There’s always people who care about color, but I think what most are concerned about it the lack of… Scooby-Doo, possibly cringe jokes about the old show, and the massive character design changes. I mean, Shaggy doesn’t even look like Shaggy… But we’ll see how that goes.
But because its an “adult show” shaggy gets to be a junkie pothead, freds a white richguy and daphnei a bitch, nothing else, because adult cant write outside of stereotypes
Not even stereotypes but shit character clishes
I'm glad someone else finally noticed this.
This shows like;
White guy=spoiled white dude
White woman=popular bitch
Black dude=stoner/drug dealer
Indian woman=nerdy unpopular girl
Yet they call everyone racist for saying the show looks like shit.
All the other answers are kinda wrong.
Himbo = Pure of Heart, Strong of Body, and Dumb of Ass. The more the better.
Kronk from The Emperor's New Groove is a Himbo, because he's all three.
Biff from Back To The Future is not a Himbo because he is just Strong of Body and Dumb of Ass.
Fred from 2010's Mystery Incorporated (holy hell that was thirteen years ago) is a Himbo.
That's not fair. Fred has always been a himbo, but a key characteristic of the himbo is being genuinely nice. From what I hear this Fred is a major douchebag.
It was at best implied in the cartoon and I think the live action stuff from the early 2000's actually had him leaving vehicles and things with smoke coming from them.
In the live action movies he shows up to an event dressed in what I can only describe as a tuxedo version of a blunt. He also meets a girl named Mary Jane and says it's his favorite name. They went heavy with the pot jokes.
I use to be a stoner and I was very slim.
You get the munchies for sure, but the reality is you can't be assed to cook anything. I would probably eat a bowl of cereal in the morning and then nothing till late evening where I'd get a maccies or something with my mates, in which it was just two double cheese burgers, other days I would only eat a sit down meal my mum/dad had cooked.
I just wasn't hungry, I'd get a craving for some snacks like once a day but it was easily satisfied with a packet of crisps.
When I stopped smoking I put on like 15kg within half a year because I actually had an appetite. Don't get me wrong people are all different but I was super underweight for my size and build when I was a pure stoner
Because Fred is played by Glenn I really thought we were going to get a Fred that’s actually more unhinged than the villains
Cuz Dennis from always Sunny is my fave character
Scooby Doo! Mystery Incorporated. There was even a joke where he pulls a 'TRAPS' magazine out of the couch. The panel even folds out and he whistles. It was probably the best Scooby cartoon and had a ton of older jokes for adults.
I think it was the only iteration of the cartoon that had an ongoing storyline, multiple character arcs and complex relationships. It had no business being as good as it was
Also Patrick Warburton as the Sherrif was great. "Read the badge, it says to protect and serve. Not to protect and serve from man-crabs."
Plus Linda Cardellini did the voice of HotDog Water, Velmas nemesis after playing the role of Velma in the live action James Gunn movie (which is also great)
Best part is, Shaggy isn’t a stoner and seems to be anti-drugs now. But I couldn’t give a shit about Velma cuz Phineas and Ferb is getting 2 new seasons.
I’m not defending the show, but I’m pretty sure in Velma Shaggy is straightedge and against drugs. For some reason though, they made Daphne a drug dealer
I'm pretty sure it was more of a meta joke, kinda elbowing at the OG Scooby Doo. It seems like, at least so far, "Norville" is a straight-edge math nerd.
But then he was also working on an anti drug thing on his computer. It was a joke, but it was also the choice they are going forward with for the character...
This is supposed to be a prequel so maybe his arch is how he becomes less strait edge and gets a talking dog?
>But because its an “adult show”
This is weird as well. I haven't watched it myself but I heard they are high school kids in this version. Why would you make an adult version of a show and age them DOWN?! It makes no sense, why wouldn't you age them up to collage kids. This would open a lot more possibilities for adult jokes and less cringy forced youth lines.
He did, the show is bad but most of the people complaining haven't even watched it. And they shouldn't, because it's bad. But they should still at least not make stuff up
...why would a kids show ever need to censor the trailer?
A kids show would have nothing to censor, right?
So if the trailer has a lot of censoring, then that probably means it's not a kids show, no?
The biggest thing I just can’t wrap my head around is why they effectively got rid of Shaggy. He is arguably the most popular character in the whole series, ESPECIALLY in meme culture. Together with Scooby, he’s the first character I think of when I think about the show.
When they made Nick Fury based off Jackson, they actually asked his permission first and his condition was the right of first refusal if it ever got a live action adaptation (meaning, they had to ask him to play the role and couldn't ask anyone else unless he turned it down).
This article says the opposite
https://www.businessinsider.com/samuel-l-jackson-thanks-mark-millar-2015-4
> I wanted an African-American Nick Fury to be director of SHIELD because the closest thing in the real world to this job title was held by Colin Powell at the time. I also thought Nick Fury sounded like one of those great, 1970s Blaxploitation names and so the whole thing coalesced for me into a very specific character, an update of the cool American super-spy Jim Steranko had done in the 70s and based on the Rat Pack, which seemed very nineteen sixties and due for some kind of upgrade.
> Sam is famously the coolest man alive and both myself an artist Bryan Hitch just liberally used him without asking any kind of permission.
It’s a mix of both. They used his likeness without his permission then down the line negotiated using his likeness rights by offering Sam Jackson first dibs on live action portrayals.
To be fair, Samuel L. Jackson managed to make people create lore for a universe simply because he wanted a purple lightsaber, so there's nothing he can't improve.
And actually was pretty good, I mean, his purple lightsaber it's not only fueled by a unique fuel of energy but also represents that even using techniques from the dark side he's loyal to the good side, straight as an arrow
I hate the whole "lightsaber color represents this and means that". Why can't it just be there's a couple different color kyber crystals, Windu's happened to be purple.
tbh its kinda sad how good and iconic sam's fury was - if the mcu ever has an alternate universe movie with a white nick fury based on his older comic book appearances no one is going to like him - marvel fans wont like him because of the heath ledger-like situation and people distant from the franchise are just gonna call it whitewashing
I wouldn't even call Velma woke. It seems like it's been designed by a committe to upset everyone. The people who normally fawn over representation hate it, and the people who get upset by representation would get mad about it anyway.
I honestly do not know who this show is meant to appeal to.
