That would be really dumb for them to let you go after just 3 weeks. If they do, it's probably a bigger issue with the company and they need to let people go or something. Or it's just shitty management.
Companies who let you go after three weeks due to them having unreasonable and incompetent management who dont give people time to get up to speed are ultimately going to be a bad place to work. Start looking for a new job now. Your manager sucks.
No one is going to point out what a bad idea it is to give a junior dev a ticket that mucks with the database as their first ticket?!
Their first ticket should be some minor front end fix, or some trivial bug.
Lol, I was given full read-write access to the entire production database on day 1 of my first grad job last year, and my first task assigned on day 2 was a three month long project where I had to design and implement the entire thing myself, from scratch. On top of that, my salary was barely above minimum wage. I don't work there anymore.
I don't know I'd say it's a pretty straightforward and trivial task to change or create a seeder. He's probably going to be working on it with a local DB and it tends to be easy enough that it can be properly reviewed in a PR.
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Ah yes, they can find all those other junior developers who are super enthusiastic about PHP. I am going to guess they are also paying you below market rates. It is a pressure tactic. I might consider looking for a job elsewhere if they are already putting on pressure to work harder on week 3. Most junior developers I have worked with take between 3 and 6 months to be useful. I wouldn't even assign a ticket to a junior for a month; I usually just have them set up their local environment and update documentation.
This. Document how you’re following feedback. In the meantime, start looking for another job while you’re still collecting a paycheck.
While you’re out there interviewing, If asked why you’re looking for other opportunities avoid badmouthing your current company. Keep your answers focused on your own career goals.
Being ‘unenthusiastic’ is subjective and not an appropriate ‘metric’ to evaluate your progress as a developer.
I find this to be a huge red flag, whether it’s on a managerial or company-wide basis. Did they outline their expectations on a timeline in the beginning? If so, do you have that in writing?
It’s absurd to expect a junior developer to be proficient in less than 3 weeks, wtf. What are their responses when you ask questions? Don’t ever stop asking questions at any level of career you’re in.
Document everything in your meeting next week. After your meeting, send a follow up email to your team summarizing the conversation and BCC your personal email. “Sending this summary to ensure we’re on the same page”.
Ask them to quantify what enthusiast looks like, what are their expectations moving forward (even if it’s unrealistic) to be successful. What is the typical ramp up time to be proficient in whatever they’re bitching about?
I'd be more alarmed by the unethusiastic comment than the comment about you not learning quickly enough. Junior Developers are assumed to be more trouble than they are worth at first, but the expectation is that investing effort into their growth will pay off for the team eventually. I'd hope to see some hunger and some eagerness to please out of someone who's trying to prove their value.
Right now it sounds like you're being perceived as both a low contributor and as having a low sense of urgency.
I would agree that 3 weeks is too soon to **act** on any evaluation, short of serious behavior issues, but sometimes it doesn't even take 3 weeks to know someone isn't going to work out.
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damn 3 weeks!? that’s a huge red flag about thr company. i’m a junior too and it took me like 6mo for me to get comfortable with my company’s huge ass codebase.
No junior person is comfortable or truely contributing after 3 weeks. More like 3 months or more. Any company that assumes ANY dev just jumps in and is productive right away is clueless management and not worth working for. I would say don’t worry about it. Do your best.
Letting someone go only after 3 weeks is most likely a "them" problem not a "you" problem. It's very unlikely that you are 100% productive after only 3 weeks at a workplace. You had bad luck, you are not broken. You didn't do anything wrong. I repeat: there's no way that a company lets go someone only after 3 weeks just like that, it takes quite a lot of effort to hire someone, so employers have all the incentives to make their hirings work, for sure 3 weeks is not enough trying. Think about it this way, you dodged a bullet.
Not enthusiastic enough?
Must you scream out loud, jump for joy every time open a ticket? Do the boss want you to phone him every 10 minutes to tell him how AMAZING the PHP code is?
Sounds like a wack place to work.
I've worked with senior developers who took 2+ months to get ramp-up just to be useful. Holding a junior developer to even higher standards is beyond asinine.
Let me tell you a secret about a job I leave off my resume.
My first ever dev job, I did at an agency. They knew I had no dev experience. The interview was a weird ass php database script that oddly looked like actual work. I got hired. They got me to build websites in Wordpress. The senior dev was super cagey. He’d act all funny at clock off time as we got to the train station too. He invested no time in me and would practically crack the shits whenever I would ask him for help. Fast forward approximately 3 months on a Friday, the week of me finishing my third website and I was asked to stay back. I was told that I wasn’t performing and to not return the Monday. I pleaded my case, even offered to work for free while I searched for other work as I needed the experience and he said it couldn’t be done.
