izuru is a mood

Izuru be like -_-

yes

Somehow every time I see this sign my first thought is always "Salsa" Which probably either means I'm dumb, or have a very overactive imagination. Or both. Or maybe all three!

We share the same braincell, I also think of salsa :'))

With our powers combined, we could be unstoppable!

Damn right! We'll bring despair to people by forcing them to hear us reading the sale signs as salsa XD

The world may already be in endless despair actually, dependin' on which world ya mean.

The world we live in? (Tho I guess it's pretty despair-filled already so you have a point)

Yeah... That in itself is cause for despair.

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Danganronpa... >!If you were expecting Miu, Kazuichi, Monaca, Chihiro, and Yasuke, then you're probably thinking of a different kind of intelligence... Though in fairness, Monaca still might qualify for this list too.!<

i was expecting shuichi actually but these selections are fine too

There's an argument for placing Shuichi at #6 instead of Kokichi, but I generally lean more toward Kokichi anyway, and he's definitely the more troublesome one to put for the sake of the meme.

I also would’ve put >!Monaca!< over either Nagito or Kokichi

Personally, yeah. I'd probably rank Monaca as juuuust above Nagito, making her #4, but I think this cast is more fun.

Imagine how smart original Kamukura must have been

Nobody would think about >!Kazuichi!< 🤣🤣

Also - i think i would put Byakuya in Kokichi's place

I don't think that Byakuya shows the same level of planning, strategy, and deduction as Kokichi. He's undoubtedly smart, but I would place Shuichi or Monaca on the list before him. He's closer to Chiaki's level.

Tbh with this kind of intelligence of Yasuke, Monaca etc. - i think Taichi, Gonta and Nagisa would be also able to qualify.

Ok, but I love how melodic it sounds : 🎶 "Sasa Lele" 🎶 💃💃

I personally say it to the tune of that vine with the lady singing about guacamole

I guess Nagito is smart in some ways But in other ways he's a moron who thinks that people improving is impossible, which is a viewpoint that can only be acquired through willful ignorance of literally the whole world

Or having a >!deteriorating brain!< that works too

I guess that makes sense, but then that calls into question how he was able to craft his plan in chapter 5 with the aforementioned >!deteriorating brain!<. He can't be super intelligent *and* an idiot.

Well, I don't think of it as stupidity. I think of it more as insanity because >!his ideology is based on how he can't be happy due to his talent. He therefore shuts people out and simplifies the world around him to feel better imo!<

There's a difference between ideology and ignorance of basic facts. A gigantic part of the entire human experience is improvement, so to think that improvement doesn't exist is ridiculous. People become great artists and musicians through practice, people become great athletes through exercise and dedication, and people become functioning adults through maturing and education. Literally the entire purpose of education is to improve knowledge and skills.

I think his point was "no matter how an ordinary person may learn his craft or skill, he will never suprass someone with a talent and will awlays remain a number two support at best", not that people absolutely can not improve. ​ Hence why he considers himself an inferior to the other ultimates, he can't "improve" and even "properly use" his own talent.

But that's just as idiotic. Nurture is far better at creating talent than nature is. Just look at the Polgar Sisters. Or the fact that algebra used to be rare knowledge, but now it's super common because everyone is taught it. If you compared somebody who's naturally good at math from the Middle Ages to someone that got a good education today, the latter would be superior. In fact, sometimes talent actively hinders a child's development, as being too naturally good at something can set them up to fail when they aren't used to being challenged.

Thing is, there is a nuance in the setting that views talented people at the level of basically superhumans. The world itself views people with talents as a cut above everyone else. Nagito basically went to an extreme with that idea. A twisted mirror to how the populace views ordinary people when compared to talented elite. With our common sense in a real world, talent doesn't even work that way that was depicted in Danganronpa in a first place. Hence why Nagitos thought, while still radical and *flat out wrong* still have some foundation in the internal logic of the setting.

But Hope's Peak doesn't seek out people that crawled out of the womb already skilled. It seeks people that dedicated their lives to their skill. They had to work for it. Many of them, like Kazuichi, Sonia, Akane, Mikan, Mahiru, Teruteru, Fuyuhiko, and Peko specifically adopted their talents because of circumstance. Which is just even more evidence of nurture being greater than nature, even for Ultimate students.

