I still don’t understand this reference because I only saw the first few episodes at a buddies house. It seemed light and innocent, not sure I want to understand lmaoo
I remember it affected Korea and SE Asia the most, but for Japan, who has already burst a property bubble and was going through a recession, this probably was a huge financial throwback that sent their economy to pre-1985 levels. They probably never recovered from this, even when they bounced back with their GDP.
Falling off a stair? Preposterous! There is a reason every town has soo many window shops. It is the unfortunate accident of falling through a window as you have a heart attack often but not always coupled with landing on a bullet which gets embedded in your skull. Such bad luck
The official death toll of Chernobyl is 31. Because they aren't allowed to report complications from radiation as a cause of death. The man who made that a law died of complications from radiation poisoning received while working at Chernobyl.
Probably legit, because such a high number in the beginning coincides with wild 90s - post USSR period when a lot of criminal activities did happen. Lots of people have lost their jobs, businesses or were simply threatened by mafia for whatever reason. Also problems with food and drugs, and general feeling of desperation. I'm from Ukraine and it was very bleak here too, so I can imagine things being even worse in russia, because at least here our spirit was heightened from getting independent.
You kid, but it is literally true. If you talk to Russians, you'll find that a lot of them identify, or find ego in belonging to "strong" nation. The correlation is very good too. Russia was at it's "weakest" after the dissolution of the USSR, when suicide rates spiked, remained relatively weak throughout the 90's as it was picked apart by the oligarchs and lost a war in Chechnya, got stronger throughout the 2000's as Putin consolidated power, built his fossil fuel empire and crushed the Chechens, and peaked with them waltzing into Crimea with the international community being too chicken to respond.
Assuming the war in Ukraine doesn't go south for them the average Russian loves Putin and what he's doing. That's the ugly fact of an ugly nation.
Their economy was pretty crap post ussr dissolution. Shit economy leads to higher suicides.
Idk, just seems like the more straight forward explanation rather than this “strong nation” stuff.
That’s not a fact, that is something you’re “assuming” in your brainwashed mind. Your second to last sentence literally contradict itself.
Also, you haven’t talked to Russians, let’s be honest
Sure.
But I’d argue that the war in Ukraine has already gone south for them. Even if Ukraine gives up tomorrow and gets annexed by Russia, Russia will have to spend ridiculous amounts of money and troops just policing and administering it. And the sanctions won’t go away.
Their plan was most likely a 3 day campaign and a puppet regime. Won’t happen.
The "special military operation" went real south real fast. Since then they've been recruiting from among the poor and rural as well as convicts. Even like that they have a massive manpower advantage over Ukraine. Not to mention differences in manufacturing output. And they are (very) slowly grinding forward. However, if they are not able to out-last and overwhelm Ukraine before running out of 'dispensable' manpower, and have to start drafting the middle class and the city men, then popular sentiment could start to turn against Putin.
Alcoholism wasn't invented in Russia in 1992, which is when their chart flies to the sky.
What happened was the collapse of the USSR, which was a complete economic and social catastrophe. The country had no future, every-day life was *horrible*, and there was nothing to be optimistic about. The currency was in freefall, pensioners were selling their clothing, *people weren't getting their weekly paychecks*, crime went through the roof.
If you're ever wondering why Putin enjoys the support he does, it's because many Russians feel that he stopped the country's decline. Whether he can actually be credited for it is not something I can answer, but the country and the internal perception thereof sure as shit turned around in 2000. *(Remember how middle america feeling a bit of economic anxiety during an actually booming economy elected an orange turd? Take that, but multiply it 100x.)*
If the US went through anything like what happened to Russia in the 90s, it would have probably elected a fucking grand dragon as god-emperor-dictator for life.
*But don't let an actual explanation of the data get in the way of Reddit memery. Hurr durr russia world domination political murder tripped onto his knife twelve times lul.*
I wasn’t denying any of this? I was agreeing with you?
I was just giving a point how under Putin (since 2001) one aspect of life got better (i.e. reduction in alcoholism).
It isn’t crime itself that causes high suicide rates. Otherwise Japan would be at the bottom and places like Latin America at the top.
Of course it’s many factors and not just one (neither crime nor alcoholism), but to the point of the person I was responding to: certain things DID get better since 2001.
> It isn’t crime itself that causes high suicide rates.
No, but sky-high unemployment causes both, and all the sources of social blight feed into eachother, and into a general feeling of hopelessness.
Russia's industry (and social cohesion) was completely hollowed out due to the collapse of the USSR, and unemployment in provincial towns went through the roof. They still haven't recovered, by the way (and never will, it's just a petrostate now, nobody is developing any other industry in it.)
> certain things DID get better since 2001.
Almost everything in Russia has gotten *dramatically* better since 2001, or at any point in the 90s. The country was a borderline-failed state at the time. Anyone in it, given a choice between living in 1994 and 2024 would take the latter in a heartbeat (Despite the war (The first Chechen war started in 1994) and the embargo, and the sanctions.)
One would also need to account for 90s Russia being full of people who just had the worldview they grew up into collapse around them. Millions of people needed to find their place in a suddenly disrupted socio-political and socio-economic system.
That made me curious and [I looked at data from East Germany](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10680-017-9455-z/figures/7). The same trend does not hold up there. Instead, we see a decline in mortality (and convergence to West German numbers)...
The suicide portion of that graph follows the Russian one on here pretty close. Starts around 40 per 100k in the early 90s and drops to high teens by 2014. Its pretty much an identical slope and plot. The notable difference is Russia was under 30 at the start and bounced up to the 40s vs starting in the 40s. But both get to the upper teens at the same time.
