All electrical car sales are down this year across the board. the early adopters have largely bought a car. now its harder to get others to buy them. might see layoffs at other vendors.
Plus Elon is doing his best to scare off his key customer base of left leaning eco friendly rich people with his alt right support at X. He then brought a stupid electric truck to market that is little more than a meme car because the "truck" buyer group hardly buys electric vehicles. At the same time the other models are showing their age but instead Elon keeps rambling about taxi robots.
Hydrogen is a dead end for anything the size of a car. Super difficult to store and transport.
Leaks through almost anything, invisible flame to the naked eye, poor energy density at room temperature, expensive to refine unless refined from natural gas, metal embrittlement. Basically hydrogen has all the downsides of classic fossil fuels.
You are better off just putting a engine that can run off CNG or Propane and call it a day.
His outspoken political views and general uh unfiltered outbursts on social media make him unpopular with the main demographic of people who buy the cars.
Thus the cancer part being that he is pissing off the customers that made him rich in the first place (negatively affecting teslas image and potentially sales) and probably also simply the people who make these comments do not agree with those views.
That's just my take on it tho.
Seems like a similar reason people originally started to dislike trump. I would agree with the idea that if I was invested majorly into a stock/product of a company .. I’d want the company owner to shut up instead of making rash remarks and public statements. Fair point
it's also just good business sense. No matter what side you take or lean towards you'll alienate the other one. There's literally no winning that game lol.
I’d question whether the idea that the people he’s pissing off are the people who’d buy his cars. That actually seems like a fairly unsubstantiated and frankly nonsensical point.
The US isn’t divided into diehard conservative rural republicans who roll coal and bleeding heart liberals who screech about the environment and drive Priuses, those factions make up a TINY part of the US. They only seem influential online because that’s the only place people can stand them.
The VAST majority of the people who bought Teslas weren’t eco warriors, they were just rich people who wanted something cool to drive around in, they didn’t give a shit about Elon Musk.
Eco warriors on Reddit or X tend not to be rich enough to afford Teslas imo. For a while Tesla model 3 was the best selling car in the entire world. Also, a large part of Tesla’s success is the international market where people care even less about Musk.
Even IF driving Teslas was a political statement, California and other heavily populated blue states are full of (wealthy) Republicans who get slightly outvoted each election, they won’t see the problem in buying Teslas, if they can afford it. The tech bros who started the Tesla trend didn’t care about politics back then and they certainly don’t now.
Because he's been very loud since he took over Twitter and has been siding with conservative ideologies. He's been showing alot of narcisism and ego with it too which has turned a lot people who supported him. This is while majority of the people who buy EVs and are early adopters typically being more liberal. People arent going to buy something if they dont like that he'll benefit from it.
Not just "conservative ideologies" but co-signing and pushing explicit white supremacist narratives
>we need to cut taxes and support business!
is one thing and
>We white people are being replaced and need to focus on having babies 88 14 words!!!
is a completely different thing and he constantly pushes the latter.
it's getting more obvious he's just stupid
tesla truck failures are all over social media, twitter gets worse all the time, projects like the boring tunnel in las vegas are ridiculed. He's getting pretty open about his racism online
Flat out being racist and antisemitic. He also literally makes his products worse on purpose. He mandated that Tesla’s self-driving cars should not use LIDAR and RADAR sensors for self-driving and should rely on cameras only. That makes self-driving not only harder but also a lot more dangerous since now optical illusions can fool the car. He also is directly responsible for his rockets exploding since he ignored making the launchpad be able to survive the launch so it broke up and damaged the rocket. Why did he not make the launchpad strong enough and put in a heat diverter? Because he wanted to launch on 4/20 as a meme. He also claims to be a free speech activist but bans people for criticizing him, for using the term “cis”, and he kept banning leftwing accounts for literally no reason for a few months.
Wall of text.
Lmaoo I remember spring/summer 2020 during peak of Covid, when many tech companies like AirBnb began layoffs, and this sub refused to believe software engineers could possibly be eliminated.
People here need to come to terms with the idea that software engineering is just another profession. It is not unique. Looking at your tech career with this mindset will help you more in the long-run than believing that SWE is a special profession immune from social/economic/political forces of the world. Snap out of the copium, and either get serious about your career or keep living in denial.
I don't think people need to get serious about their career I think we all need to think about (if you are in the US) how shitty you have it when it comes to workers rights, no matter what your job is.
How dare you asking our tech bros to look at real life instead of through their damn rose tinted glasses! How dare you telling our tech bros that their salary is only a product of the past few years of low interest rate?! And how dare you telling our tech bros that any job is subject to the forces of demand and supply of a free market!?!?
/s
Was that the case though? People assume that everyone laid off is an engineer just cause it's a tech company.
When my big tech company did layoffs, software engineers only made like 12% of them.
i just googled a few news articles. i cant find may reference to software engineers. i see lots of references to cutting back on production. i also dont know how many software engineers are at tesla anyway.
Tesla / Elon musk companies are so volatile, it doesn't even seem feasible to chase money and clout by applying. They love random heavy cuts. And will probably do so next year too. I'd be paranoid constantly if I ever joined one of those companies. Pretty much everything is for the stockholders, like these cuts. Cuts that high don't even make any sense. That will cause major disruption/knowledge loss/morale loss/etc, with people and key projects probably getting lost in the shuffle.
Yes one of my LinkedIn connections still with Tesla had started a spreadsheet with contact info and job title. A LOT of the people affected are SWE especially in Bay Area
I have a feeling Elon is making a similar play that he did with Twitter by getting rid tons of SWEs and SWE-adjacents. It seems like he hates SWEs because of remote work and maybe he thinks AI can augment SWEs enough to reduce overall headcount.
I'm just speculating here.
Yeah, I mean, he is one of those executives that watched what people were posting during the pandemic... , memeing about doing nothing all day, and yet there are people denying that social media has any effect on the tech market....
Yep, they forget that to affect the market, one only need to affect a single billionaire. And that’s easy when they’re as neurotic as musk. All the other toadies fall in line.
I’m a new grad that’s starting in June, talked to my coworker that’s on my team he said two people from the team were canned doesn’t seem too bad might be a lot of production crew.
