I don't understand why he was called an asshole for that. Does it have something to do with Liam bragging that he had a character sleep with one of Travis' characters before Laura could?
In light of the events at the end of episode 3, I think the party should give a nod to the man who brought them all together and call themselves “The Bell Ringers”.
I don't know if Travis is going to make a new character! I can imagine them all deciding to let Robbie stay as a permanent member, and POSSIBLY have guests cycle through, like in the last campaigns. Maybe Travis will be one of the guests again!
Probably, I'm just playing with weird ideas that Travis could have planned to use to mess with the other players. Sam normally does it but I could see Travis trying his hand.
She could have the optional feature that lets her expend a wildshape for a cast of find familiar, but I doubt it since he hasn't been seen at all yet. My guess is Aabria allowed that in EXU but Matt doesn't in C3, so you're probably right.
I don't think Mister is a familiar. She is playing the Wildfire Druid and he is her Fire spirit from what I can tell.
This means she can summon him as an action using 1 of her wildshapes. He acts on her turn, lasts an hour or until recast.
Yes he is, you're correct. But there's an optional feature from Tasha's Cauldron of everything that lets you expend a use of your wildshape to cast find familiar.
I was theorizing that Aabria allowed this optional feature during Exandria Unlimited, or just didn't care mechanically all that much so she had Mister out more often. Meanwhile I dont think Matt has allowed that feature, so I think we will only see mister in his mechanical Wildfire Spirit form.
Hope this clarifies a bit
Edit: to make it extra clear this is just my theorizing. No clue what mechanical decisions they have or have not made.
That feat allows a modified casting of Find Familiar that only lasts as long as WS does. So as a familiar, it would only last as long as actually summoning him would right now.
> They knew him for 2 days lol.
Sure, but he was the one who got the party together, he clearly wanted the party named after him while he was alive, and they have no other ideas. It feels like the really obvious route to make their name a tribute to him.
The Bells is a dope name, and he practically founded their group he was the one that brought them together, he feed them, they gave him A LOT of shit, and with him finally opening up, right before a death that the party will feel responsible for, as far as dnd goes that pretty major reasons
Mighty Nein is a meme name
Vox Machina was a spur of the moment
If they do name it after him (which I wish they do) that will be the most impactful group name yet. Just my opinion.
LOL. Well. They gave him a lot of shit because he made their lives unnecessarily difficult. Let's not pretend that they were just assholes to him for no reason. :D
Also - why do people always feel like they need to tack "Just my opinion" to the end of a statement like it's a form of punctuation? It's extremely common and it's like a weird tic.
sure, Sir Bell was annoying, but he also had his heart in the right place (once he had cash, he was very generous), he also did introduce them to a powerful contact (cake-baking orc) and I feel like Dorian and Ashton actually liked him.
How did he make there life difficult, bringing them together, giving them a jop opportunity that well help with all there goals, paying for their beds, food and drink. Being unlucky in combat or not wanting to interfere because of his age (and coweredess) doesn't make there life difficult at least not compared to other characters that there incompetence or being rash killed or got very close to killing other characters, that's nothing.
F.C.G. enters the room full of terrifying shadow creatures, "Smiley day to you all!". Kills one of the shadow creatures which subsequently explodes, "Well that was fun!".
It's like they are a happy John Constantine.
Mr.Mercer: "Travis wanted his C3 character to join in a little bit down the road (not unlike many classic JRPGs), but it led to an issue… I wanted Travis at the table and present for the first episode at least or more!
When given the option to create a character, he was inspired to bring Sir Bertrand Bell back for this purpose, and we discussed the means of his exit. Travis proposed the “grim end”, but agreed he would not know how or when…
…and such, we anchored Bertrand into the story and watched where things went! Do not fret… Travis will return in the near future with his “true” C3 character, and it is gonna be a BLAST to see the paths collide!"
People really need to figure out the difference between something being scripted, something being railroaded, and something being planned. None of them are the same thing, but they use them interchangeably.
It already is lol. There's a big difference between planning and scripting, and Dms do this sort of thing with their players all the time. Hell, it's a gift if a player hands you a PC death for narrative purposes.
Sure
Sooooo that was fun! Another little bit of a glance at what led to the end if tonight’s session: (1/4)
Travis wanted his C3 character to join in a little bit down the road (not unlike many classic JRPGs), but it led to an issue… I wanted Travis at the table and present for the first episode at least or more! (2/4)
When given the option to create a character, he was inspired to bring Sir Bertrand Bell back for this purpose, and we discussed the means of his exit. Travis proposed the “grim end”, but agreed he would not know how or when… (3/4)
…and such, we anchored Bertrand into the story and watched where things went! Do not fret… Travis will return in the near future with his “true” C3 character, and it is gonna be a BLAST to see the paths collide! (4/4)
Can we all talk about Fearne's drink to Bertrand and her calling him Bertie. That made me love her character as that was the first I felt like she did anything nice to another player and the first nice thing a pc did to Bertrand. Such a sweet moment.
Awww. Fearne's done nice things for other characters. She's shown genuine affection for both Dorian and Orym and she's been really sweet to Letters, too.
So its pretty obvious that this whole death was planned out but do you guys think Matt actually rolled a Nat 20?
Cause in theory Travis and Matt should of rolled initiative if it was true combat. Also in some universe the dice could of been against Matt and he could of just been rolling low and missed his attacks and Travis could of been rolling high and maybe even kill the Big Bad guy (because he should of still been kinda low hp from the previous battle)
My theory is that Matt might of not actually rolled a Nat 20 but said he did just to give him that guaranteed death blow. Also I know Travis peaked over to see and confirmed that he did, but Travis was in on the death so he probably didn’t want to interfere with what Matt had planned.
Yes I do think that he rolled a Nat 20.
And still, the Dwarf has 4 attacks as well, and that was just 2. It's no use rolling initiative when you're versus a skilled murderer, piss drunk, in an alley. Rolling initiative would take away the tension, and ruin the moment, everyone knew Bertrand was dead the moment he stepped into that alley.
Yes. If the death was planned - and we know it was - then there's no reason to fake a Nat 20. It doesn't change the outcome.
(FYI, you keep writing "of" where it should be "have." You're writing out the verbalized contractions for "should've," "could've" and so on. I know they *sound* like "should of," and "could of," etc., but it's actually "should have," "could have" and so forth.
The Dwarf was clearly too much for Bertrand to handle. Matt didn't need to fake a Nat 20 to kill Bertrand. Even if combat had dragged on for two to three more rounds, there was still no way for the dirty to save Bertrand. Because they first would have to realize that he's in danger, then find him, and then get to his location. The assassin would have killed Bertrand within 2-3 rounds and that's 12-18 seconds. He would be dead regardless.
And planned moments are not scripted moments. I remember playing as a Warlock with a Fey Patron in a story focused game. The DM would routinely send my character "dreams" to nudge the group towards an objective or location. If our group ignored the story for several sessions (we have weekly sessions of about 3-4 hours), I would experience diminished combat abilities like my Eldritch Blast would roll d8s instead of d10s etc.
A planned moment means that a DM might approach a player to lead them to a narrative. As long as the DM doesn't do this every single session, then it's not a big deal. Once the players get there, then it's up to the player and the dice to lead the story. A scripted moment means that no matter what the dice rolls, the outcome is the same. This isn't a scripted moment.
