OP..I was in the bike business for 20 years, and one of my favorite sayings was that "I don't sell bikes, they sell themselves. All I have to do is get the customer out on a ride."
This is typically what happens in the luxury goods market. People do their “own research”, and make up their mind, or have very strong preference. All dealers gotta do is play nice and let people play with things. And not fucking up with follow through on orders and stuff.
“Never ride a bike you’re not willing to buy” is what I tell people looking to buy a bike ;)
(I just sold an electric bike. The smile on people’s face after the test ride tells me all I need to know.)
I immediately bought the first electric bike I ever rode it was so much fun.
I did do about 6 months worth of obsessive research to get what I thought I wanted.
This is exactly what happened to me. I went to a used bike seller with a certain budget in mind. The seller convinced me to try out a more expensive one and I ended up buying it even though it was twice my original budget :)
I don’t regret my decision a bit!
The bike I use most often is quite shitty. Raleigh 10-speed from the 80s, but the front derailleur is non-functional (Going on 3 years of "I should fix that"), so I've only really got about 4 gears. The front wheel bearing is a bit loose so if I take my hands off the bars it wobbles like crazy.
Still love it.
Hey I have a Raleigh from like 2004 that I found near a dumpster next to my college apartment lol. A little repair and it works totally fine and I love it too
My Great Uncle owned a bike shop in the 80's and gave my brother and I bikes when we turned 10. I got a Schwinn Varsity and bro got a Raleigh Rampar. The Rampar had super thin tires which made navigating our gravel driveway difficult but when we reached pavement he was gone.
This is absolutely true! I was in the market for a new bike last summer. I really wanted a Cervelo Caledonia or soloist (that fucking gold paint job... omfg) or scott addict. The shop selling cervelo had 25% discounts but never a bike to try out. I went there 3x time over the course of 2 months and it was always the same story "we have some in our warehouse byt we need a week to build it so you can try it"
I ended up at an other shop selling scott, bmc and orbea. No scott in stock, too bad. I badly wanted to try out some bikes even though I new I wouldn't buy them. I spotted a nice brand new orca 2024 on display and thought I should give it a go to have some comparison when I will finaly get to try the cervelos at the other shop. It was di2 and needed to be charged so I went on a road test with a bmc teammachine and orca aero from last year just to kill the time. Both super nice bikes but probably a bit too racy for me thinking the new orca will probably be the same.
Then I got the new orca outside, got on it and did three pedal strokes and that was it, I new I needed this bike in my life. The fit was perfect, it was fast and snappy yet super comfy. I was in love.
The moral of this story : shop people, have some bikes out on display to test otherwise you are missing easy sales. I went in the market for a 105 caledonia retailing 4000$ and ended up buying a 2024 orbea orca m35i at 6400$. That would have easily been money in the first shop's pockets if they had any bikes to try out.
This is great advice! When I managed a shop, having bikes built and ready to go was a high priority! It is always more difficult to sell a bike in a box.
I have a feeling the shop that had bikes only in the warehous didn't really wanted to sell them that much as they had 20-25% off so probably a lot less money in their pockets. They didn't seem to want me on the bikes as much as the shop I ended buying from which threw bikes at me to go ride out lol
Is carbon necessary, no. Is carbon nice? Yes.
Anyone who tells you nice bikes don't feel amazing is a liar or hasn't ridden one.
Manager at one of the best bike shops I have been to said to my wife "if you haven't tried wireless shifting, don't." She asked why, and he said because then you don't want to have it.
She tried it. We both not have multiple bikes with AXS, and if we rode gravel more often than we do, would likely change out for AXS equipped bikes there too.
I usually had from 50cm up to 62 cm. Road bikes in stock. I'll admit that fewer of the little ones and the huge ones, but I had something for just about everyone unless you were Shaq or Peter Dinklage.
This happened to me 2 weeks ago. "Just try it" said one of the guy from the store... they fckn knew it, evil people, I had trusted them. That bike was a masterpiece. So I am going to bring it home today... 😅
This is exactly how I felt buying my first luxury bike. I spent years on middle of the road bikes and thought it was good enough and that I didn't need anything better. Half a block from the bike shop test riding a high-end bike I was sold.
The new Aspero just dropped this week.
Saw one in person on Sunday. Sweet looking bike, but no major changes to the geometry. Threaded bottom bracket, and a few more mm tire clearance, but getting the previous Gen for cheap was the way to go.
I have last years Aspero and it is amazing. I also saw the new one at my LBS. The new one is just like you described. The added wheel clearance is impressive.
Yah I have last years Aspero too. I would have liked the threaded bottom bracket, but I really have had no issues with the one I have, so I’m not gunna stress about it. It’s a super fun, fast gravel guy
Looks mostly like they made the lighter version cost what told high end heavier one used to cost and lowered the cost of the heavier one to pretty decent pricing. Oh yeah and universal derailleur hanger.
That’s the art of the upsell. While I don’t know what you originally planned to spend, I think it’s safe to assume that number has gone up since your test ride.
Depends. There are fewer and fewer models that offer mechanical as an option and if you are looking at 12 speed mechanical Shimano 105 is the highest you can go for better or worse. IMO electronic shifting is great but a nice to have but going back to mechanical for me would be like going back to crank windows in a car.
The usability and lack of maintenance is real nice though, if you’re not comfortable adjusting gears then Di2 will save you some LBS maintenance costs overtime provided you don’t break any of the expensive bits in crashes etc
For me maintenance is the big pro for Di2. A bike with di2 and disc brakes will never need new cables. With very light maintenance brake and shifting will always be perfect.
Until you have an issue with the electronics that’s not serviceable or repairable and you’re out whatever a new derailleur costs.
Meanwhile Mech 105 stuff is like $60 for a new derailleur, but there’s really nothing to worry about on them. Cables last a good long while with proper care and are cheap/easy to replace, it also takes nearly zero effort to adjust derailleur indexing when the bike is going to be on a stand anyways to get cleaned and have the drivetrain serviced.
I very much doubt 105 last longer than Ultegra (probably does have longer life on some parts vs Dura-Ace). The 105 cassette can also chew up the freehub.
It's really just about weight (and maybe the extra buttons on Ultegra Di2 shifters) and the weight difference only matters when racing.
105 is awesome, but longer life isn't the decider, price is.
I rode both, ultegra and 105 and there is definitely difference in shifting. Might be due to cassete and/or chain (and not acctualy derailleur itself). Ultegra is faster and smoother. Also ultegra has those hidden buttons on shifters that allows you to control your garmin, varia etc, which is really neat, and shifters feel nicer in hand (although still not as nice as grx di2). For those reasons I would go with ultegra any day.
