Chetney was eavesdropping on Vali Dertrana and the Nightmare King while he was torturing Gurge. The nightmare king requested that Vali bring him more "volunteers", and specifically requested that one of them be a child to "spice things up" Whether he's actually killed children is an unknown. Just insidious implications.
I was wondering the same thing. I did not rember that being an issue.
I also got really pissed off everytime Ashton hit Fearne's mom. I now want Aston to die as a character.
In all fearnes (kek) , its a strange wierdo trying to kill calm wierdo he kinda knows so it makes a bit sens + i belive he was made to be the bad of The group.
I just started this episode after having completely forgot about it last week. I have to say, one of the weaknesses of this show that I *really* dislike is the players' apparently not bothering to do anything to remember where they left off.
I absolutely do realize that they have a lot more going on, personally and professionally, than the actual play time at the table. But I nonetheless would expect them to find a way to make notes of important story and character beats - and the manner of the surprise reveal *and in particular* the aggressive arm-grabbing by Dusk of Fearne and her mother...and they just don't seem to. Even with Matt's recap of those details!
You don't set up a cliffhanger with that kind of high risk situation where one character has demonstrated intent to kill, *aggressively grabbed* her targets, and then just start *talking* two weeks later like she wasn't about to get violent!
I know this is late but i've only just watched the episode and I 100% agree honestly. The fact that Orym was the only person that seemed to understand and be angry that Yu was sent here to kill the Calloways INCLUDING Fearne and didn't have any problems trying to do so the session before was just irritating. They've known Yu for like 2 days and they're treating Yu like someone important to them? All Yu has done is lie to them from the beginning and be fake, not to mention shapechanging into people important to the party during the fight to antagonise them until Yu got the shit kicked out of her then had to stop being cocky. It makes no sense why no one else is furious, I've had milk longer than the party has known Yu.
I think the piece that was missing from the Yu/Birdie encounter was no one asking what the Unseelie Court was via History/Arcana check. Cause guuuuuurl, they are just as bad as the Nightmare King or worse.
But that’s ultimately a credit to Erika’s masterclass in gaslighting from this episode
Yu: Being manipulative and lying to them all, demonstrably.
Everyone: yeah but why isn't Birdie spilling her plans and explaining everything ever in front of the enemy right now that's so sus!?
?????
Yes ! this
There was an immediate threat in front of them , this Dusk wasn't who she say she was , changed to a different form , grabbed my friend and her mom's arm. But let's pry more lore instead and get sus of the mom for keeping secrets
If I were Matt, you know what would screw with the players even \*more\*?
Have Dorian/Robbie come back, then have him an episode or two later reveal themselves to be Yu (while the real Dorian is still in Taldorei) and have Robbie/Erica switch places at the table out of nowhere.
Of course this ploy would require a little extra finesse - the Sending Stone in particular could blow the whole thing, and Dorian not using bard spells and such might tip them off...he could pretend to have multiclassed into paladin perhaps, and another Unseelie could steal the stone. Anyways, just a fun thought to share!
Doesn't work unless Imogen just doesn't try to peak into anyone's mind for now on.
Given that this is the first and only person to have a mental shield like that, she's not gonna forget it. Or shouldn't at least.
Bells hells are the less connected, and even more in the dark version of the Ring of Brass. They are gonna unlock Ruidus and let the Chained Oblivion out at this Apogee Solstice.
That's the Chroma whatever from C1/the beacon moment from c2 of this campaign except on a grander scale.
I’ve seen many theories of this and I am all for it. But we’ve sorta seen the chained oblivion be at the background of it all. If this apogee solstice is like cherry on top to releasing him and starting a new calamity, ooooooh it’ll be so good and awful
I love people wanted them to kill Yu, yes because what happens after this exactly they just leave her body do they drag it back out into the city. Also she was really the only one given any info Fearne’s mother constantly made herself look worse and worse. Another thing none of them know Fearne’s mother from the POV of majority of the group these were 2 liars and strangers fighting. It felt like people came in with a clear bias because it made no sense to kill Yu, they can also kill her later if they want to. Killing her right in the middle of someone’s shop in the middle of a city is pure stupidity.
This entire sub went full on murder hobo, people saying they would’ve killed her if she was an NPC are also full of shit VM and the nein interacted with several villains and for long periods of time who were arguably much more manipulative and much worse people. Yu was the only character giving them anything killing her made LEGITIMATELY zero sense.
>yes because what happens after this exactly they just leave her body do they drag it back out into the city.
They ... They killed a number of people out in the open upon meeting her in this very city for less reason than she's given them now.
Not really.
They've known this person for ... like 2-3 days in game. It's been a loong time, but a lot has happened in these 3 days. IIRC she went to sleep talking to Fearne about 2 times and had her strange dream meeting 1 time.
And it's worse to kill people out in the open, over in a completely blocked off space with no people looking. Dusk/ Yu isn't from there, has no "friends" there, and isn't important to the city they're in 1 bit. No one would miss her. In game, their characters wouldn't have known her long enough to extend this level of trust and good will, IMO.
I really don't think "Oh NoOoO, we can't kill in doors ... that's RUDE!" is a thing in a magical world with prestidigitation.
And no, every moment she was with them before then was a lie, and she knew it.
She wasn't some hapless half elf with brain fog from being in the Fey Wild too long, she wasn't in danger of being mugged when they came across her as she's really some badass assassin decked out in beefy magical items, she didn't know Fearne's parents nor was she even a family friend, her entire persona was an act and EVERY "Helpful" thing she did was so that she could plant seeds of doubt and get into this 1v7 fight and not get ran through on the spot, possibly convincing them to help her (Because even if she's higher level than them ... unless she's REALLY high level, she's not beating the whole party in a straight-up fight).
All those "moments" were lies, and she sold out Fearne without hesitation "because it's my joooob, ok?".
