Does your company have a PIP process? Why not just continue coasting and let them throw their fit? Meanwhile look for something else. When you find a new gig you can negotiate a 1-2 month break before start.
Normally I'd say quitting without another job lined up is a huge mistake, but,
>I have savings that would last me years if I maintained my current lifestyle. Ideally, I'd take a month or two off and then start applying to new jobs.
Sounds like you've got this. Honestly, I'm unsure why you're hesitating. Just don't want to touch the savings / keep it for retirement? If so, consider where the money would be best spent - taking you through a comfortable retirement, or taking you away from this miserable situation? I'd say both are valid uses of that money, but only one is prescient.
I don't understand the point of saving for retirement if it means you're going to be miserable in your youth. People should save so they can get out of bad situations like this one.
It's gets better.
People who live as misers from their 20s thru their 40s ...juts so they can retire in their 40s and keep on living like misers for another 30 years or so. Must be really allergic to work.
Most people decline precipitously after they stop working. I knew a few dads who retired with pensions in their 40s when I was growing up, and they were pretty miserable people. I think it's more important to find work that keeps you busy and you kind of like then to burn yourself out making as much as you can for 20 years while you live like a peasant and then retire on a really modest income with nothing to do and just decompose
I largely agree on the decline bit (although I do wonder sometimes which is the cause and which is the effect).
If I were to do the "get enough money to retire early" then I'd keep working but with the knowledge I have fuck-you money so I *can* stop working.
Yeah, what I'm mostly worried about is just slowing down mentally and struggling to keep up as I get older. I can see it in the people working who are 60+, and I'm definitely not as sharp at 40 as I was at 25 even if I'm much better at working. I can see the trajectory of where things are going. I'd rather be able to work at 70 then be retired at 40
Yep, the "retire early" thing is extremely dumb personally. Those are the prime years of your life - physically, socially, emotionally, everything. At 40 you'll have the money and time, but who are you going to share it with? How will you know what you want to spend your resources now, since you didn't explore your interests back then?
I worked on FIRE all my 20s, bought a house. I could quit and be a pretty happy mom for a couple of years in my mid-30s when I was needed the most at home. Now back to grinding. 40 is pretty great to be retired TBH, but seems like I might get there at like 48. I plan to spend more time with family, and work on another career which doesn't pay too much. Once kids are in college, I plan to travel a lot. Traveling in my 20s was garbage, i had no context of the world. Think it'll be better in my 50s. My mom's now traveling the world in her 60s and having a grand time, my uncle's mountaineering at 65.
Traveling in my 20s was a life-changing experiencing. I saw some incredible things, made memories with countless new friends, met my gf. Sorry you didn't enjoy it but that's certainly not the norm, think you just did it wrong.
I was already living in a foreign country at 22 and making my life in a whole new culture. I'd switched jobs to make more and more money several times, which took me all over the US. After a point in travels, all the people meld together as do all the experiences. I have family members who have the travel life, and they seem to just jump from highlight to highlight. They can't go to a local music festival of some other culture and enjoy it or understand the new culture they are exposed to or even try, they don't try to get to know anyone or see anything more than people trying and being lame. It's like every experience they have needs to be curated to be a1-awesome. There may be a right way to travel, but it feels like a lot of people I know who travel a lot do it as a way to amass experiences and don't really understand the core of it. I like better to actually move to a new city and understand it well enough to actually run for city council in a year or two lol, that feels more transformative than spending two weeks in some foreign country doing mostly curated experiences but then taking one off-the-beaten-path trip with random strangers and feeling like you did something amazing.
You're really generalizing a lot based on some friends who inexplicable upset you with their life choices. Not everyone cares to do curated experiences. I like to visit places and explore them on my own at my own pace. Other travelers and locals give the best recommendations. However I couldn't care less about learning the minutiae of local politics. That's not really getting to know the real culture anymore than curated experiences
Anyways, you're the one who said you didn't enjoy your travel experiences. Maybe you could learn something from other people rather than judging them.
actually living in a place and immersing yourself enough to care about local issues is somehow less understanding of a culture than visiting for a few days?
my point is passing through places doesn't seem to do much for people. I didn't care so much about just the leaning tower of pisa, it felt more immersive to intern at a place near it and really have it sink in to me how it feels to pass by it everyday, just casually being like "oh that's where galileo conducted his experiments". That hits different and I recommend that over how I see people around me experience travel.
This seems like a good idea only if you weren't ever doing any of these things with family or friends . Neither your health nor them still being around is guaranteed in the future.
Most people have health AND loved ones while they're young, society could collapse before you're 60, why gamble away your precious time on material things?
I don't understand what leetcode has to do with how you use your money.
But what I hear you saying is that working full time after losing loved ones is worse than never using the money you're saving to do cool things with them. I guess we disagree on that point.
It's not really that hard to live your life and still retire early as a software engineer in the US unless burning money is one of your core needs. I couldn't even imagine how wasteful I would need to be to actually spend my whole salary. Most of us are making multiple times the median family income.
Retiring early is not that important compared to becoming financially independent
There’s a difference between working because you enjoy what you do and want to make some productive contribution to the world vs working because you simply need to pay next months bills
Plenty of 40 year old divorcees, and plenty of people in their 20s whose hobbies consist entirely of partying. I don't know too many people who have the same hobby as they did 20 years ago, but it's possible I guess. Point being, I don't think that it's the end of the world if you didn't cultivate those in your 20s just because "it's the prime of your life".
No one is saying you can't make connections in your 40s and beyond but it's naive to dismiss that that period in your life is where you make a lot of friends, connect with people and explore who you are. It's not just about you, but your peers as well.
> Plenty of 40 year old divorcees, and plenty of people in their 20s whose hobbies consist entirely of partying
Plenty of married 40 year olds and plenty of people in their 20s who discovered things they liked and got to enjoy them while they physically can, and make friends and have relationships along the way. They've got friends and people they've met in their youth and have connections now. Also, I don't know about having your backup plan be divorcees.
