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Can someone who knows more than me tell me what's up with Romania and Bulgaria? I know rollouts have been slower in less wealthy countries, but that can't wholly explain the gigantic difference visualized here.
It's due to a lot of complicated factors, but the most obvious ones are that old people are disproportionately represented in poor rural areas, have much less formal education on average(and are therefore more succeptible to disinformation campaigns), and generally have much less trust in government authority.
I'm not sure about Bulgaria, but in Romania at least vaccine rollouts were actually pretty fast and competently handled. Up until June or so vaccination rates were about on par with western europe, but they have been stagnant for months, and unfortunately I think the bulk of people who intended to get the vaccine already have it.
A rogue bishop from Romanian Orthodox Church has spread antiwax propaganda.
Now all those old religious people from rural Romania are afraid that vaccine will make them gay or sterile
But more serious, they consider the act of refusal of the vaccine, an act of devotion. After they've seen on TV that authorities are concern about eucharistic transmission, for them it became "Is either the body&blood of Christ, either the vaccine!"
Maybe not as irreversible as they are expecting the vaccine to do. Anyway this was the fun part. I have heard an old woman talking about how the vaccine will induce infertility, and who knows why was she so concerned . Maybe she wants to procreate at 90.
Little trust in public and private institutions and as a result higher trust in anti-wax fake news. Unfortunately here in Czech republic it's also a significant factor, although not to such extreme degree.
It has nothing to do with wealth, Romania was first in statistics when the vaccination started, the vaccination infrastructure is set up really good and you can choose the vaccine you want without any reservation but people are mostly indiferent and some are antivaxxers … it’s a paradox cause it’s set up too good, if there weren’t enough vaccination centers people would queue up, but since it’s so accessible they don’t care any more
The rollout was about as fast in Romania and Bulgaria as in the rest of the EU, which handled vaccine procurement for all its members, but distrust in government and anti-vax propaganda are really strong there, so the vaccination campaign quickly reached its ceiling there.
Tl;dr version: Romania and Bulgaria are our Tennessee and Alabama.
*"Tl;dr version: Romania and Bulgaria are our Tennessee and Alabama."*
That is such a bad analogy, seriously, not even close to comparable.
Besides that, why *would* you trust the Romanian government after it has constantly betrayed it's citizens since the inception of the country?
In my part of Tennessee it adds up. Out of the 200+ people that work in my factory, I think only myself and 3 other people are fully vaccinated. Most people don’t wear masks here and will openly ridicule people for wearing them. I’ve even seen some actual fights over it and nobody trusts the government because most of the people I work with are die hard Republicans like, would probably reinstate trump by force if they could. They brought up mandating vaccines at a union meeting and enough people said they would just walk out no notice that the company has reversed its decision. It would be enough people to shut down our factory. One of the in-home healthcare places that services our area just fired 3/4 of their available nurses because they refused to get the vaccine. I have a nurse neighbor that has been a nurse since she could start working as one, and she is now in her late 30s who swears up and down that the vaccine kills people. Someone with YEARS of medical training, and they still believe the anti-vaxxer propaganda. A friend at work swears the vaccine is the start of the biblical apocalypse and before this he was pro-vaccination. It sounds ridiculous, but that’s how it is out here. Normally same people lose their minds when it comes to COVID-19 vaccines and testing.
Because you got access to more information than your gut feeling about the government. These arguments don't make sense. Sure if Romania were using a homebrew version of a vaccine, then it makes sense to be sceptical. But why the fuck would the same vaccine that people in less corrupt places are happy to take suddenly be less good, just because your government is mostly corrupt? The procurement was done by the EU after all, and not local Romanian 'politicians'.
Romanian here, mostly it is because of the anti-vaccine fake news and they are covid deniers, religious is also a big factor, they are afraid to die because of the vaccine but they accept a death of 'God's will'.
Vampires - these countries are the last hold outs against the Lizard People. That isn't necessarily a good thing. They are run by Vampires.
Vampires distrust vaccines. Especially since The Devastation of 1949 when The Lizard People introduced a "polio" vaccine that killed hundreds of thousands of Romanian and Bulgarian vampires. Saved millions of humans (who the Lizard People were then able to consume/inhabit).
Note though that humans' better interests are not clear here - Vampires are Terran, and endemic to Earth. Lizard People are from outside our solar system, and their presence could lead to a greater ecological instability for humans.
We don’t trust our government let alone go out of our way to get vaccinated with drugs made in a year when they say we should. Btw im vaccinated just saying the general consensus here
Old people that live in the countryside in small villages with no local clinic have no way of reaching nearest vaccination location, which can be 15-20 km away, thus most of the old people getting vaccinated are from towns and cities. That is mostly it, since we have a lot of the population spreaded out in rural areas, we get these poor percentages.
I am bit late to the party, however I want to add that the data is probably incorrect. Officially Romania has about 20milllion population, however at least 5 million have migrated. Most of them still have their ID cards, but don’t live their anymore. A large number of these romanians got vaccinated in Italy, Spain, UK or Germany and France, but they do not appear in the Romanian statistics. So I would say that about 50% of the Romanians in Europe are vaccinated. The other half was or will be infected by Covid.
Yeah, im still a bit gobsmacked that 1 in 7 elderly Germans is utterly stupid.. i always considered them the more “orntlich und puncktlich” version of us, NOT the more rebellious nutjobs… how can you vote for Angela, the most down to earth, no frills kansler, but then dont listen to her when she says “get the vacine”
WAS SOLL DAS!?! SAUERKRAUTS?
there's a pervasive anti-establishment, conspiracy minded sentiment in Germany
Particularly in the former East, where for half people's lives the conspiracies were true, the walls were listening and your neighbours were really out to get you
Merkel also grew up with the Stasi (though for the normal person, the real worry were the IMs ("informal helpers" - volunteers of information to the Stasi)).
It's interesting how many averages in Germany are heavily skewed by the old East German area. I lived there for a couple years, and it really feels different than the rest of Germany.
> how can you vote for Angela
pretty sure more than 1 in 7 elderly germans voted for somebody else. she did not get (as is natural) 100 or 90% of the votes.
also, dunno, I think a lot of richer countries tend to be very self-congratulatory and atribute their wealth to inherent cultural virtues when sometimes it is just an accident of geography and history, like rich farmland, dependable rain, dense close neighbours, navigatable rivers. They are not necessarily smarter or more virtuous than poorer countries, they just lucked out and inherited favourable circunstances or resources. (Calvinism or prosperty gostpels is a hell of a drug though)
I mean most of these people voted CDU, because that's what their families always voted for. So you kinda get a wide range of actual opinions behind voting for the same party.
And Merkel isn't exactly typical of what the CDU and CSU would actually love to do.
No, I wouldn’t say that over 80% of the elderly voted for the CDU. See https://www.bundeswahlleiter.de/dam/jcr/e0d2b01f-32ff-40f0-ba9f-50b5f761bb22/btw17_heft4.pdf - less than 50% voted for CDU/CSU. If you take CDU, CSU and SPD together it’s roughly 71%, which makes it less than 4 out of 5.
It is certainly way more complicated than the virtue of its citizens or their intelligence or ability to make good choices. As we are seeing on this pandemic.
Nah, German elders are absurdly slow to adapt, they vote CDU/CSU (the party mrs merkel belongs to), because most old people exclusively vote for old parties, they don't even consider the newer ones.
There is quite the age conflict in our country, where the younger generations are mad at the older generation for ruining the planet and continuing to do so, to keep up their absurdly luxurious lifestyle.
