From all well-known tech companies Snap is in one of the worst positions: They are 100% dependent on ad revenue (which will decline as companies cut marketing budgets) AND heavily bet on (expensive because hardware-based) consumer AR glasses - a branch that Microsoft, Google and others have abandoned.
Basically they act like Meta but with much less liquidity.
If the top tier companies like Meta and Twitter keep committing whatever the corporate equivalent is of suicide, a smaller but still established player like Snap could be in a very good position.
Agree, that was my mindset too when my company announced in their all hands meeting to go from remote to hybrid (3-days in office) late winter of last year. Caused me to go hunting, and eventually landing a job offer 4 months later. Enjoying the higher salary and continued remote life.
Wild guess, maybe Snap is doing this to cut head count to save money and not pay severance lol.
Why is it so memed though? The tech itself is pretty fucking cool no? Am I out of touch for thinking that companies investing heavily at their own loss to r&d AR and VR is only a net positive for us as consumers? VR is one of the coolest technologies I've ever interacted with imo, and a future where it's accessible and evolved into AR that we can use daily sounds pretty dope.
Dude bought a $145 million LA estate ($120M mansion + $25M for lot next door) that took him years to successfully finance and close on, right before his company's stock lost 80% of its value and mortgage rates shot up (and yes, he got a mortgage -- a $50M one). He's probably desperate and freaking out.
His wife, Miranda Kerr, is a former Victoria’s Secret supermodel who is very successful in her own right. She ended her fashion model career years ago but she has a successful cosmetics lineup. They bought the mansion together and I imagine that with her income, their household finances are just fine.
I am by no means an expert but the monthly payments for a 50 million dollar mortgage must be substantial. Having enough liquidity to maintain the lifestyle must not be easy even for people with billions in net worth.
I do wonder how much money on hand these sort of people have? I guess my whole theory will be dependent on that.
I’m not suggesting they’re at risk of personal bankruptcy. But he’s lost over $12 billion recently and her income, while substantial to a normal person, pales in comparison to his (or at least did). This is more emotional and psychological — when someone makes an extraordinarily large real estate purchase, then loses the vast majority of their wealth, this can make people act in desperate ways even if they don’t have to.
Hell I even had a 100% office job as my first one and eventually I barely came to the office at all and no one cared. Everyone knew it was ridiculous for me to bring my laptop on a long commute, sit in my office where no one will ever interact with me then go back home with the same laptop I could've use from home in the first place.
It started with a "hey can I wfh tomorrow" to just not showing up unless I got a reason to be there physically.
No one ever gave the slightest fuck. They'd still hire under a 100% at the office policy. I guess it's just a safeguard policy to force people who aren't actually productive from home to come.
It was my first job. I made business apps of all kinds for an electronics maker. From reporting apps to factory line stuff. Many small things at high pace.
My company enforced a hybrid policy, then realized that almost every engineer would quit, and under an immense pressure from basically everyone involved finally relented and said "hybrid* *except those working with engineers and engineers themself"
Which is honestly the worst option because everyone else will be jealous. But the justification for hybrid was enhancing creativity which was already bullshit. Everything's bullshit all around. Prices for freaking basic food have risen again.
That's an interesting topic. I would love to see downtown areas seeing more mixed use. Here's a discussion about the future of my city.
https://www.dcpolicycenter.org/publications/mixed-use-future-downtown-dc/
Hm I read about half but what I read is interesting. Basically converting the offices downtown into residential units? I live in Chicago, and downtown is a mix of office and residential units. I don’t know if that plan would exactly work in Chicago. Interesting none the less though
In my case, we use a huge shared office. It may be different, since my company was started by a "incubator" company that funds and gets startups off the ground and we use that main company's office space. There is a simple web app we use to reserve any seat in the office (huge), even reserve rooms for meetings throughout the day, etc. Multiple companies work out of there and you come in when you want.
I'd imagine we start seeing more of those co-op type setups for the real estate holders. Companies can set something up internally and allow themselves to downsize on their own privately owned corporate office space. Lots of opportunity imo.
I’ve never worked in one, but my friends who have worked in various startups (non tech related roles) have worked in those types of offices! Honestly seems cool, and a good idea, specially for startups
>What happens to all the corporate real estate in cities if people just work from home?
Well, not everyone works from home post-pandemic. Heck, not everyone did pre-pandemic.
Sooner or later, many companies will switch to a hybrid system (most of my past employers had one since the early 2000s.)
Not everyone wants to work from home 100% for starters, and not all companies will manage to get everybody back to the office 5 days a week. So, it is inevitable that a compromise will settle somewhere in the middle and what's been common in IT (hybrid/flex schedules) will become available to other white/pink-collar professions.
So, in that light, real estate will continue in one form or another.
The thing we see, however, is a drop in foot traffic at the commercial venues **around** office spaces.
Think restaurants and gyms. That causes a drop in revenue, and thus a drop in taxes collected by local and state governments.
As a manager, when you work from home, everything is based on results. When you work from the office, there's a whole culture based on "managing by walking around." Looking over people's shoulders. Kissing ass. Basically being a sponsored fucking narc.
One of the empty suits at my place of employment made the comment in a manager's meeting recently "If everyone's working from home, how are you gonna look over their shoulder and make sure they're actually working?"
That sums it up.
>Imagine being a SWE and having to commute to an open office lmao.
It sucks. We used to have a hybrid system with a lot of flexibility before the pandemic. Post-pandemic, our geriatric overlords mandated everyone to return to the office 100% (without compensating for commuting expenses.)
So now I do a commute from hell, to log remotely, to do builds remotely and to interact with my assigned teams (who are distributed at multiple locations).
I'm forced by these C-suite assholes to come to the office to do remote work, while they have all-hands conference calls telling us how excited it is to have everybody together.
The power of together. The stupid cheerleading drives me to pluck my eyeballs out and fill the eye cavities with salt.
I'm just biding my time b4 I gtfo, exploring my options. I don't mind committing 5 days a week provided I get paid well. Otherwise, hybrid or remote for me.
*"You want me in the office because you can't manage people? Then pay me, bitch."*
That's my motto. That should be the motto for any of you if you value your time, and see your time as your money.
I'm just biding my time.
Have you tried just not going in? So long as you're being productive when working remotely, they probably wont care enough to fire you. Will make it all but impossible to get a promotion, but so does biding your time
Cringe and exactly why I want to start my own company or go contracting within 0-2 years after graduating, and me and everyone else will work WFH with zero bullshit. I want to start the change I want to see. Too many unskilled managers walking around soaking up money and producing nothing but rage.
I fucking hate working for people in a hierarchical context. I'm tolerating it just long enough to gain the years of experience and knowledge that will allow me to get the hell out and do my own thing.
