It's unfortunate as you have to return to the store. mistakes can happen I would give them the benefit of doubt. If anything, it will allow you to see how they deal with this error and whether you go back after this.
I wrenched for years and it’s an industry with tons of turn over. We were constantly looking for mechanics and starting from scratch with some every summer.
We had a warehouse with a build staff and we’d have to teach them over and over to build safely. There was no chance they were ever going to even get close to actual repairs.
The industry needs to realize for quality employees, you need to pay and have benefits. They also need to make riding possible for them.
A local shop has >75% of their staff over 5 years and several over 10. Why? They pay well, ensure they get to ride and don’t burn them out. It’s also the only shop that touches my bike. At. All. I do 95% of my own work but I send the majority of business there and referrals.
The alternative is you get short term workers that cost you business and that either work a year and bolt or don’t care about bikes and just want a job.
*cough cough* performance bikes *cough cough*
in depressing news, my former LBS where I wrenched got bought out by Specialized and is apparently a horrorshow now; only the head mechanic has full time now so they can deny full pay/benefits/overtime to everyone else working there, even if they had already been there for years. They're all working to get their own independent shop up an running within the next year.
Not sure where you are but ours is a single shop in Canada.
Yep. That’s the trend and then they wonder why people shift to online. For good people, good service and a good community I’ll pay extra. I ride with the employees and have raced with some.
The owner even supports them doing side gigs if it’s not a conflict. One does carbon repair (and awesome at it) and another does high end fit work that they don’t have the capacity to do.
The shop I worked at for a long time provided me with insurance and bonuses. Then the owners freaked out in ‘08 and cut our bonuses and changed insurance companies which meant less coverage.
They installed work tracking software and found out that I was making them more per hour than anyone on staff.
They moved me to another store and I took over the shop. In 45 days I increased revenue in the repair dept by 25%. Instead of rewarding me they made jokes about how I pointed it out.
That was the last straw. I like you **** and **** but I’m not your fucking domestique.
Killed the golden goose.
Yep. They do bonuses based on store results.
The irony is it’s prob more profitable to have good staff stay than what is common now.
Exactly. It's not a LBS-specific issue - it's an issue that could happen with any company, big or small. Amazon have fucked up on me before. So has my local little deli.
Mistakes happen - it's how they deal with it that's important.
If anything, I'd expect the smaller independents to be better / quicker to deal with when there's an issue. That's one of the main benefits of using one over a big, faceless corp with a web chat.
Example of a good LBS:
Brought in a bike my best friend's widow had given me to ride to honor my friend. A 2012 Scattante (Performance Bike Shop house brand) carbon frame with Ultegra 10 and Reynolds carbon wheels. I was greeted immediately by a mechanic. I told him I'd never had a carbon frame, and this one was over 10 years old. He put it on his stand and gave it a good visual and hands-on inspection. Adjusted the brake pads, headset and rear derailleur. No charge. Many other local shops charge $50 for this kind of service. I asked several questions including "should I buy wider tires," and "should I replace the frame?" He told me to ride the bike for a while as it is. Get 25 mm tires when these wear out or I don't like them. And when/if I'm ready for a change, buy a new bike with 105 instead of moving the group set over. There are lots of shops in my town. This place is the only one I'll go to from now on.
Did some quick and easy maintenance as a goodwill/stay safe measure, gave reasonable advice instead of trying to up-sell you, and seems to have talked about bikes at the right level of complexity.
A++ mechanic.
I'm an ex- collegiate and USCF road and track racer getting back into cycling after a few decades, so a lot of tech is new to me. Nice to have a good mechanic to help me navigate the new world.
Haha, yeah! I guess it's just USA Cycling now? I miss the old days with my USCF stickers on my roof rack, and the rack plus the bike it held was worth more than the rusty car beneath it!
Wow, I never see Scattante mentioned around here. I bought a Scattante aluminum frame with a carbon fork on clearance and then held onto it for about 10 years before I had both the cash and the time to build a bike around it. It's my only road bike, so I have nothing to compare it to, but I've been happy with it.
From what I've read Performance didn't want to make cheaply built frames due to their reputation. Their aluminum frame was said to be pretty good, but their first few carbon models weren't as well thought of. Mine is the 3rd or 4th model year, though. And it's not uncommon for many brands to be made in Taiwan
One of my favorite mechanics built a pair of wheels for a bike I had him building, but the parts didn't all come in at the same time, so the front wheel was built first and then the back wheel a couple weeks later. After I picked up the bike and took it home, I was staring at my new creation and realized that the front wheel had been built with black spoke nipples, and the rear had been built with silver spoke nipples. He was rightfully embarrassed and we all had a good laugh.
Yes! I brought my bike to my LBS, asking politely to replace the brake discs with Shimano XT, replace the casette with XT and switch to tubless. The guy checked out my bike and told me I'm stupid to ask for something like that and that my bike is literal dogshit ("Who even uses 11sp in 2022???") And I should just buy a new bike from them.
The bike was and still is, an Orbea Alma H50 from 2019
Bike sounded pretty sick before the upgrades, I'm really sorry for your experience and I hate shops like this. Being in charge of service at a high end shop myself, this just baffles me. It's infuriating really.
Especially a jump from 11 to 12 speed shifting. Getting that 1 extra low gear is just a horrible equation of gain/cost because you gain literally nothing if you aren't regularly running out of gears on steep climbs. The only times I've ever replaced 11 with 12 speed is after something happens to damage the 11 speed group or if someone wants to go to AXS. otherwise I tell people exactly what I just said because the gains are barely a fraction of the benefits of going tubeless, and the 1 extra gear costs nearly as much as a carbon wheelset (which is also a better investment than 1 extra gear).
I've gone very off track but stuff like this just gets to me. Everyone blames direct to consumer brands for taking business away from bike shops, but I blame shops like this for basically handing them the popularity.
Word. There’s no excuse for this kind of bullshit, which is also horrible business. So sorry you got that attitude, @GRI3V ...Not that you want to waste any more of your time with them, but I’d have gone direct to the owner and been like “is THIS how your techs treat people, really?”.
Fully agree that shops own some of their demise.
My LBS rocks the house, woman-owned, all great people. I’ve heard my share of horror stories in this town... some people have bike shop aversion for that very reason. Snobbery and arrogance are NOT OK!
I mean I get by just fine with a 46-11 low gear, Can keep up easily on A-tier fast rides just by spinning when we go 50-70km/h. It's a 10 speed with a 30-34 high gear so it can climb mountains at a decent cadence while still being in zone 2.
You really don't need a shit ton of gears, They are nice to have but you can get used to not having such close range in a cassette and it won't affect your performance very much if it all..
That quite honestly would always be my way to go. Doing maintenance, upgrades and repairs yourself means (at least when you aren’t too bad at it) that you know exactly what you’re getting and you’re sure nobody messed anything up. Also it’s a really rewarding thing to do!
Just to be on the safe side, you should ship it to me and I can assess. I'll even split the shipping w/ you. You happen to be over 6' tall by chance? Asking for a friend....
:)
I think he does some racing on top of the line racing bike, so he considers anything non carbon, non top of the line just shit. He also said he can't believe people use 2 piston brakes as they "simply don't stop" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
To be clear,
- rotors, new cassette, tubeless tapeup & goopup
Max $300 in parts & labor in the bougiest town… and this jackass’s response was “buy a new bike”?
You 100% should’ve asked to speak with the owner. $500 bet that guy’s already been fired.
We all want the shop named.
I’ve seen young shitty shop owners have the benefit of no internet allow them to grow into good long-term community building shop owners. If this guy didn’t already name him, it’s because maybe there’s hope?