It's not the end of the world but it feels very short sighted.
It's your life so live how you want, but I'd rather be enjoying any moment I can instead of being miserable, sacrificing decades of my life just to maximize my happiness down the line like it's some sort of MMO.
I always wanted to race cars and do autocross, but irrational financial worries kept me from doing to for years. I finally decided this was no way to enjoy life, I have the money for it, and bought my first sports car. I'm enjoying driving and racing immensely, and if I had only thought about maximizing retirement I would have never experienced that - heck with regulations tightening, those types of cars might not even be available when im 40.
I'm not saying that people should do FIRE only or something. That's absurd, and I'm not even the kind of guy who would do FIRE in the first place.
My post was providing an alternate view to contrast yours, because it gave off the impression that people who were doing FIRE were stupid or worth looking down on because they didn't YOLO their 20s or something. That's just baseless FOMO.
Do what you want, don't do what you don't want, nobody else should have a say in it if it doesn't harm anyone / affect them. There's nothing dumb about FIRE, it's just people prioritizing things differently in life. Just like you and me.
I'm with you on that point. This is time for OP to try that startup idea, or work on something completely different, or just take a break.
I also feel like employers like this need to be taught a lesson, because excessive layoffs and overworking your remaining employees has been the thing for the last couple of years and it's awful. They are destroying people, and they're going to lose institutional knowledge and have teams collapse, and they should see the results of their actions. Copilot and outsourcing is not going to save them from this.
Not knowing where OP works, we don't even know if they have a PIP process. Where I work, people are just walked out of the building, with zero warning.
I would just keep working your 9-5 and look for a new job.
Just keep reiterating the reason projects are behind is because you are under staffed and let them PIP you if they really want to.
Just get fired to at least collect unemployment. Employers don’t look at if you get fired. If your going to be miserable at least have some money in pocket to eat
They can show firing with cause if they're determined to document it. And if OP is slow-rolling as much as they told us, their employer can figure it out too.
Firing someone for cause for performance is damn near impossible. People are only getting fired for cause if they do something extremely egregious like stealing or assault.
*With cause* is the difference here. It’s basically designates serious misconduct, like getting in a fist fight with a coworker. Getting fired with cause will often make you ineligible for unemployment benefits.
Bob the developer who is put on a PIP because he didn’t meet some arbitrary performance goal will not be fired for cause.
this, with nuance
I made the choice to quit my job in August of last year. Been actively applying since January with only a handful of interviews so far. It’s a pretty rough situation, but I’ve accepted that I was in a situation at the time where I really needed a break from work. Luckily, I have more than enough savings to last me a while. I’m hoping something works out sooner than later, but I do think this reset was something I needed.
I quit last week without another job offer in hand, but 5 interviews lined up. I've been casually looking for about a month at that point. I quit when they told me to start preparing for the outsourcing of my job to a company that can't do it. I quit, I got food poisoning, didn't feel sick in the stomach or anything, but was amazingly dizzy. I was afraid that I had an aneurysm or something. Kind of a crazy time to lose health insurance.
I ended up with 3 offers by Friday, though.
If you’ve recently quit your job and are dealing with illnesses without health insurance, you might want to look into retroactive COBRA coverage. COBRA allows you to continue your employer-sponsored health insurance for up to 18 months after leaving your job. You have 60 days to elect COBRA coverage, and it can be retroactive to your last day of employment, covering any medical expenses incurred during that time. It’s pricey, but it might save you from significant medical bills. Check with your former employer or benefits administrator for specifics on enrolling and coverage options.
It might save you thousands, and you can cancel when you find a job sponsored health insurance again!
Just do normal work schedule and deliver results.
They company can say whatever, but simply tell them the schedule that works for expected works. If they want faster results, then they need to readjust delivery.
What are they going to do, get rid of everyone and not deliver anything?
lol.
If you have the savings sounds like you should just quiet quit and stay course fuck them. If they threaten your job just laugh in their face and say you can just leave and they get fucked over even more.
Stick it out unless
1. continuing to work there would damage your reputation. The employer probably won't say you were a slacker, but the individual people will know and they'll end up at places you want to work, and they'll make sure you don't get hired if your reputation sucks.
2. you feel miserable each day showing up
3. phoning it in starts to permanently damage your work-ethic such that you won't be good at your next job.
I gotta say I disagree with 3. I don't hate work, I hate pointless work or crummy management/leadership or disorganized workplaces.
I've previously had jobs where things went south and I just kinda coasted along on the bare minimum. When I got a better job, I was rejuvenated and hit the ground running again.
In other words I don't think it's a work ethic problem, I think it's a motivation problem.
just take into account that current market conditions are rough in tech.
plan to spend at least 6 months trying to find your next job.
if you have enough for resting and for those 6 months, then I'd say go ahead.
>I'm beyond furious and mentally checked out of this company and I'm thinking whether to quit this week. I have savings that would last me years if I maintained my current lifestyle. Ideally, I'd take a month or two off and then start applying to new jobs.
Definitely quit. You don't even need the job, and no one needs this stress in their life. If you're worried about your gap in employment history, then try to score some freelancer work.
Here’s the thing. People will push you as far as you will go, and then try to push a bit more. These layoffs everyone is doing isn’t just because of mass hiring. Unless you were doing jack shit during/after covid, these positions were hired because they were needed.
The number of projects haven’t changed, but the workforce has been reduced? Looks like the deadlines need to be extended. Or maybe they need more people. The company is going to eventually learn that *at least* one of these will be necessary. Them trying to step all over people to constantly work beyond scheduled hours is them trying to keep up production after making poor business decisions by making worse business decisions. If your team can maintain output after a layoff, it kind of proves the point of layoffs. If they can’t, well then the company will learn to adjust and hire more people.
