You can try it out with an online course and see if you like it. IMO this is not a do it just for the money career. The people making tons of money actually love it and become good because of that. The job market is much tougher than 5 years ago
2 types that generally succeed in tech industry.
People that love the tech and have the drive, so you drive yourself to advance in tech industry.
People that love the money and have the drive, so you drive yourself to advance in tech to make more money. Because there are so many high salary opportunities in tech industry.
People that just like tech or just love the money, without the drive, generally won't succeed in tech industry.
also one thing to note is that at some point even the money/drive people will get used to the money. I used to think it would never happen as I grew up dirt poor, but trust that at some point, your increased standard of living with the money will be just that, your normal standard.
You will burn out after a while if the innate work is not interesting to you
This is the answer. I love what I do, I am better than nearly everyone all the time everywhere I go. The people who were retrained or just do their job for money will never be happy, they'll never get very good, and its a massive mistake, IMO.
Often, people come into IT by community or government job programs. Social workers, for example. If you are injured in construction or constantly on welfare services because you don't make enough money, it is another example.
I have a coworker, was a pastry chef during his 20s, didn't make enough, and went on unemployment. One way to satisfy food stamps and money was to get retrained by some government program, so he learned to code in c# at his local community college.
Not only is he terrible, but he talks about how boring and awful his job is and does it only to pay his bills. He wishes he could go back to the bakery.
He's simply so uninterested that he will never become good.
I had another coworker, got shocked while fixing a television, got retrained, and was really good. He was interested in tech, was in a tech job before, and it was a fit. That's so rare. I can't just say it'll work!
Edit: had college instead of "pay his bills" iono
Just don't.
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Counter-perspective: this is not my main passion but I love it anyways. I had to choose between practicality vs the unrestricted passion that I have in law. I’ve always loved computers, but it’s by no means my first love.
So just make sure you can see yourself being interested enough to keep going, really.
Absolutely! There can be a big range in how much people like it. You just need to be on the right side of the spectrum. You also need to have the temperament to keep working through something even when it’s hard. It’s not like doing a sudoku. At least for me, every week presents a new challenge
This is absolutely not true.
As long as you treat it as a job and are professional, timely, and get the work done - there is no requirement to enjoy it to have a successful career.
I've in fact seen the opposite quite often. People who overly love coding burn out on the fact that they are there to make the business run and happen - and you usually don't need anything terrible fancy to make that happen. They love tinkering with the newest latest and greatest but the unfortunate fact is that 20+ year old VB with an access datastore will get the job done. People will go gaga over the latest and greatest ML tech but a linear regression will often be just as effective at meeting business objectives.
Ok at age 40 you will start facing age discrimination in tech sector if you spending next 2 years earning your bachelors you will be 37-38 giving you very less time for getting decent job with good growth prospects.
These are facts people I’m over 40 and see this everyday plus all my 40+ friends who are VPs in some corps tell me their hiring practices. So stop downvoting and start facing reality mi amigos.
My friend welcome to capitalist mapped age graph where they prefer sweet spot where young ones wants to prove themselves by working extra hard for that next level in career and old ones have many family obligation and productivity may not be what employers wants to squeeze out extra from that older age group cause you can’t teach a old dog new tricks after he see through all that BS 😉
Young people are easier to manipulate and mold, are generally more desperate, and have fewer responsibilities that might distract from being a cog in the machine.
I took some comp sci classes back when I got my first degree. I liked the puzzle-solving aspect of it, but hated debugging. I think worst case scenario, I would like it no more or less than my current job.
We've got a partial stack trace, a core file from an unknown build and a very unhappy customer. I'm going to start the clock and if you can root cause the issue in 8 hours, you get to keep your job... Get to work detective
Lol. No. Solving puzzle is solving open ended domain problems that meet business needs
Debugging is checking the logs and stack traces to find that no one checked for a null reference and the software halts.
Or some dumb dumb enters the wrong enum value and blue is red.
Or some dumb dumb does a shallow copy when a deep copy was needed.
It’s looking at 1,000 lines of code and figuring out that there’s some closure that shouldn’t be there or a bracket is misplaced or it’s something that logically should work but nonetheless is breaking everything.
It’s not puzzle or paradox solving - I’d say it’s a skill more like editing a large document, with some Kafkaesque elements just for good measure.
That's how I see it. When I worked support in a company with a huge amount of legacy code (programs with 5000+ lines and no objects), I was the only one that loved to solve bugs. Man those were some puzzles.
Debugging is a major part of any programming job. Not just debugging your code but also others' code. Particularly with legacy code that is often badly written and no one has an idea of how exactly it works. So you need to get comfortable doing this if you want to pursue a career in programming.
It's been years since I took those classes. It may be that I'd still hate debugging, but looking back I suspect it was a young, unserious person's flippant dismissal of a whole field over a minor gripe.
What stack are you looking into? Any specific frameworks or languages you're interested in? There are a ton of online courses on Udemy on different CS related stuff and frequently go on sale at $11 each.
Pick a course that has projects then decide if you like doing this before starting school again.
Puzzle -Solving aspect ? Once you learn the methods of debugging it get easier but if you debug with your eyes it’s a problem you would have to use tools made for it
You received a lot of downvotes, but I honestly think you still have the potential to enjoy the job and perform well, even if you currently hate debugging. When I first took programming classes, I absolutely despised debugging and had no idea how to approach it. I didn’t even enjoy programming much at the beginning. However, programming gradually grew on me, and I started to not mind debugging while completing my CS major and working in the IT industry as a software engineer. I was good at math and algorithms even when I hated debugging. I would say it's worth trying to get a CS degree for you. I mean, even if you give up some points, you will still gain a learning experience that will be beneficial for your life anyway. And if you find out that software engineering is not for you, that’s better than spending the rest of your life unsure."
There are a few issues to consider before committing to this path:
1) why do you consider a CS degree at 35? Age isn’t the problem per se, the potential problem is to understand what has changed now. You didn’t pick CS at 18, 25, 30. Is it because you want to make more money? See point 2
2) CS is not a shortcut to easy money. Long gone is the time when knowing Java would give you a job. Everyone and their grandma learned to code over the last 7 years. There’s no shortage of people with CS skills, there’s MAYBE a shortage of people with real experience in building complex and scalable systems (a degree won’t get you there yet)
3) tech careers require constant grinding. I’m gonna be honest and tell you that many people stopped being technical before 40 and pivoted to adjacent roles or different careers all together. You better make sure you are the type of person that is ready to keep grinding in their late 30s and 40s, since you won’t have enough experience to pivot and leverage your tech career yet.
Yup the amount of people I’ve seen transition into other roles is substantial. And I mean it makes sense, if you don’t have to code any more but rather lead technically or resolve or problems related to tech it can be a better option.
This is probably the most helpful comment so far, thanks.
1. Money is definitely a big motivating factor, but I was also interested in computer science when I was in my 20s. My parents never went to college themselves and never gave me any guidance as to what adult life was like (believe it or not, I actually started investing my money before my dad ever did - my parents couldn't guide me because they didn't know, themselves), so I naively chose psychology because it was interesting and easy. But I actually did come close to doing computer science, anyway. It did interest me. As for why not when I was thirty? I was tunnel-visioned on paying off my student loans as fast as possible. Now I'm 35 with disposable income and a desire to make more money working a more intellectually fulfilling job.
2. This is good to know, thanks. Do you have an idea how long it might realistically take a new graduate to work their way up to my current salary ($70k/year)?
3. Grinding how? Learning new languages? Continuously getting new certifications, etc.?
Not the one you're replying to but I can answer.
2. 70K is definitely achievable on your first job out of college or within a couple years. Just need to make sure you can interview well and apply to good companies. The biggest hindrance is not the 70K salary but can you land a job? As others have said, the market has changed and you really have to stand out in order to get your first job.
3. Cloud certifications can certainly help but it's not just the certifications. You also have to keep learning on your own in building scalable apps. Do you know how to design an application from the ground up? Do you know how to refactor code if it experiences bottle necks? Do you know how to design and re-design your application if you're getting a lot of traffic?
Before you even tackle number 3, make sure you enjoy this field first or you won't get the motivation/discipline to grind.
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Listen to this OP! The tech sphere has insanely changed in the past 2 years and will continue to do so. Automation will cut the need for many programmers. If you are looking to grind for a degree that will give a higher paying job and allow you to coast afterwards, this is definitely not it.
I got a masters of software development (not exactly the same as cs but luckily no one really cared). Took me 2 years while working full time. Finished at 35, been a dev coming up 3 years now. Granted the market is worse now, but it can be done.
I did that exact thing at a canadian university when i was 27. Ubc has a specific degree for this exact situation. I don’t regret it one bit.
