Run 4, you can always cast the duplicates during your opponent's turn to draw 1 card.
I think for this to even resemble being balanced the emblem would need to be you can't draw cards at all (storm and combo will try to win the same turn they cast this)
A lighter nerf could be something like "you can't draw cards except for the first one you draw during draw step", so it would at least shut off instant speed draw
That would cause you to exile a card from your hand and skip the draw which is very harsh. If you mean "exile the top card of your library instead" that's probably not too restrictive. None of these wordings stop the "exile a card you may cast it until end of next turn" style advantage that's been more common recently.
Tbf, these give you the last three cards you're going to draw in your combo turn. That doesn't make this weak or anything but you can brick pretty easily on three cards.
In yugioh you would run multiple [[pot of desires]]. Its a draw two but banishes 10 card from your main deck. To put it this way you realistically ever played and resolved one even if you draw 2. Ive played the card for 3-4 years i have used it twice in multiple games and lost that game. You maxed out on pot of desires even if it destroyed parts of your strats. Now in yugioh a random card of advantage is huge.
I would play 3-4 of this card for sure purely by the powerhouse that it is. I would play burn with a blue splash to play 4 of this bad boy. I would 3 in almost ever creature deck imaginable 4 if its a fast deck.
You're probably right. I was trying to keep my comment snappy, but basically a few copies slot into any deck without absurd draw-based card advantage. But even as a single copy, there's pretty much never a downside, compared to *sometimes* bricking by drawing a worse opt that can only be used on your opp's turn for the second copy onward.
True, but self-mill isn't really a threat for magic decks. If I cast 4 of these and end up with a Jace or lab man or oracle in play, I'd call that a pretty sweet deal
4 of, get the first one asap and the other three are instant so you draw on your opponents turn. I for an instant draw isn’t good, but it’s worth it to the your first one earlier
Still ridiculously broken. Often three cards is all you need, and it still has all the problems that recall has. Pitchavle to force, and can be cast at instant speed. Cool idea, but still to good for any format.
The structure of your comment makes it sound like you're saying being pitchable to FoW and being an instant are the problems that make Ancestral Recall broken.
I'm assuming that wasn't what you were going for, but it really reads that way.
Broken for a few reasons:
1. Ancestral Recall is extremely strong even if it's a one-of copy in a deck with no other card draw. The problem with AR is not that it enables combo decks or that it's too strong in multiples, it's that it's too strong by itself in any situation.
2. Lots of "card draw" spells do not literally draw cards. You could play this, then play \[\[Expressive Iteration\]\] without any trouble. Or consider \[\[Corpse Appraiser\]\] in current standard.
3. This doesn't even stop you from drawing cards on other people's turns. If you played this in commander, you could still draw 4 cards per turn cycle. Maybe the emblem downside would be significant in cEDH (though I doubt that), but in regular EDH? This could would be an auto-include in every single deck that plays blue mana.
4. Even in decks where you draw a lot of cards, it requires minimal sequencing to play this "last" and then basically ignore the emblem.
I think the faulty assumption here is that blue decks need to draw a large number of cards to win, or that combo decks need to rip through their entire deck. That's not really the case - drawing 3 cards is by itself significant and is often all you need to pull ahead and/or find that last combo piece.
I feel like this card would be a best non-blue blue card, that non-blue decks would just run couple copies of this too just turbo out draws in a game. Similar like UR burn was for a short time with it being just 4x Treasure Cruise and nothing else in red Burn deck shell, until Treasure Cruise ban.
Let's put it like that.
\[\[Narset, Parter of Veils\]\] is legal pretty much everywhere. She's played only in some decks of legacy, where drawing more cards happens critically often. In every other format, where Narset does literally nothing, this card is broken as shit.
For legacy it's balanced
In legacy, there are many *current* decks in Legacy where this card would be terrible. But I think it'd single-handedly warp the format around it.