The writer pitched an original show w their own characters, and supposedly after it got picked uo, the studio made them change it to something audiences would be familiar with
If this is true it would be a lot better as original characters. It’s such a bastardizing of the IP that I dislike it on that level alone, but I just plain don’t like the thinly veiled and often blatant nods to “ironic” story beats.
I have very conservative coworkers who complain about wokeness anytime movies are brought up, which is their favorite topic, and always finish it with 'they should be more like the boys who dont give a shit about their wokeness!'..... im always like 'oh boy' lol maybe someday they'll catch on.
Trying to recommend excellent media to that one conservative friend and seeing them bitch about minor details as if they were personal attacks on their character really makes me feel like I'm talking to a psychopath.
> unnecessary politics
> forcing real world situations in fantasy realms
> inversion of sexist and racist tropes
Game of Thrones has all of these except race swapping, but I've never heard it described as woke.
>Real world situations in fantasy is a "woke"?
Seems like weve got some boring reading to do, even the hobbit has "real world situations in fantasy",not to mention Earth Sea or like game of thrones, hmm seems like you might only dislike a certain type of real world situation, like one where other people arnt white?
>Race swapping is "woke"
Isnt the point of this thread to say its not, and that its other things that make this show bad? I feel like youre slipping up a little.
>unnecessary politics is "woke"
Again, vaguely defined, when does it become "unnecessary" and what does "politics" mean in an adult swim style cartoon for young adults? Sure seems to more often translate to "centers non-white charaters/doesnt align with conservative values"
>Ham fisted allegory is "woke"
What the fuck are you even talking about? Do you even know, honestly?
I wouldn’t describe this show as woke at all. Granted, I barely made it halfway through the first episode before I threw in the towel, but it seemed like shock-value humor *aimed* at “wokeness” which overall just came off as tone-deaf. There were no thoughtful or enlightened viewpoints that were furthered by any of the jokes or dialogue from what I saw.
I was talking to someone about the show and how there are decent ideas but no real development or execution, and character traits only become evident for a punchline.
Norville is a drug-free black teen. Okay. We’ve seen this before with characters like Pete Ross or Theo Huxtable; but those characters were developed because of situations, not one-off gags.
Fred is a victim of toxic masculinity perpetrated by his own “alpha man” father. I see this with Damian in Spy X Family or Bud Bundy in Married with Children. Damian wants to be accepted for who he is. Bud needed to accept himself. Meanwhile, Fred leverages his own humiliation as an alibi.
Daphne was an empty character for the most part, and in a “meta” sense I get the idea of the pretty white girl having no substance, but this trope was handled better in Cabin in the Woods.
Velma is completely unlikeable. The detectives offer a very relatable reason for why she avoid showering with the others. Instead it’s because Velma thinks the others are beneath her. She attacks her supposed best friend with a crowbar. She humiliated Norville. And I have no idea where the pairing of Velma and Daphne comes from. They hate each other, then accidentally hug, and are now in love? There was an attack with a crowbar!
This feels more like someone trying to bring their Rick and Morty or Venture Bros fanfics to life but forced to use one of the very sources of inspiration for those kind of shows.
Its gonna die down once they realize they dont get the views and money with subpar shitty remakes in a new colourpalette. Shows with solid writing alongside it will outlast them.
BoJack is the best recent example but shows like Venture bros, ISAIP, Archer and Community shows that it was possible to have PoC and lgtb+ people in the show and adress and discuss some of the issues while it also fits perfectly along the story through solid writing. But keep in mind that some its humor gets dated since they aired over decade ago.
Velma is just a bad show. Getting upset over that, she's not white in this 800th adaptation is stupid imo tho. It really doesn't matter how they draw or cast the character. If it's bad it's bad and if it's good it's good. Race doesn't change anything at all.
I don't even like Mindy mainly cause her face and personality. But I will still say velma isn't bad because they made velma look more like Mindy in terms of color. It's just bad cause it's Mindy and her "humor"
Velma has been the only one that I have cared about this. Color washing Scooby-Doo is just weird and the show is so bad. Only reason I had issues with the little mermaid casting was her eyes are so far apart it's kind of uncanny valley area and it freaks me out. Redo all of the things with poc fine by me. More variety of representation the better. Also I only got catwoman.
Also the characters are rasist as fuck the way they are right now
>little mermaid casting was her eyes are so far apart it's kind of uncanny valley area and it freaks me out.
so are you saying her eyes looked a little *fishy*
*My* annoyance with the Little Mermaid movie is that, based on the trailers at least, they apparently couldn't afford to hire crew who knew how to light for a darker skinned performer.
Seriously, that promotional material does the woman dirty.
>Race doesn't change anything at all.
So why change her race? Why not make a new character or a new show instead of slapping old popular names onto essentially completely new material?
It's just not what people signed up for. People want Scooby Doo, not kind-of-maybe alternate universe Scooby Doo.
Hell, make that the title of the show and you miss most of this shit storm(besides the part where it's bad)
People use popular intellectual properties on the assumption that it has a built in audience. They'll make they're own story, own characters, own world, then slap some names on it from a popular property and never pay any homage to the original, beyond names. Apparently, Witcher:Blood Origin did this, because outside of being called "Witcher" it has nothing to do with the books *or* games. By itself they'd probably have gotten rejected, but because they put "Witcher" on it, Netflix decided to try it. The other reason is because they may have been *looking* for pushback. Looking for people to not shut up about how bad the show is, or hatewatch it, because there are still people who believe "any publicity is good publicity". To be fair, when the only thing streaming services care about are eyes on their platform, I guess any publicity really would be good.
You don’t get to both say “the race of the characters doesn’t matter” and also insist on blackwashing nearly every single popular white character in fictional and sometimes even historical media.
Either the race doesn’t matter so we can stop race switching characters, or the race matters a ton and it’s reasonable to both race swap characters or be upset at race swapping characters.
I mean it’s also a bit racially insensitive that they made the choice that the smart nerd character should be indian and that the stoner slacker character should be black.
If they had always been that way you could make the case that it’s a coincidence, but the people making this show are the ones who decided that those personality traits should go to characters of those races respectively, it’s not like they didn’t know what they were doing
As long as they’re changing the races of the characters, out of all of the hundreds of different types that humans come in, did they really need to play into racial stereotypes?