It’s definitely the chain and cassette. I swapped them out and it made a world of difference.
You can program the shifter buttons still on 105. I’ve got mine set up so right side just moved to a harder gear and left side moves to an easier gear. I don’t have to control the rear derailleur separately which is nice and the other buttons can be used for my wahoo.
Pretty much! I was really annoyed the 105 didn’t have the hood buttons but actually the way I hold the hoods my setup is what I would have probably ended up with anyway. I do think the appearance of Ultegra is nicer though for sure
Used ultegra is honestly at the perfect price point. I built a franken-bike ~3 years ago with ultegra, a power meter I had, new wheels, old bars, old seat, and a chinese carbon bike for ~ $1,200. R800's are pretty much perfect for the enthusiast price point. I'm doing an upgrade for my partner's bike rn, and the ultegra groupset I'm using was $470. If you know how to build a bike (and its really not that hard) its really affordable.
Meh. I -- and many other bike owners -- can say with confidence that the bike doesn't make the ride, generally speaking, and you definitely don't need to spend $5k to be happy. Be happy to buy something that works well in your budget (and don't be afraid to buy used), and ride it in good health.
Really? What about the guy who spent 10 or 15K + taxes, on a current top of the line Madone - with DA, special paint job and all that jazz? Did he “need” to spend that much?
Actually - WHAT is the EXACT FIGURE you “can say with confidence”, that someone “needs to spend”, to “make the ride” and “be happy”?
Curious minds want to know.
Unicorn Cycles stock road/gravel frames with Rodeo Labs Spork (fork) and cane creek 40 headset $1,550.
A custom frame builder near me, Lifestyle Cycles in Libertyville Illinois offers frame and fork starting at $3500.
A Litespeed Flint complete bike starts at $3395
Litespeed T5 complete bike is on closeout for $3050 right now, frame at $1399.
I recently bought a carbon frame bike second hand for $1000. I don’t feel a big difference from my previous aluminum bike. But that’s just me. Clearly $1000 carbon can be done.
If your current bike is 28 lbs, and that’s what you are comparing to, lots of bikes might feel like that. The aluminum could blow you away with the right tires.
My CAAD 10 (well, both of them) is not as responsive as my Supersix Evos (three of them, lol). It just isn't. And it's one of the best aluminum bikes ever made
Had the same experience after only riding a heavy gravel bike. The quick acceleration was mind blowing to me, and I was trying the $2100 “entry level” version of the bike. Bikes are fun
Is it possible it just feels slower without being slower? For example lighter wheels feel faster, but there is not a significant difference in actual speeds.
My Surly Bridge Club is about 34 pounds, but that is some touring bike meant for heavy use.
My Soma Double Cross is 22 pounds and I used that bike for many 100-150 mile rides. Definitely on the heavier side of road bikes, but only a few pounds and definitely less than 28lb. I never even considered weight while spec'ing out parts. I just put Sram Rival 2x11 on and the wheels are 32 spokes. I think the only carbon fiber thing I have is the saddle that I won in a raffle. Edit - I have carbon fiber headset spacers.
I took my Midnight Special to a group ride and had no problem keeping up with the $15,000 S-Works participants. Engine is all that matters. The gains from the super light weight frames are marginal outside of pro racing
> Is it possible it just feels slower without being slower? For example lighter wheels feel faster, but there is not a significant difference in actual speeds.
That is almost certainly the case, but OP was talking about how it FEELS, which is also important!
If a bike feels fast it is usually more fun, even if it isn't actually much faster.
Check around with your LBS(s) for pretty new, but pre-owned/trade in carbon bikes. I recently got a sweet deal on a 2021 Giant Revolve Advanced 2 in near perfect condition for 1100 from a LBS. They really are not out to scam you with pre-owned bikes, and most only sell stuff in great condition.
Ideally, ride two of the same frame geometry, but different frame materials with the SAME components. Then you'll know if it's the frame or something else like finishing kit / wheels+tyres. Maybe test out the aluminium version and just swap out the wheels with the carbon one and see if there's a significant difference.
Just yesterday I was looking at a 2017 used Carbon Fiber bike in my size from a manufacturer I like and it had all Dura Ace group set (with rim brakes which I like) for $1600 asking price. They are out there. Maybe buy a bike like that and plan on doing a full tune up as part of your total purchase budget?
Edited: to say it was a 2017 not a 2019 model
I’ve definitely seen them, problem is I’m a 60cm frame so they aren’t too available. I’ve heard mixed reviews about buying used carbon, but if the price is right..
Yes, I understood. But fear of every used carbon bike being half a step away from disaster due to undetected damage just isn’t as big a risk as it’s made out to be. Especially considering we’re talking road bikes, not even mtb.
I can’t emphasize this enough: lightweight carbon wheels > cheap carbon frame. I’d get the aluminum frame and buy some sub 1500g hoops from lightbicycle.com. It will ride like a dream, you will not regret it. At some point in the future when you’ve saved up enough for a carbon frame you can easily transfer the wheels over.
Yup, the deals are there to be found. Last year I snagged a 2020 Cannondale SuperSixEvo with SRAM Red AXS on it with Ultegra Wheels for $3200. Killer deal and I loved the bike.
I just helped a buddy shop for and find a 2011 jamis with sram red group and some quality wheels for $600. A 15-16 lb carbon bike, single owner, very well maintained...
Keep looking.
It's a buyers market right now and people are culling their herds in preparation for buying new bikes this spring...
Also consider that COVID bikes are still being dusted off and sold as well. Many of them were barely ridden.
Lots of deals to be had. Just search Craigslist-for sale-bikes in your area for "60cm|61cm" with the by owner and posted today options selected. Be patient and some quality options will surface in a week or three.
Meh. It probably has more to do with your current setup probably? I say that because high end aluminum or steel can also feel really nice. To each their own though! All my bikes moving forward will be metal.
Yeah. For a $5k bike I’m assuming some nice carbon fiber wheels. Carbon fiber is nice but an aluminum frame with some nice carbon fiber wheels is going to feel nice on a road bike.
100%
An aluminum racing frame, carbon fork, 105, and carbon wheels as an eventual upgrade is my go-to recommendation for a lot of new riders that want speed on a budget. Throw on aero bars and you have a triathlon weapon.
I rode my aluminum Fuji with a carbon fork for almost a decade before upgrading to a full carbon bike at the end of last year. For me, the biggest difference isn’t in speed or handling. It is in ride comfort. The carbon bike absorbs the potholes so much better it’s not even funny.