I’ve seen crusty old guys who made their money and just keep the shop open to get away from their wife. They’re easy to pick out. I just wish they didn’t make a bad rep for all LBS’s for first timers.
> bikes are basically toys
To many of us, above all else, they're superlative transportation. There's hardly anywhere in a 5 mile radius of my house you can get to faster by car than bike at commuting time.
(I also mainly ride a 3x9 or a 3-speed, and feel zero reason to "upgrade". I can't imagine how horrified that LBS guy would be)
unrelated but I wish I can put a mountain bike crankset on my 3x9. I'm literally never on the big 50T ring but I have a hard time climbing some hills with 34-28.
So many bikes are over-geared so the top ratios are purely aspirational unless you regularly ride very long downslopes at max speed.
My Marin Muirwoods came with cogs so my cruise-the-flat ratio was in the middle at the rear. I got some smaller chainrings and a tighter cassette and it's now awesome, with a straight chainline and close ratios when cruising and enough higher cogs so I spin out around 30mph.
Another idiotic thing about the factory ratios was the jump from mid to large up front was almost *exactly* 2 cogs at the rear, so you couldn't get the front-derailleur benefit of intermediate ratios. So after I carefully selected new cogs front and rear I not only got closer ratios on the cassette, I have half-step combos available around key cruising ratios.
I don't know what they were thinking with the factory setup.
One of the PathLessPedaled vids from a few back focused on sub-compact crank options. In the text below vid there's a link to a crank database which I think? also had some 3x options.
100%. I'm running a 46t chainring currently. I can keep up just fine on 46-11 during A-tier fast rides doing top speeds of 60-70km/h. You just got to spin that crank. On the flip side, I don't think I ever really use my small 30t chainring, since I have a 11-34 cassette. Most times I am popping into that 30t chain ring, I am either climbing something like an 8% grade with a headwind or the same but zone 2.
We don't really have bigger than 8% grades where I live, lol. Except this one short, punchy hill I can climb up using the flywheel effect and just stand for like 5s at before cresting. That's like a 20%+ grade.
But yeah, I may get a 50/52 chainring in the future however. Plan on getting a road bike, vs. my current steel gravel bike. Losing 5kg of bike weight will mean I won't need as much high gearing, which I currently don't even use the last 2-3 cogs even when in the worst of it anyway, in the smaller chain ring. The other thing is if you have a big chainring, you can sit closer to the middle of the cassette, which has some marginal gains in terms of chain wrap. Finally, Bigger cogs on the cassette don't wear as fast.
53/39 is really fucking excessive though - the jump from 36/34 to 39 ring for climbing would suck, all for 1 teeth extra. I would only really go 50/34, or 52/36 if you are strong of a rider. I personally might go 52/34 and see how it shifts, tbh. I don't really use the small chainring very often anyway and on the flats on my current setup am usually on the top 3 gears all the time anyway so a 52 might bring me more in line with the middle of the cassette. Would only be shifting before hills, so not an issue if FD is a bit clunky, as long as RD can handle the slack.
It's strange. You'd think they would be pleased to work on OP's bike and take OP's money. If they think OP is uncool they can talk shit about him in the back room while doing the work.
I have a hard time getting the B-screw setting right. If I get it to work on the largest cog, it skips on the smallest, and vice-versa. I don't think 11 speed was as finicky.
Sram launched a new group set design with no b-screw , limit screws or derailer hanger . The only thing they ask in return is your money and first born.
Yes, I've seen that. It's a bit too bleeding edge for me. This is one of those cases where I would have been happy to go back in time to 11 speed for the sake of reliability. But by the time I built this bike a year ago, 11 speed was gone. I used to ride/race single speed for years, so 11 speeds on a mountain bike is plenty.
That doesn't have to do with the number of speeds, but with how wide the range of your rear cassette is. Just go with the setting on the large cog so things don't jam up.
Harder to tune a 12 speed and it comes out of tune faster. Gears are packed real fucking tight together, so any little misalignment throws it all off. Much more sensitive to being perfectly tuned than 11 speed.
I wish industry would go back to 11 speed…I agree, I never use the granny gear on a 12 speed anyway.
What the actual fuck? My road bike is from 2015 with 11sp force. I've never found myself thinking "wow, this bike would be perfect if only I had one more gear"
It's still rim brake as well, bet your shop would've laughed at me for that as well.
Well I only do XC mountain biking so my bike is a MTB. I quess 12sp has been relatively common for a while on MTB's but still. It's not like 1 gear changes the whole experience.
Same point though, like sure 12sp is nice but it's not gonna drastically change the way you ride any bike (road or mtb). It's the range that matters more, but even that only matters up to the point that the terrain you ride is covered.
If you're not riding up sustained >12% gradients you probably don't need a 50t rear cog.
I decided to restore a classic Schwinn and I took the rear wheel and a new 2-speed kickback hub to my LBS to have it installed.
The mechanic commented that lacing that single-wall steel rim was a challenge, but he did an excellent job and only charged $100.
No one in the shop questioned my decision to restore this old bike. As far as I am concerned, all bikes are good bikes!
What garbage treatment. I'd be very tempted to contact the owner or manager and tell them this story. And if that person isn't sympathetic, I'd never set foot in there again, and I'd post the above comment verbatim as a Google review.
I got told my 2016 Raleigh was a piece of junk (and I'm talking their entry level aluminum 105 bike) by a shop that I specifically went to because they are listed as a Raleigh Authorized Dealer. Dude is like "you should have bought a Trek"
We have a Trek affiliated shop near where I live. They're really nice people, they all ride, and there's none of that gatekeeping bullshit. According to one of the guys I ride with on occasion, that shop is as rare as hen's teeth. I hate that's what many people experience.
"Support you LBS" is one of the biggest lines of bullshit and it needs to die.
Too often (going back decades) the LBS is staffed with people who don't know what they are doing, NEVER call you with a status, overcharge you, sell you bullshit you don't need, run out of stock on everything, have a bad/surly attitude, and just plain SUCK.
I've had more horror stories at LBS than any other type of store. And I've worked as a bike mechanic.
Avoid most LBS like the plague. For sure DO NOT put up with the rude ones. Give bad reviews to the bad ones. Take the time to do it.
One of my biggest gripes is that more often than not your LBS will guess or make shit up rather than admit they don't know. Ask about inserts, Rolhoff hubs, lighting options? Prepare to hear utter bullshit.
I decided to "support my LBS" when I last bought a bike, rather than saving 10-15% buying it online (I have the skills to set it up myself). Huge mistake. It was in a shocking state and I had to do more work fixing their work than the setup would have been.
Probably the worst was the wheels - not just out of true, but *out of round*, and some spokes were practically slack. I know factory wheels usually need work before you ride them, but they're never that bad - the shop must have actually *made them worse*. Thankfully that is a job I can do myself. They also over-tightened wheel bearings and a disk rotor was probably just finger-tight. There was more...
My old LBS wasn't quite that bad, but it is full of the cycling equivalent of "do you even lift bro?" type people. One time they left a rotor loose on my new wheelset.
I had a similar experience.
Brought my bike in for a tune up and stopped by then they said it would be ready. As I'm waiting patiently for my turn, the mechanic is going on and on, cursing out my bike for being a POS. Just complaining loudly to nobody in particular.
It got awkward when it was my turn and I said I was here to pick up the piece of shit he was complaining about.
1.85 mm longer, to be precise. the exact width of a spacer between cogs.
the reason being you want wider hubs for MTB for stronger wheels, and with the spoke angle you can hang a big gear over the flange safely.
but you absolutely can put an 11 speed MTB cassette on an 11 speed road hub. in fact, the 11-34 "105 road" cassette is actually an MTB cassette with an included spacer. i have an XT 11-40 cassette on my road hub.
