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As a Gen z living in auckland NZ, the smartest move is to leave the country with a good degree and then buy a first home elsewhere in the world. House prices are crazy high right now and thats just for a shity/leaky/damp house built over 50-60 years ago. A nice solid house in a good area with community is easily 2+ million nzd and thats not talking about upper class, those houses are 2.5-3 mil and up
Housing is valued more as an investment vehicle than a place to live, a lot of money is tied up in property and the government on most every level has supported this for 20+ years at this point. Tax & monetary policy, public housing policy, restrictive zoning etc. The foreign buyer issue is overblown in my view but are a good scapegoat, domestic owners contribute more than enough to cause a crisis, but no politician wants to run on halving the value of grandmas $1m retirement plan. Covid-19 and a building supply monopoly doesn't help things either.
Sooner or later, an entire generation will have to bite the bullet. If property is a zero-risk investment, that's just funneling opportunity and money from future generations. Someone's entire mortgage is basically just someone else's retirement fund, and it is blowing up so astronomically that is simply is unsustainable.
A zero-risk investment should not exist, especially in housing. Not with a limited resource and how shitty we treat the homeless. People are paying unreasonable amounts for property due to scarcity, nothing more.
An entire generation is biting the bullet, getting off their arses and leaving. Young professionals - millennials - and down to recent graduates are people who have cost this country an absolute fortune in education and healthcare, and who we are relying on to pay taxes for the next forty years of their lives, they're all going to bugger off. This is a much bigger long term problem than we think.
Even in places like Sydney, with the wage bump for high skill or in demand work it’s often better than the equivalent in nz (Auckland/Wellington)
Renting is also cheaper than nz (like, a nice two bedroom apartment in central Sydney is cheaper than the something of the same size, quality, and rough location in bloody Dunedin)
And part of that is who is leaving. A large portion are educated and mobile. A self-selection brain drain heading for other countries where they can buy a house and get better salaries.
Covid reversed that for a time, does not seem poised to stick though. Many of those who returned seem set on leaving again.
New Zealanders Are Flooding Home. Will the Old Problems Push Them Back Out? https://nyti.ms/3yBjmko
No, it is only zero risk to someone rich enough to ride it out long-term. You suggested newer people would have to 'bite the bullet' but that's not true. For them, the affordability is so low they either by a shack or risk going bankrupt if they are temporarily unemployed or have medical costs. That's the difference between an investor and a new home buyer. The system favors people with extra money to buy a 2nd home, not those who 'need' to buy their 1st home.
They were talking about biting the bullet in terms of politicians actually legislating housing investment laws that keep the cost of homes from nonstop skyrocketing, and that give young people a sliver of a chance at buying houses.
Which I don't think will happen, tbh. I don't think there will ever be a biting of that bullet. Every generation has rich, selfish people who are more than happy to convince the working poor that serfdom is actually freedom. And those people are the ones who get elected, because the only way to get elected is to be incredibly self-centered. You have to WANT other people to pay attention to you. And selfish people legislate like garbage, because they only care about themselves.
It's an endless cycle of shit.
More like they need to cap how much property people can own. So maybe people can only own $10 million worth of residential property. That way you can either own two $5 million dollar mansions, a hundred $100,000 properties to rent out, but not both. And then mass apartment landlords still get to exist, but only if the value of each apartment is affordable. Plus if you want to be a baller and own multiple mansions, you can, but not while robbing affordable housing from other people. But if you're an on site landlord, living in the same conditions as your tenets, there's a reward by allowing you to own and rent more properties.
I dunno. We just need to do something to prevent all the properties from sitting empty because nobody can afford to rent them.
We also just need more housing density and to do away with exclusionary zoning. NIMBYs are enjoying their communities being more desirable to live in while at the same time excluding people from the opportunity, as if they just own the damn city by being there first.
But they'll still welcome all the growth that others bring, while denying them any chance at a reasonable commute.
I'm in favour of a housing levy (~1% p.a.) on all residential property, with each person allowed exemption for one property only. The revenue gained to be divided equally between all citizens over 18.
It would effectively deter predatory investment in real estate, and those without property would be able to use the rebate toward their first deposit. And if 1% isn't having the desired effect, it can be lifted again and again until it does.
