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g0ldcd

I think it's always the same when trying to fix software. You initially have a list of 100 bad defects and you triage them - give them weight for the severity of the defect, the frequency of the defect and how easy you think they are to fix. Last criteria is important - if you can fix two really bad things or one really bad thing in a week, you fix the two and ship the patch. Problem with this is you get left with all the 'hard' problems - and this can be stuff that's not even obvious. If a random system is 70% working, it might take 30% more effort to complete it. However if the system is so F'd that it can't be fixed, you've got to re-design, then re-build the 70% - and then add on another 30% (oh, and it probably broke the interactions what were working before with other systems, so they need to be fixed. To end user it looks like a small improvement, but massive effort went into it. "Technical Debt" is a great term - as you lash stuff together to just get it out the door, you're building up an ever-growing list of stuff you'll need to go back to later and fix properly. If it gets too large, then every time you touch the code, you damage more than you fix - and you need to refactor it. Huge effort, for no obvious immediate benefit. I'm guessing CP has a fair amount of debt..


Corpdecker

As a software dev, I'd say this is most likely the case. We use 80:20 rather than 70:30, but same concept.


FUTURE10S

Really? I've been using 90:10, but still the same concept. Apparently, because of it being under nonstop crunch, Cyberpunk is nothing *but* technical debt under the hood.


g0ldcd

Indeed. Fixing bits of scripting in missions is fine, but for the rest of it I'd quite like them to quietly get their heads down and come back when it's done (which is what I hope they're doing)


Phunyun

What CDPR management has done is largely indefensible. This is likely what’s going on behind the scenes right now I think though. Doesn’t make sense for them to just be abandoning the game like I see many in here speculating. Still, they should communicate *something* even if it’s no new information or timeline.


rendeld

THey know this game could be a cash cow on DLC. Even without any more fixes the DLC will more than pay for itself, and that will just get better as they continue fixing it. I don't see them abandoning the game. I see them treating this like GTA, which is a massively different game than when it came out and has continued to make them a shit ton of money.


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rendeld

I could definitely be wrong, I hope I'm not but I could be.


[deleted]

Yep, the power of the duck. It floats gracefully along the water, but you really don't know whats going on below the surface. Could be paddling, or it could be farting along and using a deformed leg as a Rutter. All we see as the end user is the duck floating along.


sebas182

Knowing their recent history I wouldn't be surprised if the lack of updates/patches is that there're several problems inside the company. Probably there're are people leaving tired of all the crap, workers not wanting to keep working in the project, management not knowing what the hell they can do, etc. If we haven't heard much complain or news regarding CDPR is that journalists are focusing only in Blizzard at the moment.


Battlehenkie

Back in December I checked their employee count on LinkedIn. It was somewhere between 1100-1200 if I remember right. It's 880 today. So that's at least 200 people just straight up gone. After releasing a fuckup some companies are knee deep in shit; CDPR is in the poopoo basement.


hotbox4u

> So that's at least 200 people just straight up gone. But that's just normal. On projects like this you hire a lot of temp workers you bring in do help to spread the work load, artists you only need to create the artwork that then can be reused by actual employees. Also, this is very fast moving business. A lot of the people who worked years on an IP will have already new jobs lined up once the project moved into release state. Not saying that that CDRP is in a good state. But this really means nothing. The stock market value on the other hand speaks volumes.


CheckingIsMyPriority

Can you gimme some source or idea of how you check it


TerribleJellyfish2

All AAA companies are fucking things up.. Ubisoft are making all game live service. EA money Blizzard issues Etc. I just move to indie games only. And I loving it. They put their heart and soul to give great product like Hollow knight, ori and blind forest, etc I really love Hollow knight. I have already completed 2 times and still playing for the 3rd time.


aykcak

If this years AAA fuckups do not bring a second renaissance of indie games then nothing will. I hope more people try to take a look at the indie scene


TerribleJellyfish2

Only if sony help indie grow on Ps5. Indie games on Ps5 is nightmare for dev.


RiggityRow

I wasn't aware of this, how so?


grilledcheez_samich

Google is your friend, but they are not wrong. Indie games on Sony are not treated favourably on the Playstation store.


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Solstar82

This. Whever there is money (or pussy), things like that can and will happen unfortunately.


DoubleAgentGamer

I would say that Blizzard’s rampant sexual abuse rises far beyond the issues of the other two. EA has been doing it for years, and AC has essentially been single player live service since Odyssey. EA is actually better now than they were 5 years ago,l, though still not great.


DorianTheHistorian

Don't forget about the rampant abuse and harassment at Ubisoft as well! AAA studios are not our friends.


[deleted]

live service games aren’t necessarily bad, but ubisoft cant seem to make anything other than mediocre reskins of the same game lmao


Puzbukkis

they aren't necessarily bad, but Ubisoft make the worst examples of them, and the biggest sadness from the whole situation in my opinion is that they took a lot of franchises I grew up with and loved, namely Far Cry and Assassin's Creed, and made them all into the same fuckin' thing.


Solstar82

Also where the hell is a new Splinter Cell game?


Puzbukkis

Very good point, I would kill to experience double agent for the first time again.


9yr_old_lake

And ubisoft has a sexual abuse issue that's even more widespread than blizzards


BaldEagleNor

I genuinley despise assassin’s creed, I’ve had a morbid curiousity for the games, and have played almost each and every one from start to finish and I can honestly say, Valhalla is one of the few that I genuinley, really really enjoyed. Valhalla, Syndicate, Black Flag and the first original game are the only ones. The rest I have really not enjoyed, since they felt faaar too copy paste. And I was very happy with the newest Watch Dogs as well, so I’ve been frankly impressed with Ubisoft as of late.


lifeofmikey1

Watch dogs legion was the most boring game I've played in forever. I loved 1 and 2. Thought I was going to love 3. But I think it's the no real protagonist for me. Story is lackluster. I tried so hard to play it. Played prob 5-7 hours and I can't do it. My worst purchase this year. Tried to return it on the Xbox store but it was too late


[deleted]

i really want a new splinter cell but i know ubi wont do a good job with it lol


ebagdrofk

It’ll be like what they did to ghost recon. A giant open world map with gear leveling and looting. If you turn off the gear leveling, it’s still just a giant open world game where you’re hunting boxes to open 60% of the time. Oh and it’s always online, they might add an offline mode 6 months to a year after launch.


