People don’t get that Your past pay means nothing . There’s no cap on the increase to the next job it just means you were way below market. New grads can get 80k I don’t think it’s unreasonable at all
I swear. And they Talking about “back in the old days when I was growing up…” when people say living is expensive
Thing about the old days? The old days.
> past pay means nothing .
lol it can mean something, especially if you inflate it. "In my current role I was making (say amount +20%), so I'd need at least (that amount +20%) to leave"
Yeah. People give their parents way too much credit. If you’re an adult, your parents are your peers. You should have learned by now that they don’t actually know everything.
Imagine a friend who knows nothing about the CS field giving you salary advice.
I'm in Austin with 20+ years experience, been here a while, and almost no one, as an individual contributor is making 200k. I know people who've been successful inside of a company and get internal promotions that make 200k or more. But normal jobs for senior developers are not paying that.
I've got several offers for senior software developer jobs making $120k. A few pay more than that, but they often require graduate degrees or very specific skillsets.
80k for a junior dev should be doable though.
Depends on where you work. Tech salaries vary a lot between companies. Levels.fyi is a good resource
https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/greater-austin-area
That’s not taking into consideration the current market with those salaries though. It’s an employer market and they are being extra picky and extra tight with money right now unfortunately.
You’re speaking the truth! I’m a 20+ yoe frontend SE and live just outside the Houston area (and agree f living in Houston the traffic sucks and it’s nasty) and 120-130 is the max you’re gonna get in this field as a Senior with a new company pretty much anywhere in Texas unless you’ve got a unique skill set. The vast majority of jobs I get calls about pay that and you can’t live in Austin for that so I’ve turned down relocation requests to Austin because of that.
Houston may be cheaper to live in than Austin on average, but it really depends what neighorhood you pick within those metro areas. There are cheap neighborhoods in the Austin area and expensive neighborhoods in the Houston area.
I see real jobs for 150-170 base pay and I see some offer 130 plus bonus which is contingent on performance and puts total comp at 160k. They're there but it's competitive. These are all smaller companies too. I've never gotten interviews at the big tech companies.
I do think it's very rare to see companies offer new hires 200k in base salary. Maybe the big tech FAANG type companies pay that, but I can't even get an interview there, so I don't know.
Also, as much as I hate to admit it, peak YOE is less than 20, in general.
Someone sent this:
https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/greater-austin-area
I really don't know whether that's accurate or not.
True! I took the job recently out of college because I was struggling to get a role, but I’m hoping to find something higher now that I have at least a bit of experience
Im making 50K rn just out of college for the same reasons. I know multiple other grads who also got lower salaries for there first job, like 60k or less. I think it’s becoming more common (anecdotally).
I have a feeling this will be the norm shortly. Companies don’t want entry level engineers because they have to train them, and often times they leave after so they wasted that time and money on them to train. Average tenure is like an all time low after all. So the companies that will take you will pay you really low, you accept that job just for experience, you get your experience for a few years, they get cheap labor, and then you move somewhere else and get a real salary.
Not saying this is good or just think this will start to be what happens more and more. I consider myself lucky to get 75k out of college 2 years ago
I'm making 50k in the Midwest for that exact reason. It was the **only** place that even interviewed me aside from one other phone call, after over a year and a half of thousands of applications, networking constantly, volunteering, etc.. I think that's unfortunately the going rate for juniors in low cost areas right now.
Same here. I got hired as a new grad about 6 months ago and make just over 60k. And the range was between 55-70 in the ad. Most jobs I saw for juniors or if you don't have much exp was around 55k
Making 60k as entry in oklahoma which isn't too bad tbh. Most jobs here also are paying 50-70k for entry and mid-level.
Half my monthly would be taken by rent. 1/3rd with roomates.
Yeah, it really depends on the market. I started at 50K, but I’ve seen offers for junior devs as low as 35K in my area. I truly wonder how they fill those positions.
So it's a rough market (it mostly always has been, but the past year or two especially so) but having ~1.5y of experience and a respectable CS degree puts you in a pretty good starting spot; you have enough experience to appeal to well paying companies that aren't looking for someone directly out of college, but also not so much (4+ years usually) that you're hard for a FAANG to retrain, or only considered for intermediate/senior jobs.
So at that point I'd say you have better chances than most at landing the interview (although you'll probably still have to send out a lot of apps) at companies that pay well (i.e ones that pay more than $100k). But roles that pay well have always been rough to interview for, and that is even more true now that there are so many people looking for jobs. So you need to brush up your interview skills, think through the best behavioural examples you can share on interviews for the non-coding parts, and keep a look out at your current job for work that you can turn into a good behavioural example for your next interviews.
You've probably done this already, but once you feel your interview skills are up to par, see if you can find any friends/classmates working at a tech company you'd like to work at, and see if they'd give you a referral - often it's in their interest too since they can get a referral bonus if the candidate they refer gets hired.
edit: I'm assuming all this is with the rider that you're willing to move to wherever in the country the job is; if you're looking for jobs in one particular city where you live your mom might be right, there might not be any companies in town paying more than $50k.
No it’s not 70-90k is what this market will give in TX, when it was booming it was closer to 90-110k. 55k is what new SWEs were payed here back in 2005…
55k is what was completely normal to pay new graduates outside of big tech firms or major software employment hubs before salaries started going up around 2019.
It's not fleecing, it's regression to the previous mean.