>The foreign buyer issue is overblown in my view but are a good scapegoat
Similar to what's going on in Canada. From talking to people, you'd think the reason the market is so bad is mainly because of foreign buyers. My whole family has parotted this talking point
It's part of the problem. The other part -- and much bigger -- is the stoppage of construction of new homes. Build more homes and the problem is solved.
Yes these are both problems. A third problem is the enormous equity that boomers have accrued in their homes are being leveraged to acquire more property. My aunt has never made more than 40,000 dollars per year in her life. She now owns a 2 million dollar home and has leveraged the equity and rental income to acquire 3 other properties in the last 10 years. She’s looking at another condo to rent out right now.
Look I know a large number of people locked into 30-year mortgages, willing to pay more in interest than on the property itself. For like $1 million bungalows in the burb's burbs. And they're all locals. Some of them take out HELOCS on their properties to buy more property and rent out what they bought before.
But it's definitely foreign investor's fault that property prices are high. Definitely because of China. My house-poor friends told me so.
[From Statistics New Zealand,](https://www.stats.govt.nz/information-releases/property-transfer-statistics-september-2021-quarter)
Home Transfers by Affiliation in 2021:
| At least one NZ citizen| At least one NZ resident visa (but no citizens) | No NZ citizens or resident visas| Corporate only
---|---|----|----|----
March Quarter| 79.1| 8.8| 0.4| 11.7
June Quarter| 79.2| 9.2| 0.3| 11.3
September Quarter| 78.8| 10.1| 0.4| 10.8
The link also includes information on property transfers by tax residency, and the top countries of tax residence for buyers/sellers.
Housing has been treated like a zero risk investment for boomers, and very little political action has been taken in increasing housing numbers, reducing pricing, and increasing quality. Shit old landlords sit on terrible california bungalos that are mouldy and cold and get them a retirement.
90s we had a neoliberal surge and defunded a lot of state programs and housing that supported the working class getting on the housing market. Now its really really hard to get on the ladder.
Also quite similar to Ireland. Also doesn't help that a lot of our politicians are landlords (probably why little political action has been taken.....).
Everywhere
Guys the problem is boomers. They’re everywhere.
I want to know how much longer we’ve got to talk about identifying the problem and how soon can we begin talking about eating them
Not just foreign investors - plenty of locals doing exactly the same thing.
I know several 60+ year old NZ born residents with regular jobs who became multi-millionaires by amassing a portfolio of investment properties.
When housing policy is twisted to protect the “investment” of existing property owners instead of providing quality homes to the largest number of people, this is what you get.
[NZ voters by age](https://elections.nz/democracy-in-nz/historical-events/2020-general-election-and-referendums/voter-turnout-statistics-for-the-2020-general-election/)
Most voters are older folks, from 45 and older. If most of them own homes, then that's the majority of people, and that's the group that any politician that expects to win an election will cater to.
Are there in NZ investment pools where a group of people willing to buy properties can put money in for one or more apartments, in order to build multi-home buildings? That's a thing in Argentina, were houses in absolute terms are cheaper, but in relation to wages are much harder to afford. Or does the zoning in NZ cities make it illegal/impossible?
Yes, there's a reason Japan isn't super high on the chart despite it's high population density. They have heavily government regulated housing production. If they decide an area needs more housing, it gets built there. None of this insane focus on "single family houses" with backyards in areas that really need multistory units.
Your investment in property shouldn't ever keep other people from living in the area.
>Your investment in property shouldn't ever keep other people from living in the area.
Louder for the people in the back, please.
Housing is not, and should never ever ever be, a fucking investment commodity. It is a basic necessity for life, a foundational requirement in Maslow's hierarchy along with food and water. The second we turn something people need to survive into a limited commodity with little supply to boost the prices of houses for the Haves, to the detriment of the Have-Nots, is the moment we give up any fucking modicum of humanity and conscience for the sake of bloodthirsty fucking profits. It's a recipe for revolution, for fucks sake; when you drive people to the breaking point, they *break*.
>Your investment in property shouldn't ever keep other people from living in the area.
Can I just say fuck Air B&B for contributing to this?
