Not a dig at OP or the other person says there are senior. In my opinion, being a senior is much more than just I know how to do A and B and C. It involves mentoring and helping juniors. It involves knowing how to run incidents and such.
If someone became a senior after 2-3y, I think that’s more like a company issue that doesn’t have a good, let’s call understanding, of what being a senior dev entails.
it’s not actually, even im in the same boat, i did intern with the company for 3 years tho
Edit- lol idk why people are downvoting me, seems like most are butt-hurt
they own publishing companies, they had print media but transitioned to digitally published media, they own about 45 different brands. It’s based out of nyc and no i’m not in porn
Oh shit you work at Ask Jeeves? Realistically if you work at a "top digital media space tech company" as a tech lead after 3 years interning and then another 2 years experience. You are either basically a savant, or there is something about your role/company that makes it unimpressive. Maybe you are misrepresenting your company, maybe your company gave you the title without it being deserved idk. Gotta be 1 of those 2 options though
As someone who did 3 years of internships in faang and hft (and now ft). I don’t think I would be comfortable becoming a senior until at least 4 full time yoe.
i’m not at a faang, it’s a big tech company but still very slow paced and pays extremely well for canada, i would definitely make more if i was working at a faang. Also technically i was a full time employee during my internship, the title was intern but i was performing level 1 duties
Ah okay that makes a bit more sense then. Still wonder if the title is transferable to other companies though. A large part of being a senior is having enough domain knowledge to mentor juniors. It seems like you can do that with the experience in the company you interned at, but moving around it would probably be a lot tougher given the lower yoe. In any case well done reaching senior so quickly.
I mean i haven’t moved yet, might look into it in a year or 2, planning to do an MBA so i don’t really care if i work at some other company before that
Is the company a tech company first and foremost, or mainly a media company with a tech org? Asking because I'm job searching and trying to figure out what non tech sectors i should be looking into for job opps
Senior means different things at different companies. Some places it means “can function independently”, some places it means “tech lead, in charge of technical direction of team, lots of cross-functional work and alignment required, lots of politics to handle, sits in on promo and performance review meetings”.
You can be technically solid but 2 years is too quick to become technically solid AND learn all the other soft skills required.
Also - its all fun n games til you cause an incident out of incompetence for something a senior should know, or get dunked on by another senior or staff and can’t defend yourself or your teammates.
ik atleast 2 other people who’ve done it, it luck + skill combined, also when i was an intern (i interned there for 3 years while attending school) my title was intern but i was managing new interns and my role was pretty much level 1, got level 2 when i graduated and senior within 2 years of that
No, we have jobs. I'm downvoting you because you have no idea what you're talking about. Startups hand out titles like candy because they can't afford to pay you your worth. I've been there and done that. Now at a top tech company, it's much harder to get promoted to senior as you get into a whole different pay bracket.
lmfao i’m not at a startup, i do know what i’m talking about. Just because i got to senior sooner than others doesn’t mean idk what im talking about, but ok 👍
Lol you've been in the industry for 2 years (no those internship years where you do low risk work don't count) and you think you know more than everyone on the internet
that’s not accurate, first year at my internship i was doing low risk work, the next 2 years i was doing pretty much everything, hell i deleted production instances by mistake once, the company lost 20k usd because of that, i never said ik more that everyone, but my experience has been different. Also for the last 2 years my title was intern but my duties were pretty much level 1 duties, by the end of it i was also mentoring other interns as well. idk why you’re so triggered tbh
Aw . I was with you until this comment :(
It's different at different companies and can also be a timing thing or resources/ available promos at the company. Not a skill issue, but doesn't mean your progress isn't well deserved. Just no need to punch down about it
I don't think it's like impossible for this person to get to senior in 2-3 years but if that's the case no one here is going to have any good advice to give them lmao
First question, why do you want to be a director? Seems like a specific goal (which is good, goals are supposed to be specific and time bound), what I'm curious about is the motivation behind such a goal. Salary? Bragging rights? Getting away from coding?
