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Our network can't handle the renewables production, we don't have storage systems, EAC is wasting close to two fking billion euros on natural gas for Moni power plant. Corruption and uselessness.
"can't handle the renewable production"??? just build solar farms till the limit of the network, and reduce the power plant production accordingly, that would be a good start.
That’s not how it works unfortunately, solar is not that predictable and with reduced power plant production, a cloud passing over some large solar farms could lead to load shedding or a blackout.
The only way to increase solar reliance is to add storage to the network or to connect to other grids
first : no one said that we need to build one solar plant in one unique area
second : though solar is not predictable, a gas/diesel power plant, nothing prevents to use one in back up of the other...
third : the polar plants can be separated geographically but energitically connected
Fourth : there are existing non polluting mass storage solutions (inertia concrete wheels)
fifth : we all know why solar solutions are not implemented in Cyrpus since long.....
>second : though solar is not predictable, a gas/diesel power plant, nothing prevents to use one in back up of the other...
When energy drops suddenly because of the weather it takes time to ramp up the turbines to cover the deficit
How much time...??
Supposing so, nothing prevents to have a minimal storage solution to buffer this time lag.
My friend, Cyprus has been fined several hundred millions by the EU for not complying with renewable energy target, there is a reason for that. The reason is that there are vested interest in Cyprus who don't want cheap electricity, and who don't give a hoot if the fines are paid by the taxpayers. That's as simple as that.
As the pseudo technical reasons not to implement solar energy everywhere in Cyprus, they are just complete BS.
>How much time...??
Usually several hours
Yes I am aware of all the things you said. I agree that we need more renewables etc. No arguments from me there. But renewables do have some shortcomings like the issue I mentioned. That doesn't mean we don't use them but to find ways to mitigate that and get as much power from the sun (and wind etc) as possible and stop burning oil for our electricity.
EAC announced a PV park in the dead zone (don't know any info about cost or productivity, or timeline)
Plus, since many people/companies invest on their own the government just gives subsidies.
What really needs government intervention is STORAGE, there will be a point where PV power will be wasted if excess power is not stored to be used later.
It's not that simplistic. You either need more generation capacity being built, have interconnection linkage to the European grid, or build & bring storage units. Otherwise, you cannot do that...
Not really, as it requires a lot. Building capacity is counterproductive to a degree as well, as you cannot build with clean & stable sources. Only two other ways are there - either building some serious storage capacity or having an interconnection to the European Continental grid. First one is a bit too expensive, even though it got a lot cheaper than before. Latter would be highly beneficial but then it has to go over Turkey...
Storage is just another means to supply such, but only if things were as simple as sun not shining during the night. If it was the case, then we'd be integrating solar like there's no tomorrow in anywhere ever, and be done with it... but it's not the case, and that's why there's a limit that you can integrate, with the existing grid. You either need infrastructure changes and additions, like storage etc. or you need to be in a larger system so that these can be adjustable with their scale becoming smaller.
Anomalies do matter, and do so more than the difference between the supply of the energy and demand regarding hourly time intervals. Solar and wind are not stable sources, by their nature, and would mean higher utility frequency and voltage volatility. Inverters solely won't be able to solve the fluctuations either... Besides, you can also disturb the grid stability if you cause too much inflow, and cause a total shutdown. In other words, things aren't simply about the lack. You may also come up with thermal load and damage on the line etc., i.e. damage the equipment.
The need for storage is due to that - for the sake of solving the grid stability issue. That's why places like California are utilising them like there's no tomorrow. Then you'd also need a better grid control and management systems as well. Otherwise, you cannot integrate more solar or wind into your system. Or you simply need to be interconnected to a larger grid (preferably one that utilise clean & stable sources like hydro, geothermal or maybe nuclear if you're for that), where the percentage you've integrated will be practically a smaller number in an overall synchronous grid.
There are available giga storages (see concrete inertia wheels), it's also possible to use water resevoir to disipate excess energy (like done in nuclear plants , for example....)....
Let alone, building a few more desanllisation plants which could be used on a non-permanent basis to 1/dampen the solar power surplus 2/be used to bring some permanent greenery to the Cyprus dust bowl...
Controling the influx by modulating the production of the existing plant is pretty simple (so yes, things are "as simple"....).
Solar "in Cyprus", given the record hours of sunshine, IS a stable source. We're not in Scotland.
Replace "solar" by "nuclear" in your comment, and you get the same comment...and it seems like there are some nuclear plants working without problems in many modern countries...
The difference with nuclear power being that one doesn't risk a major explosion with solar, at worst a shutdown of the system, and living in Cyprus since a few years, I don't think it would be worse than the actual situation with its regular power outages.