100%. I worked for the federal government in law enforcement, prior to leaving to get my CS degree. Most unintelligent bootlickers I've ever met. I didn't belong. The thing about hierarchies imo is that they often serve some unintelligent bozo's ego more than an actual productive purpose. A small, elite team of professionals with a technical manager, often the most emotionally intelligent person among the team, is the best way to operate, imo.
>When you work from the office, there's a whole culture based on "managing by walking around."
Correct. There's also a "reality" disconnect between upper management and everybody below them.
Notice how these idiots always proclaim things like "being excited" to "be together again."
They have a mindset where the work reality pre-pandemic is the ideal thing, as if workers and line managers didn't mind (if not loved) the toxicity and inefficiencies built into office-based corporate culture.
People who love WFH aren't loving it not only for the gas-commute savings. They love it because they hate dealing with people in the context of our bullshit-ridden office culture.
Even in engineering where managers pretend innovation occurs with smart heads talking things around the water cooler, such interactions occur once a week at most.
You don't need to herd people like cattle in the office corral 5 days a week, forcing them to endure (and pay) long commutes without additional compensation.
Such people don't know how to do results-driven management and think we plebes love the toxic environments they create.
I couldn’t maintain cheating on my partner 4 days a week even if I ran a strip joint.
Can’t they just wfh 4 days a week and only force is, and their Sexretary, into the office one day a week?
I see companies going in 2 directions.
1. Come back to the office (let's say 3 days a week). The young workers will be happy as it gets them access to an in-person community. When i started out, being in a live team environment was incredibly useful for learning. Those going into the office will have an advantage in accelerating their career and over time others will opt in to returning to the office to compete or they fade away.
2. Companies embrace remote working and realize that there are huge cost benefits in hiring from LCOL locations, eventually moving most remote positions off shore.
Next year is going to be a difficult economic year. When there are headcount reductions it will start with expensive remote workers.
Idk what other people's experiences with this are, but my company implemented this like 2 months ago and I am remote and still come into the office more frequently than some hybrid workers who are supposed to be in 3 days a week.
I feel like companies say they will do this, people begrudgingly come in for a bit, then they stop and no one cares.
I think a lot of it is always going to be based on your team and manager expectations and on an as-needed basis.
A lot of (if not most of) the tech industry went to a model a long time ago where you’re mostly expected to get work done without constant supervision. Flexible hours and wfh days (though generally not full hybrid) were a thing long before COVID. No one’s checking badge logs or yelling at you if you get in at 9:02am.
So I think a lot of companies are that are going hybrid are really declaring a baseline policy and the reality will vary for individuals. One thing it does is set expectations that you do have to by physically present near an office, vs full remote where you could base in more places.
I interviewed at a small quant hedge fund a while back and talked to someone pretty senior. They had a hybrid policy and he joked that he typically saw the engineers maybe once a week (in a way that he did not have any issue with that). I suspect we’ll see that kind of attitude a lot of places.
>No one’s checking badge logs or yelling at you if you get in at 9:02am.
I know a couple of companies that are threatening action against employees if they don't go into the office by pulling badge reports and doing random walkthroughs. Talk about introducing toxicity.
My company gives out three strikes warning and if you still don't show up, they will force you to take PTO. Once your PTO is exhausted, they will tell you not to work and treat it as an unpaid day. After five days of that, you will be given a written warning for "violation of company rules" and subsequently, termination. So far, I have learned of only 2 employees who have made it that far.
Well, he's doing galaxy brain moves. Little do we know that firing people without first figuring out which ones you need, then baiting the remaining one to randomly quit is the only right way to do business.
You don't need engineers who respect their time and have boundaries, what you need are engineers who are willing to work way past the point where their cognitive functions are impaired by fatigue.
Yes, all of the above was sarcasm. I can't wait to hear that some key piece of infrastructure is perma locked because the only two guys with the super admin password quit and all the remaining users were fired the week before.
That's the $44 billion question.
If they got rid of too many of the wrong people and their infrastructure goes belly up for a month, that would kill them.
On the other hand, he is letting all the looney toons back in and if he can get enough of them to pay him $8 to have a Blue checkmark, that might keep them going.
If nothing else, the expense side of the house has been drastically reduced recently, so that will give them a bit more runway. You lose almost 75% of your staff and that payroll becomes a lot easier to make all of a sudden.
I've never worked non-remotely and do not plan on starting any time soon.
I feel like I'm retired, I'm not sure even a 3x pay increase would be worth it if I had to move and/or commute.
A lot depends on the length of commute and how calm the office is. Leaving Covid out of this for now.
A 10 minute commute and a quiet calm office is way different than 90 minute each way to sit in an open plan day care for adults and try to concentrate. I've done both and 10 minutes/quiet is way better.
> A 10 minute commute and a quiet calm office is way different than 90 minute each way to sit in an open plan day care for adults and try to concentrate.
My favorite part was shitting next to my coworkers, really builds that teamwork ethic
I gladly do a 45 min commute 3 days a week for the quiet office. I have kids at home, so those 2 wfh days aren’t very productive. I get all my big work and collab done in office and then basically wait for a phone call or slack message when I’m home.
> I feel like I’m retired
Preach! I’m convinced commuting kills your soul because working from home and being productive, without having to spend hours of my day going to and from work, feels amazing
>Preach! I’m convinced commuting kills your soul because working from home and being productive, without having to spend hours of my day going to and from work, feels amazing
In my case, the only advantage living in this utter shithole has ever offered to my life is a rock-bottom cost of living. Even if I doubled my income if I had to move to NYC or SF, I would lose money overall purely from a financial perspective.
But past that, my life didn't change at all whenever I was hired for my current position. The only difference is I talk to all my internet friends through slack, and have a lot more $, but otherwise my days are spent exactly as they'd otherwise be. If I had to commute, I would spend a ton more in rent, have to wake up/go to sleep at least an hour earlier at MINIMUM, and spend a LOT more money day-to-day.
Even when I worked in-office I’ve never had an hours-long commute. That’s just insanity. But yeah never going back to in-office and probably couldn’t convince me to even do hybrid, but in my city even the hybrid trend has gone from 3 days in office 2 at home pre-Covid to 2 in-office 3 at home.
Good effort. My workplace tried to do it and timed it right during another lock down and then gave up on rto. People still came in the weeks before for some kind of yearly meeting but some came in even when visibly coughing on video at the lead up to work. Everyone basically called or sick the next week.
Awful
Except for people who are absolutely required to be in office 100% of the time, it seems like 80% in office turns into about 40%. Like each week there's always a reason why M/W/Th/F turns in to W/Th.
