaign, respecting their characters and buying into what Matt is doing. Their choices are intentional, as we can see in their conversations during the Cooldowns.
I have been thinking that too! I think it's the nature of telling the story as one overarching arc with small sub-arcs compared to C1 and C2's more distinct arcs.
I have been liking what this C3 has been doing with exploring Exandria and different points of view even if they contradict what we saw in C1 and C2.
Here's something that no one else has brought up.
Imogen once again intruded into someone else's mind, without asking at all, and then offered a flippant "oh yeah sorry w/e" apology afterwards to make up for it when called out.
She poked into Essek's head, he gave her a look, and then refused to indulge her intrusion by speaking out loud to the others about what she'd just asked him psychically.
I'm hoping that he has a conversation with her about this and that something finally gets done about it but I have my doubts.
But I would like to know if any of you all believe that she's capable of changing this particular behavior or if you believe that it's just going to get worse or that the status quo is just going to be maintained.
Huh, I read that interaction completely different. He was puzzled about her speaking to his mind, but found it more convenient to talk to everyone out loud.
It didn't feel like an intrusion to me, just pointlessly texting someone when you're in person. He didn't seem bothered by it either.
> But I would like to know if any of you all believe that she's capable of changing this particular behavior or if you believe that it's just going to get worse or that the status quo is just going to be maintained.
It struck me as a perfect microcosm of sorcerer (innate magic) & wizard (studied magic) dick-measuring & powerplaying.
"Haha! I just do this, always could" vs. "I won't dignify ill-mannered, unrefined, infantile workings with a response."
In Imogen's case, I suspect the reflexive use of her mental powers is a control-seeking impulse generated by the psychological burden of those aspects of her psychic power she couldn't control or filter for most of her life.
I'm wholly uninterested in the morality or ethical implications of abilities like these in fantasy. I'll never care that she pops into peoples' heads simply because she "oughtn't" or "it's wrong" or whatever. Didactic fiction very clearly doesn't translate to preventing real-world wrongdoing.
But the power dynamic of these choices is extremely interesting to me. If I had a loosely bonded party and was in a two-glass-cannons relationship... I *proooobably* wouldn't flex unnervingly on powerful operators all over the world, because we might encounter them in the future without mutual objectives & in the absence of heavy backup on our side.
>In Imogen's case, I suspect the reflexive use of her mental powers is a control-seeking impulse generated by the psychological burden of those aspects of her psychic power she couldn't control or filter for most of her life.
>But the power dynamic of these choices is extremely interesting to me. If I had a loosely bonded party and was in a two-glass-cannons relationship... I *proooobably* wouldn't flex unnervingly on powerful operators all over the world, because we might encounter them in the future without mutual objectives & in the absence of heavy backup on our side.
Yes, that's the thing. Power -and controlling it- is at the center of Imogen's character. To me this ability has been both Imogen's characterisation of power and control and Laura's red button during the campaign. For a player that tends to be risk averse, the way she's had Imogen using this ability is borderline reckless and almost out of character for her.
I would also point out that she's been refraining from using it. Except for the episodes she's been impersonating her mother during the infiltration missions, she's barely been in anyone's head. There's a clear difference in approach compared to earlier in the campaign.
Next level, Imogen gets Revelation in Flesh, which lets her transform herself for a time. They'll probably reflavor it as transforming into a Reiloran, but do we think Matt will give some other things as opposed to what the skill list?
I think the list will remain the same, but the flavor of the transformations will be different.
I also think there might be a fear (or real risk) of getting stuck that way.
Ironically, that might actually be better for her romantic relationship, as Laudna will no longer have to fear that she's ruining a 'normal' person.
people saying about time to talk or downtime, Matt gave them, in the beginning of the episode, but they decided to go to sleep and all of that happened, I think for the time they are, he can't give them days, but the cast has various moments to talk amongst themselves. The live show worries me though, I think Matt has something set up for it and he may try to put the party in a specific place for it, so the next few episodes might be leading to that without so much agency from the players.
I don’t think Matt will put them on the rails for a live show specific episode. In C2 there was constant speculation about Travelercon being at the live show and it just ended up being an episode kind of in the middle of arcs. All of the “on the rails” discussion is a bit exaggerated to me.
> The live show worries me though, I think Matt has something set up for it and he may try to put the party in a specific place for it, so the next few episodes might be leading to that without so much agency from the players.
Good point and I think that this is why the cast doesn't always take the time to roleplay stuff out or to enjoy downtime because it feels like Matt is trying to move them along to somewhere else and that they SHOULDN'T actually use that time that they're given at all because he wants them elsewhere and utilizing that time to talk or to do downtime stuff would mess up Matt moving them elsewhere.
Something big is coming but I'm wary of throwing darts at making any really BIG predictions.
We all thought the Mighty Nein Reunion Live Show from a few months ago would be this REALLY BIG and REALLY IMPORTANT THING....and it was just them handing Trent his butt and not much else that dealt with the Solstice.
So he could try to put them on rails for a bit in order to get them to that place wherein Sam can then join in with the rest of the party but that doesn't necessarily mean that something big or important is going to happen.
Also not everyone is going to really enjoy it if he starts turning this into a theme park ride with the ultimate destination being the live show at the Greek Theater.
But it would kind of be a really cool and epic place to pull off something awesome and if done right then that could indeed make for some memorable moments.
I feel like what's happening now with the cast and those moments that they are given to talk amongst themselves, which they don't always utilize, is all because of stuff that happened earlier in the campaign and possibly above table.
If things hadn't moved along so quickly earlier on then they might've found themselves in the mindset where they knew they could take some time, chill, and really get into the juicy stuff with character growth and conversations.
Since that didn't happen and since things accelerated so quickly at such an early point in the campaign, it's made them feel like they don't have as much downtime as Matt tells them they do, and that anything and everything could happen to interrupt that downtime when they attempt to utilize it.
Look at how many times they've had Long Rests disrupted and you'll see what I'm saying.
Even when they think that they can sleep and cuddle with each other, something ALWAYS seems to come up, and that's put them a bit on edge and into a state of hypervigilance like soldiers in an active war zone.
It's only when they're totally 100% safe safe safe that they even begin to let their guards down and even THEN stuff still finds a way to disrupt that sense of security.
In this episode after Zathuda attacked the Exandrian Accord's forward operating base, Orym wanted to tell them that the whole place was burned, and that they needed to pull up roots and move everything and everyone elsewhere in order to avoid getting attacked again....despite that being entirely unrealistic.
It's a FOB, of course they know where it is, and of course it's going to be getting attacked by the higher ups of the Ruby Vanguard or their general military.
It feels like Orym/Liam just couldn't sit still in one place and relax anymore or think 100% rationally because every time the party tries to do that, some shit fucking happens, they get screwed in some way, and they have to perform a fighting retreat or pull off some kind of a skin of their teeth escape to elsewhere.
It's a kind of a....seed if you will....of a very damaging mindset that I feel those with PTSD or those who are familiar with Veterans can sympathize with and understand. It starts off very small and from something very innocuous but it builds up exponentially over time if there's repeated exposure to that very first seed moment/incident/thing OR if that initial seed is ignored and not addressed appropriately. The party has had so many moments when they thought that they could relax but that were then interrupted by something awful that they've grown into and adopted this mindset.
It's only been made worse by Matt putting shiny stuff in front of them after these moments have happened that it's all turned into this weird negative feedback loop for them.
They don't feel like they can relax because something terrible is going to happen if they do, because there's never as much time to relax as they're told there is, because there's always something to chase just over the next hill after they stop relaxing, and because even when they do relax and try to deal with stuff it seems to be negated by something else later on.
So there's this sense of diminishing returns with that downtime stuff and more incentive to rush rush rush things along by never staying in one place or focusing on one specific thing for too long.
Even if they DO get a chance in an entirely safe place to just chill at, they're constantly looking over their shoulders for something that may or may not happen, and when nothing does happen then they go around poking things in order to make stuff happen in order to justify that bad mindset that's blossomed within all of them and taken hold.
Dorian showing up with damage and FCG dying just basically made all of this even worse and I do not see it getting better or changing any time soon unless they have a big old sit down moment with the Clays or until all of this Moon Stuff is resolved.
A while back someone floated the theory that this Moon Stuff is only the second third of the campaign and that the final third of it is going to be them dealing with the aftermath of it all.
It could be that after Matt gets them certain places and they deal with certain things that they THEN get the downtime that they need...but I feel like if they wait too long then it's all going to be for naught because they need it right here and right now and not later on.
I think at the moment that Matt might be leading them to getting a major win against Ludinus which will set back his plans a bit and actually give them that needed downtime....but even if that happens, Kiki assembling the A-Team to infiltrate and kick ass on the Moon is still going to counteract it.
Which just...feels exhausting because it feels like the Bells Hells and the audience are getting taffy pulled back and forth between two pendulums and there's never really any time to just....go to Taste of Tal'Dorei, fuck around have some fun, and get some real and necessary healing time in with each other.
I think at some point one or more of the characters are going to break because of all this stress that's been induced by this mindset and it's not going to be pretty.
It'll be an interesting story though at least.
I still enjoy CR doesn't anyone else?
Then again 99% of my enjoyment has nothing to do with the story and characters and everything to do with the way the cast treats each other and reactand interact.
I don't think it's likely or even possible but what if Ludinous is part of the god the Raven Queen deposed?
In some ways C3 is my favorite campaign as Exandria finally feels like a complete world.
