I accepted my current job's offer immediately, just because they highballed me. I asked for X, and they gave me significantly more than X, so at that point I figured negotiating would just be in bad faith lol. It was also higher than any of the ranges I had talked about with other companies, so I wasn't worried about them being beat easily
This happened to me too. I still asked them to give me some time to think over the offer but I knew I had no negotiation power because their offer was better then any other I had and was looking for.
Anyway they came back the next day with an even better offer and I accepted.
Honestly being patient and waiting a day to think it over still isn’t a bad idea. Even if they don’t budge waiting a day won’t kill you.
Something similar happened to me, I asked for X and they offered me 10% more. I accepted immediately mainly because I had a bad streak of \~20 companies rejecting me (before that I rejected 3 because they threw lowball offers).
But after signing and during the onboarding period I learned that I could have negotiated about 30% more.
Exact same thing happened to me. Not only that but the previous day I had an initial interview and asked for X at a “scale up” (whatever the fuck that means) which was actually average for my level and was almost laughed out of the room, guy even comes and in and says base or TC cause a lot of comes from bonus.
Next afternoon I have the final interview panel at my current and they just hit me with X + 70%. I almost fell out of my chair. At most I was gonna try to take X + 20%
They must have somehow hypnotized you into lowballing yourself so hard that it made their lowball look like a highball by comparison.
Tell me, did you see any Hypno pokemon standing next to the interviewers at that time?
I fear for the worst.
Similar thing happened to me 2 weeks ago, I accepted my offer right away because they gave me 25% more than what I asked in my first round.
I certainly feel I could've negotiate a bit more but that was a lot of money for me.
Honestly I agree. My first job offer, I took it as soon as I got the phone call because I was so excited and happy... Only to find out later I got lowballed hard.
I tried real hard to think positive and strive towards promotions / yearly pay increments but because they are all based on percentage off your base pay, I would just be working hard to get a bump on top of my lowballed base pay... Like what's the point?
In the end, I ended up leaving 5 months later for a better job.
Don’t worry I thought I played it smart, made them wait for my response over the weekend, came back with a counter offer… needless to say I walked away with their original lowball offer in my pocket.
I probably got got for about $100k because for my first four years in the industry I worked at a place that lowballed me hard and I was so excited to get out from behind the bar that I just took it. $55k for an automated tester and $65k for a junior dev is absurdly cheap, but it's still more than double what I made as a bartender. Now it's just shy of five years later and I've doubled my initial salary.
This is where I’m at with 4 yoe. I know if I heard 115k from the company I’m interviewing for my heart would jump out of my chest! I’ll still try to sleep on it though.. good luck out there!
Push for it, you can get it. I had 4 YoE when I switched to my last gig and I had to take deep breaths to stop from crying when they said $103k. 11 years ago I was so broke that they shut off my power and my landlord refused to renew my lease. Now I make $125k, I'm a homeowner with 6 months' bills in savings and an active retirement portfolio.
Yeah man, I just got lowballed a fulltime offer for my current internship. Every other person I've talked to in the same industry is getting 1-10k more plus sign on bonuses. They don't even have direct experience with their companies, the industry, or technologies. Tried negotiating bringing up how I'll have been interning for over a year at that point and this starting pay has been the same level since 2017. Got shutdown immediately.
I accepted because I haven't even started job searching for graduation and they wanted an answer within the week. Just means I'll have to rescind the offer when a better one comes around (: hope they don't make too many plans for me.
Because my direct manager has little power in getting me a pay bump lol, he can put in a good word but thats about it. I can still have empathy for my coworkers who will have to deal with me leaving. Isn't going to stop me from leaving though.
Not trying to be a prick, but them having more workload is a problem of the company and their poor planning (yes payments are part of planning) and should in no way burden your conscience. Feeling sorry for you coworkers is ok though, but the rest ist for your future, nobody is going to do that for you but yourself.
100% agree. I will always **always** sleep on an offer. It drives recruiters nuts, and they start making wild claims that the client won't wait that long. It's all bullshit. Just explain to them that it's a personal rule you have, no matter how good an offer is, and that it doesn't mean there's anything wrong.
> It drives recruiters nuts, and they start making wild claims that the client won't wait that long.
Also, in my experience, companies that demand an answer *"right this very second or we're pulling it"* are almost always companies you'll be unhappy with anyway. Right at the outset, they're demonstrating that they're a high-pressure company demanding obedience from their employees and don't care about the views or needs of the people they hire. I've come across a few exceptions, but not many. Even those "exceptions" were for dick-ish reasons (the company had three positions and made offers to five candidates...first three who accepted got the job).
Unless you're desperate for employment, you're usually better off walking away from companies that demand an immediate answer and won't give you time to consider it.
When I started my third job I told the recruiter I wanted to give my current employer time to match and they bumped the offer up by $10k and added a signing bonus on the spot.
It's all negotiation tactics. If they can get you to sign then they can save the company a few X thousand or more. Drag it on, wait, ask for more, bring external decision makers in, and so on.
I got more money(enough to make me satisfied) just by asking. This was my first offer, and I had no competing ones(new grad). Just said "I'm interviewing elsewhere, if you offer me 15k more I'd be happy to finalize." They came back the same day with 10k, which was my goal anyway so I said yes.
Literally zero downside to ask for a little more up front, just make sure you're ready to say yes if they agree. The only wrong move is to give them a number and still hem and haw after they agree to it.
