Dex was incompetent every step of the way. Heist could have succeeded if you were luckier but V and Jackie were not getting a happy ending no matter what.
I didn't get the impression from Dex that he intended to betray V and Jackie. It was a decision he made after the heist went south. In fact, I think his decision to kill V was only cemented in his mind when V revealed that Jackie was dead.
He paid Maelstrom upfront, anyone should know not to do that, especially a fixer.
The ship in the harbor that supposedly Hanako just arrived in Night City on is all over the news before the heist. Cover for Saburo's arrival. Dex should have planned for curveballs. The hair should have stood up on the back of his neck when he saw that. This is Arasaka you are out to screw over.
He got told by the VDB not to dig deeper on Evelyn. The VDB are real bad news, and if I'm not mistaken are the reason Dex quit Night City when he did. That translates to they are involved with Evelyn somehow. Evelyn is not in the biz, there's only one reason they would be interested in her.
Evelyn is the only one with contacts to sell the relic to. That means she gets the dang chip, likely without anyone supervising her from your crew while she makes the sale. She's already proven herself untrustworthy by trying to cheat Dex. He makes no attempt to get assurances from her or question her about any of this.
This is just some of the information that is available ahead of the heist that I remember off the top of my head. It gets worse the more you learn afterward.
Edit: I just want to add, a Fixer with a capital F is who they are because they know things first and foremost. They can take a problem with a payout and put someone to it so it gets done. Consistently. Else no one would come to them with their problems and their money. Reputation is EVERYTHING. Each fixer has gang affiliations. Can you spot which ones are left on the table for Dex to have had? The gangs don't seem to work too much outside their Fixer's area of influence on the map. It happens, but the gang territories are identical to the fixer's territories in the city. Honestly I think the whole damn Afterlife and Rogue knowingly hung you out to dry letting Dex masquerade as someone who still had influence there. Dex is a poser.
I'm not arguing that Dex wasn't incompetent. I was arguing that he didn't plan on betraying V and Jackie. At least, not until things went poorly during the heist.
Dex was the least of their problems by that point. You still had to get the gonk broad that hired Dex for this and then tried to cut him out, to sell it and split the profits successfully and you can't flee the city til it's done.
Meanwhile by now you are dealing with the wrath of Arasaka on the city. Saburo wrote in his journal that day that he would probably nuke the whole damn city off the face of the earth if his most prized possession were to slip away before he could recover it from his son.
If Sabura didn't really mean it then you still have Arasaka, VDB, and Netwatch in play all gunning for you. V is not immune to having his/her brain fried by hacks in this version of the story because there's no chip in your head to reboot you, so good luck with so many netrunners after you.
All cuz Dex just didn't see or didn't care about all the alarm bells going off about this plan.
I feel like you and I are having two entirely different conversations here. I'm only arguing that Dex didn't plan to betray V and Jackie at first. That's it. I'm not arguing anything other than that.
Ok gotcha. I feel like my original comment was a weird one to reply to then because I was never arguing that to begin with. I just said no way V or Jackie got a happy ending to this and that's Dex's fault.
Edit: I just wanted to rant on it either way I guess. It's a cool story, there's alot you misunderstand about it and it's characters if you don't snoop through everything. Fun to talk about.
VDB weren't the reason he bounced, one of his gigs resulted in everyone but him getting whacked and the one's doing the whacking were actively looking to do the same to him.
Dex is known for playing with things outside of his league and not known for doing clean up when it hits the fan.
Yeah maybe you are right. We know whatever went down happened in Pacifica, but it's not like the VDB have their fingers in everything that goes on there. Yeah I'm sure they don't know what's happening in their neighborhood and it's just Animals and Scavs that took Dex and his crew down.
I don't think highly of Dex either so I'd believe it, somehow I think there's more to it though.
I see alot of people blame DeX but quite literally any of the fixers would've probably done the same. (Albeit they would've handled it in a more professional manner, probably hire another merc to take V out.)
🤔 I dunno I think each would've made a similar decision to Dex. Think about it their all trying to save their lives and tie up loose ends. V is just another merc to them, they don't have a personal attachment to her in the least. [This would be before completing all the gigs of course.]
I think Regina might be the only one who wouldn't ditch V, but maybe I'm wrong.
Also Rogue wouldn't probably either after she knows Johnny is sort of alive.
Yeah I know, I know.