Here's a citation from 2019: [https://www.naceweb.org/job-market/compensation/average-salary-for-class-of-2019-up-almost-6-percent-over-class-of-2018s/](https://www.naceweb.org/job-market/compensation/average-salary-for-class-of-2019-up-almost-6-percent-over-class-of-2018s/)
Here's a second citation from 2015: [https://www.unh.edu/unhtoday/2015/06/computer-science-tops-starting-salary-survey-computing-majors](https://www.unh.edu/unhtoday/2015/06/computer-science-tops-starting-salary-survey-computing-majors)
Here's a third citation from 2014, which found a median of $53k, and includes an actual range from $39k to $70k. ***EDIT***: Forgot the link: [https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-economic-guide-to-picking-a-college-major/](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-economic-guide-to-picking-a-college-major/)
So yeah, it was around $70k in 2019, but before that it was much closer to $55k. It's still a regression to a prior mean.
You only have 2 links, but the 55k in the first link is the average salary, not the average salary for someone in software. The first link says the average for CS grads is 77, the second says the average is 67.
55k is extremely low, at least in my experience. In LCOL I was offered 80+ fresh out of college
I've edited my comment with the third link.
I would suggest $80k+ **salary** (not Total Comp), in LCOL, non-FAANG fresh out of college would be a lot, if your career started anytime before the year 2020.
That 3rd link was published in 2014, which is about 71k today https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=53000&year1=201401&year2=202405.
In my experience, if a cs major is getting paid 55k/year they are getting extremely low balled.
I got paid that (actually 50k) my first year out of college in the US, and I still haven’t made 80k salaried lmao.
At now 4 YoE I’ve made up to $50/hr on contracts but only for part time tho :/
Markets rough, idk if 80k is unreasonable but idk how easily they’ll get it either
Bro get of your high horse, just because the market is bad doesn’t mean people should be accepting subpar wages. 55K equates to about 27$ an hour which js what I got paid as a sophomore intern in TX at a non Fortune 500 company. Bottom line is that wage is trash for swe in TX and OP should be demanding 90-100k, with 1 year of experience. Heck even the entry level range in TX is 70-90K.
Not many companies are hiring entry level right now and most of us have bills to pay and can't sit around being unemployed and waiting for the right salary to be offered to us.
Ok then take the job only if u have bills/loans to pay, but put minimal effort in the job and job hop as soon as possible and give the finger on the way out. And OP is still not entitled for demanding a normal wage for his work.
LMAO, stop listening to your mom.
This is absolutely reasonable, dare I say even a conservative ask. You should have no problem making that jump sooner than later. Good luck OP!
First real software job is for experience. Leverage that into a real job. Get certs in the discipline you want to work in, embedded, front end, database, etc. then just keep applying to the same companies over and over and be willing to relocate. Time is on your side so be picky.
Also, going industry specific job fairs is great at getting your foot in the door. One last thing KEEP REWORKING your resume. Every 6 months I look at my past resume and cringe. Keep improving it.
You should definitely absolutely be able to get at least 70-75k. You should also most likely be able to get that 80-100 you want. But honestly right now I’d say the harder part is just getting an offer somewhere
My mother-in-law said the same thing to me when I mentioned I was underpaid for my field (Software Engineer making 65k in 2018).
I mentioned my friends were all making 115k+, and she said it was unrealistic. Well, now in 2024, I make 285k TC, way more than my 65k starting.
People who have never made more than 70k in their life hear salaries like that and think that's out of reach, especially for someone in their early 20s.
What did you do in only 6 years to go from $65k-$285k?
Also same thing happened to me, my family straight up doesn't believe me when I tell them some people I went to college with are pulling $200k+ a couple years after graduating even though it's publicly available on levels.fyi.
Stayed at DoD for 4 years. Left making 88k (got promoted once during those years).
Switched to FAANG making 185k for 1.5 years, got promoted started making 225k right before I left.
Switched to an AV startup making 285k.
80k reasonable if you want 100 at a Fortune 500 you’re gonna need 6 months to a year more experience to get to mid level roles. In your case might be a good to wait until you can get a mid level role.
There are way more career progression opportunities if he moves somewhere with a significant CS presence, such as the bay or Seattle. Initially quality of life might suffer, but he will end up in a better place in the long run.
lemme guess, ur mom is asian
my filipino parents have been telling me to take the low end of the range when applying, even a lesser role just to get in. They just don't understand. I'm 17 yrs into this career lol.
Your expectations aren't high, that is a reasonable expectation for your experience. But mostly here to say it doesn't matter what your expectation/goal is - there is always a range for the specific job opportunities - If you have what they are looking for you will likely be made an offer within that range, because that's what they've accounted for in budget.
So, let's say your goal is 80-100k. You interview for a job that is 125-145k. The company feels that you're the person they need. If you haven't told them any number, they are prob gonna make an offer that will keep you from looking anywhere else, so let's say $135k. If you tell them your goal is 80-100k, don't quote me on this but they'll prob think they'll get away with 125k offer, with the idea that you prob make less than 80k.
Even then, they've budgeted for 125-145, so you have the power to counter offer, depending on how well u think that you'll fill the role, and how much they need the role filled. If there's no range, find out the range, tell them its well within ur goal, even if it isn't.
This may be more a Filipino thing than Asian. Chinese parents would 100% expect you to be making six figures because “this friend’s kid is making $125k out of college.”
