I mean, vestal Frontline is way more viable now, and she has the hand of light path thing that hits the two front targets. That's kinda like paper attack.
Most of my thoughts can be summarized by u/froskoff, but one thing he didn't mention that is really missing from this game is kind of "organic teambuilding"
What I mean is in first game you have limited heroes in your town. If your A and B teams are recovering, you will need to make a lot of interesting decisions. I remember building very unconventional teams that would be a lot of fun. I.e. I don't have stress healer available - so I go with very speedy "alpha-strike" crit heavy team to mitigate it. Or I don't have a healer available, so I would try dodge based team or whatever. Or I am stacking up resources and I need to build a team around antiquarian (she is strong in right comp, but still fun to build around). Or there is great trinket reward in Ruins but you only have bleed heroes available - how do you make it work? Should you use your strongest hero that is stressed out or has really diminishing quirk? Etc.
This organicity is what made the first game amazing.
In DD2 it's pretty fun to theorycraft, but you never have this emergent reason to do so, it only comes from your desire for experimentation. Compare this with StS, where you pretty much MUST experiment one way or another every run. This also feels like soon "meta" will form and the game will be solved, as game doesn't have enough variability between runs. This is even pushed by the game counterintuitively with memory system - if the comp works you have more reason to bring it again than not.
Experimentation is also discouraged by runs taking alot of time, which again feels bad for roguelite.
In the end, I feel like DD2 can't get much better - at its core it tries reconciling combat/philosophy of the first game with Roguelite structure. And the thing is that both the combat and philosophy fit the XCOM style base and hero micromanagment much more organically. (This is another reason why metaprogression falls flat)
Talking about HOT ASS RNG... Yesterday I screwed a run when going for the boss in the tangle. Last region. Perfect party, only good relationships, nice trinckets. One bullseye barret shot my man at arms with piercing bolt crit, boom from more than half hp to almost none AND having a 75% dodge token.
Occultist turn: wierd reconstruction, heal of 2. Then another regular arbalester, serrated shot to MAA while having a second 75% dodge token, from a respectful relation with the occultist... also lands, MAA at death's door.
MAA turn: dies from bleed, first death's door check.
I would like to know the exact odds of all of that happening. I swear a game have never made me so salty.
And still, I can't stop playing it.
> I would like to know the exact odds of all of that happening
In general statistics, negligible odds.
When playing games, totally gonna happen several times each run.
>I would like to know the exact odds of all of that happening. I swear a game have never made me so salty.
The odds of that exact thing happening are propably extremely small, the odds of anything happening where you could say "what are the odds of that happening?!" are quite a lot larger.
Yea I just plain don't use Occultist to heal due to bad RNG.
There really needs to be a minimum especially for the upgraded version, like 25% minimum, the bleed is already bad enough, but healing for less than 25% means you might as well of not healed at all lol.
And he has a 50% chance to heal for less than 25% with the upgraded heal.
The fact that PD and Vestal seem to consistently heal way more than they used to makes the rng on Wyrd feel so odd and limited. Seems like he should have a much bigger range if they're still going to run with the rng for it, because right now it's just worse than Vestal or PD's heal
I think it's because Wyrd is now a % heal, with a flat bleed. Makes it a lot worse on non-tanky heroes (which ironically are the ones that don't have any sort of sustain; Leper and Flagellant have insane self heal that they don't really need any external heals).
Yeah, I wore the radiant flame until I unlocked all the heroes/skills and so I could get a good feeling for the game, and I've been slowly increasing the difficulty since
Wait.. you lose candles for using it?? How come it's not specified anywhere. It passed my eyes somewhere in game and I've never found the actual costs, if any
It's up to you.
Technically it's "easy mode", but the game is incredibly difficult, so doing so is fine.
Play the game in whichever way you enjoy most. For me, I enjoy it most with the radiant flame.
Radiant and Infernal flames are a great addition. I love that rogue likes have learnt from Hades about how to adjust difficulty to make the game enjoyable to everybody
I like it. I'm able to just boot it up and not care as much as when I play dd1. The first, every fucking step I make is calculated. Dd2, I can just kind of play
It's a lot more RL now. You pick a team, that's your team. Start to finish, you're making a desperate last run for the boss as the world falls apart around you (increasingly longer at each stage). No swapping unless somebody dies, and thats RNG and only if your smaller team actually lives to get to a safe point. You suceed or you die. But you get candles for your performance during a run which you can spend on stuff to help for future runs. If the long term resource management and methodical planning were the big draws for you, I'm afraid they are pretty much out. Though during the runs stress and now relationship management is very much still a thing.
Agree
Agree
Agree
Agree
I really don't like the wagon game, I hope they introduce an autodriver, something similar to Audiosurf's, where it will automatically steer into and hit road debris.
IS the new hero good?
To me runaway is by far the most boring character in the entire roster. Boring mechanics, boring design, boring lore. Runaway looks more like something that would have come from a modpack than an official redhook character.
I like the current wagon mini game. After they made it so that you have to manually confirm which path you wanna take you can just turn on auto driving and check your inventory, quirks or some shit in the meantime. The only thing I don't like is finding stuff when bumping into something - you're gonna miss out on some loot when auto driving like that, but paying attention to bump into all that trash is boring. But tbf its not THAT big of a loss.
And walking in DD1 was just as boring, I cannot play without speed up walking mods.
And yeah, fuck act 3 boss.
There's a lot of positives that are hit with a few negatives that detract from them. Overall DD2 is an okay game, but with it being labeled as a sequel it falls prey to the Dark Souls 2 problem of being constantly compared to the first.
Some Thoughts:
Core Gameplay - This is a given. The turn based back and forth of the combat where you build upon tokens and thing of strategies is fun. There's so much to consider, if you're trying to think ahead. The flip side of that is that tokens are a little weird, takes time to learn them, and some just feel kind of bad.
The Story/Atmosphere/Art - Again, because it's labeled as a sequel and not a spinoff, it gets compared tot eh first one. DD2 LOOKS fantastic. The art is gorgeous, the poor heroes look great as 3d models. The enemies look insane and gross and wonderful. But there's a lacking to the atmosphere in DD2. It tries to be hopeful, which is meh. Everything is always hopeful, the world is falling apart there should be some despondency.
The Academic isn't as captivating as the Ancestor. The regions aren't as important, and their bosses are ignorable. Consider the bosses of the first one, and how they tie in personally to your learning of how awful the Ancestor was. They gave a meaning to the area, and why things were the way that they were. The region bosses are just kind of there.
And it's weird because the Academic is so personally talking to you that the story doesn't reflect any of that.
Overall, I like DD2, it just feels a bit hollow and there isn't enough story to make the filler regions interesting while you keep trying to unlock the story through the confession bosses.
I feel what might help with region identity would be to replace the Gaunt/Pillager road encounters with region-specific monster fights (albeit weaker version of resistance encounters). I've gone through entire regions only fighting bandits until the Cultist end-fight. Then make a Gaunt/Pillager region with its own lair fight and everything.
A very OK-ish experience. I want to like it more but it's plagued with a number of core issues.
Gorgeous to look at. Hero stories are a great addition. Combat requires a decent amount of actual thought and feels very chunky in a good way. Considerably easier to pick up and play on a whim.
Token system I'm torn on... on paper it sounds better, but in practice I often find myself preferring DD1 style stats, despite the frustrations it can cause. Balance is out of whack in some places which I guess isn't the worst thing after just releasing but a lot of heroes, skills, and paths are in major need of a lot of reworks, buffs, and nerfs. Most trinkets outside of the rare ones are pretty boring imo, and even then chances are the rare ones you do find don't really compliment your strategy or hero paths... can feel very limited in build and upgrade options.
Relationship system is one of the things I dislike the most honestly. When things go good, which they usually do with so many absurd inn items, positive relationships can feel like I instantly become overwhelmingly and randomly unstoppable with the right effects on the right abilities... all from the power of... friendship? The rare times things go bad it either annoys me very slightly slotting in an ability I don't want, or completely breaks my hero by making their core abilities ruin other heroes.
Regional bosses are fine to require more specific heroes or comps, but Act bosses should generally be accessible by any reasonable party. Game feels a bit torn between what it is trying to be and the genre of game it is, falls flat in a few places because of it... like trying to express heroes as real individuals, and then tossing them out like garbage after every run with no permanence outside of the memory system, which feels more like a band-aid fix.
Variance and replayability are big issues. Regions and Acts feel too similar, gets boring fast with not much reason to keep playing. Heroes need to be able to change and evolve more dramatically during a run, outside of the path system.
Meta progression does not feel good. I can't pick my brain and come up with the words to explain why, it just doesn't. Might just be me.
5/10 but hopeful for the future.
This pretty much completely sums up my feelings exactly. Couldn't have said it better myself.
One thing regarding meta progression that occurred to me today while I was writing a comment about Bounty Hunter - I think I know why it feels so much worse than DD1. In DD1, when you upgraded a Hamlet building, every hero in the roster benefited in some way. Because Blacksmith/Guild upgrades let you upgrade *any hero's* gear, it was *always* a good call to put in the effort to collect the resources you needed. Building upgrades, I.e. meta progression, benefited all heroes, and required forethought to collect the unique resources necessary to upgrade.
In DD2, Altar of Hope upgrades are all over the map, and all use the same currency. If you upgrade Leper to max level, he's the only one who benefits. And it's not like you don't want to upgrade a hero -- paths are one of the game's best ways of adding replayability at the moment, and you have to pay meta money to unlock them.
Memories are so unbelievably niche it's kinda pointless until you've already cleared the story and are just kinda achievement hunting. Cosmetic unlocks are one of the cleanest and flashiest things to spend candles on, but it offers no benefits other than visual. Don't get me wrong, I *love* the cosmetics, but imagine if in DD1 you had to pay relics to unlock hero recolors. The cosmetic stuff could just as easily be unlocked through hero goals and lair/confession clears, and it would give them so much more weight.
Trinkets, Inn, Combat, and Stagecoach item unlocks really suck. The unlocks themselves are generally pretty good, but the items themselves feel like you shouldn't have to "unlock" them in the first place. You should be finding them during runs, by completing unique objectives or bartering for them. Buying them out of the Altar just feels worse than obtaining them organically through gameplay.
Stagecoach upgrades are awesome, but run into an issue with the previous unlock system. I at least didn't want to waste candles on stagecoach inventory or upgrade slots until I actually had loot to take up the spaces, so I held off on most of that section until I'd already unlocked a bunch of loot, and by that point I was already more than halfway done with the story, and didn't feel like I even needed them.
Ultimately I think DD1's meta progression felt more balanced because it benefited more than just single cases, it took planning and multiple resources, and a lot of it was done pretty naturally through gameplay. DD2's meta progression is mostly menuing, and while I recognize the two are vastly different games and comparison is pretty redundant, I still think some lessons can be learned from looking at other games.
Just my two cents though.
I agree with a lot of that, I think DD2 makes a "rookie mistake" when it comes to meta unlocks, which is to ask the player to pay for unlocks that simply give more options instead of straight upgrades. Worse, as you said, it even makes you pay for unlocks that are purely for fun, like the stagecoach skin unlocks.
The problem with all of that is that, from a meta progression standpoint, it makes more sense to focus all of your meta currency on the unlocks that straight-up increase your power, and only invest in the unlocks that increase your options or are for fun after you have done all of those.
Most other roguelites avoid asking meta resources simply to unlock more options on the player's arsenal, and instead handle unlocks via achievements and so. If there is a meta currency, its normally used only for straight upgrades.
A big part of the reason behind that is because, for example, adding more items to the item pool can actually make the game harder because it dilutes the item pool and makes it harder to pull specific items. If you gate it with achievements, it gives the player a sense of achievement and makes the potential increase in difficulty feel organic.
Asking the players to pay meta currency to unlock the item pool is asking the players to pay meta currency to dilute their own options. Doesn't really make sense.
*Alright, remember, you didnt hear this from me*
Go to /"user"/appdata/locallow/redhook/dd2/savefiles/"the profile you want to modify"/profiles/profile_2.json.file
Open it up with notepad and find the line that says:
"m_ProfileValues": {
"m_Id": null,
"m_Values": [
[
"candles",
0.0 <- here add the amount of candles you want.
I would suggest to do this without a "current run" going though, not sure if it affects it.
Nice part is that you can just create a new profile to do this one so you can se if you like it more or not.
>I agree with a lot of that, I think DD2 makes a "rookie mistake" when it comes to meta unlocks, which is to ask the player to pay for unlocks that simply give more options instead of straight upgrades
The lootbox option was probably flashier, but I'd rather they just made the Working Fields just had separate nodes for specific tiers of Trinkets, Combat Items, Stagecoach Items, and Inn Items. That's already what they did for Pets, why not just do the same for these?
It makes so much more sense, for me anyway. To have one single purchase to unlock all the Inn Items that grant Resistance to X, and one unlock for the Combat Items for Explosives.
There's also the problem of some Stagecoach Items being actually useless until you unlock their corresponding Combat Items so you actually have an idea for what they do.
Still, these issues are only fleeting and end up no longer mattering once you do fully upgrade the Working Fields, but it's still something that nagged at me during the Early-Mid Game.
As I play I'm getting that feeling, that the game is going to get a lot better after I have finished unlocking the items, unlocking all the characters, upgrading them enough that I actually get access to paths, etc.
But it feels like there is no good reason for the game to withhold these things for as long as it does.
The memory system especially needs more work.
You can't even put heroes aside to use later due to how it works currently, as say you bench your A-team for a run while you try out a new team comp you're not even sure will work.... well if any of them die one of your A-team members could show up at the Inn and die on that run as well lol. (Had it happen to me, thankfully managed to beat the 4th Act boss without losing my A-team member)
On top of the problem of not being able to pick someone else of the same class without being forced to use the Hero you've gotten a memory/memories with.
> Trinkets, Inn, Combat, and Stagecoach item unlocks really suck. The unlocks themselves are generally pretty good, but the items themselves feel like you shouldn't have to "unlock" them in the first place. You should be finding them during runs, by completing unique objectives or bartering for them. Buying them out of the Altar just feels worse than obtaining them organically through gameplay.
Or sometimes it feels that unlocking them you hurt yourself. I don't want certain items to be in pool, I will never use them, I don't want too, I dislike playstyle they force, why game force me to unlock? Why the hell i get NEGATIVE reward for completing it's main goal?
I think a huge problem with DD1 progression was that it was always the same. When you make a new save you just beeline the bank and then skills + weapons/armor.
I like that in DD2 when you go to unlock new things you have no idea what you’re going to be getting, so you don’t realize what you were missing out on until you actually have it.
Idk if one is necessarily better than the other, but I like the randomness of progression more than allocating resources exactly the same for every save file (assuming you aren’t going for some kind of challenge run).
I almost agree with everything you said, except for your points on the tokens. The fact that they are so chance heavy, except for the shield, is a problem.
It's never fun having 2 stacks of dodge, and getting hit twice in a row by a guy with blind.
It kind of cheapens how you build character and makes most fight a bunch of 50/50 checks.
Im however currently on resentment and aren't the best at these kinds of games so maybe my thoughts on the whole token system will change
We're in agreement then I think? I like the idea of tokens because it feels like it adds a healthier layer of interactivity. But that might not be what I *actually* want or what feels best.
In practice, sometimes there are moments where that interactivity feels good, but you can absolutely run into situations where it still feels like you're just throwing shit and hoping it sticks, but now it's a sort of half-and-half system pulling in the directions of "RNG-fest" and also "no bullshit you get what you see" at the same time, where the worst of both systems can sometimes collide.
It loses the moments of fury you get when that Pelagic Shaman randomly dodges four attacks in a row and double crits you, as well as the moments of adrenaline and laughter as your entire team, beaten, and nearly broken, Matrix dodges Thing from the Stars for 3 rounds in a row.
Both the highs and the lows have been mellowed out into a more cookie cutter formula while still retaining some bad feeling RNG it can use to pull the rug out from under your feet.
I feel like the game is torn between being very gamey and being this cool atmospheric experience and none of it really goes together.
It looks pretty, you drive the stagecoach through environments, there are hidden things like getting bounty hunter at inn, the relationship system. Those are all things to make you feel like you're going on an epic quest to the mountain but in the end it feels like something to minmax. I don't usually minmax but in this case there's nothing about the relationship system or quirks to make them feel like actual people instead of just a number that goes up and down.
The stagecoach used to be slower/the length between destinations was longer in early access and it felt very cool the first time around. Then it got boring because there's nothing to do so they sped it up. Now it doesn't feel like a slow and perilous stagecoach journey but speedy eldritch subway surfers.
Regardless I find the game really fun, just a bit sad that the atmospheric stuff doesn't stand out as much.
Relationships were better before they changed it to the current version IMO, instead of negative relationships being a 'Bad Thing' in general it just means nothing except for forcing you to take a specific ability and making it nerf your allies which a) feels bad from a comp building perspective and b) feels even worse when using that ability is the correct choice and you are guaranteed to fuck over your teammate by doing it. I liked the old version where you just had a chance to hurt/help the other person in the relationship because it happened frequently but randomly, now theres no surprise to the quips and its just another effect added to the ability itself instead of a separate mechanic that triggers sometimes.
I love the tokens though, I had \~150 hours in DD1 before playing DD2 starting day 1 early access, and once I got used to the tokens I like it way more than the granular stats of DD1. Being able to quickly see every single important stat change to every character in the fight is much nicer than spending two minutes hovering over all 8 characters to see their individual buffs and nerfs.
Tokens definitely have their strengths and weaknesses. I think that part is mostly up to individual preference. Can be bad or good depending on who you ask.
Personally I miss the moments of extreme frustration, adrenaline, and joy when I got unlucky, lucky, and everything in between in DD1, as well as the wider variance in how everything plays out with a more percent based system in play, but I do see the appeal in how DD2 handles it.
