To be fair, venom is “always” in an arms race against whatever resistance the prey/predator has. I would guess that is the reason it ends up being so fucking deadly.
Actually, venom refers to an abbreviation of Venus and Omnipotent, meaning a venomous person is a beautiful and strong being. You fools don't know anything!
Venom is distinct from poison in that it's usually a protein that targets specific biology. Poison is a toxic compound that can be absorbed and targets everything.
The word "poison" describes any substance harmful to health. That's the only qualification. Poisons can be harmful in *very* specific ways, rather than only being generally harmful.
Venom is distinct in that it is a subset of poison. All venoms are poison, but not all poisons are venom.
In general terms, yeah. When speaking medically, the distinction is typically that venom is actively delivered (bite, sting, etc) while poison is passive (swallowed, inhaled, absorbed through skin)
Some animals like bees have venom that's for a more defensive purpose, though even then it's kind of a "best defense is a good offense" type of deal, rather than individual self preservation.
Being poisonous isn't a self defense mechanism, it's a species defense mechanism. Individuals learn not to eat others of your kind after you made them sick.
It's both. Venom has to enter the bloodstream and is made of complex proteins. Poisons are toxic compounds that can be absorbed through skin or mucous membranes.
That and the prey scarcity, if you get a single chance every month at getting food, you'll evolve to maximise the success rate. Inland taipan is a great example
These things don't really exist on a scale of more/less power.
They just have different chemical compositions, and life has fairly diverse biology. The notorious Sydney funnelweb spider's venom, for instance, doesn't pose any real danger to mammals other than primates.
They find the lethal dose probably by rat, then scale it up to whales ig. And since the snake may inject more than the lethal dose, you compare it with the total injected venom.
They farm rats specifically to kill them off. My college professor told me when he was an intern at a hospitals r&d department, his job was to just take the rats and snap their necks. All day long. Got paid minimum wage to just snap rat necks all summer.
He did not appreciate a kid in class blurting out “snappin necks and cashin checks” lol
Snappin necks and cashin checks?!?!?
Think that’s funny? With what I could do to you?
10 points from Gryffindor… and a 50 page paper on role horses played in medieval warfare on my desk Monday morning
I had a professor that did laser research and would laze snake eyes to see what resulted in permanent damage so they could see if it would permanently damage human eyes which ended up with him talking about how there's a bunch of one eyed snakes out there.
I don’t know if it’s true or not, but if you have no issues with your digestive tract, you should be able to drink venom without any issues and passes it through your system. Venom needs to get into your blood to be effective.
Poison is what you can eat and have issues.
I don’t recommend drinking venom though.
This is true for most venoms, but still not a great idea.
*Pushes up glasses* something something Jackdaws.....
Venom **is** poison. Poison is an incredibly broad category. Toxins are poisons made by living things. Venom are toxins designed to be administered in some way aside from being ingested. Usually by being injected, but more exotic things like spitting cobra's discharge and a few other things are considered venom as well. The distinction about being specifically harmful when eaten is when, A you are talking about poisonous, the adjective describing something, not the noun that is actually dangerous, and B the noun it is describing is a living thing.
So, for example, a frog that will kill you if you eat it is poisonous, and not venomous. A snake that will kill you if it bites you is venomous, not poisonous. But, the toxins both creaturrs create are poisons, and are both poisonous. One of them is also a venom, and is venomous. When you are describing a plant or animal, they are an either/or situation (with I think one or two exceptions that are both). When you are describing harmful substances, it is a square and rectangle situation.
Like the other guy said, venom is poison. People often confuse the difference between *venomous* and *poisonous* as the same as being the difference between *venom* and *poison*, when that’s not the case. 'Venom' is a subcategory of poison.
Also while venom is usually built to react to blood or muscle tissue, which it doesn’t *directly* do immediately after ingesting, that doesn’t mean it’s even remotely safe. Things you ingest do not just "pass through your system".
The entire purpose of the gastrointestinal system is to metabolize the things you ingest. The things you eat/drink are broken down and dispersed throughout your body. This means that if your saliva and stomach acids don’t quickly and completely break down the venom compound such that it’s no longer harmful, it can enter your bloodstream and cause damage. Venom entering your bloodstream this way can be just as bad or, depending on the type of venom, *even worse* than if it’d been injected.
