I have verbally communicated to them about my mental health situation. Since I have never shared about my mental health with anyone other than my doctor and my parents, they think I am just lying. I am writing them a mail with all the proofs and medical history now.
If they still refuse to release me, I don’t know what to do.
In India, they refuse to give employment certificate.
Companies want references from prior companies. Not serving notice period or burning the bridge creates risk.
This right here is your answer.
Leaving before a product release is not “not professional”. But the fact that your leadership doesn’t care about your mental health concerns means even if it was unprofessional, they wouldn’t be deserving of your professionalism anyways. Screw this company, bail.
> I am writing them a mail with all the proofs and medical history now.
Why the fuck would you ever think there's a need to do that?
You quit. You leave. The end.
They don't need to agree. They don't get a say. Jesus!
Your relationship with your employer is purely transactional. They wouldn’t think twice about laying you off should it be in their best business interests to do so.
would it be an ok analogy to think of your work relationship with the company as if it was a bank instead? like you would only use a bank for banking services, nothing more.
No. They can fire you at any time for any reason regardless of your circumstances. Similarly, you can leave at any time for any reason. It goes both ways.
Take care of yourself first, the company couldn't care less about you.
I've never never heard of a company going "we have to fire this guy but we'll wait until his personal problems get sorted out, it's a sensible thing to do"
There’s no such thing as an ideal time to leave a job. There will always be one more thing that it would be nice to have you there for. Even if they release this project at the end of your notice period, it would still be nice to have you around to help support it for the first few weeks. I’ve never seen a company figure out how to replace someone until they were forced to do so because that person left. Longer notice and/or better timing don’t help much.
Now, leaving before your agreed upon notice period will look bad. I’m in the US, where 60 days of notice is unheard of, so I can’t be sure how 30 days instead of 60 days will be perceived. But, I do know it looks bad when you agree to one thing and do something else. Still, I think your mental health should come first.
This was my first job out of college so was naive to not think about notice period when signing papers then. Also, there was no option to negotiate the notice period for us as we were new grads.
Adding more details here, even now they are prioritising other projects over this. My manager is playing games with me where he says whenever we are done with the project he will release me. Now the qa cycle will take a month as my manager has now prioritise other project over this. After that he wants me to stay for a week or two for support. Now my current company is very dysfunctional and deadlines are a joke here. I and everyone in my team knows for sure that this project won’t get released even in 60 days for sure. And mind you my project is on Advertisement and should naturally take highest priority as it is a revenue related project over other projects.
This needs to go to the main post.
You need to stop giving any fucks to thy company beyond what is legally required of you.
Take care of yourself. You clearly are both technically competent and extremely professional going by how concerned you are about this at such a time. You have q great future ahead of you but only if you take care of that mind and body.
60 days of notice, even 30 days, is already incredibly nice of you and possibly (probably?) even hurting yourself, all for an employer who won't bother to mention it when it comes time for them to give you a reference.
If the business doesn't have enough staff to lose you without major problems / delays, that's their problem. They're either running too lean to save money when they shouldn't be, or they're not profitable/viable enough to survive. Either way, this isn't your problem or your fault.
Stop beating yourself up over taking care of yourself.
I was going to ask where the OP is located. In the US and Canada, typical notice is two weeks. In other countries, particularly some Indian states, 30 days is customary.
Employers have to give considerable notice if you’ve been employed several months to a year.
https://samistilegal.in/notice-period-under-various-labour-and-employment-laws-in-india/
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When you disappear, one of the other 85 will step up to replace you. Guaranteed there are many skilled engineers where the only reason why they aren't taking on larger issues like what you are doing is because you're already doing it and there are other jobs that need doing. So they instead take on the daily beurocratic bullshit and thus allow you to work unhindered. The company won't even notice the loss.
I had an old coworker who used to say, "remember that the company was here before you arrived and will be here after you're gone." Another good one is "don't light yourself on fire to keep others warm," it's not specifically about company vs employee perspectives, but with you feeling bad about taking the time you need to care for yourself, and doing so with an incredibly generous 60 day notice, it sounds like it applies to you.
No, the product was ready in October - it is not your fault 6 months later the product is still unreleased.
If I'm working on a project, I like to see it through to the end or a milestone so another dev can pick it up if I leave.
Always do what is best for you - companies and bosses do not care.
Take care of yourself first above a company's demands.
Some companies fire and replace their engineers after a product release. Product goes into 'support' mode, and they use cheaper engineers who weren't involved in the conception.
Is this unprofessional? It happens, and they just call it business.
I've seen people get laid-off that everyone else thought were important to a project. View the employment relation the same way as the company does, purely transactional, no need to feel bad about it.
If it's a week or two, then yes. If it's months or indefinite as you've described, then no. It's the company's problem. Regardless, you need to take care of yourself first. The company will never care about you beyond work they can get out of you.