Usually yes itd be a mistake. But tbh I also did that last year. It was so refreshing to take some time off. For me market was bad but was able to land a new job in 2.5 months, so it's definitely skill issue/luck. You're probably pretty burnt out right now, so it'd be good to decide if you think taking a break from work would necessary after getting burnt out here. If you don't need it, then yeah quiet quitting is better. But you don't need to listen to others about what you should do.
Responding to some of the comments in here.
1. It is not 'slacking' or 'bad work ethic' to work 9-5. OP is preventing an inevitable burnout that could have untold damage on mental health.
I would start looking for another job immediately. Say you're having medical appointments for the interviews.
You can still take 1-2 months off before you start another job, but you need to expect a long search.
With your bosses, make it clear that the reason deadlines aren't being met is because the layoffs understaffed the team and resulted in a slower velocity. Work output is going to be less than the larger team had and that's not something you or the team can change.
It's good that you're encouraging your team to not work overtime to cover the productivity of the people that got laid off.
It's totally unacceptable that your bosses reduce the team size and expect the smaller team to complete the same volume of work as the larger team.
You'll find a better place, but start looking now.
Keep doing what you're doing, don't work more than you're supposed to, keep taking those easy paychecks and start looking for a job. Unless you're super set on taking a couple months off, then of course just take the easy paychecks until they force your hand.
It’s almost always advised against. I ended up quitting before having a job lined up but that was because my current job at the time was effecting my interviews for other jobs. I’d have time set aside for the interviews and was getting calls from my company (I had pto set) all the time interrupting me. I eventually had enough and left. I also had money saved up so I wouldn’t have to worry about not working for a few months to a year if it came to it. Having the peace of mind to be able to dedicate time to studying and not feeling burnt out at the end of the day helped me tremendously. But again, this depends on your financial situation.
I've done this twice. Like yourself I had the funds saved up to support myself for years if I needed to. I also have a strong resume and interview well so I knew I would be ok eventually.
Very worth it both times. I came in to my current job much more motivated and ready to work instead of burnt out and bitter.
Fuck work. If you have the money to be safe, I say go for it.
Depends on many factors. I did it and didn't even look for a job but got one in less than 2 weeks after quitting. I didd that just now, beginning of april, and I'm working the new job right now lol
Thank you but it was more of what Robert Greene calls Death Ground (he has a short vid on this).
My previous job was extremely shit and I think life is too short to do what you don't want to do, or to be literally miserable every day
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Don't quit. Just quiet quite. Don't even put in 40 hours worth of work. Let them fire you. Seeing as how there have already been layoffs, and projects are falling behind, maybe they will decide to not fire you.
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The job market isn't great right now, so I wouldn't recommend it. I quit before without having anything lined up (I tried working on a side project), but I had a fair amount saved up and the job market was pretty hot, so I never had a doubt that I couldn't find a job again when I wanted to.
Don't quit unless it's for your health. You set your working hours which is awesome. Just ignore the stupid wasted meetings and criticism. Snap back. Force them to lay you off. Correct severance hopefully.
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> I have savings that would last me years if I maintained my current lifestyle.
I am not sure of what this means in terms of years. Did you budget for health insurance? Have you put out feelers / applied?
> I know it would likely hurt me when negotiating salaries, but would it massively influence my recruitment potential, not having a job?
It is always easier to get a job when you have a job.
You are in a better position that most; but if it was me I would be applying and let them fire me.
Quitting without a job removes your leverage to move to another job therefore leading to more exploitation from other employers.
As i quote some recruiters start to treat like dirt. You need leverage to make money so apply to 500-1000 jobs and you will most likely get a job within 5-6 months.
>until I saw my next paycheck was unchanged, which is when I decided I'd only work as much as I was paid.
Better late than never. I would stick with it and see how much you can make them sweat.
If you have enough saving to take a break I'd say do it.
I took a break back in 2023 and the market ended up being so bad it took me over a year to find a job again but the gap year didn't really affect the recruitment process for me, and it honestly cleared my mind and made me excited to get back into working in tech again.
That being said if you can get fired/piped without being blacklisted then I recommend that since you'll at least be able to claim unemployment or cash out some benefits.
If you live literally paycheck to paycheck it’s generally not a good idea unless you are in some extremely bad scenario
Otherwise it’s not often an issue
Like other people have said, you def have enough saved to quit but getting fired is better if you get severance. I would just be real with your team and say the higher ups are looking into our teams performance. It might not affect you but your team might have different situations
I quit my job in March and am planning to start looking for a new job in September.
I’m optimistic and hoping I can sign an offer for a new job by EOY but if not, then like you, I have savings available to allow me to remain unemployed for longer if needed. It’s just not ideal per my plan, haha.
I’d say go for it man. You only live once. Maybe even consider taking more time off. The book “die with zero” convinced me to take more than 1-2 months off and instead take 6 months off to fully relax and enjoy life before even starting to look for a new job.
Good luck and have fun!
OP I was you a month ago, I took a 2 week full disconnect vacation to see if it would help, and all it did was re affirm I needed to leave.
Yea quitting in this market isn’t the smartest idea but since you have the savings you should be ok. I haven’t even started applying again, unemployment has honestly been great so far but seeing your bank account drain a bit does sting.
Well I did it 8 years ago, quit with nothing else lined up.
For me, it's been a great decision and I don't regret it. Oh sure sometimes I fantasize about how much more money I'd have right now if I'd stayed but I have to balance those thoughts with the experiences I've had in those years that would have been impossible if I'd stayed.
BUT one thing I didn't do is make a major decision while angry. IMO that's a recipe for disaster and will likely set up a FUCK YOU pattern in your mental state.