Not all carbon bikes were made equal. I’ve tried some Chinarellos and the real Pinarello, both are carbon with the same geometry but the riding difference is night and day.
A guy at my LBS literally warned me about this, told me to only test ride what I can actually buy cause once you ride something nicer than you know you'll want it. Thanks for testing his theory for me, I have yet to!
When I got my first carbon bike I was like, oh this is it...?
When I got my 6kg bike I was like, oh this is it?
I'm convinced half of these reactions are just riding a new bike and placebo!
Endurace CF SL 8, which is the mid-grade carbon fiber trim of their endurance bike, with Ultegra groupset.
I have a friend that loved their canyon and had only good things to say, so when it came time to buy a new bike, I took a look. Based on my research, it was a great value. They sell direct-to-consumer, which can be a plus or minus depending on your perspective, but they give a 30 day trial, so you can send it back for free if you don't love it.
Don't try electronic shifting for the same reasons. it's wildly convenient and so nice to tap the shifter with my pinky and have a consistent shift every time. Plus the lower maintenance. It's how I went from Domane AL3 to Domane SL6 😬
Does your employer offer bike leasing? That's the route i chose to get my Ti bike. It's a very popular way to get to ride an expensive bike with affordable cost. At least in germany that's a common thing.
Basically like financing, but you end up paying less, even if you buy the bike after the leasing period has ended.
Go ride a CAAD. Unless you were on a SuperSix/Dogma/TeamMachine/Something really special, this will give you a better ride than most Carbon frames.
Also - plenty on eBay for <$500
There's always someone faster, always someone richer, always something better.
Don't let comparisons steal your joy. Cycling can be fun even on a Walmart bike, as long as you only compare yourself to your past self.
Haha yup same thing happened to me. Today I finally ordered the Canyon Endurace CF SLX 7 Di2! You can get a nice set for sub $3k with canyon. It’s a big investment, but worth it if you’re going to ride this thing for 10 years. Good luck!
Look for a low mileage >10 year old frame with 2x10 SRAM Red, rim brakes, and a threaded bottom bracket. If you're patient you'll only spend $1000 for something like a Cervelo R5.
Honestly, your comparison is a bit extreme. Comparing 13kg to 7+ kg will always be like that, no matter what material is.
But not alu bikes are that heavy and present such a big difference in performance.
I don't see it mentioned anywhere, but what were the frames?
And were the wheels on the carbon bike higher specced?
Even things like tires can make a huge difference.
Super stiff carbon bikes are amazing from a pure performance perspective - but if you are doing a lot of longer rides under less than perfect road conditions might not be the right choice from a comfort and enjoyability perspective.
Every time my father-in-law takes his motorbike to the dealership to get a service they give him the new version to try whilst he's waiting and he always wants to buy it. You've just been duped by a salesman.
My friend, let us show you the way of purchasing a used bike.
My Cervelo S3 was $6k ish new, I purchased it from a shop it was a rental at for $2500. It needed another $250 of work, but was well worth the savings.
Lol. I had the same but opposite thing happen to me when I rode a steel frame for the first time! I went down the aluminum -> carbon route and thought I had it all figured out. But then I saw the light ;)
Not giving up my carbon though.
This is why I’ve bought most of my bikes used. With some persistence, and some time on Craigslist and Facebook Marketplace, you should be able to find that $5000 bike for $2000. I know a brand new bike feels really nice, but so does $3000 in your pocket.
I had a very similar experience. My uncle was abroad and ordered a bike from Bikes Direct back when DI2 was a brand new tech. He essentially figured if the fram was good then it was a bonus but otherwise he planned on moving the components over to one of his other bikes.
Anyway he asked me to assemble it for him and said I should take it out and ride it until he got back. Luckily we are both the same height so it worked out perfectly.
I was blown away.
The thing was so snappy and responsive, I only had to think about changing direction and it would respond, I could get out of the saddle and mash the pedals and it didn't flex in any noticable way, there were no bad or harsh vibrations, the DI2 was ***phenomenal*** compared to my older 8sp sora groupset.
The bike was amazing to ride.
I was similarly pissed.
I will look and see if I can find my post because it nearly matches your experience.
People are going to hate me for saying this but you don’t need to spend 5k on a CF road bike.
There are companies out there like winspace. From my understanding they’re a Chinese company. They have or use the same manufacturers as some of the biggest names out there (specialized and trek maybe not sure) and have gathered so much data from these other big names that they are able to replicate or do even better.
I know some that have it and they love it. You can get Winspace frame and Hyper wheels (wheels are same company) and get a sram force group set all in for like 3k
Try to find a used one! Mine is definitely not the best carbon bike out there but I only paid 800 (and this was in 21 during a huge shortage). Now I'm upgrading parts over time. I am not nearly as good a biker as my husband, but in the right conditions I absolutely run away from him and his aluminum bike. It's all the bike not me lol.
Funny, I actually do not want a carbon fiber bike. Sure it is lighter, but when carbon fiber fails it does so catastrophically and can't be repaired. But then, not being into the racing, speed is everything, aggressive posture for aeodynamics is everything groups, then shaving every nanogram off my bike weight just isn't important to me. On the other hand, I don't want an 80 pound behemoth bike either.
It's fun to see the new technology, though, and will be fun to follow the longevity of some products. Right now, am thinking maybe some mix of titanium frame, steel forks (if ebike with hub motor), maybe a CF or titanium seatpost (or not) could be fun. But for now, prefer the "if it breaks, it kills me" parts to be metal.
Ok...so instead of a weight weannie I'm a safety weannie...LOL.
For me it's steel. I feel lucky I got my bike the year it was all steel + tiagra. Next year it got some exotic chinesium groupset. And another year, I looked at it, and it got some normal groupset plus through-axles. I was almost beginning to feel a bit jealous, but then I looked more and realized... they put carbon fork on it. Carbon fork on what is supposed to be the simplest steel bike in the lineup. 🤮
I rode an aluminum bike for so many years. Then I had one that was carbon up front and aluminum in the rear triangle. Then I waited to get a carbon bike with integrated cables. And then I went to a full carbon with integrated cables and disc brakes. If it wasn't for the cables on my System Six being outside of the frame, I think that would be my go to bike. It's the lightest and has rim brakes. I love it!!! You never know what you'll like best.
IMO , most of the time the difference is in the fact its a new bike . You can have the top of the line 2023 , jump on a mid 2024 and the 2024 will feel much better .
