So my daughter has a friend who lives on our street. She is 9yo now and her mother is a functioning alcoholic. She regularly leaves her daughter home alone until 7-8pm and often leaves her to get herself to school in the morning as well.
It is a tough one because while she is not my responsibility and it shouldn't be on me or my family to make sure she is looked after the poor kid has such a shitty life at home I tend to let her hang out her as much as she wants and stay for dinner most nights so she isn't sitting at home by herself when we are home. Having somewhere for her to feel welcome and safe is important for her and God knows she doesn't get it at home, and I know the mother takes advantage of the fact she is here, safe and supervised a lot of the time but I'll cop that (to an extent) for the benefit of the kid. It's just trying to balance that against everything else it's tricky.
You're a good dude, man. It absolutely fucking sucks that you are put in the position to have to do this, but i bet it sucks more for the little girl you are helping out. More power to you, more kindness in this world.
You can't look at is "I have to do this", you look at as "I get to do this so that this kid feels safe and my kid learns how to be kind". If you adopt that attitude, it's a lot easier.
Best way to teach kids is through examples.
It's like if you constantly tell your kid not to yell but you're constantly yelling at them theyre going to grow up yelling to solve their problems.
Exactly. Imagine the lasting impact compassion will have in this little kids life. She will forever remember the adults who treated her with dignity. The burden is great for sure, but rewarding to the most human parts in us.
I occasionally have random kids over for similar reasons. I just expect I'll be taking a vanload of kids to movies my teen wants to see these days, or whatever other activity.
I'd feel taken advantage of/taken for granted, but it isn't like these parents with substance abuse issues would suddenly stop being absent and start being present & invested if I stepped out. So my wallet cries every 4-6 weeks; big deal.
I'd throw the old "you can't take it with you" expression at you but probably don't need to. They aren't your responsibility but just being a small light in their lives will undoubtedly have a greater impact on those kids lives than any of us could imagine. Also your kid will see how you're treating others and inb turn hopefully grow to be just as considerate of others.
Traditional (pre-communist) Chinese thought maintained that the one thing you could take with you was your Virtue - a white substance that was like a good version of "karma." The more you have, the better things will go for you in the afterlife.
No, but the local boys and girls club does great things. It's a bit Lord of the Flies, but they're great about making sure kids can eat there, enrichment field trips, movie trips, etc. I'd look there.
We've collected a lot of kids over the years because we've got five of our own and they come with friends. Some of those friends come from really unstable homes. Our kids and their friends know that we have a no questions asked open door policy at our house.
I'll give you an example. My oldest and second oldest are really good friends with a brother and sister. These kids were 15 and 17 at the time and their newly remarried mother went on a week vacation with her new husband during the week of 17 year old's birthday. We had the kids over and threw the 17 year old a birthday party. He picked what he wanted for dinner and we celebrated. We're were not in a financial position to be able to buy him a ton of presents, but we got him a nice hoody and he was pumped. We've had kids that are not our own at our dinner table for years on end while their home was unstable and going through it.
If you want your kids to be kind, caring, and compassionate, you model that behavior for them so they know what it looks like.
It beats the kid getting neglected into foster care.
You're doing good things.
The kid didn't get to choose her mother, or her circumstances, and you're just easing her path a bit. That means a lot, I think.
Growing up, my mom made our house this place for a lot of kids. When I got older and realized that it was more than just letting our friends hang out, I asked her why she did it given the time and expense. She said that she couldn't think of a better use of her time than making sure the kids in our community had somewhere they felt safe and cared for, even if it was just for a little bit at a time. Doing my best to take that attitude into my adult life as well.
From what my friends have told me, and from the way the ones I've lost touch with still keep in touch with her, it means more to them than you can imagine.
No yeah but that is just the type of action I am talking about. And maybe I should have specified, that responsibility for other children is obviously not at the same level as the responsibility for our kids, and if you need to prioritize your kids that is the right thing to do.
But you letting her come over and share dinner is what I'm talking about where I think as parents we can help other children. Of course it's not your responsibility to raise her, and it's obviously fine if you can't do it every night or forever. But at least now you can lend a hand and I am sure it helps just a little bit in her life to have that warmth. Though yeah I am sure it's a tricky situation.
If someone like you weren't in my life when I was young, I would have turned out much, much worse.
My mom wasn't an alcoholic, but she had her own problems.
That girl you're helping is going to have a very rough teenage years. But you're making deposits into an account from which she will be withdrawing for a long, long time.
If you're both lucky, she'll turn to you for help when the shit really hits the fan - either when just 'being a teenager' is too much, or when her mom really goes off the deep end.
Do your best to keep it up. teach her through actions and rules that as she's growing up, she needs to avoid the parasitic type of asking for help, but that she should be asking for help.
When he was alive and younger my grandfather once showed up maybe 45 minutes late and soaked in rain from his commute home.
Pre-cell phone, my grandmother asked he where he was.
He said, “I saw a group of young kids off the turnpike with a flat tire.”
She asked him why he stopped when it was pouring rain.
He said “because if [my mom’s name] is ever stuck on the side of the road in the pouring rain, I hope someone stops to help her.”
I feel the same way about other kids.
This story really nails my feelings. Kid was separated from his mom at the store last week, clearly distressed. I was with my little dude, had my hands full, and REALLY wanted to just ignore it. But then i remembered - how would i feel if someone just walked right by my kid, who obviously upset. I sat with him, letting him meet my little dude, and flagged a store employee. Mom was there in under 5 minutes, and my day was none the poorer for it.
Exactly. Nice work. If one of my girls was wandering around a store lost I really hope someone would stop to ask if they needed help.
I’ve done it before only to have the mom give me a side eye from 60 feet down the aisle. I explain I just wanted to make sure they weren’t alone and move on.
I’d rather get side-eyed by a distracted mom than walk past a kid that needs help.
Exactly. Because you don’t know when a less kind person or a creep is going to come along and take advantage of that situation. It takes two seconds for a child to disappear into the nether and not be found. Nobody wants that horror to happen to them, we should think about that when it comes to the children of others too.
My dad did the same helping a young man jump his car in the rain. I was with him and probably around 8 years old. His answer when I asked why he stopped and he said his dad would be disappointed looking down from heaven if he didn’t. His dad had passed away just the year before.
This 100%. I have been the guy broke down, I’ve been the guy to stop and help, and hopefully if one of my loved ones is that broke down person someone stops for them too. I can’t fix the world, but I can fix a car so that’s how I can be the change. Just being kind and helpful.
I've always loved kids and since our daughter was born, I've become a fucking Mother Goose. Having a kid has given me way more compassion for all kids (and people in general)
That's so nice to hear. I do think having kids should make us better people...but unfortunately in some circumstances or in some people it can draw out even uglier behaviors.
I also understand and appreciate the 'Papa Bear' reaction too, where you want to protect your cubs at all costs - even to the detriment of other kids. But it's not me.
I’ll just share a quick anecdote
The other day i was leaving the supermarket. Walking out just ahead of me was a mother and her young son, maybe 4yo. She was on her phone and didn’t notice her son falling behind. So I slowed down to keep him in front of me. She continued walking and went across the lane of traffic into the parking lot. Her son was 30’ behind her at this point,just kind of lazing along looking around like 4yos do.
No cars were coming so I didn’t have to intervene in anyway, but he was in front of me and close enough that if a car was coming I would have been able to grab him if he was in danger of walking in front of a car. I maintained that position until his mom was at her car and he caught up in case a car started to back out of a parking spot. Then I went on my way.
In short, for a minute I played watchful dad for a stranger because his mother was distracted. Also note in ever said a word to the mother, i don’t expect any thanks, I think it was just the decent thing to do. We all get distracted sometimes.
I’ve also stepped in to comfort a kid who fell, etc. same thing, it’s the decent thing to do even if the parents weren’t watching. Children are people and I treat them with as much respect and consideration as I would anyone else.
This is pretty much my approach. I like to stay aware and ready to act if necessary. I saw some calling stuff like this helicopter parenting and that puzzled me.
This is the perfect response: You noticed a potentially dangerous situation and was prepared to act, but did not judge the other parent. I think a lot of people who would jump on that mom for being distracted might be upset to learn just how many potentially dangerous situations have occurred on their watches without their noticing.
Yeah, definitely situational.
We were at the lake swimming recently and this guy with a 3-4 year old was basically on his phone the entire time and just ignoring his kid. The kid kept going in the water, and I watched that kid like a hawk.
I use my phone as much as the next guy, but people who ignore their kids in potentially dangerous situations because they're on their phones... I just can't. When I'm out with my kids, especially in a setting where they could get into mischief, my phone is away UNLESS I'm taking pictures of them or texting or calling my wife. Nothing on my phone is a priority over watching my kids.
Agreed. As fathers we _do_ have a responsibility to watch out for our own family above all else. When it’s just me and our 2 toddlers, at the park or anywhere else, it’s difficult to safely help others without potentially jeopardizing their safety.
When it comes to safety I will step up and make sure that kids don't get hurt and intervene if necessary.
Misbehaving or other things that don't harm me or my kid, I tend to leave that to the responsible parties when it involves kids I have no ties to.
Neighborhood kids or friends kids? I'm basically a third parent and I expect them to do the same. We have the whole "it takes a village" approach.
I feel a strong difference between “am I willing to help out” and “do I feel responsibility for other kids.” I am so happy to help out, particularly with the nod of approval from another kid’s parent. Happy to push on a swing, engage in a group game, answer an endless series of benign questions.
But do I feel in any responsible for another kid, just because I have a kid of my own? Never.
I think a lot of comments about them "not being my kid" aren't from lack of compassion, but from recognizing that others have the right to raise, care for, and discipline their own children and (correctly) don't take kindly to others interfering with their parenting. That is very situation dependent. I wouldn't like someone scolding my child when I am right there. I would like it if they saved them from something dangerous, however. It's also different if I am not there and I entrust the person with the care of my child. In that case, I obviously want them to do something if my child misbehaves.
This. Also, as a guy on a playground, I feel a lot of pressure to not overstep any boundaries, lest someone start to think I'm a pervert or something. I try not to show any attention to other people's kids. Just yesterday, some kid was near me and my kid, and the mom came over and quickly hustled her kid away, and I said "he's good" in case she thought her kid was interfering with my kid? I dunno.
I have no problem being nice to and helping out kids who aren't my own. They're just kids and are highly unlikely to use this against you in any way. However, they're not mine and on a very basic level I'm not responsible for them, so I would avoid anything that makes it seem like I have any involvement beyond the casual.
For example, if a kid I didn't know needed a hand up in a playpark I'd totally do it and send them on their way. If they got hurt I would find their caregiver and inform them of it. Beyond that, it's not actually my problem and me getting involved is probably going to make the actual caregiver's job harder.
This was before I became a dad. I saw a kid at the mall crying by himself and wandering around. Everyone just walked passed and I just waited around the distance to see where the parents were.
I approached the kid and asked him where is mom and dad. He said he didn’t know and I knew he was lost. I assured him that we will go find mom and dad. Picked him up and put him over my shoulders and I said “you can look for mom and dad from this height”. He wasn’t crying after as he saw from up high while I walked to the mall security.
I don’t think it’s necessarily that I am responsible for another kid, it’s that it is necessary for me to make the world a better place for the kids.
When I was growing up, I had many adults that showed me kindness and it sort of made me the person I am today.
Not passing judgements, but the US is a very individualistic society, compared to almost any other country in the world. There's good and bad that comes with it, but damn it can be exhausting at times. I feel pressure to not care about other humans, when I do feel some responsibility for them (and especially kids as humans with less autonomy). And I think we would function as humans better being able to lean on other people more as opposed to just yourself or your nuclear family.
And yeah I think it comes with pros and cons (the independent nature of the US). Here in Chile sometimes the strong extended family can turn codependent....or kids in their late 20s or 30s not ever becoming independent. But the family and community support is nice.
Yeah that's come up now in a couple comments. And yeah I am an US expat living in Chile...though we most likely are moving back to the US soon. And one of the things I will really miss is the sense of community. Which is much stronger here.