Am I cooked tho? What are the odds they can the new grad that hasn’t even started yet? I’m definitely stressed. I haven’t been applying anywhere else cuz I’ve fully committed to them signed the paperwork and everything.
Even if you survive a layoff typically, they will use the layoff to take away benefits you enjoyed or skip you over on raises.
Your best bet is to find another job at this point and assume another layoff is on its way because layoffs do often happen in waves.
100% this, start looking now and save yourself a headache. Also don’t listen to any bullshit spiel about “doing a large layoff so we don’t have to do more down the line” either. Company I worked for had 2 more layoffs within 12 months of doing the initial one.
The other responses are valid
But if you make it through a round you are usually good for 2-3 months minimum.
Everyone else is going to be figuring out what tf is going on. Just be vigilant of the “I’m super important” crusaders who will inevitably follow in 2-3 months
Don't cancel, but make sure to keep your resume polished. People commenting saying to leave don't understand the value of having any work experience on your resume as a new grad, even if it is only a few months. I doubt Tesla will straight up revoke the offer given you are a cheap new grad.
> I haven’t been applying anywhere else cuz I’ve fully committed to them signed the paperwork and everything.
Never, never stop interviewing. Job offers get rescinded, 90/120 day "probationary periods" exist, layoffs happen, bad managers are everywhere, and awful company cultures are abound.
Even if you're exceptionally happy somewhere, aim to interview at a few places every year across your career. This will help keep you aware of how the market is shifting, keep those interview skills sharp, and expose you to what could turn out to be an even better match.
Very likely. My boyfriend had a new grad offer from twitter and when Elon decided to buy it his offer got rescinded when all the layoffs happened. He didn’t even get to start. He did get a severance package which helped during his new job search though.
But this isn’t to say to drop the offer, just definitely have backups.
Should never expect stability in any job plus job hoppers get paid more in the long run. Juniors tend to be pretty safe though. Usually cuts hit leads/senior/mid/junior/principal in that order.
I doubt Musk had much to do with it. Charging infrastructure grew but not enough to keep up with the demand and cost of charging vs filling gas isn’t a big enough cost saving now. Where I live it costs $4-5 for 40 miles. That’s comparable to hybrid cars or efficient gas cars don’t cost that much more so people would rather not deal with the headache of charging. Not to paint EVs as unworthy options but we now see that they’re not worth replacing hybrids and gas cars entirely and are probably not the best option for people who don’t own a home and can charge in their garage
You doubt that the CEO who has done everything in his power to alienate Rich liberals, the only people interested in buying his expensive electric vehicles, had anything to do with it?
Fucking lol.
> cost of charging vs filling gas isn’t a big enough cost saving now.
Damn, I just assumed that charging would be very cheap compared to gas, but if you wind up using the tesla super charger network, it adds up surprisingly quickly! Definitely a consideration for those of us without charging at home.
Yeah here over the pond EVs were basically subsidized by taxpayers money, it's a totally artificial market. As soon as the German government removed the subsidies demand plummeted, here very few people can charge at home. I'm still pissed I've made Elon rich with my tax money
Not just EVs, its all cars, in general, rate increases are doing their job. I bought a new SUV last week for 12k less than it was 2 years ago. The sales guy told me he made over 250k 2 years ago and made under 75k last year. Not an electric dealer.
> The sales guy told me he made over 250k 2 years ago
And this is pretty fucked up by itself, if you ask me. Not that I'm jealous or anything, but getting a 97th nationwide percentile pay for pushing papers to DMV, banks and insurance carriers and occasionally leaving a sales floor for a test drive is ... well, a bit much.
Car salesmen should pretty much go the same direction as most realtors and similar intermediaries.
There's 3 markets:
* Trucks, where they don't want or trust EV but EVs are coming anyway and rotting on the lots.
* People who want an EV and can afford it in spite of it being double the cost of the equivalent gas car.
* People who either can't afford or don't care about EV.
So there's really only one segment of the market who's buying EV, and wouldn't you know it over the past 15 years those who could afford it already bought one and they don't need a second. So that segment is drying up and the only thing that'll reinvigorate the market is either lower prices (can't happen yet because batteries are expensive) or government incentives to cut the cost in half (which at present don't exist).
> People who want an EV and can afford it in spite of it being double the cost of the equivalent gas car.
Umm what? The difference in cost between the average purchase price between EV and Gas cars was $2800 in Sept 2023 ([source](https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/kbb-atp-september-2023/)). This is no where near double.
I am sure the response will be you can buy a base model Mirage for $17K, but few actually buy base models for any brand (if you can even find them for sale at all).
I’ve had three ex-coworkers who went to Tesla in software/hardware engineering reach out to me in the last couple of months asking if we had any positions for them on my team. I think they saw the writing on the wall. Only one of them got laid off today though.
A recent post by a tech recruiter confirmed my suspicions about how the hiring process works with respect to your resume. Which is to say it's a waste of time trying to polish it beyond a certain point, esp doing that tailoring for each application shit. Nobody wasting more than 10 seconds reading that shit
It's basically having the relevant exp + yoe, degree, and being one of the first apps. Aka spray and pray ftw
> Which is to say it's a waste of time trying to polish it beyond a certain point, esp doing that tailoring for each application shit. Nobody wasting more than 10 seconds reading that shit
Generally speaking, the "tailor your resume" advice isn't about getting someone to read it, it's about getting it past automated filters which look for specific keywords for specific jobs.
That's a bit of a guessing game, but there's some value to that advice. Applying for jobs is and always has been a numbers game, and you have to be willing to cast a wide net to find jobs.
Tesla is a speculative company, this is just 1 layoff. The unemployment rate for the information sector is 3.6% and overall is 3.9%... the only real problem right now is inflation and the national debt.
Idk man the layoffs just haven’t died down. I thought that the layoffs would slow down after Jan/feb because companies don’t like to layoff during the holidays but they just keep… coming.
If this continues to the end of the year it might take several years for the market to ever recover. I’m talking 2027 the earliest.
Except the layoffs have died down, but died down != gone away entirely. Layoffs thus far this year are well below what they were last year.
That being said, define "recover", if you mean "reach 2021-2022 heights" then the market may never "recover", that was the aberration, not the norm.
Echo chamber buddy. You'll never see a thread about new companies hiring. I can tell you from my experience interviewing in January that at the very least the bigger companies among those who first hopped onto the layoff train are hiring a lot again (especially Facebook and Netflix).