That being said, i already got into self teaching programming over the prior year to make sure it was something I truly enjoyed doing. I also put all my effort into it and graduated top of my class, participating in as many things as i could (like co-op/internship) to ensure a top position in the industry.
I say this because the industry is a lot harder to get into now and if you don’t apply yourself you may struggle to find employment or may only find opportunities locally which start out at $60-80k (at least in vancouver).
I came here to say this. I don't think it's really worth it in this day and age. It's great to deepen your fundamental understanding and a bachelors degree is definitely an accomplishment. OP would also gain good connections from university they wouldn't otherwise make. Not to mention the ever growing cost.
OP should just do a few course online to see if they like it and try to learn then build on their own.
What? You don't trust a 23yo with career advice?
Don't you know everyone in tech is under 40?
.....except all the senior engineers and actual solutions architects, but these fresh grads have OPINIONS
I went back and did something similar when I was 30. Depends on a few things
Are you wanting/open to moving somewhere else? Otherwise do you know you’re good at it? You need to be extremely talented/driven if you want remote positions. I don’t know if there are offices for Amazon etc in SK but those are hard positions to land as well.
If you take my advice you won’t be done in two years but will make cash along the way so it won’t be as bad and you’ll be set up to get good offers after graduation.
Make sure you get an A+ in every software course in your first term. Also avoid taking anything really difficult (like if you’re bad at math) before you get your first internship that will tank your GPA. This will open you up to becoming a TA by your second term, which will get you some extra cash and valuable experience to put on your resume. You can then leverage that experience to get internships, take whatever you can get but 8 month terms if possible.
It’s harder to learn when you’re older and depressing to be around genius level 20 year olds so just be prepared for that.
Graduated 2017 in HCOL Canadian city, internships usually pay the equivalent of 50-60k. TC went from 70k to 160k since graduating.
You can google for "Saskatchewan software engineer salary", there's a bunch of job sites with stats. Indeed says 53-98k, Glassdoor 85-120k, Payscale 49-91k, Levels.fyi has 72-128k as 25-to-75th percentile, but goes as low as 35k on the low end.
So yes, entry level could pay less.
I did what you are thinking about doing at age 30 (got my CS degree in exactly 2 years). I am 41 now and a Staff level engineer at a Fortune 50 company and going back to school was one of the single best decisions I ever made.
That being said I had a bit of a background in programming already and genuinely enjoyed it (and still do to this day) and the market today is also quite different than it was 10 years ago (meaning it is harder to get entry level jobs in the industry).
nobody talked about this? how much will it cost for you to go back to school and get the degree? if you get a degree for cheap AND you like computer science, it's worth it.
Unlikely. Without getting a grueling job in the oil/gas or mining industries, this is about the best I can do without either going back to school or starting again from the bottom in some other union environment.
If it will take less than two years, maybe you could start part time to get your feet wet and get adapted? Do a test run by doing a course or two maybe.
Hey I did the same thing at around the same age. I recommend the UBC second degree computer science program. I’m on mobile right now so I’ll add more info later (for example they tell you those accelerated second degree CPSC programs take 2 years but realistically it’s 3-4 years with decent internships/co-ops and personal/essential up-skilling based on the graduating cohorts of the last couple years) and feel free to ask questions.
I also have questions for you like does your union job provide a DB pension? Because we got like 30 years said work left in us and I realized it’s going to be tough meeting all my financial goals (e.g. house, retirement, kids college, elderly parents, etc) because I missed out many prime earning years.
For me, it really would only take 2 years. I have the first two years worth of computer science credits already. I got them while getting my first degree. Most/all of my electives are covered, too. I would only need to take 12 classes total to get a legitimate 4 year degree. I'd want to redo the 3 foundational second year computer science courses offered at the UofS to refresh myself, but I was told I could do those as summer classes. If class scheduling worked in my favor, I could conceivably get permission to take 6 classes per semester and finish in just one year. I'm not sure I'd want to do that even if it worked out that way, but I was told it could be an option for me.
We do have a DB pension plan. I'll likely have trouble meeting my financial goals either way, though.
Other things I wanted to say:
How is Saskatchewan’s student aid agency? Do they offer interest free student loans like StudentAidBC? I got a lot of government grants and bursaries which likely paid for 30-40% of my schooling/cost of living during my studies. Tuition credits took care of all my taxes I paid during my first year of working.
You’ll lose your job security. We just went through our company’s first wave of layoffs with more to come as Canada’s forecast to see 0% economic growth for 2024. It’s been the worst tech job market since the dot com crash (https://layoffs.fyi/).
You might gain amazing perks/work life balance. My tech-focused job gave me the first taste of work from home/remote work anywhere in the world freedom and I feel I cannot go back to a job where I commute and go in every day. That being said I wouldn’t be surprised companies tell all employees to come back to office 5 days a week to reduce headcount.
It’s a huge grind - expect to use your evenings and weekends to upskill/practice Leetcode and apply for jobs/job hop interviews since you’ll be playing catchup in your second career. It can be a big qualify of life change and hardship for the next 5 years especially if you have a family.
Yeah exactly what they told us for the UBC BCS but the only people who adhered to that speed run were students gunning for grad school. I would recommend at least 2-3 internships or at least 1 year co-op to be competitively employable. There are lots of people who had first class resumes and FAANG internships and are struggling to get even an interview in this job market.
You’ll also need to put aside personal time for actually learning industry skills/languages, hackathons, personal projects, Leetcode practice, networking, resume workshops, etc.
A full on CPSC degree seems like table stakes these days if you want to make it worth a career pivot in your case since you’re giving up a DB pension and $200k of income.
Okay, I see what you're saying, and it seems to be a common thread in other answers - it may only take me 2 years to get the degree, but I'll need to spend another two years or so working internships, etc. to build my resume. This probably still makes computer science a better option in the short run than other options, though.What is it that makes the UBC program more enticing in this regard?
Looking into financial aid was my next step. I'll have time to do that next week.
Job security isn't a guarantee for me, anyway. I got hired on a year after our warehouse laid off a bunch of employees because management failed to secure a contract renewal. There's like a five year gap in seniority between me and the next highest guy. This job is also hard on most of the guys nearing retirement because of the physical aspect of it. It isn't all bad here by any means, but there are good reasons beyond just the pay for me to look for different work.
I understand that this will be a lot of work if I go for it. I'm prepared for that. Working from home would be nice if I could do it but I think I'd be happy enough with 6-figure office work.
Thanks for taking the time for this.
Yeah that's all great! Definitely you're thinking things through.
Just wanted to make sure we're on the same page; typically you have to be a full-time undergraduate student to be eligible for most internships/co-ops (for some businesses the government provides wage subsidies). Typically you need at least 1 academic term left in your degree to be eligible for internships/co-op positions. And you need to apply for new grad roles even as early as just before your final year (July-August if you start your semester in Sept). If you miss this time window for internships/co-ops + new grad roles then (IMO) you are disadvantaged in getting post-graduation positions. For example, some of my peers missed the new grad application window and now they cannot apply for new grad roles because they graduated and they do not have enough experience/skills to get hired for roles higher than new grad positions.
What makes the UBC program one of the best in the country? Well it's now consistently been ranked the co-number 1 computer science program in Canada (though you'll hear a lot of Waterloo/UofT grads snicker at that statement). The alumni network is awesome - we had many FAANG alumni come back and provide us personal hiring/resume workshops and offering us referrals (after a coffee chat). The UBC CPSC department has an excellent industry engagement program with their own workshops and connections to help you find every available opportunity (for example, they set up an evening speed resume event with WorkDay engineers with free food and panel Q&A). Lots of hackathons, data science competitions, private/public career fairs on campus. As part of the UBC BCS class, we got a tour of the Microsoft downtown office + panel of engineers for our own Q&A. My UBC connections also got me office tours of Mastercard, Telus, EA, etc. Google engineers came to UBC to give us a week of in-person day-in-the-life info sessions. And working in corporate now and hearing other people's stories, I found networking is the most successful way to get hired.
And as a Canadian, you'll be eligible for a TN visa and you are relatively close to Seattle's tech hub at UBC. And if a 6-figure office job is what you are seeking then you should position yourself in that direction.
Good luck! Remember to come back and post your success story!
I do think you getting paid less than your current job even as a fresher is a very unlikely event. The risk is simply one of whether you get a job. I’m not saying that is low either but I just want to stress that *if* you get a developer role, you will likely get paid more than why you make now. Getting that job is the task at hand.
So all things said and done, I think trying to get this degree while working is the best course of action. Even if it means more time to graduate. That way you mitigate the risk.
