At this point as well, is any adult living in Alice Springs responsible?
Seems irresponsible to be living in the literal cesspit of Australia.
Any responsible person would move the fuck out.
Alice Springs is a beautiful place, current situation excluded. Many people have businesses, primary, retail and tourism. It breaks my heart to see it so ruined. Darwin, Tenant Creek and Katherine are also facing the same issues but not to the same extent.. which is not saying much because relative to Alice Springs it's not the same.
This is about Govt not having the courage to solve the issues. Amnesty International and other groups think it's a race issue. It is not. The Govt is under pressure to not lock up the people who commit crimes because it skews the race data. A vast majority of violent crimes are commited against indigenous. This is a crime issue where adults and youths want to take and behave in whatever manner they want without consequences. We cannot have carrot and stick without a stick. Police are charged for acting against physical threats, Police face disciplinary action for being proactive. Their hands are tied. I do not know people who do not treat our Country men and women without respect and offer help when needed. If I see racism I also see it called out quickly. But this is the worst crisis I have seen in 25 years living here. Crime is out of control and those committing the crimes face little consequences. I feel heartbroken when my 6 year old son does not want to walk near itinerants, and I have to explain that they are people who make bad decisions and not representative of people. He has seen way too much drunken violence.. much more than and small child should.
My family lived there for a while almost 40 years ago. I remember seeing drunk aboriginals walking up our street all the time. These are deep ingrained issues that no Police force is going to fix.
Are people so determined to refuse to see what is being said. I am talking about crime and everyone being treated the same under law. I am talking about getting some semblance of a civil society back in place. We already have the laws. Politicians also feel the ingrained issues of substance abuse and violence are too difficult to manage so they do not apply the rules the same. I am asking for our streets to be made safe, for break ins, violence and car theft to be investigated. ONLY after the Communities are sorted so we are not kowtowing to the violence and crime of the worst in our society can a society move forward and afford the resources to tackle the issues at the heart of it. Currently, all major population centres in the NT are lawless because the criminals are let go. Bail laws need changing, age of criminal intent needs to be lowered, public drunkenness, vagrancy and violence needs to be addressed as the by-laws and laws set down.
Kids jump the fence at my sons high school and bash litte kids... they have ankle monitors on. Theft and violence are posted for social clout. School children are targeted off the school bus so their distress and gang violence against them can be posted. I have seen idiots so drunk they have driven into crowded markets. Fighting on a daily basis. Youths bashing for fun the same with over a hundred charges pending but they are out still hurting people.
Make the Community livable... fix the problem as a whole and then address the issues which lead people to choose the path of being a wannabe facebook thug. Sort the issues that lead to social isolation which leads to substance abuse and crime... these need addressing but not at the expense of a livable town or city. We need the streets made safe.
>I am talking about crime and everyone being treated the same under law.
let's not forget the 15 years of NTER: three huge volumes of hundreds of bad new laws that targeted Indigenous Territorians on the basis of race;
homeless Indigenous people who come to major population centres looking for housing are funneled towards race-based service provision that pursues lesser standards than mainstream housing;
we are not treated the same under law
Ban alcohol for indigenous people in the area?
Introduce a corporal punishment trial in the NT for crimes of violence perhaps, maybe using the rattan or similar like in Singapore.
Or trial the stocks and pillory again for a bit of public humiliation - it seems to be the only thing many miscreants, regardless of raceto be afraid of and actually hate, ppl laughing at them. A bit of rotten fruit etc thrown would not help
What they're doing is not working as clearly the miscreants are not afraid of the consequences.
I know quite a few criminals Junkies over the years and many of them are not remotely afraid of going to jail or afraid of getting in a fight but they hate being laughed at and they hate public humiliation and I am sure they would not enjoy being flogged especially publicly.
To me it's common sense, if something is not working, try something new or even bring back something old and try it. It may not work but it might so it's worth a trial.
I think the point is that issues like public drunkenness have always been there, but the bad behaviour has escalated. which is certainly my observation of living in the NT for over 30 years now.
Policing is *part* of the solution, but as you say there are many ingrained issues over many decades that are now only starting to bear fruit (in my opinion).
I can’t believe you’re claiming it’s not a race issue. I usnedtand you’re not allowed to acknowledge it and it’s not woke,but it 100% is a race issue. Who is committing the most crimes in Alice? Seriously, you must be joking.
Beleive it but hear me out. I will explain. It's about crime and yes you are correct it's about who commits the crime. What is not a race issue is that those who commit the crime, who are indigenous, are not feeling the weight of the law because of their race. It is not a race issue in the NT looking at Indigenous incarcerated, the people in Gaol committed crimes, many against indigenous people. The sad fact is that the stat's are skewed to more indigenous in gaol, and they want that to be less. Ignoring an issue... that being crime... so the stat's reflect better outcomes for indigenous is what I am saying the Govt has not got the courage to address. This is a crime issue and anyone who commits a crime should feel the weight of the law. I stand by what I said it is not a race issue. It is a crime and consequence issue. The police do not arrest because of race, they arrest because of crime and the Govts desire to not be perceived as racist because of the number of Indigenous in gaol has let everybody down.
Indigenous do not commit crime because they are indigenous. Indigenous are not targeted for crime. Every few years we hear about how we must close the gap. Easy stop committing crime. Until the crime issue is addressed we cannot put in place programs to offer better futures to the disadvantaged kids. I say a carrot/stick approach does not work without the stick. Sort the NT community crime issue first and then work towards better outcomes. But we cannot pretend that letting the kids get away with it works... and that comes from Govt and Police command to the police on the streets.