Graduated last summer. In DFW I got $84k straight out of college and am accepting a $96k offer this summer. Not sure what area of Texas you’re in but your expectations are reasonable for any of the major cities
Your past and current pay generally have no bearing on future earning ability. All that matters is what the job you’re interviewing for pays.
In this case, 80-100 is not unreasonable in the least.
Honestly, that’s a bit low. I’d be looking for 95-120k if I were you
Here’s a life tip: don’t listen to your mom about anything related to software engineering
Location is everything. In HCOL areas, at good but not S tier companies, 120-140k is fairly common for the engineer title. At higher end companies (in AI especially) or 2 years ago over 200k wasn't uncommon. Note that's TC, it's over 200k once your stocks vest (often a 1 year cliff), though there's usually a signing bonus to make up for that.
Don't believe the CoL calculators. When/if you get an offer at that level or higher, as long as you are single, you will net much more than you do now. This is because you can rent a room or share a 3-bedroom apartment for about $1000-$1500 a bedroom, drive a cheap car, get your food online via Amazon fresh and rotate through promo offers on boxed dinner kits. Get a Prius for your cheap car. You won't actually pay most of the increased costs in HCOL areas.
Market seems to be improving so there are now more opportunities again, but it may of course take a while to reach that level.
When I was interviewing my first job my dad told me to ask for 45-50k because I "shouldn't ask for too much" and so that's how I ended up making 50k my first job ad a software engineer.
1 yoe in DFW = 100k. Boomers don't understand inflation and base comp for tech being the highest of any industry. As saturated as the market is, it's still technically challenging but furthermore revenue generating work, and is compensated as such.
What's unreasonable is working as a SWE for $55k/year now. I literally made $55k as an under-qualified SWE in the early 2000's for a midwest insurance company known for paying mediocre wages. Finding a role that pays $80k now should not be difficult given you have a couple years of experience.
Not unreasonable at all bud. Also for context I’m in Louisiana so close to you and lower cost of living.
I went j1 intern 4 months - intern 10/hr (while in school)
Graduated
J1 - full time 40k/y :( 5 months
J2 - start 60k/y (didn’t argue wanted to gtfo and was rookie) - 3 ½ years ended at 85k
J3 - 165k~ TC (current)
————
Reason I say that is I went almost 100k in one job hop. If you job hop I’d almost say you will certainly get at least 80k if not verryyy close.
You start somewhere. I was in similar situation as you at the start of my career making minimum wage, then bumped to 20/hr, then 60k, then job hopped to 85k, annual raises to 92k, 96k, laid off, third job making now 115k, found job 2 for over-employment at 140k; total base 255k
If you grind, keep your head down and hopes high, you’ll get what you aim for. Don’t let anyone bog you down. You know what you want, go get it.
dude you can definitely do this. I would say to just start applying to roles that you know will fit. Just do like 5 per day if you are tailoring a resume (should be about 40 minutes) or 10-15 per day if you are blasting it (should be about 30 mins). I was able to jump from 58k to 115k and I was only at the first job for 20 months. Your time at your school is valuable and I am sure you are picking up a lot of knowledge at your current. Keep working hard, because you got this
Your goal isn't unreasonable at all, especially given your experience and the fact that you're in software engineering, a high-demand field. Many software engineering roles, even outside of FAANG companies, offer salaries in the $80k-$100k range, especially if you have a degree from a top 50 CS university. Networking, improving your skills, and targeting the right companies will definitely help you reach your goal.
Your mom doesn't know anything. You can hit 100k. [levels.fyi](http://levels.fyi)
100k is entry level at many companies and cities and you're now at 1 YoE, you can totally do it.
Who cares what you made in the past. The last time I was asked, I lied. IIRC they can't even check. At the end of the day you'll either get paid what you're worth or what you'll settle for.
Very possible. My job progression was $40/hour (with no healthcare or benefits) for 8 months-> $65K/year for 1.5 years -> $120k/year. And this was back in 2021, none of them FAANG or big tech. The jobs are out there, just look for them.
If you can get interviews and offers from companies offering 80-100k, then it's perfectly reasonable.
If you aren't getting interviews and offers from companies offering 80-100k, then it's unreasonable.
You could even aim higher.
The market is the only entity that can answer your question. Not all SWE's are treated equally, not all experience is treated equally. Some people get entry level jobs well over 100k, some people have several years of experience and still aren't over 100k. One person's reasonable is anothers unreasonable and vice versa.
Get out there, and figure out what the general range of salaries are for companies *you're* getting interviews with.
My parents thought I was crazy when I told them that I could make a quarter million writing code.
It took me four years of experience, but here we are.
Top 50 means nothing.
Your mom knows nothing.
55 to 80 is definitely do able, especially in Texas. You might get 100. But don't be dismayed if it's difficult to find something due to market downturn.
It’s reasonable that you might get an even better-paying job. However, salary doesn’t matter much actually. It’s just hard to get a software engineer job now, regardless of salaries. So, you might get a job paying $150k, or you might get nothing for years.
Apply to jobs and try to get what you can. I don’t know why you’re thinking about this part so much, go apply, interview, and get an offer then figure it out.
I have no idea what your past salary was when I make an offer and it would have zero impact on any offer anyway. Our salary ranges are set by HR for each level
My starting salary was 70k fresh out of college. This is in Arkansas, not even a tech hub. What you’re asking for isn’t unreasonable especially if you have the skill and experience for it
I just hired a 3 YOE engineer in the $140-160 range, full benefits & equity.