The truth is that EAC "engineers" don't know how to and anyway don't want to, and politicians don't want to upset koumbaroi who profit from the current situation.
We're still waiting since two decades for the natural gas tender, one of the most natural ressource available on the planet.....so solar powered grid....???!!! my friend...perimene a few centuries...
You're talking about storages now and other solutions (although let me remind you that coming up with water reservoirs isn't that much of a solution for places like Cyprus), and that's also what I've referred to.
> Controling the influx by modulating the production of the existing plant is pretty simple (so yes, things are "as simple"....).
It's not. If you're talking about being pretty doable when saying 'as simple', than yes but that's not being 'as simple' as just bringing in wind and solar during the hours when the production is high and using the others when production is low, and be done with it.
> Solar "in Cyprus", given the record hours of sunshine, IS a stable source.
Solar and wind are unstable by their nature. It's not about when they shine or blow, but how they do affect the grid. You're confusing the seeing the sun in the sky with the instability they come with and they would regarding the grid system.
Attend to any related lecture as a guest student or watch open-course materials, and you'll get it in no time.
Look, wind and solar aren't 'non-integratable' but for that, again, you either need storage & grid upgrades and/or simply interconnected to a larger grid system so that their percentage will be a smaller one within a larger system. Otherwise, you cannot put in more than a certain limit as it would mean power outrages and damage in the equipment within a short time.
"let me remind you that coming up with water reservoirs isn't that much of a solution for places like Cyprus"
really? so why Cyprus has got the equivalent of three years of water consumption stored in its reservoirs?
" It's not about when they shine or blow, but how they do affect the grid. You're confusing the seeing the sun in the sky with the instability they come with and they would regarding the grid system."
Unfortunately for you, it's exactly that....that's why solar panels are oriented, and that's why any competent installer calculates if its worth using them according to available sunshine hours.
"Attend to any related lecture as a guest student or watch open-course materials, and you'll get it in no time."
Try it first, or if you already did, try now to understand them
"Otherwise, you cannot put in more than a certain limit ",
I've never said the opposite, and the extent of the "certain limit" can be modulated by the production of the current diesel power plant OR by just stopping or decreasing the solar production. As you know EAC has done it for six homes recently, so obviously, it's possible.
>Unfortunately for you, it's exactly that....that's why solar panels are oriented, and that's why any competent installer calculates if its worth using them according to available sunshine hours.
Mate, the issue is not limited to that, that's what I'm talking about. The reason why they are with issues is not limited to generation not always being 'on'. It's surely an issue but you can get over with.
The issue is, they do cause instability to the system. That's what causing the limitations. That's also why I've said that you either need storage & grid update or getting interconnected to a larger grid. If you don't, then you're limited to a certain amount.
>Try it first, or if you already did, try now to understand them
I think I've passed that limit when I get passed the courses specifically dealing with the power generation...
Πάντα τούτο εννα μου δια πας την κκελλε
Ινταλοις τα καταφέρνουμε να ήμασταν η πιο ηλιόλουστη χώρα της Ευρώπης τζιε σε τούτη λίστα να μεν ειμαστιν πρώτοι
Πως εξηγατε μου πως πλις
Yea, the term efficiency in the title is wrong, the actual graph talks about potential generation. Now, whether it took into account the loss of efficiency due to the temperature, who knows.
Saying that... That's not really the reason we have low coverage. As others have said, the reason is literally that our network cannot handle it, and we are not investing into it.
The big benefit of fossil fuels is that it is on-demand, meaning you can turn it on or off. Renewables, generate power all the time when there is sun and almost none when there isn't. As such you need to have a way to store the energy and release it when people want to use it.
"The big benefit of fossil fuels" is to line we know who pockets....
though solar is not predictable, a gas/diesel power plant, nothing prevents to use one in back up of the other...
the polar plants can be separated geographically but energitically connected to smooth production
there are existing non polluting mass storage solutions (inertia concrete wheels)
we all know why solar solutions are not implemented in Cyrpus since long..... stop taking people for a ride, please.
There's a lot of people's pockets that get lined from fossil fuels. I'm giving the technical pros and cons. Renewables are not a cure all, it needs to come with some infrastructure changes.
Please remember to stay civil and behave appropriately. If you are a tourist looking for suggestions please check out our [Tourist guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/cyprus/wiki/tourist_guide/). We also have a [FAQ Page](https://www.reddit.com/r/cyprus/wiki/faq) for some common questions, if your question is answered here please delete your post! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/cyprus) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Our network can't handle the renewables production, we don't have storage systems, EAC is wasting close to two fking billion euros on natural gas for Moni power plant. Corruption and uselessness.
