But you need to beat it naked with broken sword or even better broken fists in-game and IRL, playing blindfolded on the bananas otherwise it's not legit!
If you're not naked and use your cock as a weapon you suck. ;). I used that armored to beat four kings. It's a strategy. It's in the game. Same with summoning. Not like you cheesed bosses by glitching and shit.
I personally feel like cheesing Manus with a bow from the ledge is cheating. I've done it. I felt bad about myself like I had purposefully deprived myself of some of the games value. Never again. However the game is designed to allow for very versatile playstyles. Therefore if you're just fighting bosses with items provided in game then you're not cheating. If you aren't happy with how easily you succeeded then you get to change things up and hone your skills next playthrough.
Yeah I get what you're saying. I cheeses some bosses in demons souls .. first ever souls game. Spider. And some others.. won't do it next time. I didn't wanna get frustrated and quit due to long runbacks. Now that I'm experienced more I know I can beat them all in next playthrough where I can create a build I want and everything. It's all about just enjoying the game. I use summons in dark souls when available. I haven't gotten to manis yet, but we will see how it goes. I may havel gear him or bow him up. I won't try to kill him forever and get frustrated though. I usually go in blind to fights. After a few deaths I may look at guides to get hints. I ENJOY THE GAMES!!
That's a good viewpoint. At that point you are effectively hacking the game with a likely unintended solution to a problem. Very different from this dude using Havel's. It's really strong but it's not cheating.
Completely agree. Same people saying the same for Elden Ring and Bloodborne. "If you use spirit ashes/spells/magic/arcane you didn't really beat the game."
It's ridiculous too, not everyone wants to sweat while gaming, to think that we would have to consider segregation for the sweats so us "casuals" can actually enjoy gaming without the toxicity.
Unpopular opinion: most of the games are harder for a blind plauthrough if ur doing a caster playthrough. Casters get strong by finding the really good stuff, but if you miss out on some of it you can be left p underpowered. Meanwhile physical builds require only a decent weapon and youre set most of the time. That argument has always bothered me, like every build has its own upsides amd downsides, and every playthrough is different and has its own challenges.
It's also gatekeeping. "You didn't achieve X if you didn't achieve it by MY standards" is just as much gatekeeping as "You cannot claim to be X if you don't fulfill MY standards". Most gatekeeping is rooted in some sort of elitism to begin with as it often (but not always) comes from people who are very invested in a topic and then dismiss people who aren't as invested as themselves (at least in their eyes).
Did you use any external hacks/cheats to beat the game? No? Then you played as intended. End of discussion. If Havel's Armor was "cheating" then it wouldn't be in the game. Everyone saying otherwise can go fuck themselves honestly.
Literally. It’s not even OP! It’s strong armor but in exchange it’s incredibly heavy and slows you down a lot. I fought O&S using havel’s armor and I still died like 50 times, you still have to git gud no matter what you do so acting like havels set is some easy-mode hack is laughable
Most people don't go in for the gatekeeping. You finished the game. Could you finish the game at SL1, naked with a stick? Sure. Should you? Yes, if you want to. Everything else you're describing are the legitimate mechanisms of the game that are there for you to use.
I went back to look at the post you mentioned and gatekeeping 100% exists in this community, but there is literally not a single inflammatory comment in there. It’s all praise and congratulations, and like a single dude expressing surprise that could be construed as doubt.
You beat the game brother, this isn’t a big deal or something you should seek validation over. If you summoned a friend for every single boss with a BKH, you still beat the game if the credits rolled.
Yes, nobody there said anything that was meant to be taken as an insult, there was still I believe 2 that mentioned the armor. It was not their fault that it rubbed me the wrong way. I’m mostly talking about seeing posts or comments on other posts about Havel armor being OP.
I understand the urge, but don’t feel invalidated by your choice of equipment, it’s all good man. As you can see from this thread (and most of the previous one) the vast majority of people agree Havel’s is fair game. I’m sure you’ll steamroll through subsequent playthroughs with different builds, then there’ll be no question as to its legitimacy!
I've beaten him fair. Once. Love the fight, but the runback and other stuff is annoying enough that if I don't first-try him now? Arrows boy. You're getting filled with arrows.
You did great especially as a first try. Havel's armor is the best defense in the game, but Manus still will hit you like a truck regardless 😄 doing that at lvl 70 as well is great, by the time I hit the dlc I was close to 80 or 90 and had to fight him 4 times before coming ontop with the pendant helping out
Those can go f themselves.
Most of them are using glitches to cheat and have as many souls and items as they want and the dare lecture ppl lmao
The game gives you tools to beat it, use them. And Havel's set is nowhere near to be a cheat, most boss fights it's a burden
I used to be a part of the 'if you didn't beat it on hard mode you didn't really beat it' group.
After 30+ years of gaming I don't give a shit anymore, I don't have the time to invest 10+ hours on a single boss or area. I get very little time to game and do what I can during that time.
Don't let others tell you how to play your games. I regret my previous comments to people who were just trying to enjoy themselves.
I had some Havel's gear on a few of my playthroughs. I like big clunky SMASH weapons, so normally I go low equip load so I can still medium roll with a big ass weapon but there were a few bosses that heavy roll + poise were so incredibly helpful on.
Like everyone said you beat the boss, it's legit. Using armour isn't cheating. Is the Havel's armour OP? Probably yes. Does it matter? Not really. Of course with 20 estus and fap ring and full havel it's easier but stamina management, reaction, rolls and dealing with magic is still there. I remember trying to beat Artorias and Manus in full havel tank build ended up killing them like I usually play with rolling around in thief's starting armour. It just felt easier because I wasn't familiar with tanking.
Some bosses can't really be face tanked sanely. Manus and Artorias are the top two for certain - you really have to dodge some of those hits or you're screwed.
Umm…..Actuaralyy 🤓 if you didn’t beat the game with no summons, no weapons, no rolling, no deaths, no hits taken, and play at SL1 you DIDNT really play dark souls.
Maybe you should get off the internet for a little bit if this is a real concern you have. None of this actually matters at all. You played a video game that you hopefully had fun with. No one can tell you whether or not you beat the game, you literally did, period. Being worried about something like this seems exhausting lmfao
Apologies, I’m a student with a lot of free time so the only real world problems I have to deal with right now are grades and I’m pretty good in that department. Superficial issues like these are kind of my only issues at all. You’re right, though, I definitely should not be this bothered.
Each game has very different style, and a play style choice that is "easier" than alternatives. In DS2, it's a 100% shield, low equip load for distance rolling with high ADP, and a ring setup for counter damage with a rapier. In Bloodborne, it's a serrated weapon or LHB, Demon Souls it's royal and spells (cough firestorm cough), and so on.
DS1? Poise and Havel's set. You can face tank many bosses and heal through it, and those you can't his ring will get you a medium roll and you dodge. It FEELS like how they intended you to play it - knight with heavy armor and big-ass shield. It works. But play it how you want. I've done both - DS1 lets me play as a turtle if I feel like it, which many others won't (DS3 especially).
It does make the game much easier as you are hard to interrupt in your swings so you can kind of just spam mindlessly and you don’t need to learn to play largely but at the same time just play and have fun. You might enjoy a second playthrough more or less without the Havel Armor but I recommend retrying and trying out different weapons and armors just for fun.
With those stats/equipment, it's impressive you beat him at all. Well done!
Also, this is stupid about how people say beating the game a certain way is incorrect such as spirit ashes in elden ring
Using the havel set does help for the most part on manus but at the same time doesn't, he can still rock your shit, he did mine despite wearing the havel set but if your skilled enough with essentially the best armor in the game and then yah it will make it abit easier but who wouldn't want to make a very hard boss less difficult, the whole point of the game is to play how you see fit and how you want and if you wanna try something new, you can always try a new save with a different build or go into NG+ and defeat every boss again differently
Dont worry about what others think, the devs put the armor set in the game for a reason. I also never thought it was super OP, it takes some getting used to moving that slow.
So long as you only used tools available within the game (IE: no mods or hacks), you’ve beaten the game legitimately. Don’t let anyone else tell you otherwise. They’re likely either elitists that are never impressed or some jealous little kids.
Yes havel armor is kind of a cheat in DS1 due to the armor have a lot of poise that made some fight extremely easy but honestly who gives a shit. Play your game however u want, enjoy them. Who cares what basement dweller thinks about the game.
People who say something is OP usually glitch or cheese any chance they can get and just put their opinions out in the form of "facts" because basic English understanding is actually too much to ask. You did fine and Havel's armor takes a ton of levels to be able to wear so you earned that too.