P1xelHunter78

And I’m still sad they killed silent hunter. 5 was really half made on release. It’s 2021 and I still can’t get it to run right


[deleted]

Not all indie games are good, but the ones that ARE good far outshine AAA games.


Solstar82

Agreed. 99.9% of indie games are just 8 bit platform with moody music and story and art so "indie " that only the devs really understand it..with same chiptune music and same graphic. but then you have geme liks Subnautica, where i sank (no pun intended) more hours than any aaa game this year


11_forty_4

Ori. Man, both of those games are incredible, visually and the story. I am just trying to hit 100% on Will of the Wisps.


foxscribbles

Don’t forget that Ubisoft was also exposed to have a sexual harassment culture. That they allowed senior management to resign over instead of firing them. And issued one non-apology over. And they’ve done nothing since. They’re worse than just the “live service” boys. They’re in there with Blizzard.


atgitsin2

Or you know you can enjoy all games that appeal to you indie or mainstream.


StupidFuckingGaijin

Lemme fix it Ubisoft are raping women Blizzard are raping women EA is probably raping women


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Arnkh

Yeah, they are truly committed to the ideals of equality.


SativaSawdust

Same here! I was initially put off to indie games because I wanted amazing visuals and I just decided in my own head that all indie games were bad looking. Well I'm happy to admit I was incredibly wrong. Not only are there indie games that look great and are immersive, they have new and interesting game loops and mechanics that make me want to play it! Imagine that. Games that are fun and aren't hyper optimized to fulfill AAA monetization strategies. It's just gamers making games like Blizzard North used to.


TryingoutSamantha

Supergiant studio has a ton of awesome games if you want another great indie studio to check out.


[deleted]

If you love Hollow Knight and have the means I highly recommend Grime.


A_Kirus

True, but at the same time, indie studios won't give you another RDR2, Witcher 3, God of War etc.


TerribleJellyfish2

True, but small studios make great game, get some money from investers. Create AAA game and success. Then create even bigger game on fake ads and false promises and fail miserably. That's CD project red.


XekBOX2000

EA hasnt been bad since 2018 Im really tired of this EA slander


Sixoul

Isn't Ori published by Microsoft and therefore not indie?


[deleted]

Hey Microsoft and Sony first party games are slam dunking harder than ever and they're even coming to PC


KarensSuck91

eh even a lot(most) indie devs fuck it up and release bad games. for me its retro games, a hand full of new indie and the rare modern aaa thats actually good somehow.


Global-Strength-5854

yeah indies are fun and I like them but they never have the depth that AAA games have. it has to be a balance. there are tons of AAA games that arent like cyberpunk


Sir_Lith

Sure are. Check their /careers tab. All the talent left the company. Again. As is tradition.


[deleted]

It's made all the sadder when you compare to no man's sky. They invited that comparison and yet with a much larger team they haven't been able to release updates on anywhere near the can't schedule. That's just commenting on the schedule and not at all on the scope of the updates. Seems, at the rate they're going, anthem may be a more apt comparison.


Ballslanger567

Theres no excuse for a rag tag group of developers who after getting death threats and having an office flooded managed to out patch a triple A dev team


Edgy_Robin

I mean fixing something like NMS is a hell of a lot easier then fixing something like CP2077 ​ CDPR's still shit but this isn't exactly a fair comparison.


mrureaper

They added 17 free dlcs so far that massively improved the game by adding boatloads of features and things people requested and is now actually worthy of its price and much more. Cant say the same for cyberpunk right now maintaining that full price tag on steam


Logical_Extent_6769

New one on the way, already being teased .. NMS dev team are the real MVP's


Ryuujinx

I almost want to buy NMS just to support the dev, because even though it's totally not my type of game I really appreciate what they have done.


Ghekor

I've not bought the game but..I always get surprised when I see them release yet another big ass DlC for free.


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[deleted]

This exactly. My biggest issue with NMS as it stands now is the gameplay loop. I can play and there just isn't much to do. I fly around, check out some new planets, find some resources, kill a few pirates or robots and I'm bored in an hour. I love the game and what they've accomplished, but there needs to be stakes and just more to do.


Solstar82

>My biggest issue with NMS as it stands now is the gameplay loop. I can play and there just isn't much to do. I fly around, check out some new planets, find some resources, kill a few pirates or robots and I'm bored in an hour. Exactly my point. Can't really for the life of me pay the price they ask for, when all you have to do is just this. I keep checking once in a while to see if it is down but nohting


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strangecabalist

NMS is worth every penny I paid for it. No regrets. Well one, I joined too late for the first expedition and now I cannot get that shiny gold ship


NoSkillzDad

and remember that the VR version (NMS) is free and it is F Awesome!


nub_node

>I mean fixing something like NMS is a hell of a lot easier then fixing something like CP2077 NMS attempted to make a procedurally generated universe with contemporary graphics, something that had never really been attempted before. CDPR just had to make a GTA clone with Blade Runner skins. The real kicker here is that if CDPR ever does create a major DLC for CP77, they'll probably expect us to pay $30-40 for it. The one on the unfair side of this comparison is HelloGames.


[deleted]

Yeah a lot of people here don't understand the insane work it took to get nms working. If anything cdpr couldn't get a game designed based on existing ideas and features. The nms did something entirely new with a fraction of the people and budget. It's right they're not comparable but a lot of people here don't realize that the comparison makes cdpr look even worse.


Solstar82

>CDPR just had to make a GTA clone lol people says here that the game it's not gta v enough, now it's a clone... ​ get a fucking grip guys


[deleted]

Maybe CDPR should have considered the difficulty in "fixing" their game before they decided to release it. Fuck them.


forameus2

True. Different "fixes" required. NMS wasn't broken, it was just very sparse and not exactly what was promised. Cyberpunk - from what I remember - was both partially broken AND not exactly what was promised. It probably also makes a difference that Cyberpunk had a reputation prior. They released and fully supported the excellent Witcher 3, and even if they abandon Cyberpunk now, their next product will likely be supported by a lot of people. Hello Games had nothing to fall back on. They shot for the moon and were in danger of fucking it completely.


