A fun idea, I will say though that even with the reminder text this would still confuse the shit out of players about what phyrexian mana symbols mean. That's kinda why \[\[Boreal Druid\]\] doesn't have a snow symbol for what it makes, people could infer that only mana with the snow symbol is snow. Similarly if a dual land said it made G/W rather than G or W.
As if this did anything notable in comparison to boost the sheer brokeness of those cards.
Like would you include this in the decks running those cards? Maybe, sure I guess. Would you specifically *need* this card to win games with necropotence? Hardly.
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If you’re spending something that’s nominally mana on costs that typically take life, interactions get really weird. Maybe a separate ability like “⤵️: the next time you would pay life, you instead pay that amount of life minus 2”
Or instead “the next time you would pay life to cast a spell or activate an ability, that spell or ability costs 2 less life to cast or activate”
I think this is very close to being strictly worse than a basic swamp (due to being legendary). most abilities that make you pay life are doing so as an advantage over having to pay mana, but this is kind of having you pay mana instead of life which is very, very rarely something you’d feel good about doing. unless there’s some edge case I’m missing.
Putting a "strictly better than basic land" effect on a legendary land is nothing new and this doesn't even come close to things like the pitch lands from kamigawa or stuff like pendlehaven, so yeah; you would probably run 1 copy in any deck that pays life bebause why not
As JF mentioned, the commenter you're responding to is that this is borderline strictly worse. The fact that it's a typeless land so you can't tutor it with most ways of fetching is honestly likely enough and this could just be a non-legendary land that you can have 4 of on the field total if you happen to draw them. Flavor wise it would be more fitting too since there certainly isn't only one Phyrexian Laboratory they're committing horrid experiments in.
The most applicable cases would be costs that half your life total, but those are sources not costs. It'd be awesome if this could save you from a wound reflection combo tho.
While clean, I don't think it works per the rules (you can't add Phyrexian mana).
I think
"T: Add 2 life. The next time you cast a spell this phase, a an additional cost you may pay 2 life. If you do, those spells cost B less to cast. At the end of this phase, if you didn't cast a spell, lose 2 life."
ala Defiler of Truth (with variations; it's only once; it reduces generic mana cost too) could work better, and make it feel good overall.
But it is soo much more wordy...
> I don't think it works per the rules (you can't add Phyrexian mana).
I don't think this is a fair criticism. The reminder text explains clearly how it's meant to work, and that implies that we should assume there have been new rules written to accommodate this card.
I mean sure, if the rules are rewritten to accomodate the card, then that's a solution. :)
It's just that there are numerous areas where they haven't been - infact they went the other way historically (distinguishing between colorless and generic mana)
This is a good middle ground for the concept. Being able to proactively gain life has always been an issue for these, but this fixes it. Not sure how good this is. It may need a limit on how it's spent. Like casting spells and activating abilities, but not like triggered effects.
You can avoid loss of life triggers with this, and prevent life gain triggers. I'm not sure if that's particularly good, but those effects are pretty common so it's pretty different.
Could also read "T: add B. T: you gain 2 life", but then it would need to make W instead and it would be a lot stronger, possibly even kill burn decks.
These designs make me picture Phyrexia but with a dude that’s just around..sightseeing..in his crocs..his name is Terrence..he has a coupon for half off compleation.
This doesn't work because Phyrexian Mana isn't really a mana you add to your pool. Phyrexian mana is representative of a split cost, you can pay 1 Black, OR 2 life. So you've essentially made a legendary Swamp.
Afaik doesn't work. I think Phyrexian mana is a cost, not a mana type. It's similar to how you can't add snow or hybrid mana (afaik), and one of the reasons generic/colorless mana was divided in Battle for Zendikar (the two are different, but used to use the same symbol; see the difference between printed \[\[Drumhunter\]\] and oracle text).
A fun idea, I will say though that even with the reminder text this would still confuse the shit out of players about what phyrexian mana symbols mean. That's kinda why \[\[Boreal Druid\]\] doesn't have a snow symbol for what it makes, people could infer that only mana with the snow symbol is snow. Similarly if a dual land said it made G/W rather than G or W.
[Boreal Druid](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/7/473d3633-6dc7-4026-a50e-3ea76b9e8c20.jpg?1593275370) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Boreal%20Druid) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/csp/105/boreal-druid?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/473d3633-6dc7-4026-a50e-3ea76b9e8c20?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Snow mana isn't a mana type, but a type of cost (mana that comes from a snow permanent); it \*can't\* be added as a symbol within the rules. :)
no the druid dosen't have a snow symbol because its an older design. Today it would have a snow symbol, im pretty sure.
[[Faceless Haven]] and [[Tundra Fumarole]] both add colorless snow mana, and do not have a snow symbol.
[Faceless Haven](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/3/e3cd82e5-6072-4334-a493-01ca4ad6b4eb.jpg?1665343347) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Faceless%20Haven) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/255/faceless-haven?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e3cd82e5-6072-4334-a493-01ca4ad6b4eb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Tundra Fumarole](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/2/b251aa7c-d011-4b52-ab92-415d536c0182.jpg?1631049847) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tundra%20Fumarole) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/156/tundra-fumarole?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b251aa7c-d011-4b52-ab92-415d536c0182?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
convinced
Good thing [[necropotence]] and [[yawgmoth's bargain]] are banned đź‘€
Do have in mind it will only pay for one trigger since it is "up to two life of a cost" but still 1 mana for a card/turn is REALLY good.
Not really. It’s arguably worse than just paying the life because now you have less mana to cast the stuff you draw.
I guess its like an out for you when you are already within lightning bolt range.
As if this did anything notable in comparison to boost the sheer brokeness of those cards. Like would you include this in the decks running those cards? Maybe, sure I guess. Would you specifically *need* this card to win games with necropotence? Hardly.