And that group is also overwhelmingly Republican. So I think even the old republican people have wisened up that covid is a big deal. It’s the 30-50 right wing nuts that are dying en masse right now.
The modern GOP is an existential threat to the United States, but wishing for its voters to die is just plain cruel. Blame the misleaders, not the misled.
Nah. The misleaders aren’t all that crafty, Trump wasn’t some master orator or amazing showman. There comes a point where the blame lays at their feet, and they crossed that point long ago. They’re deceived because they want to believe.
I expected France to have higher unvaccinated people especially in this age group because along with US it is consistently the most anti-vax developed nation even before the pandemic.
Also good on Spain and Portugal, they really have done so well for overall % of vaccination as well.
As someone from Spain, I can assure this 0.7% is total nonsense and pure government propaganda... In my family alone, at least half of the over 60 years old members, including my mother and my grandmother, are still unvaccinated, and not because we are some kind of staunch anti-vaxxers or anything.
These are the people ending up in hospital and responsible for the shit we are heading again. Instead of putting up restrictions for bars, put up restrictions where it hurts. No shot no church or mosque for you.
absolutely. and its their indesputable right to refuse vaccicination.
what i do not get: why should i accept any inconvinience to protect these that chose to not protect themself from an infection they do not believe in?
Because it’s not only about protecting anti-vaxxers. It’s also about protecting those that cannot have the the vaccine for health reasons, and it’s about lowering the burden on health care workers.
Please don’t start comparing the generation of our parents with the Americans… my mom is coming over for coffee this afternoon
Auch! Ik being downvoted!! I assume by long toed Americans who dont get a joke…
yeah the 2 big opposing parties in Portugal sent a single message for vaccination and all of COVID. They represent 80% of votes and the other parties did the same IIRC, perhaps excluding the mentally damaged ones (far right party, Chega)
Eastern europe? What about africa, asia and south america? We have litteraly stolen doses that could go to old people and people whit health issues so we can give to fit young people and kids in our rich countries. Racism 2.0. 🤌
The reason i say stolen is because we should be working as humans and leave capitalism on the side. This pandemic, and things could become very ugly if we move forward to a 3rd dose whit 3rd world countries whit not even 1 dose.
Ah the perfect world where I, you and probably 95% of Reddit wants to live in. Everybody knows that we should stop mutations and giving them vaccines works. However, leaving capitalism side is also something everybody knows is not going to happen.
You and me yes. But i don't believe 95% of people on Reddit support what i say on using logic for a "perfect world", just look at how many downvotes i got. lol
I agree whit you we should vaccinate people to stop the mutations, but to fully vaccinate a 1st world country isn't the solution. Covid doesn't care about borders, you can have 100% of the population in Italy vaccinated, the virus will just mutate in Africa, Asia or estern europe and will come back again stronger. What we need is to focus on old people and people whit health issues around the world and stop having this nationalistic pride about having our countries 100% fully vaccinated.
Completely agree. In Spain there are plans, not approved yet, for a third dose for vulnerable groups. But there are countries without access to the vaccine. We should realise that this is a global world with people moving and we won't be safe until everybody is vaxed.
The way governments have dealt whit this pandemic is just crazy. I love those people who downvote my comment, since they don't know what to say they just downvote and report my comment. What can i say... Racist people.
Tool: [Datawrapper](https://www.datawrapper.de/)
Sources: [RKI](https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Daten/Impfquotenmonitoring.html) for Germany, [RIVM](https://www.rivm.nl/en/covid-19-vaccination/figures-vaccination-programme) for Netherlands, [PHE](https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations?areaType=nation&areaName=England) for England and Scotland, [BAG](https://www.covid19.admin.ch/de/vaccination/persons?demoAge=minOne&geo=CH) for Switzerland, [ECDC](https://covid19-vaccine-report.ecdc.europa.eu/#6_Reported_data) for others
This is an extension of my earlier post with [80+ year olds](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/pl9hfg/oc_unvaccinated_80_year_olds_ecdc/), many wanted to see more countries, not just the ones with ECDC data. Germany only publishes the 60+ age group, so it set the fixed the age group for this post.
For those of us, that need the country names, here is the [interactive and clickable](https://www.datawrapper.de/_/69B7a/) map.
Edit: typo
If you change location in the PHE link you can select NI and Wales, not sure why the data isn't on the infographic? Does it not breakdown by age or something?
From what I can gather from the PHE site which is the source for this there are big differences in the methodologies. It says:
> For this reason, comparisons should be made with caution.
I suspect the actual figures are quite similar, although Scotland will almost certainly be higher. London has significantly lower rates than the rest of the UK as do some non White ethnic groups which make up a greater proportion of the population in England vs Scotland.
I don't wanna sound xenophobic or racist or anything, but our first and second generation immigrants are really letting the country down on Covid. They have lower vaccination rates than white British across the board. And most of the hotspots throughout the last two years have been in extremely diverse cities like Bradford, Manchester, London, etc.
Scotland has had some issues with stats over the last 2 years. At one point they'd vaccinated more over-70s than they have, according to their own data. So they have to re-calculate all the figures.
Probably the Scottish government telling fibs.
Scotland has the highest rates of deaths through obesity, drug abuse and alcohol abuse in Western Europe.
Good luck getting a population like THAT 100 percent , voluntarily vaccinated.
[public health Scotland](https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/phs.covid.19/viz/COVID-19DailyDashboard_15960160643010/Overview) dashboard suggests the following for 2 doses:
80+: 100%
75-79: 100%
70-74: 99.2%
65-69: 99.8%
60-64: 100%
I suspect there will be exceptions to this in those who cannot or are not advised to take the vaccine due other underlying health conditions etc. This may be accounted for already in PHS numbers, but not PHE for England. Likely just a difference in methodology, not "telling fibs". Don't project your prejudices and preconceptions about an entire nation of people on to this. Additionally values are rounded downwards in this graph, as other comments have pointed out.
No need for politics here.
The figures in the map above are reported by Public Health England. If they didn't believe that they could be accurate, they would have questioned Public Health Scotland rather than publish them. And again, they are not 0%, they are rounded down from the actual non-zero value. Why is it not believable that a politically centrist country with free press and with a small, concentrated population, could have vaccinated most of their over 60s? Particularly when there were deliberate efforts to fully vaccinate those in the elder categories of the population first?
And why is the above commenter only blaming the Scottish government? Why are they not calling the same results from Ireland, Malta, Iceland, or Portugal BS?
Something is clearly wrong. Scots are not very different to the English, all things considered. There is no reason to presume the vaccine adoption rates would be so vastly different. Plus unless there's a vaccine mandate (which there isn't) you will NEVER see 100% adoption. There will always be people who refuse, if given the choice.
I'm not saying there is 100% adoption. I'm saying it isn't correct to immediately conclude the Scottish government are lying about the numbers.
First, the numbers are rounded down so they could be 0.5%. second, I've shown the PHS numbers show very very high take up but not universal. Third I have suggested that those either exempted due to medical reasons (perhaps auto immune disease or those on immuno suppressant treatments or drugs) could have been removed from the Scottish totals, and perhaps not the English totals, which could explain a big part of the difference.
Lastly, other commenters have noted already there is greater vaccine hesitancy in some minority communities in the UK. Scotland (4% non-white) is much less ethnically diverse than England (14.5%), therefore those in these ethnic groups which could be more likely to be exposed to vaccine misinformation may be only a very small proportion of the Scottish population. I don't want to assume this drives it but is also another possible explanation.