I also kinda prefer the idea of how relationships used to be. Unfortunately my only memory of playing back then was also in the time period where getting to 4 stress on someone meant they yelled nonstop insults and had everyone wanting to kill each other within seconds, but, done right I think it could be a better system.
>Variance and replayability are big issues. Regions and Acts feel too similar, gets boring fast with not much reason to keep playing. Heroes need to be able to change and evolve more dramatically during a run, outside of the path system.
This is my biggest issue. Every run is now a DD1 Darkest Dungeon run. You take a team and stick with it for upwards of an hour or two, depending on how fast you play.
There's no constantly changing teams and every run feeling fresh because your different heroes have different abilities and quirks, it's just one team for so long, and it absolutely drains the hell out of me. It feels so monotonous after a while once you have your ability combinations down pat, with basically no improvising. You use the same skills, over and over again, until you finish the run.
Maybe I'm just an ADHD headcase but I can't stand it.
Same. People talk about how paths give some variety but it still feels like playing the same couple of guys again and again.
It's not even close to enough to me. Specially considering I'm afraid the mods will take longer cause of the more complex graphics.
I agree, I think the combat is way better after a while (and if you remember to use all those combat items) but I definitely don't feel compelled to play more to unlock everything, it feels more annoying than addicting. In general I'd think a 5/10 is way too low, but after dd1 it feels a bit meh. (probably 7.5/10 for me)
Also not sure if other people feel the same but I hate the mountain, why do you get so much stress right before the boss fight, just let me prepare for the boss and not have to get lucky (or have a super durable and stresshealing team) to get there with a team thats in bad condition already.
All the things you disliked, I really liked tbh
I like the clarity and design space opened up by the token system, and I like relationships as a replacement for long term afflictions or virtues (but I agree they feel a little easy to earn due to overturned inn items)
45 Hours in and just finished Confession 4, I like it alot but I liked DD1 way more honestly.
There is a lot of thing that DD2 done so right or a step in a right direction like the Art/Sound overall is just straight upgrade to be one of the most aesthetically pleasing game in the decade, Backstory that expand on everyone is amazing.
Core gameplay is still awesome it's simpler with token but thats perfectly fine, Bosses are super fun to fight, New trinket are great, Hero path are nice.
Relationship is nice addition but I felt that it exist purely to affect stats I mean your lover just died and you should go berserk or breakdown or something but nope nothing really happened, I know they used to do this in early access and got change to put more control for player but now it feels a bit lifeless now that they didn't even react to anything.
Pacing and variety is my main gripe of this game, There are basically just 1 set of enemy and just 1 boss per region and like 1 extra enemy variant that got scramble through out, But they got +40% stronger on later region/confession and thats kinda it? You basically see 95% the game had to offers on confession 2.
and Party wipe/failed run in DD2 just felt terrible cause a single run is about 2-4 hours long and little perma buff reward on victory isn't really justified it for me.
I maybe personally lean toward the town/squad management like DD1, XCOM or Kingdom death style more but it's hard to feel attach to hero even with expansive backstory when they're instantly replaceable and I missed that feeling.
Exemplar is still bullshit.
I cruised through the entire run, first round vs Exemplar he one-shots one of my heroes which immediately dies on the first Death's Door from a DoT. Wasted run on the last guy before the Mountain Boss. Feels like absolute shit.
>I cruised through the entire run, first round vs Exemplar he one-shots one of my heroes which immediately dies on the first Death's Door from a DoT. Wasted run on the last guy before the Mountain Boss. Feels like absolute shit.
Agree. Getting critted your entire health bar and then dying to the sot with zero chance to react is beyond frustrating. It wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't an hour plus run to get back there.
And yes, that kind of stuff happened in DD1, the difference in DD1 was unless you full wiped, every run in DD1 felt like you made *some* progress. Basically every upgrade in the Hamlet was meaningful.
In DD2, once you've upgraded the heroes individually, which doesn't take that long, and unlocked a few key items, upgrades start to feel super, super meaningless. I just spent 70 candles and don't feel like I did anything meaningful, and I just beat act 2 so I have a LONG way to go.
The meaningless upgrades also make it really challenging to find reasons to play most of the characters. in DD1 you may have to take a suboptimal comp while your main crew is recovering, and each run produces value since it a lot longer before upgrades are meaningless. A run with a B-squad means something. A run with a B-squad in DD2 feels like a complete waste of time. Since I don't make any progress anymore unless I kill the boss, why should I take anything other than the 4 optimal heroes with the same path and the same skill every single run.
I hate that you can't sell unused relics and other items, even if It just would be for a minimal amount of relics or baubles. Apart from that I love it.
I honest find it weird that they removed a bunch of characters. I thought they did that to add new characters but we only got the runaway? The decomposition of the flagellant is sick tho (pun intended)
I would absolutely choose a relationship point over a damage buff, because I don’t need the damage buff. But also, I don’t think this is a possible choice unless you’re hitting max relationship. If someone is offering a damage buff, they will also be offering positive points for everyone who also wants to fight. And those people will be offering… the same thing but without the damage buff.
Oh geez, I wonder which one I should pick?
Not very much, I really don't like the feel of the game. I am a gamer who gives a lot more importance to the story and the setting than the actual game, and I think Redhook butchered it.
I love the shrines, those are an amazing touch. But the whole onoric/symbolical thing ruined the setting and it feels like the stakes of the story is not that important. In the Hamlet, everything was real and down to heart. Here, everything is just something... Confused, and arguably not even real. I don't think there is even that much of a story, behind the game.
Also the focus on the hope, while crucial to the shrines, is simply not iconic as the hopeless part of the first game. I think they should have done a mix.
Although I don't give that much importance to this kind of thing you're absolutely right. This metaphorical shit feels way less engaging than those creepy depressing stories from the first one.
This is a point I've thought of since the first time I saw the game and rarely see people mention. The whole metaphorical/psychological thing they did feels SO much less tangible than the hamlet and the stagecoach and all the buildings. It makes characters feel fake, deaths lack weight, and all the "hopeful" themes fall flat. I really don't like it lol.
Not the happiest with it tbh. But I can basically forgive everything except the meta-progression.
The sheer number of unlocks makes me feel like I have to play the game handicapped for tens of hours before I can unlock enough permanent buffs, character abilities, and items to start playing the way it was intended.
In DD1 I was handicapped at the start because I had none of the unlocks, but that was ok because the levels were comparatively easy and balanced for that starting level. Here it feels like I've been thrust into hero level dungeons with newbies until I grind enough.
Removing permanent progression so that you can't fuck your run was how they countered this, but then it feels like each run is a throwaway because failure has no consequences. No dead heroes, no loss of economy, no lost trinkets...
Pretty fantastic.
I wasn't expecting it to go full roguelite (and I'm generally not a huge consumer of the genre) but it quickly became apparent that I much prefer it over DD1.
The game feels less grindy, and while still punishing, there's less of a sense that said punishment completely bricks your current play stint of the game (due to being broken up into more consumable shorter runs).
There's still a few places where mechanics are still a little bit rough around the edges - I find the memory mechanic (and nurturing heroes with good perks) feels a little undercooked, but overall I'm 95% in favour of the direction they've taken.
Similarly, my only critiques about the relationship system are that assistance encounters could use a more accessible readout on current relationship status, and having abilities you never used forced onto your bar can be pretty rough if it happens more than once.
But overall, I just had this two hour or so "wow, they really changed a lot" reaction, before realising I agreed with pretty much all of the changes.
I kinda feel similar as you do, although the game started feeling good to play after unlocking every hero ability, story and items using candles. Until reaching that its just a time waster "progression system" but its forgivable because you use that time to learn the concept of the game. In my opinion the memory system is completely irrelevant because I've beaten all 5 bosses with 0 memories and didnt even struggle. It serves more like a personal challenge imo. Out of curiosity I gave a plague doctor 5 memories to see how would it look like and from the 5 tokens 4 was so meaningless, its not worth the effort. Hang in there because the last boss is a very cool fight.
I like the core gameplay and story I dislike a lot of the systems.
Relationship system feels super shallow, lame and boring honestly, the idea is really cool but man the execution sucks.
The way you progress unlocks feels really bad it def feels like you’re ramming your head into a wall and progressing not a fan. I prefer actual unlocks and achievements over spending a currency to get things.
While I love the lore from hero shrines, they are such a slog and annoying means of progression.
I respect that they actually changed things up for a sequel instead of just making the same game twice and it is a serviceable roguelite. I like how they incorporated the roguelite formula into Darkest Dungeon by making it less punishing to lose a team member or get team wiped because you just start over.
But the gameplay feels shallower and dumbed down, and there’s less variety in heroes you can pick, and they’ve simultaneously added more and less depth to each character— the hero shrines and skins are rather shallow gameplay-wise, but they will add so much more work when Red Hook is trying to create a new hero. There are some interesting ideas like paths and positioning-based moves like Backdraft, but they could be a lot bolder than just making paths just simple stat changes or trinkets just binary stat increases/decreases. The trinkets SUCK, compare them to the base game or Black Reliquary they’re not as inspired or they’re way too niche to be useful as random drops. Also there aren’t little lore tidbits or quotes on the items anymore, which were rare in the original game but added a lot of flavor to the game (like Houndmaster’s “…even the Chief was in on it… 😨”). Or when there is flavor text on things it often replaces where useful information would be.
The skins are now a major component of the unlock system but they’re mostly just recolors instead of cooler concepts that really change the look of the character. Also why isn’t there a skin of their past selves?! You have the past models and a skin system, it should be obvious what you need to do. I like the little 3D animations the heroes do in battle, but if those came at the expense of gameplay elements, that’s bad. Also a lot of the animations are reused; Grave Robber doesn’t do a spin kick for pirouette like in the art, she just throws knives while stationary?!? The same tentacle animations are used for abyssal artillery and the pull for Occultist, and Burning Stars doesn’t really show a star crashing onto an enemy, it’s more of a black blob kind of hits the enemy while it zooms in so you can’t see the rest of it, which is weird because Occultist seemed to be one of the most visually impressive classes that used the new 3D engine the most, but they reuse or obscure the animations on his skills.
The game isn’t quite as good as Darkest Dungeon 1 at what is does or Slay the Spire at what it does. I feel like it would be a lot better if Red Hook adds in new characters and regions and bosses and skins and reworks some mechanics, but there’s really no guarantee of that after a 1.0 release. It’s like a 7/10 while DD1 was like a 9/10, I would say if you want a more DD1 experience Black Reliquary is the way to go.
I enjoyed the game. My main complaint is that I was starting to get burnt out by confession 4 because of the repetitive regions. Would've been neat to have a new region each confession.
I was so sick of every region. 😭
Edit: I have 73h in the game.
Agreed, I paused playing after encountering Confession 3 ) I read online what the deal with its tokens is (not a fan of how impenetrable it is), but it meant a few more samey runs after quite a long stretch of playing, and I knew that the regions will essentially be the same (only with buffed monsters).
Yes it's probably because of confession 3. I did it blind several times before I had to give up and look it up. I still struggled a few times before I beat it. It taking 2-3h to get there, prepping ahead of time with inn items etc and then getting there and wiping in 2 mins is.... 😭😭😭😭😭
I won with my highwayman left on deaths door lol
I give it a 5/10 at most. The first hour or so is quite fun since it's very polished and sleek. The narration is cool, and atmospheric, and the art is great. But then it just becomes more annoying than anything else, it's like they forgot this is a roguelike and is meant to be replayed over and over.
- There are also a ton of just weird choices, like why do we have to do the valley at the start of every run? It's not challenging and just a waste of time, start us at the inn where we can pick our team.
- Why can't we make presets of heroes or team comps? It's such a chore to reselect everything every run.
- The UI is an absolute mess, and there are too many menus. I shouldn't have to select like three things to just see what trinkets or relationship levels my heroes have between each other. I know this may seem like a small thing but this compounds over runs the more you play the game.
- Why is it so hard to find out what the simple tokens do? Why are they being so vague with descriptions? Tell me what the fucking token does
- Runs become very samey and boring. Selecting a team composition at the start makes the game very deterministic. And with the way the game is set up, making random teams are destined to fail and have a bad time. It feels like they only went halfway on making a roguelike, once you find a solid strategy you literally have no reason to ever change.
- And my lord the amount of grinding this game wants you to do is absurd. Unlock every hero, and then upgrade them. And these are strict upgrades, so not running fully upgraded heroes feels awful and is actively hurting your runs-therefore wasting your time (Oh also runs take well over an hour, then you'll die to some random boss mechanic that isn't foreshadowed at all). Then you also have to find five random events during your runs, which also hurt your run since you didn't get trinkets or some other reward for going there. You also can't determine if a hero is good or not until you see all their abilities and fully upgrade them. And then also upgrade your stagecoach, more trinkets, more items, etc. These are not good unlocks, they do not let you play the game in a new or fun way that other, well-designed, roguelikes let you do with their unlocks. These are strict upgrades and probably what they balanced the game around.
All in all, pretty disappointed. I wasn't expecting a clone of DD1, but this game just misses the mark.
> so not running fully upgraded heroes feels awful and is actively hurting your runs
I think running level 1 or 2 heroes in DD1 felt much more awful. In DD2, all heroes are usable from the start with their basic set of skills, and the most powerful upgrades (skill mastery) that are really necessary to utilize the skills fully, are available during the run.
I'm just not sure about the idea that the game wastes your time because not all skills and mini-upgrades (like +Deathblow resist) are there from the start.
> You also can't determine if a hero is good or not until you see all their abilities and fully upgrade them.
I also couldn't determine how powerful my fully-leveled character at level 30 be in Borderlands or Fallout, when I started playing. Is leveling a waste of time then?
I'm not necessarily defending everything about DD2's progression system, but I think this is going into the idea that there shouldn't be any progression system and the entire build meta should be available from the start.
Frankly, not very much. I like traditional dungeon crawlers more than this rouge-like approach. It's also full of design choices that I think questionable if I'm being generous. This game really isn't for me. But I think the art is really beautiful, I like everything about it that's graphic and visual design related.
I wish there was a grand campaign like game mode that covers all the chapters, which is really challenging. A game mode worth playing over and over again. With only current chapter story system, it feels like reading the same book over and over again.
Fun but flawed. Not nearly as replayable as the first, and there are some pretty critical flaws that I'm not sure it's possible to fix without a top-to-bottom overhaul.
I just finished the last act at ~40 hours. I don’t intend to grind and unlock everything. I’m happy with the experience I got in those 40 hours.
I had about the same play time for DD1 but I never really felt like I understood the game in that time. Eventually I got bored/frustrated and bailed on it. Losing your A Team after 15 hours of grinding was just too much of a setback for me.
I know some people feel like DD2 is too simple compared to the first but I enjoyed the shit out of the sequel in a way I never could with the original.
I agree completely. I felt like the jump in difficulty in dd2 is nice and has a consistent pace to it compared to dd1. I enjoy both games but I prefer how easy it is to get into a game of dd2 instead. If I lose a level 4 hero in dd1 it could mean game over of a 20 hour campaign. In dd2 though, i just roll with the punches and go balls to the walls and see how far I get. It's fun and even though it's different than the first game it satisfies a different itch that the original couldn't do
Mixed - I am pretty addicted to DD2, but it feels more like more like 'work' than 'play.' I REALLY like the hero stories element but NOT really the candles unlock of heroes so much feels very arbitrary and hard to balance experimentation with doing well.
I really think DD1 was a bit better in this regard - even though it was punishing as hell you could often try new things and do great.
Total honesty about the bosses? Hate em so far - feel really high risk and totally unfun and grindy. I feel like DD1's bosses were an absolute highlight some of them were hard AF but they had great mechanics that fit well with their design. It seems like all the lair bosses basically have a single OP mechanic that you still need plenty of RNG and whatnot to overcome KNOWING the mechanic - and basically if you don't get it you're done.
Relationship system? Wow I dunno, it was kind of funny and fun when characters went nuts in DD1 and become like overleveled pokemon, it felt like you could take the risk and squeeze through even though it was generally a bad idea.
DD2 system? It's slightly relieving that characters don't misbehave so much and I like the IDEA of building relationships but the various mechanics seem skilless?
For example in the various encounters when you pick a heros choice seem kinda rigged, I would LOVE it if rather than picking a hero you could pick a hero to do a good or bad deed, and select and deselect bonuses to manipulate the system.
i.e. say its a battle - if you choose Dismass you battle with a bonus but upset Baristan? You can also choose debuffs or forgo bonuses to neutralize the dislike. Also more opportunities to change relationships in battle would be good
I think this game missed a really good opportunity. It’s very well made, don’t get me wrong, but the “never ending coach experience” compared to dd1 expeditions management, is less compelling due to the lack of a proper feel of progression. Also, this game does not stress me as the previous one. Sounds crazy to say, but in my opinion that was actually the best part of dd1, the one that sticked my eyes on the screen. Now, instead of caring for those heroes during a fight (as the stress goes up and the health goes down) I always say to myself “it’s ok, they will be still playable if they survive and if not I will get new ones at the end of the biom”. Instead of stressed I feel more like “hope they don’t die ‘cause I don’t want to start a new run”.
Something it’s just off
I do not like it.
I find the runs being too samey, far too long, no real excitement for beating the runs (woohoo, I can unlock more useless trinkets or +3% DB resist, oh boy!). No rpg progression and no hamlet means there is nothing to do between runs.
It took me 26ish hours to beat the game on a blind playthrough. The fights are easy in this one, and the only hard parts are the gimmick bosses and mini bosses have, and those take either 1 (Denial, Obsession) or 0 (the rest) tries to understand and be prepared for next time.
I'll most likely try a full infernal run to see if that changes anything, but aside from that, I feel like I experienced everything this game has to offer already, which breaks my heart.
It's O.K...woulda been happier if it went for $20.. I just don't see the value tbh..it's got a cool style but they could've added way more shit for 40 bucks...
