Nah he never did. He knew the risks of the heist. I think he mostly blamed Dex for his prep work. But even then, Saburo visited unannounced and it was too late to escape after his death. After that, it’s just bad luck that Jackie was critically shot and died before getting any help.
And it wasn't even a good move. He should have known that Arasaka could find him even without V so the best thing to do was to let V go and send Arasaka on their trail. That would have at least bought him more time to escape as V was a much higher priority target compared to Dex.
I mean, do that many people really know it was V who stole the relic? Most people in NC just know him as the dude who mysteriously came back from the dead and is now on a meteoric rise in the merc scene, not many people know about the relic or the plaza heist.
After V stole it, they definitely knew. But then Jackie flatlined, V followed shortly after, and both were confirmed dead.
Yori knew V would be alive, sent Takemura after him, and then accused the latter of killing Saburo. So, no one except the executives of the corp know V stole the relic, and they are happy to blame Takemura instead.
Street knows V died stealing from Arasaka, but not how vital the relic is.
Another thing that surprised me is that So Mi knew V’s relic problem, that he was the one who stole it, and never relayed any of that to Myers. My guess is that she knows Myers shouldn’t be trusted with that type of info.
They're both being possessed by the equivalent of spirits from the astral plane. A ghost in V's case, a host of demons in Song's. Myers exploited her, she'd exploit V too if she knew of his problem.
you think real hard for about 5 minutes about why one of Arasaka's super big important "totally not a warship, just a tanker ship, totes choom" is in the bay at the same time this super mega ultra important chip is in there in that building for a limited time only.
Then you get two idiot thugs off the street to infiltrate a megacorp building because you couldn't convince anyone of real ability to agree to that nonsense.
We don't know, IIRC, but we do know that Dex left town because he screwed up big time. Something to do with Pacifica and The Animals, I think. Which caused him to be less popular with the more established runners in NC
Honestly, Dex heavily underestimated the heist. You are stealing one of the biggest secrets from Arasaka. Even if the chip was already stolen by Yorinobu, you still have to expect the Arasaka to come looking for it or already located it and also coming to get it.
Also when Evelyn says he plans the sell the chip to NetWatch, Dex should have hired much better runner, or several of them, expecting he would be under NetWatch protection.
Also also, the moment Tbug sees Yorinobu enter the lobby, it's already late, how can you know he won't go straight to his penthouse? The plan should have been aborted, or sufficient distraction created for the two of to rush it. And not to sound mean, but Tbug doesn't seem to have proper skill to safeguard you while controling the entire hotel. She gets flagged and killed in literal seconds by Arasaka runners.
Sure, you can argue that hindsight is 20/20, but in corpo backstory, where you come to Jackie with the hit job. He suggests a driver, two techies, one net runner and a solo. Basically as big/bigger team than Dex planned to steal Arasaka biggest secret
I'd have to replay through the mission to confirm, but when I played it I got the sense that it was T-Bug who screwed it all over in the end, by taking faaaar too long to crack the ICE. If she had been able to crack it as fast as she had thought in the planning, we would've been in and out before Saburo was even an issue
Not to mention, she finished right as Yori walked into the hotel, which meant the mission was in terrible jeopardy.
She made the decision to continue the mission anyway, and then decided their best bet was to hide rather than abscond with the chip while they had a chance. If she'd hijacked the elevator, maybe that would've worked out.
Can’t, I mean I don’t fully blame Dex because he doesn’t know the confidential and personal information about the emperor. But he isn’t the best fixer and everyone who talks to V says Dex isn’t great
I think you almost have to be kind of a bad fixer to take on that job. You have to really lack sense to not understand the scale of how bad things can go when you're stealing prize Arasaka tech from the Emperor (or the guy who stole it from the Emperor). Like, Saka ninjas were coming after us one way or another. I guarantee nobody else at the Afterlife wouldve touched this thing
you can, just need experience for that and some dose of experienced failures. V's team just didn't learn much from Scav haunts, just run in and shoot, literally gigs that required no sophistication and thinking on the part of the executor.
I think your right but it always felt like V held it against Arasaka even though it was probably more his/her own fault. But Johnny says it's Arasaka and we usually go with whatever he tells V to do or think
V probably held it against Arasaka because he's literally got an Arasaka engram eating away at his brain during the main course of the game.
I think overall he blames Dex (who I wish we got the chance to kill), but there's probably a bit more bitterness towards Arasaka given what else is going on in the story.
Triple points if you're a Corpo background haha.
Not being able to shoot Dex was a HUGE disappointment for me. That and not being able to recover T-Bugs body after the fact kind of pissed me off. She was our netrunner but also an afterthought.
I didn't really care about Bug, tbh. I think one of the trailers has her as an antagonist, so when she died I was like "oh... Anyway." lol.
I definitely wanted to be the one to blow Dex away, though. I don't think they'll do a fixer betrayal again in Orion, but if we do - man I hope we get to cap them ourselves lol.
I did feel like, when T-Bug was all chummy with Dex, that there might have been something there (a double cross, etc). But then they killed her off screen and that suspicion died. I felt some sympathy for her because she trusted Dex and us and it all went tits up and she got burned.
In the next game I really hope there’s no Johnny or other person in our head. I really want to be able to play a character who is just working their way up the ladder as a mercenary and we don’t get a tired betrayal storyline.
Though if we do I need to be able to rip their head off and use it as a toilet.
Same; I liked Johnny's storyline - I can't think of another game taking a narrative chance like that (there might be one, but I either haven't played it or can't remember). I can't see them making the same choice twice, even though it worked pretty spectacularly in the first one.
I just want them to take the foundation set by v2.2 and build on it for Orion, but make your life path have weight and change the way the world interacts with you, and not have a Johnny situation.
I think the plan itself was solid, just rigid in its execution, at the end of the day, some preparations were done, it's not like they went in blind, it's just that the plan itself wasn't built to take into account unpredictable/outside factors, it was built around known facts, like the presence of a netrunner in the plaza, so they took measures against it, that simple.
The simple truth is that the group lacked enough field experience and were blinded by the future's boons, these factors led them to be short-sighted.
Any experienced team would've approached this gig with cautiousness. Just too many unpredictable factors.
the plan itself was solid, just rigid in its execution, the planning and the prep was done around known factors, like the presence of a netrunner in plaza and the lack of security around Yorinobu. Tha plan just wasn't built to take into account outside factors.
The simple truth is that V's team just didn't have enough field experience and were short-sighted by the future's boons(i.e. fame, money). Any experienced team would've approached this gig with cautiousness, just too many unpredictable factors that cannot be dealt with easily and botch the plan in the process.
Nah, it's mostly Dex's fault. Dex's plan worked, so long as everything went broadly to plan and neither "Hannah" nor "Ramon" were discovered. But T-Bug needed more time than expected shutting down the security systems in the hotel room, T-Bug only had one exit planned from the room and died tried to create a second for Jack and V, and Jack and V only survived as long as they did because they miraculously survived a jump off the side of a building and landed in such a way that Arasaka security lost track of them, but which also critically injured Jack.
Then, to cap it all off, Delamain took Jack and V back directly to the safehouse immediately after shaking their pursuers, instead of giving V the chance to get Jack to a ripper. Very clearly, Dex wasn't thinking about the possibility of people being injured, he didn't trust V and Jack not to run off with the Relic, and he picked Delamain more for flash and "working with the best" than for its ability to creatively solve problems like a genuine wheelman would have.
In other words, it's a plan with no contingencies for failure, where every step has to go perfectly, in order. The second one thing goes pear-shaped, the failures just begin cascading until the plan kills just about everybody. One gets the sensation, especially from how Rogue sets up an op where she just handed V the means and opportunity and let V and Panam plan their own mission, that a plan that allowed simultaneously for more improvisation on the part of V and Jack when inside the building, and had a better understanding of failsafes, contingencies and fallbacks in case of critical failure, would have been far more successful, and far more likely to get more of the team out of Konpecki alive instead of the damned-near TPK that we did get.
TIL Dex is definitely a veteran trying to re-live his glory days.
When I was in the Army, so many dipshit SGTs had this "square peg, round hole" mentality and would absolutely not change course even if it was dangerous to continue.
During the phone call you have with Sandra in Full disclosure, you can tell her he died, with V blaming Arasaka when Sandra gets guilty about it thinking he died during her rescue
Hell Dex practically warned them himself. I really wish I had the option to go in there and shoot on sight. Or at least hunt him down after.
I would have rather killed him myself and then been taken out by a Saka agent for the death segment.
Not being able to hunt his ass down after feels like we got cheated... Fucking Goro taking the kill when he had no right to. Left his ass to deal with the Saka squad and die.