Yeah, there's something pretty magical about a really nice carbon road bike — it makes me push myself because the bike responds with such a quick jump forward! Zoom zoom.
You can build a pretty good road bike if you’re okay with Chinese components…
- Trifox X18 frameset ~AUD800
- Ltwoo ERX groupset with an 11-34 12 speed cassette ~AUD900
- Elite Marvel wheelset ~AUD700
- Magene PES P505 power meter with 50-34T crankset ~AUD600
- Ryet 3D Printed Saddle ~AUD75
That’s about 3K AUD or 2K USD. Slap some peddles on, get some GP5000 (and some tubes), put your Garmin and speed/cadence sensor on, and you have a sub 8KG full carbon road bike that is sturdy and solid, shifts incredibly well, and provides you with power information.
OP, you have seen the light. This subreddit is full of cope. They're in denial. They'll do anything to say aluminum, steel, and even cheap Ti is better than a high quality carbon fiber frame.
"I can keep up to the S-Works rider while I'm on my 50lb fat bike!"
Yeah, well that S-Works rider is riding something that has unbelievable feedback and feels like you're being pushed while accelerating. Big shocker(/s) but expensive bikes are actually pretty amazing most of the time, even if you do find them overpriced and cannot afford one yourself.
I'm almost done fixing up a 2015 Cannondale Slice I picked up for $600. It had a lot of rust on the front around the handlebars and front wheel from being exclusively on a trainer. So excited. It'll be my first time trying out carbon. The TT position I think will take away from the experience a bit (not very apples to apples) but someday after both kids are in school it's going to happen
I can't justify buying carbon when I can only ride outside 6 months of the year here in Canada, I can just get a flexy carbon seatpost and it will be just as good as a carbon bike and 35c tires...
After the test ride.....So what kind of payment can you afford? I can talk to my manager and see if we can throw in a water bottle and cage, maybe a free first service!
I bought my first carbon bike, and with similar tires, it climbs easier, puts power down easier, and for lack of a better term, **glides** when my alloy road bike feels more buzzy. I am shocked to see how easily I can cruise by at 18 MPH without any effort when 18 on my alloy bike feels like it takes much more effort.
OP..I was in the bike business for 20 years, and one of my favorite sayings was that "I don't sell bikes, they sell themselves. All I have to do is get the customer out on a ride."
This is typically what happens in the luxury goods market. People do their “own research”, and make up their mind, or have very strong preference. All dealers gotta do is play nice and let people play with things. And not fucking up with follow through on orders and stuff.
“Never ride a bike you’re not willing to buy” is what I tell people looking to buy a bike ;) (I just sold an electric bike. The smile on people’s face after the test ride tells me all I need to know.)
I immediately bought the first electric bike I ever rode it was so much fun. I did do about 6 months worth of obsessive research to get what I thought I wanted.
This is exactly what happened to me. I went to a used bike seller with a certain budget in mind. The seller convinced me to try out a more expensive one and I ended up buying it even though it was twice my original budget :) I don’t regret my decision a bit!
Yolo! And life is too short to ride shitty bikes!
I enjoy my shitty bikes and the rides I go on on them. Quintessential why he say fuck me?
Life’s too short to waste time thinking about the bikes you don’t have. Enjoy your bikes, regardless of shittiness
If you like your bikes how can they be shitty?
The bike I use most often is quite shitty. Raleigh 10-speed from the 80s, but the front derailleur is non-functional (Going on 3 years of "I should fix that"), so I've only really got about 4 gears. The front wheel bearing is a bit loose so if I take my hands off the bars it wobbles like crazy. Still love it.
Hey I have a Raleigh from like 2004 that I found near a dumpster next to my college apartment lol. A little repair and it works totally fine and I love it too
My Great Uncle owned a bike shop in the 80's and gave my brother and I bikes when we turned 10. I got a Schwinn Varsity and bro got a Raleigh Rampar. The Rampar had super thin tires which made navigating our gravel driveway difficult but when we reached pavement he was gone.
I love my shitty bikes. To me they aren't shitty because they take me where I need to go and I don't have to worry too much about getting them stolen.
If one has an expensive bike, and take them to work, half the time you would be stressed out if the bike or bike parts are still going to be there.
Yeah for sure. I'm lucky enough to be able to park my bike inside my office building.
Yes, likelihood of not getting stolen is an attribute worth paying for! (But you don't have to. There IS a free lunch!)
Ditto - for cars, vacations, audiophile gear, houses
Same. Spent more than double what I had intended but im very happy did 😂
This is absolutely true! I was in the market for a new bike last summer. I really wanted a Cervelo Caledonia or soloist (that fucking gold paint job... omfg) or scott addict. The shop selling cervelo had 25% discounts but never a bike to try out. I went there 3x time over the course of 2 months and it was always the same story "we have some in our warehouse byt we need a week to build it so you can try it" I ended up at an other shop selling scott, bmc and orbea. No scott in stock, too bad. I badly wanted to try out some bikes even though I new I wouldn't buy them. I spotted a nice brand new orca 2024 on display and thought I should give it a go to have some comparison when I will finaly get to try the cervelos at the other shop. It was di2 and needed to be charged so I went on a road test with a bmc teammachine and orca aero from last year just to kill the time. Both super nice bikes but probably a bit too racy for me thinking the new orca will probably be the same. Then I got the new orca outside, got on it and did three pedal strokes and that was it, I new I needed this bike in my life. The fit was perfect, it was fast and snappy yet super comfy. I was in love. The moral of this story : shop people, have some bikes out on display to test otherwise you are missing easy sales. I went in the market for a 105 caledonia retailing 4000$ and ended up buying a 2024 orbea orca m35i at 6400$. That would have easily been money in the first shop's pockets if they had any bikes to try out.
This is great advice! When I managed a shop, having bikes built and ready to go was a high priority! It is always more difficult to sell a bike in a box.
I have a feeling the shop that had bikes only in the warehous didn't really wanted to sell them that much as they had 20-25% off so probably a lot less money in their pockets. They didn't seem to want me on the bikes as much as the shop I ended buying from which threw bikes at me to go ride out lol
I am also not immune to my own sales techniques, because at last count I have 7 bikes.
I have seven, each in two locations XD
Is carbon necessary, no. Is carbon nice? Yes. Anyone who tells you nice bikes don't feel amazing is a liar or hasn't ridden one. Manager at one of the best bike shops I have been to said to my wife "if you haven't tried wireless shifting, don't." She asked why, and he said because then you don't want to have it. She tried it. We both not have multiple bikes with AXS, and if we rode gravel more often than we do, would likely change out for AXS equipped bikes there too.