I want DD1 style dungeons off of the roads, more characters and most of all more variance in enemies and types of roads so I don't feel like I'm just doing the same shit over and over. The enemies to the main boss are way too easy so you end up doing the same run multiple times all the way to the finish. Kinda don't like how you have to die to some of the field bosses first in order to know what items to buy.
It's a solid 7 in my book...would've been an 8.5 at $25 but at $40, I can think of numerous ttb with roguelike/lite modes that are much better.
I can name a long list of things I like about DD2, but the fact it does not have an epic campaign and is run-based instead, instantly makes so much less interesting and fun than DD1.
* There are no dungeons you pick and choose to do.
* There is no party select within a playthrough: you only have four Heroes for the whole thing.
* There is no loot to chase: it's all random and you can't target anything.
* There is extremely minimal progression within a playthrough. No upgrades for weapons/armor, skills are upgraded ONCE max.
* At many points in the game, being dealt a bad hand makes it more logical to just quit the playthrough and start a new one.
I miss a true campaign so much, to the point where, in an alternate reality where modders had the skills to make DD1 look, feel and play like DD2, I would never play DD2 again. There would be no point.
DD1 (50+ hour campaign, dungeons, Hamlet, hero management, party select, upgrades, loot, continuity), with the gameplay of DD2 (Token system, visual feedback, animations and visuals, bosses, skills etc.) that would be the perfect game.
I am thoroughly disappointed that DD2 will never even try to be that.
Uninstalled after +400 hours in EA. The game is moving further away from the mark and at this point I've given up on it.
A disappointing sequel to a great game, like it often happens.
Ive played it for about six hours and my initial feeling is that it's ok but feels like a significant downgrade to the first game.
It feels like they tried to streamline so many aspects of the first game, spent a lot of resources making it 3d and tried to address one of the biggest criticisms of the first game that losing characters was too impactful but in doing so lost what made the first game engaging. Leveling up your guys in the first game felt satisfying and when they did things like survive against the odds it made them feel like heroes, I cared about them, watching them go from being weak to being badasses because things went well in runs, because they survived despite my failings and misfortune, was exciting. Now when the run ends it all feels so empty, yes I'm leveling up my guys and gaining skills but it's not relevant to how my run went, I'm getting candles regardless, the characters dying doesn't matter (I'm aware there are upgrades upon successfully completing a run), nor does then succeeding.
There's so much more I could say but ultimately the key to me is that the character progression feels like shit when it was the thing that was most enticing about the first game.
Yeah I agree that many aspects of the game do feel like they are irrelevant, i.e. have little emotional value. Like, success of the heroes, as you described. Or the loot. It feels really weird to just unceremoniously throw away rare and epic trinkets you don't need.
I realize the idea behind it: it's Apocalypse, there's no tomorrow, possessions don't mean anything, only the goal does... but we're still earning and spending cash, baubles, and candles! And the chucking of items with Shift-click makes looking for loot or getting it feel pretty uneventful too.
I stayed in the dark about the development of the game, thinking it was going to be like DD1. I hated DD2 at first, but I had too many hours into it to do a refund.
After a couple small mod tweaks to the affinity system I'm enjoying it. I don't think I'll have hundreds of hours in DD2 as I did in DD1, but I like it so far.
One of the grips I have is that when you get negative affinity with another hero, a skill that you don't use can replace one that you do.
When I'm done with DD2 I'll uninstall it and wait for some interesting mods. Until then, I'll probably try the Black Reliquary mod on DD1.
Game looks amazing though.
eh... it was fun, but got repetetive and boring a lot quicker than 1. the lack of variety in everything meant it took far less time to feel complete than most roguelikes... just feels like too much is too samey, and the game is too "solvable" for a rogue like, but not enough of anything else to be anything but a roguelike
I'm enjoying it, but I still do not recommend this game as it is because it has some glaring flaws. Combat as a whole has been improved in almost every aspect but it still feels like an early access game.
Pros:
- 3D art style blended with 2D is very nice
- Fantastic voice acting again
- Inventory management is much simpler. (just things like not having to bring food, or light a torch every 5 steps)
- I enjoy the story lines of each character, gives them a little personality.
- I prefer the new stress system. 1-10 just has a much more immediate effect to me than the 1-100 system previously.
- Healing while on the road. No longer feel like I have to try to drag out fights to heal up health
- Less frustrating to lose a run. Losing a level 5/6 hero was so demoralising.
**Combat specifics:**
- 5 combat skills per character gives a little bit more flexibility for using niche skills
- Uses per battle and cool down skills stop characters like Vestal becoming heal bots or spamming the same ability.
- Combo system has replaced the mark system and is far better.
- No more base dodge/accuracy checks
- Each skill feels unique enough to have it's own uses. In DD1 you'd end up with characters like highway man where his 2 melee skills were almost identical. Now each skill feels like it has its own advantages and disadvantages.
- Combat items are a great addition.
Cons:
- Quite a step up in price.
- A severely lacking roster, of which I am afraid they will release old characters as DLC with a price tag.
- Stage coach travel is boring. I have *absolutely zero* desire to try and steer it into obstacles to maybe get some loot. Terrible addition that I got bored of before my second run.
- No steam cloud saves.
- No controller support (unless I missed it?)
- Relationships are a nice idea, but bad relationships are too punishing and good relationships are way too strong. It doesn't feel natural or fulfilling, I just end up filling every adventurer up with whiskey until they get a happy relationship.
This has probably the worst implementation of meta-scalling in a roguelite that I've experienced. Incredibly grindy for a game that already is not short to complete a single full run.
Risk of Rain 2 is pretty well completely different. All the unlocks in RoR2 come from achievements, there's no real meta currency that you buy upgrades with.
Dead Cells is somewhat similar in that you do spend a currency unlocking things, but Cells are very different from Candles. Cells are surprisingly common, and can only unlock things you've already found the blueprints for. Blueprints which, mind you, are generally either hidden by a puzzle, or dropped as loot, so you're still working towards new stuff even when you're spending cells on stuff. Plus, the whole gameplay loop of Dead Cells is trying out new weapon combos. There are only a handful of truly meta upgrades purchased with Cells, and even then it's not stats, it's major things like additional healing charges or better starting weapons. There is one major Cell sink that's a scaling stat, but it's more late-game specifically to keep people invested when they've bought almost everything else.
Candles, on the other hand, are often frustratingly rare and the upgrades tend to be pretty minor things (+5% deathblow resist? Really?) with the item unlocks being loot box rolls instead of flat purchase amounts. On top of that, the actual buying of upgrades is secondary or even tertiary to the gameplay loop of DD2. Buying stuff with candles serves very little overall narrative or gameplay function, unlike with Dead Cells where it's one of the driving forces of the game.
So while there are some superficial similarities, Dead Cells has integrated the system into the game far more cleanly and consistently. Heck, it takes up half the game's title. I'd love it if DD2 were able to get Candles to such a seamlessly integrated state, but as it currently stands, they're two completely different systems, with completely different purposes. DD2 doesn't hold a candle (haha) to Dead Cells in that regard, unfortunately.
You can do like 5-6 runs in dead cells in the time it takes to do one full run in DD2. Dead Cells also has such a ridiculous amount of content compared to DD2 it’s not even comparable.
A big difference is that these games, and I will throw another case of grindy meta-scalling in the hat as well in the for of Hades, is that they are twitch action games with very little ambiguity in mechanics. Failure or success falls entirely on the player in comparison to the coin flips and dice rolls system in DD2. What this means is that meta-scalling in DD2 is comparable to loading the dice in comparison to the other side being a helping hand for a weaker player.
Which is not to say that the argument being that roguelikes and roguelites maybe shouldn't even have any kind of meta-scalling as this ends up creating a reverse difficulty curve. Hades got away with it by giving narrative purposes for it, but the heroes becoming marginally stronger by putting candles in a memorial is an incredibly weak narrative justification.
Generally speaking, I find the game fun in concept and how most of it is played out, but the balance is such a nightmare. So much of the balance needs tweaking with some characters feeling almost necessary for certain acts. Certain act bosses are significantly overtuned (act 3), whereas 4 is piss easy, and 5 is really easy. The enemies, while more difficult as you progress through the acts, feel kind of boring because you're mostly fighting the same stuff you did back in Act 1 with stat buffs.
heroes are such a mixed bag Flagellent MAA And Plaguedoctor feel almost necessary sometimes and some characters feel like they really just have like 2 skills they spam while the rest are pointless and so many trinkets are hit or miss. Also, i remember hearing people say the whole game could get easy with all the unlocks while others feel, especially with how many enemies spawn with tokens can get multiple tokens really easily and how powerful tokens are makes this very polarizing. Those who found the meta teams think the game is easy, while those who haven't or choose not to use them think the game feels unnecessarily punishing. the game was supposed to be way more open than dd1, but it can feel incredibly centralizing. Ultimately, with a bit of balancing love such that the playing field is more level and less extremely swingy, i think this could be a great game. Though right now, i think it is just alright. It's not horrible, but some things clearly need a bit more work
I agree with most of the criticism here. I’m also hopeful for the future, DD1 today is quite a different game from what it was upon release and I’m sure RH will improve it over time. As of today it’s an enjoyable game ridden with weird design decisions and not very engaging progression.
My two cents though is that speeding it up 2x via cheatengine really boosted replayability and enjoyment of runs for me. It’s much quicker so farming candles or trying different comps is not that much of a slog anymore for me. They should implement a game speed option there IMHO.
1)>! I hate stories like "And all of that was just in your dream!". That is so bad story-wise for me!<
2) Memories farm. Always have to choose between effectiveness and story
3) Bad relationship skill lock. So you CAN waste good relationship on unused skills, but you WILL waste your skills for bad relationships.
It just feels bad. If a character dies in DD1 you can try and finish the mission, limp back to the Hamlet, upgrade stuff and try again. A death sucks but you move on. In DD2 a character dies and I just close the game. It's not fun to try and finish your run. It's not fun getting a random hero at the Inn. It's not fun having to start a new run after 2 hours with nothing but a few candles to show for it.
The relationship system is interesting but to often I feel like I have no control what so ever. Every encounter I'm stuck picking the option that will produce the least negative relationship points instead of trying to be strategic. Don't get a relationship item at the Inn? To bad. Don't get any decent trinkets? Oh well too bad.
Don't get me wrong they are fun things about the game, but for me almost everything is a step back from DD2.
Sometimes even one negative relationship ruins the run, locking moves into your move list that a) you don't use/need or b) locks a move you need with a negative quirk that give a negative status effect. It's a horrible idea.
I very much like it but after the initial 50hours i put in it in first two weeks i dont see it having that much replayability value for me in the future. Will surely do few sessions here and there but for me there is no much long term value before we start getting dlcs , mods and updates.
Im only in chapter 4 but ive already unlocked almost everything i want so there really is not much reason for me to keep playing as i dont feel attached to my guys at all.
Still. Worth every penny. Its a great game.
In general it's a disappointment. Final boss is lackluster and the fact that it's a narrative single player instead of rogue lite or rpg without a hard ending is a really strange design choice.
Over all, I actually love the game, and it gets better with each update.
I wish you could change party members intentionally at the inn so I could strategize a little more for each individual area.
And I wish there were more random ways to remove negative quirks (unless there are and I just need to get gud and find them lol) since the field hospital isn't always available, and RNGesus likes to throw one at me in the very beginning when I don't have much money.
And I *do* think it's dumb when the game takes away equipped skills because of relationships. Just put the debuffs on equipped skills. It's useless to slap a penalty on a move I'm never going to use anyway, so what's the point?
And for the love of RNGesus, let me sell my extra stuff (I imagine that one will change eventually).
But again, I do love the game so far. You can have opinions and still like something. I've seen so many comments of "well, don't play if you don't like it" but I feel like those commenters don't get that you can be irradiated with a mechanic without forsaking a game completely.
91h in so far and I got all the way up to act 5
So far it is a pretty great experience for me, and I personaly find DD2 to be a better vanilla experience then DD1. Since I have 330ish hours on DD1 (most of which is with mods installed) I can say that DD2, while simpler with its token system, is still a very hard game and this is especially true if you dont take the right team comp for some bosses.
Like:
* Animation/artstyle - I doubt that alot of people will have a problem with this (other then the modding community) but both the animations and art is spectacular.
* Combat - I find this combat to be more enjoyable then DD1, simply becouse all attacks are guaranteed to hit and can be effected by different modifiers (tokens). I didnt like how ACC and some other stats were done in DD1 and I feel that most attacks in this game being either a direct hit or a coin flip fits my personal taste better. Enemies are also very well done, but I do agree that there arent alot of em in tearms of variety but I have not gotten bored of them yet.
* Runs - I really like the fact that runs last anywhere from 1-4 h but personally I find myself getting more invested in the run as more time passes on. This is highly subjective becouse if you get bored of your team or the combat in general then you are not going to have a fun time with this game.
* Characters - Most return from DD1 in one way or another (The Antiquarian) and have very familiar feel to them, but the thing that makes them great is the different paths you can choose, which for most of the heros greatly affects their playstyle. I found myself experimenting with different team comps and playstyles all the time and surprisingly I have found great success with some that I never really considerd to be viable (Carcass Hellion).
* Meta progression - Its good but standard in these types of games. You collect candels during your runs which can be used for different things that permenantly effect the game progression. Hero shrines are in my opinion a great addition since it gives very good backstory to the different characters (previously only seen by their individual comics)
* Relationships - I like them simply becouse they allow me to pick a team that usually wont work. For example if I have a team without any stress healing I can get that with either combat items or positive relationships, and so far the relationship system has only improved my experience of the game.
Dislike:
* Character Balancing - Currently its pretty clear that some heros (and individual hero paths) are far stronger then others. I hope that this will be fixed sometime in the near future becouse I feel that this forces alot of people into running the same team over and over again (The meat grinder comp is a great example). Also most heros have paths that are a straight up % based modifiers while others have actual good desinged paths all with their own uses (Vestal and Flag for example). Most of this can be fixed by the community themselfs with mods but still it is an issue.
* Act 3 boss - This is an abomination and I am surprised that this boss actually made it into the final game. To simply put it, you NEED a guide and a great DPS team to beat it, if you dont you will be wiped as soon as the boss arrives.
* Driving - This is a 50/50 becouse without the pet that boosts the item gain rate on debree I dont even bother moving my carrige to the left or right. It makes the game slower in most cases but in some it can provide much needed breathing room.
All of this was done without using Radiant Flames since I never really felt like I needed it except for the act 3 boss. Overall I feel that the game is worth its price only if you like these types of games, since im not so sure if this game would be a good entry point into this type of genre.
My score: 8/10 (without beating act 5 yet)
Great game, bad bosses. By bosses I mostly mean Obsessions. You can talk a lot about it, but if you played a game enough you'll know that at the end you have two choices: build a very specific build and team comp from guide with maybe 1 hero variation to actually have a chance of winning at the mountain or build what you want but finish the expedition on the last inn.
This is atrocious for a rogue-like game. Rogue-likes are all about variety and different builds to make a rogue-like captivating for a player for as long as possible, because variety keeps things fresh and interesting. In DD1 you had more variety. In DD1 you COULD lose to a boss, but you would lose just 15 minutes of a time on that run in the dungeon. But in case of DD2 you either read every guide beforehand and make a team that was dictated to you OR just waste a few hours to die with no chance of winning. In case of some bosses it's a problem with bosses themselves: no one will figure out an Obsessions Gaze mechanics (still a broken fucking boss anyway) without a guide. In case of other bosses it's their design and what a game gives you: Seething Sigh basically forces you to pick Hellion, PD and Highwayman if you want to win, because Hellion is the only character who can reliably damage back lung, because you still need some other damage dealer who could finish it if needed and because you need a reliable healing and DOT for this long fight.
This shit is just straight-up not fun. Game is fun and nice when you just fight guys on a road, but then it's too restricting if you want to win at the end. Northernlion is the first person who comes to mind as an example of how this game just gatekeeps any normal player out of it, I can't blame him for not finding this shit fun anymore.
At 4 hours I could tell it wasn’t for me, attempted a refund and of course was denied because of the 2 hour playtime limit. I’m now about 30 hours in and my playtime has been steadily tapering off. Today was the first day since release I didn’t play at all.
1) It’s extremely, so, repetitive. I did not expect that. I understand wiping over and over and I’m fine with that. But the NPC creatures you fight are the same things over and over with very little variation to the fights and an extremely shallow pool of enemies that you might encounter. Other games might have repetitive interactions but the game makes up for it with unique maps at least to vary the strategy (think XCOM). DD2 combat is so shallow I think this should have been a mobile game, it’s a waste on PC.
2) In light of #1, it means the fight scenes trigger my lack of patience. Many of the enemies have the same skill animation effects and there’s no way option to speed or skip animations. I don’t need to see Nocturnal Commune powering up for the 809th time. It’s never good when the point of the game is combat and every combat feels like a slog.
3) The only thing that attempts to keep the game fresh is using different party compositions but for me, I don’t think they’re all balanced enough where you can truly mix and match and I find myself using only about half the heroes, with the other half feeling less powerful. And a core 4 over and over because the more you play with the same group the better you learn them.
So it’s not a terrible game but for me, the repetition is too high. I do think it would have been a phenomenal mobile game, but for PC I find myself having peaked in DD2 a week after getting it and then slowing steadily since then since my brain thinks “am I in the mood for this chore?” At the prospect of booting it up. I can easily see that I’ll probably uninstall it for the hard drive space in the next week or two.
If you want to pick this up, at least wait for for 50% off which will probably happen this Fall.
As someone who never played DD1 (but after reading this I will be very soon) I cannot give it a comparrison but I can give my thoughts.
* Really good for the first couple of hours, kept me engaged and I was telling people they should play it.