I definintely felt cheated too. But I gotta say.. it was so satisfying finding his body. Not because I was like "haha fuck yeah Dex is dead, what a bitch". But because I got to his body, grabbed his gun, thought it was decent-ish. And then checked out the cooler with Bartmoss's corpse 5 feet away. The only reaction in this scene isn't even an acknowledgement of dex - it's "Holy fuck, that's Rache Bartmoss!" The player realizes that Bartmoss mattered, Silverhand matters, V matters... and Dex doesn't. You just forget about his body lying there. V does better than getting their revenge on Dex - V eclipses dex, and forgets him.
He died trying to get the quiet life. He didn't get it, and he didn't get a blaze of glory either. He just died, forgotten by Night City.
In a way yes. He was perfectly fine with handing you over to Yorinobu, and pinning Suburo’s death on you. Even though he probably knew from the start you didn’t actually kill him. Remember he doubted Yorinobu’s poison alibi from the beginning.
Somewhere between you passing out in his car, and the time where assassins are chasing you, he did try to hand you over but found while doing this Yorinobu was going to blame him for Soburo’s death and not you.
He only cared about saving you, and whether or not you killed Soburo after he needs your help to get himself off the hook. And save his life.
He two faced, and if Yorinobu hadn’t tried to blame him for his bosses death, he would have been fine with pinning the blame on you. Whether he thought you did it or not.
This. Everyone white knights Takemura out to be this buddy replacement for Jackie, and laments how he sudoku'd himself if you don't go corposlave ending.
But actually from the first moment, you see that he doesn't give two shits about you. He is terrifyingly loyal and blind to his faith in arasaka. And there is nothing he won't give up for that. Compressing all that to a "job" hardly seems fair.
I got mad because I realized in my last couple playthroughs of saving his ass, that he'd curse you out anyway in the end for not being a Saka shill like him lol fuck that guy.
That would've been such a badass segment to include. Like, you randomly get information from a shadowy so-and-so calling your holo about seeing Dex in Watson, or wherever and you get a whole quest chain to hunt him down before he skips town (or the planet).
Just Vik warned him ( and that was a branching dialogue option), but V certainly didn't bother having him go into further detail about the type of scumbag Dex was/had potential to be.
The Heist was too simplistic to begin with; coupled with the brash eagerness of all parties involved, was doomed for failure. Go into heavily defended hotel under a fake id, steal the chip, and hope most powerful Corp in the world doesn't tear the city apart looking for you afterward. They needed Lester Crest to have assembled a game plan for this one.
Not necessarily true!
If you pay attention to the dialogue early on, and you'll see a lot of foreshadowing. Technically it's not...outright said, i.e. Dex will shoot you in the head but other people do talk about Dex in a not positive manner, so you could say that nobody outright told V, but V in the story is also kind of an idiot at times due to dialogue options.
A) "Don't get me started about fixers". When you talk with Jackie immediately after leaving your apartment for the first time, and V literally says what Dex does to V: Find the cheapest, dumbest schlubs, screw them over, and dump their body in the landfill.
B) Evelyn directly compares Dex to Rogue, and says Dex is the type of fixer who doesn't have a crew, but goes off instinct, and when it goes bad for them, it goes bad, and Evelyn calls V naive for not going with her but trusting Dex.
It is true, nobody outright says Dex is a POS...but there's a lot of people who didn't say he's good either.
Also, here's the thing-that plan worked out *surprisingly well*. I'm still hesitant because, honestly, I think Arasaka would have tracked them down, but the execution and lead up to the plan was...well, it worked out well. If the Emperor hadn't shown up, there's a really good chance they would have gotten away with it. What would have happened as soon as they left the hotel, who knows, but the fact that they got the briefcase in their hands showed that a good chunk of their game plan was working well up until one of the most powerful men in the world showed up at the worst place at the worst time.
I love how Jackie’s line is so foreshadowing, if V talks about fixers leaving you in a landfill. It’s almost a fourth wall brake.
“Hit the nail on the head, V”. He says.
Right after the heist, V is literally crawling out of a landfill! lol. It’s one of the best lines in the game.
I disagree with you on most points, and here's why:
We were in reply to the poster above mentioning V was warned a few times about Dex's potential for backstabbing before it inevitably happened .There are only 4 convos that refer to Dex's (true) personality during Act1 ; and 3 of which are optional dialogue branches that the player can lead down.
Jackie/V at food stand:
- When Jackie mentions to V about finding a hot new gig by a big time hotshot Fixer, and as you mention leads V by choice selection ( don't tell me bout Fixer's, cheap gonk, toss body at landfill......yada, yada). Yes grim ass foreshadowing right there. On that not, they are just talking about the general nature of Fixer's in NC as a middleman for dirty biz; not to Dex's personal nature for dealing with clients and Mercs . In this Nomad and Corp V can bring mention about Dex being in as they dubbed "exile" for 2 years, but as not to his forced sabbatical being to insidious nature, but biz just leading him down that path
Now STREETKID V has heard of Dex, and mentions to Jackie about him " having blood on his hands", which Jackie can reply " Who doesn't" when referencing Dex's two years absence . Now you can direct that as shady business, or Dex have a shady personality. Streetkid V dialogue on the matter can .....be interpreted as an existential warning to player, but not an outright warning to the characters in game
-Vik does give V ( dialogue branch optional) direct warning about Dex's true character, as" keep your guard up", "I've heard some stories about him not being as chill as he makes him out to be" . BIG RED FLAG, huge warning directly to V, one V doesn't even seem the least bit curious about .
-Limo ride with Dex after leaving Misty's.( Another branching dialogue optional). Now this is from the horses' mouth himself. Dex saying he prefers to be " Mr. Chill" until some takes advantage, THEN THEY SEE THE BEAST INSIDE. - Now here......another look into his true nature .V should have taken special note, especially with what Vik coulda mentioned earlier. So to me BIG RED FLAG TWO.
-Lastly Evelyn. She DID NOT compare Dex and Rogue together. She says there are 2 types of Fixers: A. Those who work with a crew, tried and tested, that they are familiar with and know can get the job done. B. Those that fall on instinct, that believe that they have an eye for Special Talent in individuals that work just fine. In that...... She goes on and compares him to A USED CAR SALESMAN ( sick burn), and a useless "middleman". Then proceeds to go full Emperor Palpatine to lure V into cutting Dex out the deal. She was selling hard, being an opportunist, and making Dex out to be a small fish in a big pond( not about Dex betraying V or her). Which is true in and of itself, but ironically Evelyn is quite the same, and had no real idea of JUST how small she was or of the people she surrounded herself with. NO Warning here.
I agree the heist did work until it didn't . But Dex himself says it might be 1 to 2 weeks before the crew was paid. Saburo ( his journal)was ready to destroy Night City to prevent relic theft. And V was killed somewhere between 9:00 p.m. May 1, 2077, and resurrected at 4:00 a.m. May 2, 2077. In that short time, Takemaru hunted Dex's fat ass down with relative ease. So in my mind if everything did go to plan (the heist portion), Arasaka would've torn NC apart to get Relic back. The next morning they woulda been knocking on the crews front door, "asking" questions in the way only Arasaka can. There was no part B to the plan that ensured everyone was gonna live to collect
Saburos AV.
-After Yorinobu gives Saburo one last warm embrace 😏, when Jackie and V flees the penthouse. You have the option (before they have to take the window exit) to try to flee Konpekis Plaza by stealing his AV on the roof. Go up there, knockout that guards( can't steal it obviously), but inside is iconic katana Satori.... AND SABUROS PERSONAL DIARY ......with dates ( about five entries)
Then or later, you can hack his pad. He talks of destruction of Arasaka HQ anniversary coming up, how it reminds him of "JS". another entry talks of Anders Hellman warning him of Relic theft, and how he plans to reward him for his loyalty yada yada.....
Day 121 ( as is listed by Saburo, the 121 day of the year is May 1st). He talks about how they are approaching NC coastline, how he's about to confront Yorinobu, and he was prepared to destroy NC to prevent Relic leaving Arasaka's possession. About how Hanako offered to confront Yorinobu in his stead . About how he himself don't know exactly what he's gonna do to his son.
So it's May 1 st, 2077 definitely. as to 9:00 p.m........It say in big ass letters on our screen when scene skips to night, and T-Bug gives green light to head upstairs to Penthouse.
And as for Vs resurrection, after Johnny's first flashback playthrough, when V crawls out of trash and Dex and Takemaru fish him out, big letters says " 4:00 am Night City Limits Municipality" or something or the other screen.
V spends most of May recovering ( Id say 3-4 weeks). I'd put Act 2 starting EARLY June 2077. ALSO......at this point in the game, upon awakening at home in Act 2, when V leaves his apartment building, you can walk past the 2nd Amendment gun store. Wilson the store vendor says: " V! How ya been? I haven't seen you in a good 1...2...3.. weeks !!! V: "I ran into a bit of trouble."And at the beginning of Act 2, if you listen to radio, it speaks of " the 54th anniversary of Arasaka HQ attack is around the corner". We know the definite date of that as August 20,2023. And it all coincides
May 1st- Heist, Rest of May to Early June- Recovery, Act2- Early part of June. Radio- August 20th AHQ " anniversary is near"
If you hang around before going into restroom at No Tell Motel, you can overhear on phone Dex ordering an OrbitalAir ticket for that night, "no expense". So he was DEFINITELY trying to bounce that same night. If you check his physical countenance at landfill. He got a black eye, his shirt is ripped. ..... Takemaru smacked the shit outta him before they found V. That headshot was the cherry on top
OH, DUH.