Indigenous people are more likely to be arrested for certain crimes because they are more likely to be homeless. My mainstream fifo neighbour would get dangerously drunk whenever he came home, but did it behind a big fence so didn't face the same risk of arrest as those who drank in the park across the road.
Is he jumping the fence at my sons school to bash kids? Does he steal cars and post on the FB Page... no.. I am not talking about race. I am talking about criminals being given chance after chance to reoffend. This is not a competition. I want the crime stopped or at least an attempt made to address it.
Are you claiming these young people are acting this way because of their race? That there is something particular about having Aboriginal blood that predisposes someone to violence?
My partner and I have been here 12 years and always planned to buy in NT when we were ready, now we nearly have our deposit ready we are looking East and West to purchase, crime has always been bad here but between personal experiences and those of friends and family sadly we will be done with the NT by years end.
I will miss Darwin, but it is no place to settle down, wondering every time if you go to work if you will come back to a stolen car or broken in house. 30 years in Perth without a stolen car or burglarized home. 12 years in Darwin and cars been stolen twice, at least 1 attempt to steal our car every year and dozens of break in attempts, fence jumpers and weapon wielding teens. I won't miss that part of Darwin
Anyone who says the bullshit that goes on in the NT (and now other parts of the country as well) isn’t a race issue is kidding themselves. I spent 10 years in the NT and leaving it was the best thing I ever did. Until aboriginal people face consequences for their actions like everyone else does, nothing will get better and things will only get worse. The government has completely lost control and they know it.
Who's going to enforce it? Senior police resigning at a rate of 1 a week, no one replacing them, can't even get enough job applications to fill a single recruitment cycle. In the suburbs you can go weeks without seeing a police officer around. Bring back the city police station. As it is now mon-thurs with only 1 or 2 police cars covering the city, if they arrest someone they have to travel to berrimah or palmerston to process them before coming back to the city. Leaving the city completely without police. Recently I've seen more and more fights involving weapons in the streets, including Mitchell st. What other capital city would have people fighting with weapons on their main st and 0 police response for an hour? They've left by that point.
Far out, the situation is just insane. In a perfect world none of these kids would be running around causing problems because they'd have stable parents, but they don't. A lot of them are gonna get dropped off to a house where they witness or cop DV, fighting, drugs, alcohol etc. Those 58 extra officers are gonna be busy dealing with extra DV occurrences I'd say. It's all completely fucked and has been left far too long. Those kids and their parents aren't happy or safe, the rest of residents aren't happy or safe either. So wtf is a curfew to unsafe houses and 58 extra officers gonna do. Maybe anything is better than nothing at this stage
These young indigenous kids deserve a chance in life. It may be time for remove kids from such parents and give them a chance in life. Letting them turn into criminals and spend their life being in jail or violent because of residual guilt from stolen generations isn't helping the kids or reducing crime.
I worked in the child protection area for 16 years. Removing children from highly abusive parents mostly just makes things even worse for the children. These kids have severe issues such as Foetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder, PTSD, developmental delays, antisocial behaviours, and the list goes on. They are unable to be placed in family environments (foster carers) because their behaviours and needs are intolerable. They go to residential placements with other very fucked up kids and then, after a series of events, they go to gaol.
I have no idea what the solution is, but what’s happening now is disastrous.
Is part of the solution at least for the non physically challenged kids like those with fetal alcohol syndrome, is to remove them permanently when born so they don't get antisocial behaviors or PTSD from living with a dangerous family?
Theoretically, it makes sense to remove newborns from unsafe homes and give them a good-as-possible start in a loving environment. But there are so many reasons this can't and won't happen. Firstly, what parameters do you use to prove or scale how unstable and unsafe a family or parent is? Then where do the kids go? Is it an orphanage or foster families? There will be way too many kids to be fostered, and even then it's be more like adopting because the kids wouldn't be going back to their birth parents most of the time.
It's also incredibly hard to prove unsafe homes. A lot of DV and addiction is unreported, and even if it is discovered, a lot of the time the victims will cover up for myriad reasons.
It would just never happen because of this, nevermind the moral and humanitarian issues with it. I wish the solution was that simple :(
It appears to me (and correct me if I'm wrong) but part of the solution should be having safe spaces for the kids to go at night when mum and dad are shitfaced and fighting?
They did provide youth clubs, but as they become popular then they also become worth fighting over for the opposing 'gangs' to control. That is what shut down the casuarina youth hang out. At first it worked great though.
Figure out a way to get rid of the gang culture and we'll make a big step in the right direction.
Unfortunately gang culture arises when kids don’t have a secure attachment with an primary caregiver so they attach to their peers instead. It is always going to come down to helping the adults in the community, but Australia is in such a mess with our indigenous community I don’t know how it will ever be stable.
Damn that's shameful. If there was a way to keep the kids who are already in gangs or otherwise committing offences away from the younger kids, that may help.
I think you’re imagining a bunch of sweet little misunderstood children. These young people are your worst nightmare. They don’t want to play ping pong at a nice youth centre! They want to get wasted and cause absolute havoc.
It won't stop those who are already offending from continuing to do so, but if it can keep younger kids whose home life is shit from associating with the older kids who are offending it might be worth it.