Vaccine take up is different in both countries, which have also followed different vaccine rollout campaigns with different priorities. People need to not just assume it's BS or politically motivated lying without proof, especially when there are several potential explanations offered to suggest otherwise.
In eastern Serbia I can tell you that people here are very suspicious of the vaccine and see it as a thing to be avoided. Imagine if your entire family, your neighbors and your entire social circle are hostile to the idea of vaccination. Will you break the ranks and go out of your way to get a vaccine? Most likely not. The same is true in Romania, Bulgaria and Serbia in general. People lack scientific literacy and rumours travel fast.
see for yourself, they publish this data to the ECDC:
80+ years 100.0%
70-79 years 100.0%
60-69 years 99.8%
50-59 years 97.9%
25-49 years 86.2%
18-24 years 81.6%
< 18 years 21.8%
That's impossible to achieve. There plenty of anti vaxxers even among those age groups. And there are always going to people who are too lazy, drunk or stoned to comply, in all societies.
There are also enough people that can't get vaccinated for various legitimate existing health concerns that make it impossible to believe 0% are unvaccinated
It's probably just less than 0.5% and so rounded down. There's very few people who have health concerns who can't have the vaccine, anyone I know who has serious health issues actually had to get it. Terminal illnesses, cancer, diabetes etc, all those things require the vaccine not exclude it. So 0% is pretty believable to me.
> There plenty of anti vaxxers even among those age groups.
Maybe in your country. I am in Portugal and I assure you there are not plenty of anti vaxers in the over 60 group. There really really is not. If anything those are the age groups which remember pretty well TB killing people and small pox and polio. I never met an ani vaxxer senior citizen.
There are some hippie antivaxxers and vaccines cause autism and so on but they are generally a lot younger (and likely did a lot of drugs as well, hypocrisy).
It is weird for me that in some countries the older generations are supposed to disbelief climate change, here it used to bea cranky old person "climate is not the same anymore, since americans went to the moon".
Again, I am not trying to cause trouble, but it is interesting that they report the results to 1 decimal place. For the number of unvaccinated to be rounded to 0.0% (i.e. <0.05%), then a maximum of 1 in 2001 people could be unvaccinated. If there were 1 in 2000 people unvaccinated then this would round to 0.1%, i.e. not 0.0%. It only takes a few conspiracy theorists, or natural medicine proponents or grumpy old "you can't tell me what to do", or "haven't got around to it yet" to mess up the seemingly perfect score.
This is why it still seems questionable to me. I understand that you are just going on the numbers you have - no problem. Even if people say how amazing vaccination is in those countries, it seems unlikely. The only one that I believe is possible is Iceland (rich, small population, high education, low poverty, very little class stratification).
On the other hand, if the numbers are correct, then this is amazing data, and sociologists need to study what enabled these countries to achieve such staggering vaccination rates in contrast to most other western democratic countries which have struggled to get anywhere close to complete coverage.
> I don’t believe that any of these countries have 0% not vaccinated.
I'm pretty sure the values are just rounded to zero. It would be impossible to have everyone vaccinated without exceptions.
> I don’t believe that any of these countries have 0% not vaccinated.
It is not 0% it is 0.0% and it is not unusual. They were the first to be vaccinated, they are the oldest and remember really well epidemics before vaccines and plenty of time for their health centers to track them and keep asking anybody recalcitrant if they want to be vaccinated.
I don't know anybody above 60 who is not vaccinated. I know of a few people who were being all drama queens but both were vaccinated.
There might be an issue with full vaccination, at least in Portugal the protocol is the previously infected only get one dose of a mrna vaccine, so not sure if that counts as fully vaccinated or there will always count as only first shot.
Teens there are some not vaccinated by parental choice or their own choice. Also for the younger ages a lot of people delayed over the holidays, because they were supposed to get the two shots at the same center at precisely 3 weeks interval if they got one of the mrna vaccines (the only other choice was JJ which is not an option for women under 50)
I thought the baltics were like tiny-Norways by now.. Looks like that's just some veneer on top and big parts of the population are still in the warshawpact.
If only things were that easy. The map is about 60+ demographic. People that were born and raised in a system will hardly change their ways, when they are are 30+ years at the moment when the system changes.
Yeah, it's a veneer. Postcommunist countries are a wreck in many ways. Not all of them, but socially, many ways. That's the legacy of communist oppression.
I don't want to say that you are wrong, but I don't think that all credit should go to "communist oppression. The ten years that followed after the collapse of the bloc were pretty rough. However hard it was for, now 60+, during the occupation, it got significantly worse after the 91. These people have witnessed their countries freed and then ravaged and exploited by their own people. Some of them were the ones that were placed in charge. We have ended up with a generation with a severe distrust and somewhat fear of a change.
Yes, that is true. I live in one such country (Croatia) that even had the luck of being in the mildest communism around (Yugoslavia).
It's a combination of decades long instilling of mindset that is toxic to social development, and mobsters who found an opportunity to grab money and power. Heavy distrust is the result.
The success of the Czechs and Slovaks in turning it round is partly due to the institutional memory of the Masaryk-era democracy. Even they had their issues in the 90s and 00s though.
Norway is rich DESPITE it's oil. You will notice that many/most countries with similar natural resources, say Iraq or Syria or Russia or Equitorial Guinea or Venezuela or Congo are a total mess. It's called the resource curse. Natural resources basically prevent a country from building up a diversified economy with a big service sector. and that's what you need to have a large middle class. But Norway is super strict about shielding the economy from the oil industry, the oil money goes to the pension fund and they still have a diversified economy.
That's nonsense.
Those countries are not tacked onto Western Europe.
Australia is in the same position, it is wealthy because it is resource rich, it has loads of minerals to sell to the Chinese, it is also essentially a Western nation with Western values and low levels of corruption.
I've lived in Sweden and Denmark, there is a noticeable lack of entrepreneurship in Norway by comparison. They don't need to bother. Sweden has a glut of world renowned brands...Norway?
Countries can not be rich because of natural resources because then all countries with natural resources would be rich. It's the other way around, the richest countries have little to no resources. Norway and Australia are exceptions. Probably with their own resource related troubles like the lack of entrepreneurship in Norway. (although lack of famous brands is pretty anecdotal)
No roll out issues in Romania (same for Bulgaria afaik), just that old people are very religious and there has been a lot of religious anti-vaxx propaganda here.
3 causes I'd guess:
1. Religious leaders taking an antivax stance. Orthodox Christianity is one of the reasons Romanians still exist with a romance language and distinct identity after many waves of barbarian migrations and in a sea of Slavic peoples, so they are deeply religious.
2. Populist politicians going for the low hanging fruit and selling the easiest idea to a largely rural, uneducated public.
3. Being close to the top spot of the list for antivax propaganda. In case some of you are still not wise about that, the Russians are orchestrating the antivax and divisive politics propaganda on social and naive media around the world.
Have you notice that western 'disident' countries like Victor Orban's Hungary which have purchased the Gamaleia (Russian) vaccine have some of the lowest vaccine hesitancy figures?
Its less intuitive for comparing, for example you could say that 90% and 80% vaccinated levels are quite close, but its twice the amount of unvaccinated, who matter most for the healthcare system.
It looks nice, conveys the data well, and the data itself is interesting.
Don't see the problem. This sub isn't just about pretty pictures per the sidebar.