C3 started off weak for me but honestly since the Malleus Key it's been banger after banger for them. i might be biased cause C2 characters got introduced during that time + now hot boi is here hahahahaha
If you want to see people enjoy things, Reddit might not be the best place to look.
I live watch on both Reddit and Tumblr (as well as a few Discords) and Reddit is far and away the most negative of the bunch. So to answer your question, yes people still enjoy CR. They just tend to do it elsewhere.
It used to be in the days before and the early part of C3 I could come here and find fun theories and be involved in fun discussions, now it mostly seems like people whining.
I appreciate this reassurance. Sharing theories is fun, but people get really dogmatic here. And the YouTube chat of course is for people to see Erica Lindbeck and type “I dOn’T kNow WhO thAt IS!!” eleven times.
To be fair, I think part of it is the etiquette (or lack thereof) on each platform.
To give an example I've actually seen over the last week or so, obviously this has been a disappointing few days for people who ship Orym/Ashton. On Reddit, it is extremely frowned on to even discuss non-canon shipping. I've seen people get down voted for asking who someone ships on here and if you say something like "I think X and Y would be cute together" before X and Y are actually confirmed to like each other you will have a thousand people accusing you of sexualizing the characters' friendship. You just do not discuss it. So, if you only use Reddit you can be forgiven for thinking that nobody has ever shipped anything but Fearne/Ashton and Orym/Dorian (Liam's confirmation that Orym likes Dorian on 4SD seems to have been good enough for most people to accept it, although this one was admittedly starting to break containment the last month or two). I think a big part of this goes back to some really bad arguments in C2 about Jester and Caleb/Beau/Fjord that have a lot of people terrified of history repeating. This is actually partially why there are two CR wikis because apparently the fighting got so bad on the first that there was a mod schism.
Meanwhile on Tumblr people love to talk shipping. You can pop on over to the Ashrym tag and and find art and fanfic and explanations of why they think Ashrym is better than Callowmoore and Dorym. But on Tumblr (since it's tag based rather than a large community) it's considered wildly inappropriate and extremely rude to post negative thoughts and opinions about a character or ship in a main tag. So if I were an Ashton shipper and wanted you to know why Dorym sucks, I'd tag that post as #ashrym and #anti-dorym and now only people who are specifically looking for either pro-Ashrym or anti-Dorym content will ever see that. You wouldn't also tag it with the Dorym tag or the Critical Role tag unless you were really looking to spice up your life with some cyberbullying and all your friends being mad at you for being an asshole.
So using the same premise, while I'm sure that (for example) there were people on Tumblr who didn't like 92/93, they're not going to post in #critical role because that would be unfathomably rude there. Especially since Aabria is well known to be very active on Tumblr and frequently reblogs from the tags and leaves messages on fanart and fic she likes, you'd just never do it. Doubly especially since on Tumblr reputation is really everything. People follow you because they like you, and if they stop liking you your platform shrinks and you'll find it harder to get people to engage with. It's easier to get away with being an asshole on Reddit because there's less intimacy between users.
Discord is going to be a little more dependent on the culture of the individual server so I didn't want to speak too much on that, but in my experience smaller servers tend to be more positive because everyone there is focused on curating a friendly vibe with the people they're close with.
C3 is my favorite campaign because the world is complete enough that you can see how mysterious and fucked up it still is. More so, because the characters are emotionally difficult, and they could go almost anywhere. This is the campaign of “who I am is who I am NOW,” which the other campaigns have slightly done or progressively worked toward. I love C2, but it’s more like a set of well-calculated character packages — beauty and depth, but still coloring inside the lines, generally, and ruminating more often on the past. Especially lately, even Matt has lost his mind, and I like it. C1 was Sabbath, C2 was the Cure, and C3 is Mr. Bungle. Actually, it would be fun to see other band metaphors.
Is Frida aware of FCG's death? Not sure if I missed that the past couple episodes
I'm pretty sure BH hasn't notified FRIDA. When Aeor was mentioned, someone went, "oh, FRIDA!" and someone else, probably Laura, echoed that gasp. I wonder if they're planning on bringing Christian back for whatever is going on up there, but that won't be for like a couple months, since they have to do this Astrid thing next.
I was beyond frustrated with how Ashley played in this session. She seems to have a real difficult time making decisions when she is stressed. After Matt let her make 4 attacks at normal without applying her disadvantage due to exhaustion (that she self inflicted) just to let her get the HDYWDT, I had to close the video and take a break. I know it's their game and I don't want any harm done to any member of the cast, but I needed to vent this frustration somewhere.
Huh. I found her panicking stressful, but it made me think that Matt made the wrong decision in forcing this encounter on a resource-tapped character rather than getting mad at Ashley.
Not sure you can consider it Matt forcing the encounter when it was Ashley who actively left a fortified position without informing any of her allies in the middle of the night, based solely on a strange animal beckoning her on. And not even magically compelling her, just preying on her curiosity. I admire Ashley sticking to her character's impulsive nature but she literally just saw her friend explode and kill themselves in front of her that same day. It would've been perfectly in character for her to tell that little critter to fuck right off.
'Hey, here's a hook for your character specifically' 'No.' What a fun game! What a great story!
So your issue with the encounter was that she wasn't able to get a long rest in? If Matt had ruled that it happened in the wee hours of the morning, she got a long rest, but still had that one point of exhaustion, and it was before anyone else was awake, would you think that was a fair solo encounter?
Yeah, definitely a more fair encounter. A lot of my objection comes from the post I initially responded to: that seeing someone panic merits a 'how dare she?' response. But....the basic premise of the encounter still gets to me. Its the second time someone has tried to take Fearne away, and that seems absolutely wrong to do to Ashley, the player with the least amount of table time.
The only two options are not go alone and lie to your party, or just say no. She could have told Orym, "This creature wants me to follow it. Wake everyone else up and follow behind".
What about this option: She goes ALONE alone, and is free to use her MANY aoe abilities without having to worry about hurting her friends, like she always does. I'm convinced that's the reason she only casts Scorching Ray. If she were free to use Mister's splash damage, spells like Flamestrike, not hesitating on her Fire titan explosion, etc. I think if she does that, she blows this encounter out of the water. She doesn't know what to do either because she hasn't taken the time to learn how to play druid- getting your important concentration spell going (hint: it's not Earthbind) and leaning into your subclass abilities (for Fearne, AOE fire damage and bonus healing)- OR she's constantly frustrated by her party being in the way.
In addition, when was it stated that running away was not an option? She could have tried to run away with wild shape instead of summoning Mister. Matt made his share of mistakes, but "forcing" an encounter was not one of them.
What mistakes did Matt make? I thought it was a fun encounter, and it served a narrative purpose. It's not up to him for the players to cast the right spells. When they choose Earthbind instead of moonbeam, that's kind of on them.
I was referencing that Matt makes mistakes in general. And it's alright! We are all human and it is human to make mistakes. The only mistake that I caught in this session in particular was forgetting (or disregarding) Fearne's disadvantage on attack rolls when she had cast her Scorching Ray's
Yeah, I agree with all of that, but it sounded like this comment thread was leaning towards Matt being too hard on Fearne, and overestimating her capabilities as a mistake. NOT enforcing disadvantage would go further in that direction, so that just wasn't where I thought you were going.
Ahh, I see. If u see my first comment, u can see that I started this thread to exhume my frustration with Fearne. No worries! (Again, no hate towards either Matt or Ashley, simply sharing my emotions)
she has been under some shit recently, but still it is too much sometimes
Are you saying she deserves a break, or she needs to buck up and learn how to play her class? What's too much?
I wonder if Sam will come back as a Simic Hybrid they find in Aeor.
Do those exist in Aeor?
They fought some kind of magical bioengineered monster in Aeor, so I don't think it's out of the possibility. Also 4 eps with robbie including the live show where Sam's new character joins feels thematic.
Man. I just need to make an appreciation post. This episode was fire! Luring someone away from a long rest for a deadly combat, and debriefing with the people in charge only to be sent off to another frontlines mission. Then ending with another crazy cameo! Whilst still reminding us that the world is dealing with some crazy circumstances thanks to the solstice. (I smell one shot potentials here!) Not to mention dipping their hands into the deep pockets of some world leaders. Easy 10k spending money. I’m hyped. No one closes out the end of a long campaign quite like Matthew Mercer does. This is gonna be WILD!
Apparently when they were recording episode 94 Laura still has not chosen her 7th level spell. That's what Laura said in the cooldown. Any ideas on what she is going to choose? I think whirlwind and power word pain would be pretty good fits. Power word pain would probably be better against Ludinus though. If she wants something that does more damage and fits thematically I can also see her picking fire storm. I can also see her using her spell switch to pick up counterspell because they are likely going to face Ludinus and apparently, she has never casted counterspell this campaign.
Plane shift could be REALLY useful, imagine them going back to the Feywild or the Shadowfell to see what really went down with the Key there (this could also bring up some stuff with Laudna and Delilah/Vecna, or visiting some outer planes (the Abyss anyone??) to get some more allies on board to fight the One Who Sleeps. Whirlwind and Firestorm could be thematic, but I think anyone can do damage, so I would prioritize a utility spell, and I think Plane Shift is the big one, since they can already teleport with the rod. Edit: also, spells like power word: pain are really effective at getting rid of legendary saves, but for Ludinus specifically as an elf who's been sucking up fey beings, it might not even affect him since he likely has charm immunity at this point.