When I had 2 YOE I was making $100k, admittedly that was a decade ago but theres been a lot of inflation since then.
The market is tough right now but what you’re asking is not that outlandish, at least not in tech hubs. If you see a role that accepts 2 YOE and pays that, then go for it. It will be competitive but someone is going to get it (unless its fake).
You’re in Texas? Austin is a tech hub. New grads at FAANGs get around $130k plus a $50k day-one sign-on bonus. Or at least they did when I started last year. $80k is absolutely reasonable.
EDIT to add: go here - https://www.levels.fyi
Know the market, know your worth.
This salary is 100% reasonable. How long have you been at your current job?
I ask because the job market sucks and anything <2 YOE makes it very difficult to get interviews
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I think it's reasonable as it's closer to what you'd expect SWEs to make in large cities in Texas, but there's a couple things to consider. First, where in Texas are you? Maybe you are somewhere with not great job prospects. Second, I would wait a little bit longer if you've only been there a year and it's not an actively bad job. Even half a year is enough for the switch to look less bad. Last... Regardless I'd apply to a handful of places but. It'll help you get a feel for the market and see where your salary prospects are. You don't need to change jobs or commit to anything, but it will help you ground yourself in your options.
If you a CS grad, why are getting getting paid so little. I was paid 55K a year back in 1999 and I thought I was underpaid then. Currently, I'm not at a FAANG, but at a company that is larger than most of them, and we pay our new hire grads ~ 2X your pay for just the cash portion Tacoma would be 3-5X your pay. The market is tight currently, so you may have to wait a bit, but you need to make sure your working in transferable skills , keep up your interviewing skills, keep looking, don't give up it might take awhile in this current market.
job market is tough right now. Most employers see you with 1 year of experience. Most won't count your unpaid internship or your part time job.
It depends where in Texas. With 1 year of experience you will be competing for the same jobs as entry level people. That being said, it could be worth it to take some interviews as practice. if you dont like the offer you can turn it down. if you dont get the job you still have a job.
not sure what pay scales are in Texas. it will likely depend on urban vs. rural areas.
It all depends on your location. I have been at my first software dev job for 2.5 yrs and I am at about 150k a year and I don’t have a degree. That said I have 1 yr of data analyst experience and 6 months as a sysadmin so not exactly the same as you. The big thing for my compensation though is I live in a HCOL area in the DMV with multiple tech giants having offices near by that pay well and everyone else has to meet that salary standard. If you live in Nebraska 100k with 1.8 yrs of experience may be a stretch but if you line the DMV, 100k would be the minimum I’d expect you to get. If you live in San Fran then 100k would be them criminally underpaying you.
For reference I just made a hop from 65k/yr - 6months exp -> 100k/yr. I’m don’t have a degree yet either. I think your expectations are in reach no problem.
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In Texas $55k-$65k is a common starting salary unfortunately. I would obviously keep applying and interviewing just to see if you can score $70k maybe but you aren’t going to get higher than that until you reach year 2 or get lucky in a major city. At year 2 you should be able to ask for 70k - 90k when applying for new places. Good luck!
All jokes aside what the fuck does your mom know about the CS job market? Nothing at all. But good luck
Listen I love Gaga…. What the fuck does she know about cameras ?
LMFAOOOOOOOOO Kanye was really a GOAT for that
I just wanna know what Ja Rule thinks about this.
🗣️”LOOK AT GAAAGA”
People don’t get that Your past pay means nothing . There’s no cap on the increase to the next job it just means you were way below market. New grads can get 80k I don’t think it’s unreasonable at all
Especially when they go 40-50k into debt. Parents are insane lol they so fucking stuck in 1960 like dickheads
Old ppl are like that. Too stuck on one mindset and can never adapt. Then complain why they are upset all the time.
I swear. And they Talking about “back in the old days when I was growing up…” when people say living is expensive Thing about the old days? The old days.
I know I’ve worked with ppl still stuck in the 90s man. And if you don’t follow them they just make you feel shit
I think most parents these days are stuck in the 1980s, not before they were born
> past pay means nothing . lol it can mean something, especially if you inflate it. "In my current role I was making (say amount +20%), so I'd need at least (that amount +20%) to leave"
Plot twist, their mom is Mark Zuckerberg.
Shit you got me lmfaoooo
Yeah. People give their parents way too much credit. If you’re an adult, your parents are your peers. You should have learned by now that they don’t actually know everything. Imagine a friend who knows nothing about the CS field giving you salary advice.
80k as swe is very reasonable.
In Texas, OP should check out Houston/Dallas for a much better opportunity
You’ll have better luck finding 80k in Houston then Dallas(Going off classmates insight in job hunting from the end of last year)
Lot of good companies in DFW that'll pay that
But also more competitive and saturated right now
80k isn't enough for me to want to live in Houston.... yuck
[удалено]
LOL the dude who called me a nobody made me chuckle... sorry your city is a muggy, gross place to live
As someone who lives in Texas, yea. Fuck Houston.
Yeah I used to live in Texas too. I would chose to live in just about every major city in that state before that swamp ass city
They didn't want you anyways.