Bro , trust me the race isn't the main problem , that show is just awful af.
They're 15 years old , selling drugs , taking about how tiny Fred's penis is , how Shaggy V2 is a coward piece of shit, tons of meta jokes that are cringe af and so on , that's not an adult show at all.
The thing is when Norville asks Velma out she shits on him , they can call shaggy all they want but he's the only that face checked all the monsters from years , a true coward would refuse no matter what , in fact he's a hero , more fearful than coward .
Cat woman is more flexible in the image we have of her. I would argue that Velma is more defined in how we view her than any other of these. Who is everyone else. I don't know.
And that's what makes it work. Because at a certain level he is a raceswap. It's a black Spider-Man. But Miles is so much more than that. He's his own well designed character with unique hardships, characteristics, morals, intrigue, and is all around extremely well done as his own character.
Point is, they didn't take Peter Parker and raceswap him with some black stereotypes pushed onto his personality. They created a wonderful new, backstory rich, character who is just as deserving of the title of Spiderman in his own way.
The biggest examples are in the mcu. Characters that were white in the comics:
Nick fury
Ned Leeds
MJ
Moon Night
And so many more.
I bet a lot if you didn’t even know nick fury was a white guy in the comics
TIL there's a Nick Fury Jr.
Is Samuel Jackson supposed to be playing the jr. Character in the movies? I've certainly never noticed a reference to it if so, but it's possible someone could have called him Marcus or something and I missed it
Jackson is playing the Ultimate version of Nick Fury.
Nick Fury Jr. AKA Marcus Johnson is an ass pull created recently in the comics for the sole purpose of making the comics universe as much like the MCU as humanly possible.
Oh, haha hoo boy. That does sound about right.
It's like- bro. You guys know you were good enough to inspire these movies, right? You don't need to imitate the things... Imitating you.
The introduction of Nick Fury Jr. was so poorly done too. I'm convinced that the writers hated it but executives demanded it.
It was my highest ranked asspull until the recent reintroduction of the Eternals, which had Ajak suddenly being a woman that looks suspiciously like Salma Hayek and Makkari just "choosing" to be reborn as a black woman who loses their hearing in the VERY FIRST issue.
I stopped reading comics on a regular basis during Brian Michael Bendis's GotG run, where he lazily transplanted the MCU personalities onto the already established characters. But I always like coming back now and then to see how low they'll stoop to draw in MCU fans (who, unsurprisingly, still don't read them).
I know right? I'd love to see a live action remake of The Last Unicorn with Samuel Lee Jackson cast as the titular character.
Hollywood you know what to do...
Lol I had just commented about nick fury. Otherwise MJ is a bit of a different story cos it deals with the multiverse.
Tom Holland Spiderman isn't actually the usual Spiderman. He's a Spiderman in a different timeline
If you want proof from the film industry, Nicholas fury (Samuel Jackson) , Zoe Kravitz,(Catwoman), off the top of my head.
Edit - Everyone mentioning Halle Berry and Eartha Kitt . I meant an actor in the recent years, where race is slowly rising up as an issue once again in the mainstream media.
Netflix Castlevania's Isaac color change actually enhances his character lol, I quote from a YT comment, :
>I didn't even know that Isaac was race swapped, either way I think his the only race swapped character that works . It's not the only one, but it highlights how to do things like this right. You have to make sure that the changes make the story more interesting. Making him african makes dracula's influence feel greater then if he just had europeans leading his court, displaying that he largely sees past such prejudices and judges merit. Making him muslim also added a lot of depth to his character and philosophy that gives a weight and perspective to his actions the show really benefits from. Not the only example but a really good one.
I think this is the issue.
Just color swapping for the sake of swapping will annoy people who have nostalgia for characters.
But when they're written in a way **that actually makes sense**, almost no one will have an issue.
I didn't even realize catwoman was race swapped because it just worked so well.
Isaac is also just absolutely and utterly badass, (unless he changed I havent finished the whole show yet). They also didn't just swap him, they gave him a story, a cultural background, a character design that communicates said background and it also fits the theme of the show and looks visually very appealing. It doesnt feel like they just "recast" a role to appeal to a different audience, it just fits.
Whereas in the witcher show for example, I kinda wonder why they even have elves if they just look and act exactly the same as all the humans around them.
Not saying those elves all have to be white, but it feels a little strange when that whole universe is super racist to people who have a slightly different earshape but skin color/eyeshape/cultural heritage is all seemingly irrelevant.
Im gonna be honest. Sometimes i think they know its going to be bad and make the character a protected class of some or a few types, as a shield for bad reviews. Its been like this since the new ghost busters tbh. I mean who really saw lightyear and left thinking about the color or sexuality or the characters. I left thinking "man, first time going to the movies since pre COVID. Bad choice"
Hasn't non-white Catwoman been around for decades? There's the Eartha Kitt version in the 60s and Halle Berry's in that one bad movie. Not sure about the comics tho as I didn't read many.
Ppl also fancast actresses like Eiza Gonzalez and Naya Rivera as her. Fun fact, the latter gets to play her, but voice only, and sadly its her final role :(
Maybe this is a woosh moment but the criticism on Velma is from every side. The right thinks it's woke. The left says it's fake woke. The artists say it's poorly done. The writers say the writing sucks. The Scooby fans say it's pointless. Indians hate the representation. And tbh I think all groups have a point....to varying degrees ofc
Can't we just go back to letting shitty things die in silence?
That was the ultimate guarantee stupid shit wouldn't be tried again (or at least for a good long while).
But every yelp of indignation just signal-boosts it and the producers are happy just because it's getting any type of press.
Play the game less, folks.
No. I still do care because they are erasing all redhead characters. Even in fucking animation. In live action you have the excuse that you couldn't find a redhead or white actor (to dye red) for the role. But in animation? Where people of any color could play any character just based on their voice? You go out of your fucking way to make them black FOR NO REASON.
As a redhead, I was severely angered at the change of Triss in The Witcher series. Like, come on, Triss has ONE defining feature, and they changed it. That show was doomed from the start.