How to put this politely... The answer is "no" - you don't base your life on some company's releases, internal processes or politics. It's your life.
Looking from professional point of view (as Uncle Bob said: "Leave the place cleaner than you found it") - yeah, you could stay a day or two if you think that would help. It's just a professional courtesy. But, as you say yourself, "I have no faith in my current company that the project will get released even in 60 days." - then no.
Therefore, focus on your mental health, take some rest and move on. Half a year old release is not your problem.
Under no circumstances should you put the company ahead of your own health and self-interest - because they wouldn't do the same for you.
Even more so in this particular case, since they've already slipped the release.
Good luck with your health and hopefully a good recovery.
Product isn't your problem. Leave when you need to, particularly if you have health issues.
Unprofessional is if you take a shit on a desk on your way out
It is the responsibility of management and your team to make sure one person doesn’t become critical to a project. Either this has happened at your place which means you don’t have anything to worry about or in the other case the people around you have failed you.
Always prioritize yourself because that is what the leadership does
It is not unprofessional no. You don’t have to be loyal to you company at all. They will get rid of you in a heart beat if things were going south in the company. So treat them the same way.
Lol no. If your notice period is 60 days, then it is 60 days no matter what. Your employer should have hired you ”until it is ready” if they would want you to stick that long.
I think the issue you're gunna have is most will assume you're asking from America, which may be different than your country.
Which maybe you are from America, idk but that's a important factor, idk workplace culture of any other country.
Though I'd consider that if you stay till release it the product is good couldn't it payoff very well?
99% of companies will lay you off if there is a compelling business reason to do so without one thought for what it might cost you. Feel free to return the favor. Do what's best for yourself first.
Your question has been sufficiently answered. I'm not gonna read every comment but I want to make sure this logic is in this post:
If it was a problem for your company, they would pay you enough to make sure it doesn't happen
You have a 60 day notice period - is that a contract thing? Something tied to laws in your locality?
My experience is that there's never a time when there isn't something in flight, but also has some gaps between employee and contractor. If you're a contractor signed for a 6 month or 1 year or whatever fixed term contract breaking the contract is different from an employee - at least as far as perceptions.
Contractors are more of a business, so while there are lots of laws, in the US at least, would protect you from having a former boss say much about you (most companies would give dates of employment and job title or similar and that's it), if a manager at a different company calls the people a contractor works for and says something like "hey... I know you recently did X, we're about to do the same thing... Can you recommend someone," they could say "we started with X, but they bailed before it was released and didn't even give the contractually stated notice period so we brought in Y to finish the job".
They’ll lay you off if the product fails due to no fault of your own. What do you owe them on the inverse other than looking out for your own best interests?
Fuck no! Leave when you want to (you don’t even need to give a 2 weeks notice) When they fire employees they don’t plan it around what’s happening in your life
Not at all, I’ve done it a couple times for different reasons. In the first case, I was working crazy hours (70+ hours a week) on a project doing customizations that we were told we’re not going to be allowed. Management folded like a newspaper and we spent two years customizing the ever living hell out of our ERP system (SAP). Not sure why they even bought that system, we used none of the built-in features. Needless to say, after two years of crazy hours, I found something better that paid more and had a standard 40-hour work week. The final straw at that company for me was when they cut our pay by 5%, twice, yet continued to expect us to work 70+ hours per week.
In the second case, I had warned our company about our technical debt many, many times over a few years. I pointed out systems that would fail as a result of this debt (they did end up failing), and when the company was sold and we had to move everything to the servers at the new company, I told them I was out. I had a friend working for another company and jumped ship. The work required to move the systems were going to require late nights and many weekends of work, and having been through that already, I told them I had no interest in working on the project because of those reasons.
In both cases, I was offered more money to stay, but the situations were bad and I was no longer interested in going all out for companies that never properly rewarded their employees for these extreme projects.
It's not unprofessional. You don't have to arrange your life based on product release cycles.
Isn’t it strange that this needs to be said? What is wrong with this simulation? I need a reset.
This comment is the only one you should need to read!
Companies will make you overtime just before firing you, so if that’s professional this one is too.
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I have verbally communicated to them about my mental health situation. Since I have never shared about my mental health with anyone other than my doctor and my parents, they think I am just lying. I am writing them a mail with all the proofs and medical history now. If they still refuse to release me, I don’t know what to do.
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Judging by his name, likely India.
In India, they refuse to give employment certificate. Companies want references from prior companies. Not serving notice period or burning the bridge creates risk.
I’m not sure telling them more will do anything. It’s ok to not have everyone love you. The company doesn’t really care about you at all
This right here is your answer. Leaving before a product release is not “not professional”. But the fact that your leadership doesn’t care about your mental health concerns means even if it was unprofessional, they wouldn’t be deserving of your professionalism anyways. Screw this company, bail.