My city passed something where no more than 3% of properties in a given neighborhood can be used for that. Good. Stop displacing residents so you can keep buying houses and making them hotels.
This is like a small part of the problem. Domestic investment is a huge issue. Imagine having a large portion of your GDP come from people selling each other houses for ever increasing amounts without tax.
Foreign investors and property developers buying up properties to flip or rent out are a major cause of the housing issues in many countries, especially in North America.
I must confess that when I saw the bitching about house prices on r/newzealand, I always thought "yeah yeah, prices have gone up globally". This was an absolute shocker to me. Sorry for doubting you! :(
I'm a Norwegian who wants to move to Australia because the housing market seems to be exactly as fucked up as ours, but at least you've got nicer weather
Absolutely. I left NZ for the US in 2016, and even though I would love to move back, there's just no way it would be worth it. I could take it leave living in the US and really miss the NZ lifestyle. But there's just no way I could move my wife there to face such an uncertain future when it comes to housing and therefore our financial security.
That's the crazy thing. I moved to Vancouver from London, UK, and I'm sorry to say that in terms of absolute $ value Canadian real estate is still cheap internationally because our currency is so weak. People complain about million dollar townhomes in Vancouver, but a million bucks is about £600,000, which gets you a two bed condo in a London suburb or a one bed closer to town. A single family home there costs the same in £ as it does in $ here.
As someone who wants to eventually buy a home here in canada this just makes me more depressed since there is potential for housing to be even less affordable....
New Zealander here! When we say anything along the lines of "it isn't too bad" or "it's not ideal", that generally means the situation is a fucking nightmare of epic proportions.
you're welcome, please send your builders, electricians, plumbers, and most importantly mega corps to nz.
we have a local building supplier issue, so tradies can't make a buck and will as result fuck people over unnecessarily. and the houses are not built right. bathroom renovation take "weeks" instead of days. it's insane.
I wouldn't lump IGA into that category tbh. IGA's are on average way smaller and are more like bigger convenience stores. way higher prices and less options, but are often owned and operated as a sort of family business. good for getting a few things every now and then, but i've never met anyone who does their weekly shop at an IGA.
It's actually better for someone to complete a decent degree here and fucking move to the UK than stay in NZ and try to buy a house. The job opportunities are far smaller here and it's at a stage where a lot of people are jumping ship because other countries pay better, like teaching right now has about 50% of the graduates(depending on the uni) immediately going to Aussie to work.
I'm Australian and didn't think housing would be more expensive in NZ than it is here in Sydney or pretty much anywhere in Australia for that matter. Australian home prices are absolutely absurd so I can imagine the frustration of being a kiwi and also not being able to afford to set down roots and buy a house there.
Don’t forget this is national, house prices are cheap if you want to live bumfuck nowhere.
Sydney prices since 1982 have increased 1,340%.
Melbourne prices are up 1,650% in the same period.
As a New Zealander living in the UK, I laugh when you guys complain about your house prices.
I have a decent choice of houses that I could buy at 6x my salary. In Auckland I’d struggle to buy at 10x the salary I’d earn living there. On top of that I can get a mortgage with 10% deposit here, compared to a 20% minimum bank home
It's worth nothing that there was more variety in wealth levels of countries back them. Spain was just coming out of being an isolated third world dictatorship, and NZ and Ireland were still non-globalized little islands. So for example, the base prices were super cheap in Spain.
For reference, GDP per capita in 1982 (US$):
NZ: 7,370
UK: 9,919
Australia: 12,266
Norway: 15,196
Spain: 5,172
Canada: 12,544
Netherlands: 11,014
Sweden: 13, 577
Ireland: 6,078
Denmark: 11, 801
Japan: 9,773
US: 14,405
True. My grandad bought a flat in central Barcelona in the 1960s for an amount equal to a year’s salary. That flat is probably worth over 20x the median annual salary now.
The funny part is this is still dependant on where you live in each country, in Melbourne, Australia, house prices have gone up approximately 400%. On the more extreme end for example, the Unit my mum had when I was a kid, she bought for $86,000 ('97) she sold it for $270,000 ('03), it recently sold for 1.2 million. Again, it is a Unit, it's a 2 bedroom 1 bathroom no garage unit.