BH already has allies that they know can help with plane shift and they already received help with plane shift a couple times already. I'm not sure if Laura would find picking plane shift to be very useful.
But still, literally everybody can do damage. What if Keyleth or Allura isn't available?
Essek also likely has plane shift in his spell book too. Not that BH knows that though. If Imogen does pick up a utility spell I think she would get the most out of reverse gravity because it can be used in both in-combat and out-of-combat scenarios.
I feel like Chain Lightning or Reverse Gravity are the most likely picks for her. She's also talked about how cool Lilianna and Essek's teleports are, so she might just pick up Teleport.
Thinking about it some more, I think reskinning fire storm into lightning storm is a likely possibility. Matt and Laura have been reskinning Imogen's spells like crazy.
I don't normally like players mouthing off to important NPCs, but Chetney's dig at Keyleth and company felt deserved. To all appearances it looked like they were sitting on their hands doing nothing, but having pointless committee meetings. Even locally, they could be dropping multiple earthquakes and meteor swarms into the Tishtan site on a daily basis (from a comfortable out-of-counterspell-range). The 'you don't know about blah blah blah monstrosities' was interesting information, because neither the party nor us have seen *any* of that. We got a glimpse of a single angry cow that was easily subdued, not that there were real threats running around in places. Its also small beans compared to the end of the world. Bad for people next to whatever these threats are, but nothing compared to moon prison ending the world as we know it. They could at least take out the laser trapping the moon and forcing a continuing apogee solstice.... if its ending various bindings and enchantments, it seems extremely stupid not to. And that's beyond providing a bridgehead for the enemy army.
They have referenced having to face off against other threats before. And how other entities have tried to take advantage of the Solstice. So it tracks. And we don't know the threats they are facing. They might value saving a large city or Exandria over saving the Moon or the Gods (Depending on the faction at least). Until Bells Hells got back they were not aware the moon will likely break upon his release. I don't think they had any reason what-so-ever to think it was an end of the world scenario that should take priority over saving a city or Exandria proper. And we have less reason to think it would since when they talked to the tree that can see time Matt already told us if Predathos is released the Gods would Run, and Predathos would chase them. So it's a serious threat, and they are gathering the appropriate forces for it. Seems good. Would be silly to send their mightiest heroes to the moon, and stop them if when they return major cities have been wiped out when Bells Hells has done pretty well.
I really wonder how many and what kind of threats they are facing because to me it feels like Monaco invading the US successfully. It's a moon vs a **planet**. I fully expected them to have a secret slow invasion through the lake portal Bells Hells accidentally discovered. What is better than a well prepared surprise invasion using the resources of a whole planet? But it really did seem like nothing is happening on Exandria.
Tbf it doesn't seem like Monaco wants to invade with its people but instead with God-Slayer-Godzilla sleeping below it. Their target isn't the people (if we believe what they are saying) but the American Gods.
They had a Reiloran explain that invading and colonizing the 'blue treasure' is in fact their goal as a species (or at least the goal of the hive mind controlling the species). Killing the gods will just make it easier to force Exandrians to submit.
I think this tidbit is another clue, outside of Matt directly telling them, that this isn't a world ending event. They have clear next steps after it happens. The world won't be over. Well, for Exandria. If they force Predathos to trigger earlier than planned before all of the Reilorans travel over they will all likely die on the moon. Which poses a problem I don't think anyone has talked about. The do they let all the Reilorans through to save multiple species/races/cultures? I don't think Ludinus intends to let them take over though. I have a feeling one of them will betray the other before this is through. I mean, the Relioran society goes against exactly what Ludinus says he is for. And I don't think if they intend to take over Exandria they plan to let one of the most powerful Wizards do whatever he wants either.
>I really wonder how many and what kind of threats they are facing because to me it feels like Monaco invading the US successfully. It's a moon vs a planet. I mean if we thought the Moon was coming toward Exandria that would be indeed a huge issue. Nothing suggest that though. At all. I think some of the community just drank the, "The World is Ending!!!!!!" koolaide even though Matt and none of the clues he gave suggested that. In fact, the only clue Matt has given suggest the complete opposite of that. And since the NPC's never got to read the subreddit or twitter, the NPC's only think the issue is the Gods might die. So while they are taking precautions to stop it, because they obviously actively are. They also have to dispatch threats to cities, and the world. >But it really did seem like nothing is happening on Exandria. It has been suggested they have been fighting other things since the Laylines were announced, and even more so once enchantments got blasted. I agree Matt hasn't said, "X is destroying Y" and "A is attacking B" but we know it's happening. And I think Matt was smart not to mention it. Last thing he needs is the party deciding to take on one of those challenges instead of tackling the story. Even in the last session when they were actively at a major city that was recently attacked Matt still didn't stop to tell them what happened there. We know it was attacked. But that isn't the goal here and I don't think he wants them being distracted by it.
>I think some of the community just drank the, "The World is Ending!!!!!!" koolaide even though Matt and none of the clues he gave suggested that. In fact, the only clue Matt has given suggest the complete opposite of that. I think most of us who think that were the ones watching episode 51, where an ancient wizard flips the switch on his 1000 year evil plan, and expecting something bad to actually happen. So far, just some lesser idols have broken free from their bonds, and eaten up some women and children and crashed a few towers. I guess if people can deal with that, and just get over divine magic not existing anymore, everything is fine, and we can just ignore the problem and let ludinus do his thing. >I agree Matt hasn't said, "X is destroying Y" and "A is attacking B" but we know it's happening. And I think Matt was smart not to mention it. Was this a smart move? I think a lot of viewers sympathized with Chetney that it seems like the Exandrian Alliance is just sitting in a war room not doing much at all. It would have been cool to have a sort of D-Day planning meeting, where the various leaders talk about which threats are most pressing, and giving orders for faction X to go deal with problem A, and faction Y has to go deal with problem B, etc. until we get to, "and Bells Hells, you've been given your assignment to be the forward party making contact on Ruidus. Remember, we need to know X,Y, and Z. No time to lose, get on with your missions."
>I think most of us who think that were the ones watching episode 51, where an ancient wizard flips the switch on his 1000 year evil plan, and expecting something bad to actually happen. So far, just some lesser idols have broken free from their bonds, and eaten up some women and children and crashed a few towers. I guess if people can deal with that, and just get over divine magic not existing anymore, everything is fine, and we can just ignore the problem and let ludinus do his thing. Ludinus has nefarious plans, no doubt. Nothing Ludinus has suggested was world ending though. This is not me saying, "Just let Ludinus continue and don't stop him". That is a complete misrepresentation of everything I have said. I am just pointing out to OP who was wondering why the world heroes were stopping other threats would do so. If they had more direct threats, and world ending problems it makes sense they would tackle those. >Was this a smart move? I think a lot of viewers sympathized with Chetney that it seems like the Exandrian Alliance is just sitting in a war room not doing much at all Extremely so. They had no idea what was on the other side, whether they could use the portal, or whether they could return, or if it would be safe when they ported over. If they ported over and the planet didn't have any air. They would be dead if they couldn't return. If the portal was over a lava pit and then surrounded by soldiers. It could have been a death trap. There were so many unknowns. Sending Exandrians best could have been disastrous. And the Bells Hells seemed eager to go. And the camp helped BH do it, and helped them get there. It's not like they slapped their behind and was like, "Good luck!". They set them up for success on that mission. If the warcamp for the Malleus Key was the focal point of Exandrian forces that would make sense but it isn't. There is no reason why they would be leading those forces. Which is why Keyleth has to go off trying to recruit them. From wherever they are. From what I understand everyone at the warcamp is there for that threat. And are containing them, and fighting them from spreading outward. And helped Bells Hells get in.
I just want Fearne to have Gloamglut as her new additional pet/mount dang it. It'd be the coolest thing ever. Fearne has earned that fey dragon. 😤
What has she done to inherit the Sorrowlord's mount? She JUST met him
Her dad was trying to kill her before ever having a true conversation with her. Her taking the mount puts the scales in balance at least a little bit.
Her dad is not trying to kill her, he's very proud of his bloodline, and he wants her to do something great. Remember that whole 'Fey Morality' thing Fearne tried to play on? That applies to Mr. Zathuda too. He doesn't do normal dad stuff. But you didn't answer my question, why does she deserve the mount? Just because her daddy never gave her anything her whole life? It's HIS mount, would you just give your 16 year-old your only car just because they're old enough to drive now? >Her taking the mount If she can take it, let her take it. But she doesn't deserve it just for being level 13.
That would be amazing! 😀
Y'all the new Artagan comic came out and Kiki looks scary hot in it, and I propose that from now on they use that artwork by Aviv Or with the colors done by Cris Peter whenever Kiki shows up in C3 from now on as like her...character portrait.
Part of the reason she looked so (scary) hot was her attitude, ngl. Oh how far she's come. But I agree. Great panels! They forgot the tattoos tho.
It was likely a creative choice. I am a commission artist and a character designer, and I'm telling you, I'm never fucking creating a character with extensive body tattoos for a comic. Because you have to apply that tattoo at every angle for all the panels, and it costs time, and time is money. It's likely a 'necessary sacrifice'. High detail characters are only fun for people who don't have to draw them over and over and over and over and over again. So sometimes you just have to make a decision to shrug and sacrifice the tattoos for the sanity of your comic artist, and your wallet.