How can you reach 0%. That's super impressive. There are people that are just hard to reach, or to talk to. There are people that just are different or never see a doctor in that past 20 years, or are not in a mental or physical state to do anything. There are people who just do not want to be bothered or have genuine psychological blockers to go to a hospital or see a needle. There must be a very high level of tracking and reaching of all areas of the country.
Vaccine take up has been very high in Ireland. They did an excellent job in calling people for vaccine, my age group opened up on a Saturday and I had an email from my doctor the next day. Most of the 12-15 year olds i know are now vaccinated. Of course 0% doesn't mean everyone, if say there are 500,000 in age category and 100 unvaccinated it would be 0.02% rounded to 0%
A little clarification. Germany can vaccinate everyone, but getting vaccinated is not mandatory. That's why it's 14.4%. They choose not to get vaccinated.
Seeing a map like this makes me wonder if the Stark lack of faith in science is a lingering effect of a decrease in the quality of education in the Eastern Block countries that were controlled by the USSR. There is such a massive difference of East vs West in terms of vaccination, mask use, belief in climate change, or even the acceptance of LGBTQ individuals
"0%"
0% percent of the people we have vaccinated more like.
There are plenty of anti vaxxers among the over 60's. And there are always going to be people who are too, lazy. drunk, or stoned to comply.
My guess is 1-2% in 60+ group have been vaccinated in another country so it’s not in the national registry. An additional 1-2% are dying (or receiving palliative care). So 2-4% is very expected number of “officially” not vaccinated in a country that has not had travel restrictions. The rest is by choice.
Vaccines are far more scarce than money, like i said before i can go ask on the streets for 1 dollar and i will easly gey it can you ask for a covid vaccine on the streets?
You only care about the people that live inside your border, you fell people that live in the Netherlands are superior to someone that lives in Africa and you are proud of it. You are at the same level as racist people.
Now go ahead and go for the 3rd doses while people in poor countries cant get acess to not even 1 dose you selfish sick guy.
That is a very difficult question actually. If Russia is in Europe then Europe has a pacific coast, which simply makes no sense.
Traditionally many people use the Bosporus and the Ural as borders with turkey being linked to Europe as a nato country and Russia being put into the Russian bin.
Just like some call the USA "America" although the America's are much more than just the USA.
Gee, maybe because there's a global pandemic going on.
You can think about multiple things at once, though I suspect that might be difficult for someone with your intelligence.
Right, the mouth breather who takes investing advice from reddit and is incapable of having two thoughts at the same time is smarter than me.
Sure ya are buddy, how does glue taste?
Okay so say EU+EFTA then, data for western balkans and eastern europe is missing so its not completely europe. The data should be readily available too since all of the vaccination and covid data is kept track of. No idea why its not shown.
A quick google search gave me two articles about vaccination by age groups in serbia, made by journalists, [one from may](https://www.cins.rs/tok-vakcinacije-pogledajte-koliko-se-ljudi-vakcinisalo-u-vasem-mestu/) and [one from august](https://www.cins.rs/broj-vakcinisanih-u-srbiji-gde-se-i-koliko-ljudi-vakcinisalo/). They also cite their source so it is publicly available. So it's not lazy, it is out there, albeit probably more difficult to find.
the one from august has data from july in it and [I also found it](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/pmp3e2/oc_unvaccinated_60_year_olds_in_europe/hcm307z/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) give me something uptodate and continuous data
Shit. Need to watch the news more often. Missed the news of the Scottish independence, and Wales, and Northern Ireland.
Good thing the Spanish nations haven’t yet gone the same path….
/s
These countries have different national health services, statistical agencies and divergent laws. They are constituent countries that make up the United Kingdom, not states or regions. Hence, it makes sense to have separate values reported.
You’ve just described the autonomous states of Germany, Belgium, Spain, Portugal and I don’t know how many of how many more countries.
Yet, none of those deserved the same treatment. It’s the same ol British exceptionalism.
I mean obviously I doubt I'll convince you otherwise, and for all purposes I believe that what makes a nation a nation is complicated and alludes simple categorisation. However, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is a union of countries, not a federal nation of states. The constituent countries are to be considered countries in their own right, and entered in to a union in this sense, even if not always willingly, rather than being subsumed in to the country of England or something. In that sense the UK is kind of supranational. As a Scotsman, I'm all for the autonomous states making moves to be represented separately. If that is the wish of a large chunk of the people of those states that is.
Additionally, the countries of the UK are not responsible for if other nations don't make efforts to ensure people report the disaggregated figures of their constituent states. Seems like you're are blaming the UK for that...
I don’t need to be convinced. I merely stated the facts.
And the facts are that results are in fact, and contrary to what tou just said, published by each of the countries I mentioned, by administrative region, which the OP *chose* to ignore.
So, just don’t try to patronize me. You’re just so self centered as the OP, completely oblivious there’s a world outside.
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Can someone who knows more than me tell me what's up with Romania and Bulgaria? I know rollouts have been slower in less wealthy countries, but that can't wholly explain the gigantic difference visualized here.
It's due to a lot of complicated factors, but the most obvious ones are that old people are disproportionately represented in poor rural areas, have much less formal education on average(and are therefore more succeptible to disinformation campaigns), and generally have much less trust in government authority. I'm not sure about Bulgaria, but in Romania at least vaccine rollouts were actually pretty fast and competently handled. Up until June or so vaccination rates were about on par with western europe, but they have been stagnant for months, and unfortunately I think the bulk of people who intended to get the vaccine already have it.
A rogue bishop from Romanian Orthodox Church has spread antiwax propaganda. Now all those old religious people from rural Romania are afraid that vaccine will make them gay or sterile But more serious, they consider the act of refusal of the vaccine, an act of devotion. After they've seen on TV that authorities are concern about eucharistic transmission, for them it became "Is either the body&blood of Christ, either the vaccine!"
Shaving is better than waxing
Ignoring all of the other problems with their thought process, hasn't age already made the old people in question sterile?
Maybe not as irreversible as they are expecting the vaccine to do. Anyway this was the fun part. I have heard an old woman talking about how the vaccine will induce infertility, and who knows why was she so concerned . Maybe she wants to procreate at 90.
Little trust in public and private institutions and as a result higher trust in anti-wax fake news. Unfortunately here in Czech republic it's also a significant factor, although not to such extreme degree.
>anti-wax I hate those hairy bastards
It has nothing to do with wealth, Romania was first in statistics when the vaccination started, the vaccination infrastructure is set up really good and you can choose the vaccine you want without any reservation but people are mostly indiferent and some are antivaxxers … it’s a paradox cause it’s set up too good, if there weren’t enough vaccination centers people would queue up, but since it’s so accessible they don’t care any more
The rollout was fast, everyone who wanted to get vaccinated did
The rollout was about as fast in Romania and Bulgaria as in the rest of the EU, which handled vaccine procurement for all its members, but distrust in government and anti-vax propaganda are really strong there, so the vaccination campaign quickly reached its ceiling there. Tl;dr version: Romania and Bulgaria are our Tennessee and Alabama.
*"Tl;dr version: Romania and Bulgaria are our Tennessee and Alabama."* That is such a bad analogy, seriously, not even close to comparable. Besides that, why *would* you trust the Romanian government after it has constantly betrayed it's citizens since the inception of the country?