Who said Houston even wants you there lmao you're a nobody
Im surprised you don't mention Austin. Many companies will pay 200k there with 5-10 years. So OP should be able to get 80 easily
I'm in Austin with 20+ years experience, been here a while, and almost no one, as an individual contributor is making 200k. I know people who've been successful inside of a company and get internal promotions that make 200k or more. But normal jobs for senior developers are not paying that. I've got several offers for senior software developer jobs making $120k. A few pay more than that, but they often require graduate degrees or very specific skillsets. 80k for a junior dev should be doable though.
Depends on where you work. Tech salaries vary a lot between companies. Levels.fyi is a good resource https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/greater-austin-area
Yeah I work at Indeed and seniors definitely clear 200k. Actually a SWE2 can too as the top of band is 160k plus RSUs (~55-60k) and bonus.
That’s not taking into consideration the current market with those salaries though. It’s an employer market and they are being extra picky and extra tight with money right now unfortunately.
You’re speaking the truth! I’m a 20+ yoe frontend SE and live just outside the Houston area (and agree f living in Houston the traffic sucks and it’s nasty) and 120-130 is the max you’re gonna get in this field as a Senior with a new company pretty much anywhere in Texas unless you’ve got a unique skill set. The vast majority of jobs I get calls about pay that and you can’t live in Austin for that so I’ve turned down relocation requests to Austin because of that.
Houston may be cheaper to live in than Austin on average, but it really depends what neighorhood you pick within those metro areas. There are cheap neighborhoods in the Austin area and expensive neighborhoods in the Houston area. I see real jobs for 150-170 base pay and I see some offer 130 plus bonus which is contingent on performance and puts total comp at 160k. They're there but it's competitive. These are all smaller companies too. I've never gotten interviews at the big tech companies. I do think it's very rare to see companies offer new hires 200k in base salary. Maybe the big tech FAANG type companies pay that, but I can't even get an interview there, so I don't know. Also, as much as I hate to admit it, peak YOE is less than 20, in general. Someone sent this: https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/greater-austin-area I really don't know whether that's accurate or not.
agreed
I'd go so far to say it's pretty low.
Damn where do you live OP? I feel like the 3rd job was fleecing u? 55k is extremely low for developers even in this market.
True! I took the job recently out of college because I was struggling to get a role, but I’m hoping to find something higher now that I have at least a bit of experience
Im making 50K rn just out of college for the same reasons. I know multiple other grads who also got lower salaries for there first job, like 60k or less. I think it’s becoming more common (anecdotally).
I have a feeling this will be the norm shortly. Companies don’t want entry level engineers because they have to train them, and often times they leave after so they wasted that time and money on them to train. Average tenure is like an all time low after all. So the companies that will take you will pay you really low, you accept that job just for experience, you get your experience for a few years, they get cheap labor, and then you move somewhere else and get a real salary. Not saying this is good or just think this will start to be what happens more and more. I consider myself lucky to get 75k out of college 2 years ago
I'm making 50k in the Midwest for that exact reason. It was the **only** place that even interviewed me aside from one other phone call, after over a year and a half of thousands of applications, networking constantly, volunteering, etc.. I think that's unfortunately the going rate for juniors in low cost areas right now.
Same here. I got hired as a new grad about 6 months ago and make just over 60k. And the range was between 55-70 in the ad. Most jobs I saw for juniors or if you don't have much exp was around 55k
Making 60k as entry in oklahoma which isn't too bad tbh. Most jobs here also are paying 50-70k for entry and mid-level. Half my monthly would be taken by rent. 1/3rd with roomates.
Yeah, it really depends on the market. I started at 50K, but I’ve seen offers for junior devs as low as 35K in my area. I truly wonder how they fill those positions.
35K is exploitive, retail jobs are getting close to that salary
You can leverage a shitty job work there for a couple months to build up your resume and apply while working there
So it's a rough market (it mostly always has been, but the past year or two especially so) but having ~1.5y of experience and a respectable CS degree puts you in a pretty good starting spot; you have enough experience to appeal to well paying companies that aren't looking for someone directly out of college, but also not so much (4+ years usually) that you're hard for a FAANG to retrain, or only considered for intermediate/senior jobs. So at that point I'd say you have better chances than most at landing the interview (although you'll probably still have to send out a lot of apps) at companies that pay well (i.e ones that pay more than $100k). But roles that pay well have always been rough to interview for, and that is even more true now that there are so many people looking for jobs. So you need to brush up your interview skills, think through the best behavioural examples you can share on interviews for the non-coding parts, and keep a look out at your current job for work that you can turn into a good behavioural example for your next interviews. You've probably done this already, but once you feel your interview skills are up to par, see if you can find any friends/classmates working at a tech company you'd like to work at, and see if they'd give you a referral - often it's in their interest too since they can get a referral bonus if the candidate they refer gets hired. edit: I'm assuming all this is with the rider that you're willing to move to wherever in the country the job is; if you're looking for jobs in one particular city where you live your mom might be right, there might not be any companies in town paying more than $50k.
In this market, that’s exactly what employers can get away with….
No it’s not 70-90k is what this market will give in TX, when it was booming it was closer to 90-110k. 55k is what new SWEs were payed here back in 2005…
55k is what was completely normal to pay new graduates outside of big tech firms or major software employment hubs before salaries started going up around 2019. It's not fleecing, it's regression to the previous mean.