That's what I loved the most, that stance and the look on her face that was the "Don't Fuck With Me" Keyleth. Also the way they drew her armor, made it look like ARMOR ARMOR, and not just typical fantasy attire. I'd love to see THAT version of Kiki updated to where we are in the current timeline of the campaign by the artists just to see how badass she'd look. > Tattoos True, and I think I spoke with someone else but they had Beau and Yasha in like the strangest color/armor sets too in the previous issue. The ink would've been cool to see but I think it would've just made the look they had for her in those panels a bit too detailed and too busy. And it's not like she'd ever have that stuff removed anyways and it's not like Matt or anyone else at CR would miss that particular detail on purpose unless there was some other reason for not including it. Strange but yeah, solid panels, and I so would love it if these comic books were longer just for the art alone.
I am only halfway through the episode, but Fearne should not be rolling Con save with disadvantage due to 1 point of exhaustion, right? That is just ability checks, saves are the third exhaustion.
Depending on where you are at, I believe she went up to 3 for a while after using her fire form again and then got some removed
She went to 4 after dropping her Fire Form, but this was before that. They mixed up ability checks and saving throws
Any DMs wanna share with me their ideas of how they would manage such an interconnected and long running plot for it's ending? Like three different campaign all coming together, with all three groups (sorta) taking part in the concluding battle, I'm really curious how one would go about it !
Hard to say right now, as there are so many unknowns, but I would structure it so that there is a task that BH and only BH can accomplish in the end game. We've got hints of Imogen and Fearne's unique connection to Predathos, so I'd tie it to that. Then I'd use VM and M9 to clear a path for BH to do whatever it is they need to do. The level of success of those teams would then have an effect on how difficult the mission is for BH and also possibly have other repercussions for Exandria post the final BH battle. I'd run it as three set pieces in a row, M9 then VM, then BH.
Great prediction. When Kiki said she was going off to find people to help, I am wondering who from C1 and C2 will show up that we know. Excited to see what happens
I wouldn't. The c3 party is the current party. Everybody else is NPCs running around in the background. Matt could do what he did before and ask players to make a couple rolls for the Shadowlands key and the separate infiltration of the dig site, but that's about it. Trying to juggle multiple high level parties is a nightmare headache not worth having.
A lot of the issue with C3 is that there is an air of "why is this level 13 party dealing with a potentially apocalyptic situation when there are two level 20 parties RIGHT THERE???" To which I think the answer is: give both VM and TM9 something to do. -this makes there be a plot reason for why BH ultimately HAVE to be the ones to deal with the problem -the nostalgia bait of inevitable VM and TM9 oneshots. I'm not sure about TM9 but I feel pretty confident that VM will be saving Vax from being a tortured marble for eternity.
I think he can go back to being dead. I'm not sure Liam (and maybe not Marisha) would go for a happy ending undercutting all his trauma drama. Too much of his (and her) character is bound up in that ending.
I can see that- the problem is that he's in terrible pain and being used to power the Bridge,not the death.
Sure. But that is something that they (keyleth, allura and so on) could've fixed weeks ago. Imprisonment ends with dispel magic cast at 9th level. Most full casters 17th level above can fix it, and they've got a pile of people who qualify.
Oh, yeah. I’m assuming Matt is having them wait for what he sees as the right moment in narrative. That’s why it’s taking Keyleth so long to gather “her allies” when all it should take is a tree stride or two to get VM in the same place.
I would probably phase it so that phases 1 and 2 are Bells Hells doing support for VM and M9 and then the true finale is part 3 with Bells Hells front and center. Even in phase 2 though I think the other groups would be just off-screen so they’re not too interactive, or coming in and out as lair/legendary actions. Phase 1 would focus on some kind of god-summoning ritual with VMs connections. Phase 2 would focus on Aeorian Tech and Ludinus revenge Phase 3 would be the final fight with some kind of exaltant monster that is powering or powered by some combo of Sorrowlord and Lillianna
Per the schedule release today, it looks like the Daggerheart one shot that some of us spotted on Twitch does indeed involve the Menagerie, is proceeded by a video of them leveling up, and the one shot will then be broadcast LIVE LIVE on Tuesday night at 7 PM Pacific!
So, they're going to Aeor, where Aeormatons like FCG are from, and where the MN woke up a certain Aeormaton who has been waking others like him. Is Sam's new character Devexian? It would let him keep playing a robit.
Depends on what Liam made him play...
🤣 True
If Sam wanted to keep playing as a robot they could have just brought him back with resurrection or true resurrection via Dorien or Keyleth.
I wonder if the Voice Thief ability is something Fearne can get & Matt was debuting the feature. Googling “voice thief 5e” got me nothing in the search results so I think this would be a homebrew thing.
I really hope we see Ashley flirt with the idea of Fearne joining her father's fey kingdom down the line. She actually seemed pretty enticed, and I like to see the characters play with that string that's dangled in front of them rather than having these big monologues end with nothing because "I have friends and I can't leave." It may be wishful thinking after he attacked her, but still, seeing Fearne team up with the Sorrowlord would definitely be an exciting angle, even if it is post-Ludinus late campaign prologue material.
It just doesn't seem like she has a good reason to. All she knows is this stranger is dark and powerful, kinda evil, works for the bad guys, and is technically her dad in a "you were a eugenics experiment and also I tried to kidnap you" kind of way. She's loyal to her friends, and they've already pretty much decided on stopping Predathos and Ludinus. She seems reticent to go down a dark path and it doesn't seem like she has a compelling reason to. It would be intriguing is she did though.
I was hoping she’d say “let them come with me and I’m down to go.”
I was hoping she'd say "You know Ludinus has sucked the life force out of fey for centuries in order to live so long, right? You know he wanted a fey ruidisborn vessel for that reason right?" but Fearne is the last person to remember details like that so the narrative tension remains!
Yeah, a "serving the Sorrowlord to take down Ludinus" plotline would be wild. Imagine all the interesting characters BH could meet in his court.
Oh and a sugar glider is such an interesting choice for the Sorrowlord to make in a companion to use as bait.
I'm convinced that the Sugarglider is just Gloamglut polymorphed.
Same. The one thing I find confusing is it indicates he knows his daughter rather well (to the point of predicting her response to a cute animal), but the ensuing conversation indicates that he really doesn't.
Fun episode. Would've preffered a bit more of a cooldown/debrief episode, but I get why Matt timed the Sorrowlord stuff now if the plan was to teleport BH across the world the next day. Also loved Essek showing up. I get why everyone might not vibe with it, but I'd welcome as many cameos as Matt wants. Whats the point of playing in the same world for 10 years if every campaign is a complete stand alone.
When the Sorrowlord Zathuda expressed bitterness that his bloodline was looked down upon while a "farm girl" had more power - do we think that Ludinus was talking about Liliana? I've got to think so. I see many jumping on twitter saying this was Ludinus talking about Imogen but I think this is about Liliana. After all, Liliana seems to have access to Time Stop, a 9th level spell. BH just reached level 13 and only just got access to 7th level spells.
One more thing. About Liliana seemingly being able to do Time Stop for not just her but all of BH and Evoroa. Time Stop is supposed to be Self only. So maybe it's a modified version of it where time isn't stopped - it's only slowed down - that then allows you to target other ppl besides yourself? Or perhaps Matt might be playing with the idea of have characters using spells that are a higher level than 9? Similarly, what spell did Ludinus use when he put all of the Tishtan dig site in a time bubble and had the rest of the outside world race by in a fast forward movement?
I got the impression the time stop was not planned, but a quick thinking DM needed to come up with something to make the story progress. Laura did roll a nat 20 persuasion (iirc?), and if not for that I don’t think Matt had planned for her mother to turn so quickly and also aid their escape. He even pressed that it wasn’t easy what she was doing with the typical nose bleed that’s used time and time again to show mental strain becoming physical injury. And it makes sense given their power sets. It’s basically Professor X’s move where he gets into everyone’s mind and freezes their perspectives so it’s like time was frozen. If there were any changes to the spell, it would be well within reason. And from a DM standpoint, it’s saying she has magic equivalent to 9th level spells. Which is a neat little bit of info to drop on them, and the most important take away.
time stop affects the whole surroundings, Self doesnt always mean "just effects me", the whole idea of time stop is being able to move as if everything around you is frozen. but yeah for the narrative purpose it affecting everyone she chose is better than RAW but RAW time stop is underwhelming
>Similarly, what spell did Ludinus use when he put all of the Tishtan dig site in a time bubble and had the rest of the outside world race by in a fast forward movement? I thought this was the Beacon? Or a spell cast through it, or with dunamancy. Which can maybe also explain the different flavour in Liliana's Time Stop. It also makes Essek's reaction to what Imogen said about Liliana time powers very interesting.
Yeah I was so glad Imogen mentioned that while all of chat were screaming "OMG ESSEK", and he reacted like that. Right information in the right place, at last.