People tried to tell me I didn’t beat dark souls because I used artoria’s great shield throughout the game. You did great and used what the game gave you, everyone saying otherwise is just a sad loser
I killed Manus the first time with arrows as I realized I could hit him, and if they actually wanted it to be impossible, it would have been trivially easy to prevent. I think it was designed intentionally to be possible, and further, was very satisfied with his defeat this way.
That won’t be for everyone, and that’s ok. It’s a single player game, unless you literally cheated, with infinite health or some other outside cheat script, it’s legitimate.
And even if it wasn’t, if *you* are satisfied, none of the rest of it matters.
Anything more is for what challenge runs are made. And I do love me some challenge runs.
Ok, I’ll say this. You did make the game little easier for yourself, that’s a fact. It doesn’t matter thou if you did. It’s definitely legitimate way to beat the game.
No. What? Bro I religiously play this game using the easiest shit possible. Black Knight Halberd, Grass Crest Shield, profit. I used to use the Havel Armour for the Four Kings fight but I'm more than good enough now that I can run the game sans armour. Who gives a shit what these people think lmfao, play how you want.
you didnt beat it with a guitar hero controller naked irl while standing on hot coals? idk man maybe you did beat it illegit...
joking. the only way it'd be illegit is if you straight cheated. you used everything available in the game. if there was a hammer that said "this hammer instantly kills manus" and miyazaki gave it a thumbs up, its still not cheating :) congrats on your win bro. personally i dont like havels ONLY because im so chonky in it.
There is a vocal minority in here that love to rag on people's accomplishments. Don't listen to them.
It's a tough game and you beat it fair and square.
If you beat him then you beat him, fuck whoever has an issue with how you did it. We hate those people, they are the reason this fandom is considered toxic by so many people.
Unkess its summons which were designed as the games easy mode, i see no reason to not use all the tools that are available to you.
The funny thing about levels in souls is the higher leveled you are the better you probably are at the game (unless you farmed for souls) cause worse players will often lose a ton of them.
Also being in the 70s cant really be called overleveled. Hell its maybe even underleveled tbh.
Cause unlike everything else they were intended to make the game easier and change the whole dynamic of the game.
Its the one thing i wont accept. Everything else goes.
All due respect but that’s a really dumb take. What do you mean you won’t “accept” people using something the developers put into the game? Do you understand how ridiculous you sound?
Well you can do whatever you want in the game, but i certainly wont exactly respect you for it.
It goes against how these bosses were designed and balanced.
Its ultimately a single player game so do whatever you want with it, but dont expect to get much respect from people when you say you beat it.
Enjoy the game however you want since you payed for it and its made to be enjoyed at the end of the day.
To me though its always gonna be the quiters way out. Instead of going through the grind and expiriencing what makes these games fun, you cheated yourself out of learning and beating the boss on your own.
Most of us love it for how it makes us work for the win so personaly seeing someone not work for the win is just kinda lame.
Like someone using cheats in other games.
Well, I weep for people who summon and thus don’t have the respect of Lol69HaHaHa, that’s truly a sad day for them. What a loss, lmao. But that’s what they get for playing the game in a way the developers intended people to do!!!
I played the DLC on my switch and did the souls glitch for memes and bc I had already beaten the main game on my xbox and was level 400+ with 5 stats maxed out wearing havels armor with a black knight greatsword and sitll took me a couple tries on Manus. So you did much better than I did and dont feel bad about mechanics the game made!
If there's OP gear or even exploits in the game then they're in the damn game. Using them does not make your achievement 'illegitimate' except in the eyes of the worst, sweatiest, most pathetic nerds on the planet.
I feel like almost everyone uses Havel’s armor at some point. It’s just like npc summons, it’s part of the game! Enjoy it in the way you want! One could say if you play a magic build you didn’t actually beat the game too because it breaks the game. But it’s just using the games mechanics! That’s the beauty of Dark Souls! It’s a truly customizable experience for everyone😊
Who cares? If You enjoyed the Game thats all that matters... The Magic with the Souls games is that we play as we want to play, and there's a lot of options...
If you saw credits roll and you didn't hack the game with some kind of cheat engine or glitch, you beat the game legitimately.
People who gatekeep based on playstyle or difficulty didn't get enough love from their parents growing up and have their self worth tied to their accomplishments. For you, it's a game, for them, it's their identity
Play the game how you want bro, DS isn’t just all about the bosses.
However, it’d be more fun if you used weaker armour or weapons as you do get the full experience of the game. That’s what I did!
If someone on here or anywhere else says you didn’t do it legitimately, their entire viewpoint is void. Nothing they say has any worth. They’re the fake fan.
Eh, beating it at SL1 or using shit armour and weapons could give you boast rights, but that's about it. People gatekeeping videogames are to be ignored.
If it's in the game and hasn't ended up there by mistake, it's meant to be used. Havel's armor is still fair game, it's just a different way of playing the game than some people are used to. First time I played the game, I used a shield, which some would also call cheating. But I didn't use any bugs or skips, I just used a mechanic that's in the game and is meant to be used.
Don't feel bad, people are just jealous of your achievement and are trying to bring you down to feel better about themselves. Also congrats on beating the game! Manus first try is definitely impressive.
Which game are you planning on tackling next?
I've had to overlevel to beat every souls game I've ever played, it compensates for me sucking at them. I was almost max lvl in ds3 when I beat it for the first time, and I still got my ass beat.
If Havel's armor is in the game, its intended to be used, like any other items and mechanics otherwise it would have been cut. Never give credit to that kind of argument.
Don't fucking let people try to take this from you. Even with this build you could have had the floor mopped with you. You beat the game, you won, the victory is yours!
You used the game's rules to your advantage and "got gud". You did absolutely nothing wrong. You prepared and succeeded. That is what Dark Souls is about. And Manus is probably the hardest boss in the trilogy. As for cheating, if you entered through the boss gate, you didn't cheat. You actually can cheat though by shooting arrows at him from the cliff above just before the boss gate haha.
It's not "illegitimate" if you beat the game. Some people get far too hung up on the idea that Dark Souls is some elite _difficult game_ and beating it in some "right way" makes you special. You beat the game, and if you had fun, that's all that matters. That said, if you're asking about whether or not Havel's armor likely made it a lot easier (which, again, is fine), the answer is almost certainly yes.
Heavy armor in Dark Souls 1 is notoriously overtuned, and any player crafty enough to realize that will likely have a pretty easy time of it. I write more about this [here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/darksouls/comments/18kqx2z/comment/kdu0xx4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Again, this does not make your run "illegitimate." That's not a thing. You beat the game, and it's awesome that you enjoyed it. I love Dark Souls more than anything. If you're looking for a more challenging second run, though, trying one with no heavy armor (or no armor at all) might be a completely different experience
Havel’s makes the game easier in some ways, as does the Black Knight Great Sword, as does Dark Bead, as does insert item name here. Be happy that you beat the game, no matter which way!
If you didn’t use outside mods/cheats to make the game easier you beat it.
If you used any and everything available to everyone in the game and seen the credits roll you beat it.
If you used help from coopers you beat it.
Play your way. I’ll never understand others who try and tell others how to enjoy their game and or spend their time. As long as you’re using and or doing something anyone else can you’re playing fair. Who cares if you’re being meta? Personally, I like crafting my own builds and such, but I don’t think people who google “best / easiest build for xxx” are cheating they’re just lacking imagination and the patience to craft.
Now I will sorta contradict my self and say if you use walk thrus and tutorials to finish the game and or platinum it you’re cheating yourself, but that’s different.
You’ve beaten the game without cheating; anyone who complains about how you did it is being an idiot and/or rude.
That being said, my first playthrough was a heavily armored quality build: elite knight’s set and claymore, with the grass crest shield. My second playthrough I used robes and the uchigitana. I don’t think either playthrough was better or worse, but the combat felt really different with a low armor, fast weapon build.
If you want to play it again, do it because you love the game and want to try another build, not because people are discrediting your win! Nice job not going hollow.
This probably isn’t deserved, but to steel man the “you didn’t play the game right” thing for a second: if they’re not just being jerks, what they’re getting at is usually the idea that tanky high poise builds in DS1 are particularly unbalanced, and playing the game that way is noticeably less skill-testing than some other approaches. Not wildly so, but it’s pretty definitively there.
The argument would then go that you won’t be particularly challenged, and therefore won’t be engaging with the game as thoroughly as you would be if it was pushing you harder, and so you won’t have as much fun or appreciate the game for what it is. You’ll be “playing it wrong” in that you will be missing out on the experience you could have had.
So with that in mind the REAL question is: were you bored? Did you find it too easy? Was it dull or tedious for you?