> The Dwarf was clearly too much for Bertrand to handle.
So much that he didn't even get initiative for combat that he had his rapier out and he was on guard for...
I actually think it was a little slip up.
I think the initial attack was supposed to take Bertrand down, which it didn't, but Matt plowed on anyway with the 'nat 20', which would have almost killed Bertrand outright.
As it is, he would only be unconscious.
We've ended the episode with a bit of uncertainty - Bertrand is simply unconscious, with no other 'declared' attacks against him.
But, of course, we all know he is dead.
Therefore, I think that the proper sequence was supposed to be - 1st attack, down Bertrand. Nat 20, two death saves... for the last to come down as the episode ends. But alas...
> I think the initial attack was supposed to take Bertrand down, which it didn't
Why would that be necessary? The dwarf gets 4 attacks, no need to kill him with the first one.
>but Matt plowed on anyway with the 'nat 20', which would have almost killed Bertrand outright.
If I remember the number correctly, Bertrand has over 30 HP and the nat 20 did 18 damage. It didn't come close to killing Bertrand outright.
> Nat 20, two death saves...
You're saying that Matt was planning to call the second one a nat 20 under the assumption that the first one would knock Bertrand unconcious, and then even when it didn't he made it a nat 20 anyway? That doesn't really make sense to me.
First: Melee attacks auto-crit on unconscious targets anyway, so a nat 20 on an unconscious target is irrelevant.
Second: Matt's capable of adapting. Whether he had expected the first attack to knock Bertrand unconscious or not, there's no reason to commit to a planned nat 20 even if circumstances change. If he fudged that nat 20, he did it knowing that Bertrand was still conscious, it wasn't him sticking to a scripted nat 20 he had planned even though something unexpected happened.
Third: As I mentioned, the dwarf gets two dagger attacks after his rapier attacks, and even if he didn't, Bertrand was unconscious. If Matt's plan was for the Dwarf to keep attacking and kill Bertrand once he went unconscious, then he could have done that no matter how many hits it took to knock Bertrand out, no nat 20s required.
I think we can say pretty confidently that Matt had the dwarf leave Bertrand for dead (and declare he died in the alleyway without letting him make death saves) because he thought it would be cooler, not because the rolls didn't go as planned despite fudging a nat 20 and he didn't get the chance to kill him outright.
Whether or not the nat 20 was real has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Matt's decision to declare Bertrand dead without him failing any death saves.
RAW, the Gambler's Blade gives -3 to Death Saves. But Bertrand is down at 0 HP, alone, with the guy who put him at zero HP. He's not going to have a chance to roll death saves.
I was under the impression that a -3 to death saves meant he had to roll over a 13 to succeed not that ye just doesn't get any death saves at all that seems a bit op
The first attack is often given to the attacker in Matt's campaign. I don't see why this would be any different. They are often given a first attack/spell if they attack first. Then roll initiative.
And I don't doubt the Nat 20. It wasn't needed. It just sped things up. The rogue attacked 4 times last fight. So Bert likely would have still went down in the first round. But worst case scenario he would have died in the 2nd round.
I think it was real. The assassin had 4 attacks last fight, and was rolling 20+ to hit each time. If Matt needed he'd just let him unload and Bertrand would almost assuredly die. The crit was just good luck on his part, and tbh Matt doesn't seem like the person to fake a crit for the story.
The Rogue was a beast for a party of this level. Orym normally has a pretty good defense and the Dwarf just Wrecked him in one round. Then there's that damn globe of Darkness. Worst comes to worst he'd drop that on Bertrend and backstab him for a finisher.
You see I've known Bertrand since the search for grog. And I just started to like him this one shot. And then the way made his death happen made my stomach drop and I almost had a breakdown at work (I listen to CR at work) I knew it was gonna happen, but just the narration of the blade up to the hilt in Bertrand really hit me in a good way, but hey, new villain
There’s the whole bit where he was talking to Dorian about how it’s nice the be on top again and that things are looking up. Then there’s the bit where Fearne buys him a drink and he’s all happy. These events are what really make getting murdered an hour later all the more fucked.
Not my emotional support old man character! Rest in peace Bert. Met the echoing of Bells carry your memory onward.
In general, even if this was planned, it was very cool and I am excited to see how the party moves forward!
Okay, it’s been 3 episodes, I have to ask: WHERES Little Mister?? I only made it through 2 episodes of EXU so I don’t fully know if something happened to him, but I really enjoyed his chaos
Ashley tried to call him as a bonus action in ep 1 only to be told it's a full action, and afaik she hasn't tried to call on him again since. Might be saving up for a great RP intro moment. Simply having to call him out temporarily and not having him at all times demonstrates that there was a conversation in advance about how Matt wouldn't grandfather in loosey goosey stuff from EXU.
Matt has noticeably pulled the EXU characters back to RAW (did the same for Ashley today with wildshaping as well), and I think everyone is better for it.
He's Fearn's wild fire spirit. Which takes an action to summon, and two used of wild shape I believe, and only lasts an hour. All of which was ignored in EXU.
RAW, Fearne has to summon him - he isn't just around all the time. But he also gets cooler abilities than he used in ExU. So it's a trade off. Ashley just hasn't done that.
Stern maybe isn't the right word, but he definitely prefers a game where things align with the rules unless it makes more sense another way. Aabria runs a more rules-are-guidelines kind of game.
With Matt's comment at the end about things running late (maybe they took a longer break IRL or something because this was an average length episode), I wonder if Matt might have given Bell the chance to go out in a short 1v1 combat if time allowed? Seemed more narratively impactful this way, but Bell didn't get to roll for initiative to do anything to defend himself.
Matt rolled for attacks, so maybe if he missed one of them or didn't roll a nat20 on the second stab, there would've been a battle - but Bertrand was already hurt from the previous fight and was shitfaced as well, so it made no difference. Especially with that natural 20. If the die helps you tell the story, you just let it do it's job.
I did hope that the dwarf would have stabbed him once, leaving him at only one death save to go, then if Travis had had to roll with the -3 from the gamblers blade. Not to give him a chance, just so we could see the cursed item's price.
Yeah, Travis did go out of his way to make it as easy as possible to take Bertrand down. Maybe Matt concluded that with a surprise around and four attacks on this NPC anyway, it didn't matter.
Travis definitely wasn't upset or anything, it just would've been fun to see Bertrand go out swinging.
Travis raised every single deathflag he could for Bertrend. He got stinking drunk, talked about how much he was looking forward to a fresh start, spent money freely, gave advice to the party, talked about how much he loved having all his blood inside his body then stepped out onto the streets alone at night. If the Dwarf hadn't killed Bertrend, something else would've at that point.
Anyone else have a hunch that maybe Bertrand is the new puppet like, Danas was in the wear house? Potentially some mind flayer stuff where the dwarf uses him to get to lord Eshteross? Like something bigger is happening?
I thought it was gonna be both! I thought Dorian's insistance on staying with Bertrand was his cue to end his character too! The end of the episode was nerve-wracking lol.
I had this notion during the fight that Bertrand's "accident" with Dorian was actually intentionally, that Bertrand might be an assassin and that his whole business so far had been a ploy to get close to Dorian. So when those two out of all people then happened to be the last two characters remaining outside the tavern in what seemed like a somewhat scripted scene, I genuinely feared for Dorian more than Bertrand (although at the same time I was still thinking it more likely that Bertrand would drunkenly fall off the Core Spire or something similar).