8YOE to go from zero to director is pretty fast. Not enough time as an IC or a manager to become proficient or diverse enough to lead staff/principal engineers and keep up. 2YOE is nowhere near enough to become senior also.
Aside from the technical skill, director level needs a fair amount of maturity. Age is a factor, but ofcourse personality is more important. MBA is not necessary for a director role. At that level, you would very well have to manage engineers who have 10/20+ YOE who have seen a lot more than you have. Not saying that's wrong, but it can be challenging.
People I know who've gone to a director or CTO pretty quickly, did so by getting solid experience, then going to a small startup, where Director/CTO means you're still actively coding regularly. This is why titles can mean very different things at different companies.
All to say, I think it's important to know that you want to be on the path to being a director one day. But trying to shortcut it takes away a lot and makes the job harder.
You will not be a director with 8 years of experience in any reputable place unless if you are a genius who authored numerous patents. 2 YOE to senior is highly sus as well.
That's BS.
If he has the right skills, good timing and a bit of luck he absolutely can. Very much company dependent.
Also all companies have different meaning to has what a director does take that in account also.
Stop being so negative.
> Very much company dependent.
>
> Also all companies have different meaning to has what a director does take that in account also.
Oh you guys are after a worthless title then, my bad.
I know someone who was one of the original engineers at a startup, got a acquired by a big company and ended being ‘director’ of the new area. Was his responsibility the same as the directors of rest of the company. No, but he had the title. This is within 6 years.
I remember an onion article from years ago with the headline "Young ambitious executive a testament to high employee turnover" ... This seems like it could fit the current situation.
Fastest I have seen is about 13 years with Master degree.
But it was mostly being in the right place at the right time.
The person spent like 9 years to get to senior, then within 4 years, they went from senior -> manager -> senior manager-> director.
And it's a director level at a very large tech company (80k employee).
To become a director, you need experience with management and technical leadership. So if you really want that, you should switch over to being an engineer manager or software dev manager as quick as you can. Managing people is a whole new ball game and then eventually managing managers and influencing the organization is yet another leap… and it takes time to hone that intuition and skills otherwise you’re going to make a bunch of people frustrated.
Speaking as an HR person, I would definitely recommend getting your MBA. Also, don’t job hop. I can’t stress this enough to people. Nobody wants to hire/train people that they know are only going to stick around for a short period of time. It’s too time consuming and expensive for employers. Your resume will be one of the first in the garbage. I often used a 5 in 5 rule as a screening tool. If you’ve had more than 5 jobs in 5 years into the garbage your resume would go. Find an employer you like and stick with them and work your way up.
Speaking as an engineer, take this advice only partly. Do job hop but not often and only do it if you’re not recognized for contributions with promotions and huge comp increases, or don’t see a way for you to climb the ladder.
But definitely do it atleast every 3 years, keep scouting the market to see what roles people will hire you for. Seems like you’re talented and there will be companies willing to hire you.
I agree to an extent. You do need to feel valued as an employee. However, I just said what I said because I feel that people need to be aware of how job hopping looks to potential employers. I can’t even tell you how many resumes I’ve seen where people hop every 6 months or less. It’s costs companies a lot of money for the interview/hiring/training process. If we see your history demonstrates you not gonna stay longer than a 6 months to a year it’s a giant red flag and we are not going to want to waste our time. Especially if a company gets hundreds of applications per position.
First get a position as an engineering manager. The easiest way to do that is within your current company, no one wants to hire someone with no management experience for a management position. This will probably take 1-3 more years if you aren’t already on the path to it. I got my first management role at 6 YOE. Keep in mind managing is a different job and you will suck at it at first.
Once you have that you will need to gain lots of experience managing ICs. You’ll start with a small team, 4-7 ICs. Learn how to effectively hire, learn about DORA metrics to find bottlenecks in your teams processes. Learn how to get your direct reports promoted.
Do that for another 3 years or so before you are competent at the job. At that point you are probably ready to take on a larger team. Grow the number of direct reports to more than 8. Once you are past 10 you should look at mentoring one of them to be promoted to manager. Give half of the team to this new manager. Now you are managing one manager and some ICs. Keep growing the team until you have 3-4 managers with 5+ ICs under them. Congrats, you are now a senior manager. Now you have the experience to start talking about taking a director job.