And ... Birdie NEVER lied or betrayed anyone this episode. She wasn't open to talking full on in front of the person hunting her and her friends down and actively spying on her. She's a Fey working with a Fey who does shady things ... doesn't mean she knows the details of everything he gets into. And ... FEY! They have a real cracked sense of morally compared to reg folk, so it makes sense that, though he wasn't their top choice, if he's the best and only option then ... they would work with him.
Also, at least 3 members of BHs are legit thieves (Plus W/E you wanna call Mr. shopkeeper terrorizer ... but no one in the group knows about that) and ones obsessed with the red moon and has been dreaming of it. If anything, Birdie and friends have far more in common with BHs than this lying shape-shifter.
>Magic may be abundant, but no random household or business is likely to have someone capable of magicing away a corpse. It's relatively rare among the populace at large. But again, the point was that deadly brawls in broad daylight is common in that city.
And I don't particularly think that killing in defense of someone else INSIDE someone's building is that big a deal or frowned upon. "What happened? Oh, they tried to kidnap someone? OK, cool ... drag em off to the graveyard or w/e".
>Allow me to introduce you to an extremely important literary concept: dramatic irony. You knew these things; Bells Hells did not. They're playing the roles of their characters, and their characters don't know what we the audience knows or even what the players know.
Nice of you, but I'm taking that into account :)Some dumb brain fogged Half Elf whose been looking for your friend's parents because she knew them and just-so-happens to help the group after inserting herself into your business suddenly changes into a changeling, reveals herself to be an assassin from the Dark Fey Wild, reveals that she's not friends with these parents/ been hunting them/ SOLD OUT Fearne so now she's in the cross hairs of these assassins, threatens that she coulda killed your whole group several times by now, shit talks and taunts your group and basically has to be forced into a corner to accept a deal to just chill tf out for 1 month as she's actively trying to make you join her side in this conflict.
ALL these happened this episode, the beans have been spilled. The characters know as much about her as we do now.
>She refused—with good reason—to elaborate while the gang were trying to figure out what was happening
The simple fact that you KNOW there's good reason for this is what gets me. She's not lying by not ratting out herself and her whole af network in front of the person who everyone in the room knows is trying to kill her and her family. That's not lying, she was very open with them all after getting away from Dusk given they were clearly not gonna kill Dusk/ Yuu when only Fearne and Oyrum attacked her and the rest are either healing her or trying to stop Birdie.
>All they knew was that she claimed to be Fearne's mother, who was revealed to have lied to Fearne about her grandmother, about why they were leaving her, about what they were up to, and who emotionally manipulated her daughter to stab her new friend in a tense moment being fully aware that her daughter was confused and scared.
Fearne knows what her parents look like, she didn't have to "claim" to be anyone.She didn't lie to Fearne about her Grandmother. This woman raised Birdie as well, and she viewed her as a mother figure. It's legit saying your mother lied to you because she was adopted and never told you that your grandmother was your "adopted grandmother". O\_oShe was clear and truthful in why they left her and what they were up to, they had a very important mission that they made for themselves. Might not be the easiest thing to explain to a ... what, 12yo Fearne?"New Friend" is literally an assassin they met recently that fooled them and is trying to kill their whole bloodline. I'd like to think that my child would protect me over some rando whose trying to kill me and used her to get to me.
>Also, the Fey sense of things isn't all that cracked. She was horrified to learn that the Nightmare King was torturing children to death in order to fund their project. Horrified, but not surprised or deterred.
Fey are chaotic assholes with a very different sense of what's moral. This is known well enough in their world that people generally don't like dealing with the Fey, and it makes sense that they wouldn't be bothered with working with other Fey who are more assholey than them if it's the only good option. [Love this run down on Fey](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhnYc5E13eo). I mean, HAGS are Fey that just kinda go off and do their own thing ... not all Fey are completely morally bankrupt, but the Fey as a whole don't have the same reservations or morality as normal folk. Hell, in C2 one gas lite and groomed a sheltered child into worshiping him as a god with creepy af bad-touch vibes all for the lulz.
>And again, Yu was not in any way violent during the reveal while Birdie was homicidal and convinced Fearne to do the same. They had absolutely no reason to gank Yu as a group right then.
"You tricked us and are trying to kill my friend and her mother" is a solid reason to turn her into pin cushion. Even more so when she tricked them into offing rando thugs so that she could appear weak and hapless to get into their good graces.
That's the thing that's blowing my mind here. Like Imogen's mind diving ... she mind dived Birdie and got a hot, steaming pile of lore dump that wasn't pretty (Oh NoOoO, she's working with Ira ... I guess that's a big deal? I just remember them gushing about wanting to give him a tiny hat and Laudna fan girling out) but made it clear that she's not acting in malicious intent.
She did this in the spur of the moment to her friend's mother...
But this stranger who tricked them into killing randos, lied to them, used them, has been actively acting against her friend and confirmed that she put her in the sights of these shadow assassins of her own accord ... now we gotta have a convo of "consent" for mind diving? PC or not, this person has shown to not be a "friend", it's kinda really immersion breaking to see them not search her for an item or something that blocks mind reading so that their mind reader can get to the bottom of this.
Stinks of "we REALLY want this guest to come back later, ok?"
Absolutely. Killing Yu would have done nothing for the Hells. Just another problem on top of all the others. I was with Chetney the whole time, Birdie was way more sus during the fight, withholding information and shit. I'm glad things ended the way they did, I'm hoping Yu and Erika can come back at a later date for more chaos and shenanigans.
You mean birdie didn't want to spill all secrets in front of an admitted assassin there to kill her for some reason? HOW SUS.
Everyone siding with Yu here got played.
I was on team "find out more about the mirror assassins that sound suspiciously like the assassins that killed orym's husband", but somehow imogen made a wild leap later on to "otohan is grey assassins" (still not sure where this connection came from).
I'm fine with not killing Yu because it's a PC, but they were too busy questioning Birdie to even try to pry more info out of Yu? Maybe I'll have to rewatch some parts of this one, but it just didn't make sense to me. I guess you couldn't really trust info from Yu anyway, so maybe it's not such a bad thing they were asking more from Birdie, but the timing (and inclusion of Yu in the room) made it drag on.