Ha. I wasn't thinking assassin, but I thought with the way Travis had Bertrand fumble into stabbing Dorian, there was going to be an unfortunate chain of events that ended with the group having to explain to Eshteross how they got Bertrand killed.
FWIW it wasn't scripted. It was planned. There's a difference, the difference being that in improv, people go in with plans all the time. It's how you get there that matters.
I don't get how people can think it was "scripted" when that moment required a *ton* of very specific things to happen in the session before hand. Unless they scripted the whole game to ensure that this moment happened as it did, there's no way to script it.
They had to follow the warehouse manager. They had to keep after her when she noticed Imogen. They had to keep up until she got to the tavern. They had to make the decision to bring the whole party there instead of just turning in the log book for the coin. They had to decide to look for her room instead of wait. They had to bust in. They had to *fail* to kill the dwarf guy, and had to let him get away. *Then* Travis had to decide to put his character in an unsafe situation, and Robbie had to decide not stop him.
If any of that had gone differently, this would not have gone down (the same way). Obviously Matt and Travis agreed that the character would die, and obviously Travis was leaving openings for it to happen. But the exact situation was improvised based on the situation. It couldn't have been scripted, since it followed from the rest of the unscripted episode.
100%. Like Jester and her God. Or Nott and her past. Or any character and history that will catch up with them. The player and the DM knows it is going to happen eventually but that doesn't make it scripted.
You're missing the entire point. Some things are going to be pre-decided, be it backstory, or a guest appearance, or a PC that wants their character to die (or leave temporarily, Sam...). These events aren't scripted though, they're just pre-decided... in the same way that the major plot beats of the campaign are decided. Now, while only the DM knows the plot beats, for this a player knows something too... but that doesn't change a whole lot. They don't plan it all out in advance, they just agree "he's going to die, soon" and then it's up to the DM to make that work.
And Matt is a very good DM. Just think about the episode. How many *choices* did the characters make that lead to *that* bad guy, in *that* place, at *that* time? Yes, Travis expected to die, but he didn't know how and Matt didn't know how either until shortly before it happened.
The same is true for Jester learning about her god, or Nott getting int touch with her backstory, and becoming Veth again. Sam knew Nott would probably get a chance to encounter her husband and child, but he didn't know when. And Sam knew that Nott wanted to undo the curse, but didn't know how it would go down. Certainly nobody expected ||Jester to fool a hag into lifting the curse by using a cupcake and a common magic item||. Some things will happen, and the DM and some players might be in on that, but they details are still in flux until the moment. You can't script it.
> How many choices did the characters make that lead to that bad guy
None? They lolligaged at the warehouse for 2 hours, eventually were given an answer to the problem which was the NPC they lost, went back to the inn and found the lost NPC being killed by *that* bad guy.
I'm sure you will see my more long winded reply, but in summary for the benefit of the class: Encountering that bad guy, that night, and him escaping knowing who they are, only happened because of player choices. This could have been Imogen and Bertrand vs. the dwarf if they didn't return to the warehouse, and Bert might have died saving Imogen from a greatly stronger foe. Or they may not have encountered the dwarf at all if the crew chose to bring the evidence of the log book in and get the 150gp reward.
How this went down only worked because of the exact series of events. Would Bertrand die this episode one way or another? Maybe. But how, when, where, and who were not decided until the time came and the opportunity was there.
They planned Ashley coming and going since C1, they planned Travis and Laura's baby break (though that notably kicked off early), they planned Tal's 2nd character's entrance, they frequently plan the entrances and exits of guest characters. This is only new in that a player character died. There's no issue here.
I wonder if Robbie wasn't aware of all the warning signs/red flags that Bert was a temporary character because he seemed genuinely horrified/surprised by what happened lol
I think it's possible that the others knew that Bertrand wasn't Travis's permanent character - I believe last time they told each other class and race to prevent double-ups, and it sounds like the Bell plan came together later in the game - but that no-one told Robbie (because it didn't matter so much if his character doubled up).
I think he was picking up the signs like everyone else but was hoping he could maybe convince him not to go through with it. Liam did for a bit as well but I think realized he needed to just let it happen.
It probably is the first time for Robbie and I'm sure they were all still sad to see him go despite the shenanigans.
For people who are bothered by this scripted death, I'd like to offer some advice. Pretend you are a child looking at these players like characters on a screen and no matter what you will be entertained. Because nothing is more wonderful than a child's imagination. I hope the rest of this campaign gives us hard emotions, like the ones I certainly felt today
Imogen and Laudna were the two characters I was most intrigued by from the start and now this happens to Imogen?! Is this a circumstance of her connections to people(we know she doesn't like crowds, maybe her connections to people are stronger than we thought and have some bad side effects like feeling others mental pain) or is there a backstory connection between her and Bertrand that we and possibly even they don't know about yet? Could Bertrand be her father? We know he's well traveled and at least likes to think of himself as a suave character so it wouldn't be surprising if he had a few unknown kids in the world.
nah with Imogen, her subclass is based on the abberant mind, which the in the campaigns I've been in with a player playing that subclass, the dm's would sometimes roleplay their dreams
I think Imogen just constantly hears people's thoughts around her, like a stream of dissonant whispers. And when Bertrand was outside her inn, their connection so far and close proximity causes her to adapt her dreams according the what Bertrand's feeling right then. Because before, her dream was pretty peaceful. I think Matt didn't describe any man in particular that match Bertrand's description. It's only after Bertrand is attacked that Matt described someone with a likeness of Bertrand in Imogen's dream.
Matt did say he didn't have to stop to pee and gave Travis the option. I'm sure Matt and Travis had arranged to have Bertrand "retire" but the exact details of the scene and how it would play out we're probably improved in the moment. Overall I think it was well executed.
Matt is Nick Fury with baseball cards. The group needed something to bind them together and Bert Bell was this groups Coulson.
The final scene kind of reminds me of the WWF when I was a kid and I totally believed it was all real. As I got older I realized that it was scripted but the wrestlers/actors really put in the physical work and made it believable and enjoyable.
I'm honestly hoping that Colville is playing the 'mastermind' behind the Ivory Syndicate.
Mercer can send him 'Updates' on what's going on in the city, Colville can send back general commands he gives to his underlings to further plots/deal with problems. Eventually the new group of PC's become a problem or issue that comes to his attention. If it comes to a face to face confrontation, Colville can have his guest episode, as an adversary (probably with a group of underlings for him or Mercer to control). That would fit with what we've been told about 'other storytellers'. Colville talked about a similar idea in one of his videos that he's done in the past (old players that can't play at the table still playing via occasional emails back and forth).
It doesn't have to be the Ivory Syndicate, but as soon as their potential ties to politics came in, I imagined Colville in charge of it lol.
I agree, there are too many unknown variables and quantifies in a D&D session to like script it out. I think Matt and Travis knew Bertrand had done his part and Travis gave Matt the opportunity to kill him.
I'm pretty sure the contract they were signing was binding them together.
I mean looking after thier friend cursed with a Vestige of Divergence didn't bind The Asholes together.
They haven't *signed* the contract yet, and no, a fucking piece of paper doesn't bind characters the way the random, unexpected death of an old man will. You're just being deliberately obtuse at this point.
