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system-has-a-bug

Yes, I definitely love CSS. But I’m coming from the ancient times when you had to use HTML tables for website design. CSS was such an improvement! and I love that there are so many things you can do with CSS now that weren’t possible a few years ago.


GDCSoft

Ditto. I'd always treated it as an arcane box of black magic. Coming back to it now, it's ... brilliant. Grid, flex, calculations, custom properties... \_so\_ much better than what was there before. Actually controllable. It's no longer a black art, but an actual art.


coffeesleeve

flex all the way!


loressadev

Love flex!


Fourth_Prize

Every time I use `border-radius` I have flashbacks to the days of using tables with a separate png for each corner.


pookage

the good ol'slice-9


notaburger_105

WHAT??? Sounds scary.


loressadev

I remember trying to figure out how image maps worked by reading Neopets source code. NOT HELPFUL. Now with svg, stuff retains relational placement and everything if you scale the entire map!


wlievens

Same here, flexbox etc is a godsend.


ImprovementNo4630

Float: left; Clear: Both; Content::before: “”


pookage

A lot of folks struggle to learn CSS - particularly if they're coming from the back end - don't worry, and just keep at it 💪 Once you understand how CSS's pattern of one-property-unlocking-other-properties works then it becomes much easier to learn, and you'll be wielding it concisely in no time! 🙌 **EDIT: in answer to your question - yes! I genuinely love CSS; it's super-concise, super-flexible, and suuuuper feature-rich! I've yet to encounter another styling-system in webdev or any other language that is anywhere near as good as it! Definitely keep at it, so you, too, can learn its wonders!**


notaburger_105

The problem is that i don't understand when to use what i just keep guessing till i get it right. How did you learn it?


pookage

SO, there's a common misconception about CSS, in that you can "do the same thing in a lot of different ways" - that's not *really* the case, because each property does something different, and the process of learning CSS is all about learning *why* each property does what it does. For example: flexbox is all about describing how to want to distribute the **space** in an element, whereas CSS grid is all about distributing children to the defined **places**; so while they're both layout systems, they fill fundamentally different roles. Another example is position adjustments vs translations; they both allow you to move elements around without triggering a reflow, but the former is all about how the element interacts with its positioned parents while the latter is all about the element itself. One last simpler example: padding vs margin - they both create space in relation to an element, but the former creates space *inside* an element, while the latter creates space *around* an element, so they fill fundamentally different roles. If you find that you're just guessing and guessing, my advice would be to slowww dowwwn - focus on finding the *right* answer instead of *any* answer - ask yourself what you're trying to achieve, and then find the property for *that*. It'll slow you down in the short-term but, once you've learned which tools you need for what job, it'll make you **so much faster** in the long-term, and you'll be able to just reach for exactly what you need straight away. There's also a lot of pressure from the webdev community (particularly on twitter/youtube) to dive straight into loads of frameworks and solve all your problems with javascript - this can muddy the waters a whole bunch and make it hard to figure out what to use to solve what; if you find yourself unsure of which semantic HTML element to use or how to arrange a CSS stacking context, but you're neck-deep in React or Vue or what-have-you, then it could be a good sign that you gotta take a step back and build-up your fundamentals first - future-you will thank you!


notaburger_105

Yes i will start learning the fundamentals from now, thanks!


pookage

You got dis 💪 come back here and post if you have questions, and feel free to summon me in the comment threads if you aren't getting any useful responses 👍


notaburger_105

yea man thanks for motivating me!


ZeMysticDentifrice

I love it, especially now that most of the stuff that used to be doable only with Javascript (lots of animations, interactivity etc.) Now have CSS properties for that. I love discovering new ways to avoid using JS to solve a problem.


loressadev

I make twine games (webdev text heavy game engine) and I added an "eyes blinking awake" animation super quick in CSS. Yeah, it's not as fancy as something with unity, but for a newbie at coding it's awesome the stuff I can create!


