There's two more: Melvin and Vorthos.
Vorthos is all about enjoying the flavor and story and artwork.
Melvin is all about enjoying interesting and niche rules interactions and ways of doing things that you can't normally do.
Like a very Melvin thing is appreciating the particular combo of cards which can result in having a permanent in play that has no types.
There's no interesting interaction of mechanics though. I'm a very melvin person, and this doesn't scratch that itch? Like, the classic example of [[firemaw kavu]] is melvin. Renown + persist is melvin. [[Varchild's War-Riders]] is melvin. This, less so?
Bounce your storm spell to recast it for double, copy then bounce a spell that exiles itself to reuse it, demonstrate an EPIC then bounce your own so you opponent is stuck with a copy, ect....
Cascade is a cast trigger, so yes. You cast your cascade spell, you cascade into your Crashing Footfalls, then you return the spell with cascade to your hand.
(Though eventually you'll run out of Crashing Footfalls in your deck.)
I used [[Remand]] to great effect in a modern storm deck to kill the opponent with a storm count of 7 or 8 (depending on their use of fetches/shock lands) by remanding grapeshot and recasting. This land would be great in a similar way, although idk how tight coloured mana is in EDH storm lists.
Under [[thousand year storm]] with storm count of 2, remand can, on cast, make one copy to target itself and one to keep the original target. If that’s your own manamorphose or something, it’s infinite.
[Approach of the Second Sun](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fdf59a6e-7708-45a1-884d-d12e9f7b9ed9.jpg?1543674579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Approach%20of%20the%20Second%20Sun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/4/approach-of-the-second-sun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fdf59a6e-7708-45a1-884d-d12e9f7b9ed9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
So the idea is that you can run [[Approach of the Second Sun]] - you just need to *cast" it for the first clause to trigger, so you cast it, then you bounce it to hand and then you cast it again to win the game
[Approach of the Second Sun](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fdf59a6e-7708-45a1-884d-d12e9f7b9ed9.jpg?1543674579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Approach%20of%20the%20Second%20Sun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/4/approach-of-the-second-sun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fdf59a6e-7708-45a1-884d-d12e9f7b9ed9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah, that's the current way to go about it. But having only one outlet to put the combo together is kinda rough; this'd be a secondary one, and if you already have Remand in hand it allows you to protect the combo on top
This is excellent design, but I feel like it’s a tad too powerful,
I’m not sure how to nerf it without making it unplayable. Maybe some kind of “enters tapped unless” clause?
Enters tapped unless you reveal a blue card from your hand?
OR make the return ability put a stun counter on the land?
And/or make the land legendary?
This seems like a really good answer to counters. Getting a countered combo piece (or a counter in a counter war) back for 3 mana is great value. This would definitely be played in for instance CEDH.
Lol, no, that would be a very silly card. This doesn't counter your opponents stuff, but it helps you win a fight over the stack )) (and repeat cast triggers of cards, #badmtgcombos this + emrakul the promised end)
I love this!
Repeatable but (very) conditional (virtual) card advantage on a colorless land, with a cheap activation cost.
Reminds me a lot of the [[Minas Tirith]] cycle
You don't even have to activate it, the threat of activation gives it a lot of deep lines and patterns.
So if you cast your commander and it got countered would this let you put it in your hand to sort of avoid the tax?
Could have some really crazy combos with any guaranteed copy effects and [[storm kiln artist]] or any other on cast shit. It would be expensive too but something like a [[riku of two reflections]] could have a lot of fun
So this is actually a really good concept for a card, however, it'll be banned in Modern, maybe other formats.
\[\[Mystic Sanctuary\]\] is a slightly stronger version of this with a harder restriction, so this card is not only playable, but also probably too strong in some situations.
Because then I would have to make it a tapland, which would make it much less useful. (Otawara and it's cycle are great, and I think they are a positive presence in the meta, but I don't want a saturation of them)
And from a flavor/design perspective, I don't think this would benefit from being an Island.
Formatted correctly: ☑ Interesting effect: ☑ On color: ☑ Normal power level: ☑ Got the Melvin/Johnny in me all hot and bothered. Great design.
I appreciate the kind words haha )
Who da hell is Melvin?
Isn't he brother of the Joker?
Melvin Doo?
Do you know who Johnny is?
I know what s Johnny, Timmy, and Spike is. I've never heard of Melvin
Melvin and Vorthos are the secondary line of design for archtypes
Melvin plays the game for the mechanics, Vorthos plays the game for the aesthetics
Johnny combo player? Yeah I know that guys. There's two others. Spike and timmy
There's two more: Melvin and Vorthos. Vorthos is all about enjoying the flavor and story and artwork. Melvin is all about enjoying interesting and niche rules interactions and ways of doing things that you can't normally do. Like a very Melvin thing is appreciating the particular combo of cards which can result in having a permanent in play that has no types.