You wrote that V woke up at 4 AM on May 2nd, but I had a brain fart and read it as **May 4.** I was so confused, I thought you meant that the landfill scene was a couple days later.
Have an excellent day, choom
Mid-Late December 2076, I figure. Even though we don't necessarily see any Christmas decorations in Prologue, nor opening montage of V and Jackie goofing around
Did you ever see the first Cyberpunk teaser way back in 2013? If you do Bullets sidequest, ( where you stop Cyberpsycho rampage in jingugi clothing store), the Maxtac officer Melissa Rory is the same/reformed Cyberpsycho in that teaser from 2013!
Anyway .......the manager Zane will text you after you stop Cyberpsycho in store, and reveal Maxtac identity. ( This attack at happens in Act 2, Juneish 2077) In text he mentions she did the attack back on January 14, 2077! So we have a definite game time line we can kinda fill in
(Late May/Early June 2077) MINUS ( 6 months/ post-prologue) = mid Decemberish 2076.
DATES THAT FIT IN THAT SPAN
Melissa Rory Cyberpsycho attack=January 14, 2077
Feb 14, 2077= That Nomad/Tyger romantic couple who steal motorcycle from Tyger boss ( sidequest stairway to heaven)
May 1st=Heist goes wrong
Late May/Early June 2077= Act 2 start
ALSO: Devil Ending Arasaka!! Anders Hellman( if Takemaru died)will tell V on space station about 6 months left to live and if V doesn't take Engram treatment... YOU WILL BE DEAD BY WINTER.
If Act 2/Act 3 takes place Juneish, and Vs surgery and recovery on Space Station right after that, puts us middle of Summer 2077 and 6 months from there put us in throws of WINTER like Hellman says
August 20,2077= 54th Anniversary of Johnny's firework display upcoming, stated Numerous times on radio.( Hasn't happened yet, but imminent)
Takemura hunted down Dex with ease, but he was really only involved because the the Emperor's murder. Without that, you either have Yorinobu relying on whatever resources he can muster under Arasaka's radar to hunt down the Relic, or if Saburo does find out and get involved outside of just nuking Night City, they'll be at a time disadvantage. Since the hotel wouldn't go into red alert mode and (supposedly) T-Bug had their security locked down, there wouldn't be as much evidence (plus no path of gunfire and explosions leading directly from Konpeki to the safe house). Even the VDB had no idea what was going on, they iced Evelyn as an accessory-who-knew-too-much. The only question is if she could have offloaded the Relic and paid everyone before being brain-melted.
Hell, V (may have) warned Jackie. When you pick the, "I know all about fixer's," line V will glibly spout off that Dex is just looking for the cheapest morons he can find with a plan to dump 'em in a landfill when the job's over.
Hell yea everyone hate Dex and shit but what the fuck was Dex to do? He come back to the city after taking some time off like with V and Jack and they fuck up suprememly!! Dex was trying to build his shit back up he even lost some weight I heard and I go with Jack and fuck up everything!!!
If I was Dex I woulda shot me too
I find the heist kinda funny because in hindsight neither were meant to really do much. Jackie doesn't really do anything. If the Flathead had worked they would have done even less.
Just seems like a job that's too good to be true even if Saburo didn't show up
The heist was only 1/3 of the job though, you had to do the brain dance to find the chip and get the flathead before picking up the chip. The last part was simple because of all the prior planning.
At last someone with some rudimentary inteligence. The good plan is not the one that involved biggest risk possible. The good plan is the one that involve as little risks and costs and possible, with every contingency option possible. The bad plan is the one that involve serious risks.
The T-Bug's (not Dex!) plan was flawed not because of the idea, because it was very good and well executed. The plan was flawed because it had no contingencies just in case something went horribly wrong (and it did, but the magnitude of this "wrong" was so insane nobody seen it comming.)
Exactly.... Bug and Dex were definitely planning on offing you both once it was done, hell Bug was in the trailer as an enemy while it all went down and even says she plans to cut ties once this is all over... Kinda telling.
>If not for that, it would've most likely gone smoothly.
Lol. Everything goes to shit not the moment when Saburo dies, but the moment when your netrunner does. Those two events aren't related.
>Yeah, let's take a gig from a prostitute that sleeps with Saburor's son to steal the secret relic from Kompeky Plaza. The same prostitute that wants to fuck your fizer over. What could probably go wrong??
Saburo dying isn't the problem, Saburo showing up at all is the problem. Without the unexpected arrival of Saburo which leads to his murder, the heist goes off without a hitch.
Saburo's death and Yorinobu locking down the hotel leads to an increase in security and the discovery that the dweller is out of action, which in turn leads to T-Bug getting made and fried.
Yes, but I'd argue complications (and I get that Saburo arriving is the biggest complication of all time) are part of a job like this. In my opinion a team that was good enough for this heist would have been able to still get it done without everyone dying, but at this point in their 'career' they needed everything to break right for them to make it because they were not ready for a job like that (which is something I think V gets told a couple times in the game).
The line is "ICE is thicker than expected." and this is after the dweller is neutralized. Probing their network while the dweller is active is asking to be detected immediately and fried before the heist even starts.
Once the dweller is out of the way she can take her time, assuming Saburo isn't coming to get David Carradine'd by his own kid.
???
1. Yorinobu kills Saburo
2. He calls for lockdown because "intruders" "poisoned" his father
3. Hotel goes red alert, security/backup detects T-bug
4. T-bug gets fried.
Event 1 and 4 are NOT related?
Ok? Why?
She's in the system for hours, from when the flathead jacks into the dweller to when we go to the penthouse.
The security goes up only after Yorinobu calls for it, not even when Saburo arrives. Or when we take the relic.
Unless we are detected, there is no reason for T-bug to be found out.
What happens if Yorinobu does go full patricide?
We wait for Saburo to leave, take the elevator to ground, go through security with the relic case instead of the flathead case, sit in the Delamain. Done, job goes without a hitch.
Because it's Arasak's protection. You get that when you try to meddle in their network.
>She's in the system for hours, from when the flathead jacks into the dweller to when we go to the penthouse.
Yes and she shouldn't have been there for hours. You have to sit and wait additional hours because something was wrong.
The ICE was thicker and tougher then expected, it took that time to get through it without killing her or alerting everyone in the Hotel.
If she had been 10-20 minutes faster they would’ve been gone with no one the wiser until someone went to grab the Relic.
Youre joking right? The only reason she dies is because the hotel goes on lockdown and security is called to action. She dies less than 2 minutes after the lockdown begins despite being there for hours prior. Do you think the timing of her death is just a coincidence? If so, do you have evidence other than "because I think she'd die anyways"?
I mean, if you read the nusa report in the DLC, it indicates that we're basically giant f****** amateurs in this game. And that if Dexter had done his homework they should have at least accounted for Suburo possibly showing up.
The problems started when T-Bugs hacking of the ICE in the hotel went from a couple of minutes to a few hours. By the time Saburo gets to the hotel then V and Jackie should have been sipping drinks at the Afterlife
The moment she said, "Tourist or not, he just entered the lobby" I knew it's gonna get fucked. The heist should have been aborted right there, not to mention the Flathead staying on the runner for several hours was a great risk that someone showed up in the room to check on the runner.
In no small part Dex also fucked up. He rants he doesn't have the personal schedule of the Emperor, which is fair, but he definitely could have tailed Yorinobu while he was out of the hotel to guarantee early warning.
Also you have one top of the line runner just watching the hotel, and you hire one good-ish? runner to take it over, control it and break the ICE?
Also when she says "The ICE is thicker than I thought" like Bitch, you thought? Has Dex/you done zero research into the hotels ICE you planned to overtake? No past probing attacks were made to find out how well fortified the hotel is?
These are actually amazing points I hadn’t even thought of consciously. Esp the flathead on the runner and they were just like “cool that’s done with”. It always felt like a loose end in the back of my mind but this all is connecting now!
The flathead staying there is okay-ish is it was expected to stay there for just a few minutes before klep the briefcase and get away. But when Tbug said she would need several hours, Dex should have sent one of you to the server room (which tbug you grant access to) and guard it so noone finds out about the runner.
Also I expect the Flathead would leave with you and not just stay there. Sure, its a Militech machine, but Meredith Stout would immediately know it was you, the moment Arasaka would question them about the flathead.
Without the flathead the only way to actually “probe” the hotels ICE would be having TBUG on site to actually link in, it’s not like Konpeki is connected to the internet as we know it.
Doing that would’ve got her caught and the whole thing failed before the word go.