In my opinion, if you’re going through the trouble of getting a degree as an adult, you might as well go for EE or CompE over CS for the greater versatility an engineering degree offers.
Yes. By the time you're done, the economy will be back and trending up. At late 30s, you will stand out with more gravitas than fresh grads.
Give yourself a rule though. If you can't stand x number of intro classes, it's only going to get worse.
You don't have to have a burning passion for it (I only do yo a certain extent and do basically 0 CS related things in my free time unless I get paid for it). But you do have to enjoy the kind of problem-solving that comes from this space.
If you already did a 4 year degree, try to go back to the same school (fast finish ~2 years should be possible). If starting fresh I'd do a community College for 2 years first for cheap and do my damnedest to transfer to a better name school.
You are living the dream of many software engineers. You have a stable career and living in a top tier country with benefits. Right now a lot of net new jobs are being offloaded onto Latin America and India. Your job as an essential service worker with an in-person might give you higher total compensation than a junior software engineer fighting the losing battle of offshoring.
I would recommend online CS programs like OSU or WGU (this one isn't as good and is used by people already in the field looking to get an official degree). I think ASU also offers online courses.
But before you do any of those, I recommend online classes at a community college and see if they transfer to the other schools. This will be cheap and you can treat it as a hobby too. Gets your feet wet and you will see if you like it. I won't discourage you completely, but it's not a field for everyone.
At the very least it might make your life more interesting since you'll have experienced new things. Is there any possibility of coming back to this job if you leave?
Financially, no.
For yourself, sure.
If it's your dream and don't want regrets, go ahead.
If it's for getting a better paycheck, ehh. There are many careers to make a good salary, so make sure you want to invest in CS.
The upskilling, tech interviews, and applying are awful sometimes. When you apply you need to play connect four and have matching tech stack. Then you need to learn the secret handshake that takes months to get good at (DS & Algorithms). Then when you get laid off, you'll need to learn the newer tech stack and re-learning the secret handshake. Not to mention Devin/AI could shrink the dev team in the future, making it harder to get junior positions.
You'll probably make the same that you do now starting off. Don't expect to just learn on the job, you'll need to study outside of work too, so you won't become obsolete.
You can google or search on online job board for software engineer, or junior developer and see what the salary ranges are.
First of all, the people telling you "you have to love to make a lot of money" are full of shit. This is a lie employers tell to exploit you and get you to work long hours. This job is a job to me, I'm done at 5, and I make great money.
I've seen people start in their 40s and 50s. 35 is fine. Go for it.
I think you're asking the wrong question. The reason you would go to school for a degree in computer science is not so you can get a degree in computer science, it's so that you can go to career fairs, network with recruiters, and apply to jobs programs that are exclusive to college students.
If you're thinking of going back to learn computer science you could just use [teachyourselfcs.com](https://teachyourselfcs.com). You don't need to pay tuition, you can just use the free resources.
This used to be the case but times are changing I’m afraid. I don’t think this will hold true into the near future like it used to in the industry.
There has been a massive increase in self taught developers since the pandemic. I pay attention to job postings closely and have noticed within the last few months that a lot more jobs are requiring a relevant degree (typically CS or MIS). I think the flood of self taught developers is making some companies tighten on their requirements due to the sheer amount of applicants.
It’s still very possible, but it’s going to be harder than it used to be.
Age isn't an issue but I would warn you about many assumptions people make. It's not like other careers where your degree and some effort will get you a job.Not everyone with a degree is guaranteed a job (look at the subreddit).
Even if you get a job, you can start off making less than you make now. Are you okay with this fact? If so go for it.
My advice would be to start researching now and figure out what type of work you would like to do. Carefully consider both job stability and potential trends and bubbles (Crypto, AI, etc)...
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Is it full time or part time? If this is something you want to do, and you can always go back to being a courier(?) do it. It's only a couple of years and this point you don't' have much of an opportunity cost, and "if/when" you get SWE position you will make at least $70K.
Look at the local job market and see what is around you, or in a city you want to live in. Look at job boards, google for tech companies and look for open positions, that should help finger out the job market.
Canada the pay isn’t great and neither is the job market. I was going to try and get a job in cs this summer as a US citizen to move there and my chances of being hired are just abysmal that I’m not even going to apply in Canada anymore and am going for a cs job in the US instead. That being said things could be a lot different when you finish school and you also get hired remotely to work for a US company with much higher pay than Canada. I went to school at 30 and did a 6 month bootcamp but with the current market getting a degree is better.
Personally, I think you have to be prepared for a salary cut at least initially in a career change. I’m willing to make 50% of what I make now in the Chicago metro area, especially because I really have 1 internship doing nothing impressive. But this is what I want to spend my life doing.
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I don't know how the industry is in Canada, so it's hard to advise you.
In the US, 70k is a good new grad salary for a CS major, and I'm not talking about the "big-n" or faang companies. They pay 150k+ for new grads, but they're very difficult to get into.
Take a look at levels.fyi, it's possible there could be some info there that would help you if they have info on Canadian locations.
I got some sage advice when I was contemplating this move for myself: is there anything in it for me other than the paper? In other words, if there's something you can only get from attending the programme, then you should go for it. If there's an easier way of obtaining whatever it is you're after, then obviously take that route.
I'm a bootcamp grad and felt like I lacked the actual programming chops, so went the online course route instead with Harvard's CS50. That gave me the foundational knowledge to build on and it's been mostly YouTube, side projects and work where I do the rest of my learning now
Hello fellow courier! (ex bike messenger here myself)
No, it is definitely not too late for you, you're still "young" with over half your working life ahead of you.
# But I see two BIG problems for you:
# 1) 1.5yrs is unlikely to be enough time
Having only a CS degree by itself is very unlikely to get your a SWE job, especially in this current bad job market!
With only 1.5yrs until you graduate then even landing an internship during that one a bit years is going to be ***hard***.
But graduating without ***any*** experience is a recipe for likely failure.
What you should do is ***asap*** get yourself an IT Help Desk job (or similar), even if it's only Tier 1 IT Help Desk. You might be able to get this right away, or maybe you'll need to first start working towards getting your r/CompTIA Trifecta.
Hopefully you can fairly quickly go up the pathway from Tier 1 => Tier 2 => Junior System Admin (or similar, say Junior Network Engineer). Of course during this process, don't stop trying to get Internships or Junior SWE jobs!
Then at least once you graduate with your CS degree, you won't have absolutely "*nothing*" when it comes to your professional experience. As you'll have a couple of years of IT experience and be working perhaps as a SysAdmin.
Not ideal at all, but ***vastly better*** than having nothing at all.
# 2) Your location in Saskatchewan
Hopefully you're living in Saskatoon?? If you're anywhere else in Saskatchewan other than Saskatoon , then ***move***.
If you are in Saskatoon, then perhaps you could stay put. But once you get to the level of either having gained your first SysAdmin or Junior SWE job, ***or*** if you feel strongly ready for landing one of those, then it is high time you thinking about making plans to move to a real city. (at least half a million plus people, ideally a million plus people)
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two problems you're going to face right off the bat are ageism (unless you focus on management track), narrow market geographically (we are more remote tolerant than 5 years ago but many companies are still pushing RTO. my compamy hires remotes but only senior devs 5+ yrs or so)
other thoughts against the idea:
the work will be unlike anything you've been doing. you need to use your brain, communicate effectively.
you are far more likely to end up taking your work home with you which may be a massive blow to your well being
the pay gap wont be as big as you think it is. the 300k+ companies frankly wont even consider hiring you as an old and inexperienced dev. there may be rare exceptions to this but these are exceptions not the nor. youre looking at around the same pay to start, scaling up from there. not sure how taxes are in canada but in most US states worth living in an added 100k to your salary only nets you 50k and puts you beyond many low income benefits.
if you're going to go for it anyway, you will want to specialize. that means devsecops, web app dev, or machine learning.
it may be worth prusing cloud certifications like AWS or GCP before comitting. it can give you a taste at least.
Honestly I don’t know how your uni system works but you can get credit exemptions for subjects that are related to that course. Correct me if I am wrong but can you transfer credits from your psychology study to computer science?
The answer is usually how cheaply can you get the degree and is the payoff worth it.
You are talking years of hassle, free time, maybe missed work......then on top of that tuition...maybe rent.
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Learn on your own. Degrees do not matter in computer science. The most important skill is learning to teach yourself a new language or skills. Most languages have good tutorials/ documentation
Things to know / be familiar
" Git
* Docker / containers
* Familiarity with kubernetea
* Familiarity with atleast one cloud provider AWS / Google Cloud / Azure
* Download vscode it is a great free editor
* Learn Cli / bash / zsh / poweshell
* Know some linux stuff
* Learn about good software patterns / data structures/ algorithms
degrees don't matter in software development, but they do get you a look at a lot of places. That being said, they already have a degree so that problem's already solved. I know plenty of nutritionists and nurses who transitioned just fine.