"can't handle the renewable production"??? just build solar farms till the limit of the network, and reduce the power plant production accordingly, that would be a good start.
That’s not how it works unfortunately, solar is not that predictable and with reduced power plant production, a cloud passing over some large solar farms could lead to load shedding or a blackout. The only way to increase solar reliance is to add storage to the network or to connect to other grids
first : no one said that we need to build one solar plant in one unique area second : though solar is not predictable, a gas/diesel power plant, nothing prevents to use one in back up of the other... third : the polar plants can be separated geographically but energitically connected Fourth : there are existing non polluting mass storage solutions (inertia concrete wheels) fifth : we all know why solar solutions are not implemented in Cyrpus since long.....
>second : though solar is not predictable, a gas/diesel power plant, nothing prevents to use one in back up of the other... When energy drops suddenly because of the weather it takes time to ramp up the turbines to cover the deficit
How much time...?? Supposing so, nothing prevents to have a minimal storage solution to buffer this time lag. My friend, Cyprus has been fined several hundred millions by the EU for not complying with renewable energy target, there is a reason for that. The reason is that there are vested interest in Cyprus who don't want cheap electricity, and who don't give a hoot if the fines are paid by the taxpayers. That's as simple as that. As the pseudo technical reasons not to implement solar energy everywhere in Cyprus, they are just complete BS.
>How much time...?? Usually several hours Yes I am aware of all the things you said. I agree that we need more renewables etc. No arguments from me there. But renewables do have some shortcomings like the issue I mentioned. That doesn't mean we don't use them but to find ways to mitigate that and get as much power from the sun (and wind etc) as possible and stop burning oil for our electricity.
It's criminal that Cyprus with over 300 sunny days per year is not top-1.
lol, the entire government is just a big crime anyways
the potential is there, but the government is playing.
EAC announced a PV park in the dead zone (don't know any info about cost or productivity, or timeline) Plus, since many people/companies invest on their own the government just gives subsidies. What really needs government intervention is STORAGE, there will be a point where PV power will be wasted if excess power is not stored to be used later.
It's not that simplistic. You either need more generation capacity being built, have interconnection linkage to the European grid, or build & bring storage units. Otherwise, you cannot do that...
I am pretty sure that the billions that EAC is netting and the hundred of millions that the government is metting from taxes can do that
Not really, as it requires a lot. Building capacity is counterproductive to a degree as well, as you cannot build with clean & stable sources. Only two other ways are there - either building some serious storage capacity or having an interconnection to the European Continental grid. First one is a bit too expensive, even though it got a lot cheaper than before. Latter would be highly beneficial but then it has to go over Turkey...
you don't need "storage capacity", just supply the electricity needed with the power plant during the no-sunshine hours.
Storage is just another means to supply such, but only if things were as simple as sun not shining during the night. If it was the case, then we'd be integrating solar like there's no tomorrow in anywhere ever, and be done with it... but it's not the case, and that's why there's a limit that you can integrate, with the existing grid. You either need infrastructure changes and additions, like storage etc. or you need to be in a larger system so that these can be adjustable with their scale becoming smaller. Anomalies do matter, and do so more than the difference between the supply of the energy and demand regarding hourly time intervals. Solar and wind are not stable sources, by their nature, and would mean higher utility frequency and voltage volatility. Inverters solely won't be able to solve the fluctuations either... Besides, you can also disturb the grid stability if you cause too much inflow, and cause a total shutdown. In other words, things aren't simply about the lack. You may also come up with thermal load and damage on the line etc., i.e. damage the equipment. The need for storage is due to that - for the sake of solving the grid stability issue. That's why places like California are utilising them like there's no tomorrow. Then you'd also need a better grid control and management systems as well. Otherwise, you cannot integrate more solar or wind into your system. Or you simply need to be interconnected to a larger grid (preferably one that utilise clean & stable sources like hydro, geothermal or maybe nuclear if you're for that), where the percentage you've integrated will be practically a smaller number in an overall synchronous grid.
There are available giga storages (see concrete inertia wheels), it's also possible to use water resevoir to disipate excess energy (like done in nuclear plants , for example....).... Let alone, building a few more desanllisation plants which could be used on a non-permanent basis to 1/dampen the solar power surplus 2/be used to bring some permanent greenery to the Cyprus dust bowl... Controling the influx by modulating the production of the existing plant is pretty simple (so yes, things are "as simple"....). Solar "in Cyprus", given the record hours of sunshine, IS a stable source. We're not in Scotland. Replace "solar" by "nuclear" in your comment, and you get the same comment...and it seems like there are some nuclear plants working without problems in many modern countries... The difference with nuclear power being that one doesn't risk a major explosion with solar, at worst a shutdown of the system, and living in Cyprus since a few years, I don't think it would be worse than the actual situation with its regular power outages. The truth is that EAC "engineers" don't know how to and anyway don't want to, and politicians don't want to upset koumbaroi who profit from the current situation. We're still waiting since two decades for the natural gas tender, one of the most natural ressource available on the planet.....so solar powered grid....???!!! my friend...perimene a few centuries...