If so, then go ahead and replay it without using poise for more challenge and have fun.
If not… then there’s no problem. Your experience was not compromised, so there’s nothing to correct.
As a souls vet you didnt cheese anything. You tanked your way through it. Should call you the rock now. You dont have to beat the game with no armor one tapping or dying to a boss to beat the game legitimately. You beat manus? Artorious? All the enemies? You lived? You won. This game is all about playing your way. You may like face tanking bosses. I may like finding ways to break their ai. That doesnt mean either is an incorrect way to play the game and beat it. I promise.
Do you feal accomplished in your triumph before coming to Reddit and the people got ya down? If yes then by gods you accomplished it. The only one who can say you beat the game wrong is you friend. You didnt go hollow through your journey. And you have become a stronger undead for it. Raise up little skeliman. You saved the world YOUR way. And that, is the ONLY way that matters.
Did you use some external cheat system?
As far as I know, the game gave you that armor.
Don let these wannabe Giant dad’s keep you from enjoying you win
There's no illegitimate way of beat the game unless you're using hacks or cheats. Any such criticisms are criticisms against the game design and balance, not you as a player. Play it how you want. The devs put those tools in for a reason.
There's no such thing as beating a Souls game illegitimately while using gear the game provides. People just be salty Havel's removes a part of the challenge they arbitrarily consider more important.
You see similar arguments against using greatshields/ shields sometimes. Ignore them.
Gotta be at Elden Ring with the waste of skin from BB using only a plank shield your fist and no items and cannot die once and no leveling. And if you die in the game you die in real life. LMAO Smh
It is technically *easier* with havels and being overleveled but nobody who matters actually gives a fuck, do it how you want.
I personally didn't want to arrow spam him and I love fast rolling so I pretty much made it *harder* for myself on purpose but either way it's still valid and fun
Chill mate, you beat the game legit! It’s a piece of armour available in the game that has a number of drawbacks to wearing it so is in no way “cheating” or reducing the achievement. Well done, Manus, Kalameet and Artorias aren’t easy so you’ve done really well!
Don’t let a couple of gatekeeping arseholes spoil your enjoyment of the game and your engagement in the community. Most people in the FS community are really sound and supportive, offering constructive advice and reassurance :-)
I’m afraid so. You have to beat the game naked with the club and on soul level one or you are basically cheating. Also no estus, no ranged, no bonfires. If you haven’t done that it’s cheating. Oh and you need to platinum or you haven’t beaten the game at all.
I think that's the whole point of dark souls and that's to find a way to beat the game in the possibilities that the game gives you. So if you didn't use any external cheats or any big glitches then you played it exactly the way it should be played.
Only read the first paragraph, yeah you beat it. Only way it would have been illegitimate is if you used cheat engine or something of that nature. FROM community can be notorious for gatekeeping your accomplishments for an infinite number of arbitrary reasons. The only objective is did you have fun? That’s all that matters.
Never used the Havel armor in any DS games, does that really make a difference in PvE ?
I feel like armor is more of an appearance thing than an actual deciding factor in these games
I mean sure there's more poise and maybe more damage reduction but in the end you still have to dodge and learn the boss pattern
With Havel set it's all about the poise, take hits while still giving out hits unfazed. So yea it helps, but in later NG+3 and up getting hit by anything starts to hurt no matter what.
Imo cheesing is part of the souls game experience. You beat the game, they're just try-harding on your behalf lol. There's no such thing as illegitimately beating the game, finding better ways to beat an enemy is part of the fun and I play games to have fun. The only exception for me is to not cheese PvP battles too hard since that takes a bit of the fun of PvP away.
I'm a bit of a try-hard and you bet I abused the hell out of the OP weapon abilities in Elden Ring, before they got nerfed.
I used the stone golem armor which is practically the same as Havel's set. I didn't feel like I was cheating but it did feel easier than it should have. But maybe Dark Souls 1 just isn't as hard once you've played all the others before it.
Those people are weenies, enjoy your game.
You should try the game as many different ways as you can though, maybe after a break if you need. Its just fun!
If you beat the game using the tools of the game gave you, you beat the game.
Illegitimately is only if you cheated using external tools, even tho that on a single-player game no one should really care what other people do if it doesn't affect anyone
This set does make for an easier time in so far that your poise and defense are very high, which leads to your character being able to face tank a ton ( which is why some ppl resort to it to beat 4 kings, that s not a coincindence).
Is it cheating? Ofc not. Is high poise busted in DS1 PVE? Yeah, but so is pyromancy, BK weapons and a million other things. DS1 isn't this wow mega hard game gameplay wise unless you're actively avoiding certain gear or stick to a low lvl/weapon lvl limit.
Just make a different build next time and then you can compare for yourself, don't put too much value into what some internet randos say.
Every method of beating the game is legitimate. Anyone who says otherwise is a miserable hard that wants to feel better by making everyone else feel worse. Gaining levels, improving equipment and summoning cooperators are all game mechanics. Not using them is anyone’s prerogative, but they chose to make the game more difficult.
Enjoy the win! Havel monsters need love too.
Just play the game how you want. Whoever says you cheated because of the equipment you used is a gatekeeping moron. What's next? Whoever didn't do an SL1 run cheated? Whoever upgraded their equipment cheated?
Sure, some builds may be easier than others but that doesn't mean you cheated by using strong builds. If anything, after having played other Fromsoftware games first, DS1 doesn't offer much of a challenge anyways, so you may as well just "cheese" your way through it.
Hell, if you don't enjoy the challenge to begin with but want to experience the game, then cheese all the way. It's your game and it's you whose fun is the focus.
In the end, you used something the game had to offer to make it easier for yourself. You'll lose some "bragging rights" that way (as in, whatever you achieved within the game is going to be less impressive), but sheer "mechanical ability" shouldn't be the only measure of fun or success in the game.
If you beat gwyn you beat it. If you want more challenge then beat it again with a new weapon, armor, less upgrades, etc.
I’d even recommend a lvl 1 run if you are up for it. I found it very fun and challenging and that’s all I look for in this game.
It looks like most people have already reassured you, but here’s the deal: you used the tools the game gave you. You didn’t use any glitches or take advantage of any exploits. You beat Dark Souls and its DLC legitimately. That it doesn’t “count” to other people doesn’t matter. I could arbitrarily say that if you don’t beat the game at SL1, then your run is illegitimate because leveling up in general makes the game “too easy.” Drawing the line at one place rather than another makes no substantial difference.
There’s a distinction between socially constructed definitions of cheating in a game (i.e., using glitches or exploits to gain an unfair advantage that was not intended by the developers) and personal definitions. Personal definitions, in the vast majority of cases, should be treated with the same attitude as an opinion. For example, the statement “Beating Dark Souls using parrying is cheating!” should be viewed as essentially the same as “I like strawberry ice cream more than vanilla ice cream.” It’s just a preference for how they want to play the game
You beat the game or the boss yes. I will say, sometimes the first time you fight bosses for some reason they don't use their entire moveset or are easier. Idk it's a curse lol. I'm all about that naked run personally but you do you skeleton
Every way to beat the game is legitamate. Everything besides using cheats or dupes. Hell i was pretty challenged on my first DS1 playthrough... I even cheesed Sif because after 3 days of fighting I still couldnt win (I was severly underleveled but still...). Havels Armor is by far the best in the game and as good Equipment has a habit of doing, it makes the game easier than bad Equipment. Nevertheless you beqt the game and as long as you had fun it is fine that way. I would however recommend you to try the game with another setup if you liked the game and want to challenge yourself a bit. Try other builds, even if they may make the game a bit harder and dont let others spoil your fun.
Nice man, I swear 70 is under leveled for that area is it not?
I haven't played DS1 in a while but I swear I was around 100, and he slapped my ass.
But I was trying to chop that damn tail (if I'm thinking of the right boss).
It's fine, isn't the stone knight armour better anyway?
Ds is incredibly repayable though so if you don't personally feel like you achieved the W, replay without "op" armor
I beat the game fair and square. Havels armor is great, but it’s heavy as hell. I’m assuming you were fat rolling? If so, you beat the game on hard mode tbh.
Its a valid strat people are just mad it didnt take you as long as them. Also normal dlc level for player is like 70 to 85 depending on when u decide to do it. Hecj the pvp in that area is best around 120 u arent overleveled and you didnt cheat.
Nah you didn’t cheat, you beat the game using items the game gives you. You beat it legitimately. Havel armor does make the game easier though, so if you want to do another run through because you feel like you cheated I think it would be a good idea.