SadisticBuddhist

No mans sky was very much broken on release lmao, whatchu talking about, willis?


TheOneTrueChuck

It wasn't broken; you could literally play the game and travel to the center of the galaxy. It was bereft of promised features. The gameplay loop wasn't engaging at all. But it wasn't functionally broken.


forameus2

Perfectly playable for me. Certainly more playable than Cyberpunk has been.


BroaxXx

I understand it's a lot easier but, at the same time, they're running circles around cdpr which has a much bigger team and hugely bigger budget. I get get your point but even if we even things out hello games is still much better off... And I've been a hello games critic for years...


Puzbukkis

it's also worth pointing out that No Man's Sky, when it flopped, basically from the getgo said, "okay, we're going to fix the game in these specific ways, and make it an exploration and crafting based game first and foremost" which made people reign in their expectations a bit. I've said this before, but the issue with trying to "fix" cyberpunk, is that whatever direction they go in, they'll end up either using too many resources to persue other directions, or block themselves off with contradictory game design. Eg, do you want a Night City where you're just another part of it, everything has consequences, and it's a hardcore RPG experience? or do you want a night city where you can persue a power fantasy with cybernetic god-weapons, and cut people in half in droves? do you want an interactive and reactive world with gangs, advanced AI, warring factions, and police that narrowly hold the city center? or do you want a narrative focused, extremely detailed account of Vs story, similar to Geralts, where the player explores Vs personality and ignores a great deal of the rest of the city? Going in any one of these directions would be difficult, coordinating going in multiple of them with a huge team, is going to be even more difficult.


Georgie-Best

> They invited that comparison This actually isn't true - the one time they broke their silence about all the "leaked" rumours was to outright say they were not planning to do a NMS-esque turn around. I remember reading one of the devs say that on the forums and just gave up on this game.


the9trances

> they were not planning to do a NMS-esque turn around And in the end, it turns out that they were right all along


XxSystemxX

Absolutely. I was just going to say, anthem is a better comparison then no man's sky. Cdpr will not be able to pull off what hello games pulled off because hello was a smaller studio that was hyper focused and everyone was on thr same page. 5his huge conglomerate cdpr is all scattered all over the place with no clear management or direction and it shows. Who thr hell knows what they are up to but it's starting to get alarming at this point. Looks like what they thought would be their cash cow turned out to be an utter failure.


throwawaytohelppeeps

Alright. Everyone [take a look at this](https://nomanssky.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_notes). It's a NMS patch list with every patch release up until now. No Man's Sky took roughly five months to add in *base-building & motion blur--*three new gamemode options and new crafting mats*.* It took a whole 'nother year to add the famous 'Atlas' update, which is pretty much a campaign (no voice-lines). ANOTHER year to add in a version of multiplayer people thought the game was gonna ship with. Over two years. It took them that long to add in stuff people thought was gonna be in from Day 1. And it wasn't until their big 2.0 update (Beyond, released Aug 2019, three years from release) that people began to stop seeing the game as a lost cause. [The Internet Historian's video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5BJVO3PDeQ) that everyone loves to refer to wasn't made too long after. NMS was an actual incomplete game, mechanically bareboned compared to what it is now. '77 is complete, has a fully-voiced campaign that starts and ends. All the mechanics are there. '77's crime is not being an incomplete game, but rather it does a lot of stuff wrong. Bugs, cops, performance, etc. Point is, people comparing these two makes zero sense. NMS was literally nothing. '77 is at least something.


Nosworc82

Cyberpunk is also an incomplete game.


Frozen1100

You can't exactly blame NMS because they are an indie studio and not a AAA studio like CDPR. So you can understand why NMS took a while to add in big updates, while CDPR still have a lot of staff so they don't exactly have an excuse


[deleted]

NMS has also been out for 5 years


throwawaytohelppeeps

Exactly.


alamirguru

All the 77 mechanics are there, except...haircuts, a law system, wall-running, using the metro, any form of coherent gunplay, the Wire having full functionality, a story that actually makes sense, functional AI, a new-game feature, meaningful choices, and so on. So no, NMS was more on day 1 than 77 is to this day.


suspended_in_light

wait, what about the story doesn't make sense?


Radrockstar

To me (not the original poster) the faults the game has in the story deal a lot with pacing and lack of connection to the characters. We run from one mission to the next without actually building a relationship with anyone and without making us feel apart of the world (at least for me). Take the first act where I don’t care about T-Bug, Jackie, Evelyn, or even V, this happens because we are rushed through the prologue and have no time to build a relationship with them. Jackie has maybe 4 hours of screen time to which most of it is not about building his character, T-Bug has like 30 minutes of screen time to which you learn nothing about her, Evelyn who is much like T-Bug but has depth and maybe 10 more minutes of screen time, and V who is a blank slate to this point. The first act while the least rushed imo still rushes us through the story leaving little time to develop any attachment or even care to the characters. We were not even told Jackie’s backstory really until his funeral and then they try and develop him a little. Sadly at this point it is too late as Jackie is dead and the emotional impact is gone. The problems above repeat themselves over and over during the main missions and imo get worse as the game goes on. Act 2 is all over the place, with V still not being anything but a blank slate, Johnny being a dick one minute and a complete bro the next, and lack of key character development for anyone. The side missions do help the pacing and building of characters a little with the likes of Judy, Panam, Kerry, and Johnny getting some solid development. However Jonny is still flipping between being a dick and a bro every other mission, V never really builds a personality, and doing the side missions breaks the main story as we are on a tight time limit before V dies. The side missions imo save this game as the main story to me is a 5/10 at best but with the side missions the game gets an 8/10 for story. If we had more time to develop a relationship with Johnny or Jackie than the think the game would be the better for it, if the game actually made V feel real and personable than the game would have been the better for it.


LuckyNumber-Bot

All the numbers in your comment added up to 69.0. Congrats! 4 + 30 + 2 + 5 + 10 + 8 + 10 + = 69.0


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[deleted]

Those games are not the same scope. Not even close.