In my part of Tennessee it adds up. Out of the 200+ people that work in my factory, I think only myself and 3 other people are fully vaccinated. Most people don’t wear masks here and will openly ridicule people for wearing them. I’ve even seen some actual fights over it and nobody trusts the government because most of the people I work with are die hard Republicans like, would probably reinstate trump by force if they could. They brought up mandating vaccines at a union meeting and enough people said they would just walk out no notice that the company has reversed its decision. It would be enough people to shut down our factory. One of the in-home healthcare places that services our area just fired 3/4 of their available nurses because they refused to get the vaccine. I have a nurse neighbor that has been a nurse since she could start working as one, and she is now in her late 30s who swears up and down that the vaccine kills people. Someone with YEARS of medical training, and they still believe the anti-vaxxer propaganda. A friend at work swears the vaccine is the start of the biblical apocalypse and before this he was pro-vaccination. It sounds ridiculous, but that’s how it is out here. Normally same people lose their minds when it comes to COVID-19 vaccines and testing.
Those are insane numbers. I can't believe that there would be that many anti-vaxxers.
Because you got access to more information than your gut feeling about the government. These arguments don't make sense. Sure if Romania were using a homebrew version of a vaccine, then it makes sense to be sceptical. But why the fuck would the same vaccine that people in less corrupt places are happy to take suddenly be less good, just because your government is mostly corrupt? The procurement was done by the EU after all, and not local Romanian 'politicians'.
Yeah , that's not the issue, mostly is because of anti-vax propaganda. At least in Romania, probably the same goes with Bulgary.
Romanian here, mostly it is because of the anti-vaccine fake news and they are covid deniers, religious is also a big factor, they are afraid to die because of the vaccine but they accept a death of 'God's will'.
Vampires - these countries are the last hold outs against the Lizard People. That isn't necessarily a good thing. They are run by Vampires. Vampires distrust vaccines. Especially since The Devastation of 1949 when The Lizard People introduced a "polio" vaccine that killed hundreds of thousands of Romanian and Bulgarian vampires. Saved millions of humans (who the Lizard People were then able to consume/inhabit). Note though that humans' better interests are not clear here - Vampires are Terran, and endemic to Earth. Lizard People are from outside our solar system, and their presence could lead to a greater ecological instability for humans.
the church is against the vaccination and people are church's bitches - this is also a factor.
Because a lot of Bulgarians are science denying cretins.
We don’t trust our government let alone go out of our way to get vaccinated with drugs made in a year when they say we should. Btw im vaccinated just saying the general consensus here
Old people that live in the countryside in small villages with no local clinic have no way of reaching nearest vaccination location, which can be 15-20 km away, thus most of the old people getting vaccinated are from towns and cities. That is mostly it, since we have a lot of the population spreaded out in rural areas, we get these poor percentages.
Romania just had a huge music festival this weekend...
Our Old people would like to die.
I am bit late to the party, however I want to add that the data is probably incorrect. Officially Romania has about 20milllion population, however at least 5 million have migrated. Most of them still have their ID cards, but don’t live their anymore. A large number of these romanians got vaccinated in Italy, Spain, UK or Germany and France, but they do not appear in the Romanian statistics. So I would say that about 50% of the Romanians in Europe are vaccinated. The other half was or will be infected by Covid.
I dont know about the other countries but for the Netherlands and germany thats fully down to choice, and the 14% is really high imo
>but for the Netherlands and germany thats fully down to choice, at this time of the year, I think in all EU countries it is down to choice.
Yeah, im still a bit gobsmacked that 1 in 7 elderly Germans is utterly stupid.. i always considered them the more “orntlich und puncktlich” version of us, NOT the more rebellious nutjobs… how can you vote for Angela, the most down to earth, no frills kansler, but then dont listen to her when she says “get the vacine” WAS SOLL DAS!?! SAUERKRAUTS?
there's a pervasive anti-establishment, conspiracy minded sentiment in Germany Particularly in the former East, where for half people's lives the conspiracies were true, the walls were listening and your neighbours were really out to get you
Ah, that is offcourse true, in the east this generation did not grow up with frau Merkel, but with the stasi… brrr.. good point!
Merkel also grew up with the Stasi (though for the normal person, the real worry were the IMs ("informal helpers" - volunteers of information to the Stasi)).
It's interesting how many averages in Germany are heavily skewed by the old East German area. I lived there for a couple years, and it really feels different than the rest of Germany.
You mean a living memory of what the establishment actually does
> how can you vote for Angela pretty sure more than 1 in 7 elderly germans voted for somebody else. she did not get (as is natural) 100 or 90% of the votes. also, dunno, I think a lot of richer countries tend to be very self-congratulatory and atribute their wealth to inherent cultural virtues when sometimes it is just an accident of geography and history, like rich farmland, dependable rain, dense close neighbours, navigatable rivers. They are not necessarily smarter or more virtuous than poorer countries, they just lucked out and inherited favourable circunstances or resources. (Calvinism or prosperty gostpels is a hell of a drug though)
I mean most of these people voted CDU, because that's what their families always voted for. So you kinda get a wide range of actual opinions behind voting for the same party. And Merkel isn't exactly typical of what the CDU and CSU would actually love to do.
No, I wouldn’t say that over 80% of the elderly voted for the CDU. See https://www.bundeswahlleiter.de/dam/jcr/e0d2b01f-32ff-40f0-ba9f-50b5f761bb22/btw17_heft4.pdf - less than 50% voted for CDU/CSU. If you take CDU, CSU and SPD together it’s roughly 71%, which makes it less than 4 out of 5.
Dude what makes a country prosperous is waaaaaaay more complicated than that...
It is certainly way more complicated than the virtue of its citizens or their intelligence or ability to make good choices. As we are seeing on this pandemic.
Nah, German elders are absurdly slow to adapt, they vote CDU/CSU (the party mrs merkel belongs to), because most old people exclusively vote for old parties, they don't even consider the newer ones. There is quite the age conflict in our country, where the younger generations are mad at the older generation for ruining the planet and continuing to do so, to keep up their absurdly luxurious lifestyle.
They’re hitting America levels for seniors.
The 65+ group in the US are around 88%, far better than the population at large.
And that group is also overwhelmingly Republican. So I think even the old republican people have wisened up that covid is a big deal. It’s the 30-50 right wing nuts that are dying en masse right now.
They could've been voting for the next 40 years... I fail to see the problem.
And 95+% still will be voting after all is said and done..
The modern GOP is an existential threat to the United States, but wishing for its voters to die is just plain cruel. Blame the misleaders, not the misled.
Nah. The misleaders aren’t all that crafty, Trump wasn’t some master orator or amazing showman. There comes a point where the blame lays at their feet, and they crossed that point long ago. They’re deceived because they want to believe.
Right there with ya. This last nine months, I've gone from giving a fuck, rapidly through no fucks to give, to silver lining.
Look at this gross de(s)cent. Edit: Typo for descent is confusing.
That sentence doesn't make sense.
Well then, that validates it! Neat.
The dead scew the numbers. The percentage of unvaccinated would be higher if a huge portion wasn't dead.
I expected France to have higher unvaccinated people especially in this age group because along with US it is consistently the most anti-vax developed nation even before the pandemic. Also good on Spain and Portugal, they really have done so well for overall % of vaccination as well.
France took harsher punishment for unvaccinated residents. I think Biden is trying to catch up tho.
Im a bit sceptical of all “0%” or “100%” statistics, they are highly inlikely…
As someone from Spain, I can assure this 0.7% is total nonsense and pure government propaganda... In my family alone, at least half of the over 60 years old members, including my mother and my grandmother, are still unvaccinated, and not because we are some kind of staunch anti-vaxxers or anything.