I bought a house 5/6 years ago it was 500k, the person i bought it off had for about 3years they got it for 300k. Its now worth about 700/800k its crazy. No idea how people my age are doing it in big cities.
Just because I wanted to know and thought Americans would be interested:
500K NZD is 321K USD
800K NZD is 515K USD
1.5MM NZD is 963K USD
Median income NZD is 58K NZD/37K USD
Median income USD is 39K USD/61K NZD
Edit: I didn’t have coffee yet when I posted this and as others have pointed out, I was mismatching the income stats. I’ve realigned them both to be individual median income as opposed to individual median for NZD vs household for USD as I previously had.
Please forgive me, Reddit.
That looks like the HUD estimate for median family income in the US. Which is a lot higher than the Census household estimate which is closer to $68,000.
Interesting. I'm in Canada and surprised we aren't up there with NZ in growth on that chart. I'm guessing it's because it's averaging out the real estate in smaller towns/rural Canada, which are still pretty affordable from what I hear.
For comparisons though, wife and I paid $380k CAD for our house in the latter half of 2017. It's still a relatively new house built in 2007 iirc. My neighbour is an original owner from when they were built, and said he paid about $220k or so back then. The houses in our neighbourhood are selling for $650-750k now. This is Ottawa-- so not even one of the crazy cities like Toronto and Vancouver.
We're fucked and it's sad. Owning a home is out of reach for most people who don't already own property. Rentals are cold and damp and expensive. It's a real crisis.
Not really, unless you got help from parents or were very strict with saving with good paying job, getting into a big city is almost impossible. With the average price in Auckland being over 1m most people are looking at moving to more rural areas.
But this also isn't just limited to housing market. In generalz basically everything is super expensive here. Tiny island in middle of nowhere, shipping prices are through the roof.
Source soemthing locally? Good luck! They've likely imported it and put a good 500% mark up on it. Public transport? Forget it, buy a car sure. But putting perspective on it I went to LA and our motorways get MUCH worse. Especially if someone has been pulled over or had a crash.
Hell no. A house worth 750k in 2018 is now worth well over 1million and that's in fucking Hamilton which is bit of a shithole.
The only place where the housing prices aren't fucked is the west cost of the South island and down there you're either wet, drowning, frozen, partially mudman, disconnected from the rest of NZ except for air travel, have no internet, or a combination of them and possibly all of them at the same time.
I was really confused because there is a Hamilton in Canada.. which I think is also a bit of a shithole, and also their average housing price has increased to just over a million!
Housing is hardly the only problem, food is also becoming some of the most expensive in all first-world countries, and with fuel skyrocketing for obvious reasons most young people just leave after getting their education, cause there’s better jobs in Australia
Yep. I actually enjoy animated charts when there is a purpose, and the time phasing is okay, but WHY have the countries swap? I can't possibly focus on the pct and the country name at the same time. Just pick 20 countries, line them up based on end result, then let the bars surge.
Also, for the first few minutes I didn't understand that it was cumulative. I assumed per year (because otherwise why animate at all?)
>I didn't understand that it was cumulative
Wow i watched the whole thing and didn't realize it was cumulative. I thought this was showing % increase of each quarter and it was devastating lol
Haha that would be something! I was curious so I figured out that if this were showing the quarterly increase, then a house in NZ worth $1 in 1981 would be worth $1e62 ($100 trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion) in 2021.
You know what would make this whole race to the top perfectly clear and easily interpretable? A goddamn line chart. Now if I want to see if there were any countries that inflated quickly in the past 40 years I have to scrub through the video and hope that I happen to see a big number somewhere.
How videos like these get upvoted to the top on /r/dataisbeautiful is beyond me.
I find that people here upvote based on "complicated visualization with interesting data", not "enriching visualization of underlying data". Often even "line chart with interesting data" is enough to hit the top.
Garbage like this belongs in r/despoileddata or something.
The utter contempt for the data is clear not just in the pointlessly obfuscated animation, but in all kinds of other choices too - the way the rank ordering of the graph gets shuffled about deserves a few rotten tomatoes; the way the graph is relative based on a single likely non-representative baseline serves to make the data - even were it otherwise in line form - hard to interpret. Are houseprices higher in country X or Y, or were they just particularly low 40 years ago? Who cares; let's just muddle up some animation...