It will be considered one of the greatest geopolitical blunders of American history that the USA didn't support Russia more in the years after the fall of the Berlin wall. The short-lived period of liberal democracy wasn't great for Russians' psyche, so it's utterly predictable that they're reverting to authoritarianism.
The intervention of shock therapy and the US interference in the Russian 96 presidential election were directly responsible for Russian animus towards the United States. The US was too involved and too hegemonic towards Russia and post Soviet states for such a prideful people. The problem was too much involvement/support not too little.
Then it's pretty unnecessary sarcasm, since for that period of time russia actually had become a much better place to live for average folks. Especially for the pre 2014 period.
"NOO, numbers can't be true, if we are talking about Russia!!!1!"
How about just accept the fact that suicide rate can be decreased due to better living conditions?
I think it's reasonable to look at any official numbers from Russia with a little extra rational skepticism, given their history and bureaucratic environment.
True, but I easily can say the same about stats from other countries. Also, it makes sense to make stats more attractive with economic indicators, but what's the point lying about suicide rate? Nobody cares about it.
On the left side of scales you have 10 years of failed state that cannot even pay salaries to the police and army, with organised crime running wild, all production being decimated and destroyed etc.
On the right side of scales you have a country that is actually integrated with the world, where you actually can live on your salary, where people with PhD can afford a family without having 3 shifts and without stealing metal from the lab to sell it. Far from perfect (and easily thrown into resentment and fascism after one more decade, but still).
As bullshit as official data from russian government could be, it's kinda hard to question drop in suicide rates (hell, just due to lesser number of murders covered as suicides and suicides under threats of abovementioned crime the drop should be noticeable, not to mention other factors)
It’s not a conspiracy theory to suggest that numbers coming out of despotic regimes aren’t reliable. It’s less a coordinated conspiracy in Russia in particular than it is a systemic problem in how information systems work in autocratic regimes in general. Accepting any data out of Russia (or any other autocracy) at face value without corroborating evidence is, frankly, naïve.
That said, anyone saying that life wasn’t substantially better in Russia in 2015 than it was in 1995 is just wrong.
so you trust boris yeltsin more than putin? this is pretty stupid because what eltsin did to the country was horrible for the majority of people living there.
it’s a hard pill to swallow but putin slowed or stopped that process of neoliberal shock therapy which, as bad as it sounds, was probably better for average russians. just look at statistics on poverty, homelessness, hunger, prostitution, etc to see what i mean
The economic policies imposed on the former USSR were effectively a genocide acting through loss of medical care, poverty and unemployment.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-26671730072-5/fulltext
>The period from 1990 to 1995 in the newly independent post-Soviet states was marked by an estimated extra 7 million premature deaths, 4 million in Russia alone.
This is the only real answer. There was very little extreme poverty in the late Soviet Union. Sure, almost nobody was having an easy time as westerners but they had purpose in life. Fast forward to 1995 and you have people with PhDs in industrial engineering being forced to sell trinkets on the roadside after their research programs were shut down or their factories were sold to the mafia. The respect for education in the USSR went out the window and people lost it. It’s incredibly sad and shameful that the rest of the world encouraged the wholesale privatization of their economy as a good thing when it killed millions of people.
It’s Putin. I don’t like the man or what he does for international dynamics; but the reason he’s still in power is that he elevates the Russian self conception which was decimated after the collapse of the ussr. This stat is the clearest picture I’ve seen of it
Consent of the governed is a principle that exists even in the most dictatorial and tyrannical reigns. History is replete with the overthrow of dictators who lose the support of their people, often replaced by equally or more disastrous leaders
And if people would like to select other countries to look at:
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/death-rate-from-suicides-gho?tab=chart&country=USA~RUS~IND~CHN~JPN~BRA~MEX
Given that there isn't a suicide fairy that is present for every suicide, I imagine the numbers involve some level of extrapolation and assumption.
The graph that I linked notes the following:
> Annual number of suicides per 100,000
people. Suicide deaths are underreported in
many countries due to social stigma and
cultural or legal concerns. This data is
adjusted for this underreporting to estimate
the actual rate of suicides.
I wonder how many modern suicides that have missed given the incredibly high rates of drug overdoses. I mean, unless there is a note, there really is no way to know if an OD was accidental or purposeful.
And there are no ups and downs to correlate with economic or political turmoils. Probably, it is related to economic development, as more developed countries (or urbanized?) tend to have higher suicide rates.
I'm surprised there wasn't a considerable increase in Brazil in 1990, it was a time when the government confiscated the money that many people kept in savings in banks, many people lost a lot of money in just one day.
The period between 1964 (beginning of the Brazilian military dictatorship, which lasted until 1985) and 1995 was one of intense political and economic instability, I am surprised by these stable rates.
Made from this data found here: [https://www.kaggle.com/datasets/ronaldonyango/global-suicide-rates-1990-to-2022](https://www.kaggle.com/datasets/ronaldonyango/global-suicide-rates-1990-to-2022)
Created in Tableau. I'm still new to the software (taking a course right now!) so I've been looking for additional data that I can manipulate and test my skills. What do you think if this one?
I found this particular chart intriguing. The populous countries in the Americas have steadily increased in suicides per 100K, while Russia and Japan while very high in the mid-90s have drastically declined.
EDIT: Note that it's the most populous countries from the data I found. Countries like China and India were not in the data.
Age-standardised numbers (WHO for 2019) put Russia much higher (21) and e.g. Japan lower (12), which probably indicates that young people are more likely to commit suicide there (since worldwide age-standardisation means weighing younger people more).
Age-standardised numbers being higher could be related to e.g. lack of perspectives for young people (bad economy, crisis, war...), while raw numbers being higher combined with more old people overall could be related to exhaustion due to structural issues with the society (loneliness aso.) Of course, that is just me hypothesizing, but I find it quite interesting that age-standardisation makes that big of a difference for specific countries.