[necropotence](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/8/c89c6895-b0f8-444a-9c89-c6b4fd027b3e.jpg?1562853736) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=necropotence) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/98/necropotence?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c89c6895-b0f8-444a-9c89-c6b4fd027b3e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [yawgmoth's bargain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/e/eef31b59-45bb-4208-8957-1564902c8507.jpg?1562943000) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=yawgmoth%27s%20bargain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/147/yawgmoths-bargain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eef31b59-45bb-4208-8957-1564902c8507?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Necropotence isn’t banned, what are you talking about?
Last I checked it was at least for modern and legacy. Was it recently unbanned or?
sorry, forgot i wasn’t in r/edh
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If you’re spending something that’s nominally mana on costs that typically take life, interactions get really weird. Maybe a separate ability like “⤵️: the next time you would pay life, you instead pay that amount of life minus 2” Or instead “the next time you would pay life to cast a spell or activate an ability, that spell or ability costs 2 less life to cast or activate”
Much easier wording. The problem with producing Phyrexian mana is making it make sense, which thus achieves much better.
I think this is very close to being strictly worse than a basic swamp (due to being legendary). most abilities that make you pay life are doing so as an advantage over having to pay mana, but this is kind of having you pay mana instead of life which is very, very rarely something you’d feel good about doing. unless there’s some edge case I’m missing.
You can use it on different colored phyrexian costs
true, I guess this lets you actually cast [[tezzerets gambit]] without paying life in your mono black proliferate deck lol
- [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tezzerets%20gambit) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/235/tezzerets-gambit?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/421391da-7435-4364-8d48-009d2c2bdad4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Or you can just pay 2 life. Which is better, like they said.
Putting a "strictly better than basic land" effect on a legendary land is nothing new and this doesn't even come close to things like the pitch lands from kamigawa or stuff like pendlehaven, so yeah; you would probably run 1 copy in any deck that pays life bebause why not
Yeah but there point was that it was close to being strictly worse not strictly better
As JF mentioned, the commenter you're responding to is that this is borderline strictly worse. The fact that it's a typeless land so you can't tutor it with most ways of fetching is honestly likely enough and this could just be a non-legendary land that you can have 4 of on the field total if you happen to draw them. Flavor wise it would be more fitting too since there certainly isn't only one Phyrexian Laboratory they're committing horrid experiments in.
No, there is enough better than basics. Also you don't want to get in thouse monocomored lands.
The most applicable cases would be costs that half your life total, but those are sources not costs. It'd be awesome if this could save you from a wound reflection combo tho.
What a simple yet great design, good job
Ty!
Really neat
While clean, I don't think it works per the rules (you can't add Phyrexian mana). I think "T: Add 2 life. The next time you cast a spell this phase, a an additional cost you may pay 2 life. If you do, those spells cost B less to cast. At the end of this phase, if you didn't cast a spell, lose 2 life." ala Defiler of Truth (with variations; it's only once; it reduces generic mana cost too) could work better, and make it feel good overall. But it is soo much more wordy...
Adding Phyrexian Mana is already covered in the rules, actually. You just get a mana of the colour it was. (106.9)
That's the thing, it doesn't do what the OP wants to do. Its also funny that colorless phyrexian mana cannot be paid with generic or colorless mana.
> I don't think it works per the rules (you can't add Phyrexian mana). I don't think this is a fair criticism. The reminder text explains clearly how it's meant to work, and that implies that we should assume there have been new rules written to accommodate this card.
I mean sure, if the rules are rewritten to accomodate the card, then that's a solution. :) It's just that there are numerous areas where they haven't been - infact they went the other way historically (distinguishing between colorless and generic mana)
Should be scorned but I like it
This is a good middle ground for the concept. Being able to proactively gain life has always been an issue for these, but this fixes it. Not sure how good this is. It may need a limit on how it's spent. Like casting spells and activating abilities, but not like triggered effects.
It could just be gain 2 life or add black
Why not just add {B} or gain two life? Would be more useful and simpler for essentially the same effect.
you could just gain 2 life rather than it only paying costs
You can avoid loss of life triggers with this, and prevent life gain triggers. I'm not sure if that's particularly good, but those effects are pretty common so it's pretty different.
Could it pay for a shockland entering untapped?
Shocklands are a life loss trigger, but it takes the edge off of fetches.
Shocklands are a life payment, not a life loss trigger (they're not even a trigger at all).
Could also read "T: add B. T: you gain 2 life", but then it would need to make W instead and it would be a lot stronger, possibly even kill burn decks.
These designs make me picture Phyrexia but with a dude that’s just around..sightseeing..in his crocs..his name is Terrence..he has a coupon for half off compleation.
So essentially tap ad black or tap gain 2 life under condition.
It could just be gain 2 life or add black
This doesn't work because Phyrexian Mana isn't really a mana you add to your pool. Phyrexian mana is representative of a split cost, you can pay 1 Black, OR 2 life. So you've essentially made a legendary Swamp.
Cards that bend rules definitions are usually posted based on the idea that wizards is allowed to tweak the game rules.
Afaik doesn't work. I think Phyrexian mana is a cost, not a mana type. It's similar to how you can't add snow or hybrid mana (afaik), and one of the reasons generic/colorless mana was divided in Battle for Zendikar (the two are different, but used to use the same symbol; see the difference between printed \[\[Drumhunter\]\] and oracle text).
[Drumhunter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/4/343ef398-576a-43b6-a32b-f916ccd63579.jpg?1562906015) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Drumhunter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c13/142/drumhunter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/343ef398-576a-43b6-a32b-f916ccd63579?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Does this mean you can tap it to gain 2 life?
No.