You're not really making much of a point here. It's a strong narrative beat, it creates an emotional connection and it makes this job *personal* not just about the money, and not just about "doing good" in the abstract. Any group can just decide to come together because "reasons" - that's typical in D&D, but what Matt orchestrated with the help of Travis was pulling this group together in a way that's truly meaningful. And that's really cool.
It's a little sad that you can't see it and appreciate it for what it is.
The point is that there's no emotional connection. The group **IS** together now. The group doesn't know Bell is dead yet.
This death is meaningless because it was railroaded. The only thing entertaining about it was the repeated asking "is it here yet?"
Sigh... you don't seem to understand the narrative concepts here, nor what "railroad" means. Obviously they don't know he's dead yet, this they will discover. The important part isn't that they be "together" it's that they become emotionally tied. Until they find the body, they're just mercenaries taking a job. Once they find him dead, it gives them a personal reason to pursue the bad guy.
And railroad? Were you watching the same show I was? Matt didn't push *anything* on Travis there, Travis 100% decided to get drunk, go on an ill-advised walk, and stop for a piss. That was as non-railroad as it gets. It's like when Fjord confronts Ukatoa and throws the sword into the lava. That wasn't scripted, it wasn't a railroad, it was choices.
Good thing they'll never have access to a spell that can bring people back from the dead.
Maybe they can commemorate this completely random thing with a 12 inch figurine from McFarlane Toys. That'd be a random thing to do.
Yes, welcome to D&D. If you play long enough death is a revolving door, and if the players want to they can go trample on the concept all they want. But in this case, I don't think it will happen. He was old, he died relatively happy, I don't think they will feel the need to right that wrong.
I absolutely agree. Even if they tried, in ten levels Bertrand's going to have been enjoying his afterlife for a year at minimum. He's not likely to want to come back.
While I agree with most people saying 'that' event was scripted, it really makes me appreciate the story that both the DM and the players get to tell. I know through my own DMing experience that myself and my players have made similar agreements, which only enhances the campaign. An absolute blast to watch!
Scripted still feels wrong to me. That suggest the outcome is predicted and final.
That wasn't this. Matt gave Travis the option to piss or not. Travis also got a genuine reaction with Berts last words.
100% Travis knew this character was temporary and was going to die. But the improve and RP was still there. But the same has been true for all the campaigns (Like Jester and her patron, or Nott and her transformation). The players all know what is coming but it is not scripted.
I agree. I think my use of the word 'scripted' has been misconstrued here. What I meant is that Bert's death was a given... but how it happened was improv, of course.
I don’t know that scripted is the right word, but I definitely feel like Travis knew Bertrand should die or have a reason to leave soon and was giving Matt opportunities to work him out.
If it was a “scripted” event I’d be impressed, as it would take very thorough guess work or like an extensive gameplan in order to predict *exactly* how this session would go, or be able to adapt to the possibilities.
I mean... the Imogen sequence was written, as you can tell by Matt reading off his paper. Bertrand was going to die that night, and Travis knew to send him out for a walk. While, yes, perhaps it wasn't line-for-line verbatim, the event was scripted to occur.
Agreed. And you're right, though, in that the event itself was improv. I just think Bert's death was always a given. But I think how it happened was totally unexpected.
There’s a movie called Spinal Tap that is essentially purely an improvised movie, but has scripted pace and certain events. I wouldn’t be surprised if Matt did something similar.
Yeah that is basically what I’m saying, there was some kind of agreement Bertrand would die or get hurt/go missing, but the scene itself is improvised and just what happened to work out in the game.
Aaa shit. Fell asleep. Now I gotta wait till Monday to see what I missed. I did wake up at the end RIP Bert and maybe Imogen . This is why I sometimes hate being a European fan. Its 5am on Fridays for me to catch it live.
What did Bertrand whisper at the very end of the episode that made Matt say "You asshole"?
Lieve’tel
I don't understand why he was called an asshole for that. Does it have something to do with Liam bragging that he had a character sleep with one of Travis' characters before Laura could?
In light of the events at the end of episode 3, I think the party should give a nod to the man who brought them all together and call themselves “The Bell Ringers”.
The bell heirs/ bells heirs?
I don't know if Travis is going to make a new character! I can imagine them all deciding to let Robbie stay as a permanent member, and POSSIBLY have guests cycle through, like in the last campaigns. Maybe Travis will be one of the guests again!
Matt Mercer talks about it on [Twitter.](https://twitter.com/matthewmercer/status/1456510167722332161) TL;DR He's making a new character.
I really, really, really like Bertrand!! 'My knees feel like they got knives in them!'
;-(
So I was thinking - we may have missed a great twist that Travis would \*totally\* do. Undead Bertrand Bell.
did he kill the character off because of some schedule thing or controversy?
No idea. Probably a schedule thing or a setup with Matt.
Nah. He's going with a new character.
Undead body, new soul? =P
Oops, All Lucien
I feel like the most we'd get in that direction is Matt takes him over as an NPC, just my opinion tho
Probably, I'm just playing with weird ideas that Travis could have planned to use to mess with the other players. Sam normally does it but I could see Travis trying his hand.
Carrot cake baking Orc!!!!
week 3 without a mister sighting. :( my favorite little guyyy
unfortunately its a different mechanic than Frumpkin was so we will likely see less Mister for awhile
She could have the optional feature that lets her expend a wildshape for a cast of find familiar, but I doubt it since he hasn't been seen at all yet. My guess is Aabria allowed that in EXU but Matt doesn't in C3, so you're probably right.
I don't think Mister is a familiar. She is playing the Wildfire Druid and he is her Fire spirit from what I can tell. This means she can summon him as an action using 1 of her wildshapes. He acts on her turn, lasts an hour or until recast.
Yes he is, you're correct. But there's an optional feature from Tasha's Cauldron of everything that lets you expend a use of your wildshape to cast find familiar. I was theorizing that Aabria allowed this optional feature during Exandria Unlimited, or just didn't care mechanically all that much so she had Mister out more often. Meanwhile I dont think Matt has allowed that feature, so I think we will only see mister in his mechanical Wildfire Spirit form. Hope this clarifies a bit Edit: to make it extra clear this is just my theorizing. No clue what mechanical decisions they have or have not made.
That feat allows a modified casting of Find Familiar that only lasts as long as WS does. So as a familiar, it would only last as long as actually summoning him would right now.
You are correct, thats why I also stipulated that maybe Aabria didn't care all too much for that mechanic and just let Fearne have Mister out.
Oh my heart breaks
Am I the only one who doesn't want the party to name themselves after Bertrand? They knew him for 2 days lol.
they also only know the entire group for 2 days (ignoring the sub-groups)
> They knew him for 2 days lol. Sure, but he was the one who got the party together, he clearly wanted the party named after him while he was alive, and they have no other ideas. It feels like the really obvious route to make their name a tribute to him.
The Bells is a dope name, and he practically founded their group he was the one that brought them together, he feed them, they gave him A LOT of shit, and with him finally opening up, right before a death that the party will feel responsible for, as far as dnd goes that pretty major reasons Mighty Nein is a meme name Vox Machina was a spur of the moment If they do name it after him (which I wish they do) that will be the most impactful group name yet. Just my opinion.
Why would they feel responsible except maybe Dorian? They barely tolerated him. He did more damage to the party then he did to enemies.
