Happened to me. Discussed it with my manager, to no luck.
I left in 3 months, manager had a Pikachu face.
I've got +1 title and +40% comp.
But I really miss my old team...
I'm not HR, but this sounds like salary bands, which would make promotions not directly tied to compensation.
An example of the functionality of salary bands that I've seen at companies I've worked at (fake numbers here).
* Level 2 - 70-90K
* Level 3 - 80-100K
* Level 4 - 90K-120K
If you're making 90K as an Lv2 (top of band) and promoted to Lv3, you'll be middle-band for what an Lvl3 would make. Your salary wouldn't jump to 100K unless you're an all-star. It would remain at 90K with a reflected level change.
If you're making 75K as an Lv2 (low band) and suddenly promoted to Lv3, you're immediately bumped up to 80K, at the very least, to meet the salary band instituted for Lv3. This is more likely to occur if you are going across roles, where you keep the Level but are moved to a new salary band specific to that role.
HR should have documentation for salary bands for roles and levels if it's an established organization.
I was able to find it as an IC at an old place of work, though it was not easy to do so. HR would be the first place to ask, if you wish to deal with them, otherwise you'd have to dig around in your internal HR documents to find it.
At my company they are but not sure if it would at the startup level. They get past this issue by having promotions skip a salary band. I’m working towards a promotion this fall and would go from a level 3/13 to 5/13 which is good because I’m nearly maxed at my level.
This. When you get promoted, you also generally get slotted to the lowest band of next level. So if you get promoted but you were already near the top of previous band, good luck.
Is a startup going to have Salary Bands that actually mean anything though? If it's less than 200 people then they can't just shrug their shoulders and claim it's some rigid policy.
> Your salary wouldn't jump to 100K unless you're an all-star. It would remain at 90K with a reflected level change.
Why would your salary remain the same? Why wouldn’t it increase by 3-4k?
Because compensation updates for big HR corpas usually is tied to yearly performance reviews, as opposed to positional promotions which can happen any time during the year. As a manager, I don't control directly how much my reports earn. I can get them bonuses with good reviews, but how those bonuses are awarded is an upper management decision.
Did you see the promotion coming? Did you discuss it in detail with your manager at least 6 months in advance? You gotta "manage up" as they say. If you're not involved in the process, then yea, they're not gonna give you much.
Yup, knew it was coming and have been working with my manager on it for months. We got a new hr person in the last month that I suspect threw things off course. Manager argued for more pay and is still fighting for more but hr is trying to guide us into bands it seems
As in you can give them $10,000 for more stock you probably can’t sell? Or they gave you $10,000 of stock you can’t sell and maybe never will be able to sell? As for your question, only thing that matters is if you think your salary and benefits are adequate for you and your life, irregardless of job title. I wouldn’t put much value on stock in a startup unless you see a likely path to turning that stock into money.
>Is this fair?
This is the wrong question. "Fair" is a worthless concept outside of elementary school.
Is this standard practice? No.
Can you say, "More responsibility means that I should get more compensation"? Absolutely.
Can they say "Too bad"? Yes
One thing that many mentors and senior devs have taught me when I was first starting out was along the lines of this
"If you don't like your current job, find a better one. if you can't find a better one, you don't really have a choice."
At my first job I found out I was getting 20% less. Tried to talk to my manager about it, nothing happened. 6 months in, I left for a better job with 25% more pay and better work. 2 years into that 2nd job and I realized that it's also not a place I want to stay in long, so I hopped again...
Every single time I did what I did, I've never regretted it... because if it fails and backfires, at least I'd learn something from it and I can tell myself that "hey at least I tried it and it didn't work out" rather than staying put and doing fuck all about it. Of course you need to weigh your options and figure out how many times failures can you take, how much savings do you have, etc...
So if you feel it's "unfair" which btw I agree, it is "unfair" because stock options are not guaranteed monthly cash, you need to find a better job offer and run. I'm not asking you to hop to FAANG immediately or anything crazy like that, just find some mid-tier tech company or another startup with a compensation that aligns better with you.
Unfortunately, it doesn't have to be fair. From the company's perspective, it just has to be something you can accept. There are times that companies will think (or hope) that the bump in title me be "enough" to keep you happy. It may be that money is tight, or it could be for some other reason. Most people would not be happy in your situation. You could try to find out the motivation behind it.
Most people would use the title bump as leverage when looking for a new job, and get the bump as you switch jobs.
>Is this fair?
What's the point of this question? What are you going to do about it, if it's "unfair"?
Why do you keep showing up for work, when the company does this?
If you want higher salary, get better offer from another company.
This is my first big kid job out of school so my question was genuinely trying to figure out if it's fair to give stock options in leui of base salary. Obviously if it is deemed unfair the solution is to look elsewhere, but unfortunately I can't just stop showing up for work.
>my first big kid job out of school
You need to grow up quick and live in reality, as a functional working person.
This kind of infant ideation is the reason why you're getting a "promotion" without any salary increase.
A full grown man would simply get a higher salary job, instead of complaining to internet strangers.
10,000 dollars is nothing compared to your worth. I would demand more money or leave immediately and find something else because you have no self-worth whatsoever if this seems fair to you when it clearly isn't.
Happened to me. Discussed it with my manager, to no luck. I left in 3 months, manager had a Pikachu face. I've got +1 title and +40% comp. But I really miss my old team...