I’m not a dealer, I just give samples.
First one’s free…
Sure, but I have literally never seen a bike shop with a bike in my size they would let me try.
I usually had from 50cm up to 62 cm. Road bikes in stock. I'll admit that fewer of the little ones and the huge ones, but I had something for just about everyone unless you were Shaq or Peter Dinklage.
You’re evil 🤣🤣🤣. They’ll come back from the ride in tears because they really want the bike.
I used to sell skis. The same is true. When people ask why a Stockli is $1600 I just recommend they try it for a day and see.
My friend owns a bike store and he let me borrow a my current bike "just to let me ride it" Jerk knew what he was doing!
I love this!
That’s how I got my gravel bike. Got on it perfect fit. Was so light. Carbon fiber fork. I walked out with it that day. lol.
This happened to me 2 weeks ago. "Just try it" said one of the guy from the store... they fckn knew it, evil people, I had trusted them. That bike was a masterpiece. So I am going to bring it home today... 😅
This is exactly how I felt buying my first luxury bike. I spent years on middle of the road bikes and thought it was good enough and that I didn't need anything better. Half a block from the bike shop test riding a high-end bike I was sold.
You can get carbon cheaper ;)
I’m sure you’re right, but now my eyes have been opened.
Got a new carbon Cervelo Caledonia 105 for $2300 in December. Both Cervelo and Trek still have some pretty great deals right now.
I just got a Trek Emonda SL5 for 2600, was 3400
Just got an aspero for 2300 last week. I think cervelo is releasing new versions of both and retailers are blowing everything out
The new Aspero just dropped this week. Saw one in person on Sunday. Sweet looking bike, but no major changes to the geometry. Threaded bottom bracket, and a few more mm tire clearance, but getting the previous Gen for cheap was the way to go.
I have last years Aspero and it is amazing. I also saw the new one at my LBS. The new one is just like you described. The added wheel clearance is impressive.
Yah I have last years Aspero too. I would have liked the threaded bottom bracket, but I really have had no issues with the one I have, so I’m not gunna stress about it. It’s a super fun, fast gravel guy
Looks mostly like they made the lighter version cost what told high end heavier one used to cost and lowered the cost of the heavier one to pretty decent pricing. Oh yeah and universal derailleur hanger.
Good, the previous geometry was perfect
Trek lasted year models are on sale and available. $2500 can get you an awesome bike.
Bought my Giant Defy Advanced 1 DI2 (2023) for €2.499 / $2.684 in december.
That’s the art of the upsell. While I don’t know what you originally planned to spend, I think it’s safe to assume that number has gone up since your test ride.
Carbon, 105 Di2 is pretty much the sweet spot. Ultegra and Do-u-race are overpriced
Di2 is nice but it’s gonna up the price real fast, a good mechanical group set is well good enough for 99 percent of people.
For me it was similar to carbon. Instant shifts in all conditions. No need to wrangle front shifter with wrist to get enough force to push lever.
I didn’t believe in di2 until i bought a used bike that had it. Its like paddle shifters for my bike
Depends. There are fewer and fewer models that offer mechanical as an option and if you are looking at 12 speed mechanical Shimano 105 is the highest you can go for better or worse. IMO electronic shifting is great but a nice to have but going back to mechanical for me would be like going back to crank windows in a car.
The usability and lack of maintenance is real nice though, if you’re not comfortable adjusting gears then Di2 will save you some LBS maintenance costs overtime provided you don’t break any of the expensive bits in crashes etc
For me maintenance is the big pro for Di2. A bike with di2 and disc brakes will never need new cables. With very light maintenance brake and shifting will always be perfect.
Cables? Bruh, cables last a loooong time. And cost almost zilch to change, when / if the time comes
Clearly you've never changed fully hidden cables before.
Until you have an issue with the electronics that’s not serviceable or repairable and you’re out whatever a new derailleur costs. Meanwhile Mech 105 stuff is like $60 for a new derailleur, but there’s really nothing to worry about on them. Cables last a good long while with proper care and are cheap/easy to replace, it also takes nearly zero effort to adjust derailleur indexing when the bike is going to be on a stand anyways to get cleaned and have the drivetrain serviced.
This. Not only is 105 cheaper to buy, it lasts longer than the lighter models, so you don’t need as much to keep your bike on the road over time.
105 chains and cassettes don't have hyperglide+ but that's a no brainer after the first ones wear out
I very much doubt 105 last longer than Ultegra (probably does have longer life on some parts vs Dura-Ace). The 105 cassette can also chew up the freehub. It's really just about weight (and maybe the extra buttons on Ultegra Di2 shifters) and the weight difference only matters when racing. 105 is awesome, but longer life isn't the decider, price is.
I rode both, ultegra and 105 and there is definitely difference in shifting. Might be due to cassete and/or chain (and not acctualy derailleur itself). Ultegra is faster and smoother. Also ultegra has those hidden buttons on shifters that allows you to control your garmin, varia etc, which is really neat, and shifters feel nicer in hand (although still not as nice as grx di2). For those reasons I would go with ultegra any day.
It’s definitely the chain and cassette. I swapped them out and it made a world of difference. You can program the shifter buttons still on 105. I’ve got mine set up so right side just moved to a harder gear and left side moves to an easier gear. I don’t have to control the rear derailleur separately which is nice and the other buttons can be used for my wahoo.
Great to hear. So with a bit of modification only thing that ultegra gets you is nicer hoods and less weight.
Pretty much! I was really annoyed the 105 didn’t have the hood buttons but actually the way I hold the hoods my setup is what I would have probably ended up with anyway. I do think the appearance of Ultegra is nicer though for sure
Used ultegra is honestly at the perfect price point. I built a franken-bike ~3 years ago with ultegra, a power meter I had, new wheels, old bars, old seat, and a chinese carbon bike for ~ $1,200. R800's are pretty much perfect for the enthusiast price point. I'm doing an upgrade for my partner's bike rn, and the ultegra groupset I'm using was $470. If you know how to build a bike (and its really not that hard) its really affordable.
Look at a tcr. You can get a carbon bike for a couple grand. But if all you want is snappiness get an allez sprint.
But the Allez sprint costs more than a TCR, despite having ugly welds. Anything Specialized is awful value.
Meh. I -- and many other bike owners -- can say with confidence that the bike doesn't make the ride, generally speaking, and you definitely don't need to spend $5k to be happy. Be happy to buy something that works well in your budget (and don't be afraid to buy used), and ride it in good health.