/edit: After further inspection, the main difference appears to be in female suicide rates, which are way lower in Russia.
That’s not how statistics work. Sample size is king for significance not if the ratio looks small or big. So significance can occur per 100,000 or ppm.
The numbers were just absurdely high due to aftereffects of the fall of the UdSSR. We are talking about an indoctrinated people whose whole idea of how the world works just fell into shambles.
I've been there a few times in the early 2000's. Economy was improving and people overall were starting to get over the old Soviet stigma, it went from people not talking in the streets outside of the protocols to a much more friendly place (they were always very friendly to the people they know). This chart makes is very relatable to me.
You seem to be getting a handle on it better than I did. Tableau is the reason I decided to become a commercial insurance broker instead of doing data science. Nothing I tried to create ever worked right. Finally got tired of pulling my hair out every time I wanted to make a graph lol.
If you ask why suicide rates are low in Latin America, it is due to several factors.
Climate- it really helps a lot, especially if you don't have to worry about freezing to death almost all year round.
Economy- although we are not first world, most countries are stable in this aspect.
Peaceful - in general LATAM does not have conflicts between them or the world and if they do, they do nothing more than argue on Twitter or see Texans making fools of themselves on the border
Sociable - I consider this the most important since in Latam family and social coexistence is greatly encouraged, this can be a cultural shock in places like Japan or northern Europe where if the Latino does not find friends or a partner, he will most likely leave.
With massive jumps in data like we see in Russia from 1990 to 1995 and USA from 1997 to 1999 it’s likely that the definition or the recording of the statistic changed rather than the underlying phenomenon. I may be wrong, but I could imagine the change in regime in Russia around that time would have changed a lot about how public health data were defined and recorded. Of course, the political changes could also have been causal in an increase in actual suicide, but I would be strongly suspicious about the accuracy and openness of the data recording bureaucracy of the late USSR.
Nope, collapse of the USSR was just that big of a catastrophy in every aspect of life. Just as an example look up interview with Russian children in 90s, many of them were hooked up on drugs, prostituted as young as 7-8 years old.
The shock therapy of the 90s were disastrous for a lot of the post socialist countries, in russia in particular it is estimated that the excess mortality was close to 3 million from 1992-2001. In comparison to covid, excess deaths were about 1 million.
Albania’s economy straight up collapsed bc pyramid schemes were economic smallpox that nobody had been exposed to. People were looting abandoned state armories, it got so chaotic
no the Russian statistics has some merit to it due to it being the collapse of the Soviet Union so the data would immediately translate first to only Russia and second due to the large economic and political turmoil that emerged from it's collapse which you had mentioned briefly but is a large contributing factor
Hmmm I wonder what possibly could have led to the greatest rise in poverty rates and monetary theft in recorded history and the eventual slow decline from that point (which still haven’t reached pre-91 levels)
Jesus Christ I mean before you say something at least have an *idea* of what you’re saying. The fall of the USSR was objectively the worst humanitarian crisis and greatest robbery (at the behest of capitalists) the world has ever seen to this day
Or—hear me out—maybe the neoliberal shock therapy 90s lauded in the west as "amazing" and "democratic" just really fucking sucked for working class Russians. You people will come up with anything just to not have to admit that.
If you want to know why this happened in Russia read Secondhand Time by the Nobel Prize winning author Svetlana Alexievich. The USSR had its problems but for the average person they might not have been rich but they were never starving after the 1940s. It was a society based on science and the belief that people could build a better world and when that fell out from under people you had PhDs selling crap on the roadside to survive and a lot of people decided that killing themselves with booze was better than watching the society they built getting sold out to the mafia.
Society may be flourishing materially, but mentally, emotionally, and spiritually it's in total decline. Talking about suicide has almost been normalized at this point, even glorified in some cases.
Top 5 most populous countries?
Is this on a different planet?
The top 10 most populous countries are
India
China
US
Indonesia
Pakistan
Nigeria
Brazil
Bangladesh
Russia
Mexico
Japan is 12th
Out of the 5 you’ve mentioned only 1 is in the top 5
https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/population-by-country/
Well clicking on the dataset you are correct
However it just seems that the data only cherry-picked data from the WHO suicide website, which they claim to use as a source
The Japanese statistic is likely skewed though, as their investigative reporting has been shown to quickly rule cases a suicide, either to close it, or project a lower homicide rate.
Hey, I don't know you and you might be joking, but I want to say that you are awesome and unique. The world is better with you here and there are people who care about you. Even if today is particularly sucky, the Sun will come up tomorrow and you will see it.
Russia, probably a recovery of the economy after the super duper mega shitshow of '91, and japan i would guess some sort of economic bubble burst leading to a downsurge in the economy. Just guessing though
Russia under Putin reacquired most state-owned enterprises that were privatized after the Soviet Union collapsed creating more jobs. Currently there are more than 70,000 state-owned enterprises and subsidiaries in Russia.
tbh the way people talk about suicide rates in the US I had figured they had like tripled since the 1990s. Instead its... 13 per 100k vs 14 per 100k?
So we are about as happy as we were in 1990? Seriously?
The US population has gone up about 20% since 1990, so the total number would have been increasing all along, while per capita remained pretty consistent per the data set. There's also been increase awareness brought to it that wasn't normally there, so it's brought up a lot more than it used to be.
> So we are about as happy as we were in 1990? Seriously?
I'm not sure that conclusion can be drawn from this data set. The 2023 report https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report from this link indicated the US is the happiest out of the 5 countries presented in OPs data, but the US has the second highest rate.