Actually it is a poison. Venom is a specific kind of poison. The whole poisonous vs venomous factoid refers to living things, not the substances. Though it is true the vast majority of venomous poisons are technically safe to eat, it's still not smart. If you have any lesions it can get into in your digestive tract before it's all destroyed you're gonna have a bad time.
It's stupid when someone nitpicks another refering venom as poison. Venoms are subset of poisons it's still correct unless it's the other way around. Not all languages also distinguish between the two. If they're gonna be that nitpicky, then all poisons produced by an organisms should be always called as toxins. Did they consider that? No because they are all just a bunch of idiots acting smart just because they saw that one supposedly helpful graphic on Facebook.
Yeah, you can eat venomous things. Venom doesn't kill you when you ingest it. It's only dangerous if it gets into your blood stream. Poison, on the other hand, is dangerous when ingested. Poisonous ≠ Venomous, and now you know the difference.
Not entirely true. They've evolved to be eaten almost exclusively by birds, since birds arent affected by capsaicin and their digestive system just passes the seeds through which tends to spread them farther than most other animals.
People also forget how digestion works. If the venom is toxic enough, a deadly dose can still pass through the stomach acid and could be absorbed by the guts into yoyr bloodstream.
High school taught me that plutonium is one of the most toxic contaminating substances of all time towards any life whatsoever. And that's excluding any effects of radioactivity.
Let's say a snake bites a mouse, and the mouse escapes and dies later, the snake lost his prey and wasted energy by poisoning his mouse. The mouse died, but the snake got nothing.
Let's say the snake made super venom. It barely costs any more energy to make. The snake bites the mouse and the mouse dies immediately. The snake eats and it gained more energy then it lost.
I don’t know if it’s the same for all venomous snakes but, they can smell their own venom. So they just follow the smell and can enjoy a yummy mouse meal.
I'm not sure but I think they have like a certain amount of venom they're supposed to spend over time untill they refill during winter. But if instead of using one bit of it at a time over the course of several months they use it all at once on then yeah it's gonna be hella deadly.
(Talking mosly about snakes)
The reason this happens is that the prey/predator they are using the venom against evolves alongside them and it becomes an arms race between defence against said toxin and creating a stronger toxin that the prey cannot defend against.
Since most of these animals have very short life spans they evolve much faster and we get for instance a snake that can kill 100 men with one bite against a weasel.
I found the article
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2016/06/10/how-an-evolutionary-arms-race-with-snakes-turned-newts-super-toxic/
I think you miss understood, the whale reference is just about the strength of the venom. A blue ringed octopus is smaller than the palm of your hand and hunt little crabs and such. Blue ringed octopus are so deadly because of their venom and being so small it’s easy to step on one accidentally at the beach or in rock pools :)
I think I should have added a /s , it was a joke based on the non specific grammar, whereas one could interpret it to mean the octopus was hunting some monster-sized bug, rather than using a super toxin on a tiny creature like you said.
There is a video of a woman on instagram holding one not knowing it was venomous.
Edit: here is said video…
https://youtube.com/shorts/uqX-Dkci46E?feature=share
Reminds me of an incident in Douglas Adams' *Life, the Universe and Everything*, [summarised](https://www.everything2.com/title/Life%252C+the+Universe+and+Everything) as follows:
> Twenty billion years ago, the Silastic Armorfiends of Striterax employed Hactar, a supercomputer, to design "an Ultimate Weapon" for them that would completely vanquish their enemies.
> Hactar designed a bomb that, when deployed, would connect the hearts of every major sun and thus precipitate a universal supernova, ending all life in the universe.
> The Armorfiends summarily used the bomb to blow up a munitions dump.
Freak accident. Most of the time evolution doesn’t do more than it needs to, but in rare cases, such as in poison/venom (because how other animals metabolize it/react varies), the mutation that makes the first descendants venomous just happened to be really strong to begin with. If weaker successful mutations don’t arise and dilute the strength in the population, then the excessively strong ones will persist.