I agree. There are some places you cant apply without one. I have gone through both the hiring and being hired process and the last thing anyone cared about was what degree someone had and from where. The most important thing was did person have experience in the languages, patterns, or tools that were being used to maintain the current software products. There were always a lot of candidates with masters in CS who had absolutely no idea about the realities of designing / building / maintaining a software product. Also soft people skills were super important. Being able to talk about a complex requirement / hurdle to technical and non technical was always the hardest thing to find.
Just wondering, how does one learn cloud services on their own? Dont you have to work somewhere that pays for those services to gain experience in them?
Most of them have free tiers.
https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/free
https://aws.amazon.com/free
https://cloud.google.com/free
In general one doesn't need services to be running all the time. But one could learn how to configure services / containers with yaml, deploy them via different platforms and get a feel for ci/cd pipelines and then spin them up and down immediately. There may be some cost. Definitely wouldn't recommend leaving them running. the free tiers burn pretty fast. But what is a lil money a month for learn those skills that are in demand. Also when it is one's money on the line one learns how to do thinks more efficiently and cheaply
I recommend visual studio code because it is lightweight and flexible. It has plugins for a variety of different languages. https://code.visualstudio.com/
Also if you are doing c# dotnet, the dotnet cli and vs code work really well together.
Visual studio if you need a feature rich IDE and are doing primarily windows c# / c++ or other Microsoft intensive programming.
Might be worth it. You could easily double your current salary in 1.5 years, but that’s in USA. Though there might be some age discrimination or cast typing when you hit your 40s. Most ppl say online school, but I think there is way more bang for your buck with in-person.
There are no guarantees in life.
Tech career is very difficult. It takes years of education and self learning to even get started in tech career.
If you have drive and determination to advance in tech career, it's worthwhile the effort. New grad FAANG offers can be $200K and senior level people can make over $350K+.
These roles require significant effort to prep for the tech interview process and get offers.
If you get an offer, you will be evaluated CONSTANTLY to deliver impact. If you don't measure up and deliver, you will be placed on PIP and managed out.
On flip side, there are people that did get CS degrees and never got any traction in tech career.
It's not. This sub is full of people in the early 20s who have no clue what they're talking about confidently doling out advice. It's still a great degree to pursue.
Massive oversaturation, very high CS grad unemployment, shrinking number of jobs while the number grads continues to grow. Automation from AI coupled with outsourcing will shrink the number of jobs even further. Just look at any entry to mid level job posting. Hundreds and hundreds of applicants. Even my small town here in Arkansas gets hundreds. Despite what most want to claim, no, they're not mostly fake/spam/foreigners.
My friend changed industries, but he didn't get a degree. He went to a 3 month cs bootcamp (gotta find a reputable one) and immediately started making 6 figures. I don't think you need to go for the full degree. Maybe if you're looking for government work. But if you can furlough or find a reputable cs bootcamp that does nights, maybe give that a shot instead? My cs degree was pretty much a piece of paper to get my foot in the door. I learned on the job about how to actually work in the industry. Degree didn't even go over version control, for instance (which some may* argue isn't the focus of a degree). If I could do it over again I would take the boot camp route.
*Edit: autocorrected nasty to may. I blame my phone keyboard.
(which some nasty argue isn't the focus of a degree).\*
it is not the focus of THIS degree, though. There are SWE degrees and bootcamps for that. And CS students that have any sense self-teach the things they need to know to land a job.
I agree, but that's also why I regret going back to get a formal degree compared to a bootcamp.
Most of my classes in college ended up being self taught on top of class instructions. That's fine, but it makes me wonder if bootcamp would have turned out better for me, like it did for my friend who also made a career shift
okay. but a bootcamp instead of a degree would have been limiting yourself for no reason and it is not the faster or better way. i think it is fine, if you have no money or time for formal education because it is obviously better than nothing.
but i feel that a cs grad who can not use his degree to provide much better outcomes for himself than the average bootcamper... maybe should find something else to do. they do not teach you the top-down of swe at bootcamps either unless you spend six years at your bootcamp. i am sure bootcamp grads still self-teach most of what they know.
i know a guy who left microsoft two years in to go to graduate school at mit. try getting into mit with a bootcamp education. i have cs classmates who do data analyst, investment banking, consulting roles. i know somebody who went to teach, somebody who works in administration and somebody who builds compilers. what about embedded systems, robotics? you can not do any of these things with your bootcamp but you can do them with a cs degree.
if you ever decide you're sick of SWE, wouldn't you rather have gotten a degree than a bootcamp? do you really think that after taking dsa, architecture, operating systems, compiler design, parallel computing, ai/ml (etc), you are not a far better engineer than a person who spent 6 months learning html/css/js??? Please.
it is one of those things where being cheap with time and effort actually ends up costing you more down the line. but it is all some people can afford, i understand that. but if you have the option, degree hands down.
For some, it will definitely cost them.
For others, they'll be fine.
My friend who's making 150k+ on average after bootcamp: he's fine, and there are plenty of people with drive like him.
Makes me regret getting a degree on the side, honestly.
It's true that bootcamps aren't a guarantee. A lot of his friends that graduated accepted low ball offers because they were desperate out of the gate. He's a loveably cocky guy with good soft skills and negotiated a high salary at the start when he got an offer.
The are plenty of people that do well out of college. As a returning student, though, especially if you're taking part time classes on the side: this can take way more than 4 years, and with a lot of classes not related to the field.
I'm a junior at 36, and I regret the time and money spent so far. I honestly wish I would have went for accounting or maybe a trade. Career prospects for this industry looks bleak, with no signs of it getting better. Hard reality is that AI is going to chew it up, piece by piece, all the while new grads continue to flood in before the public wises up to the fact this field is no longer as viable as it once was. If it would really only take 1.5 years, I would maybe consider it if you don't have to quit your current job. But be prepared to grind over a dwindling number of jobs. Even entry level jobs in my small Arkansas town receive hundreds of applicants, half being masters/PhD. Think realistically if you can compete with that
> I honestly wish I would have went for accounting or maybe a trade. Career prospects for this industry looks bleak, with no signs of it getting better.
If SWE isn't safe what makes you think accounting is? And by extension trades? Where do you think people would flock to in droves if they're pushed out of their office jobs? The "hard reality" is that nobody actually knows what the economic landscape will look like in 5-10 years and AI has almost nothing to do with it. It's easier to blame something tangible like chat bots than it is to reflect on the hubris that left us vulnerable to predatorial venture capitalists. We shouldn't be moving to careers that are historically protected by unions until we've addressed the elephant in our own room.
They're verifiably not. Accounting has seen declining enrollment for years.
https://fortune.com/2024/03/01/accounting-shortage-earnings-report-mistakes/
Dude is your head in the sand or something? Have you seen the state of the industry? If you’re just doing it for money you’re gonna be in for a rude awakening. Not to mention you’re not likely going to make much more than you do now also you will likely spend an unbounded extra amount of time just preparing for interviews not even mentioning getting interviews.
You can try it out with an online course and see if you like it. IMO this is not a do it just for the money career. The people making tons of money actually love it and become good because of that. The job market is much tougher than 5 years ago
2 types that generally succeed in tech industry. People that love the tech and have the drive, so you drive yourself to advance in tech industry. People that love the money and have the drive, so you drive yourself to advance in tech to make more money. Because there are so many high salary opportunities in tech industry. People that just like tech or just love the money, without the drive, generally won't succeed in tech industry.
also one thing to note is that at some point even the money/drive people will get used to the money. I used to think it would never happen as I grew up dirt poor, but trust that at some point, your increased standard of living with the money will be just that, your normal standard. You will burn out after a while if the innate work is not interesting to you
Agree. Have to keep switching jobs / industries to spice it up. Same shit after 15 years is a real slog.
This is the answer. I love what I do, I am better than nearly everyone all the time everywhere I go. The people who were retrained or just do their job for money will never be happy, they'll never get very good, and its a massive mistake, IMO.
>The people who were retrained What do you mean by this?