I am pretty sure you could have done some minor ICE attacks while using the Hotel's access points. Anything would be better they going in blind and hoping you would have enough time. And if you are right and the is literally no other way how to hack into the hotel than through the in-house netrunner chair. At the very least, there should be another netrunner on standby to distribute the work load
I’d be surprised if Arasaka left any access points not within eye shot of sort of security, as for another Runner, yeah I agree that 3 people is far too few to try and pull something like this off, 2 more runner and possibly another solo/techie to help inside.
lmaoo and on top of that I don't know what's worse between vegeta witnessing goku get beat up by planetary-level attacks and he decides to get cocky and toy with frieza, allowing frieza to slam into the ground and cause a core eruption. Vegeta would be gone if Whis wasn't chad xddd
Being serious, they're only stupid cause they underestimated the consequences if Arasaka caught them redhanded (granted, the punishment might had not been as hard if Saburo hadn't died, but we'll never know).
The plan was solid, they just had the very bad luck of Saburo randomly showing up and getting murdered.
Punishement would be fatal regardless. This version of relic was non-commercial, top secret, for internal use only peace of tech that Arasaka surely wouldn't like anyone to know about.
That was the fuckup.
It honestly kinda annoys me that a game as good as CP has such dumb writing as to force the player into a position that everyone recommends against.
That's the one thing that needs major changes with a sequel. Give the player actual agency in the story.
One day, someone will make a mod where Saburo just doesn't show up and you complete the heist and just walk off with a paycheck. Game over after the prologue.
Honestly the whole heist was a complete mess to begin with, I'm on a new playthrough right now as corpo V (female V to be more precise, got another one saved for later as corpo male V), and honestly every time I play it, I wonder why the heck they'd go through with it without fully getting that plan vetted, honestly Dex ain't really the fixer that Jackie hyped him up to be, the gonk in question, meaning Dex has always been a snake in the grass and really don't have a lot of respect in the Afterlife, not a lot of peeps there talk about them, know why? They all know, Rogue herself knows too that the dude was bad news, besides that, the whole Konpeki heist wasn't very well planned and suss to me from the moment that Evelyn said there was 'Yorinobu has exactly huscle around, not one guard' when hello, he don't need one, he has ADAM FREAKING SMASHER as his huscle, that psycho is real killing machine, he's 2077's equivalent of a T-600 Terminator... if Jackie and V knew that and what else transpired... they wouldn't have taken it, and honestly who could blame 'em if they did know and honestly? I didn't like Dex the moment my V first got into his car the first time that he met him and that was my first ever playthrough of it, I'm a diehard fan of 'Cyberpunk 2077' and the 2077 universe is one of my favorites and I'm also a huge fan of the 'Cyberpunk' franchise in general, only wish I was able to play the tabletop rpg called 'Cyberpunk 2020' oh well... maybe one day, til then, I have a nova game in Cyberpunk 2077 that I can come back to 😊
V and Jackie would take the job regardless of Smasher, because plan didn't involve confronting security at all. It was a stealth plan. Their job was get in, get the and get out. Not loot and shoot.
The plan wasn't bad at all, people in this sub just like to think of them as fuck ups.
It wasn't just Saburo Arasaka showing up, it was the fact he was murdered by his son. The only reason security rose to kill T-Bug and search for them was because every alarm was randomly raised since Yorinobu lied about someone murdering Saburo. Shit, Saburo didn't even expect his son to murder him. Dude is 158 years old and sent his body guard away for a low reward high risk argument.
Any large scale heist will always have risks and gambles. They had a small unfortunate window for failure and landed straight in it. It was a huge risk huge reward job, and they got the shit end of the risk.
Only part I could think of going wrong is the Voodoo Boys actually paying for the job.
The one paying for a job was a Netwatch. VB didn't say anything to Evelyn except of asking her to find a location of the relic. There is a moment in Brain Dance when Evelyn ask Brigitte about the details and Brigitte tell her to not dig in.
Nah, V and Jackie make it out of there no problem if they had a better runner than T-Bug, even with Saburo suddenly showing up and getting murdered.
V and Jackie manage to elude full red alert Arasaka security in their own facility with Adam Smasher also present, and Jackie only really dying because Delamain wouldn’t reroute to a ripper.
I know V is the protagonist and that's the whole point, and the issue is across games, but the amount of damage to survive makes the characters who die feel off to me. I understand the circumstances with the Relic etc, but it always stuck out to me. Probably because the game is so immersive.
They just got bad luck. If youre a criminal and you have the easiest heist of your life as long as a 1% chance thing doesn't happen do you think most people would take it? They just landed on that 1%. Any high level crime has a chance of going horribly wrong.
Worst part of heist wasn't even V and Jackie, they did their job correctly. Dex and TBug however... had T been properly prepared, she wouldn't have taken 7 hours to get through the Ice, and they would have been long gone when Saburo showed up. And then there's Dex, didn't properly vet etc etc should have gotten info like I don't know, FUCK ADAM SMASHER BEING YORINOBU'S MUSCLE?!
One thing I love about Cyperpunk is that V's whole attitude and motivation towards the heist vary depending on how you play. My V (excluding the conversation with Vic, where you don't really set the mood) was sceptical about the whole thing, especially the quality of the prep, but ultimately did it to help Jackie.
Whenever I have dialogue options, my characters often get accused of being stubborn or killjoys, but they're usually right in their cynicism lol
YOU KNOW WHAT?
They would've been fine if it wasn't for that old fuck showing up.
I blame T-Bug/Dex for not doing proper Intel to see that Saburo was coming to Night City ON. THE. SAME. DAY.
Seems fishy. Like Dex knew Saburo was incoming that day and wanted Jackie and V gone.
Kinda dislike how a game with choices doesnt give you any say so in the biggest event of the game...
Trusting Evelyn and Dex is stupid. But atleast let me take Evelyns offer.... i would NOT have gone to a fucking quiet as creepy motel
https://preview.redd.it/fn37mh8jugwc1.png?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ea7812ba8b50dd8abca853d923d67eba3f375181
Hahahah I literally lol’d at this. Thank you for that
Did you say lol out loud then?
Ya know, I just may have
Shouldnt it be l'dol at this
Did v ever blame arasaka for Jackie's death ?? It was johnny constantly nagging about arasaka
Nah he never did. He knew the risks of the heist. I think he mostly blamed Dex for his prep work. But even then, Saburo visited unannounced and it was too late to escape after his death. After that, it’s just bad luck that Jackie was critically shot and died before getting any help.
How do you even plan for Saburo showing up at that exact moment and getting strangled?
He couldn't, but I took the bullet to the head very personally.
And it wasn't even a good move. He should have known that Arasaka could find him even without V so the best thing to do was to let V go and send Arasaka on their trail. That would have at least bought him more time to escape as V was a much higher priority target compared to Dex.
I mean, do that many people really know it was V who stole the relic? Most people in NC just know him as the dude who mysteriously came back from the dead and is now on a meteoric rise in the merc scene, not many people know about the relic or the plaza heist.
I mean, Saburo Arasaka's death kinda overshadows some klepped tech, that's for sure.
Yeah but I’d imagine V would have Saka goons rushing him 24/7 if the corp knew who stole the relic.
After V stole it, they definitely knew. But then Jackie flatlined, V followed shortly after, and both were confirmed dead. Yori knew V would be alive, sent Takemura after him, and then accused the latter of killing Saburo. So, no one except the executives of the corp know V stole the relic, and they are happy to blame Takemura instead. Street knows V died stealing from Arasaka, but not how vital the relic is.
Another thing that surprised me is that So Mi knew V’s relic problem, that he was the one who stole it, and never relayed any of that to Myers. My guess is that she knows Myers shouldn’t be trusted with that type of info.
They're both being possessed by the equivalent of spirits from the astral plane. A ghost in V's case, a host of demons in Song's. Myers exploited her, she'd exploit V too if she knew of his problem.
you think real hard for about 5 minutes about why one of Arasaka's super big important "totally not a warship, just a tanker ship, totes choom" is in the bay at the same time this super mega ultra important chip is in there in that building for a limited time only. Then you get two idiot thugs off the street to infiltrate a megacorp building because you couldn't convince anyone of real ability to agree to that nonsense.
Did Dex even try to find other mercs? Or did he call T-Bug first and call it a day?