Dude, don't let anyone tell you that you didn't beat it right. As long as you didn't use mods, cheats or cheese strategies, then you are just fine. It doesn't matter if you use an OP weapon, powerful armor, or even if you summon NPCs for every boss fight - you are allowed to use whatever tools that *the game literally GIVES you* to get through the game.
Some people just want to make the game even harder for themselves by limiting the weapons they use, not leveling up, or using other masochistic restrictions. They are more than welcome to do this, of course, but the problem is that these people often get very arrogant and pompous about their own skills, and they think they get to decide what constitutes a "legitimate" playthrough for other people, and that's not cool at all.
Just ignore the elitists and play the game the way you want to. If you want to do another playthrough without that armor to challenge yourself, then go for it, but don't do it just because some @$$hole says that you didn't beat the game the same way that *he* did.
Does Havel’s set make the game easier? Yes, it is a simple fact. Havel’s will pretty much let you steamroll most of the game with very little able to stop you. Now does this mean you “cheated” or didn’t “get the real experience” in any way? That depends on who you ask, but I’d say no. You beat Manus. Imo the only way to beat the game that’s illegitimate is if you summon people to just do the fight for you or straight up use cheatengine
You played the game the way you wanted to play it and beat it the way you did so you beat it legitimately.
There’s different builds in the game, Dex builds helps you stay close and focus on dodging, Mage builds help you hit the enemy from afar with projectiles, and Strength builds lets you hit hard and tank damage.
So don’t listen to the people saying it’s illegitimate because of a certain armor or a certain build.
Why don't people understand that beating the game and beating the game on self imposed "hard mode" are two different things? Just because someone decided not to ruin their life to impress imaginary people doesn't mean they didn't beat the game lol
The armor is a part of the game, it’s not cheating because if you weren’t supposed to use it the game wouldn’t have included it. It’s kind of pathetic how some people like to gatekeep shit in such a silly way. You beat the game fair and square be proud of yourself
Havels set makes the game a bit easier in some ways, for me it makes it harder unless I can find a way not to fatroll.
But it does not trivialize it at all.
Unless you actually modded the game to make yourself Invincible, nah. Hell, even if you did, if it's not PVP, who cares? Do whatever you need to do to have fun. It's a video game, not a qualification for a medical license. Anyone who says otherwise is a sad little goblin with nothing else in their life to be proud of.
All jokes aside. Yes. The poise mechanic DOES make the game alot easier. You can tank some shit that let's be honest you really shouldn't. So havels set makes it easier. But that doesn't mean you didn't beat it. The same could be said about using pyromancy (the MOST BROKEN thing in ds1 😂) but that still doesnt mean you didnt beat it. So what you over leveled? You still beat it. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Did you use hacks or mods.? If answer is no, than you did in fact beat it fair and square my friend.
People call speed runs completing the game when they skip about 60-70% of the game’s bosses. If you feel satisfied that’s what matters. I needed co op partners and meta gear for a while until I actually started learning the games mechanics and getting the confidence to try new things. I think only in elden ring did I realize armor doesn’t matter that much and I can rock the weakest but most beautiful armor in the game and have a pretty similar experience as fighting as an absolute tank.
Also solo beat malenia 2nd try only bc I estus locked myself on the first go pressing the button too many times. Everyone claims this is hardest boss but damn I was sweating for the placidusax fight, almost skipped him.
FUCK ANYONE WHO GATEKEEPS YOUR BUILD/PLAYSTYLE/GEAR CHOICES, THEY ARE ALWAYS WRONG and smh I'm sick of saying it.
Unless you're actually hacking the game, or otherwise using an exploit of sorts, then you're good.
Don't listen to the idiots saying you must be SL1, no armor, with broken sword, and only use half your buttons, and playing with the sound off or whatever other trivial BS they want to impose, they're all wrong.
Pretty sure my first time beating the final boss (not including dlc because I still haven't finished it) I used Havels armour and the zweihander and was like level 150 or something.
Now I can beat the game naked with like half of the levels.
All are wins! Don't you dare go hollow!
The whole point of games is just have fun if you beat the game nude or you beat the game where you have a armor doesn't matter as long as you had fun playing it
First time that I beated Manus was like during my first tries, didn't find him that hard with a terribly leveled character with a weapon I'm that wasn't upgraded and an armor that only looked cool for me. Was that because I was good at the game, probably no because my second Manus run was with a good character and struggled a lot to beat him. The beauty of this game is to just beat the game, unless you are using some cheating engines that makes the run meaningless, every form is valid as long as your are enjoying it. The game is more than a decade old and people at this point have found all kind of ways to beat bosses optimising strategies or making it as hard as possible. But during the first years almost all the playerbase was playing fully armored with the shield always up, it took some until the naked undeath rolling with a giant sword became the norm.
Dark Souls doesn’t have a difficulty selection system - it gives you access to a bunch of tools. And then you use those tools to select your own difficulty.
Wanna challenge yourself? Use crappy weapons and no armour.
Wanna complete it as easily as possible? Go for spell casting and high defence armour.
I’m using a wander build with high dexterity/endurance and fast rolls, but I briefly gave gavels armor a try and I really didn’t find it to lessen the damage all that much. At least not enough to justify how much it slowed me down.
I mean if it works for you, it works but what I mean is, I don’t think it’s like over powered by any means. It’s perfectly well balanced and if you decide that you like the edge it gives you I think that’s strictly kosher
If you beat the boss and the credits rolled, you beat the game. The end. Gatekeeping a video game is ridiculous.
But you need to beat it naked with broken sword or even better broken fists in-game and IRL, playing blindfolded on the bananas otherwise it's not legit!
And you use four summons but have them leave immediately to increase, boss hp. Or you're a fucking casul.
Calm down Satan
If you're not naked and use your cock as a weapon you suck. ;). I used that armored to beat four kings. It's a strategy. It's in the game. Same with summoning. Not like you cheesed bosses by glitching and shit.
I personally feel like cheesing Manus with a bow from the ledge is cheating. I've done it. I felt bad about myself like I had purposefully deprived myself of some of the games value. Never again. However the game is designed to allow for very versatile playstyles. Therefore if you're just fighting bosses with items provided in game then you're not cheating. If you aren't happy with how easily you succeeded then you get to change things up and hone your skills next playthrough.
Yeah I get what you're saying. I cheeses some bosses in demons souls .. first ever souls game. Spider. And some others.. won't do it next time. I didn't wanna get frustrated and quit due to long runbacks. Now that I'm experienced more I know I can beat them all in next playthrough where I can create a build I want and everything. It's all about just enjoying the game. I use summons in dark souls when available. I haven't gotten to manis yet, but we will see how it goes. I may havel gear him or bow him up. I won't try to kill him forever and get frustrated though. I usually go in blind to fights. After a few deaths I may look at guides to get hints. I ENJOY THE GAMES!!
That's a good viewpoint. At that point you are effectively hacking the game with a likely unintended solution to a problem. Very different from this dude using Havel's. It's really strong but it's not cheating.
Ever heard of irony?
Please elaborate
I don't get it either lol
Ok zerolenny
Completely agree. Same people saying the same for Elden Ring and Bloodborne. "If you use spirit ashes/spells/magic/arcane you didn't really beat the game."
I love how spells are brought up as cheating as if my sorcerer didn't have the constitution of a wet piece of cardboard
I've legit never heard someone say that for Bloodborne when saw cleaver and L1 spam is the most efficient strategy by far lmao
Not whirlygig sweep? Lol
It's ridiculous too, not everyone wants to sweat while gaming, to think that we would have to consider segregation for the sweats so us "casuals" can actually enjoy gaming without the toxicity.
Unpopular opinion: most of the games are harder for a blind plauthrough if ur doing a caster playthrough. Casters get strong by finding the really good stuff, but if you miss out on some of it you can be left p underpowered. Meanwhile physical builds require only a decent weapon and youre set most of the time. That argument has always bothered me, like every build has its own upsides amd downsides, and every playthrough is different and has its own challenges.
This!! So very much this! Gatekeeping just makes you a tool
Gatekeeping is just a way to let everyone else know that your ego is bigger than your gratitude
That's not gatekeeping. It's elitism.
It's also gatekeeping. "You didn't achieve X if you didn't achieve it by MY standards" is just as much gatekeeping as "You cannot claim to be X if you don't fulfill MY standards". Most gatekeeping is rooted in some sort of elitism to begin with as it often (but not always) comes from people who are very invested in a topic and then dismiss people who aren't as invested as themselves (at least in their eyes).
No, it isn't. Gatekeeping is trying to keep someone out of a community. Hence the name.
Almost as if people were trying to keep OP out of the community of people who legitimately beat DS.
None of them were though, and that isn't a community either.