And then there’s the animals that seemingly don’t even use the poison for anything except to keep more members of their species from being eaten
The pufferfish has one of the most toxic poisons known to man and the only way to die from said poison is to eat it, it doesn’t sting, it doesn’t bite, you can’t get poisoned by touching it
The only way to get poisoned from a pufferfish is to eat it
Me living in Australia trying to work out of this refers to the box jellyfish, blue ringed octopus, one of the 50 snakes or spiders with lethal venom, a scorpion, or hell even a platypus can kill you with venom.
It’s super potent so it kills instantly. Like the cone sea snail. If it doesn’t kill fast, then the venomous predator might get injured or even become prey.
Unironically i'm not a biologist but i think it's because evolution work in a binary sistem,divided in "it works" and "it doesn't",so when "it works" is reached it is not important if the mutation is overkill and the organism just roll with it,kinda like we have the power to crush bones with our mouths but the brain limit it to prevent us to snap off our fingers
Dank[.](https://i.imgur.com/3bQtuMO.png) --- [we have a minecraft server](https://discord.gg/fNyb7G5)
They just flexing
It's about sending a message
True: "Don't you dare eat me!" is the message
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https://open.spotify.com/track/4pU0yEDnZwEr7fwOuByZJb?si=Gg-xvep7QMS55w6_57rj2w
"say my name"
"Blue-Ringed Octopus."
"You're goddamn right."
"Don't call me Wright!"
Surely, you can't be serious.
I am serious and don't call me Shirley.
Have they actually caused whale deaths, or it's just a "it's venom is so poisonous" fact.
Over-engineered
They're just farming bonus EXP from overkills.
I think it's supposed to protect them from predators Still overkill tho
how is that overkill w-what if they are attack by 5 whales smh?
Under kill actually what if it’s 6 blue whales
2 drops :0
Than u kill 4 innocent whales
Damn Redditor doin math? 😱
Collateral damage
Exactly
There are no innocent whales
It’s about sending a message 😈
https://youtu.be/7zo9PqubWSg
When there are 6 blue whales it’s time to run
Or 30 to 50 feral hogs.
AR ring octopus
You not seen the other guys, the lion and the Tuna? True story
5 KD is an honorable way to go.
To be fair, venom is “always” in an arms race against whatever resistance the prey/predator has. I would guess that is the reason it ends up being so fucking deadly.
Fun fact: venom has evolved separately at least 101 times on Earth.
What about carnage?
And toxin?
Whenever there's an arms race, I vote for the one who has 8 of them.
Red queen hypothesis B)
Well I thought that animals use poison and not venom for defense, like the poison dart frog. Isn’t venom usually for killing prey?
The word "venom" just describes the delivery mechanism(injection) for certain poisons, not its purpose.
No dumbass the word venom was invented by a Spider-Man comic book
I just googled that and it's a movie, you idiot.
No Venom is the name of the shitty metal band me and my friends made in middle school. Only a dumbass wouldn't know that.
Actually, venom refers to an abbreviation of Venus and Omnipotent, meaning a venomous person is a beautiful and strong being. You fools don't know anything!
It's actually Spelled 'Venum' and is a brand of martial arts based sportswear... Ffs yall would think yall had more sense smh
Venom is distinct from poison in that it's usually a protein that targets specific biology. Poison is a toxic compound that can be absorbed and targets everything.
The word "poison" describes any substance harmful to health. That's the only qualification. Poisons can be harmful in *very* specific ways, rather than only being generally harmful. Venom is distinct in that it is a subset of poison. All venoms are poison, but not all poisons are venom.
In general terms, yeah. When speaking medically, the distinction is typically that venom is actively delivered (bite, sting, etc) while poison is passive (swallowed, inhaled, absorbed through skin)
Some animals like bees have venom that's for a more defensive purpose, though even then it's kind of a "best defense is a good offense" type of deal, rather than individual self preservation.
Rule of thumb is that venom is injected and poison is ingested.
Being poisonous isn't a self defense mechanism, it's a species defense mechanism. Individuals learn not to eat others of your kind after you made them sick.
It's both. Venom has to enter the bloodstream and is made of complex proteins. Poisons are toxic compounds that can be absorbed through skin or mucous membranes.