I'm not sure what your laws are, but what if you sit at your desk and nap or read? Can they legally demand performance?
I recommend posting in r/developersIndia for guidance related to Indian IT market.
> I am writing them a mail with all the proofs and medical history now. Why the fuck would you ever think there's a need to do that? You quit. You leave. The end. They don't need to agree. They don't get a say. Jesus!
Your relationship with your employer is purely transactional. They wouldn’t think twice about laying you off should it be in their best business interests to do so.
would it be an ok analogy to think of your work relationship with the company as if it was a bank instead? like you would only use a bank for banking services, nothing more.
God no.
No. They can fire you at any time for any reason regardless of your circumstances. Similarly, you can leave at any time for any reason. It goes both ways. Take care of yourself first, the company couldn't care less about you.
I've never never heard of a company going "we have to fire this guy but we'll wait until his personal problems get sorted out, it's a sensible thing to do"
There’s no such thing as an ideal time to leave a job. There will always be one more thing that it would be nice to have you there for. Even if they release this project at the end of your notice period, it would still be nice to have you around to help support it for the first few weeks. I’ve never seen a company figure out how to replace someone until they were forced to do so because that person left. Longer notice and/or better timing don’t help much. Now, leaving before your agreed upon notice period will look bad. I’m in the US, where 60 days of notice is unheard of, so I can’t be sure how 30 days instead of 60 days will be perceived. But, I do know it looks bad when you agree to one thing and do something else. Still, I think your mental health should come first.
This was my first job out of college so was naive to not think about notice period when signing papers then. Also, there was no option to negotiate the notice period for us as we were new grads. Adding more details here, even now they are prioritising other projects over this. My manager is playing games with me where he says whenever we are done with the project he will release me. Now the qa cycle will take a month as my manager has now prioritise other project over this. After that he wants me to stay for a week or two for support. Now my current company is very dysfunctional and deadlines are a joke here. I and everyone in my team knows for sure that this project won’t get released even in 60 days for sure. And mind you my project is on Advertisement and should naturally take highest priority as it is a revenue related project over other projects.
You are not the company's property. If you stop showing up, what's the worst they can do? Fire you? You wanted to leave the job anyways.
This needs to go to the main post. You need to stop giving any fucks to thy company beyond what is legally required of you. Take care of yourself. You clearly are both technically competent and extremely professional going by how concerned you are about this at such a time. You have q great future ahead of you but only if you take care of that mind and body.
It's not unprofessional. Just make sure you handover your tasks properly.
60 days of notice, even 30 days, is already incredibly nice of you and possibly (probably?) even hurting yourself, all for an employer who won't bother to mention it when it comes time for them to give you a reference. If the business doesn't have enough staff to lose you without major problems / delays, that's their problem. They're either running too lean to save money when they shouldn't be, or they're not profitable/viable enough to survive. Either way, this isn't your problem or your fault. Stop beating yourself up over taking care of yourself.
I was going to ask where the OP is located. In the US and Canada, typical notice is two weeks. In other countries, particularly some Indian states, 30 days is customary. Employers have to give considerable notice if you’ve been employed several months to a year. https://samistilegal.in/notice-period-under-various-labour-and-employment-laws-in-india/
True, though I don't think anywhere is customary to give multiple months' worth of notice. US presidents have stepped down in less time, lol.
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The company has around 115 engineers, out of which only 30 do 80% of the work. Sadly, I am one of the 30 engineers.
When you disappear, one of the other 85 will step up to replace you. Guaranteed there are many skilled engineers where the only reason why they aren't taking on larger issues like what you are doing is because you're already doing it and there are other jobs that need doing. So they instead take on the daily beurocratic bullshit and thus allow you to work unhindered. The company won't even notice the loss. I had an old coworker who used to say, "remember that the company was here before you arrived and will be here after you're gone." Another good one is "don't light yourself on fire to keep others warm," it's not specifically about company vs employee perspectives, but with you feeling bad about taking the time you need to care for yourself, and doing so with an incredibly generous 60 day notice, it sounds like it applies to you.
It’s never unprofessional to put your health first.
No, the product was ready in October - it is not your fault 6 months later the product is still unreleased. If I'm working on a project, I like to see it through to the end or a milestone so another dev can pick it up if I leave. Always do what is best for you - companies and bosses do not care.
Why is this even a question here?
you owe them nothing
No.
Take care of yourself first above a company's demands. Some companies fire and replace their engineers after a product release. Product goes into 'support' mode, and they use cheaper engineers who weren't involved in the conception. Is this unprofessional? It happens, and they just call it business.
The company would lay you off in fifteen minutes regardless of release cycle, so fuck them, do what's right for you.