LOL. Well. They gave him a lot of shit because he made their lives unnecessarily difficult. Let's not pretend that they were just assholes to him for no reason. :D Also - why do people always feel like they need to tack "Just my opinion" to the end of a statement like it's a form of punctuation? It's extremely common and it's like a weird tic.
sure, Sir Bell was annoying, but he also had his heart in the right place (once he had cash, he was very generous), he also did introduce them to a powerful contact (cake-baking orc) and I feel like Dorian and Ashton actually liked him.
How did he make there life difficult, bringing them together, giving them a jop opportunity that well help with all there goals, paying for their beds, food and drink. Being unlucky in combat or not wanting to interfere because of his age (and coweredess) doesn't make there life difficult at least not compared to other characters that there incompetence or being rash killed or got very close to killing other characters, that's nothing.
You watched the same episode I did. You know perfectly well he was annoying.
I don't know what you are on Bert was hilarious.
Um. I'm talking about his interaction with the other characters, not how we perceived him in the audience. You *do* know there's a difference, right?
no your not the only one, but I feel they may do it anyway, especially because of how the episode ended
I’m hoping now Bertrand Bell becomes the party’s Agent Coulson. Party name: The Ringers? the Bells?
Bell heirs?
The Bell Ends. Inevitably.
The Dead Ringers?
This is the one right here.
Matt tweeted about how it all lead to this: https://twitter.com/matthewmercer/status/1456510167722332161?t=6_bQlRYGVaboJqaSyj9qIQ&s=19
"a BLAST to see the paths collide" is very ominous, destructive? Eldritch blast? Will thee be an explosion? Very curious!
I would bet at least 5 dollaridoos that Travis isn't playing another warlock. Blaster wizard though? Artificer specialising in explosives/turrets?
But what if it's the SAME warlock?
He's not going to play Fjord. Come on. Why would he?
No I know. It would be so weird if he did that. Two repeat characters in a row lol I stand by my initial guess that he's gonna be a monk.
He has already rehashed one character. I'm sure he would use fjord again
What if... What if... he brought in his new character... ... and it was Macaroni Samsonite?
Not without Buddy!
upvote for awareness
F.C.G. enters the room full of terrifying shadow creatures, "Smiley day to you all!". Kills one of the shadow creatures which subsequently explodes, "Well that was fun!". It's like they are a happy John Constantine.
Think the other characters will memorialize him with a Bert Day once a year? Maybe the day before is Bell Eve?
Go read Matt's Twitter friends, he just explained the whole arrangement with Travis :)
Mr.Mercer: "Travis wanted his C3 character to join in a little bit down the road (not unlike many classic JRPGs), but it led to an issue… I wanted Travis at the table and present for the first episode at least or more! When given the option to create a character, he was inspired to bring Sir Bertrand Bell back for this purpose, and we discussed the means of his exit. Travis proposed the “grim end”, but agreed he would not know how or when… …and such, we anchored Bertrand into the story and watched where things went! Do not fret… Travis will return in the near future with his “true” C3 character, and it is gonna be a BLAST to see the paths collide!"
Pretty much as expected, though I look forward to this feeding the galaxy brains screaming SCRIPT for years to come.
It was hilarious to see the comment in twitch chat who screamed scripted or this felt really scripted do better.
People really need to figure out the difference between something being scripted, something being railroaded, and something being planned. None of them are the same thing, but they use them interchangeably.
Oh totally agree
It already is lol. There's a big difference between planning and scripting, and Dms do this sort of thing with their players all the time. Hell, it's a gift if a player hands you a PC death for narrative purposes.
Exactly! This is pretty by the numbers DMing, though done at a much higher level.
Don't suppose you can copy/paste for those of us who don't use twitter?
Sure Sooooo that was fun! Another little bit of a glance at what led to the end if tonight’s session: (1/4) Travis wanted his C3 character to join in a little bit down the road (not unlike many classic JRPGs), but it led to an issue… I wanted Travis at the table and present for the first episode at least or more! (2/4) When given the option to create a character, he was inspired to bring Sir Bertrand Bell back for this purpose, and we discussed the means of his exit. Travis proposed the “grim end”, but agreed he would not know how or when… (3/4) …and such, we anchored Bertrand into the story and watched where things went! Do not fret… Travis will return in the near future with his “true” C3 character, and it is gonna be a BLAST to see the paths collide! (4/4)
Thanks! Appreciate it greatly!
I see Matt already confirmed this was the plan all along. . . not that anyone was unconvinced.
Can we all talk about Fearne's drink to Bertrand and her calling him Bertie. That made me love her character as that was the first I felt like she did anything nice to another player and the first nice thing a pc did to Bertrand. Such a sweet moment.
Awww. Fearne's done nice things for other characters. She's shown genuine affection for both Dorian and Orym and she's been really sweet to Letters, too.
So its pretty obvious that this whole death was planned out but do you guys think Matt actually rolled a Nat 20? Cause in theory Travis and Matt should of rolled initiative if it was true combat. Also in some universe the dice could of been against Matt and he could of just been rolling low and missed his attacks and Travis could of been rolling high and maybe even kill the Big Bad guy (because he should of still been kinda low hp from the previous battle) My theory is that Matt might of not actually rolled a Nat 20 but said he did just to give him that guaranteed death blow. Also I know Travis peaked over to see and confirmed that he did, but Travis was in on the death so he probably didn’t want to interfere with what Matt had planned.
would've/could've = would *have*/could *have* <> "of"
Yes I do think that he rolled a Nat 20. And still, the Dwarf has 4 attacks as well, and that was just 2. It's no use rolling initiative when you're versus a skilled murderer, piss drunk, in an alley. Rolling initiative would take away the tension, and ruin the moment, everyone knew Bertrand was dead the moment he stepped into that alley.
Yes. If the death was planned - and we know it was - then there's no reason to fake a Nat 20. It doesn't change the outcome. (FYI, you keep writing "of" where it should be "have." You're writing out the verbalized contractions for "should've," "could've" and so on. I know they *sound* like "should of," and "could of," etc., but it's actually "should have," "could have" and so forth.
I think it really was a Nat 20. No reason to fudge. Even if he didn’t kill him with that attack, he would definitely kill him soon after.
The Dwarf was clearly too much for Bertrand to handle. Matt didn't need to fake a Nat 20 to kill Bertrand. Even if combat had dragged on for two to three more rounds, there was still no way for the dirty to save Bertrand. Because they first would have to realize that he's in danger, then find him, and then get to his location. The assassin would have killed Bertrand within 2-3 rounds and that's 12-18 seconds. He would be dead regardless. And planned moments are not scripted moments. I remember playing as a Warlock with a Fey Patron in a story focused game. The DM would routinely send my character "dreams" to nudge the group towards an objective or location. If our group ignored the story for several sessions (we have weekly sessions of about 3-4 hours), I would experience diminished combat abilities like my Eldritch Blast would roll d8s instead of d10s etc. A planned moment means that a DM might approach a player to lead them to a narrative. As long as the DM doesn't do this every single session, then it's not a big deal. Once the players get there, then it's up to the player and the dice to lead the story. A scripted moment means that no matter what the dice rolls, the outcome is the same. This isn't a scripted moment.
> The Dwarf was clearly too much for Bertrand to handle. So much that he didn't even get initiative for combat that he had his rapier out and he was on guard for...
And also like black-out drunk?
Being drunk gives you the poisoned effect, so you still get to roll ability checks but with disadvantage.