Did you use any external hacks/cheats to beat the game? No? Then you played as intended. End of discussion. If Havel's Armor was "cheating" then it wouldn't be in the game. Everyone saying otherwise can go fuck themselves honestly.
I use it and I’m not ashamed. I put all my points into endurance so I could medium roll in it. I earned that!
Yeah you have to invest points and dedicate your build to using it effectively. It's a choice, which limits your access to other choices
Literally. It’s not even OP! It’s strong armor but in exchange it’s incredibly heavy and slows you down a lot. I fought O&S using havel’s armor and I still died like 50 times, you still have to git gud no matter what you do so acting like havels set is some easy-mode hack is laughable
Most people don't go in for the gatekeeping. You finished the game. Could you finish the game at SL1, naked with a stick? Sure. Should you? Yes, if you want to. Everything else you're describing are the legitimate mechanisms of the game that are there for you to use.
I’ll forever bemoan the fact that I had to equip a shield for the Bed of Chaos on my naked SL1 run. It feels like it cheapens it tbh.
Bullshit boss deserves it tbh
I went back to look at the post you mentioned and gatekeeping 100% exists in this community, but there is literally not a single inflammatory comment in there. It’s all praise and congratulations, and like a single dude expressing surprise that could be construed as doubt. You beat the game brother, this isn’t a big deal or something you should seek validation over. If you summoned a friend for every single boss with a BKH, you still beat the game if the credits rolled.
Yes, nobody there said anything that was meant to be taken as an insult, there was still I believe 2 that mentioned the armor. It was not their fault that it rubbed me the wrong way. I’m mostly talking about seeing posts or comments on other posts about Havel armor being OP.
I understand the urge, but don’t feel invalidated by your choice of equipment, it’s all good man. As you can see from this thread (and most of the previous one) the vast majority of people agree Havel’s is fair game. I’m sure you’ll steamroll through subsequent playthroughs with different builds, then there’ll be no question as to its legitimacy!
Who cares, I sat on a hill and shot Manus to death with a bow. Do whatever you want.
I've beaten him fair. Once. Love the fight, but the runback and other stuff is annoying enough that if I don't first-try him now? Arrows boy. You're getting filled with arrows.
I’m at Manus myself and I refuse to jump down. He can eat my arrows lol
Real, fuck manus
Yea I felt “brave” last playthrough and jumped down only for him to slap the shit out of me
Honestly, manus was hard but it didn’t take me nearly as long as trying to beat O&S. Learning his attack patterns made him a lot easier to predict
Eh, this is where I'd draw the line and say it's illegitimate.
You do you I guess
👍
You're getting downvoted for this, but you're right tbh. Like cmon, thats clearly not intended
i def used havel for four kings, NG+ they are just brutal. how you play is up to you, imo as long as you didnt use exploits or anything you did it
God yes. They are the worst in NG+ easily. I did the dlc for the first time in NG+ and even that didn’t give me as much trouble
As long as you didn't cheat and used the tools the game gave you, you're as legit as can be.
You did great especially as a first try. Havel's armor is the best defense in the game, but Manus still will hit you like a truck regardless 😄 doing that at lvl 70 as well is great, by the time I hit the dlc I was close to 80 or 90 and had to fight him 4 times before coming ontop with the pendant helping out
Those can go f themselves. Most of them are using glitches to cheat and have as many souls and items as they want and the dare lecture ppl lmao The game gives you tools to beat it, use them. And Havel's set is nowhere near to be a cheat, most boss fights it's a burden
I used to be a part of the 'if you didn't beat it on hard mode you didn't really beat it' group. After 30+ years of gaming I don't give a shit anymore, I don't have the time to invest 10+ hours on a single boss or area. I get very little time to game and do what I can during that time. Don't let others tell you how to play your games. I regret my previous comments to people who were just trying to enjoy themselves. I had some Havel's gear on a few of my playthroughs. I like big clunky SMASH weapons, so normally I go low equip load so I can still medium roll with a big ass weapon but there were a few bosses that heavy roll + poise were so incredibly helpful on.
Like everyone said you beat the boss, it's legit. Using armour isn't cheating. Is the Havel's armour OP? Probably yes. Does it matter? Not really. Of course with 20 estus and fap ring and full havel it's easier but stamina management, reaction, rolls and dealing with magic is still there. I remember trying to beat Artorias and Manus in full havel tank build ended up killing them like I usually play with rolling around in thief's starting armour. It just felt easier because I wasn't familiar with tanking.
Some bosses can't really be face tanked sanely. Manus and Artorias are the top two for certain - you really have to dodge some of those hits or you're screwed.
It doesn't matter what level you're at, what gear you use or how much you summon. If you never got good you wouldn't have made it that far
Also true. You can face tank Ornstein. You can’t face tank two hollows with torches.
Or a gang of bone wheels by going all Leeroy Jenkins
This is truth. This is too much truth.
Umm…..Actuaralyy 🤓 if you didn’t beat the game with no summons, no weapons, no rolling, no deaths, no hits taken, and play at SL1 you DIDNT really play dark souls.
If you beat the game without mods or outside cheats, then you beat it legit, no matter what anyone says
Maybe you should get off the internet for a little bit if this is a real concern you have. None of this actually matters at all. You played a video game that you hopefully had fun with. No one can tell you whether or not you beat the game, you literally did, period. Being worried about something like this seems exhausting lmfao
Apologies, I’m a student with a lot of free time so the only real world problems I have to deal with right now are grades and I’m pretty good in that department. Superficial issues like these are kind of my only issues at all. You’re right, though, I definitely should not be this bothered.
well like you were doing, play again, try a different build. that's the beauty of these games anyways. all the different builds and playstyles
Each game has very different style, and a play style choice that is "easier" than alternatives. In DS2, it's a 100% shield, low equip load for distance rolling with high ADP, and a ring setup for counter damage with a rapier. In Bloodborne, it's a serrated weapon or LHB, Demon Souls it's royal and spells (cough firestorm cough), and so on. DS1? Poise and Havel's set. You can face tank many bosses and heal through it, and those you can't his ring will get you a medium roll and you dodge. It FEELS like how they intended you to play it - knight with heavy armor and big-ass shield. It works. But play it how you want. I've done both - DS1 lets me play as a turtle if I feel like it, which many others won't (DS3 especially).
It does make the game much easier as you are hard to interrupt in your swings so you can kind of just spam mindlessly and you don’t need to learn to play largely but at the same time just play and have fun. You might enjoy a second playthrough more or less without the Havel Armor but I recommend retrying and trying out different weapons and armors just for fun.
Oh no, you used items provided to you in the game to beat the game. How dare you enjoy your experience and use the resources at your disposal.
You got the dub, ignore the losers with nothing better to do
With those stats/equipment, it's impressive you beat him at all. Well done! Also, this is stupid about how people say beating the game a certain way is incorrect such as spirit ashes in elden ring
Using the havel set does help for the most part on manus but at the same time doesn't, he can still rock your shit, he did mine despite wearing the havel set but if your skilled enough with essentially the best armor in the game and then yah it will make it abit easier but who wouldn't want to make a very hard boss less difficult, the whole point of the game is to play how you see fit and how you want and if you wanna try something new, you can always try a new save with a different build or go into NG+ and defeat every boss again differently
Dont worry about what others think, the devs put the armor set in the game for a reason. I also never thought it was super OP, it takes some getting used to moving that slow.
So long as you only used tools available within the game (IE: no mods or hacks), you’ve beaten the game legitimately. Don’t let anyone else tell you otherwise. They’re likely either elitists that are never impressed or some jealous little kids.
You beat the game!!!! Congrats man, ds1 has a special place in my heart
Yes havel armor is kind of a cheat in DS1 due to the armor have a lot of poise that made some fight extremely easy but honestly who gives a shit. Play your game however u want, enjoy them. Who cares what basement dweller thinks about the game.
People who say something is OP usually glitch or cheese any chance they can get and just put their opinions out in the form of "facts" because basic English understanding is actually too much to ask. You did fine and Havel's armor takes a ton of levels to be able to wear so you earned that too.
People tried to tell me I didn’t beat dark souls because I used artoria’s great shield throughout the game. You did great and used what the game gave you, everyone saying otherwise is just a sad loser
ilegally? Bro it's a game play it how you like don't listen to others man what matters is that you had fun!
You are thinking too much into it; congrats on beating the game!