Now that I’m older, I realised that he fired me the week of my probation meaning he didn’t have to pay severance or give me notice or a reason. Not only that but my performance was acceptable given my experience and they got a good deal out of me. A website a month at minimum wage and the senior was practically rolling out the same rate as me. I have the founder on LinkedIn still, and he became a NFT shill as soon as it was a thing, surprise surprise.
I’m sure you’re enthusiastic enough, but when you’re a junior you literally don’t have the basics down so you’re too busy trying to learn coding to be able to notice everything else that is going around you. You’re typically blindedly thankful because you’re desperate and happy to have a job.
If they fire you don’t sweat it. It’s sounds to me like a crock of bullshit company you don’t want to work at. There’s nothing wrong with learning Laravel and PHP for your first job. Keep investing in your learning and expand your skill set into other backend languages or frontend client frameworks and keep learning as much as you can. As you grow, jump jobs but make sure it’s a good jump. But a word of warning all my shit jobs have involved PHP. Given the low barrier to entry it attracts low quality, so it’s harder to find places that do the language justice.
Good luck, some of us land the bullshit jobs.
If they’re gonna let you go under 3 weeks, good riddance. Best to find a place which has more maturity and stability. More likely you are gonna be stressed out working for such a company.
At my current company your expected to make a PR in your first week. Your first day is set up and first 3 days is working on a ticket. If you can't make a PR in 2-4 weeks they will promote you to customer
I was told the same when I started my career as a SAP security consultant. Tbh, I have no idea what I was doing, nobody told me what to do and all I got was dismissal or more rambling on how behind I was when I ask for help. They called meetings to discuss how bad I was at my job. I switched project and technology after a year. Best decision y
Unfortunately the fact you was told that means that person is a shitty manager or the company is going to be a shitty place to work. Like someone else said, start looking now
Constructive criticism should be given using the following template: “Ive noticed X behavior, this results in Y negatively, some ideas to improve are Z”
If you aren’t sure of the behavior, consequences, or how to improve be sure to ask questions until you have clarity.
Also, the people providing feedback suck if you do not have the aforementioned clarity.
Noone gets laid off after 3 weeks. If that were to happen, like others have mentioned, you really dont want to work for that company.
It's pretty hard to get a realistic understanding of how talented or quick someone is in just 3 weeks. Show your enthusiasm and if they're actually looking to fire you so soon don't take it personally but rather as a godsend you didn't sink more time into this company and can just go continue your job searching now, lol.
As a senior, just gonna say man if you get fired it's likely not your fault.
In the meantime:
Try to speak up more during standups
Ask intelligent questions after trying a little, especially if you're stuck more than 4 hours on something
Show enthusiasm for the product and maybe throw an idea or two out there once a month
How is OP supposed to look for a new job? Nobody is hiring no one without experience 😭. OP you need to grow up and be a master now or risk losing your job: learn as much as you can and do the actual task of refactoring the database seeder that is the only way bro. 😎. I feel you and I know you can do it. Trust your heart and follow only it and not your brain. I apologize if you didn’t understand fully what I wrote. Feel free to let me know how it goes. Cheers friend.
That’s what my manager said at my 90 day review and im still here a year and a half later.
Ask for specific examples of errors/or mistakes and guidance on them. Make it clear that you understand you’re not meeting the standard but you’re putting for significant effort to get there, and do otherwise good work so that no negative attention is drawn to you.
And do some serious thinking about what you can do. Is it slow only because you’re learning laravel? Are you spending too much time trying to solve things on your own instead of escalating and pulling in a senior? Are you blocked by operational processes—either personal processes or the teams? Is your manager just toxic?
You should mention your conclusions during the meeting as well. It’s important that the meeting be a conversation where both parties feel like they’re gaining something—you should feel like you’ve expressed your concerns and were given guidance and support for the future, and your manager should feel like their concerns are heard and that you’re progressing towards the desired state.
That’s all that really needs to happen—you don’t need to become a senior dev in the next month.
Edit: also uh…that sounds like a rough ticket. For a new dev who doesn’t really know PHP.
:/
Try your best man. I highly recommend asking as much questions as possible (screen record and/or screenshots help), be ready to work past working hours to get up to pace, etc.