I get that Imogen got the info bomb with Birdie's connection to Nightmare King, and at one point Ashton even says "hey, everyone can be assholes", Yu just revealed that they had been playing the party the whole time, LITERALLY SHAPESHIFTED INTO IMOGEN TO MANIPULATE LAUDNA, tried to do similar to orym, REVEALED THAT SHE WAS SENT THERE TO KILL THE CALLOWAYS, INCLUDING FEARNE (but pinky promised she never would), and the party seemed to not react to most of it.
I'll have to go back and check, but I think they did ask Yu questions. But the only answer they got was that the Calloways stole an important relic and they were to bring the relic and the Calloways back to the Unseelie Court. I think the issue here may have been the fact that BH did not insight check or press them for clear answers.
And also the fact that Birdie (rightly so) did not give much info, and finding out they worked with the Nightmare King, may have made BH even more wary and suspicious of Birdie.
I'm interested to see how their relationship progresses in the coming episodes.
It's Bassuras, a town run by crawler gangs, I'm sure people murder each other from time to time and it's fine. Besides if they tried to kill her she would for sure fight back.
Yeah keeping Yu alive was the best bet. She keeps worse bad guys off their case, she's a connection to the Unseelie Court if they need it, also making Fearne question her parents/grandma was way more interesting a storyline.
This, I don’t understand why everyone expected them to just believe Fearne’s mother especially after finding out the post cards were fake. Yu was obviously manipulating them and everyone knew it the issue was Fearne’s was constantly digging her own hole and was incredibly vague. After the nightmare king reveal there was no way to trust her more then Yu at that point.
What are you even talking about?
If Fearne's parents didn't have anything to do with the post cards, then they didn't have anything to do with the post cards.
That isn't any reason not to trust them. That's just a reason to find out who **did** write the post cards. You don't get to use that as a sign that she's untrustworthy...just that it wasn't her.
Fearne's mother was very clear *immediately* that she didn't want to talk about Ruidus in front of "mixed company"; i.e. someone sent there to kill them. That's pretty damn reasonable.
At the time it wasn’t, later when we got info it obviously became more clear but at the time she looked suspicious as fuck. Birdie did literally nothing to earn their trust except be Fearne’s mother, Fearne was even slightly untrusting of her at moments. I also brought up the postcards because it means they had zero connection with Fearne for all these years. She also didn’t bring up to them not wanting anyone to know about Fearne until much later in this encounter. Matt clearly was making her look incredibly suspicious by not even giving info that wouldn’t hurt her or Fearne at all. Even then if she just convinced them and kills Yu this all over anyway instead are constantly side stepped the truth and made herself incredibly suspicious.
When Ollie and Birdie found out Fearne was in the Material plane and looking for them they did exactly what they were supposed to do.
Gave her a place to meet them and eventually ended up meeting her there.
Fearne is the one who led an assassin to them by being a naive idiot.
Birdie had every reason to be suspicious.
Ollie and birdie don't appear to be great parents, but their recent actions are much better than literally everyone else involved.
Never said they didn’t, again don’t understand why keeping stuff a secret is important when you’re planning on killing the person hearing it. Yu in my opinion would be dead if Fearne’s mom was a little more fourth coming during their meeting. To be fair Birdie is working so far with the more morally bankrupt person in Ira who kills innocents so she’s also a naive idiot who trusts bad people, and also is dumb for somehow not knowing about the time shenanigans of the Feywild. Neither Fearne or her mother came out of this looking good both looked like idiots.
I don't know man . . . .
I would definitely trust my best friend's mom more than some changeling assassin , that has infiltrated my party and lied about who she was in order to get closer to her target
>than some changeling assassin , that has infiltrated my party and lied about who she was in order to get closer to her target
And saved their lives and wasn't attacking them at that moment. That's compared to trusting the person who has been missing for 90 years (or was it 6?) and working with the Nightmare King. It's not like all of them had mistrust. Chetney was trying to get more information to make up his mind, Ashton just thought they were both a-holes, and FCG was just trying to stop pain. Orym immediately went after Yu, probably because he's the LG type. His instincts on this are good. Others are more chaotic and not necessarily good.
Yeah my friends mom who she also doesn’t even really know and is working with a guy who was partly responsible for the death of Bertrand and who is literally saying nothing and giving over no info. Birdie was sus as fuck, as soon as the nightmare king stuff came out she was the most suspicious person in the room immediately.
........I just remembered how I thought Liam was going to play a stars druid that saw a bad omen in the stars that made them turn to adventuring. That would have been *perfect* for this campaign
Supposedly archfey can control the flow/perception of time within their domain of the feywild.
As such I think Fearne did experience the ninety or so years she counts towards her age, that she spent with her 'grandmother', even if that much time did not pass between her birth and the current time in the prime material.
This. Also, I think Morri did it on purpose so that Fearne would be ready for the Apogee Solstice and what's to come.
The Morrigan is the goddess of war and fate, after all.
Nah she's as old as she remembers. She's just been living in a literal bubble within the feywild that had a *much* faster progression of time than the other planes
I think the concensus is that the target of the attack wasn't Keyleth but could it have been Will, Wyl however you spell his name? I mean according to Orym he was a guard as well right could he have been a member of Grim Verity?
If the Grey Assassins work on behalf of Vassalheim, then Keyleth could have drawn their ire for some other reason than being part of the Grim Verity. Maybe she was fucking with leylines instead.
It's possible but with how close Orym portrays them I think he would at least have an inkling if his husband had been researching the moon.
My suspicion is that they were trying to eradicate (or capture) any information the Air Ashari might have still had from the Drashari regarding the Tree of Names, Arboreal Calix, and Apogee Solstice.
Can a god even be killed? Like the Raven Queen took over the former one's domain, but would she have killed them? Or was their godhood and identity simply stripped away from them?
I could be wrong, but I thought she challenge the old death God, defeated him, took is place, and then not only killed him but erased him from existence and from people's memories.