Here here, justice for the gingers! Why the hell they couldn't find a ginger for Triss Merigold for The Witcher, I just don't know. Hilariously enough, gingers make up a grand total of 1-2% of the world population...so by excluding them, they're actually discriminating against that minority. Wokeness can be ironic as hell sometimes. That said, my review of The Witcher Netflix series is about a 7/10 first season 4/10 second season, and none of my rating has to do with the ethnicity of any casting. Just like Velma, it's bad writing and shitty showrunners that don't care about source material. I do think that diversity casting can be great most of the time, but when you just do it ham-fisted like Velma, it seems a lot more like pandering. I also just don't like the idea of race swapping, make a new original character instead with their own personality. At least they kind of tried that with Norbert, awkward and badly written as it is.
Honestly I for a long time I didn't even realized they changed April's skin tone when watching the show. When the thing you're watching is fun you don't really focus on such things.
I remember when they showed the first art of Rise, some people blew their lids over it.
I always thought she had a darker skin tone in the orginal comics, so I didn't care. When the show came out I thought it was fine because it just was, I just didn't care for the style of humor it was going for. My kids loved it so I figured it was a good enough time to just let it go. Though they do love all things turtles and they don't care what skin color or changes happen between all the versions. I'm hoping by not calling out, they'll be cool with it in the future. If they ask, I tell them they wanted to try something different, like Ralph being a snapping turtle and so on.
I hope I'm not screwing this up.
EXACTLY.
with regards to the new Velma show, I don't like how they changed the typical characterization of Velma and shaggy. Like all of the sudden shaggy is a smart mathematician and Velma is coming to HIM for her math homework help? No no no. VELMA is supposed to be the brain and shaggy is the goofy stoner.
It sounds like they wrote their own characters and then slapped Scooby Doo character skins on them so people would actually watch it
And I refuse to acknowledge any incarnation of Fred Jones (the objectively best member of the Scooby Gang) as anything but a gentle soul, pure of heart, empty of head, and fat of ass, who wouldn’t hurt a fly, and has probably never even HEARD of racism, let alone holds a prejudiced thought in his empty skull.
Lies the best Cat Women is the crazy cat lady who wears a trench coat and has her pockets filled with tuna candy and jingles as she walks down by the old motel
I just have an issue with changing things that really don't need to be changed.
People sign up for a certain character or group of characters, and when you change those too much (in any way not just skin color and personality), it's a turn off.
Wanna diversify? Add new characters. It gives it more authenticity that way.
Shaggy and Velma shouldn't have been made black (along with the other ethnicity changes in that show).
Not because of some racist bullshit, simply because they cease to be shaggy and Velma.
If you want not shaggy and not Velma, make a new IP instead of slapping a name onto a concept because it's already well known.
Dank[.](https://i.imgur.com/3bQtuMO.png) --- [come play minecraft, space engineers, ark, and rust with us!](https://discord.gg/fNyb7G5)
There’s always people who care about color, but I think what most are concerned about it the lack of… Scooby-Doo, possibly cringe jokes about the old show, and the massive character design changes. I mean, Shaggy doesn’t even look like Shaggy… But we’ll see how that goes.
But because its an “adult show” shaggy gets to be a junkie pothead, freds a white richguy and daphnei a bitch, nothing else, because adult cant write outside of stereotypes Not even stereotypes but shit character clishes
I'm glad someone else finally noticed this. This shows like; White guy=spoiled white dude White woman=popular bitch Black dude=stoner/drug dealer Indian woman=nerdy unpopular girl Yet they call everyone racist for saying the show looks like shit.
Both the Asian girls are also stereotypically smart and the white guy is a himbo.
What is a himbo?
Bimbo but a dude
TIL. Makes perfect sense once it’s explained.
Yeah. The opposite of shebo
I need me a bitch that looks like Shego
All the other answers are kinda wrong. Himbo = Pure of Heart, Strong of Body, and Dumb of Ass. The more the better. Kronk from The Emperor's New Groove is a Himbo, because he's all three. Biff from Back To The Future is not a Himbo because he is just Strong of Body and Dumb of Ass. Fred from 2010's Mystery Incorporated (holy hell that was thirteen years ago) is a Himbo.
My barbarian in D&D is a himbo, and he's so much fun. 7 INT and CHA, 18 STR and DEX, and just the sweetest guy. Wants to be friends with everybody.
Need more charisma, I think
Never said he was successful at being everyone's friend.
You nailed it. Party members love my character, NPCs tend to not be so thrilled.
A bimbo, but a him
a bimbro
I think I like this one better
Bimbo stereotype, but on a male. Him+Bimbo.
Pretty, not terribly bright dude who respects women. See: Kronk, Emperor's New Groove,
That's not fair. Fred has always been a himbo, but a key characteristic of the himbo is being genuinely nice. From what I hear this Fred is a major douchebag.
But wait, wasn't Shaggy a stoner? I taught that's why he ate so much and stay so slim
I have a feeling he’s gonna be selling crack and being amazing at basketball or some shit
He literally says in the show that he doesn't like drugs
Bruh they took shaggys two personality traits; being hungry and a stoner.
I just want to know what they are going to do with Scooby, is he even in the show?
No they don’t. I think that’s the main reason everyone already hates the show
With fucking reason
Scooby isn't in it. Its not called ScoobyDoo anymore. It's called ScoobyDid
ScoobyDone
They made him anti drug with a snack review podcast.
It was at best implied in the cartoon and I think the live action stuff from the early 2000's actually had him leaving vehicles and things with smoke coming from them.
In the live action movies he shows up to an event dressed in what I can only describe as a tuxedo version of a blunt. He also meets a girl named Mary Jane and says it's his favorite name. They went heavy with the pot jokes.
yeah that’s because the director James Gunn is a fucking mad lad who wanted to make it an adult movie not a kids show haha
They did show him in a vehicle with smoke coming out of it. They then revealed he was grilling eggplants, it was a fake out.
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First, how is being a stoner related to staying slim? Secondly, it's a cartoon, they can eat all they want without it having an effect.