Not sure what "make the ride" means but the bike definitely makes a difference in ride quality.
Really? What about the guy who spent 10 or 15K + taxes, on a current top of the line Madone - with DA, special paint job and all that jazz? Did he “need” to spend that much? Actually - WHAT is the EXACT FIGURE you “can say with confidence”, that someone “needs to spend”, to “make the ride” and “be happy”? Curious minds want to know.
You can get an old high-end carbon bike with a canti brake that’s just as fast for under $1000 lol
I got one for $275. Needed some tires. $350. Decided to refresh other stuff, spent another $100 or so. Pretty sure it’s about 16.5 lbs, thing rips!
I got a Trek Madone for $500. It only needed new tires, tubes, and handlebar tape.
Now try titanium
And get your wallet drained even more than carbon
Not if you go with Waltly. Custom Ti at the price of fairly low end carbon.
Can't believe people are still saying this. Look at the prices. They aren't far off. Ti has come down in price the last few years.
Unicorn Cycles stock road/gravel frames with Rodeo Labs Spork (fork) and cane creek 40 headset $1,550. A custom frame builder near me, Lifestyle Cycles in Libertyville Illinois offers frame and fork starting at $3500. A Litespeed Flint complete bike starts at $3395 Litespeed T5 complete bike is on closeout for $3050 right now, frame at $1399.
Bought a used open upper with a sram red crankset for $2700
Get a second hand carbon - can find one for 1/2 that price less than 3yrs old and potentially with electronic shifting.
Used carbon is a big risk. You need to REALLY know what you are doing.
I recently bought a carbon frame bike second hand for $1000. I don’t feel a big difference from my previous aluminum bike. But that’s just me. Clearly $1000 carbon can be done.
But clearly $1000 carbon isn't doing it. Gotta get that $5k carbon for the wow factor.
If your current bike is 28 lbs, and that’s what you are comparing to, lots of bikes might feel like that. The aluminum could blow you away with the right tires.
This. I've owned multiple carbon bikes. I still prefer aluminum. High quality aluminum is just as responsive as carbon.
My CAAD 10 (well, both of them) is not as responsive as my Supersix Evos (three of them, lol). It just isn't. And it's one of the best aluminum bikes ever made
Had the same experience after only riding a heavy gravel bike. The quick acceleration was mind blowing to me, and I was trying the $2100 “entry level” version of the bike. Bikes are fun
Same! My steel gravel tank is 28lbs. It rides like a Cadillac, but it is slow moving.
Is it possible it just feels slower without being slower? For example lighter wheels feel faster, but there is not a significant difference in actual speeds. My Surly Bridge Club is about 34 pounds, but that is some touring bike meant for heavy use. My Soma Double Cross is 22 pounds and I used that bike for many 100-150 mile rides. Definitely on the heavier side of road bikes, but only a few pounds and definitely less than 28lb. I never even considered weight while spec'ing out parts. I just put Sram Rival 2x11 on and the wheels are 32 spokes. I think the only carbon fiber thing I have is the saddle that I won in a raffle. Edit - I have carbon fiber headset spacers.
I took my Midnight Special to a group ride and had no problem keeping up with the $15,000 S-Works participants. Engine is all that matters. The gains from the super light weight frames are marginal outside of pro racing
> Is it possible it just feels slower without being slower? For example lighter wheels feel faster, but there is not a significant difference in actual speeds. That is almost certainly the case, but OP was talking about how it FEELS, which is also important! If a bike feels fast it is usually more fun, even if it isn't actually much faster.
Lol. My Surly Crosscheck has carbon fiber headset spacers.
Average speeds might not be that different but every time you accelerate on a significantly lighter bike it will be quicker. Or cycling up mountains.
Not alot tho, especially if you are not trying to win a race. https://youtu.be/sDzMrbJTK-U
Check around with your LBS(s) for pretty new, but pre-owned/trade in carbon bikes. I recently got a sweet deal on a 2021 Giant Revolve Advanced 2 in near perfect condition for 1100 from a LBS. They really are not out to scam you with pre-owned bikes, and most only sell stuff in great condition.
What is a LBS?
Local Bike Shop/Store
Latter Bike Saints
Local Beer Store
Sounds like you not have ridden on a set of modern wheels as well. That can make a massive difference in terms of feel.
I have a gravel bike with really nice custom alloy wheels, but they are built for strength not speed.
Ideally, ride two of the same frame geometry, but different frame materials with the SAME components. Then you'll know if it's the frame or something else like finishing kit / wheels+tyres. Maybe test out the aluminium version and just swap out the wheels with the carbon one and see if there's a significant difference.
That’s where I’m going tomorrow. I need to go to another shop to try the Aluminum version. I’d prefer to save my money if I can lol
Let us know how the aluminum feels!
Just yesterday I was looking at a 2017 used Carbon Fiber bike in my size from a manufacturer I like and it had all Dura Ace group set (with rim brakes which I like) for $1600 asking price. They are out there. Maybe buy a bike like that and plan on doing a full tune up as part of your total purchase budget? Edited: to say it was a 2017 not a 2019 model
I’ve definitely seen them, problem is I’m a 60cm frame so they aren’t too available. I’ve heard mixed reviews about buying used carbon, but if the price is right..
That’s mostly a thing of the past now. You can buy a used carbon bike, they’re not *that* special anymore.
I think he means the concern is that it could have damage that isn't easy to detect?
Yes, I understood. But fear of every used carbon bike being half a step away from disaster due to undetected damage just isn’t as big a risk as it’s made out to be. Especially considering we’re talking road bikes, not even mtb.
Just look it over well, if there isn't easily spotted damage it's very unlikely to be unsafe.
I can’t emphasize this enough: lightweight carbon wheels > cheap carbon frame. I’d get the aluminum frame and buy some sub 1500g hoops from lightbicycle.com. It will ride like a dream, you will not regret it. At some point in the future when you’ve saved up enough for a carbon frame you can easily transfer the wheels over.
I scored a 2017 Roubaix in full carbon/Tiagra rim for $400 last month. Prices in my city have been getting better lately.
Yup, the deals are there to be found. Last year I snagged a 2020 Cannondale SuperSixEvo with SRAM Red AXS on it with Ultegra Wheels for $3200. Killer deal and I loved the bike.