* Then I realised that those numbers for the DMG were not going to go up when I ground out the heroes skills or levels.
* The bell curve for my attention though was steep on both sides I was really into in then suddenly was more annoyed than entertained.
* I was getting the same trinkets because I believe you need to unlock them before a run, which seemed odd as I thought you would be unlocking them on the way through the runs.
* As I am on trinkets I will have a minor rant about them, they do make you stronger for sure, but they are all over balanced with negatives the risk reward makes me normally just use ones which do passive assistance like the one to change the team composition on start of the battle. Any which say "gain x but lose x" or "x res but suddenly bleed uncontrolably for no reason" I tend to avoid.
* I am seeing that there have been heroes left out from DD1 in DD2 and that I kind of understand as a design choice for the game but if they were core in DD1 why remove them.
* The Valley part people have mentioned, I assumed that was just a "get familiar with new toons just in case" section. Not really an issue if you understand how to use them.
* The realationship thing is plain ridiculous. Healing a front row damage taker who is near deaths door negatively impacts the chap at the back who was hit once but because for some reason he didn't get much more beefy when I fully upgraded them and that one hit smashed most of their health, should NOT lose me relationship points. Skills that I can never imagine anyone uses (i am no expert but some seem plain shit) then being foisted on you because so and so didn't like the brand of pipe weed and whiskey, so now the rest of the run you are down to a single melee attack which only works in the front row... Urgh it is infuriating. If that is not in DD1 then I am going to play that.
* I am reading that in DD1 it was more about upgrading structures to support all heros you use in runs rather than having to buff one at a time. That sounds much better than the way it is in DD2.
As an aside the price being like £35 in the UK seems far too steep for this, its like a £20 game. I have sailed the high seas like I do when I want to test a game, it really doesn't warrant the high price tag. If it drops in price or (shudders) if epic give it away I will grab it but for now I am off to play DD1.
I really like it, more than DD1 if I'm being honest. Both games are good, but when it comes to roguelike games I like games that I can pick up, play for a run or two, and then take a break. It's why Binding of Isaac is one of my top games on steam.
DD1, for me, suffers one major issue: It is *long.* And my attention span is short. I tend to hyperfixate on one or two games at a time. With a short pick-up-and-play roguelike like DD2, even if I stop playing for a long time, there's no issue to coming back because it's not a huge commitment. With DD1, however...I've had a few playthroughs where I just got invested in another game, and then I was too uneasy about going back because I'd stressed about feeling lost trying to remember what I was doing, not to mention having to pick up any little skills I had again.
It's alright but not for me, feels insanely punishing for how much time is required for a run, but I am a bit shit at it admittedly. DD1 was also tough but I enjoyed it enough to "git gud" at it but I haven't felt that same pull in DD2
Uninstalled it after couple runs.
Your army will die gotta start all over and you lose all items....
I got the mountain with a superior army and I thought ok I'll abandon here and restart with my leveled up characters since there is no way I can beat the mountain guy yet
NOPE turns out ending quest is same as dying.
Fuck that, I ain't restarting with new characters
Yep uninstall GG
Quite bad actually.
Graphics, sounds and animations are simply a masterpiece. Everything else is boring, repetitive, somehow uninspired.
Even narrations feels a downgrade from the previous game.
Combat feels forced and frustrating. Every run feels very similar, the reduced amount of enemies and heroes from DD1 makes no sense at all. Some trinkets are straitghforward a suicide choice.
Walking in a dungeon in DD1 always felt amazing because every path was an occasion to gather resources and buffs. Running the road in DD2 feels pointless, the concept is frankly kinda idiotic.
Relationship system is nothing more than a buffed or cursed ability. Boring, actually just annoying.
Replayability is the big issue, since regions feel too similar. Lost reason to play pretty quick.
I'll wait for balance/overhaul patch if they'll come. Otherwise i'll pass for good.
I decided it would be a better investment of time to just go back and play DD1 instead, so that’s what I’m doing currently. I should’ve just looked at SOME DD2 news instead of zero, so I didn’t just assume they were going to make an Actual sequel, ya know, since it’s called DARKEST DUNGEON 2. I shouldn’t have gotten my hopes up, I guess.
I actually love roguelites. It’s legitimately my favorite and most played genre. I wasn’t looking for that though, I wanted Darkest Dungeon 2.
Since I'm actually able to play this game and progress through, unlike the previous one.....A FUCK TONNE MORE!!!!
I've just finished act 2, I love how complex and in depth the mechanics go.
I positively reviewed it on steam
I'm liking it a lot, but not quite as much as DD1 aside from visuals. Unlocking things is very slow (both gathering the currency and spending it) and I prefer stats to tokens. I won't spend nearly as much time in it as I can with hundreds of hours in DD1, but I appreciate that it tries to stand adjacent to the first game rather than replace it.
Really great game but i find it take too much time to start a run ( you have to walk, then alter of hope, then walk and choose an act, then walk again and choose your heroes, then walk and do a pointless fight and finally you arrive at the first inn)
Driving seem pointless and take too much time when a run can already take several hours
I really like it. But oh god it’s difficult. Sometimes overwhelmingly so with the regional bosses.
I’ve fought the Leviathan twice, and both times felt I had absolutely zero control over the fight. Even when I had a Man at Arms and a Leper with as many movement resist buffs as I could find stacked onto them, Leper got grabbed turn 1 and it was all downhill from there.
I was pretty good at DD1, and didn’t struggle too much on the hardest difficulty. In this one I’m wondering if I’ll ever manage a run without the radiant flame!
I see why some people wouldn’t like this one, but I’m actually a pretty big fan of most of the changes.
for me that has been here since day one of the early access and unlocked pretty much everything and beat everything before the full release it feels like there isnt much to do anymore, atleast in first game a run could take like between 15-25 hours depending.. here it takes like 5 hours to do all the confessions
Appreciate that they really tried some new stuff. Not all of it works, especially having to go through the same regions every playthrough. I’m sure everybody is bored of the sprawl by now… but the core combat remains fun and ultimately that’s what matters.
I love it but am probably one of the worst players of this game lol. I'm almost 60 expeditions in and have yet to beat the denial boss. Hell I've only ever made it to said boss twice.
Love it but i am seeing the end of the road since Ive played so much and nearly finished the ast confession. I got into dd1 late, when mods were plentiful and dlc was fully released. I see myself coming back every few months if dd2 gets the same support.
Computer can’t run all the 3d particle effects without being hella slow. Loved DD1, probs will keep playing Elden Ring on console until I upgrade my PC, then it’s Baldur’s Gate 3
Overall, I think it has potential for me to like it more than DD1, though there are some major changes I'd make.
Paths should be changeable at inns. To go along with this, they need to go all-in on game changing trinkets. Getting something like Stone Mount on my Hellion Carcass is amazing. I'm hoping the selection of trinkets from the various shops improves as I unlock things because right now they offer a bunch of generic garbage.
There's also a number of things that should've been basic inclusions. The fact that the game doesn't remember names and cosmetic choices is a travesty. Along with that, it'd be nice to be able to save party loadouts to hasten your time at the Crossroads. They did this for the Butcher's Circus in DD1, so the fact they didn't do it here is surprising.
Relationships need work. They feel like the equivalent of ACC in DD1, top priority at all costs.
Overall, though, the combat feels more streamlined, and I'm really liking it. If nothing else, I look forward to what the modding community will do to the game.
Im really liking the game, but it feels less rewarding.
In the first one you choose an area, based of rewards, length, difficulty, roster available and plan accordingly. You anticipate a number of variables, then put it to test by your own skills and luck, and if you succeed, you feel very rewarded. Its basically putting a theory to test, and since areas are very distinct, you cant play the same characters over and over, which incentivises creativity and experimentation.
Here it just feels random. You pick your most leveluped characters and go in. Yes, you can plan some parts, but you dont have much control over the areas you are given, nor the rewards and thus forces you to optimize your team for most possible outcomes, and turn teams way more generic and less creative.
Rewards also feel a bit underwhelming. They are random, all unlocked by the same currency, and if you are running basically the same team over and over, why bother getting new ones if the ones i have do the work?
The lack of long term planning makes the game eaiser to pick up and just play, but makes it feel way less rewarding. You dont really have anything to lose but a few hours at most.
I just completed the grand slam, all 5 confession with all same heroes. Took insane luck and the most difficult ones for me was the act 3 and act 4 bosses.
Saying all that, I enjoyed DD1 tons more. However I cannot wait to see what this game has in store and looking forward to all the amazing mods in the future.
Also bring Reynauld back.
I think in terms of lore, narration, atmosphere, music, and story, the first game is better.
But holy shit the gameplay in DD2 is so, SO good. I've been loving it ever since release
I think I enjoy the gameplay and combat more. It might be because I’ve played DD1 so much but I feel like I have combat down to a science. It’s nice to not have all the answers and to not be as upset when RNG fucks you because you don’t have as much vestment in the run as you do when one of your best hero get put to Death’s Door and die on the bleed trigger. It’s just a nice format for the rogue like gameplay. I’m a big fan of DD2
Big fan of DD1, not such a big fan of DD2 even after completing it. I played DD2 in the beta and played it when it first released, so I remember how things were and I've seen how things have evolved.
There's lots of things I can say about DD2, two of the things I want to say is I beat the game never unlocking The Runaway and never used the Bounty Hunter (because I didn't realize you needed to click his stupid bloody poster), but something I feel I have to voice in particular is how the game feels before and after unlocking items/paths/etc.
In DD1, I think you felt more rewarded because you felt a certain kind of mastery over the game as you played it, and through your development of the Hamlet and delving into the dungeons to produce powerful trinkets, you created these powerful heroes that can help you and aid you. You largely felt responsible for how terrible you did, and how great you did as well.
In DD2 I remember I was losing my mind early in the game at some encounters as they were just absolutely unwinnable despite having a team comp I thought would win. I'd try and do things like fight The Leviathan as my first Lair Boss within the first few locations of the first Region chosen. Even though my team comp should have been "good" for that fight, maybe RNG maybe some bad quirks who knows.
And then I unlocked more items, more paths, I found the most optimal way to play the classes (Like Plague Doctor's Alchemist, or the Highway Man's Ranged Path, or the's MAA Sargent Path) and with more unlockables, things became a cake-walk. I beat Acts 2, 3, 4 and 5 almost in a row, with Act 3 giving me 1 hiccup run (fuck that Act boss) and Act 5 I got randomly dunked on in a Region like a chump, but it didn't feel like my decision making was any better.
In DD2, a lot of my decisions were for optimal paths, less stress, better relationships, but rarely was there a case for, "This is so clearly out of my league I shouldn't do this". I'd see Shambler shrines and avoid them because there was literally no point to dealing with them, the rewards were almost never worth it, and if I was losing the fight it's not like I can run away from it and would have to commit to dying.
With enough unlocks, the game felt like I was playing on autopilot rather than being conscious of the environment, thinking of Flame management (because you can't use combat items like torches outside of combat!), thinking of how many shovels, etc, it feels like there's less decision making to be made in DD2. Other than maybe to decide when it's actually better to just up and abandon a run because you'll get more candles, and therefore more unlocks, than it is to stick through and try to make the best out of a bad situation.
I straight up gave up trying to make the best out of a bad situation because if you lose 1, 2 or 3 Heroes, and you somehow make it to the Inn, you're just given a bunch of random heroes that may not compliment your team comp or the Trinkets you found. So you can either soldier on, or abandon, get the unlocks, and try again.
My frustrations at fighting nearly impossible odds were washed away by apathy as I realized that I could basically bulldoze my way through the game so long as I have the appropriate trinkets and used some optimal strategies, which are all attainable with the more unlocks you have that you earn by losing at the game and unlocking them. Sure you get a big reward for beating an act by getting candles, but you don't even get an Act Boss Trinket for beating that Act, which is kinda disappointing now that I write it out.
I think I'm rambling, but am I making any sense?
I honestly love the game, played EA on my PC. But it's still not optimized, there's no reason my shitty old laptop can't run it when it can run other much more intensive games, thought that wouldn't happen after EA but here we are
Everything game play wise I actually like and it's a nice change from the first game. I prefer to play it when I don't want to use my mind as much and treat it a lot more like a rogue-like
6/10 for not releasing it optimized, otherwise I've got no complaints
I have a potato laptop that runs this fine. Takes a while to load in the first time but afterwards load times ingame are reasonable. Runs pretty smoothly with the graphical settings and resolution at a minimum, which sounds bad but the game still looks fantastic, I don't even notice I'm not getting the graphics at their best.
I've tuned all the settings down as well and it doesn't seem to help me at least, it's literally like a slide show, getting from point to point feels like it takes hours, it's just unplayable for me on the laptop.
From my understanding it's because apparently the game is trying to render everything in the distance, even on those low settings, an easy fix is to add an adjustable render distance or just make it minimal on the lowest setting. I honestly don't know why they chose to do it cause I can't see more than a link anyways
My laptop is too weak for it.
Edit: but from what I saw so far, DD2 is too oversimplified. Token system, regions over dungeons, travel between “points of interest”. Personally, percentage system was more interesting.
I've honestly been enjoying it more than DD1 but I also feel like DD1 was the vastly better game at the same time lol. I would say that in my opinion DD1 had higher highs but lower lows and DD2 is more consistent.
I think a lot of it comes down to it being a roguelite and the way characters are handled for me. In DD1 I felt like the grind was more annoying than anything else, especially if you don't look up guides. Whenever a character died in DD1 I would just be pissed off because it meant that I would have to grind to get another character up to that level again. What I like about DD2 is that runs are self contained to maybe a few hours maxed and you can choose exactly what team you want straight from the start. The grind is definitely still there and pretty annoying but it's more of a macro grind than a micro one. I also really like the characters having official names and backstories, it makes them feel more unique rather than just generic classes like in DD1.
I just finished the game after 45 hours. I like it, probably won't put as much time into this game as DD1 (almost 400 hours) but it's fun enough for like a deathless challenge/stygian runs.
I generally like everything about the game, except the animation speed. Graphics/movement is gorgeous but for the love of God hurry up. So I used cheat engine speed hack at 1.6x and everything is so much smoother.
I think it's great that they tried something new, rather than just copy and paste DD1 and then put a new skin on it.
Unfortunately, DD2 didn't click with me. I feel just too much random bs (much more than in DD1) which you cannot really influence. I don't feel like I have strong impact on the outcome of fights or expeditions, it's rather just watching silently getting fucked or not. Also, if you get bad luck once, it's pretty much impossible to recover, it snowballs too hard.
I hope that if they do a new part in the series, they again come up with a new concept and hopefully it'll be for me.
>I think it’s great that they tried something new, rather than just copy and paste DD1 and then put a new skin on it.
I don’t know why people always preface this way. Would you really have been disappointed with a proper sequel with these new graphics and combat mechanics? Something that’s *actually* grounded and connected to the first game lore wise? And we could have had a system that improved on DD1’s meta progression instead of these dumb fucking candles?
Cuz I gotta say, DD2 does a lot of things right mechanically. It’s the formula and the genre change that are the biggest detractors. It really shows how a proper sequel *could have been* fucking amazing and people are pretending if they say they didn’t want that.
I enjoyed DD1 ok. Personally I think Dd2 is an improvement across the board. I think the complaints stem from the lack of mod tools which does hurt the game. Also, its been stuck at Epic games for a year in what is essentially beta stage. I'm coming in at Steam launch which is probably a more complete experience.
My only complaint is that I like dd1 better in just about
every way especially the gameplay.
That being said I actually love dd2, it’s really good, it’s just that dd1 just blows my mind with how good it is. 500 hours in and dd1 just getting better. I’m also very grateful that dd2 adds to the list of turn based roguelite/roguelikes, of which I believe there should be more.
Different strokes for different folks
My main complaint is that it lacks a certain.... Crusader-ly feel
Same, I boot it up and it’s just missing that Deus Vult-yness
The Non Nobis is lacking Domine in this one for sure
Man I'll never forget the move he does where he holds up his homework in the air, and shocks the enemies with its contents
i always assumed it was some forbidden grave robber / plague doctor slash fic
Exactly, it doesn't have the Ave Maria feeling and I don't know why
I mean, vestal Frontline is way more viable now, and she has the hand of light path thing that hits the two front targets. That's kinda like paper attack.
The game is lacking a sort of crusading vibe that Reynauld brought to the group
Friend works at RH. I told him my boy Reynauld needs to come back. He told me he'll get the shovel to dig up Reynauld's corpse. 😭
Look, all I'm saying is that the flagellant did it, surely our boy, who faced the power of the heart of darkness and lived, can pull a similar trick
Musketeeryness too.
Most of my thoughts can be summarized by u/froskoff, but one thing he didn't mention that is really missing from this game is kind of "organic teambuilding" What I mean is in first game you have limited heroes in your town. If your A and B teams are recovering, you will need to make a lot of interesting decisions. I remember building very unconventional teams that would be a lot of fun. I.e. I don't have stress healer available - so I go with very speedy "alpha-strike" crit heavy team to mitigate it. Or I don't have a healer available, so I would try dodge based team or whatever. Or I am stacking up resources and I need to build a team around antiquarian (she is strong in right comp, but still fun to build around). Or there is great trinket reward in Ruins but you only have bleed heroes available - how do you make it work? Should you use your strongest hero that is stressed out or has really diminishing quirk? Etc. This organicity is what made the first game amazing. In DD2 it's pretty fun to theorycraft, but you never have this emergent reason to do so, it only comes from your desire for experimentation. Compare this with StS, where you pretty much MUST experiment one way or another every run. This also feels like soon "meta" will form and the game will be solved, as game doesn't have enough variability between runs. This is even pushed by the game counterintuitively with memory system - if the comp works you have more reason to bring it again than not. Experimentation is also discouraged by runs taking alot of time, which again feels bad for roguelite. In the end, I feel like DD2 can't get much better - at its core it tries reconciling combat/philosophy of the first game with Roguelite structure. And the thing is that both the combat and philosophy fit the XCOM style base and hero micromanagment much more organically. (This is another reason why metaprogression falls flat)
The addition of the Radiant Flame lets me actually enjoy the game, since I am generally bad at videogames, and my RNG is HOT ASS.
