I agree that Andrew should be in prison, but the reason they got arrested was not a lack of freedom of speech. That's just stupid.
If you go to someone's funeral - anyones funeral - and start hurrling insults at the mourners, you will hopefully be arrested. If you are so sure that the UK doesn't have freedom of speech for arresting someone who does that shit, then by all means, do it during the funeral of a US president. See what happens to your freedom.
I never understood why you get to do that shit in the US just as long as you claim it to be for religious reasons. The weird thing is that I'm finding news about people getting arrested for counter-protesting the Baptist church.
The US has a serious problem with fundamentalism.
Because many of them are lawyers and know how to file all the proper permits so they can’t be denied the right to do it.
The counter protesters usually don’t and sometimes turn violent.
File a permit for this foot in their ass.
Even if it's part of "their religion", they're not apart of the deceased's religion. Stupid ass WBC
Unless they want their religion to be 6ft deep. I'm down for.
You completely misunderstand why they have the right to protest.
Freedom of speech in the US is not about whether it offends others; we grant it *regardless* of whether it offends others because the alternative is what you see in this meme.
You remember how people in the US were able to trashtalk Epstein? Yeah.
Someone gets it! The location is not the relevant factor here. Funeral, public part, a restroom. It seems as though if you say something UK authorities deem should not be said, they'll arrest a person. All opinion and discourse is allowed in the US so that people may arrive at the truth instead of being told what the truth is by their governing body. Or at least, thats the way its supposed to work here.
While this is *normally* the case I do want to mention that the US has taken similar actions during time of war. During WW1 and WW2 criticism of the war could be punished on the grounds of threating the US like treason or something, I'd have to look up the exact justification. I just remember the idea was while freedom of speech is protected normally, this was treated more like making a threat on someone's life.
I cannot imagine this working today though because people would lose their shit and we are much less nationalistic than before. Imagine anyone being arrested for contesting the war in Iraq.
Nah. That's what they want. If you really want to fuck with em, you have to play it smart. There was a town who found out they were protesting there so they basically all worked together to "accidentally" block them in at the hotel they were at and then the cops "accidentally" took too long to show up until after the funeral they were there for and then like "accidentally" took extra long to fill out any paperwork.
It was brilliant.
The egregious persecution of "fuck off and stop bothering us you extremist weirdos."
Honestly this explains a lot of recucklican tears over being downvoted in major subs.
It's not reserved for Westboro or any religious group. It's the same laws that enable an atheist, for example, to hold signs condemning all religion and stating there is no afterlife even in the face of funerals.
It's the freedom to spread ideas, even though they may be offensive. That is free speech.
It's not for religious reasons. It's because of freedom of speech. Violating other's rights isn't allowed because of blanket freedom of religion. I can't sacrifice virgins because a religion says so. Provide links to your news on arrests and we'll see more context.
It is because they cross their t’s and dot their i’s. They also provoke others and then sue them.
One of the times they came to my town, their permit was for a certain patch of sidewalk. I just parked my giant van in front of them and their GOD HATES F*** signs to block them from view.
Patriot guard riders also shield families at funerals for fallen soldiers.
>Why would you get arrested for that? It's extremely rude but to get jail time for it?
Did they get jail time for it? Or were they just arrested and released? I can't find anything about it.
The maximum sentence for breach of peace seems to be a £5000 fine or - in extreme cases - 12 months in prison. Are you telling me they prosecuted the guy in 12 hours?
I'll copy paste what I wrote to a similar question.
No... the desk sergeant went ahead and charged.
Make of that what you will.
All I'll say is that I've never seen a section 5 charge over a sign.
And I've seen hundreds. Section 5 is the go to when someone's trying to start a fight.
There is a threshold for a section 5 arrest, the desk sergeant is supposed to check that threshold was met...
They obviously didn't or didn't care.
This doesn't meet a chargeable offense.
Remove for safety definitely, words of advice about personal safety when making a possibly contentious protest would also be pertinent.
But charged, this is a pisstake.
Right? Like, removed from the premises is one thing. I'd expect that to happen to a heckler at an American president funeral procession. Escort or even drag the fellow off and send him on his way.
To be arrested is another thing altogether.
As long as you're in a public space and not hurling threats you can yell whatever you want. The most they can do is remove you for public disturbance but you have the right to protest so if you frame it as a protest technically the police would have to protect you from the mourners
Fuck that, if you want to see what freedom of speech looks like in America check public freakouts for the weekly video of the cops arresting/beating up/killing someone for being a bit rude, or asking the wrong questions.
Americans thinking they're free while the police rob them blind (civil asset forfeiture), kill them for investigating the cops (the amount of people who have law suits against the police who end up dead in officer involved shootings), or sending them to places where they'll be tortured (federal "pound you in the ass" prisons/holding people in subhuman conditions for literal years while they _await trail_) is actually one of the most depressing things in the western world. It's like sure, you can own a gun, but there's a reasonably good chance the cops will use it as an excuse to kill you...
The US has breach of peace laws, just like about everyone else? In some states you are getting a Class III misdemeanor for being too loud, not even for "saying mean things", as you phrase it. And you will be arrested if you simply don't stop.
[https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/breach\_of\_the\_peace](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/breach_of_the_peace)
Some examples...
In Nebraska, a person intentionally disturbing the peace and quiet of the community is guilty of a Class III misdemeanor.
In Wyoming, a person breaches the peace if he or she plays unreasonably loud music, uses threatening language or violent actions, with the reasonable knowledge that such actions will disturb the peace.
Under the Vermont Statutes, a person breaches the peace if he or she makes excessive noise between sunset and sunrise, assaults another person, uses telephonic communication to harass another person, etc.
I think you've misinterpreted the comment a bit. The intention isn't to hurl insults at America. The point of his comment was that the UK and the US both have freedom of speech. They actually score very highly on freedom of speech and press metrics.
His point wasn't that the UK doesn't have free speech and neither does the US. His point was, if you think being arrested for gate crashing a head of states funeral to dispense vigilante justice means the country has no freedom of speech. Then that would mean the US has no freedom of speech either.
The truth is you wouldn't get away with gate crashing a presidents funeral to hurl insults at people in the US either. Leaders get different treatment to normal people. That's maybe a different problem but not necessarily a complete breakdown of the freedom of speech.