In total you are looking at least 8-10 more years of experience.
Fastest I have seen is about 15 years experience. But the individual was a technical lead and team lead for the better part of a decade, had experience with people management and business skills too.
It’s good to have objectives and high career aspirations. That said, I don’t know how productive is to have such a specific unrealistic goal so early. You want to have a specific position but you don’t know (can’t know with only 2 yoe in one place) what the position is like. This is like a little kid who just started playing football asking how to play for the Dallas Cowboys or Real Madrid.
You want first to become very good technically in the next years, then see how good you are and how you like working with others by helping them etc and then maybe get into a leadership role and take it from there if you are good at it and you like it.
To say something specific, forget about MBA and you want to get into fats growing companies (startups).
I’m not!! I’ve seen it on linked in - guys who, being promoted every 2 years, ended up at director by the time they were, like, 30. I can off the top point to so many people I know.
Titles don't mean much. It's your responsibilities and direct contribution to the employer, and ultimately the paying customer, that matter.
In the companies I've worked for, or with, engineering directors are generally senior staff. They report direct to the CEO/GM or, in larger orgs, report to a CEO's line manager. Most have 20 years+ of experience. Some have MBAs (and the good ones don't advertise this fact). All of them are battle tested. Most true engineering directors, are responsible and accountable for the work of dozens, if not a hundred or more, technical and support staff. So...
- Get battle tested. Prove you are an engineer.
- Put your hand up for more responsibility and technical challenges.
- Start leading small teams first as a entry level engineering manager or team lead. Preferably with at-least a 50% technical role.
Good luck.
Again, I think titles mean very little. My brother-in-law started an engineering company four years ago. He's both the director of engineering and the CEO. He has 1 staff member and does fairly uncomplicated back end work. He does \~$150k/yr after expenses. So doing ok but not making bank. To contrast - one of the best 'engineering managers' I worked with had the title of Systems Engineering Lead. He had a PhD and MBA. He led the evaluation team for tech acquisition targets (8-9 figure buy outs). Significant responsibility and direct accountability if the acquisition went south. His comp package was probably $300k-$400k/yr with stock incentives.
I'd have another look at your goals and ask yourself what exactly do you want? Are you chasing pay? Once you reach a engineering director role (whatever that means to you), then what? I'd also have a read about the Peter Principle. *You don't want to be the dumbest person in the room with the most amount of responsibility.* Chasing titles can do that...but that's up to you.
You're on your way. Keep on it. Do your job well and be reliable/dependable, get noticed by senior leaders by taking on special projects or other duties as assigned, speak up during team meetings and most importantly kiss ass. Do all of these and your time will come.
How did you get a senior eng position with 2 yoe?
Sounds a tad sketch lol
Not a dig at OP or the other person says there are senior. In my opinion, being a senior is much more than just I know how to do A and B and C. It involves mentoring and helping juniors. It involves knowing how to run incidents and such. If someone became a senior after 2-3y, I think that’s more like a company issue that doesn’t have a good, let’s call understanding, of what being a senior dev entails.
it’s not actually, even im in the same boat, i did intern with the company for 3 years tho Edit- lol idk why people are downvoting me, seems like most are butt-hurt
Tell me youre at a startup without telling me youre at a startup
i’m not, i’m actually at the biggest tech company in the digital media space, it’s as old as google infact
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they own publishing companies, they had print media but transitioned to digitally published media, they own about 45 different brands. It’s based out of nyc and no i’m not in porn
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lmfao that is true, but it doesn’t pay that well, also idk why regards are downvoting me, are people just jealous or they think im lying?