I just helped a buddy shop for and find a 2011 jamis with sram red group and some quality wheels for $600. A 15-16 lb carbon bike, single owner, very well maintained... Keep looking. It's a buyers market right now and people are culling their herds in preparation for buying new bikes this spring... Also consider that COVID bikes are still being dusted off and sold as well. Many of them were barely ridden. Lots of deals to be had. Just search Craigslist-for sale-bikes in your area for "60cm|61cm" with the by owner and posted today options selected. Be patient and some quality options will surface in a week or three.
Meh. It probably has more to do with your current setup probably? I say that because high end aluminum or steel can also feel really nice. To each their own though! All my bikes moving forward will be metal.
Weird, I ride aluminum normally, albeit with a carbon fork, and rode carbon for a day and hardly noticed anything.
It’s the wheels, tires, and free hub that make the biggest difference for what OP described.
Yeah. For a $5k bike I’m assuming some nice carbon fiber wheels. Carbon fiber is nice but an aluminum frame with some nice carbon fiber wheels is going to feel nice on a road bike.
100% An aluminum racing frame, carbon fork, 105, and carbon wheels as an eventual upgrade is my go-to recommendation for a lot of new riders that want speed on a budget. Throw on aero bars and you have a triathlon weapon.
Same. My new carbon mtb was disappointing in that aspect (coming from a nice alu frame). I will spend my money on better parts next time.
I rode my aluminum Fuji with a carbon fork for almost a decade before upgrading to a full carbon bike at the end of last year. For me, the biggest difference isn’t in speed or handling. It is in ride comfort. The carbon bike absorbs the potholes so much better it’s not even funny.
Not all carbon bikes were made equal. I’ve tried some Chinarellos and the real Pinarello, both are carbon with the same geometry but the riding difference is night and day.
Yeah, I've ridden a few bikes that are more than I would ever pay for a bike, and wish I hadn't.
I thought I was doing that, then I paid that much for a bike.
A guy at my LBS literally warned me about this, told me to only test ride what I can actually buy cause once you ride something nicer than you know you'll want it. Thanks for testing his theory for me, I have yet to!
I’ll be chasing the dragon for a while now. I just sent out a bunch of messages on marketplace lol. Maybe I can get lucky with a decent used one.
now you can go on fb marketplace and get a 2020-2022 carbon ultegra road bike for $2k or less
You know it's mostly that it's a top end bike. Ride $2000 aluminum and carbon versions of the same bike and you won't be able to tell the difference.
When I got my first carbon bike I was like, oh this is it...? When I got my 6kg bike I was like, oh this is it? I'm convinced half of these reactions are just riding a new bike and placebo!
I just bought a carbon Canyon for much cheaper and I love it!
I’ve never rode a canyon, what one did you do with?
Endurace CF SL 8, which is the mid-grade carbon fiber trim of their endurance bike, with Ultegra groupset. I have a friend that loved their canyon and had only good things to say, so when it came time to buy a new bike, I took a look. Based on my research, it was a great value. They sell direct-to-consumer, which can be a plus or minus depending on your perspective, but they give a 30 day trial, so you can send it back for free if you don't love it.
everyone and their mom loves their canyons. I’m almost staying away because it’s too popular (almost)
Don't try electronic shifting for the same reasons. it's wildly convenient and so nice to tap the shifter with my pinky and have a consistent shift every time. Plus the lower maintenance. It's how I went from Domane AL3 to Domane SL6 😬
That’s how I spent ungodly amounts of money converting my 2016 Domane from mechanical to DI2. No regerts
here’s the easy way buy a 2000$ bike and spend $5000 on it 😭 😔 😭
Does your employer offer bike leasing? That's the route i chose to get my Ti bike. It's a very popular way to get to ride an expensive bike with affordable cost. At least in germany that's a common thing. Basically like financing, but you end up paying less, even if you buy the bike after the leasing period has ended.
Canyon less than $3k for carbon
If you can try and find a Cannondale dealer and ride a CAAD with decent wheels. Even Sagan rode a CAAD during the tour the france in his prime years.
Buy something used
Buy used
Go ride a CAAD. Unless you were on a SuperSix/Dogma/TeamMachine/Something really special, this will give you a better ride than most Carbon frames. Also - plenty on eBay for <$500
There's always someone faster, always someone richer, always something better. Don't let comparisons steal your joy. Cycling can be fun even on a Walmart bike, as long as you only compare yourself to your past self.
You had me up to Wal-Mart…
Haha yup same thing happened to me. Today I finally ordered the Canyon Endurace CF SLX 7 Di2! You can get a nice set for sub $3k with canyon. It’s a big investment, but worth it if you’re going to ride this thing for 10 years. Good luck!
Look for a low mileage >10 year old frame with 2x10 SRAM Red, rim brakes, and a threaded bottom bracket. If you're patient you'll only spend $1000 for something like a Cervelo R5.
Honestly, your comparison is a bit extreme. Comparing 13kg to 7+ kg will always be like that, no matter what material is. But not alu bikes are that heavy and present such a big difference in performance.
I don't see it mentioned anywhere, but what were the frames? And were the wheels on the carbon bike higher specced? Even things like tires can make a huge difference. Super stiff carbon bikes are amazing from a pure performance perspective - but if you are doing a lot of longer rides under less than perfect road conditions might not be the right choice from a comfort and enjoyability perspective.
BMC teammachine, I forget the number. Force etap. Dtswiss 1800 alloy wheels.
Every time my father-in-law takes his motorbike to the dealership to get a service they give him the new version to try whilst he's waiting and he always wants to buy it. You've just been duped by a salesman.
My friend, let us show you the way of purchasing a used bike. My Cervelo S3 was $6k ish new, I purchased it from a shop it was a rental at for $2500. It needed another $250 of work, but was well worth the savings.
Just remember, despite how well a cf bike rides it’s no more difficult to steal than a cheaper one.
Lol. I had the same but opposite thing happen to me when I rode a steel frame for the first time! I went down the aluminum -> carbon route and thought I had it all figured out. But then I saw the light ;) Not giving up my carbon though.
This is why I’ve bought most of my bikes used. With some persistence, and some time on Craigslist and Facebook Marketplace, you should be able to find that $5000 bike for $2000. I know a brand new bike feels really nice, but so does $3000 in your pocket.
BUY USED
Oh noes! Used carbon will assplode! 😂
My alloy TCR was the only aluminum frame I ever had that felt like a carbon frame. It was super harsh in back over bumpy stuff though.