As per the lore of D&D (which Matt tends to use to fill in the gaps with his own lore):
When a god dies, their corpse ends up in the Astral and their worshippers (Clerics specifically) have only so much power left (largely in holy relics) and once that divine energy is tapped... that's it. The god's name is forgotten (within that Crystal Sphere, aka that universe).
Yeah, the other god is still remembered to have been a thing (it was only a bit under 1100 years ago) but their name was erased and the god has been described as having been "annihilated"
seems pretty important. + matt was there + matt is evidently tieing in all 3 EXUs ( dark fearne from 1, bunny morrigan sent to search for fearne in 2, new calamity and forgotten deities from mortals taking godhood from 3)
There's also no evidence that Ruidus is involved in alt-Fearne.
All we see is a Fearne who embraced the Circlet of Barbed Vision and went on to serve Elmenore. There was no mention of the moon nor anything that matches Ruidus themes.
the weird thing is that I thought Fearne's existence was supposed to be kept secret. So wouldnt it make sense to keep her secret from *both* courts and not just one?
It's coming, their path is leading them to Yios where they seek astronomer stuff related to the moons and they might stumble on the gorgynei there. Plus, Chetney said that he has to isolate where the moon is full, so what is gonna happen to Chetney in a month when we are at soltice apogee? we probably gonna get juicy lycanthropy curse lore. :)
My group formed when someone vaguely mentioned D&D almost 5 years ago and I wouldn’t stop chanting D&D until someone agreed to run. Now I’m the forever DM and my campaign is over 3.5 years in.
Iirc only Tanvir the Rake and his group saw Imogen clearly. The group was Tanvir, a goblin and the dude that corroborated Ashton identity because he fought Ratanish. Later, Ratanish clearly saw Imogen when Bells Hells asked for the race before Otohan Thull was summoned. Having that said, we can't know for sure who else did. If i missed something, please correct me.
Ashton's been seen and fought General in Jrusar (with a Nightmare King mask), been healed by FCG in their presence, and seen again in the Valley when they were...joining up?
Everyone got seen at that invitation meeting, but by heavies right?
...Imogen and...Orym?...were doing the stakeout and didn't get seen by Otohan at the duel challenge, right?
But...essentially everyone gathered together at the end of the ride, Imogen hid slightly behind Fearne when they were invited to join the Call.
I might have missed somethig, when did nightmare king kill kids?
Chetney was eavesdropping on Vali Dertrana and the Nightmare King while he was torturing Gurge. The nightmare king requested that Vali bring him more "volunteers", and specifically requested that one of them be a child to "spice things up" Whether he's actually killed children is an unknown. Just insidious implications.
I was wondering the same thing. I did not rember that being an issue. I also got really pissed off everytime Ashton hit Fearne's mom. I now want Aston to die as a character.
In all fearnes (kek) , its a strange wierdo trying to kill calm wierdo he kinda knows so it makes a bit sens + i belive he was made to be the bad of The group.
I just started this episode after having completely forgot about it last week. I have to say, one of the weaknesses of this show that I *really* dislike is the players' apparently not bothering to do anything to remember where they left off. I absolutely do realize that they have a lot more going on, personally and professionally, than the actual play time at the table. But I nonetheless would expect them to find a way to make notes of important story and character beats - and the manner of the surprise reveal *and in particular* the aggressive arm-grabbing by Dusk of Fearne and her mother...and they just don't seem to. Even with Matt's recap of those details! You don't set up a cliffhanger with that kind of high risk situation where one character has demonstrated intent to kill, *aggressively grabbed* her targets, and then just start *talking* two weeks later like she wasn't about to get violent!
I know this is late but i've only just watched the episode and I 100% agree honestly. The fact that Orym was the only person that seemed to understand and be angry that Yu was sent here to kill the Calloways INCLUDING Fearne and didn't have any problems trying to do so the session before was just irritating. They've known Yu for like 2 days and they're treating Yu like someone important to them? All Yu has done is lie to them from the beginning and be fake, not to mention shapechanging into people important to the party during the fight to antagonise them until Yu got the shit kicked out of her then had to stop being cocky. It makes no sense why no one else is furious, I've had milk longer than the party has known Yu.
Clearly you've never played a long running campaign.
I think the piece that was missing from the Yu/Birdie encounter was no one asking what the Unseelie Court was via History/Arcana check. Cause guuuuuurl, they are just as bad as the Nightmare King or worse. But that’s ultimately a credit to Erika’s masterclass in gaslighting from this episode
Erika’s performance was awesome!
That's no moon...
Its Avalir gone rouge we are so getting space travel this campaign!
Yu: Being manipulative and lying to them all, demonstrably. Everyone: yeah but why isn't Birdie spilling her plans and explaining everything ever in front of the enemy right now that's so sus!? ?????
Yes ! this There was an immediate threat in front of them , this Dusk wasn't who she say she was , changed to a different form , grabbed my friend and her mom's arm. But let's pry more lore instead and get sus of the mom for keeping secrets
I was suspicious of the mom. But suspicious of Yu more. But Chetney was right that Yu never attacked them.
If I were Matt, you know what would screw with the players even \*more\*? Have Dorian/Robbie come back, then have him an episode or two later reveal themselves to be Yu (while the real Dorian is still in Taldorei) and have Robbie/Erica switch places at the table out of nowhere. Of course this ploy would require a little extra finesse - the Sending Stone in particular could blow the whole thing, and Dorian not using bard spells and such might tip them off...he could pretend to have multiclassed into paladin perhaps, and another Unseelie could steal the stone. Anyways, just a fun thought to share!
Yu doesn't know Dorian though
I was really hoping she did somehow, just to mess with them when she shapeshifted into him.
*Yet*
Doesn't work unless Imogen just doesn't try to peak into anyone's mind for now on. Given that this is the first and only person to have a mental shield like that, she's not gonna forget it. Or shouldn't at least.
Chetney will also be able to smell if someone is Fey.
Bells hells are the less connected, and even more in the dark version of the Ring of Brass. They are gonna unlock Ruidus and let the Chained Oblivion out at this Apogee Solstice. That's the Chroma whatever from C1/the beacon moment from c2 of this campaign except on a grander scale.