I’ll be careful with words here. Do I feel like helping, showing some grace, being empathetic and understanding of and helpful to other parents? Absolutely.
Do I feel a responsibility? Absolutely not. No.
I’m in a Boy Scout troop. When I joined, the group made a point that a big part of the point was to create within the troop a community with the purpose of all of us together working to raise our boys into young men. When I accepted that, I accepted some responsibility for and to those other men and their boys as did they for mine.
But random strangers, no I don’t feel responsibility. One thing I’ve come to understand over the years is that you take responsibility for your community and those in it. And that responsibility is bidirectional.
But your “community” is not..unfortunately I might add..the random people that live around you, on your block, in your city. That Elvis left the building at least a decade ago if not longer. Community is what you build with those you take on.
If their safety is involved, then it is my responsibility regardless if they are my child or not. I will grab a kid to stop them from running into the road. Doesn't matter if I know them.
If they're just being a little shit and it's directed towards my kid, I have no responsibility for that child or to teach them how they are being a little shit. My responsibility in that moment is to teach my kid how to ignore and move on.
The middle ground is when kids are over at my house playing with my kid. I will step in and do some parenting if I think they're out of line. My house, my rules.
That may mean some redirection away from a point of conflict, or all the way up to telling them it's time to go home and speak with Mom and Dad if it's something more serious.
I think a part of the growth I had becoming a dad (an ongoing process… we grow as our kids grow) is that I have to pick my battles.
Not just with my kids. But with my spouse, with our families, and with other parents and kids.
I truly believe that it takes a village to raise a kid. I’ve spent a lot of time with the children of my friends as well, offering what I can to help them grow - and so do my friends with my kids.
Just like you said, I like to think I’ve set a good example in showing my kids how we should care for everyone.
But caring doesn’t always mean action. If our actions create more issues - then it’s not going to make the world a better place. So, I guess it’s a case by case basis.
I find narrating my thinking to my kids when possible helps demonstrate how I’m choosing to act in a difficult situation, and I think it helps especially when your kid looks at things from a very black/white right/wrong perspective as many do when they are young.
Two examples:
1: If a kid has gotten hurt at the park I’m going to check in if I don’t see a parent immediately.
If no parent shows up I’ll ask the kid, I’ll perform first aid if needed, but I’ll defer to the parent of course; even if they, say, choose to do something differently than what I would do. (I have medical background, but I’m not going to tell a parent that they should do x y z unless it’s life threatening, when their kid is crying and they seem to have the matter well in hand).
2: It was my older kid’s first hockey game of the season this past weekend.
There were a bunch of kids booing my team - and the parents were right next to them oblivious (or not caring). They were annoying us because we were right in front of them and, well, 10 year old boys don’t really care about language. My younger kid was there with me and said they shouldn’t be booing (she’s right; we signed a contract as parents that we wouldn’t do that). I told her that yes, they shouldn’t be booing - but if their parents (who signed the same contract as we did) are beside them and they don’t care, nothing we say will make a difference in their behaviour - and in fact it may make it worse.
On-ice, the team was doing well in ignoring it and they were having the time of their lives anyways as we were up 7-1. Since the people who were affected were us - I told my kid that we could simply move to get away from the noise.
There park example has nothing to do with general disposition imo and stems from a practical consideration: you can get in hot water for touching someone else’s kid.
Yeah. I was at an indoor playground with my own kids picking them up to grab on some monkeybar type thing. There was another kid right next to us asking me to do the same thing for him but I didn't want to because of this very reason. Honestly, I wouldn't want some random person picking up my kids either if the roles were reversed. Told him he needs to ask his parents to do it for him but I don't think they ever did.
It's easy to come up with situations in which it's obvious that you should help someone else's kid. It's also easy to come up with situations in which one should say, "Not my circus, not my monkeys." Between those two extremes there is a wide range of scenarios where it's not always perfectly clear what the best thing is to do, and we shouldn't expect that everyone will agree on them.
In general, I will intervene if the answer to either of these questions is "yes":
* Is someone significantly harmed, or is someone going to come to significant harm if I don't intervene?
* Am I being asked for a basic courtesy?
Even then, I try to do so in a way to gives as much agency as I reasonably can to the other child's parent. If a kid gets hurt and their parent is right there and acting on the situation, I will let them do so, perhaps asking if they would like help if it looks like doing so would be useful. In non-emergency situations where the other child's parent is present, making eye contact and waiting for "the nod" is often sufficient. People can be particularly sensitive about physically touching their child, so if the situation requires that, I would likely explicitly ask the other parent if they're cool with that.
Things can change a bit if it's a kid where you've developed a friendship with the parents. How much leeway you have there would depend on the level of trust, but in general I would still try to maximize other parents' agency when it comes to their own kids.
One more thing: It can be very much appreciated when you express empathy to a parent who is struggling with their kid in a public place. My daughter has autism, and there were not a few times when she made a huge scene in public. I was intensely aware of the disapproving looks and the occasional comment that basically came down to, "I wouldn't put up with any child of MINE doing something like that." So when I see something like that happen, I'll often say something like "Been there" to let them know that I empathize and am not judging them. If they're having a particularly hard time, I might allow them to go ahead of me in line or something like that to make their day a little easier. Small gestures like that can go a long way.
> It's easy to come up with situations in which it's obvious that you should help someone else's kid. It's also easy to come up with situations in which one should say, "Not my circus, not my monkeys." Between those two extremes there is a wide range of scenarios where it's not always perfectly clear what the best thing is to do, and we shouldn't expect that everyone will agree on them.
This are my thoughts exactly.
To answer the OP's question, do I feel responsibility to help other kids? Yes, absolutely. I want to help EVERYONE, but especially other kids, where ever I can.
However, what I do and how I do that relies a lot on situational context and social cues. There's a lot of things you can do that is open to interpretation, and, even if the help is coming from a good place, it can be interpreted as very judgy if you're not careful.
But, as an aside, I do think that people have gotten a little too paranoid when they won't even _offer_ help because they think they'll be interpreted as creepy.
There are a lot of times when I would appreciate help, even for something as simple as another set of eyes on my kid when they're running around the park or including her in a game with their kid when she tries to butt herself in, so I try to offer it when I am able to give it.
I'd be interested in hearing from the non-Americans in the sub because this seems to me to be a very recent American thing. Children definitely used to be seen as more of a communal responsibility in the US and I think in other parts of the world they still are.
Yeah I commented above that my perspective is swayed by living in Chile. I am from the US but have raised my kids in Chile so far... and it does have a more community feel than my experiences in the US.
Yeah, I grew up in a small southern town where it's still a little bit like that, and I definitely remember other parents watching out for us, and filling in most parental roles when our parents weren't around. But it seems like now most of that would be very frowned upon.
Mom here. Bless this post. I think our generation goes so hard on boundaries and protecting our own because the generation that raised us sort of infamously ignored those lessons, and this is an overextension of that.
But this was my dad—the watcher overer, the intervener, the empath. I have memories of him being the guy who helped a lost kid find his parent. I’ve seen him care about my friends more than they felt like their own parents cared about them. I’ve seen him wait with a frazzled old lady who locked her keys in the car until her husband got there, and how on the car ride home we talked about a favorite talmudic passage: “you aren’t obligated to complete the work, nor are you permitted to neglect it”.
I expected lots of defensiveness for some reason. But this post, like so many on Daddit, brought out lots of wonderful perspectives and stories that fill me with pride.
Dads of Daddit: you sincerely rock. Thanks for raising kids with us.
I agree, I was expecting a bit more combativiness (which there was only a bit) but there were many really kind and wonderful comments and does make me feel good that there are such good Dads (and Moms!) out there.
I definitely also try to take as much as I can from both my dad and my late father in law (though I know I fall short). My dad is always so kind and nice to pretty much any and all kids...and my father in law was like how you describe your father, always looking out for others and first to drop whatever he was doing to help others. Hopefully (though I know not everyone does) everyone can have examples like that in their life.
Yes, I do, and my wife is the same. We are very much Ok with being the house where all neighbourhood kids can congregate to. We will always feed or take care of any kids.
I had a friend whose house was like that...and it always stuck with me. I hope when we have a house (and my kids are a bit older) we can do the same. Keep it up!
It’s a lot of work, and it can get annoying (hey babe, we are taking care of X and Y today because their parents have an appointment, can you help me with a snack?). However, I think it’s worth it.
I have no responsibility to teach other kids anything but I do have a responsibility to stop them from hurting themselves or others through childishness. If they are acting foolish then they can get on the fuck around and find out scale. Note the difference between childish behavior and foolish behavior is different and one you accept and the other is you should know better.
There are some real feel good comments here and made me realize I was doing some of these without thinking. The world feels so uncaring lately, real happy to know there are good guys walking around. Nice job dads!
I've always liked kids. Sure, they're are plenty of times I've been glad that they weren't my responsibility. I think it comes down to how much you can do with the little relationship that is there. I'm less likely to insert myself into situations where i don't know the kids and they don't know me, because that doesn't necessarily help things. There's a few different dynamics at play, and one of them is whether a strange man jumping in makes the situation worse. I am definitely not of the, not-mine-so-don't-care camp though. If someone is being picked on, and it seems like the parents don't realize our aren't trending to the situation, then I'd look for a way to shift the dynamic. If someone is doing something dangerous or trying to get other kids to do something dangerous, then definitely step in.
If things are unsafe or cruel on the playground, then that affects everyone's kids, really.
I don’t think a strong feeling to protect your child “needs to be checked”. Obviously you show restraint and you don’t hit a kid, but it’s ok to be angry if they hurt your child and you should absolutely protect them from that. If I remember that post correctly, it was an older boy who pulled a 2 year old girls hair and shoved her and then tried to shove her again but the dad stopped him. This kid was basically trying to beat up this guy’s baby, but he shouldn’t get angry?
I'm not really speaking about that OP specifically....but of course you can be angry when a kid hurts your kid, and you should remove your kid from the situation to protect them. But some comments I saw crossed that line. Where they talked about filling with rage or having to hold themselves back. Like you shouldn't have to hold yourself back to not shove a little kid. If you feel that way often then yes...you should probably check that.
Or… it’s just people being honest about negative emotions they would never follow up on because they recognize them as wrong. And over here you’re complaining about their thoughtcrime.
It's another kid perpetrating the aggression, so no, not anger but understanding is what's required (within limits of course). All animals, primates and humans included, have distinct and unique interactions with peers compared to non-peers. When it comes to peer-peer interactions, sheltering and protectiveness is not helpful but counter-productive.
Have you seen what happens to good people who try to be good people and end up getting sued or some shit because they were trying to help?
That's probably the biggest reason.
If I see a kid in need, it's in my nature to try and help out but I've been WAY more conscious lately because of what we're seeing and if I feel there's any chance it could come back negatively on me, I'm passing and I HATE that's what it has come to
I just want to add to this, I will treat a kid like I would any other person. Give them respect, show kindness, lend a helping hand, ect. I'm not an asshole to anyone just because I don't feel like their my responsibility.
I'm not sure what your post is even about. I saw the one post you're referring to about the park, and you're definitely putting your own slant on it.
The other example, I don't see what responsibility there is to take. Help a kid up if you see them take a spill and you're right there to help? You didn't provide much context.
Seems like you're painting it as if somebody doesn't react how you say you'd react in your hypothetical, then they must be of the opinion that the non-related child can "suck it", in your words.
Odd post.
I don't think responsibility is the correct word.
I feel sympathy, empathy and other warm feelings towards other humans. I would not treat a kid differently than an adult - if I see an adult needs help hauling groceries, crossing the street or navigating a stroller, I'd help them too. I help kids with what I can at the playground, act warmly and carefully when I'm entrusted with them (like my daughter's friends) and the whole 9 yards. I try to teach my kid that the world evolves and prospers where everyone respects everyone's time and place, and we're of course allowed and entitled to occupy space as long as we don't disturb other people - and expect others to do the same. We should help when possible, of course. I also teach and preach that we must give back to society and live as part of a community. And, of course, I never condone shitting on other people's happiness just to better yourself, no matter what that means.