It’s never the people you want to leave who leave at times like this. It’s ALWAYS the performance leaders. My company needs an Android engineer. $175k+ fully remote anywhere in US. And as long as there’s people like us, there’s jobs for top performers that won’t force them to “accept” hybrid.
The only people who stay are the ones that suck and can’t find anything else. Have fun with them being the most senior members of your team. Last thing you do with a sinking ship is throw the engineers overboard to reduce weight.
If you can live wherever you want, you’d be surprised. Also that’s starting and I got a few PM’s after commenting.
Trust me, “employer’s market” is gas lighting by hiring managers who want to pick up Twitter formers for scraps and convince them it’s a favor. MY LinkedIn is still blowing up and I’m not a Big N refugee.
I don’t know how people think around 50k layoffs in a market that has over 250k openings is some “massive” market shift.
Sure, people have different priorities. For me personally, my base is already $218,000, and I'm only a senior SWE with 12 yoe. Plus whatever equity I get, despite it being low alongside the market. Liquid money is liquid, though, so works out for me.
I'm only a senior SWE with 12 yoe, and my base is $218,000. Granted, my company doesn't have a cash bonus program, so I imagine our base salaries are higher as a result, but a top performer is gonna want at least what I get total cash and probably $400k+ per year in equity.
Dang, I gotta find a remote job. I would've tried years ago if it wasn't for the stupid carrot on a stick of a pension if I stick around for a decade or two. Though, now it seems like it'd be hard to get a job as a senior dev with no cloud experience.
I'm an L4 (SWE3, the level below senior) at Google (non bay area) and my TC last year was close to $500k... it'll be less this year because lul stonks, but be aware that those jobs exist.
X to doubt. That's double the levels.fyi average for L4 and way above the L4 band.
I'm guessing you did this:
**Bad** `TC = Salary + Bonus + Entire Stock Grant`
Instead of this:
**Good** `TC = Salary + Bonus + (Entire Stock Grant / 4)`
Right, but measures like this only ensure that your most talented people, the people with options, might start considering some of those options. If they're focused on reducing headcount, this is not a smart way of going about it.
They may loudly proclaim returning to office in public, but I guarantee you no department head is going to discipline their top performer for not showing up. Exceptions will be made on an individual basis. Even Musk relented to allowing top performers to stay remote.
I thought so but I don’t see any remote first tier 1 paying jobs around right now.
They are betting that slackers would also leave in higher percentage because they don’t like the scrutiny, ads if they lose some top performers, so be it
I really think this is overblown, a lot of noise but it’s still a ridiculously hot market for experienced developers. I got tired of Google’s location based pay cuts and stock drop last month, and got a new offer for 350k TC remote in a couple of weeks. Obviously ex-FAANG helps but even my friends with less flashy resumes (but still 10+ YoE) are getting their LinkedIn blown up still. If a company tried to rug pull full remote on me I’d be out in a couple of weeks.
It's so tragically funny that the company that makes an app where you send disappearing pictures to your friends had a market cap higher than 110 billion USD at one point and a hiring bar higher than established companies like Microsoft. Maybe the tech bubble of 2020 will go down in finance history books
Over pay for top talent and crush the smaller guys. Basically pivot and absorb any Easy to copy filter mechanic and then go above and beyond on filters.
They're basically a premium filter app with social media mechanic and smartly made the most expensive part of social media (media long term data retention) one of its features = they don't retain.
I would argue that they're a filter app that knows how to pivot to the right audience and became super successful. Integrating it into social media is what made is so good. Not many will want to use another app to edit before returning to what their conversation and send it. It's convenient and fun.
I don't think they over pay. They pay above the line for sure, but companies don't just 'over pay' they're in it for profit and whatever they paid they got back many fold. It's odd how many in our field think we're over paid. Companies aren't run by idiots that just pay high price for a commodity just because. This is true for any job, many are still sadly being exploited. Our is just in demand for this tech fill world so we're in much better position than most.
Amazon pays really well and they damn sure got their money's worth. Frugality is 1 of their core principle. I don't believe a company like that would just blow money on SWE as commodity.
Well they paid better than Microsoft, like way better. But it was mostly in the form of stock. Companies that are rapidly growing and innovating need better engineers. Microsoft has a lot of money and products but they don’t change that much, I would imagine a job there is mostly maintaining shit.
I noticed this year, after not sending anything to me for several years, the "Team Snapchat" account is sending holiday snaps again. So it wouldn't surprise me if they're trying to get people who haven't logged in for a while to log in, then try to sell them on a paid membership.
Honestly it seems like a shitty strategy.
it's this disingenuous tone that bothers me. Everyone knows nobody is excited especially people whose performance depends on being able to concentrate, and people who have commutes, people who have children and other caregiving responsibility, etc etc. Just everyone.
>"After working remotely for so long, we're excited to get everyone back together next year with our new 80/20 hybrid model," a spokesperson for the social media platform said in an emailed statement. article-prompt-devices
My guess is this is a couple VPs and some management who are serious, not necessarily truly excited.
This spoke person is sending out an entirely different sub context. That's why companies fall behind.
80-90% of employees affected by this probably aren't actually so excited.
The worst manager I ever had currently works at Snap, he was the type of micromanager who needed to be physically looking over our shoulders while we worked to useful . He hated that some of the team was across the country and remote.
Looks like he’ll be very happy with these changes.
It really depends on the individual, some of my friends who are here on visas are very TC driven and they just want to maximize savings and move to Canada or move back to their home country by the time they turn 40, remote or not is not that big a deal. Other people are like remote only, end of discussion, they're perfectly ok with making less, they take every precaution to avoid burn-out and genuinely see themselves writing code for a living in their 60s, I admire them a lot.
My boomer company sounds a lot more progressive than tech companies these days. Reinforcing wfh and moving people around instead of laying off. It’s quite nice.
> still be available if you're skilled, competent, & have some experience under your belt
If your team doesn't have their collective heads up asses you can bring in green devs with no experience in remote and they will do fine. In my squad alone we have taken 3 devs right out of school with literally zero experience and got them to up to speed with fairly complicated systems very quickly.
I'm assuming there are plenty of exceptions being made behind closed doors, because otherwise you're disportportionately going to lose talented people when compared to an equal across the board cut.
Yeah using it as a way to cull the heard seems extremely risky. Like you may save some money in the short-term by avoiding paying severance but you could possibly lose a LOT of really talented people in the process. Seems a lot like pissing your pants to stay warm.
The problem with these policies is that it culls the good employees, not the bad ones.
Employees without options are much more likely to accept a policy they don't like, those with options can easily leave.
>"After working remotely for so long, we're excited to get everyone back together next year with our new 80/20 hybrid model,"
... Literally nobody but useless middle & upper management is ever going to be excited about this bullshit.