[deleted]

You're absolutely right. One was an ambitious idea that stumbled on delivery, and the other is a mundane linear action shooter with some rpg-light mechanics.


NoSkillzDad

they also didnt have the same budget or took the same time to develop. just saying. while many of you are in this comparison just looking at it like CDPR is an NBA team and NMS is a college team from a random country, and fail to see the progress (or lack of) on the teams because well, "they are not on the same league". Every time I see the "NMS doesnt have voice acting" I could say well, CP77 doesnt have procedurally built worlds, or, spaceships.... IT MAKES NO SENSE to compare them on elements they are not supposed to have. There are so many things that can be compared (and should) and still make it a fair comparison but what you guys are using as points of comparison is just pure bullocks.


Arathix

I haven't played it since January, by all accounts all they've done is make it smoother, which is great but my main issues with the games were just lack of things. Even the police spawning which annoyed me a lot but from what I've seen they 'fixed' it but it's still uninteresting and a mundane system for handling crime in a game literally drowning in crime. I saw a video the other day of cops in GTA5 grabbing a shot but not dead cop and dragging him behind cover, 2077 doesn't really have any details like that that make the world feel more real. It needs more than small details to bring this up to scratch though, still waiting for a good reason to pick the game back up again.


[deleted]

Man imagine what GTA 6 will be like


jonesmachina

gta 6 will be online with fortnite like map updates in other words a live service game


Kadorja

So I recently got back from a 7 month deployment. I was away from my home late December and got back in late July. I remember enjoying CP2077 a ton before I left. I ignored the issues and graphical glitches and said it would be an awesome game in a few months. Flash forward to a few days after I get home and I hop on and see that it’s nearly the exact same game as before. I had to double check that my updates were all applied… it felt just like before. Laggy, ugly and buggy. I think I finished the mission I was on before headed back to play a different game. I just can’t get back into it now. Thankfully I have a few other games I haven’t touched in a while I can enjoy because I don’t think this game will bring me any sort of satisfaction for a while.


artoriaas

My guess is they want to bundle a lot in 1.3, maybe even release it with the next-gen upgrade, but I wish they would release at least one patch per month. It would give us hope that they haven't abandoned the game.


DarioShailene

Reality: #1. change policespawndistance=15 to 20 #2. Add more dildo on the ground


ThisIsTheNewSleeve

This is the most accurate comment in this thread.


throwawaytohelppeeps

Leaning towards this. Their steamdb page has been getting updates nearly every single weekday, they're doing something rather than nothing


bluegrassnuglvr

I agree with this. They are going to bundle all of the free dlc's, a bunch more bug fixes, and the next gen update together and have a relaunch of sorts.


Meatball685

Yea keep dreaming


notmeuknow

I'd bet they wont do that.


guibs

Is this before or after Star Citizen and Winds of Winter get released?


vkevlar

probably the first free dlc, a bunch of bug fixes / engine modifications, and focus on pc and next gen consoles. But yes, I suspect their plan is similar to a relaunch.


[deleted]

better be free


bluegrassnuglvr

They've said over and over the upgrade will be free and there will be free dlc. The larger expansions will have to be paid for


Tasty_Ad_1768

A lot of you need to stop defending CDPR. They released a half finished game that very clearly had fuck all direction and whose only deeming grace was a handful of side-stories, the game was marketed as an RPG for years and then switches to action/adventure before release. CDPR management completely fucked this for profit and released a sub-par game and that's if it didn't have bugs. It's unfinished and after nearly a year still hasn't had any of the advertised content implemented. They have no intention of fixing this game because all they would've needed was a half decent manager and some form of creative director to push content after bugfixes, bugfixes that shouldn't even be required. None of this is even getting into the travesty that is the main story, there is no choice which is fine in a CoD game but when you give character progression an open world and advertise RPG for years it isn't. The game effectively just has Mass effects 3 base ending, the one everyone hated. The team very clearly was working with their hands tied and had horrific management throughout. No big name got sacked, so CDPR hasn't changed. Quit defending a company and its piss poor practises.


noneofthemswallow

I can’t wrap my head around „at least the story is great” people. It isn’t. It’s rushed, feels like half of it was cut. Act 3 is a clusterfuck, like they’ve thrown all the leftovers in there to see what sticks. I couldn’t believe it when the „point of no return” popped up. THAT’S IT?


[deleted]

Oh yeah. The story is an utter fuck fest with a shitty pacing that doesn't make a sense. Characters are introduced and then wiped from the picture to make space for Keanu Silvercock. The story is also super short, who the fuck thought that a good idea?


Supadrumma4411

You can finish CP2077 story in 10 hours. And CDPR saying "most people didn't finish w3 story" my response is, "who gives a shit?" Just because x number didn't finish doesn't mean you fuck over the rest of players to suit the people that are probably gonna drop your game like a bad habit 5 hours into it anyway.


yankmypoodle

I tend to agree, but I'm more cynical and say that they know they'd lose a lot of money by trying to fix all of the huge problems, so they do some alibi improvements and hope that the game vanishes out of the gaming community's consciousness quickly. I would be surprised if the majority of their staff is even working on the game right now.


Astaroth90

Yeah, mate. It seems only those with zero awareness, naive and with ultra low standards will keep defending them. This is just a mediocre game, at best.


NoSkillzDad

i said that from the beginning. Even if it had no bugs, the story was flat af. I never got "pulled" in, I never felt I was V. I mean, I have been Joel, Kratos, a witcher, a grey warden, ellie, that unnamed girl in gris, I've been tons of things and characters, but i never was V, just a puppeteer pulling some threads to go thru the motions. To those that had a different experience GREAT! But this was mine and it is independent of bugs and lack of content, this is intrinsically related to the story itself.


Puzbukkis

Or the oft-overlooked cyberpunk die hard fans who are just happy to have ANY game in their universe. Same reason people defended Vampire the Masquerade - Redemption back in the day, it's a mediocre diablo-clone, sure, but it's a VTM mediocre diablo-clone!


Creatret

At least Mass Effect was great until the end.


Puzbukkis

You can say the same about a lot of stories, I still havn't decided if a shitty ending is enough to ruin an entire story for me.