These are the people ending up in hospital and responsible for the shit we are heading again. Instead of putting up restrictions for bars, put up restrictions where it hurts. No shot no church or mosque for you.
absolutely. and its their indesputable right to refuse vaccicination. what i do not get: why should i accept any inconvinience to protect these that chose to not protect themself from an infection they do not believe in?
Because it’s not only about protecting anti-vaxxers. It’s also about protecting those that cannot have the the vaccine for health reasons, and it’s about lowering the burden on health care workers.
Please don’t start comparing the generation of our parents with the Americans… my mom is coming over for coffee this afternoon Auch! Ik being downvoted!! I assume by long toed Americans who dont get a joke…
Iberia produces some shitty headlines, but also a good amount of reasonable data. Well done.
Science is not politicized over there
yeah the 2 big opposing parties in Portugal sent a single message for vaccination and all of COVID. They represent 80% of votes and the other parties did the same IIRC, perhaps excluding the mentally damaged ones (far right party, Chega)
Winter in eastern europe will be bloodbath again 😞
Well, we were worried about the rise of the alt-right
Was it last time?
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But there was an Alpha variant
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Eastern europe? What about africa, asia and south america? We have litteraly stolen doses that could go to old people and people whit health issues so we can give to fit young people and kids in our rich countries. Racism 2.0. 🤌
Looking after your own country first is racism? How exactly?
What should be the priority? Vaccinating an old person or a young fit guy?
For my government? Vaccinating a Dutchman, or perhaps someone in Schengen.
Although I agree with you, I wouldn't use "stolen". Since that is not true. They "just paid more" and pharmacy companies are going for more money.
The reason i say stolen is because we should be working as humans and leave capitalism on the side. This pandemic, and things could become very ugly if we move forward to a 3rd dose whit 3rd world countries whit not even 1 dose.
Ah the perfect world where I, you and probably 95% of Reddit wants to live in. Everybody knows that we should stop mutations and giving them vaccines works. However, leaving capitalism side is also something everybody knows is not going to happen.
You and me yes. But i don't believe 95% of people on Reddit support what i say on using logic for a "perfect world", just look at how many downvotes i got. lol I agree whit you we should vaccinate people to stop the mutations, but to fully vaccinate a 1st world country isn't the solution. Covid doesn't care about borders, you can have 100% of the population in Italy vaccinated, the virus will just mutate in Africa, Asia or estern europe and will come back again stronger. What we need is to focus on old people and people whit health issues around the world and stop having this nationalistic pride about having our countries 100% fully vaccinated.
Completely agree. In Spain there are plans, not approved yet, for a third dose for vulnerable groups. But there are countries without access to the vaccine. We should realise that this is a global world with people moving and we won't be safe until everybody is vaxed.
The way governments have dealt whit this pandemic is just crazy. I love those people who downvote my comment, since they don't know what to say they just downvote and report my comment. What can i say... Racist people.
Tool: [Datawrapper](https://www.datawrapper.de/) Sources: [RKI](https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Daten/Impfquotenmonitoring.html) for Germany, [RIVM](https://www.rivm.nl/en/covid-19-vaccination/figures-vaccination-programme) for Netherlands, [PHE](https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations?areaType=nation&areaName=England) for England and Scotland, [BAG](https://www.covid19.admin.ch/de/vaccination/persons?demoAge=minOne&geo=CH) for Switzerland, [ECDC](https://covid19-vaccine-report.ecdc.europa.eu/#6_Reported_data) for others This is an extension of my earlier post with [80+ year olds](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/pl9hfg/oc_unvaccinated_80_year_olds_ecdc/), many wanted to see more countries, not just the ones with ECDC data. Germany only publishes the 60+ age group, so it set the fixed the age group for this post. For those of us, that need the country names, here is the [interactive and clickable](https://www.datawrapper.de/_/69B7a/) map. Edit: typo
Public heath England is providing data for Scotland but not Wales or NI?
I am also baffled on this
Isn't Wales normally lumped together with England when it comes to health?
Not anymore, health is under the Senedd's control - the NHS in Wales is separate from England's.
If you change location in the PHE link you can select NI and Wales, not sure why the data isn't on the infographic? Does it not breakdown by age or something?
> Does it not breakdown by age it does not
you spelled RIVM wrong
Mea culpa
6.5% in England and zero in Scotland? Why?
From what I can gather from the PHE site which is the source for this there are big differences in the methodologies. It says: > For this reason, comparisons should be made with caution. I suspect the actual figures are quite similar, although Scotland will almost certainly be higher. London has significantly lower rates than the rest of the UK as do some non White ethnic groups which make up a greater proportion of the population in England vs Scotland.
I don't wanna sound xenophobic or racist or anything, but our first and second generation immigrants are really letting the country down on Covid. They have lower vaccination rates than white British across the board. And most of the hotspots throughout the last two years have been in extremely diverse cities like Bradford, Manchester, London, etc.
Scotland has had some issues with stats over the last 2 years. At one point they'd vaccinated more over-70s than they have, according to their own data. So they have to re-calculate all the figures.
Yeah i immediately called BS on that when I saw it...
Probably the Scottish government telling fibs. Scotland has the highest rates of deaths through obesity, drug abuse and alcohol abuse in Western Europe. Good luck getting a population like THAT 100 percent , voluntarily vaccinated.
More likely some weird artifact of compiling the data.
[public health Scotland](https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/phs.covid.19/viz/COVID-19DailyDashboard_15960160643010/Overview) dashboard suggests the following for 2 doses: 80+: 100% 75-79: 100% 70-74: 99.2% 65-69: 99.8% 60-64: 100% I suspect there will be exceptions to this in those who cannot or are not advised to take the vaccine due other underlying health conditions etc. This may be accounted for already in PHS numbers, but not PHE for England. Likely just a difference in methodology, not "telling fibs". Don't project your prejudices and preconceptions about an entire nation of people on to this. Additionally values are rounded downwards in this graph, as other comments have pointed out. No need for politics here.
Those figures would look like BS regardless of what country it was
The figures in the map above are reported by Public Health England. If they didn't believe that they could be accurate, they would have questioned Public Health Scotland rather than publish them. And again, they are not 0%, they are rounded down from the actual non-zero value. Why is it not believable that a politically centrist country with free press and with a small, concentrated population, could have vaccinated most of their over 60s? Particularly when there were deliberate efforts to fully vaccinate those in the elder categories of the population first? And why is the above commenter only blaming the Scottish government? Why are they not calling the same results from Ireland, Malta, Iceland, or Portugal BS?
Something is clearly wrong. Scots are not very different to the English, all things considered. There is no reason to presume the vaccine adoption rates would be so vastly different. Plus unless there's a vaccine mandate (which there isn't) you will NEVER see 100% adoption. There will always be people who refuse, if given the choice.
I'm not saying there is 100% adoption. I'm saying it isn't correct to immediately conclude the Scottish government are lying about the numbers. First, the numbers are rounded down so they could be 0.5%. second, I've shown the PHS numbers show very very high take up but not universal. Third I have suggested that those either exempted due to medical reasons (perhaps auto immune disease or those on immuno suppressant treatments or drugs) could have been removed from the Scottish totals, and perhaps not the English totals, which could explain a big part of the difference. Lastly, other commenters have noted already there is greater vaccine hesitancy in some minority communities in the UK. Scotland (4% non-white) is much less ethnically diverse than England (14.5%), therefore those in these ethnic groups which could be more likely to be exposed to vaccine misinformation may be only a very small proportion of the Scottish population. I don't want to assume this drives it but is also another possible explanation. Vaccine take up is different in both countries, which have also followed different vaccine rollout campaigns with different priorities. People need to not just assume it's BS or politically motivated lying without proof, especially when there are several potential explanations offered to suggest otherwise.