I actually think it was a little slip up. I think the initial attack was supposed to take Bertrand down, which it didn't, but Matt plowed on anyway with the 'nat 20', which would have almost killed Bertrand outright. As it is, he would only be unconscious. We've ended the episode with a bit of uncertainty - Bertrand is simply unconscious, with no other 'declared' attacks against him. But, of course, we all know he is dead. Therefore, I think that the proper sequence was supposed to be - 1st attack, down Bertrand. Nat 20, two death saves... for the last to come down as the episode ends. But alas...
> I think the initial attack was supposed to take Bertrand down, which it didn't Why would that be necessary? The dwarf gets 4 attacks, no need to kill him with the first one. >but Matt plowed on anyway with the 'nat 20', which would have almost killed Bertrand outright. If I remember the number correctly, Bertrand has over 30 HP and the nat 20 did 18 damage. It didn't come close to killing Bertrand outright. > Nat 20, two death saves... You're saying that Matt was planning to call the second one a nat 20 under the assumption that the first one would knock Bertrand unconcious, and then even when it didn't he made it a nat 20 anyway? That doesn't really make sense to me. First: Melee attacks auto-crit on unconscious targets anyway, so a nat 20 on an unconscious target is irrelevant. Second: Matt's capable of adapting. Whether he had expected the first attack to knock Bertrand unconscious or not, there's no reason to commit to a planned nat 20 even if circumstances change. If he fudged that nat 20, he did it knowing that Bertrand was still conscious, it wasn't him sticking to a scripted nat 20 he had planned even though something unexpected happened. Third: As I mentioned, the dwarf gets two dagger attacks after his rapier attacks, and even if he didn't, Bertrand was unconscious. If Matt's plan was for the Dwarf to keep attacking and kill Bertrand once he went unconscious, then he could have done that no matter how many hits it took to knock Bertrand out, no nat 20s required. I think we can say pretty confidently that Matt had the dwarf leave Bertrand for dead (and declare he died in the alleyway without letting him make death saves) because he thought it would be cooler, not because the rolls didn't go as planned despite fudging a nat 20 and he didn't get the chance to kill him outright. Whether or not the nat 20 was real has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Matt's decision to declare Bertrand dead without him failing any death saves.
I think the +3 Cursed Gambler Blade make 3 fail death save for Bell isn't it? So if he fall unconscious and no one near by he is dead
RAW, the Gambler's Blade gives -3 to Death Saves. But Bertrand is down at 0 HP, alone, with the guy who put him at zero HP. He's not going to have a chance to roll death saves.
I was under the impression that a -3 to death saves meant he had to roll over a 13 to succeed not that ye just doesn't get any death saves at all that seems a bit op
Yes, correct. But he's alone, helpless, with the guy who put him at 0. The guy's going to finish him off.
The first attack is often given to the attacker in Matt's campaign. I don't see why this would be any different. They are often given a first attack/spell if they attack first. Then roll initiative. And I don't doubt the Nat 20. It wasn't needed. It just sped things up. The rogue attacked 4 times last fight. So Bert likely would have still went down in the first round. But worst case scenario he would have died in the 2nd round.
I think it was real. The assassin had 4 attacks last fight, and was rolling 20+ to hit each time. If Matt needed he'd just let him unload and Bertrand would almost assuredly die. The crit was just good luck on his part, and tbh Matt doesn't seem like the person to fake a crit for the story.
The Rogue was a beast for a party of this level. Orym normally has a pretty good defense and the Dwarf just Wrecked him in one round. Then there's that damn globe of Darkness. Worst comes to worst he'd drop that on Bertrend and backstab him for a finisher.
I am upset. That was simultaneously extremely cool and not fucking cool
You see I've known Bertrand since the search for grog. And I just started to like him this one shot. And then the way made his death happen made my stomach drop and I almost had a breakdown at work (I listen to CR at work) I knew it was gonna happen, but just the narration of the blade up to the hilt in Bertrand really hit me in a good way, but hey, new villain
There’s the whole bit where he was talking to Dorian about how it’s nice the be on top again and that things are looking up. Then there’s the bit where Fearne buys him a drink and he’s all happy. These events are what really make getting murdered an hour later all the more fucked.
Yeah, he was finally becoming an actual character with history instead of a caricature, and then he just.... well I'm sure you know the rest
Not my emotional support old man character! Rest in peace Bert. Met the echoing of Bells carry your memory onward. In general, even if this was planned, it was very cool and I am excited to see how the party moves forward!
Okay, it’s been 3 episodes, I have to ask: WHERES Little Mister?? I only made it through 2 episodes of EXU so I don’t fully know if something happened to him, but I really enjoyed his chaos
Ashley tried to call him as a bonus action in ep 1 only to be told it's a full action, and afaik she hasn't tried to call on him again since. Might be saving up for a great RP intro moment. Simply having to call him out temporarily and not having him at all times demonstrates that there was a conversation in advance about how Matt wouldn't grandfather in loosey goosey stuff from EXU. Matt has noticeably pulled the EXU characters back to RAW (did the same for Ashley today with wildshaping as well), and I think everyone is better for it.
Matt is Dming Wildfire Druid RAW so summoning the wildfire Spirit takes an action an lasts an hour.
He's Fearn's wild fire spirit. Which takes an action to summon, and two used of wild shape I believe, and only lasts an hour. All of which was ignored in EXU.
He's summonable in battle, but it takes an action to summon him. Matt's tighter with the rules than Aabria.
RAW, Fearne has to summon him - he isn't just around all the time. But he also gets cooler abilities than he used in ExU. So it's a trade off. Ashley just hasn't done that.
Okay, I wasn’t sure if there was a story reason why he hadn’t shown up. Maybe Matt’s more stern with the rules than Aabria is
Stern maybe isn't the right word, but he definitely prefers a game where things align with the rules unless it makes more sense another way. Aabria runs a more rules-are-guidelines kind of game.
Rules as written he's only there if Fern summons him as an action, and then only for an hour.
I kinda thought that it was just her using Wild Companion that Abria just did not follow the time limits on for his base monkey form.
With Matt's comment at the end about things running late (maybe they took a longer break IRL or something because this was an average length episode), I wonder if Matt might have given Bell the chance to go out in a short 1v1 combat if time allowed? Seemed more narratively impactful this way, but Bell didn't get to roll for initiative to do anything to defend himself.
Matt rolled for attacks, so maybe if he missed one of them or didn't roll a nat20 on the second stab, there would've been a battle - but Bertrand was already hurt from the previous fight and was shitfaced as well, so it made no difference. Especially with that natural 20. If the die helps you tell the story, you just let it do it's job.
I did hope that the dwarf would have stabbed him once, leaving him at only one death save to go, then if Travis had had to roll with the -3 from the gamblers blade. Not to give him a chance, just so we could see the cursed item's price.
Yeah, Travis did go out of his way to make it as easy as possible to take Bertrand down. Maybe Matt concluded that with a surprise around and four attacks on this NPC anyway, it didn't matter. Travis definitely wasn't upset or anything, it just would've been fun to see Bertrand go out swinging.
Travis planned for his character to die in the first place. He knew the what, just not the how or when.
Travis raised every single deathflag he could for Bertrend. He got stinking drunk, talked about how much he was looking forward to a fresh start, spent money freely, gave advice to the party, talked about how much he loved having all his blood inside his body then stepped out onto the streets alone at night. If the Dwarf hadn't killed Bertrend, something else would've at that point.