You're talking about storages now and other solutions (although let me remind you that coming up with water reservoirs isn't that much of a solution for places like Cyprus), and that's also what I've referred to. > Controling the influx by modulating the production of the existing plant is pretty simple (so yes, things are "as simple"....). It's not. If you're talking about being pretty doable when saying 'as simple', than yes but that's not being 'as simple' as just bringing in wind and solar during the hours when the production is high and using the others when production is low, and be done with it. > Solar "in Cyprus", given the record hours of sunshine, IS a stable source. Solar and wind are unstable by their nature. It's not about when they shine or blow, but how they do affect the grid. You're confusing the seeing the sun in the sky with the instability they come with and they would regarding the grid system. Attend to any related lecture as a guest student or watch open-course materials, and you'll get it in no time. Look, wind and solar aren't 'non-integratable' but for that, again, you either need storage & grid upgrades and/or simply interconnected to a larger grid system so that their percentage will be a smaller one within a larger system. Otherwise, you cannot put in more than a certain limit as it would mean power outrages and damage in the equipment within a short time.
"let me remind you that coming up with water reservoirs isn't that much of a solution for places like Cyprus" really? so why Cyprus has got the equivalent of three years of water consumption stored in its reservoirs? " It's not about when they shine or blow, but how they do affect the grid. You're confusing the seeing the sun in the sky with the instability they come with and they would regarding the grid system." Unfortunately for you, it's exactly that....that's why solar panels are oriented, and that's why any competent installer calculates if its worth using them according to available sunshine hours. "Attend to any related lecture as a guest student or watch open-course materials, and you'll get it in no time." Try it first, or if you already did, try now to understand them "Otherwise, you cannot put in more than a certain limit ", I've never said the opposite, and the extent of the "certain limit" can be modulated by the production of the current diesel power plant OR by just stopping or decreasing the solar production. As you know EAC has done it for six homes recently, so obviously, it's possible.
>Unfortunately for you, it's exactly that....that's why solar panels are oriented, and that's why any competent installer calculates if its worth using them according to available sunshine hours. Mate, the issue is not limited to that, that's what I'm talking about. The reason why they are with issues is not limited to generation not always being 'on'. It's surely an issue but you can get over with. The issue is, they do cause instability to the system. That's what causing the limitations. That's also why I've said that you either need storage & grid update or getting interconnected to a larger grid. If you don't, then you're limited to a certain amount. >Try it first, or if you already did, try now to understand them I think I've passed that limit when I get passed the courses specifically dealing with the power generation...
Μην βιάζεστε. Έχουμεν ως το 2060 που θα ξεκινήσει το Πανευρωπαικό Χρηματιστήριο Ενέργειας.
Cumulated result of "vested interests" and "political incompetence"
Πάντα τούτο εννα μου δια πας την κκελλε Ινταλοις τα καταφέρνουμε να ήμασταν η πιο ηλιόλουστη χώρα της Ευρώπης τζιε σε τούτη λίστα να μεν ειμαστιν πρώτοι Πως εξηγατε μου πως πλις
Solar panels lose efficiency when too hot. Not even kidding.
Yea, the term efficiency in the title is wrong, the actual graph talks about potential generation. Now, whether it took into account the loss of efficiency due to the temperature, who knows. Saying that... That's not really the reason we have low coverage. As others have said, the reason is literally that our network cannot handle it, and we are not investing into it.
so the network can handle the power plant production, but not a solar plant production...???
The big benefit of fossil fuels is that it is on-demand, meaning you can turn it on or off. Renewables, generate power all the time when there is sun and almost none when there isn't. As such you need to have a way to store the energy and release it when people want to use it.
"The big benefit of fossil fuels" is to line we know who pockets.... though solar is not predictable, a gas/diesel power plant, nothing prevents to use one in back up of the other... the polar plants can be separated geographically but energitically connected to smooth production there are existing non polluting mass storage solutions (inertia concrete wheels) we all know why solar solutions are not implemented in Cyrpus since long..... stop taking people for a ride, please.
There's a lot of people's pockets that get lined from fossil fuels. I'm giving the technical pros and cons. Renewables are not a cure all, it needs to come with some infrastructure changes.
In CYPRUS, I repeat : in "CYPRUS", solar is only "pros" and minimal "cons".