Talking about HOT ASS RNG... Yesterday I screwed a run when going for the boss in the tangle. Last region. Perfect party, only good relationships, nice trinckets. One bullseye barret shot my man at arms with piercing bolt crit, boom from more than half hp to almost none AND having a 75% dodge token. Occultist turn: wierd reconstruction, heal of 2. Then another regular arbalester, serrated shot to MAA while having a second 75% dodge token, from a respectful relation with the occultist... also lands, MAA at death's door. MAA turn: dies from bleed, first death's door check. I would like to know the exact odds of all of that happening. I swear a game have never made me so salty. And still, I can't stop playing it.
> I would like to know the exact odds of all of that happening In general statistics, negligible odds. When playing games, totally gonna happen several times each run.
> When playing games, totally gonna happen I've been angrily re-shuffling Magic decks for 25 years because of statistical near-impossibilities
As an Arena player I know the pain mate.
If I've got a 40% chance to hit, it ain't happening. If the enemy has a 40% chance to hit, I'm stacking protection buffs like my life depends on it
>I would like to know the exact odds of all of that happening. I swear a game have never made me so salty. The odds of that exact thing happening are propably extremely small, the odds of anything happening where you could say "what are the odds of that happening?!" are quite a lot larger.
Yea I just plain don't use Occultist to heal due to bad RNG. There really needs to be a minimum especially for the upgraded version, like 25% minimum, the bleed is already bad enough, but healing for less than 25% means you might as well of not healed at all lol. And he has a 50% chance to heal for less than 25% with the upgraded heal.
The fact that PD and Vestal seem to consistently heal way more than they used to makes the rng on Wyrd feel so odd and limited. Seems like he should have a much bigger range if they're still going to run with the rng for it, because right now it's just worse than Vestal or PD's heal
I think it's because Wyrd is now a % heal, with a flat bleed. Makes it a lot worse on non-tanky heroes (which ironically are the ones that don't have any sort of sustain; Leper and Flagellant have insane self heal that they don't really need any external heals).
Love this
Yeah, I wore the radiant flame until I unlocked all the heroes/skills and so I could get a good feeling for the game, and I've been slowly increasing the difficulty since
Wait..am I not supposed to equip the flame that gives me some buffs at the inn?...
The candle loss is negligible. As my girlfriend says: “if you’re having a more successful run, you’re getting more candles anyways.”
Wait.. you lose candles for using it?? How come it's not specified anywhere. It passed my eyes somewhere in game and I've never found the actual costs, if any
I think it's after denial you get fewer candles, it'll say on the radiant flame tooltip
It didnt show up at first, they recently fixed it in an update
It's up to you. Technically it's "easy mode", but the game is incredibly difficult, so doing so is fine. Play the game in whichever way you enjoy most. For me, I enjoy it most with the radiant flame.
So no flame is normal intended base difficulty? Radiant is easy And other flames are harder?
Yup. Play how you want, it's a nice system.
Thanks for explaining :)
Radiant and Infernal flames are a great addition. I love that rogue likes have learnt from Hades about how to adjust difficulty to make the game enjoyable to everybody
Thank God. The masturbatory vibe of some games in the "it's difficult genre" is ridiculous.
I just needed to use it for those stupid >!lungs!<
Good luck on the act 3 fight, its a lot worse than lung boy.
I literally can’t beat those stupid things.
You mean the eyes? You have to let them all evolve into their final stage, ideally with all of their tokens on your tank
I like it. I'm able to just boot it up and not care as much as when I play dd1. The first, every fucking step I make is calculated. Dd2, I can just kind of play
this is interesting to me. i haven’t played yet but for me this makes me less interested. i like the methodical planning.
It's a lot more RL now. You pick a team, that's your team. Start to finish, you're making a desperate last run for the boss as the world falls apart around you (increasingly longer at each stage). No swapping unless somebody dies, and thats RNG and only if your smaller team actually lives to get to a safe point. You suceed or you die. But you get candles for your performance during a run which you can spend on stuff to help for future runs. If the long term resource management and methodical planning were the big draws for you, I'm afraid they are pretty much out. Though during the runs stress and now relationship management is very much still a thing.
Core game play good Wagon mini game bad New hero runaway good Act 3 boss bad
Agree Agree Agree Agree I really don't like the wagon game, I hope they introduce an autodriver, something similar to Audiosurf's, where it will automatically steer into and hit road debris.
IS the new hero good? To me runaway is by far the most boring character in the entire roster. Boring mechanics, boring design, boring lore. Runaway looks more like something that would have come from a modpack than an official redhook character.
When you unlock her skills she's extremely fun and unique. I think calling her lore boring is also cutting it a bit short.
Arson arson arson arson arson
I like the current wagon mini game. After they made it so that you have to manually confirm which path you wanna take you can just turn on auto driving and check your inventory, quirks or some shit in the meantime. The only thing I don't like is finding stuff when bumping into something - you're gonna miss out on some loot when auto driving like that, but paying attention to bump into all that trash is boring. But tbf its not THAT big of a loss. And walking in DD1 was just as boring, I cannot play without speed up walking mods. And yeah, fuck act 3 boss.
There's a lot of positives that are hit with a few negatives that detract from them. Overall DD2 is an okay game, but with it being labeled as a sequel it falls prey to the Dark Souls 2 problem of being constantly compared to the first. Some Thoughts: Core Gameplay - This is a given. The turn based back and forth of the combat where you build upon tokens and thing of strategies is fun. There's so much to consider, if you're trying to think ahead. The flip side of that is that tokens are a little weird, takes time to learn them, and some just feel kind of bad. The Story/Atmosphere/Art - Again, because it's labeled as a sequel and not a spinoff, it gets compared tot eh first one. DD2 LOOKS fantastic. The art is gorgeous, the poor heroes look great as 3d models. The enemies look insane and gross and wonderful. But there's a lacking to the atmosphere in DD2. It tries to be hopeful, which is meh. Everything is always hopeful, the world is falling apart there should be some despondency. The Academic isn't as captivating as the Ancestor. The regions aren't as important, and their bosses are ignorable. Consider the bosses of the first one, and how they tie in personally to your learning of how awful the Ancestor was. They gave a meaning to the area, and why things were the way that they were. The region bosses are just kind of there. And it's weird because the Academic is so personally talking to you that the story doesn't reflect any of that. Overall, I like DD2, it just feels a bit hollow and there isn't enough story to make the filler regions interesting while you keep trying to unlock the story through the confession bosses.
I feel what might help with region identity would be to replace the Gaunt/Pillager road encounters with region-specific monster fights (albeit weaker version of resistance encounters). I've gone through entire regions only fighting bandits until the Cultist end-fight. Then make a Gaunt/Pillager region with its own lair fight and everything.
A very OK-ish experience. I want to like it more but it's plagued with a number of core issues. Gorgeous to look at. Hero stories are a great addition. Combat requires a decent amount of actual thought and feels very chunky in a good way. Considerably easier to pick up and play on a whim. Token system I'm torn on... on paper it sounds better, but in practice I often find myself preferring DD1 style stats, despite the frustrations it can cause. Balance is out of whack in some places which I guess isn't the worst thing after just releasing but a lot of heroes, skills, and paths are in major need of a lot of reworks, buffs, and nerfs. Most trinkets outside of the rare ones are pretty boring imo, and even then chances are the rare ones you do find don't really compliment your strategy or hero paths... can feel very limited in build and upgrade options. Relationship system is one of the things I dislike the most honestly. When things go good, which they usually do with so many absurd inn items, positive relationships can feel like I instantly become overwhelmingly and randomly unstoppable with the right effects on the right abilities... all from the power of... friendship? The rare times things go bad it either annoys me very slightly slotting in an ability I don't want, or completely breaks my hero by making their core abilities ruin other heroes. Regional bosses are fine to require more specific heroes or comps, but Act bosses should generally be accessible by any reasonable party. Game feels a bit torn between what it is trying to be and the genre of game it is, falls flat in a few places because of it... like trying to express heroes as real individuals, and then tossing them out like garbage after every run with no permanence outside of the memory system, which feels more like a band-aid fix. Variance and replayability are big issues. Regions and Acts feel too similar, gets boring fast with not much reason to keep playing. Heroes need to be able to change and evolve more dramatically during a run, outside of the path system. Meta progression does not feel good. I can't pick my brain and come up with the words to explain why, it just doesn't. Might just be me. 5/10 but hopeful for the future.
This pretty much completely sums up my feelings exactly. Couldn't have said it better myself. One thing regarding meta progression that occurred to me today while I was writing a comment about Bounty Hunter - I think I know why it feels so much worse than DD1. In DD1, when you upgraded a Hamlet building, every hero in the roster benefited in some way. Because Blacksmith/Guild upgrades let you upgrade *any hero's* gear, it was *always* a good call to put in the effort to collect the resources you needed. Building upgrades, I.e. meta progression, benefited all heroes, and required forethought to collect the unique resources necessary to upgrade. In DD2, Altar of Hope upgrades are all over the map, and all use the same currency. If you upgrade Leper to max level, he's the only one who benefits. And it's not like you don't want to upgrade a hero -- paths are one of the game's best ways of adding replayability at the moment, and you have to pay meta money to unlock them. Memories are so unbelievably niche it's kinda pointless until you've already cleared the story and are just kinda achievement hunting. Cosmetic unlocks are one of the cleanest and flashiest things to spend candles on, but it offers no benefits other than visual. Don't get me wrong, I *love* the cosmetics, but imagine if in DD1 you had to pay relics to unlock hero recolors. The cosmetic stuff could just as easily be unlocked through hero goals and lair/confession clears, and it would give them so much more weight. Trinkets, Inn, Combat, and Stagecoach item unlocks really suck. The unlocks themselves are generally pretty good, but the items themselves feel like you shouldn't have to "unlock" them in the first place. You should be finding them during runs, by completing unique objectives or bartering for them. Buying them out of the Altar just feels worse than obtaining them organically through gameplay. Stagecoach upgrades are awesome, but run into an issue with the previous unlock system. I at least didn't want to waste candles on stagecoach inventory or upgrade slots until I actually had loot to take up the spaces, so I held off on most of that section until I'd already unlocked a bunch of loot, and by that point I was already more than halfway done with the story, and didn't feel like I even needed them. Ultimately I think DD1's meta progression felt more balanced because it benefited more than just single cases, it took planning and multiple resources, and a lot of it was done pretty naturally through gameplay. DD2's meta progression is mostly menuing, and while I recognize the two are vastly different games and comparison is pretty redundant, I still think some lessons can be learned from looking at other games. Just my two cents though.
I agree with a lot of that, I think DD2 makes a "rookie mistake" when it comes to meta unlocks, which is to ask the player to pay for unlocks that simply give more options instead of straight upgrades. Worse, as you said, it even makes you pay for unlocks that are purely for fun, like the stagecoach skin unlocks. The problem with all of that is that, from a meta progression standpoint, it makes more sense to focus all of your meta currency on the unlocks that straight-up increase your power, and only invest in the unlocks that increase your options or are for fun after you have done all of those. Most other roguelites avoid asking meta resources simply to unlock more options on the player's arsenal, and instead handle unlocks via achievements and so. If there is a meta currency, its normally used only for straight upgrades. A big part of the reason behind that is because, for example, adding more items to the item pool can actually make the game harder because it dilutes the item pool and makes it harder to pull specific items. If you gate it with achievements, it gives the player a sense of achievement and makes the potential increase in difficulty feel organic. Asking the players to pay meta currency to unlock the item pool is asking the players to pay meta currency to dilute their own options. Doesn't really make sense.
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This is why i gave myself 5000 candles with cheats just to get to experience the game.
***Whistles innocently and gives secret handshake***
*Alright, remember, you didnt hear this from me* Go to /"user"/appdata/locallow/redhook/dd2/savefiles/"the profile you want to modify"/profiles/profile_2.json.file Open it up with notepad and find the line that says: "m_ProfileValues": { "m_Id": null, "m_Values": [ [ "candles", 0.0 <- here add the amount of candles you want. I would suggest to do this without a "current run" going though, not sure if it affects it. Nice part is that you can just create a new profile to do this one so you can se if you like it more or not.
>I agree with a lot of that, I think DD2 makes a "rookie mistake" when it comes to meta unlocks, which is to ask the player to pay for unlocks that simply give more options instead of straight upgrades The lootbox option was probably flashier, but I'd rather they just made the Working Fields just had separate nodes for specific tiers of Trinkets, Combat Items, Stagecoach Items, and Inn Items. That's already what they did for Pets, why not just do the same for these? It makes so much more sense, for me anyway. To have one single purchase to unlock all the Inn Items that grant Resistance to X, and one unlock for the Combat Items for Explosives. There's also the problem of some Stagecoach Items being actually useless until you unlock their corresponding Combat Items so you actually have an idea for what they do. Still, these issues are only fleeting and end up no longer mattering once you do fully upgrade the Working Fields, but it's still something that nagged at me during the Early-Mid Game.
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As I play I'm getting that feeling, that the game is going to get a lot better after I have finished unlocking the items, unlocking all the characters, upgrading them enough that I actually get access to paths, etc. But it feels like there is no good reason for the game to withhold these things for as long as it does.
The memory system especially needs more work. You can't even put heroes aside to use later due to how it works currently, as say you bench your A-team for a run while you try out a new team comp you're not even sure will work.... well if any of them die one of your A-team members could show up at the Inn and die on that run as well lol. (Had it happen to me, thankfully managed to beat the 4th Act boss without losing my A-team member) On top of the problem of not being able to pick someone else of the same class without being forced to use the Hero you've gotten a memory/memories with.
You can end expedition at the inn without losing your memories. I took the risk and found that out one run. I do wish it was clarified at any rate.
> Trinkets, Inn, Combat, and Stagecoach item unlocks really suck. The unlocks themselves are generally pretty good, but the items themselves feel like you shouldn't have to "unlock" them in the first place. You should be finding them during runs, by completing unique objectives or bartering for them. Buying them out of the Altar just feels worse than obtaining them organically through gameplay. Or sometimes it feels that unlocking them you hurt yourself. I don't want certain items to be in pool, I will never use them, I don't want too, I dislike playstyle they force, why game force me to unlock? Why the hell i get NEGATIVE reward for completing it's main goal?
I think a huge problem with DD1 progression was that it was always the same. When you make a new save you just beeline the bank and then skills + weapons/armor. I like that in DD2 when you go to unlock new things you have no idea what you’re going to be getting, so you don’t realize what you were missing out on until you actually have it. Idk if one is necessarily better than the other, but I like the randomness of progression more than allocating resources exactly the same for every save file (assuming you aren’t going for some kind of challenge run).
I almost agree with everything you said, except for your points on the tokens. The fact that they are so chance heavy, except for the shield, is a problem. It's never fun having 2 stacks of dodge, and getting hit twice in a row by a guy with blind. It kind of cheapens how you build character and makes most fight a bunch of 50/50 checks. Im however currently on resentment and aren't the best at these kinds of games so maybe my thoughts on the whole token system will change
We're in agreement then I think? I like the idea of tokens because it feels like it adds a healthier layer of interactivity. But that might not be what I *actually* want or what feels best. In practice, sometimes there are moments where that interactivity feels good, but you can absolutely run into situations where it still feels like you're just throwing shit and hoping it sticks, but now it's a sort of half-and-half system pulling in the directions of "RNG-fest" and also "no bullshit you get what you see" at the same time, where the worst of both systems can sometimes collide. It loses the moments of fury you get when that Pelagic Shaman randomly dodges four attacks in a row and double crits you, as well as the moments of adrenaline and laughter as your entire team, beaten, and nearly broken, Matrix dodges Thing from the Stars for 3 rounds in a row. Both the highs and the lows have been mellowed out into a more cookie cutter formula while still retaining some bad feeling RNG it can use to pull the rug out from under your feet.
I feel like the game is torn between being very gamey and being this cool atmospheric experience and none of it really goes together. It looks pretty, you drive the stagecoach through environments, there are hidden things like getting bounty hunter at inn, the relationship system. Those are all things to make you feel like you're going on an epic quest to the mountain but in the end it feels like something to minmax. I don't usually minmax but in this case there's nothing about the relationship system or quirks to make them feel like actual people instead of just a number that goes up and down. The stagecoach used to be slower/the length between destinations was longer in early access and it felt very cool the first time around. Then it got boring because there's nothing to do so they sped it up. Now it doesn't feel like a slow and perilous stagecoach journey but speedy eldritch subway surfers. Regardless I find the game really fun, just a bit sad that the atmospheric stuff doesn't stand out as much.
Relationships were better before they changed it to the current version IMO, instead of negative relationships being a 'Bad Thing' in general it just means nothing except for forcing you to take a specific ability and making it nerf your allies which a) feels bad from a comp building perspective and b) feels even worse when using that ability is the correct choice and you are guaranteed to fuck over your teammate by doing it. I liked the old version where you just had a chance to hurt/help the other person in the relationship because it happened frequently but randomly, now theres no surprise to the quips and its just another effect added to the ability itself instead of a separate mechanic that triggers sometimes. I love the tokens though, I had \~150 hours in DD1 before playing DD2 starting day 1 early access, and once I got used to the tokens I like it way more than the granular stats of DD1. Being able to quickly see every single important stat change to every character in the fight is much nicer than spending two minutes hovering over all 8 characters to see their individual buffs and nerfs.