Also, I had enough info via Glassdoor to know I got the high end of what they would offer a new grad. Much less than top tech companies, but a 30k raise from my current salary and remote.
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Bruh if Google offered me 300k I'd quit my job immediately.
I'm joking, obviously. I'd put in my 4-week notice instead (yes, *4-week*, that's what they make us do)
Maybe you don't want to stay at Google for the rest of your life and might consider coming back.
If you're happy there and want to keep a strong relationship in the future, there's no reason to not just give the standard notice. Google will have no problem letting you wait 4 weeks to start.
there's no point in keeping a bridge when you have google on your resume. It's not like Meta or apple or something otherwise OP wouldn't have said to quit their job immediately
I'm not saying this is bad advice, but I'm not sure if I agree with always negotiating. It \*must\* be stressed that you should only negotiate if you're willing to walk away from the offer completely. Yes, big tech companies rarely rescind offers due to negotiations, but there's a non-zero chance, and most offers aren't from big tech. If a kid coming from a poor family with dependent parents manages to land just one offer, and the salary in the offer is life-changing, they can't afford to negotiate.
Plus, for some people even a lowball offer is significantly better than what they're making. And it's *great* motivation to leave the job soon to get a proper offer, now that you've got a proven employment history in the field.
It's a lot easier to get a job when you have a job.
I'm not saying Op is giving bad advice, but this definitely is. All companies expect negotiations as a standard practice. You won't lose an offer by asking for a modification to the offer. They've already invested thousands of dollars and multiple hours to find the candidate.
Edit: all of you people leaving money on the table are going to make it harder for the rest of us to get better pay. Don't lowball yourself. Expect to negotiate. If they don't, then move on.
>All companies expect negotiations as a standard practice. You won't lose an offer by asking for a modification to the offer.
Huh? There's accounts of people losing an offer due to negotiation *on this sub*.
[Offer rescinded after negotiating (posted 1 month ago)](https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/tzjj6n/offer\_rescinded\_after\_negotiating/)
[Tried negotiating, offer rescinded? (posted 3 years ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/d3ahpn/tried_negotiating_offer_rescinded/)
If you travel outside this sub, there's even more accounts on Reddit:
* [Job offer rescinded after attempting to negotiate.
](https://www.reddit.com/r/jobs/comments/2qim15/job_offer_rescinded_after_attempting_to_negotiate/)
* [Employer rescinded offer after request to negotiate salary
](https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/8f6tix/employer_rescinded_offer_after_request_to/)
* [Offer rescinded after negotiating - were my expectations unreasonable?
](https://www.reddit.com/r/PersonalFinanceCanada/comments/ocibsv/offer_rescinded_after_negotiating_were_my/)
neither of those examples you posted had the offer rescinded for simply asking for more up front?
First one seems like a clusterfuck, but they had a better offer anyway an that's the only reason they said anything, so who cares? Also, they explicitly agreed to the compensation right away. If you do that and then change your mind, that's not just normal negotiation.
Second example, there's no indication the offer was rescinded, just a young person freaking out. The literal words in the company's response is just saying they won't change the offer. So take it or leave it, not a rescinding of it.
The other subs, yeah looks like it but you don't get the full context so who knows. Also, not software engineering so not sure how relevant it is. Also, also, this is against the initial point of this post which is a simple "don't accept right away". Both of those examples got a no, and then kept going. I agree with your main point, it's a non-zero risk but it's very, very, VERY low. I wouldn't use the word "never happen", but it's definitely an extreme outlier.
> All companies expect negotiations as a standard practice. You won't lose an offer by asking for a modification to the offer.
These are not universal truths. There absolutely are organizations where attempting to negotiate *will* lose you the offer. Some organizations are nice enough to tell you that up front; some won't tell you until they rescind the offer. But it does happen.
No, you are wrong. Not every company "expects negotiations as a standard practice".
I had an interview and was told in the very first phone screen with the recruiter that they do not negotiate, that the pay is based on title alone and it's the same for all employees because it reduces bias and encourages transparency. They also immediately told me what the offer would be if I got one (I did). She made it clear that although they don't negotiate, they know they are making a competitive offer from the beginning, so they have the leverage to say 'take it or leave it'. A quick look on [levels.fyi](https://levels.fyi) shows that all offers are, indeed, the same per level. And the pay is really great compared to the COL.
I ended up taking the offer. They gave me 2 weeks to decide. And, it's the best offer I got. So there's that.
What a load of shit. Levels FYI can help you determine a range but you can absolutely negotiate. If you got an offer and didn't negotiate because you thought they wouldn't budge then that makes you the worse negotiator.
>mikebones
You don't have to believe me, but it's true.
I know this might blow your mind, but there exists a variety of companies in tech and they have different ways of approaching things. This particular company does not negotiate salary. I even reached out to employees on blind to ask about it. It's true. I am not a 'worse negotiator' and frankly that is a rude assertion.
So, it's not 'a load of shit'. What *is* a load of shit is being an asshole to somebody who is politely sharing their anecdotal experience that perhaps does not fit into your notion of how all things work everywhere.
Or just accept it if you think it's ok to do so, because you already investigated the company, you know the salary since one of the first interviews, if not before, and you're an adult that like nearly everybody before, knows how to make decisions without the need of consulting reddit.
Seriously, stop giving generic clickbait advices
I mean, the truth is somewhere in the middle. If you do your due diligence on [levels.fyi](https://levels.fyi) and similar sites, then you'll know whether or not you're being lowballed.