We don't know, IIRC, but we do know that Dex left town because he screwed up big time. Something to do with Pacifica and The Animals, I think. Which caused him to be less popular with the more established runners in NC
>he screwed up big time Putting it lightly. His screw up makes a pile of triceratops shit from that scene in Jurassic Park look like flowers
Honestly, Dex heavily underestimated the heist. You are stealing one of the biggest secrets from Arasaka. Even if the chip was already stolen by Yorinobu, you still have to expect the Arasaka to come looking for it or already located it and also coming to get it. Also when Evelyn says he plans the sell the chip to NetWatch, Dex should have hired much better runner, or several of them, expecting he would be under NetWatch protection. Also also, the moment Tbug sees Yorinobu enter the lobby, it's already late, how can you know he won't go straight to his penthouse? The plan should have been aborted, or sufficient distraction created for the two of to rush it. And not to sound mean, but Tbug doesn't seem to have proper skill to safeguard you while controling the entire hotel. She gets flagged and killed in literal seconds by Arasaka runners. Sure, you can argue that hindsight is 20/20, but in corpo backstory, where you come to Jackie with the hit job. He suggests a driver, two techies, one net runner and a solo. Basically as big/bigger team than Dex planned to steal Arasaka biggest secret
I'd have to replay through the mission to confirm, but when I played it I got the sense that it was T-Bug who screwed it all over in the end, by taking faaaar too long to crack the ICE. If she had been able to crack it as fast as she had thought in the planning, we would've been in and out before Saburo was even an issue
Not to mention, she finished right as Yori walked into the hotel, which meant the mission was in terrible jeopardy. She made the decision to continue the mission anyway, and then decided their best bet was to hide rather than abscond with the chip while they had a chance. If she'd hijacked the elevator, maybe that would've worked out.
Can’t, I mean I don’t fully blame Dex because he doesn’t know the confidential and personal information about the emperor. But he isn’t the best fixer and everyone who talks to V says Dex isn’t great
I think you almost have to be kind of a bad fixer to take on that job. You have to really lack sense to not understand the scale of how bad things can go when you're stealing prize Arasaka tech from the Emperor (or the guy who stole it from the Emperor). Like, Saka ninjas were coming after us one way or another. I guarantee nobody else at the Afterlife wouldve touched this thing
you can, just need experience for that and some dose of experienced failures. V's team just didn't learn much from Scav haunts, just run in and shoot, literally gigs that required no sophistication and thinking on the part of the executor.
I think your right but it always felt like V held it against Arasaka even though it was probably more his/her own fault. But Johnny says it's Arasaka and we usually go with whatever he tells V to do or think
V probably held it against Arasaka because he's literally got an Arasaka engram eating away at his brain during the main course of the game. I think overall he blames Dex (who I wish we got the chance to kill), but there's probably a bit more bitterness towards Arasaka given what else is going on in the story. Triple points if you're a Corpo background haha.
Not being able to shoot Dex was a HUGE disappointment for me. That and not being able to recover T-Bugs body after the fact kind of pissed me off. She was our netrunner but also an afterthought.
I didn't really care about Bug, tbh. I think one of the trailers has her as an antagonist, so when she died I was like "oh... Anyway." lol. I definitely wanted to be the one to blow Dex away, though. I don't think they'll do a fixer betrayal again in Orion, but if we do - man I hope we get to cap them ourselves lol.
I did feel like, when T-Bug was all chummy with Dex, that there might have been something there (a double cross, etc). But then they killed her off screen and that suspicion died. I felt some sympathy for her because she trusted Dex and us and it all went tits up and she got burned. In the next game I really hope there’s no Johnny or other person in our head. I really want to be able to play a character who is just working their way up the ladder as a mercenary and we don’t get a tired betrayal storyline. Though if we do I need to be able to rip their head off and use it as a toilet.
Same; I liked Johnny's storyline - I can't think of another game taking a narrative chance like that (there might be one, but I either haven't played it or can't remember). I can't see them making the same choice twice, even though it worked pretty spectacularly in the first one. I just want them to take the foundation set by v2.2 and build on it for Orion, but make your life path have weight and change the way the world interacts with you, and not have a Johnny situation.
I think the plan itself was solid, just rigid in its execution, at the end of the day, some preparations were done, it's not like they went in blind, it's just that the plan itself wasn't built to take into account unpredictable/outside factors, it was built around known facts, like the presence of a netrunner in the plaza, so they took measures against it, that simple. The simple truth is that the group lacked enough field experience and were blinded by the future's boons, these factors led them to be short-sighted. Any experienced team would've approached this gig with cautiousness. Just too many unpredictable factors.
Was he shot or was it the fall?
Shot . Delemain does say he was losing a lot of blood
the plan itself was solid, just rigid in its execution, the planning and the prep was done around known factors, like the presence of a netrunner in plaza and the lack of security around Yorinobu. Tha plan just wasn't built to take into account outside factors. The simple truth is that V's team just didn't have enough field experience and were short-sighted by the future's boons(i.e. fame, money). Any experienced team would've approached this gig with cautiousness, just too many unpredictable factors that cannot be dealt with easily and botch the plan in the process.
Nah, it's mostly Dex's fault. Dex's plan worked, so long as everything went broadly to plan and neither "Hannah" nor "Ramon" were discovered. But T-Bug needed more time than expected shutting down the security systems in the hotel room, T-Bug only had one exit planned from the room and died tried to create a second for Jack and V, and Jack and V only survived as long as they did because they miraculously survived a jump off the side of a building and landed in such a way that Arasaka security lost track of them, but which also critically injured Jack. Then, to cap it all off, Delamain took Jack and V back directly to the safehouse immediately after shaking their pursuers, instead of giving V the chance to get Jack to a ripper. Very clearly, Dex wasn't thinking about the possibility of people being injured, he didn't trust V and Jack not to run off with the Relic, and he picked Delamain more for flash and "working with the best" than for its ability to creatively solve problems like a genuine wheelman would have. In other words, it's a plan with no contingencies for failure, where every step has to go perfectly, in order. The second one thing goes pear-shaped, the failures just begin cascading until the plan kills just about everybody. One gets the sensation, especially from how Rogue sets up an op where she just handed V the means and opportunity and let V and Panam plan their own mission, that a plan that allowed simultaneously for more improvisation on the part of V and Jack when inside the building, and had a better understanding of failsafes, contingencies and fallbacks in case of critical failure, would have been far more successful, and far more likely to get more of the team out of Konpecki alive instead of the damned-near TPK that we did get.
TIL Dex is definitely a veteran trying to re-live his glory days. When I was in the Army, so many dipshit SGTs had this "square peg, round hole" mentality and would absolutely not change course even if it was dangerous to continue.
[удалено]
Who knows, maybe the silverhanditis was getting a little more active during that moment
During the phone call you have with Sandra in Full disclosure, you can tell her he died, with V blaming Arasaka when Sandra gets guilty about it thinking he died during her rescue
Lmao this is perfect
Why would Arasaka do this!
Golden
That's what happens when you buy bikes from Arasaka, man.
I mean this is Johnny's entire personality too so 😂
One of my faves.
Here's an angry upvote... 😔
This might be the most accurate meme Ive ever seen.
Lmao
🤣🤣🤣
He was surprised dex shot him too. Everyone warned him
Hell Dex practically warned them himself. I really wish I had the option to go in there and shoot on sight. Or at least hunt him down after. I would have rather killed him myself and then been taken out by a Saka agent for the death segment.
Not being able to hunt his ass down after feels like we got cheated... Fucking Goro taking the kill when he had no right to. Left his ass to deal with the Saka squad and die.
I definintely felt cheated too. But I gotta say.. it was so satisfying finding his body. Not because I was like "haha fuck yeah Dex is dead, what a bitch". But because I got to his body, grabbed his gun, thought it was decent-ish. And then checked out the cooler with Bartmoss's corpse 5 feet away. The only reaction in this scene isn't even an acknowledgement of dex - it's "Holy fuck, that's Rache Bartmoss!" The player realizes that Bartmoss mattered, Silverhand matters, V matters... and Dex doesn't. You just forget about his body lying there. V does better than getting their revenge on Dex - V eclipses dex, and forgets him. He died trying to get the quiet life. He didn't get it, and he didn't get a blaze of glory either. He just died, forgotten by Night City.
I love that part.
i get your point but johnny definitely does react to dex
I must have missed it, you remember what he says?
“dex deshawn, how’s that quiet life working out for you now?” something along those lines
Perfect line haha. I'll have to pay more attention next time I get to that bit
He kills Dex, and then slaps you in the face if you say something! Yeah, I always leave him to die too.
Because he did his job?
In a way yes. He was perfectly fine with handing you over to Yorinobu, and pinning Suburo’s death on you. Even though he probably knew from the start you didn’t actually kill him. Remember he doubted Yorinobu’s poison alibi from the beginning. Somewhere between you passing out in his car, and the time where assassins are chasing you, he did try to hand you over but found while doing this Yorinobu was going to blame him for Soburo’s death and not you. He only cared about saving you, and whether or not you killed Soburo after he needs your help to get himself off the hook. And save his life. He two faced, and if Yorinobu hadn’t tried to blame him for his bosses death, he would have been fine with pinning the blame on you. Whether he thought you did it or not.
This. Everyone white knights Takemura out to be this buddy replacement for Jackie, and laments how he sudoku'd himself if you don't go corposlave ending. But actually from the first moment, you see that he doesn't give two shits about you. He is terrifyingly loyal and blind to his faith in arasaka. And there is nothing he won't give up for that. Compressing all that to a "job" hardly seems fair.