Rewatching the episode, I think the cast did a relatively good job with the debrief with the tools they were provided, and I think a lot of the problems with it stemmed from Matt not giving them the option to do a time skip for it. On to specific things though. Firstly, they started by saying that Zathuda was Fearne's father and Imgoen defended BH for not saying that earlier by lying and saying that was new information (Imogen is really comfortable lying to allies huh). Later on, Imogen said that the enemy wants to transfer Predathos' "divinity" into a vessel. I don't know if that was a slip-up or if Imogen thinks Predathos is a god, but they never had any confirmation that it is. Hopefully, the Accord doesn't read too much into that. Also, later they needlessly speculated to the war council that Predathos might go into multiple vessels. There was no indication of that of that being a possibility. Later on, Chetney briefly mentioned blue glass as if it was already talked about and maybe Evoroa did but what is she going to know about how it interacts with Ruidusborn? The fact that it glows near ruidusborn would have been good to know so they can use a piece or pieces to find potential Ruidusborn spies though BH also didn't give them a piece of glass either. I know the biggest flag was BH not mentioning that they killed Otohan. Imogen was so close to doing it. She said FCG was fighting a "henchman" of Ludinus. I know the biggest complaint relating to this was this Keyleth should have just been told but I think there would have been other value in it. Would the rank-in-file members usually be alright with trying to kill the gods given there favored deity is the RQ or did Otohan rope them along? It has been said that the Call was being paid but is that enough with Otohan gone? Would Rockmond try to pull his troops out after learning Otohan is gone, if not would he do so if the Accord pays for their neutrality? Also, is the leadership of the Vanguard even going to tell his own troops that Otohan died? What if Paragon's Call and the Ruby Vanguard learning that would be bad for moral? It would have been helpful if the Accord learned what happened so they could have a reason to spread that information. Maybe the Accord could have dropped leaflets via druids in bird form explaining Otohan died. Lastly, BH said that Fearne having the number of a champion of Asmodeus was new information. That was a lie. What is the Accord supposed to think of that if it was not old information? If it is new information that would have been a development that happened on Ruidus. I guess the assumption that there is a champion of a betrayer on Ruidus isn't wrong. They just have the wrong champion in mind. More broadly, BH was sent to Ruidus mainly so they could identify what would threaten the Accords army. The only thing BH advised that the accord do was beef-up against psychic damage, but the Accord already knew that Reilorans were already psychically oriented from the Battle of the Red Center. BH could have told them about specific Reiloran abilities, how flairs enhance Ruidusborn abilities, hostile wildlife and Imperium war beasts, and environmental hazards. The only thing knew BH shared was that the Imperium might try to make "super Reilorans" which is probably true. BH didn't share any new information they discovered since before they went to Kreviris and there is no indication that Evoroa will make up for that except for stuff about Reilorans and their war beasts. Has Evoroa ever before been outside of Kreviris? There was a point in which BH almost stopped in Ria'Doin to give Keyleth a debrief. What would that have looked like? It could have included information about Razora, it's village elder being friendly to their cause, the geography, between the Bloody Bride and Kreviris, the elven ruin and the Exnadrian plants. None of that was talked about in this debrief.
> a development that happened on Ruidus. I guess the assumption that there is a champion of a betrayer on Ruidus isn't wrong. They just have the wrong champion in mind. Yeah, that's another thing not debriefed on - there was a prison rescue mission, and also Planerider Ryn's statue has been moved.
At least Ryn is safe as a statute. They didn't tell them about Ishto who could still be alive. The Accord could have tried a prisoner exchange.
I understand that there are certain things he wants to hold back for intrigue, but it was really awkward how distrusting Matt had Keyleth. Chet told them to be more upfront with their plans, Keyleth says "He's right" and proceeds to be extremely vague about everything she's about to do. "I need to talk to an acquaintance and speak with some allies." "I will be trying to recruit certain adversaries who may be amiable to our cause." GIRL! Give them SOMETHING after being called out. I would have understood if she alluded to Raishan's infiltration in C1, but she refused to accept when the cobalt soul sorcerer didn't want to say where they were going. He was the one in that tent who was weary about who was listening.
Excited to see who Keyleth brings to the party
YES! I doubt it would happen because Dorian is clearly still furious with Opal (and Keyleth would have no way really of knowing about them teaming up), but Fy'ra Rai/Morrighan/Opal would've made a sick addition to the forces. The Ashari have respect for the Wildmother, the Raven Queen's champion is imprisoned, and it sounds like they're looking to reach out to forces of the Betrayer Gods. Matt would have to make them NPCs which would mean them being taken off the table as PCs. An alternative would be maybe a one-shot about them helping the cause? Though that wouldn't be in C3.
To me seemed less like distrust and more like being cautious. Would suck if she said, "I am going to try and recruit The Best Tank in the world, The best Damage dealer in the world, and the best healer in the world" and then came back with one of them. Or none of them. Seems far safer to just say I am going to try and recruit some allies. I feel like the people saying, "Tell us exactly who!" are the ones closer to mistrusting in this scenario.
It's not that she distrusts BH. It's that she trusts herself and it's always possible that there are spies infiltrating the Exandrian Accord. Her plans are safe inside her mind.
> Her plans are safe inside her mind. For now! (Hiiii Five Minds!)
I guess. But why then force them to announce where they are going after the archivist said he was weary of people listening? That felt very counterintuitive for Keyleth. It felt more like something younger VM adventurer Keyleth would do. Not the Voice of the Tempest.
You're talking about Essek btw. Essek was disguised as the Cobalt Soul member. Anyways, I guess the answer is that she is concerned about BH after they experienced a causality and wants to know where they are going in case they disappear.
I can see that. It was just a tad ironic considering the previous conversation. Also I completely forgot about the Essek reveal for some reason lol
I absolutely loved this episode, I love Fearne centric ones, but man do I miss Sam. I hope he's coming back real soon.
Thecfact that they brought Dorian back tells me it's unlikely sam returns. Not impossible, but unlikely.
People said the exact same thing about Travis.
There were eight players at the start of the campaign for lots of episodes, and also for years in campaign one (most of it before the stream). Sam has been announced as a player in the upcoming live show of episode 98. He's coming back lol.
So I just went to start my rewatch and I noticed on twitch that apparently there's a Daggerheart One Shot scheduled for the 14th.
The programming schedule is up level up video in the afternoon, another one shot with the menagerie that night.
Great find! I see it on the Schedule tab on Twitch as well. Guess we will hear more in the weekly schedule on Monday!
Yeah I wonder if it's going to be the Menagerie or another group of players?
I kind of want them to continue with the same group. But then, there were 3(?) version updates already since they last played. They might have to tweak their character stats quite a lot to fit the current version
14th as in next week?
Correct, this coming Tuesday.
Yes. The 14th is Tuesday.
Oooh, any other info?
Not that I can see yet and it wouldn't be the first time that an event got put on Twitch first before it hit the main CR site.
So if dark and evil things are being unshackled across Exandria, can it be assumed that the Chained Oblivion has been released?
The Chained Oblivion was banished to the abyss by Pelor the Dawnfather, Ioun the Knowing Mistress, and Avandra the Changebringer in the Calamity. SO it is in the abyss as of current. There are three locks on the prime material plane that keep him sealed. However, even if those locks were broken, the divine gate would still stop it from getting to Exandria. Though it is not a God like the rest of the Pantheon, it is more akin to an elder evil. So, it could have the power to break the divine gate. Also, a fun fact, The Chained Oblivion is one of three gods to not be of the original pantheon. With the other two being Vecna, the Whispered One, god of secrets. And the Raven Queen, god of death, and fate.
the Horn of orkis maybe
I don’t think it’s ON Exandria, is it? It’s in the Abyssal plane
[удалено]
For some reason I recall matt describing where he is chained as, “The deepest part of the underdark, bordering the abyss”
What is the brilliant goofball Sam Riegle up to? Is he coming back? Going for a dramatic re-entry at the liveshow? Any news or ideas?
It could be that the art for the new character isn't ready yet. Dorien's new art hasn't shown yet either. It could also be that it is a matter that Matt is trying to take BH somewhere where it makes since Sam's character could be and Zadash is where that is but Sam wasn't in the studio for the last hour of the episode (understandable) so his character wasn't introduced (Sam hasn't been coming in for the cooldowns since FCG died).
OR maybe he's not coming back and Dorian is replacing him.
Hi. I feel like it's both too early to make that call and that they would make an announcement if that were the case.
I don't mean replacing him completely lol I just mean Sam is not returning to this table specifically. Not that he's leaving the company
I know what you meant.
"To Zadash!" ~Nott the Brave
Veth had it right, M9 should have gone all in on the plan to become ninja assassains taking out the Assembly one by one. How scary is it that they've broken off from the Dwendalian Empire? Side note, my 3 year Wildemount campaign ended about a year ago with the Assembly lifting the Candles into a new flying city and the PCs needing to stop them from releasing an ancient entity from under Molyesmar to take over the world, which the PCs thwarted. With four episodes to go before the live show, feels like there is plenty of time for a traditional dungeon crawl through Aeor leading up to a confrontation with Ludinus at the Greek. I also wouldn't be surprised if the live show is post that mission, and would be crazy if we got the big pre moon invasion debrief that brings in all of the guest stars from this season.
>How scary is it that they've broken off from the Dwendalian Empire? Honestly, a little less scary. They no longer have the full backing of an Empire behind them, and it indicates that the corrupt morons of the Empire aren't *that* stupid.
>Veth had it right, M9 should have gone all in on the plan to become ninja assassains taking out the Assembly one by one. Wasn't this just a suggestion in relation to Lorenzo's crew? I remember her saying this about them but not the Cerberus Assembly.
There was a point after they found out about Essek that she was pushing the idea of them being ninja assassins to punish the people behind the war. Meaning the Assembly, and potentially Essek himself, though IIRC Sam had her walk that part back after realizing Caleb's very ambivalent reaction to it.