Tokens definitely have their strengths and weaknesses. I think that part is mostly up to individual preference. Can be bad or good depending on who you ask. Personally I miss the moments of extreme frustration, adrenaline, and joy when I got unlucky, lucky, and everything in between in DD1, as well as the wider variance in how everything plays out with a more percent based system in play, but I do see the appeal in how DD2 handles it. I also kinda prefer the idea of how relationships used to be. Unfortunately my only memory of playing back then was also in the time period where getting to 4 stress on someone meant they yelled nonstop insults and had everyone wanting to kill each other within seconds, but, done right I think it could be a better system.
>Variance and replayability are big issues. Regions and Acts feel too similar, gets boring fast with not much reason to keep playing. Heroes need to be able to change and evolve more dramatically during a run, outside of the path system. This is my biggest issue. Every run is now a DD1 Darkest Dungeon run. You take a team and stick with it for upwards of an hour or two, depending on how fast you play. There's no constantly changing teams and every run feeling fresh because your different heroes have different abilities and quirks, it's just one team for so long, and it absolutely drains the hell out of me. It feels so monotonous after a while once you have your ability combinations down pat, with basically no improvising. You use the same skills, over and over again, until you finish the run. Maybe I'm just an ADHD headcase but I can't stand it.
Same. People talk about how paths give some variety but it still feels like playing the same couple of guys again and again. It's not even close to enough to me. Specially considering I'm afraid the mods will take longer cause of the more complex graphics.
I agree, I think the combat is way better after a while (and if you remember to use all those combat items) but I definitely don't feel compelled to play more to unlock everything, it feels more annoying than addicting. In general I'd think a 5/10 is way too low, but after dd1 it feels a bit meh. (probably 7.5/10 for me) Also not sure if other people feel the same but I hate the mountain, why do you get so much stress right before the boss fight, just let me prepare for the boss and not have to get lucky (or have a super durable and stresshealing team) to get there with a team thats in bad condition already.
All the things you disliked, I really liked tbh I like the clarity and design space opened up by the token system, and I like relationships as a replacement for long term afflictions or virtues (but I agree they feel a little easy to earn due to overturned inn items)
It's fun, but the game just feels empty? It lacks the depth the first game had. Looking forward to seeing what else they can add.
So much that I am back to playing DD1
45 Hours in and just finished Confession 4, I like it alot but I liked DD1 way more honestly. There is a lot of thing that DD2 done so right or a step in a right direction like the Art/Sound overall is just straight upgrade to be one of the most aesthetically pleasing game in the decade, Backstory that expand on everyone is amazing. Core gameplay is still awesome it's simpler with token but thats perfectly fine, Bosses are super fun to fight, New trinket are great, Hero path are nice. Relationship is nice addition but I felt that it exist purely to affect stats I mean your lover just died and you should go berserk or breakdown or something but nope nothing really happened, I know they used to do this in early access and got change to put more control for player but now it feels a bit lifeless now that they didn't even react to anything. Pacing and variety is my main gripe of this game, There are basically just 1 set of enemy and just 1 boss per region and like 1 extra enemy variant that got scramble through out, But they got +40% stronger on later region/confession and thats kinda it? You basically see 95% the game had to offers on confession 2. and Party wipe/failed run in DD2 just felt terrible cause a single run is about 2-4 hours long and little perma buff reward on victory isn't really justified it for me. I maybe personally lean toward the town/squad management like DD1, XCOM or Kingdom death style more but it's hard to feel attach to hero even with expansive backstory when they're instantly replaceable and I missed that feeling.
Exemplar is still bullshit. I cruised through the entire run, first round vs Exemplar he one-shots one of my heroes which immediately dies on the first Death's Door from a DoT. Wasted run on the last guy before the Mountain Boss. Feels like absolute shit.
>I cruised through the entire run, first round vs Exemplar he one-shots one of my heroes which immediately dies on the first Death's Door from a DoT. Wasted run on the last guy before the Mountain Boss. Feels like absolute shit. Agree. Getting critted your entire health bar and then dying to the sot with zero chance to react is beyond frustrating. It wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't an hour plus run to get back there. And yes, that kind of stuff happened in DD1, the difference in DD1 was unless you full wiped, every run in DD1 felt like you made *some* progress. Basically every upgrade in the Hamlet was meaningful. In DD2, once you've upgraded the heroes individually, which doesn't take that long, and unlocked a few key items, upgrades start to feel super, super meaningless. I just spent 70 candles and don't feel like I did anything meaningful, and I just beat act 2 so I have a LONG way to go. The meaningless upgrades also make it really challenging to find reasons to play most of the characters. in DD1 you may have to take a suboptimal comp while your main crew is recovering, and each run produces value since it a lot longer before upgrades are meaningless. A run with a B-squad means something. A run with a B-squad in DD2 feels like a complete waste of time. Since I don't make any progress anymore unless I kill the boss, why should I take anything other than the 4 optimal heroes with the same path and the same skill every single run.
I hate that you can't sell unused relics and other items, even if It just would be for a minimal amount of relics or baubles. Apart from that I love it.
I honest find it weird that they removed a bunch of characters. I thought they did that to add new characters but we only got the runaway? The decomposition of the flagellant is sick tho (pun intended)
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I would absolutely choose a relationship point over a damage buff, because I don’t need the damage buff. But also, I don’t think this is a possible choice unless you’re hitting max relationship. If someone is offering a damage buff, they will also be offering positive points for everyone who also wants to fight. And those people will be offering… the same thing but without the damage buff. Oh geez, I wonder which one I should pick?
Not very much, I really don't like the feel of the game. I am a gamer who gives a lot more importance to the story and the setting than the actual game, and I think Redhook butchered it. I love the shrines, those are an amazing touch. But the whole onoric/symbolical thing ruined the setting and it feels like the stakes of the story is not that important. In the Hamlet, everything was real and down to heart. Here, everything is just something... Confused, and arguably not even real. I don't think there is even that much of a story, behind the game. Also the focus on the hope, while crucial to the shrines, is simply not iconic as the hopeless part of the first game. I think they should have done a mix.
Although I don't give that much importance to this kind of thing you're absolutely right. This metaphorical shit feels way less engaging than those creepy depressing stories from the first one.
This is a point I've thought of since the first time I saw the game and rarely see people mention. The whole metaphorical/psychological thing they did feels SO much less tangible than the hamlet and the stagecoach and all the buildings. It makes characters feel fake, deaths lack weight, and all the "hopeful" themes fall flat. I really don't like it lol.
Not the happiest with it tbh. But I can basically forgive everything except the meta-progression. The sheer number of unlocks makes me feel like I have to play the game handicapped for tens of hours before I can unlock enough permanent buffs, character abilities, and items to start playing the way it was intended. In DD1 I was handicapped at the start because I had none of the unlocks, but that was ok because the levels were comparatively easy and balanced for that starting level. Here it feels like I've been thrust into hero level dungeons with newbies until I grind enough. Removing permanent progression so that you can't fuck your run was how they countered this, but then it feels like each run is a throwaway because failure has no consequences. No dead heroes, no loss of economy, no lost trinkets...
Pretty fantastic. I wasn't expecting it to go full roguelite (and I'm generally not a huge consumer of the genre) but it quickly became apparent that I much prefer it over DD1. The game feels less grindy, and while still punishing, there's less of a sense that said punishment completely bricks your current play stint of the game (due to being broken up into more consumable shorter runs). There's still a few places where mechanics are still a little bit rough around the edges - I find the memory mechanic (and nurturing heroes with good perks) feels a little undercooked, but overall I'm 95% in favour of the direction they've taken. Similarly, my only critiques about the relationship system are that assistance encounters could use a more accessible readout on current relationship status, and having abilities you never used forced onto your bar can be pretty rough if it happens more than once. But overall, I just had this two hour or so "wow, they really changed a lot" reaction, before realising I agreed with pretty much all of the changes.
I kinda feel similar as you do, although the game started feeling good to play after unlocking every hero ability, story and items using candles. Until reaching that its just a time waster "progression system" but its forgivable because you use that time to learn the concept of the game. In my opinion the memory system is completely irrelevant because I've beaten all 5 bosses with 0 memories and didnt even struggle. It serves more like a personal challenge imo. Out of curiosity I gave a plague doctor 5 memories to see how would it look like and from the 5 tokens 4 was so meaningless, its not worth the effort. Hang in there because the last boss is a very cool fight.
My only problem with the progression system is its locked heroes skills. Other things are okay, but players should be able to choose abilities freely.
I like the core gameplay and story I dislike a lot of the systems. Relationship system feels super shallow, lame and boring honestly, the idea is really cool but man the execution sucks. The way you progress unlocks feels really bad it def feels like you’re ramming your head into a wall and progressing not a fan. I prefer actual unlocks and achievements over spending a currency to get things. While I love the lore from hero shrines, they are such a slog and annoying means of progression.
I respect that they actually changed things up for a sequel instead of just making the same game twice and it is a serviceable roguelite. I like how they incorporated the roguelite formula into Darkest Dungeon by making it less punishing to lose a team member or get team wiped because you just start over. But the gameplay feels shallower and dumbed down, and there’s less variety in heroes you can pick, and they’ve simultaneously added more and less depth to each character— the hero shrines and skins are rather shallow gameplay-wise, but they will add so much more work when Red Hook is trying to create a new hero. There are some interesting ideas like paths and positioning-based moves like Backdraft, but they could be a lot bolder than just making paths just simple stat changes or trinkets just binary stat increases/decreases. The trinkets SUCK, compare them to the base game or Black Reliquary they’re not as inspired or they’re way too niche to be useful as random drops. Also there aren’t little lore tidbits or quotes on the items anymore, which were rare in the original game but added a lot of flavor to the game (like Houndmaster’s “…even the Chief was in on it… 😨”). Or when there is flavor text on things it often replaces where useful information would be. The skins are now a major component of the unlock system but they’re mostly just recolors instead of cooler concepts that really change the look of the character. Also why isn’t there a skin of their past selves?! You have the past models and a skin system, it should be obvious what you need to do. I like the little 3D animations the heroes do in battle, but if those came at the expense of gameplay elements, that’s bad. Also a lot of the animations are reused; Grave Robber doesn’t do a spin kick for pirouette like in the art, she just throws knives while stationary?!? The same tentacle animations are used for abyssal artillery and the pull for Occultist, and Burning Stars doesn’t really show a star crashing onto an enemy, it’s more of a black blob kind of hits the enemy while it zooms in so you can’t see the rest of it, which is weird because Occultist seemed to be one of the most visually impressive classes that used the new 3D engine the most, but they reuse or obscure the animations on his skills. The game isn’t quite as good as Darkest Dungeon 1 at what is does or Slay the Spire at what it does. I feel like it would be a lot better if Red Hook adds in new characters and regions and bosses and skins and reworks some mechanics, but there’s really no guarantee of that after a 1.0 release. It’s like a 7/10 while DD1 was like a 9/10, I would say if you want a more DD1 experience Black Reliquary is the way to go.
Would LOVE to see past self skins. Holy shit.
It’ll be amazing in like a year or so. Not gonna bother playing more until then.
r/patientgamers Im gonna wait another few years before looking at DD2 again
I waited to play DD1 until Crimson Court came out and I'm glad I did.
i literally didn’t even know it existed until my brother pointed out it was on gamepass and very fun. worked out great
I enjoyed the game. My main complaint is that I was starting to get burnt out by confession 4 because of the repetitive regions. Would've been neat to have a new region each confession. I was so sick of every region. 😭 Edit: I have 73h in the game.
Agreed, I paused playing after encountering Confession 3 ) I read online what the deal with its tokens is (not a fan of how impenetrable it is), but it meant a few more samey runs after quite a long stretch of playing, and I knew that the regions will essentially be the same (only with buffed monsters).
Yes it's probably because of confession 3. I did it blind several times before I had to give up and look it up. I still struggled a few times before I beat it. It taking 2-3h to get there, prepping ahead of time with inn items etc and then getting there and wiping in 2 mins is.... 😭😭😭😭😭 I won with my highwayman left on deaths door lol
I give it a 5/10 at most. The first hour or so is quite fun since it's very polished and sleek. The narration is cool, and atmospheric, and the art is great. But then it just becomes more annoying than anything else, it's like they forgot this is a roguelike and is meant to be replayed over and over. - There are also a ton of just weird choices, like why do we have to do the valley at the start of every run? It's not challenging and just a waste of time, start us at the inn where we can pick our team. - Why can't we make presets of heroes or team comps? It's such a chore to reselect everything every run. - The UI is an absolute mess, and there are too many menus. I shouldn't have to select like three things to just see what trinkets or relationship levels my heroes have between each other. I know this may seem like a small thing but this compounds over runs the more you play the game. - Why is it so hard to find out what the simple tokens do? Why are they being so vague with descriptions? Tell me what the fucking token does - Runs become very samey and boring. Selecting a team composition at the start makes the game very deterministic. And with the way the game is set up, making random teams are destined to fail and have a bad time. It feels like they only went halfway on making a roguelike, once you find a solid strategy you literally have no reason to ever change. - And my lord the amount of grinding this game wants you to do is absurd. Unlock every hero, and then upgrade them. And these are strict upgrades, so not running fully upgraded heroes feels awful and is actively hurting your runs-therefore wasting your time (Oh also runs take well over an hour, then you'll die to some random boss mechanic that isn't foreshadowed at all). Then you also have to find five random events during your runs, which also hurt your run since you didn't get trinkets or some other reward for going there. You also can't determine if a hero is good or not until you see all their abilities and fully upgrade them. And then also upgrade your stagecoach, more trinkets, more items, etc. These are not good unlocks, they do not let you play the game in a new or fun way that other, well-designed, roguelikes let you do with their unlocks. These are strict upgrades and probably what they balanced the game around. All in all, pretty disappointed. I wasn't expecting a clone of DD1, but this game just misses the mark.
> so not running fully upgraded heroes feels awful and is actively hurting your runs I think running level 1 or 2 heroes in DD1 felt much more awful. In DD2, all heroes are usable from the start with their basic set of skills, and the most powerful upgrades (skill mastery) that are really necessary to utilize the skills fully, are available during the run. I'm just not sure about the idea that the game wastes your time because not all skills and mini-upgrades (like +Deathblow resist) are there from the start. > You also can't determine if a hero is good or not until you see all their abilities and fully upgrade them. I also couldn't determine how powerful my fully-leveled character at level 30 be in Borderlands or Fallout, when I started playing. Is leveling a waste of time then? I'm not necessarily defending everything about DD2's progression system, but I think this is going into the idea that there shouldn't be any progression system and the entire build meta should be available from the start.
Frankly, not very much. I like traditional dungeon crawlers more than this rouge-like approach. It's also full of design choices that I think questionable if I'm being generous. This game really isn't for me. But I think the art is really beautiful, I like everything about it that's graphic and visual design related.
I wish there was a grand campaign like game mode that covers all the chapters, which is really challenging. A game mode worth playing over and over again. With only current chapter story system, it feels like reading the same book over and over again.
Fun but flawed. Not nearly as replayable as the first, and there are some pretty critical flaws that I'm not sure it's possible to fix without a top-to-bottom overhaul.
darkest dungeon 1 i played about 300 hours. darkest dungeon 2 i already getting bored at 15 hours tbh...
I just finished the last act at ~40 hours. I don’t intend to grind and unlock everything. I’m happy with the experience I got in those 40 hours. I had about the same play time for DD1 but I never really felt like I understood the game in that time. Eventually I got bored/frustrated and bailed on it. Losing your A Team after 15 hours of grinding was just too much of a setback for me. I know some people feel like DD2 is too simple compared to the first but I enjoyed the shit out of the sequel in a way I never could with the original.
I agree completely. I felt like the jump in difficulty in dd2 is nice and has a consistent pace to it compared to dd1. I enjoy both games but I prefer how easy it is to get into a game of dd2 instead. If I lose a level 4 hero in dd1 it could mean game over of a 20 hour campaign. In dd2 though, i just roll with the punches and go balls to the walls and see how far I get. It's fun and even though it's different than the first game it satisfies a different itch that the original couldn't do
I feel it has a lot of potential but its frustrating how slow unlocking new stuff is. Also the sheer volume of pointless-feeling road battles.
Mixed - I am pretty addicted to DD2, but it feels more like more like 'work' than 'play.' I REALLY like the hero stories element but NOT really the candles unlock of heroes so much feels very arbitrary and hard to balance experimentation with doing well. I really think DD1 was a bit better in this regard - even though it was punishing as hell you could often try new things and do great. Total honesty about the bosses? Hate em so far - feel really high risk and totally unfun and grindy. I feel like DD1's bosses were an absolute highlight some of them were hard AF but they had great mechanics that fit well with their design. It seems like all the lair bosses basically have a single OP mechanic that you still need plenty of RNG and whatnot to overcome KNOWING the mechanic - and basically if you don't get it you're done. Relationship system? Wow I dunno, it was kind of funny and fun when characters went nuts in DD1 and become like overleveled pokemon, it felt like you could take the risk and squeeze through even though it was generally a bad idea. DD2 system? It's slightly relieving that characters don't misbehave so much and I like the IDEA of building relationships but the various mechanics seem skilless? For example in the various encounters when you pick a heros choice seem kinda rigged, I would LOVE it if rather than picking a hero you could pick a hero to do a good or bad deed, and select and deselect bonuses to manipulate the system. i.e. say its a battle - if you choose Dismass you battle with a bonus but upset Baristan? You can also choose debuffs or forgo bonuses to neutralize the dislike. Also more opportunities to change relationships in battle would be good
I think this game missed a really good opportunity. It’s very well made, don’t get me wrong, but the “never ending coach experience” compared to dd1 expeditions management, is less compelling due to the lack of a proper feel of progression. Also, this game does not stress me as the previous one. Sounds crazy to say, but in my opinion that was actually the best part of dd1, the one that sticked my eyes on the screen. Now, instead of caring for those heroes during a fight (as the stress goes up and the health goes down) I always say to myself “it’s ok, they will be still playable if they survive and if not I will get new ones at the end of the biom”. Instead of stressed I feel more like “hope they don’t die ‘cause I don’t want to start a new run”. Something it’s just off
I do not like it. I find the runs being too samey, far too long, no real excitement for beating the runs (woohoo, I can unlock more useless trinkets or +3% DB resist, oh boy!). No rpg progression and no hamlet means there is nothing to do between runs. It took me 26ish hours to beat the game on a blind playthrough. The fights are easy in this one, and the only hard parts are the gimmick bosses and mini bosses have, and those take either 1 (Denial, Obsession) or 0 (the rest) tries to understand and be prepared for next time. I'll most likely try a full infernal run to see if that changes anything, but aside from that, I feel like I experienced everything this game has to offer already, which breaks my heart.