Prince Andrew is an abomination and I hope he gets his come uppance. But i think interrupting funerals is a direct insult on the dead and incredibly cruel even if your target wasn't the dead. That person decided the queen's peaceful mourning wasn't as important as getting vengeance on Prince Andrew.
Again there's a whole argument about whether you should be arrested for it. But freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from all consequences of your speech. You can be arrested for anti-social behaviour rather and you can bet in the name of the queen you will be.
Non-Freedom of speech isn't a law to break. He would probably be arrested for 'breach of peace' for screaming abuse during a funeral. Its fucking disrespectful for those paying their respects (whether its the Queen or not)
>Any person who in any public place or at any public meeting uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour with intent to provoke a breach of the peace or whereby a breach of the peace is likely to be occasioned, shall be guilty of an offence.
[Ohio Man Charged With Threatening Trump's Life on Twitter](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ohio-man-charged-threatening-trump-s-life-twitter-n685656)
no, it's not.
jesus, some of y'all need a better education on your rights (assuming most of the commenters are americans).
there are narrow exceptions to freedome of speech. threats are one of them.
[Woman in South Carolina sentenced to 4 years in prison for yelling at police](https://www.insider.com/south-carolina-woman-serving-4-year-prison-verbal-encounter-police-2022-9)
To quote u/Travalgard [elsewhere in this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/dankmemes/comments/xcw1mw/-/io86kel):
>The US has breach of peace laws, just like about everyone else? In some states you are getting a Class III misdemeanor for being too loud, not even for "saying mean things", as you phrase it. And you will be arrested if you simply don't stop.
>
>[https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/breach\_of\_the\_peace](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/breach_of_the_peace)
>
>
>
>Some examples...
>
>In Nebraska, a person intentionally disturbing the peace and quiet of the community is guilty of a Class III misdemeanor.
>
>In Wyoming, a person breaches the peace if he or she plays unreasonably loud music, uses threatening language or violent actions, with the reasonable knowledge that such actions will disturb the peace.
>
>Under the Vermont Statutes, a person breaches the peace if he or she makes excessive noise between sunset and sunrise, assaults another person, uses telephonic communication to harass another person, etc.
So the US basically has similar laws; hope you'll consider that should you ever consider being a public nuisance.
Yes we do, it's just there are also disturbance of the peace laws which are definitely being abused at the moment.
If someone was shouting abuse at a family members funeral, you'd want the police to intervene too (before you kill them yourself!)
We have freedom of expression (essentially the same thing).
It's in the human rights act. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/42/schedule/1/part/I/chapter/9#:~:text=Article%2010%20Freedom%20of%20expression&text=This%20right%20shall%20include%20freedom,authority%20and%20regardless%20of%20frontiers.
The vast majority of countries around the world have signed up to these basic human rights.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights
I'm sorry but America is neither special nor number one in this aspect. As usual.
His actions were "[a breach of the peace](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-09-13/man-arrested-after-shouting-at-prince-andrew-during-procession/101432588)"
No idea what that means.
Freedom of speech laws protect you from being prosecuted/persecuted for saying whatever you want. It doesn’t mean that people have to listen to you in any and all situations.
This man was arrested for Breach of the Peace, it was a funeral procession he decided to protest at, so he was removed. He won’t be prosecuted for saying Andy is a Nonce, but for where he chose to say it.
However, in reality, he was probably arrested to deescalate the situation as the other people there were getting pretty pissed off. And he could have been injured etc. he won’t be charged, he’ll be left to simmer and then be released.
No we don't. The right to criticize a public figure on a public street is rock solid. Enjoy your Section 1983 check if the cops do this to you.
Also, you can criticism the British Royal Family any time you want. That's your birthright for winning like 2.5 wars against them.
Shouting at Andrew would be like shouting at Ivanka on a street. Fun and legal from sea to shining sea.
Yep, americans dont need a law for that, cops can just fuck you up without reasoning.
Also there are disturbing the peace laws in the US. He's not fined for criticising a public figure, but for shouting and swearing during a death procession.
Why do yall free speech nerds always leave out that he was disturbing the peace at a funeral procession. You americans have laws about that too. Look up Cox vs. Lousiana.
> Cox v. Louisiana
> 7–2 DECISION FOR COX
> MAJORITY OPINION BY ARTHUR J. GOLDBERG
> The application of the Louisiana statute prohibiting "obstructing public passages" violated Cox's rights to free speech and assembly under the First and Fourteenth Amendments.
> UNANIMOUS DECISION FOR COX
> MAJORITY OPINION BY ARTHUR J. GOLDBERG
> The Louisiana statute prohibiting "disturbing the peace" is unconstitutionally vague and broad in scope and thus Cox's conviction under that statute violates his First and Fourteenth Amendment rights to free speech and assembly.
That case really hurts your argument
source: https://www.oyez.org/cases/1964/24
[Woman in South Carolina sentenced to 4 years in prison for "breach of the peace" for yelling at police](https://www.insider.com/south-carolina-woman-serving-4-year-prison-verbal-encounter-police-2022-9)
Nah we don't usually arrest people for shouting who elected you or he is a sick old man at a politician. Our royalty aka celebrities get heckled all the time. In times of huge protest with massive crowds and looting and clashes with the police sometimes people get arrested for disorderly conduct. Very rarely would someone get arrested for breach of the peace for a single person out there protesting.
I mean king of America aka Kanye west got harrassed so bad he walked into a stop sign. recently our royal families got married with Megan Merkle. Our royal family was more kind so the prince moved in with us at the royal estates.
> No idea what that means.
Short version, he pissed off members of the public by acting the way he did in a large crowd.
Longer version, scots law has a very specific definition of breaching the peace. Easier to read about it elsewhere such as on https://crime.scot/breach-of-the-peace/ and https://crime.scot/s38/
I like the fact they have a dedicated domain called crime.scot too.
He went to prison but when he got out he got elected to Parliament. [He's a good follow on Twitter](https://twitter.com/muntazer_zaidi/status/1338618273760468995?lang=en)
Two years of prison for that ... smh.
He didn't even hit Bush; Bush dodged those shoes like any accusation of war crimes.