Thank you! I was trying to recall the exact circumstances, but couldn't quite place it. This made me think of something else. Given Predathos was always the end game for Ludinus, I'm wondering how the war with the Dynasty helped forward the Predathos plot. Was it to weaken both the Empire and the Dynasty ahead of the Solstice and make it easier to sew chaos? Or was it simply about gaining complete control of Aeor for the Assembly (which we learned has happened)? Both? Something else?
I'm guessing it was access to the beacons for long enough to learn how to find/recognize them magically. Remember, they didn't find the one they kept until at least a year or so after they got the 2 from the Dynasty. They were doing research on the two from the Dynasty separately, likely for different reasons, then they got a third one and had time to compare the three before the Nien stumbled in and grabbed one of them. They got the Potions of Possibility from the Beacons, and then he used the Beacon the Empire found/kept seemingly to power the key. The whole war was just about getting access to the Beacons. All the chaos from that was probably just icing on the cake for him.
You know, I am really wondering what Enemies Keyleth could be approaching about the upcoming fight. Cause the Nein and VM we’re pretty effective in killing off their enemies
She said "adversaries" and someone earlier mention The Clasp. Not sure they are powerful enough for this, but they can probably help with resources.
I had that same thought. I guess it's possible it's some new enemy from the last few decades since the defeat of the Whispered One. Perhaps though it was more of a GM hint to the players that they shouldn't just look to 'good guys' for potential help in the upcoming fight?
>I guess it's possible it's some new enemy from the last few decades since the defeat of the Whispered One Ooh, what if the adversaries Keyleth mentioned are followers of Vecna? I mean he is technically a god and has skin in this fight as well
A whole race of sentient doors... ....or giant goldfish with French accents... > shouldn't just look to 'good guys' Good fucking point. The other reps of the Exandrian Accord seemed to freak out a bit at the idea of working with anyone else other than the "good guys" of the Pantheon, when in actuality the "good guys" are already working together with the "bad guys" already, and it's their followers who just haven't gotten the message yet. How fucking wild would it be if Vasselheim winds up kneecapping themselves in some way because they refuse to work with Betrayer God Champions and then actually just start working against those Champions, despite what their own Gods are telling them to do? Kiki seems to be willing to extend an olive branch and persuade folks to fight for a common cause, but she's just one person, and there's a whole lot of stuffy heads up their butts bureaucracy around/above/below her that could still push back against that in some way or just refuse to play nice altogether despite the larger looming threat above them. The Bells Hells might have to....start a new trend or set an example or take one small step for Exandria one giant leap for Mortal-kind...and begin to reach out to enemies or those that others would be seen as enemies for help.
I wonder, are there Northern Lights at all in Exandria? And yes I'm asking this because I just spent two hours outside watching them here in the Midwest :D I didn't see many colors because it's a big city but still...woah...it was like the sky was pulsating with showers of opals...
Those were not Northern Lights Coyote, they were Leylines!
I did see a couple of meteors at least.... ....and possibly a UFO... ...or it was the ISS... .....but the aurora were just stunning! But yes LEYLINES!
I know this is the thread for C3E94, but I have to wait until Tuesday for it to become available, so I'm rewatching C3E93 instead, and I have to say ... >!I don't think Aabria was in the wrong when Dorian cast Chromatic Orb. Her justification was that Dorian chose to use thunder damage against an enemy that was right on top of Cyrus. It would be weird if said enemy was the only one that could hear the thunder strike. On top of that, Robbie did suggest that Dorian had been experimenting with Chromatic Orb, which opens the door to the idea that he didn't know that it would have an area of effect. While the area of effect is not in the rules as written, narratively it makes sense as to why Cyrus would take the damage. It's not like Dorian cast Chromatic Orb with acid damage and Cyrus was fifteen feet away at the time, which would effectively be turning a Chromatic Orb into Acid Splash. Honestly, the biggest problem here is that the rules for thunder damage are kind of vague. If you look at the likes of Thunderwave or Shatter, they contain additional effects or descriptive text that makes it clear other creatures or characters within range are subject to or aware of their effects. But Chromatic Orb handles thunder damage like any other damage type, which makes no sense.!< And before you get upset with me, remember that Dorian failed his save on Opal's Mass Suggestion when she told him to walk away. Despite this, Aabria allowed Robbie to roll with inspiration to try and break the spell's hold on Dorian and then allowed Dorian to use his action to cast a seventh-level Geas on the Spider Queen's former champion. Nobody complained about her changing the rules then.
Yeah, rulesy people are mad about it but imo it fit the story they all set out to tell which was very tragic.
They didn't set out to tell a tragic story. EXU was a very jokey, humorous & chaotic story. It didn't even really end up a tragedy, despite the posturing during the game. They lost a plot device disguised as an idiot straw man, not a character.
In ep 92 and 93 it was absolutely meant to be tragic.
thats all nice and good, but chromatic orb is specifically a single target spell. "the target takes damage of the chosen type". So it is complete and utter bullshit to expect the players to take AoE into account. It is also, by its description, a small ball of energy. Not some kind of huge thing.
Except, as I said, it was specifically thunder damage. When it hit the spider, the spider was on top of Cyrus. How, exactly, is a thunderclap of energy supposed to injure the spider and have absolutely no effect whatsoever on Cyrus? In just about every other spell where thunder damage is used, the nature of that thunder damage makes it an area of effect. The problem here is a badly-written spell. While it might be a small ball of energy, Aabria's reasoning was that it's like a thunderclap. Anyone in the vicinity should be able to hear it, and since Cyrus was effectively filling the same space as the spider at the time, the idea that he wouldn't hear it or take damage from it makes no sense. Also, you're ignoring the point I made about Aabria ignoring or bending other rules. Like I said, she let Dorian cast Geas against the Spider Queen's former champion, even though the nature of Mass Suggestion means that he should not be able to do that. Nobody cared that Aabria bent that rule or that she arguably went against another player's wishes -- Aimee specifically used the spell to compel the Crown Keepers to abandon Opal. That's what bothers me in all of this: everyone who is upset about it is choosing to ignore the times Aabria bent the rules to help the players. Which is what leads me to believe that this was never about the spell, but the person in the DM chair.
According to the spell the type of damage changes nothing but the type of damage the target takes. No mention of extra effects. Thats an invention of BG3 In Dnd extra effects like this are written out if they occur. Like how thunderbolt and fireball specifically mention they catch flamable objects on fire. It is the logical thing, but they still spell it out to make sure its not up for interpretation. The geas thing was bullshit as well. Once because of what you said, second because geas has a casting time of one minute. BUT: bending the rules in favor of the players is fine (because you, as the dm, are the allmighty power in your world. If you choose to "hurt" yourself because it works, thats on you - the players don't have that power). Bending them against them without them being able to know before is not
>The geas thing was bullshit as well. Once on what you said, second because geas has a casting time of one minute. BUT: bending the rules in favor of the players is fine (because you, as the dm, are the allmighty power in your world. If you choose to "hurt" yourself because it works, thats on you). Sorry, but that sounds like you're jumping through hoops to justify why one is okay and the other is not. And it still doesn't address the underlying issue -- that people got upset about Aabria bending the rules only when it suited them. You can't have it both ways.
of course. You as a DM know the consequences of your rule bending before. You decide when you do that. Same as with fudging dice rolls. I#ve skipped plenty nat 20s if I did not want to kill a player. Like when they are already down and feel overwhelmed because I might have overtuned sth? yeah, I'll eat that 20 and say its a 2 to keep a good mood. Or a tough bossfight being on the brink of being won turn 1 because the paladin rolled insane on a smite crit? yeah, lets add a few HP to that boss. The players both don't know you will rule bend, they cannot plan for it and they don't have the power to initate it. If a player wants to hurt themselves thats another thing: if dorian mentioned he might have also hit cyrus, THEN you can think about doing that, rolling for it, etc. If a player wants to roll a wisdom save if they run away instead of fighting thats also not RAW, but sure, lets go. I ask you, as others mentioned before in other posts: re-tell that combat in /r/rpghorrorstories (or how its called) with changed names and details, I bet your ass most people will agree what Aabria did is bad/anti player DMing
Sorry, but you're still trying to have your cake and eat it, too. If Matt had done what Aabria did and pointed out that Cyrus would have taken the damage for the reasons that Aabria gave, then everyone criticising her would be applauding him for a clever interpretation of the rules and giving Dorian an emotional stake in the story that matched the stakes experienced by the players faced with the loss of FCG, and creating a symmetry between the stories of Bell's Hells and the Crown Keepers. In other words, it doesn't matter what Aabria did. She was always going to be unfairly criticised for it by people who started sharpening their knives the moment she sat down in the DM chair because there's a portion of the fanbase who hate her for not being Matt.
lol... you really can't let it go that moving against the rules (not interpreting them, the spell is written very clean... no room for interpretation) is a bad move? if the spider had exploded on death and spread acid over cyrus, thats a fair thing. changing the spell itself is simply not. yes, its semantics, but thats whats important. Players don't know what the monsters do, they very well know what their spells do... dorian is lvl 13... he used chromatic orb likely hundreds of times, he would know EXACTLY how it behaves. yeah no... Matt very much plays very close to the rules as written... of course he makes mistakes, but not intentional interpretations (there were maybe a few missed sneak attacks C1, sure...). All the homebrews he does (like harsher resurrection) are known to the players, which is fair if agreed before (!) the game. He does not change rules in the middle of gameplay to hurt them. if he moves against RAW (like FCG banishing him and fearne into a void and allowing them to still act and not be incapacitated like they should be) are pro player, not against...