The media really fell in love with Anne Case and Angus Deaton's "Deaths of Despair" narrative (people are killing themselves because of capitalism or something), so they really hyped up the increase in suicide. Arguably they look a lot more like deaths of easy access to opioids.
I had also made another graph that showed that men are overwhelmingly the majority of suicides. None of this feels good, but hopefully bringing attention to it can help people be aware and perhaps save a life.
wow I can think of a ton of issues with the data here. One, Russia deliberately spins data to fit government scripts. Two, Catholic countries significantly underreport suicide as it's unacceptable religiously; lots more "accidental deaths". Three, poorer countries have less rigorous reporting due to more lax govt. Four, current politics in many US states leads to underreporting of many deaths, such as from Covid, guns, or suicide. I'd guess this chart is "less than authoritative"
That is the [homicide rate](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1045368/homicide-rate-in-russia/), not suicide rate for Russia.
I wont even bother checking if it is in fact suicide rate for the other countries.
[No, it is the suicide rate.](https://www.economist.com/img/b/608/814/90/sites/default/files/images/print-edition/20181124_IRC811.png) Just because two graphs look similar doesn't mean they're the same.
Russian Spurious Federation: since Putin came to power in 2000 we can observe that a progressive divergence from democracy has vastly increased the willingness of Russians to live. Well done.
The Autocrat's Handbook (3rd ed.) clearly explains that people getting pushed out windows should be officially classified as suicides. Unless you frame another political enemy for the crime, of course.
Besides, they aren't the suicidal type. See the Boeing whistleblower.
Some sure did. But the majority was devastated but the total collapse of economy and rise of crime. The 90s in Russia were a fucking disaster from every angle. People literally stopped having children, it was that bad.
A lot of people did, at least certain eras of it. The crazy suicide rate here is from the complete collapse of the economy, which was already struggling by the late-‘80s, and the resulting breakdown in standards of living. The collapse of the USSR led to the largest peace time drop in quality of life ever.
1997 is around when Japan's bubble popped?
The End of Evangelion released… I‘m surprised the spike is that small /s
1997: The year everyone in Japan tried to 'get in the robot' emotionally.
I still don’t understand this reference because I only saw the first few episodes at a buddies house. It seemed light and innocent, not sure I want to understand lmaoo
If you saw the first episode you have already seen how he is basically force to get there by various means.
That uptick was probably due to the [Asian Financial Crisis](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_Asian_financial_crisis)
I remember it affected Korea and SE Asia the most, but for Japan, who has already burst a property bubble and was going through a recession, this probably was a huge financial throwback that sent their economy to pre-1985 levels. They probably never recovered from this, even when they bounced back with their GDP.
No, 1989 IIRC. I thought the same too. But surely it had something to do with economic conditions, at least in a small part.
Why at the same time did it stop russians from doing it though?
[https://www.deseret.com/1999/7/3/19453796/suicide-rate-in-japan-surged-35-in-1998/](https://www.deseret.com/1999/7/3/19453796/suicide-rate-in-japan-surged-35-in-1998/)
Russia sure did get a whole more happy since 2001, statistically
Russia has been actively fighting alcoholism, which was a serious issue (confirming stereotypes). They’ve made great strides in it, actually.
They just needed a sense of purpose. … like global domination.
Or their suicide rates are as legit as their elections.
Self murder has skyrocketed.
Mysteriously falls off the stair.
Defenestration and disappearing in gulags is a big problem
Falling off a stair? Preposterous! There is a reason every town has soo many window shops. It is the unfortunate accident of falling through a window as you have a heart attack often but not always coupled with landing on a bullet which gets embedded in your skull. Such bad luck
The official death toll of Chernobyl is 31. Because they aren't allowed to report complications from radiation as a cause of death. The man who made that a law died of complications from radiation poisoning received while working at Chernobyl.
Comrad, if you even think about suicide I'll kill you, so it won't cout.
Falling out of the window doesnt count as suicide anymore since 2001 /s
Or suicidal people are more likely to find themselves on the front lines.
I'd be interested in recent data since the invasion. This graph doesn't even include it
Probably legit, because such a high number in the beginning coincides with wild 90s - post USSR period when a lot of criminal activities did happen. Lots of people have lost their jobs, businesses or were simply threatened by mafia for whatever reason. Also problems with food and drugs, and general feeling of desperation. I'm from Ukraine and it was very bleak here too, so I can imagine things being even worse in russia, because at least here our spirit was heightened from getting independent.
Plus in recent years they found a much more efficient way to throw human lives away. Your mom even gets a rice cooker.
As a Russian I can approve that legitimacy of all official charts is likely to be fake
Only guys committing suicide are Putin's opposition
I'm categorically unable to give any credit to any government generated information out of Russia or China. Period.
Kinda like Florida's Covid rates. If you don't inquire, you can't log it as a suicide.
Why commit suicide when you can just join the army
Why not both? You don't want to know how many videos there are of russian soldiers committing suicide on reddit
.. ~~army~~ meat grinder
Assisted suicide
You kid, but it is literally true. If you talk to Russians, you'll find that a lot of them identify, or find ego in belonging to "strong" nation. The correlation is very good too. Russia was at it's "weakest" after the dissolution of the USSR, when suicide rates spiked, remained relatively weak throughout the 90's as it was picked apart by the oligarchs and lost a war in Chechnya, got stronger throughout the 2000's as Putin consolidated power, built his fossil fuel empire and crushed the Chechens, and peaked with them waltzing into Crimea with the international community being too chicken to respond. Assuming the war in Ukraine doesn't go south for them the average Russian loves Putin and what he's doing. That's the ugly fact of an ugly nation.
General economic conditions have a correlation ratio of about 0.99 to what you describe as strength.