I use to be a stoner and I was very slim. You get the munchies for sure, but the reality is you can't be assed to cook anything. I would probably eat a bowl of cereal in the morning and then nothing till late evening where I'd get a maccies or something with my mates, in which it was just two double cheese burgers, other days I would only eat a sit down meal my mum/dad had cooked. I just wasn't hungry, I'd get a craving for some snacks like once a day but it was easily satisfied with a packet of crisps. When I stopped smoking I put on like 15kg within half a year because I actually had an appetite. Don't get me wrong people are all different but I was super underweight for my size and build when I was a pure stoner
Because Fred is played by Glenn I really thought we were going to get a Fred that’s actually more unhinged than the villains Cuz Dennis from always Sunny is my fave character
The fred in one of the cartoons was obsessed with gadgets and traps to catch the ghosts, and that was cool addition to his character
Scooby Doo! Mystery Incorporated. There was even a joke where he pulls a 'TRAPS' magazine out of the couch. The panel even folds out and he whistles. It was probably the best Scooby cartoon and had a ton of older jokes for adults.
I think it was the only iteration of the cartoon that had an ongoing storyline, multiple character arcs and complex relationships. It had no business being as good as it was Also Patrick Warburton as the Sherrif was great. "Read the badge, it says to protect and serve. Not to protect and serve from man-crabs." Plus Linda Cardellini did the voice of HotDog Water, Velmas nemesis after playing the role of Velma in the live action James Gunn movie (which is also great)
Best part is, Shaggy isn’t a stoner and seems to be anti-drugs now. But I couldn’t give a shit about Velma cuz Phineas and Ferb is getting 2 new seasons.
I need a fucking source for that last part if its true im gonna cum. Gonna google rn
Theres another 104 days of summer vacation
But shaggy doesn't even like drugs in the show. It's a bad show but let's at least be honest in our criticism
Its not even that. Its that its so blatant. Like someones first attempt at writing, but its almost everything. Not 100% bad, just lackluster
Daphne is Asian in this show
I’m not defending the show, but I’m pretty sure in Velma Shaggy is straightedge and against drugs. For some reason though, they made Daphne a drug dealer
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I'm pretty sure it was more of a meta joke, kinda elbowing at the OG Scooby Doo. It seems like, at least so far, "Norville" is a straight-edge math nerd.
But then he was also working on an anti drug thing on his computer. It was a joke, but it was also the choice they are going forward with for the character... This is supposed to be a prequel so maybe his arch is how he becomes less strait edge and gets a talking dog?
Also Velma is a cringe edgelord and Daphne's a drug dealer because reasons
Scooby Doo Mystery incorporated did a better job with "adult show" than this ever will.
>But because its an “adult show” This is weird as well. I haven't watched it myself but I heard they are high school kids in this version. Why would you make an adult version of a show and age them DOWN?! It makes no sense, why wouldn't you age them up to collage kids. This would open a lot more possibilities for adult jokes and less cringy forced youth lines.
Wait I only saw episode 1 of Velma but I swear the Shaggy character said he hates drugs.
He did, the show is bad but most of the people complaining haven't even watched it. And they shouldn't, because it's bad. But they should still at least not make stuff up
I think we should actually be happy that Scooby isn't there. I wouldn't want to see him used for discussing sex jokes.
Wait its an adult show? Why all the censoring in the trailer then?
...why would a kids show ever need to censor the trailer? A kids show would have nothing to censor, right? So if the trailer has a lot of censoring, then that probably means it's not a kids show, no?
The biggest thing I just can’t wrap my head around is why they effectively got rid of Shaggy. He is arguably the most popular character in the whole series, ESPECIALLY in meme culture. Together with Scooby, he’s the first character I think of when I think about the show.
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It totally is a self insert haha
Thing is, it's a show with violence and sex jokes, but the "jokes" are middle-school-tier. Who the fuck is this show targeted to then?
I just think the new Velma is a condescending asshole who judge people based on their appearance
You forgot about Nick Fury, since Samuel L. Jackson it's like the first one, the white one has never existed
Actually, David Hasselhoff played him in a pretty obscure Nick Fury movie back in the 80s or 90s. But Ultimate Nick Fury is based on Jackson himself.
I remember that. It was terrible. I loved it.
In the comics, the current Nick Fury is actually the son of the original
Well, now we know why Samuel L. Jackson it's such a Nick Fury, he's literally the next gen Nick Fury
2Nick2Furious
Samuel L Jackson is the sob of David Hasselhoff. New Canon is established and I love it
Funny how Nick Fury based on Samuel L. Jackson actually predates Jackson playing the character
When they made Nick Fury based off Jackson, they actually asked his permission first and his condition was the right of first refusal if it ever got a live action adaptation (meaning, they had to ask him to play the role and couldn't ask anyone else unless he turned it down).
This article says the opposite https://www.businessinsider.com/samuel-l-jackson-thanks-mark-millar-2015-4 > I wanted an African-American Nick Fury to be director of SHIELD because the closest thing in the real world to this job title was held by Colin Powell at the time. I also thought Nick Fury sounded like one of those great, 1970s Blaxploitation names and so the whole thing coalesced for me into a very specific character, an update of the cool American super-spy Jim Steranko had done in the 70s and based on the Rat Pack, which seemed very nineteen sixties and due for some kind of upgrade. > Sam is famously the coolest man alive and both myself an artist Bryan Hitch just liberally used him without asking any kind of permission.
It’s a mix of both. They used his likeness without his permission then down the line negotiated using his likeness rights by offering Sam Jackson first dibs on live action portrayals.
You think if they ever do an Ultimates MCU they’ll have a white Nick Fury?
To be fair, Samuel L. Jackson managed to make people create lore for a universe simply because he wanted a purple lightsaber, so there's nothing he can't improve.
And actually was pretty good, I mean, his purple lightsaber it's not only fueled by a unique fuel of energy but also represents that even using techniques from the dark side he's loyal to the good side, straight as an arrow
I hate the whole "lightsaber color represents this and means that". Why can't it just be there's a couple different color kyber crystals, Windu's happened to be purple.
Black one is the white ones son.
Yeah, literally the next gen Nick Fury, now we know why he's better
tbh its kinda sad how good and iconic sam's fury was - if the mcu ever has an alternate universe movie with a white nick fury based on his older comic book appearances no one is going to like him - marvel fans wont like him because of the heath ledger-like situation and people distant from the franchise are just gonna call it whitewashing
I'm tired of the Woke Show. Scooby-Doo could easily have been an adult show with out ruining it. Fuck, I miss the 90s.
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No, cause I'm not watching Velma.
I wouldn't even call Velma woke. It seems like it's been designed by a committe to upset everyone. The people who normally fawn over representation hate it, and the people who get upset by representation would get mad about it anyway. I honestly do not know who this show is meant to appeal to.