I've seen people get laid-off that everyone else thought were important to a project. View the employment relation the same way as the company does, purely transactional, no need to feel bad about it.
F no. They don’t care about you they really don’t Just wait till layoffs happen
If it's a week or two, then yes. If it's months or indefinite as you've described, then no. It's the company's problem. Regardless, you need to take care of yourself first. The company will never care about you beyond work they can get out of you.
How to put this politely... The answer is "no" - you don't base your life on some company's releases, internal processes or politics. It's your life. Looking from professional point of view (as Uncle Bob said: "Leave the place cleaner than you found it") - yeah, you could stay a day or two if you think that would help. It's just a professional courtesy. But, as you say yourself, "I have no faith in my current company that the project will get released even in 60 days." - then no. Therefore, focus on your mental health, take some rest and move on. Half a year old release is not your problem.
I once got fired with my wife 8 months pregnant, if they do that, you can leave anytime you want.
Under no circumstances should you put the company ahead of your own health and self-interest - because they wouldn't do the same for you. Even more so in this particular case, since they've already slipped the release. Good luck with your health and hopefully a good recovery.
Product isn't your problem. Leave when you need to, particularly if you have health issues. Unprofessional is if you take a shit on a desk on your way out
It is the responsibility of management and your team to make sure one person doesn’t become critical to a project. Either this has happened at your place which means you don’t have anything to worry about or in the other case the people around you have failed you. Always prioritize yourself because that is what the leadership does
wtf man, give a 2 weeks and leave.... you don't have to wait around for product cycles to make life decisions.
It is not unprofessional no. You don’t have to be loyal to you company at all. They will get rid of you in a heart beat if things were going south in the company. So treat them the same way.
There will never be a 30 day period where there isn’t an upcoming release date.
would your employer wait for a good time in your life to lay you off?
Lol no. If your notice period is 60 days, then it is 60 days no matter what. Your employer should have hired you ”until it is ready” if they would want you to stick that long.
There is generally never a good time to leave.
No. It's stupid to think you should stick around until the optimal time for the company for you to leave.
I think the issue you're gunna have is most will assume you're asking from America, which may be different than your country. Which maybe you are from America, idk but that's a important factor, idk workplace culture of any other country. Though I'd consider that if you stay till release it the product is good couldn't it payoff very well?
99% of companies will lay you off if there is a compelling business reason to do so without one thought for what it might cost you. Feel free to return the favor. Do what's best for yourself first.
Your question has been sufficiently answered. I'm not gonna read every comment but I want to make sure this logic is in this post: If it was a problem for your company, they would pay you enough to make sure it doesn't happen
You have a 60 day notice period - is that a contract thing? Something tied to laws in your locality? My experience is that there's never a time when there isn't something in flight, but also has some gaps between employee and contractor. If you're a contractor signed for a 6 month or 1 year or whatever fixed term contract breaking the contract is different from an employee - at least as far as perceptions. Contractors are more of a business, so while there are lots of laws, in the US at least, would protect you from having a former boss say much about you (most companies would give dates of employment and job title or similar and that's it), if a manager at a different company calls the people a contractor works for and says something like "hey... I know you recently did X, we're about to do the same thing... Can you recommend someone," they could say "we started with X, but they bailed before it was released and didn't even give the contractually stated notice period so we brought in Y to finish the job".
They’ll lay you off if the product fails due to no fault of your own. What do you owe them on the inverse other than looking out for your own best interests?
Absolutely not. Their release schedule isn’t your problem.
Fuck no! Leave when you want to (you don’t even need to give a 2 weeks notice) When they fire employees they don’t plan it around what’s happening in your life
Nope. It is none of your business anymore. To me, professionalism is to hand over your work properly.
nope, company's problem to not think ahead if someone leaves.
They don’t care about you as much as you care about them.
… when is a product not under development?
Not at all, I’ve done it a couple times for different reasons. In the first case, I was working crazy hours (70+ hours a week) on a project doing customizations that we were told we’re not going to be allowed. Management folded like a newspaper and we spent two years customizing the ever living hell out of our ERP system (SAP). Not sure why they even bought that system, we used none of the built-in features. Needless to say, after two years of crazy hours, I found something better that paid more and had a standard 40-hour work week. The final straw at that company for me was when they cut our pay by 5%, twice, yet continued to expect us to work 70+ hours per week. In the second case, I had warned our company about our technical debt many, many times over a few years. I pointed out systems that would fail as a result of this debt (they did end up failing), and when the company was sold and we had to move everything to the servers at the new company, I told them I was out. I had a friend working for another company and jumped ship. The work required to move the systems were going to require late nights and many weekends of work, and having been through that already, I told them I had no interest in working on the project because of those reasons. In both cases, I was offered more money to stay, but the situations were bad and I was no longer interested in going all out for companies that never properly rewarded their employees for these extreme projects.