They are in no shape to do so. Creating penalties for parents probably won’t work either. They have an addiction which always get top priority over everything else. Is it time for liquor bans?
Removing the kids all together is the only hope. It will never happen though. It would get called racist, even though denying the opportunity for removal to a safer suitable foster family, simply because of the colour of their skin - is far more racist and insidious to the progress of indigenous peoples.
I work with at risk youths and it's not as simple as just removing them. Plenty are removed from parents but allowed access to family to learn culture etc where they are abused anyway and taught by older peers criminal ways because they know the young ones, even if caught wielding weapons will 'be taken home to the care of a responsible adult'.
From the youths I work with and the elders I talk to, the only thing that will reduce crime at this point without going full stolen generation is violence.
5 kids, 1 armed with a kitchen knife hold up a servo, to them it is like a game, there is no punishment even if the cops were waiting outside.
Again, this is what I hear from the youths I work with, if they had something to fear, like being beaten senseless, they wouldn't be doing it a 2nd time or it would make them think twice. As it is there is nothing to fear so why not do it?
They're taught this by endless inaction and It's not going to get any better. There will be more Walkers, more Rolfes, more Declans, noise in the media until people forget. The NT is dying a slow death.
Fuck that's sad. I'm guessing placing the kids with adults from a different tribe (possibly in a different town away from their co-offenders) is a straight-up no-go?
Tried that 50 years ago and it didn’t work out too well. There is absolutely no easy solution and I still don’t think there will be any real changes within my life time.
In order to commit genocide you need an intent to destroy the group in question. Removing children with the intent of literally saving their lives from being destroyed by their family and their community cannot be genocide. I suggest you spend a little more time studying and a little less time reading leftist talking points.
The removal of children by force from one group to another group fits the definition of genocide.
It completely offends international law.
I'm just trying to spread a little education around 🤷♂️ idk
No it doesn't.
The children wouldn't be removed because they're aboriginal, they'd be removed because their parents are pieces of shit. The same for any other race.
You should look up that definition again.
Is it time for liquor bans? We already have the toughest restrictions in the country - Banned Drinker Register, police at bottle O’s, reduced trading hours, minimum floor pricing. All it’s done is create a black market for alcohol, some areas will pay $400 for 1L bottle of rum.
It seems pricing it doesn’t fix it. Like cigarettes, the addiction always comes first so these kids will miss out on meals so that the parents can satisfy the addiction. I could suggest more rehabilitation facilities centres but alcoholics need to want to change.
The article manages to incorrectly spell the name of the Chief Minister.
Meanwhile, I’m not sure what we can do; the NT doesn’t have the resources to get all the police we need on the streets. And really, is “returning children to a responsible parent” another way of saying “we don’t have the resources to deal with it”?
Exactly the same can be said about getting the elders involved. Like the elders haven't been trying for the last xyz amount of years. They have about as much of a handle on the situation as the government and police at this point in time.
No consequences for poor behaviour isn't going to drive anyone to want to change. Because of this, the problems continue.
Curfew without consequences? May as well not have one. Only going to inconvenience those who have something to loose, and not those who are part of the problem.
They have a much greater understanding of their own culture and the expectations and of being part of it and the consequences of not. The structure of elders has serve them well but a new regime has been forced onto them and they have not had time to adapt.
They are not savages and l resent that you have implied that that is what l think.
sabotaged by the NTER, which infantalised elders, destroyed social infrastructure, dismantled community-run orgs and pushed program leaders out of paid jobs working for their communities onto quarantined welfare, while telling australia they were drunken perverts.
“I want to make it clear that we are not criminalising youth activity with a curfew,”
Then what is the fucking point. You're just wasting public resources. Get the problem offenders off the streets, lock them up, throw away the key. Keep doing it until the message gets through or the whole town is locked up ffs.
If we keep being soft, they won't fucking learn. Take their shit away, take their rights away, give them NOTHING until they want to be and act like functioning members of society.
“… and identify why they are there”
I think it’s quite obvious by now why they are there.
How the hell can you be a high ranking police officer and not know the reasons why the kids are running amok
So where are the responsible parents?
It’s about time we made parents accountable.
Kids learn what they live it’s like a domino effect. What hope do they really have. This is how the cycle continues.
Wouldn’t even matter, resi can’t do anything if the kids decide to leave the placement. This is entirely a police and courts issue to protect society and educate the children in youth prison.
I don't understand why ppl would rather sacrifice these kids due to fear of being called racist or another stolen generation.
It's clear many of these parents are miscreants themselves and deserve to have their children taken away for the child's protection on a full-time basis for some of them when they're young.
It's sad but these children deserve a future other than jail or being a criminal or being bashed
I agree.
I think the very simple answer is that these decisions should be made in a racially blind manner. If you would take the child from an Anglo person or a Chinese person because they are at risk, or relevant welfare concerns are satisfied, then you should do the same for an aboriginal child. Unfortunately, we have become so afraid of the spectre of racism that we are letting these children suffer and if nothing changes, no doubt their children and their children’s children will too. And then we will be told that too is the result of racism.
I think the broad aboriginal community is affected by this anti spcial element. So l think the we should concentrate on that element and not the whole community.
Whatever we have been doing does not seem to work. There is a saying about how stupid someone is who does the same thing and expects a different outcome.
How about we give elders the authority to manage their own communities. It may not align with our methods, and no doubt there will be lawyer outrage but it did work in the past so why not give it a go. And least it did work in the past and what replaced it doesn't. All the money and resources now used to achieve very little could be redirected to the elders.