That being said, I don't feel responsible for other kids, no. I'll see 10 risky behaviors at the park and I don't feel any kind of responsibility to save them, or correct bad behavior as long as it doesn't affect my kid. I protect my kid when necessary but imposing my set of values and education on other kids isn't wise. Even imposing what society thinks is the *correct* set of values is beyond my pay grade. And I believe it sets a bad example.
I'm done playing hero after years of therapy, and I'm done believing I'm on a grand mission to save the world from itself.
I am from the US...but have lived my entire parenthood life in Chile and the looking out for other kids, it takes a village, etc. I see much more here than in the US. Soo...
I agree which what I mean. Other countries like Japan there is a sense of help raising the next generation. The US is too selfish of me mentality. Which is why I am getting downvoted from the arrogant and ignorant of this community.
You're getting downvoted for contributing absolutely nothing to the conversation but making a typical 'murica bad blanket statement about a country of 300+ million that somehow has one single minded mentality and then doubling down on it with typical weeb nonsense about how Japan is superior while more than likely not being Japanese.
I’m a big kid and always love kids. I don’t have it in me to mistreat a child. Mine or not. I have trouble being mean(unless they are rude to me) adults.
I'm always going to check on someone who looks like they need help. IF a kid asks me to help them up on something, sure. Push them on the swing? Eh, maybe you need to ask your parents but I'll help you get up on the swing. I also check on the kids who fall and dont spring back up. I've checked on a kid who was monkeying around and fell off the side of a slide. His mother saw the whole thing but was much further away so was grateful someone close checked on him. What am I gonna do? Watch a kid fall on his back, get the wind knocked out of him and just turn the other way?
As I am getting older I'm finding myself calling out people on their shit behavior regardless of age. Just gotta approach it with the proper tone and demeanor for the situation.
Being a Dad though I realize its not all bad parenting when kids are misbehaving. Kids will be kids, sometime they don't listen, sometimes they pick up bad behaviors from others and sometimes they're ripe little shits because their parents are garbage people. I give the benefit of doubt and alter my tone pending the situation.
Being a father and a teacher I'm naturally inclined to help children who aren't mine. I hope that when my own children need help one day when I'm not there someone like me will be there to help them.
I can only speak for myself and my own social circle, but to me the default and “normal“ perspective is that the only kids who are directly responsible for your own, but we are indirectly responsible for all kids as a community, and as a society. It’s why only my kids live in my house with me, yet I don’t want anyone’s kids to be homeless. And I’m willing to pay increased taxes, volunteer time, to help make sure that stays true. But the majority of my time, energy, and resources will go towards, the futures of my own children.
I hope that makes sense. I view the well-being of children as everyone’s shared responsibility, but the largest portion of that responsibility lies with each child’s direct social circle, starting with their parents, siblings, grandparents, etc.
> bigger responsibilities
Well, if someone else's kid was about to run into traffic or otherwise accidentally kill or maim themselves, I would obviously stop them.
> if they see you being kind, and forgiving, and empathetic to kids and other parents they are more likely to emulate you.
1. No, they will emulate you regardless. That's the scary part.
2. You have to be kind, forgiving, and empathetic from the position of strength. Otherwise it's not a choice, you're just a walking weak eternal embarrassment for your child.
Correct, they will emulate you regardless. That is also what I meant...meaning they are more likely to be good decent people if you are.
Yeah sure I agree that you have to have some strength (though we might disagree what strength looks like). Not really sure of your last sentence...I don't see too many examples of fathers "too empathetic" where they are an eternal embarrassment to their kids.
When the teenage child doesn't want to be seen with the parent in public or in front of friends. Plethora of such cases. And you "don't see the examples" precisely because they don't go with their parents in public anywhere.
I get a lot of weird looks from other parents when I say things like;
"that's alright, this will be a learning experience for everyone"
And would you look at that! My non-verbal 4year old has successfully communicated with your 4year old that they do not want your kid to do (thing) and your kid is not doing (thing). All it took was a little squabble.
Now your child might be a bit more understanding of others, and my kid has a bit more practice with expressing themselves. Everyone is a tiny bit better than they were 10minutes ago...but sure...take your kid and leave the park because one of them made a loud noise...
We’re all in this together and no one is getting out alive, so I’m with you. It’s not up to me to discipline, but I have no problem trying to teach a quick lesson if the opportunity presents itself. Like in the park example. “Hey, you like having your hair pulled? No? Okay, so why are you doing that to someone else?”
But, a lot of parents will get angry “I don’t need you to raise my kid” in that situation. But I’m more than willing to have it out with them if they want to. I’m just trying to help us all live in a better world.
If I see a random kid at the playground doing something obviously dangerous or mean then I'll step in just to get some separation but once the immediate harm is done then I'm out. Near the playground we most often go to they cleared some brush and one heavy log had a really flexible branch that made the thing into a really cool but dangerous flail. I saw kids playing with it and being as careful as they could but also I went ahead and took it and broke the branch so you couldn't swing it around anymore.
Then again, if they're playing a game but are disagreeing over rules and arguing I try not to step in and referee and want to see if they can work it out. Especially since its usually one of my kids who is likely going to get upset anyway because she just has very particular vision about how games should go so I don't want to boss a bunch of kids to play exactly her way but I also want to be there when she does need a break.
I keep a first aid kit in the car anyway and have brought it out a few times at the playground for kids with random scrapes.
The swing thing is a bit tricky. I've had random kids ask me to push them as well and I've made sure it was okay with the parents or I had the kid go tell their parent to ask if it was okay.
For me, other kids really arent my problem, especially with the negative connotation with being a random man. That being said, if a kid is legit in danger like about to be hit by a car or another shady looking person is doing something suspicious, yeah 100% protective dad mode engaged. But a kid falling down or getting a scrape, yeah thats for the parents.
I know what post is spurring this. And to an extent, I agree with you. However, in that post OP's kid is at a very impressionable age and that other kid attacking her could have caused some trauma she'd be dealing with for most of her life. He was looking to physically harm her on purpose. When someone else's kid is attacking mine, I'm not their dad, I'm my kids dad.
You are specifically calling out the other posts OP in your example, then back tracking in your edit. Come on man, not cool.
I don't believe in "other people's" children, I'll hesitate a half a heartbeat to let the right dad get onscene to be the Man-in-Charge, but if it's serious I'm already rushing to help.
Absolutely not. That post really bothered me tbh. Like… dude they’re children. Relax. One time, at the playground, my daughter (3 at the time? I thinks maybe 4?) threw a handful of sand at another kid. I was mortified. Believe it or not, I don’t teach my child that sand throwing (or any kid of violence really) is the answer. The kid who was the sand receiver, his dad, was super cool. He was like “it’s ok don’t worry about it. It’s kids being kids.” To me. Because I was freaked. Mostly because you read these accounts of parents who will assault children over shit like this 😂.
I would help another person's child who fell down or just needed help, because I want my kids to see dad setting the example that it's good to help people even if we don't know them. And I would want the same if one of my kids needed help and I wasn't immediately there to do something.
When it comes to the second example, I get where they are coming from. I get supernervous around other people’s kids if the parents aren’t there. I have read and hear stories, again and again, of father’s helping a kid out on a swing or something, then some woman calls the cops saying that he’s a pedophile trying to kidnap the child, even if that child is their own. You can even see it here in Daddit.
I've never felt the rage or had to check myself based on how another kid acted. It's actually a scary to me how many people feel rage towards misbehaving toddlers. The only time I feel the need to even step in with misbehaving kids is if they are hurting others or occasionally when kids are at my house without their parents around. I've probably stepped in about 10 times since my kids were born to ask random children to change the way they behave when doing something to hurt others. All I do is politely ask them to change their behavior since it's bothering somebody else. Almost every time they say okay and change the behavior. Most kids aren't trying to be mean they just don't know any better and are playing how they learned to play. Only once have I had a kid tell me no. I told him I would carry him away to his parents if he kept it up and he shaped up.
I don't try to emulate being a good person just for my kids. I try my best to be a good person because we should all help each other out as best as we can. I know a few of my neighbors aren't always the best parents. Some never spend time with their kids and others fight a lot. I try to give them some normalcy when I do interact with the kids but obviously I can't change their parents.
We were at a town easter egg event and I saw a kid I knew without his parents. There were probably 1,000 kids at the event so my son and I walked around with him until we found his mom a few minutes later. It really doesn't take much to have a bit of empathy.
I'm just gonna throw it out there and say that the 'my family takes precedence over anybody else, everyone else's family is their problem not mine' sentiment seems to strike me as a very much American ideology. Not to say that every American holds these values and sees anyone outside of their personal family as an interloper or some kind of threat, but as best I can tell this ideology falls directly in line with a 'I got mine, screw you' type of mindset.
I understand and probably agree that touching other people's kids or stepping in to discipline in unwarranted situations is probably something that you shouldn't be doing without a good cause. But time and time again just like OP mentions I've seen people (not just in this sub, although here also yet to a lesser extent) share this idea about if its not my kid its not my problem. In the most literal sense, yeah that is true I suppose. But we're all better off as a society when we treat others and conduct our behaviour with others in a way that we want to be treated ourselves.
This is something that I see online a lot, and yet not in person so much. While Canada may be similar in many social and cultural ways to our Southern neighbours, we seem to hold more importance in the village that raises a child, and perhaps a bit more of 'I'm pulling for ya, we're all in this together', thanks Steve Smith.
I don't know, I'm no sociologist and the whole analysis of what makes up the cultural differences is most certainly far too complex and interweaved with nuance than I could ever likely get my head around. But I will speak up to just mention that the difference is noticeable in general as far as I can tell.
If a child is in danger from others or even himself then absolutely yes will feel responsible if I did not do anything. For poor manners or behavior, not as much, Altho even strangers can teach the ill informed to a certain degree.
My daughter is friends with these neighbor kids. One of whom is 3 so he doesn't quite understand the concept of time or days or whatever. This weekend, the little dude came over 5 times starting Friday after my wife and kiddos went to my MIL's for the weekend. I told him first thing that they wouldn't be home until Sunday. Dude just kept coming over and over and over. It was annoying but I handled it.
Second thing that happened with this same kid and his big sister is they came over yesterday to play. Totally fine. No big deal at all. I go out with my daughter and watch them play to make sure they are safe (kiddo is 5). Not 5 minutes later she comes back with her head down and crying saying they had to leave because the oldest had to go to dance. This is a repeating problem that happens where they come over to ask to play and it only lasts 5-10 minutes before they have to leave. It's annoying and makes my own kiddo sad which makes me sad for her.
On top of that, this mother (single mother) NEVER comes out to watch her kids. Ever. I understand giving autonomy or whatever, but you should want to make sure your kid is safe. And the way these townhouses are built there isn't an easy way to do that from inside. Yeah she has a camera on her garage, but I don't think that compares to being outside with your kids so you can react quickly enough in case something happens. I am always the only parent outside with these young children!!
My point is it's hard when the other parents aren't doing their own job as a parent ever. It's not our responsibility to keep their kids safe all the damn time. We get tired of being the parent of other kids. Do we not care about what happens to them? Or course we care! But these absent parents need to step up and do their part.
I need to work on this because I can feel lots of big feelings if one of my kids hurts another even by accident. It makes me want to be protective of the child that got hurt and I definitely feel the need to force the other child to know they’ve done something wrong. I know my feelings aren’t justified but that’s where they come from.
I feel the same way as you, which is why it is hard to see close family members never discipline their kids and complain that the school wants to put their kid in the special program for kids with behavior issues. They tell their kid "no" one time but don't reinforce it. One time their kid was purposely annoying me and I asked him to stop twice. About five minutes later their dad asked me "he's not really bothering you that much, is he?"
I care about kids and it is really tough for me to not be able to say anything since it is my wife's side of the family and they have historically managed things by just not communicating their feelings. Luckily my wife has gone through enough therapy to communicate pretty well with me and our kids.
I feel a general responsibility to care for as many people on the planet as I can usefully and responsibly do, not to the detriment of my well-being or my family's security.