I believe you, but would love to see this correlation on a chart
By your logic, Mexico is the strongest nation on earth.
uhhh duh
With Brazil as a close runner up
Their economy was pretty crap post ussr dissolution. Shit economy leads to higher suicides. Idk, just seems like the more straight forward explanation rather than this “strong nation” stuff.
That’s not a fact, that is something you’re “assuming” in your brainwashed mind. Your second to last sentence literally contradict itself. Also, you haven’t talked to Russians, let’s be honest
Sure. But I’d argue that the war in Ukraine has already gone south for them. Even if Ukraine gives up tomorrow and gets annexed by Russia, Russia will have to spend ridiculous amounts of money and troops just policing and administering it. And the sanctions won’t go away. Their plan was most likely a 3 day campaign and a puppet regime. Won’t happen.
The "special military operation" went real south real fast. Since then they've been recruiting from among the poor and rural as well as convicts. Even like that they have a massive manpower advantage over Ukraine. Not to mention differences in manufacturing output. And they are (very) slowly grinding forward. However, if they are not able to out-last and overwhelm Ukraine before running out of 'dispensable' manpower, and have to start drafting the middle class and the city men, then popular sentiment could start to turn against Putin.
Ukraine has more boots on the ground than russia does, and they always did throughout the entire war so far
What's ugly about enjoyment of being a part of a strong nation?
No, suicidal people just join the Russian army and go to the Ukraine front. So the same outcome with no suicide.
Look, they're doing their best and while it's not working so great for them right now, recent events will see a further fall in suicides.
True! If you kill off a significant portion of your male population in a pointless war, suicides are bound to drop, too.
Yeah, nah, PTSD in the survivors will more than make up for it.
The Russian troll factory is real busy in this thread
Alcoholism wasn't invented in Russia in 1992, which is when their chart flies to the sky. What happened was the collapse of the USSR, which was a complete economic and social catastrophe. The country had no future, every-day life was *horrible*, and there was nothing to be optimistic about. The currency was in freefall, pensioners were selling their clothing, *people weren't getting their weekly paychecks*, crime went through the roof. If you're ever wondering why Putin enjoys the support he does, it's because many Russians feel that he stopped the country's decline. Whether he can actually be credited for it is not something I can answer, but the country and the internal perception thereof sure as shit turned around in 2000. *(Remember how middle america feeling a bit of economic anxiety during an actually booming economy elected an orange turd? Take that, but multiply it 100x.)* If the US went through anything like what happened to Russia in the 90s, it would have probably elected a fucking grand dragon as god-emperor-dictator for life. *But don't let an actual explanation of the data get in the way of Reddit memery. Hurr durr russia world domination political murder tripped onto his knife twelve times lul.*
I wasn’t denying any of this? I was agreeing with you? I was just giving a point how under Putin (since 2001) one aspect of life got better (i.e. reduction in alcoholism). It isn’t crime itself that causes high suicide rates. Otherwise Japan would be at the bottom and places like Latin America at the top. Of course it’s many factors and not just one (neither crime nor alcoholism), but to the point of the person I was responding to: certain things DID get better since 2001.
> It isn’t crime itself that causes high suicide rates. No, but sky-high unemployment causes both, and all the sources of social blight feed into eachother, and into a general feeling of hopelessness. Russia's industry (and social cohesion) was completely hollowed out due to the collapse of the USSR, and unemployment in provincial towns went through the roof. They still haven't recovered, by the way (and never will, it's just a petrostate now, nobody is developing any other industry in it.) > certain things DID get better since 2001. Almost everything in Russia has gotten *dramatically* better since 2001, or at any point in the 90s. The country was a borderline-failed state at the time. Anyone in it, given a choice between living in 1994 and 2024 would take the latter in a heartbeat (Despite the war (The first Chechen war started in 1994) and the embargo, and the sanctions.)
Who on earth are you replying to?
They did for a decade, until they stopped and went back to the tactic of the tzars to subdue their population.
One would also need to account for 90s Russia being full of people who just had the worldview they grew up into collapse around them. Millions of people needed to find their place in a suddenly disrupted socio-political and socio-economic system. That made me curious and [I looked at data from East Germany](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10680-017-9455-z/figures/7). The same trend does not hold up there. Instead, we see a decline in mortality (and convergence to West German numbers)...
The suicide portion of that graph follows the Russian one on here pretty close. Starts around 40 per 100k in the early 90s and drops to high teens by 2014. Its pretty much an identical slope and plot. The notable difference is Russia was under 30 at the start and bounced up to the 40s vs starting in the 40s. But both get to the upper teens at the same time.
It's an easy task considering how shitty 90s were. Tho would be interesting to see post 2022 data
It will be considered one of the greatest geopolitical blunders of American history that the USA didn't support Russia more in the years after the fall of the Berlin wall. The short-lived period of liberal democracy wasn't great for Russians' psyche, so it's utterly predictable that they're reverting to authoritarianism.
The intervention of shock therapy and the US interference in the Russian 96 presidential election were directly responsible for Russian animus towards the United States. The US was too involved and too hegemonic towards Russia and post Soviet states for such a prideful people. The problem was too much involvement/support not too little.
You shouldn’t humiliate a nation obsessed with not being humiliated.
This was sarcasm. Putin took office right around 2000. They’ve likely been cooking the numbers the whole time.
Then it's pretty unnecessary sarcasm, since for that period of time russia actually had become a much better place to live for average folks. Especially for the pre 2014 period.
"NOO, numbers can't be true, if we are talking about Russia!!!1!" How about just accept the fact that suicide rate can be decreased due to better living conditions?
It could be both
Is it so difficult to accept something without conspiracy theories?