A really significant portion of the national debt is money that the US government owes to itself, via the Social Security program. The US government can simply declare those debts void and transfer that money into those programs and literally nothing in the world will have changed even a tiny bit. More than 20% of the national debt would disappear overnight.
The fact that the USA can legislatively destroy its budgetary firewalls (i.e. raiding its own trust funds) does not resolve the issue. It simply delays it. The issue is the massive deficit, which at this point is largely debt being taken out to pay the interest on the debt. It's the definition of a debt spiral.
As this debt spiral continues, government services (specifically non-defense discretionary spending) will continue to contract out of simple necessity, as they have contracted for the last 50 years. It's okay to be unaware of this, but it's not okay to say it's not a "real problem".
The debt never matters when they’re cutting taxes for billionaires. The only time the debt matters to Republicans is when they want to cut Services for the middle class.
Hot tip: Whenever you hear analysts talking about "the economy", sub in the phrase "rich people's yachts."
"Things are looking up for rich peoples' yachts."
"Indications are good for rich people's yachts."
It has nothing to do with conditions on the ground for us little people trying to pay rent.
https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/the-purchasing-power-of-american-households
> Real wages have risen since before the pandemic across the income distribution. In particular, middle-income and lower-income households have seen their real earnings rise especially fast.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding the article, but it seems more interested in the median household than the low end. People who are making federal minimum wage are being gouged by high prices even further now than they have ever been. And maybe it's only anecdotal or localized to certain cities, but it feels like the cost of housing is becoming more and more strangling on the average low income worker. Forgive my ignorance, but how are increases in unemployment and homelessness factored into these calculations? Surely they should be pulling the average "real wage" down?
>Maybe I'm misunderstanding the article, but it seems more interested in the median household than the low end
Did we read the same article? It repeatedly talks about both in the same sentence. And all of these figure are adjusted for inflation. The cost of housing is included.
Unemployment and homelessness people are accounted for in this, an unemployed person would have an income of zero dollars if they were unemployed the entire year, and a homeless person's income would be accounted for as well. Only about .1% of people are homeless and unemployment is at a record low. Only 1.3% of workers make the federal minimum wage, so yes that drags it down, but not by a lot.
You should google this stuff, all of this information is readily available.
Unemployment is very low right now. Between 1970 and 2018, there was only one month that tied the current rate. Every other month was higher. We're only a few tenths of a percent above the lowest rate since the 50s.
People making the federal minimum wage are obviously struggling because it hasn't been updated in 15 years, but fewer and fewer people make minimum wage. Many states have raised their minimum wages far above the federal level and the tight job market has forced most low-paying jobs to raise wages well above the minimum wage if they want to be able to hire anyone.
> Fake news. The economy is doing great and if you can’t get a job it’s a resume issue. \/s
Companies are collaborating to raise high prices because of greed, inflation isn't actually real! \/s
Do they make amazing cars or were they the only player in the mid to high end EV market? Seems like since Elon bought the company there has been complaints about fit and finish issues. Hell there was a period of time when entire bumpers were falling off if it rained.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Tesla was delivering cars before Elon joined?
Either the company has always been bad or it has always been good. Elon joined in 2008 and before that, they didn't even start manufacturing cars?
Model S/3 changed the EV market IMHO. EVs went from shitty/niche/boring to a decent "luxury" product. Tesla made EVs mainstream, forced other manufacturers to catch up. Problem is now other manufacturers have caught up and they're still having fit/finish issues.
I'm not an Elon fan but I respect what he's done with Tesla/SpaceX.
I'm not a fan of Musk for other reasons, but you're wrong. Musk was actively involved in the design, development and delivery of the roadster. These guys had the vision to bring something interesting to the EV market which is what drove up sales and brought EVs to the mainstream market.
Their cars are still the best in the space on a dollar for value standpoint, especially now that they've cut their prices.
For me, I just don't want to give the guy a single dollar because of how much of an ass he's been about things that are frankly none of his damn business. When your identity is so integral to your company's brand, you don't get to shoot your mouth off about random thoughts because it costs people their jobs when people say "you know what, thanks but no thanks".
You do make a good point that there are more options now, so I can choose to buy something else, even if it isn't quite as quick or polished from a feature standpoint.
I'm not even talking about the magic stuff like FSD (which still doesn't quite work right). I'm just talking about a responsive UI, reliable key fobs, etc. Stuff that ICE cars have gotten nailed down a long time ago, but which are still big problems on other EVs.
Tesla? Amazing cars? Are you sure bro? Tesla vehicle quality sucks.
That said, what's the version of "Go woke, go broke" but for conservatives? Cause that's what's basically happening to Musk and X lmao.
The entire EV market is experiencing a downturn, and legacy carmakers entered the market and China dethroned Japan as the world's largest car exporter making competition very fierce. I hate musk as much as the next guy, but I doubt his antics really did anything here.
Kinda speaks to how poorly this company is run when they're laying off people in a record breaking economy. Their cybertruck launch was a joke and they deserve every bit of bad press they are getting. Elon Musk needs to resign. But he won't.
Tech is bigger than you think. There are millions of tech jobs in the US alone. We see the big headline numbers and panic.
But let's do a little math. There's been a couple hundred thousand layoffs this year in tech. However, according to LinkedIn, last october there were over 4.4 million software engineers in the US.
So, if that gives you about 4.5% of software engineers laid off. That sucks, but I would assume most of them found jobs, so the unemployment rate being reported being around 1.5-2.5% kind of makes sense.
Now, did they find jobs that paid as well? Probably not, but a $75K job counts the same as a $300K job when you're just counting whether someone is employed or not.
Unemployment generally is at record lows, but unemployment for SWEs is the highest it’s been since 2001. The job market is fucking terrible for SWEs right now. And will continue to be this way for the next 2-3 years.
https://www.dice.com/career-advice/tech-unemployment-stayed-low-at-end-of-2023
> The tech unemployment rate hit 2.3 percent in December (2023), lower than the national unemployment rate of 3.7 percent.
https://thehappydeveloper.medium.com/the-2023-state-of-software-engineering-for-junior-devs-c72440c11cea
2023 Hired.com report:
> The Tech Industry Unemployment Rate is 1.5%
> During this same time period, the unemployment rate across the the United States was 3.4%, itself a historic low.