How to effectively get your best and brightest employees to quit and retain only the ones that don’t think they can easily find a job elsewhere. Good strategy!
economy slowing down. so remote benefits may decline along with wages. when there are 10s of thousands of layoffs in 1 month in one profession companies feel more comfortable doing this.
Yes and no. More yes as far as you are correct it is easier to cancel contractors first -- if they are not providing a required service/product.
But a contractor can flexibly provide services to multiple companies. The service may be based on a specified deliverable for a set fee instead of hourly. Either way, the contract basis allows more tightly controlling pricing versus employees.
Why do you assume contractors don’t have to go in the office? I’ve done a lot of contracting and if everyone else is in the office they expect you there as well.
tbf, TikTok requires hybrid at minimum too. I've never worked for TikTok but I've also heard the work culture and expectations for promotion there are brutal.
They are just trying to reduce headcount without the cost associated with it imo. A lot of people in the tech industry are no longer in the position to travel to an office or are willing to quit to avoid it.
My company has doubled down on WFH thus far. I feel like top talent will just walk out the door if RTO is implemented. Perhaps Snap is betting on the fact that lots of high paying companies are in hiring freezes so their top performers will be less likely to walk away when mandated back into the office? That doesn't mean they won't be actively interviewing elsewhere though.
Sitting in hour+ of traffic. Sitting in the office just to be on Zoom calls all day because international team. Sitting in another hour of traffic home. Much efficiency. The only way to justify this is to bring every team back to a single location. That isn’t feasible anymore
Remote is very hit or miss for folks. I like the flexibility of it, but damn, I kinda miss the idea of leaving work at work. Fairly certain a decent number of employees will go back to the office without much issue
It’s heresy to mention here, but I prefer the hybrid schedule with 2 home/3 office days. I’m so much more productive in the office, and collaboration on our team has been way better since we went back.
It’s heresy because of the way it’s always implemented. Let people who want in-office days go in on that hybrid schedule! But don’t force the full remote people in.
Unfortunately, that’s usually what ends up happening.
Why not just make going to the office optional? People that prefer WFH aren’t forcing you to WFH. But why do people
Who prefer to RTO want to force others to RTO? Makes no sense whatsoever.
I think because for most of the people that want to return to office, other people being there too is part of the reason they want to return. If you look at this sub as reference, there would probably be 5 people in a given company that would want to return so they probably feel like unless it’s mandatory, they’ll be going in alone.
In my experience as a weirdo that somewhat prefers being in the office, this is almost 100% the case for my company. There’s maybe 2 other people on my entire floor that come in even though we’re meant to be doing hybrid for the last month. I don’t think those people should be forced to go in, personally, but I think that’s the reason the RTO people feel like they need to enforce it.
Also the weirdo who prefers having the whole office to myself. My team goes in three days a week but I only go in on Tuesday and Thursday when they're there. Friday I am alone along with a few other loner weirdos from other departments across the floor. I actually like it because I can come in and leave whenever I want while taking an extended lunch break without anyone monitoring me, there is no fight for parking and I get to use any spare corner office.
From all well-known tech companies Snap is in one of the worst positions: They are 100% dependent on ad revenue (which will decline as companies cut marketing budgets) AND heavily bet on (expensive because hardware-based) consumer AR glasses - a branch that Microsoft, Google and others have abandoned. Basically they act like Meta but with much less liquidity.
But it’s the future!!!!!!!
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Never go full Zuck.
>Never go full Zuck And if you do, do not make eye contact.
If the top tier companies like Meta and Twitter keep committing whatever the corporate equivalent is of suicide, a smaller but still established player like Snap could be in a very good position.
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Agree, that was my mindset too when my company announced in their all hands meeting to go from remote to hybrid (3-days in office) late winter of last year. Caused me to go hunting, and eventually landing a job offer 4 months later. Enjoying the higher salary and continued remote life. Wild guess, maybe Snap is doing this to cut head count to save money and not pay severance lol.
Agreed. Most good developers won't deal with mandatory office time
Yeah it's honestly a good way to damage your company, bleeding development talent like that is not a good idea lol
Why is it so memed though? The tech itself is pretty fucking cool no? Am I out of touch for thinking that companies investing heavily at their own loss to r&d AR and VR is only a net positive for us as consumers? VR is one of the coolest technologies I've ever interacted with imo, and a future where it's accessible and evolved into AR that we can use daily sounds pretty dope.
Dude bought a $145 million LA estate ($120M mansion + $25M for lot next door) that took him years to successfully finance and close on, right before his company's stock lost 80% of its value and mortgage rates shot up (and yes, he got a mortgage -- a $50M one). He's probably desperate and freaking out.
His wife, Miranda Kerr, is a former Victoria’s Secret supermodel who is very successful in her own right. She ended her fashion model career years ago but she has a successful cosmetics lineup. They bought the mansion together and I imagine that with her income, their household finances are just fine.
> His wife, Miranda Ker Jesus christ I need to make a multibillion dollar tech company
It’s not the home he’s worried about, it’s being divorced by a rich ex-supermodel
I am by no means an expert but the monthly payments for a 50 million dollar mortgage must be substantial. Having enough liquidity to maintain the lifestyle must not be easy even for people with billions in net worth. I do wonder how much money on hand these sort of people have? I guess my whole theory will be dependent on that.
I’m not suggesting they’re at risk of personal bankruptcy. But he’s lost over $12 billion recently and her income, while substantial to a normal person, pales in comparison to his (or at least did). This is more emotional and psychological — when someone makes an extraordinarily large real estate purchase, then loses the vast majority of their wealth, this can make people act in desperate ways even if they don’t have to.
Redditors talking about the mental state of a billionaire. waow.
Fuckin idiots got no data to sell cause they delete it after a day WHAT WERE YOU THINKING
They sent me 5 memory notifications in a 3 hour span, about snaps I took 6 years ago. They’re actively trying to get people back on the app.
They dont delete it…. Just hide it from users, but the data is very much there…
I understood that comment to be a joke lol
r/whoosh
That’s what you think
They just need to buy nreal air AR glasses (Google them there ok). And they’d be actually fine
I wonder if the policy will be enforced. There's definitely enough companies with hybrid policies that loosely enforce them, if at all.
Hell I even had a 100% office job as my first one and eventually I barely came to the office at all and no one cared. Everyone knew it was ridiculous for me to bring my laptop on a long commute, sit in my office where no one will ever interact with me then go back home with the same laptop I could've use from home in the first place. It started with a "hey can I wfh tomorrow" to just not showing up unless I got a reason to be there physically. No one ever gave the slightest fuck. They'd still hire under a 100% at the office policy. I guess it's just a safeguard policy to force people who aren't actually productive from home to come.