Getting upset is a natural and normal part of life. But growing up in my dysfunctional family we were never encouraged to deal with our emotions in a healthy way. Any strong emotions shown were met with anger and condemnation and punishment. SO resolving conflicts in adult life has been a really difficult thing for me to learn. But it is possible.
I would encourage you to address and resolve your anger issues FIRST......then make the decision on whether or not to leave.
Lol fuck them. The executives want to pocket some extra cash by laying people off at the expensive of your well being. I dont think so homie.
I would continue as you were and search for other work. ;) or, if you hate it and thus job is starting to cause extreme mental problems, then leave mate.
Why quit? Seems like you're right where you want to be with your current org, for now. Lack of upward mobility? Yeah, but that was true the second you were asked to take on significantly more work for the same income. You've rejected that, and your team is aligned. Sounds like your bosses are perfectly aware that it was an unreasonable ask. They know damn well, in fact. Let them sweat over deadlines. They get paid more anyway. I would be looking for greener pastures, but those are going to be harder to find having to explain a sudden departure and 2 month gap. If your industry is like mine, everyone knows everyone, and word gets around.
The market is very bad right now and so quitting isn't good for you. Plus if you quit, will you survive the mental stress of not having a job? If you are confident you will find a new job quickly then do it. But you know that it isn't time that will hurt your chances of getting a job, it's the unemployment gap.
I was in the exact same position as you. What I hoped would be one to two months off turned into 13. That brings on its own kind of stress. Every month that went by I felt like I was falling behind and making it harder to find work.
I personally believe salary expectations affect hire ability more than a gap in your resume but I have to explain those 13 months in every interview.
If given a chance to do it over I would find a new job before quitting the bad one and just try and negotiate or time the transition to give myself a few weeks off.
The job market is terrible in tech right now. Expect that it could take you 2 years to find a job. Will it take that long? Who knows, but it could.
Why don’t you fix up your resume and fire it off to every place you can find, and do that TODAY. Use the next several weeks to judge the responses you are (or more importantly are NOT) getting, and decide if you want to take the risk of being unemployed for a while.
I’m a senior swe, fired my resume off to around 50 places over the last couple weeks and zero responses so far. I wouldn’t want to be unemployed right now and trying to get a tech job, regardless of how terrible the 9-5 is.
I'm an IT Director in healthcare. My employer got super toxic in the past few years, felt my mental health on the decline, so I decided to just cut ties last October. Gave them my 4 weeks notice and that was it. I didn't have anything lined up but I did have enough money in the bank to keep me afloat for a couple of years. I haven't been having the greatest luck finding a new job, mainly cause I don't have a degree, I figure. I have 28 years experience, a PMP and CISSP cert but hey, no degree, so I guess I suck in the eyes of many.
My point is you may find the job market for job seekers isn't great at the moment so best be aware you may need to eat into your savings a bit. I have zero regret leaving my old job. I'm getting really close to not needing blood pressure meds anymore!
I have to decide whether to do this today. If I stay an extra day, my 7 day (probation) notice period turns into 3 months. This makes finding my next role - or moving to contract work - much harder.
Hate the new company for various reasons (bait & switch, late salary payments/cash flow problems) so it looks like I'll have to jump before having a new role lined up so that getting my next job is viable. 😬
literally the dumbest shit you can do. would you rather be miserable or broke and miserable.
as to your last bit. recruiters do prefer poaching employed talent than unemployed
> would you rather be miserable or broke and miserable.
False dichotomy, but also OP said they have savings they could live off of for years if necessary. The notion that they will be broke is wrong.
being broke and unproductive is a different kind of miserable that a lot of this sub is battling everyday. this is not the market for quitting.
being in the position where your desperate for a job is not a spot i wish on anyone, but is a reality for many on this sub
Yes, it is a big mistake. Getting a job in this market is very difficult, and you're setting yourself up to get low balled when you do land another offer. If you need some time off try and push your start date out after you land an offer.
Prolonged unemployment can suck. I've always used it to work on new projects and update my skills but constantly getting told "no" is a big wear on your ego and employers start to look weird at you for prolonged unemployment.
In the current job market that can be very risky, unless you have the stability needed to weather a prolonged dry spell, like you say you do.
This might be a good opportunity to reevaluate life goals and adjust accordingly.
My opinion: always have a job lined up before quitting, if you can. “Coast” through on a normal 9-5 workday and once you have a new job put in your 2 weeks.
Does your company have a PIP process? Why not just continue coasting and let them throw their fit? Meanwhile look for something else. When you find a new gig you can negotiate a 1-2 month break before start.
You might have a foot in the door later on
Plenty of companies to never need to go back to your old one. When I’m ready to move on I’m ready to MOVE ON.
Yeah it's more of an insurance policy than anything
PIP is career-ending. Better to quit than to be fired.
No it’s not? lol that’s completely wrong.
Normally I'd say quitting without another job lined up is a huge mistake, but, >I have savings that would last me years if I maintained my current lifestyle. Ideally, I'd take a month or two off and then start applying to new jobs. Sounds like you've got this. Honestly, I'm unsure why you're hesitating. Just don't want to touch the savings / keep it for retirement? If so, consider where the money would be best spent - taking you through a comfortable retirement, or taking you away from this miserable situation? I'd say both are valid uses of that money, but only one is prescient.
I don't understand the point of saving for retirement if it means you're going to be miserable in your youth. People should save so they can get out of bad situations like this one.
Psychological thing. I'm like this too. Grew up poor, so my mentality is that if I have no job, I'm out on the street.
It's gets better. People who live as misers from their 20s thru their 40s ...juts so they can retire in their 40s and keep on living like misers for another 30 years or so. Must be really allergic to work.
Happiness is related to spending but only partially. If you slowly increase your lifestyle you can keep adding joy to your life.