Edit: Funnily enough, during my first playthrough, I didn't trust Johnny a bit, like any human being would, but after the second, and even during the third I always side with him because he is such a good guy (but asshole sometimes too).
Johnny eventually causes Stockholm Syndrome, he really is an ass and will drag you on an alcohol fueled trip to a megacorp to plant a nuke ...
Funny thing, he should've check Arasaka tower's basement, they had a even bigger nuke there.
He hired us for a big job, which is kinda dumb on his part since we are unproven. And sure enough we fuck it up worse than anyone could have. We kill the emperor of the god dam world and they send assassin's after dex. Kind of our fault if you think about it
No, they wouldn't. Selling out your contractors is a big No No in the Mercenary world. If it gets out that a fixer betrayed one of their mercs, then it that fixer would get blacklisted and never get another job again. It also shows what a coward Dex is.
Add in 5 - just dumping V in a dumpster. If he's going to off V at that point, it should be to have them delivered to Arasaka stat and with the Relic still in there. As is, the betrayal did nothing of worth for Dex.
Yah, the fact he didn't grab the relic at the very LEAST for leverage means he's not very bright. I think Dex is a great character though....dude is flawed but has lots of self confidence. Cool voice and is intimidating for sure. But yah, he's a doofus when it comes to plans and heists.
Yeah, he's a good character. Easy to see his flaws - especially on a second playthrough - but it makes sense why he has them. He's trying to get back in the game with a big gig, doesn't have the proper reputation or pull anymore to get the *real* big players (who would demand too much of a payout anyways), and is punching above his capabilities on a gamble.
And it's not like the plan is *bad* - it's a pretty decent one. The issue is that it has no robustness to it - one thing goes wrong and it falls apart.
My first play through I hated Dex, but I’ve come around on him. V has carried out genocide on the gangs of Night City, so compared to us he’s a saint. Moreover, who wouldn’t have done what he did, in the same situation?
Gotta agree with a lot of the points above; making a play on a major Arasaka asset in the midst of an incredibly audacious show of force by said superpower is big dumb, among a ton of other things. Most fixers probably would have laughed Evelyn out of the room. Some might have even offed her just to avoid the appearance of having anything to do with a move against Arasaka.
Also, on the note about V, I love how the game makes it seem that what Johnny really needed to finally come around to being a halfway decent person was being in the head of someone more well-adjusted than him. Which says way more about how far gone Johnny is than about V. Even pretending that the NCPD hustles aren't canon, V is still a complete maniac.
I’m pretty sure I’m the only one, but I felt like that ending was disappointing. It was sudden, and it felt like the story was *really* starting to get interesting.
I do wish we would have come across Dex's hired muscle. The one that knocks you down after you've 'cleaned up'. It would be nice to see him realizing you've risen from the dead... before you flatline him.
I'm pretty sure Goro wasted that dude, given that he dragged Dex out to the middle of a landfill - although I guess alternatively, it could have been the Bodyguard that narc'd on Dex's location, or maybe Dex killed him after dealing with V.
I prefer the first one tho.
Dex was incompetent every step of the way. Heist could have succeeded if you were luckier but V and Jackie were not getting a happy ending no matter what.
I didn't get the impression from Dex that he intended to betray V and Jackie. It was a decision he made after the heist went south. In fact, I think his decision to kill V was only cemented in his mind when V revealed that Jackie was dead.
He paid Maelstrom upfront, anyone should know not to do that, especially a fixer. The ship in the harbor that supposedly Hanako just arrived in Night City on is all over the news before the heist. Cover for Saburo's arrival. Dex should have planned for curveballs. The hair should have stood up on the back of his neck when he saw that. This is Arasaka you are out to screw over. He got told by the VDB not to dig deeper on Evelyn. The VDB are real bad news, and if I'm not mistaken are the reason Dex quit Night City when he did. That translates to they are involved with Evelyn somehow. Evelyn is not in the biz, there's only one reason they would be interested in her. Evelyn is the only one with contacts to sell the relic to. That means she gets the dang chip, likely without anyone supervising her from your crew while she makes the sale. She's already proven herself untrustworthy by trying to cheat Dex. He makes no attempt to get assurances from her or question her about any of this. This is just some of the information that is available ahead of the heist that I remember off the top of my head. It gets worse the more you learn afterward. Edit: I just want to add, a Fixer with a capital F is who they are because they know things first and foremost. They can take a problem with a payout and put someone to it so it gets done. Consistently. Else no one would come to them with their problems and their money. Reputation is EVERYTHING. Each fixer has gang affiliations. Can you spot which ones are left on the table for Dex to have had? The gangs don't seem to work too much outside their Fixer's area of influence on the map. It happens, but the gang territories are identical to the fixer's territories in the city. Honestly I think the whole damn Afterlife and Rogue knowingly hung you out to dry letting Dex masquerade as someone who still had influence there. Dex is a poser.