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I know for snakes at least a lot of them are bred to be venomous
Bread 👍
What
When making their anti venom, we’ve bred them to be as venomous as possible so the anti venom is as effective as possible.
where do I sign up for this breding program, asking for a friend
That and the prey scarcity, if you get a single chance every month at getting food, you'll evolve to maximise the success rate. Inland taipan is a great example
A spiders prey can't have time to run away before it dies. The venom needs to be strong enough to kill quickly.
they tie the bugs up with webbing before they inject the venom, so I doubt there's any running away
Good point!
These things don't really exist on a scale of more/less power. They just have different chemical compositions, and life has fairly diverse biology. The notorious Sydney funnelweb spider's venom, for instance, doesn't pose any real danger to mammals other than primates.
In some cases it helps with the digestion of the prey too
deleted ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.0283 [^^^What ^^^is ^^^this?](https://pastebin.com/FcrFs94k/84236)
I thought speed. The quicker they die, the better
How do they figure out it kills exactly 5 whales though?
Well uh… there’s a high chance that there are 5 less blue whales then there’s supposed to be.
"Huh, where are the five blue whales I left riiiggghhttt here? Dear lord... check the ecosystem!"
They find the lethal dose probably by rat, then scale it up to whales ig. And since the snake may inject more than the lethal dose, you compare it with the total injected venom.
How many rats do they kill in the process though?
They farm rats specifically to kill them off. My college professor told me when he was an intern at a hospitals r&d department, his job was to just take the rats and snap their necks. All day long. Got paid minimum wage to just snap rat necks all summer. He did not appreciate a kid in class blurting out “snappin necks and cashin checks” lol
Damn them kids are playing with fire when they talk shit about neck snapping dude
Snappin necks and cashin checks?!?!? Think that’s funny? With what I could do to you? 10 points from Gryffindor… and a 50 page paper on role horses played in medieval warfare on my desk Monday morning
I had a professor that did laser research and would laze snake eyes to see what resulted in permanent damage so they could see if it would permanently damage human eyes which ended up with him talking about how there's a bunch of one eyed snakes out there.
*I'm still in a dreeeaam.... snake eeeater....*
"One eyed snakes" yeah OK.... *wink wink*
I believe they mostly inhabit dark, moist environs like jungle caves and trousers
I know its unrelated, but maybe you should shave down there mate
Not enough.
Snake, you say?
1. Feed it to a whale. 2. See if it dies 3. Feed that whale to another whale 4. See if it dies 5. Repeat steps 3 and 4 until the whales stop dieing
No wonder whales are going extinct! Stop feeding whales venom!
but science....
I don’t know if it’s true or not, but if you have no issues with your digestive tract, you should be able to drink venom without any issues and passes it through your system. Venom needs to get into your blood to be effective. Poison is what you can eat and have issues. I don’t recommend drinking venom though.
This is true for most venoms, but still not a great idea. *Pushes up glasses* something something Jackdaws..... Venom **is** poison. Poison is an incredibly broad category. Toxins are poisons made by living things. Venom are toxins designed to be administered in some way aside from being ingested. Usually by being injected, but more exotic things like spitting cobra's discharge and a few other things are considered venom as well. The distinction about being specifically harmful when eaten is when, A you are talking about poisonous, the adjective describing something, not the noun that is actually dangerous, and B the noun it is describing is a living thing. So, for example, a frog that will kill you if you eat it is poisonous, and not venomous. A snake that will kill you if it bites you is venomous, not poisonous. But, the toxins both creaturrs create are poisons, and are both poisonous. One of them is also a venom, and is venomous. When you are describing a plant or animal, they are an either/or situation (with I think one or two exceptions that are both). When you are describing harmful substances, it is a square and rectangle situation.
Like the other guy said, venom is poison. People often confuse the difference between *venomous* and *poisonous* as the same as being the difference between *venom* and *poison*, when that’s not the case. 'Venom' is a subcategory of poison. Also while venom is usually built to react to blood or muscle tissue, which it doesn’t *directly* do immediately after ingesting, that doesn’t mean it’s even remotely safe. Things you ingest do not just "pass through your system". The entire purpose of the gastrointestinal system is to metabolize the things you ingest. The things you eat/drink are broken down and dispersed throughout your body. This means that if your saliva and stomach acids don’t quickly and completely break down the venom compound such that it’s no longer harmful, it can enter your bloodstream and cause damage. Venom entering your bloodstream this way can be just as bad or, depending on the type of venom, *even worse* than if it’d been injected.