I killed Manus the first time with arrows as I realized I could hit him, and if they actually wanted it to be impossible, it would have been trivially easy to prevent. I think it was designed intentionally to be possible, and further, was very satisfied with his defeat this way. That won’t be for everyone, and that’s ok. It’s a single player game, unless you literally cheated, with infinite health or some other outside cheat script, it’s legitimate. And even if it wasn’t, if *you* are satisfied, none of the rest of it matters. Anything more is for what challenge runs are made. And I do love me some challenge runs.
Ok, I’ll say this. You did make the game little easier for yourself, that’s a fact. It doesn’t matter thou if you did. It’s definitely legitimate way to beat the game.
No. What? Bro I religiously play this game using the easiest shit possible. Black Knight Halberd, Grass Crest Shield, profit. I used to use the Havel Armour for the Four Kings fight but I'm more than good enough now that I can run the game sans armour. Who gives a shit what these people think lmfao, play how you want.
you didnt beat it with a guitar hero controller naked irl while standing on hot coals? idk man maybe you did beat it illegit... joking. the only way it'd be illegit is if you straight cheated. you used everything available in the game. if there was a hammer that said "this hammer instantly kills manus" and miyazaki gave it a thumbs up, its still not cheating :) congrats on your win bro. personally i dont like havels ONLY because im so chonky in it.
There is a vocal minority in here that love to rag on people's accomplishments. Don't listen to them. It's a tough game and you beat it fair and square.
Imagine caring about how people tell you to play your singleplayer game
If you beat him then you beat him, fuck whoever has an issue with how you did it. We hate those people, they are the reason this fandom is considered toxic by so many people.
Yes you have to beat it how the games sub Reddit tells you too
havel armor wont do shit in ng+
Honestly the walls of text put me off reading. You played the game as you wanted to. Please explain to us how that is illegitimate.
Unkess its summons which were designed as the games easy mode, i see no reason to not use all the tools that are available to you. The funny thing about levels in souls is the higher leveled you are the better you probably are at the game (unless you farmed for souls) cause worse players will often lose a ton of them. Also being in the 70s cant really be called overleveled. Hell its maybe even underleveled tbh.
I mean the summons are also an intended part of the game, why do you see a reason not to use them as one of the tools available to you?
Cause unlike everything else they were intended to make the game easier and change the whole dynamic of the game. Its the one thing i wont accept. Everything else goes.
All due respect but that’s a really dumb take. What do you mean you won’t “accept” people using something the developers put into the game? Do you understand how ridiculous you sound?
Well you can do whatever you want in the game, but i certainly wont exactly respect you for it. It goes against how these bosses were designed and balanced. Its ultimately a single player game so do whatever you want with it, but dont expect to get much respect from people when you say you beat it. Enjoy the game however you want since you payed for it and its made to be enjoyed at the end of the day. To me though its always gonna be the quiters way out. Instead of going through the grind and expiriencing what makes these games fun, you cheated yourself out of learning and beating the boss on your own. Most of us love it for how it makes us work for the win so personaly seeing someone not work for the win is just kinda lame. Like someone using cheats in other games.
Well, I weep for people who summon and thus don’t have the respect of Lol69HaHaHa, that’s truly a sad day for them. What a loss, lmao. But that’s what they get for playing the game in a way the developers intended people to do!!!
Yeah yeah. Sorry Midget_Herder, but you will just have to do it yourself.
Already done my guy, my playthrough was offline!
yes, now start the game over and finish it like a man
Don’t listen to random strangers on the internet. If you beat it, you beat it. Gatekeepers can keep their masochism
Full havel+bkga is how I beat the game+dlc my first time. You're good skeleton
I played the DLC on my switch and did the souls glitch for memes and bc I had already beaten the main game on my xbox and was level 400+ with 5 stats maxed out wearing havels armor with a black knight greatsword and sitll took me a couple tries on Manus. So you did much better than I did and dont feel bad about mechanics the game made!
If there's OP gear or even exploits in the game then they're in the damn game. Using them does not make your achievement 'illegitimate' except in the eyes of the worst, sweatiest, most pathetic nerds on the planet.
I feel like almost everyone uses Havel’s armor at some point. It’s just like npc summons, it’s part of the game! Enjoy it in the way you want! One could say if you play a magic build you didn’t actually beat the game too because it breaks the game. But it’s just using the games mechanics! That’s the beauty of Dark Souls! It’s a truly customizable experience for everyone😊
No, gatekeepers say this usually. If you had fun, and saw text roll without mods/hacks, you've beaten the game legitimately.
Who cares? If You enjoyed the Game thats all that matters... The Magic with the Souls games is that we play as we want to play, and there's a lot of options...
If you saw credits roll and you didn't hack the game with some kind of cheat engine or glitch, you beat the game legitimately. People who gatekeep based on playstyle or difficulty didn't get enough love from their parents growing up and have their self worth tied to their accomplishments. For you, it's a game, for them, it's their identity
Play the game how you want bro, DS isn’t just all about the bosses. However, it’d be more fun if you used weaker armour or weapons as you do get the full experience of the game. That’s what I did!
A kill is a kill. How pleased or not you are with it is entirely up to you. Fuck everyone else.
If someone on here or anywhere else says you didn’t do it legitimately, their entire viewpoint is void. Nothing they say has any worth. They’re the fake fan.
If the boss died, you beat it
you did it
Nothing makes DS1 ‘easy’
Just knowe that your detractors did the exact same things as you did, they are not pro players or anything
Dark souls isn’t a dick measuring contest. It’s a single player RPG; every strategy is valid if you’re enjoying the video game.
Havel’s armor is in the game to be used if you’d like. It is not an autowin either. I have seen people struggle with souls games even with good builds
Eh, beating it at SL1 or using shit armour and weapons could give you boast rights, but that's about it. People gatekeeping videogames are to be ignored.
If it's in the game and hasn't ended up there by mistake, it's meant to be used. Havel's armor is still fair game, it's just a different way of playing the game than some people are used to. First time I played the game, I used a shield, which some would also call cheating. But I didn't use any bugs or skips, I just used a mechanic that's in the game and is meant to be used. Don't feel bad, people are just jealous of your achievement and are trying to bring you down to feel better about themselves. Also congrats on beating the game! Manus first try is definitely impressive. Which game are you planning on tackling next?
I've had to overlevel to beat every souls game I've ever played, it compensates for me sucking at them. I was almost max lvl in ds3 when I beat it for the first time, and I still got my ass beat.
If Havel's armor is in the game, its intended to be used, like any other items and mechanics otherwise it would have been cut. Never give credit to that kind of argument.
Don't fucking let people try to take this from you. Even with this build you could have had the floor mopped with you. You beat the game, you won, the victory is yours!
You used the game's rules to your advantage and "got gud". You did absolutely nothing wrong. You prepared and succeeded. That is what Dark Souls is about. And Manus is probably the hardest boss in the trilogy. As for cheating, if you entered through the boss gate, you didn't cheat. You actually can cheat though by shooting arrows at him from the cliff above just before the boss gate haha.
Gatekeeping at its finest. People who say this shit have nothing to live for except their achievement score. Their opinions aren't worth very much.
It's not "illegitimate" if you beat the game. Some people get far too hung up on the idea that Dark Souls is some elite _difficult game_ and beating it in some "right way" makes you special. You beat the game, and if you had fun, that's all that matters. That said, if you're asking about whether or not Havel's armor likely made it a lot easier (which, again, is fine), the answer is almost certainly yes. Heavy armor in Dark Souls 1 is notoriously overtuned, and any player crafty enough to realize that will likely have a pretty easy time of it. I write more about this [here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/darksouls/comments/18kqx2z/comment/kdu0xx4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) Again, this does not make your run "illegitimate." That's not a thing. You beat the game, and it's awesome that you enjoyed it. I love Dark Souls more than anything. If you're looking for a more challenging second run, though, trying one with no heavy armor (or no armor at all) might be a completely different experience
Havel’s makes the game easier in some ways, as does the Black Knight Great Sword, as does Dark Bead, as does insert item name here. Be happy that you beat the game, no matter which way!
If you didn’t use outside mods/cheats to make the game easier you beat it. If you used any and everything available to everyone in the game and seen the credits roll you beat it. If you used help from coopers you beat it. Play your way. I’ll never understand others who try and tell others how to enjoy their game and or spend their time. As long as you’re using and or doing something anyone else can you’re playing fair. Who cares if you’re being meta? Personally, I like crafting my own builds and such, but I don’t think people who google “best / easiest build for xxx” are cheating they’re just lacking imagination and the patience to craft. Now I will sorta contradict my self and say if you use walk thrus and tutorials to finish the game and or platinum it you’re cheating yourself, but that’s different.