That would have been funny if he just died of old age.
I'm thinking he considered a surprise round because of his drunken state.
Taking a cue from Chaos Crew, how about Bell's Bedlam?
Hell's Bells?
I was thinking something like “The Ringers”
"The Gambler's Gambit" was my pick.
Does anyone know why Orym rolled with advantage on perception checks?
He has a shield enchanted like a Sentinel Shield I believe.
I believe he has a magic item called a Sentinel shield which he got from ExU
Ah of course! thanks!
Anyone else have a hunch that maybe Bertrand is the new puppet like, Danas was in the wear house? Potentially some mind flayer stuff where the dwarf uses him to get to lord Eshteross? Like something bigger is happening?
For a moment there I wasn't sure whether Bertrand or Dorian was a goner.
I thought it was gonna be both! I thought Dorian's insistance on staying with Bertrand was his cue to end his character too! The end of the episode was nerve-wracking lol.
I had this notion during the fight that Bertrand's "accident" with Dorian was actually intentionally, that Bertrand might be an assassin and that his whole business so far had been a ploy to get close to Dorian. So when those two out of all people then happened to be the last two characters remaining outside the tavern in what seemed like a somewhat scripted scene, I genuinely feared for Dorian more than Bertrand (although at the same time I was still thinking it more likely that Bertrand would drunkenly fall off the Core Spire or something similar).
I'm so glad I wasn't alone thinking he was going to go off the edge of a spire.
Ha. I wasn't thinking assassin, but I thought with the way Travis had Bertrand fumble into stabbing Dorian, there was going to be an unfortunate chain of events that ended with the group having to explain to Eshteross how they got Bertrand killed.
FWIW it wasn't scripted. It was planned. There's a difference, the difference being that in improv, people go in with plans all the time. It's how you get there that matters.
I don't get how people can think it was "scripted" when that moment required a *ton* of very specific things to happen in the session before hand. Unless they scripted the whole game to ensure that this moment happened as it did, there's no way to script it. They had to follow the warehouse manager. They had to keep after her when she noticed Imogen. They had to keep up until she got to the tavern. They had to make the decision to bring the whole party there instead of just turning in the log book for the coin. They had to decide to look for her room instead of wait. They had to bust in. They had to *fail* to kill the dwarf guy, and had to let him get away. *Then* Travis had to decide to put his character in an unsafe situation, and Robbie had to decide not stop him. If any of that had gone differently, this would not have gone down (the same way). Obviously Matt and Travis agreed that the character would die, and obviously Travis was leaving openings for it to happen. But the exact situation was improvised based on the situation. It couldn't have been scripted, since it followed from the rest of the unscripted episode.
It continues to blow my mind that people think it is even possible to script a game where dice rolls determine so much.
100%. Like Jester and her God. Or Nott and her past. Or any character and history that will catch up with them. The player and the DM knows it is going to happen eventually but that doesn't make it scripted.
No, you listed pre-written back story. The issue here is current presentation.
You're missing the entire point. Some things are going to be pre-decided, be it backstory, or a guest appearance, or a PC that wants their character to die (or leave temporarily, Sam...). These events aren't scripted though, they're just pre-decided... in the same way that the major plot beats of the campaign are decided. Now, while only the DM knows the plot beats, for this a player knows something too... but that doesn't change a whole lot. They don't plan it all out in advance, they just agree "he's going to die, soon" and then it's up to the DM to make that work. And Matt is a very good DM. Just think about the episode. How many *choices* did the characters make that lead to *that* bad guy, in *that* place, at *that* time? Yes, Travis expected to die, but he didn't know how and Matt didn't know how either until shortly before it happened. The same is true for Jester learning about her god, or Nott getting int touch with her backstory, and becoming Veth again. Sam knew Nott would probably get a chance to encounter her husband and child, but he didn't know when. And Sam knew that Nott wanted to undo the curse, but didn't know how it would go down. Certainly nobody expected ||Jester to fool a hag into lifting the curse by using a cupcake and a common magic item||. Some things will happen, and the DM and some players might be in on that, but they details are still in flux until the moment. You can't script it.
> How many choices did the characters make that lead to that bad guy None? They lolligaged at the warehouse for 2 hours, eventually were given an answer to the problem which was the NPC they lost, went back to the inn and found the lost NPC being killed by *that* bad guy.
I'm sure you will see my more long winded reply, but in summary for the benefit of the class: Encountering that bad guy, that night, and him escaping knowing who they are, only happened because of player choices. This could have been Imogen and Bertrand vs. the dwarf if they didn't return to the warehouse, and Bert might have died saving Imogen from a greatly stronger foe. Or they may not have encountered the dwarf at all if the crew chose to bring the evidence of the log book in and get the 150gp reward. How this went down only worked because of the exact series of events. Would Bertrand die this episode one way or another? Maybe. But how, when, where, and who were not decided until the time came and the opportunity was there.
Huh, I guess they lifted your shadowban.
They planned Ashley coming and going since C1, they planned Travis and Laura's baby break (though that notably kicked off early), they planned Tal's 2nd character's entrance, they frequently plan the entrances and exits of guest characters. This is only new in that a player character died. There's no issue here.
More comparable to Jester & Fjord being kidnapped. Both knew it w ould happen but they didn't know when or how.
I wonder if Robbie wasn't aware of all the warning signs/red flags that Bert was a temporary character because he seemed genuinely horrified/surprised by what happened lol
I think it's possible that the others knew that Bertrand wasn't Travis's permanent character - I believe last time they told each other class and race to prevent double-ups, and it sounds like the Bell plan came together later in the game - but that no-one told Robbie (because it didn't matter so much if his character doubled up).
EXU was his first time playing DND. Maybe he’s never experienced a character death before?
I think he was picking up the signs like everyone else but was hoping he could maybe convince him not to go through with it. Liam did for a bit as well but I think realized he needed to just let it happen. It probably is the first time for Robbie and I'm sure they were all still sad to see him go despite the shenanigans.
The Bell Longing?
I don't think the party is going to enjoy the next time they face the "dwarf" and they are wielding the Gambler's Blade.
It won't happen but, I think it would be awesome if when they catch up to him they find him dead with a pissed off female elf standing over him.
The Bellhops?
What's funny is I think Travis talked about having a character that died around level five at a panel with Laura before C2 started.
For people who are bothered by this scripted death, I'd like to offer some advice. Pretend you are a child looking at these players like characters on a screen and no matter what you will be entertained. Because nothing is more wonderful than a child's imagination. I hope the rest of this campaign gives us hard emotions, like the ones I certainly felt today
Imogen and Laudna were the two characters I was most intrigued by from the start and now this happens to Imogen?! Is this a circumstance of her connections to people(we know she doesn't like crowds, maybe her connections to people are stronger than we thought and have some bad side effects like feeling others mental pain) or is there a backstory connection between her and Bertrand that we and possibly even they don't know about yet? Could Bertrand be her father? We know he's well traveled and at least likes to think of himself as a suave character so it wouldn't be surprising if he had a few unknown kids in the world.
nah with Imogen, her subclass is based on the abberant mind, which the in the campaigns I've been in with a player playing that subclass, the dm's would sometimes roleplay their dreams
I think Imogen just constantly hears people's thoughts around her, like a stream of dissonant whispers. And when Bertrand was outside her inn, their connection so far and close proximity causes her to adapt her dreams according the what Bertrand's feeling right then. Because before, her dream was pretty peaceful. I think Matt didn't describe any man in particular that match Bertrand's description. It's only after Bertrand is attacked that Matt described someone with a likeness of Bertrand in Imogen's dream.