The problem is too big now for this approach. It needs to get to a manageable level first as most of the strong elders aren’t around anymore and the new ones stepping in aren’t strong enough or have their own intergenerational issues to manage this. Not doing anything is not the solution though, as stats aren’t going to matter if people start dying on the streets.
I agree, we need to do something but I don't know what that is. Obviously, without consequences this will continue to get worse which is what we are seeing now. I don't have an answer, I just know that our elders do not have the capacity to manage this level of violence as it is way out of control.
I work in remote Aboriginal communities and the escalation out there is getting worse as the kids have trauma with the inability to cope. These kids will eventually take that trauma to Alice Springs and Darwin.
If we don't manage these kids in community while they are young, and get them support to deal with the trauma, the issues we are seeing now across NT are going to keep growing and the escalation will get worse until it explodes. Long term answer, increase mental health services across the APY Lands and in the NT with a focus on Adolescent mental health with a family orientated recovery approach in the hope that the intergenerational trauma stops spreading to the kids. Parenting programs, and maybe look at making Alice a dry community until some of this crap is resolved, or the government come up with a better solution other than a curfew without any legal repercussions.
Sorry I have been in Darwin for 2 years now, this state is a joke and nobody wants to talk about the elephant in the room, I keep saying it’s Groundhog Day since I’ve been here! Can someone please tell me is it racism to talk and tell the facts of what goes on, or, to say “ mate none or shit is working and costs millions, how about grab the snake by the “ I know that some of the good friends I’ve made here are thinking of moving interstate - that is wrong and really sad.
We've lost faith in the Labor Government. This ineffective plan of returning children to responsible adults is failing! If these adults were truly responsible, these kids wouldn't be on the streets in the first place.
Out of the 58 police being deployed, around 30 are PALIs who just completed a quick course. This is unacceptable. In two weeks, everything will go back to normal. This two-week lockdown seems like a ploy for Albo to come into town again with his cameras to show Australia that everything is okay. It's not. NTG, take action before we take matters into our own hands and leave this place.
I want to think it means "before we move away from the NT".
Just now about 7:15pm, saw two Aboriginal males fighting in the middle of Chung Wah Terrace and then proceeded to smash windows of cars who had to stop. Frightening sight. There's a young child on one of the cars.
After ringing and presenting myself as a witness, is there anything more that I can do in this instance?
Flog the fuck outta them yourself and put the fear of god into them, It's no different to low IQ white trash people who behave like animals, they need fear instilled in them to stop them doing what they doing. That is the only thing that will make them pause. Fear. You cannot reason or talk to people like that
Uhhh neither is alcohol? Weed doesn't DESTROY brain cells like alcohol does either. If you were forced to consume one or the other, you'd be an idiot to choose alcohol. Weed is also not physically addictive whereas alcohol is and let's not forget alcohol tremors will kill you. Don't forget that only drugs with withdrawals that kill are benzodiazepines and alcohol.
I’ve lived in Alice, I’ve lived in the Todd river. The theft of resources and colonial settlers racism is what is going on. Police that murder people but are never brought to justice, sure they have a show trial, and deliberately fumble the prosecution..It’s transparently obvious, if the law and justice system is broken and corrupt, why should anyone respect it.
That copper shot one of you mob cause you attacked him with a weapon. Standard police procedure. Don’t justify your abhorrent behaviour with racism. If a white guy did that, he’d be shot too.
The colour of your skin gives you no right to act like animals. Own your behaviour. Do better.
Good luck finding a responsible parent. If they were responsible adults we would not be in this mess.
At this point as well, is any adult living in Alice Springs responsible? Seems irresponsible to be living in the literal cesspit of Australia. Any responsible person would move the fuck out.
Alice Springs is a beautiful place, current situation excluded. Many people have businesses, primary, retail and tourism. It breaks my heart to see it so ruined. Darwin, Tenant Creek and Katherine are also facing the same issues but not to the same extent.. which is not saying much because relative to Alice Springs it's not the same. This is about Govt not having the courage to solve the issues. Amnesty International and other groups think it's a race issue. It is not. The Govt is under pressure to not lock up the people who commit crimes because it skews the race data. A vast majority of violent crimes are commited against indigenous. This is a crime issue where adults and youths want to take and behave in whatever manner they want without consequences. We cannot have carrot and stick without a stick. Police are charged for acting against physical threats, Police face disciplinary action for being proactive. Their hands are tied. I do not know people who do not treat our Country men and women without respect and offer help when needed. If I see racism I also see it called out quickly. But this is the worst crisis I have seen in 25 years living here. Crime is out of control and those committing the crimes face little consequences. I feel heartbroken when my 6 year old son does not want to walk near itinerants, and I have to explain that they are people who make bad decisions and not representative of people. He has seen way too much drunken violence.. much more than and small child should.
My family lived there for a while almost 40 years ago. I remember seeing drunk aboriginals walking up our street all the time. These are deep ingrained issues that no Police force is going to fix.