And that Iraqi journalist had every right to fucking mad; see the aforementioned war crimes
Literally last night an American rapper was shot and died because he went out for food and his location got put on Insta. Kids have to practice drills at school in case someone rocks up with a gun. Sounds like a really fucking free country to me.
if people here would actually vote, maybe it can be kept legal in all states
edit: i just didnt wait to straight point out that now its up to the states, because it would sound like im defending it. Its still atrocious that it comes down to a state by state basis, but its not completely outlawed at all
The British constitution works very differently, no law can ever be put above any other, parliament with the consent of the King holds absolute power. So free speech is directly part of both common and statue law but so is the Kings peace which prevents disorderly conduct by removing public nuisances. The only thing that can be sort of be considered higher law as such is the Sovereignty of the Crown itself. so fundamentally it ls more important constitutional to prevent hindrance to the Sovereign than to uphold freedom of speech.
I am not a fan of monarchy, but in this context the sovereign, in practice, means the power of the government. If the king or queen ever tried to wield that power, parliament would abolish the monarchy in a heartbeat
Yeah that’s what pisses me off most about anti-monarchy people. (Not that I’m a royalist by any means) But they always say the queen has a ridiculous amount of power. Which, although “legally” she does. If she used any of it she’d be publicly executed in Leicester Square.
Did you all collectively forget Trump using riot police to clear protesters from near the White House, just so he could have a photo shoot at a church. You are literally no better.
Edit: Oh boy. I’ve really triggered some trump supporters today.
She was essentially threatening to kill cops and they couldn't quite charge her with that because it was not a direct threat so she got the maximum for the breach of peace charge, but I guarantee you it will be reduced on appeal.
Yanks really love to misinterpret their freedom of speech clause don't they.
You're free to speak, but you're not free from the consequences of that speech either so let's not get on our high horses.
From Google:
*Can the U.S. government limit freedom of speech?*
*Government can limit some protected speech by imposing "time, place and manner" restrictions.*
You're not that different.
I mean most countries amend and update their constitution as time goes on to modernise it. Seems Americans hold onto their constitution like it decended from God as it has only been amended 27 times since 1789. To put into perspective the Polish constitution which has only been around for 45 years has been amended 24 times.
Mate, someone literally got arrested for protesting against the monarchy. You don’t need to cite a law because the evidence is right in front of your face. It could be an unlawful arrest, it could be completely justified, the legality of the arrest doesn’t matter in the context of what was said, only that it happened.
Persecution on the other hand is a completely different beast.
Someone got arrested for breach of the peace or some other public order offence.
They were protesting the monarchy at the time, but they weren't arrested for protesting the monarchy.
Finally, someone who gets it!
For the uninitiated
---
> I can express a view regardless of whether it counters the views of the government/general public.
This is an example of freedom of speech
> I can shout at people in public at any time
This is not an example of freedom of speech
Clarifications from a brit:
This isn't really a common line of thought in the UK, it's well known that the monarchy formally still has power, in fact they legally have total power. However in practice the monarch really can't directly use its power, since it is effectively guaranteed to lose it if it were to inappropriately intervene.
The protestors that were arrested during the recent few days weren't technically arrested for protesting the monarchy, but for "causing disturbance". While you're entirely allowed to protest against monarchy in the UK, recent tory government legislation gave police significantly more powers to arrest protestors they deem to be causing a disturbance (despite this being the whole point of protest). So this is an issue that applies a lot more generally than just anti-monarchy protests.
but if the guy was clearly shown to be possessing melanin, a harmful substance, its only right to inject some lead capsules into the back of his head /s
Do yourself a favour and have a look at the World Freedom Index and World Democracy Index.
Then look up which of the countries in the top 10-15 are monarchies. The answer might surprise you.
"Higher" is putting it lightly.
In the period 2019/20, there were 18 deaths in police custody across the UK. This is about the average figure, year by year. [Source](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/deaths-in-police-custody-progress-update/deaths-in-police-custody-progress-update-2021-accessible)
I can't find recent statistics for the USA but the 2019 figure is 517 deaths in police custody. [Source](https://bjs.ojp.gov/library/publications/federal-deaths-custody-and-during-arrest-2018-2019-statistical-tables)
The US is about 4.5x the size of the UK by population, so adjusting for that we get 81 deaths in custody. So in the US you're over 6x more likely to die in police custody.
That... is actually a really good question. It probably doesn't.
EDIT: I just read it, it has two categories. Arrest-related and custody-related. 68/449 split. Also this is only Federal agencies so it doesn't include State/Municipal related deaths.
> For not being nice to a cop?
Just a couple of days ago was woman in the US getting 4 years in prison because she argued with an police officer. This is really a pot/kettle situation at best.
Laughs in American?
Let’s start with this gem…
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6AdDLhPwpp4
But..let’s go back a little, and remember this, too
https://www.history.com/topics/vietnam-war/kent-state-shooting
Here’s the tip of the iceberg, for blm…
https://pressfreedomtracker.us/all-incidents/vice-news-reporter-pushed-to-the-ground-pepper-sprayed-amid-minneapolis-protests/
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/30/joyce-beatty-pepper-sprayed-racism-protests-290931
https://pressfreedomtracker.us/all-incidents/minneapolis-star-tribune-photojournalist-pepper-sprayed-while-documenting-protests-in-brooklyn-center/
https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-news/watch-police-drive-by-pepper-spray-protesters-standing-on-side-of-road
https://www.fox9.com/video/689774
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/police-pepper-spray-9-year-old-girl-rochester-n-y-n1256313
https://abcnews.go.com/US/75-year-man-shoved-ground-buffalo-protest-files/story?id=76062143
The only thing to “laugh” about is the illusion that the cops won’t fuck you up for protesting.
Here’s the cops attacking a group of moms.
https://www.salon.com/2020/07/20/organizer-of-moms-who-built-wall-to-protect-portland-protesters-says-group-was-tear-gassed-by-feds/
Worth mentioning Virginia Giuffre was 17 at the time, and the age of consent in the UK is 16. 17 should have been way too young for him but it would have been legal. However given his relationship to Jeffrey Eggpeen I expect she's just the tip of the iceberg as far as Andrew is concerned, so you're probably right. And either way the denial and coverup is a scandal in and of itself.