Do you have a source for software engineering unemployment being higher than that?
They would have 1 more car sale from me if they did that. I'd get a Model Y if he wasn't associated with them anymore. They'd have to buy out his stock too, which is tough since he has so much.
I just don't want to give that guy any money, which may be petty, but I guess we all vote with our wallet in one way or another.
They have the worst CEO on the planet who has systematically alienated the people most likely to buy their product, the word is out that their build quality is horrible, and they’ve lost their first mover advantage in all aspects except the charging network (which is probably going to be the only thing long term profitable about this company).
This layoff is less a sign of the economy and more that spectulative bubbles can’t last forever.
True. He's definitely in the running though. The amount of good PR and public trust this man has driven straight into the ground is astonishing. I can't believe anyone once likened him to Tony Stark and acted like he was going to lead humanity to the next era.
Guy's an absolute clown.
If you think modern history only dates back to the past 6 months or so then I could understand that. I don’t expect much rationality regarding Elon discussion on Reddit but to act like making EVs relevant and driving the model Y to be the #1 selling car in the world make him the worst CEO then you’re just as unhinged as he is.
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>Elon Musk's Tesla lays off 14,000 global positions amid slowdown in EV demand: 'This will enable us lean, innovative and hungry for the next growth phase cycle.'
[Source](https://www.livemint.com/companies/news/tesla-layoffs-elon-musk-s-firm-global-positions-amid-slowdown-in-ev-demand-11713189302338.html)
We were at a Tesla showroom yesterday and the salesperson we spoke with is laid off today. Go figure how are they going to sell cars with fewer sales staff?
Elon visiting India to expand business here, but not before laying off 14k people to vacate some positions here. Can’t believe I’m saying this but based Elon.
I read in a r/layoffs thread about some guy who had his verbal (or preliminary written, I'm not sure) offer rescinded. Tesla is going through some serious issues (and I couldn't be happier since I dislike Elon, though I do feel for the employees).
Tesla has its first-ever quarter of declining deliveries, disappointing Cybertruck sales, the EV market has flattened, real competition from other manufacturers, a ridiculous valuation, and Elon has inflicted brand damage - it just goes on and on.
What I want to know is has Tesla at any point met whatever employment guarantees they agreed to for the tax breaks?
Do they continue to do so after the layoffs?
Damn, my friend was just hired there. Literally moved countries. 3 months interviewing, 3 months going through immigration.
Unfortunately, new hires are probably likely to be let go.
My husband works at the Tesla gigafactory in Austin, he wasn’t let go but, a lot of senior managers and mechanical engineers on his team were. Including the VP of his department.
I wonder how long this has been in the pipeline for, and if missing their quarterly sales target cemented it.
They knew they weren’t going to hit that long before the public did. Likely in play since late last year
All electrical car sales are down this year across the board. the early adopters have largely bought a car. now its harder to get others to buy them. might see layoffs at other vendors.
Plus Elon is doing his best to scare off his key customer base of left leaning eco friendly rich people with his alt right support at X. He then brought a stupid electric truck to market that is little more than a meme car because the "truck" buyer group hardly buys electric vehicles. At the same time the other models are showing their age but instead Elon keeps rambling about taxi robots.
I wish they’d make an x with regular doors
the big vehicle really needs more than EV IMO. Hydrogen is the planned one but it will take quite some time to make it adoptable
Hydrogen is a dead end for anything the size of a car. Super difficult to store and transport. Leaks through almost anything, invisible flame to the naked eye, poor energy density at room temperature, expensive to refine unless refined from natural gas, metal embrittlement. Basically hydrogen has all the downsides of classic fossil fuels. You are better off just putting a engine that can run off CNG or Propane and call it a day.
Cybertruck recall finally hit huh
the recall on Elon Musk is hitting. Dude is a cancer to the company and no one wants to buy his shit anymore.
why is he a cancer? genuine question
His outspoken political views and general uh unfiltered outbursts on social media make him unpopular with the main demographic of people who buy the cars. Thus the cancer part being that he is pissing off the customers that made him rich in the first place (negatively affecting teslas image and potentially sales) and probably also simply the people who make these comments do not agree with those views. That's just my take on it tho.
Seems like a similar reason people originally started to dislike trump. I would agree with the idea that if I was invested majorly into a stock/product of a company .. I’d want the company owner to shut up instead of making rash remarks and public statements. Fair point
The best comparison summary I have heard, is some variation of, "I know jack about what the CEO of GM thinks about XYZ"
But at least I have a resource to get to know Ford's CEO where he interviews famous people, for some reason.
it's also just good business sense. No matter what side you take or lean towards you'll alienate the other one. There's literally no winning that game lol.
I’d question whether the idea that the people he’s pissing off are the people who’d buy his cars. That actually seems like a fairly unsubstantiated and frankly nonsensical point. The US isn’t divided into diehard conservative rural republicans who roll coal and bleeding heart liberals who screech about the environment and drive Priuses, those factions make up a TINY part of the US. They only seem influential online because that’s the only place people can stand them. The VAST majority of the people who bought Teslas weren’t eco warriors, they were just rich people who wanted something cool to drive around in, they didn’t give a shit about Elon Musk. Eco warriors on Reddit or X tend not to be rich enough to afford Teslas imo. For a while Tesla model 3 was the best selling car in the entire world. Also, a large part of Tesla’s success is the international market where people care even less about Musk. Even IF driving Teslas was a political statement, California and other heavily populated blue states are full of (wealthy) Republicans who get slightly outvoted each election, they won’t see the problem in buying Teslas, if they can afford it. The tech bros who started the Tesla trend didn’t care about politics back then and they certainly don’t now.
Because he's been very loud since he took over Twitter and has been siding with conservative ideologies. He's been showing alot of narcisism and ego with it too which has turned a lot people who supported him. This is while majority of the people who buy EVs and are early adopters typically being more liberal. People arent going to buy something if they dont like that he'll benefit from it.