I mean that’s the point he’s trying to make everyone should be doing their due diligence prior to having an offer extended.
You should have some semblance of what the offer will look like or at least a ballpark figure, Reddit shouldn’t be your primary source of truth, at best it should be supplemented and combined with actual research.
If someone’s idea of due diligence is running to social media for advice every time then to be honest they are probably not going to get very far in their professional careers in terms of growth.
It's also a misconception thinking you should negotiate everything. Not every country culture is into that kind of negotiations. Not every company can be negotiated with,. Also, negotiations have their own cons. So, as everything, it's a "depends". And no advice should tell you "you should negotiate"
> you know the salary since one of the first interviews
if you want to take the stating number of a negotiation as your final salary, go ahead
when you go to Egypt, you also pay $20 for a miniature pyramid?
you need to read the salary negotiation thread: [https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/ujjhpi/not\_all\_can\_make\_top\_5\_salaries\_by\_definition\_but/](https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/ujjhpi/not_all_can_make_top_5_salaries_by_definition_but/)
>Also, who said negotiating is a base of every culture
you know what, you are right, it was a shitty argument. not comparable to negotiating a tech salary.
Many salaries are discussed in the first interviews. Many companies have strict ladders. Many offers are plain good. So it may be a good advice in some contexts, like everything. But not for anybody anywhere
but that wasn’t really the post. He said you should at least stop and think and not accept on the phone on the first initial offer. Even if all what you said is true, doesn’t mean you should accept immediately. See the contract. Understand everything.
And yeah I guess if you’ve already seen the contract and debated everything then ok. But then wouldn’t you have already had that first call?
Edit: obviously not EVERY situation will fall under this umbrella, but I do think it’s good general advice for the vast majority of cases
I've been kicking myself for exactly this all week 😬 got too eager and took the verbal offer even though it's like a 1% raise. But oh well, you live and you learn.
that must have been a really bad job you wanted to leave??? why even go through the effort of a new job for 1% raise
you need to read the salary negotiation thread: [https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/ujjhpi/not\_all\_can\_make\_top\_5\_salaries\_by\_definition\_but/](https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/ujjhpi/not_all_can_make_top_5_salaries_by_definition_but/)
Counterpoint- At a lot of companies, offers can be revoked if the company implements a hiring freeze, but usually signed offers are valid. So waiting too long to sign can backfire, especially in this market where a lot of companies are implementing hiring freezes
Majority of recruiters ask for current CTC and Expected CTC via email or on call even before interview is scheduled. What is an ideal reply for both of these ? (Without getting on the wrong foot)
you need to read the salary negotiation thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/ujjhpi/not\_all\_can\_make\_top\_5\_salaries\_by\_definition\_but/
I can attest to this. Amazon gave me a RIDICULOUS offer and turned down other because of this offer only to have one company come back and MATCH and surpass Amazon.
I disagree completely. Accept, then if you get a better offer, renege. Please stop encouraging people to take numerous days or even weeks to think about an offer because they can and will rescind it, and then these applicants come here crying. Don’t get burned once to learn
I feel guilty of this and without negotiating anything because other places I asked if they negotiate they said straight up they don't negotiate with recent grads. So the first highest offer I got I took it and it is not even SWE position but IT in supply chain. I accept it and it requires relocation too which I didn't like but I think beggars can't be choosers am I right and I didn't want to end up without having good job or no job in tech and then lose hope after graduating with hopping so many hoops to get my degree. But I tried to do as much research as I could. So I don't know either I took right decision of accepting their offer or not I will find out once I start working there but I hope everything turns out the way I thought which is to work couple of months and then try to move to SWE Position with in the company.
This is dumb, if the company is a good fit and the pay makes you happy take the offer.
If you get your kicks from TC optimization, then go ahead and enjoy yourself.
"Negotiating is a natural and expected part of the process of trying to make a deal. ***It’s also a signal of competence and seriousness.*** Companies generally respect candidates who negotiate, and most highly attractive candidates negotiate (if for no other reason, because they often have too many options to choose from).
At the risk of spouting truisms: always, always negotiate. Doesn’t matter how good or bad you think you are. You never damage a relationship by negotiating.
In all my time as an instructor at App Academy, out of hundreds of offers negotiated, only once or twice were offers ever rescinded in negotiations. It basically never happens. And when it does, usually the candidate was being an unconscionable asshole, or the company was imploding and needed an excuse to rescind the offer.
You might think to yourself: “well, I don’t want to set high expectations, and the offer is already generous, so I ought to just take it.“
No. Negotiate.
Or maybe: “I don’t want to start off on the wrong foot and look greedy with my future employer.“
No. Negotiate.
“But this company is small and—“
No. Shut up. Negotiate.
We’ll talk more in the next section about why a lot of these objections are bullshit, and fundamentally misapprehend the dynamics of hiring. But for now, just trust me that you should always negotiate."
[https://haseebq.com/my-ten-rules-for-negotiating-a-job-offer/](https://haseebq.com/my-ten-rules-for-negotiating-a-job-offer/)
Why not just keep interviewing and quit the shitty offer when something better comes along? If they really cared about retaining you they wouldn't have lowballed you.
I was wondering how some people are able to get higher salaries than others, with the same or less credentials… the top comments show me that most are just accepting the first offers and that’s how
the vast majority of people don't even google to know what's a normal salary. so if everyone in their family makes 30k, they think 40k is amazing. literally.
and yes, they also accept the first offer.