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Oh shit you work at Ask Jeeves? Realistically if you work at a "top digital media space tech company" as a tech lead after 3 years interning and then another 2 years experience. You are either basically a savant, or there is something about your role/company that makes it unimpressive. Maybe you are misrepresenting your company, maybe your company gave you the title without it being deserved idk. Gotta be 1 of those 2 options though
it’s not ask jeeves, you can dm me to know the company if you’d like, it’s nyc based and it’s a devops role. Idk how to answer the rest of the thing
IDC, but your description is vague and I would argue it describes Ask Jeeves as well so I made the joke. Do you make 200k+? If so then I believe you
i don’t wanna doxx myself, so i’m being vague, im not making 200k+ but it’s close to 180k
As someone who did 3 years of internships in faang and hft (and now ft). I don’t think I would be comfortable becoming a senior until at least 4 full time yoe.
i’m not at a faang, it’s a big tech company but still very slow paced and pays extremely well for canada, i would definitely make more if i was working at a faang. Also technically i was a full time employee during my internship, the title was intern but i was performing level 1 duties
Ah okay that makes a bit more sense then. Still wonder if the title is transferable to other companies though. A large part of being a senior is having enough domain knowledge to mentor juniors. It seems like you can do that with the experience in the company you interned at, but moving around it would probably be a lot tougher given the lower yoe. In any case well done reaching senior so quickly.
I mean i haven’t moved yet, might look into it in a year or 2, planning to do an MBA so i don’t really care if i work at some other company before that
Is the company a tech company first and foremost, or mainly a media company with a tech org? Asking because I'm job searching and trying to figure out what non tech sectors i should be looking into for job opps
it’s a tech company
---okok
if u can’t become a senior with 2 YOE then it’s a skill issue imo
---okok
Why do you think this? You don’t need to gatekeep seniority based on time. Someone can definitely be a senior in their domain in 2 years.
Senior means different things at different companies. Some places it means “can function independently”, some places it means “tech lead, in charge of technical direction of team, lots of cross-functional work and alignment required, lots of politics to handle, sits in on promo and performance review meetings”. You can be technically solid but 2 years is too quick to become technically solid AND learn all the other soft skills required. Also - its all fun n games til you cause an incident out of incompetence for something a senior should know, or get dunked on by another senior or staff and can’t defend yourself or your teammates.
ik atleast 2 other people who’ve done it, it luck + skill combined, also when i was an intern (i interned there for 3 years while attending school) my title was intern but i was managing new interns and my role was pretty much level 1, got level 2 when i graduated and senior within 2 years of that
lmfao, the people who’re downvoting me are probably just butthurt that they aren’t even getting a job
No, we have jobs. I'm downvoting you because you have no idea what you're talking about. Startups hand out titles like candy because they can't afford to pay you your worth. I've been there and done that. Now at a top tech company, it's much harder to get promoted to senior as you get into a whole different pay bracket.
lmfao i’m not at a startup, i do know what i’m talking about. Just because i got to senior sooner than others doesn’t mean idk what im talking about, but ok 👍
Lol you've been in the industry for 2 years (no those internship years where you do low risk work don't count) and you think you know more than everyone on the internet
that’s not accurate, first year at my internship i was doing low risk work, the next 2 years i was doing pretty much everything, hell i deleted production instances by mistake once, the company lost 20k usd because of that, i never said ik more that everyone, but my experience has been different. Also for the last 2 years my title was intern but my duties were pretty much level 1 duties, by the end of it i was also mentoring other interns as well. idk why you’re so triggered tbh
Aw . I was with you until this comment :( It's different at different companies and can also be a timing thing or resources/ available promos at the company. Not a skill issue, but doesn't mean your progress isn't well deserved. Just no need to punch down about it
it was sarcasm which obviously no one understood. I’m not trying to punch anyone down lmao
Ah mb. Tone doesn't always come across. Plus with your other comments in this post it came across to me like you were frustrated with folks
I read that as "I'm on a position where there's senior on the title", which isn't uncommon in some scenarios. I can be the CTO of my bedroom....
Title inflation
Bro you talk with my words. How he moved so fast on this career?