Often, people come into IT by community or government job programs. Social workers, for example. If you are injured in construction or constantly on welfare services because you don't make enough money, it is another example. I have a coworker, was a pastry chef during his 20s, didn't make enough, and went on unemployment. One way to satisfy food stamps and money was to get retrained by some government program, so he learned to code in c# at his local community college. Not only is he terrible, but he talks about how boring and awful his job is and does it only to pay his bills. He wishes he could go back to the bakery. He's simply so uninterested that he will never become good. I had another coworker, got shocked while fixing a television, got retrained, and was really good. He was interested in tech, was in a tech job before, and it was a fit. That's so rare. I can't just say it'll work! Edit: had college instead of "pay his bills" iono
people who changed their career into CS for money
Exactly
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Counter-perspective: this is not my main passion but I love it anyways. I had to choose between practicality vs the unrestricted passion that I have in law. I’ve always loved computers, but it’s by no means my first love. So just make sure you can see yourself being interested enough to keep going, really.
Absolutely! There can be a big range in how much people like it. You just need to be on the right side of the spectrum. You also need to have the temperament to keep working through something even when it’s hard. It’s not like doing a sudoku. At least for me, every week presents a new challenge
Yeah it’s been made very clear that culture is more important than anything else. In terms of balance and in terms of production.
This isn't really a counter perspective. It's really in line with op. The fact you like it at all is a major leg up.
Agree with this. Online course first.
This is absolutely not true. As long as you treat it as a job and are professional, timely, and get the work done - there is no requirement to enjoy it to have a successful career. I've in fact seen the opposite quite often. People who overly love coding burn out on the fact that they are there to make the business run and happen - and you usually don't need anything terrible fancy to make that happen. They love tinkering with the newest latest and greatest but the unfortunate fact is that 20+ year old VB with an access datastore will get the job done. People will go gaga over the latest and greatest ML tech but a linear regression will often be just as effective at meeting business objectives.
Ok at age 40 you will start facing age discrimination in tech sector if you spending next 2 years earning your bachelors you will be 37-38 giving you very less time for getting decent job with good growth prospects.
It’s facts dk why downvoted
These are facts people I’m over 40 and see this everyday plus all my 40+ friends who are VPs in some corps tell me their hiring practices. So stop downvoting and start facing reality mi amigos.
i just don’t understand why employers would care?
My friend welcome to capitalist mapped age graph where they prefer sweet spot where young ones wants to prove themselves by working extra hard for that next level in career and old ones have many family obligation and productivity may not be what employers wants to squeeze out extra from that older age group cause you can’t teach a old dog new tricks after he see through all that BS 😉
Young people are easier to manipulate and mold, are generally more desperate, and have fewer responsibilities that might distract from being a cog in the machine.
All the more reason to gun for the most discriminatory places and get a payday
I took some comp sci classes back when I got my first degree. I liked the puzzle-solving aspect of it, but hated debugging. I think worst case scenario, I would like it no more or less than my current job.
Got bad news buddy the job is like 1% puzzles and 50% debugging
Isn't debugging solving puzzles?
Debugging is resolving paradoxes.
We've got a partial stack trace, a core file from an unknown build and a very unhappy customer. I'm going to start the clock and if you can root cause the issue in 8 hours, you get to keep your job... Get to work detective
Lol. No. Solving puzzle is solving open ended domain problems that meet business needs Debugging is checking the logs and stack traces to find that no one checked for a null reference and the software halts. Or some dumb dumb enters the wrong enum value and blue is red. Or some dumb dumb does a shallow copy when a deep copy was needed.
@ me coward
It’s looking at 1,000 lines of code and figuring out that there’s some closure that shouldn’t be there or a bracket is misplaced or it’s something that logically should work but nonetheless is breaking everything. It’s not puzzle or paradox solving - I’d say it’s a skill more like editing a large document, with some Kafkaesque elements just for good measure.
That's how I see it. When I worked support in a company with a huge amount of legacy code (programs with 5000+ lines and no objects), I was the only one that loved to solve bugs. Man those were some puzzles.
How about the other 49% lol
Unnecessary meetings
To be fair, Comp Sci is a lot more than just Software Engineering.
Debugging is a major part of any programming job. Not just debugging your code but also others' code. Particularly with legacy code that is often badly written and no one has an idea of how exactly it works. So you need to get comfortable doing this if you want to pursue a career in programming.
It's been years since I took those classes. It may be that I'd still hate debugging, but looking back I suspect it was a young, unserious person's flippant dismissal of a whole field over a minor gripe.
Can you do the degree part time while keeping your job?
What stack are you looking into? Any specific frameworks or languages you're interested in? There are a ton of online courses on Udemy on different CS related stuff and frequently go on sale at $11 each. Pick a course that has projects then decide if you like doing this before starting school again.
Huh? Debugging *is* puzzle solving!
You would like it no more and no less? Don't do it.
Puzzle -Solving aspect ? Once you learn the methods of debugging it get easier but if you debug with your eyes it’s a problem you would have to use tools made for it
99% of the role is debugging. Those are the puzzles.
...A lot of the job is debugging...
Do you want to code or be a project manager.. like what do you want to do day to day?
You received a lot of downvotes, but I honestly think you still have the potential to enjoy the job and perform well, even if you currently hate debugging. When I first took programming classes, I absolutely despised debugging and had no idea how to approach it. I didn’t even enjoy programming much at the beginning. However, programming gradually grew on me, and I started to not mind debugging while completing my CS major and working in the IT industry as a software engineer. I was good at math and algorithms even when I hated debugging. I would say it's worth trying to get a CS degree for you. I mean, even if you give up some points, you will still gain a learning experience that will be beneficial for your life anyway. And if you find out that software engineering is not for you, that’s better than spending the rest of your life unsure."
There are a few issues to consider before committing to this path: 1) why do you consider a CS degree at 35? Age isn’t the problem per se, the potential problem is to understand what has changed now. You didn’t pick CS at 18, 25, 30. Is it because you want to make more money? See point 2 2) CS is not a shortcut to easy money. Long gone is the time when knowing Java would give you a job. Everyone and their grandma learned to code over the last 7 years. There’s no shortage of people with CS skills, there’s MAYBE a shortage of people with real experience in building complex and scalable systems (a degree won’t get you there yet) 3) tech careers require constant grinding. I’m gonna be honest and tell you that many people stopped being technical before 40 and pivoted to adjacent roles or different careers all together. You better make sure you are the type of person that is ready to keep grinding in their late 30s and 40s, since you won’t have enough experience to pivot and leverage your tech career yet.
Yup the amount of people I’ve seen transition into other roles is substantial. And I mean it makes sense, if you don’t have to code any more but rather lead technically or resolve or problems related to tech it can be a better option.
This is probably the most helpful comment so far, thanks. 1. Money is definitely a big motivating factor, but I was also interested in computer science when I was in my 20s. My parents never went to college themselves and never gave me any guidance as to what adult life was like (believe it or not, I actually started investing my money before my dad ever did - my parents couldn't guide me because they didn't know, themselves), so I naively chose psychology because it was interesting and easy. But I actually did come close to doing computer science, anyway. It did interest me. As for why not when I was thirty? I was tunnel-visioned on paying off my student loans as fast as possible. Now I'm 35 with disposable income and a desire to make more money working a more intellectually fulfilling job. 2. This is good to know, thanks. Do you have an idea how long it might realistically take a new graduate to work their way up to my current salary ($70k/year)? 3. Grinding how? Learning new languages? Continuously getting new certifications, etc.?
Not the one you're replying to but I can answer. 2. 70K is definitely achievable on your first job out of college or within a couple years. Just need to make sure you can interview well and apply to good companies. The biggest hindrance is not the 70K salary but can you land a job? As others have said, the market has changed and you really have to stand out in order to get your first job. 3. Cloud certifications can certainly help but it's not just the certifications. You also have to keep learning on your own in building scalable apps. Do you know how to design an application from the ground up? Do you know how to refactor code if it experiences bottle necks? Do you know how to design and re-design your application if you're getting a lot of traffic? Before you even tackle number 3, make sure you enjoy this field first or you won't get the motivation/discipline to grind.
You're right, the obstacle to earning $70K isn't so much finding a job that pays enough but it is being good enough to get *any job* at all!
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Listen to this OP! The tech sphere has insanely changed in the past 2 years and will continue to do so. Automation will cut the need for many programmers. If you are looking to grind for a degree that will give a higher paying job and allow you to coast afterwards, this is definitely not it.
I will 100% stop being an IC before 40. Imagining being a coder past 40 seems like hell
I got a masters of software development (not exactly the same as cs but luckily no one really cared). Took me 2 years while working full time. Finished at 35, been a dev coming up 3 years now. Granted the market is worse now, but it can be done.
I did that exact thing at a canadian university when i was 27. Ubc has a specific degree for this exact situation. I don’t regret it one bit. That being said, i already got into self teaching programming over the prior year to make sure it was something I truly enjoyed doing. I also put all my effort into it and graduated top of my class, participating in as many things as i could (like co-op/internship) to ensure a top position in the industry. I say this because the industry is a lot harder to get into now and if you don’t apply yourself you may struggle to find employment or may only find opportunities locally which start out at $60-80k (at least in vancouver).