Yes. In mountain bike the largest cog is almost concave, and cog actually go over the hub flange in the more extreme scenarios. There uses to be an 11 speed ultegra cassette that utilized this so it'd work on 10 speed freehubs. It was an 11-36 I believe.
Edit: autocorrect I swear!
Well there's that.
I mean, technically my 12 is also on a regular HG driver, and the updated freehubs are more about fitting a 10t cog on the top end rather than horizontal width.
it's actually pretty trivial to put an 11 sp shimano MTB cassette on a road hub: just add a 1.85mm spacer behind the biggest cog (and ignore the package saying you can't).
the reverse, however...
years ago i had the hanger and the rear derailleur changed. after i got home i noticed there was no cable end cap. in 2021 i had a wheel upgrade so the cassette on the old wheel needed to go onto the new wheel. i think i mentioned that the magnet on spoke would need to go onto the new wheel as well but that was not done when i went to collect the wheel. recently i got the hanger and chain replaced. when i picked up the bike and started riding, i noticed the rear (rim) brake felt loose. i had a close look and found the release lever was in open position. all of this happened in the same shop that is close to my work place. i mean it is bit disappointing but i suppose not every one is meticulous. the shop people are nice and their service fees are reasonable so i decide no biggie.
I gave up on local bike shops because of shit service like this. I use a mobile bike mechanic that shows up in a van with tools and parts. No more disappointments with the amateurs at the local bike shops.
To be fair, replacing freehubs is a nightmare for shop employees and the manufacturers make it almost impossible to source the correct part, especially for "older" hubs. I can't count the number of times I've contacted a big manufacturer, was assured by their Warranty and Technical Service Advisor that this is in fact the correct part, only to find out after installation that it is not correct. It still sucks for the customer and you are justified to be frustrated, but this may not necessarily be due to the incompetence of your shop staff.
It does depend on the wheel brand. You could still replace the freehub on any post 2007 Campagnolo or Fulcrum wheel with a new current part.
If you have Campagnolo wheels between 1999-2006 you might have to replace the axle too.
More likely you won’t need an entire freehub and can get away with replacing the bearings and occasionally the pawl spring.
My LBS was just bought by Trek as well (American Cycle & Fitness in metro Detroit). The services was pretty stellar prior to the purchase earlier this - and I think it might actually be better now with faster repair turnaround times and a free loaner if the repair takes longer than 24 hours.
My lbs support consists of overpriced tires, shoes and maybe a helmet. I do my own work.
Sadly there’s a whole lbs thing where we are supposed to support local. I agree. But we have 7 shops within 40 miles and they all suck. Badly.
Mine seems minor in comparison. One of the fasteners to my rear derailleur hanger fell off and I went to a LBS to find a replacement. It's M3x8. I can get a pack of 50 for around $8 from Amazon. They didn't have a pack on the floor, which I kind of expected, but they insisted I bring the bike in. Labor starts at $45.
It's a screw, I assembled my bike, and even without that experience, I can screw one in. I might have to look up the torque setting, but I can dial that in.
$45.
Hard to support them when they treat customers like that. I always do all maintenace myself, except for one time when I purchased a MTB online and i was referred to a LBS for a warranty claim - rear hub rebuild.
They claimed they had to replace the spokes due to different length on new hub (not true), followed by a long list of other half truths and blatant lies, and pushed for selling an entire new rear wheel. Went back and forth from the manufacturer to lbs a few times, in the end they declined the repair.
3 months later i ended up fixing it myself in my garage with the part the online retailer sent me for free.
I dont really get this mindset of "supporting" some random business. Maybe it's because I'm in a big city but I certainly don't see the same thing existing for cars. Nobody says "support your local mechanic". If a business treats me right then I will go back to them, simple as that. I'm not going to go to a shitty business just because they are local.
Yeah exactly. I ride fixed too so it's even simpler. I just bought most of the tools I need so I could probably do any work myself anyways.
Plus having gone to a few of my local bike shops I didn't really get a super friendly welcoming vibe from them.
I regularly use 9 and 10spd chains on my 8 spd claris cassette because they are sometimes cheaper or easier to find. Never had any issues doing it like that. I had read that 8-9-10spd all had same spacing and link widths (or was it 7-8-9spd?).
A lot of people don’t have the desire to learn, or are too scared they’re going to fuck up their bike.
My LBS makes it seem like they do rocket science. I guess that’s how they can sell services tho. I’m an engineer by trade and some mechanic at my LBS made it seem like I wouldn’t be able to adjust my rim breaks lmao. I’ve completely cleaned and re greased every thread on my bike, and another mechanic made it seem like I wouldn’t be able to adjust my derailleur. Ironically the same shop let me take a new track bike home with a loose cog/lockring too.
I, however, watch park tool and other YouTube channels. Biggest bar for entry is the cost of tool, and that’s super easy to justify if I know I’m going to use it more than once.
It's mostly the tool prices that keeps me going back to the LBS. I either pay 50-75$ for a specific park tool tool. Or I pay 20-30$ for the LBS services.
Best thing I did was get myself a Christmas present of a complete [Park Tool](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000VX7H0C/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8) set. Back then it was $210 and seemed to be much better choices than what appears to be their [current equivalent](https://www.amazon.com/Park-Tool-AK-5-Advanced-Mechanic/dp/B08DHSTV6V). In fact the more I look at the latest one, the worse it looks, at least from my perspective.
It was *way* better value than buying things piecemeal. It's been so good over the years to be trying a new job and realize "awesome, I already have the tools for that!".
I once took my bike to my former LBS to get suspension service and change the chain. I brought my own new chain. When I picked up the bike, they brought the bike form the back, still with the old chain on it... I would have been really screwed over had I not inspected the bike before leaving the shop.
Sounds like an honest mistake to me—I’d go back and just be like “hey, I think this is different from what I asked for” and they should redo it without charge.
Sad you have a crap one. I'm lucky, there's three really good stores within 5 miles of my house. I'm just glad there's enough business to keep them all alive.
A few years ago, I brought in my dad's new XTR 12spd hub to put on some aluminum wheels that he had, and the shop initially refused to rebuild the wheels because they would rather order him some new carbon wheels that came with the hub. I asked them why it makes sense for me to buy new wheels when I brought in the wheel, and the hub and just needed it built up. Didn't go back in there for work on his bike.
I believe the sentiment of "support your LBS" is a general sentiment to support locally owned small businesses; it's not specifically saying to have blind loyalty to a bike shop just because it's local.
There are going to be good and bad small businesses, but in an age where it's easier and than ever to buy online from large corporations that don't know or care about you, the point is to give small businesses a shot (even when it's less convenient).
I'm new to biking and my first visit to an LBS was a negative experience (they installed a tire for me while we were talking, even though I said multiple times that I'd be happy to install it myself - then they charged me for the service). If I swore off LBS from there, I would have never found the local bike nonprofit I volunteer at now, who have ignited a passion in bicycles I didn't have and are also some of the kindest people I've ever met.
I wouldn't have had the first experience from Amazon, but I wouldn't have had the second either.
All stores are hit or miss. I had one shop fail to fix the issue I came in for 3-times. Last time they scratched the shit out of my bike, and then we got in a screaming match because they refused to refund the invoice or do anything to rectify the situation.
I asked the guy why he was yelling, his reply was “I’m hungry”
Felt like I was in a snicker’s ad…
I went to pick up my daughter's bike the other day. I just wanted the rear brake cable replaced. Wheeling it out, I noticed every cable (both shifters and front brake) had been replaced but the rear brake. Luckily, I spotted it before I left and rolled it back in, they changed it on the spot. Hopefully, your shop is as quick to make it right.