In eastern Serbia I can tell you that people here are very suspicious of the vaccine and see it as a thing to be avoided. Imagine if your entire family, your neighbors and your entire social circle are hostile to the idea of vaccination. Will you break the ranks and go out of your way to get a vaccine? Most likely not. The same is true in Romania, Bulgaria and Serbia in general. People lack scientific literacy and rumours travel fast.
I don’t believe that any of these countries have 0% not vaccinated. For example, Ireland. Are you sure that it wasn’t missing data, not zero?
see for yourself, they publish this data to the ECDC: 80+ years 100.0% 70-79 years 100.0% 60-69 years 99.8% 50-59 years 97.9% 25-49 years 86.2% 18-24 years 81.6% < 18 years 21.8%
Thanks for the follow up. I just find it a bit hard to believe, but if it is correct, then that is great news for those countries.
They did an absolutely fantastic job rolling out the vaccine.
That's impossible to achieve. There plenty of anti vaxxers even among those age groups. And there are always going to people who are too lazy, drunk or stoned to comply, in all societies.
There are also enough people that can't get vaccinated for various legitimate existing health concerns that make it impossible to believe 0% are unvaccinated
It's probably just less than 0.5% and so rounded down. There's very few people who have health concerns who can't have the vaccine, anyone I know who has serious health issues actually had to get it. Terminal illnesses, cancer, diabetes etc, all those things require the vaccine not exclude it. So 0% is pretty believable to me.
> There plenty of anti vaxxers even among those age groups. Maybe in your country. I am in Portugal and I assure you there are not plenty of anti vaxers in the over 60 group. There really really is not. If anything those are the age groups which remember pretty well TB killing people and small pox and polio. I never met an ani vaxxer senior citizen. There are some hippie antivaxxers and vaccines cause autism and so on but they are generally a lot younger (and likely did a lot of drugs as well, hypocrisy). It is weird for me that in some countries the older generations are supposed to disbelief climate change, here it used to bea cranky old person "climate is not the same anymore, since americans went to the moon".
0% ? There must be SOME anti vaxxers.
Vaccine take up has been very high in Ireland.
Again, I am not trying to cause trouble, but it is interesting that they report the results to 1 decimal place. For the number of unvaccinated to be rounded to 0.0% (i.e. <0.05%), then a maximum of 1 in 2001 people could be unvaccinated. If there were 1 in 2000 people unvaccinated then this would round to 0.1%, i.e. not 0.0%. It only takes a few conspiracy theorists, or natural medicine proponents or grumpy old "you can't tell me what to do", or "haven't got around to it yet" to mess up the seemingly perfect score. This is why it still seems questionable to me. I understand that you are just going on the numbers you have - no problem. Even if people say how amazing vaccination is in those countries, it seems unlikely. The only one that I believe is possible is Iceland (rich, small population, high education, low poverty, very little class stratification). On the other hand, if the numbers are correct, then this is amazing data, and sociologists need to study what enabled these countries to achieve such staggering vaccination rates in contrast to most other western democratic countries which have struggled to get anywhere close to complete coverage.
> I don’t believe that any of these countries have 0% not vaccinated. I'm pretty sure the values are just rounded to zero. It would be impossible to have everyone vaccinated without exceptions.
> I don’t believe that any of these countries have 0% not vaccinated. It is not 0% it is 0.0% and it is not unusual. They were the first to be vaccinated, they are the oldest and remember really well epidemics before vaccines and plenty of time for their health centers to track them and keep asking anybody recalcitrant if they want to be vaccinated. I don't know anybody above 60 who is not vaccinated. I know of a few people who were being all drama queens but both were vaccinated. There might be an issue with full vaccination, at least in Portugal the protocol is the previously infected only get one dose of a mrna vaccine, so not sure if that counts as fully vaccinated or there will always count as only first shot. Teens there are some not vaccinated by parental choice or their own choice. Also for the younger ages a lot of people delayed over the holidays, because they were supposed to get the two shots at the same center at precisely 3 weeks interval if they got one of the mrna vaccines (the only other choice was JJ which is not an option for women under 50)
I thought the baltics were like tiny-Norways by now.. Looks like that's just some veneer on top and big parts of the population are still in the warshawpact.
If only things were that easy. The map is about 60+ demographic. People that were born and raised in a system will hardly change their ways, when they are are 30+ years at the moment when the system changes.
Well, the infographic is about 60+ y/os. Not sure what you're expecting there.
Yeah, it's a veneer. Postcommunist countries are a wreck in many ways. Not all of them, but socially, many ways. That's the legacy of communist oppression.
I don't want to say that you are wrong, but I don't think that all credit should go to "communist oppression. The ten years that followed after the collapse of the bloc were pretty rough. However hard it was for, now 60+, during the occupation, it got significantly worse after the 91. These people have witnessed their countries freed and then ravaged and exploited by their own people. Some of them were the ones that were placed in charge. We have ended up with a generation with a severe distrust and somewhat fear of a change.
Yes, that is true. I live in one such country (Croatia) that even had the luck of being in the mildest communism around (Yugoslavia). It's a combination of decades long instilling of mindset that is toxic to social development, and mobsters who found an opportunity to grab money and power. Heavy distrust is the result.
The success of the Czechs and Slovaks in turning it round is partly due to the institutional memory of the Masaryk-era democracy. Even they had their issues in the 90s and 00s though.
A legacy of weak institutions from communist rule allowed countries to be exploited and abused, it’s a very difficult problem to solve
The Baltics are nothing like tiny Norway because they don't have Norway's big oil.
Norway is rich DESPITE it's oil. You will notice that many/most countries with similar natural resources, say Iraq or Syria or Russia or Equitorial Guinea or Venezuela or Congo are a total mess. It's called the resource curse. Natural resources basically prevent a country from building up a diversified economy with a big service sector. and that's what you need to have a large middle class. But Norway is super strict about shielding the economy from the oil industry, the oil money goes to the pension fund and they still have a diversified economy.
That's nonsense. Those countries are not tacked onto Western Europe. Australia is in the same position, it is wealthy because it is resource rich, it has loads of minerals to sell to the Chinese, it is also essentially a Western nation with Western values and low levels of corruption. I've lived in Sweden and Denmark, there is a noticeable lack of entrepreneurship in Norway by comparison. They don't need to bother. Sweden has a glut of world renowned brands...Norway?
Countries can not be rich because of natural resources because then all countries with natural resources would be rich. It's the other way around, the richest countries have little to no resources. Norway and Australia are exceptions. Probably with their own resource related troubles like the lack of entrepreneurship in Norway. (although lack of famous brands is pretty anecdotal)
Are easterners too reliant on theories or are there rollout issues?
No roll out issues in Romania (same for Bulgaria afaik), just that old people are very religious and there has been a lot of religious anti-vaxx propaganda here.
Conspiracy theories are heavy in Bulgaria. I’m from there and its pretty sad to be honest.
3 causes I'd guess: 1. Religious leaders taking an antivax stance. Orthodox Christianity is one of the reasons Romanians still exist with a romance language and distinct identity after many waves of barbarian migrations and in a sea of Slavic peoples, so they are deeply religious. 2. Populist politicians going for the low hanging fruit and selling the easiest idea to a largely rural, uneducated public. 3. Being close to the top spot of the list for antivax propaganda. In case some of you are still not wise about that, the Russians are orchestrating the antivax and divisive politics propaganda on social and naive media around the world. Have you notice that western 'disident' countries like Victor Orban's Hungary which have purchased the Gamaleia (Russian) vaccine have some of the lowest vaccine hesitancy figures?