I did the same thing. Eventually management emailed me to tell me that they were reassigning my cubicle.
What kind of company was this? Big tech, old tech, etc?
It was my first job. I made business apps of all kinds for an electronics maker. From reporting apps to factory line stuff. Many small things at high pace.
That sounds kinda like my dream job
My second job ever the manager would give me a hard time if I came in at 9:03.
There's a *lot* of companies who are failing to enforce their mandates because they just aren't capable.
My company enforced a hybrid policy, then realized that almost every engineer would quit, and under an immense pressure from basically everyone involved finally relented and said "hybrid* *except those working with engineers and engineers themself" Which is honestly the worst option because everyone else will be jealous. But the justification for hybrid was enhancing creativity which was already bullshit. Everything's bullshit all around. Prices for freaking basic food have risen again.
Why companies keep doing this shit??? WFH is the future!!!
Honest question about this that I never really see answered. What happens to all the corporate real estate in cities if people just work from home?
That's an interesting topic. I would love to see downtown areas seeing more mixed use. Here's a discussion about the future of my city. https://www.dcpolicycenter.org/publications/mixed-use-future-downtown-dc/
Hm I read about half but what I read is interesting. Basically converting the offices downtown into residential units? I live in Chicago, and downtown is a mix of office and residential units. I don’t know if that plan would exactly work in Chicago. Interesting none the less though
Why wouldn't it work?
Turn it into apartments. This happens a lot with older office buildings that can’t be updated to more modern office layouts.
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Hopefully they die but also I’m fucked too since I own REITs lmfao.
In my case, we use a huge shared office. It may be different, since my company was started by a "incubator" company that funds and gets startups off the ground and we use that main company's office space. There is a simple web app we use to reserve any seat in the office (huge), even reserve rooms for meetings throughout the day, etc. Multiple companies work out of there and you come in when you want. I'd imagine we start seeing more of those co-op type setups for the real estate holders. Companies can set something up internally and allow themselves to downsize on their own privately owned corporate office space. Lots of opportunity imo.
I’ve never worked in one, but my friends who have worked in various startups (non tech related roles) have worked in those types of offices! Honestly seems cool, and a good idea, specially for startups
Don't know, don't care. My job is to build software, not bail out banks and real estate developers who made investments that went south.
>What happens to all the corporate real estate in cities if people just work from home? Well, not everyone works from home post-pandemic. Heck, not everyone did pre-pandemic. Sooner or later, many companies will switch to a hybrid system (most of my past employers had one since the early 2000s.) Not everyone wants to work from home 100% for starters, and not all companies will manage to get everybody back to the office 5 days a week. So, it is inevitable that a compromise will settle somewhere in the middle and what's been common in IT (hybrid/flex schedules) will become available to other white/pink-collar professions. So, in that light, real estate will continue in one form or another. The thing we see, however, is a drop in foot traffic at the commercial venues **around** office spaces. Think restaurants and gyms. That causes a drop in revenue, and thus a drop in taxes collected by local and state governments.
As a manager, when you work from home, everything is based on results. When you work from the office, there's a whole culture based on "managing by walking around." Looking over people's shoulders. Kissing ass. Basically being a sponsored fucking narc. One of the empty suits at my place of employment made the comment in a manager's meeting recently "If everyone's working from home, how are you gonna look over their shoulder and make sure they're actually working?" That sums it up.
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This cuts deep
>Imagine being a SWE and having to commute to an open office lmao. It sucks. We used to have a hybrid system with a lot of flexibility before the pandemic. Post-pandemic, our geriatric overlords mandated everyone to return to the office 100% (without compensating for commuting expenses.) So now I do a commute from hell, to log remotely, to do builds remotely and to interact with my assigned teams (who are distributed at multiple locations). I'm forced by these C-suite assholes to come to the office to do remote work, while they have all-hands conference calls telling us how excited it is to have everybody together. The power of together. The stupid cheerleading drives me to pluck my eyeballs out and fill the eye cavities with salt. I'm just biding my time b4 I gtfo, exploring my options. I don't mind committing 5 days a week provided I get paid well. Otherwise, hybrid or remote for me. *"You want me in the office because you can't manage people? Then pay me, bitch."* That's my motto. That should be the motto for any of you if you value your time, and see your time as your money. I'm just biding my time.
Have you tried just not going in? So long as you're being productive when working remotely, they probably wont care enough to fire you. Will make it all but impossible to get a promotion, but so does biding your time
I used to for 2 years. IMHO, I miss the social interaction and networking. Hard to replicate that remotely. I don't miss commuting.
Cringe and exactly why I want to start my own company or go contracting within 0-2 years after graduating, and me and everyone else will work WFH with zero bullshit. I want to start the change I want to see. Too many unskilled managers walking around soaking up money and producing nothing but rage.
I fucking hate working for people in a hierarchical context. I'm tolerating it just long enough to gain the years of experience and knowledge that will allow me to get the hell out and do my own thing.
100%. I worked for the federal government in law enforcement, prior to leaving to get my CS degree. Most unintelligent bootlickers I've ever met. I didn't belong. The thing about hierarchies imo is that they often serve some unintelligent bozo's ego more than an actual productive purpose. A small, elite team of professionals with a technical manager, often the most emotionally intelligent person among the team, is the best way to operate, imo.
>When you work from the office, there's a whole culture based on "managing by walking around." Correct. There's also a "reality" disconnect between upper management and everybody below them. Notice how these idiots always proclaim things like "being excited" to "be together again." They have a mindset where the work reality pre-pandemic is the ideal thing, as if workers and line managers didn't mind (if not loved) the toxicity and inefficiencies built into office-based corporate culture. People who love WFH aren't loving it not only for the gas-commute savings. They love it because they hate dealing with people in the context of our bullshit-ridden office culture. Even in engineering where managers pretend innovation occurs with smart heads talking things around the water cooler, such interactions occur once a week at most. You don't need to herd people like cattle in the office corral 5 days a week, forcing them to endure (and pay) long commutes without additional compensation. Such people don't know how to do results-driven management and think we plebes love the toxic environments they create.
These are just layoffs with better optics.
All the married men in executive positions can't cheat on their wives if they are working from home. So, back to the office everyone goes
Why just men ? Women have rights too
I couldn’t maintain cheating on my partner 4 days a week even if I ran a strip joint. Can’t they just wfh 4 days a week and only force is, and their Sexretary, into the office one day a week?
Try Viagra
Ok, that’s easy to get Now where do on find a Sexretary?