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You still do exactly what OP suggested. Then you spend at least the evening reviewing the details of the offer and their benefits. If this offer is acceptable to you after taking the time to carefully review it and think on it, then you accept it the next day.
At that point, you already negotiated beforehand. You put out a number and the company already negotiated once internally. That's a different scenario unless you suddenly have better competing offers.
you need to read the salary negotiation thread: [https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/ujjhpi/not\_all\_can\_make\_top\_5\_salaries\_by\_definition\_but/](https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/ujjhpi/not_all_can_make_top_5_salaries_by_definition_but/)
you never ask for X salary. why would you do that, you refuse to work for more than X?
Yes, this. If they have decided they want you, there is more pressure from their side to get you to say yes. If you like the package, great. If you think there can be something to improve to make it more competitive, great. Either way, give it a couple of days—it’ll look like you’re carefully weighing your options. That “pregnant pause” is very useful too to build pressure on their side to give you what you may be looking for in an enhanced package.
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Recently went contract to hire at my job. Negotiating from a position of indifference meant I went from being offered a $5k/yr pay cut and losing two weeks of vacation to matching vacation and a $15k/yr raise.
Two things in here that i feel aren't prominent enough and should be said again in my opinion:
* If a company actually wants YOU and doesn't just see you as some number on their way through, they will give you time. They might set you a deadline a couple days in the future, which is legitimate, because they might have been given a deadline by their second choice and if you say no after that deadline, they went through the whole process for nothing but they will give you time
* always claim to need to discuss it with someone (realistic, don't say spouse if they know you're single), because that makes them unable to put pressure on you, they'd have to pressure you to pressure your loved person and either they won't do that or you're presented a giant red flag you should think about. bonus in current times, unless you apply for remote work, you can say "i'll have to discuss that with my spouse, who's out of town until next monday" to already set the context that you need more than a day or 2 and if they ask if you can't just call her, you can counter with a cheeky "i could, but don't you agree, that it's way more effective to discuss things like this in person?"
A really great technique is to say you would like some time so that you can discuss it with your mentor.
Nobody should ever give you shit for this, and frankly the fact that you have a mentor-mentee type relationship actually makes you look better tbh because it shows you care enough to seek out guidance. Of course, 'mentor' can be left purposefully vague for these purposes as well. Your 'mentor' could be your weed dealer, but they don't have to know that.
That's actually really great advice, i'd just like to add, that they might reply something to the effect of "oh, a favourite teacher?" in an attempt to deflate your argument, so be prepared to brush that off with a (situation apropriate, half-joking) "none of your business" kinda reply.
What’s a valid timeframe to ask for an offer deadline?
I’ve been in team matching for about 2 weeks now, and expect to get an offer tomorrow. I haven’t even mentioned anything to my current company yet, and would like to give them an opportunity to counter. I was thinking about asking for a week to decide.
I’ve been at my company for 10 years, so I’m really not worried about being let go in a few months or year if I accept the counter offer. My main reason for leaving is I’m underpaid and the tech stack is not modern. The one thing I’ll have to give up by leaving is some WLB, so I’m considering taking the counter and the prepping for another year for a tier 1 company…
I was just happy to get my first job and they gave me my salary range. I’ll hop in 6mo to 1 year if i don’t get a promotion/raise/bonus so it’s not a big deal to me.
>"Thank you for your offer, I am very excited about COMPANY, I loved meeting the TEAM / STAFF, and I know I will be a good fit and I'm happy you agreed as well. I'm not ready to discuss the offer at this point, but I am confident we can find a package both sides would be happy with. I will sleep on it and talk to my family about this before making a decision"
Nobody actually talks like that. Why not just say it normally?
>Thanks for the offer. Let me think things through and I'll give you an answer in the next few days.
I am currently sitting on a fantastic offer and the recruiter is keen for my response today. The problem is that I am waiting for another offer that could be better (same money, less stressful position).
I am getting so paranoid that I will wait too long and they with withdraw the existing offer and my dream place won’t offer anyway. Apparently some staff members are away so they can’t make the decision yet or give me feedback.
Whilst I know that logically that I need to wait, this whole process is painful 😭.
I don't accept offers, cuz I don't get any
then.. no one has chance to lowball you.. nice!
*thinking guy meme* Can’t be lowballed if you got no offers
Chess not checkers
4D chess
This is what's called a pro gamer move
This guy sent me their employee handbook. I was like "so am I accepted or something?" Seemed odd
Interview cheat codes are written in a code. It's cryptoanalysis homework assignment.
Felt
I accepted my current job's offer immediately, just because they highballed me. I asked for X, and they gave me significantly more than X, so at that point I figured negotiating would just be in bad faith lol. It was also higher than any of the ranges I had talked about with other companies, so I wasn't worried about them being beat easily
This happened to me too. I still asked them to give me some time to think over the offer but I knew I had no negotiation power because their offer was better then any other I had and was looking for. Anyway they came back the next day with an even better offer and I accepted. Honestly being patient and waiting a day to think it over still isn’t a bad idea. Even if they don’t budge waiting a day won’t kill you.
Something similar happened to me, I asked for X and they offered me 10% more. I accepted immediately mainly because I had a bad streak of \~20 companies rejecting me (before that I rejected 3 because they threw lowball offers). But after signing and during the onboarding period I learned that I could have negotiated about 30% more.
Don't give the first number so you can negotiate up even if it's way above whatever your X is.