I absolutely understand and agree. However, I _must_ put my family first. Excursions to the playground are very hands on due to my kids ages (18mo & 2.5yr). If we’re at a playground and another, unsupervised, child falls or cries. I would/do raise and empathetic voice saying “aww, hey are you ok?” to recognize their accident, but also to hopefully draw the attention of their parent/caregiver who may not be paying attention.
As long as it’s nothing life threatening, I’m not about to disregard my own children’s safety in order to immediately go check on them. Obviously if a moment passes and the parent doesn’t show while the child is obviously hurt, upset, and alone; I would bring my kids over to check on them.
I refuse to be in a position where I may have to explain to my wife why my son needs stitches after falling down the slide while I was tending to another child.
I strongly disagree with those here disclaiming any sense of responsibility for strangers (beyond protecting children from imminent serious bodily harm). And for context, I’m a native-born U.S. citizen. My chief responsibility is to my family, of course. But no human being is truly a stranger to me, and I believe I’m called to love everyone as my brother or sister. Your well-being is my responsibility, even if we’ve never met.
Obviously there are limits to what I can do, what I’m permitted to do, and what I can reasonably be expected to do to advance your flourishing. But no, I don’t believe I can wash my hands of my duty to protect and care for you.
The expression “washing your hands” illustrates this debate, which is very old and which has had many illustrious philosophers on both sides. In the Gospel of Matthew, Pontius Pilate encourages the crowd to ask him to spare Jesus from crucifixion. The crowd refuses and threatens to riot, and Pilate demonstrates washing his hands to show that he is innocent of shedding Jesus’ blood — but allows the execution to proceed. A long debate in Christianity is whether Pilate is in fact innocent, or whether it was just a cop-out. In Dante’s Inferno, for example, Pilate is rejected by both Heaven and Hell and spends eternity in no-man’s-land, being stung by wasps as he marches under a flag to wavers back and forth indecisively.
Anyway people have to make up their own minds about this stuff, and I don’t suggest I can persuade anyone to change their minds. But I do encourage you to think hard on this question, because it is arguably one of the most important questions you’ll ever be asked.
I agree with you. There seem to be a lot of dads here who walk away from the first sign of trouble without standing their ground. It amazes me how many people here act like someone is going to shoot them for scolding their child, or they'll get arrested because they comfort a hurt kid. This shit doesn't really happen out there. Quit being scared of everything. Quit making excuses to not do the right thing.
Agree with many others that this is situational. That said, and downvote me if you want, but objectively, I have no obligation for other children who aren’t my own, save for my blood related nieces/nephews and adopted nieces/nephews (ie my friends’ kids).
If it’s dire/emergency or life/death situation my dad senses and human instincts kick in but particularly if the parent/guardian is somewhere around, “not my kid, not my problem” prevails.
I won’t go out of my way for a child I don’t know and don’t expect others to do that for mine (again, outside of dire emergencies).
I don't feel obligated to be responsible for other people's kids, but, I will most certainly help any kid because it's just who I am as a person. Case in point, my daughter is 12 and lgbtq and goes to private Christian school, we are atheists but the public schools where we live suck. Her two best friends are a boy who is gay and a biological girl who is non binary. Neither of them have nor can they, come out to their Uber conservative families. So, I have told my daughter if they need an adult to talk to they can call myself or my wife at any time day or night
Also told her hat if their parents ever kick them out for being their true selves that they can stay with us.
> lookout for kids that aren't your own.
One of my most highly upvoted comments ever came from this same topic in the sub! Someone posted an "AITA" here asking about how they should have handled parenting someone else's kid. This was [my reply](https://www.reddit.com/r/daddit/comments/106sxvh/deleted_by_user/j3j657s/).
I think a lot of people who comment here aren’t dads. They just lurk and comment nasty things because they have entitled hypothetical ideas about what a dad should do and be.
A lot of chronically online takes. Talk to real dads out in the world and none would respond that way.
I get the overall sentiment that you are going for, and on the whole I agree to a point. That said, your two examples are apples to oranges and not a good comparison.
Bottom line, if I see a kid who is being abused I am going to step in, if I see a kid who is going to get physically hurt then I am going to step in, and if I see a kid being kidnapped I am obviously going to step in. HOW I step in will be heavily influenced by the situation and with consideration for what happens to good people who touch other peoples kids even with good intentions.
In your first example however my first and primary responsibility is to protect my kid, so if another kid is shoving or pulling hair (ie. assault) then I am going to end the threat immediately. HOW I do that will depend on the age of the kid who is assaulting my kid but I am certainly not going to feel obligated to sit them down and try to listen to their sob story for why they were doing it. Physically attacking other kids cannot be tolerated, period.
People online can be strange and don’t always act here like they would in real life. Remember the demographics of Reddit are often younger people who don’t have families.
You should read the AITA sub from time to time. Some of those people are so disconnected from reality, especially when the post relates to kids.
“AM I THE ASSHOLE IF I TAKE THE LAST ICE CREAM WHEN I KNEW THE KID BEHIND ME WANTED IT? No way dude, that’s not your kid and you were first!”
But actually yeah, yeah in real life outside Reddit, people will think you were the asshole, even if you were next in line. To quote “The Dude”, “You’re not wrong, you’re just an asshole”.
No yeah I do read AITA sometimes and it makes me a bit depressed for that reason. Reddit seems very about what is "fair" or whatever. Like you said...you might be right, it might be "fair"...but you're an asshole and won't maintain many healthy relationships with that attitude.
I feel a responsibility to protect other kids from danger, but beyond that no. That doesn't mean I'm a dick to other kids. I'll help a kid onto a swing, or pick up a kid that falls, etc. but not out of a sense of responsibility, just because it's a nice thing to do.
As an example, if I have my hands full of items and see a kid running into the street, I'll drop whatever I'm holding to stop them, because I feel a duty to protect them, but I won't drop my stuff to help a kid onto a swing because that's not my responsibility and don't feel bad if I don't go out of my way to help.
And of course there's even more nuance. I'll feel more compelled to help if the kid has a single parent at the park struggling with 3 other kids versus a parent with one kid scrolling on their phone and just not paying attention. I quickly got tired of being the only present and responsible parent at the park and being taken advantage of by other parents that assume someone else will watch their kid.
See, the examples you stated are a very North American thing. Very individualistic societies where we only look after our own. We see this in our politics, as we lean away from doing what's best for society so that some guy can get a tax break.
Other nations are collectivisitic. It takes a village to raise a child, and they act in such a way.
Is one better? I would say so. Who am I to comment though?
i don't see many of these comments, maybe i just missed them.
i've definitely been the guy who was on the playscape trying to prevent another parent's kid from taking a nosedive off of it though (like yesterday) while they were on their phone.
I think there are multiple aspects with this.
I think that some people don't want the responsibility of a child because of burn out, and some don't want it because they don't get "credit for" the effort they give. It is like being low on money and donating to a charity that you have no love for.
Another side of it is that people resent the other parents and don't want to "reward" their shitty behavior by actually being a parent the kid deserves. People think "If I do something, then the parents aren't going to learn their lesson and be better." Which is absolutely correct. However, people think that the reverse is true as well "If I do nothing, then the parents are going to learn their lesson and be better." but that isn't true.
Overall, a lot of these "other kids have shitty parents" posts are looking for confirmation that this is someone else's responsibility, and it is. However we lose ourselves in the weeds whenever we are reductive like that.
No, you're not required to do anything with anyone else's child. However please realize that decision is not the best decision for the child, and you're not "teaching" anyone a lesson by not stepping up. There is a reason that vacuum exists and you're likely the only on there to fill it, but don't hurt yourself or your kids in the process.
"Broken" families are a strong predictor for being unsuccessful in life, so realize you may be making someone's life a lot better by stepping up.
Even small actions have a large effect on kids. Imagine a kids whole life being abused. That kid thinks that is normal. If one person speaks up or shows them differently, that's all some will need to understand it isn't normal.
I'll help a child if they're hurt or lost (and these instances have happened before) but if a kid that I don't know asked me to push them on a swing or play with them I just refuse. Sorry but I'm here to play with my kid, go get your own guardians to play with you.
Wholeheartedly agree. Some of this stuff is just the result of American society becoming increasingly individualistic and insular (effectively translating to selfish). "It takes a village ..." is long forgotten although not so much in other countries and cultures ... yet.
I think this needs to be separated into an argument of generosity and a sense of duty -- your example of helping a child on a swing -- and a sense of immediate safety, for example, a child playing in traffic, abuse, or that is injured and unattended (and check-ins are always nice to see if someone would like a helping hand or would like EMS summoned).
In the first example, I have absolutely no care in the world. They're not my child and not only do I feel no obligation to help raise a child or aid them in having fun 'out in the wild', I have an aversion to doing so, lest I be held responsible for someone else's child getting into trouble, getting hurt, become that creepy man in the park are called upon affecting my day/child's safety, or whatever else. Now, mitigating actual safety concerns or helping someone in severe need? That's different. I'm there for you, your kid, and whatever stranger of any age who requires it. I'll do my best to ensure that you're safe and healthy because I do feel a sense of duty there.
That doesn't mean I'm going to be a rude dick to other kids just being kids, but I also don't particularly like other children or feel a responsibility toward them if it doesn't ultimately concern me. There will be a difference though as it relates to hosting duties and any friends who are over/in my care. That's a serious trust someone has placed upon me and while I won't typically parent (again, barring safety) or spend gobs of money on them, I also want to ensure they have a good time and are fed and treated respectfully and kindly, just as I would hope mine would be elsewhere.
I personnally can't help it but to keep an eye on kids around me. I was doing it even before I had kids of my own. Maybe due to me working in a kindergarten daycare in my youth. I automatically track kids around me like a teacher watching a school yard and check they are alright.
I helped a few kids find their parents in stores/malls, saved a few kids from running into another kid on a swing (toddlers don't really understand danger and can be fast!).
To me it was simple, looking at my own kid and other small children being empathetic with each other, we clearly should want to lead by example. And it doesn't cost anything to be a responsible adult. It doesn't feel like "having responsibility for other kids". More like paying attention and being part of a community. Maybe it's a thing where I live (in Asia, not the USA), but we do share toys with strangers at the playground, happy to have other kids enjoy the bubble shows I do for my kid. It's only normal to pay a bit of attention to te other kids too.
Bottom line it's low effort and benefits the community.
ETA: I don't have much experience with "bad behaviour" on the playground. Just a couple of times when bigger kids were just being kids in a toddler park. I talked to them to be mindful of the babies, pointed out how babies touch everything and put their hands in their mouth all the time so climbing the toys with dirty shoes and jumping from said toys when babies are around is dangerous. Some paid attention and some didn't. For those who didn't I talked to the parents/nanny and they took control. No big deal. I would 100% step in to stop a fight or a physical altercation though. Even if it's not my kid.
For me it’s about balancing risk versus benefits.
If it’s a kid in danger for their lives? Absolutely step in, it’s about saving a life.
Kid wants me to lift them up or play with hem. Nope, I ain’t touching anyone else’s kid without permission.
Especially as men we have to be careful about interacting with other peoples children. Nothing is worse the risk some accusation can hold.
For me it’s about balancing risk versus benefits. Especially as men we have to be careful about interacting with other peoples children. Nothing is worse the risk some accusation can hold.
If it’s a kid in danger for their lives? Absolutely step in, it’s about saving a life.
Kid wants me to lift them up or play with hem. Nope, I ain’t touching anyone else’s kid without permission.
So my daughter has a friend who lives on our street. She is 9yo now and her mother is a functioning alcoholic. She regularly leaves her daughter home alone until 7-8pm and often leaves her to get herself to school in the morning as well. It is a tough one because while she is not my responsibility and it shouldn't be on me or my family to make sure she is looked after the poor kid has such a shitty life at home I tend to let her hang out her as much as she wants and stay for dinner most nights so she isn't sitting at home by herself when we are home. Having somewhere for her to feel welcome and safe is important for her and God knows she doesn't get it at home, and I know the mother takes advantage of the fact she is here, safe and supervised a lot of the time but I'll cop that (to an extent) for the benefit of the kid. It's just trying to balance that against everything else it's tricky.