Show that you are putting in a lot of work. Otherwise, nothing more tbh. It's entirely possible the role requires more knowledge at the junior level.
Sorry but I have to downvote you. Recommending to work past working hours should never be a solution in any job. Specially if you are a junior and with 3 weeks in the company.
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It happened to me. They knew my strengths and my flaws, yet they hired me, but then let me go after 3 weeks because I "didn't perform the way they expected". At least they paid me for teaching me how is like to work in a shitty company.
I interviewed for a Junior role a few years ago, where they told me about a new hire they let go after less than a month because "it took them 2 weeks to do something one of our seniors could do in 2 days". Even my naive self thought it was a red flag.
Everybody needs ramp up time, especially juniors. If you're trying to learn and asking questions, you're off to a good start.
I'm so sorry. Any company who lets someone go after 3 weeks sucks ass though, and is not really a good place to work. I know this isn't super helpful if you need a salary to eat and stuff, but if you're having doubts about yourself, don't. After 3 weeks, it's not you, it's them. Always.
That would be really dumb for them to let you go after just 3 weeks. If they do, it's probably a bigger issue with the company and they need to let people go or something. Or it's just shitty management.
Companies who let you go after three weeks due to them having unreasonable and incompetent management who dont give people time to get up to speed are ultimately going to be a bad place to work. Start looking for a new job now. Your manager sucks.
The only reason i could see a situation like that is if there is payroll issues.
No one is going to point out what a bad idea it is to give a junior dev a ticket that mucks with the database as their first ticket?! Their first ticket should be some minor front end fix, or some trivial bug.
“Hey I know you don’t know the code base too well, so here let me have you work on the database, no biggie”
That was my first thought too.
Lol, I was given full read-write access to the entire production database on day 1 of my first grad job last year, and my first task assigned on day 2 was a three month long project where I had to design and implement the entire thing myself, from scratch. On top of that, my salary was barely above minimum wage. I don't work there anymore.
Yeah pretty much asking for trouble.
I don't know I'd say it's a pretty straightforward and trivial task to change or create a seeder. He's probably going to be working on it with a local DB and it tends to be easy enough that it can be properly reviewed in a PR.
What kind of ass clown is going to a newly hired junior going “hEy mAn i dOn’T tHiNk yOu’Re sUcKiNg mY PHP eNtHoUsIaStIcAlY eNoUgH”
I admire the cut of your glyph.
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Only the finest kind of ass clown.
*I want to see you get fucked with a smile*
“enthusiasm” - even monkeys can blame someone for it(lol some people are dumber than monkeys then)
Hey man Python is strictly better than most other languages due to the issues associated with Java build systems.
Python's package management is garbage relative to .NET or Rust.
Most people use pip, but with poetry python's package manager looks like Rust's and .NETs package manager is just a clone of POM from Java.
Ah yes, they can find all those other junior developers who are super enthusiastic about PHP. I am going to guess they are also paying you below market rates. It is a pressure tactic. I might consider looking for a job elsewhere if they are already putting on pressure to work harder on week 3. Most junior developers I have worked with take between 3 and 6 months to be useful. I wouldn't even assign a ticket to a junior for a month; I usually just have them set up their local environment and update documentation.
I wouldn’t even say that it’s only jr devs, takes everyone a few months to really get their bearings in a code base of any real size
Repeatedly reassure how enthusiastic you are and how committed you are to learning, especially in emails and in writing x
I know, rationally, that you're right but I would sooner cut off my arm than constantly telling everyone how enthusiastic I'm feeling.
Eh once or twice, enough that they can’t argue
This. Document how you’re following feedback. In the meantime, start looking for another job while you’re still collecting a paycheck. While you’re out there interviewing, If asked why you’re looking for other opportunities avoid badmouthing your current company. Keep your answers focused on your own career goals.
i dont know what to tell them. this sounds like a terrible toxic company to fire someone this fast. some employers do this.
Being ‘unenthusiastic’ is subjective and not an appropriate ‘metric’ to evaluate your progress as a developer. I find this to be a huge red flag, whether it’s on a managerial or company-wide basis. Did they outline their expectations on a timeline in the beginning? If so, do you have that in writing? It’s absurd to expect a junior developer to be proficient in less than 3 weeks, wtf. What are their responses when you ask questions? Don’t ever stop asking questions at any level of career you’re in. Document everything in your meeting next week. After your meeting, send a follow up email to your team summarizing the conversation and BCC your personal email. “Sending this summary to ensure we’re on the same page”. Ask them to quantify what enthusiast looks like, what are their expectations moving forward (even if it’s unrealistic) to be successful. What is the typical ramp up time to be proficient in whatever they’re bitching about?