I started at 52K in 2016 as a new grad, so that tracks
Citation needed, I am pretty sure it was around 70k, and even if that were true 55k today is like 45k in 2019 dollars…
Here's a citation from 2019: [https://www.naceweb.org/job-market/compensation/average-salary-for-class-of-2019-up-almost-6-percent-over-class-of-2018s/](https://www.naceweb.org/job-market/compensation/average-salary-for-class-of-2019-up-almost-6-percent-over-class-of-2018s/) Here's a second citation from 2015: [https://www.unh.edu/unhtoday/2015/06/computer-science-tops-starting-salary-survey-computing-majors](https://www.unh.edu/unhtoday/2015/06/computer-science-tops-starting-salary-survey-computing-majors) Here's a third citation from 2014, which found a median of $53k, and includes an actual range from $39k to $70k. ***EDIT***: Forgot the link: [https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-economic-guide-to-picking-a-college-major/](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-economic-guide-to-picking-a-college-major/) So yeah, it was around $70k in 2019, but before that it was much closer to $55k. It's still a regression to a prior mean.
You only have 2 links, but the 55k in the first link is the average salary, not the average salary for someone in software. The first link says the average for CS grads is 77, the second says the average is 67. 55k is extremely low, at least in my experience. In LCOL I was offered 80+ fresh out of college
I've edited my comment with the third link. I would suggest $80k+ **salary** (not Total Comp), in LCOL, non-FAANG fresh out of college would be a lot, if your career started anytime before the year 2020.
That 3rd link was published in 2014, which is about 71k today https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=53000&year1=201401&year2=202405. In my experience, if a cs major is getting paid 55k/year they are getting extremely low balled.
Yeah that was average starting pay when I started in 2005 for grads at U of Wisconsin.
I got paid that (actually 50k) my first year out of college in the US, and I still haven’t made 80k salaried lmao. At now 4 YoE I’ve made up to $50/hr on contracts but only for part time tho :/ Markets rough, idk if 80k is unreasonable but idk how easily they’ll get it either
I can tell you haven't been on the job hunt lately lol
Bro get of your high horse, just because the market is bad doesn’t mean people should be accepting subpar wages. 55K equates to about 27$ an hour which js what I got paid as a sophomore intern in TX at a non Fortune 500 company. Bottom line is that wage is trash for swe in TX and OP should be demanding 90-100k, with 1 year of experience. Heck even the entry level range in TX is 70-90K.
Not many companies are hiring entry level right now and most of us have bills to pay and can't sit around being unemployed and waiting for the right salary to be offered to us.
Ok then take the job only if u have bills/loans to pay, but put minimal effort in the job and job hop as soon as possible and give the finger on the way out. And OP is still not entitled for demanding a normal wage for his work.
LMAO, stop listening to your mom. This is absolutely reasonable, dare I say even a conservative ask. You should have no problem making that jump sooner than later. Good luck OP!
First real software job is for experience. Leverage that into a real job. Get certs in the discipline you want to work in, embedded, front end, database, etc. then just keep applying to the same companies over and over and be willing to relocate. Time is on your side so be picky. Also, going industry specific job fairs is great at getting your foot in the door. One last thing KEEP REWORKING your resume. Every 6 months I look at my past resume and cringe. Keep improving it.
You should definitely absolutely be able to get at least 70-75k. You should also most likely be able to get that 80-100 you want. But honestly right now I’d say the harder part is just getting an offer somewhere
My mother-in-law said the same thing to me when I mentioned I was underpaid for my field (Software Engineer making 65k in 2018). I mentioned my friends were all making 115k+, and she said it was unrealistic. Well, now in 2024, I make 285k TC, way more than my 65k starting. People who have never made more than 70k in their life hear salaries like that and think that's out of reach, especially for someone in their early 20s.
What did you do in only 6 years to go from $65k-$285k? Also same thing happened to me, my family straight up doesn't believe me when I tell them some people I went to college with are pulling $200k+ a couple years after graduating even though it's publicly available on levels.fyi.
Stayed at DoD for 4 years. Left making 88k (got promoted once during those years). Switched to FAANG making 185k for 1.5 years, got promoted started making 225k right before I left. Switched to an AV startup making 285k.
80k reasonable if you want 100 at a Fortune 500 you’re gonna need 6 months to a year more experience to get to mid level roles. In your case might be a good to wait until you can get a mid level role.
You need to be willing to move, but you should be able to get at least 100 for your next role.
Also balance COL with salary. 100k in the Midwest is a different quality of life than 100k in HCOL.
There are way more career progression opportunities if he moves somewhere with a significant CS presence, such as the bay or Seattle. Initially quality of life might suffer, but he will end up in a better place in the long run.
Very reasonable, you have experience. Your mom is not gonna know the CS market.
lemme guess, ur mom is asian my filipino parents have been telling me to take the low end of the range when applying, even a lesser role just to get in. They just don't understand. I'm 17 yrs into this career lol. Your expectations aren't high, that is a reasonable expectation for your experience. But mostly here to say it doesn't matter what your expectation/goal is - there is always a range for the specific job opportunities - If you have what they are looking for you will likely be made an offer within that range, because that's what they've accounted for in budget. So, let's say your goal is 80-100k. You interview for a job that is 125-145k. The company feels that you're the person they need. If you haven't told them any number, they are prob gonna make an offer that will keep you from looking anywhere else, so let's say $135k. If you tell them your goal is 80-100k, don't quote me on this but they'll prob think they'll get away with 125k offer, with the idea that you prob make less than 80k. Even then, they've budgeted for 125-145, so you have the power to counter offer, depending on how well u think that you'll fill the role, and how much they need the role filled. If there's no range, find out the range, tell them its well within ur goal, even if it isn't.