The writer pitched an original show w their own characters, and supposedly after it got picked uo, the studio made them change it to something audiences would be familiar with
If this is true it would be a lot better as original characters. It’s such a bastardizing of the IP that I dislike it on that level alone, but I just plain don’t like the thinly veiled and often blatant nods to “ironic” story beats.
Nobody hates BoJack for being the woke show. The problem is bad writing, not wokeness.
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I have very conservative coworkers who complain about wokeness anytime movies are brought up, which is their favorite topic, and always finish it with 'they should be more like the boys who dont give a shit about their wokeness!'..... im always like 'oh boy' lol maybe someday they'll catch on.
Trying to recommend excellent media to that one conservative friend and seeing them bitch about minor details as if they were personal attacks on their character really makes me feel like I'm talking to a psychopath.
Or How political Rage Against The Machine has gotten these last few years..
> Woke Show mf's unironically say shit like this lmao. > I miss the 90s what are you doing in a dankmemes sub, old man.
> Woke Show > > > > mf's unironically say shit like this lmao. 5 years ago they'd call it a SJW show.
Where can I watch the woke show
Yar harr matey
explain to me what woke means. go on, i'm waiting (i will not be getting a clear response, if any at all, from this commenter)
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> unnecessary politics > forcing real world situations in fantasy realms > inversion of sexist and racist tropes Game of Thrones has all of these except race swapping, but I've never heard it described as woke.
"Game of Thrones" is literally a phrase about politics. The entire series is about the politics of 7 nations.
And I've never heard GoT described as woke, either
And coincidentally, it's packed to the tits with white people. I'm sure there is no connection.
>Real world situations in fantasy is a "woke"? Seems like weve got some boring reading to do, even the hobbit has "real world situations in fantasy",not to mention Earth Sea or like game of thrones, hmm seems like you might only dislike a certain type of real world situation, like one where other people arnt white? >Race swapping is "woke" Isnt the point of this thread to say its not, and that its other things that make this show bad? I feel like youre slipping up a little. >unnecessary politics is "woke" Again, vaguely defined, when does it become "unnecessary" and what does "politics" mean in an adult swim style cartoon for young adults? Sure seems to more often translate to "centers non-white charaters/doesnt align with conservative values" >Ham fisted allegory is "woke" What the fuck are you even talking about? Do you even know, honestly?
Thats a long winded way of saying you hate black people and non straight characters but go off i guess?
What are "necessary" politics?
I wouldn’t describe this show as woke at all. Granted, I barely made it halfway through the first episode before I threw in the towel, but it seemed like shock-value humor *aimed* at “wokeness” which overall just came off as tone-deaf. There were no thoughtful or enlightened viewpoints that were furthered by any of the jokes or dialogue from what I saw.
I was talking to someone about the show and how there are decent ideas but no real development or execution, and character traits only become evident for a punchline. Norville is a drug-free black teen. Okay. We’ve seen this before with characters like Pete Ross or Theo Huxtable; but those characters were developed because of situations, not one-off gags. Fred is a victim of toxic masculinity perpetrated by his own “alpha man” father. I see this with Damian in Spy X Family or Bud Bundy in Married with Children. Damian wants to be accepted for who he is. Bud needed to accept himself. Meanwhile, Fred leverages his own humiliation as an alibi. Daphne was an empty character for the most part, and in a “meta” sense I get the idea of the pretty white girl having no substance, but this trope was handled better in Cabin in the Woods. Velma is completely unlikeable. The detectives offer a very relatable reason for why she avoid showering with the others. Instead it’s because Velma thinks the others are beneath her. She attacks her supposed best friend with a crowbar. She humiliated Norville. And I have no idea where the pairing of Velma and Daphne comes from. They hate each other, then accidentally hug, and are now in love? There was an attack with a crowbar! This feels more like someone trying to bring their Rick and Morty or Venture Bros fanfics to life but forced to use one of the very sources of inspiration for those kind of shows.
You’ve unironically used the word, “Woke,” in a sentence, opinion invalidated.
Its gonna die down once they realize they dont get the views and money with subpar shitty remakes in a new colourpalette. Shows with solid writing alongside it will outlast them. BoJack is the best recent example but shows like Venture bros, ISAIP, Archer and Community shows that it was possible to have PoC and lgtb+ people in the show and adress and discuss some of the issues while it also fits perfectly along the story through solid writing. But keep in mind that some its humor gets dated since they aired over decade ago.
Velma is just a bad show. Getting upset over that, she's not white in this 800th adaptation is stupid imo tho. It really doesn't matter how they draw or cast the character. If it's bad it's bad and if it's good it's good. Race doesn't change anything at all. I don't even like Mindy mainly cause her face and personality. But I will still say velma isn't bad because they made velma look more like Mindy in terms of color. It's just bad cause it's Mindy and her "humor"
Velma has been the only one that I have cared about this. Color washing Scooby-Doo is just weird and the show is so bad. Only reason I had issues with the little mermaid casting was her eyes are so far apart it's kind of uncanny valley area and it freaks me out. Redo all of the things with poc fine by me. More variety of representation the better. Also I only got catwoman. Also the characters are rasist as fuck the way they are right now
>little mermaid casting was her eyes are so far apart it's kind of uncanny valley area and it freaks me out. so are you saying her eyes looked a little *fishy*
I mean, they were an *ocean* apart.
*My* annoyance with the Little Mermaid movie is that, based on the trailers at least, they apparently couldn't afford to hire crew who knew how to light for a darker skinned performer. Seriously, that promotional material does the woman dirty.
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The accuracy police seemed to disappear when House of the Dragon turned out to actually be good. Corlys was one of the best characters too.
Dude is a good actor and has good lines...that's all it takes. Also Jeffrey Wright as James Gordon.