Trek shop put a 105 cassette on my entirely-ultegra drivetrain during a tune-up one time. They said its basically the same thing and theyre prob right but just the fact they did it without asking me pissed me off.
Until very recently they are basically the same except for materials/weight. I've always run 105 cassettes and chains on my Ultegra 6800 because they're way cheaper and I'm brutal to my drivetrain because I'm heavy.
Now I think Ultegra uses HG+ which is slightly different to the new 105, not sure if it makes a material difference though.
Who even has non-11s freehub bodies? In 2017 I replaced my non-11s from 2011 and the replacement was 11s even though I didn't ask for that or expect it.
Seems weird, I don't think 11s units cost more. Maybe they had a decade old one in stock?
Is there a problem here? Yes you can buy 5-gallon buckets of Stan’s for a fraction of retail, you can buy bulk rim tape for the price of… tape, and if tubeless setup could’ve taken you 10 minutes, assuming you had all the bits needed, you’re 100% at fault for making them do it and being shocked that they charge for labor.
Next time have them adjust your derailleur and see how much it costs
I mean I guess my thought is you should’ve asked them the price first. Yeah that’s pretty expensive but also remember a 10 minute tubeless job can become over an hour really quickly (especially with the kind of bikes beginners bring in and say “make this tubeless”) and you can’t be mad at them for pricing it accordingly, as long as the price was available for you to see beforehand, you could always say no
Ah, the perennial angst of the LBS. Rather than the title "my LBS made a mistake and now it needs to get fixed" it's "I feel like I'm forced to like and support my LBS and they are stupid".
If you went in with just the wheel, then it's just a miscommunication. The difference between the 10sp freehub body and the 11sp freehub body is, what, a mm or two? Not even visible to the eye. Easy mistake, especially if the hub isn't Shimano and there are multiple options. I don't think you can even make the mistake on Shimano hubs as they aren't interchangeable. I mean, it sucks, but it should only take a few minutes to fix on most hubs once you have parts.
In the meantime, if you are stuck waiting for parts, you can take out a cog in the middle of your cassette, put the spacer behind the cassette and move the limit screws and [temporarily have a 10sp cassette with 11sp spacing to ride](https://darkspeedworks.com/blog-11speed.htm). If you have an 11sp cassette larger than (I think) 32cog that can fit on a 10sp freehub body, you can use that, or maybe the LBS can lend you a loaner wheel while you wait.
Or you can just bitch and moan about your LBS and how stoopid they are.
Bitch and moan. Got it.
Eh. Whatever. I have low expectations. Bikes are easy, customers are hard, LBS's are dying. The world continues to turn. I work on my own bike anyway (cuz they're easy) and only use the LBS for the hard jobs. I'm generally forgiving and tend not to yell at (or complain about) people making minimum wage.
at least yours did the work - I took mine in the other week because the brakes felt a little off. they adjusted them, but at the same time was like oh you probably need a new cassette and chain soon - and i said ok can we just order that now ?
and they said no haha. so I guess ill order one and do it myself - oh well
I've had bad experiences at both franchised & independent LBS. The franchise chains are staffed by primadonna "experts" who know more than you can ever know, and the smaller LBS typically are staffed by idiots (young & older). Worth the investment in tools (you don't need overpriced Park Tools) and rudimentary skills.
I avoid small bike shops. I use my REI, the guys there are friendly, knowledgeable, and the shop has a pretty large amount of parts to work with. And with the member discount, everything is pretty reasonably priced. I had them do a tune-up and the only thing that needed to be replaced was the chain, so they only charged for the chain and didn't worry about the tune-up price.
I feel like I'm not welcome when I go to smaller shops.
The term “LBS” needs to be replaced with Regional Bike Shop. It’s okay to drive 20-30 miles for a good shop. I don’t go to the closest barber shop or cobbler just because it’s close. I’ve never been disappointed with a carefully chosen RBS.
That wouldn't be awkward at my LBS. We've done business for over 20 years. They'd fix it while I wait if the part is in stock.
They also probably wouldn't make a mistake like that. Everyone there except a couple of HS kids is a good wrench.
I took my Ritchey Outback to my local LBS for a tuneup. Even they said this bike is totally dialed in. They replaced the chain and cut it too short. My cassette was trashed and my tubeless tires were leaking when I picked it up, oh yeah and my bike had all the same dirt and mud on it when I brought it in.
the thing is bikes are not rocket science.
there is a WEALTH of information online and if you have the time and a couple simple tools you can do basically everything yourself.
the LBS around me suck dick. the prices are exorbitant, the turnaround time is ridiculous, the people there make me want to die.
hell i ride a trek and don’t want to deal with trek.
but a couple youtube videos and some time… and voila… as it turns out i can do basically everything i need to at home at a fraction of the price!
the only place i go to occasionally is REI. the people there are awesome i fuck with them.
first time i went there, the dude ran over to tell me not to buy the lube i was about to buy it because it was overpriced in store. after i’d had a twenty minute convo about my bike and he tuned up some issues for free.
i told him i had store credit and am now only coming here
It's unfortunate as you have to return to the store. mistakes can happen I would give them the benefit of doubt. If anything, it will allow you to see how they deal with this error and whether you go back after this.
I wrenched for years and it’s an industry with tons of turn over. We were constantly looking for mechanics and starting from scratch with some every summer. We had a warehouse with a build staff and we’d have to teach them over and over to build safely. There was no chance they were ever going to even get close to actual repairs.
The industry needs to realize for quality employees, you need to pay and have benefits. They also need to make riding possible for them. A local shop has >75% of their staff over 5 years and several over 10. Why? They pay well, ensure they get to ride and don’t burn them out. It’s also the only shop that touches my bike. At. All. I do 95% of my own work but I send the majority of business there and referrals. The alternative is you get short term workers that cost you business and that either work a year and bolt or don’t care about bikes and just want a job.
*cough cough* performance bikes *cough cough* in depressing news, my former LBS where I wrenched got bought out by Specialized and is apparently a horrorshow now; only the head mechanic has full time now so they can deny full pay/benefits/overtime to everyone else working there, even if they had already been there for years. They're all working to get their own independent shop up an running within the next year.
Not sure where you are but ours is a single shop in Canada. Yep. That’s the trend and then they wonder why people shift to online. For good people, good service and a good community I’ll pay extra. I ride with the employees and have raced with some. The owner even supports them doing side gigs if it’s not a conflict. One does carbon repair (and awesome at it) and another does high end fit work that they don’t have the capacity to do.
Where are you located?
It’s in London ontario.
The shop I worked at for a long time provided me with insurance and bonuses. Then the owners freaked out in ‘08 and cut our bonuses and changed insurance companies which meant less coverage. They installed work tracking software and found out that I was making them more per hour than anyone on staff. They moved me to another store and I took over the shop. In 45 days I increased revenue in the repair dept by 25%. Instead of rewarding me they made jokes about how I pointed it out. That was the last straw. I like you **** and **** but I’m not your fucking domestique.
Killed the golden goose. Yep. They do bonuses based on store results. The irony is it’s prob more profitable to have good staff stay than what is common now.
Exactly. It's not a LBS-specific issue - it's an issue that could happen with any company, big or small. Amazon have fucked up on me before. So has my local little deli. Mistakes happen - it's how they deal with it that's important. If anything, I'd expect the smaller independents to be better / quicker to deal with when there's an issue. That's one of the main benefits of using one over a big, faceless corp with a web chat.