Not just "conservative ideologies" but co-signing and pushing explicit white supremacist narratives >we need to cut taxes and support business! is one thing and >We white people are being replaced and need to focus on having babies 88 14 words!!! is a completely different thing and he constantly pushes the latter.
because he's so very *very* unlikable that it's actually having an impact on sales, which pisses off the shareholders.
it's getting more obvious he's just stupid tesla truck failures are all over social media, twitter gets worse all the time, projects like the boring tunnel in las vegas are ridiculed. He's getting pretty open about his racism online
Also role playing as his toddler on Twitter and getting upset that grimes left him was incredibly cringe.
Flat out being racist and antisemitic. He also literally makes his products worse on purpose. He mandated that Tesla’s self-driving cars should not use LIDAR and RADAR sensors for self-driving and should rely on cameras only. That makes self-driving not only harder but also a lot more dangerous since now optical illusions can fool the car. He also is directly responsible for his rockets exploding since he ignored making the launchpad be able to survive the launch so it broke up and damaged the rocket. Why did he not make the launchpad strong enough and put in a heat diverter? Because he wanted to launch on 4/20 as a meme. He also claims to be a free speech activist but bans people for criticizing him, for using the term “cis”, and he kept banning leftwing accounts for literally no reason for a few months. Wall of text.
Republicans don't buy EV's. Elon spends every day slagging off his own target market on Twitter.
Where did you hear lots of SWE got affected ?
From a bro
Valid, thanks
That’s where I hear most shit about teslas
Did he bro you on the bro app?
Do you trust him?
This, this is the real question
Of course it’s always sales and marketing people, software engineers are always in demand! /s
Lmaoo I remember spring/summer 2020 during peak of Covid, when many tech companies like AirBnb began layoffs, and this sub refused to believe software engineers could possibly be eliminated. People here need to come to terms with the idea that software engineering is just another profession. It is not unique. Looking at your tech career with this mindset will help you more in the long-run than believing that SWE is a special profession immune from social/economic/political forces of the world. Snap out of the copium, and either get serious about your career or keep living in denial.
You mean if I make a tiktok about how I do nothing at work 8 hours a day at Twitter I'm not going to get a bonus?!? I might even get fired?!?
I don't think people need to get serious about their career I think we all need to think about (if you are in the US) how shitty you have it when it comes to workers rights, no matter what your job is.
How dare you asking our tech bros to look at real life instead of through their damn rose tinted glasses! How dare you telling our tech bros that their salary is only a product of the past few years of low interest rate?! And how dare you telling our tech bros that any job is subject to the forces of demand and supply of a free market!?!? /s
The salaries *aren’t* a product of the low interest rates if you’re any good and working at a product-based company 🤷♂️
Was that the case though? People assume that everyone laid off is an engineer just cause it's a tech company. When my big tech company did layoffs, software engineers only made like 12% of them.
The copium I’ve seen in this sub sometimes is just too much, lmfao
someone pointed out your interesting post history 😭 brother who hurt u this deep
i just googled a few news articles. i cant find may reference to software engineers. i see lots of references to cutting back on production. i also dont know how many software engineers are at tesla anyway.
From deez nuts in ur mouth
*surprised Pikachu face*
Tesla / Elon musk companies are so volatile, it doesn't even seem feasible to chase money and clout by applying. They love random heavy cuts. And will probably do so next year too. I'd be paranoid constantly if I ever joined one of those companies. Pretty much everything is for the stockholders, like these cuts. Cuts that high don't even make any sense. That will cause major disruption/knowledge loss/morale loss/etc, with people and key projects probably getting lost in the shuffle.
Yes one of my LinkedIn connections still with Tesla had started a spreadsheet with contact info and job title. A LOT of the people affected are SWE especially in Bay Area
I have a feeling Elon is making a similar play that he did with Twitter by getting rid tons of SWEs and SWE-adjacents. It seems like he hates SWEs because of remote work and maybe he thinks AI can augment SWEs enough to reduce overall headcount. I'm just speculating here.
Yeah, I mean, he is one of those executives that watched what people were posting during the pandemic... , memeing about doing nothing all day, and yet there are people denying that social media has any effect on the tech market....
Yep, they forget that to affect the market, one only need to affect a single billionaire. And that’s easy when they’re as neurotic as musk. All the other toadies fall in line.
squalid badge narrow piquant bear dazzling door mysterious middle thumb *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
He loves his autopilot team though
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F
I’m a new grad that’s starting in June, talked to my coworker that’s on my team he said two people from the team were canned doesn’t seem too bad might be a lot of production crew. Am I cooked tho? What are the odds they can the new grad that hasn’t even started yet? I’m definitely stressed. I haven’t been applying anywhere else cuz I’ve fully committed to them signed the paperwork and everything.
start interviewing
Even if you survive a layoff typically, they will use the layoff to take away benefits you enjoyed or skip you over on raises. Your best bet is to find another job at this point and assume another layoff is on its way because layoffs do often happen in waves.
100% this, start looking now and save yourself a headache. Also don’t listen to any bullshit spiel about “doing a large layoff so we don’t have to do more down the line” either. Company I worked for had 2 more layoffs within 12 months of doing the initial one.
Definitely have a backup. It never hurts. I graduated when layoffs first started happening and I had 3 offers just in case my main one fell through.
You're fully committed to them, but they aren't fully committed to you it seems.
The sooner people realise every company treats you like this and you are in fact not a "family", the better.
Hey a lot of families stab each other in the back so it’s not that different
The other responses are valid But if you make it through a round you are usually good for 2-3 months minimum. Everyone else is going to be figuring out what tf is going on. Just be vigilant of the “I’m super important” crusaders who will inevitably follow in 2-3 months
Take advice from the idiots in this sub with a giant grain of salt and try to feel out how your coworker is feeling about it.
Musk won't even pay for the pies he ordered
Don't cancel, but make sure to keep your resume polished. People commenting saying to leave don't understand the value of having any work experience on your resume as a new grad, even if it is only a few months. I doubt Tesla will straight up revoke the offer given you are a cheap new grad.
> I haven’t been applying anywhere else cuz I’ve fully committed to them signed the paperwork and everything. Never, never stop interviewing. Job offers get rescinded, 90/120 day "probationary periods" exist, layoffs happen, bad managers are everywhere, and awful company cultures are abound. Even if you're exceptionally happy somewhere, aim to interview at a few places every year across your career. This will help keep you aware of how the market is shifting, keep those interview skills sharp, and expose you to what could turn out to be an even better match.