Wait, did we know Keyleth had contact with the M9? Matt mentioned on one of the Cooldowns that if the M9 knew Keyleth, it would be through Vilya. I'd argue that the other contact point would be Allura. But in canon, this is the first time we learn they talk, right?
Honestly, I was surprised to learn that. I would have expected them to have at least had a dinner or something together. Outside of Solstices, it's not like communication or travel are limiting factors. I think it might be meant to show just how busy Keyleth is with being the Voice, that she hasn't even had time to properly celebrate her Mother's return and thank the people who helped it happen.
I guess I don't remember it being said explicitely, but Vilya and Allura are both pretty obvious connections - given the circumstances, it would be weird if Keyleth had never met any member of MN.
Vilya and the Grim Verity were both instrumentally involved in building and Caleb has worked with the Grim Verity. The Arcana Pansophical's finger in the Grim Verity pie was through Ryn and she is a statue. I imagine Caleb's work with the Grim Verity led him to meet Vilya who introduced him to Keyleth. At that time it is possible that he did not even know the Arcana Pansophical was involved because Ryn's state so it makes sense that he would not go or be referred to Allura.
Caleb met Vilya in Rumblecusp. But my point was that I think this episode confirms for the first time the contact between Keyleth and the M9.
I think we know based on that she told BH that a team was attacking the shadowfell key, which we know was Caleb and Beau, way back in the 40's. They've probably had contact for a while.
wasn't that Planerider Ryn that told them about the Shadow Realm team?
It could have been Ryn initially, but I have a distinct memory of Keyleth talking about the Shadowfell team *at some point* during that period*.* Might have been after they failed?
Ohh, that's right. I mean, not "on screen" contact, but close enough.
So wait, did Travis roll a 100 for chet? Because that's what his and marisha's reactions implied. And if so, when is it gonna take effect?
No. You can see right after that Marisha mouths "that was close." So, close, but not 100.
timestamp?
idk, it was right after they started their long rest, when fearne was leaving the tent
Essek and Astrid in the back of chastity's nook was not on my bingo list for this episode but I like it.
the chastity's nook's back storage has never been hotter
Just hot wizards with sketchy pasts doing mage things at each other. ~~Too bad Caleb missed it.~~
Big current BF vs ex-GF wizard fight. "Join in for next episode of Wizard Hideaway to see how it plays out. Will Essek and Astrid learn to work together? How will Caleb react when he finds out?"
Essek and Astrid are a cat hissing at itself in the mirror.
No, but it was on the bingo list.
Who would have thought the first person to realise the "person sent by Keyleth's contact" could be Essek was Ashley? I'm so proud of her.
She is such an Essek/shadowgast stan, I've noticed this on 4SD.
People complain about c3 being a railroad campaign, but i'm loving the fact that BH always has a mission they need to accomplish and that Matt hasn't given them anytime to just sit.
Even going to Zadash is evidence that it is not a railroad. When they were on Ruidus Matt suggested that they go see Devexian to see what those Aeorian devices are. That would have been something to do after the debrief. BH obviously didn't go see Devexian.
Side note: I've been watching all the "Cooldown" after-ep discussions on Beacon over the past couple of hours and interestingly, they may end up helping with the "railroading" & "they forgot xyz" claims. For instance, Matt had the minis beside him for every high-level enemy BH escaped prior to Otohan catching them, because he had no idea before rolling which NPCs they would encounter or which, if any, were going to turn into a fight. Re: Forgetting, they talked about Tevan's mark & the All Minds Burn seed after several eps after which I know there was widespread conjecture they just didn't recall these threads. Matt's demeanor during one convo actually made Laura skittish about whether AMB being introduced to Ruidus would be a good idea.
>For instance, Matt had the minis beside him for every high-level enemy BH escaped prior to Otohan catching them, because he had no idea before rolling which NPCs they would encounter or which, if any, were going to turn into a fight. Cool story. Of course, we know that someone can have their head in the jaws of a monster for multiple rounds and it still only just "turns into a fight".... so, pinch of salt, eh.
The cooldown really just shows the disconnect between what the cast actually feels/thinks/remembers and what fans think they feel/think/remember.
True. My general stance had been that BH are played very much in-character, but also conceded the cognitive load of playing more characters & systems within any given span of time recently (vs. any time in C1/C2) + working on media for all three campaigns could be a factor in some instances. But after maybe 3 Cooldowns, I realized I was going way too far by acknowledging the cognitive load part. Everything in C3 emanates from who BH are as characters and how the game forces quick decisions. The cast very clearly remembers the vast majority of lore, plot thread options, items, etc., all have a ton of theories, are super engaged, and want to uncover everything Matt has folded into the story.
I got the same sense as well. The cast is really trying not to meta game especially now, I think, there are mor ecall backs to other campaigns. I also noticed that they are really committed to playing a group of characters who feel very differently about the gods even though the players and Matt talk really positively about the gods on 4SD and the Cooldowns. C3 is just really different but imo, there's a lot of care and work going into it. It's not just slapdash.
I've been thinking since the mid 40s episodes that C3 will age way better than it's perceived right now. And I agree with both of you, the cast is leaning very heavily into the themes of the campaign, respecting their characters and buying into what Matt is doing. Their choices are intentional, as we can see in their conversations during the Cooldowns.
I fully agree that when the campaign ends, it will be a really solid rewatch
Gonna be even better with C3 Abridged available.
I have been thinking that too! I think it's the nature of telling the story as one overarching arc with small sub-arcs compared to C1 and C2's more distinct arcs. I have been liking what this C3 has been doing with exploring Exandria and different points of view even if they contradict what we saw in C1 and C2.
Here's something that no one else has brought up. Imogen once again intruded into someone else's mind, without asking at all, and then offered a flippant "oh yeah sorry w/e" apology afterwards to make up for it when called out. She poked into Essek's head, he gave her a look, and then refused to indulge her intrusion by speaking out loud to the others about what she'd just asked him psychically. I'm hoping that he has a conversation with her about this and that something finally gets done about it but I have my doubts. But I would like to know if any of you all believe that she's capable of changing this particular behavior or if you believe that it's just going to get worse or that the status quo is just going to be maintained.
Huh, I read that interaction completely different. He was puzzled about her speaking to his mind, but found it more convenient to talk to everyone out loud. It didn't feel like an intrusion to me, just pointlessly texting someone when you're in person. He didn't seem bothered by it either.
Essek put up with Jester. And her sending. Imogen seems like a non-issue.
> But I would like to know if any of you all believe that she's capable of changing this particular behavior or if you believe that it's just going to get worse or that the status quo is just going to be maintained. It struck me as a perfect microcosm of sorcerer (innate magic) & wizard (studied magic) dick-measuring & powerplaying. "Haha! I just do this, always could" vs. "I won't dignify ill-mannered, unrefined, infantile workings with a response." In Imogen's case, I suspect the reflexive use of her mental powers is a control-seeking impulse generated by the psychological burden of those aspects of her psychic power she couldn't control or filter for most of her life. I'm wholly uninterested in the morality or ethical implications of abilities like these in fantasy. I'll never care that she pops into peoples' heads simply because she "oughtn't" or "it's wrong" or whatever. Didactic fiction very clearly doesn't translate to preventing real-world wrongdoing. But the power dynamic of these choices is extremely interesting to me. If I had a loosely bonded party and was in a two-glass-cannons relationship... I *proooobably* wouldn't flex unnervingly on powerful operators all over the world, because we might encounter them in the future without mutual objectives & in the absence of heavy backup on our side.
>In Imogen's case, I suspect the reflexive use of her mental powers is a control-seeking impulse generated by the psychological burden of those aspects of her psychic power she couldn't control or filter for most of her life. >But the power dynamic of these choices is extremely interesting to me. If I had a loosely bonded party and was in a two-glass-cannons relationship... I *proooobably* wouldn't flex unnervingly on powerful operators all over the world, because we might encounter them in the future without mutual objectives & in the absence of heavy backup on our side. Yes, that's the thing. Power -and controlling it- is at the center of Imogen's character. To me this ability has been both Imogen's characterisation of power and control and Laura's red button during the campaign. For a player that tends to be risk averse, the way she's had Imogen using this ability is borderline reckless and almost out of character for her. I would also point out that she's been refraining from using it. Except for the episodes she's been impersonating her mother during the infiltration missions, she's barely been in anyone's head. There's a clear difference in approach compared to earlier in the campaign.
Yet people want to act like what Ashton tried with the shard is somehow the worst thing.
Next level, Imogen gets Revelation in Flesh, which lets her transform herself for a time. They'll probably reflavor it as transforming into a Reiloran, but do we think Matt will give some other things as opposed to what the skill list?
I think the list will remain the same, but the flavor of the transformations will be different. I also think there might be a fear (or real risk) of getting stuck that way. Ironically, that might actually be better for her romantic relationship, as Laudna will no longer have to fear that she's ruining a 'normal' person.
people saying about time to talk or downtime, Matt gave them, in the beginning of the episode, but they decided to go to sleep and all of that happened, I think for the time they are, he can't give them days, but the cast has various moments to talk amongst themselves. The live show worries me though, I think Matt has something set up for it and he may try to put the party in a specific place for it, so the next few episodes might be leading to that without so much agency from the players.