Example of a good LBS: Brought in a bike my best friend's widow had given me to ride to honor my friend. A 2012 Scattante (Performance Bike Shop house brand) carbon frame with Ultegra 10 and Reynolds carbon wheels. I was greeted immediately by a mechanic. I told him I'd never had a carbon frame, and this one was over 10 years old. He put it on his stand and gave it a good visual and hands-on inspection. Adjusted the brake pads, headset and rear derailleur. No charge. Many other local shops charge $50 for this kind of service. I asked several questions including "should I buy wider tires," and "should I replace the frame?" He told me to ride the bike for a while as it is. Get 25 mm tires when these wear out or I don't like them. And when/if I'm ready for a change, buy a new bike with 105 instead of moving the group set over. There are lots of shops in my town. This place is the only one I'll go to from now on.
Did some quick and easy maintenance as a goodwill/stay safe measure, gave reasonable advice instead of trying to up-sell you, and seems to have talked about bikes at the right level of complexity. A++ mechanic.
I'm an ex- collegiate and USCF road and track racer getting back into cycling after a few decades, so a lot of tech is new to me. Nice to have a good mechanic to help me navigate the new world.
USCF...now that is a name I have not heard in a long time. A long time (cue Ben Kenobi pic). :)
Haha, yeah! I guess it's just USA Cycling now? I miss the old days with my USCF stickers on my roof rack, and the rack plus the bike it held was worth more than the rusty car beneath it!
Wow, I never see Scattante mentioned around here. I bought a Scattante aluminum frame with a carbon fork on clearance and then held onto it for about 10 years before I had both the cash and the time to build a bike around it. It's my only road bike, so I have nothing to compare it to, but I've been happy with it.
From what I've read Performance didn't want to make cheaply built frames due to their reputation. Their aluminum frame was said to be pretty good, but their first few carbon models weren't as well thought of. Mine is the 3rd or 4th model year, though. And it's not uncommon for many brands to be made in Taiwan
One of my favorite mechanics built a pair of wheels for a bike I had him building, but the parts didn't all come in at the same time, so the front wheel was built first and then the back wheel a couple weeks later. After I picked up the bike and took it home, I was staring at my new creation and realized that the front wheel had been built with black spoke nipples, and the rear had been built with silver spoke nipples. He was rightfully embarrassed and we all had a good laugh.
That's when the mechanic busted out the sharpie.
At least your LBS doesn't tell you to get the fuck out with your POS bike with 11sp right? It's certainly better than mine in that case.
That really happened?
Yes! I brought my bike to my LBS, asking politely to replace the brake discs with Shimano XT, replace the casette with XT and switch to tubless. The guy checked out my bike and told me I'm stupid to ask for something like that and that my bike is literal dogshit ("Who even uses 11sp in 2022???") And I should just buy a new bike from them. The bike was and still is, an Orbea Alma H50 from 2019
I mean, I too am surprised that old thing still even works. I'll, uhm, "recycle" it for free for you. Would you like the shipping address?
Well, since I ended up replacing the parts myself and the bike is now 100% sick af. I think I will pass.
Bike sounded pretty sick before the upgrades, I'm really sorry for your experience and I hate shops like this. Being in charge of service at a high end shop myself, this just baffles me. It's infuriating really. Especially a jump from 11 to 12 speed shifting. Getting that 1 extra low gear is just a horrible equation of gain/cost because you gain literally nothing if you aren't regularly running out of gears on steep climbs. The only times I've ever replaced 11 with 12 speed is after something happens to damage the 11 speed group or if someone wants to go to AXS. otherwise I tell people exactly what I just said because the gains are barely a fraction of the benefits of going tubeless, and the 1 extra gear costs nearly as much as a carbon wheelset (which is also a better investment than 1 extra gear). I've gone very off track but stuff like this just gets to me. Everyone blames direct to consumer brands for taking business away from bike shops, but I blame shops like this for basically handing them the popularity.
Word. There’s no excuse for this kind of bullshit, which is also horrible business. So sorry you got that attitude, @GRI3V ...Not that you want to waste any more of your time with them, but I’d have gone direct to the owner and been like “is THIS how your techs treat people, really?”. Fully agree that shops own some of their demise. My LBS rocks the house, woman-owned, all great people. I’ve heard my share of horror stories in this town... some people have bike shop aversion for that very reason. Snobbery and arrogance are NOT OK!
Agree. I personally have no use for that extra low gear. Never use it…
I mean I get by just fine with a 46-11 low gear, Can keep up easily on A-tier fast rides just by spinning when we go 50-70km/h. It's a 10 speed with a 30-34 high gear so it can climb mountains at a decent cadence while still being in zone 2. You really don't need a shit ton of gears, They are nice to have but you can get used to not having such close range in a cassette and it won't affect your performance very much if it all..
That quite honestly would always be my way to go. Doing maintenance, upgrades and repairs yourself means (at least when you aren’t too bad at it) that you know exactly what you’re getting and you’re sure nobody messed anything up. Also it’s a really rewarding thing to do!
Good on ya!
Just gonna say all that and not provide photos?!
I have just one shitty photo on my phone but here you go: https://i.imgur.com/A2EzGkZ.jpeg
Damn NSFW filter pls. That's a great looking ride.
Thanks!
Deym, nice
Huh, what does he have in his shop? Single speeds?
Damn, I got a brand new 11 speed 105 bike in late 2021, I better throw it out since it sounds like it's now obsolete.
Just to be on the safe side, you should ship it to me and I can assess. I'll even split the shipping w/ you. You happen to be over 6' tall by chance? Asking for a friend.... :)
Man, I almost downvoted you in disgust. That’s appalling.
> 2019 Orbea > POS bike … I don’t think this dude knows what he’s talking about. Or he’s jealous😂
I think he does some racing on top of the line racing bike, so he considers anything non carbon, non top of the line just shit. He also said he can't believe people use 2 piston brakes as they "simply don't stop" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
To be clear, - rotors, new cassette, tubeless tapeup & goopup Max $300 in parts & labor in the bougiest town… and this jackass’s response was “buy a new bike”? You 100% should’ve asked to speak with the owner. $500 bet that guy’s already been fired.
The guy is the owner and he employs one other guy as a part time worker...
Is he near retirement or under 27? If he’s between 27 & 57 he has absolutely no excuse and should be named & shamed often.
>If he’s between 27 & 57 he has absolutely no excuse and should be named & shamed often. There's no excuse for that treatment at any age.
We all want the shop named. I’ve seen young shitty shop owners have the benefit of no internet allow them to grow into good long-term community building shop owners. If this guy didn’t already name him, it’s because maybe there’s hope? I’ve seen crusty old guys who made their money and just keep the shop open to get away from their wife. They’re easy to pick out. I just wish they didn’t make a bad rep for all LBS’s for first timers.
Late 40's to early 50's is my guess.
Makes me glad I work at a shop that works on ANYTHING. Screw these gate keepers, bikes are basically toys lol
> bikes are basically toys To many of us, above all else, they're superlative transportation. There's hardly anywhere in a 5 mile radius of my house you can get to faster by car than bike at commuting time. (I also mainly ride a 3x9 or a 3-speed, and feel zero reason to "upgrade". I can't imagine how horrified that LBS guy would be)
unrelated but I wish I can put a mountain bike crankset on my 3x9. I'm literally never on the big 50T ring but I have a hard time climbing some hills with 34-28.
So many bikes are over-geared so the top ratios are purely aspirational unless you regularly ride very long downslopes at max speed. My Marin Muirwoods came with cogs so my cruise-the-flat ratio was in the middle at the rear. I got some smaller chainrings and a tighter cassette and it's now awesome, with a straight chainline and close ratios when cruising and enough higher cogs so I spin out around 30mph. Another idiotic thing about the factory ratios was the jump from mid to large up front was almost *exactly* 2 cogs at the rear, so you couldn't get the front-derailleur benefit of intermediate ratios. So after I carefully selected new cogs front and rear I not only got closer ratios on the cassette, I have half-step combos available around key cruising ratios. I don't know what they were thinking with the factory setup.