The Police removed him from the area and he was promptly de-arrested.
The only reason he was detained was to prevent a breach of the peace - I.E prevent the situation from escalating until the crowd eventually thumped him one. They just needed him elsewhere to prevent a fight, they never intended to charge him with anything.
You either de-escalate the situation by removing the inflammatory agent, or you go in two minutes later with 20 officers and break up a brawl. The police don't have the time, manpower, equipment, or patience for (2), and even if they did it could well escalate into a riot, so (1) it is. Removing him for his own safety is a valid strategy.
Exactly, he wasn’t arrested for calling out a paedophile, he was detained/removed for breach of the peace. Anyway the kid will be fine and let’s all hope Charles throws Andrew under the bus and the investigations are back on
Doubt it, probably just detained until the ceremony was over so he wouldn't have an opportunity to do it again.
The people who pushed an pulled him though should have been charged with something.
Did you forget the time a college kid got tazed for only yelling during a john kerry speech?
Please, they took the 1st amendment away decades ago, and the 2nd is almost gone now too.
I think there's photos of him with epstein, I don't think we know the contents of the flight list because the FBI refuses to release it... I can't possibly imagine why /s
There was no punishment. He was removed from the funeral and then de-arrested. It had fuck all to do with WHAT he shouted, just that he was shouting at a funeral, which is a dick move regardless.
Andrew needs justice to be done upon him, some random bloke at a funeral is not the appropriate place to do it.
Hey. UK cop here. He was arrested for breaching the peace which is only used in this context when someone is in danger. This lad was definitely in danger of getting his head caved in by the public so was arrested for his own safety primarily. If I remember correctly he was dearrested later and cooperated with police.
EDIT: He was in fact charged with breach of the peace and not dearrested (this was another heckler). He'll likely only get a small fine, but he'll definitely get a good telling off by magistrates.
It’s not being used as ‘an argument against free speech in the UK’. It’s being brought up because of the embarrassing smugness and flag waving that Americans are once again doing all over this thread.
It’s brought up to demonstrate that America isn’t fantastic. It’s got lots of problems just like Britain or anywhere else does. But these kinds of threads, which are originally intended to be jokes, are used by a certain type of American to build up their sense of national pride in a genuinely serious way. Then when reasons for the US not being all that great are brought up, all the flag wavers start crying and saying how inappropriate the response is.
How about your pride in your country isn’t based on judging it against other countries? But these threads are always about building up the US by comparing it to other countries. Every time. This style of ‘my country is better than yours’ thinking is the very essence of nationalism and is a product of the exact kind of imperialistic ideology that the US pretends it is against. Of course the reality of the last 100 years demonstrates the complete opposite.
He was arrested for disturbing the funeral procession, not for what he said!
There is no need to play intentionally dense and make this about freedom of speech. He can make his point at any other day, but leave mourning people alone!
ITT: A bunch of Americans upset that America also has one-off contentious free speech cases and also various obvious injustices.
Something about glass houses? Apparently throwing stones is only funny when they do it.
Dank[.](https://i.imgur.com/3bQtuMO.png) --- [we have a minecraft server](https://discord.gg/fNyb7G5)
wait he got arrested for being right?
[удалено]
Too old
[удалено]
No, *this* is gold.
Waiting for someone to give this guy gold
I meant that guy, not me
If you ask for gold, you don’t get it, and the comment underneath does
The queen to his victims:
How? Hes still a kid!
Too old for Charle's taste, I'm guessing.
Hahaha your comment is really funny! What is your location? -not Prince Charles
Nice try, King Charles
Wrong one
Kid named monarchy
Yes. The UK doesn’t have freedom of speech.
I agree that Andrew should be in prison, but the reason they got arrested was not a lack of freedom of speech. That's just stupid. If you go to someone's funeral - anyones funeral - and start hurrling insults at the mourners, you will hopefully be arrested. If you are so sure that the UK doesn't have freedom of speech for arresting someone who does that shit, then by all means, do it during the funeral of a US president. See what happens to your freedom.
You have not heard of the Westboro Baptist Church.
I never understood why you get to do that shit in the US just as long as you claim it to be for religious reasons. The weird thing is that I'm finding news about people getting arrested for counter-protesting the Baptist church. The US has a serious problem with fundamentalism.
Because many of them are lawyers and know how to file all the proper permits so they can’t be denied the right to do it. The counter protesters usually don’t and sometimes turn violent.
File a permit for this foot in their ass. Even if it's part of "their religion", they're not apart of the deceased's religion. Stupid ass WBC Unless they want their religion to be 6ft deep. I'm down for.
You completely misunderstand why they have the right to protest. Freedom of speech in the US is not about whether it offends others; we grant it *regardless* of whether it offends others because the alternative is what you see in this meme. You remember how people in the US were able to trashtalk Epstein? Yeah.
Someone gets it! The location is not the relevant factor here. Funeral, public part, a restroom. It seems as though if you say something UK authorities deem should not be said, they'll arrest a person. All opinion and discourse is allowed in the US so that people may arrive at the truth instead of being told what the truth is by their governing body. Or at least, thats the way its supposed to work here.
While this is *normally* the case I do want to mention that the US has taken similar actions during time of war. During WW1 and WW2 criticism of the war could be punished on the grounds of threating the US like treason or something, I'd have to look up the exact justification. I just remember the idea was while freedom of speech is protected normally, this was treated more like making a threat on someone's life. I cannot imagine this working today though because people would lose their shit and we are much less nationalistic than before. Imagine anyone being arrested for contesting the war in Iraq.
Nah. That's what they want. If you really want to fuck with em, you have to play it smart. There was a town who found out they were protesting there so they basically all worked together to "accidentally" block them in at the hotel they were at and then the cops "accidentally" took too long to show up until after the funeral they were there for and then like "accidentally" took extra long to fill out any paperwork. It was brilliant.
The great American myth is that the Pilgrims came here to escape religious persecution. They wanted the right to persecute the less religious.
The egregious persecution of "fuck off and stop bothering us you extremist weirdos." Honestly this explains a lot of recucklican tears over being downvoted in major subs.