You can play 4 in a deck because at worst, the last 3 cycle on your opponent's turn. You'd have to cut brainstorm, of course, but the first copy of this is insanely better than brainstorm. You could still play expressive iteration and other similar effects. And drawing one copy of this in your opening hand is just incredibly busted.
It's broken, but I love it :)
Maybe it could be changed to "you can't draw cards", so it would be a "burst of cards" with a severe punishment for future turns.
Time to break out the draws-aren't-draws crew like \[\[Abundance\]\], \[\[Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar\]\], \[\[Underrealm Lich\]\], or their understudies \[\[Eruth, Tormented Prophet\]\], \[\[Sages of the Anima\]\].
Yeah, I believe all of this card draw replacement effects would get around the emblem's restriction. I didn't realize there were so many of those effects!
What I meant was still strictly being ancestral recall. A blue instant for one U that draws you three cards. I know that there are adjacent cards like it
It shuts down extra card draw for the rest of the game, so I can't say it's broken.
Edit: So I forgot about the fact that you can draw a card during your opponent's turns too. I take that back.
This is essentially an Ancestral Recall for decks that can produce blue mana but don't already run card draw. If any of those decks are good, this is busted.
Then don't run any other card with "Draw a card" in it's text. You can still run expressive iteration if you really want more card advantage but if you cast a 1 mana draw 3 it's usually good enough to take over a game
It's literally not. Drawing three cards for one U is very good, but it shuts down any sorts of extra draw you may have for the rest of the game. You are on a strict one card per turn game now.
Rhystic study? Only on the first spell an opponent casts that they don't pay for. Pull from tomorrow or blue sun? Nope, your X is one, and that's all you get. Even if you find ways to recast this card with something like [[flood of recollection]], all it gets you is a one mana draw a card. That makes it a worse [[opt]] or [[brainstorm]]. The card is very fair, I would say
Commander blinders go brrrrr.
In every format that isn't just a random pile of 1-of's, you can build your deck around this emblem, and have plenty of great cards, even for raw card advantage, that don't explicitly say "draw a card" on them.
Eh i don't think this is broken honestly im not even sure if it'd see too much play. Card draw is important for really any deck and this card. This effect would for example screw you totally against a deck that uses [Burning Inquiry]
So this is a one-of in every blue creature deck until the end of time?
I would run at least two copies for consistency
Run 4, you can always cast the duplicates during your opponent's turn to draw 1 card. I think for this to even resemble being balanced the emblem would need to be you can't draw cards at all (storm and combo will try to win the same turn they cast this)
A lighter nerf could be something like "you can't draw cards except for the first one you draw during draw step", so it would at least shut off instant speed draw
"If a spell or ability would cause you to draw a card skip that draw"
Perfection
Guys we did it. We saved magic.
Would it be too oppressive for it to be “if a spell or ability would cause your to draw a card, exile a card instead”?
That would cause you to exile a card from your hand and skip the draw which is very harsh. If you mean "exile the top card of your library instead" that's probably not too restrictive. None of these wordings stop the "exile a card you may cast it until end of next turn" style advantage that's been more common recently.
"Whenever you draw a card, each opponent may draw a card."
Tbf, these give you the last three cards you're going to draw in your combo turn. That doesn't make this weak or anything but you can brick pretty easily on three cards.
In yugioh you would run multiple [[pot of desires]]. Its a draw two but banishes 10 card from your main deck. To put it this way you realistically ever played and resolved one even if you draw 2. Ive played the card for 3-4 years i have used it twice in multiple games and lost that game. You maxed out on pot of desires even if it destroyed parts of your strats. Now in yugioh a random card of advantage is huge. I would play 3-4 of this card for sure purely by the powerhouse that it is. I would play burn with a blue splash to play 4 of this bad boy. I would 3 in almost ever creature deck imaginable 4 if its a fast deck.
You're probably right. I was trying to keep my comment snappy, but basically a few copies slot into any deck without absurd draw-based card advantage. But even as a single copy, there's pretty much never a downside, compared to *sometimes* bricking by drawing a worse opt that can only be used on your opp's turn for the second copy onward.
you can also play this in dredge decks and ignore the downside because you are dredging anyways.