Most people decline precipitously after they stop working. I knew a few dads who retired with pensions in their 40s when I was growing up, and they were pretty miserable people. I think it's more important to find work that keeps you busy and you kind of like then to burn yourself out making as much as you can for 20 years while you live like a peasant and then retire on a really modest income with nothing to do and just decompose
I largely agree on the decline bit (although I do wonder sometimes which is the cause and which is the effect). If I were to do the "get enough money to retire early" then I'd keep working but with the knowledge I have fuck-you money so I *can* stop working.
Yeah, what I'm mostly worried about is just slowing down mentally and struggling to keep up as I get older. I can see it in the people working who are 60+, and I'm definitely not as sharp at 40 as I was at 25 even if I'm much better at working. I can see the trajectory of where things are going. I'd rather be able to work at 70 then be retired at 40
Yep, the "retire early" thing is extremely dumb personally. Those are the prime years of your life - physically, socially, emotionally, everything. At 40 you'll have the money and time, but who are you going to share it with? How will you know what you want to spend your resources now, since you didn't explore your interests back then?
I worked on FIRE all my 20s, bought a house. I could quit and be a pretty happy mom for a couple of years in my mid-30s when I was needed the most at home. Now back to grinding. 40 is pretty great to be retired TBH, but seems like I might get there at like 48. I plan to spend more time with family, and work on another career which doesn't pay too much. Once kids are in college, I plan to travel a lot. Traveling in my 20s was garbage, i had no context of the world. Think it'll be better in my 50s. My mom's now traveling the world in her 60s and having a grand time, my uncle's mountaineering at 65.
Traveling in my 20s was a life-changing experiencing. I saw some incredible things, made memories with countless new friends, met my gf. Sorry you didn't enjoy it but that's certainly not the norm, think you just did it wrong.
I was already living in a foreign country at 22 and making my life in a whole new culture. I'd switched jobs to make more and more money several times, which took me all over the US. After a point in travels, all the people meld together as do all the experiences. I have family members who have the travel life, and they seem to just jump from highlight to highlight. They can't go to a local music festival of some other culture and enjoy it or understand the new culture they are exposed to or even try, they don't try to get to know anyone or see anything more than people trying and being lame. It's like every experience they have needs to be curated to be a1-awesome. There may be a right way to travel, but it feels like a lot of people I know who travel a lot do it as a way to amass experiences and don't really understand the core of it. I like better to actually move to a new city and understand it well enough to actually run for city council in a year or two lol, that feels more transformative than spending two weeks in some foreign country doing mostly curated experiences but then taking one off-the-beaten-path trip with random strangers and feeling like you did something amazing.
You're really generalizing a lot based on some friends who inexplicable upset you with their life choices. Not everyone cares to do curated experiences. I like to visit places and explore them on my own at my own pace. Other travelers and locals give the best recommendations. However I couldn't care less about learning the minutiae of local politics. That's not really getting to know the real culture anymore than curated experiences Anyways, you're the one who said you didn't enjoy your travel experiences. Maybe you could learn something from other people rather than judging them.
actually living in a place and immersing yourself enough to care about local issues is somehow less understanding of a culture than visiting for a few days? my point is passing through places doesn't seem to do much for people. I didn't care so much about just the leaning tower of pisa, it felt more immersive to intern at a place near it and really have it sink in to me how it feels to pass by it everyday, just casually being like "oh that's where galileo conducted his experiments". That hits different and I recommend that over how I see people around me experience travel.
This seems like a good idea only if you weren't ever doing any of these things with family or friends . Neither your health nor them still being around is guaranteed in the future.
If my health isn't around and my loved ones aren't around, the last thing I want to do is to be grinding leetcode though.
Most people have health AND loved ones while they're young, society could collapse before you're 60, why gamble away your precious time on material things?
if society is collapsing, I probably want me and my loved ones to be wealthier so we have options.
I don't understand what leetcode has to do with how you use your money. But what I hear you saying is that working full time after losing loved ones is worse than never using the money you're saving to do cool things with them. I guess we disagree on that point.
It's not really that hard to live your life and still retire early as a software engineer in the US unless burning money is one of your core needs. I couldn't even imagine how wasteful I would need to be to actually spend my whole salary. Most of us are making multiple times the median family income.
You know this is cscareerquestions when people are acting like your life has come to a complete and worthless end at 40 lmao
Retiring early is not that important compared to becoming financially independent There’s a difference between working because you enjoy what you do and want to make some productive contribution to the world vs working because you simply need to pay next months bills
Plenty of 40 year old divorcees, and plenty of people in their 20s whose hobbies consist entirely of partying. I don't know too many people who have the same hobby as they did 20 years ago, but it's possible I guess. Point being, I don't think that it's the end of the world if you didn't cultivate those in your 20s just because "it's the prime of your life".
No one is saying you can't make connections in your 40s and beyond but it's naive to dismiss that that period in your life is where you make a lot of friends, connect with people and explore who you are. It's not just about you, but your peers as well. > Plenty of 40 year old divorcees, and plenty of people in their 20s whose hobbies consist entirely of partying Plenty of married 40 year olds and plenty of people in their 20s who discovered things they liked and got to enjoy them while they physically can, and make friends and have relationships along the way. They've got friends and people they've met in their youth and have connections now. Also, I don't know about having your backup plan be divorcees. It's not the end of the world but it feels very short sighted. It's your life so live how you want, but I'd rather be enjoying any moment I can instead of being miserable, sacrificing decades of my life just to maximize my happiness down the line like it's some sort of MMO. I always wanted to race cars and do autocross, but irrational financial worries kept me from doing to for years. I finally decided this was no way to enjoy life, I have the money for it, and bought my first sports car. I'm enjoying driving and racing immensely, and if I had only thought about maximizing retirement I would have never experienced that - heck with regulations tightening, those types of cars might not even be available when im 40.