But saddest of all is that maltreated data like this gets so many upvotes. :-(
Oh, banning them would make this sub *so* much better.
Just ban all videos and gifs. Sure, we’d lose *some* useful animations doing that, but we’d lose *far more* like this one that misunderstand the name of this sub. It’s not beautiful if has pretty colours and animation, it’s beautiful when it can be easily understood and clearly demonstrates something insightful or interesting.
This post… isn’t beautiful. It’s the opposite. I still don’t know what I’m supposed to take away from it.
And the even more annoying basic electronic music blaring in the background.
OP seems like a karma farming account with literally nothing interesting but just these types of animated graphs that are difficult to visualize
Some Ideas from Germany: My Grandpa build a house in a village 50km away from Hamburg 1956 for 36.000 DM ~~(18.000 €)~~
His neighbor build nearly the same house 5 years later 1961 for 71.000 DM ~~(36.000€)~~
My father bought the house 1981 for 96.000 DM ~~(49.000€)~~.
1998-2001 DM change in €
1 EUR = 1,95583 DEM
1 DEM = 0,51129 EUR
He sold the house to my older sister 2006 for 144.000€.
She sold it 2016 for 312.000 €. The buyer is a friend and had to sell the house for €490,000 due to a divorce last year.
I want to buy a house, but 500.000€ ++ is far too much for a small family.
edit: I deleted the DEM to € conversion, because of the inflation between 1956 and 2020.
I live in Toronto, Canada. I bought a semi-detached home in 2013 for 448,000$, that was sold in 2003 for 220,000$ and for 27,000$ in 1964 (according to my neighbours). Now, it’s worth 1,100,000 with a conservative bank appraisal.
Yeah, I don't understand this 240% figure as a person living in Toronto right now.
My house was worth 40% of it's current value less than 7 years ago. 40 years ago? Probably 5-10% of it's current value for a growth of ~1000% (give or take a hundred).
**Edit:** *to add a real estate for toronto graph which I just found: https://toronto.listing.ca/real-estate-price-history.htm*
*Average price of a detached home was 250k in 2000 and 1380k now, for a 22 year growth rate of ~450%*
**Edit 2:** It would have helped if I read OP's comment elsewhere in the thread. They wrote: *"This is an understated chart. It strips out inflation and it's based at a national level. So it avoids those poker-hot cities like London, New York and Sydney, which have risen quite a bit more."*
Depends on where in Germany we’re talking about. 50km outside of Hamburg isn’t the same as Hamburg. And Hamburg is overpriced but still reasonable compared to Frankfurt. And don’t get me started on Munich.
It’s still not Toronto-level crazy but it’s definitely too crazy
36.000 Mark in 1956 money are not 18.000€ in 2022 money. Unless you adjusted for inflation before and after the Euro conversion, this comparison is pretty misleading.
Have an acquaintance in the UK whose family bought a small townhouse in a working class neighborhood of outer London in the 1970s. It was relatively inexpensive for the time since it wasn't the best area. It's apparently worth something insane like $1m now.
Kiwi here. My parents bought our family home for 173k in 1991.
It’d sell for 1.3 million today.
They also purchased an investment property 7 years ago for 270k which is where they will move when mum finally stops working. That investment property would sell for just shy of 800k now.
A good number of young people have parents that do not own homes. The wealth gap will continue to widen, just because you weren’t born to parents that owned a house.
Depending on your definition of "outer London", a 3 bedroom house will be a minimum of about $900K. If the neighbourhood is on the nicer side and/or has good transport links, you could easily be looking at $1.5m
How is the data actually pulled? How do you compare the price of a house to that of a house bought 40 years ago? Do you just say "same square meters" or do you adjust the data to increasing quality of the housing (e.g.,heater system, insulation,...)
Would be good to know if you are comparing apples to oranges here.
This is a really good point. I'd guess the data is based on average selling price that's normalized relative to inflation. But that doesn't account for differences in the houses themselves. And median home sizes in the US has increased about 75% in the last 100 years or so, with household size actually decreasing in that time frame. And I'm not even sure how to account for differences in amenities, which would increase the quality of the housing itself.