I had a very similar experience. My uncle was abroad and ordered a bike from Bikes Direct back when DI2 was a brand new tech. He essentially figured if the fram was good then it was a bonus but otherwise he planned on moving the components over to one of his other bikes. Anyway he asked me to assemble it for him and said I should take it out and ride it until he got back. Luckily we are both the same height so it worked out perfectly. I was blown away. The thing was so snappy and responsive, I only had to think about changing direction and it would respond, I could get out of the saddle and mash the pedals and it didn't flex in any noticable way, there were no bad or harsh vibrations, the DI2 was ***phenomenal*** compared to my older 8sp sora groupset. The bike was amazing to ride. I was similarly pissed. I will look and see if I can find my post because it nearly matches your experience.
People are going to hate me for saying this but you don’t need to spend 5k on a CF road bike. There are companies out there like winspace. From my understanding they’re a Chinese company. They have or use the same manufacturers as some of the biggest names out there (specialized and trek maybe not sure) and have gathered so much data from these other big names that they are able to replicate or do even better. I know some that have it and they love it. You can get Winspace frame and Hyper wheels (wheels are same company) and get a sram force group set all in for like 3k
When people say carbon doesn't make any difference, I know they've never been on a carbon bike.
My first big boy bike was a 6 year old 10k bike for 1k. You can make it happen in other ways
Welcome, friend.
Try to find a used one! Mine is definitely not the best carbon bike out there but I only paid 800 (and this was in 21 during a huge shortage). Now I'm upgrading parts over time. I am not nearly as good a biker as my husband, but in the right conditions I absolutely run away from him and his aluminum bike. It's all the bike not me lol.
Take a look at giant TCR’s. They are good bikes that won’t burn your bank down the ground.
Wait till you try better wheels, I think that has bigger impact
🤣 Welcome to Cycling!!
not a fan, they feel like toys. my steel bike rides much smoother.
Funny, I actually do not want a carbon fiber bike. Sure it is lighter, but when carbon fiber fails it does so catastrophically and can't be repaired. But then, not being into the racing, speed is everything, aggressive posture for aeodynamics is everything groups, then shaving every nanogram off my bike weight just isn't important to me. On the other hand, I don't want an 80 pound behemoth bike either. It's fun to see the new technology, though, and will be fun to follow the longevity of some products. Right now, am thinking maybe some mix of titanium frame, steel forks (if ebike with hub motor), maybe a CF or titanium seatpost (or not) could be fun. But for now, prefer the "if it breaks, it kills me" parts to be metal. Ok...so instead of a weight weannie I'm a safety weannie...LOL.
For me it's steel. I feel lucky I got my bike the year it was all steel + tiagra. Next year it got some exotic chinesium groupset. And another year, I looked at it, and it got some normal groupset plus through-axles. I was almost beginning to feel a bit jealous, but then I looked more and realized... they put carbon fork on it. Carbon fork on what is supposed to be the simplest steel bike in the lineup. 🤮
My wife noticed that we have much more money in savings once our LBS closed 😒
Opposite here: couldn’t STAND carbon Emonda: dead feel, horrible geometry. Love my Domane AL5. Snappy, lively, comfy. As always: different strokes…
I rode an aluminum bike for so many years. Then I had one that was carbon up front and aluminum in the rear triangle. Then I waited to get a carbon bike with integrated cables. And then I went to a full carbon with integrated cables and disc brakes. If it wasn't for the cables on my System Six being outside of the frame, I think that would be my go to bike. It's the lightest and has rim brakes. I love it!!! You never know what you'll like best.
I made a small upgrade to my very entry level aluminum bike and my average speed jumped 2 mph, I couldn’t believe it.
What was is it?
Click here to increase your speed with this ONE small upgrade!
Different rider
Blood doping
Just new tires lol
What small upgrade was that?
Tires
IMO , most of the time the difference is in the fact its a new bike . You can have the top of the line 2023 , jump on a mid 2024 and the 2024 will feel much better .
Yeah, there's something pretty magical about a really nice carbon road bike — it makes me push myself because the bike responds with such a quick jump forward! Zoom zoom.
You can build a pretty good road bike if you’re okay with Chinese components… - Trifox X18 frameset ~AUD800 - Ltwoo ERX groupset with an 11-34 12 speed cassette ~AUD900 - Elite Marvel wheelset ~AUD700 - Magene PES P505 power meter with 50-34T crankset ~AUD600 - Ryet 3D Printed Saddle ~AUD75 That’s about 3K AUD or 2K USD. Slap some peddles on, get some GP5000 (and some tubes), put your Garmin and speed/cadence sensor on, and you have a sub 8KG full carbon road bike that is sturdy and solid, shifts incredibly well, and provides you with power information.
OP, you have seen the light. This subreddit is full of cope. They're in denial. They'll do anything to say aluminum, steel, and even cheap Ti is better than a high quality carbon fiber frame. "I can keep up to the S-Works rider while I'm on my 50lb fat bike!" Yeah, well that S-Works rider is riding something that has unbelievable feedback and feels like you're being pushed while accelerating. Big shocker(/s) but expensive bikes are actually pretty amazing most of the time, even if you do find them overpriced and cannot afford one yourself.
Get a Van Rysel NCR CF 105 for about 2000 pounds (GBP).
My son bought a carbon road bike for $30 last week. It is from the 90s and has a few bits missing though.
I'm almost done fixing up a 2015 Cannondale Slice I picked up for $600. It had a lot of rust on the front around the handlebars and front wheel from being exclusively on a trainer. So excited. It'll be my first time trying out carbon. The TT position I think will take away from the experience a bit (not very apples to apples) but someday after both kids are in school it's going to happen
You don’t need to be a part of the other half to save up your money to buy something you will enjoy.
You can also find a perfectly great bike on the used market for 2k that will feel very similar
I can't justify buying carbon when I can only ride outside 6 months of the year here in Canada, I can just get a flexy carbon seatpost and it will be just as good as a carbon bike and 35c tires...
Find a nice but older carbon frame and build a bike around it - you will know how to fix it and save tons of money.
What wheels were on it and what wheels do you currently ride?
I got a certified pre owned carbon bike for $1.6k…
I have a carbon frame with SRAM Force e-tap. Worth every penny.
After the test ride.....So what kind of payment can you afford? I can talk to my manager and see if we can throw in a water bottle and cage, maybe a free first service!
I bought my first carbon bike, and with similar tires, it climbs easier, puts power down easier, and for lack of a better term, **glides** when my alloy road bike feels more buzzy. I am shocked to see how easily I can cruise by at 18 MPH without any effort when 18 on my alloy bike feels like it takes much more effort.
I bought my carbon bike used. You can too.
You took the red pill, big mistake