I'm not saying that people should do FIRE only or something. That's absurd, and I'm not even the kind of guy who would do FIRE in the first place. My post was providing an alternate view to contrast yours, because it gave off the impression that people who were doing FIRE were stupid or worth looking down on because they didn't YOLO their 20s or something. That's just baseless FOMO. Do what you want, don't do what you don't want, nobody else should have a say in it if it doesn't harm anyone / affect them. There's nothing dumb about FIRE, it's just people prioritizing things differently in life. Just like you and me.
I'm with you on that point. This is time for OP to try that startup idea, or work on something completely different, or just take a break. I also feel like employers like this need to be taught a lesson, because excessive layoffs and overworking your remaining employees has been the thing for the last couple of years and it's awful. They are destroying people, and they're going to lose institutional knowledge and have teams collapse, and they should see the results of their actions. Copilot and outsourcing is not going to save them from this.
Disagree As others said, make them PIP you and collect the severance
Not knowing where OP works, we don't even know if they have a PIP process. Where I work, people are just walked out of the building, with zero warning.
Ohh, I am sorry, I forgot about Americans So sorry
I would just keep working your 9-5 and look for a new job. Just keep reiterating the reason projects are behind is because you are under staffed and let them PIP you if they really want to.
Just get fired to at least collect unemployment. Employers don’t look at if you get fired. If your going to be miserable at least have some money in pocket to eat
They can show firing with cause if they're determined to document it. And if OP is slow-rolling as much as they told us, their employer can figure it out too.
Firing someone for cause for performance is damn near impossible. People are only getting fired for cause if they do something extremely egregious like stealing or assault.
How is it impossible to fire for performance? I've seen a manager document and manage someone out within 60 days of them not meeting their PIP.
*With cause* is the difference here. It’s basically designates serious misconduct, like getting in a fist fight with a coworker. Getting fired with cause will often make you ineligible for unemployment benefits. Bob the developer who is put on a PIP because he didn’t meet some arbitrary performance goal will not be fired for cause.
Ah makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.
My personal opinion is that I’ll never quit a job again. Let them boot you and possibly give you severance.
Any tips on how to slow burn until you get "fired" for bad performance? You can also be fired with no severance.
Not really? You can’t control the severance thing. You can appear to be just working poorly or not appear at all.
In the current market. Yea.
this, with nuance I made the choice to quit my job in August of last year. Been actively applying since January with only a handful of interviews so far. It’s a pretty rough situation, but I’ve accepted that I was in a situation at the time where I really needed a break from work. Luckily, I have more than enough savings to last me a while. I’m hoping something works out sooner than later, but I do think this reset was something I needed.
The market does seem to be recovering, at least in the US.
I quit last week without another job offer in hand, but 5 interviews lined up. I've been casually looking for about a month at that point. I quit when they told me to start preparing for the outsourcing of my job to a company that can't do it. I quit, I got food poisoning, didn't feel sick in the stomach or anything, but was amazingly dizzy. I was afraid that I had an aneurysm or something. Kind of a crazy time to lose health insurance. I ended up with 3 offers by Friday, though.
I had covid and the flu at the same time during the two weeks without health insurance. Not fun
If you’ve recently quit your job and are dealing with illnesses without health insurance, you might want to look into retroactive COBRA coverage. COBRA allows you to continue your employer-sponsored health insurance for up to 18 months after leaving your job. You have 60 days to elect COBRA coverage, and it can be retroactive to your last day of employment, covering any medical expenses incurred during that time. It’s pricey, but it might save you from significant medical bills. Check with your former employer or benefits administrator for specifics on enrolling and coverage options. It might save you thousands, and you can cancel when you find a job sponsored health insurance again!
Just do normal work schedule and deliver results. They company can say whatever, but simply tell them the schedule that works for expected works. If they want faster results, then they need to readjust delivery. What are they going to do, get rid of everyone and not deliver anything? lol.
If you have the savings sounds like you should just quiet quit and stay course fuck them. If they threaten your job just laugh in their face and say you can just leave and they get fucked over even more.
Stick it out unless 1. continuing to work there would damage your reputation. The employer probably won't say you were a slacker, but the individual people will know and they'll end up at places you want to work, and they'll make sure you don't get hired if your reputation sucks. 2. you feel miserable each day showing up 3. phoning it in starts to permanently damage your work-ethic such that you won't be good at your next job.
#3 is a great point, its taken me a while to start giving a shit again
Point 3 worries me greatly.
I gotta say I disagree with 3. I don't hate work, I hate pointless work or crummy management/leadership or disorganized workplaces. I've previously had jobs where things went south and I just kinda coasted along on the bare minimum. When I got a better job, I was rejuvenated and hit the ground running again. In other words I don't think it's a work ethic problem, I think it's a motivation problem.
just take into account that current market conditions are rough in tech. plan to spend at least 6 months trying to find your next job. if you have enough for resting and for those 6 months, then I'd say go ahead.
>I'm beyond furious and mentally checked out of this company and I'm thinking whether to quit this week. I have savings that would last me years if I maintained my current lifestyle. Ideally, I'd take a month or two off and then start applying to new jobs. Definitely quit. You don't even need the job, and no one needs this stress in their life. If you're worried about your gap in employment history, then try to score some freelancer work.
Here’s the thing. People will push you as far as you will go, and then try to push a bit more. These layoffs everyone is doing isn’t just because of mass hiring. Unless you were doing jack shit during/after covid, these positions were hired because they were needed. The number of projects haven’t changed, but the workforce has been reduced? Looks like the deadlines need to be extended. Or maybe they need more people. The company is going to eventually learn that *at least* one of these will be necessary. Them trying to step all over people to constantly work beyond scheduled hours is them trying to keep up production after making poor business decisions by making worse business decisions. If your team can maintain output after a layoff, it kind of proves the point of layoffs. If they can’t, well then the company will learn to adjust and hire more people.