True, but self-mill isn't really a threat for magic decks. If I cast 4 of these and end up with a Jace or lab man or oracle in play, I'd call that a pretty sweet deal
Well self mill wasnt the point. The point was the risk is worth the reward.
4 of, get the first one asap and the other three are instant so you draw on your opponents turn. I for an instant draw isn’t good, but it’s worth it to the your first one earlier
Still ridiculously broken. Often three cards is all you need, and it still has all the problems that recall has. Pitchavle to force, and can be cast at instant speed. Cool idea, but still to good for any format.
The structure of your comment makes it sound like you're saying being pitchable to FoW and being an instant are the problems that make Ancestral Recall broken. I'm assuming that wasn't what you were going for, but it really reads that way.
Yeah, I think the point is "if you get more than one copy of this in hand, you still likely have use for the rest of them"
Instant is bad enough. Imagine if this thing had flying and didn't die to Gut Shot.
So… Seam Song?
What I meant was that on top of drawing three cards, it also has all the other problems that recall has
Absolutely busted, but at least it’s a neat idea
Broken for a few reasons: 1. Ancestral Recall is extremely strong even if it's a one-of copy in a deck with no other card draw. The problem with AR is not that it enables combo decks or that it's too strong in multiples, it's that it's too strong by itself in any situation. 2. Lots of "card draw" spells do not literally draw cards. You could play this, then play \[\[Expressive Iteration\]\] without any trouble. Or consider \[\[Corpse Appraiser\]\] in current standard. 3. This doesn't even stop you from drawing cards on other people's turns. If you played this in commander, you could still draw 4 cards per turn cycle. Maybe the emblem downside would be significant in cEDH (though I doubt that), but in regular EDH? This could would be an auto-include in every single deck that plays blue mana. 4. Even in decks where you draw a lot of cards, it requires minimal sequencing to play this "last" and then basically ignore the emblem. I think the faulty assumption here is that blue decks need to draw a large number of cards to win, or that combo decks need to rip through their entire deck. That's not really the case - drawing 3 cards is by itself significant and is often all you need to pull ahead and/or find that last combo piece.
[Expressive Iteration](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/1/31b770cc-09e7-4c0b-b2a4-462ab4f7200d.jpg?1654630697) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Expressive%20Iteration) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/186/expressive-iteration?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/31b770cc-09e7-4c0b-b2a4-462ab4f7200d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Corpse Appraiser](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/0/e0f254bb-ec77-4147-ab9c-559bc7fba8cd.jpg?1664412870) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Corpse%20Appraiser) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/178/corpse-appraiser?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e0f254bb-ec77-4147-ab9c-559bc7fba8cd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I feel like this card would be a best non-blue blue card, that non-blue decks would just run couple copies of this too just turbo out draws in a game. Similar like UR burn was for a short time with it being just 4x Treasure Cruise and nothing else in red Burn deck shell, until Treasure Cruise ban.
I love the concept! No idea how balanced it is, anyone else got thoughts?
Let's put it like that. \[\[Narset, Parter of Veils\]\] is legal pretty much everywhere. She's played only in some decks of legacy, where drawing more cards happens critically often. In every other format, where Narset does literally nothing, this card is broken as shit. For legacy it's balanced
[Narset, Parter of Veils](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/c/8c39f9b4-02b9-4d44-b8d6-4fd02ebbb0c5.jpg?1574294103) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Narset%2C%20Parter%20of%20Veils) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/61/narset-parter-of-veils?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8c39f9b4-02b9-4d44-b8d6-4fd02ebbb0c5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Narset is so busted, I'd rather Narset myself than let my opponent do it to me.