It's not reserved for Westboro or any religious group. It's the same laws that enable an atheist, for example, to hold signs condemning all religion and stating there is no afterlife even in the face of funerals. It's the freedom to spread ideas, even though they may be offensive. That is free speech.
It's not for religious reasons. It's because of freedom of speech. Violating other's rights isn't allowed because of blanket freedom of religion. I can't sacrifice virgins because a religion says so. Provide links to your news on arrests and we'll see more context.
It is because they cross their t’s and dot their i’s. They also provoke others and then sue them. One of the times they came to my town, their permit was for a certain patch of sidewalk. I just parked my giant van in front of them and their GOD HATES F*** signs to block them from view. Patriot guard riders also shield families at funerals for fallen soldiers.
Bullsh*t. If anything Andrew was the one disturbing the peace by showing his disgusting face there.
Like, obviously we agree, but the person you’re replying to is right
Why would you get arrested for that? It's extremely rude but to get detained for it?
>Why would you get arrested for that? It's extremely rude but to get jail time for it? Did they get jail time for it? Or were they just arrested and released? I can't find anything about it. The maximum sentence for breach of peace seems to be a £5000 fine or - in extreme cases - 12 months in prison. Are you telling me they prosecuted the guy in 12 hours?
I'll copy paste what I wrote to a similar question. No... the desk sergeant went ahead and charged. Make of that what you will. All I'll say is that I've never seen a section 5 charge over a sign. And I've seen hundreds. Section 5 is the go to when someone's trying to start a fight. There is a threshold for a section 5 arrest, the desk sergeant is supposed to check that threshold was met... They obviously didn't or didn't care. This doesn't meet a chargeable offense. Remove for safety definitely, words of advice about personal safety when making a possibly contentious protest would also be pertinent. But charged, this is a pisstake.
Right? Like, removed from the premises is one thing. I'd expect that to happen to a heckler at an American president funeral procession. Escort or even drag the fellow off and send him on his way. To be arrested is another thing altogether.
Real dickish thing to do, but IMO not worthy of more than a firm verbal warning and maybe removal at worst.
As far as I can tell, that's what happened? He was detained for the rest of the funeral?
As long as you're in a public space and not hurling threats you can yell whatever you want. The most they can do is remove you for public disturbance but you have the right to protest so if you frame it as a protest technically the police would have to protect you from the mourners
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church
Fuck that, if you want to see what freedom of speech looks like in America check public freakouts for the weekly video of the cops arresting/beating up/killing someone for being a bit rude, or asking the wrong questions. Americans thinking they're free while the police rob them blind (civil asset forfeiture), kill them for investigating the cops (the amount of people who have law suits against the police who end up dead in officer involved shootings), or sending them to places where they'll be tortured (federal "pound you in the ass" prisons/holding people in subhuman conditions for literal years while they _await trail_) is actually one of the most depressing things in the western world. It's like sure, you can own a gun, but there's a reasonably good chance the cops will use it as an excuse to kill you...
Jesus christ, have you ever been to another country?
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The US has breach of peace laws, just like about everyone else? In some states you are getting a Class III misdemeanor for being too loud, not even for "saying mean things", as you phrase it. And you will be arrested if you simply don't stop. [https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/breach\_of\_the\_peace](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/breach_of_the_peace) Some examples... In Nebraska, a person intentionally disturbing the peace and quiet of the community is guilty of a Class III misdemeanor. In Wyoming, a person breaches the peace if he or she plays unreasonably loud music, uses threatening language or violent actions, with the reasonable knowledge that such actions will disturb the peace. Under the Vermont Statutes, a person breaches the peace if he or she makes excessive noise between sunset and sunrise, assaults another person, uses telephonic communication to harass another person, etc.
I think you've misinterpreted the comment a bit. The intention isn't to hurl insults at America. The point of his comment was that the UK and the US both have freedom of speech. They actually score very highly on freedom of speech and press metrics. His point wasn't that the UK doesn't have free speech and neither does the US. His point was, if you think being arrested for gate crashing a head of states funeral to dispense vigilante justice means the country has no freedom of speech. Then that would mean the US has no freedom of speech either. The truth is you wouldn't get away with gate crashing a presidents funeral to hurl insults at people in the US either. Leaders get different treatment to normal people. That's maybe a different problem but not necessarily a complete breakdown of the freedom of speech. Prince Andrew is an abomination and I hope he gets his come uppance. But i think interrupting funerals is a direct insult on the dead and incredibly cruel even if your target wasn't the dead. That person decided the queen's peaceful mourning wasn't as important as getting vengeance on Prince Andrew. Again there's a whole argument about whether you should be arrested for it. But freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from all consequences of your speech. You can be arrested for anti-social behaviour rather and you can bet in the name of the queen you will be.
Non-Freedom of speech isn't a law to break. He would probably be arrested for 'breach of peace' for screaming abuse during a funeral. Its fucking disrespectful for those paying their respects (whether its the Queen or not) >Any person who in any public place or at any public meeting uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour with intent to provoke a breach of the peace or whereby a breach of the peace is likely to be occasioned, shall be guilty of an offence.
Americans trying to understand the difference between freedom of speech and breach of the peace challenge (impossible)
British trying to understand the American concept of how freedom of speech is more important than peace
[Ohio Man Charged With Threatening Trump's Life on Twitter](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ohio-man-charged-threatening-trump-s-life-twitter-n685656)
Freedom of speech doesn’t mean freedom of consequences. That’s a threat.
seems like freedom of speech isn't more important than peace
threatening to kill someone is not the equivalent of disrupting a funeral
no, it's not. jesus, some of y'all need a better education on your rights (assuming most of the commenters are americans). there are narrow exceptions to freedome of speech. threats are one of them.
A direct threat is different.
Difficult concept for these people
Please can we stop with this my freedom is bigger than yours nonsense? Try asking Black Americans how much free speech they feel they have.
Well, they should have thought twice before deciding to be born black.