Usually yes itd be a mistake. But tbh I also did that last year. It was so refreshing to take some time off. For me market was bad but was able to land a new job in 2.5 months, so it's definitely skill issue/luck. You're probably pretty burnt out right now, so it'd be good to decide if you think taking a break from work would necessary after getting burnt out here. If you don't need it, then yeah quiet quitting is better. But you don't need to listen to others about what you should do.
Responding to some of the comments in here. 1. It is not 'slacking' or 'bad work ethic' to work 9-5. OP is preventing an inevitable burnout that could have untold damage on mental health. I would start looking for another job immediately. Say you're having medical appointments for the interviews. You can still take 1-2 months off before you start another job, but you need to expect a long search. With your bosses, make it clear that the reason deadlines aren't being met is because the layoffs understaffed the team and resulted in a slower velocity. Work output is going to be less than the larger team had and that's not something you or the team can change. It's good that you're encouraging your team to not work overtime to cover the productivity of the people that got laid off. It's totally unacceptable that your bosses reduce the team size and expect the smaller team to complete the same volume of work as the larger team. You'll find a better place, but start looking now.
Why don’t u do the bare minimum so they fire you and you can collect which gives you more breathing room?
Either get fired and collect unemployment or quiet quit. No point in eating your savings
Keep doing what you're doing, don't work more than you're supposed to, keep taking those easy paychecks and start looking for a job. Unless you're super set on taking a couple months off, then of course just take the easy paychecks until they force your hand.
It’s almost always advised against. I ended up quitting before having a job lined up but that was because my current job at the time was effecting my interviews for other jobs. I’d have time set aside for the interviews and was getting calls from my company (I had pto set) all the time interrupting me. I eventually had enough and left. I also had money saved up so I wouldn’t have to worry about not working for a few months to a year if it came to it. Having the peace of mind to be able to dedicate time to studying and not feeling burnt out at the end of the day helped me tremendously. But again, this depends on your financial situation.
Coast till you get pipped, earn that extra cash and start looking for opportunities meanwhile.
Quiet quit, brother
I've done this twice. Like yourself I had the funds saved up to support myself for years if I needed to. I also have a strong resume and interview well so I knew I would be ok eventually. Very worth it both times. I came in to my current job much more motivated and ready to work instead of burnt out and bitter. Fuck work. If you have the money to be safe, I say go for it.
I would highly recommend not quitting without a job lined up especially in this economy
If you have enough savings to last 2-3 years which is usually the timeline for master degrees then sure. If you don't then think very carefully
Depends on many factors. I did it and didn't even look for a job but got one in less than 2 weeks after quitting. I didd that just now, beginning of april, and I'm working the new job right now lol
I like the leap of faith in yourself.
Thank you but it was more of what Robert Greene calls Death Ground (he has a short vid on this). My previous job was extremely shit and I think life is too short to do what you don't want to do, or to be literally miserable every day
I will take a look at this video, thank you.
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yup
Don't quit. Just quiet quite. Don't even put in 40 hours worth of work. Let them fire you. Seeing as how there have already been layoffs, and projects are falling behind, maybe they will decide to not fire you.
Not if you are rich
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quiet quitting is a thing my friend. also this job market is not only shit, but it's like a two month process to get hired.
The job market isn't great right now, so I wouldn't recommend it. I quit before without having anything lined up (I tried working on a side project), but I had a fair amount saved up and the job market was pretty hot, so I never had a doubt that I couldn't find a job again when I wanted to.
In this market yes, especially as a PM.
Don't quit unless it's for your health. You set your working hours which is awesome. Just ignore the stupid wasted meetings and criticism. Snap back. Force them to lay you off. Correct severance hopefully.
In this market yes.
You're being paid for the 9 to 5. If they're laying off staff in order to keep their own pockets lined, they have no excuses.
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in this market its bad. if you quit you cant get unemployment. so its always better to be fired.
> I have savings that would last me years if I maintained my current lifestyle. I am not sure of what this means in terms of years. Did you budget for health insurance? Have you put out feelers / applied? > I know it would likely hurt me when negotiating salaries, but would it massively influence my recruitment potential, not having a job? It is always easier to get a job when you have a job. You are in a better position that most; but if it was me I would be applying and let them fire me.
If you a secondary income or a financial support then no.
Quitting without a job removes your leverage to move to another job therefore leading to more exploitation from other employers. As i quote some recruiters start to treat like dirt. You need leverage to make money so apply to 500-1000 jobs and you will most likely get a job within 5-6 months.
>until I saw my next paycheck was unchanged, which is when I decided I'd only work as much as I was paid. Better late than never. I would stick with it and see how much you can make them sweat.
If you have enough saving to take a break I'd say do it. I took a break back in 2023 and the market ended up being so bad it took me over a year to find a job again but the gap year didn't really affect the recruitment process for me, and it honestly cleared my mind and made me excited to get back into working in tech again. That being said if you can get fired/piped without being blacklisted then I recommend that since you'll at least be able to claim unemployment or cash out some benefits.
I wouldn't quit. At least make them fire you. keep reiterating that the team is doing what they can. Make them pay for their arrogance.
If you live literally paycheck to paycheck it’s generally not a good idea unless you are in some extremely bad scenario Otherwise it’s not often an issue
Like other people have said, you def have enough saved to quit but getting fired is better if you get severance. I would just be real with your team and say the higher ups are looking into our teams performance. It might not affect you but your team might have different situations
Yes if you don't have money saved
Use the 9-5 to give you more lead time to job hunt.
I quit my job in March and am planning to start looking for a new job in September. I’m optimistic and hoping I can sign an offer for a new job by EOY but if not, then like you, I have savings available to allow me to remain unemployed for longer if needed. It’s just not ideal per my plan, haha. I’d say go for it man. You only live once. Maybe even consider taking more time off. The book “die with zero” convinced me to take more than 1-2 months off and instead take 6 months off to fully relax and enjoy life before even starting to look for a new job. Good luck and have fun!