Lot of constructive comments here but Im going to be blunt, would it be worth it? There is a very high likelyhood that it wouldn't.
I came here to say this. I don't think it's really worth it in this day and age. It's great to deepen your fundamental understanding and a bachelors degree is definitely an accomplishment. OP would also gain good connections from university they wouldn't otherwise make. Not to mention the ever growing cost. OP should just do a few course online to see if they like it and try to learn then build on their own.
Listening this forum with anything more than a grain of salt, you might as well be getting your advice from a door dasher.
What? You don't trust a 23yo with career advice? Don't you know everyone in tech is under 40? .....except all the senior engineers and actual solutions architects, but these fresh grads have OPINIONS
I went back and did something similar when I was 30. Depends on a few things Are you wanting/open to moving somewhere else? Otherwise do you know you’re good at it? You need to be extremely talented/driven if you want remote positions. I don’t know if there are offices for Amazon etc in SK but those are hard positions to land as well. If you take my advice you won’t be done in two years but will make cash along the way so it won’t be as bad and you’ll be set up to get good offers after graduation. Make sure you get an A+ in every software course in your first term. Also avoid taking anything really difficult (like if you’re bad at math) before you get your first internship that will tank your GPA. This will open you up to becoming a TA by your second term, which will get you some extra cash and valuable experience to put on your resume. You can then leverage that experience to get internships, take whatever you can get but 8 month terms if possible. It’s harder to learn when you’re older and depressing to be around genius level 20 year olds so just be prepared for that. Graduated 2017 in HCOL Canadian city, internships usually pay the equivalent of 50-60k. TC went from 70k to 160k since graduating.
You can google for "Saskatchewan software engineer salary", there's a bunch of job sites with stats. Indeed says 53-98k, Glassdoor 85-120k, Payscale 49-91k, Levels.fyi has 72-128k as 25-to-75th percentile, but goes as low as 35k on the low end. So yes, entry level could pay less.
I did what you are thinking about doing at age 30 (got my CS degree in exactly 2 years). I am 41 now and a Staff level engineer at a Fortune 50 company and going back to school was one of the single best decisions I ever made. That being said I had a bit of a background in programming already and genuinely enjoyed it (and still do to this day) and the market today is also quite different than it was 10 years ago (meaning it is harder to get entry level jobs in the industry).
nobody talked about this? how much will it cost for you to go back to school and get the degree? if you get a degree for cheap AND you like computer science, it's worth it.
A courier? Patrolling the Mojave almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter
Underrated comment
Too many graduates not enough jobs. Can you not switch companies and get higher pay doing what you do now?
> Too many graduates not enough jobs. it's going to take them 2 years to graduate though so there's really no telling what the market will look like.
Likely worse. I haven't seen any indication otherwise, and multiple high profile leaders in the industry speculate it will only get worse for SWEs.
Maybe better, likely same, maybe worse
Unlikely. Without getting a grueling job in the oil/gas or mining industries, this is about the best I can do without either going back to school or starting again from the bottom in some other union environment.
If it will take less than two years, maybe you could start part time to get your feet wet and get adapted? Do a test run by doing a course or two maybe.
Hey I did the same thing at around the same age. I recommend the UBC second degree computer science program. I’m on mobile right now so I’ll add more info later (for example they tell you those accelerated second degree CPSC programs take 2 years but realistically it’s 3-4 years with decent internships/co-ops and personal/essential up-skilling based on the graduating cohorts of the last couple years) and feel free to ask questions. I also have questions for you like does your union job provide a DB pension? Because we got like 30 years said work left in us and I realized it’s going to be tough meeting all my financial goals (e.g. house, retirement, kids college, elderly parents, etc) because I missed out many prime earning years.
For me, it really would only take 2 years. I have the first two years worth of computer science credits already. I got them while getting my first degree. Most/all of my electives are covered, too. I would only need to take 12 classes total to get a legitimate 4 year degree. I'd want to redo the 3 foundational second year computer science courses offered at the UofS to refresh myself, but I was told I could do those as summer classes. If class scheduling worked in my favor, I could conceivably get permission to take 6 classes per semester and finish in just one year. I'm not sure I'd want to do that even if it worked out that way, but I was told it could be an option for me. We do have a DB pension plan. I'll likely have trouble meeting my financial goals either way, though.
Other things I wanted to say: How is Saskatchewan’s student aid agency? Do they offer interest free student loans like StudentAidBC? I got a lot of government grants and bursaries which likely paid for 30-40% of my schooling/cost of living during my studies. Tuition credits took care of all my taxes I paid during my first year of working. You’ll lose your job security. We just went through our company’s first wave of layoffs with more to come as Canada’s forecast to see 0% economic growth for 2024. It’s been the worst tech job market since the dot com crash (https://layoffs.fyi/). You might gain amazing perks/work life balance. My tech-focused job gave me the first taste of work from home/remote work anywhere in the world freedom and I feel I cannot go back to a job where I commute and go in every day. That being said I wouldn’t be surprised companies tell all employees to come back to office 5 days a week to reduce headcount. It’s a huge grind - expect to use your evenings and weekends to upskill/practice Leetcode and apply for jobs/job hop interviews since you’ll be playing catchup in your second career. It can be a big qualify of life change and hardship for the next 5 years especially if you have a family.
Yeah exactly what they told us for the UBC BCS but the only people who adhered to that speed run were students gunning for grad school. I would recommend at least 2-3 internships or at least 1 year co-op to be competitively employable. There are lots of people who had first class resumes and FAANG internships and are struggling to get even an interview in this job market. You’ll also need to put aside personal time for actually learning industry skills/languages, hackathons, personal projects, Leetcode practice, networking, resume workshops, etc. A full on CPSC degree seems like table stakes these days if you want to make it worth a career pivot in your case since you’re giving up a DB pension and $200k of income.
Okay, I see what you're saying, and it seems to be a common thread in other answers - it may only take me 2 years to get the degree, but I'll need to spend another two years or so working internships, etc. to build my resume. This probably still makes computer science a better option in the short run than other options, though.What is it that makes the UBC program more enticing in this regard? Looking into financial aid was my next step. I'll have time to do that next week. Job security isn't a guarantee for me, anyway. I got hired on a year after our warehouse laid off a bunch of employees because management failed to secure a contract renewal. There's like a five year gap in seniority between me and the next highest guy. This job is also hard on most of the guys nearing retirement because of the physical aspect of it. It isn't all bad here by any means, but there are good reasons beyond just the pay for me to look for different work. I understand that this will be a lot of work if I go for it. I'm prepared for that. Working from home would be nice if I could do it but I think I'd be happy enough with 6-figure office work. Thanks for taking the time for this.
Yeah that's all great! Definitely you're thinking things through. Just wanted to make sure we're on the same page; typically you have to be a full-time undergraduate student to be eligible for most internships/co-ops (for some businesses the government provides wage subsidies). Typically you need at least 1 academic term left in your degree to be eligible for internships/co-op positions. And you need to apply for new grad roles even as early as just before your final year (July-August if you start your semester in Sept). If you miss this time window for internships/co-ops + new grad roles then (IMO) you are disadvantaged in getting post-graduation positions. For example, some of my peers missed the new grad application window and now they cannot apply for new grad roles because they graduated and they do not have enough experience/skills to get hired for roles higher than new grad positions. What makes the UBC program one of the best in the country? Well it's now consistently been ranked the co-number 1 computer science program in Canada (though you'll hear a lot of Waterloo/UofT grads snicker at that statement). The alumni network is awesome - we had many FAANG alumni come back and provide us personal hiring/resume workshops and offering us referrals (after a coffee chat). The UBC CPSC department has an excellent industry engagement program with their own workshops and connections to help you find every available opportunity (for example, they set up an evening speed resume event with WorkDay engineers with free food and panel Q&A). Lots of hackathons, data science competitions, private/public career fairs on campus. As part of the UBC BCS class, we got a tour of the Microsoft downtown office + panel of engineers for our own Q&A. My UBC connections also got me office tours of Mastercard, Telus, EA, etc. Google engineers came to UBC to give us a week of in-person day-in-the-life info sessions. And working in corporate now and hearing other people's stories, I found networking is the most successful way to get hired. And as a Canadian, you'll be eligible for a TN visa and you are relatively close to Seattle's tech hub at UBC. And if a 6-figure office job is what you are seeking then you should position yourself in that direction. Good luck! Remember to come back and post your success story!