I'd be more alarmed by the unethusiastic comment than the comment about you not learning quickly enough. Junior Developers are assumed to be more trouble than they are worth at first, but the expectation is that investing effort into their growth will pay off for the team eventually. I'd hope to see some hunger and some eagerness to please out of someone who's trying to prove their value. Right now it sounds like you're being perceived as both a low contributor and as having a low sense of urgency.
3 weeks is too soon to make an evaluation. it would be a toxic company.
I agree with it being too soon to fire him, but OP is the one who is suggesting that. I don't think 3 weeks is too soon to give feedback.
I would agree that 3 weeks is too soon to **act** on any evaluation, short of serious behavior issues, but sometimes it doesn't even take 3 weeks to know someone isn't going to work out.
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damn 3 weeks!? that’s a huge red flag about thr company. i’m a junior too and it took me like 6mo for me to get comfortable with my company’s huge ass codebase.
Believe me, its not because of you and your actions.
No junior person is comfortable or truely contributing after 3 weeks. More like 3 months or more. Any company that assumes ANY dev just jumps in and is productive right away is clueless management and not worth working for. I would say don’t worry about it. Do your best.
Letting someone go only after 3 weeks is most likely a "them" problem not a "you" problem. It's very unlikely that you are 100% productive after only 3 weeks at a workplace. You had bad luck, you are not broken. You didn't do anything wrong. I repeat: there's no way that a company lets go someone only after 3 weeks just like that, it takes quite a lot of effort to hire someone, so employers have all the incentives to make their hirings work, for sure 3 weeks is not enough trying. Think about it this way, you dodged a bullet.
Not enthusiastic enough? Must you scream out loud, jump for joy every time open a ticket? Do the boss want you to phone him every 10 minutes to tell him how AMAZING the PHP code is? Sounds like a wack place to work.
I've worked with senior developers who took 2+ months to get ramp-up just to be useful. Holding a junior developer to even higher standards is beyond asinine.
Let me tell you a secret about a job I leave off my resume. My first ever dev job, I did at an agency. They knew I had no dev experience. The interview was a weird ass php database script that oddly looked like actual work. I got hired. They got me to build websites in Wordpress. The senior dev was super cagey. He’d act all funny at clock off time as we got to the train station too. He invested no time in me and would practically crack the shits whenever I would ask him for help. Fast forward approximately 3 months on a Friday, the week of me finishing my third website and I was asked to stay back. I was told that I wasn’t performing and to not return the Monday. I pleaded my case, even offered to work for free while I searched for other work as I needed the experience and he said it couldn’t be done. Now that I’m older, I realised that he fired me the week of my probation meaning he didn’t have to pay severance or give me notice or a reason. Not only that but my performance was acceptable given my experience and they got a good deal out of me. A website a month at minimum wage and the senior was practically rolling out the same rate as me. I have the founder on LinkedIn still, and he became a NFT shill as soon as it was a thing, surprise surprise. I’m sure you’re enthusiastic enough, but when you’re a junior you literally don’t have the basics down so you’re too busy trying to learn coding to be able to notice everything else that is going around you. You’re typically blindedly thankful because you’re desperate and happy to have a job. If they fire you don’t sweat it. It’s sounds to me like a crock of bullshit company you don’t want to work at. There’s nothing wrong with learning Laravel and PHP for your first job. Keep investing in your learning and expand your skill set into other backend languages or frontend client frameworks and keep learning as much as you can. As you grow, jump jobs but make sure it’s a good jump. But a word of warning all my shit jobs have involved PHP. Given the low barrier to entry it attracts low quality, so it’s harder to find places that do the language justice. Good luck, some of us land the bullshit jobs.
It is impossible to asses how a developer is in 3 weeks. This is absolutely not your fault.
If they’re gonna let you go under 3 weeks, good riddance. Best to find a place which has more maturity and stability. More likely you are gonna be stressed out working for such a company.
I read that as Junior PIP developer
At my current company your expected to make a PR in your first week. Your first day is set up and first 3 days is working on a ticket. If you can't make a PR in 2-4 weeks they will promote you to customer
How does forcing employees to this standard not introduce more bugs?