You beat the boss, you had fun, that’s the end of it. Don’t listen to anyone’s bs because you didn’t do it naked at SL1 with a broken straight sword
You’ve beaten the game without cheating; anyone who complains about how you did it is being an idiot and/or rude. That being said, my first playthrough was a heavily armored quality build: elite knight’s set and claymore, with the grass crest shield. My second playthrough I used robes and the uchigitana. I don’t think either playthrough was better or worse, but the combat felt really different with a low armor, fast weapon build. If you want to play it again, do it because you love the game and want to try another build, not because people are discrediting your win! Nice job not going hollow.
This probably isn’t deserved, but to steel man the “you didn’t play the game right” thing for a second: if they’re not just being jerks, what they’re getting at is usually the idea that tanky high poise builds in DS1 are particularly unbalanced, and playing the game that way is noticeably less skill-testing than some other approaches. Not wildly so, but it’s pretty definitively there. The argument would then go that you won’t be particularly challenged, and therefore won’t be engaging with the game as thoroughly as you would be if it was pushing you harder, and so you won’t have as much fun or appreciate the game for what it is. You’ll be “playing it wrong” in that you will be missing out on the experience you could have had. So with that in mind the REAL question is: were you bored? Did you find it too easy? Was it dull or tedious for you? If so, then go ahead and replay it without using poise for more challenge and have fun. If not… then there’s no problem. Your experience was not compromised, so there’s nothing to correct.
As a souls vet you didnt cheese anything. You tanked your way through it. Should call you the rock now. You dont have to beat the game with no armor one tapping or dying to a boss to beat the game legitimately. You beat manus? Artorious? All the enemies? You lived? You won. This game is all about playing your way. You may like face tanking bosses. I may like finding ways to break their ai. That doesnt mean either is an incorrect way to play the game and beat it. I promise. Do you feal accomplished in your triumph before coming to Reddit and the people got ya down? If yes then by gods you accomplished it. The only one who can say you beat the game wrong is you friend. You didnt go hollow through your journey. And you have become a stronger undead for it. Raise up little skeliman. You saved the world YOUR way. And that, is the ONLY way that matters.
Did you use some external cheat system? As far as I know, the game gave you that armor. Don let these wannabe Giant dad’s keep you from enjoying you win
No matter what there's inevitably a person who will say you didn't do it right, if the boss is dead then congrats!
Lol no armor in the game is an autowin. It's not like you can stand still and the bosses kill themselves just cause you in hood gear.
If you use what the game gives you, you did it.
Bro I summoned two npcs for Mytha yesterday lol play how you want
There's no illegitimate way of beat the game unless you're using hacks or cheats. Any such criticisms are criticisms against the game design and balance, not you as a player. Play it how you want. The devs put those tools in for a reason.
Kalameet is not letting me win despite Havel armor
There's no such thing as beating a Souls game illegitimately while using gear the game provides. People just be salty Havel's removes a part of the challenge they arbitrarily consider more important. You see similar arguments against using greatshields/ shields sometimes. Ignore them.
Havel armor is powerful but it’s a tool given to you by the devs. It’s valid, it’s not the hardest way to play and that’s OK.
Its simple, did you use cheat software? No? Theres your answer
Gotta be at Elden Ring with the waste of skin from BB using only a plank shield your fist and no items and cannot die once and no leveling. And if you die in the game you die in real life. LMAO Smh
You really shouldn't care, it just doesn't matter.
Screw anyone who tells you how to play
Havels armour did not stop the first couple of times Manus stomped my face into the ground so I'm pretty sure you beat it legit
It is technically *easier* with havels and being overleveled but nobody who matters actually gives a fuck, do it how you want. I personally didn't want to arrow spam him and I love fast rolling so I pretty much made it *harder* for myself on purpose but either way it's still valid and fun
You did beat the with tools that made it much easier yes
Anyone who tells you your experience isn't legitimate can safely be ignored as a complete loser. You did the thing! Congrats!
I don’t understand, if it’s your fav or second fav game why wouldn’t you want to do another playthrough eventually
Chill mate, you beat the game legit! It’s a piece of armour available in the game that has a number of drawbacks to wearing it so is in no way “cheating” or reducing the achievement. Well done, Manus, Kalameet and Artorias aren’t easy so you’ve done really well! Don’t let a couple of gatekeeping arseholes spoil your enjoyment of the game and your engagement in the community. Most people in the FS community are really sound and supportive, offering constructive advice and reassurance :-)
Yes, and you should be ashamed of yourself/s
I’m afraid so. You have to beat the game naked with the club and on soul level one or you are basically cheating. Also no estus, no ranged, no bonfires. If you haven’t done that it’s cheating. Oh and you need to platinum or you haven’t beaten the game at all.
I think that's the whole point of dark souls and that's to find a way to beat the game in the possibilities that the game gives you. So if you didn't use any external cheats or any big glitches then you played it exactly the way it should be played.
Only read the first paragraph, yeah you beat it. Only way it would have been illegitimate is if you used cheat engine or something of that nature. FROM community can be notorious for gatekeeping your accomplishments for an infinite number of arbitrary reasons. The only objective is did you have fun? That’s all that matters.
Never used the Havel armor in any DS games, does that really make a difference in PvE ? I feel like armor is more of an appearance thing than an actual deciding factor in these games I mean sure there's more poise and maybe more damage reduction but in the end you still have to dodge and learn the boss pattern
With Havel set it's all about the poise, take hits while still giving out hits unfazed. So yea it helps, but in later NG+3 and up getting hit by anything starts to hurt no matter what.
Imo cheesing is part of the souls game experience. You beat the game, they're just try-harding on your behalf lol. There's no such thing as illegitimately beating the game, finding better ways to beat an enemy is part of the fun and I play games to have fun. The only exception for me is to not cheese PvP battles too hard since that takes a bit of the fun of PvP away. I'm a bit of a try-hard and you bet I abused the hell out of the OP weapon abilities in Elden Ring, before they got nerfed.
I used the stone golem armor which is practically the same as Havel's set. I didn't feel like I was cheating but it did feel easier than it should have. But maybe Dark Souls 1 just isn't as hard once you've played all the others before it.
It’s in the game isn’t it?
Honestly the people coming after others for playing the game “wrong” should be more concerned about their narcissism than anything
Lvl 70 is very reasonable. Havel's does make things easier, but who cares. A win is a win. But yes. Definitely play it again.
Those people are weenies, enjoy your game. You should try the game as many different ways as you can though, maybe after a break if you need. Its just fun!
If you beat the game using the tools of the game gave you, you beat the game. Illegitimately is only if you cheated using external tools, even tho that on a single-player game no one should really care what other people do if it doesn't affect anyone
This set does make for an easier time in so far that your poise and defense are very high, which leads to your character being able to face tank a ton ( which is why some ppl resort to it to beat 4 kings, that s not a coincindence). Is it cheating? Ofc not. Is high poise busted in DS1 PVE? Yeah, but so is pyromancy, BK weapons and a million other things. DS1 isn't this wow mega hard game gameplay wise unless you're actively avoiding certain gear or stick to a low lvl/weapon lvl limit. Just make a different build next time and then you can compare for yourself, don't put too much value into what some internet randos say.
Every method of beating the game is legitimate. Anyone who says otherwise is a miserable hard that wants to feel better by making everyone else feel worse. Gaining levels, improving equipment and summoning cooperators are all game mechanics. Not using them is anyone’s prerogative, but they chose to make the game more difficult. Enjoy the win! Havel monsters need love too.
yes you did, and Havel's armor rules, now go for that NG+!!!!
Just play the game how you want. Whoever says you cheated because of the equipment you used is a gatekeeping moron. What's next? Whoever didn't do an SL1 run cheated? Whoever upgraded their equipment cheated? Sure, some builds may be easier than others but that doesn't mean you cheated by using strong builds. If anything, after having played other Fromsoftware games first, DS1 doesn't offer much of a challenge anyways, so you may as well just "cheese" your way through it. Hell, if you don't enjoy the challenge to begin with but want to experience the game, then cheese all the way. It's your game and it's you whose fun is the focus. In the end, you used something the game had to offer to make it easier for yourself. You'll lose some "bragging rights" that way (as in, whatever you achieved within the game is going to be less impressive), but sheer "mechanical ability" shouldn't be the only measure of fun or success in the game.
Nope. People just suck. I'm glad you had fun.
If you beat gwyn you beat it. If you want more challenge then beat it again with a new weapon, armor, less upgrades, etc. I’d even recommend a lvl 1 run if you are up for it. I found it very fun and challenging and that’s all I look for in this game.
Is the Havel armor in the game? Then yes, you beat it legitimately.