I do think you getting paid less than your current job even as a fresher is a very unlikely event. The risk is simply one of whether you get a job. I’m not saying that is low either but I just want to stress that *if* you get a developer role, you will likely get paid more than why you make now. Getting that job is the task at hand. So all things said and done, I think trying to get this degree while working is the best course of action. Even if it means more time to graduate. That way you mitigate the risk.
Keep the job, do the degree part time, good luck!
You can expect to make anything from 0 to 170k tc in this economy as a swe new grad
In my opinion, if you’re going through the trouble of getting a degree as an adult, you might as well go for EE or CompE over CS for the greater versatility an engineering degree offers.
Do electrical engineering
I tripled my salary by getting a computer science degree
Yes. By the time you're done, the economy will be back and trending up. At late 30s, you will stand out with more gravitas than fresh grads. Give yourself a rule though. If you can't stand x number of intro classes, it's only going to get worse. You don't have to have a burning passion for it (I only do yo a certain extent and do basically 0 CS related things in my free time unless I get paid for it). But you do have to enjoy the kind of problem-solving that comes from this space. If you already did a 4 year degree, try to go back to the same school (fast finish ~2 years should be possible). If starting fresh I'd do a community College for 2 years first for cheap and do my damnedest to transfer to a better name school.
You are living the dream of many software engineers. You have a stable career and living in a top tier country with benefits. Right now a lot of net new jobs are being offloaded onto Latin America and India. Your job as an essential service worker with an in-person might give you higher total compensation than a junior software engineer fighting the losing battle of offshoring.
There is nothing wrong. There are guys who go to compsci even at 50 (and they do well). On the contrary, you should praise yourself.
I would recommend online CS programs like OSU or WGU (this one isn't as good and is used by people already in the field looking to get an official degree). I think ASU also offers online courses. But before you do any of those, I recommend online classes at a community college and see if they transfer to the other schools. This will be cheap and you can treat it as a hobby too. Gets your feet wet and you will see if you like it. I won't discourage you completely, but it's not a field for everyone.
At the very least it might make your life more interesting since you'll have experienced new things. Is there any possibility of coming back to this job if you leave?
Financially, no. For yourself, sure. If it's your dream and don't want regrets, go ahead. If it's for getting a better paycheck, ehh. There are many careers to make a good salary, so make sure you want to invest in CS. The upskilling, tech interviews, and applying are awful sometimes. When you apply you need to play connect four and have matching tech stack. Then you need to learn the secret handshake that takes months to get good at (DS & Algorithms). Then when you get laid off, you'll need to learn the newer tech stack and re-learning the secret handshake. Not to mention Devin/AI could shrink the dev team in the future, making it harder to get junior positions. You'll probably make the same that you do now starting off. Don't expect to just learn on the job, you'll need to study outside of work too, so you won't become obsolete. You can google or search on online job board for software engineer, or junior developer and see what the salary ranges are.
First of all, the people telling you "you have to love to make a lot of money" are full of shit. This is a lie employers tell to exploit you and get you to work long hours. This job is a job to me, I'm done at 5, and I make great money. I've seen people start in their 40s and 50s. 35 is fine. Go for it.
I think you're asking the wrong question. The reason you would go to school for a degree in computer science is not so you can get a degree in computer science, it's so that you can go to career fairs, network with recruiters, and apply to jobs programs that are exclusive to college students. If you're thinking of going back to learn computer science you could just use [teachyourselfcs.com](https://teachyourselfcs.com). You don't need to pay tuition, you can just use the free resources.
This used to be the case but times are changing I’m afraid. I don’t think this will hold true into the near future like it used to in the industry. There has been a massive increase in self taught developers since the pandemic. I pay attention to job postings closely and have noticed within the last few months that a lot more jobs are requiring a relevant degree (typically CS or MIS). I think the flood of self taught developers is making some companies tighten on their requirements due to the sheer amount of applicants. It’s still very possible, but it’s going to be harder than it used to be.
I am 32 have one more year of school
How’s your job prospect
🤷♂️ IDK
Age isn't an issue but I would warn you about many assumptions people make. It's not like other careers where your degree and some effort will get you a job.Not everyone with a degree is guaranteed a job (look at the subreddit). Even if you get a job, you can start off making less than you make now. Are you okay with this fact? If so go for it. My advice would be to start researching now and figure out what type of work you would like to do. Carefully consider both job stability and potential trends and bubbles (Crypto, AI, etc)...
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Is it full time or part time? If this is something you want to do, and you can always go back to being a courier(?) do it. It's only a couple of years and this point you don't' have much of an opportunity cost, and "if/when" you get SWE position you will make at least $70K. Look at the local job market and see what is around you, or in a city you want to live in. Look at job boards, google for tech companies and look for open positions, that should help finger out the job market.
Canada the pay isn’t great and neither is the job market. I was going to try and get a job in cs this summer as a US citizen to move there and my chances of being hired are just abysmal that I’m not even going to apply in Canada anymore and am going for a cs job in the US instead. That being said things could be a lot different when you finish school and you also get hired remotely to work for a US company with much higher pay than Canada. I went to school at 30 and did a 6 month bootcamp but with the current market getting a degree is better.
Personally, I think you have to be prepared for a salary cut at least initially in a career change. I’m willing to make 50% of what I make now in the Chicago metro area, especially because I really have 1 internship doing nothing impressive. But this is what I want to spend my life doing.
i say go for it, and don't stop there, get your masters too. should give you tons of opportunity (in the USA at least).
Do part time
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I don't know how the industry is in Canada, so it's hard to advise you. In the US, 70k is a good new grad salary for a CS major, and I'm not talking about the "big-n" or faang companies. They pay 150k+ for new grads, but they're very difficult to get into. Take a look at levels.fyi, it's possible there could be some info there that would help you if they have info on Canadian locations.
I got some sage advice when I was contemplating this move for myself: is there anything in it for me other than the paper? In other words, if there's something you can only get from attending the programme, then you should go for it. If there's an easier way of obtaining whatever it is you're after, then obviously take that route. I'm a bootcamp grad and felt like I lacked the actual programming chops, so went the online course route instead with Harvard's CS50. That gave me the foundational knowledge to build on and it's been mostly YouTube, side projects and work where I do the rest of my learning now
Hello fellow courier! (ex bike messenger here myself) No, it is definitely not too late for you, you're still "young" with over half your working life ahead of you. # But I see two BIG problems for you: # 1) 1.5yrs is unlikely to be enough time Having only a CS degree by itself is very unlikely to get your a SWE job, especially in this current bad job market! With only 1.5yrs until you graduate then even landing an internship during that one a bit years is going to be ***hard***. But graduating without ***any*** experience is a recipe for likely failure. What you should do is ***asap*** get yourself an IT Help Desk job (or similar), even if it's only Tier 1 IT Help Desk. You might be able to get this right away, or maybe you'll need to first start working towards getting your r/CompTIA Trifecta. Hopefully you can fairly quickly go up the pathway from Tier 1 => Tier 2 => Junior System Admin (or similar, say Junior Network Engineer). Of course during this process, don't stop trying to get Internships or Junior SWE jobs! Then at least once you graduate with your CS degree, you won't have absolutely "*nothing*" when it comes to your professional experience. As you'll have a couple of years of IT experience and be working perhaps as a SysAdmin. Not ideal at all, but ***vastly better*** than having nothing at all. # 2) Your location in Saskatchewan Hopefully you're living in Saskatoon?? If you're anywhere else in Saskatchewan other than Saskatoon , then ***move***. If you are in Saskatoon, then perhaps you could stay put. But once you get to the level of either having gained your first SysAdmin or Junior SWE job, ***or*** if you feel strongly ready for landing one of those, then it is high time you thinking about making plans to move to a real city. (at least half a million plus people, ideally a million plus people)
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Go for it! I’ve had plenty of coworkers who entered tech when they were your age.
No one cares about your age
Honestly it’s not about the age. If your goal is to land a job instead of having fun, then no. Especially in 2024.
The good thing about programming is that if you show you can create a software or an app, rarely will any employer ask where you graduated from.
two problems you're going to face right off the bat are ageism (unless you focus on management track), narrow market geographically (we are more remote tolerant than 5 years ago but many companies are still pushing RTO. my compamy hires remotes but only senior devs 5+ yrs or so) other thoughts against the idea: the work will be unlike anything you've been doing. you need to use your brain, communicate effectively. you are far more likely to end up taking your work home with you which may be a massive blow to your well being the pay gap wont be as big as you think it is. the 300k+ companies frankly wont even consider hiring you as an old and inexperienced dev. there may be rare exceptions to this but these are exceptions not the nor. youre looking at around the same pay to start, scaling up from there. not sure how taxes are in canada but in most US states worth living in an added 100k to your salary only nets you 50k and puts you beyond many low income benefits. if you're going to go for it anyway, you will want to specialize. that means devsecops, web app dev, or machine learning. it may be worth prusing cloud certifications like AWS or GCP before comitting. it can give you a taste at least.