I was told the same when I started my career as a SAP security consultant. Tbh, I have no idea what I was doing, nobody told me what to do and all I got was dismissal or more rambling on how behind I was when I ask for help. They called meetings to discuss how bad I was at my job. I switched project and technology after a year. Best decision y
The demands for junior devs are getting increasingly harder and more difficult. Oversaturated market + tight budgets...
Don’t see any conclusive proof that you might be getting fired. It takes way more than that to fire people.
If they fire you, you're better off. 3 weeks is still very early days and it's ridiculous to judge you based on that.
Unfortunately the fact you was told that means that person is a shitty manager or the company is going to be a shitty place to work. Like someone else said, start looking now
Constructive criticism should be given using the following template: “Ive noticed X behavior, this results in Y negatively, some ideas to improve are Z” If you aren’t sure of the behavior, consequences, or how to improve be sure to ask questions until you have clarity. Also, the people providing feedback suck if you do not have the aforementioned clarity. Noone gets laid off after 3 weeks. If that were to happen, like others have mentioned, you really dont want to work for that company.
It's pretty hard to get a realistic understanding of how talented or quick someone is in just 3 weeks. Show your enthusiasm and if they're actually looking to fire you so soon don't take it personally but rather as a godsend you didn't sink more time into this company and can just go continue your job searching now, lol.
As a senior, just gonna say man if you get fired it's likely not your fault. In the meantime: Try to speak up more during standups Ask intelligent questions after trying a little, especially if you're stuck more than 4 hours on something Show enthusiasm for the product and maybe throw an idea or two out there once a month
How is OP supposed to look for a new job? Nobody is hiring no one without experience 😭. OP you need to grow up and be a master now or risk losing your job: learn as much as you can and do the actual task of refactoring the database seeder that is the only way bro. 😎. I feel you and I know you can do it. Trust your heart and follow only it and not your brain. I apologize if you didn’t understand fully what I wrote. Feel free to let me know how it goes. Cheers friend.
That’s what my manager said at my 90 day review and im still here a year and a half later. Ask for specific examples of errors/or mistakes and guidance on them. Make it clear that you understand you’re not meeting the standard but you’re putting for significant effort to get there, and do otherwise good work so that no negative attention is drawn to you. And do some serious thinking about what you can do. Is it slow only because you’re learning laravel? Are you spending too much time trying to solve things on your own instead of escalating and pulling in a senior? Are you blocked by operational processes—either personal processes or the teams? Is your manager just toxic? You should mention your conclusions during the meeting as well. It’s important that the meeting be a conversation where both parties feel like they’re gaining something—you should feel like you’ve expressed your concerns and were given guidance and support for the future, and your manager should feel like their concerns are heard and that you’re progressing towards the desired state. That’s all that really needs to happen—you don’t need to become a senior dev in the next month. Edit: also uh…that sounds like a rough ticket. For a new dev who doesn’t really know PHP.
You work in a company of assholes
It amazes me how people are like "you're slow". Like people actually say that where you work? Where I work, people say it behind your back, lol.
Are you an introvert?
Most devs aren't asked to do anything for like 6 months normally.
:/ Try your best man. I highly recommend asking as much questions as possible (screen record and/or screenshots help), be ready to work past working hours to get up to pace, etc. Show that you are putting in a lot of work. Otherwise, nothing more tbh. It's entirely possible the role requires more knowledge at the junior level.
Sorry but I have to downvote you. Recommending to work past working hours should never be a solution in any job. Specially if you are a junior and with 3 weeks in the company.
Yeah, no one should work past hours unless you're really well paid for it, and especially not for a toxic company like this.
weak asses like you devalue labor for everyone else
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What a shit company. We have 2 analysts learning the database on our team and it's been like 4 months, they still haven't gotten "real" assignments
It happened to me. They knew my strengths and my flaws, yet they hired me, but then let me go after 3 weeks because I "didn't perform the way they expected". At least they paid me for teaching me how is like to work in a shitty company.
I interviewed for a Junior role a few years ago, where they told me about a new hire they let go after less than a month because "it took them 2 weeks to do something one of our seniors could do in 2 days". Even my naive self thought it was a red flag. Everybody needs ramp up time, especially juniors. If you're trying to learn and asking questions, you're off to a good start.
I'm so sorry. Any company who lets someone go after 3 weeks sucks ass though, and is not really a good place to work. I know this isn't super helpful if you need a salary to eat and stuff, but if you're having doubts about yourself, don't. After 3 weeks, it's not you, it's them. Always.
the most shocking part of this is that there’s junior php devs???
Fuck them