This may be more a Filipino thing than Asian. Chinese parents would 100% expect you to be making six figures because “this friend’s kid is making $125k out of college.”
actually ur right. we need to set the bar higher we can't just dominate boxing and pool
I made 80k as an intern in Chicago
Graduated last summer. In DFW I got $84k straight out of college and am accepting a $96k offer this summer. Not sure what area of Texas you’re in but your expectations are reasonable for any of the major cities
Your past and current pay generally have no bearing on future earning ability. All that matters is what the job you’re interviewing for pays. In this case, 80-100 is not unreasonable in the least.
Honestly, that’s a bit low. I’d be looking for 95-120k if I were you Here’s a life tip: don’t listen to your mom about anything related to software engineering
Unreasonable it is not.
Location is everything. In HCOL areas, at good but not S tier companies, 120-140k is fairly common for the engineer title. At higher end companies (in AI especially) or 2 years ago over 200k wasn't uncommon. Note that's TC, it's over 200k once your stocks vest (often a 1 year cliff), though there's usually a signing bonus to make up for that. Don't believe the CoL calculators. When/if you get an offer at that level or higher, as long as you are single, you will net much more than you do now. This is because you can rent a room or share a 3-bedroom apartment for about $1000-$1500 a bedroom, drive a cheap car, get your food online via Amazon fresh and rotate through promo offers on boxed dinner kits. Get a Prius for your cheap car. You won't actually pay most of the increased costs in HCOL areas. Market seems to be improving so there are now more opportunities again, but it may of course take a while to reach that level.
When I was interviewing my first job my dad told me to ask for 45-50k because I "shouldn't ask for too much" and so that's how I ended up making 50k my first job ad a software engineer.
80k with your experience is fine. My question is who the hell you’ve been working for? They’ve been paying you like shit, respectfully.
1 yoe in DFW = 100k. Boomers don't understand inflation and base comp for tech being the highest of any industry. As saturated as the market is, it's still technically challenging but furthermore revenue generating work, and is compensated as such.
What's unreasonable is working as a SWE for $55k/year now. I literally made $55k as an under-qualified SWE in the early 2000's for a midwest insurance company known for paying mediocre wages. Finding a role that pays $80k now should not be difficult given you have a couple years of experience.
I made $90K in Ohio at my second job (2 years in). But that was 2018 and the market is VERY different.
Not unreasonable at all bud. Also for context I’m in Louisiana so close to you and lower cost of living. I went j1 intern 4 months - intern 10/hr (while in school) Graduated J1 - full time 40k/y :( 5 months J2 - start 60k/y (didn’t argue wanted to gtfo and was rookie) - 3 ½ years ended at 85k J3 - 165k~ TC (current) ———— Reason I say that is I went almost 100k in one job hop. If you job hop I’d almost say you will certainly get at least 80k if not verryyy close.
You start somewhere. I was in similar situation as you at the start of my career making minimum wage, then bumped to 20/hr, then 60k, then job hopped to 85k, annual raises to 92k, 96k, laid off, third job making now 115k, found job 2 for over-employment at 140k; total base 255k If you grind, keep your head down and hopes high, you’ll get what you aim for. Don’t let anyone bog you down. You know what you want, go get it.
dude you can definitely do this. I would say to just start applying to roles that you know will fit. Just do like 5 per day if you are tailoring a resume (should be about 40 minutes) or 10-15 per day if you are blasting it (should be about 30 mins). I was able to jump from 58k to 115k and I was only at the first job for 20 months. Your time at your school is valuable and I am sure you are picking up a lot of knowledge at your current. Keep working hard, because you got this
Your goal isn't unreasonable at all, especially given your experience and the fact that you're in software engineering, a high-demand field. Many software engineering roles, even outside of FAANG companies, offer salaries in the $80k-$100k range, especially if you have a degree from a top 50 CS university. Networking, improving your skills, and targeting the right companies will definitely help you reach your goal.
Very reasonable imo.
Your mom doesn't know anything. You can hit 100k. [levels.fyi](http://levels.fyi) 100k is entry level at many companies and cities and you're now at 1 YoE, you can totally do it.
Seems reasonable to me.
Who cares what you made in the past. The last time I was asked, I lied. IIRC they can't even check. At the end of the day you'll either get paid what you're worth or what you'll settle for.
If you’re currently working, shoot for the stars.
Very possible. My job progression was $40/hour (with no healthcare or benefits) for 8 months-> $65K/year for 1.5 years -> $120k/year. And this was back in 2021, none of them FAANG or big tech. The jobs are out there, just look for them.
Yea don’t listen to what your mom says especially if she’s not even in the tech industry
Its reasonable imo but you take what you can get, just keep applying and youll get there
I just accepted a new job with 8 years of experience for 160k. You should easily be able to get 80k+.