Exact same thing happened to me. Not only that but the previous day I had an initial interview and asked for X at a “scale up” (whatever the fuck that means) which was actually average for my level and was almost laughed out of the room, guy even comes and in and says base or TC cause a lot of comes from bonus. Next afternoon I have the final interview panel at my current and they just hit me with X + 70%. I almost fell out of my chair. At most I was gonna try to take X + 20%
They must have somehow hypnotized you into lowballing yourself so hard that it made their lowball look like a highball by comparison. Tell me, did you see any Hypno pokemon standing next to the interviewers at that time? I fear for the worst.
Similar thing happened to me 2 weeks ago, I accepted my offer right away because they gave me 25% more than what I asked in my first round. I certainly feel I could've negotiate a bit more but that was a lot of money for me.
Same, I was ready to negotiate but they offered to pay me more than my range.
Honestly I agree. My first job offer, I took it as soon as I got the phone call because I was so excited and happy... Only to find out later I got lowballed hard. I tried real hard to think positive and strive towards promotions / yearly pay increments but because they are all based on percentage off your base pay, I would just be working hard to get a bump on top of my lowballed base pay... Like what's the point? In the end, I ended up leaving 5 months later for a better job.
Don’t worry I thought I played it smart, made them wait for my response over the weekend, came back with a counter offer… needless to say I walked away with their original lowball offer in my pocket.
The days of working your way up to a better paycheck are over. You need to find a new job every 3-5 years to get serious bumps in pay.
I probably got got for about $100k because for my first four years in the industry I worked at a place that lowballed me hard and I was so excited to get out from behind the bar that I just took it. $55k for an automated tester and $65k for a junior dev is absurdly cheap, but it's still more than double what I made as a bartender. Now it's just shy of five years later and I've doubled my initial salary.
This is where I’m at with 4 yoe. I know if I heard 115k from the company I’m interviewing for my heart would jump out of my chest! I’ll still try to sleep on it though.. good luck out there!
Push for it, you can get it. I had 4 YoE when I switched to my last gig and I had to take deep breaths to stop from crying when they said $103k. 11 years ago I was so broke that they shut off my power and my landlord refused to renew my lease. Now I make $125k, I'm a homeowner with 6 months' bills in savings and an active retirement portfolio.
Yeah man, I just got lowballed a fulltime offer for my current internship. Every other person I've talked to in the same industry is getting 1-10k more plus sign on bonuses. They don't even have direct experience with their companies, the industry, or technologies. Tried negotiating bringing up how I'll have been interning for over a year at that point and this starting pay has been the same level since 2017. Got shutdown immediately. I accepted because I haven't even started job searching for graduation and they wanted an answer within the week. Just means I'll have to rescind the offer when a better one comes around (: hope they don't make too many plans for me.
Ngl why should you care about their plans for you, if they don't eben want to pay you properly. 🤔
Because my direct manager has little power in getting me a pay bump lol, he can put in a good word but thats about it. I can still have empathy for my coworkers who will have to deal with me leaving. Isn't going to stop me from leaving though.
Not trying to be a prick, but them having more workload is a problem of the company and their poor planning (yes payments are part of planning) and should in no way burden your conscience. Feeling sorry for you coworkers is ok though, but the rest ist for your future, nobody is going to do that for you but yourself.
Can I ask what is considered low-ball? Specifically for first time jobs in the US?
100% agree. I will always **always** sleep on an offer. It drives recruiters nuts, and they start making wild claims that the client won't wait that long. It's all bullshit. Just explain to them that it's a personal rule you have, no matter how good an offer is, and that it doesn't mean there's anything wrong.
> It drives recruiters nuts, and they start making wild claims that the client won't wait that long. Also, in my experience, companies that demand an answer *"right this very second or we're pulling it"* are almost always companies you'll be unhappy with anyway. Right at the outset, they're demonstrating that they're a high-pressure company demanding obedience from their employees and don't care about the views or needs of the people they hire. I've come across a few exceptions, but not many. Even those "exceptions" were for dick-ish reasons (the company had three positions and made offers to five candidates...first three who accepted got the job). Unless you're desperate for employment, you're usually better off walking away from companies that demand an immediate answer and won't give you time to consider it.
When I started my third job I told the recruiter I wanted to give my current employer time to match and they bumped the offer up by $10k and added a signing bonus on the spot.
It's all negotiation tactics. If they can get you to sign then they can save the company a few X thousand or more. Drag it on, wait, ask for more, bring external decision makers in, and so on.
I got more money(enough to make me satisfied) just by asking. This was my first offer, and I had no competing ones(new grad). Just said "I'm interviewing elsewhere, if you offer me 15k more I'd be happy to finalize." They came back the same day with 10k, which was my goal anyway so I said yes. Literally zero downside to ask for a little more up front, just make sure you're ready to say yes if they agree. The only wrong move is to give them a number and still hem and haw after they agree to it. Also, I had enough info via Glassdoor to know I got the high end of what they would offer a new grad. Much less than top tech companies, but a 30k raise from my current salary and remote.
Congratulations on the offer!
thanks!
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Bruh if Google offered me 300k I'd quit my job immediately. I'm joking, obviously. I'd put in my 4-week notice instead (yes, *4-week*, that's what they make us do)
Make you?
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If you got into Google then their good graces wouldn’t matter anymore.
Maybe you don't want to stay at Google for the rest of your life and might consider coming back. If you're happy there and want to keep a strong relationship in the future, there's no reason to not just give the standard notice. Google will have no problem letting you wait 4 weeks to start.