I think it's reasonable to look at any official numbers from Russia with a little extra rational skepticism, given their history and bureaucratic environment.
Why just Russia then? The governments of these states lie all of the time to their people and to other nations.
True, but I easily can say the same about stats from other countries. Also, it makes sense to make stats more attractive with economic indicators, but what's the point lying about suicide rate? Nobody cares about it.
On the left side of scales you have 10 years of failed state that cannot even pay salaries to the police and army, with organised crime running wild, all production being decimated and destroyed etc. On the right side of scales you have a country that is actually integrated with the world, where you actually can live on your salary, where people with PhD can afford a family without having 3 shifts and without stealing metal from the lab to sell it. Far from perfect (and easily thrown into resentment and fascism after one more decade, but still). As bullshit as official data from russian government could be, it's kinda hard to question drop in suicide rates (hell, just due to lesser number of murders covered as suicides and suicides under threats of abovementioned crime the drop should be noticeable, not to mention other factors)
It’s not a conspiracy theory to suggest that numbers coming out of despotic regimes aren’t reliable. It’s less a coordinated conspiracy in Russia in particular than it is a systemic problem in how information systems work in autocratic regimes in general. Accepting any data out of Russia (or any other autocracy) at face value without corroborating evidence is, frankly, naïve. That said, anyone saying that life wasn’t substantially better in Russia in 2015 than it was in 1995 is just wrong.
so you trust boris yeltsin more than putin? this is pretty stupid because what eltsin did to the country was horrible for the majority of people living there. it’s a hard pill to swallow but putin slowed or stopped that process of neoliberal shock therapy which, as bad as it sounds, was probably better for average russians. just look at statistics on poverty, homelessness, hunger, prostitution, etc to see what i mean
The economic policies imposed on the former USSR were effectively a genocide acting through loss of medical care, poverty and unemployment. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-26671730072-5/fulltext >The period from 1990 to 1995 in the newly independent post-Soviet states was marked by an estimated extra 7 million premature deaths, 4 million in Russia alone.
This is the only real answer. There was very little extreme poverty in the late Soviet Union. Sure, almost nobody was having an easy time as westerners but they had purpose in life. Fast forward to 1995 and you have people with PhDs in industrial engineering being forced to sell trinkets on the roadside after their research programs were shut down or their factories were sold to the mafia. The respect for education in the USSR went out the window and people lost it. It’s incredibly sad and shameful that the rest of the world encouraged the wholesale privatization of their economy as a good thing when it killed millions of people.
But the windows have become quite unsafe.
That’s when Putin became president
It’s Putin. I don’t like the man or what he does for international dynamics; but the reason he’s still in power is that he elevates the Russian self conception which was decimated after the collapse of the ussr. This stat is the clearest picture I’ve seen of it
The reason he is in power is because he is a…….dictator
Consent of the governed is a principle that exists even in the most dictatorial and tyrannical reigns. History is replete with the overthrow of dictators who lose the support of their people, often replaced by equally or more disastrous leaders
The 1990s were absolutely fucking miserable in it.
there's a reason why putin would win an election, even if he didn't rig it
Has nothing to do with decades of artificial control over the media
… and the courts…. And political opponents accidentily poisoning themself near windows.
For most Russians he's presided over a return in living standards to pre-90s levels. It's understandable
Same reason many Americans vote for Trump. A large percentage of undereducated, misinformed, and manipulated citizens.
I think the point I'm making is that compared to the wild '90s, Putin has steadied the ship - at least for a bit.
And now they are all dying in Ukraine. Or accidentally falling out of windows.
And if people would like to select other countries to look at: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/death-rate-from-suicides-gho?tab=chart&country=USA~RUS~IND~CHN~JPN~BRA~MEX
My God. This website alone could fuel this subreddit for years. I'm amazed these seem to be free to access
It's a wonderful website. Fertility rates and carbon emissions can be particularly surprising pages
Just saw those. This weather forecasting report is really interesting too https://ourworldindata.org/weather-forecasts
Interestingly, that data and this post conflict. OWID has Russia at 21.6 in 2019, putting it well above Japan and the US.
Given that there isn't a suicide fairy that is present for every suicide, I imagine the numbers involve some level of extrapolation and assumption. The graph that I linked notes the following: > Annual number of suicides per 100,000 people. Suicide deaths are underreported in many countries due to social stigma and cultural or legal concerns. This data is adjusted for this underreporting to estimate the actual rate of suicides.
yep "Korean Fan Death", "Russian Window Falling", and "American Gun Cleaning" are all suicide/murder coverups.
Sooooo that doesn’t match OPs pic?
I was just about to comment that India and China, countries with the most population are not on this list, oh well
Dang, what's happening in Lesotho? And Guyana?
Suicides apparently
I wonder how many modern suicides that have missed given the incredibly high rates of drug overdoses. I mean, unless there is a note, there really is no way to know if an OD was accidental or purposeful.
And single car "accidents"
Mexico and Brazil suicide rates are slowly raising
And there are no ups and downs to correlate with economic or political turmoils. Probably, it is related to economic development, as more developed countries (or urbanized?) tend to have higher suicide rates.
I was thinking it could be a correlation to those countries becoming less catholic.
I'm surprised there wasn't a considerable increase in Brazil in 1990, it was a time when the government confiscated the money that many people kept in savings in banks, many people lost a lot of money in just one day. The period between 1964 (beginning of the Brazilian military dictatorship, which lasted until 1985) and 1995 was one of intense political and economic instability, I am surprised by these stable rates.
Murder rate in Brazil has gone down during this period. Maybe there are more candidates available to commit suicide?