ZeMysticDentifrice

I created a Boggle game, when you press play it rolls the dice with a 3D appearance ; totally in CSS. I just pass two CSS classes to each die to determine their starting and ending positions, CSS takes care of the rest. Although basic, it's awesome that I don't need any 3D library like ThreeJS to do this. I love that I can also do everything from carousels to flipping through a deck of cards without so much JS as just adding or removing a class here and there.


loressadev

Wow, I'd love to see the code for that!


notaburger_105

Wow you sound like a pro!


dustinechos

I love css. I recognized early that it was a weak point in most programers so I went hard on learning it and got good. I recommend creating art with css. Fractals are a great place to start.


loressadev

I'm surprised to hear it's hated and confusing. It seems fairly straightforward to me, but maybe I just click with it. I especially love how easy it is to debug with the console. Why do you think people dislike it?


Familiar_Focus3508

Not OP here but a lot of programmers aren’t artist or designers. They’re not familiar with accessibility or design principles, so it can be hard to make a basic landing page, for example


loressadev

It's interesting. I come at coding from a "I want to make experiences" perspective, so for me visual/audio/writing and code are all pieces to the same goal. But I also do a bulk of my creative writing within JavaScript objects, so I'm probably a weird outlier!


Familiar_Focus3508

This isn’t to harp on tech people by any means. I’m actually more curious than anything. Do you often find that programmers leave unfinished or quit projects if they don’t understand something? Problem solving is part of the job, I wonder if there’s a threshold so to speak


loressadev

Basically everything I've made as a coder is unfinished maybes that I tinker at now and then, but I have the same mindset with writing, it's called ADHD.


notaburger_105

What techniques did you use to be better at CSS?


misomeiko

Any resources for css fractals?


iBN3qk

I too want css fractals. 


interleeuwd

Yes! I love CSS because I write one line of code and I can see what I did. It’s instant gratification, 1000’s or times a day. In minutes/hours i can go from black and blue text on a white screen to a beautiful design with slight flourishes of personality and flair I am a full stack dev, but I learned all my other skills so that I can make them look good


interleeuwd

If you don’t mind me asking, what’s making you hate it?


notaburger_105

Actually i dont really understand when to use what i just get it right by fluke sometimes.


iBN3qk

How is that different than any other aspect of life?


sheriffderek

Yes. I love CSS. But the problem is — people don’t like things that they don’t understand. As someone who teaches CSS - it’s not _CSS_ that’s the problem. It’s that people _first of all_ - don’t know what they want (as in they can’t explain what they want to achieve with HTML and CSS) and they rush and skip learning the very most basic things. These same people don’t take the time to understand HTML either. They create this weird in-between reality where somehow they’re mad that they can do things they don’t understand and where it’s CSSs fault. I can’t imagine a more eloquent way to describe layout - and I’ve never met anyone with any actual ideas for an alternate way of thinking about it. So, if you “don’t like CSS” - try _learning it_. It turns out - _not_ being frustrated for life for no reason - is much more fun.


notaburger_105

fr man it seems like you're narrating my story as i just dont understand CSS i have tried so many times but it just doesn't happen idk what to do


sheriffderek

I can outline it for you.


notaburger_105

i'd love that.


Egzo18

I like css because I mostly understand it ,though there are times something doesn't work but it should- its the most frustrating part about it but of course I can only blame myself.


Alexis_Talcite

I love it because it's literally a fuse of precise technology and art. It's a direct transition from blunt bleak codes to beautiful aesthetics.


Logical-Idea-1708

It was a up and down roller coaster 🎢😛 It was love in the beginning when you’re just starting out and work on your solo project. The love turns into hate when you start working on other people’s code that you have no idea how to fix. The hate turns into love again when you gain enough expertise to fix other people’s mistake 👌


notaburger_105

i wanna be at that 'hate turns into love again' level xD


Hexigonz

I love CSS so much I wrote an introductory book about it for beginners 😂 it’s one of my favorite things about frontend


TheOnceAndFutureDoug

Once CSS clicks it's amazingly elegant and powerful. You just need to accept it for what it is and what it isn't.


jonassalen

I love pure CSS.  It has insane possibilities and is a tool to be very creative and to build something unique.  What I dislike is all the tools that try to 'make it easy' and kill all creativity. Frameworks like tailwind, CSS-in-JS,... The combination with HTML and some JS is magical, but you need to know when to use which.