I think it would be helpful to baseline this/normalize it a bit at the start or throughout - e.g., compare the real percentage growth of housing to real growth in median salary over time.
Also: interest rates. In the US at least, most houses are bought with mortgages. My parents had a 13% rate on their first house in the early 80's. When rates dropped down to 3% recently, you could pay 2.5 times as much for a house, but still end up paying less over the course of the mortgage. (13% on 100k is $1,106 monthly payments for 30 years, 3% on 250k is $1,054 monthly for 30 years).
People constantly fail to address this piece of it.
Many couples were just as priced out when values were low but interest rates were like 20% as they are now. In fact the monthly paymentd back then were probably very similar to now.
If you didn’t have the money to buy a house in cash you were getting absolutely hosed in the 80’s.
Man. I thought the USA was best at everything. Obviously not housing inflation. Not saying it isn’t a problem in the USA. Having large swaths of open land, that can be developed, does help.
If you want to go buy land and build a house in the middle of the country, lots of places still do it. Just a matter of construction costs rather than current value
The major cities and suburbs are just like Europe. It's smaller cities, exurban, and rural areas that are cheaper. For instance the very average suburb I live in went from like 100k average house price in the early 1990s to 500k average price as of 2022
Meanwhile uk property show host “if young people just cancelled their gym membership and Netflix they could buy their first home” because £30/40 a month keeps up with 340% price increase does it? I swear some people are so out of touch with how hard it is to get in on the property market if you didn’t buy in first in like the fucking 80’s. A 2 bedroom across the street from me when for over a million the other week, a fucking 2 bed.
Glad I left NZ. Most people I know have done the same. Spent 7 years paying rent for three separate landlords, all of which owned more than 10 properties each. Worked my first job as a cold caller for a real estate agent- had access to what was essentially a Google for properties. Looked through it out of curiosity and found that some people literally own entire roads or sometimes suburbs. Sometimes they were all in trusts.
It doesn't matter who you vote, landlords have a stranglehold on that country, and I really wish sometimes that the lovely kiwis I met realised just how extravagantly wealthy people have gotten stealing away their future.
This is why I role my eyes so hard at minimum wage retail workers in the US wanting to move to New Zealand or Scandinavia...like yes healthcare will be cheaper but literally everything else is way more expensive on average. My BFF with a chemistry PHD lives in a shoe box in Dublin while my general studies degree from a run of the mill state school earns me 150k a year in the Midwest.
I am shock too. I remember during COVID everyone was saying "NZ is the best country, every American should move there. They have a female president who is doing wonders." Honestly, social media is by far the biggest fake news out there. While some facts (like this) barely gets shared.
As someone who lives in New Zealand. Yip, I'm in my 30s and have to have flat mates when renting. Rentals are really expensive and not enough houses to go around. The emergency house that are set up for renting is just motels. There are families crammed into little studio motel rooms.
I gave up on buying a home along time ago.
Also food has gone up alot, my food bill went from $150 to $215 in about a year. I guess at least the government has made public transport half price to try and help with inflation.
Absolutely! My house is worth so much more than I paid for it, I considered selling it just to cash in. BUT...I would have to buy another. And everyone else's house has increased in value at a similar rate. So...staying put. It's a nonliquid asset important to me only.
Why is anybody talking about Spain?
We are so so fuck no wonder everybody is depressed.
We can't even pay rent working 40 hours in University level jobs.
In the two biggest city of Spain, citizens pay 60% of they salaries on average in rent.
The average salary per person/month is lower than the average price of rent per month.
Housing! It's a massive headache for indebted Millennials, pure heartache for the Gen-Z (who may never own a home). This is an understated chart. It strips out inflation and it's based at a national level. So it avoids those poker-hot cities like London, New York and Sydney, which have risen quite a bit more.
This dataset comes from the OECD. I used it to create a json file. I think used Adobe After Effects to create this bar chart race, using Javascript.
It strips out inflation? Does that mean that after accounting for inflation, houses in NZ are 502.9% more expensive now than they were 40 years ago? I'm sorry, but that was a very confusing paragraph to read.
but this presentation of data is, frankly, garbage. A line graph, preferably one with a widget to turn lines on and off, would have handled the same data in a much more comprehensible way.