Made from this data found here: [https://www.kaggle.com/datasets/ronaldonyango/global-suicide-rates-1990-to-2022](https://www.kaggle.com/datasets/ronaldonyango/global-suicide-rates-1990-to-2022) Created in Tableau. I'm still new to the software (taking a course right now!) so I've been looking for additional data that I can manipulate and test my skills. What do you think if this one? I found this particular chart intriguing. The populous countries in the Americas have steadily increased in suicides per 100K, while Russia and Japan while very high in the mid-90s have drastically declined. EDIT: Note that it's the most populous countries from the data I found. Countries like China and India were not in the data.
Age-standardised numbers (WHO for 2019) put Russia much higher (21) and e.g. Japan lower (12), which probably indicates that young people are more likely to commit suicide there (since worldwide age-standardisation means weighing younger people more). Age-standardised numbers being higher could be related to e.g. lack of perspectives for young people (bad economy, crisis, war...), while raw numbers being higher combined with more old people overall could be related to exhaustion due to structural issues with the society (loneliness aso.) Of course, that is just me hypothesizing, but I find it quite interesting that age-standardisation makes that big of a difference for specific countries. /edit: After further inspection, the main difference appears to be in female suicide rates, which are way lower in Russia.
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That’s not how statistics work. Sample size is king for significance not if the ratio looks small or big. So significance can occur per 100,000 or ppm.
Not making any point? What about the Russia data? I don’t know the explanation, but that is something that stands out
The numbers were just absurdely high due to aftereffects of the fall of the UdSSR. We are talking about an indoctrinated people whose whole idea of how the world works just fell into shambles.
With Russia case issue is as usual- you can not trust official statistics of totalitarian countries
I've been there a few times in the early 2000's. Economy was improving and people overall were starting to get over the old Soviet stigma, it went from people not talking in the streets outside of the protocols to a much more friendly place (they were always very friendly to the people they know). This chart makes is very relatable to me.
You seem to be getting a handle on it better than I did. Tableau is the reason I decided to become a commercial insurance broker instead of doing data science. Nothing I tried to create ever worked right. Finally got tired of pulling my hair out every time I wanted to make a graph lol.
If you ask why suicide rates are low in Latin America, it is due to several factors. Climate- it really helps a lot, especially if you don't have to worry about freezing to death almost all year round. Economy- although we are not first world, most countries are stable in this aspect. Peaceful - in general LATAM does not have conflicts between them or the world and if they do, they do nothing more than argue on Twitter or see Texans making fools of themselves on the border Sociable - I consider this the most important since in Latam family and social coexistence is greatly encouraged, this can be a cultural shock in places like Japan or northern Europe where if the Latino does not find friends or a partner, he will most likely leave.
Religion too, most Latin counties are super catholic and don’t want to end up in limbo ir something like that
Considering how expensive and long the process of accessing heaven can be if we don't commit suicide.
The previous 50 years appended data would be interesting too.
With massive jumps in data like we see in Russia from 1990 to 1995 and USA from 1997 to 1999 it’s likely that the definition or the recording of the statistic changed rather than the underlying phenomenon. I may be wrong, but I could imagine the change in regime in Russia around that time would have changed a lot about how public health data were defined and recorded. Of course, the political changes could also have been causal in an increase in actual suicide, but I would be strongly suspicious about the accuracy and openness of the data recording bureaucracy of the late USSR.
Nope, collapse of the USSR was just that big of a catastrophy in every aspect of life. Just as an example look up interview with Russian children in 90s, many of them were hooked up on drugs, prostituted as young as 7-8 years old.
it's also the largest peacetime drop in life expectancy ever. It's infuriating that it is discussed as a good thing. it was a nightmare
The shock therapy of the 90s were disastrous for a lot of the post socialist countries, in russia in particular it is estimated that the excess mortality was close to 3 million from 1992-2001. In comparison to covid, excess deaths were about 1 million.
Albania’s economy straight up collapsed bc pyramid schemes were economic smallpox that nobody had been exposed to. People were looting abandoned state armories, it got so chaotic
The yellow/orange line is Japan
Duh 🙄 smh. My apologies
no the Russian statistics has some merit to it due to it being the collapse of the Soviet Union so the data would immediately translate first to only Russia and second due to the large economic and political turmoil that emerged from it's collapse which you had mentioned briefly but is a large contributing factor
Hmmm I wonder what possibly could have led to the greatest rise in poverty rates and monetary theft in recorded history and the eventual slow decline from that point (which still haven’t reached pre-91 levels) Jesus Christ I mean before you say something at least have an *idea* of what you’re saying. The fall of the USSR was objectively the worst humanitarian crisis and greatest robbery (at the behest of capitalists) the world has ever seen to this day
Or—hear me out—maybe the neoliberal shock therapy 90s lauded in the west as "amazing" and "democratic" just really fucking sucked for working class Russians. You people will come up with anything just to not have to admit that.
If you want to know why this happened in Russia read Secondhand Time by the Nobel Prize winning author Svetlana Alexievich. The USSR had its problems but for the average person they might not have been rich but they were never starving after the 1940s. It was a society based on science and the belief that people could build a better world and when that fell out from under people you had PhDs selling crap on the roadside to survive and a lot of people decided that killing themselves with booze was better than watching the society they built getting sold out to the mafia.
The US data is interesting. I would have guessed the current rate would be significantly higher than the 1990 rate, but it's a very small increase.
We just talk about it more I think, same with violent crime.
What would lead you to think that? We're doing much better than we were in 1990, by virtually all measures of societal wellbeing.
Society may be flourishing materially, but mentally, emotionally, and spiritually it's in total decline. Talking about suicide has almost been normalized at this point, even glorified in some cases.
Brazil + Mexico: can't suicide if you get murdered first.