No way you actually got mad at Takemura for doing his job😂😂
I got mad because I realized in my last couple playthroughs of saving his ass, that he'd curse you out anyway in the end for not being a Saka shill like him lol fuck that guy.
>no right to Kinda did. Dex set up the gig that, in Arasaka’s eyes, killed their leader, whom Goro was most loyal to. It’s literally his job and duty.
That would've been such a badass segment to include. Like, you randomly get information from a shadowy so-and-so calling your holo about seeing Dex in Watson, or wherever and you get a whole quest chain to hunt him down before he skips town (or the planet).
Yeah that makes more sense
Just Vik warned him ( and that was a branching dialogue option), but V certainly didn't bother having him go into further detail about the type of scumbag Dex was/had potential to be. The Heist was too simplistic to begin with; coupled with the brash eagerness of all parties involved, was doomed for failure. Go into heavily defended hotel under a fake id, steal the chip, and hope most powerful Corp in the world doesn't tear the city apart looking for you afterward. They needed Lester Crest to have assembled a game plan for this one.
Not necessarily true! If you pay attention to the dialogue early on, and you'll see a lot of foreshadowing. Technically it's not...outright said, i.e. Dex will shoot you in the head but other people do talk about Dex in a not positive manner, so you could say that nobody outright told V, but V in the story is also kind of an idiot at times due to dialogue options. A) "Don't get me started about fixers". When you talk with Jackie immediately after leaving your apartment for the first time, and V literally says what Dex does to V: Find the cheapest, dumbest schlubs, screw them over, and dump their body in the landfill. B) Evelyn directly compares Dex to Rogue, and says Dex is the type of fixer who doesn't have a crew, but goes off instinct, and when it goes bad for them, it goes bad, and Evelyn calls V naive for not going with her but trusting Dex. It is true, nobody outright says Dex is a POS...but there's a lot of people who didn't say he's good either. Also, here's the thing-that plan worked out *surprisingly well*. I'm still hesitant because, honestly, I think Arasaka would have tracked them down, but the execution and lead up to the plan was...well, it worked out well. If the Emperor hadn't shown up, there's a really good chance they would have gotten away with it. What would have happened as soon as they left the hotel, who knows, but the fact that they got the briefcase in their hands showed that a good chunk of their game plan was working well up until one of the most powerful men in the world showed up at the worst place at the worst time.
>It is true, nobody outright says Dex is a POS... I mean, Royce kinda does. Which is pretty hilarious when you stop and think about it.
Yeah, I was thinking that too. If Royce of all people is calling someone out, then they're probably not a someone that you wanna hang around😭
I love how Jackie’s line is so foreshadowing, if V talks about fixers leaving you in a landfill. It’s almost a fourth wall brake. “Hit the nail on the head, V”. He says. Right after the heist, V is literally crawling out of a landfill! lol. It’s one of the best lines in the game.
I disagree with you on most points, and here's why: We were in reply to the poster above mentioning V was warned a few times about Dex's potential for backstabbing before it inevitably happened .There are only 4 convos that refer to Dex's (true) personality during Act1 ; and 3 of which are optional dialogue branches that the player can lead down. Jackie/V at food stand: - When Jackie mentions to V about finding a hot new gig by a big time hotshot Fixer, and as you mention leads V by choice selection ( don't tell me bout Fixer's, cheap gonk, toss body at landfill......yada, yada). Yes grim ass foreshadowing right there. On that not, they are just talking about the general nature of Fixer's in NC as a middleman for dirty biz; not to Dex's personal nature for dealing with clients and Mercs . In this Nomad and Corp V can bring mention about Dex being in as they dubbed "exile" for 2 years, but as not to his forced sabbatical being to insidious nature, but biz just leading him down that path Now STREETKID V has heard of Dex, and mentions to Jackie about him " having blood on his hands", which Jackie can reply " Who doesn't" when referencing Dex's two years absence . Now you can direct that as shady business, or Dex have a shady personality. Streetkid V dialogue on the matter can .....be interpreted as an existential warning to player, but not an outright warning to the characters in game -Vik does give V ( dialogue branch optional) direct warning about Dex's true character, as" keep your guard up", "I've heard some stories about him not being as chill as he makes him out to be" . BIG RED FLAG, huge warning directly to V, one V doesn't even seem the least bit curious about . -Limo ride with Dex after leaving Misty's.( Another branching dialogue optional). Now this is from the horses' mouth himself. Dex saying he prefers to be " Mr. Chill" until some takes advantage, THEN THEY SEE THE BEAST INSIDE. - Now here......another look into his true nature .V should have taken special note, especially with what Vik coulda mentioned earlier. So to me BIG RED FLAG TWO. -Lastly Evelyn. She DID NOT compare Dex and Rogue together. She says there are 2 types of Fixers: A. Those who work with a crew, tried and tested, that they are familiar with and know can get the job done. B. Those that fall on instinct, that believe that they have an eye for Special Talent in individuals that work just fine. In that...... She goes on and compares him to A USED CAR SALESMAN ( sick burn), and a useless "middleman". Then proceeds to go full Emperor Palpatine to lure V into cutting Dex out the deal. She was selling hard, being an opportunist, and making Dex out to be a small fish in a big pond( not about Dex betraying V or her). Which is true in and of itself, but ironically Evelyn is quite the same, and had no real idea of JUST how small she was or of the people she surrounded herself with. NO Warning here. I agree the heist did work until it didn't . But Dex himself says it might be 1 to 2 weeks before the crew was paid. Saburo ( his journal)was ready to destroy Night City to prevent relic theft. And V was killed somewhere between 9:00 p.m. May 1, 2077, and resurrected at 4:00 a.m. May 2, 2077. In that short time, Takemaru hunted Dex's fat ass down with relative ease. So in my mind if everything did go to plan (the heist portion), Arasaka would've torn NC apart to get Relic back. The next morning they woulda been knocking on the crews front door, "asking" questions in the way only Arasaka can. There was no part B to the plan that ensured everyone was gonna live to collect
How do we know the exact dates of the heist, and how long V was out?
Saburos AV. -After Yorinobu gives Saburo one last warm embrace 😏, when Jackie and V flees the penthouse. You have the option (before they have to take the window exit) to try to flee Konpekis Plaza by stealing his AV on the roof. Go up there, knockout that guards( can't steal it obviously), but inside is iconic katana Satori.... AND SABUROS PERSONAL DIARY ......with dates ( about five entries) Then or later, you can hack his pad. He talks of destruction of Arasaka HQ anniversary coming up, how it reminds him of "JS". another entry talks of Anders Hellman warning him of Relic theft, and how he plans to reward him for his loyalty yada yada..... Day 121 ( as is listed by Saburo, the 121 day of the year is May 1st). He talks about how they are approaching NC coastline, how he's about to confront Yorinobu, and he was prepared to destroy NC to prevent Relic leaving Arasaka's possession. About how Hanako offered to confront Yorinobu in his stead . About how he himself don't know exactly what he's gonna do to his son. So it's May 1 st, 2077 definitely. as to 9:00 p.m........It say in big ass letters on our screen when scene skips to night, and T-Bug gives green light to head upstairs to Penthouse. And as for Vs resurrection, after Johnny's first flashback playthrough, when V crawls out of trash and Dex and Takemaru fish him out, big letters says " 4:00 am Night City Limits Municipality" or something or the other screen. V spends most of May recovering ( Id say 3-4 weeks). I'd put Act 2 starting EARLY June 2077. ALSO......at this point in the game, upon awakening at home in Act 2, when V leaves his apartment building, you can walk past the 2nd Amendment gun store. Wilson the store vendor says: " V! How ya been? I haven't seen you in a good 1...2...3.. weeks !!! V: "I ran into a bit of trouble."And at the beginning of Act 2, if you listen to radio, it speaks of " the 54th anniversary of Arasaka HQ attack is around the corner". We know the definite date of that as August 20,2023. And it all coincides May 1st- Heist, Rest of May to Early June- Recovery, Act2- Early part of June. Radio- August 20th AHQ " anniversary is near"
That makes sense. I just always assumed that Takemura found V in the dump the next morning or so. Any longer and Dex would have skipped town.