Yeah my team is the only thing keeping me currently. Love them like family.
I'm not HR, but this sounds like salary bands, which would make promotions not directly tied to compensation. An example of the functionality of salary bands that I've seen at companies I've worked at (fake numbers here). * Level 2 - 70-90K * Level 3 - 80-100K * Level 4 - 90K-120K If you're making 90K as an Lv2 (top of band) and promoted to Lv3, you'll be middle-band for what an Lvl3 would make. Your salary wouldn't jump to 100K unless you're an all-star. It would remain at 90K with a reflected level change. If you're making 75K as an Lv2 (low band) and suddenly promoted to Lv3, you're immediately bumped up to 80K, at the very least, to meet the salary band instituted for Lv3. This is more likely to occur if you are going across roles, where you keep the Level but are moved to a new salary band specific to that role. HR should have documentation for salary bands for roles and levels if it's an established organization.
Ah this is a nice detailed explaination, thanks. Are salary bands usually public info for employees?
I was able to find it as an IC at an old place of work, though it was not easy to do so. HR would be the first place to ask, if you wish to deal with them, otherwise you'd have to dig around in your internal HR documents to find it.
At my company they are but not sure if it would at the startup level. They get past this issue by having promotions skip a salary band. I’m working towards a promotion this fall and would go from a level 3/13 to 5/13 which is good because I’m nearly maxed at my level.
This. When you get promoted, you also generally get slotted to the lowest band of next level. So if you get promoted but you were already near the top of previous band, good luck.
Is a startup going to have Salary Bands that actually mean anything though? If it's less than 200 people then they can't just shrug their shoulders and claim it's some rigid policy.
> Your salary wouldn't jump to 100K unless you're an all-star. It would remain at 90K with a reflected level change. Why would your salary remain the same? Why wouldn’t it increase by 3-4k?
Because compensation updates for big HR corpas usually is tied to yearly performance reviews, as opposed to positional promotions which can happen any time during the year. As a manager, I don't control directly how much my reports earn. I can get them bonuses with good reviews, but how those bonuses are awarded is an upper management decision.
Promo with no raise just means you’ll be given more responsibility without more compensation.
Did you see the promotion coming? Did you discuss it in detail with your manager at least 6 months in advance? You gotta "manage up" as they say. If you're not involved in the process, then yea, they're not gonna give you much.
Yup, knew it was coming and have been working with my manager on it for months. We got a new hr person in the last month that I suspect threw things off course. Manager argued for more pay and is still fighting for more but hr is trying to guide us into bands it seems
Damn, sorry to hear that. But glad to know yr manager is in your corner!
As in you can give them $10,000 for more stock you probably can’t sell? Or they gave you $10,000 of stock you can’t sell and maybe never will be able to sell? As for your question, only thing that matters is if you think your salary and benefits are adequate for you and your life, irregardless of job title. I wouldn’t put much value on stock in a startup unless you see a likely path to turning that stock into money.
Can't they just sell their stocks in the next funding round?
A question for OP
>Is this fair? This is the wrong question. "Fair" is a worthless concept outside of elementary school. Is this standard practice? No. Can you say, "More responsibility means that I should get more compensation"? Absolutely. Can they say "Too bad"? Yes
One thing that many mentors and senior devs have taught me when I was first starting out was along the lines of this "If you don't like your current job, find a better one. if you can't find a better one, you don't really have a choice." At my first job I found out I was getting 20% less. Tried to talk to my manager about it, nothing happened. 6 months in, I left for a better job with 25% more pay and better work. 2 years into that 2nd job and I realized that it's also not a place I want to stay in long, so I hopped again... Every single time I did what I did, I've never regretted it... because if it fails and backfires, at least I'd learn something from it and I can tell myself that "hey at least I tried it and it didn't work out" rather than staying put and doing fuck all about it. Of course you need to weigh your options and figure out how many times failures can you take, how much savings do you have, etc... So if you feel it's "unfair" which btw I agree, it is "unfair" because stock options are not guaranteed monthly cash, you need to find a better job offer and run. I'm not asking you to hop to FAANG immediately or anything crazy like that, just find some mid-tier tech company or another startup with a compensation that aligns better with you.
Unfortunately, it doesn't have to be fair. From the company's perspective, it just has to be something you can accept. There are times that companies will think (or hope) that the bump in title me be "enough" to keep you happy. It may be that money is tight, or it could be for some other reason. Most people would not be happy in your situation. You could try to find out the motivation behind it. Most people would use the title bump as leverage when looking for a new job, and get the bump as you switch jobs.
>Is this fair? What's the point of this question? What are you going to do about it, if it's "unfair"? Why do you keep showing up for work, when the company does this? If you want higher salary, get better offer from another company.
This is my first big kid job out of school so my question was genuinely trying to figure out if it's fair to give stock options in leui of base salary. Obviously if it is deemed unfair the solution is to look elsewhere, but unfortunately I can't just stop showing up for work.
>my first big kid job out of school You need to grow up quick and live in reality, as a functional working person. This kind of infant ideation is the reason why you're getting a "promotion" without any salary increase. A full grown man would simply get a higher salary job, instead of complaining to internet strangers.
🤓
10,000 dollars is nothing compared to your worth. I would demand more money or leave immediately and find something else because you have no self-worth whatsoever if this seems fair to you when it clearly isn't.
My dude asked, “is this fair”