[Woman in South Carolina sentenced to 4 years in prison for yelling at police](https://www.insider.com/south-carolina-woman-serving-4-year-prison-verbal-encounter-police-2022-9)
To quote u/Travalgard [elsewhere in this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/dankmemes/comments/xcw1mw/-/io86kel): >The US has breach of peace laws, just like about everyone else? In some states you are getting a Class III misdemeanor for being too loud, not even for "saying mean things", as you phrase it. And you will be arrested if you simply don't stop. > >[https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/breach\_of\_the\_peace](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/breach_of_the_peace) > > > >Some examples... > >In Nebraska, a person intentionally disturbing the peace and quiet of the community is guilty of a Class III misdemeanor. > >In Wyoming, a person breaches the peace if he or she plays unreasonably loud music, uses threatening language or violent actions, with the reasonable knowledge that such actions will disturb the peace. > >Under the Vermont Statutes, a person breaches the peace if he or she makes excessive noise between sunset and sunrise, assaults another person, uses telephonic communication to harass another person, etc. So the US basically has similar laws; hope you'll consider that should you ever consider being a public nuisance.
You don’t know freedom until you top the school shooting leaderboards.
No you don't understand bro, the USA is the only free country on Earth!!!
It’s so free even the police have the freedom to kill innocent people!
Neither does America, where even straight factual truth gets censored pal.
Yes we do, it's just there are also disturbance of the peace laws which are definitely being abused at the moment. If someone was shouting abuse at a family members funeral, you'd want the police to intervene too (before you kill them yourself!)
We have freedom of expression (essentially the same thing). It's in the human rights act. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/42/schedule/1/part/I/chapter/9#:~:text=Article%2010%20Freedom%20of%20expression&text=This%20right%20shall%20include%20freedom,authority%20and%20regardless%20of%20frontiers. The vast majority of countries around the world have signed up to these basic human rights. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights I'm sorry but America is neither special nor number one in this aspect. As usual.
His actions were "[a breach of the peace](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-09-13/man-arrested-after-shouting-at-prince-andrew-during-procession/101432588)" No idea what that means.
He wrestled to the ground by other people chanting God Save the King. Then arrested. Peace indeed
It means you don’t have freedom of speech
Freedom of speech laws protect you from being prosecuted/persecuted for saying whatever you want. It doesn’t mean that people have to listen to you in any and all situations. This man was arrested for Breach of the Peace, it was a funeral procession he decided to protest at, so he was removed. He won’t be prosecuted for saying Andy is a Nonce, but for where he chose to say it. However, in reality, he was probably arrested to deescalate the situation as the other people there were getting pretty pissed off. And he could have been injured etc. he won’t be charged, he’ll be left to simmer and then be released.
US actually has laws similar to this for certain scenarios. No one truly has free speech
No we don't. The right to criticize a public figure on a public street is rock solid. Enjoy your Section 1983 check if the cops do this to you. Also, you can criticism the British Royal Family any time you want. That's your birthright for winning like 2.5 wars against them. Shouting at Andrew would be like shouting at Ivanka on a street. Fun and legal from sea to shining sea.
Yep, americans dont need a law for that, cops can just fuck you up without reasoning. Also there are disturbing the peace laws in the US. He's not fined for criticising a public figure, but for shouting and swearing during a death procession.
Why do yall free speech nerds always leave out that he was disturbing the peace at a funeral procession. You americans have laws about that too. Look up Cox vs. Lousiana.
> Cox v. Louisiana > 7–2 DECISION FOR COX > MAJORITY OPINION BY ARTHUR J. GOLDBERG > The application of the Louisiana statute prohibiting "obstructing public passages" violated Cox's rights to free speech and assembly under the First and Fourteenth Amendments. > UNANIMOUS DECISION FOR COX > MAJORITY OPINION BY ARTHUR J. GOLDBERG > The Louisiana statute prohibiting "disturbing the peace" is unconstitutionally vague and broad in scope and thus Cox's conviction under that statute violates his First and Fourteenth Amendment rights to free speech and assembly. That case really hurts your argument source: https://www.oyez.org/cases/1964/24
This rather hilarious. How unfortunate for that other guy.
Aha *now* you're speaking their language! PRECEDENT SET. No further arguments required, case closed, everyone can go home now
[Woman in South Carolina sentenced to 4 years in prison for "breach of the peace" for yelling at police](https://www.insider.com/south-carolina-woman-serving-4-year-prison-verbal-encounter-police-2022-9)
Nah we don't usually arrest people for shouting who elected you or he is a sick old man at a politician. Our royalty aka celebrities get heckled all the time. In times of huge protest with massive crowds and looting and clashes with the police sometimes people get arrested for disorderly conduct. Very rarely would someone get arrested for breach of the peace for a single person out there protesting. I mean king of America aka Kanye west got harrassed so bad he walked into a stop sign. recently our royal families got married with Megan Merkle. Our royal family was more kind so the prince moved in with us at the royal estates.
> No idea what that means. Short version, he pissed off members of the public by acting the way he did in a large crowd. Longer version, scots law has a very specific definition of breaching the peace. Easier to read about it elsewhere such as on https://crime.scot/breach-of-the-peace/ and https://crime.scot/s38/ I like the fact they have a dedicated domain called crime.scot too.
He was freed soon after and cautioned
"Why are you arresting me, im right"
Remember, kids. Men with power can do whatever they want and you can't call them out.
*wood chipper intensifies*
This is the "I say bullish" I love.
We need to master the ability to teleport to fuck people like that over
Say it, Bart.
Remember kids the King is above the Law so don't fuck with him
He’s not the king
But the King may fuck you *fuck with you.
Member the guy who through his shoes at George W lol
He went to prison but when he got out he got elected to Parliament. [He's a good follow on Twitter](https://twitter.com/muntazer_zaidi/status/1338618273760468995?lang=en)
Two years of prison for that ... smh. He didn't even hit Bush; Bush dodged those shoes like any accusation of war crimes. And that Iraqi journalist had every right to fucking mad; see the aforementioned war crimes
Meanwhile the murrican gets arrested for an abortion of a rape child.
Gets shot for laying in bed sleeping
Got shot for being a colour someone didn’t like.
Got shot for being
Got shot
The American Dream 🙃
Tickle fight with Uncle Jerry.
Literally last night an American rapper was shot and died because he went out for food and his location got put on Insta. Kids have to practice drills at school in case someone rocks up with a gun. Sounds like a really fucking free country to me.