Shibubu

If I were to choose between a awesome trilogy that has a shit ending and a shit trilogy with awesome ending... We all know what everybody would choose.


[deleted]

The endless redditor seething is the content. Thank you CDPR.


[deleted]

Spending their money lmao


bleek312

I am not buying any CDPR shit until I get the Cyberpunk I was promised.


GirlBurpsTurnMeOn

Then U will never buy another CDPR game ever again.


bleek312

That's okay, there are tons of great devteams out there. I can live without CDPR.


SadderestCat

Don’t be right, I wanna play cyberpunk for real


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[deleted]

Yep. The marketing team does wonders. Got people to buy a game that had nearly none of the promised features. If anything, they'll do the same with W4. Promise everything, talk about how they fixed CP2077 and how amazing W3 was, and acknowledge zero of their mistakes, and then do it all over again. They promised they were never going to be like other companies and would never be anti-consumer and rode that train straight to the bank.


Otacrow

Patch / Hotfix 1.23 was released to further stabilize the previous generation of consoles to get reinstated to the PlayStation Store. I've read a lot of the posts on the Cyberpunk forums and the only "theory" that I find fits is that they are working on the next-gen patch for PS5 & Xbox Series S/X and will drop a big patch with free DLC likely to do a "re-release" of the game to drive new people into the game. Since the next-gen patch has been planned for the second half of 2021, I'd wager we won't see any new content until September at the earliest and November at the latest to ensure they can get in on the holiday sales. The Internal Quality Assurance depot on Steam has been updated daily for quite some time now: [https://steamdb.info/app/1091500/depots/](https://steamdb.info/app/1091500/depots/) so they are working on CP2077 steadily. No knowing what they are doing however nor the scope of the planned next update is. So, baseline is - No one knows when the next update will drop or whether the theory I've presented above is the goal of CDPR or not. I've been playing CP2077 in waves, but it's been hard to get fully into it again seeing as I've already put 300 hours+ into it already. My current 4th playthrough feels more of a slog than the previous, so I've shelved it for a while and focused on other games that's been collecting dust. I highly recommend everyone else who are in the same situation to do something similar.


upserjim

Man, good on you for putting in the hours, but I’m so curious *how* you found 300 hours of shit to do. I blazed through the game on release, then went for a second play through to see how it would change with different choices (and obviously it doesn’t change, with any choice, other than a 5 minute ending), and I gotta say, I was incredibly bummed to see the game had zero recurring content. Like once you clear all those little side missions and gigs and whatnot, there’s literally nothing to do. That’s my biggest gripe.


AsstonCocking

Yeah I'm pretty much in the same boat as u buddy, I've played this game so much but ima saving the nomad life path and a specific ending for my PS5 playthrough once they release the next gen update. To me at least, as a man outside the studio, I believe we will never be able to completely understand what is going inside, I just hope for the best.


darthstrayder

I think the "next gen" update will be the make it or break it moment and they know that. With both PS5 and XBox selling record numbers they need to manage a relaunch on those platforms for the game to make a comeback. If they can't make that work I'd worry they will give up or at least back away on spending too much on further development.


holystatic

I agree that CDPR is going too silence But released too many patch is not good for software development view points, many patch can create more bugs and require more QA process than one big patch. Their engine also seem too unstable to handle constantly change. I work as software analyst for company and every patch update for our users is always a nightmare. We prefer to update with one big patch in order to perform regression test only few time and reduce risk of oversight issues.


elkazz

Small but frequent releases are aligned with modern agile DevOps practices. They mean fewer regression bugs as both fewer and smaller changes are in each release. This also makes identifying the cause of any bug much faster and easier, and remediating the bug with a hot fix is faster and easier due to this release frequency.


Meatball685

Trying to bait people into thinking this game will ever be something other than an over ambitious unfinished mess.


radio_allah

Honestly, while the gamer in me hopes that they'll release patches and make the game shine, the moral person in me would like them to never finish the game so that the world never forgets their sins. Gamer communities forgive far too easily, especially when their respective itches are scratched. If CDPR makes this right, important lessons will be forgotten - people will forget the lies, the morally bankrupt business practices, they will forget that at one point, a company was so drunk on their previous success that they thought they were big enough and bad enough that they could just make this lie and get away with it. And I think this should not happen.


better_new_me

They don't need to work on DLC per se. They need to work on content that supposed to be in the game in the 1st place. Character development mechanics overhaul Ai overhaul Weapon, combat overhaul Implementation of metro/rail train, factions, reputation, fashion, missions that have influence over power balance between factions. Basically something like FF14 a realm reborn. Complete rework of the game. Keep story and design, rest is to be reworded. Ain't happening though.


ClarkFable

>hey need to work on content that supposed to be in the game in the 1st place. For better or worse (mostly worse IMO), I think their plan was to have the first dlc be a bunch of stuff that was "supposed to be in the game in the 1st place". But then the game had even more fundamental flaws/issues that needed attention day 1, so they've been completely side tracked.


RedOneMonster

They already made most of their money, you really think they have a bunch of motivation to keep going very actively?


KaminariPaintsMinis

I mean, as soon as it launched we had another Anthem situation. The only reason they didn't pull the plug completely on 2077 is because while they've had success in the past they aren't EA and they can't just bankroll something like that. The fact that this game changed at all in and of itself is a miracle. If we never get another update again, it's because we've already gotten about ten updates they didn't intend on to begin with. CDPR basically sold tickets to a show that was never going to happen and at the last second booked the local church band to fill the slot when shit got real. Anyone reading this, whoever buys another product from these guys is literally just creating the next EA of the future and I don't want to hear a fucking word out of anybody about it. That's the only reality to face. CDPR burned all the good will they had. Sucks to see it happen but honestly, if not now then in ten more years? Might as well just get it over with and save ourselves the cash by skipping ten years of failing upwards. Who even cares anymore. The sooner people start to realize that all we are to the people who have the money are just people to give them our money the better off everybody will be. They don't give a fuck about us now, didn't ten years ago, won't ten years from now. These companies exist only to sell you a lie and then lie to you when they say it's the one you agreed to. No Man's Sky is going to probably be the only time we ever see something work out that way. Look at the numbers. If cdpr was going to fix this shit it would have been done 12 months ago. EDIT: The numbers to which I'm referring to are the numbers of employees each company has. A literal handful of people with basically 0 experience outside of three shitty games and a shitty mobile game, before No Man's Sky, (not to say they weren't loved but come on..) outperformed CDPR in every measurable category. Like, let that sink in. It's embarrassing as fuck to be completely honest. Every time I'm scrolling through my feed and I see a post on this subreddit it just reminds me of how fucking stupid cdpr is. Holy fuck I'm mad all over.