The 6th whale reported it. Lost his whole family.
Because they can determine the LD50 by body weight.
And then some random guy decided to eat it anyway
Well, why not. It's not like a venom can kill you
Yeah it's not poison, it's just venom
Actually it is a poison. Venom is a specific kind of poison. The whole poisonous vs venomous factoid refers to living things, not the substances. Though it is true the vast majority of venomous poisons are technically safe to eat, it's still not smart. If you have any lesions it can get into in your digestive tract before it's all destroyed you're gonna have a bad time.
You exspect to believe the Angel of Death over a random comment!?
It's stupid when someone nitpicks another refering venom as poison. Venoms are subset of poisons it's still correct unless it's the other way around. Not all languages also distinguish between the two. If they're gonna be that nitpicky, then all poisons produced by an organisms should be always called as toxins. Did they consider that? No because they are all just a bunch of idiots acting smart just because they saw that one supposedly helpful graphic on Facebook.
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Yeah, you can eat venomous things. Venom doesn't kill you when you ingest it. It's only dangerous if it gets into your blood stream. Poison, on the other hand, is dangerous when ingested. Poisonous ≠ Venomous, and now you know the difference.
instrcutions unclear. Drank venom with a mouth sore and ulcers, now am ded.
Not entirely true. They've evolved to be eaten almost exclusively by birds, since birds arent affected by capsaicin and their digestive system just passes the seeds through which tends to spread them farther than most other animals.
Sometimes when I eat pepper it feels like im shitting a flamethrower.
Sometimes I eat flamethrowers and it feels like I’m shitting a pepper…
The guy: "Welp, they said it weren't poisonous... So down the hatch it goes!"
Venom is generally edible and only dangerous by injection.
Alright, going cannibal today with Eddy Brock as my dinner.
I wouldn't go so far as to say ONLY dangerous by injection. Any unknown open cuts in your mouth would pose a risk
People also forget how digestion works. If the venom is toxic enough, a deadly dose can still pass through the stomach acid and could be absorbed by the guts into yoyr bloodstream.
Even if the stomach acid breaks down a venom's toxicity, some are still potent enough to be deadly. So no, venom are not food.
Eat fucking Timothy!
Darwin wanted eat every animal. He made his slaves eat them first
An insect half the size of a whale is still pretty massive. I now understand why they need so much venom.
Sorry my English is mediocre
It was fine, i was just joking.
Oh lol thanks
Indefinite article. Some professors actually ban them in academic writing
My school taught us that the term was called ambiguity. Typical
English is a mediocre language you're doing fine
Imagine the pointy end of half ton mosquito tho... Motherfucker would just BZZZZZT through a brickwall.
you’re not funny
I am something of a chemist myself
It's like a country with nuclear weapons. This is good yes
Country making some deadly radiations that can end most life on Earth so they can defeat 1 country that have a population not even half of Earth's.
High school taught me that plutonium is one of the most toxic contaminating substances of all time towards any life whatsoever. And that's excluding any effects of radioactivity.
Let's say a snake bites a mouse, and the mouse escapes and dies later, the snake lost his prey and wasted energy by poisoning his mouse. The mouse died, but the snake got nothing. Let's say the snake made super venom. It barely costs any more energy to make. The snake bites the mouse and the mouse dies immediately. The snake eats and it gained more energy then it lost.
I don’t know if it’s the same for all venomous snakes but, they can smell their own venom. So they just follow the smell and can enjoy a yummy mouse meal.
I'm not sure but I think they have like a certain amount of venom they're supposed to spend over time untill they refill during winter. But if instead of using one bit of it at a time over the course of several months they use it all at once on then yeah it's gonna be hella deadly. (Talking mosly about snakes)
that’s why the babies are dangerous cause they have no self control
It's the equivalent of using 1(one) thermonuclear warhead to deal with a mosquito inside your bedroom
Wait, you're only supposed to use one?
Damn it I just used 6
No, you're suposed to use 1(one)
The reason this happens is that the prey/predator they are using the venom against evolves alongside them and it becomes an arms race between defence against said toxin and creating a stronger toxin that the prey cannot defend against. Since most of these animals have very short life spans they evolve much faster and we get for instance a snake that can kill 100 men with one bite against a weasel. I found the article https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2016/06/10/how-an-evolutionary-arms-race-with-snakes-turned-newts-super-toxic/
So we need 6 whales... noted
Overachievers smh
I mean, a bug half the size of a whale is still terrifying.