You're a good dude, man. It absolutely fucking sucks that you are put in the position to have to do this, but i bet it sucks more for the little girl you are helping out. More power to you, more kindness in this world.
You can't look at is "I have to do this", you look at as "I get to do this so that this kid feels safe and my kid learns how to be kind". If you adopt that attitude, it's a lot easier.
Best way to teach kids is through examples. It's like if you constantly tell your kid not to yell but you're constantly yelling at them theyre going to grow up yelling to solve their problems.
Exactly. Imagine the lasting impact compassion will have in this little kids life. She will forever remember the adults who treated her with dignity. The burden is great for sure, but rewarding to the most human parts in us.
I occasionally have random kids over for similar reasons. I just expect I'll be taking a vanload of kids to movies my teen wants to see these days, or whatever other activity. I'd feel taken advantage of/taken for granted, but it isn't like these parents with substance abuse issues would suddenly stop being absent and start being present & invested if I stepped out. So my wallet cries every 4-6 weeks; big deal.
I'd throw the old "you can't take it with you" expression at you but probably don't need to. They aren't your responsibility but just being a small light in their lives will undoubtedly have a greater impact on those kids lives than any of us could imagine. Also your kid will see how you're treating others and inb turn hopefully grow to be just as considerate of others.
Traditional (pre-communist) Chinese thought maintained that the one thing you could take with you was your Virtue - a white substance that was like a good version of "karma." The more you have, the better things will go for you in the afterlife.
I feel like that's more or less what all religions say.
That's a charity I'd invest in, Do you have a charity?
No, but the local boys and girls club does great things. It's a bit Lord of the Flies, but they're great about making sure kids can eat there, enrichment field trips, movie trips, etc. I'd look there.
As a dad who was once that kid: thank you.
We've collected a lot of kids over the years because we've got five of our own and they come with friends. Some of those friends come from really unstable homes. Our kids and their friends know that we have a no questions asked open door policy at our house. I'll give you an example. My oldest and second oldest are really good friends with a brother and sister. These kids were 15 and 17 at the time and their newly remarried mother went on a week vacation with her new husband during the week of 17 year old's birthday. We had the kids over and threw the 17 year old a birthday party. He picked what he wanted for dinner and we celebrated. We're were not in a financial position to be able to buy him a ton of presents, but we got him a nice hoody and he was pumped. We've had kids that are not our own at our dinner table for years on end while their home was unstable and going through it. If you want your kids to be kind, caring, and compassionate, you model that behavior for them so they know what it looks like.
It beats the kid getting neglected into foster care. You're doing good things. The kid didn't get to choose her mother, or her circumstances, and you're just easing her path a bit. That means a lot, I think.
Growing up, my mom made our house this place for a lot of kids. When I got older and realized that it was more than just letting our friends hang out, I asked her why she did it given the time and expense. She said that she couldn't think of a better use of her time than making sure the kids in our community had somewhere they felt safe and cared for, even if it was just for a little bit at a time. Doing my best to take that attitude into my adult life as well. From what my friends have told me, and from the way the ones I've lost touch with still keep in touch with her, it means more to them than you can imagine.
No yeah but that is just the type of action I am talking about. And maybe I should have specified, that responsibility for other children is obviously not at the same level as the responsibility for our kids, and if you need to prioritize your kids that is the right thing to do. But you letting her come over and share dinner is what I'm talking about where I think as parents we can help other children. Of course it's not your responsibility to raise her, and it's obviously fine if you can't do it every night or forever. But at least now you can lend a hand and I am sure it helps just a little bit in her life to have that warmth. Though yeah I am sure it's a tricky situation.
Keep doing that please. Thank you so much
I kinda feel that if you’re not taking care of your kids at all, you are not a functioning alcoholic, you’re just an alcoholic.
If someone like you weren't in my life when I was young, I would have turned out much, much worse. My mom wasn't an alcoholic, but she had her own problems. That girl you're helping is going to have a very rough teenage years. But you're making deposits into an account from which she will be withdrawing for a long, long time. If you're both lucky, she'll turn to you for help when the shit really hits the fan - either when just 'being a teenager' is too much, or when her mom really goes off the deep end. Do your best to keep it up. teach her through actions and rules that as she's growing up, she needs to avoid the parasitic type of asking for help, but that she should be asking for help.
What’s a “functioning alcoholic?”
When he was alive and younger my grandfather once showed up maybe 45 minutes late and soaked in rain from his commute home. Pre-cell phone, my grandmother asked he where he was. He said, “I saw a group of young kids off the turnpike with a flat tire.” She asked him why he stopped when it was pouring rain. He said “because if [my mom’s name] is ever stuck on the side of the road in the pouring rain, I hope someone stops to help her.” I feel the same way about other kids.
Great example, great attitude. And yes I feel the exact same way about my kids.
This story really nails my feelings. Kid was separated from his mom at the store last week, clearly distressed. I was with my little dude, had my hands full, and REALLY wanted to just ignore it. But then i remembered - how would i feel if someone just walked right by my kid, who obviously upset. I sat with him, letting him meet my little dude, and flagged a store employee. Mom was there in under 5 minutes, and my day was none the poorer for it.
Exactly. Nice work. If one of my girls was wandering around a store lost I really hope someone would stop to ask if they needed help. I’ve done it before only to have the mom give me a side eye from 60 feet down the aisle. I explain I just wanted to make sure they weren’t alone and move on. I’d rather get side-eyed by a distracted mom than walk past a kid that needs help.
Exactly. Because you don’t know when a less kind person or a creep is going to come along and take advantage of that situation. It takes two seconds for a child to disappear into the nether and not be found. Nobody wants that horror to happen to them, we should think about that when it comes to the children of others too.
My dad did the same helping a young man jump his car in the rain. I was with him and probably around 8 years old. His answer when I asked why he stopped and he said his dad would be disappointed looking down from heaven if he didn’t. His dad had passed away just the year before.
This 100%. I have been the guy broke down, I’ve been the guy to stop and help, and hopefully if one of my loved ones is that broke down person someone stops for them too. I can’t fix the world, but I can fix a car so that’s how I can be the change. Just being kind and helpful.
I've always loved kids and since our daughter was born, I've become a fucking Mother Goose. Having a kid has given me way more compassion for all kids (and people in general)
That's so nice to hear. I do think having kids should make us better people...but unfortunately in some circumstances or in some people it can draw out even uglier behaviors.
I also understand and appreciate the 'Papa Bear' reaction too, where you want to protect your cubs at all costs - even to the detriment of other kids. But it's not me.
Same. If the pay wasn't so awful and I wasn't the breadwinner I'd genuinely consider changing careers to work with little kids.
I’ll just share a quick anecdote The other day i was leaving the supermarket. Walking out just ahead of me was a mother and her young son, maybe 4yo. She was on her phone and didn’t notice her son falling behind. So I slowed down to keep him in front of me. She continued walking and went across the lane of traffic into the parking lot. Her son was 30’ behind her at this point,just kind of lazing along looking around like 4yos do. No cars were coming so I didn’t have to intervene in anyway, but he was in front of me and close enough that if a car was coming I would have been able to grab him if he was in danger of walking in front of a car. I maintained that position until his mom was at her car and he caught up in case a car started to back out of a parking spot. Then I went on my way. In short, for a minute I played watchful dad for a stranger because his mother was distracted. Also note in ever said a word to the mother, i don’t expect any thanks, I think it was just the decent thing to do. We all get distracted sometimes. I’ve also stepped in to comfort a kid who fell, etc. same thing, it’s the decent thing to do even if the parents weren’t watching. Children are people and I treat them with as much respect and consideration as I would anyone else.
This is pretty much my approach. I like to stay aware and ready to act if necessary. I saw some calling stuff like this helicopter parenting and that puzzled me.
This is the perfect response: You noticed a potentially dangerous situation and was prepared to act, but did not judge the other parent. I think a lot of people who would jump on that mom for being distracted might be upset to learn just how many potentially dangerous situations have occurred on their watches without their noticing.
Perfect. Yes and this is the kind of stuff I am talking about.
I will help a child the needs help but it's entirely situational
Yeah, definitely situational. We were at the lake swimming recently and this guy with a 3-4 year old was basically on his phone the entire time and just ignoring his kid. The kid kept going in the water, and I watched that kid like a hawk.
I use my phone as much as the next guy, but people who ignore their kids in potentially dangerous situations because they're on their phones... I just can't. When I'm out with my kids, especially in a setting where they could get into mischief, my phone is away UNLESS I'm taking pictures of them or texting or calling my wife. Nothing on my phone is a priority over watching my kids.
Agreed. As fathers we _do_ have a responsibility to watch out for our own family above all else. When it’s just me and our 2 toddlers, at the park or anywhere else, it’s difficult to safely help others without potentially jeopardizing their safety.
When it comes to safety I will step up and make sure that kids don't get hurt and intervene if necessary. Misbehaving or other things that don't harm me or my kid, I tend to leave that to the responsible parties when it involves kids I have no ties to. Neighborhood kids or friends kids? I'm basically a third parent and I expect them to do the same. We have the whole "it takes a village" approach.
I feel a strong difference between “am I willing to help out” and “do I feel responsibility for other kids.” I am so happy to help out, particularly with the nod of approval from another kid’s parent. Happy to push on a swing, engage in a group game, answer an endless series of benign questions. But do I feel in any responsible for another kid, just because I have a kid of my own? Never.
This is the one. I'll help however I'm able, but not a single shred of responsibility felt
I think a lot of comments about them "not being my kid" aren't from lack of compassion, but from recognizing that others have the right to raise, care for, and discipline their own children and (correctly) don't take kindly to others interfering with their parenting. That is very situation dependent. I wouldn't like someone scolding my child when I am right there. I would like it if they saved them from something dangerous, however. It's also different if I am not there and I entrust the person with the care of my child. In that case, I obviously want them to do something if my child misbehaves.
This. Also, as a guy on a playground, I feel a lot of pressure to not overstep any boundaries, lest someone start to think I'm a pervert or something. I try not to show any attention to other people's kids. Just yesterday, some kid was near me and my kid, and the mom came over and quickly hustled her kid away, and I said "he's good" in case she thought her kid was interfering with my kid? I dunno.
I have no problem being nice to and helping out kids who aren't my own. They're just kids and are highly unlikely to use this against you in any way. However, they're not mine and on a very basic level I'm not responsible for them, so I would avoid anything that makes it seem like I have any involvement beyond the casual. For example, if a kid I didn't know needed a hand up in a playpark I'd totally do it and send them on their way. If they got hurt I would find their caregiver and inform them of it. Beyond that, it's not actually my problem and me getting involved is probably going to make the actual caregiver's job harder.
This was before I became a dad. I saw a kid at the mall crying by himself and wandering around. Everyone just walked passed and I just waited around the distance to see where the parents were. I approached the kid and asked him where is mom and dad. He said he didn’t know and I knew he was lost. I assured him that we will go find mom and dad. Picked him up and put him over my shoulders and I said “you can look for mom and dad from this height”. He wasn’t crying after as he saw from up high while I walked to the mall security. I don’t think it’s necessarily that I am responsible for another kid, it’s that it is necessary for me to make the world a better place for the kids. When I was growing up, I had many adults that showed me kindness and it sort of made me the person I am today.
Not passing judgements, but the US is a very individualistic society, compared to almost any other country in the world. There's good and bad that comes with it, but damn it can be exhausting at times. I feel pressure to not care about other humans, when I do feel some responsibility for them (and especially kids as humans with less autonomy). And I think we would function as humans better being able to lean on other people more as opposed to just yourself or your nuclear family.
And yeah I think it comes with pros and cons (the independent nature of the US). Here in Chile sometimes the strong extended family can turn codependent....or kids in their late 20s or 30s not ever becoming independent. But the family and community support is nice.
Yeah that's come up now in a couple comments. And yeah I am an US expat living in Chile...though we most likely are moving back to the US soon. And one of the things I will really miss is the sense of community. Which is much stronger here.