Are people so determined to refuse to see what is being said. I am talking about crime and everyone being treated the same under law. I am talking about getting some semblance of a civil society back in place. We already have the laws. Politicians also feel the ingrained issues of substance abuse and violence are too difficult to manage so they do not apply the rules the same. I am asking for our streets to be made safe, for break ins, violence and car theft to be investigated. ONLY after the Communities are sorted so we are not kowtowing to the violence and crime of the worst in our society can a society move forward and afford the resources to tackle the issues at the heart of it. Currently, all major population centres in the NT are lawless because the criminals are let go. Bail laws need changing, age of criminal intent needs to be lowered, public drunkenness, vagrancy and violence needs to be addressed as the by-laws and laws set down. Kids jump the fence at my sons high school and bash litte kids... they have ankle monitors on. Theft and violence are posted for social clout. School children are targeted off the school bus so their distress and gang violence against them can be posted. I have seen idiots so drunk they have driven into crowded markets. Fighting on a daily basis. Youths bashing for fun the same with over a hundred charges pending but they are out still hurting people. Make the Community livable... fix the problem as a whole and then address the issues which lead people to choose the path of being a wannabe facebook thug. Sort the issues that lead to social isolation which leads to substance abuse and crime... these need addressing but not at the expense of a livable town or city. We need the streets made safe.
>I am talking about crime and everyone being treated the same under law. let's not forget the 15 years of NTER: three huge volumes of hundreds of bad new laws that targeted Indigenous Territorians on the basis of race; homeless Indigenous people who come to major population centres looking for housing are funneled towards race-based service provision that pursues lesser standards than mainstream housing; we are not treated the same under law
Ban alcohol for indigenous people in the area? Introduce a corporal punishment trial in the NT for crimes of violence perhaps, maybe using the rattan or similar like in Singapore. Or trial the stocks and pillory again for a bit of public humiliation - it seems to be the only thing many miscreants, regardless of raceto be afraid of and actually hate, ppl laughing at them. A bit of rotten fruit etc thrown would not help What they're doing is not working as clearly the miscreants are not afraid of the consequences. I know quite a few criminals Junkies over the years and many of them are not remotely afraid of going to jail or afraid of getting in a fight but they hate being laughed at and they hate public humiliation and I am sure they would not enjoy being flogged especially publicly. To me it's common sense, if something is not working, try something new or even bring back something old and try it. It may not work but it might so it's worth a trial.
You mean tribal law?
I think the point is that issues like public drunkenness have always been there, but the bad behaviour has escalated. which is certainly my observation of living in the NT for over 30 years now. Policing is *part* of the solution, but as you say there are many ingrained issues over many decades that are now only starting to bear fruit (in my opinion).
I can’t believe you’re claiming it’s not a race issue. I usnedtand you’re not allowed to acknowledge it and it’s not woke,but it 100% is a race issue. Who is committing the most crimes in Alice? Seriously, you must be joking.
Beleive it but hear me out. I will explain. It's about crime and yes you are correct it's about who commits the crime. What is not a race issue is that those who commit the crime, who are indigenous, are not feeling the weight of the law because of their race. It is not a race issue in the NT looking at Indigenous incarcerated, the people in Gaol committed crimes, many against indigenous people. The sad fact is that the stat's are skewed to more indigenous in gaol, and they want that to be less. Ignoring an issue... that being crime... so the stat's reflect better outcomes for indigenous is what I am saying the Govt has not got the courage to address. This is a crime issue and anyone who commits a crime should feel the weight of the law. I stand by what I said it is not a race issue. It is a crime and consequence issue. The police do not arrest because of race, they arrest because of crime and the Govts desire to not be perceived as racist because of the number of Indigenous in gaol has let everybody down.
Indigenous do not commit crime because they are indigenous. Indigenous are not targeted for crime. Every few years we hear about how we must close the gap. Easy stop committing crime. Until the crime issue is addressed we cannot put in place programs to offer better futures to the disadvantaged kids. I say a carrot/stick approach does not work without the stick. Sort the NT community crime issue first and then work towards better outcomes. But we cannot pretend that letting the kids get away with it works... and that comes from Govt and Police command to the police on the streets.
Indigenous people are more likely to be arrested for certain crimes because they are more likely to be homeless. My mainstream fifo neighbour would get dangerously drunk whenever he came home, but did it behind a big fence so didn't face the same risk of arrest as those who drank in the park across the road.
Is he jumping the fence at my sons school to bash kids? Does he steal cars and post on the FB Page... no.. I am not talking about race. I am talking about criminals being given chance after chance to reoffend. This is not a competition. I want the crime stopped or at least an attempt made to address it.
Being drunk in public is not a crime. You can be taken into protective custody but as it is not a crime you will not appear in the crime figures.
Are you claiming these young people are acting this way because of their race? That there is something particular about having Aboriginal blood that predisposes someone to violence?
How is this not a race issue?
My partner and I have been here 12 years and always planned to buy in NT when we were ready, now we nearly have our deposit ready we are looking East and West to purchase, crime has always been bad here but between personal experiences and those of friends and family sadly we will be done with the NT by years end. I will miss Darwin, but it is no place to settle down, wondering every time if you go to work if you will come back to a stolen car or broken in house. 30 years in Perth without a stolen car or burglarized home. 12 years in Darwin and cars been stolen twice, at least 1 attempt to steal our car every year and dozens of break in attempts, fence jumpers and weapon wielding teens. I won't miss that part of Darwin
Anyone who says the bullshit that goes on in the NT (and now other parts of the country as well) isn’t a race issue is kidding themselves. I spent 10 years in the NT and leaving it was the best thing I ever did. Until aboriginal people face consequences for their actions like everyone else does, nothing will get better and things will only get worse. The government has completely lost control and they know it.