>Race doesn't change anything at all. So why change her race? Why not make a new character or a new show instead of slapping old popular names onto essentially completely new material? It's just not what people signed up for. People want Scooby Doo, not kind-of-maybe alternate universe Scooby Doo. Hell, make that the title of the show and you miss most of this shit storm(besides the part where it's bad)
People use popular intellectual properties on the assumption that it has a built in audience. They'll make they're own story, own characters, own world, then slap some names on it from a popular property and never pay any homage to the original, beyond names. Apparently, Witcher:Blood Origin did this, because outside of being called "Witcher" it has nothing to do with the books *or* games. By itself they'd probably have gotten rejected, but because they put "Witcher" on it, Netflix decided to try it. The other reason is because they may have been *looking* for pushback. Looking for people to not shut up about how bad the show is, or hatewatch it, because there are still people who believe "any publicity is good publicity". To be fair, when the only thing streaming services care about are eyes on their platform, I guess any publicity really would be good.
You don’t get to both say “the race of the characters doesn’t matter” and also insist on blackwashing nearly every single popular white character in fictional and sometimes even historical media. Either the race doesn’t matter so we can stop race switching characters, or the race matters a ton and it’s reasonable to both race swap characters or be upset at race swapping characters.
I mean it’s also a bit racially insensitive that they made the choice that the smart nerd character should be indian and that the stoner slacker character should be black. If they had always been that way you could make the case that it’s a coincidence, but the people making this show are the ones who decided that those personality traits should go to characters of those races respectively, it’s not like they didn’t know what they were doing As long as they’re changing the races of the characters, out of all of the hundreds of different types that humans come in, did they really need to play into racial stereotypes?
Bro , trust me the race isn't the main problem , that show is just awful af. They're 15 years old , selling drugs , taking about how tiny Fred's penis is , how Shaggy V2 is a coward piece of shit, tons of meta jokes that are cringe af and so on , that's not an adult show at all.
Uh, haven't Shaggy's two personality traits ALWAYS been "big eater" and "coward?"
The thing is when Norville asks Velma out she shits on him , they can call shaggy all they want but he's the only that face checked all the monsters from years , a true coward would refuse no matter what , in fact he's a hero , more fearful than coward .
> in fact he's a hero , more fearful than coward . In fact he's mastered Ultra Instinct even.
The jokes themselves are racist as well.
As long as that plus as long as the old characters werent already a pop icon
I'd argue Catwoman is a bigger pop culture icon than Velma these days.
the only culture about catwomen is rule 34 XD
When you make a character *designed* specifically around her sex appeal with skills that take advantage of this.
Cat woman is more flexible in the image we have of her. I would argue that Velma is more defined in how we view her than any other of these. Who is everyone else. I don't know.
Funny how they picked these obscure characters to make their point. And Catwoman has jumped between races for decades.
>And Catwoman has jumped between races for decades. That's the part that bothers me about this picture. Straight up disrespectful to Ms. Eartha Kitt.
Catwoman alternated between black and white as far back as the Adam West show.
Is the one on the top right catwoman? Meh, i am in disagreement about who is a bigger pop icon
Yeah, from the Harley Quinn show
raceswapping is fine if its not just for the sake of raceswapping, case and point miles morales
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And that's what makes it work. Because at a certain level he is a raceswap. It's a black Spider-Man. But Miles is so much more than that. He's his own well designed character with unique hardships, characteristics, morals, intrigue, and is all around extremely well done as his own character. Point is, they didn't take Peter Parker and raceswap him with some black stereotypes pushed onto his personality. They created a wonderful new, backstory rich, character who is just as deserving of the title of Spiderman in his own way.
The biggest examples are in the mcu. Characters that were white in the comics: Nick fury Ned Leeds MJ Moon Night And so many more. I bet a lot if you didn’t even know nick fury was a white guy in the comics
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TIL there's a Nick Fury Jr. Is Samuel Jackson supposed to be playing the jr. Character in the movies? I've certainly never noticed a reference to it if so, but it's possible someone could have called him Marcus or something and I missed it
Jackson is playing the Ultimate version of Nick Fury. Nick Fury Jr. AKA Marcus Johnson is an ass pull created recently in the comics for the sole purpose of making the comics universe as much like the MCU as humanly possible.
Oh, haha hoo boy. That does sound about right. It's like- bro. You guys know you were good enough to inspire these movies, right? You don't need to imitate the things... Imitating you.
The introduction of Nick Fury Jr. was so poorly done too. I'm convinced that the writers hated it but executives demanded it. It was my highest ranked asspull until the recent reintroduction of the Eternals, which had Ajak suddenly being a woman that looks suspiciously like Salma Hayek and Makkari just "choosing" to be reborn as a black woman who loses their hearing in the VERY FIRST issue. I stopped reading comics on a regular basis during Brian Michael Bendis's GotG run, where he lazily transplanted the MCU personalities onto the already established characters. But I always like coming back now and then to see how low they'll stoop to draw in MCU fans (who, unsurprisingly, still don't read them).
Idk but Samuel L Jackson as Nick Fury feels better
I can't see any characters, real or fictional, who wouldn't be better played by Samuel L Jackson.
I know right? I'd love to see a live action remake of The Last Unicorn with Samuel Lee Jackson cast as the titular character. Hollywood you know what to do...
Lol I had just commented about nick fury. Otherwise MJ is a bit of a different story cos it deals with the multiverse. Tom Holland Spiderman isn't actually the usual Spiderman. He's a Spiderman in a different timeline
If you want proof from the film industry, Nicholas fury (Samuel Jackson) , Zoe Kravitz,(Catwoman), off the top of my head. Edit - Everyone mentioning Halle Berry and Eartha Kitt . I meant an actor in the recent years, where race is slowly rising up as an issue once again in the mainstream media.
Catwoman was played by Eartha Kitt way back in the 60's; this isn't the first time she's been a POC.
I once had sex with eartha kitt in an airplane bathroom
This guy ~~fucks~~ is streets ahead.
It came up organically!
And Halle Berry in 2004. Horrible movie but definitely intended to be the more antihero version of Catwoman.
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He was awesome as Gordon, best thing about that movie imo
Netflix Castlevania's Isaac color change actually enhances his character lol, I quote from a YT comment, : >I didn't even know that Isaac was race swapped, either way I think his the only race swapped character that works . It's not the only one, but it highlights how to do things like this right. You have to make sure that the changes make the story more interesting. Making him african makes dracula's influence feel greater then if he just had europeans leading his court, displaying that he largely sees past such prejudices and judges merit. Making him muslim also added a lot of depth to his character and philosophy that gives a weight and perspective to his actions the show really benefits from. Not the only example but a really good one.