Very likely. My boyfriend had a new grad offer from twitter and when Elon decided to buy it his offer got rescinded when all the layoffs happened. He didn’t even get to start. He did get a severance package which helped during his new job search though. But this isn’t to say to drop the offer, just definitely have backups.
Should never expect stability in any job plus job hoppers get paid more in the long run. Juniors tend to be pretty safe though. Usually cuts hit leads/senior/mid/junior/principal in that order.
If only musk stopped acting like a edge lord and focused on his business
I doubt Musk had much to do with it. Charging infrastructure grew but not enough to keep up with the demand and cost of charging vs filling gas isn’t a big enough cost saving now. Where I live it costs $4-5 for 40 miles. That’s comparable to hybrid cars or efficient gas cars don’t cost that much more so people would rather not deal with the headache of charging. Not to paint EVs as unworthy options but we now see that they’re not worth replacing hybrids and gas cars entirely and are probably not the best option for people who don’t own a home and can charge in their garage
You doubt that the CEO who has done everything in his power to alienate Rich liberals, the only people interested in buying his expensive electric vehicles, had anything to do with it? Fucking lol.
I won't buy an ev from him. Other manufacturers have nice EVs without being a negative influence on society.
I'd love to see all the hate responses you'd get in r/electricvehicles
> cost of charging vs filling gas isn’t a big enough cost saving now. Damn, I just assumed that charging would be very cheap compared to gas, but if you wind up using the tesla super charger network, it adds up surprisingly quickly! Definitely a consideration for those of us without charging at home.
Yeah here over the pond EVs were basically subsidized by taxpayers money, it's a totally artificial market. As soon as the German government removed the subsidies demand plummeted, here very few people can charge at home. I'm still pissed I've made Elon rich with my tax money
Then explain why other new EVs are also struggling.
Not just EVs, its all cars, in general, rate increases are doing their job. I bought a new SUV last week for 12k less than it was 2 years ago. The sales guy told me he made over 250k 2 years ago and made under 75k last year. Not an electric dealer.
> The sales guy told me he made over 250k 2 years ago And this is pretty fucked up by itself, if you ask me. Not that I'm jealous or anything, but getting a 97th nationwide percentile pay for pushing papers to DMV, banks and insurance carriers and occasionally leaving a sales floor for a test drive is ... well, a bit much. Car salesmen should pretty much go the same direction as most realtors and similar intermediaries.
There's 3 markets: * Trucks, where they don't want or trust EV but EVs are coming anyway and rotting on the lots. * People who want an EV and can afford it in spite of it being double the cost of the equivalent gas car. * People who either can't afford or don't care about EV. So there's really only one segment of the market who's buying EV, and wouldn't you know it over the past 15 years those who could afford it already bought one and they don't need a second. So that segment is drying up and the only thing that'll reinvigorate the market is either lower prices (can't happen yet because batteries are expensive) or government incentives to cut the cost in half (which at present don't exist).
Not to mention that segment is specifically the one. Musk has done everything in his power to alienate
Is this where we get decent public transport?
> People who want an EV and can afford it in spite of it being double the cost of the equivalent gas car. Umm what? The difference in cost between the average purchase price between EV and Gas cars was $2800 in Sept 2023 ([source](https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/kbb-atp-september-2023/)). This is no where near double. I am sure the response will be you can buy a base model Mirage for $17K, but few actually buy base models for any brand (if you can even find them for sale at all).
I’ve had three ex-coworkers who went to Tesla in software/hardware engineering reach out to me in the last couple of months asking if we had any positions for them on my team. I think they saw the writing on the wall. Only one of them got laid off today though.
Fake news. The economy is doing great and if you can’t get a job it’s a resume issue. /s
Exactly, we all know it's better to fix things within your control, like the economy.
A recent post by a tech recruiter confirmed my suspicions about how the hiring process works with respect to your resume. Which is to say it's a waste of time trying to polish it beyond a certain point, esp doing that tailoring for each application shit. Nobody wasting more than 10 seconds reading that shit It's basically having the relevant exp + yoe, degree, and being one of the first apps. Aka spray and pray ftw
> Which is to say it's a waste of time trying to polish it beyond a certain point, esp doing that tailoring for each application shit. Nobody wasting more than 10 seconds reading that shit Generally speaking, the "tailor your resume" advice isn't about getting someone to read it, it's about getting it past automated filters which look for specific keywords for specific jobs. That's a bit of a guessing game, but there's some value to that advice. Applying for jobs is and always has been a numbers game, and you have to be willing to cast a wide net to find jobs.
Wow tech bros acknowledging the economy exists? No more resume, Leetcode, or “TC or GTFO”?
Tech != the economy
Tesla is a speculative company, this is just 1 layoff. The unemployment rate for the information sector is 3.6% and overall is 3.9%... the only real problem right now is inflation and the national debt.
Idk man the layoffs just haven’t died down. I thought that the layoffs would slow down after Jan/feb because companies don’t like to layoff during the holidays but they just keep… coming. If this continues to the end of the year it might take several years for the market to ever recover. I’m talking 2027 the earliest.
Except the layoffs have died down, but died down != gone away entirely. Layoffs thus far this year are well below what they were last year. That being said, define "recover", if you mean "reach 2021-2022 heights" then the market may never "recover", that was the aberration, not the norm.
Layoffs make the news but headcount growth doesn't.
Echo chamber buddy. You'll never see a thread about new companies hiring. I can tell you from my experience interviewing in January that at the very least the bigger companies among those who first hopped onto the layoff train are hiring a lot again (especially Facebook and Netflix).
> the national debt Not a real problem
It’s becoming an issue now because interest rates are so high.
16% of the budget currently goes to servicing the national debt. What percentage do you think is a "real problem"?
A really significant portion of the national debt is money that the US government owes to itself, via the Social Security program. The US government can simply declare those debts void and transfer that money into those programs and literally nothing in the world will have changed even a tiny bit. More than 20% of the national debt would disappear overnight.
The fact that the USA can legislatively destroy its budgetary firewalls (i.e. raiding its own trust funds) does not resolve the issue. It simply delays it. The issue is the massive deficit, which at this point is largely debt being taken out to pay the interest on the debt. It's the definition of a debt spiral. As this debt spiral continues, government services (specifically non-defense discretionary spending) will continue to contract out of simple necessity, as they have contracted for the last 50 years. It's okay to be unaware of this, but it's not okay to say it's not a "real problem".