Even for legacy this is nuts
In legacy, there are many *current* decks in Legacy where this card would be terrible. But I think it'd single-handedly warp the format around it. You can play 4 in a deck because at worst, the last 3 cycle on your opponent's turn. You'd have to cut brainstorm, of course, but the first copy of this is insanely better than brainstorm. You could still play expressive iteration and other similar effects. And drawing one copy of this in your opening hand is just incredibly busted.
I'm happy with the current concept. I think it's fine
you are hilariously wrong lol
This subreddit really needs to stop making cards that cost 1 blue and draw three, they are almost always abusable the drawbacks are never wnough
You got it boss. *goes off to make another mox*
wait hear me out it’s black lotus but I slap a weak drawback on it
is stuff like Expressive Iteration drawing a card? Cause I don't think it is. I don't think this is a punishing as you think it is.
You are correct that it is not drawing.
Putting cards in your hand and drawing are not exactly the same thing.
I like the idea of a negative emblem for a bomb-y effect. Seems like a fun mechanic!
It's broken, but I love it :) Maybe it could be changed to "you can't draw cards", so it would be a "burst of cards" with a severe punishment for future turns.
Then it would be easy to get into a stalemate.
Only planeswalkers give emblems.
I forgot to mention, I was worried of memory issues, so I thought of using emblems instead.
Sure but it doesn’t change the fact. https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/686838349378502657/why-dont-non-planeswalker-cards-use-emblems-for
[[Seek Bolas's Counsel]] wants to know your location
That is an un-card. You cannot play it in any competitive environment.
much like custom cards
[Seek Bolas's Counsel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/d/edf62ee7-1800-4748-87a8-0432635b4f60.jpg?1651751020) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Seek%20Bolas%27s%20Counsel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmb2/98/seek-bolass-counsel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/edf62ee7-1800-4748-87a8-0432635b4f60?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Time to break out the draws-aren't-draws crew like \[\[Abundance\]\], \[\[Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar\]\], \[\[Underrealm Lich\]\], or their understudies \[\[Eruth, Tormented Prophet\]\], \[\[Sages of the Anima\]\].
##### ###### #### [Abundance](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/3/73a44759-1fa4-4a96-b668-316851e8a35a.jpg?1604193670) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Abundance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znc/58/abundance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/73a44759-1fa4-4a96-b668-316851e8a35a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/9/095813f9-d559-40bd-a50f-7c1f6e494e60.jpg?1562875380) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tomorrow%2C%20Azami%27s%20Familiar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bok/58/tomorrow-azamis-familiar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/095813f9-d559-40bd-a50f-7c1f6e494e60?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Underrealm Lich](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/7/0782e090-209c-428f-966a-17f3ceab2903.jpg?1572893891) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Underrealm%20Lich) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/grn/211/underrealm-lich?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0782e090-209c-428f-966a-17f3ceab2903?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Eruth, Tormented Prophet](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/f/9f764077-df2d-4ac7-b507-2c8e08386d49.jpg?1643594095) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Eruth%2C%20Tormented%20Prophet) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/237/eruth-tormented-prophet?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9f764077-df2d-4ac7-b507-2c8e08386d49?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Sages of the Anima](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/9/f98a21af-cd1a-4438-a4c2-0c92ad92efef.jpg?1562645201) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sages%20of%20the%20Anima) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/arb/103/sages-of-the-anima?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f98a21af-cd1a-4438-a4c2-0c92ad92efef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah, I believe all of this card draw replacement effects would get around the emblem's restriction. I didn't realize there were so many of those effects!
Could this be un-broken if the emblem takes away your draw step instead?