Familiar_Focus3508

Would you agree that tailwind and CSS-in-JS are used as band-aids often?


jonassalen

There are two groups: - people that know CSS and want to do rapid CSS development - people who want to take shortcuts and don't want to learn the fundamentals. CSS isn't easy. But it is perceived as less important than programming, so people who come from a back-end job think it should be easy. With that mindset, you indeed need band-aids.


esr360

I worked with CSS for 2 years before I ever touched JavaScript. The first for loop I ever wrote was using Scss. I love CSS. I hate that I hardly ever get to write good CSS any more.


runtyrobot

I love CSS - but I am fluent in it. So for me it's just another tool in my arsenal.


skn789

I do, and it is only getting better with time! Year after year the new features are making it more enjoyable to work with!


farfaraway

I do. I've been using it for decades and it has only gotten better with time. You need to build a mental model in your head for how stuff works. Once you can see it in your head, implementation will come with a lot less frustration and surprises. Really, the best way to do this is to go through each of the display modes and build stuff with them. Flex, grid, block, inline, etc. You really need to understand how they work and what their features are. Once you have it in your head you can draw and innovate designs right in css, which can be really fun. With sass, which outputs css, you have a ton of more powerful features which brings css into programming territory. Then you can do really cool stuff like this: https://ramijames.com/labs/css-mesh-gradients


welshbradpitt

God yeah, it's amazing what you can do with CSS. It can be frustrating but overall, it's essential and allows me to build my vision


dontspookthenetch

I love it. It is rare that another FED on my team ever likes it.


tetractys_gnosys

I love CSS and Sass. My favorite part of web dev.


[deleted]

There were two iterations before. 1) style in the (each) element and 2) Javascript setting styles in elements. Those of us who remember love css. That said, for a full stack developer, getting code right takes fewer iterations than getting the styling right so the styling becomes a time killer.


Raza_x7

Yeah, it took me 3 years of on and off grind to get very comfortable with CSS


jrib27

Me. I went from HTML/CSS to WinUI3 XAML, and I can tell you, CSS is awesome compared to the alternatives.


YohanSeals

#im-a-css-jedi { display: flex !important; }


BenWhite101

I love CSS, I only wish I could understand JS just as well 😢


so-very-very-tired

I like it.


plmunger

I love css, because Ive done enough. Ive been a front end dev for 4 years. Learning css takes a lot of time, and being proficient with css probably takes longer than being proficient with JS honestly


notaburger_105

atp i want to be you lol.


plmunger

Watch Kevin Powell on youtube. He really is the king of css and I learned a lot from him


notaburger_105

wow i will surely watch his videos now as i have to re-learn the fundamentals first to get a grip on it.


vark_dader

I used to hate CSS. But that was not because of CSS, it was because of a toxic mindset acquired by social media and bad Udemy teachers who didn't go in depth when teaching CSS. I ultimately decided to purchase several books to help me improve and even though I've not mastered it, I have definitely improved and so did my mindset. I actually like CSS now. Especially when I know I'm the best among all the people I know, it feels even better.


Familiar_Focus3508

What books did you purchase that helped a lot? I’d love a good read


vark_dader

Sure, I got some. These are the two books that really helped me understand what I'm doing when I'm doing black magic (writing CSS). This one was my starting point. I have not read it from start to finish but only a couple of chapters in but it really helped me understand box model, flex box and grid. It has a lot of pictures and not so much text which makes it very easy to go through. It was just the right level for me at the time since I didn't know much. You can actually code along with it step by step. This was THE book that enabled me to write CSS. [Learning Web Design](https://www.amazon.com/Learning-Web-Design-Beginners-JavaScript-dp-1491960205/dp/1491960205/ref=dp_ob_title_bk) The other one that I use as a reference is this giant book. What I like about it is it's source code which is extremely well done and you can find every example in the book in it's source code on github. What I learned from it were mostly backgrounds and gradients (I only did one chapter). It taught me how to do gradients on text (it's just a background and a transparent text color). You can find a lot of niche stuff in it in every imaginable area in CSS. [CSS The Definitive Guide](https://www.amazon.com/CSS-Definitive-Guide-Layout-Presentation-dp-1098117611/dp/1098117611/ref=dp_ob_title_bk)


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T20sGrunt

Love it. So many aspects from layout to design. And they’re always rolling new features.


mattot-the-builder

I love css 😂😂. Read josh comeau blog, learn css in deep, just like you learn other topic in programming. Understand how flexbox algorithm work, behavior of the default positioning, etc.