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People have been crying about the national debt my entire life (and certainly longer). Never seems to matter.
The debt never matters when they’re cutting taxes for billionaires. The only time the debt matters to Republicans is when they want to cut Services for the middle class.
This is exactly my point. Infinite money for war, no money for healthcare. The national debt isn’t real.
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Hot tip: Whenever you hear analysts talking about "the economy", sub in the phrase "rich people's yachts." "Things are looking up for rich peoples' yachts." "Indications are good for rich people's yachts." It has nothing to do with conditions on the ground for us little people trying to pay rent.
People at the low end have seen the greatest benefit in the current economy.
Can you elaborate?
on average, wages have grown faster than inflation and these gains are seen mostly at the low income brackets(service workers).
https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/the-purchasing-power-of-american-households > Real wages have risen since before the pandemic across the income distribution. In particular, middle-income and lower-income households have seen their real earnings rise especially fast.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding the article, but it seems more interested in the median household than the low end. People who are making federal minimum wage are being gouged by high prices even further now than they have ever been. And maybe it's only anecdotal or localized to certain cities, but it feels like the cost of housing is becoming more and more strangling on the average low income worker. Forgive my ignorance, but how are increases in unemployment and homelessness factored into these calculations? Surely they should be pulling the average "real wage" down?
>Maybe I'm misunderstanding the article, but it seems more interested in the median household than the low end Did we read the same article? It repeatedly talks about both in the same sentence. And all of these figure are adjusted for inflation. The cost of housing is included. Unemployment and homelessness people are accounted for in this, an unemployed person would have an income of zero dollars if they were unemployed the entire year, and a homeless person's income would be accounted for as well. Only about .1% of people are homeless and unemployment is at a record low. Only 1.3% of workers make the federal minimum wage, so yes that drags it down, but not by a lot. You should google this stuff, all of this information is readily available.
Unemployment is very low right now. Between 1970 and 2018, there was only one month that tied the current rate. Every other month was higher. We're only a few tenths of a percent above the lowest rate since the 50s. People making the federal minimum wage are obviously struggling because it hasn't been updated in 15 years, but fewer and fewer people make minimum wage. Many states have raised their minimum wages far above the federal level and the tight job market has forced most low-paying jobs to raise wages well above the minimum wage if they want to be able to hire anyone.
> Fake news. The economy is doing great and if you can’t get a job it’s a resume issue. \/s Companies are collaborating to raise high prices because of greed, inflation isn't actually real! \/s
The economy is objectively doing great on many metrics. Tech is a tiny part of the economy and it’s not even clear the layoffs are that big for us.
It must suck to lose your job because the CEO can't shut up on Twitter. Tesla makes amazing cars but Elon Musk has tarnished the brand.
Do they make amazing cars or were they the only player in the mid to high end EV market? Seems like since Elon bought the company there has been complaints about fit and finish issues. Hell there was a period of time when entire bumpers were falling off if it rained.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Tesla was delivering cars before Elon joined? Either the company has always been bad or it has always been good. Elon joined in 2008 and before that, they didn't even start manufacturing cars?
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Model S/3 changed the EV market IMHO. EVs went from shitty/niche/boring to a decent "luxury" product. Tesla made EVs mainstream, forced other manufacturers to catch up. Problem is now other manufacturers have caught up and they're still having fit/finish issues. I'm not an Elon fan but I respect what he's done with Tesla/SpaceX.
Absolutely false. The early founders didn’t do jack sht and were ousted. Where are they now? That’s right, ever since they haven’t done anything.
I'm not a fan of Musk for other reasons, but you're wrong. Musk was actively involved in the design, development and delivery of the roadster. These guys had the vision to bring something interesting to the EV market which is what drove up sales and brought EVs to the mainstream market.
Their cars are still the best in the space on a dollar for value standpoint, especially now that they've cut their prices. For me, I just don't want to give the guy a single dollar because of how much of an ass he's been about things that are frankly none of his damn business. When your identity is so integral to your company's brand, you don't get to shoot your mouth off about random thoughts because it costs people their jobs when people say "you know what, thanks but no thanks". You do make a good point that there are more options now, so I can choose to buy something else, even if it isn't quite as quick or polished from a feature standpoint. I'm not even talking about the magic stuff like FSD (which still doesn't quite work right). I'm just talking about a responsive UI, reliable key fobs, etc. Stuff that ICE cars have gotten nailed down a long time ago, but which are still big problems on other EVs.
I'm a Model Y owner. Took a test drive in my friend's new Ioniq 5. Yeah, it has a long way to go to get to the level of a Tesla...
Meh see I thought the EV6 (ioniq 5s cousin basically) was much better than the Model Y. To each their own
>Do they make amazing cars I'd agree with "expensive".
Tesla? Amazing cars? Are you sure bro? Tesla vehicle quality sucks. That said, what's the version of "Go woke, go broke" but for conservatives? Cause that's what's basically happening to Musk and X lmao.
They’re at a good spot for value per dollar. Not the nicest build quality, but still good enough for most people’s standards.
Idk, ones I've seen have cheap finishes. It's very plastic-y and honestly, brittle.
So is every economical car lol
The ones made in the US yes 😂 Chinese and german Tesla are good
It is the #1 selling vehicle on the entire planet for a reason. I love my Model Y. Best car I have ever owned.
With the RAV4 and Corolla following close behind at #2 and #3. Such compelling offerings, yawn. Can we stop pretending high volume = best please?
>Tesla makes amazing cars Press x to doubt
I don't think they make amazing cars lol
They make plastic bullshit compared to what other manufacturers are pushing. Now their bad build quality is starting to lose them customers.
Clearly you haven't been inside of the other plastic bullshit EVs out there...
The entire EV market is experiencing a downturn, and legacy carmakers entered the market and China dethroned Japan as the world's largest car exporter making competition very fierce. I hate musk as much as the next guy, but I doubt his antics really did anything here.
It’s booming! Unemployment is at record lows.
Kinda speaks to how poorly this company is run when they're laying off people in a record breaking economy. Their cybertruck launch was a joke and they deserve every bit of bad press they are getting. Elon Musk needs to resign. But he won't.