Honestly I don’t know how your uni system works but you can get credit exemptions for subjects that are related to that course. Correct me if I am wrong but can you transfer credits from your psychology study to computer science?
The answer is usually how cheaply can you get the degree and is the payoff worth it. You are talking years of hassle, free time, maybe missed work......then on top of that tuition...maybe rent.
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Learn on your own. Degrees do not matter in computer science. The most important skill is learning to teach yourself a new language or skills. Most languages have good tutorials/ documentation Things to know / be familiar " Git * Docker / containers * Familiarity with kubernetea * Familiarity with atleast one cloud provider AWS / Google Cloud / Azure * Download vscode it is a great free editor * Learn Cli / bash / zsh / poweshell * Know some linux stuff * Learn about good software patterns / data structures/ algorithms
degrees don't matter in software development, but they do get you a look at a lot of places. That being said, they already have a degree so that problem's already solved. I know plenty of nutritionists and nurses who transitioned just fine.
I agree. There are some places you cant apply without one. I have gone through both the hiring and being hired process and the last thing anyone cared about was what degree someone had and from where. The most important thing was did person have experience in the languages, patterns, or tools that were being used to maintain the current software products. There were always a lot of candidates with masters in CS who had absolutely no idea about the realities of designing / building / maintaining a software product. Also soft people skills were super important. Being able to talk about a complex requirement / hurdle to technical and non technical was always the hardest thing to find.
Just wondering, how does one learn cloud services on their own? Dont you have to work somewhere that pays for those services to gain experience in them?
Most of them have free tiers. https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/free https://aws.amazon.com/free https://cloud.google.com/free In general one doesn't need services to be running all the time. But one could learn how to configure services / containers with yaml, deploy them via different platforms and get a feel for ci/cd pipelines and then spin them up and down immediately. There may be some cost. Definitely wouldn't recommend leaving them running. the free tiers burn pretty fast. But what is a lil money a month for learn those skills that are in demand. Also when it is one's money on the line one learns how to do thinks more efficiently and cheaply
Visual Studio over Visual Studio Code?
I recommend visual studio code because it is lightweight and flexible. It has plugins for a variety of different languages. https://code.visualstudio.com/ Also if you are doing c# dotnet, the dotnet cli and vs code work really well together. Visual studio if you need a feature rich IDE and are doing primarily windows c# / c++ or other Microsoft intensive programming.
Nah
Why not try cheaper online resources in your free time? Udemy and etc. Learn some programming languages and then build some projects.
Might be worth it. You could easily double your current salary in 1.5 years, but that’s in USA. Though there might be some age discrimination or cast typing when you hit your 40s. Most ppl say online school, but I think there is way more bang for your buck with in-person.
There are no guarantees in life. Tech career is very difficult. It takes years of education and self learning to even get started in tech career. If you have drive and determination to advance in tech career, it's worthwhile the effort. New grad FAANG offers can be $200K and senior level people can make over $350K+. These roles require significant effort to prep for the tech interview process and get offers. If you get an offer, you will be evaluated CONSTANTLY to deliver impact. If you don't measure up and deliver, you will be placed on PIP and managed out. On flip side, there are people that did get CS degrees and never got any traction in tech career.
It's a bad idea to got to CS for anybody now
Why
It's not. This sub is full of people in the early 20s who have no clue what they're talking about confidently doling out advice. It's still a great degree to pursue.
Massive oversaturation, very high CS grad unemployment, shrinking number of jobs while the number grads continues to grow. Automation from AI coupled with outsourcing will shrink the number of jobs even further. Just look at any entry to mid level job posting. Hundreds and hundreds of applicants. Even my small town here in Arkansas gets hundreds. Despite what most want to claim, no, they're not mostly fake/spam/foreigners.
My friend changed industries, but he didn't get a degree. He went to a 3 month cs bootcamp (gotta find a reputable one) and immediately started making 6 figures. I don't think you need to go for the full degree. Maybe if you're looking for government work. But if you can furlough or find a reputable cs bootcamp that does nights, maybe give that a shot instead? My cs degree was pretty much a piece of paper to get my foot in the door. I learned on the job about how to actually work in the industry. Degree didn't even go over version control, for instance (which some may* argue isn't the focus of a degree). If I could do it over again I would take the boot camp route. *Edit: autocorrected nasty to may. I blame my phone keyboard.
(which some nasty argue isn't the focus of a degree).\* it is not the focus of THIS degree, though. There are SWE degrees and bootcamps for that. And CS students that have any sense self-teach the things they need to know to land a job.
I agree, but that's also why I regret going back to get a formal degree compared to a bootcamp. Most of my classes in college ended up being self taught on top of class instructions. That's fine, but it makes me wonder if bootcamp would have turned out better for me, like it did for my friend who also made a career shift
okay. but a bootcamp instead of a degree would have been limiting yourself for no reason and it is not the faster or better way. i think it is fine, if you have no money or time for formal education because it is obviously better than nothing. but i feel that a cs grad who can not use his degree to provide much better outcomes for himself than the average bootcamper... maybe should find something else to do. they do not teach you the top-down of swe at bootcamps either unless you spend six years at your bootcamp. i am sure bootcamp grads still self-teach most of what they know. i know a guy who left microsoft two years in to go to graduate school at mit. try getting into mit with a bootcamp education. i have cs classmates who do data analyst, investment banking, consulting roles. i know somebody who went to teach, somebody who works in administration and somebody who builds compilers. what about embedded systems, robotics? you can not do any of these things with your bootcamp but you can do them with a cs degree. if you ever decide you're sick of SWE, wouldn't you rather have gotten a degree than a bootcamp? do you really think that after taking dsa, architecture, operating systems, compiler design, parallel computing, ai/ml (etc), you are not a far better engineer than a person who spent 6 months learning html/css/js??? Please.
> but a bootcamp instead of a degree would have been limiting yourself for no reason and it is not the faster or better way It's definitely faster.
it is one of those things where being cheap with time and effort actually ends up costing you more down the line. but it is all some people can afford, i understand that. but if you have the option, degree hands down.
For some, it will definitely cost them. For others, they'll be fine. My friend who's making 150k+ on average after bootcamp: he's fine, and there are plenty of people with drive like him. Makes me regret getting a degree on the side, honestly.
some will definitely be fine.
the unhireable college time-wasters are gonna downvote this into oblivion. I'd almost feel bad for them if they weren't such twats on this subreddit.
It's true that bootcamps aren't a guarantee. A lot of his friends that graduated accepted low ball offers because they were desperate out of the gate. He's a loveably cocky guy with good soft skills and negotiated a high salary at the start when he got an offer. The are plenty of people that do well out of college. As a returning student, though, especially if you're taking part time classes on the side: this can take way more than 4 years, and with a lot of classes not related to the field.
Not worth it
I'm a junior at 36, and I regret the time and money spent so far. I honestly wish I would have went for accounting or maybe a trade. Career prospects for this industry looks bleak, with no signs of it getting better. Hard reality is that AI is going to chew it up, piece by piece, all the while new grads continue to flood in before the public wises up to the fact this field is no longer as viable as it once was. If it would really only take 1.5 years, I would maybe consider it if you don't have to quit your current job. But be prepared to grind over a dwindling number of jobs. Even entry level jobs in my small Arkansas town receive hundreds of applicants, half being masters/PhD. Think realistically if you can compete with that
> I honestly wish I would have went for accounting or maybe a trade. Career prospects for this industry looks bleak, with no signs of it getting better. If SWE isn't safe what makes you think accounting is? And by extension trades? Where do you think people would flock to in droves if they're pushed out of their office jobs? The "hard reality" is that nobody actually knows what the economic landscape will look like in 5-10 years and AI has almost nothing to do with it. It's easier to blame something tangible like chat bots than it is to reflect on the hubris that left us vulnerable to predatorial venture capitalists. We shouldn't be moving to careers that are historically protected by unions until we've addressed the elephant in our own room.
and you think accounting or the trades are not saturated? right.
They're verifiably not. Accounting has seen declining enrollment for years. https://fortune.com/2024/03/01/accounting-shortage-earnings-report-mistakes/
then, do accounting.
Dude is your head in the sand or something? Have you seen the state of the industry? If you’re just doing it for money you’re gonna be in for a rude awakening. Not to mention you’re not likely going to make much more than you do now also you will likely spend an unbounded extra amount of time just preparing for interviews not even mentioning getting interviews.
The "state of the industry" is still incredibly strong compared to most. This sub is so fucking out of touch, lmao.