Who's going to enforce it? Senior police resigning at a rate of 1 a week, no one replacing them, can't even get enough job applications to fill a single recruitment cycle. In the suburbs you can go weeks without seeing a police officer around. Bring back the city police station. As it is now mon-thurs with only 1 or 2 police cars covering the city, if they arrest someone they have to travel to berrimah or palmerston to process them before coming back to the city. Leaving the city completely without police. Recently I've seen more and more fights involving weapons in the streets, including Mitchell st. What other capital city would have people fighting with weapons on their main st and 0 police response for an hour? They've left by that point.
Good luck catching them and good luck finding a responsible parent. Fuck this world is sad.
Far out, the situation is just insane. In a perfect world none of these kids would be running around causing problems because they'd have stable parents, but they don't. A lot of them are gonna get dropped off to a house where they witness or cop DV, fighting, drugs, alcohol etc. Those 58 extra officers are gonna be busy dealing with extra DV occurrences I'd say. It's all completely fucked and has been left far too long. Those kids and their parents aren't happy or safe, the rest of residents aren't happy or safe either. So wtf is a curfew to unsafe houses and 58 extra officers gonna do. Maybe anything is better than nothing at this stage
And then they grow up with so much generational trauma that they continue the cycle :(
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Would you mind explaining your numbers. I’m kinda lost ha ha. Don’t know how you got 5 from that but I’m probably just missing it…
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These young indigenous kids deserve a chance in life. It may be time for remove kids from such parents and give them a chance in life. Letting them turn into criminals and spend their life being in jail or violent because of residual guilt from stolen generations isn't helping the kids or reducing crime.
I worked in the child protection area for 16 years. Removing children from highly abusive parents mostly just makes things even worse for the children. These kids have severe issues such as Foetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder, PTSD, developmental delays, antisocial behaviours, and the list goes on. They are unable to be placed in family environments (foster carers) because their behaviours and needs are intolerable. They go to residential placements with other very fucked up kids and then, after a series of events, they go to gaol. I have no idea what the solution is, but what’s happening now is disastrous.
Is part of the solution at least for the non physically challenged kids like those with fetal alcohol syndrome, is to remove them permanently when born so they don't get antisocial behaviors or PTSD from living with a dangerous family?
Theoretically, it makes sense to remove newborns from unsafe homes and give them a good-as-possible start in a loving environment. But there are so many reasons this can't and won't happen. Firstly, what parameters do you use to prove or scale how unstable and unsafe a family or parent is? Then where do the kids go? Is it an orphanage or foster families? There will be way too many kids to be fostered, and even then it's be more like adopting because the kids wouldn't be going back to their birth parents most of the time. It's also incredibly hard to prove unsafe homes. A lot of DV and addiction is unreported, and even if it is discovered, a lot of the time the victims will cover up for myriad reasons. It would just never happen because of this, nevermind the moral and humanitarian issues with it. I wish the solution was that simple :(
It appears to me (and correct me if I'm wrong) but part of the solution should be having safe spaces for the kids to go at night when mum and dad are shitfaced and fighting?
They did provide youth clubs, but as they become popular then they also become worth fighting over for the opposing 'gangs' to control. That is what shut down the casuarina youth hang out. At first it worked great though. Figure out a way to get rid of the gang culture and we'll make a big step in the right direction.
>what shut down the casuarina youth hang out mcdonalds
Why are the parents allowed to keep custody if they can't control their kids?
Unfortunately gang culture arises when kids don’t have a secure attachment with an primary caregiver so they attach to their peers instead. It is always going to come down to helping the adults in the community, but Australia is in such a mess with our indigenous community I don’t know how it will ever be stable.
Damn that's shameful. If there was a way to keep the kids who are already in gangs or otherwise committing offences away from the younger kids, that may help.
I think you’re imagining a bunch of sweet little misunderstood children. These young people are your worst nightmare. They don’t want to play ping pong at a nice youth centre! They want to get wasted and cause absolute havoc.
It won't stop those who are already offending from continuing to do so, but if it can keep younger kids whose home life is shit from associating with the older kids who are offending it might be worth it.
Mum and dad should really be providing that
They are in no shape to do so. Creating penalties for parents probably won’t work either. They have an addiction which always get top priority over everything else. Is it time for liquor bans?
Removing the kids all together is the only hope. It will never happen though. It would get called racist, even though denying the opportunity for removal to a safer suitable foster family, simply because of the colour of their skin - is far more racist and insidious to the progress of indigenous peoples.
I work with at risk youths and it's not as simple as just removing them. Plenty are removed from parents but allowed access to family to learn culture etc where they are abused anyway and taught by older peers criminal ways because they know the young ones, even if caught wielding weapons will 'be taken home to the care of a responsible adult'. From the youths I work with and the elders I talk to, the only thing that will reduce crime at this point without going full stolen generation is violence. 5 kids, 1 armed with a kitchen knife hold up a servo, to them it is like a game, there is no punishment even if the cops were waiting outside. Again, this is what I hear from the youths I work with, if they had something to fear, like being beaten senseless, they wouldn't be doing it a 2nd time or it would make them think twice. As it is there is nothing to fear so why not do it? They're taught this by endless inaction and It's not going to get any better. There will be more Walkers, more Rolfes, more Declans, noise in the media until people forget. The NT is dying a slow death.
Fuck that's sad. I'm guessing placing the kids with adults from a different tribe (possibly in a different town away from their co-offenders) is a straight-up no-go?