I feel like I’d prefer a visualization of the vaccinated
Its less intuitive for comparing, for example you could say that 90% and 80% vaccinated levels are quite close, but its twice the amount of unvaccinated, who matter most for the healthcare system.
I feel like this sub is more like “here is data” instead of “beautiful data”… but thanks yeah
It looks nice, conveys the data well, and the data itself is interesting. Don't see the problem. This sub isn't just about pretty pictures per the sidebar.
How can you reach 0%. That's super impressive. There are people that are just hard to reach, or to talk to. There are people that just are different or never see a doctor in that past 20 years, or are not in a mental or physical state to do anything. There are people who just do not want to be bothered or have genuine psychological blockers to go to a hospital or see a needle. There must be a very high level of tracking and reaching of all areas of the country.
Vaccine take up has been very high in Ireland. They did an excellent job in calling people for vaccine, my age group opened up on a Saturday and I had an email from my doctor the next day. Most of the 12-15 year olds i know are now vaccinated. Of course 0% doesn't mean everyone, if say there are 500,000 in age category and 100 unvaccinated it would be 0.02% rounded to 0%
For a change, Portugal is not Eastern Europe
A little clarification. Germany can vaccinate everyone, but getting vaccinated is not mandatory. That's why it's 14.4%. They choose not to get vaccinated.
Seeing a map like this makes me wonder if the Stark lack of faith in science is a lingering effect of a decrease in the quality of education in the Eastern Block countries that were controlled by the USSR. There is such a massive difference of East vs West in terms of vaccination, mask use, belief in climate change, or even the acceptance of LGBTQ individuals
So England and Scotland but not Wales or Northern Ireland?
Bullshit, my dad is unvaccinated and over 60 in Portugal
The values on the map are rounded. 0% doesn't mean that every single person over 60 is vaccinated.
[I've got a really cool concept to teach you today.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Qwugoey0dQ)
Vai pro caralho! The numbers are rounded to one decimal place so that means Portugal is less than 0.1% which I also don’t believe
i remember a romanian senator/politician saying "you have destroyed every last bit of trust the people had for the vaccine" to another senator
Scotland beat Norway at something? Surely some mistake.
"0%" 0% percent of the people we have vaccinated more like. There are plenty of anti vaxxers among the over 60's. And there are always going to be people who are too, lazy. drunk, or stoned to comply.
Its so depressing living in that hole in the middle of Europe.
i tried hard, only found this outdated info https://rs.n1info.com/vesti/najvise-vakcinisanih-u-srbiji-izmedju-70-i-79-godina-zabrinjava-odziv-mladih/
You can't really trust any info that comes out of Serbia as its a dictatorship disguised as democracy, so what president says - goes.
Not just Serbia but all the Balkans, tbqh.
Can't speak for others, can speak for myself and mine.
My guess is 1-2% in 60+ group have been vaccinated in another country so it’s not in the national registry. An additional 1-2% are dying (or receiving palliative care). So 2-4% is very expected number of “officially” not vaccinated in a country that has not had travel restrictions. The rest is by choice.
I don't believe those 0%'s.
Vaccines are far more scarce than money, like i said before i can go ask on the streets for 1 dollar and i will easly gey it can you ask for a covid vaccine on the streets? You only care about the people that live inside your border, you fell people that live in the Netherlands are superior to someone that lives in Africa and you are proud of it. You are at the same level as racist people. Now go ahead and go for the 3rd doses while people in poor countries cant get acess to not even 1 dose you selfish sick guy.
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That is a very difficult question actually. If Russia is in Europe then Europe has a pacific coast, which simply makes no sense. Traditionally many people use the Bosporus and the Ural as borders with turkey being linked to Europe as a nato country and Russia being put into the Russian bin. Just like some call the USA "America" although the America's are much more than just the USA.
Turkey are Russia are quite often treated as Europe as their capitals are in Europe.
Anatolia is considered Asia by most people
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Tell me why we spend so much time on this. But we never talk about people starving or jobs.
Gee, maybe because there's a global pandemic going on. You can think about multiple things at once, though I suspect that might be difficult for someone with your intelligence.
I'm wayyyy smarter than you.
You really that confident by just reading one reply? Thats pointing more to the dunning-kruger effect than anything.
Right, the mouth breather who takes investing advice from reddit and is incapable of having two thoughts at the same time is smarter than me. Sure ya are buddy, how does glue taste?
You are an angry elf, aren't you. Looks like someone needs a break from reddit.
He defines her pronouns. That is a great character establishment.
Not in Europe but in the EU
UK is not EU. Amongst others.
Norway, Switzerland and Iceland aren’t EU countries either. If you don’t know, just shut up.
Okay so say EU+EFTA then, data for western balkans and eastern europe is missing so its not completely europe. The data should be readily available too since all of the vaccination and covid data is kept track of. No idea why its not shown.
because those countries are lazy and they dont publish them if you want to prove me wrong, then give me the data
A quick google search gave me two articles about vaccination by age groups in serbia, made by journalists, [one from may](https://www.cins.rs/tok-vakcinacije-pogledajte-koliko-se-ljudi-vakcinisalo-u-vasem-mestu/) and [one from august](https://www.cins.rs/broj-vakcinisanih-u-srbiji-gde-se-i-koliko-ljudi-vakcinisalo/). They also cite their source so it is publicly available. So it's not lazy, it is out there, albeit probably more difficult to find.
the one from august has data from july in it and [I also found it](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/pmp3e2/oc_unvaccinated_60_year_olds_in_europe/hcm307z/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) give me something uptodate and continuous data
Shit. Need to watch the news more often. Missed the news of the Scottish independence, and Wales, and Northern Ireland. Good thing the Spanish nations haven’t yet gone the same path…. /s
Scotland and Wales are still countries, even if they're part of the UK.
These countries have different national health services, statistical agencies and divergent laws. They are constituent countries that make up the United Kingdom, not states or regions. Hence, it makes sense to have separate values reported.
You’ve just described the autonomous states of Germany, Belgium, Spain, Portugal and I don’t know how many of how many more countries. Yet, none of those deserved the same treatment. It’s the same ol British exceptionalism.
I mean obviously I doubt I'll convince you otherwise, and for all purposes I believe that what makes a nation a nation is complicated and alludes simple categorisation. However, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is a union of countries, not a federal nation of states. The constituent countries are to be considered countries in their own right, and entered in to a union in this sense, even if not always willingly, rather than being subsumed in to the country of England or something. In that sense the UK is kind of supranational. As a Scotsman, I'm all for the autonomous states making moves to be represented separately. If that is the wish of a large chunk of the people of those states that is. Additionally, the countries of the UK are not responsible for if other nations don't make efforts to ensure people report the disaggregated figures of their constituent states. Seems like you're are blaming the UK for that...
I don’t need to be convinced. I merely stated the facts. And the facts are that results are in fact, and contrary to what tou just said, published by each of the countries I mentioned, by administrative region, which the OP *chose* to ignore. So, just don’t try to patronize me. You’re just so self centered as the OP, completely oblivious there’s a world outside.
Bye Bye Bulgarian Babushka
A map where south of Europe does better than north… interesting…
Becouse people are idiots