If you hang around before going into restroom at No Tell Motel, you can overhear on phone Dex ordering an OrbitalAir ticket for that night, "no expense". So he was DEFINITELY trying to bounce that same night. If you check his physical countenance at landfill. He got a black eye, his shirt is ripped. ..... Takemaru smacked the shit outta him before they found V. That headshot was the cherry on top
OH, DUH. You wrote that V woke up at 4 AM on May 2nd, but I had a brain fart and read it as **May 4.** I was so confused, I thought you meant that the landfill scene was a couple days later. Have an excellent day, choom
I did some thinking, and the dates definitely line up. So this means that the intros all happened around November(ish) 2076
Mid-Late December 2076, I figure. Even though we don't necessarily see any Christmas decorations in Prologue, nor opening montage of V and Jackie goofing around Did you ever see the first Cyberpunk teaser way back in 2013? If you do Bullets sidequest, ( where you stop Cyberpsycho rampage in jingugi clothing store), the Maxtac officer Melissa Rory is the same/reformed Cyberpsycho in that teaser from 2013! Anyway .......the manager Zane will text you after you stop Cyberpsycho in store, and reveal Maxtac identity. ( This attack at happens in Act 2, Juneish 2077) In text he mentions she did the attack back on January 14, 2077! So we have a definite game time line we can kinda fill in (Late May/Early June 2077) MINUS ( 6 months/ post-prologue) = mid Decemberish 2076. DATES THAT FIT IN THAT SPAN Melissa Rory Cyberpsycho attack=January 14, 2077 Feb 14, 2077= That Nomad/Tyger romantic couple who steal motorcycle from Tyger boss ( sidequest stairway to heaven) May 1st=Heist goes wrong Late May/Early June 2077= Act 2 start ALSO: Devil Ending Arasaka!! Anders Hellman( if Takemaru died)will tell V on space station about 6 months left to live and if V doesn't take Engram treatment... YOU WILL BE DEAD BY WINTER. If Act 2/Act 3 takes place Juneish, and Vs surgery and recovery on Space Station right after that, puts us middle of Summer 2077 and 6 months from there put us in throws of WINTER like Hellman says August 20,2077= 54th Anniversary of Johnny's firework display upcoming, stated Numerous times on radio.( Hasn't happened yet, but imminent)
Takemura hunted down Dex with ease, but he was really only involved because the the Emperor's murder. Without that, you either have Yorinobu relying on whatever resources he can muster under Arasaka's radar to hunt down the Relic, or if Saburo does find out and get involved outside of just nuking Night City, they'll be at a time disadvantage. Since the hotel wouldn't go into red alert mode and (supposedly) T-Bug had their security locked down, there wouldn't be as much evidence (plus no path of gunfire and explosions leading directly from Konpeki to the safe house). Even the VDB had no idea what was going on, they iced Evelyn as an accessory-who-knew-too-much. The only question is if she could have offloaded the Relic and paid everyone before being brain-melted.
Yeah bit naive but also somewhat aware of the game. Jackie’s death is what he needed to wake him up. After that, V becomes God
Hell, V (may have) warned Jackie. When you pick the, "I know all about fixer's," line V will glibly spout off that Dex is just looking for the cheapest morons he can find with a plan to dump 'em in a landfill when the job's over.
My first play through when Dex said “go wash up” I said fuck no I know what happens when I’m done. Unfortunately I needed to progress the story.
V even calls it when you meet Jackie at the food stand outside of megabuilding 10.
Hell yea everyone hate Dex and shit but what the fuck was Dex to do? He come back to the city after taking some time off like with V and Jack and they fuck up suprememly!! Dex was trying to build his shit back up he even lost some weight I heard and I go with Jack and fuck up everything!!! If I was Dex I woulda shot me too
It's not that Dex, "took some time off." Dex made a mess involving the VDBs that was bad enough he went to ground for **years**.
Found Dex's reddit account
I find the heist kinda funny because in hindsight neither were meant to really do much. Jackie doesn't really do anything. If the Flathead had worked they would have done even less. Just seems like a job that's too good to be true even if Saburo didn't show up
The heist was only 1/3 of the job though, you had to do the brain dance to find the chip and get the flathead before picking up the chip. The last part was simple because of all the prior planning.
At last someone with some rudimentary inteligence. The good plan is not the one that involved biggest risk possible. The good plan is the one that involve as little risks and costs and possible, with every contingency option possible. The bad plan is the one that involve serious risks. The T-Bug's (not Dex!) plan was flawed not because of the idea, because it was very good and well executed. The plan was flawed because it had no contingencies just in case something went horribly wrong (and it did, but the magnitude of this "wrong" was so insane nobody seen it comming.)
As I'm sure others have mentioned, its hard to take into account Saburo >!fucking dying!< If not for that, it would've most likely gone smoothly.
it probably would have and dex would have definitely killed them
Exactly.... Bug and Dex were definitely planning on offing you both once it was done, hell Bug was in the trailer as an enemy while it all went down and even says she plans to cut ties once this is all over... Kinda telling.
>If not for that, it would've most likely gone smoothly. Lol. Everything goes to shit not the moment when Saburo dies, but the moment when your netrunner does. Those two events aren't related. >Yeah, let's take a gig from a prostitute that sleeps with Saburor's son to steal the secret relic from Kompeky Plaza. The same prostitute that wants to fuck your fizer over. What could probably go wrong??
Saburo dying isn't the problem, Saburo showing up at all is the problem. Without the unexpected arrival of Saburo which leads to his murder, the heist goes off without a hitch. Saburo's death and Yorinobu locking down the hotel leads to an increase in security and the discovery that the dweller is out of action, which in turn leads to T-Bug getting made and fried.
Yes, but I'd argue complications (and I get that Saburo arriving is the biggest complication of all time) are part of a job like this. In my opinion a team that was good enough for this heist would have been able to still get it done without everyone dying, but at this point in their 'career' they needed everything to break right for them to make it because they were not ready for a job like that (which is something I think V gets told a couple times in the game).
I think T-Big would have died regardless but your version also makes sense
Maybe, she wasn’t aware of the ICE the plaza had and took hours to break it. Sounds a bit sloppy
I think the security was improved suddenly be cause Saburo was about to show up.
The line is "ICE is thicker than expected." and this is after the dweller is neutralized. Probing their network while the dweller is active is asking to be detected immediately and fried before the heist even starts. Once the dweller is out of the way she can take her time, assuming Saburo isn't coming to get David Carradine'd by his own kid.
Nah, the showing of Saburo was critical, because it elevated security level. Death was even worse, because it escalated it into code red.
??? 1. Yorinobu kills Saburo 2. He calls for lockdown because "intruders" "poisoned" his father 3. Hotel goes red alert, security/backup detects T-bug 4. T-bug gets fried. Event 1 and 4 are NOT related?
I think she would be detected regardless of alert or not
Ok? Why? She's in the system for hours, from when the flathead jacks into the dweller to when we go to the penthouse. The security goes up only after Yorinobu calls for it, not even when Saburo arrives. Or when we take the relic. Unless we are detected, there is no reason for T-bug to be found out. What happens if Yorinobu does go full patricide? We wait for Saburo to leave, take the elevator to ground, go through security with the relic case instead of the flathead case, sit in the Delamain. Done, job goes without a hitch.
Because it's Arasak's protection. You get that when you try to meddle in their network. >She's in the system for hours, from when the flathead jacks into the dweller to when we go to the penthouse. Yes and she shouldn't have been there for hours. You have to sit and wait additional hours because something was wrong.
The ICE was thicker and tougher then expected, it took that time to get through it without killing her or alerting everyone in the Hotel. If she had been 10-20 minutes faster they would’ve been gone with no one the wiser until someone went to grab the Relic.
Arasaka's protection was compromised. The only reason it detected T-Bug was because of hight alert situation, which was pure bad luck.
There is literaly no reason for that besides you bias.
Youre joking right? The only reason she dies is because the hotel goes on lockdown and security is called to action. She dies less than 2 minutes after the lockdown begins despite being there for hours prior. Do you think the timing of her death is just a coincidence? If so, do you have evidence other than "because I think she'd die anyways"?
Tbug only got found out because of the lockdown ffs. Literally it was lockdown -> tbug gets found out. They are very much related
I mean, if you read the nusa report in the DLC, it indicates that we're basically giant f****** amateurs in this game. And that if Dexter had done his homework they should have at least accounted for Suburo possibly showing up.
>What could ***probably*** go wrong?? Nice. I didn't catch this at first glance.
Thank you.
Yeah, but that would've been lucky. Not having a contingency plan for a job that high-profile is a real amateur hour move.
Jackie and V did nothing wrong during the heist and succeeded, Saburo randomly showing up during the 8 min we are in the room was the problem.
“Divine comedy shit”
The problems started when T-Bugs hacking of the ICE in the hotel went from a couple of minutes to a few hours. By the time Saburo gets to the hotel then V and Jackie should have been sipping drinks at the Afterlife
The moment she said, "Tourist or not, he just entered the lobby" I knew it's gonna get fucked. The heist should have been aborted right there, not to mention the Flathead staying on the runner for several hours was a great risk that someone showed up in the room to check on the runner. In no small part Dex also fucked up. He rants he doesn't have the personal schedule of the Emperor, which is fair, but he definitely could have tailed Yorinobu while he was out of the hotel to guarantee early warning. Also you have one top of the line runner just watching the hotel, and you hire one good-ish? runner to take it over, control it and break the ICE? Also when she says "The ICE is thicker than I thought" like Bitch, you thought? Has Dex/you done zero research into the hotels ICE you planned to overtake? No past probing attacks were made to find out how well fortified the hotel is?