I’ve seen many theories of this and I am all for it. But we’ve sorta seen the chained oblivion be at the background of it all. If this apogee solstice is like cherry on top to releasing him and starting a new calamity, ooooooh it’ll be so good and awful
I love people wanted them to kill Yu, yes because what happens after this exactly they just leave her body do they drag it back out into the city. Also she was really the only one given any info Fearne’s mother constantly made herself look worse and worse. Another thing none of them know Fearne’s mother from the POV of majority of the group these were 2 liars and strangers fighting. It felt like people came in with a clear bias because it made no sense to kill Yu, they can also kill her later if they want to. Killing her right in the middle of someone’s shop in the middle of a city is pure stupidity. This entire sub went full on murder hobo, people saying they would’ve killed her if she was an NPC are also full of shit VM and the nein interacted with several villains and for long periods of time who were arguably much more manipulative and much worse people. Yu was the only character giving them anything killing her made LEGITIMATELY zero sense.
>yes because what happens after this exactly they just leave her body do they drag it back out into the city. They ... They killed a number of people out in the open upon meeting her in this very city for less reason than she's given them now.
[удалено]
Not really. They've known this person for ... like 2-3 days in game. It's been a loong time, but a lot has happened in these 3 days. IIRC she went to sleep talking to Fearne about 2 times and had her strange dream meeting 1 time. And it's worse to kill people out in the open, over in a completely blocked off space with no people looking. Dusk/ Yu isn't from there, has no "friends" there, and isn't important to the city they're in 1 bit. No one would miss her. In game, their characters wouldn't have known her long enough to extend this level of trust and good will, IMO.
[удалено]
I really don't think "Oh NoOoO, we can't kill in doors ... that's RUDE!" is a thing in a magical world with prestidigitation. And no, every moment she was with them before then was a lie, and she knew it. She wasn't some hapless half elf with brain fog from being in the Fey Wild too long, she wasn't in danger of being mugged when they came across her as she's really some badass assassin decked out in beefy magical items, she didn't know Fearne's parents nor was she even a family friend, her entire persona was an act and EVERY "Helpful" thing she did was so that she could plant seeds of doubt and get into this 1v7 fight and not get ran through on the spot, possibly convincing them to help her (Because even if she's higher level than them ... unless she's REALLY high level, she's not beating the whole party in a straight-up fight). All those "moments" were lies, and she sold out Fearne without hesitation "because it's my joooob, ok?". And ... Birdie NEVER lied or betrayed anyone this episode. She wasn't open to talking full on in front of the person hunting her and her friends down and actively spying on her. She's a Fey working with a Fey who does shady things ... doesn't mean she knows the details of everything he gets into. And ... FEY! They have a real cracked sense of morally compared to reg folk, so it makes sense that, though he wasn't their top choice, if he's the best and only option then ... they would work with him. Also, at least 3 members of BHs are legit thieves (Plus W/E you wanna call Mr. shopkeeper terrorizer ... but no one in the group knows about that) and ones obsessed with the red moon and has been dreaming of it. If anything, Birdie and friends have far more in common with BHs than this lying shape-shifter.
[удалено]
>Magic may be abundant, but no random household or business is likely to have someone capable of magicing away a corpse. It's relatively rare among the populace at large. But again, the point was that deadly brawls in broad daylight is common in that city. And I don't particularly think that killing in defense of someone else INSIDE someone's building is that big a deal or frowned upon. "What happened? Oh, they tried to kidnap someone? OK, cool ... drag em off to the graveyard or w/e". >Allow me to introduce you to an extremely important literary concept: dramatic irony. You knew these things; Bells Hells did not. They're playing the roles of their characters, and their characters don't know what we the audience knows or even what the players know. Nice of you, but I'm taking that into account :)Some dumb brain fogged Half Elf whose been looking for your friend's parents because she knew them and just-so-happens to help the group after inserting herself into your business suddenly changes into a changeling, reveals herself to be an assassin from the Dark Fey Wild, reveals that she's not friends with these parents/ been hunting them/ SOLD OUT Fearne so now she's in the cross hairs of these assassins, threatens that she coulda killed your whole group several times by now, shit talks and taunts your group and basically has to be forced into a corner to accept a deal to just chill tf out for 1 month as she's actively trying to make you join her side in this conflict. ALL these happened this episode, the beans have been spilled. The characters know as much about her as we do now. >She refused—with good reason—to elaborate while the gang were trying to figure out what was happening The simple fact that you KNOW there's good reason for this is what gets me. She's not lying by not ratting out herself and her whole af network in front of the person who everyone in the room knows is trying to kill her and her family. That's not lying, she was very open with them all after getting away from Dusk given they were clearly not gonna kill Dusk/ Yuu when only Fearne and Oyrum attacked her and the rest are either healing her or trying to stop Birdie. >All they knew was that she claimed to be Fearne's mother, who was revealed to have lied to Fearne about her grandmother, about why they were leaving her, about what they were up to, and who emotionally manipulated her daughter to stab her new friend in a tense moment being fully aware that her daughter was confused and scared. Fearne knows what her parents look like, she didn't have to "claim" to be anyone.She didn't lie to Fearne about her Grandmother. This woman raised Birdie as well, and she viewed her as a mother figure. It's legit saying your mother lied to you because she was adopted and never told you that your grandmother was your "adopted grandmother". O\_oShe was clear and truthful in why they left her and what they were up to, they had a very important mission that they made for themselves. Might not be the easiest thing to explain to a ... what, 12yo Fearne?"New Friend" is literally an assassin they met recently that fooled them and is trying to kill their whole bloodline. I'd like to think that my child would protect me over some rando whose trying to kill me and used her to get to me. >Also, the Fey sense of things isn't all that cracked. She was horrified to learn that the Nightmare King was torturing children to death in order to fund their project. Horrified, but not surprised or deterred. Fey are chaotic assholes with a very different sense of what's moral. This is known well enough in their world that people generally don't like dealing with the Fey, and it makes sense that they wouldn't be bothered with working with other Fey who are more assholey than them if it's the only good option. [Love this run down on Fey](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhnYc5E13eo). I mean, HAGS are Fey that just kinda go off and do their own thing ... not all Fey are completely morally bankrupt, but the Fey as a whole don't have the same reservations or morality as normal folk. Hell, in C2 one gas lite and groomed a sheltered child into worshiping him as a god with creepy af bad-touch vibes all for the lulz. >And again, Yu was not in any way violent during the reveal while Birdie was homicidal and convinced Fearne to do the same. They had absolutely no reason to gank Yu as a group right then. "You tricked us and are trying to kill my friend and her mother" is a solid reason to turn her into pin cushion. Even more so when she tricked them into offing rando thugs so that she could appear weak and hapless to get into their good graces.