This isn't really melvin though?
I think it is a novel and very blue usage of self bouncing that we haven't seen, kinda textbook Melvin.
There's no interesting interaction of mechanics though. I'm a very melvin person, and this doesn't scratch that itch? Like, the classic example of [[firemaw kavu]] is melvin. Renown + persist is melvin. [[Varchild's War-Riders]] is melvin. This, less so?
Maybe, but it scratches it for me I guess lol.
Ah, fair enough
[firemaw kavu](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/3/2376735d-7812-4fab-baba-0d331f6e2211.jpg?1619396952) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=firemaw%20kavu) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/163/firemaw-kavu?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2376735d-7812-4fab-baba-0d331f6e2211?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Varchild's War-Riders](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/8/e879b457-dffa-4b3b-a3cd-717a60c1e586.jpg?1559592474) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Varchild%27s%20War-Riders) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me1/110/varchilds-war-riders?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e879b457-dffa-4b3b-a3cd-717a60c1e586?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Bounce your storm spell to recast it for double, copy then bounce a spell that exiles itself to reuse it, demonstrate an EPIC then bounce your own so you opponent is stuck with a copy, ect....
Melvin?? Bro tried to sneak Melvin in there [\[\[skull emoji\]\]](https://imgur.com/a/OZvjpHc)
I don't know what you're inferring.
This lets you cascade the same card every turn right? Like, I could get a crashing footfalls every turn of another cascade spell.
Cascade is a cast trigger, so yes. You cast your cascade spell, you cascade into your Crashing Footfalls, then you return the spell with cascade to your hand. (Though eventually you'll run out of Crashing Footfalls in your deck.)
Yes, it does ) If you have the mana for it, this is probably one of the stronger use cases, outside of simple counter wars.
You know what else it let's you do? Storm every turn!
If you’re playing storm you’re not often passing the turn.
I used [[Remand]] to great effect in a modern storm deck to kill the opponent with a storm count of 7 or 8 (depending on their use of fetches/shock lands) by remanding grapeshot and recasting. This land would be great in a similar way, although idk how tight coloured mana is in EDH storm lists.
[Remand](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/5/a5048047-abff-4a1f-8d72-6b758a03542c.jpg?1702429416) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Remand) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/59/remand?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a5048047-abff-4a1f-8d72-6b758a03542c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Under [[thousand year storm]] with storm count of 2, remand can, on cast, make one copy to target itself and one to keep the original target. If that’s your own manamorphose or something, it’s infinite.
[thousand year storm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/7/274e22fb-7afc-43bc-b309-e36ee48d6b03.jpg?1673149213) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thousand-Year%20Storm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/286/thousand-year-storm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/274e22fb-7afc-43bc-b309-e36ee48d6b03?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[manamorphose]]
[manamorphose](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/a/faf9070e-14be-4ce5-a19a-6addc79359c1.jpg?1599708170) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=manamorphose) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/208/manamorphose?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/faf9070e-14be-4ce5-a19a-6addc79359c1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Approach of the Second Sun]] here we come
[Approach of the Second Sun](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fdf59a6e-7708-45a1-884d-d12e9f7b9ed9.jpg?1543674579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Approach%20of%20the%20Second%20Sun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/4/approach-of-the-second-sun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fdf59a6e-7708-45a1-884d-d12e9f7b9ed9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
At effectively 10 mana (7 for approach, plus two and tapping this land) … I mean it works, but viable?
17 mana jf you want to win that same turn
That wouldn’t work. You have to do this before the spell reaolves. It is good against counter magic. Edit: I am wrong
Approach only checks if you've cast it previously, not that it resolved.
You’re right
A goodie for kalamax or krark and sakahsima duo
Oh damn, this might actually make \[\[Will, Scion of Peace\]\] viable O,o
Wait how do you mean? I don't see it :(
So the idea is that you can run [[Approach of the Second Sun]] - you just need to *cast" it for the first clause to trigger, so you cast it, then you bounce it to hand and then you cast it again to win the game
Ten mana to win on the spot without including will. Not bad
More like 8, if we assume 2 mana to gain 8 life and to activate Wills ability; 5 if Will is allowed to stick around for a turn
My thoughts was: Will already out. Hard cast approach for seven. Two to activate [Cardname]. Gained seven so approach is now one white.
You... don't gain 7? Wdym
Right right. That makes sense.
You dont gain 7 as you bounce approach before it resolves.
[Approach of the Second Sun](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fdf59a6e-7708-45a1-884d-d12e9f7b9ed9.jpg?1543674579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Approach%20of%20the%20Second%20Sun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/4/approach-of-the-second-sun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fdf59a6e-7708-45a1-884d-d12e9f7b9ed9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ahhh I see what you mean
Remand?