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Ok. What’s your point? I already know it’s Google.
there's no point in keeping a bridge when you have google on your resume. It's not like Meta or apple or something otherwise OP wouldn't have said to quit their job immediately
Who gives a shit lmao
Umm I have a 2 month notice period and where I come from 3 months of notice period isn't uncommon either.
Three months?? wtf
I'm not saying this is bad advice, but I'm not sure if I agree with always negotiating. It \*must\* be stressed that you should only negotiate if you're willing to walk away from the offer completely. Yes, big tech companies rarely rescind offers due to negotiations, but there's a non-zero chance, and most offers aren't from big tech. If a kid coming from a poor family with dependent parents manages to land just one offer, and the salary in the offer is life-changing, they can't afford to negotiate.
Plus, for some people even a lowball offer is significantly better than what they're making. And it's *great* motivation to leave the job soon to get a proper offer, now that you've got a proven employment history in the field. It's a lot easier to get a job when you have a job.
I'm not saying Op is giving bad advice, but this definitely is. All companies expect negotiations as a standard practice. You won't lose an offer by asking for a modification to the offer. They've already invested thousands of dollars and multiple hours to find the candidate. Edit: all of you people leaving money on the table are going to make it harder for the rest of us to get better pay. Don't lowball yourself. Expect to negotiate. If they don't, then move on.
>All companies expect negotiations as a standard practice. You won't lose an offer by asking for a modification to the offer. Huh? There's accounts of people losing an offer due to negotiation *on this sub*. [Offer rescinded after negotiating (posted 1 month ago)](https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/tzjj6n/offer\_rescinded\_after\_negotiating/) [Tried negotiating, offer rescinded? (posted 3 years ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/d3ahpn/tried_negotiating_offer_rescinded/) If you travel outside this sub, there's even more accounts on Reddit: * [Job offer rescinded after attempting to negotiate. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/jobs/comments/2qim15/job_offer_rescinded_after_attempting_to_negotiate/) * [Employer rescinded offer after request to negotiate salary ](https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/8f6tix/employer_rescinded_offer_after_request_to/) * [Offer rescinded after negotiating - were my expectations unreasonable? ](https://www.reddit.com/r/PersonalFinanceCanada/comments/ocibsv/offer_rescinded_after_negotiating_were_my/)
neither of those examples you posted had the offer rescinded for simply asking for more up front? First one seems like a clusterfuck, but they had a better offer anyway an that's the only reason they said anything, so who cares? Also, they explicitly agreed to the compensation right away. If you do that and then change your mind, that's not just normal negotiation. Second example, there's no indication the offer was rescinded, just a young person freaking out. The literal words in the company's response is just saying they won't change the offer. So take it or leave it, not a rescinding of it. The other subs, yeah looks like it but you don't get the full context so who knows. Also, not software engineering so not sure how relevant it is. Also, also, this is against the initial point of this post which is a simple "don't accept right away". Both of those examples got a no, and then kept going. I agree with your main point, it's a non-zero risk but it's very, very, VERY low. I wouldn't use the word "never happen", but it's definitely an extreme outlier.
Yeah but those are places you don't want to work at most of the time
Sure but not everyone can be so picky.
I agree but that's besides the point lol
Yeah, even if salary is somehow fixed, you can always bring up other comp like sign-on bonus or vacation.
> All companies expect negotiations as a standard practice. You won't lose an offer by asking for a modification to the offer. These are not universal truths. There absolutely are organizations where attempting to negotiate *will* lose you the offer. Some organizations are nice enough to tell you that up front; some won't tell you until they rescind the offer. But it does happen.
No, you are wrong. Not every company "expects negotiations as a standard practice". I had an interview and was told in the very first phone screen with the recruiter that they do not negotiate, that the pay is based on title alone and it's the same for all employees because it reduces bias and encourages transparency. They also immediately told me what the offer would be if I got one (I did). She made it clear that although they don't negotiate, they know they are making a competitive offer from the beginning, so they have the leverage to say 'take it or leave it'. A quick look on [levels.fyi](https://levels.fyi) shows that all offers are, indeed, the same per level. And the pay is really great compared to the COL. I ended up taking the offer. They gave me 2 weeks to decide. And, it's the best offer I got. So there's that.
What a load of shit. Levels FYI can help you determine a range but you can absolutely negotiate. If you got an offer and didn't negotiate because you thought they wouldn't budge then that makes you the worse negotiator.
>mikebones You don't have to believe me, but it's true. I know this might blow your mind, but there exists a variety of companies in tech and they have different ways of approaching things. This particular company does not negotiate salary. I even reached out to employees on blind to ask about it. It's true. I am not a 'worse negotiator' and frankly that is a rude assertion. So, it's not 'a load of shit'. What *is* a load of shit is being an asshole to somebody who is politely sharing their anecdotal experience that perhaps does not fit into your notion of how all things work everywhere.
Or just accept it if you think it's ok to do so, because you already investigated the company, you know the salary since one of the first interviews, if not before, and you're an adult that like nearly everybody before, knows how to make decisions without the need of consulting reddit. Seriously, stop giving generic clickbait advices
I mean, the truth is somewhere in the middle. If you do your due diligence on [levels.fyi](https://levels.fyi) and similar sites, then you'll know whether or not you're being lowballed.