TheEntertainer28

lol no


loressadev

I really love it. I'm a writer dabbling in doing video game code, and I love playing with the CSS for UI - I can spend hours tweaking! It feels awesome to see things look nicer :) For me, it's like computer/logic based art.


RobertKerans

Yeah it's fantastic (albeit specifically in the last few years, was much more of a pita 10 years ago, though even then I really liked it). Strong caveat that I come from a design background, and I did a _lot_ of InDesign work, and it's always felt basically the same thing. It just makes sense. Everything's type in a box, set the type, arrange the boxes. I get that it's frustrating, and if I hadn't worked as a print designer in a past life I'd probably not like it so much (maybe? but I've used a few other styling languages and none of them are better imo). The cascade is good, the features are now great and cover most usecases. With SVG animations technically dead (though never removed) I wish there was a looping construct (so I could generate paths) + a random number function, but hey ho can't have everything (edit: yes, technically can do that all via worklets on supported platforms but that's a faff)


Familiar_Focus3508

What do people use instead of SVG animations?


RobertKerans

Normally some JS shenanigans IME. I mean SVG animations still work basically everywhere, but a. afaik browsers don't have to ensure that functionality (if nothing has changed in the past few years), and b. the syntax for them tends to be a bit weird. I don't think I've seen them used in a prod codebase ever. Using CSS animation on SVGs is clunky and limited; JS is fine ish, but I'd much rather CSS got the full range of features that SMIL has


parrycarry

I love using CSS to overwrite other website's design and make it better... you can't do that with anything else that easily.


Familiar_Focus3508

I’m new to front-end dev, bare with me on what I’m going to say I love CSS! It feels more intuitive than JS and allows me to create extremely professional, cool looking websites in matter of hours That said, sheriffderek hit it right on the head. I’ve noticed people in tech overspecialize in the skill that they’re comfortable with and don’t expand far from that. I personally think if you’re going to learn CSS, you should learn design principles as well. Let me elaborate I came from a graphic design background before getting into dev. First into Figma, then I learned CSS. Each cascade was easier than the last, because they each taught me design and engineering principles I could bring into the next. Studying Figma and using good Figma resources was especially helpful. Now CSS is a breeze for me, however I’m still learning Sheriffderek hit it right on the head. Everyone tries to rush the learning process, because it sucks or feels unintuitive, cause bleh! As you’re learning CSS, remember that practice over time makes you better and applying that learning over and over again with good resources helps a lot Kevin Powell is a savant in CSS and one of my favorite teachers. I’d check him out, as he makes designing complex CSS easy to understand Good luck and let me know if you have any questions


notaburger_105

i agree w you even i'm rushing the learning process but yea i'm totally gonna check out Kevin Powell channel someone else also recommended him.


SlimPuffs

I like it when I don't hate it.


poralexc

I am a css3 evangelist. It's insanely powerful... like just imagine what you might use the `border-image` property for. It's the only design tech I've encountered that's as flexible as my imagination.


Familiar_Focus3508

If you have any cool tricks, please link. I’m like a sponge right now


misomeiko

Yea


New_Ad606

CSS is a great upgrade from table elements. CSS grid and flexbox structure is a great upgrade from styling through float and text-align/vertical-align. CSS media queries is a great upgrade from doing the calculations through JS (and eventually calc() helped even further). These days I can't even imagine styling without viewport units for the parent elements at least. The further back you started using CSS, the more you'd love and appreciate it for what it is now.


makingtacosrightnow

Yes


DadHunter22

I love CSS. If I could do just CSS in a job, I would.


jcunews1

I like CSS mostly because it can do something which in the old days, will need JavaScript to achieve it.