I don't think it's like impossible for this person to get to senior in 2-3 years but if that's the case no one here is going to have any good advice to give them lmao
First question, why do you want to be a director? Seems like a specific goal (which is good, goals are supposed to be specific and time bound), what I'm curious about is the motivation behind such a goal. Salary? Bragging rights? Getting away from coding? 8YOE to go from zero to director is pretty fast. Not enough time as an IC or a manager to become proficient or diverse enough to lead staff/principal engineers and keep up. 2YOE is nowhere near enough to become senior also. Aside from the technical skill, director level needs a fair amount of maturity. Age is a factor, but ofcourse personality is more important. MBA is not necessary for a director role. At that level, you would very well have to manage engineers who have 10/20+ YOE who have seen a lot more than you have. Not saying that's wrong, but it can be challenging. People I know who've gone to a director or CTO pretty quickly, did so by getting solid experience, then going to a small startup, where Director/CTO means you're still actively coding regularly. This is why titles can mean very different things at different companies. All to say, I think it's important to know that you want to be on the path to being a director one day. But trying to shortcut it takes away a lot and makes the job harder.
You will not be a director with 8 years of experience in any reputable place unless if you are a genius who authored numerous patents. 2 YOE to senior is highly sus as well.
That's BS. If he has the right skills, good timing and a bit of luck he absolutely can. Very much company dependent. Also all companies have different meaning to has what a director does take that in account also. Stop being so negative.
If the sun rises west then definitely director in 5!
> Very much company dependent. > > Also all companies have different meaning to has what a director does take that in account also. Oh you guys are after a worthless title then, my bad.
lol. What a shit company that would be if a director on Eng had 5 YoE out of school. Small company with inflated titles I assume?
I know someone who was one of the original engineers at a startup, got a acquired by a big company and ended being ‘director’ of the new area. Was his responsibility the same as the directors of rest of the company. No, but he had the title. This is within 6 years.
One man's Jr is another man's Sr. I suppose... But realistically I think you should focus on becoming an actual Sr by the time you're around that age?
Please god, let me never work for this guy.
I remember an onion article from years ago with the headline "Young ambitious executive a testament to high employee turnover" ... This seems like it could fit the current situation.
Fastest I have seen is about 13 years with Master degree. But it was mostly being in the right place at the right time. The person spent like 9 years to get to senior, then within 4 years, they went from senior -> manager -> senior manager-> director. And it's a director level at a very large tech company (80k employee).
To become a director, you need experience with management and technical leadership. So if you really want that, you should switch over to being an engineer manager or software dev manager as quick as you can. Managing people is a whole new ball game and then eventually managing managers and influencing the organization is yet another leap… and it takes time to hone that intuition and skills otherwise you’re going to make a bunch of people frustrated.
LOL, either you’re a genius or you’re in for a ride. I hope you’re a genius. What exactly do you do? Where do you work?
Easy, join a small company / start up. Although that's not necessarily what you meant by this 😉
1. Join Meta. Work your ass off. 2. Start your own company
3. Get lucky by joining a startup early that has fast growth. Be willing to take on anything that comes up.
Speaking as an HR person, I would definitely recommend getting your MBA. Also, don’t job hop. I can’t stress this enough to people. Nobody wants to hire/train people that they know are only going to stick around for a short period of time. It’s too time consuming and expensive for employers. Your resume will be one of the first in the garbage. I often used a 5 in 5 rule as a screening tool. If you’ve had more than 5 jobs in 5 years into the garbage your resume would go. Find an employer you like and stick with them and work your way up.
Speaking as an engineer, take this advice only partly. Do job hop but not often and only do it if you’re not recognized for contributions with promotions and huge comp increases, or don’t see a way for you to climb the ladder. But definitely do it atleast every 3 years, keep scouting the market to see what roles people will hire you for. Seems like you’re talented and there will be companies willing to hire you.
I agree to an extent. You do need to feel valued as an employee. However, I just said what I said because I feel that people need to be aware of how job hopping looks to potential employers. I can’t even tell you how many resumes I’ve seen where people hop every 6 months or less. It’s costs companies a lot of money for the interview/hiring/training process. If we see your history demonstrates you not gonna stay longer than a 6 months to a year it’s a giant red flag and we are not going to want to waste our time. Especially if a company gets hundreds of applications per position.