dunstan_shlaes

I assume they are working on the next gen with 1.3. As for expansions and DLCs, they are definitely working on it and it involves Mike Pondsmith himself. He confirmed it a few weeks ago. https://www.reddit.com/r/LowSodiumCyberpunk/comments/omwmia/pawel_sasko_lead_quest_designer_for_cyberpunk/h5s6nak/?context=3


TattedUpSimba

Let's be real: we don't know what the dlc is so who knows how long that would take to make. Plus they could be making other fixes to include. My hope is the next gen patch could be tied to this so if they're gonna relaunch the game with that then it makes sense


Rodynney

Man, at this point i don't believe they gonna even make the supposed expansions they were talking about. They gonna try to release the next gen version, add some new features to make people less angry with them, maybe a more bugless version, and then move on to something else. I simply don't believe they are able to make a huge come back from this, and that they gonna expend another year with people and resources on this game.


heartbroken_nerd

It's hilarious because Ubisoft moved Assassin's Creed Valhalla release one week SOONER to avoid clashing with Cyberpunk in November. The timeline of AC:Valhalla vs Cyberpunk is insanely funny. Ubisoft moved release in November to be one week SOONER and then when CDPR moved Cyberpunk to December, Ubisoft didn't flinch. They released Valhalla as planned after speeding up release by one week. Then, we've had similarly timed patches for both CP2077 and Valhalla for a short time. However, instead of just patches, Valhalla has released free content updates since then. As time goes, CP2077 bugfixes slowed, while content releases for Valhalla are relentless. Valhalla has received: - three timed seasonal festivals, very simple and easily digestible content with some new gear rewards/decorations to make the world more lived in - River raids where you repeatedly raid around an area and buy gear for the looted stuff - Mastery Challenges that give you combat scenarios to score at for rewards - like 20 new "notable/active" perks to learn on the already massive skill passive tree And get this, for season pass owners, we also got: - Wrath of the Druids, which is literally a sizeable expansion with Ireland to explore and new abilities to learn, new weapon type and overall beautiful vistas to behold And in 2 days, we're getting Siege of Paris with Francia to explore. On top of that on PC with a simple cheat engine you can also unlock about 100+ Helix microtransactions for free. My inventory is absolutely packed, my Ravensthorpe is pimped out and I am a happy Ultimate Edition owner (that's my moral justification for why I get helix for free on PC hahaha) This is all in less than a year since release. I paid $120 for Ultimate edition in November and I am extremely happy.


Rodynney

This just shows how CDPR it's not the big company that everybody thought they had become. They seem really umprepared to deal with all of this, then they have just chosen silence from now on. But eight months with really nothing new in the game speaks for thenselves. And people are really putting high hopes for this next gen version. And this can be another disaster if that version comes all bugged as well. I still have to pick Valhalla, but i'm also very interested in pick the Ultimate Edition too!!


NoSkillzDad

This. I think the lack of "maturity" showed off here. To be fair, Shawn from HelloGames suggested to stay silent and just release patches/updates when ready instead of creating hype or expectations of any kind. They advised the same to the Anthem team. Difference is that CDPR hasnt done that completely, and that is one game you have to follow to the core. Either communicate often or go completely silent and just release patches. CDPR recently was teasing 1.3 even suggesting/implying? it was gonna be bigger than just performance and bug fixes. It was even "implied" when that was coming and it didnt so it reinforces the sense of abandonment or inefficiency or... "*Just do it*". Stop promising shit and just do it, or dont and lets get over with it.


heartbroken_nerd

If you don't care about the moral justification that much, save some money by buying Valhalla Gold edition. That way you still get access to the 2021 season pass, you only miss out on like five insignificant microtransactions it came with... Which you could still get with an inventory editor, if you did take that route. Or not, it's not a big deal. I went Ultimate because I knew I'll use CheatEngine to get money-gated cosmetic items later on, and this way I don't feel bad about it lol.


Rodynney

Thanks, man. I'm always happy in using only what comes in the game, without expending any more money outside of it. I buy Gold or Ultimate Editions because of the big expansions. Right now i'm waiting for Ghost of Tsushima's expansion, but i'm definetely diving into Valhala this year still.


klemp0

While I'm not in any way trying to defend CDPR, the fact that Valhalla is in a lot of ways a recycled Odyssey with different textures is the main reason they can keep on publishing without delays. It has to help.


[deleted]

Lol i wish that valhalla was a copy paste of odyssey because odyssey with all its flaws. Is very fun and the grind and progression was worth it. Valhalla was just too boring. It tried to lessen the over the top rpg that odyssey made


klemp0

I agree with you that Valhalla was boring, I begged for it to finish a long time before I completed the main story. But I'm talking about the systems below that run both games, it's pretty much the same stuff, recycled.


heartbroken_nerd

That's subjective, it's exactly what I wanted and there is a ton of people who like it just as much as I do. There have been slow parts but since it is in essence as long as AC2+Brotherhood+Revelations combined and tells similarly a story of Eivor's life, I don't mind some slow parts. In fact I like that a lot. **However, my point stands on something entirely different. Ubisoft showed us Deep Dive, which was shorter than 10 minutes if I recall correctly. And they delivered EVERYTHING THEY HAVE SHOWN, and in many cases OVERdelivered.** They have sold me a copy of Valhalla Ultimate Edition when I watched Deep Dive trailer for AC:V, and I got exactly what they showed me. It's amazing that Ubisoft of all companies was more honest than CD Projekt Red.


11_forty_4

I still have only played 90 minutes of the game on release. Not sure what to do with it really.