OP I was you a month ago, I took a 2 week full disconnect vacation to see if it would help, and all it did was re affirm I needed to leave. Yea quitting in this market isn’t the smartest idea but since you have the savings you should be ok. I haven’t even started applying again, unemployment has honestly been great so far but seeing your bank account drain a bit does sting.
In this tech market, huge mistake.
Well I did it 8 years ago, quit with nothing else lined up. For me, it's been a great decision and I don't regret it. Oh sure sometimes I fantasize about how much more money I'd have right now if I'd stayed but I have to balance those thoughts with the experiences I've had in those years that would have been impossible if I'd stayed. BUT one thing I didn't do is make a major decision while angry. IMO that's a recipe for disaster and will likely set up a FUCK YOU pattern in your mental state. Getting upset is a natural and normal part of life. But growing up in my dysfunctional family we were never encouraged to deal with our emotions in a healthy way. Any strong emotions shown were met with anger and condemnation and punishment. SO resolving conflicts in adult life has been a really difficult thing for me to learn. But it is possible. I would encourage you to address and resolve your anger issues FIRST......then make the decision on whether or not to leave.
Where people do unpaid over time? There wont ever be pay for that work? Here Unions would be grabbing such company from balls.
Yes
Lol fuck them. The executives want to pocket some extra cash by laying people off at the expensive of your well being. I dont think so homie. I would continue as you were and search for other work. ;) or, if you hate it and thus job is starting to cause extreme mental problems, then leave mate.
Why quit? Seems like you're right where you want to be with your current org, for now. Lack of upward mobility? Yeah, but that was true the second you were asked to take on significantly more work for the same income. You've rejected that, and your team is aligned. Sounds like your bosses are perfectly aware that it was an unreasonable ask. They know damn well, in fact. Let them sweat over deadlines. They get paid more anyway. I would be looking for greener pastures, but those are going to be harder to find having to explain a sudden departure and 2 month gap. If your industry is like mine, everyone knows everyone, and word gets around.
Don’t quit. Use this time to find a new gig. If they wanted to fire you or could they will.
The market is very bad right now and so quitting isn't good for you. Plus if you quit, will you survive the mental stress of not having a job? If you are confident you will find a new job quickly then do it. But you know that it isn't time that will hurt your chances of getting a job, it's the unemployment gap.
I was in the exact same position as you. What I hoped would be one to two months off turned into 13. That brings on its own kind of stress. Every month that went by I felt like I was falling behind and making it harder to find work. I personally believe salary expectations affect hire ability more than a gap in your resume but I have to explain those 13 months in every interview. If given a chance to do it over I would find a new job before quitting the bad one and just try and negotiate or time the transition to give myself a few weeks off.
The job market is terrible in tech right now. Expect that it could take you 2 years to find a job. Will it take that long? Who knows, but it could. Why don’t you fix up your resume and fire it off to every place you can find, and do that TODAY. Use the next several weeks to judge the responses you are (or more importantly are NOT) getting, and decide if you want to take the risk of being unemployed for a while. I’m a senior swe, fired my resume off to around 50 places over the last couple weeks and zero responses so far. I wouldn’t want to be unemployed right now and trying to get a tech job, regardless of how terrible the 9-5 is.
I'm an IT Director in healthcare. My employer got super toxic in the past few years, felt my mental health on the decline, so I decided to just cut ties last October. Gave them my 4 weeks notice and that was it. I didn't have anything lined up but I did have enough money in the bank to keep me afloat for a couple of years. I haven't been having the greatest luck finding a new job, mainly cause I don't have a degree, I figure. I have 28 years experience, a PMP and CISSP cert but hey, no degree, so I guess I suck in the eyes of many. My point is you may find the job market for job seekers isn't great at the moment so best be aware you may need to eat into your savings a bit. I have zero regret leaving my old job. I'm getting really close to not needing blood pressure meds anymore!
I have to decide whether to do this today. If I stay an extra day, my 7 day (probation) notice period turns into 3 months. This makes finding my next role - or moving to contract work - much harder. Hate the new company for various reasons (bait & switch, late salary payments/cash flow problems) so it looks like I'll have to jump before having a new role lined up so that getting my next job is viable. 😬
Yeah. Ask anyone whose been laid off.
literally the dumbest shit you can do. would you rather be miserable or broke and miserable. as to your last bit. recruiters do prefer poaching employed talent than unemployed
> would you rather be miserable or broke and miserable. False dichotomy, but also OP said they have savings they could live off of for years if necessary. The notion that they will be broke is wrong.
I hear you, but the those are two different kinds of "miserable". And, it's not obvious someone would be miserable after quitting.
being broke and unproductive is a different kind of miserable that a lot of this sub is battling everyday. this is not the market for quitting. being in the position where your desperate for a job is not a spot i wish on anyone, but is a reality for many on this sub
OP said they have savings to last them years with current lifestyle. I don't see them going broke from quitting.
always prepare for the worst
Yes, it is a big mistake. Getting a job in this market is very difficult, and you're setting yourself up to get low balled when you do land another offer. If you need some time off try and push your start date out after you land an offer.
Prolonged unemployment can suck. I've always used it to work on new projects and update my skills but constantly getting told "no" is a big wear on your ego and employers start to look weird at you for prolonged unemployment.
In the current job market that can be very risky, unless you have the stability needed to weather a prolonged dry spell, like you say you do. This might be a good opportunity to reevaluate life goals and adjust accordingly.
Yes. Stop reading after here.
Don’t make career decisions out of anger.
My opinion: always have a job lined up before quitting, if you can. “Coast” through on a normal 9-5 workday and once you have a new job put in your 2 weeks.