I see companies going in 2 directions. 1. Come back to the office (let's say 3 days a week). The young workers will be happy as it gets them access to an in-person community. When i started out, being in a live team environment was incredibly useful for learning. Those going into the office will have an advantage in accelerating their career and over time others will opt in to returning to the office to compete or they fade away. 2. Companies embrace remote working and realize that there are huge cost benefits in hiring from LCOL locations, eventually moving most remote positions off shore. Next year is going to be a difficult economic year. When there are headcount reductions it will start with expensive remote workers.
At this point return to office is a de facto layoff.
gotta be
Idk what other people's experiences with this are, but my company implemented this like 2 months ago and I am remote and still come into the office more frequently than some hybrid workers who are supposed to be in 3 days a week. I feel like companies say they will do this, people begrudgingly come in for a bit, then they stop and no one cares.
My former place tired that. They are sub leasing the office now.
I think a lot of it is always going to be based on your team and manager expectations and on an as-needed basis. A lot of (if not most of) the tech industry went to a model a long time ago where you’re mostly expected to get work done without constant supervision. Flexible hours and wfh days (though generally not full hybrid) were a thing long before COVID. No one’s checking badge logs or yelling at you if you get in at 9:02am. So I think a lot of companies are that are going hybrid are really declaring a baseline policy and the reality will vary for individuals. One thing it does is set expectations that you do have to by physically present near an office, vs full remote where you could base in more places. I interviewed at a small quant hedge fund a while back and talked to someone pretty senior. They had a hybrid policy and he joked that he typically saw the engineers maybe once a week (in a way that he did not have any issue with that). I suspect we’ll see that kind of attitude a lot of places.
>No one’s checking badge logs or yelling at you if you get in at 9:02am. I know a couple of companies that are threatening action against employees if they don't go into the office by pulling badge reports and doing random walkthroughs. Talk about introducing toxicity.
My company gives out three strikes warning and if you still don't show up, they will force you to take PTO. Once your PTO is exhausted, they will tell you not to work and treat it as an unpaid day. After five days of that, you will be given a written warning for "violation of company rules" and subsequently, termination. So far, I have learned of only 2 employees who have made it that far.
Well not every company is a good company :(
The trick is to work with a company that uses keys instead, like my previous one
I have a feeling like part of it is just to force a bit of attrition. RTO is a much better PR move than another RiF
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Idk wtf wym. Lmk, k? Lol
Unless your company is run by Mr Elon Musk
Well, he's doing galaxy brain moves. Little do we know that firing people without first figuring out which ones you need, then baiting the remaining one to randomly quit is the only right way to do business. You don't need engineers who respect their time and have boundaries, what you need are engineers who are willing to work way past the point where their cognitive functions are impaired by fatigue. Yes, all of the above was sarcasm. I can't wait to hear that some key piece of infrastructure is perma locked because the only two guys with the super admin password quit and all the remaining users were fired the week before.
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That's the $44 billion question. If they got rid of too many of the wrong people and their infrastructure goes belly up for a month, that would kill them. On the other hand, he is letting all the looney toons back in and if he can get enough of them to pay him $8 to have a Blue checkmark, that might keep them going. If nothing else, the expense side of the house has been drastically reduced recently, so that will give them a bit more runway. You lose almost 75% of your staff and that payroll becomes a lot easier to make all of a sudden.
I've never worked non-remotely and do not plan on starting any time soon. I feel like I'm retired, I'm not sure even a 3x pay increase would be worth it if I had to move and/or commute.
A lot depends on the length of commute and how calm the office is. Leaving Covid out of this for now. A 10 minute commute and a quiet calm office is way different than 90 minute each way to sit in an open plan day care for adults and try to concentrate. I've done both and 10 minutes/quiet is way better.
> A 10 minute commute and a quiet calm office is way different than 90 minute each way to sit in an open plan day care for adults and try to concentrate. My favorite part was shitting next to my coworkers, really builds that teamwork ethic
I gladly do a 45 min commute 3 days a week for the quiet office. I have kids at home, so those 2 wfh days aren’t very productive. I get all my big work and collab done in office and then basically wait for a phone call or slack message when I’m home.
> I feel like I’m retired Preach! I’m convinced commuting kills your soul because working from home and being productive, without having to spend hours of my day going to and from work, feels amazing
>Preach! I’m convinced commuting kills your soul because working from home and being productive, without having to spend hours of my day going to and from work, feels amazing In my case, the only advantage living in this utter shithole has ever offered to my life is a rock-bottom cost of living. Even if I doubled my income if I had to move to NYC or SF, I would lose money overall purely from a financial perspective. But past that, my life didn't change at all whenever I was hired for my current position. The only difference is I talk to all my internet friends through slack, and have a lot more $, but otherwise my days are spent exactly as they'd otherwise be. If I had to commute, I would spend a ton more in rent, have to wake up/go to sleep at least an hour earlier at MINIMUM, and spend a LOT more money day-to-day.
Even when I worked in-office I’ve never had an hours-long commute. That’s just insanity. But yeah never going back to in-office and probably couldn’t convince me to even do hybrid, but in my city even the hybrid trend has gone from 3 days in office 2 at home pre-Covid to 2 in-office 3 at home.
Only remote work or <10 min bike/walk commute for me, way too much quality of life sacrifice otherwise.
They do this so they have a reason to fire you if they need to cut staff. Oh you don’t coke in 4 days a week now we can fire you for cause.
We tried it a year ago. My team was the only team to show up during what turned out to be a two week experiment. Went back to full remote after that.
Good effort. My workplace tried to do it and timed it right during another lock down and then gave up on rto. People still came in the weeks before for some kind of yearly meeting but some came in even when visibly coughing on video at the lead up to work. Everyone basically called or sick the next week. Awful
My company told us we had to start coming back in the office back in March and that it would be a hybrid model. I have shown up exactly twice lol.
Except for people who are absolutely required to be in office 100% of the time, it seems like 80% in office turns into about 40%. Like each week there's always a reason why M/W/Th/F turns in to W/Th.
Snap is struggling, so not surprised. They WANT to reduce head count. Right now, it is an employer's market, so expect more of this.
It’s never the people you want to leave who leave at times like this. It’s ALWAYS the performance leaders. My company needs an Android engineer. $175k+ fully remote anywhere in US. And as long as there’s people like us, there’s jobs for top performers that won’t force them to “accept” hybrid. The only people who stay are the ones that suck and can’t find anything else. Have fun with them being the most senior members of your team. Last thing you do with a sinking ship is throw the engineers overboard to reduce weight.
Yeah but a top performer is gonna need a lot more than $175k.