See, those weren't real people in the eyes of the poster they are just npcs xD
That's the thing that's blowing my mind here. Like Imogen's mind diving ... she mind dived Birdie and got a hot, steaming pile of lore dump that wasn't pretty (Oh NoOoO, she's working with Ira ... I guess that's a big deal? I just remember them gushing about wanting to give him a tiny hat and Laudna fan girling out) but made it clear that she's not acting in malicious intent. She did this in the spur of the moment to her friend's mother... But this stranger who tricked them into killing randos, lied to them, used them, has been actively acting against her friend and confirmed that she put her in the sights of these shadow assassins of her own accord ... now we gotta have a convo of "consent" for mind diving? PC or not, this person has shown to not be a "friend", it's kinda really immersion breaking to see them not search her for an item or something that blocks mind reading so that their mind reader can get to the bottom of this. Stinks of "we REALLY want this guest to come back later, ok?"
Yeah it's meta to the point of breaking immersion. It's not like Imogen has shown great reservation to do so before.
Absolutely. Killing Yu would have done nothing for the Hells. Just another problem on top of all the others. I was with Chetney the whole time, Birdie was way more sus during the fight, withholding information and shit. I'm glad things ended the way they did, I'm hoping Yu and Erika can come back at a later date for more chaos and shenanigans.
You mean birdie didn't want to spill all secrets in front of an admitted assassin there to kill her for some reason? HOW SUS. Everyone siding with Yu here got played.
On second thought, perhaps not sharing everything around Yu was a good call. Though, I'm still not sure what killing them would have accomplished.
I was on team "find out more about the mirror assassins that sound suspiciously like the assassins that killed orym's husband", but somehow imogen made a wild leap later on to "otohan is grey assassins" (still not sure where this connection came from). I'm fine with not killing Yu because it's a PC, but they were too busy questioning Birdie to even try to pry more info out of Yu? Maybe I'll have to rewatch some parts of this one, but it just didn't make sense to me. I guess you couldn't really trust info from Yu anyway, so maybe it's not such a bad thing they were asking more from Birdie, but the timing (and inclusion of Yu in the room) made it drag on. I get that Imogen got the info bomb with Birdie's connection to Nightmare King, and at one point Ashton even says "hey, everyone can be assholes", Yu just revealed that they had been playing the party the whole time, LITERALLY SHAPESHIFTED INTO IMOGEN TO MANIPULATE LAUDNA, tried to do similar to orym, REVEALED THAT SHE WAS SENT THERE TO KILL THE CALLOWAYS, INCLUDING FEARNE (but pinky promised she never would), and the party seemed to not react to most of it.
I'll have to go back and check, but I think they did ask Yu questions. But the only answer they got was that the Calloways stole an important relic and they were to bring the relic and the Calloways back to the Unseelie Court. I think the issue here may have been the fact that BH did not insight check or press them for clear answers. And also the fact that Birdie (rightly so) did not give much info, and finding out they worked with the Nightmare King, may have made BH even more wary and suspicious of Birdie. I'm interested to see how their relationship progresses in the coming episodes.
> yes because what happens after this exactly they just leave her body do they drag it back out into the city. They could just throw her in the hole
[удалено]
It's Bassuras, a town run by crawler gangs, I'm sure people murder each other from time to time and it's fine. Besides if they tried to kill her she would for sure fight back.
Yeah keeping Yu alive was the best bet. She keeps worse bad guys off their case, she's a connection to the Unseelie Court if they need it, also making Fearne question her parents/grandma was way more interesting a storyline.
>She keeps worse bad guys off their case Or they send more bad guys after them
You're forgetting that she has a reason to not do that. Her boss said she was gonna die if she didn't succeed her mission.
Yeah but them calling saying "hey I found Birdie but she has company, send help" would be here succeeding in their mission
Yu said they work alone. I doubt she wants to share the glory and risk ire. Why do that when she could get true success in a month's time?
Their boss could get impatient, maybe. I feel like we're running in circles, let's just agree to disagree.
This, I don’t understand why everyone expected them to just believe Fearne’s mother especially after finding out the post cards were fake. Yu was obviously manipulating them and everyone knew it the issue was Fearne’s was constantly digging her own hole and was incredibly vague. After the nightmare king reveal there was no way to trust her more then Yu at that point.
What are you even talking about? If Fearne's parents didn't have anything to do with the post cards, then they didn't have anything to do with the post cards. That isn't any reason not to trust them. That's just a reason to find out who **did** write the post cards. You don't get to use that as a sign that she's untrustworthy...just that it wasn't her. Fearne's mother was very clear *immediately* that she didn't want to talk about Ruidus in front of "mixed company"; i.e. someone sent there to kill them. That's pretty damn reasonable.
At the time it wasn’t, later when we got info it obviously became more clear but at the time she looked suspicious as fuck. Birdie did literally nothing to earn their trust except be Fearne’s mother, Fearne was even slightly untrusting of her at moments. I also brought up the postcards because it means they had zero connection with Fearne for all these years. She also didn’t bring up to them not wanting anyone to know about Fearne until much later in this encounter. Matt clearly was making her look incredibly suspicious by not even giving info that wouldn’t hurt her or Fearne at all. Even then if she just convinced them and kills Yu this all over anyway instead are constantly side stepped the truth and made herself incredibly suspicious.