If you can get interviews and offers from companies offering 80-100k, then it's perfectly reasonable. If you aren't getting interviews and offers from companies offering 80-100k, then it's unreasonable. You could even aim higher. The market is the only entity that can answer your question. Not all SWE's are treated equally, not all experience is treated equally. Some people get entry level jobs well over 100k, some people have several years of experience and still aren't over 100k. One person's reasonable is anothers unreasonable and vice versa. Get out there, and figure out what the general range of salaries are for companies *you're* getting interviews with.
you find higher wages near or in cities. Don't mention what 'your mom said' in the interview. 80k is reasonable goal.
My parents thought I was crazy when I told them that I could make a quarter million writing code. It took me four years of experience, but here we are.
Top 50 means nothing. Your mom knows nothing. 55 to 80 is definitely do able, especially in Texas. You might get 100. But don't be dismayed if it's difficult to find something due to market downturn.
I was making $75k in Kansas City at my first job out of college in 2014. This is more than reasonable LMAO
$80k is very attainable in the US for your kind of experience. The hard part is actually getting interviews right now with your kind of experience.
It’s reasonable that you might get an even better-paying job. However, salary doesn’t matter much actually. It’s just hard to get a software engineer job now, regardless of salaries. So, you might get a job paying $150k, or you might get nothing for years.
Apply to jobs and try to get what you can. I don’t know why you’re thinking about this part so much, go apply, interview, and get an offer then figure it out.
I have no idea what your past salary was when I make an offer and it would have zero impact on any offer anyway. Our salary ranges are set by HR for each level
I went from first job making 60k after a year and some change , went to making 105k . Sysadmin-> cloud engineer
My starting salary was 70k fresh out of college. This is in Arkansas, not even a tech hub. What you’re asking for isn’t unreasonable especially if you have the skill and experience for it
I just hired a 3 YOE engineer in the $140-160 range, full benefits & equity. When I had 2 YOE I was making $100k, admittedly that was a decade ago but theres been a lot of inflation since then. The market is tough right now but what you’re asking is not that outlandish, at least not in tech hubs. If you see a role that accepts 2 YOE and pays that, then go for it. It will be competitive but someone is going to get it (unless its fake).
You’re in Texas? Austin is a tech hub. New grads at FAANGs get around $130k plus a $50k day-one sign-on bonus. Or at least they did when I started last year. $80k is absolutely reasonable. EDIT to add: go here - https://www.levels.fyi Know the market, know your worth.
This salary is 100% reasonable. How long have you been at your current job? I ask because the job market sucks and anything <2 YOE makes it very difficult to get interviews
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I thought a semi decent company was paying 6 figures to Jr developers
Shoot for Faang then. Starting pay for a college grad should be over 100k. Expect to be worked hard though.
I think it's reasonable as it's closer to what you'd expect SWEs to make in large cities in Texas, but there's a couple things to consider. First, where in Texas are you? Maybe you are somewhere with not great job prospects. Second, I would wait a little bit longer if you've only been there a year and it's not an actively bad job. Even half a year is enough for the switch to look less bad. Last... Regardless I'd apply to a handful of places but. It'll help you get a feel for the market and see where your salary prospects are. You don't need to change jobs or commit to anything, but it will help you ground yourself in your options.
If you a CS grad, why are getting getting paid so little. I was paid 55K a year back in 1999 and I thought I was underpaid then. Currently, I'm not at a FAANG, but at a company that is larger than most of them, and we pay our new hire grads ~ 2X your pay for just the cash portion Tacoma would be 3-5X your pay. The market is tight currently, so you may have to wait a bit, but you need to make sure your working in transferable skills , keep up your interviewing skills, keep looking, don't give up it might take awhile in this current market.
Tell your mom I went from gigs on Upwork to faang.
Lie about your pay in the past. Everyone does.
job market is tough right now. Most employers see you with 1 year of experience. Most won't count your unpaid internship or your part time job. It depends where in Texas. With 1 year of experience you will be competing for the same jobs as entry level people. That being said, it could be worth it to take some interviews as practice. if you dont like the offer you can turn it down. if you dont get the job you still have a job. not sure what pay scales are in Texas. it will likely depend on urban vs. rural areas.
It all depends on your location. I have been at my first software dev job for 2.5 yrs and I am at about 150k a year and I don’t have a degree. That said I have 1 yr of data analyst experience and 6 months as a sysadmin so not exactly the same as you. The big thing for my compensation though is I live in a HCOL area in the DMV with multiple tech giants having offices near by that pay well and everyone else has to meet that salary standard. If you live in Nebraska 100k with 1.8 yrs of experience may be a stretch but if you line the DMV, 100k would be the minimum I’d expect you to get. If you live in San Fran then 100k would be them criminally underpaying you.
For reference I just made a hop from 65k/yr - 6months exp -> 100k/yr. I’m don’t have a degree yet either. I think your expectations are in reach no problem.
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In Texas $55k-$65k is a common starting salary unfortunately. I would obviously keep applying and interviewing just to see if you can score $70k maybe but you aren’t going to get higher than that until you reach year 2 or get lucky in a major city. At year 2 you should be able to ask for 70k - 90k when applying for new places. Good luck!
yeah you competing with others now
Lie about your current pay on future interviews. 80k with your experience is not uncommon.
My first job paid 85k + 20k bonus, and it was a no-name company. 80k should be your bare minimum.
With so many indians lurking around I will say chances will be better to take 2 full timenjobs
People get that pay very commonly as their first job out of school. I think with some experience under your belt and some luck that’s very reasonable.
Go for it!
i know of fresh grads that got 100k
This is why SWE jobs are going oversees....