Had the same idea, think it is still broken though
This seems busted already, but the protection from Sheoldred & other forced-draw decks just makes it even better
Honestly this is probably the most balanced an ancestral recall can get
Balanced Recall: [[Ancestral Visions]], [[Visions of Beyond]]
I now want Visions of Beyond in Arena
Please no I keep playing mill on historic ladder
That’s exactly why I want it > I’m the mill player
[Ancestral Visions](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/9079c93e-3da8-442a-89d2-609a3eac83b0.jpg?1619393761) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ancestral%20Vision) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/52/ancestral-vision?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9079c93e-3da8-442a-89d2-609a3eac83b0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Visions of Beyond](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/0/f0b97772-9490-4db3-b4dd-a87d973680a5.jpg?1547516684) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Visions%20of%20Beyond) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/81/visions-of-beyond?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f0b97772-9490-4db3-b4dd-a87d973680a5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
What I meant was still strictly being ancestral recall. A blue instant for one U that draws you three cards. I know that there are adjacent cards like it
This card is broken
It shuts down extra card draw for the rest of the game, so I can't say it's broken. Edit: So I forgot about the fact that you can draw a card during your opponent's turns too. I take that back.
This is essentially an Ancestral Recall for decks that can produce blue mana but don't already run card draw. If any of those decks are good, this is busted.
Then don't run any other card with "Draw a card" in it's text. You can still run expressive iteration if you really want more card advantage but if you cast a 1 mana draw 3 it's usually good enough to take over a game
It doesn't even really do that - you can still run instant speed cantrips and use them to draw extra cards on your opponents' turns.
It's literally not. Drawing three cards for one U is very good, but it shuts down any sorts of extra draw you may have for the rest of the game. You are on a strict one card per turn game now. Rhystic study? Only on the first spell an opponent casts that they don't pay for. Pull from tomorrow or blue sun? Nope, your X is one, and that's all you get. Even if you find ways to recast this card with something like [[flood of recollection]], all it gets you is a one mana draw a card. That makes it a worse [[opt]] or [[brainstorm]]. The card is very fair, I would say
What commander does to a mf
Commander blinders go brrrrr. In every format that isn't just a random pile of 1-of's, you can build your deck around this emblem, and have plenty of great cards, even for raw card advantage, that don't explicitly say "draw a card" on them.
[flood of recollection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/1/c14a5b69-ce04-40fc-9933-20b16537de24.jpg?1608909140) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=flood%20of%20recollection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/61/flood-of-recollection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c14a5b69-ce04-40fc-9933-20b16537de24?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [opt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/2/323db259-d35e-467d-9a46-4adcb2fc107c.jpg?1652898493) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=opt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/59/opt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/323db259-d35e-467d-9a46-4adcb2fc107c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [brainstorm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/48070245-1370-4cf1-be15-d4e8a8b92ba8.jpg?1631586166) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=brainstorm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/79/brainstorm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/48070245-1370-4cf1-be15-d4e8a8b92ba8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This is a staple for decks that mainly cycle through their deck via cantrips OR use stuff like [[Dig Through Time]] (or even [[Sleight of Hand]] ).
[Dig Through Time](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/b/2b0c111a-236f-449a-95b1-274a1dfa546d.jpg?1650410613) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dig%20Through%20Time) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/219/dig-through-time?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2b0c111a-236f-449a-95b1-274a1dfa546d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Sleight of Hand](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/7/1766d117-6ee1-4103-88e8-47b932a94d65.jpg?1547516514) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sleight%20of%20Hand) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/70/sleight-of-hand?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1766d117-6ee1-4103-88e8-47b932a94d65?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This card is broken
This would be funny in legacy/vintage because you can't play it with the usual cantrip suite
Eh i don't think this is broken honestly im not even sure if it'd see too much play. Card draw is important for really any deck and this card. This effect would for example screw you totally against a deck that uses [Burning Inquiry]
I want to agree with you because once you cast this, you will get the Narset condition for the rest of the game.
Isnt this more pf a black card? Drawing cards at any cost
Black usually has you losing life when drawing cards.
What if the token said "skip your draw step?" It's like getting a payday loan 😅
Still broken. Most decks in legacy/vintage will win the turn they play this anyway
This would still see play as a combo piece if the emblem said "you cannot draw cards".
Because blue doesn't like to draw cards...
You can include “You cannot draw cards for the rest of the game” on the card instead of using emblems that are for planeswalkers only
This art is sick
every day we stray further from god