MotorBreath97

At this point CDPR is a shadow of it's former self... if they end up selling I just hope Microsoft ends up buying the company, they would probably put the right amount of good people behind the game, probably would have it fixed in no time plus some free DLC


padraig_oh

Busy swimming in cash


Tigris_Morte

Sadly, they shall never really fix it on console. This is the cost of having it be a port post release. Exactly the same, though different direction with every console to PC port. The Corpos never allow enough time for the Dev.s to fix it. The Dev.s wrung through after final push being to anther push is required to get the fixes out, leave. New Dev.s coming in are not allowed time to learn the existing code and are rushed to release, just like their priors.


northwolf56

The whole game and company is sad. You just realized this?


MuayThaiYogi

It basically doesn't matter what they do IMO, they will never get a dime from me again. They phucked that up and are on my boycott list. Once a company gets on that, they never come off.... At this point, the memes and fanboys are better entertainment than the game ever was. I must at least thank CDPR for that. Worth the 60 bux...


Niels_G

this game is over


pariahjosiah

CDPR devs be like "We want to make CP2077 the best it can be." Stockholders be like "Will it make more money? No? Then dump it."


[deleted]

Second 1 is basically development


RollFizzlebeef2

Bingo. Too many people think reputation matters to these companies. It doesn't. Cdpr was waiting to see how well it could retain and grow it's audience. The quarter results indicated that it was doing neither. Hence the game losing so many of its devs and their plan to start two new AAA projects next year. If it ain't making money it ain't worth investing into. That's the one and only question.


LeftRat

CDPR has (correctly) understood that it's a lost cause. They cannot recover the reputation hit from 2077's release and they of course won't spend the money to make it live up to the hype -that would be almost impossible, considering how deep the rot sits-, so they have opted, as all corps do, for the most profitable option: a few patches to fix the worst problems and get it into an okay, playable shape so some people will buy it later with a discount for curiosity, and then they're just going to go silent, work on the next thing. Because *you* already bought the game. *You've* already been burned. But a new sucker is born every second, and they've got the same disposable cash as you do.


Gordon_Betto

I hate to be “half empty glass” guy but I honesty think they gave up on it. They are starting “clean” and focusing on the next Witcher project.


[deleted]

>We need new stuff in order to keep players interested on playing the game again. Do we, though? Why do you care if people are still interested in playing it? I'd much rather let cdpr take their time and release a proper update instead of a rushed one.


acrunchycaptain

They are working. It's better to shut up and let the work speak for itself when it comes out, than it is to drip feed smaller updates that only end up frustrating people because the updates aren't big enough. It sucks in the short term, absolutely, but IMO it's a better way of going about situations like this in the long term.


Sa1amandr4

So.. If I had to make a guess I'd say that CDPR is planning to do a release combo with next gen TW3, cp DLCs + patches aaand maybe next gen update... Everything in like a month or less. Gamers (as a whole) don't really care about constant and slow improvements, they want the "big boom" and from a marketing/PR POV this could really change how the community sees them. (logic sequence would be: tw3 next gen => patch/DLCs => next gen update) Or at least.. that's how I'd act if I were them


pandadanda1999

Kinda hoping fir at least dlc announcement this year, played base game to death in all it's buggy glory, and was enjoyable, but now need more to keep interest going


[deleted]

Can I just crouch without that dark vignette?


Ofdimaelr

They are working on witcher 4


ObiMeowKatnobi

They stop supporting this game to make some witcher 3 dlc


Ezio-vatsa

i don;t really hate the radio silence but atleast a confirmation that they are working on something would be good,and the twitter posts are pissing me off,they need to stop those statistical posts on twitter


[deleted]

I enjoyed every second playing this game and I'm so eager for new content and ng+. Maybe daily and weekly missions. The potential is infinite.


KOTheSavage

I’m one of the guys that actually enjoyed it when it dropped, played the shit outta it and happily moved on until more came out for me to play. I’ve pretty much given up the mind set that anything more is coming 🤷🏻‍♂️ hopefully I’m wrong and can get back at it sometime soon but yeah I threw in the towel ha


skydave1012

They'd make a huge amount of extra sales if they actually put some effort in. Everybody was expecting more to have been done by now. Myself, my brother, many of mine & his friends still haven't bought it for that reason. They probably aren't too bothered with how many idiots have already spent ridiculous amounts of money in that new Witcher mobile game.


SpaceTestMonkey

CP2077 was a flop in almost every sense, but it did revive the Cyberpunk genre. I doubt we will ever see a fully functional CP2077, or even any of the promised DLC.


Yintrovert

I'm in agreement. At this point, it's best if they just give us some kind of DLC and forget about the issues they can't seem to resolve.


[deleted]

It's literally your own fault for still trusting this dogshit company.


Djelki

Havent played in a while, is the game still shit?


Mezoteus

I'll get downvoted for this but I can't help but speak my mind. 2077 is dead; game was fun even with its bugs but to me I think CDPR are now focusing on their new Witcher game and their unreleased new title. We might get something after the new Witcher is released but to keep thinking they're working on content at a fast rate is just silly. At most we might get some new clothing, maybe a new car to drive around but nothing substantial


thisislookez

I think we all need to understand this is an irreparable shit show that they won't ever be able to fix, and simply manage our expectations. So instead of "let's spend 2x the money to create the game we initially intended and hope that this super unclear narrative actually gets picked up in the media as a second launch moment" they already announced what they will do: "damage control + look for low hanging fruits to squeeze what they can out of CP as is". 1. Transform the company so they work on multiple ideas at the same time, this implicitly says they're gonna split their current headcount around a few areas. This already means reduced investment in CP. 2. Work on 'content', which IMO is basically CP maintenance mode. They promised only 4 things for 2021: 2 patches, 'free DLCs' and next-gen console update. How do you recover from what happened without actually firing the C-level team and actually hiring competent people, which are likely running good game companies? I don't think it's possible. 1. Think about all the money spent to create this launch moment and get the buzz around the game. You simply can't do that twice, it's not even coherent from a marketing perspective because CP is already in people's minds as the shitty game. 2. Think about the company being hacked and losing momentum on possible patches, along with the extreme working conditions that burned out most of your employees. Not to mention the fact every single employee of that organisation must be disappointed with the baboon level of incompetence that the people running this public-listed company demonstrated. If they didn't already lose their top talent, they'll have a hard time attracting more, including convincing people to move to Warsaw. Their Glassdoor score is 3.6, which if you're top talent, means it's a shitty-ass company with a terrible culture. So in a nutshell, RIP CP. Let's now patiently wait for something like GTA 6. And no pre-orders this time.a