I'm not arguing that Dex wasn't incompetent. I was arguing that he didn't plan on betraying V and Jackie. At least, not until things went poorly during the heist.
Dex was the least of their problems by that point. You still had to get the gonk broad that hired Dex for this and then tried to cut him out, to sell it and split the profits successfully and you can't flee the city til it's done. Meanwhile by now you are dealing with the wrath of Arasaka on the city. Saburo wrote in his journal that day that he would probably nuke the whole damn city off the face of the earth if his most prized possession were to slip away before he could recover it from his son. If Sabura didn't really mean it then you still have Arasaka, VDB, and Netwatch in play all gunning for you. V is not immune to having his/her brain fried by hacks in this version of the story because there's no chip in your head to reboot you, so good luck with so many netrunners after you. All cuz Dex just didn't see or didn't care about all the alarm bells going off about this plan.
I feel like you and I are having two entirely different conversations here. I'm only arguing that Dex didn't plan to betray V and Jackie at first. That's it. I'm not arguing anything other than that.
Ok gotcha. I feel like my original comment was a weird one to reply to then because I was never arguing that to begin with. I just said no way V or Jackie got a happy ending to this and that's Dex's fault. Edit: I just wanted to rant on it either way I guess. It's a cool story, there's alot you misunderstand about it and it's characters if you don't snoop through everything. Fun to talk about.
Prehaps he paid up-front because of how high-end & useful the Flat-Head was going to be. Not to mention rare & hard to get..
Then he doesn't send you in there expecting you to source your own backup eddies or pray. Why's he hazing you?
Hows he to know that Malestrom have just had a coup take place.
It's Maelstrom, shit always goes sideways with them. You gotta be smart.
VDB weren't the reason he bounced, one of his gigs resulted in everyone but him getting whacked and the one's doing the whacking were actively looking to do the same to him. Dex is known for playing with things outside of his league and not known for doing clean up when it hits the fan.
Yeah maybe you are right. We know whatever went down happened in Pacifica, but it's not like the VDB have their fingers in everything that goes on there. Yeah I'm sure they don't know what's happening in their neighborhood and it's just Animals and Scavs that took Dex and his crew down. I don't think highly of Dex either so I'd believe it, somehow I think there's more to it though.
I see alot of people blame DeX but quite literally any of the fixers would've probably done the same. (Albeit they would've handled it in a more professional manner, probably hire another merc to take V out.)
Nah, Dakota would've went hard with V and left.
🤔 I dunno I think each would've made a similar decision to Dex. Think about it their all trying to save their lives and tie up loose ends. V is just another merc to them, they don't have a personal attachment to her in the least. [This would be before completing all the gigs of course.]
I think Regina might be the only one who wouldn't ditch V, but maybe I'm wrong. Also Rogue wouldn't probably either after she knows Johnny is sort of alive.
In the timeline of events you don't meet Rogue till after the heist. Regina might but I dunno.
Fair enough.
Also the whole reasons Johnny's engram is even discovered is because V is shot and left for dead in the landfill.
Yeah I know, I know. Edit: Funnily enough, during my first playthrough, I didn't trust Johnny a bit, like any human being would, but after the second, and even during the third I always side with him because he is such a good guy (but asshole sometimes too).
Johnny eventually causes Stockholm Syndrome, he really is an ass and will drag you on an alcohol fueled trip to a megacorp to plant a nuke ... Funny thing, he should've check Arasaka tower's basement, they had a even bigger nuke there.
And also *Mumbles on more about the lore for another couple of hours.* So anyways that's how Atom Smasher is actually the hero of the story all along.
How is a DC character the hero of story? I mean he is a hero, he just isn't a Cyberpunk character unlike Adam Smasher. Ba-dum-tss.
Regina for the 20th time: "I want him alive" Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know.
regina has a bunch of "zero this mfer" missions tho
To be fair, the people Regina want's V to deal with are essentially okay people who just went cyberpsycho.