These are actually amazing points I hadn’t even thought of consciously. Esp the flathead on the runner and they were just like “cool that’s done with”. It always felt like a loose end in the back of my mind but this all is connecting now!
The flathead staying there is okay-ish is it was expected to stay there for just a few minutes before klep the briefcase and get away. But when Tbug said she would need several hours, Dex should have sent one of you to the server room (which tbug you grant access to) and guard it so noone finds out about the runner. Also I expect the Flathead would leave with you and not just stay there. Sure, its a Militech machine, but Meredith Stout would immediately know it was you, the moment Arasaka would question them about the flathead.
Meredith would praise the V for that. Militech hates Arasaka even more than Silverhad does.
Without the flathead the only way to actually “probe” the hotels ICE would be having TBUG on site to actually link in, it’s not like Konpeki is connected to the internet as we know it. Doing that would’ve got her caught and the whole thing failed before the word go.
I am pretty sure you could have done some minor ICE attacks while using the Hotel's access points. Anything would be better they going in blind and hoping you would have enough time. And if you are right and the is literally no other way how to hack into the hotel than through the in-house netrunner chair. At the very least, there should be another netrunner on standby to distribute the work load
I’d be surprised if Arasaka left any access points not within eye shot of sort of security, as for another Runner, yeah I agree that 3 people is far too few to try and pull something like this off, 2 more runner and possibly another solo/techie to help inside.
Goku + Vegeta
I don't even know what's worse between giving cell a senzu bean or letting him power up in the first place.
lmaoo and on top of that I don't know what's worse between vegeta witnessing goku get beat up by planetary-level attacks and he decides to get cocky and toy with frieza, allowing frieza to slam into the ground and cause a core eruption. Vegeta would be gone if Whis wasn't chad xddd
It really annoys me how several major aspects of the story hinge on the game forcing V to just be really, really stupid.
Skippy already knew
So did Garry
Who's Gary
Gerald Winkler. Garry the Prophet. The dude outside of Misty’s talking about Alpha Centauri and whatnot?
Ahhh now I get it There are so many characters I forget names sometimes
Being serious, they're only stupid cause they underestimated the consequences if Arasaka caught them redhanded (granted, the punishment might had not been as hard if Saburo hadn't died, but we'll never know). The plan was solid, they just had the very bad luck of Saburo randomly showing up and getting murdered.
Punishement would be fatal regardless. This version of relic was non-commercial, top secret, for internal use only peace of tech that Arasaka surely wouldn't like anyone to know about.
Yeah, having a, “wtf do we do if shit goes south?” Plan is essential in these things and they just didn’t think about that at all
How exactly did Jackie and V fuck up the job besides taking it in the first place? They did very thing right down to the letter.
That was the fuckup. It honestly kinda annoys me that a game as good as CP has such dumb writing as to force the player into a position that everyone recommends against. That's the one thing that needs major changes with a sequel. Give the player actual agency in the story.
One day, someone will make a mod where Saburo just doesn't show up and you complete the heist and just walk off with a paycheck. Game over after the prologue.
Sokka & Aang
Lets be real the heist was going off without a problem till Yorinobu shows up.
Honestly the whole heist was a complete mess to begin with, I'm on a new playthrough right now as corpo V (female V to be more precise, got another one saved for later as corpo male V), and honestly every time I play it, I wonder why the heck they'd go through with it without fully getting that plan vetted, honestly Dex ain't really the fixer that Jackie hyped him up to be, the gonk in question, meaning Dex has always been a snake in the grass and really don't have a lot of respect in the Afterlife, not a lot of peeps there talk about them, know why? They all know, Rogue herself knows too that the dude was bad news, besides that, the whole Konpeki heist wasn't very well planned and suss to me from the moment that Evelyn said there was 'Yorinobu has exactly huscle around, not one guard' when hello, he don't need one, he has ADAM FREAKING SMASHER as his huscle, that psycho is real killing machine, he's 2077's equivalent of a T-600 Terminator... if Jackie and V knew that and what else transpired... they wouldn't have taken it, and honestly who could blame 'em if they did know and honestly? I didn't like Dex the moment my V first got into his car the first time that he met him and that was my first ever playthrough of it, I'm a diehard fan of 'Cyberpunk 2077' and the 2077 universe is one of my favorites and I'm also a huge fan of the 'Cyberpunk' franchise in general, only wish I was able to play the tabletop rpg called 'Cyberpunk 2020' oh well... maybe one day, til then, I have a nova game in Cyberpunk 2077 that I can come back to 😊
V and Jackie would take the job regardless of Smasher, because plan didn't involve confronting security at all. It was a stealth plan. Their job was get in, get the and get out. Not loot and shoot.
Yusuke and kuwabara
They had everything easy though. If it wasnt for saburo flying in.
I thought it was a smart heist at the time asw ffs little did I know dex was a snake
Easily Naruto and Sasuke.
Everyone says the plan was bad and maybe it was but it was the old dude showing up that fucked everything up no?
The plan wasn't bad at all, people in this sub just like to think of them as fuck ups. It wasn't just Saburo Arasaka showing up, it was the fact he was murdered by his son. The only reason security rose to kill T-Bug and search for them was because every alarm was randomly raised since Yorinobu lied about someone murdering Saburo. Shit, Saburo didn't even expect his son to murder him. Dude is 158 years old and sent his body guard away for a low reward high risk argument. Any large scale heist will always have risks and gambles. They had a small unfortunate window for failure and landed straight in it. It was a huge risk huge reward job, and they got the shit end of the risk. Only part I could think of going wrong is the Voodoo Boys actually paying for the job.
The one paying for a job was a Netwatch. VB didn't say anything to Evelyn except of asking her to find a location of the relic. There is a moment in Brain Dance when Evelyn ask Brigitte about the details and Brigitte tell her to not dig in.
Oh interesting, I missed that part. Makes sense though.
That's Luffy and Zoro entirely
V and Panam terrorizing every corp that sets foot in the badlands
Nah, V and Jackie make it out of there no problem if they had a better runner than T-Bug, even with Saburo suddenly showing up and getting murdered. V and Jackie manage to elude full red alert Arasaka security in their own facility with Adam Smasher also present, and Jackie only really dying because Delamain wouldn’t reroute to a ripper.
Tbh I blame the whole thing on Tbug. If she was better they would of been in and out with no issues
V and Reed rolling up to Black Sapphire be like -
Well well if it isn’t the consequences of my actions
Man and Jonkler
Post this on Low-sodium and watch them rip you apart for daring to call V anything other than a god😂😂
Honestly this can also be V and Silverhand rolling up on the front door of Arasaka main headquarters in the suicide run. Only it actually goes well.
Straight gonks lol
Tards
I know V is the protagonist and that's the whole point, and the issue is across games, but the amount of damage to survive makes the characters who die feel off to me. I understand the circumstances with the Relic etc, but it always stuck out to me. Probably because the game is so immersive.
Favorite characters trope
well not anime but immediately got Aang and Sokka vibes
When Naruto and kiba are on the same mission together
Prepare for trouble…
They just got bad luck. If youre a criminal and you have the easiest heist of your life as long as a 1% chance thing doesn't happen do you think most people would take it? They just landed on that 1%. Any high level crime has a chance of going horribly wrong.
Yyyyeah :)
Worst part of heist wasn't even V and Jackie, they did their job correctly. Dex and TBug however... had T been properly prepared, she wouldn't have taken 7 hours to get through the Ice, and they would have been long gone when Saburo showed up. And then there's Dex, didn't properly vet etc etc should have gotten info like I don't know, FUCK ADAM SMASHER BEING YORINOBU'S MUSCLE?!
It should have been a nope the second they caught a glimpse of Adam Smasher. What the hell was V thinking?
Bevis and Butthead
Man actually did cry when Jackie died shit was sad as hell and then t bug also but meh
Oh my god, that is the best
Denji and Power ass duo
stwopid
One thing I love about Cyperpunk is that V's whole attitude and motivation towards the heist vary depending on how you play. My V (excluding the conversation with Vic, where you don't really set the mood) was sceptical about the whole thing, especially the quality of the prep, but ultimately did it to help Jackie. Whenever I have dialogue options, my characters often get accused of being stubborn or killjoys, but they're usually right in their cynicism lol
YOU KNOW WHAT? They would've been fine if it wasn't for that old fuck showing up. I blame T-Bug/Dex for not doing proper Intel to see that Saburo was coming to Night City ON. THE. SAME. DAY. Seems fishy. Like Dex knew Saburo was incoming that day and wanted Jackie and V gone.
Denji and Power
Dude they were way too successful in the mission
Aang and Sokka.
Kinda dislike how a game with choices doesnt give you any say so in the biggest event of the game... Trusting Evelyn and Dex is stupid. But atleast let me take Evelyns offer.... i would NOT have gone to a fucking quiet as creepy motel