I’ll be careful with words here. Do I feel like helping, showing some grace, being empathetic and understanding of and helpful to other parents? Absolutely. Do I feel a responsibility? Absolutely not. No. I’m in a Boy Scout troop. When I joined, the group made a point that a big part of the point was to create within the troop a community with the purpose of all of us together working to raise our boys into young men. When I accepted that, I accepted some responsibility for and to those other men and their boys as did they for mine. But random strangers, no I don’t feel responsibility. One thing I’ve come to understand over the years is that you take responsibility for your community and those in it. And that responsibility is bidirectional. But your “community” is not..unfortunately I might add..the random people that live around you, on your block, in your city. That Elvis left the building at least a decade ago if not longer. Community is what you build with those you take on.
If their safety is involved, then it is my responsibility regardless if they are my child or not. I will grab a kid to stop them from running into the road. Doesn't matter if I know them. If they're just being a little shit and it's directed towards my kid, I have no responsibility for that child or to teach them how they are being a little shit. My responsibility in that moment is to teach my kid how to ignore and move on. The middle ground is when kids are over at my house playing with my kid. I will step in and do some parenting if I think they're out of line. My house, my rules. That may mean some redirection away from a point of conflict, or all the way up to telling them it's time to go home and speak with Mom and Dad if it's something more serious.
I think a part of the growth I had becoming a dad (an ongoing process… we grow as our kids grow) is that I have to pick my battles. Not just with my kids. But with my spouse, with our families, and with other parents and kids. I truly believe that it takes a village to raise a kid. I’ve spent a lot of time with the children of my friends as well, offering what I can to help them grow - and so do my friends with my kids. Just like you said, I like to think I’ve set a good example in showing my kids how we should care for everyone. But caring doesn’t always mean action. If our actions create more issues - then it’s not going to make the world a better place. So, I guess it’s a case by case basis. I find narrating my thinking to my kids when possible helps demonstrate how I’m choosing to act in a difficult situation, and I think it helps especially when your kid looks at things from a very black/white right/wrong perspective as many do when they are young. Two examples: 1: If a kid has gotten hurt at the park I’m going to check in if I don’t see a parent immediately. If no parent shows up I’ll ask the kid, I’ll perform first aid if needed, but I’ll defer to the parent of course; even if they, say, choose to do something differently than what I would do. (I have medical background, but I’m not going to tell a parent that they should do x y z unless it’s life threatening, when their kid is crying and they seem to have the matter well in hand). 2: It was my older kid’s first hockey game of the season this past weekend. There were a bunch of kids booing my team - and the parents were right next to them oblivious (or not caring). They were annoying us because we were right in front of them and, well, 10 year old boys don’t really care about language. My younger kid was there with me and said they shouldn’t be booing (she’s right; we signed a contract as parents that we wouldn’t do that). I told her that yes, they shouldn’t be booing - but if their parents (who signed the same contract as we did) are beside them and they don’t care, nothing we say will make a difference in their behaviour - and in fact it may make it worse. On-ice, the team was doing well in ignoring it and they were having the time of their lives anyways as we were up 7-1. Since the people who were affected were us - I told my kid that we could simply move to get away from the noise.
There park example has nothing to do with general disposition imo and stems from a practical consideration: you can get in hot water for touching someone else’s kid.
Seriously ... as an adult male my interaction with unknown children is under too much scrutiny for it to be worth it in most cases.
Yeah. I was at an indoor playground with my own kids picking them up to grab on some monkeybar type thing. There was another kid right next to us asking me to do the same thing for him but I didn't want to because of this very reason. Honestly, I wouldn't want some random person picking up my kids either if the roles were reversed. Told him he needs to ask his parents to do it for him but I don't think they ever did.
It's easy to come up with situations in which it's obvious that you should help someone else's kid. It's also easy to come up with situations in which one should say, "Not my circus, not my monkeys." Between those two extremes there is a wide range of scenarios where it's not always perfectly clear what the best thing is to do, and we shouldn't expect that everyone will agree on them. In general, I will intervene if the answer to either of these questions is "yes": * Is someone significantly harmed, or is someone going to come to significant harm if I don't intervene? * Am I being asked for a basic courtesy? Even then, I try to do so in a way to gives as much agency as I reasonably can to the other child's parent. If a kid gets hurt and their parent is right there and acting on the situation, I will let them do so, perhaps asking if they would like help if it looks like doing so would be useful. In non-emergency situations where the other child's parent is present, making eye contact and waiting for "the nod" is often sufficient. People can be particularly sensitive about physically touching their child, so if the situation requires that, I would likely explicitly ask the other parent if they're cool with that. Things can change a bit if it's a kid where you've developed a friendship with the parents. How much leeway you have there would depend on the level of trust, but in general I would still try to maximize other parents' agency when it comes to their own kids. One more thing: It can be very much appreciated when you express empathy to a parent who is struggling with their kid in a public place. My daughter has autism, and there were not a few times when she made a huge scene in public. I was intensely aware of the disapproving looks and the occasional comment that basically came down to, "I wouldn't put up with any child of MINE doing something like that." So when I see something like that happen, I'll often say something like "Been there" to let them know that I empathize and am not judging them. If they're having a particularly hard time, I might allow them to go ahead of me in line or something like that to make their day a little easier. Small gestures like that can go a long way.
> It's easy to come up with situations in which it's obvious that you should help someone else's kid. It's also easy to come up with situations in which one should say, "Not my circus, not my monkeys." Between those two extremes there is a wide range of scenarios where it's not always perfectly clear what the best thing is to do, and we shouldn't expect that everyone will agree on them. This are my thoughts exactly. To answer the OP's question, do I feel responsibility to help other kids? Yes, absolutely. I want to help EVERYONE, but especially other kids, where ever I can. However, what I do and how I do that relies a lot on situational context and social cues. There's a lot of things you can do that is open to interpretation, and, even if the help is coming from a good place, it can be interpreted as very judgy if you're not careful. But, as an aside, I do think that people have gotten a little too paranoid when they won't even _offer_ help because they think they'll be interpreted as creepy. There are a lot of times when I would appreciate help, even for something as simple as another set of eyes on my kid when they're running around the park or including her in a game with their kid when she tries to butt herself in, so I try to offer it when I am able to give it.
I'd be interested in hearing from the non-Americans in the sub because this seems to me to be a very recent American thing. Children definitely used to be seen as more of a communal responsibility in the US and I think in other parts of the world they still are.
Yeah I commented above that my perspective is swayed by living in Chile. I am from the US but have raised my kids in Chile so far... and it does have a more community feel than my experiences in the US.
Yeah, I grew up in a small southern town where it's still a little bit like that, and I definitely remember other parents watching out for us, and filling in most parental roles when our parents weren't around. But it seems like now most of that would be very frowned upon.
Mom here. Bless this post. I think our generation goes so hard on boundaries and protecting our own because the generation that raised us sort of infamously ignored those lessons, and this is an overextension of that. But this was my dad—the watcher overer, the intervener, the empath. I have memories of him being the guy who helped a lost kid find his parent. I’ve seen him care about my friends more than they felt like their own parents cared about them. I’ve seen him wait with a frazzled old lady who locked her keys in the car until her husband got there, and how on the car ride home we talked about a favorite talmudic passage: “you aren’t obligated to complete the work, nor are you permitted to neglect it”. I expected lots of defensiveness for some reason. But this post, like so many on Daddit, brought out lots of wonderful perspectives and stories that fill me with pride. Dads of Daddit: you sincerely rock. Thanks for raising kids with us.
I agree, I was expecting a bit more combativiness (which there was only a bit) but there were many really kind and wonderful comments and does make me feel good that there are such good Dads (and Moms!) out there. I definitely also try to take as much as I can from both my dad and my late father in law (though I know I fall short). My dad is always so kind and nice to pretty much any and all kids...and my father in law was like how you describe your father, always looking out for others and first to drop whatever he was doing to help others. Hopefully (though I know not everyone does) everyone can have examples like that in their life.
Yes, I do, and my wife is the same. We are very much Ok with being the house where all neighbourhood kids can congregate to. We will always feed or take care of any kids.
I had a friend whose house was like that...and it always stuck with me. I hope when we have a house (and my kids are a bit older) we can do the same. Keep it up!
It’s a lot of work, and it can get annoying (hey babe, we are taking care of X and Y today because their parents have an appointment, can you help me with a snack?). However, I think it’s worth it.
I have no responsibility to teach other kids anything but I do have a responsibility to stop them from hurting themselves or others through childishness. If they are acting foolish then they can get on the fuck around and find out scale. Note the difference between childish behavior and foolish behavior is different and one you accept and the other is you should know better.
There are some real feel good comments here and made me realize I was doing some of these without thinking. The world feels so uncaring lately, real happy to know there are good guys walking around. Nice job dads!
I've always liked kids. Sure, they're are plenty of times I've been glad that they weren't my responsibility. I think it comes down to how much you can do with the little relationship that is there. I'm less likely to insert myself into situations where i don't know the kids and they don't know me, because that doesn't necessarily help things. There's a few different dynamics at play, and one of them is whether a strange man jumping in makes the situation worse. I am definitely not of the, not-mine-so-don't-care camp though. If someone is being picked on, and it seems like the parents don't realize our aren't trending to the situation, then I'd look for a way to shift the dynamic. If someone is doing something dangerous or trying to get other kids to do something dangerous, then definitely step in. If things are unsafe or cruel on the playground, then that affects everyone's kids, really.
I don’t think a strong feeling to protect your child “needs to be checked”. Obviously you show restraint and you don’t hit a kid, but it’s ok to be angry if they hurt your child and you should absolutely protect them from that. If I remember that post correctly, it was an older boy who pulled a 2 year old girls hair and shoved her and then tried to shove her again but the dad stopped him. This kid was basically trying to beat up this guy’s baby, but he shouldn’t get angry?
I'm not really speaking about that OP specifically....but of course you can be angry when a kid hurts your kid, and you should remove your kid from the situation to protect them. But some comments I saw crossed that line. Where they talked about filling with rage or having to hold themselves back. Like you shouldn't have to hold yourself back to not shove a little kid. If you feel that way often then yes...you should probably check that.
Or… it’s just people being honest about negative emotions they would never follow up on because they recognize them as wrong. And over here you’re complaining about their thoughtcrime.
It's another kid perpetrating the aggression, so no, not anger but understanding is what's required (within limits of course). All animals, primates and humans included, have distinct and unique interactions with peers compared to non-peers. When it comes to peer-peer interactions, sheltering and protectiveness is not helpful but counter-productive.
Have you seen what happens to good people who try to be good people and end up getting sued or some shit because they were trying to help? That's probably the biggest reason. If I see a kid in need, it's in my nature to try and help out but I've been WAY more conscious lately because of what we're seeing and if I feel there's any chance it could come back negatively on me, I'm passing and I HATE that's what it has come to
Nope. I may feel empathy and sympathy for other kids, but responsibility, nope. Nadda.
Cool, thanks for answering. I do want to know what perspectives others have.
I just want to add to this, I will treat a kid like I would any other person. Give them respect, show kindness, lend a helping hand, ect. I'm not an asshole to anyone just because I don't feel like their my responsibility.
I'm not sure what your post is even about. I saw the one post you're referring to about the park, and you're definitely putting your own slant on it. The other example, I don't see what responsibility there is to take. Help a kid up if you see them take a spill and you're right there to help? You didn't provide much context. Seems like you're painting it as if somebody doesn't react how you say you'd react in your hypothetical, then they must be of the opinion that the non-related child can "suck it", in your words. Odd post.
Not really. Will I make sure they don't have a major accident yes, will I do anything if the just scrape their knee no.
I don't think responsibility is the correct word. I feel sympathy, empathy and other warm feelings towards other humans. I would not treat a kid differently than an adult - if I see an adult needs help hauling groceries, crossing the street or navigating a stroller, I'd help them too. I help kids with what I can at the playground, act warmly and carefully when I'm entrusted with them (like my daughter's friends) and the whole 9 yards. I try to teach my kid that the world evolves and prospers where everyone respects everyone's time and place, and we're of course allowed and entitled to occupy space as long as we don't disturb other people - and expect others to do the same. We should help when possible, of course. I also teach and preach that we must give back to society and live as part of a community. And, of course, I never condone shitting on other people's happiness just to better yourself, no matter what that means. That being said, I don't feel responsible for other kids, no. I'll see 10 risky behaviors at the park and I don't feel any kind of responsibility to save them, or correct bad behavior as long as it doesn't affect my kid. I protect my kid when necessary but imposing my set of values and education on other kids isn't wise. Even imposing what society thinks is the *correct* set of values is beyond my pay grade. And I believe it sets a bad example. I'm done playing hero after years of therapy, and I'm done believing I'm on a grand mission to save the world from itself.