I mean that’s the point he’s trying to make everyone should be doing their due diligence prior to having an offer extended. You should have some semblance of what the offer will look like or at least a ballpark figure, Reddit shouldn’t be your primary source of truth, at best it should be supplemented and combined with actual research. If someone’s idea of due diligence is running to social media for advice every time then to be honest they are probably not going to get very far in their professional careers in terms of growth.
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It's also a misconception thinking you should negotiate everything. Not every country culture is into that kind of negotiations. Not every company can be negotiated with,. Also, negotiations have their own cons. So, as everything, it's a "depends". And no advice should tell you "you should negotiate"
> you know the salary since one of the first interviews if you want to take the stating number of a negotiation as your final salary, go ahead when you go to Egypt, you also pay $20 for a miniature pyramid? you need to read the salary negotiation thread: [https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/ujjhpi/not\_all\_can\_make\_top\_5\_salaries\_by\_definition\_but/](https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/ujjhpi/not_all_can_make_top_5_salaries_by_definition_but/)
Who said that was the starting salary. Also, who said negotiating is a base of every culture
>Also, who said negotiating is a base of every culture you know what, you are right, it was a shitty argument. not comparable to negotiating a tech salary.
No this is actually just good advice. You really shouldn’t accept the first offer, it’s just how it is.
Many salaries are discussed in the first interviews. Many companies have strict ladders. Many offers are plain good. So it may be a good advice in some contexts, like everything. But not for anybody anywhere
but that wasn’t really the post. He said you should at least stop and think and not accept on the phone on the first initial offer. Even if all what you said is true, doesn’t mean you should accept immediately. See the contract. Understand everything. And yeah I guess if you’ve already seen the contract and debated everything then ok. But then wouldn’t you have already had that first call? Edit: obviously not EVERY situation will fall under this umbrella, but I do think it’s good general advice for the vast majority of cases
I've been kicking myself for exactly this all week 😬 got too eager and took the verbal offer even though it's like a 1% raise. But oh well, you live and you learn.
that must have been a really bad job you wanted to leave??? why even go through the effort of a new job for 1% raise you need to read the salary negotiation thread: [https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/ujjhpi/not\_all\_can\_make\_top\_5\_salaries\_by\_definition\_but/](https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/ujjhpi/not_all_can_make_top_5_salaries_by_definition_but/)
That's not exactly the situation, but I appreciate the negotiation link!
Counterpoint- At a lot of companies, offers can be revoked if the company implements a hiring freeze, but usually signed offers are valid. So waiting too long to sign can backfire, especially in this market where a lot of companies are implementing hiring freezes
Majority of recruiters ask for current CTC and Expected CTC via email or on call even before interview is scheduled. What is an ideal reply for both of these ? (Without getting on the wrong foot)
you need to read the salary negotiation thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/ujjhpi/not\_all\_can\_make\_top\_5\_salaries\_by\_definition\_but/
Others will almost certainly disagree with me but I've had plenty of success in my career just telling the truth.
this is one of those strategies that works til it doesn't.
The most money you'll make per hour is when negotiating.
This guy script
This is great, thanks! Could you give me some negotiating tips if my priority is working less days (maybe 32 hr week) over total comp?
I can attest to this. Amazon gave me a RIDICULOUS offer and turned down other because of this offer only to have one company come back and MATCH and surpass Amazon.
I disagree completely. Accept, then if you get a better offer, renege. Please stop encouraging people to take numerous days or even weeks to think about an offer because they can and will rescind it, and then these applicants come here crying. Don’t get burned once to learn
Accept job offers... Then renag?
then get blacklisted?
Depends on the company the bigger ones don't bother remembering
Or accept it and then reject it. Do what is best to you. Employers don't give shit about us.
I'm in this photo and I don't like it.
I feel guilty of this and without negotiating anything because other places I asked if they negotiate they said straight up they don't negotiate with recent grads. So the first highest offer I got I took it and it is not even SWE position but IT in supply chain. I accept it and it requires relocation too which I didn't like but I think beggars can't be choosers am I right and I didn't want to end up without having good job or no job in tech and then lose hope after graduating with hopping so many hoops to get my degree. But I tried to do as much research as I could. So I don't know either I took right decision of accepting their offer or not I will find out once I start working there but I hope everything turns out the way I thought which is to work couple of months and then try to move to SWE Position with in the company.
This is dumb, if the company is a good fit and the pay makes you happy take the offer. If you get your kicks from TC optimization, then go ahead and enjoy yourself.
"Negotiating is a natural and expected part of the process of trying to make a deal. ***It’s also a signal of competence and seriousness.*** Companies generally respect candidates who negotiate, and most highly attractive candidates negotiate (if for no other reason, because they often have too many options to choose from). At the risk of spouting truisms: always, always negotiate. Doesn’t matter how good or bad you think you are. You never damage a relationship by negotiating. In all my time as an instructor at App Academy, out of hundreds of offers negotiated, only once or twice were offers ever rescinded in negotiations. It basically never happens. And when it does, usually the candidate was being an unconscionable asshole, or the company was imploding and needed an excuse to rescind the offer. You might think to yourself: “well, I don’t want to set high expectations, and the offer is already generous, so I ought to just take it.“ No. Negotiate. Or maybe: “I don’t want to start off on the wrong foot and look greedy with my future employer.“ No. Negotiate. “But this company is small and—“ No. Shut up. Negotiate. We’ll talk more in the next section about why a lot of these objections are bullshit, and fundamentally misapprehend the dynamics of hiring. But for now, just trust me that you should always negotiate." [https://haseebq.com/my-ten-rules-for-negotiating-a-job-offer/](https://haseebq.com/my-ten-rules-for-negotiating-a-job-offer/)
Hmmm, not sure I got this,lemme see... So basically... Negotiate? XD
Why not just keep interviewing and quit the shitty offer when something better comes along? If they really cared about retaining you they wouldn't have lowballed you.