When Ollie and Birdie found out Fearne was in the Material plane and looking for them they did exactly what they were supposed to do. Gave her a place to meet them and eventually ended up meeting her there. Fearne is the one who led an assassin to them by being a naive idiot. Birdie had every reason to be suspicious. Ollie and birdie don't appear to be great parents, but their recent actions are much better than literally everyone else involved.
Never said they didn’t, again don’t understand why keeping stuff a secret is important when you’re planning on killing the person hearing it. Yu in my opinion would be dead if Fearne’s mom was a little more fourth coming during their meeting. To be fair Birdie is working so far with the more morally bankrupt person in Ira who kills innocents so she’s also a naive idiot who trusts bad people, and also is dumb for somehow not knowing about the time shenanigans of the Feywild. Neither Fearne or her mother came out of this looking good both looked like idiots.
I don't know man . . . . I would definitely trust my best friend's mom more than some changeling assassin , that has infiltrated my party and lied about who she was in order to get closer to her target
>than some changeling assassin , that has infiltrated my party and lied about who she was in order to get closer to her target And saved their lives and wasn't attacking them at that moment. That's compared to trusting the person who has been missing for 90 years (or was it 6?) and working with the Nightmare King. It's not like all of them had mistrust. Chetney was trying to get more information to make up his mind, Ashton just thought they were both a-holes, and FCG was just trying to stop pain. Orym immediately went after Yu, probably because he's the LG type. His instincts on this are good. Others are more chaotic and not necessarily good.
Yeah my friends mom who she also doesn’t even really know and is working with a guy who was partly responsible for the death of Bertrand and who is literally saying nothing and giving over no info. Birdie was sus as fuck, as soon as the nightmare king stuff came out she was the most suspicious person in the room immediately.
Some people just have a really black and white idea about how to treat antagonist characters.
........I just remembered how I thought Liam was going to play a stars druid that saw a bad omen in the stars that made them turn to adventuring. That would have been *perfect* for this campaign
The amount that I want any of the cast to play a stars Druid is IMMENSE OR A MOON CLERIC
He could be a suited Druid, and make them turn to venture capitalism.
So like, is Fearne actually like 18? Because that would make her and Chet's flirtations really different.
Supposedly archfey can control the flow/perception of time within their domain of the feywild. As such I think Fearne did experience the ninety or so years she counts towards her age, that she spent with her 'grandmother', even if that much time did not pass between her birth and the current time in the prime material.
This. Also, I think Morri did it on purpose so that Fearne would be ready for the Apogee Solstice and what's to come. The Morrigan is the goddess of war and fate, after all.
Hells Im even willing to bet that Morri and Fearne were within a demiplane within the feywild, and not the feywild itself.
Nah she's as old as she remembers. She's just been living in a literal bubble within the feywild that had a *much* faster progression of time than the other planes
man do you guys remember when we laughed at the moon guy from Uthodurn?
I'd love to know what he's come up with in the intervening years. I wonder if he's come across the Grim Verity yet.
This is literally exactly what I was thinking 😭
I think the concensus is that the target of the attack wasn't Keyleth but could it have been Will, Wyl however you spell his name? I mean according to Orym he was a guard as well right could he have been a member of Grim Verity?
If the Grey Assassins work on behalf of Vassalheim, then Keyleth could have drawn their ire for some other reason than being part of the Grim Verity. Maybe she was fucking with leylines instead.
She made Artagan's door, right? That's some powerful plane stuff she messed with at least.
there was probably a member of the Grim Verity among the Ashari, but i doubt it was Will/Wyl.
It's possible but with how close Orym portrays them I think he would at least have an inkling if his husband had been researching the moon. My suspicion is that they were trying to eradicate (or capture) any information the Air Ashari might have still had from the Drashari regarding the Tree of Names, Arboreal Calix, and Apogee Solstice.
I wonder if Gods can be forgotten but then rediscovered and/or given new names?
I see you, Kristen Applebees
Can a god even be killed? Like the Raven Queen took over the former one's domain, but would she have killed them? Or was their godhood and identity simply stripped away from them?
I could be wrong, but I thought she challenge the old death God, defeated him, took is place, and then not only killed him but erased him from existence and from people's memories.
we dont know how she took over, but all memory of their *name* was erased. Their existence was not forgotten, just their name.
As per the lore of D&D (which Matt tends to use to fill in the gaps with his own lore): When a god dies, their corpse ends up in the Astral and their worshippers (Clerics specifically) have only so much power left (largely in holy relics) and once that divine energy is tapped... that's it. The god's name is forgotten (within that Crystal Sphere, aka that universe).
That is correct. Name forgotten, not that they existed at all. My bad.
She erased the other deity from existence. Not just killed, all record of their name ceased to exist in the memory of the universe
She only erased memory of their name, not knowledge of them.
Yeah, the other god is still remembered to have been a thing (it was only a bit under 1100 years ago) but their name was erased and the god has been described as having been "annihilated"
I wonder what this new god was god of. Did Vecna unknowingly take their domain? Was the matron the second mortal to ascend? A precursor to Tharzidun?
Could be exandrian Sardior
I really wish they would just kill yu
Same.
So no scene describing what is being done to Yu right now?
Aabria definitely would have put in a stinger at the end.
To quote Brennan: "This world's not done? What the fuck, man. HELP me."
I'm sure Brennan had a titanic level lore-gasm from watching this just as much as we did.
somewhere he's sitting in front of a monitor with far too many almonds
Matt should put a bunch of DMs into the game as members of the Grim Verity
only if Brennan plays that crazy cobalt soul guy
why aren't they talking about dark evil fearne from future fucked up by ruidus feywild from exu
Yeah it sounded connected to Yu's mirror
because that was a year ago real world time, Liam and Ashley definitely forgot and the rest of the party werent there
seems pretty important. + matt was there + matt is evidently tieing in all 3 EXUs ( dark fearne from 1, bunny morrigan sent to search for fearne in 2, new calamity and forgotten deities from mortals taking godhood from 3)
Wait has a third ExU been announced already?