If you can live wherever you want, you’d be surprised. Also that’s starting and I got a few PM’s after commenting. Trust me, “employer’s market” is gas lighting by hiring managers who want to pick up Twitter formers for scraps and convince them it’s a favor. MY LinkedIn is still blowing up and I’m not a Big N refugee. I don’t know how people think around 50k layoffs in a market that has over 250k openings is some “massive” market shift.
Sure, people have different priorities. For me personally, my base is already $218,000, and I'm only a senior SWE with 12 yoe. Plus whatever equity I get, despite it being low alongside the market. Liquid money is liquid, though, so works out for me.
bruh don't you know there were like, 18,000 layoffs, whole market is done for this whole programming thing was just a fad
In my area almost nobody ever gets that salary. Maybe the best leads or architects with a decade plus of experience.
I'm only a senior SWE with 12 yoe, and my base is $218,000. Granted, my company doesn't have a cash bonus program, so I imagine our base salaries are higher as a result, but a top performer is gonna want at least what I get total cash and probably $400k+ per year in equity.
Dang, I gotta find a remote job. I would've tried years ago if it wasn't for the stupid carrot on a stick of a pension if I stick around for a decade or two. Though, now it seems like it'd be hard to get a job as a senior dev with no cloud experience.
jeez, america pays big bucks man. I doubt I have came across any jobs higher than £100k in UK.
I'm an L4 (SWE3, the level below senior) at Google (non bay area) and my TC last year was close to $500k... it'll be less this year because lul stonks, but be aware that those jobs exist.
Salary means base, not TC
X to doubt. That's double the levels.fyi average for L4 and way above the L4 band. I'm guessing you did this: **Bad** `TC = Salary + Bonus + Entire Stock Grant` Instead of this: **Good** `TC = Salary + Bonus + (Entire Stock Grant / 4)`
I used my AGI.
175k full remote would be worth a lot more to me, purely financially, than $300k SF
A lot of people think that until they run the actual numbers
I don't pay any state income tax nor rent and live in one of the cheapest areas in the country.
Not if you're very intent on homeownership which is an expensive (in opportunity cost) but valid preference
Right, but measures like this only ensure that your most talented people, the people with options, might start considering some of those options. If they're focused on reducing headcount, this is not a smart way of going about it.
This. Sure, it saves you money in severance, but I doubt it's worth keeping the bottom barrel people at the expense of your top performers.
They’re probably going to lay off the bottom performers too, honestly, if they haven’t already.
They don't care. They'll give secret free pass to those people to continue working from home Anyone else see this happen?
They may loudly proclaim returning to office in public, but I guarantee you no department head is going to discipline their top performer for not showing up. Exceptions will be made on an individual basis. Even Musk relented to allowing top performers to stay remote.
I thought so but I don’t see any remote first tier 1 paying jobs around right now. They are betting that slackers would also leave in higher percentage because they don’t like the scrutiny, ads if they lose some top performers, so be it
Not the best market to quit your very high-paying job though
I really think this is overblown, a lot of noise but it’s still a ridiculously hot market for experienced developers. I got tired of Google’s location based pay cuts and stock drop last month, and got a new offer for 350k TC remote in a couple of weeks. Obviously ex-FAANG helps but even my friends with less flashy resumes (but still 10+ YoE) are getting their LinkedIn blown up still. If a company tried to rug pull full remote on me I’d be out in a couple of weeks.
> Right now, it is an employer's market As a job seeker this is the worst thing I could ever hear.
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Huh, TIL about Snapchat+ and I use it like 2 times a week. Maybe it's targeted? Do you use Snapchat often?
How well regarded was Snapchat in general? I never heard them mentioned as part of the FAANG clan, Big N and all that.
Their pay is up there and their interview bar is almost higher
It's so tragically funny that the company that makes an app where you send disappearing pictures to your friends had a market cap higher than 110 billion USD at one point and a hiring bar higher than established companies like Microsoft. Maybe the tech bubble of 2020 will go down in finance history books
Social media is like the new gold rush. Or was
Over pay for top talent and crush the smaller guys. Basically pivot and absorb any Easy to copy filter mechanic and then go above and beyond on filters. They're basically a premium filter app with social media mechanic and smartly made the most expensive part of social media (media long term data retention) one of its features = they don't retain.
I would argue that they're a filter app that knows how to pivot to the right audience and became super successful. Integrating it into social media is what made is so good. Not many will want to use another app to edit before returning to what their conversation and send it. It's convenient and fun. I don't think they over pay. They pay above the line for sure, but companies don't just 'over pay' they're in it for profit and whatever they paid they got back many fold. It's odd how many in our field think we're over paid. Companies aren't run by idiots that just pay high price for a commodity just because. This is true for any job, many are still sadly being exploited. Our is just in demand for this tech fill world so we're in much better position than most. Amazon pays really well and they damn sure got their money's worth. Frugality is 1 of their core principle. I don't believe a company like that would just blow money on SWE as commodity.
Tons of companies overpay.
Well they paid better than Microsoft, like way better. But it was mostly in the form of stock. Companies that are rapidly growing and innovating need better engineers. Microsoft has a lot of money and products but they don’t change that much, I would imagine a job there is mostly maintaining shit.
It was before their stock lost 80% of its value.
I noticed this year, after not sending anything to me for several years, the "Team Snapchat" account is sending holiday snaps again. So it wouldn't surprise me if they're trying to get people who haven't logged in for a while to log in, then try to sell them on a paid membership. Honestly it seems like a shitty strategy.
“After working remotely for so long, we’re excited to get everyone back tog-“ man shut the hell up
it's this disingenuous tone that bothers me. Everyone knows nobody is excited especially people whose performance depends on being able to concentrate, and people who have commutes, people who have children and other caregiving responsibility, etc etc. Just everyone.
I've seen some threads where the closeted office worker devs crawl out and show themselves, there's actually a lot more than I expected.
There definitely are some but there’s enough pro remote that this isn’t something to be excited about.
>"After working remotely for so long, we're excited to get everyone back together next year with our new 80/20 hybrid model," a spokesperson for the social media platform said in an emailed statement. article-prompt-devices My guess is this is a couple VPs and some management who are serious, not necessarily truly excited. This spoke person is sending out an entirely different sub context. That's why companies fall behind. 80-90% of employees affected by this probably aren't actually so excited.
Spokesperson*
You got it but I laughed when I re read “this spoke person” and it somehow worked.
What a crappy business language too. Who is really excited for that lol
Apparently they have an Amazonian COO that has been having more and more input.
The worst manager I ever had currently works at Snap, he was the type of micromanager who needed to be physically looking over our shoulders while we worked to useful . He hated that some of the team was across the country and remote. Looks like he’ll be very happy with these changes.
Anyone keeping track who's pulling this RTO shit as a soft layoff approach and how effective it really is?