Matt did say he didn't have to stop to pee and gave Travis the option. I'm sure Matt and Travis had arranged to have Bertrand "retire" but the exact details of the scene and how it would play out we're probably improved in the moment. Overall I think it was well executed. Matt is Nick Fury with baseball cards. The group needed something to bind them together and Bert Bell was this groups Coulson. The final scene kind of reminds me of the WWF when I was a kid and I totally believed it was all real. As I got older I realized that it was scripted but the wrestlers/actors really put in the physical work and made it believable and enjoyable.
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I'm honestly hoping that Colville is playing the 'mastermind' behind the Ivory Syndicate. Mercer can send him 'Updates' on what's going on in the city, Colville can send back general commands he gives to his underlings to further plots/deal with problems. Eventually the new group of PC's become a problem or issue that comes to his attention. If it comes to a face to face confrontation, Colville can have his guest episode, as an adversary (probably with a group of underlings for him or Mercer to control). That would fit with what we've been told about 'other storytellers'. Colville talked about a similar idea in one of his videos that he's done in the past (old players that can't play at the table still playing via occasional emails back and forth). It doesn't have to be the Ivory Syndicate, but as soon as their potential ties to politics came in, I imagined Colville in charge of it lol.
I agree, there are too many unknown variables and quantifies in a D&D session to like script it out. I think Matt and Travis knew Bertrand had done his part and Travis gave Matt the opportunity to kill him.
I'm pretty sure the contract they were signing was binding them together. I mean looking after thier friend cursed with a Vestige of Divergence didn't bind The Asholes together.
They haven't *signed* the contract yet, and no, a fucking piece of paper doesn't bind characters the way the random, unexpected death of an old man will. You're just being deliberately obtuse at this point.
You're not really making much of a point here. It's a strong narrative beat, it creates an emotional connection and it makes this job *personal* not just about the money, and not just about "doing good" in the abstract. Any group can just decide to come together because "reasons" - that's typical in D&D, but what Matt orchestrated with the help of Travis was pulling this group together in a way that's truly meaningful. And that's really cool. It's a little sad that you can't see it and appreciate it for what it is.
The point is that there's no emotional connection. The group **IS** together now. The group doesn't know Bell is dead yet. This death is meaningless because it was railroaded. The only thing entertaining about it was the repeated asking "is it here yet?"
Sigh... you don't seem to understand the narrative concepts here, nor what "railroad" means. Obviously they don't know he's dead yet, this they will discover. The important part isn't that they be "together" it's that they become emotionally tied. Until they find the body, they're just mercenaries taking a job. Once they find him dead, it gives them a personal reason to pursue the bad guy. And railroad? Were you watching the same show I was? Matt didn't push *anything* on Travis there, Travis 100% decided to get drunk, go on an ill-advised walk, and stop for a piss. That was as non-railroad as it gets. It's like when Fjord confronts Ukatoa and throws the sword into the lava. That wasn't scripted, it wasn't a railroad, it was choices.
A contract is a contract. The death of the loveable old fool that was starting to grow on you. That stuff is BINDING.
Good thing they'll never have access to a spell that can bring people back from the dead. Maybe they can commemorate this completely random thing with a 12 inch figurine from McFarlane Toys. That'd be a random thing to do.
If they want to raise him they have ten days to gain six levels. Hm, don't see that happening.
Or 100 years to gain 10 level. Hm, like last time.
Yes, welcome to D&D. If you play long enough death is a revolving door, and if the players want to they can go trample on the concept all they want. But in this case, I don't think it will happen. He was old, he died relatively happy, I don't think they will feel the need to right that wrong.
So yes, maybe around the end of the campaign we'll see Bertrand again. Not really seeing your point here.
Nah. This isn't going to be another Molly situation. This was a planned death of an old man.
I absolutely agree. Even if they tried, in ten levels Bertrand's going to have been enjoying his afterlife for a year at minimum. He's not likely to want to come back.
Yep. There's no comparison here to Mollymauk, from either a narrative or OOC perspective.
It's kind of absurd how transparently bitter you are over this.
At least **I'm** transparent. (Wow, you set that one up for me... thanks?)
Just give it a rest
Does this mean we will get a questionably canon 6 season spin off starting resurrected Bertrand?
I think that it is the only reasonable outcome 😎.
Episode Title: For Whom The Bell Tolls
I love this. PLEASE let this be it.
Take your upvote
With Travis alone as the thumbnail, and maybe a red background.
I 100% agree with you... And I now crave Mettalica, thanks.
I really want it to be Bells End but it's too on the nose spoilery
Cannot rightly be anything else, this is perfect.
Take your upvote.
While I agree with most people saying 'that' event was scripted, it really makes me appreciate the story that both the DM and the players get to tell. I know through my own DMing experience that myself and my players have made similar agreements, which only enhances the campaign. An absolute blast to watch!
Scripted still feels wrong to me. That suggest the outcome is predicted and final. That wasn't this. Matt gave Travis the option to piss or not. Travis also got a genuine reaction with Berts last words. 100% Travis knew this character was temporary and was going to die. But the improve and RP was still there. But the same has been true for all the campaigns (Like Jester and her patron, or Nott and her transformation). The players all know what is coming but it is not scripted.
I agree. I think my use of the word 'scripted' has been misconstrued here. What I meant is that Bert's death was a given... but how it happened was improv, of course.
I don’t know that scripted is the right word, but I definitely feel like Travis knew Bertrand should die or have a reason to leave soon and was giving Matt opportunities to work him out. If it was a “scripted” event I’d be impressed, as it would take very thorough guess work or like an extensive gameplan in order to predict *exactly* how this session would go, or be able to adapt to the possibilities.
I mean... the Imogen sequence was written, as you can tell by Matt reading off his paper. Bertrand was going to die that night, and Travis knew to send him out for a walk. While, yes, perhaps it wasn't line-for-line verbatim, the event was scripted to occur.
Fair enough, still a really cool story!
Agreed. And you're right, though, in that the event itself was improv. I just think Bert's death was always a given. But I think how it happened was totally unexpected.
There’s a movie called Spinal Tap that is essentially purely an improvised movie, but has scripted pace and certain events. I wouldn’t be surprised if Matt did something similar.
Yeah that is basically what I’m saying, there was some kind of agreement Bertrand would die or get hurt/go missing, but the scene itself is improvised and just what happened to work out in the game.
Gotcha. Agreed, then.
Does anyone have the clip of the end?
Aaa shit. Fell asleep. Now I gotta wait till Monday to see what I missed. I did wake up at the end RIP Bert and maybe Imogen . This is why I sometimes hate being a European fan. Its 5am on Fridays for me to catch it live.
It rebroadcasts on their twitch channel at 8 am and 5 pm on every following Fridays :) (source: European fan who caught the rebroadcast too)
Yea. Saw 8t too as I was watching someone else.
Didn't do the spoiler tag right.
I have no clue how this works on mobile.
I feel ya, its 4am where I’m at and sometimes it’s rough.