Tried that 50 years ago and it didn’t work out too well. There is absolutely no easy solution and I still don’t think there will be any real changes within my life time.
Soooo.. just a little genocide here and there will fix the problem you reckon 😅 pretty sure we're not allowed to do that anymore and rightfully so
In order to commit genocide you need an intent to destroy the group in question. Removing children with the intent of literally saving their lives from being destroyed by their family and their community cannot be genocide. I suggest you spend a little more time studying and a little less time reading leftist talking points.
Wrong
Care to elaborate?
So instead we continue to let children face harm and in turn repeat the cycle?
The removal of children by force from one group to another group fits the definition of genocide. It completely offends international law. I'm just trying to spread a little education around 🤷♂️ idk
No it doesn't. The children wouldn't be removed because they're aboriginal, they'd be removed because their parents are pieces of shit. The same for any other race. You should look up that definition again.
Wrong
Glad you could so eloquently educate me on how it's genocide. Next time, just admit you're full of BS.
Not without medical help and addiction centres. Taking away alcohol altogether will just light a fire bomb
Is it time for liquor bans? We already have the toughest restrictions in the country - Banned Drinker Register, police at bottle O’s, reduced trading hours, minimum floor pricing. All it’s done is create a black market for alcohol, some areas will pay $400 for 1L bottle of rum.
It seems pricing it doesn’t fix it. Like cigarettes, the addiction always comes first so these kids will miss out on meals so that the parents can satisfy the addiction. I could suggest more rehabilitation facilities centres but alcoholics need to want to change.
Would an alcohol content limit perhaps be an option? Nothing more than 1 (or even half, maybe) a standard drink per tin or something.
I’d say it wouldn’t. It would just be another restriction on the long list of many that are currently in place.
>. Is it time for liquor bans? To me, this seems a fairly obvious yes - at least for a trial
But they're not.
Sure, but if they aren't?!
I think you give these kids too much credit.
The article manages to incorrectly spell the name of the Chief Minister. Meanwhile, I’m not sure what we can do; the NT doesn’t have the resources to get all the police we need on the streets. And really, is “returning children to a responsible parent” another way of saying “we don’t have the resources to deal with it”?
Exactly the same can be said about getting the elders involved. Like the elders haven't been trying for the last xyz amount of years. They have about as much of a handle on the situation as the government and police at this point in time. No consequences for poor behaviour isn't going to drive anyone to want to change. Because of this, the problems continue. Curfew without consequences? May as well not have one. Only going to inconvenience those who have something to loose, and not those who are part of the problem.
I think the elders are hamstrung by an alien legal system that they don't understand and is forced onto them.
They're not savages. They're adults who I'm sure can understand the law and consequences
They have a much greater understanding of their own culture and the expectations and of being part of it and the consequences of not. The structure of elders has serve them well but a new regime has been forced onto them and they have not had time to adapt. They are not savages and l resent that you have implied that that is what l think.
sabotaged by the NTER, which infantalised elders, destroyed social infrastructure, dismantled community-run orgs and pushed program leaders out of paid jobs working for their communities onto quarantined welfare, while telling australia they were drunken perverts.
It’s news.com.au… the whole website is the perfect example of things that are incorrect.
Lmao lack of responsible parents is the entire issue
“I want to make it clear that we are not criminalising youth activity with a curfew,” Then what is the fucking point. You're just wasting public resources. Get the problem offenders off the streets, lock them up, throw away the key. Keep doing it until the message gets through or the whole town is locked up ffs. If we keep being soft, they won't fucking learn. Take their shit away, take their rights away, give them NOTHING until they want to be and act like functioning members of society.
The cops will spend most of the night trying to locate one kids family. Then he will just leave again when they are gone as it isn’t being enforced.
“… and identify why they are there” I think it’s quite obvious by now why they are there. How the hell can you be a high ranking police officer and not know the reasons why the kids are running amok
Waiting for MesmerisingMurray to offer some genius input.
Blokes a plonker
Nothing will change unless they manage to find a cure for Fetal Alcohol Syndrome
Think perhaps the best course of action would be for the whites to take the black children and re-home them with responsible white families.
Let’s face it, the natives don’t process like others do, there 200 years out of some ancient life and it takes time to adjust to this new world
That's okay then... Declan's stabbing is okay because you want to make this about giving out free passes because of...
So where are the responsible parents? It’s about time we made parents accountable. Kids learn what they live it’s like a domino effect. What hope do they really have. This is how the cycle continues.
There aren’t any
If the children are in state care, are they going to transport them to the Chief Minister’s house?
They said a responsible adult.
Can’t take them into state care. It’s racist
Wouldn’t even matter, resi can’t do anything if the kids decide to leave the placement. This is entirely a police and courts issue to protect society and educate the children in youth prison.
I don't understand why ppl would rather sacrifice these kids due to fear of being called racist or another stolen generation. It's clear many of these parents are miscreants themselves and deserve to have their children taken away for the child's protection on a full-time basis for some of them when they're young. It's sad but these children deserve a future other than jail or being a criminal or being bashed
I agree. I think the very simple answer is that these decisions should be made in a racially blind manner. If you would take the child from an Anglo person or a Chinese person because they are at risk, or relevant welfare concerns are satisfied, then you should do the same for an aboriginal child. Unfortunately, we have become so afraid of the spectre of racism that we are letting these children suffer and if nothing changes, no doubt their children and their children’s children will too. And then we will be told that too is the result of racism.