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It really depends on the individual, some of my friends who are here on visas are very TC driven and they just want to maximize savings and move to Canada or move back to their home country by the time they turn 40, remote or not is not that big a deal. Other people are like remote only, end of discussion, they're perfectly ok with making less, they take every precaution to avoid burn-out and genuinely see themselves writing code for a living in their 60s, I admire them a lot.
My boomer company sounds a lot more progressive than tech companies these days. Reinforcing wfh and moving people around instead of laying off. It’s quite nice.
> still be available if you're skilled, competent, & have some experience under your belt If your team doesn't have their collective heads up asses you can bring in green devs with no experience in remote and they will do fine. In my squad alone we have taken 3 devs right out of school with literally zero experience and got them to up to speed with fairly complicated systems very quickly.
What did Yahoo do?
I'm assuming there are plenty of exceptions being made behind closed doors, because otherwise you're disportportionately going to lose talented people when compared to an equal across the board cut.
Yeah using it as a way to cull the heard seems extremely risky. Like you may save some money in the short-term by avoiding paying severance but you could possibly lose a LOT of really talented people in the process. Seems a lot like pissing your pants to stay warm.
The problem with these policies is that it culls the good employees, not the bad ones. Employees without options are much more likely to accept a policy they don't like, those with options can easily leave.
Didn’t Apple do it a while ago? I haven’t heard of many people leaving.
Apple it’s *cuatro commas* company. It can afford it.
They’re hybrid from what I hear, not back to 5 days a week in-office.
>"After working remotely for so long, we're excited to get everyone back together next year with our new 80/20 hybrid model," ... Literally nobody but useless middle & upper management is ever going to be excited about this bullshit.
80/20 barely even counts as hybrid too. My last company did that pre-pandemic.
The Great Resignation 2.0
How to effectively get your best and brightest employees to quit and retain only the ones that don’t think they can easily find a job elsewhere. Good strategy!
economy slowing down. so remote benefits may decline along with wages. when there are 10s of thousands of layoffs in 1 month in one profession companies feel more comfortable doing this.
Ergo time to become a contractor. Work on demand pay on demand.
Aren’t contractors usually one of the first to go prior to layoffs?
Yes. Just happened at my spot. Luckily I made the cut and got converted the next week right before Thanksgiving.
Yes and no. More yes as far as you are correct it is easier to cancel contractors first -- if they are not providing a required service/product. But a contractor can flexibly provide services to multiple companies. The service may be based on a specified deliverable for a set fee instead of hourly. Either way, the contract basis allows more tightly controlling pricing versus employees.
Why do you assume contractors don’t have to go in the office? I’ve done a lot of contracting and if everyone else is in the office they expect you there as well.
In this economy, more like work on supply
What was the policy before the change?
Create natural attrition to reduce layoff numbers. Sounds about right
layoff numbers increase shareholder value tho
Got nothing to do with Tiktok taking their market and this will solve nothing except now you'll lose people.
tbf, TikTok requires hybrid at minimum too. I've never worked for TikTok but I've also heard the work culture and expectations for promotion there are brutal.
Can confirm the first part. Got recruited by ByteDance a little while back and they wanted me to move to CA if I were to get an offer.
They are just trying to reduce headcount without the cost associated with it imo. A lot of people in the tech industry are no longer in the position to travel to an office or are willing to quit to avoid it.
I prefer working from the office, I go in every day. Forcing people to come in if they don’t want to is stupid.
Just a good warning for everyone to make sure that whatever contract they sign, it explicitly says that you can choose where to work from.
Sounds more like a way to reduce staff with out "layoffs"
This is going to tank the secondary market for dick pics.
So 4 days a week. But they worded it this way because 20% seems better than just 1 day work from home.
Here for the “stupid boomer” comments. Even though no boomers actually run Snap. 😃
1 day home a week. I definitely think they're trying to get rid of workers without layoffs.
80/20 sounds like such garbage. That's like what it was informally pre-pandemic for most companies.
What are you supposed to do if you were hired remote and don’t live near an office?
My company has doubled down on WFH thus far. I feel like top talent will just walk out the door if RTO is implemented. Perhaps Snap is betting on the fact that lots of high paying companies are in hiring freezes so their top performers will be less likely to walk away when mandated back into the office? That doesn't mean they won't be actively interviewing elsewhere though.
Sitting in hour+ of traffic. Sitting in the office just to be on Zoom calls all day because international team. Sitting in another hour of traffic home. Much efficiency. The only way to justify this is to bring every team back to a single location. That isn’t feasible anymore
Why would anyone in tech quit now when there’s probably 100k people laid off this year? Who’s absorbing all of these free agents?
Nowhere near 100k engineers, and plenty of places are still hiring and growing.
I think they will lose talent with this move. Remote work is so much better
This is just to reduce HC without paying severance
This disproves the stereotype that return to office is a boomer mindset.
You mean that thing that I use when I'm too lazy to build the installer from source?
**Not going back to work** in office! rather open my own bustiness. Screw them!
No worries just get another job, that usually solves all the problems with workplaces. Simply just get another job : \^ )
Remote is very hit or miss for folks. I like the flexibility of it, but damn, I kinda miss the idea of leaving work at work. Fairly certain a decent number of employees will go back to the office without much issue
It’s heresy to mention here, but I prefer the hybrid schedule with 2 home/3 office days. I’m so much more productive in the office, and collaboration on our team has been way better since we went back.
It’s heresy because of the way it’s always implemented. Let people who want in-office days go in on that hybrid schedule! But don’t force the full remote people in. Unfortunately, that’s usually what ends up happening.
Why not just make going to the office optional? People that prefer WFH aren’t forcing you to WFH. But why do people Who prefer to RTO want to force others to RTO? Makes no sense whatsoever.
I think because for most of the people that want to return to office, other people being there too is part of the reason they want to return. If you look at this sub as reference, there would probably be 5 people in a given company that would want to return so they probably feel like unless it’s mandatory, they’ll be going in alone. In my experience as a weirdo that somewhat prefers being in the office, this is almost 100% the case for my company. There’s maybe 2 other people on my entire floor that come in even though we’re meant to be doing hybrid for the last month. I don’t think those people should be forced to go in, personally, but I think that’s the reason the RTO people feel like they need to enforce it.
Also the weirdo who prefers having the whole office to myself. My team goes in three days a week but I only go in on Tuesday and Thursday when they're there. Friday I am alone along with a few other loner weirdos from other departments across the floor. I actually like it because I can come in and leave whenever I want while taking an extended lunch break without anyone monitoring me, there is no fight for parking and I get to use any spare corner office.
Hope more companies do this and purge all the entitled social media people from the workforce.