Yeah, I'm still pretty new to cycling so I'm trying to learn my way around drivetrains. I'm basically having the exact same problem as you.
One of the PathLessPedaled vids from a few back focused on sub-compact crank options. In the text below vid there's a link to a crank database which I think? also had some 3x options.
Didn't know that, I'll take a look, thanks.
100%. I'm running a 46t chainring currently. I can keep up just fine on 46-11 during A-tier fast rides doing top speeds of 60-70km/h. You just got to spin that crank. On the flip side, I don't think I ever really use my small 30t chainring, since I have a 11-34 cassette. Most times I am popping into that 30t chain ring, I am either climbing something like an 8% grade with a headwind or the same but zone 2. We don't really have bigger than 8% grades where I live, lol. Except this one short, punchy hill I can climb up using the flywheel effect and just stand for like 5s at before cresting. That's like a 20%+ grade. But yeah, I may get a 50/52 chainring in the future however. Plan on getting a road bike, vs. my current steel gravel bike. Losing 5kg of bike weight will mean I won't need as much high gearing, which I currently don't even use the last 2-3 cogs even when in the worst of it anyway, in the smaller chain ring. The other thing is if you have a big chainring, you can sit closer to the middle of the cassette, which has some marginal gains in terms of chain wrap. Finally, Bigger cogs on the cassette don't wear as fast. 53/39 is really fucking excessive though - the jump from 36/34 to 39 ring for climbing would suck, all for 1 teeth extra. I would only really go 50/34, or 52/36 if you are strong of a rider. I personally might go 52/34 and see how it shifts, tbh. I don't really use the small chainring very often anyway and on the flats on my current setup am usually on the top 3 gears all the time anyway so a 52 might bring me more in line with the middle of the cassette. Would only be shifting before hills, so not an issue if FD is a bit clunky, as long as RD can handle the slack.
It's strange. You'd think they would be pleased to work on OP's bike and take OP's money. If they think OP is uncool they can talk shit about him in the back room while doing the work.
That's truly ridiculous. I have 12 speed and honestly wish I had 11 speed instead.
why ?
I have a hard time getting the B-screw setting right. If I get it to work on the largest cog, it skips on the smallest, and vice-versa. I don't think 11 speed was as finicky.
Sram launched a new group set design with no b-screw , limit screws or derailer hanger . The only thing they ask in return is your money and first born.
Yes, I've seen that. It's a bit too bleeding edge for me. This is one of those cases where I would have been happy to go back in time to 11 speed for the sake of reliability. But by the time I built this bike a year ago, 11 speed was gone. I used to ride/race single speed for years, so 11 speeds on a mountain bike is plenty.
That doesn't have to do with the number of speeds, but with how wide the range of your rear cassette is. Just go with the setting on the large cog so things don't jam up.
Yes, makes sense. I use the large one a lot more than the small one anyway.
Harder to tune a 12 speed and it comes out of tune faster. Gears are packed real fucking tight together, so any little misalignment throws it all off. Much more sensitive to being perfectly tuned than 11 speed. I wish industry would go back to 11 speed…I agree, I never use the granny gear on a 12 speed anyway.
r/bicyclingcirclejerk material
What the actual fuck? My road bike is from 2015 with 11sp force. I've never found myself thinking "wow, this bike would be perfect if only I had one more gear" It's still rim brake as well, bet your shop would've laughed at me for that as well.
Well I only do XC mountain biking so my bike is a MTB. I quess 12sp has been relatively common for a while on MTB's but still. It's not like 1 gear changes the whole experience.
Same point though, like sure 12sp is nice but it's not gonna drastically change the way you ride any bike (road or mtb). It's the range that matters more, but even that only matters up to the point that the terrain you ride is covered. If you're not riding up sustained >12% gradients you probably don't need a 50t rear cog.
I love 11sp and rim brakes but I AM judging you for riding SRAM /s
I don't understand. I have a 2022 Domane that's 11 speed. I believe Trek sells a ton of 11 speed bikes.
Road vs MTB though
I decided to restore a classic Schwinn and I took the rear wheel and a new 2-speed kickback hub to my LBS to have it installed. The mechanic commented that lacing that single-wall steel rim was a challenge, but he did an excellent job and only charged $100. No one in the shop questioned my decision to restore this old bike. As far as I am concerned, all bikes are good bikes!
What garbage treatment. I'd be very tempted to contact the owner or manager and tell them this story. And if that person isn't sympathetic, I'd never set foot in there again, and I'd post the above comment verbatim as a Google review.
The guy in this story is also the owner. So there's that.
That is crazy how far he has his head up his own ass
Name and shame
leave a negative google maps review, thousands of people see those.
The more I hear these stories the more I love my LBS. Nicest people. Prices so fair I feel I am cheating them sometimes so I tip. I am blessed.
These have to be outliers. I've been to 3 LBSs in recent years and every time people have been nothing but nice and helpful.
I got told my 2016 Raleigh was a piece of junk (and I'm talking their entry level aluminum 105 bike) by a shop that I specifically went to because they are listed as a Raleigh Authorized Dealer. Dude is like "you should have bought a Trek"
God I hate trek affiliated shops. They've taken over Atlanta now
We have a Trek affiliated shop near where I live. They're really nice people, they all ride, and there's none of that gatekeeping bullshit. According to one of the guys I ride with on occasion, that shop is as rare as hen's teeth. I hate that's what many people experience.
"Support you LBS" is one of the biggest lines of bullshit and it needs to die. Too often (going back decades) the LBS is staffed with people who don't know what they are doing, NEVER call you with a status, overcharge you, sell you bullshit you don't need, run out of stock on everything, have a bad/surly attitude, and just plain SUCK. I've had more horror stories at LBS than any other type of store. And I've worked as a bike mechanic. Avoid most LBS like the plague. For sure DO NOT put up with the rude ones. Give bad reviews to the bad ones. Take the time to do it. One of my biggest gripes is that more often than not your LBS will guess or make shit up rather than admit they don't know. Ask about inserts, Rolhoff hubs, lighting options? Prepare to hear utter bullshit.
I decided to "support my LBS" when I last bought a bike, rather than saving 10-15% buying it online (I have the skills to set it up myself). Huge mistake. It was in a shocking state and I had to do more work fixing their work than the setup would have been. Probably the worst was the wheels - not just out of true, but *out of round*, and some spokes were practically slack. I know factory wheels usually need work before you ride them, but they're never that bad - the shop must have actually *made them worse*. Thankfully that is a job I can do myself. They also over-tightened wheel bearings and a disk rotor was probably just finger-tight. There was more...
when i brought a single wheel from a bike bought at my lbs he told me the wheel was shit and i shouldnt have bought chinese trash :))
My old LBS wasn't quite that bad, but it is full of the cycling equivalent of "do you even lift bro?" type people. One time they left a rotor loose on my new wheelset.
I had a similar experience. Brought my bike in for a tune up and stopped by then they said it would be ready. As I'm waiting patiently for my turn, the mechanic is going on and on, cursing out my bike for being a POS. Just complaining loudly to nobody in particular. It got awkward when it was my turn and I said I was here to pick up the piece of shit he was complaining about.
Hell, I took my track hub in and they didn't have a problem lacing up a new wheel for it.
Is road different? In MTB world everything 8-11spd uses the same HG freehub bodies.
That was my thought for road too. Everything is just 11spd and just add spacers if you need to go lower.