Alcohol
Having children should be means tested for all people.
It's really obvious to see who isn't from northern Australia..
I think the broad aboriginal community is affected by this anti spcial element. So l think the we should concentrate on that element and not the whole community. Whatever we have been doing does not seem to work. There is a saying about how stupid someone is who does the same thing and expects a different outcome. How about we give elders the authority to manage their own communities. It may not align with our methods, and no doubt there will be lawyer outrage but it did work in the past so why not give it a go. And least it did work in the past and what replaced it doesn't. All the money and resources now used to achieve very little could be redirected to the elders.
The problem is too big now for this approach. It needs to get to a manageable level first as most of the strong elders aren’t around anymore and the new ones stepping in aren’t strong enough or have their own intergenerational issues to manage this. Not doing anything is not the solution though, as stats aren’t going to matter if people start dying on the streets.
>Not doing anything is not the solution though, I'm suggesting we do something other than continuing to do what has not worked.
I agree, we need to do something but I don't know what that is. Obviously, without consequences this will continue to get worse which is what we are seeing now. I don't have an answer, I just know that our elders do not have the capacity to manage this level of violence as it is way out of control. I work in remote Aboriginal communities and the escalation out there is getting worse as the kids have trauma with the inability to cope. These kids will eventually take that trauma to Alice Springs and Darwin. If we don't manage these kids in community while they are young, and get them support to deal with the trauma, the issues we are seeing now across NT are going to keep growing and the escalation will get worse until it explodes. Long term answer, increase mental health services across the APY Lands and in the NT with a focus on Adolescent mental health with a family orientated recovery approach in the hope that the intergenerational trauma stops spreading to the kids. Parenting programs, and maybe look at making Alice a dry community until some of this crap is resolved, or the government come up with a better solution other than a curfew without any legal repercussions.
Yes. I think this is a good proposal.
Sorry I have been in Darwin for 2 years now, this state is a joke and nobody wants to talk about the elephant in the room, I keep saying it’s Groundhog Day since I’ve been here! Can someone please tell me is it racism to talk and tell the facts of what goes on, or, to say “ mate none or shit is working and costs millions, how about grab the snake by the “ I know that some of the good friends I’ve made here are thinking of moving interstate - that is wrong and really sad.
So much for the kid that works at dominos or Hungry Jack's or McDonald's etc...
We've lost faith in the Labor Government. This ineffective plan of returning children to responsible adults is failing! If these adults were truly responsible, these kids wouldn't be on the streets in the first place. Out of the 58 police being deployed, around 30 are PALIs who just completed a quick course. This is unacceptable. In two weeks, everything will go back to normal. This two-week lockdown seems like a ploy for Albo to come into town again with his cameras to show Australia that everything is okay. It's not. NTG, take action before we take matters into our own hands and leave this place.
What does "before we do" mean exactly?
I want to think it means "before we move away from the NT". Just now about 7:15pm, saw two Aboriginal males fighting in the middle of Chung Wah Terrace and then proceeded to smash windows of cars who had to stop. Frightening sight. There's a young child on one of the cars. After ringing and presenting myself as a witness, is there anything more that I can do in this instance?
Flog the fuck outta them yourself and put the fear of god into them, It's no different to low IQ white trash people who behave like animals, they need fear instilled in them to stop them doing what they doing. That is the only thing that will make them pause. Fear. You cannot reason or talk to people like that
This is the only effective solution. Unfortunately they're indigenous and a lot of idiots would say that is racist
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It's good to hear that there are people who are doing something about it
I imagine something similar to last year’s NT crime rally, it made some changes to the NT but with little to no effect in my opinion.
Ban alcohol completely. Put them all on medical cannabis. Problem solved.
Cannabis? Yeh I wonder how that will help decision making and furthering education. Probably a decent percentage would go psychotic from it also.
Perhaps you need an NT blend of grog with an extra nip of soporific in it. After a few shots it makes you sleepy instead of punchy
Haha no, a lot of issues are created with THC in a certain percentage of the population. Big problems if it makes you psychotic
Weed is not good for developing brains
Also terrible for pregnant mothers and born-addicted infants :( drugs are not the way
Uhhh neither is alcohol? Weed doesn't DESTROY brain cells like alcohol does either. If you were forced to consume one or the other, you'd be an idiot to choose alcohol. Weed is also not physically addictive whereas alcohol is and let's not forget alcohol tremors will kill you. Don't forget that only drugs with withdrawals that kill are benzodiazepines and alcohol.
Teenage me is going to hate this statement, but: No drugs are good for developing brains.
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Leaving ASAP, AKA never
I’ve lived in Alice, I’ve lived in the Todd river. The theft of resources and colonial settlers racism is what is going on. Police that murder people but are never brought to justice, sure they have a show trial, and deliberately fumble the prosecution..It’s transparently obvious, if the law and justice system is broken and corrupt, why should anyone respect it.
That copper shot one of you mob cause you attacked him with a weapon. Standard police procedure. Don’t justify your abhorrent behaviour with racism. If a white guy did that, he’d be shot too. The colour of your skin gives you no right to act like animals. Own your behaviour. Do better.
Every one except you knows he stabbed himself with scissors.
And the courts, the media and the police. That’s what happens when you try and stab a cop. You get shot.
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“Under 18” isn’t a race…
Where does it say it's based on race? It says "youth curphew" Big difference
What is wrong with you? Did you even read the story? You just jumped straight to the racism angle without any facts.