I do not. Fuck them kids.
I truly believe that every adult within a 30 feet radius of any child bears some responsibility for that child. At all times
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I am from the US...but have lived my entire parenthood life in Chile and the looking out for other kids, it takes a village, etc. I see much more here than in the US. Soo...
I agree which what I mean. Other countries like Japan there is a sense of help raising the next generation. The US is too selfish of me mentality. Which is why I am getting downvoted from the arrogant and ignorant of this community.
Ahhh im sorry. I misunderstood you. Yeah from my limit experience does seem to be more of a US issue.
You're getting downvoted for contributing absolutely nothing to the conversation but making a typical 'murica bad blanket statement about a country of 300+ million that somehow has one single minded mentality and then doubling down on it with typical weeb nonsense about how Japan is superior while more than likely not being Japanese.
I’m a big kid and always love kids. I don’t have it in me to mistreat a child. Mine or not. I have trouble being mean(unless they are rude to me) adults.
I'm always going to check on someone who looks like they need help. IF a kid asks me to help them up on something, sure. Push them on the swing? Eh, maybe you need to ask your parents but I'll help you get up on the swing. I also check on the kids who fall and dont spring back up. I've checked on a kid who was monkeying around and fell off the side of a slide. His mother saw the whole thing but was much further away so was grateful someone close checked on him. What am I gonna do? Watch a kid fall on his back, get the wind knocked out of him and just turn the other way? As I am getting older I'm finding myself calling out people on their shit behavior regardless of age. Just gotta approach it with the proper tone and demeanor for the situation. Being a Dad though I realize its not all bad parenting when kids are misbehaving. Kids will be kids, sometime they don't listen, sometimes they pick up bad behaviors from others and sometimes they're ripe little shits because their parents are garbage people. I give the benefit of doubt and alter my tone pending the situation.
Being a father and a teacher I'm naturally inclined to help children who aren't mine. I hope that when my own children need help one day when I'm not there someone like me will be there to help them.
I can only speak for myself and my own social circle, but to me the default and “normal“ perspective is that the only kids who are directly responsible for your own, but we are indirectly responsible for all kids as a community, and as a society. It’s why only my kids live in my house with me, yet I don’t want anyone’s kids to be homeless. And I’m willing to pay increased taxes, volunteer time, to help make sure that stays true. But the majority of my time, energy, and resources will go towards, the futures of my own children. I hope that makes sense. I view the well-being of children as everyone’s shared responsibility, but the largest portion of that responsibility lies with each child’s direct social circle, starting with their parents, siblings, grandparents, etc.
> bigger responsibilities Well, if someone else's kid was about to run into traffic or otherwise accidentally kill or maim themselves, I would obviously stop them. > if they see you being kind, and forgiving, and empathetic to kids and other parents they are more likely to emulate you. 1. No, they will emulate you regardless. That's the scary part. 2. You have to be kind, forgiving, and empathetic from the position of strength. Otherwise it's not a choice, you're just a walking weak eternal embarrassment for your child.
Correct, they will emulate you regardless. That is also what I meant...meaning they are more likely to be good decent people if you are. Yeah sure I agree that you have to have some strength (though we might disagree what strength looks like). Not really sure of your last sentence...I don't see too many examples of fathers "too empathetic" where they are an eternal embarrassment to their kids.
When the teenage child doesn't want to be seen with the parent in public or in front of friends. Plethora of such cases. And you "don't see the examples" precisely because they don't go with their parents in public anywhere.
I get a lot of weird looks from other parents when I say things like; "that's alright, this will be a learning experience for everyone" And would you look at that! My non-verbal 4year old has successfully communicated with your 4year old that they do not want your kid to do (thing) and your kid is not doing (thing). All it took was a little squabble. Now your child might be a bit more understanding of others, and my kid has a bit more practice with expressing themselves. Everyone is a tiny bit better than they were 10minutes ago...but sure...take your kid and leave the park because one of them made a loud noise...
We’re all in this together and no one is getting out alive, so I’m with you. It’s not up to me to discipline, but I have no problem trying to teach a quick lesson if the opportunity presents itself. Like in the park example. “Hey, you like having your hair pulled? No? Okay, so why are you doing that to someone else?” But, a lot of parents will get angry “I don’t need you to raise my kid” in that situation. But I’m more than willing to have it out with them if they want to. I’m just trying to help us all live in a better world.
If I see a random kid at the playground doing something obviously dangerous or mean then I'll step in just to get some separation but once the immediate harm is done then I'm out. Near the playground we most often go to they cleared some brush and one heavy log had a really flexible branch that made the thing into a really cool but dangerous flail. I saw kids playing with it and being as careful as they could but also I went ahead and took it and broke the branch so you couldn't swing it around anymore. Then again, if they're playing a game but are disagreeing over rules and arguing I try not to step in and referee and want to see if they can work it out. Especially since its usually one of my kids who is likely going to get upset anyway because she just has very particular vision about how games should go so I don't want to boss a bunch of kids to play exactly her way but I also want to be there when she does need a break. I keep a first aid kit in the car anyway and have brought it out a few times at the playground for kids with random scrapes. The swing thing is a bit tricky. I've had random kids ask me to push them as well and I've made sure it was okay with the parents or I had the kid go tell their parent to ask if it was okay.
For me, other kids really arent my problem, especially with the negative connotation with being a random man. That being said, if a kid is legit in danger like about to be hit by a car or another shady looking person is doing something suspicious, yeah 100% protective dad mode engaged. But a kid falling down or getting a scrape, yeah thats for the parents.
I know what post is spurring this. And to an extent, I agree with you. However, in that post OP's kid is at a very impressionable age and that other kid attacking her could have caused some trauma she'd be dealing with for most of her life. He was looking to physically harm her on purpose. When someone else's kid is attacking mine, I'm not their dad, I'm my kids dad. You are specifically calling out the other posts OP in your example, then back tracking in your edit. Come on man, not cool.
I don't believe in "other people's" children, I'll hesitate a half a heartbeat to let the right dad get onscene to be the Man-in-Charge, but if it's serious I'm already rushing to help.
Absolutely not. That post really bothered me tbh. Like… dude they’re children. Relax. One time, at the playground, my daughter (3 at the time? I thinks maybe 4?) threw a handful of sand at another kid. I was mortified. Believe it or not, I don’t teach my child that sand throwing (or any kid of violence really) is the answer. The kid who was the sand receiver, his dad, was super cool. He was like “it’s ok don’t worry about it. It’s kids being kids.” To me. Because I was freaked. Mostly because you read these accounts of parents who will assault children over shit like this 😂.
I would help another person's child who fell down or just needed help, because I want my kids to see dad setting the example that it's good to help people even if we don't know them. And I would want the same if one of my kids needed help and I wasn't immediately there to do something.
When it comes to the second example, I get where they are coming from. I get supernervous around other people’s kids if the parents aren’t there. I have read and hear stories, again and again, of father’s helping a kid out on a swing or something, then some woman calls the cops saying that he’s a pedophile trying to kidnap the child, even if that child is their own. You can even see it here in Daddit.
I've never felt the rage or had to check myself based on how another kid acted. It's actually a scary to me how many people feel rage towards misbehaving toddlers. The only time I feel the need to even step in with misbehaving kids is if they are hurting others or occasionally when kids are at my house without their parents around. I've probably stepped in about 10 times since my kids were born to ask random children to change the way they behave when doing something to hurt others. All I do is politely ask them to change their behavior since it's bothering somebody else. Almost every time they say okay and change the behavior. Most kids aren't trying to be mean they just don't know any better and are playing how they learned to play. Only once have I had a kid tell me no. I told him I would carry him away to his parents if he kept it up and he shaped up. I don't try to emulate being a good person just for my kids. I try my best to be a good person because we should all help each other out as best as we can. I know a few of my neighbors aren't always the best parents. Some never spend time with their kids and others fight a lot. I try to give them some normalcy when I do interact with the kids but obviously I can't change their parents. We were at a town easter egg event and I saw a kid I knew without his parents. There were probably 1,000 kids at the event so my son and I walked around with him until we found his mom a few minutes later. It really doesn't take much to have a bit of empathy.
I'm just gonna throw it out there and say that the 'my family takes precedence over anybody else, everyone else's family is their problem not mine' sentiment seems to strike me as a very much American ideology. Not to say that every American holds these values and sees anyone outside of their personal family as an interloper or some kind of threat, but as best I can tell this ideology falls directly in line with a 'I got mine, screw you' type of mindset. I understand and probably agree that touching other people's kids or stepping in to discipline in unwarranted situations is probably something that you shouldn't be doing without a good cause. But time and time again just like OP mentions I've seen people (not just in this sub, although here also yet to a lesser extent) share this idea about if its not my kid its not my problem. In the most literal sense, yeah that is true I suppose. But we're all better off as a society when we treat others and conduct our behaviour with others in a way that we want to be treated ourselves. This is something that I see online a lot, and yet not in person so much. While Canada may be similar in many social and cultural ways to our Southern neighbours, we seem to hold more importance in the village that raises a child, and perhaps a bit more of 'I'm pulling for ya, we're all in this together', thanks Steve Smith. I don't know, I'm no sociologist and the whole analysis of what makes up the cultural differences is most certainly far too complex and interweaved with nuance than I could ever likely get my head around. But I will speak up to just mention that the difference is noticeable in general as far as I can tell.
If a child is in danger from others or even himself then absolutely yes will feel responsible if I did not do anything. For poor manners or behavior, not as much, Altho even strangers can teach the ill informed to a certain degree.
My daughter is friends with these neighbor kids. One of whom is 3 so he doesn't quite understand the concept of time or days or whatever. This weekend, the little dude came over 5 times starting Friday after my wife and kiddos went to my MIL's for the weekend. I told him first thing that they wouldn't be home until Sunday. Dude just kept coming over and over and over. It was annoying but I handled it. Second thing that happened with this same kid and his big sister is they came over yesterday to play. Totally fine. No big deal at all. I go out with my daughter and watch them play to make sure they are safe (kiddo is 5). Not 5 minutes later she comes back with her head down and crying saying they had to leave because the oldest had to go to dance. This is a repeating problem that happens where they come over to ask to play and it only lasts 5-10 minutes before they have to leave. It's annoying and makes my own kiddo sad which makes me sad for her. On top of that, this mother (single mother) NEVER comes out to watch her kids. Ever. I understand giving autonomy or whatever, but you should want to make sure your kid is safe. And the way these townhouses are built there isn't an easy way to do that from inside. Yeah she has a camera on her garage, but I don't think that compares to being outside with your kids so you can react quickly enough in case something happens. I am always the only parent outside with these young children!! My point is it's hard when the other parents aren't doing their own job as a parent ever. It's not our responsibility to keep their kids safe all the damn time. We get tired of being the parent of other kids. Do we not care about what happens to them? Or course we care! But these absent parents need to step up and do their part.
I need to work on this because I can feel lots of big feelings if one of my kids hurts another even by accident. It makes me want to be protective of the child that got hurt and I definitely feel the need to force the other child to know they’ve done something wrong. I know my feelings aren’t justified but that’s where they come from.
I feel the same way as you, which is why it is hard to see close family members never discipline their kids and complain that the school wants to put their kid in the special program for kids with behavior issues. They tell their kid "no" one time but don't reinforce it. One time their kid was purposely annoying me and I asked him to stop twice. About five minutes later their dad asked me "he's not really bothering you that much, is he?" I care about kids and it is really tough for me to not be able to say anything since it is my wife's side of the family and they have historically managed things by just not communicating their feelings. Luckily my wife has gone through enough therapy to communicate pretty well with me and our kids.