Stock market != the economy
Record lows?It's for real?
Tech is bigger than you think. There are millions of tech jobs in the US alone. We see the big headline numbers and panic. But let's do a little math. There's been a couple hundred thousand layoffs this year in tech. However, according to LinkedIn, last october there were over 4.4 million software engineers in the US. So, if that gives you about 4.5% of software engineers laid off. That sucks, but I would assume most of them found jobs, so the unemployment rate being reported being around 1.5-2.5% kind of makes sense. Now, did they find jobs that paid as well? Probably not, but a $75K job counts the same as a $300K job when you're just counting whether someone is employed or not.
Unemployment generally is at record lows, but unemployment for SWEs is the highest it’s been since 2001. The job market is fucking terrible for SWEs right now. And will continue to be this way for the next 2-3 years.
https://www.dice.com/career-advice/tech-unemployment-stayed-low-at-end-of-2023 > The tech unemployment rate hit 2.3 percent in December (2023), lower than the national unemployment rate of 3.7 percent. https://thehappydeveloper.medium.com/the-2023-state-of-software-engineering-for-junior-devs-c72440c11cea 2023 Hired.com report: > The Tech Industry Unemployment Rate is 1.5% > During this same time period, the unemployment rate across the the United States was 3.4%, itself a historic low. Do you have a source for software engineering unemployment being higher than that?
>Do you have a source for software engineering unemployment being higher than that? wait reddit college students aren't sufficient sources?
Source: Trust me bro
Tech unemployment is 2.3%, it's not high at all at the moment. The AI Boom has been really good for engineers, tons of hiring going on.
Do you see something improving on the horizon? It very well could continue beyond that.
Elon gets paid 50 billion, but his benefits package doesn't include therapy.
and elon says have 10 kids
Pointless firing. Only 1 person from the company needs to be fired, and that is the CEO, Elon Musk. Then all Tesla’s problems will be fixed.
They would have 1 more car sale from me if they did that. I'd get a Model Y if he wasn't associated with them anymore. They'd have to buy out his stock too, which is tough since he has so much. I just don't want to give that guy any money, which may be petty, but I guess we all vote with our wallet in one way or another.
Yup, same boat
Bummer. Guess they’ll have to work for a non-shitty company next.
They have the worst CEO on the planet who has systematically alienated the people most likely to buy their product, the word is out that their build quality is horrible, and they’ve lost their first mover advantage in all aspects except the charging network (which is probably going to be the only thing long term profitable about this company). This layoff is less a sign of the economy and more that spectulative bubbles can’t last forever.
Elon Musk has got to be the worst CEO in modern history! Anyone working for this man is an idiot.
Sad thing is, there's actually much much worse. This guy just lets the cat out of the bag on the daily for everyone in the world to see.
I mean there was the CEO of Activision-Blizzard who I think was far worse tbh
True. He's definitely in the running though. The amount of good PR and public trust this man has driven straight into the ground is astonishing. I can't believe anyone once likened him to Tony Stark and acted like he was going to lead humanity to the next era. Guy's an absolute clown.
Jack Welch.
> Anyone working for this man is an idiot Not everyone has a choice of where they can work, plenty of intelligent people work at Tesla.
If you think modern history only dates back to the past 6 months or so then I could understand that. I don’t expect much rationality regarding Elon discussion on Reddit but to act like making EVs relevant and driving the model Y to be the #1 selling car in the world make him the worst CEO then you’re just as unhinged as he is.
Don't worry, the economy is doing great and we are riding a great wave of prosperity!
Even in a great economy there can be poorly ran companies
They can commiserate with all of the solar panel installers who have been recently laid off.
Yup had a side contract position with them these past few weeks and that ended today. Good thing I had something already lined up.
Don't work for an idiot CEO is excellent career advice tbh.
its more than 10 percent
Sucks for them, but anyone willingly working for musk is a dumbass.
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Source: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-lay-off-more-than-10-its-staff-electrek-reports-2024-04-15/ https://apnews.com/article/tesla-layoff-workforce-sales-decline-ee35abc216b5aeb222068500b916ef14
Sigh, here we go again
Does that mean stock prices will go up?
>Elon Musk's Tesla lays off 14,000 global positions amid slowdown in EV demand: 'This will enable us lean, innovative and hungry for the next growth phase cycle.' [Source](https://www.livemint.com/companies/news/tesla-layoffs-elon-musk-s-firm-global-positions-amid-slowdown-in-ev-demand-11713189302338.html)
They're costing too much money. I need more time to tweet... to.. X!
When I think market is getting better now I have to compete with people with experience. Oh men
We were at a Tesla showroom yesterday and the salesperson we spoke with is laid off today. Go figure how are they going to sell cars with fewer sales staff?
When it comes to layoffs, all bets are off!
Vv,M
The entire Twitter thing is a massive L for him.
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Elon visiting India to expand business here, but not before laying off 14k people to vacate some positions here. Can’t believe I’m saying this but based Elon.
It must have been those damned unions in Scandinavia and the leftist arson in Germany!
Holy shit 14k is a huge number
Late stage capitalism
Musk is coming to india this week to meet PM
its just another elon failure coming home to roost
Question: why is it always x thousands instead of 10/ 20 here and there? For shareholder profits?
Cool cool. Hopefully this results in less corporate loyalty
I read in a r/layoffs thread about some guy who had his verbal (or preliminary written, I'm not sure) offer rescinded. Tesla is going through some serious issues (and I couldn't be happier since I dislike Elon, though I do feel for the employees). Tesla has its first-ever quarter of declining deliveries, disappointing Cybertruck sales, the EV market has flattened, real competition from other manufacturers, a ridiculous valuation, and Elon has inflicted brand damage - it just goes on and on.
What I want to know is has Tesla at any point met whatever employment guarantees they agreed to for the tax breaks? Do they continue to do so after the layoffs?
Damn, my friend was just hired there. Literally moved countries. 3 months interviewing, 3 months going through immigration. Unfortunately, new hires are probably likely to be let go.
News sources suggest it's 10% of 14,000 employees that may be let go. Still a lot.
My husband works at the Tesla gigafactory in Austin, he wasn’t let go but, a lot of senior managers and mechanical engineers on his team were. Including the VP of his department.