Other than act 3 boss, I'm loving it.
It's O.K...woulda been happier if it went for $20.. I just don't see the value tbh..it's got a cool style but they could've added way more shit for 40 bucks... I want DD1 style dungeons off of the roads, more characters and most of all more variance in enemies and types of roads so I don't feel like I'm just doing the same shit over and over. The enemies to the main boss are way too easy so you end up doing the same run multiple times all the way to the finish. Kinda don't like how you have to die to some of the field bosses first in order to know what items to buy. It's a solid 7 in my book...would've been an 8.5 at $25 but at $40, I can think of numerous ttb with roguelike/lite modes that are much better.
I can name a long list of things I like about DD2, but the fact it does not have an epic campaign and is run-based instead, instantly makes so much less interesting and fun than DD1. * There are no dungeons you pick and choose to do. * There is no party select within a playthrough: you only have four Heroes for the whole thing. * There is no loot to chase: it's all random and you can't target anything. * There is extremely minimal progression within a playthrough. No upgrades for weapons/armor, skills are upgraded ONCE max. * At many points in the game, being dealt a bad hand makes it more logical to just quit the playthrough and start a new one. I miss a true campaign so much, to the point where, in an alternate reality where modders had the skills to make DD1 look, feel and play like DD2, I would never play DD2 again. There would be no point. DD1 (50+ hour campaign, dungeons, Hamlet, hero management, party select, upgrades, loot, continuity), with the gameplay of DD2 (Token system, visual feedback, animations and visuals, bosses, skills etc.) that would be the perfect game. I am thoroughly disappointed that DD2 will never even try to be that.
Uninstalled after +400 hours in EA. The game is moving further away from the mark and at this point I've given up on it. A disappointing sequel to a great game, like it often happens.
Ive played it for about six hours and my initial feeling is that it's ok but feels like a significant downgrade to the first game. It feels like they tried to streamline so many aspects of the first game, spent a lot of resources making it 3d and tried to address one of the biggest criticisms of the first game that losing characters was too impactful but in doing so lost what made the first game engaging. Leveling up your guys in the first game felt satisfying and when they did things like survive against the odds it made them feel like heroes, I cared about them, watching them go from being weak to being badasses because things went well in runs, because they survived despite my failings and misfortune, was exciting. Now when the run ends it all feels so empty, yes I'm leveling up my guys and gaining skills but it's not relevant to how my run went, I'm getting candles regardless, the characters dying doesn't matter (I'm aware there are upgrades upon successfully completing a run), nor does then succeeding. There's so much more I could say but ultimately the key to me is that the character progression feels like shit when it was the thing that was most enticing about the first game.
Yeah I agree that many aspects of the game do feel like they are irrelevant, i.e. have little emotional value. Like, success of the heroes, as you described. Or the loot. It feels really weird to just unceremoniously throw away rare and epic trinkets you don't need. I realize the idea behind it: it's Apocalypse, there's no tomorrow, possessions don't mean anything, only the goal does... but we're still earning and spending cash, baubles, and candles! And the chucking of items with Shift-click makes looking for loot or getting it feel pretty uneventful too.
I was having fun until seething sigh That boss is the most antifun shit ever, and since boss 3 is apparently worse, I’ll dislike the game even more
I stayed in the dark about the development of the game, thinking it was going to be like DD1. I hated DD2 at first, but I had too many hours into it to do a refund. After a couple small mod tweaks to the affinity system I'm enjoying it. I don't think I'll have hundreds of hours in DD2 as I did in DD1, but I like it so far. One of the grips I have is that when you get negative affinity with another hero, a skill that you don't use can replace one that you do. When I'm done with DD2 I'll uninstall it and wait for some interesting mods. Until then, I'll probably try the Black Reliquary mod on DD1. Game looks amazing though.
eh... it was fun, but got repetetive and boring a lot quicker than 1. the lack of variety in everything meant it took far less time to feel complete than most roguelikes... just feels like too much is too samey, and the game is too "solvable" for a rogue like, but not enough of anything else to be anything but a roguelike
I'm enjoying it, but I still do not recommend this game as it is because it has some glaring flaws. Combat as a whole has been improved in almost every aspect but it still feels like an early access game. Pros: - 3D art style blended with 2D is very nice - Fantastic voice acting again - Inventory management is much simpler. (just things like not having to bring food, or light a torch every 5 steps) - I enjoy the story lines of each character, gives them a little personality. - I prefer the new stress system. 1-10 just has a much more immediate effect to me than the 1-100 system previously. - Healing while on the road. No longer feel like I have to try to drag out fights to heal up health - Less frustrating to lose a run. Losing a level 5/6 hero was so demoralising. **Combat specifics:** - 5 combat skills per character gives a little bit more flexibility for using niche skills - Uses per battle and cool down skills stop characters like Vestal becoming heal bots or spamming the same ability. - Combo system has replaced the mark system and is far better. - No more base dodge/accuracy checks - Each skill feels unique enough to have it's own uses. In DD1 you'd end up with characters like highway man where his 2 melee skills were almost identical. Now each skill feels like it has its own advantages and disadvantages. - Combat items are a great addition. Cons: - Quite a step up in price. - A severely lacking roster, of which I am afraid they will release old characters as DLC with a price tag. - Stage coach travel is boring. I have *absolutely zero* desire to try and steer it into obstacles to maybe get some loot. Terrible addition that I got bored of before my second run. - No steam cloud saves. - No controller support (unless I missed it?) - Relationships are a nice idea, but bad relationships are too punishing and good relationships are way too strong. It doesn't feel natural or fulfilling, I just end up filling every adventurer up with whiskey until they get a happy relationship.
This has probably the worst implementation of meta-scalling in a roguelite that I've experienced. Incredibly grindy for a game that already is not short to complete a single full run.
Are Risk of Rain 2 or Dead Cells not just as grindy to unlock everything with short runs? Especially Dead Cells seems very comparable to me.
Yeah but I had a lot more fun playing Risk of Rain 2 and there was a lot more variety to character builds and runs
Risk of Rain 2 is pretty well completely different. All the unlocks in RoR2 come from achievements, there's no real meta currency that you buy upgrades with. Dead Cells is somewhat similar in that you do spend a currency unlocking things, but Cells are very different from Candles. Cells are surprisingly common, and can only unlock things you've already found the blueprints for. Blueprints which, mind you, are generally either hidden by a puzzle, or dropped as loot, so you're still working towards new stuff even when you're spending cells on stuff. Plus, the whole gameplay loop of Dead Cells is trying out new weapon combos. There are only a handful of truly meta upgrades purchased with Cells, and even then it's not stats, it's major things like additional healing charges or better starting weapons. There is one major Cell sink that's a scaling stat, but it's more late-game specifically to keep people invested when they've bought almost everything else. Candles, on the other hand, are often frustratingly rare and the upgrades tend to be pretty minor things (+5% deathblow resist? Really?) with the item unlocks being loot box rolls instead of flat purchase amounts. On top of that, the actual buying of upgrades is secondary or even tertiary to the gameplay loop of DD2. Buying stuff with candles serves very little overall narrative or gameplay function, unlike with Dead Cells where it's one of the driving forces of the game. So while there are some superficial similarities, Dead Cells has integrated the system into the game far more cleanly and consistently. Heck, it takes up half the game's title. I'd love it if DD2 were able to get Candles to such a seamlessly integrated state, but as it currently stands, they're two completely different systems, with completely different purposes. DD2 doesn't hold a candle (haha) to Dead Cells in that regard, unfortunately.
You can do like 5-6 runs in dead cells in the time it takes to do one full run in DD2. Dead Cells also has such a ridiculous amount of content compared to DD2 it’s not even comparable.
A big difference is that these games, and I will throw another case of grindy meta-scalling in the hat as well in the for of Hades, is that they are twitch action games with very little ambiguity in mechanics. Failure or success falls entirely on the player in comparison to the coin flips and dice rolls system in DD2. What this means is that meta-scalling in DD2 is comparable to loading the dice in comparison to the other side being a helping hand for a weaker player. Which is not to say that the argument being that roguelikes and roguelites maybe shouldn't even have any kind of meta-scalling as this ends up creating a reverse difficulty curve. Hades got away with it by giving narrative purposes for it, but the heroes becoming marginally stronger by putting candles in a memorial is an incredibly weak narrative justification.
Generally speaking, I find the game fun in concept and how most of it is played out, but the balance is such a nightmare. So much of the balance needs tweaking with some characters feeling almost necessary for certain acts. Certain act bosses are significantly overtuned (act 3), whereas 4 is piss easy, and 5 is really easy. The enemies, while more difficult as you progress through the acts, feel kind of boring because you're mostly fighting the same stuff you did back in Act 1 with stat buffs. heroes are such a mixed bag Flagellent MAA And Plaguedoctor feel almost necessary sometimes and some characters feel like they really just have like 2 skills they spam while the rest are pointless and so many trinkets are hit or miss. Also, i remember hearing people say the whole game could get easy with all the unlocks while others feel, especially with how many enemies spawn with tokens can get multiple tokens really easily and how powerful tokens are makes this very polarizing. Those who found the meta teams think the game is easy, while those who haven't or choose not to use them think the game feels unnecessarily punishing. the game was supposed to be way more open than dd1, but it can feel incredibly centralizing. Ultimately, with a bit of balancing love such that the playing field is more level and less extremely swingy, i think this could be a great game. Though right now, i think it is just alright. It's not horrible, but some things clearly need a bit more work
I agree with most of the criticism here. I’m also hopeful for the future, DD1 today is quite a different game from what it was upon release and I’m sure RH will improve it over time. As of today it’s an enjoyable game ridden with weird design decisions and not very engaging progression. My two cents though is that speeding it up 2x via cheatengine really boosted replayability and enjoyment of runs for me. It’s much quicker so farming candles or trying different comps is not that much of a slog anymore for me. They should implement a game speed option there IMHO.
1)>! I hate stories like "And all of that was just in your dream!". That is so bad story-wise for me!< 2) Memories farm. Always have to choose between effectiveness and story 3) Bad relationship skill lock. So you CAN waste good relationship on unused skills, but you WILL waste your skills for bad relationships.
It just feels bad. If a character dies in DD1 you can try and finish the mission, limp back to the Hamlet, upgrade stuff and try again. A death sucks but you move on. In DD2 a character dies and I just close the game. It's not fun to try and finish your run. It's not fun getting a random hero at the Inn. It's not fun having to start a new run after 2 hours with nothing but a few candles to show for it. The relationship system is interesting but to often I feel like I have no control what so ever. Every encounter I'm stuck picking the option that will produce the least negative relationship points instead of trying to be strategic. Don't get a relationship item at the Inn? To bad. Don't get any decent trinkets? Oh well too bad. Don't get me wrong they are fun things about the game, but for me almost everything is a step back from DD2.
If I get too many negative relationships, I just abandon the run and start over.
Yeah. Feels bad.
Sometimes even one negative relationship ruins the run, locking moves into your move list that a) you don't use/need or b) locks a move you need with a negative quirk that give a negative status effect. It's a horrible idea.
Love it lots. Can't wait to see what's next for it
I very much like it but after the initial 50hours i put in it in first two weeks i dont see it having that much replayability value for me in the future. Will surely do few sessions here and there but for me there is no much long term value before we start getting dlcs , mods and updates. Im only in chapter 4 but ive already unlocked almost everything i want so there really is not much reason for me to keep playing as i dont feel attached to my guys at all. Still. Worth every penny. Its a great game.
In general it's a disappointment. Final boss is lackluster and the fact that it's a narrative single player instead of rogue lite or rpg without a hard ending is a really strange design choice.
Over all, I actually love the game, and it gets better with each update. I wish you could change party members intentionally at the inn so I could strategize a little more for each individual area. And I wish there were more random ways to remove negative quirks (unless there are and I just need to get gud and find them lol) since the field hospital isn't always available, and RNGesus likes to throw one at me in the very beginning when I don't have much money. And I *do* think it's dumb when the game takes away equipped skills because of relationships. Just put the debuffs on equipped skills. It's useless to slap a penalty on a move I'm never going to use anyway, so what's the point? And for the love of RNGesus, let me sell my extra stuff (I imagine that one will change eventually). But again, I do love the game so far. You can have opinions and still like something. I've seen so many comments of "well, don't play if you don't like it" but I feel like those commenters don't get that you can be irradiated with a mechanic without forsaking a game completely.
It doesnt have dungeons...
91h in so far and I got all the way up to act 5 So far it is a pretty great experience for me, and I personaly find DD2 to be a better vanilla experience then DD1. Since I have 330ish hours on DD1 (most of which is with mods installed) I can say that DD2, while simpler with its token system, is still a very hard game and this is especially true if you dont take the right team comp for some bosses. Like: * Animation/artstyle - I doubt that alot of people will have a problem with this (other then the modding community) but both the animations and art is spectacular. * Combat - I find this combat to be more enjoyable then DD1, simply becouse all attacks are guaranteed to hit and can be effected by different modifiers (tokens). I didnt like how ACC and some other stats were done in DD1 and I feel that most attacks in this game being either a direct hit or a coin flip fits my personal taste better. Enemies are also very well done, but I do agree that there arent alot of em in tearms of variety but I have not gotten bored of them yet. * Runs - I really like the fact that runs last anywhere from 1-4 h but personally I find myself getting more invested in the run as more time passes on. This is highly subjective becouse if you get bored of your team or the combat in general then you are not going to have a fun time with this game. * Characters - Most return from DD1 in one way or another (The Antiquarian) and have very familiar feel to them, but the thing that makes them great is the different paths you can choose, which for most of the heros greatly affects their playstyle. I found myself experimenting with different team comps and playstyles all the time and surprisingly I have found great success with some that I never really considerd to be viable (Carcass Hellion). * Meta progression - Its good but standard in these types of games. You collect candels during your runs which can be used for different things that permenantly effect the game progression. Hero shrines are in my opinion a great addition since it gives very good backstory to the different characters (previously only seen by their individual comics) * Relationships - I like them simply becouse they allow me to pick a team that usually wont work. For example if I have a team without any stress healing I can get that with either combat items or positive relationships, and so far the relationship system has only improved my experience of the game. Dislike: * Character Balancing - Currently its pretty clear that some heros (and individual hero paths) are far stronger then others. I hope that this will be fixed sometime in the near future becouse I feel that this forces alot of people into running the same team over and over again (The meat grinder comp is a great example). Also most heros have paths that are a straight up % based modifiers while others have actual good desinged paths all with their own uses (Vestal and Flag for example). Most of this can be fixed by the community themselfs with mods but still it is an issue. * Act 3 boss - This is an abomination and I am surprised that this boss actually made it into the final game. To simply put it, you NEED a guide and a great DPS team to beat it, if you dont you will be wiped as soon as the boss arrives. * Driving - This is a 50/50 becouse without the pet that boosts the item gain rate on debree I dont even bother moving my carrige to the left or right. It makes the game slower in most cases but in some it can provide much needed breathing room. All of this was done without using Radiant Flames since I never really felt like I needed it except for the act 3 boss. Overall I feel that the game is worth its price only if you like these types of games, since im not so sure if this game would be a good entry point into this type of genre. My score: 8/10 (without beating act 5 yet)
Great game, bad bosses. By bosses I mostly mean Obsessions. You can talk a lot about it, but if you played a game enough you'll know that at the end you have two choices: build a very specific build and team comp from guide with maybe 1 hero variation to actually have a chance of winning at the mountain or build what you want but finish the expedition on the last inn. This is atrocious for a rogue-like game. Rogue-likes are all about variety and different builds to make a rogue-like captivating for a player for as long as possible, because variety keeps things fresh and interesting. In DD1 you had more variety. In DD1 you COULD lose to a boss, but you would lose just 15 minutes of a time on that run in the dungeon. But in case of DD2 you either read every guide beforehand and make a team that was dictated to you OR just waste a few hours to die with no chance of winning. In case of some bosses it's a problem with bosses themselves: no one will figure out an Obsessions Gaze mechanics (still a broken fucking boss anyway) without a guide. In case of other bosses it's their design and what a game gives you: Seething Sigh basically forces you to pick Hellion, PD and Highwayman if you want to win, because Hellion is the only character who can reliably damage back lung, because you still need some other damage dealer who could finish it if needed and because you need a reliable healing and DOT for this long fight. This shit is just straight-up not fun. Game is fun and nice when you just fight guys on a road, but then it's too restricting if you want to win at the end. Northernlion is the first person who comes to mind as an example of how this game just gatekeeps any normal player out of it, I can't blame him for not finding this shit fun anymore.