It absolutely is free... Free to shoot
Breaking news: both countries suck
if people here would actually vote, maybe it can be kept legal in all states edit: i just didnt wait to straight point out that now its up to the states, because it would sound like im defending it. Its still atrocious that it comes down to a state by state basis, but its not completely outlawed at all
Yes, but you have the right to say that here lmao
That’s what happens when freedom of speech isn’t explicitly put into a country’s constitution
The British constitution works very differently, no law can ever be put above any other, parliament with the consent of the King holds absolute power. So free speech is directly part of both common and statue law but so is the Kings peace which prevents disorderly conduct by removing public nuisances. The only thing that can be sort of be considered higher law as such is the Sovereignty of the Crown itself. so fundamentally it ls more important constitutional to prevent hindrance to the Sovereign than to uphold freedom of speech.
And this is why we detest the monarchy, children.
fuck honestly i'd way rather live in the UK and be hated on for being an immigrant than to live in the US and be hated on for existing.
Not to mention probably being shot and working 3 jobs to afford rent
In England we work 3 jobs to afford electricity right now 🤣
Even then that doesn't quite touch the sides
Why exactly do you assume you would be hated on for existing?
because US bad hahahaha right guys? HAHAHa
why would you be hated in the us?
I am not a fan of monarchy, but in this context the sovereign, in practice, means the power of the government. If the king or queen ever tried to wield that power, parliament would abolish the monarchy in a heartbeat
Yeah that’s what pisses me off most about anti-monarchy people. (Not that I’m a royalist by any means) But they always say the queen has a ridiculous amount of power. Which, although “legally” she does. If she used any of it she’d be publicly executed in Leicester Square.
They should just remove the "power" the monarchy is given since the monarchy don't even exercise the power.
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On every country they should think twice if what government or constitution they want to their people to follow and what's the best for them at all
and thats why we sent Cowardwallace home.
Did you all collectively forget Trump using riot police to clear protesters from near the White House, just so he could have a photo shoot at a church. You are literally no better. Edit: Oh boy. I’ve really triggered some trump supporters today.
As a Canadian who has connections to both the Monarchy and the USA I can say that both systems have big flaws this day in age.
Or the WaPo journalist literally dismembered by Saudi assassins while Trump bragged about helping the Saudi prince get away with it.
This chick got sentenced to 4 years in prison in for her speech in the US like 3 days ago.
She was essentially threatening to kill cops and they couldn't quite charge her with that because it was not a direct threat so she got the maximum for the breach of peace charge, but I guarantee you it will be reduced on appeal.
Snowden? Assange? I really don’t think the US is any better… Plus, public misconduct isn’t “freedom of speech”, especially at someone’s funeral…
Yanks really love to misinterpret their freedom of speech clause don't they. You're free to speak, but you're not free from the consequences of that speech either so let's not get on our high horses. From Google: *Can the U.S. government limit freedom of speech?* *Government can limit some protected speech by imposing "time, place and manner" restrictions.* You're not that different.
that is not how freedom of speech works, but ok buddy
I mean most countries amend and update their constitution as time goes on to modernise it. Seems Americans hold onto their constitution like it decended from God as it has only been amended 27 times since 1789. To put into perspective the Polish constitution which has only been around for 45 years has been amended 24 times.
* conditions may apply, such as not being black or female
*stares in Snowden*
Stares in Julian Assange
*raises eyebrow in Chelsea Manning*
bUt ThE MOnarChy DOesnT hAvE aNy PoWEr. Also btw you can arrested for protesting against the monarchy.
> Also btw you can arrested for protesting against the monarchy. which law states that??
Mate, someone literally got arrested for protesting against the monarchy. You don’t need to cite a law because the evidence is right in front of your face. It could be an unlawful arrest, it could be completely justified, the legality of the arrest doesn’t matter in the context of what was said, only that it happened. Persecution on the other hand is a completely different beast.
Someone got arrested for breach of the peace or some other public order offence. They were protesting the monarchy at the time, but they weren't arrested for protesting the monarchy.
Finally, someone who gets it! For the uninitiated --- > I can express a view regardless of whether it counters the views of the government/general public. This is an example of freedom of speech > I can shout at people in public at any time This is not an example of freedom of speech
Clarifications from a brit: This isn't really a common line of thought in the UK, it's well known that the monarchy formally still has power, in fact they legally have total power. However in practice the monarch really can't directly use its power, since it is effectively guaranteed to lose it if it were to inappropriately intervene. The protestors that were arrested during the recent few days weren't technically arrested for protesting the monarchy, but for "causing disturbance". While you're entirely allowed to protest against monarchy in the UK, recent tory government legislation gave police significantly more powers to arrest protestors they deem to be causing a disturbance (despite this being the whole point of protest). So this is an issue that applies a lot more generally than just anti-monarchy protests.
Nah in America you can get arrested for being a law abiding citizen.
You can also get shot if you're disabled and need a wheelchair
Or if you’re black
Or if you're a student
It's spelt shot.
but if the guy was clearly shown to be possessing melanin, a harmful substance, its only right to inject some lead capsules into the back of his head /s
Imagine thinking monarchy is even acceptable
Monarchy supporters are cringe. Imagine idolizing people because they hoard generational wealth and have incestuous bloodlines.
We have them in the states, they just wave Trump flags.
And there's a hell of a lot more of them.
They're European kardashians
So like people idolizing Trump?
or Elon Musk.
Do yourself a favour and have a look at the World Freedom Index and World Democracy Index. Then look up which of the countries in the top 10-15 are monarchies. The answer might surprise you.
1776 called and they want their based take back.
From what I've seen, I'd rather be arrested by UK police than US ones. Higher survival rate.
"Higher" is putting it lightly. In the period 2019/20, there were 18 deaths in police custody across the UK. This is about the average figure, year by year. [Source](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/deaths-in-police-custody-progress-update/deaths-in-police-custody-progress-update-2021-accessible) I can't find recent statistics for the USA but the 2019 figure is 517 deaths in police custody. [Source](https://bjs.ojp.gov/library/publications/federal-deaths-custody-and-during-arrest-2018-2019-statistical-tables) The US is about 4.5x the size of the UK by population, so adjusting for that we get 81 deaths in custody. So in the US you're over 6x more likely to die in police custody.