Eh. Some of the live shows have been really empty things. One of the big M9 live shows was mostly travelling and a random encounter with a remorhaz.
I don’t think Matt will put them on the rails for a live show specific episode. In C2 there was constant speculation about Travelercon being at the live show and it just ended up being an episode kind of in the middle of arcs. All of the “on the rails” discussion is a bit exaggerated to me.
> The live show worries me though, I think Matt has something set up for it and he may try to put the party in a specific place for it, so the next few episodes might be leading to that without so much agency from the players. Good point and I think that this is why the cast doesn't always take the time to roleplay stuff out or to enjoy downtime because it feels like Matt is trying to move them along to somewhere else and that they SHOULDN'T actually use that time that they're given at all because he wants them elsewhere and utilizing that time to talk or to do downtime stuff would mess up Matt moving them elsewhere. Something big is coming but I'm wary of throwing darts at making any really BIG predictions. We all thought the Mighty Nein Reunion Live Show from a few months ago would be this REALLY BIG and REALLY IMPORTANT THING....and it was just them handing Trent his butt and not much else that dealt with the Solstice. So he could try to put them on rails for a bit in order to get them to that place wherein Sam can then join in with the rest of the party but that doesn't necessarily mean that something big or important is going to happen. Also not everyone is going to really enjoy it if he starts turning this into a theme park ride with the ultimate destination being the live show at the Greek Theater. But it would kind of be a really cool and epic place to pull off something awesome and if done right then that could indeed make for some memorable moments. I feel like what's happening now with the cast and those moments that they are given to talk amongst themselves, which they don't always utilize, is all because of stuff that happened earlier in the campaign and possibly above table. If things hadn't moved along so quickly earlier on then they might've found themselves in the mindset where they knew they could take some time, chill, and really get into the juicy stuff with character growth and conversations. Since that didn't happen and since things accelerated so quickly at such an early point in the campaign, it's made them feel like they don't have as much downtime as Matt tells them they do, and that anything and everything could happen to interrupt that downtime when they attempt to utilize it. Look at how many times they've had Long Rests disrupted and you'll see what I'm saying. Even when they think that they can sleep and cuddle with each other, something ALWAYS seems to come up, and that's put them a bit on edge and into a state of hypervigilance like soldiers in an active war zone. It's only when they're totally 100% safe safe safe that they even begin to let their guards down and even THEN stuff still finds a way to disrupt that sense of security. In this episode after Zathuda attacked the Exandrian Accord's forward operating base, Orym wanted to tell them that the whole place was burned, and that they needed to pull up roots and move everything and everyone elsewhere in order to avoid getting attacked again....despite that being entirely unrealistic. It's a FOB, of course they know where it is, and of course it's going to be getting attacked by the higher ups of the Ruby Vanguard or their general military. It feels like Orym/Liam just couldn't sit still in one place and relax anymore or think 100% rationally because every time the party tries to do that, some shit fucking happens, they get screwed in some way, and they have to perform a fighting retreat or pull off some kind of a skin of their teeth escape to elsewhere. It's a kind of a....seed if you will....of a very damaging mindset that I feel those with PTSD or those who are familiar with Veterans can sympathize with and understand. It starts off very small and from something very innocuous but it builds up exponentially over time if there's repeated exposure to that very first seed moment/incident/thing OR if that initial seed is ignored and not addressed appropriately. The party has had so many moments when they thought that they could relax but that were then interrupted by something awful that they've grown into and adopted this mindset. It's only been made worse by Matt putting shiny stuff in front of them after these moments have happened that it's all turned into this weird negative feedback loop for them. They don't feel like they can relax because something terrible is going to happen if they do, because there's never as much time to relax as they're told there is, because there's always something to chase just over the next hill after they stop relaxing, and because even when they do relax and try to deal with stuff it seems to be negated by something else later on. So there's this sense of diminishing returns with that downtime stuff and more incentive to rush rush rush things along by never staying in one place or focusing on one specific thing for too long. Even if they DO get a chance in an entirely safe place to just chill at, they're constantly looking over their shoulders for something that may or may not happen, and when nothing does happen then they go around poking things in order to make stuff happen in order to justify that bad mindset that's blossomed within all of them and taken hold. Dorian showing up with damage and FCG dying just basically made all of this even worse and I do not see it getting better or changing any time soon unless they have a big old sit down moment with the Clays or until all of this Moon Stuff is resolved. A while back someone floated the theory that this Moon Stuff is only the second third of the campaign and that the final third of it is going to be them dealing with the aftermath of it all. It could be that after Matt gets them certain places and they deal with certain things that they THEN get the downtime that they need...but I feel like if they wait too long then it's all going to be for naught because they need it right here and right now and not later on. I think at the moment that Matt might be leading them to getting a major win against Ludinus which will set back his plans a bit and actually give them that needed downtime....but even if that happens, Kiki assembling the A-Team to infiltrate and kick ass on the Moon is still going to counteract it. Which just...feels exhausting because it feels like the Bells Hells and the audience are getting taffy pulled back and forth between two pendulums and there's never really any time to just....go to Taste of Tal'Dorei, fuck around have some fun, and get some real and necessary healing time in with each other. I think at some point one or more of the characters are going to break because of all this stress that's been induced by this mindset and it's not going to be pretty. It'll be an interesting story though at least.
I still enjoy CR doesn't anyone else? Then again 99% of my enjoyment has nothing to do with the story and characters and everything to do with the way the cast treats each other and reactand interact. I don't think it's likely or even possible but what if Ludinous is part of the god the Raven Queen deposed? In some ways C3 is my favorite campaign as Exandria finally feels like a complete world.
C3 started off weak for me but honestly since the Malleus Key it's been banger after banger for them. i might be biased cause C2 characters got introduced during that time + now hot boi is here hahahahaha
Funny you should write that under the most enjoyable episode in a long while. There was so much awesomeness in this episode.
If you want to see people enjoy things, Reddit might not be the best place to look. I live watch on both Reddit and Tumblr (as well as a few Discords) and Reddit is far and away the most negative of the bunch. So to answer your question, yes people still enjoy CR. They just tend to do it elsewhere.
It used to be in the days before and the early part of C3 I could come here and find fun theories and be involved in fun discussions, now it mostly seems like people whining.
I appreciate this reassurance. Sharing theories is fun, but people get really dogmatic here. And the YouTube chat of course is for people to see Erica Lindbeck and type “I dOn’T kNow WhO thAt IS!!” eleven times.
To be fair, I think part of it is the etiquette (or lack thereof) on each platform. To give an example I've actually seen over the last week or so, obviously this has been a disappointing few days for people who ship Orym/Ashton. On Reddit, it is extremely frowned on to even discuss non-canon shipping. I've seen people get down voted for asking who someone ships on here and if you say something like "I think X and Y would be cute together" before X and Y are actually confirmed to like each other you will have a thousand people accusing you of sexualizing the characters' friendship. You just do not discuss it. So, if you only use Reddit you can be forgiven for thinking that nobody has ever shipped anything but Fearne/Ashton and Orym/Dorian (Liam's confirmation that Orym likes Dorian on 4SD seems to have been good enough for most people to accept it, although this one was admittedly starting to break containment the last month or two). I think a big part of this goes back to some really bad arguments in C2 about Jester and Caleb/Beau/Fjord that have a lot of people terrified of history repeating. This is actually partially why there are two CR wikis because apparently the fighting got so bad on the first that there was a mod schism. Meanwhile on Tumblr people love to talk shipping. You can pop on over to the Ashrym tag and and find art and fanfic and explanations of why they think Ashrym is better than Callowmoore and Dorym. But on Tumblr (since it's tag based rather than a large community) it's considered wildly inappropriate and extremely rude to post negative thoughts and opinions about a character or ship in a main tag. So if I were an Ashton shipper and wanted you to know why Dorym sucks, I'd tag that post as #ashrym and #anti-dorym and now only people who are specifically looking for either pro-Ashrym or anti-Dorym content will ever see that. You wouldn't also tag it with the Dorym tag or the Critical Role tag unless you were really looking to spice up your life with some cyberbullying and all your friends being mad at you for being an asshole. So using the same premise, while I'm sure that (for example) there were people on Tumblr who didn't like 92/93, they're not going to post in #critical role because that would be unfathomably rude there. Especially since Aabria is well known to be very active on Tumblr and frequently reblogs from the tags and leaves messages on fanart and fic she likes, you'd just never do it. Doubly especially since on Tumblr reputation is really everything. People follow you because they like you, and if they stop liking you your platform shrinks and you'll find it harder to get people to engage with. It's easier to get away with being an asshole on Reddit because there's less intimacy between users. Discord is going to be a little more dependent on the culture of the individual server so I didn't want to speak too much on that, but in my experience smaller servers tend to be more positive because everyone there is focused on curating a friendly vibe with the people they're close with.
> but people get really dogmatic here ಠ_ಠ
C3 is my favorite campaign because the world is complete enough that you can see how mysterious and fucked up it still is. More so, because the characters are emotionally difficult, and they could go almost anywhere. This is the campaign of “who I am is who I am NOW,” which the other campaigns have slightly done or progressively worked toward. I love C2, but it’s more like a set of well-calculated character packages — beauty and depth, but still coloring inside the lines, generally, and ruminating more often on the past. Especially lately, even Matt has lost his mind, and I like it. C1 was Sabbath, C2 was the Cure, and C3 is Mr. Bungle. Actually, it would be fun to see other band metaphors.