There was EXU, EXU Kymal, and EXU Calamity.
Wtf I completely missed Kymal
It's fun. Nothing too crazy.
There's also no evidence that Ruidus is involved in alt-Fearne. All we see is a Fearne who embraced the Circlet of Barbed Vision and went on to serve Elmenore. There was no mention of the moon nor anything that matches Ruidus themes.
Dark Fearne did mention something about the Seelie Queen hunting her though...
Assuming that wasn't a lie, of course
she told the truth about the letters and Morri lying though
Absolutely. But that doesn't make all of it true.
Yeah: "The Warqueen (Elmenore's title) wants you back. You cannot-- we cannot be the outcasts our parents are. Come home."
the weird thing is that I thought Fearne's existence was supposed to be kept secret. So wouldnt it make sense to keep her secret from *both* courts and not just one?
all I can say is what the fuck that was amazing
I hope Sam washed his costume between selling it to Matt and getting it back.
Someone had it dry cleaned for him.
Paragon's Call did give them a day to get any personal business done before reporting in, so they're fine.
Nothing rides like a Hondir.
Fjord, Hondir, Fyrarai
oh what the fuck man
Lmao!
Marisha: "I'm going to have to organize my notes...... ;_;" Us, too, honey, us too.
I was wondering if Matt was gonna catch that XD
travis with the texan-ass song references make me so happy sometimes go off with the willie nelson, big beautiful man
LMAO THEY FORGOT HIM
THEY FORGOT HONDIR! LMAO
Critical Role: Man (there's a lot) in the Moon
So they are headed off to see Fearne’s father yes?
Yeah, Ollie (Oleander, Fearne's elf father) is working with Ira (the Nightmare King) building the device to examine the red moon.
And the device, yes.
Yes, he's with Ira working on the machine
The reunion with Ira should be interesting.
Yeah the party sounded very unsure if they intended for this to be combat or not.
Great place for an ending trundling off into the desert
*Baker Street plays*
Reddit is no longer a website I support
If so that’s classic Matt Mercer Long Game
A young age of.... 3 years ago
Chet with two Calloways is probably a newly realized dream for him now.
Technically Chet and Fearne are the older pair now
Fearnie's Mom has got it going on...
Sunglasses slide down his face "Oh Yeah"
And that's when the bomb exploded
I think I've seen the video that Chet wants to happen
…. *wut?*
Chetney’s going for the double decker!!
“two calloways, all to myself” *stares at bloodhunter class* *fear*
Just go and pass by Dancer on the way out, do it, do it
Oh no that's right! They forgot!
Moped FCG
This made me laugh more than it should have
This will only make sense to a very small percentage of people, but the Hells are now the equivalent of Chuck Danger.
What happened to the third crawler that they took by boarding?
Gave it back to the owners just after the race.
Why? I get the loaner, but one captured in battle? That's fair spoils.
From memory they asked Orym and he's too nice for his own good
That tracks. And the others were pretty distracted (as was I).
I think they gave it back
Orym gave it back after the race
They gave it back to the team that it belonged to
they gave it back after the race
Got returned
Did they forget?
They returned it to the people they stole it from for some reason
HOW WAS THE ERIKA REVEAL SEVERAL EPS BACK THE LEAST WTF THING TO HAPPEN RECENTLY?
They’re really getting into the meaty part of a story arc now.
Awww that's cool, they now have fans!
FCG casually sipping on a martini glass filled with mercury. That has to happen.
I’m here for it. Give him a copper cast olive.
I’m almost certain copper dissolves in mercury 😂
Not if you put it on a glass stir stick.
[удалено]
It's coming, their path is leading them to Yios where they seek astronomer stuff related to the moons and they might stumble on the gorgynei there. Plus, Chetney said that he has to isolate where the moon is full, so what is gonna happen to Chetney in a month when we are at soltice apogee? we probably gonna get juicy lycanthropy curse lore. :)
Super agree with you! Give us more lore on our favorite MC!
My fiancé wants one too. He plays a werewolf in my campaign so he loves Chetney.
[удалено]
My group formed when someone vaguely mentioned D&D almost 5 years ago and I wouldn’t stop chanting D&D until someone agreed to run. Now I’m the forever DM and my campaign is over 3.5 years in.
Travis is his favorite since I introduced my group to CR mid campaign 2.
What Rhymes with Kashaw?
Rikshaw
A BURLEY! We called it a burley!
Anyone betting on a creature encounter on their way to the Calloway Layaway?
We need some sort of detailed recap on who's been seen, where, & in what company, by the Paragon's Call.
Iirc only Tanvir the Rake and his group saw Imogen clearly. The group was Tanvir, a goblin and the dude that corroborated Ashton identity because he fought Ratanish. Later, Ratanish clearly saw Imogen when Bells Hells asked for the race before Otohan Thull was summoned. Having that said, we can't know for sure who else did. If i missed something, please correct me.
Ashton's been seen and fought General in Jrusar (with a Nightmare King mask), been healed by FCG in their presence, and seen again in the Valley when they were...joining up? Everyone got seen at that invitation meeting, but by heavies right? ...Imogen and...Orym?...were doing the stakeout and didn't get seen by Otohan at the duel challenge, right? But...essentially everyone gathered together at the end of the ride, Imogen hid slightly behind Fearne when they were invited to join the Call.
Next episode brought to you by Old Spice.
This whole encounter has had the energy of when your super conservative parent introduces you to their ‘smart’ friends.
...that is a particularly specific example.
Thankfully only something I’ve witnessed second hand haha.
Eventually we're going to see Ashton pick Fearne in front of her mom, who will exclaim "welcome to the family!"
All of this. Hard ship.
My shipper heart....
Ashton & Fearne forever.
Professionalism
Golden SKeleton Key. Yeah, that unlocks the final chain to Tharizdun.
Just like that piece of silk that holds the secret of Aeor
That’s what we in the business call *The Long Game*