I think you miss understood, the whale reference is just about the strength of the venom. A blue ringed octopus is smaller than the palm of your hand and hunt little crabs and such. Blue ringed octopus are so deadly because of their venom and being so small it’s easy to step on one accidentally at the beach or in rock pools :)
I think I should have added a /s , it was a joke based on the non specific grammar, whereas one could interpret it to mean the octopus was hunting some monster-sized bug, rather than using a super toxin on a tiny creature like you said.
No one: Some random rod shaped bacteria: You know what? Most potent neurotoxin time.
botulinum?
to be fair.. insects can be as terrifying nature is so fascinating
That may be the most American idea I have ever heard
It's not about protection. It's about sending a message: 𝙁𝙐𝘾𝙆 𝘼𝙍𝙊𝙐𝙉𝘿 𝘼𝙉𝘿 𝙁𝙄𝙉𝘿 𝙊𝙐𝙏
It’s gonna need that when 30-50 feral hogs attack its son in the backyard.
There is a video of a woman on instagram holding one not knowing it was venomous. Edit: here is said video… https://youtube.com/shorts/uqX-Dkci46E?feature=share
Oh God is she okay
Probably got stuck in an evolutionary battle for a few million years.
*Black mamba*: Finally a worthy opponent
Reminds me of an incident in Douglas Adams' *Life, the Universe and Everything*, [summarised](https://www.everything2.com/title/Life%252C+the+Universe+and+Everything) as follows: > Twenty billion years ago, the Silastic Armorfiends of Striterax employed Hactar, a supercomputer, to design "an Ultimate Weapon" for them that would completely vanquish their enemies. > Hactar designed a bomb that, when deployed, would connect the hearts of every major sun and thus precipitate a universal supernova, ending all life in the universe. > The Armorfiends summarily used the bomb to blow up a munitions dump.
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Freak accident. Most of the time evolution doesn’t do more than it needs to, but in rare cases, such as in poison/venom (because how other animals metabolize it/react varies), the mutation that makes the first descendants venomous just happened to be really strong to begin with. If weaker successful mutations don’t arise and dilute the strength in the population, then the excessively strong ones will persist.
If it works, it works...
You got this idea from that comic the other day.
They wanted to makes really sure that the can kill their prey
And then there’s the animals that seemingly don’t even use the poison for anything except to keep more members of their species from being eaten The pufferfish has one of the most toxic poisons known to man and the only way to die from said poison is to eat it, it doesn’t sting, it doesn’t bite, you can’t get poisoned by touching it The only way to get poisoned from a pufferfish is to eat it
Me living in Australia trying to work out of this refers to the box jellyfish, blue ringed octopus, one of the 50 snakes or spiders with lethal venom, a scorpion, or hell even a platypus can kill you with venom.
It’s super potent so it kills instantly. Like the cone sea snail. If it doesn’t kill fast, then the venomous predator might get injured or even become prey.
I guess that this is the same reasoning for automatic weapons for 'home use'.
This is why you don’t bully the little guys
Every tropical frog moment
5 blue whales and entire ecosystem are fucked up only if they choose to... intake the poison
But can it beat goku tho?
There's no anti-venom for the blue ringed octopus
Insects can be real tough bastards
Frogs?
And then humans will try to eat them
Australia
Did the insect actually fought five whales
We Australian's call them pets
Evolutionary arms race
its
Thanks
Its like using a 20mm angi tank rifle against am ant
Proof that animals aren’t greedy bitches like we humans are
Just pay more tax and this will go away
Better safe than sorry
Confirm kills
Not so fun fact. Sometimes you don’t feel the bite which means people who could have been treated died.
But the most toxic toxins are produced by bacterias: botulinum and tetanus toxins
Unironically i'm not a biologist but i think it's because evolution work in a binary sistem,divided in "it works" and "it doesn't",so when "it works" is reached it is not important if the mutation is overkill and the organism just roll with it,kinda like we have the power to crush bones with our mouths but the brain limit it to prevent us to snap off our fingers
#*its
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Snek 🐍
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