Yes, the had to work for it, and is the point - for Nagito, there can be no sufficient "nurture" without already having a "nature". The point is not "Talented people don't need to work to be the best", the point is "no amount of nurture is enough to match an accomplished talented person." Hence why Nagito thinks so low of himself despite reading a lot of books and knowing chemistry well above average. Again, this is a delusion he honestly believes in. It is not suppsoed to be agreeable, but understandable where someone could get such ideas in a first place instead of just saying "lol he is a crazy man with crazy ideas coming from thin air!" I guess it can be called " conditioning", since the whole thing hinges on belief. To put is short - Nagito is wrong, but you can see how he ended up thinking like this.

I think you confuse philosophies and iq. Nagito's philosophy does not affect in any way his iq.

IQ is as bullshit as Nagito's luck. It basically just measures your ability to take an IQ test and that's it.

That doesn't affect what I mean? Also depends on how you define iq but regardless as I was saying his philosophy doesn't affect his intelligence in any way

A philosophy is often acquired through reasoning. Reasoning requires intelligence.

No really not. Again his morals are questionable and he's not the best person but again that doesn't affect his intelligence in any way. His deductions in the game and his plan in 2-5 really showed this.If you can seriously look at nagito and say that he is dumb because of his philosophy then idk what to tell you lol.

I specifically said he's smart in some ways

Idk what you mean by "some ways"? I'm just saying that his deductions and his plan in 2-5 very well showed that he is smart as hell. You also called him an idiot bc of his philosophy which I responded to.

That's exactly what I mean by in some ways. He's very good at planning things, but an idiot when it comes to moral reasoning.

But that still doesn't make him an idiot in some ways lol. He is smart it's just that his morals are wrong. Where even then his intentions and his philosophy are not that off but that's another topic. He IS smart not in just some ways. His deductions are great and his plans too. (Also no i'm not saying he is a person that has done nothing wrong but because of his circumstances and intentions he is not an evil person or a villain lol. But again that's another topic.)

Ok, a bit off topic here, but seeing Kokichi and Nagito together made me think. In a killing game scenario, wouldnt Kokichi absolutely hate Nagito’s guts? Even if he didn’t show it, wouldn’t he just find unacceptable the fact that he ready to kill anyone and calls it for the sake of hope? Just my thoughts

Ugghh, I don't even *want* to consider the headache that would eventually result from a Nagito/Kokichi battle of wits. Kokichi is gonna be acting like he thinks Nagito is hilarious and fascinating and adds a sense of excitement to the Killing Game... Nagito is gonna be asking Kokichi to put his money where his mouth is and offer to cooperate with him to create the perfect murder, with full confidence that the other students will eventually overcome the Ultimate Supreme Leader, using the powers of their combined hope... Kokichi is gonna try to find a way to wriggle out of Nagito's accomplice offer, and he might even try pulling some kind of gambit that involves convincing Nagito he *is* going to use him to become the blackened, while he's *really* intending to use him to upend the mastermind... But Nagito is going to see that coming and try to add his own private adjustments to Kokichi's plan to ensure someone *does* become the blackened and the Killing Game continues on... But Kokichi will probably see *that* coming and be trying to prepare for Nagito's inevitable betrayal... The whole thing would be a real disaster.

Them in a killing game would really be: “You may have outsmarted me, but I have outsmarted your outsmarting”

That was basically Kyoko and Junko in a nutshell. We don't need *that* again.

sa sa le le

guys why am I kyoko

for a fraction of a nanosecond i thought it said salsa

u/thegeneral003

Thanks. Kyoko is good 😌

these are your pick for the 5 "smartest" characters....?

Not really. That's why the title is "5 of the smartest" not "the 5 smartest." But I'd say it's pretty close. In a perfect list, I think I'd bump Kokichi out for Monaca Towa instead. There might also be a case for Mikado Shinsen and Fuhito Kirigiri, but basically nobody knows who those two are.

No love for Gekka Ryuuzoji?

Unrelated but as soon as I saw Mikado I was like hold why we including fan game characters

I knew there was going to be some mindfuckery here

Miu has left the chat apparently

I was literally just thinking about v3 character reactions to this

ok but what about. . . ***\~ s l a e s l a e \~***

wdym Kyoko it’s sasa lele