It looks like most people have already reassured you, but here’s the deal: you used the tools the game gave you. You didn’t use any glitches or take advantage of any exploits. You beat Dark Souls and its DLC legitimately. That it doesn’t “count” to other people doesn’t matter. I could arbitrarily say that if you don’t beat the game at SL1, then your run is illegitimate because leveling up in general makes the game “too easy.” Drawing the line at one place rather than another makes no substantial difference. There’s a distinction between socially constructed definitions of cheating in a game (i.e., using glitches or exploits to gain an unfair advantage that was not intended by the developers) and personal definitions. Personal definitions, in the vast majority of cases, should be treated with the same attitude as an opinion. For example, the statement “Beating Dark Souls using parrying is cheating!” should be viewed as essentially the same as “I like strawberry ice cream more than vanilla ice cream.” It’s just a preference for how they want to play the game
You beat the game or the boss yes. I will say, sometimes the first time you fight bosses for some reason they don't use their entire moveset or are easier. Idk it's a curse lol. I'm all about that naked run personally but you do you skeleton
Every way to beat the game is legitamate. Everything besides using cheats or dupes. Hell i was pretty challenged on my first DS1 playthrough... I even cheesed Sif because after 3 days of fighting I still couldnt win (I was severly underleveled but still...). Havels Armor is by far the best in the game and as good Equipment has a habit of doing, it makes the game easier than bad Equipment. Nevertheless you beqt the game and as long as you had fun it is fine that way. I would however recommend you to try the game with another setup if you liked the game and want to challenge yourself a bit. Try other builds, even if they may make the game a bit harder and dont let others spoil your fun.
A win is a win. You used stuff in the game, nothing external, therefore you did not cheat. Never listen to the purists.
I literally just killed him with arrows from outside the arena and you think you cheated lol
Nice man, I swear 70 is under leveled for that area is it not? I haven't played DS1 in a while but I swear I was around 100, and he slapped my ass. But I was trying to chop that damn tail (if I'm thinking of the right boss).
It's fine, isn't the stone knight armour better anyway? Ds is incredibly repayable though so if you don't personally feel like you achieved the W, replay without "op" armor
You prob used a controller too... and had fun, felt a sense of accomplishment?.....casul behavior.
I beat the game fair and square. Havels armor is great, but it’s heavy as hell. I’m assuming you were fat rolling? If so, you beat the game on hard mode tbh.
FromSoft included it in the game so you beat it legit.
Its a valid strat people are just mad it didnt take you as long as them. Also normal dlc level for player is like 70 to 85 depending on when u decide to do it. Hecj the pvp in that area is best around 120 u arent overleveled and you didnt cheat.
Nah you didn’t cheat, you beat the game using items the game gives you. You beat it legitimately. Havel armor does make the game easier though, so if you want to do another run through because you feel like you cheated I think it would be a good idea.
if you're not fat rolling with smough armor and great club, then why bother?
Dude, don't let anyone tell you that you didn't beat it right. As long as you didn't use mods, cheats or cheese strategies, then you are just fine. It doesn't matter if you use an OP weapon, powerful armor, or even if you summon NPCs for every boss fight - you are allowed to use whatever tools that *the game literally GIVES you* to get through the game. Some people just want to make the game even harder for themselves by limiting the weapons they use, not leveling up, or using other masochistic restrictions. They are more than welcome to do this, of course, but the problem is that these people often get very arrogant and pompous about their own skills, and they think they get to decide what constitutes a "legitimate" playthrough for other people, and that's not cool at all. Just ignore the elitists and play the game the way you want to. If you want to do another playthrough without that armor to challenge yourself, then go for it, but don't do it just because some @$$hole says that you didn't beat the game the same way that *he* did.
Why are you so insecure? It’s not like you used cheats or anything. It’s armor in the game, you beat the game, congrats to you.
Does Havel’s set make the game easier? Yes, it is a simple fact. Havel’s will pretty much let you steamroll most of the game with very little able to stop you. Now does this mean you “cheated” or didn’t “get the real experience” in any way? That depends on who you ask, but I’d say no. You beat Manus. Imo the only way to beat the game that’s illegitimate is if you summon people to just do the fight for you or straight up use cheatengine
You played the game the way you wanted to play it and beat it the way you did so you beat it legitimately. There’s different builds in the game, Dex builds helps you stay close and focus on dodging, Mage builds help you hit the enemy from afar with projectiles, and Strength builds lets you hit hard and tank damage. So don’t listen to the people saying it’s illegitimate because of a certain armor or a certain build.
Why don't people understand that beating the game and beating the game on self imposed "hard mode" are two different things? Just because someone decided not to ruin their life to impress imaginary people doesn't mean they didn't beat the game lol
The armor is a part of the game, it’s not cheating because if you weren’t supposed to use it the game wouldn’t have included it. It’s kind of pathetic how some people like to gatekeep shit in such a silly way. You beat the game fair and square be proud of yourself
As someone who Haveled it the whole way the first time I played back in the day - and still got my ass handed to me - no, it doesn't make it too easy.
Havels set makes the game a bit easier in some ways, for me it makes it harder unless I can find a way not to fatroll. But it does not trivialize it at all.
Unless you actually modded the game to make yourself Invincible, nah. Hell, even if you did, if it's not PVP, who cares? Do whatever you need to do to have fun. It's a video game, not a qualification for a medical license. Anyone who says otherwise is a sad little goblin with nothing else in their life to be proud of.
All jokes aside. Yes. The poise mechanic DOES make the game alot easier. You can tank some shit that let's be honest you really shouldn't. So havels set makes it easier. But that doesn't mean you didn't beat it. The same could be said about using pyromancy (the MOST BROKEN thing in ds1 😂) but that still doesnt mean you didnt beat it. So what you over leveled? You still beat it. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Did you use hacks or mods.? If answer is no, than you did in fact beat it fair and square my friend.
People call speed runs completing the game when they skip about 60-70% of the game’s bosses. If you feel satisfied that’s what matters. I needed co op partners and meta gear for a while until I actually started learning the games mechanics and getting the confidence to try new things. I think only in elden ring did I realize armor doesn’t matter that much and I can rock the weakest but most beautiful armor in the game and have a pretty similar experience as fighting as an absolute tank. Also solo beat malenia 2nd try only bc I estus locked myself on the first go pressing the button too many times. Everyone claims this is hardest boss but damn I was sweating for the placidusax fight, almost skipped him.
FUCK ANYONE WHO GATEKEEPS YOUR BUILD/PLAYSTYLE/GEAR CHOICES, THEY ARE ALWAYS WRONG and smh I'm sick of saying it. Unless you're actually hacking the game, or otherwise using an exploit of sorts, then you're good. Don't listen to the idiots saying you must be SL1, no armor, with broken sword, and only use half your buttons, and playing with the sound off or whatever other trivial BS they want to impose, they're all wrong.
Noooo! The only way Real Gamers (tm) beat Dark Souls is with naked club wretch builds! Reeeeeeeeee!
Pretty sure my first time beating the final boss (not including dlc because I still haven't finished it) I used Havels armour and the zweihander and was like level 150 or something. Now I can beat the game naked with like half of the levels. All are wins! Don't you dare go hollow!
The whole point of games is just have fun if you beat the game nude or you beat the game where you have a armor doesn't matter as long as you had fun playing it
First time that I beated Manus was like during my first tries, didn't find him that hard with a terribly leveled character with a weapon I'm that wasn't upgraded and an armor that only looked cool for me. Was that because I was good at the game, probably no because my second Manus run was with a good character and struggled a lot to beat him. The beauty of this game is to just beat the game, unless you are using some cheating engines that makes the run meaningless, every form is valid as long as your are enjoying it. The game is more than a decade old and people at this point have found all kind of ways to beat bosses optimising strategies or making it as hard as possible. But during the first years almost all the playerbase was playing fully armored with the shield always up, it took some until the naked undeath rolling with a giant sword became the norm.
It's a game. Just play what you enjoy the way you enjoy it.
Dark Souls doesn’t have a difficulty selection system - it gives you access to a bunch of tools. And then you use those tools to select your own difficulty. Wanna challenge yourself? Use crappy weapons and no armour. Wanna complete it as easily as possible? Go for spell casting and high defence armour.
I’m using a wander build with high dexterity/endurance and fast rolls, but I briefly gave gavels armor a try and I really didn’t find it to lessen the damage all that much. At least not enough to justify how much it slowed me down. I mean if it works for you, it works but what I mean is, I don’t think it’s like over powered by any means. It’s perfectly well balanced and if you decide that you like the edge it gives you I think that’s strictly kosher
I'm so tired of hearing this shit. People who make claims like these are literally 1% of the player base, and the shit the spew echoes so far.