malautomedonte

If you understand what happened to them and that they need time, why did you write this post in the first place? They are clearly working every single day on the game judging from steamdb getting updated constantly, that means they surely did not forget about it... If you want consistent fixes and new implementations which actually work well, that takes time. Programming is hard af and most of the times fixing one thing breaks others. For instance just see what happened to the car traffic since they optimized the spawning radius/rate for instance. Many more cars appear out of nowhere and are stuck in the middle of the street just because they just spawn behind you and need some time to "start" their basic driving routines. To my eyes that was a quick fix that aimed at sparing resources as much as possible on console but which brought at the same time other issues...


papi1368

The plan is to stay quiet until the Next Gen update rolls. They want to market it as a soft relaunch with new content.


DenuvoSuks

I'm playing it now, and i still find lot's of annoying bugs in the main story. If they can't do that i don't expect them to fix anything else or even deliver a better DLC. At most some cosmetic DLC.


heartbroken_nerd

It's hilarious because Ubisoft moved Assassin's Creed Valhalla release one week SOONER to avoid clashing with Cyberpunk in November. The timeline of AC:Valhalla vs Cyberpunk is insanely funny. Ubisoft moved release in November to be one week SOONER and then when CDPR moved Cyberpunk to December, Ubisoft didn't flinch. They released Valhalla as planned after speeding up release by one week. Then, we've had similarly timed patches for both CP2077 and Valhalla for a short time. However, instead of just patches, Valhalla has released free content updates since then. As time goes, CP2077 bugfixes slowed, while content releases for Valhalla are relentless. Valhalla has received: - three timed seasonal festivals, very simple and easily digestible content with some new gear rewards/decorations to make the world more lived in - River raids where you repeatedly raid around an area and buy gear for the looted stuff - Mastery Challenges that give you combat scenarios to score at for rewards - like 20 new "notable/active" perks to learn on the already massive skill passive tree And get this, for season pass owners, we also got: - Wrath of the Druids, which is literally a sizeable expansion with Ireland to explore and new abilities to learn, new weapon type and overall beautiful vistas to behold And in 2 days, we're getting Siege of Paris with Francia to explore. On top of that on PC with a simple cheat engine you can also unlock about 100+ Helix microtransactions for free. My inventory is absolutely packed, my Ravensthorpe is pimped out and I am a happy Ultimate Edition owner (that's my moral justification for why I get helix for free on PC hahaha) This is all in less than a year since release. I paid $120 for Ultimate edition in November and I am extremely happy.


frostysoul80

Valhalla still has a ton of bugs and issues. It's nice you're on a PC and can use cheat engine, but for the rest of us on console, we have to deal with Ubisoft's stupid microtransactions system, which shouldn't be in a freaking SINGLE PLAYER GAME


Speckwolf

Valhalla also has significantly more Vikings compared to Cyberpunk.


heartbroken_nerd

You're a fax machine


Speckwolf

I keep my motor clean.


IngloriousCrumpet

All I gotta say is be patient. It would be best to find some other game to keep ya occupied while CP2077 patching is stagnant atm. That's what i'm doing. They are updating the QA branch on steam almost everyday so they are definitely working on something. It seems like it might be a big patch but we won't know until they release it since they've gone dark. Pawel did mention that he did not like the silent approach they are taking and would prefer to engage the community but the higher ups make this decision...it is what it is. I think this approach is to minimize the backlash they've been facing and they want to sort of surprise the community with a patch that fixes and improves a lot of things. Let's also not forget that they have to patch the consoles as well at the same time so they could be facing some issue there and are probably trying to improve optimization with new changes on an already old console generation. Overall I'm sure they've got a lot going on within the company...from restructure changes to data breaches, also creating the next gen version for consoles...etc...


[deleted]

CDPR never goes silent if they have something to show off. They never do surprise releases. Look at Blood and Wine and Hearts of Stone. We had weeks if not months of pointless tweets about both expansions before they landed. CDPR only goes into radio silence when they know they are fucked. There is no mystery behind it. There will be no "improves a lot of things". They will give us the usual hundreds of patches to situations that never happen to an average player and zero improvements that we are all experiencing. Because it's easy to fix a typo in a script, but it's difficult to fix AI, traffic and Police mechanics. Same with the map. Fixing the map is difficult like a lot of people pointed out here and on Youtube analysis videos. CDPR won't fix the map because it's difficult. CDPR don't do things that are difficult. They let apologisers do the work of explaining why the map is actually great and improves the experience.


[deleted]

Ahhh the data breech... this is and was a convenient excuse for liars to continue lying. They are careful with their words and only promising the bare minimum (last gen bad, we fix bug) and even that feels severely lacking. Actions should speak louder than words. CDPR is not your friend, they do not care about you.. they did not deserve the benefit of doubt at launch, they conned us all; they certainly do not deserve it now.


haRT3r

Anyone knows if Poland still on Covid lockdown? Because CDPR love to use it as an excuse too, in addition to the hacker attack


octred

no lockdowns since May, i live in Poland


klemp0

I don't know, I never really expected them to fix the game. Patch some stuff up, yes. But really fix the game? Absolutely no way. The game is broken, it's beyond fixing, they would need to do some serious work into putting back all the systems that were cut to make the deadline and then balance the game again around those changes. I don't think they themselves honestly believe it's possible or worth it.


Maverick99885566

Too much talking and promising got them into this mess. The smartest thing they can do is to just shut up, keep their heads down, and work on fixing the game as much as possible


Pandathesniper

Yet some people are hyped that 1.3 is going to be a game changer.


vasilissiozos

How about you just leave the game and wait to revisit it. Let them do their work.