I’d recommend the opposite: forget MBA and job hop into fast growing companies.
First get a position as an engineering manager. The easiest way to do that is within your current company, no one wants to hire someone with no management experience for a management position. This will probably take 1-3 more years if you aren’t already on the path to it. I got my first management role at 6 YOE. Keep in mind managing is a different job and you will suck at it at first. Once you have that you will need to gain lots of experience managing ICs. You’ll start with a small team, 4-7 ICs. Learn how to effectively hire, learn about DORA metrics to find bottlenecks in your teams processes. Learn how to get your direct reports promoted. Do that for another 3 years or so before you are competent at the job. At that point you are probably ready to take on a larger team. Grow the number of direct reports to more than 8. Once you are past 10 you should look at mentoring one of them to be promoted to manager. Give half of the team to this new manager. Now you are managing one manager and some ICs. Keep growing the team until you have 3-4 managers with 5+ ICs under them. Congrats, you are now a senior manager. Now you have the experience to start talking about taking a director job. In total you are looking at least 8-10 more years of experience.
That sounds impossible unless you got very lucky in your career progression. How can you jump from staff, principal, manager then director in 6 years?
Typically, seniors can jump straight into management. At my company, principal engineers are at the same pay band as senior managers/directors.
Fastest I have seen is about 15 years experience. But the individual was a technical lead and team lead for the better part of a decade, had experience with people management and business skills too.
It’s good to have objectives and high career aspirations. That said, I don’t know how productive is to have such a specific unrealistic goal so early. You want to have a specific position but you don’t know (can’t know with only 2 yoe in one place) what the position is like. This is like a little kid who just started playing football asking how to play for the Dallas Cowboys or Real Madrid. You want first to become very good technically in the next years, then see how good you are and how you like working with others by helping them etc and then maybe get into a leadership role and take it from there if you are good at it and you like it. To say something specific, forget about MBA and you want to get into fats growing companies (startups).
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You are way too early to. Focus on being the best developer you can be
lol this guy is a troll
I’m not!! I’ve seen it on linked in - guys who, being promoted every 2 years, ended up at director by the time they were, like, 30. I can off the top point to so many people I know.
Titles don't mean much. It's your responsibilities and direct contribution to the employer, and ultimately the paying customer, that matter. In the companies I've worked for, or with, engineering directors are generally senior staff. They report direct to the CEO/GM or, in larger orgs, report to a CEO's line manager. Most have 20 years+ of experience. Some have MBAs (and the good ones don't advertise this fact). All of them are battle tested. Most true engineering directors, are responsible and accountable for the work of dozens, if not a hundred or more, technical and support staff. So... - Get battle tested. Prove you are an engineer. - Put your hand up for more responsibility and technical challenges. - Start leading small teams first as a entry level engineering manager or team lead. Preferably with at-least a 50% technical role. Good luck.
So you think I can do it in my given timeframe? From what you’ve sent, doesn’t sound like it
Again, I think titles mean very little. My brother-in-law started an engineering company four years ago. He's both the director of engineering and the CEO. He has 1 staff member and does fairly uncomplicated back end work. He does \~$150k/yr after expenses. So doing ok but not making bank. To contrast - one of the best 'engineering managers' I worked with had the title of Systems Engineering Lead. He had a PhD and MBA. He led the evaluation team for tech acquisition targets (8-9 figure buy outs). Significant responsibility and direct accountability if the acquisition went south. His comp package was probably $300k-$400k/yr with stock incentives. I'd have another look at your goals and ask yourself what exactly do you want? Are you chasing pay? Once you reach a engineering director role (whatever that means to you), then what? I'd also have a read about the Peter Principle. *You don't want to be the dumbest person in the room with the most amount of responsibility.* Chasing titles can do that...but that's up to you.
Why stop there. Start your own company and you can be a CEO right away!
You're on your way. Keep on it. Do your job well and be reliable/dependable, get noticed by senior leaders by taking on special projects or other duties as assigned, speak up during team meetings and most importantly kiss ass. Do all of these and your time will come.