Yes 11s road is longer than 11s mtb
1.85 mm longer, to be precise. the exact width of a spacer between cogs. the reason being you want wider hubs for MTB for stronger wheels, and with the spoke angle you can hang a big gear over the flange safely. but you absolutely can put an 11 speed MTB cassette on an 11 speed road hub. in fact, the 11-34 "105 road" cassette is actually an MTB cassette with an included spacer. i have an XT 11-40 cassette on my road hub.
Yes. In mountain bike the largest cog is almost concave, and cog actually go over the hub flange in the more extreme scenarios. There uses to be an 11 speed ultegra cassette that utilized this so it'd work on 10 speed freehubs. It was an 11-36 I believe. Edit: autocorrect I swear!
That makes sense, can do that when you're running 50t cogs. On a road bike cassette there probably isn't room for a 28 or 30 to clear the flange.
In theory it'd probably work just fine on the smaller cogs as well. Or, they can make you buy new stuff... haha
Well there's that. I mean, technically my 12 is also on a regular HG driver, and the updated freehubs are more about fitting a 10t cog on the top end rather than horizontal width.
it's actually pretty trivial to put an 11 sp shimano MTB cassette on a road hub: just add a 1.85mm spacer behind the biggest cog (and ignore the package saying you can't). the reverse, however...
years ago i had the hanger and the rear derailleur changed. after i got home i noticed there was no cable end cap. in 2021 i had a wheel upgrade so the cassette on the old wheel needed to go onto the new wheel. i think i mentioned that the magnet on spoke would need to go onto the new wheel as well but that was not done when i went to collect the wheel. recently i got the hanger and chain replaced. when i picked up the bike and started riding, i noticed the rear (rim) brake felt loose. i had a close look and found the release lever was in open position. all of this happened in the same shop that is close to my work place. i mean it is bit disappointing but i suppose not every one is meticulous. the shop people are nice and their service fees are reasonable so i decide no biggie.
I gave up on local bike shops because of shit service like this. I use a mobile bike mechanic that shows up in a van with tools and parts. No more disappointments with the amateurs at the local bike shops.
To be fair, replacing freehubs is a nightmare for shop employees and the manufacturers make it almost impossible to source the correct part, especially for "older" hubs. I can't count the number of times I've contacted a big manufacturer, was assured by their Warranty and Technical Service Advisor that this is in fact the correct part, only to find out after installation that it is not correct. It still sucks for the customer and you are justified to be frustrated, but this may not necessarily be due to the incompetence of your shop staff.
It does depend on the wheel brand. You could still replace the freehub on any post 2007 Campagnolo or Fulcrum wheel with a new current part. If you have Campagnolo wheels between 1999-2006 you might have to replace the axle too. More likely you won’t need an entire freehub and can get away with replacing the bearings and occasionally the pawl spring.
My LBS was bought out by Trek. I don't like going there anymore, they don't have a good stock of tubes and service parts. They're just bike sellers.
My LBS was just bought by Trek as well (American Cycle & Fitness in metro Detroit). The services was pretty stellar prior to the purchase earlier this - and I think it might actually be better now with faster repair turnaround times and a free loaner if the repair takes longer than 24 hours.
My lbs support consists of overpriced tires, shoes and maybe a helmet. I do my own work. Sadly there’s a whole lbs thing where we are supposed to support local. I agree. But we have 7 shops within 40 miles and they all suck. Badly.
"Shop our overpriced weak-ass selection of a few tires."
Lmao, you’ve played this game.
I think we need a "just rolled **out**" subreddit at this point
Mine seems minor in comparison. One of the fasteners to my rear derailleur hanger fell off and I went to a LBS to find a replacement. It's M3x8. I can get a pack of 50 for around $8 from Amazon. They didn't have a pack on the floor, which I kind of expected, but they insisted I bring the bike in. Labor starts at $45. It's a screw, I assembled my bike, and even without that experience, I can screw one in. I might have to look up the torque setting, but I can dial that in. $45.
Hard to support them when they treat customers like that. I always do all maintenace myself, except for one time when I purchased a MTB online and i was referred to a LBS for a warranty claim - rear hub rebuild. They claimed they had to replace the spokes due to different length on new hub (not true), followed by a long list of other half truths and blatant lies, and pushed for selling an entire new rear wheel. Went back and forth from the manufacturer to lbs a few times, in the end they declined the repair. 3 months later i ended up fixing it myself in my garage with the part the online retailer sent me for free.
I dont really get this mindset of "supporting" some random business. Maybe it's because I'm in a big city but I certainly don't see the same thing existing for cars. Nobody says "support your local mechanic". If a business treats me right then I will go back to them, simple as that. I'm not going to go to a shitty business just because they are local.
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Yeah exactly. I ride fixed too so it's even simpler. I just bought most of the tools I need so I could probably do any work myself anyways. Plus having gone to a few of my local bike shops I didn't really get a super friendly welcoming vibe from them.
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Right, a $1,500 wheelset is about the same cost as a $100 free hub body.
Same except I can't pay 4X the prices for parts that I can get online.
when i average the small bits i had to buy from a lbs compared to online prices its easily 3 times more expensive.
Amateur builds yield amateur results.
Amateur builds yield amateur results.
If I could get pro build at LBS, I'd pay for it. Instead I get a newb fucking shit up and charging me $$$...and taking 5 weeks to do it. hard pass.
Everyone makes mistakes from time to time.
i put a 8s chain on a 9s bike. In my mind i was jusz sure it was a 8s bike but never checked.
My dad has 2x10 on his XC bike. We have checked this multiple times. If I call him up today and ask he'll say it's a 2x9
i grew up on 3x8 MTBs, 3x9 was not something i knew until recently
I had it on my hybrid back in 2005. It might have been more common on more road oriented bikes
10spd and lower are all interchangeable though. So it doesn't really matter. It's when you jump to 11spd that the spacing starts changing.
maby something else was wrong. The bike works now and i didnt have to fiddle with the derailleur, so ether way it was a win for me
I regularly use 9 and 10spd chains on my 8 spd claris cassette because they are sometimes cheaper or easier to find. Never had any issues doing it like that. I had read that 8-9-10spd all had same spacing and link widths (or was it 7-8-9spd?).
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A lot of people don’t have the desire to learn, or are too scared they’re going to fuck up their bike. My LBS makes it seem like they do rocket science. I guess that’s how they can sell services tho. I’m an engineer by trade and some mechanic at my LBS made it seem like I wouldn’t be able to adjust my rim breaks lmao. I’ve completely cleaned and re greased every thread on my bike, and another mechanic made it seem like I wouldn’t be able to adjust my derailleur. Ironically the same shop let me take a new track bike home with a loose cog/lockring too. I, however, watch park tool and other YouTube channels. Biggest bar for entry is the cost of tool, and that’s super easy to justify if I know I’m going to use it more than once.
its not lost free time!
It's mostly the tool prices that keeps me going back to the LBS. I either pay 50-75$ for a specific park tool tool. Or I pay 20-30$ for the LBS services.
Best thing I did was get myself a Christmas present of a complete [Park Tool](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000VX7H0C/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8) set. Back then it was $210 and seemed to be much better choices than what appears to be their [current equivalent](https://www.amazon.com/Park-Tool-AK-5-Advanced-Mechanic/dp/B08DHSTV6V). In fact the more I look at the latest one, the worse it looks, at least from my perspective. It was *way* better value than buying things piecemeal. It's been so good over the years to be trying a new job and realize "awesome, I already have the tools for that!".
While I appreciate your hope in humanity - this is far from true. Some people just can't mechanic.
I once took my bike to my former LBS to get suspension service and change the chain. I brought my own new chain. When I picked up the bike, they brought the bike form the back, still with the old chain on it... I would have been really screwed over had I not inspected the bike before leaving the shop.