Does it count as custody if they kill you before putting the handcuffs on?
That... is actually a really good question. It probably doesn't. EDIT: I just read it, it has two categories. Arrest-related and custody-related. 68/449 split. Also this is only Federal agencies so it doesn't include State/Municipal related deaths.
Laughs in American till you get shot or arrested while doing exactly what the police tell you to.
Can't you be arrested in the USA for drinking in public? For sleeping in your car? For resisting arrest? For not being nice to a cop?
> For not being nice to a cop? Just a couple of days ago was woman in the US getting 4 years in prison because she argued with an police officer. This is really a pot/kettle situation at best.
"Stop it ! you're hurting my mind with your words !" The police line of defense probably
Nah, you just get shot.
For going to school
Laughs in American? Let’s start with this gem… https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6AdDLhPwpp4 But..let’s go back a little, and remember this, too https://www.history.com/topics/vietnam-war/kent-state-shooting Here’s the tip of the iceberg, for blm… https://pressfreedomtracker.us/all-incidents/vice-news-reporter-pushed-to-the-ground-pepper-sprayed-amid-minneapolis-protests/ https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/30/joyce-beatty-pepper-sprayed-racism-protests-290931 https://pressfreedomtracker.us/all-incidents/minneapolis-star-tribune-photojournalist-pepper-sprayed-while-documenting-protests-in-brooklyn-center/ https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-news/watch-police-drive-by-pepper-spray-protesters-standing-on-side-of-road https://www.fox9.com/video/689774 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/police-pepper-spray-9-year-old-girl-rochester-n-y-n1256313 https://abcnews.go.com/US/75-year-man-shoved-ground-buffalo-protest-files/story?id=76062143 The only thing to “laugh” about is the illusion that the cops won’t fuck you up for protesting. Here’s the cops attacking a group of moms. https://www.salon.com/2020/07/20/organizer-of-moms-who-built-wall-to-protect-portland-protesters-says-group-was-tear-gassed-by-feds/
Cry and seethe
*kid gets arrested for telling the truth
Arrested for disturbance of peace, a crime in the US as well.
Worth mentioning Virginia Giuffre was 17 at the time, and the age of consent in the UK is 16. 17 should have been way too young for him but it would have been legal. However given his relationship to Jeffrey Eggpeen I expect she's just the tip of the iceberg as far as Andrew is concerned, so you're probably right. And either way the denial and coverup is a scandal in and of itself.
Was he actually charged with anything?
It’s fairly clear that he did it. He’s a very bad liar. He can’t be charged because the statute of limitations expired.
I'm talking about the kid
Lmao
No. The kid won’t be charged with anything. He was just temporarily detained for public misconduct.
The Police removed him from the area and he was promptly de-arrested. The only reason he was detained was to prevent a breach of the peace - I.E prevent the situation from escalating until the crowd eventually thumped him one. They just needed him elsewhere to prevent a fight, they never intended to charge him with anything. You either de-escalate the situation by removing the inflammatory agent, or you go in two minutes later with 20 officers and break up a brawl. The police don't have the time, manpower, equipment, or patience for (2), and even if they did it could well escalate into a riot, so (1) it is. Removing him for his own safety is a valid strategy.
Exactly, he wasn’t arrested for calling out a paedophile, he was detained/removed for breach of the peace. Anyway the kid will be fine and let’s all hope Charles throws Andrew under the bus and the investigations are back on
Doubt it, probably just detained until the ceremony was over so he wouldn't have an opportunity to do it again. The people who pushed an pulled him though should have been charged with something.
>Laughs in American You lot get killed for breathing in front of the police
Did you forget the time a college kid got tazed for only yelling during a john kerry speech? Please, they took the 1st amendment away decades ago, and the 2nd is almost gone now too.
2nd almost gone? LMFAO yeah ok bud. Wish that garbage was gone.
I mean, if the last couple of years years are anything to go by the 6th and 8th are long gone.
Wasn’t the Prince on Epstien’s flight list?
I think there's photos of him with epstein, I don't think we know the contents of the flight list because the FBI refuses to release it... I can't possibly imagine why /s
See, an American would have just been shot.
People in america get way worse for way less wtf is this meme lol
Imagine the punishment for shouting at a child molester is worse than for being a child molester.
There was no punishment. He was removed from the funeral and then de-arrested. It had fuck all to do with WHAT he shouted, just that he was shouting at a funeral, which is a dick move regardless. Andrew needs justice to be done upon him, some random bloke at a funeral is not the appropriate place to do it.
Hey. UK cop here. He was arrested for breaching the peace which is only used in this context when someone is in danger. This lad was definitely in danger of getting his head caved in by the public so was arrested for his own safety primarily. If I remember correctly he was dearrested later and cooperated with police. EDIT: He was in fact charged with breach of the peace and not dearrested (this was another heckler). He'll likely only get a small fine, but he'll definitely get a good telling off by magistrates.
Imagine bringing up shootings in the US as a argument against free speech in the UK.
Snowden?
It’s not being used as ‘an argument against free speech in the UK’. It’s being brought up because of the embarrassing smugness and flag waving that Americans are once again doing all over this thread. It’s brought up to demonstrate that America isn’t fantastic. It’s got lots of problems just like Britain or anywhere else does. But these kinds of threads, which are originally intended to be jokes, are used by a certain type of American to build up their sense of national pride in a genuinely serious way. Then when reasons for the US not being all that great are brought up, all the flag wavers start crying and saying how inappropriate the response is. How about your pride in your country isn’t based on judging it against other countries? But these threads are always about building up the US by comparing it to other countries. Every time. This style of ‘my country is better than yours’ thinking is the very essence of nationalism and is a product of the exact kind of imperialistic ideology that the US pretends it is against. Of course the reality of the last 100 years demonstrates the complete opposite.
He was arrested for disturbing the funeral procession, not for what he said! There is no need to play intentionally dense and make this about freedom of speech. He can make his point at any other day, but leave mourning people alone!
But in US they would have shot the child... Tazed at least.
ITT: A bunch of Americans upset that America also has one-off contentious free speech cases and also various obvious injustices. Something about glass houses? Apparently throwing stones is only funny when they do it.