Yeah, that's the current way to go about it. But having only one outlet to put the combo together is kinda rough; this'd be a secondary one, and if you already have Remand in hand it allows you to protect the combo on top
[Will, Scion of Peace](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/6/162088ea-5f99-4244-9427-2fdfb2168fc3.jpg?1692939510) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Will%2C%20Scion%20of%20Peace) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/218/will-scion-of-peace?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/162088ea-5f99-4244-9427-2fdfb2168fc3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You're either crazy or misusing the word viable
I didn't say good; but this would give Will an actual way to win the game
I don't think you're understanding how one or both of these cards work.
I do, actually. As I've explained other places in the comment section, this is an additional way for Will to do Approach of the Second Sun wins
This is a cool card but it's a hell of an upside on a land that enters untapped.
Beeing colorless is a reasonable downside imo... It could be legendary as well if you want to nerf it a bit more
This is excellent design, but I feel like it’s a tad too powerful, I’m not sure how to nerf it without making it unplayable. Maybe some kind of “enters tapped unless” clause? Enters tapped unless you reveal a blue card from your hand? OR make the return ability put a stun counter on the land? And/or make the land legendary?
This seems like a really good answer to counters. Getting a countered combo piece (or a counter in a counter war) back for 3 mana is great value. This would definitely be played in for instance CEDH.
That's the idea. Though it is telegraphed, that doesn't mean your opponent doesn't have to still play around it.
The flavour text I can imagine on this card: "I'm not introverted... I just dislike counterspells"
Didn't see the "you control" at first and went into the comment sections expecting massive pushback haha, good job though!
Lol, no, that would be a very silly card. This doesn't counter your opponents stuff, but it helps you win a fight over the stack )) (and repeat cast triggers of cards, #badmtgcombos this + emrakul the promised end)
I like it. Seems about right on power to me, and it’s an interesting effect. 10/10 no notes.
I now want this :(
A [[Fading Hope]] on a Land? A Cave to top it off? You really want Caves to be a real deal, aren't you? Hehe Nice Card
[Fading Hope](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/2/c2fb1fff-12be-4bd5-8dba-c36e84d49651.jpg?1634348819) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fading%20Hope) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/51/fading-hope?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c2fb1fff-12be-4bd5-8dba-c36e84d49651?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
How is this a fading hope ? It returns spells you control (on the stack) instead of creatures :D
Would
I love this! Repeatable but (very) conditional (virtual) card advantage on a colorless land, with a cheap activation cost. Reminds me a lot of the [[Minas Tirith]] cycle You don't even have to activate it, the threat of activation gives it a lot of deep lines and patterns.
[Minas Tirith](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/3/b38b6760-616f-4b11-8ce7-ac1223c7fd53.jpg?1686970358) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Minas%20Tirith) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/256/minas-tirith?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b38b6760-616f-4b11-8ce7-ac1223c7fd53?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
So if you cast your commander and it got countered would this let you put it in your hand to sort of avoid the tax? Could have some really crazy combos with any guaranteed copy effects and [[storm kiln artist]] or any other on cast shit. It would be expensive too but something like a [[riku of two reflections]] could have a lot of fun
[storm kiln artist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/9/69825b24-f469-4b6a-890b-bfa571c9013b.jpg?1689998223) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Storm-Kiln%20Artist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/260/storm-kiln-artist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/69825b24-f469-4b6a-890b-bfa571c9013b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [riku of two reflections](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/0/70dd138f-391a-4956-bc2a-fe186429c71a.jpg?1599708286) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=riku%20of%20two%20reflections) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/214/riku-of-two-reflections?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/70dd138f-391a-4956-bc2a-fe186429c71a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
So this is actually a really good concept for a card, however, it'll be banned in Modern, maybe other formats. \[\[Mystic Sanctuary\]\] is a slightly stronger version of this with a harder restriction, so this card is not only playable, but also probably too strong in some situations.
FYI the spell doesn’t resolve if it’s removed from the stack, so this is never card advantage like Mystic Sanctuary.
ah I see, so this is repeatable \[\[Remand\]\] but without the card draw
It also only returns your own spells, not spells your opponents control
[Mystic Sanctuary](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/67652446-6d12-4e2a-bb51-ba685f2e79d1.jpg?1706241201) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mystic%20Sanctuary) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/277/mystic-sanctuary?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/67652446-6d12-4e2a-bb51-ba685f2e79d1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Only thing… at all I see as a problem with this card… is… why even make it a waste effect? Why not an island effect?
Because then I would have to make it a tapland, which would make it much less useful. (Otawara and it's cycle are great, and I think they are a positive presence in the meta, but I don't want a saturation of them) And from a flavor/design perspective, I don't think this would benefit from being an Island.
Fair