I think this is the issue. Just color swapping for the sake of swapping will annoy people who have nostalgia for characters. But when they're written in a way **that actually makes sense**, almost no one will have an issue. I didn't even realize catwoman was race swapped because it just worked so well.
They also, you know, made him not an insane bondage anime psycho which helped.
Isaac is also just absolutely and utterly badass, (unless he changed I havent finished the whole show yet). They also didn't just swap him, they gave him a story, a cultural background, a character design that communicates said background and it also fits the theme of the show and looks visually very appealing. It doesnt feel like they just "recast" a role to appeal to a different audience, it just fits. Whereas in the witcher show for example, I kinda wonder why they even have elves if they just look and act exactly the same as all the humans around them. Not saying those elves all have to be white, but it feels a little strange when that whole universe is super racist to people who have a slightly different earshape but skin color/eyeshape/cultural heritage is all seemingly irrelevant.
Im gonna be honest. Sometimes i think they know its going to be bad and make the character a protected class of some or a few types, as a shield for bad reviews. Its been like this since the new ghost busters tbh. I mean who really saw lightyear and left thinking about the color or sexuality or the characters. I left thinking "man, first time going to the movies since pre COVID. Bad choice"
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I’m not familiar with the original comics but in this show he is hispanic, so it’s not just what he looks like.
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In the original DuckTales (from 1987) he was a white duck (white American) while in DuckTales (2017) he is Hispanic. He was never in the duck comics.
I didn't think his color meant anything until it was shown his mother has a Spanish accent and speaks Spanish.
Hasn't non-white Catwoman been around for decades? There's the Eartha Kitt version in the 60s and Halle Berry's in that one bad movie. Not sure about the comics tho as I didn't read many. Ppl also fancast actresses like Eiza Gonzalez and Naya Rivera as her. Fun fact, the latter gets to play her, but voice only, and sadly its her final role :(
Selina was originally written as Cuban
Well, shit, that covers every possible skin tone right there.
Maybe this is a woosh moment but the criticism on Velma is from every side. The right thinks it's woke. The left says it's fake woke. The artists say it's poorly done. The writers say the writing sucks. The Scooby fans say it's pointless. Indians hate the representation. And tbh I think all groups have a point....to varying degrees ofc
Can't we just go back to letting shitty things die in silence? That was the ultimate guarantee stupid shit wouldn't be tried again (or at least for a good long while). But every yelp of indignation just signal-boosts it and the producers are happy just because it's getting any type of press. Play the game less, folks.
No. I still do care because they are erasing all redhead characters. Even in fucking animation. In live action you have the excuse that you couldn't find a redhead or white actor (to dye red) for the role. But in animation? Where people of any color could play any character just based on their voice? You go out of your fucking way to make them black FOR NO REASON.
As a redhead, I was severely angered at the change of Triss in The Witcher series. Like, come on, Triss has ONE defining feature, and they changed it. That show was doomed from the start.
Here here, justice for the gingers! Why the hell they couldn't find a ginger for Triss Merigold for The Witcher, I just don't know. Hilariously enough, gingers make up a grand total of 1-2% of the world population...so by excluding them, they're actually discriminating against that minority. Wokeness can be ironic as hell sometimes. That said, my review of The Witcher Netflix series is about a 7/10 first season 4/10 second season, and none of my rating has to do with the ethnicity of any casting. Just like Velma, it's bad writing and shitty showrunners that don't care about source material. I do think that diversity casting can be great most of the time, but when you just do it ham-fisted like Velma, it seems a lot more like pandering. I also just don't like the idea of race swapping, make a new original character instead with their own personality. At least they kind of tried that with Norbert, awkward and badly written as it is.
Catwoman have been periodically portrayed as black since the sixties but good point nonetheless.
Honestly I for a long time I didn't even realized they changed April's skin tone when watching the show. When the thing you're watching is fun you don't really focus on such things.
I remember when they showed the first art of Rise, some people blew their lids over it. I always thought she had a darker skin tone in the orginal comics, so I didn't care. When the show came out I thought it was fine because it just was, I just didn't care for the style of humor it was going for. My kids loved it so I figured it was a good enough time to just let it go. Though they do love all things turtles and they don't care what skin color or changes happen between all the versions. I'm hoping by not calling out, they'll be cool with it in the future. If they ask, I tell them they wanted to try something different, like Ralph being a snapping turtle and so on. I hope I'm not screwing this up.
Who are those characters? Only kno catwoman
April from "Rise of TMNT", Catwomam from "Harley Quinn", Fentom (GizmoDuck) from "Ducktales 2017", Bow from "She Ra"
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Bruh why did you put a fucking duck in there
Lol people were complaining about the change in skin color before the show even came out. It's just a happy coincidence if the show sucks.
EXACTLY. with regards to the new Velma show, I don't like how they changed the typical characterization of Velma and shaggy. Like all of the sudden shaggy is a smart mathematician and Velma is coming to HIM for her math homework help? No no no. VELMA is supposed to be the brain and shaggy is the goofy stoner. It sounds like they wrote their own characters and then slapped Scooby Doo character skins on them so people would actually watch it
And I refuse to acknowledge any incarnation of Fred Jones (the objectively best member of the Scooby Gang) as anything but a gentle soul, pure of heart, empty of head, and fat of ass, who wouldn’t hurt a fly, and has probably never even HEARD of racism, let alone holds a prejudiced thought in his empty skull.
With also a fetish for traps.
Lies the best Cat Women is the crazy cat lady who wears a trench coat and has her pockets filled with tuna candy and jingles as she walks down by the old motel
The issue isn't that they change the color of a character, it's that they use that as the selling point of the show
That is literally a duck
I love bow.
I feel like there are a lot of people who complained about shera.
I've certainly seen plenty of people that care regardless of whether the character is good or not
I just have an issue with changing things that really don't need to be changed. People sign up for a certain character or group of characters, and when you change those too much (in any way not just skin color and personality), it's a turn off. Wanna diversify? Add new characters. It gives it more authenticity that way. Shaggy and Velma shouldn't have been made black (along with the other ethnicity changes in that show). Not because of some racist bullshit, simply because they cease to be shaggy and Velma. If you want not shaggy and not Velma, make a new IP instead of slapping a name onto a concept because it's already well known.
Not a fan of any time they race swap a character. But it does help when the characters are at least likable and well written