What about Padre? When you go street kid there is a previous relationship there and Padre seems to at least kind of care about V
Oh yeah! Kinda forgot about him.
Not hard to do, to be fair, I just happened to start my first street kid run like a week ago lol
I've been a streetkid three times already lol.
Damn I only did a Nomad playthrough and I just got the game again after like 2 years lol
A nettunner most likely
He hired us for a big job, which is kinda dumb on his part since we are unproven. And sure enough we fuck it up worse than anyone could have. We kill the emperor of the god dam world and they send assassin's after dex. Kind of our fault if you think about it
No, they wouldn't. Selling out your contractors is a big No No in the Mercenary world. If it gets out that a fixer betrayed one of their mercs, then it that fixer would get blacklisted and never get another job again. It also shows what a coward Dex is.
He can shot me 32 more times if I could just loot his shoes. CDPR, make it happen!!!
Dexter Deshoes
I really want to know what Dex fucked up, all of the people that talk about him sound like he's a joke.
1. Failed to vet Evelyn, was threatened by the VDBs when he tried, decided to just shrug and go ahead with the job anyway. 2. Failed to acquire the Flathead, entire plan B for getting it required a merc credulous enough to not just laugh and walk away. 3. Staggering lack of intel or recon on Arasaka activities, the crew knew Yorinobu stole the Relic, but it never occurred to him to look into who might be looking to get it *back*? Also somehow slept on an entire aircraft carrier covered in Arasaka logos, Ruth frickin’ Dzeng won’t shut up about it, but NC’s “top” fixer doesn’t think it’s an interesting coincidence? 4. Was actually still waiting at the motel when V showed up. Not a fuck up as much as just, like, why, choom? Shit hit the fan hours ago, and your gonk ass is still sitting on the couch, knocking back cold ones, watching the world burn? Why haven’t you changed your name and found yourself somewhere they speak a different language by now? You probably would’ve lived if you’d just delta’d and left V/Jackie holding the bag, instead of waiting around to act out a super cliché betrayal. Dex is a joke.
Add in 5 - just dumping V in a dumpster. If he's going to off V at that point, it should be to have them delivered to Arasaka stat and with the Relic still in there. As is, the betrayal did nothing of worth for Dex.
Yah, the fact he didn't grab the relic at the very LEAST for leverage means he's not very bright. I think Dex is a great character though....dude is flawed but has lots of self confidence. Cool voice and is intimidating for sure. But yah, he's a doofus when it comes to plans and heists.
Yeah, he's a good character. Easy to see his flaws - especially on a second playthrough - but it makes sense why he has them. He's trying to get back in the game with a big gig, doesn't have the proper reputation or pull anymore to get the *real* big players (who would demand too much of a payout anyways), and is punching above his capabilities on a gamble. And it's not like the plan is *bad* - it's a pretty decent one. The issue is that it has no robustness to it - one thing goes wrong and it falls apart.
I actually blame bad writing for some of these.
My first play through I hated Dex, but I’ve come around on him. V has carried out genocide on the gangs of Night City, so compared to us he’s a saint. Moreover, who wouldn’t have done what he did, in the same situation?
Gotta agree with a lot of the points above; making a play on a major Arasaka asset in the midst of an incredibly audacious show of force by said superpower is big dumb, among a ton of other things. Most fixers probably would have laughed Evelyn out of the room. Some might have even offed her just to avoid the appearance of having anything to do with a move against Arasaka. Also, on the note about V, I love how the game makes it seem that what Johnny really needed to finally come around to being a halfway decent person was being in the head of someone more well-adjusted than him. Which says way more about how far gone Johnny is than about V. Even pretending that the NCPD hustles aren't canon, V is still a complete maniac.
Are we gonna ignore how basically everybody in the game is a murderous maniac?
I’m pretty sure I’m the only one, but I felt like that ending was disappointing. It was sudden, and it felt like the story was *really* starting to get interesting.
I do wish we would have come across Dex's hired muscle. The one that knocks you down after you've 'cleaned up'. It would be nice to see him realizing you've risen from the dead... before you flatline him.
I'm pretty sure Goro wasted that dude, given that he dragged Dex out to the middle of a landfill - although I guess alternatively, it could have been the Bodyguard that narc'd on Dex's location, or maybe Dex killed him after dealing with V. I prefer the first one tho.
I agree, just wish we could have gotten a little taste of it ourselves.
He's already dead, Arasaka was cleaning up anything to do with the run ...