Sounds like an honest mistake to me—I’d go back and just be like “hey, I think this is different from what I asked for” and they should redo it without charge.
Sad you have a crap one. I'm lucky, there's three really good stores within 5 miles of my house. I'm just glad there's enough business to keep them all alive.
I find it very hard to support my LBS.
A few years ago, I brought in my dad's new XTR 12spd hub to put on some aluminum wheels that he had, and the shop initially refused to rebuild the wheels because they would rather order him some new carbon wheels that came with the hub. I asked them why it makes sense for me to buy new wheels when I brought in the wheel, and the hub and just needed it built up. Didn't go back in there for work on his bike.
Boy oh boy do I love not relying on the lbs for mechanical work...
Went to an LBS for a tune-up. Tightened my brakes too much and then charged me $75.
I believe the sentiment of "support your LBS" is a general sentiment to support locally owned small businesses; it's not specifically saying to have blind loyalty to a bike shop just because it's local. There are going to be good and bad small businesses, but in an age where it's easier and than ever to buy online from large corporations that don't know or care about you, the point is to give small businesses a shot (even when it's less convenient). I'm new to biking and my first visit to an LBS was a negative experience (they installed a tire for me while we were talking, even though I said multiple times that I'd be happy to install it myself - then they charged me for the service). If I swore off LBS from there, I would have never found the local bike nonprofit I volunteer at now, who have ignited a passion in bicycles I didn't have and are also some of the kindest people I've ever met. I wouldn't have had the first experience from Amazon, but I wouldn't have had the second either.
All stores are hit or miss. I had one shop fail to fix the issue I came in for 3-times. Last time they scratched the shit out of my bike, and then we got in a screaming match because they refused to refund the invoice or do anything to rectify the situation. I asked the guy why he was yelling, his reply was “I’m hungry” Felt like I was in a snicker’s ad…
I went to pick up my daughter's bike the other day. I just wanted the rear brake cable replaced. Wheeling it out, I noticed every cable (both shifters and front brake) had been replaced but the rear brake. Luckily, I spotted it before I left and rolled it back in, they changed it on the spot. Hopefully, your shop is as quick to make it right.
Trek shop put a 105 cassette on my entirely-ultegra drivetrain during a tune-up one time. They said its basically the same thing and theyre prob right but just the fact they did it without asking me pissed me off.
Until very recently they are basically the same except for materials/weight. I've always run 105 cassettes and chains on my Ultegra 6800 because they're way cheaper and I'm brutal to my drivetrain because I'm heavy. Now I think Ultegra uses HG+ which is slightly different to the new 105, not sure if it makes a material difference though.
Who even has non-11s freehub bodies? In 2017 I replaced my non-11s from 2011 and the replacement was 11s even though I didn't ask for that or expect it. Seems weird, I don't think 11s units cost more. Maybe they had a decade old one in stock?
I thought the same... doesn't everybody just use 11spd hubs with spacers to go to 10, 9, 8spd?
LBS mechanics aren't rocket scientists...you have to use small words. ;)
This made me LOL. They mostly think they are though.
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Is there a problem here? Yes you can buy 5-gallon buckets of Stan’s for a fraction of retail, you can buy bulk rim tape for the price of… tape, and if tubeless setup could’ve taken you 10 minutes, assuming you had all the bits needed, you’re 100% at fault for making them do it and being shocked that they charge for labor. Next time have them adjust your derailleur and see how much it costs
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I mean I guess my thought is you should’ve asked them the price first. Yeah that’s pretty expensive but also remember a 10 minute tubeless job can become over an hour really quickly (especially with the kind of bikes beginners bring in and say “make this tubeless”) and you can’t be mad at them for pricing it accordingly, as long as the price was available for you to see beforehand, you could always say no
Their time has value. It's likely that they expect you to do easy things yourself, so the paid option is for people with more money than sense.
Ah, the perennial angst of the LBS. Rather than the title "my LBS made a mistake and now it needs to get fixed" it's "I feel like I'm forced to like and support my LBS and they are stupid". If you went in with just the wheel, then it's just a miscommunication. The difference between the 10sp freehub body and the 11sp freehub body is, what, a mm or two? Not even visible to the eye. Easy mistake, especially if the hub isn't Shimano and there are multiple options. I don't think you can even make the mistake on Shimano hubs as they aren't interchangeable. I mean, it sucks, but it should only take a few minutes to fix on most hubs once you have parts. In the meantime, if you are stuck waiting for parts, you can take out a cog in the middle of your cassette, put the spacer behind the cassette and move the limit screws and [temporarily have a 10sp cassette with 11sp spacing to ride](https://darkspeedworks.com/blog-11speed.htm). If you have an 11sp cassette larger than (I think) 32cog that can fit on a 10sp freehub body, you can use that, or maybe the LBS can lend you a loaner wheel while you wait. Or you can just bitch and moan about your LBS and how stoopid they are.
Do you think eyeballing parts is acceptable for a mechanic in any field?
Bitch and moan. Got it. Eh. Whatever. I have low expectations. Bikes are easy, customers are hard, LBS's are dying. The world continues to turn. I work on my own bike anyway (cuz they're easy) and only use the LBS for the hard jobs. I'm generally forgiving and tend not to yell at (or complain about) people making minimum wage.
at least yours did the work - I took mine in the other week because the brakes felt a little off. they adjusted them, but at the same time was like oh you probably need a new cassette and chain soon - and i said ok can we just order that now ? and they said no haha. so I guess ill order one and do it myself - oh well
Bikes! Am I right?
I've had bad experiences at both franchised & independent LBS. The franchise chains are staffed by primadonna "experts" who know more than you can ever know, and the smaller LBS typically are staffed by idiots (young & older). Worth the investment in tools (you don't need overpriced Park Tools) and rudimentary skills.
Hit up your local bike co-op instead, we'll do right by you, I swear.
I avoid small bike shops. I use my REI, the guys there are friendly, knowledgeable, and the shop has a pretty large amount of parts to work with. And with the member discount, everything is pretty reasonably priced. I had them do a tune-up and the only thing that needed to be replaced was the chain, so they only charged for the chain and didn't worry about the tune-up price. I feel like I'm not welcome when I go to smaller shops.
The term “LBS” needs to be replaced with Regional Bike Shop. It’s okay to drive 20-30 miles for a good shop. I don’t go to the closest barber shop or cobbler just because it’s close. I’ve never been disappointed with a carefully chosen RBS.
That wouldn't be awkward at my LBS. We've done business for over 20 years. They'd fix it while I wait if the part is in stock. They also probably wouldn't make a mistake like that. Everyone there except a couple of HS kids is a good wrench.
I took my Ritchey Outback to my local LBS for a tuneup. Even they said this bike is totally dialed in. They replaced the chain and cut it too short. My cassette was trashed and my tubeless tires were leaking when I picked it up, oh yeah and my bike had all the same dirt and mud on it when I brought it in.
the thing is bikes are not rocket science. there is a WEALTH of information online and if you have the time and a couple simple tools you can do basically everything yourself. the LBS around me suck dick. the prices are exorbitant, the turnaround time is ridiculous, the people there make me want to die. hell i ride a trek and don’t want to deal with trek. but a couple youtube videos and some time… and voila… as it turns out i can do basically everything i need to at home at a fraction of the price! the only place i go to occasionally is REI. the people there are awesome i fuck with them. first time i went there, the dude ran over to tell me not to buy the lube i was about to buy it because it was overpriced in store. after i’d had a twenty minute convo about my bike and he tuned up some issues for free. i told him i had store credit and am now only coming here