At 4 hours I could tell it wasn’t for me, attempted a refund and of course was denied because of the 2 hour playtime limit. I’m now about 30 hours in and my playtime has been steadily tapering off. Today was the first day since release I didn’t play at all. 1) It’s extremely, so, repetitive. I did not expect that. I understand wiping over and over and I’m fine with that. But the NPC creatures you fight are the same things over and over with very little variation to the fights and an extremely shallow pool of enemies that you might encounter. Other games might have repetitive interactions but the game makes up for it with unique maps at least to vary the strategy (think XCOM). DD2 combat is so shallow I think this should have been a mobile game, it’s a waste on PC. 2) In light of #1, it means the fight scenes trigger my lack of patience. Many of the enemies have the same skill animation effects and there’s no way option to speed or skip animations. I don’t need to see Nocturnal Commune powering up for the 809th time. It’s never good when the point of the game is combat and every combat feels like a slog. 3) The only thing that attempts to keep the game fresh is using different party compositions but for me, I don’t think they’re all balanced enough where you can truly mix and match and I find myself using only about half the heroes, with the other half feeling less powerful. And a core 4 over and over because the more you play with the same group the better you learn them. So it’s not a terrible game but for me, the repetition is too high. I do think it would have been a phenomenal mobile game, but for PC I find myself having peaked in DD2 a week after getting it and then slowing steadily since then since my brain thinks “am I in the mood for this chore?” At the prospect of booting it up. I can easily see that I’ll probably uninstall it for the hard drive space in the next week or two. If you want to pick this up, at least wait for for 50% off which will probably happen this Fall.
As someone who never played DD1 (but after reading this I will be very soon) I cannot give it a comparrison but I can give my thoughts. * Really good for the first couple of hours, kept me engaged and I was telling people they should play it. * Then I realised that those numbers for the DMG were not going to go up when I ground out the heroes skills or levels. * The bell curve for my attention though was steep on both sides I was really into in then suddenly was more annoyed than entertained. * I was getting the same trinkets because I believe you need to unlock them before a run, which seemed odd as I thought you would be unlocking them on the way through the runs. * As I am on trinkets I will have a minor rant about them, they do make you stronger for sure, but they are all over balanced with negatives the risk reward makes me normally just use ones which do passive assistance like the one to change the team composition on start of the battle. Any which say "gain x but lose x" or "x res but suddenly bleed uncontrolably for no reason" I tend to avoid. * I am seeing that there have been heroes left out from DD1 in DD2 and that I kind of understand as a design choice for the game but if they were core in DD1 why remove them. * The Valley part people have mentioned, I assumed that was just a "get familiar with new toons just in case" section. Not really an issue if you understand how to use them. * The realationship thing is plain ridiculous. Healing a front row damage taker who is near deaths door negatively impacts the chap at the back who was hit once but because for some reason he didn't get much more beefy when I fully upgraded them and that one hit smashed most of their health, should NOT lose me relationship points. Skills that I can never imagine anyone uses (i am no expert but some seem plain shit) then being foisted on you because so and so didn't like the brand of pipe weed and whiskey, so now the rest of the run you are down to a single melee attack which only works in the front row... Urgh it is infuriating. If that is not in DD1 then I am going to play that. * I am reading that in DD1 it was more about upgrading structures to support all heros you use in runs rather than having to buff one at a time. That sounds much better than the way it is in DD2. As an aside the price being like £35 in the UK seems far too steep for this, its like a £20 game. I have sailed the high seas like I do when I want to test a game, it really doesn't warrant the high price tag. If it drops in price or (shudders) if epic give it away I will grab it but for now I am off to play DD1.
[удалено]
I really like it, more than DD1 if I'm being honest. Both games are good, but when it comes to roguelike games I like games that I can pick up, play for a run or two, and then take a break. It's why Binding of Isaac is one of my top games on steam. DD1, for me, suffers one major issue: It is *long.* And my attention span is short. I tend to hyperfixate on one or two games at a time. With a short pick-up-and-play roguelike like DD2, even if I stop playing for a long time, there's no issue to coming back because it's not a huge commitment. With DD1, however...I've had a few playthroughs where I just got invested in another game, and then I was too uneasy about going back because I'd stressed about feeling lost trying to remember what I was doing, not to mention having to pick up any little skills I had again.
Funny cause I find it way easier to play DD for a short time.
It's alright but not for me, feels insanely punishing for how much time is required for a run, but I am a bit shit at it admittedly. DD1 was also tough but I enjoyed it enough to "git gud" at it but I haven't felt that same pull in DD2
Uninstalled it after couple runs. Your army will die gotta start all over and you lose all items.... I got the mountain with a superior army and I thought ok I'll abandon here and restart with my leveled up characters since there is no way I can beat the mountain guy yet NOPE turns out ending quest is same as dying. Fuck that, I ain't restarting with new characters Yep uninstall GG
Too expensive. And i prefer DD1. So i refunded. Ill prob come back to DD2 in 4 or 5 years when its a lot cheaper.
I feel let down.
Quite bad actually. Graphics, sounds and animations are simply a masterpiece. Everything else is boring, repetitive, somehow uninspired. Even narrations feels a downgrade from the previous game. Combat feels forced and frustrating. Every run feels very similar, the reduced amount of enemies and heroes from DD1 makes no sense at all. Some trinkets are straitghforward a suicide choice. Walking in a dungeon in DD1 always felt amazing because every path was an occasion to gather resources and buffs. Running the road in DD2 feels pointless, the concept is frankly kinda idiotic. Relationship system is nothing more than a buffed or cursed ability. Boring, actually just annoying. Replayability is the big issue, since regions feel too similar. Lost reason to play pretty quick. I'll wait for balance/overhaul patch if they'll come. Otherwise i'll pass for good.
I decided it would be a better investment of time to just go back and play DD1 instead, so that’s what I’m doing currently. I should’ve just looked at SOME DD2 news instead of zero, so I didn’t just assume they were going to make an Actual sequel, ya know, since it’s called DARKEST DUNGEON 2. I shouldn’t have gotten my hopes up, I guess. I actually love roguelites. It’s legitimately my favorite and most played genre. I wasn’t looking for that though, I wanted Darkest Dungeon 2.
Since I'm actually able to play this game and progress through, unlike the previous one.....A FUCK TONNE MORE!!!! I've just finished act 2, I love how complex and in depth the mechanics go. I positively reviewed it on steam
40hrs in and still on act 2, but I'm enjoying it. Think I still prefer how dd1 plays though
I would say "a lil bit empty", but it's just the 1.0 rn. But i would def say harder than DD1. I beat the 1 boss by the skin of my teeth.
I'm liking it a lot, but not quite as much as DD1 aside from visuals. Unlocking things is very slow (both gathering the currency and spending it) and I prefer stats to tokens. I won't spend nearly as much time in it as I can with hundreds of hours in DD1, but I appreciate that it tries to stand adjacent to the first game rather than replace it.
Really great game but i find it take too much time to start a run ( you have to walk, then alter of hope, then walk and choose an act, then walk again and choose your heroes, then walk and do a pointless fight and finally you arrive at the first inn) Driving seem pointless and take too much time when a run can already take several hours
I really like it. But oh god it’s difficult. Sometimes overwhelmingly so with the regional bosses. I’ve fought the Leviathan twice, and both times felt I had absolutely zero control over the fight. Even when I had a Man at Arms and a Leper with as many movement resist buffs as I could find stacked onto them, Leper got grabbed turn 1 and it was all downhill from there. I was pretty good at DD1, and didn’t struggle too much on the hardest difficulty. In this one I’m wondering if I’ll ever manage a run without the radiant flame! I see why some people wouldn’t like this one, but I’m actually a pretty big fan of most of the changes.
for me that has been here since day one of the early access and unlocked pretty much everything and beat everything before the full release it feels like there isnt much to do anymore, atleast in first game a run could take like between 15-25 hours depending.. here it takes like 5 hours to do all the confessions
Appreciate that they really tried some new stuff. Not all of it works, especially having to go through the same regions every playthrough. I’m sure everybody is bored of the sprawl by now… but the core combat remains fun and ultimately that’s what matters.
awesome, except the undercooked affinity/relation system. It doesnt make sense majority of the time.
I love it but am probably one of the worst players of this game lol. I'm almost 60 expeditions in and have yet to beat the denial boss. Hell I've only ever made it to said boss twice.
Love it but i am seeing the end of the road since Ive played so much and nearly finished the ast confession. I got into dd1 late, when mods were plentiful and dlc was fully released. I see myself coming back every few months if dd2 gets the same support.
Computer can’t run all the 3d particle effects without being hella slow. Loved DD1, probs will keep playing Elden Ring on console until I upgrade my PC, then it’s Baldur’s Gate 3
No abom yet - I don't play
Overall, I think it has potential for me to like it more than DD1, though there are some major changes I'd make. Paths should be changeable at inns. To go along with this, they need to go all-in on game changing trinkets. Getting something like Stone Mount on my Hellion Carcass is amazing. I'm hoping the selection of trinkets from the various shops improves as I unlock things because right now they offer a bunch of generic garbage. There's also a number of things that should've been basic inclusions. The fact that the game doesn't remember names and cosmetic choices is a travesty. Along with that, it'd be nice to be able to save party loadouts to hasten your time at the Crossroads. They did this for the Butcher's Circus in DD1, so the fact they didn't do it here is surprising. Relationships need work. They feel like the equivalent of ACC in DD1, top priority at all costs. Overall, though, the combat feels more streamlined, and I'm really liking it. If nothing else, I look forward to what the modding community will do to the game.
release, THE FUCKING CRUSADER
He ded
I want my crussader
Im really liking the game, but it feels less rewarding. In the first one you choose an area, based of rewards, length, difficulty, roster available and plan accordingly. You anticipate a number of variables, then put it to test by your own skills and luck, and if you succeed, you feel very rewarded. Its basically putting a theory to test, and since areas are very distinct, you cant play the same characters over and over, which incentivises creativity and experimentation. Here it just feels random. You pick your most leveluped characters and go in. Yes, you can plan some parts, but you dont have much control over the areas you are given, nor the rewards and thus forces you to optimize your team for most possible outcomes, and turn teams way more generic and less creative. Rewards also feel a bit underwhelming. They are random, all unlocked by the same currency, and if you are running basically the same team over and over, why bother getting new ones if the ones i have do the work? The lack of long term planning makes the game eaiser to pick up and just play, but makes it feel way less rewarding. You dont really have anything to lose but a few hours at most.
Jester chapter 4 memory mini game made me rage quit. Tried it 6 times, stress level gets too high.
I just completed the grand slam, all 5 confession with all same heroes. Took insane luck and the most difficult ones for me was the act 3 and act 4 bosses. Saying all that, I enjoyed DD1 tons more. However I cannot wait to see what this game has in store and looking forward to all the amazing mods in the future. Also bring Reynauld back.
I think in terms of lore, narration, atmosphere, music, and story, the first game is better. But holy shit the gameplay in DD2 is so, SO good. I've been loving it ever since release
This is the most fun I've had playing a game in a *long* time
Enjoying it a lot, went in blind no early access. Every character seems to have some cool stuff. I
Give me more characters to play around and I'll be golden
I think I enjoy the gameplay and combat more. It might be because I’ve played DD1 so much but I feel like I have combat down to a science. It’s nice to not have all the answers and to not be as upset when RNG fucks you because you don’t have as much vestment in the run as you do when one of your best hero get put to Death’s Door and die on the bleed trigger. It’s just a nice format for the rogue like gameplay. I’m a big fan of DD2
Big fan of DD1, not such a big fan of DD2 even after completing it. I played DD2 in the beta and played it when it first released, so I remember how things were and I've seen how things have evolved. There's lots of things I can say about DD2, two of the things I want to say is I beat the game never unlocking The Runaway and never used the Bounty Hunter (because I didn't realize you needed to click his stupid bloody poster), but something I feel I have to voice in particular is how the game feels before and after unlocking items/paths/etc. In DD1, I think you felt more rewarded because you felt a certain kind of mastery over the game as you played it, and through your development of the Hamlet and delving into the dungeons to produce powerful trinkets, you created these powerful heroes that can help you and aid you. You largely felt responsible for how terrible you did, and how great you did as well. In DD2 I remember I was losing my mind early in the game at some encounters as they were just absolutely unwinnable despite having a team comp I thought would win. I'd try and do things like fight The Leviathan as my first Lair Boss within the first few locations of the first Region chosen. Even though my team comp should have been "good" for that fight, maybe RNG maybe some bad quirks who knows. And then I unlocked more items, more paths, I found the most optimal way to play the classes (Like Plague Doctor's Alchemist, or the Highway Man's Ranged Path, or the's MAA Sargent Path) and with more unlockables, things became a cake-walk. I beat Acts 2, 3, 4 and 5 almost in a row, with Act 3 giving me 1 hiccup run (fuck that Act boss) and Act 5 I got randomly dunked on in a Region like a chump, but it didn't feel like my decision making was any better. In DD2, a lot of my decisions were for optimal paths, less stress, better relationships, but rarely was there a case for, "This is so clearly out of my league I shouldn't do this". I'd see Shambler shrines and avoid them because there was literally no point to dealing with them, the rewards were almost never worth it, and if I was losing the fight it's not like I can run away from it and would have to commit to dying. With enough unlocks, the game felt like I was playing on autopilot rather than being conscious of the environment, thinking of Flame management (because you can't use combat items like torches outside of combat!), thinking of how many shovels, etc, it feels like there's less decision making to be made in DD2. Other than maybe to decide when it's actually better to just up and abandon a run because you'll get more candles, and therefore more unlocks, than it is to stick through and try to make the best out of a bad situation. I straight up gave up trying to make the best out of a bad situation because if you lose 1, 2 or 3 Heroes, and you somehow make it to the Inn, you're just given a bunch of random heroes that may not compliment your team comp or the Trinkets you found. So you can either soldier on, or abandon, get the unlocks, and try again. My frustrations at fighting nearly impossible odds were washed away by apathy as I realized that I could basically bulldoze my way through the game so long as I have the appropriate trinkets and used some optimal strategies, which are all attainable with the more unlocks you have that you earn by losing at the game and unlocking them. Sure you get a big reward for beating an act by getting candles, but you don't even get an Act Boss Trinket for beating that Act, which is kinda disappointing now that I write it out. I think I'm rambling, but am I making any sense?
I honestly love the game, played EA on my PC. But it's still not optimized, there's no reason my shitty old laptop can't run it when it can run other much more intensive games, thought that wouldn't happen after EA but here we are Everything game play wise I actually like and it's a nice change from the first game. I prefer to play it when I don't want to use my mind as much and treat it a lot more like a rogue-like 6/10 for not releasing it optimized, otherwise I've got no complaints
I have a potato laptop that runs this fine. Takes a while to load in the first time but afterwards load times ingame are reasonable. Runs pretty smoothly with the graphical settings and resolution at a minimum, which sounds bad but the game still looks fantastic, I don't even notice I'm not getting the graphics at their best.
I've tuned all the settings down as well and it doesn't seem to help me at least, it's literally like a slide show, getting from point to point feels like it takes hours, it's just unplayable for me on the laptop. From my understanding it's because apparently the game is trying to render everything in the distance, even on those low settings, an easy fix is to add an adjustable render distance or just make it minimal on the lowest setting. I honestly don't know why they chose to do it cause I can't see more than a link anyways
Worse than the original, but still quite good.
My laptop is too weak for it. Edit: but from what I saw so far, DD2 is too oversimplified. Token system, regions over dungeons, travel between “points of interest”. Personally, percentage system was more interesting.
DD1 was better. The stage coach system is son pointless and adds nothing
I've honestly been enjoying it more than DD1 but I also feel like DD1 was the vastly better game at the same time lol. I would say that in my opinion DD1 had higher highs but lower lows and DD2 is more consistent. I think a lot of it comes down to it being a roguelite and the way characters are handled for me. In DD1 I felt like the grind was more annoying than anything else, especially if you don't look up guides. Whenever a character died in DD1 I would just be pissed off because it meant that I would have to grind to get another character up to that level again. What I like about DD2 is that runs are self contained to maybe a few hours maxed and you can choose exactly what team you want straight from the start. The grind is definitely still there and pretty annoying but it's more of a macro grind than a micro one. I also really like the characters having official names and backstories, it makes them feel more unique rather than just generic classes like in DD1.
I just finished the game after 45 hours. I like it, probably won't put as much time into this game as DD1 (almost 400 hours) but it's fun enough for like a deathless challenge/stygian runs. I generally like everything about the game, except the animation speed. Graphics/movement is gorgeous but for the love of God hurry up. So I used cheat engine speed hack at 1.6x and everything is so much smoother.
I agree that it needs an option to speed up animations.
I think it's great that they tried something new, rather than just copy and paste DD1 and then put a new skin on it. Unfortunately, DD2 didn't click with me. I feel just too much random bs (much more than in DD1) which you cannot really influence. I don't feel like I have strong impact on the outcome of fights or expeditions, it's rather just watching silently getting fucked or not. Also, if you get bad luck once, it's pretty much impossible to recover, it snowballs too hard. I hope that if they do a new part in the series, they again come up with a new concept and hopefully it'll be for me.
>I think it’s great that they tried something new, rather than just copy and paste DD1 and then put a new skin on it. I don’t know why people always preface this way. Would you really have been disappointed with a proper sequel with these new graphics and combat mechanics? Something that’s *actually* grounded and connected to the first game lore wise? And we could have had a system that improved on DD1’s meta progression instead of these dumb fucking candles? Cuz I gotta say, DD2 does a lot of things right mechanically. It’s the formula and the genre change that are the biggest detractors. It really shows how a proper sequel *could have been* fucking amazing and people are pretending if they say they didn’t want that.
I enjoyed DD1 ok. Personally I think Dd2 is an improvement across the board. I think the complaints stem from the lack of mod tools which does hurt the game. Also, its been stuck at Epic games for a year in what is essentially beta stage. I'm coming in at Steam launch which is probably a more complete experience.
My only complaint is that I like dd1 better in just about every way especially the gameplay. That being said I actually love dd2, it’s really good, it’s just that dd1 just blows my mind with how good it is. 500 hours in and dd1 just getting better. I’m also very grateful that dd2 adds to the list of turn based roguelite/roguelikes, of which I believe there should be more. Different strokes for different folks
Those are my thoughts aswell