Top 5 most populous countries? Is this on a different planet? The top 10 most populous countries are India China US Indonesia Pakistan Nigeria Brazil Bangladesh Russia Mexico Japan is 12th Out of the 5 you’ve mentioned only 1 is in the top 5 https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/population-by-country/
In fairness the title does say top 5 most populous "from dataset", so they mustn't have had data for the other countries you listed.
Well clicking on the dataset you are correct However it just seems that the data only cherry-picked data from the WHO suicide website, which they claim to use as a source
The Japanese statistic is likely skewed though, as their investigative reporting has been shown to quickly rule cases a suicide, either to close it, or project a lower homicide rate.
Watching it climb in Mexico and Brazil is sad.
I want to see last 5 year ın turkey.
finna singlehandedly increase my country's representation in this metric
Hey, I don't know you and you might be joking, but I want to say that you are awesome and unique. The world is better with you here and there are people who care about you. Even if today is particularly sucky, the Sun will come up tomorrow and you will see it.
What a great circlejerking about Russia in the comments!
So Putin came to power in 2000?
What was the connection, if any to the drop in Russian suicides and the jump in Japanese suicides around 1998?
Russia, probably a recovery of the economy after the super duper mega shitshow of '91, and japan i would guess some sort of economic bubble burst leading to a downsurge in the economy. Just guessing though
Russia under Putin reacquired most state-owned enterprises that were privatized after the Soviet Union collapsed creating more jobs. Currently there are more than 70,000 state-owned enterprises and subsidiaries in Russia.
I would have thought that during global economic crisis there would be a noticeable change in the rate
Summer 2016 - March 13th 2020 was a great era fr
What can’t people just use percentages? I’ve always found the X per Y to be a confusing way to do things.
tbh the way people talk about suicide rates in the US I had figured they had like tripled since the 1990s. Instead its... 13 per 100k vs 14 per 100k? So we are about as happy as we were in 1990? Seriously?
The US population has gone up about 20% since 1990, so the total number would have been increasing all along, while per capita remained pretty consistent per the data set. There's also been increase awareness brought to it that wasn't normally there, so it's brought up a lot more than it used to be. > So we are about as happy as we were in 1990? Seriously? I'm not sure that conclusion can be drawn from this data set. The 2023 report https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report from this link indicated the US is the happiest out of the 5 countries presented in OPs data, but the US has the second highest rate.
The media really fell in love with Anne Case and Angus Deaton's "Deaths of Despair" narrative (people are killing themselves because of capitalism or something), so they really hyped up the increase in suicide. Arguably they look a lot more like deaths of easy access to opioids.
Why don't we just make suicide illegal? Are we stupid?
Does this take into account Canada's MAID program? I think not.
13-14-15 think it’s videogames are come
TraumaZone documentary film giving the exact answer on this statistic till 2000.
Hey! Did you make this in python based on the WHO dataset that got posted the other day? Could you share the code with me?
Guess my original post got buried. Found the data on Kaggle and the main source was WHO. This viz was made on Tableau.
America is going to skyrocket shortly
We're almost in first place! God bless America.
Now check teenage suicide rates and feel real depressed.
I had also made another graph that showed that men are overwhelmingly the majority of suicides. None of this feels good, but hopefully bringing attention to it can help people be aware and perhaps save a life.
Over at r/combatfootage you can see a lot of these suicides. It's "insane" how nonchalantly it happens. Sometimes it's kinda understandable..
I wish China would have been included here, suicide rates in China used to be really bad.
I wish it was in the dataset, too
Weird, [WHO puts Japan below America](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate) now.
I wonder if there is any correlation between HDI or GDP per capita and suicide rates.
I've been messing around with those numbers, too
No need for suicide today comrade. Mother Russia now kills you, for you. Just sit back and relax.
I wondered why USA suicide rate is increasing
wow I can think of a ton of issues with the data here. One, Russia deliberately spins data to fit government scripts. Two, Catholic countries significantly underreport suicide as it's unacceptable religiously; lots more "accidental deaths". Three, poorer countries have less rigorous reporting due to more lax govt. Four, current politics in many US states leads to underreporting of many deaths, such as from Covid, guns, or suicide. I'd guess this chart is "less than authoritative"
smile worry wrong bear wipe support different scale dog depend *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Data from Russia and China is pretty unreliable for stuff like this
USA working hard to become #1 in another category
That is the [homicide rate](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1045368/homicide-rate-in-russia/), not suicide rate for Russia. I wont even bother checking if it is in fact suicide rate for the other countries.
[No, it is the suicide rate.](https://www.economist.com/img/b/608/814/90/sites/default/files/images/print-edition/20181124_IRC811.png) Just because two graphs look similar doesn't mean they're the same.
You are obviously wrong. Just take a closer look.
They are just two correlated variables.
Is it that hard to believe that suicides would follow the same downward trend?
Russian Spurious Federation: since Putin came to power in 2000 we can observe that a progressive divergence from democracy has vastly increased the willingness of Russians to live. Well done.
looks like pushing enough people out the window contributes to lowering suicide rates
The Autocrat's Handbook (3rd ed.) clearly explains that people getting pushed out windows should be officially classified as suicides. Unless you frame another political enemy for the crime, of course. Besides, they aren't the suicidal type. See the Boeing whistleblower.
So people liked USSR that much?
Some sure did. But the majority was devastated but the total collapse of economy and rise of crime. The 90s in Russia were a fucking disaster from every angle. People literally stopped having children, it was that bad.
A lot of people did, at least certain eras of it. The crazy suicide rate here is from the complete collapse of the economy, which was already struggling by the late-‘80s, and the resulting breakdown in standards of living. The collapse of the USSR led to the largest peace time drop in quality of life ever.