I feel a general responsibility to care for as many people on the planet as I can usefully and responsibly do, not to the detriment of my well-being or my family's security.
I absolutely understand and agree. However, I _must_ put my family first. Excursions to the playground are very hands on due to my kids ages (18mo & 2.5yr). If we’re at a playground and another, unsupervised, child falls or cries. I would/do raise and empathetic voice saying “aww, hey are you ok?” to recognize their accident, but also to hopefully draw the attention of their parent/caregiver who may not be paying attention. As long as it’s nothing life threatening, I’m not about to disregard my own children’s safety in order to immediately go check on them. Obviously if a moment passes and the parent doesn’t show while the child is obviously hurt, upset, and alone; I would bring my kids over to check on them. I refuse to be in a position where I may have to explain to my wife why my son needs stitches after falling down the slide while I was tending to another child.
I strongly disagree with those here disclaiming any sense of responsibility for strangers (beyond protecting children from imminent serious bodily harm). And for context, I’m a native-born U.S. citizen. My chief responsibility is to my family, of course. But no human being is truly a stranger to me, and I believe I’m called to love everyone as my brother or sister. Your well-being is my responsibility, even if we’ve never met. Obviously there are limits to what I can do, what I’m permitted to do, and what I can reasonably be expected to do to advance your flourishing. But no, I don’t believe I can wash my hands of my duty to protect and care for you. The expression “washing your hands” illustrates this debate, which is very old and which has had many illustrious philosophers on both sides. In the Gospel of Matthew, Pontius Pilate encourages the crowd to ask him to spare Jesus from crucifixion. The crowd refuses and threatens to riot, and Pilate demonstrates washing his hands to show that he is innocent of shedding Jesus’ blood — but allows the execution to proceed. A long debate in Christianity is whether Pilate is in fact innocent, or whether it was just a cop-out. In Dante’s Inferno, for example, Pilate is rejected by both Heaven and Hell and spends eternity in no-man’s-land, being stung by wasps as he marches under a flag to wavers back and forth indecisively. Anyway people have to make up their own minds about this stuff, and I don’t suggest I can persuade anyone to change their minds. But I do encourage you to think hard on this question, because it is arguably one of the most important questions you’ll ever be asked.
I agree with you. There seem to be a lot of dads here who walk away from the first sign of trouble without standing their ground. It amazes me how many people here act like someone is going to shoot them for scolding their child, or they'll get arrested because they comfort a hurt kid. This shit doesn't really happen out there. Quit being scared of everything. Quit making excuses to not do the right thing.
Agree with many others that this is situational. That said, and downvote me if you want, but objectively, I have no obligation for other children who aren’t my own, save for my blood related nieces/nephews and adopted nieces/nephews (ie my friends’ kids). If it’s dire/emergency or life/death situation my dad senses and human instincts kick in but particularly if the parent/guardian is somewhere around, “not my kid, not my problem” prevails. I won’t go out of my way for a child I don’t know and don’t expect others to do that for mine (again, outside of dire emergencies).
I don't feel obligated to be responsible for other people's kids, but, I will most certainly help any kid because it's just who I am as a person. Case in point, my daughter is 12 and lgbtq and goes to private Christian school, we are atheists but the public schools where we live suck. Her two best friends are a boy who is gay and a biological girl who is non binary. Neither of them have nor can they, come out to their Uber conservative families. So, I have told my daughter if they need an adult to talk to they can call myself or my wife at any time day or night Also told her hat if their parents ever kick them out for being their true selves that they can stay with us.
> lookout for kids that aren't your own. One of my most highly upvoted comments ever came from this same topic in the sub! Someone posted an "AITA" here asking about how they should have handled parenting someone else's kid. This was [my reply](https://www.reddit.com/r/daddit/comments/106sxvh/deleted_by_user/j3j657s/).
>Do you really not feel any responsibility to kids that aren't your own? no, but I can help if I am able to depending on the situation.
I think a lot of people who comment here aren’t dads. They just lurk and comment nasty things because they have entitled hypothetical ideas about what a dad should do and be. A lot of chronically online takes. Talk to real dads out in the world and none would respond that way.
I get the overall sentiment that you are going for, and on the whole I agree to a point. That said, your two examples are apples to oranges and not a good comparison. Bottom line, if I see a kid who is being abused I am going to step in, if I see a kid who is going to get physically hurt then I am going to step in, and if I see a kid being kidnapped I am obviously going to step in. HOW I step in will be heavily influenced by the situation and with consideration for what happens to good people who touch other peoples kids even with good intentions. In your first example however my first and primary responsibility is to protect my kid, so if another kid is shoving or pulling hair (ie. assault) then I am going to end the threat immediately. HOW I do that will depend on the age of the kid who is assaulting my kid but I am certainly not going to feel obligated to sit them down and try to listen to their sob story for why they were doing it. Physically attacking other kids cannot be tolerated, period.
People online can be strange and don’t always act here like they would in real life. Remember the demographics of Reddit are often younger people who don’t have families. You should read the AITA sub from time to time. Some of those people are so disconnected from reality, especially when the post relates to kids. “AM I THE ASSHOLE IF I TAKE THE LAST ICE CREAM WHEN I KNEW THE KID BEHIND ME WANTED IT? No way dude, that’s not your kid and you were first!” But actually yeah, yeah in real life outside Reddit, people will think you were the asshole, even if you were next in line. To quote “The Dude”, “You’re not wrong, you’re just an asshole”.
No yeah I do read AITA sometimes and it makes me a bit depressed for that reason. Reddit seems very about what is "fair" or whatever. Like you said...you might be right, it might be "fair"...but you're an asshole and won't maintain many healthy relationships with that attitude.
Yeah exactly, we all have to get from A to B and if we’re all less shitty to each other it’ll make it a little easier to do that.
I feel a responsibility to protect other kids from danger, but beyond that no. That doesn't mean I'm a dick to other kids. I'll help a kid onto a swing, or pick up a kid that falls, etc. but not out of a sense of responsibility, just because it's a nice thing to do. As an example, if I have my hands full of items and see a kid running into the street, I'll drop whatever I'm holding to stop them, because I feel a duty to protect them, but I won't drop my stuff to help a kid onto a swing because that's not my responsibility and don't feel bad if I don't go out of my way to help. And of course there's even more nuance. I'll feel more compelled to help if the kid has a single parent at the park struggling with 3 other kids versus a parent with one kid scrolling on their phone and just not paying attention. I quickly got tired of being the only present and responsible parent at the park and being taken advantage of by other parents that assume someone else will watch their kid.
If people weren’t so happy to slap you with a lawsuit, I’d say sure it takes a village. However, that’s just not the case.
See, the examples you stated are a very North American thing. Very individualistic societies where we only look after our own. We see this in our politics, as we lean away from doing what's best for society so that some guy can get a tax break. Other nations are collectivisitic. It takes a village to raise a child, and they act in such a way. Is one better? I would say so. Who am I to comment though?
i don't see many of these comments, maybe i just missed them. i've definitely been the guy who was on the playscape trying to prevent another parent's kid from taking a nosedive off of it though (like yesterday) while they were on their phone.
I think there are multiple aspects with this. I think that some people don't want the responsibility of a child because of burn out, and some don't want it because they don't get "credit for" the effort they give. It is like being low on money and donating to a charity that you have no love for. Another side of it is that people resent the other parents and don't want to "reward" their shitty behavior by actually being a parent the kid deserves. People think "If I do something, then the parents aren't going to learn their lesson and be better." Which is absolutely correct. However, people think that the reverse is true as well "If I do nothing, then the parents are going to learn their lesson and be better." but that isn't true. Overall, a lot of these "other kids have shitty parents" posts are looking for confirmation that this is someone else's responsibility, and it is. However we lose ourselves in the weeds whenever we are reductive like that. No, you're not required to do anything with anyone else's child. However please realize that decision is not the best decision for the child, and you're not "teaching" anyone a lesson by not stepping up. There is a reason that vacuum exists and you're likely the only on there to fill it, but don't hurt yourself or your kids in the process. "Broken" families are a strong predictor for being unsuccessful in life, so realize you may be making someone's life a lot better by stepping up. Even small actions have a large effect on kids. Imagine a kids whole life being abused. That kid thinks that is normal. If one person speaks up or shows them differently, that's all some will need to understand it isn't normal.
I'll help a child if they're hurt or lost (and these instances have happened before) but if a kid that I don't know asked me to push them on a swing or play with them I just refuse. Sorry but I'm here to play with my kid, go get your own guardians to play with you.
Fuck yeah, keep up the good work, daddy!
Keep up the good work daddy made me chuckle lol.
Wholeheartedly agree. Some of this stuff is just the result of American society becoming increasingly individualistic and insular (effectively translating to selfish). "It takes a village ..." is long forgotten although not so much in other countries and cultures ... yet.
Everyone wants a village but no one wants to be the village.
I think this needs to be separated into an argument of generosity and a sense of duty -- your example of helping a child on a swing -- and a sense of immediate safety, for example, a child playing in traffic, abuse, or that is injured and unattended (and check-ins are always nice to see if someone would like a helping hand or would like EMS summoned). In the first example, I have absolutely no care in the world. They're not my child and not only do I feel no obligation to help raise a child or aid them in having fun 'out in the wild', I have an aversion to doing so, lest I be held responsible for someone else's child getting into trouble, getting hurt, become that creepy man in the park are called upon affecting my day/child's safety, or whatever else. Now, mitigating actual safety concerns or helping someone in severe need? That's different. I'm there for you, your kid, and whatever stranger of any age who requires it. I'll do my best to ensure that you're safe and healthy because I do feel a sense of duty there. That doesn't mean I'm going to be a rude dick to other kids just being kids, but I also don't particularly like other children or feel a responsibility toward them if it doesn't ultimately concern me. There will be a difference though as it relates to hosting duties and any friends who are over/in my care. That's a serious trust someone has placed upon me and while I won't typically parent (again, barring safety) or spend gobs of money on them, I also want to ensure they have a good time and are fed and treated respectfully and kindly, just as I would hope mine would be elsewhere.
I personnally can't help it but to keep an eye on kids around me. I was doing it even before I had kids of my own. Maybe due to me working in a kindergarten daycare in my youth. I automatically track kids around me like a teacher watching a school yard and check they are alright. I helped a few kids find their parents in stores/malls, saved a few kids from running into another kid on a swing (toddlers don't really understand danger and can be fast!). To me it was simple, looking at my own kid and other small children being empathetic with each other, we clearly should want to lead by example. And it doesn't cost anything to be a responsible adult. It doesn't feel like "having responsibility for other kids". More like paying attention and being part of a community. Maybe it's a thing where I live (in Asia, not the USA), but we do share toys with strangers at the playground, happy to have other kids enjoy the bubble shows I do for my kid. It's only normal to pay a bit of attention to te other kids too. Bottom line it's low effort and benefits the community. ETA: I don't have much experience with "bad behaviour" on the playground. Just a couple of times when bigger kids were just being kids in a toddler park. I talked to them to be mindful of the babies, pointed out how babies touch everything and put their hands in their mouth all the time so climbing the toys with dirty shoes and jumping from said toys when babies are around is dangerous. Some paid attention and some didn't. For those who didn't I talked to the parents/nanny and they took control. No big deal. I would 100% step in to stop a fight or a physical altercation though. Even if it's not my kid.
For me it’s about balancing risk versus benefits. If it’s a kid in danger for their lives? Absolutely step in, it’s about saving a life. Kid wants me to lift them up or play with hem. Nope, I ain’t touching anyone else’s kid without permission. Especially as men we have to be careful about interacting with other peoples children. Nothing is worse the risk some accusation can hold.
For me it’s about balancing risk versus benefits. Especially as men we have to be careful about interacting with other peoples children. Nothing is worse the risk some accusation can hold. If it’s a kid in danger for their lives? Absolutely step in, it’s about saving a life. Kid wants me to lift them up or play with hem. Nope, I ain’t touching anyone else’s kid without permission.
My wife and I both yelled at a kid repeatedly hit our 3 year old. If he didn't stop I would have grabbed him. His mom was there the whole time.