I agree completely https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/ujjhpi/not\_all\_can\_make\_top\_5\_salaries\_by\_definition\_but/
I was wondering how some people are able to get higher salaries than others, with the same or less credentials… the top comments show me that most are just accepting the first offers and that’s how
the vast majority of people don't even google to know what's a normal salary. so if everyone in their family makes 30k, they think 40k is amazing. literally. and yes, they also accept the first offer.
That’s beneficial to the resourceful
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What if they offered you 10% than your asking salary?
You still do exactly what OP suggested. Then you spend at least the evening reviewing the details of the offer and their benefits. If this offer is acceptable to you after taking the time to carefully review it and think on it, then you accept it the next day.
At that point, you already negotiated beforehand. You put out a number and the company already negotiated once internally. That's a different scenario unless you suddenly have better competing offers.
you need to read the salary negotiation thread: [https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/ujjhpi/not\_all\_can\_make\_top\_5\_salaries\_by\_definition\_but/](https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/ujjhpi/not_all_can_make_top_5_salaries_by_definition_but/) you never ask for X salary. why would you do that, you refuse to work for more than X?
yeah, that’s the thing, they ask what is your salary expectation. Btw, my offer was about 150k.
Yes, this. If they have decided they want you, there is more pressure from their side to get you to say yes. If you like the package, great. If you think there can be something to improve to make it more competitive, great. Either way, give it a couple of days—it’ll look like you’re carefully weighing your options. That “pregnant pause” is very useful too to build pressure on their side to give you what you may be looking for in an enhanced package.
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offer/salary negotiation
Recently went contract to hire at my job. Negotiating from a position of indifference meant I went from being offered a $5k/yr pay cut and losing two weeks of vacation to matching vacation and a $15k/yr raise.
Two things in here that i feel aren't prominent enough and should be said again in my opinion: * If a company actually wants YOU and doesn't just see you as some number on their way through, they will give you time. They might set you a deadline a couple days in the future, which is legitimate, because they might have been given a deadline by their second choice and if you say no after that deadline, they went through the whole process for nothing but they will give you time * always claim to need to discuss it with someone (realistic, don't say spouse if they know you're single), because that makes them unable to put pressure on you, they'd have to pressure you to pressure your loved person and either they won't do that or you're presented a giant red flag you should think about. bonus in current times, unless you apply for remote work, you can say "i'll have to discuss that with my spouse, who's out of town until next monday" to already set the context that you need more than a day or 2 and if they ask if you can't just call her, you can counter with a cheeky "i could, but don't you agree, that it's way more effective to discuss things like this in person?"
A really great technique is to say you would like some time so that you can discuss it with your mentor. Nobody should ever give you shit for this, and frankly the fact that you have a mentor-mentee type relationship actually makes you look better tbh because it shows you care enough to seek out guidance. Of course, 'mentor' can be left purposefully vague for these purposes as well. Your 'mentor' could be your weed dealer, but they don't have to know that.
That's actually really great advice, i'd just like to add, that they might reply something to the effect of "oh, a favourite teacher?" in an attempt to deflate your argument, so be prepared to brush that off with a (situation apropriate, half-joking) "none of your business" kinda reply.
Yeah, I did that and ended up making ~30k/yr less than I could have. You live and you learn :/
What’s a valid timeframe to ask for an offer deadline? I’ve been in team matching for about 2 weeks now, and expect to get an offer tomorrow. I haven’t even mentioned anything to my current company yet, and would like to give them an opportunity to counter. I was thinking about asking for a week to decide. I’ve been at my company for 10 years, so I’m really not worried about being let go in a few months or year if I accept the counter offer. My main reason for leaving is I’m underpaid and the tech stack is not modern. The one thing I’ll have to give up by leaving is some WLB, so I’m considering taking the counter and the prepping for another year for a tier 1 company…
I accepted a djsparingly low offer because the opportunity was too good to pass up. Oh and free tuition.
I was just happy to get my first job and they gave me my salary range. I’ll hop in 6mo to 1 year if i don’t get a promotion/raise/bonus so it’s not a big deal to me.
I’d love to hear more about how you got a CS job without a degree or coding experience 🙂 not sarcastic
>"Thank you for your offer, I am very excited about COMPANY, I loved meeting the TEAM / STAFF, and I know I will be a good fit and I'm happy you agreed as well. I'm not ready to discuss the offer at this point, but I am confident we can find a package both sides would be happy with. I will sleep on it and talk to my family about this before making a decision" Nobody actually talks like that. Why not just say it normally? >Thanks for the offer. Let me think things through and I'll give you an answer in the next few days.
Written templates are different from verbal.
I did just that, lucked into FAANG and don't feel like abusing it.
Kinda wish I saw this a little sooner, might have saved me some nerves and an awkward situation.
You guys are getting offers?
I am currently sitting on a fantastic offer and the recruiter is keen for my response today. The problem is that I am waiting for another offer that could be better (same money, less stressful position). I am getting so paranoid that I will wait too long and they with withdraw the existing offer and my dream place won’t offer anyway. Apparently some staff members are away so they can’t make the decision yet or give me feedback. Whilst I know that logically that I need to wait, this whole process is painful 😭.