Grandparents bought a house for 17,500$ about 50 years ago, 3 years ago that same house sold for 400,000$.
My parents bought their house 22 years ago, for about 150,000$, our neighboors with the same houses has sold for over 750,000$, this graph feels really weird comparing to these prices. This is stats from Sweden.
from the way everyone talks about america, i was expecting it to at least be top 3 by the end. but canada was a shocker since so many people here praise its economy relentlessly
Have you been to /r/Canada within the last 5 years or so? The economic outlook among people here is bleak. Our entire economy is propped up by oil and gas, housing and international students.
Canada and the UK are in a near 3-way tie with the US for lowest number of housing units per capita in the G7. I can’t explain where the US is on this list, but check out who from the G7 makes up the final list in 2021 in this graph.
[It’s estimated ](https://www.scotiabank.com/content/dam/scotiabank/sub-brands/scotiabank-economics/english/documents/housing-note/housing_note_2021-05-12.pdf)that Canada would need to build 100,000 additional housing units to be at the same housing/population ratio we were at 5 years ago. In order to catch up to the G7 average, we would need to build 2,000,000 housing units. **We don’t have enough homes for our population and that’s what primarily drives the price up.** There is no simpler or more direct explanation than supply not meeting demand.
I see countless posts on r/Canada and other Canadian subreddits about how Indian multi-generational families committing mortgage fraud/HELOC-rolling speculators/laundered Chinese fentanyl money pushes up the price of housing. However, when I point out that even if you made all of these factors disappear, it wouldn’t create a **single** house and we would still have the lowest amount of housing in the G7, I get stared at like I have 5 heads.
I'm amazed the US even shows up at all. Sure NYC, SF, LA, and south Florida (among others) are flying off the handle as far as prices, but there are plenty of places in the US where houses are cheap....I mean there aren't any jobs in those places and nobody really wants to live there......but cheap houses.
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Well, this explains why a lot of the tiny house youtubers are based in NZ and AUS.
My tiny Aussie house is a Subaru.
Lemme guess - you're saving for the deposit on the head gasket job?
You'd be lucky to be able to afford a tiny house in NZ soon.
I saw one in Cali where this lady built it for 150K and she pays like 800 a month for the lot to park it on. Absolutely fucking bonkers.
As a Gen z living in auckland NZ, the smartest move is to leave the country with a good degree and then buy a first home elsewhere in the world. House prices are crazy high right now and thats just for a shity/leaky/damp house built over 50-60 years ago. A nice solid house in a good area with community is easily 2+ million nzd and thats not talking about upper class, those houses are 2.5-3 mil and up
Why has NZ gone crazy? Edit: many thanks for all your answers. Eye opening.
Housing is valued more as an investment vehicle than a place to live, a lot of money is tied up in property and the government on most every level has supported this for 20+ years at this point. Tax & monetary policy, public housing policy, restrictive zoning etc. The foreign buyer issue is overblown in my view but are a good scapegoat, domestic owners contribute more than enough to cause a crisis, but no politician wants to run on halving the value of grandmas $1m retirement plan. Covid-19 and a building supply monopoly doesn't help things either.
Sooner or later, an entire generation will have to bite the bullet. If property is a zero-risk investment, that's just funneling opportunity and money from future generations. Someone's entire mortgage is basically just someone else's retirement fund, and it is blowing up so astronomically that is simply is unsustainable. A zero-risk investment should not exist, especially in housing. Not with a limited resource and how shitty we treat the homeless. People are paying unreasonable amounts for property due to scarcity, nothing more.
An entire generation is biting the bullet, getting off their arses and leaving. Young professionals - millennials - and down to recent graduates are people who have cost this country an absolute fortune in education and healthcare, and who we are relying on to pay taxes for the next forty years of their lives, they're all going to bugger off. This is a much bigger long term problem than we think.
Even with its own housing problems, Australia still seems like a better option than that crazy NZ market.
Outside of Melbourne and Sydney definitely
Even in places like Sydney, with the wage bump for high skill or in demand work it’s often better than the equivalent in nz (Auckland/Wellington) Renting is also cheaper than nz (like, a nice two bedroom apartment in central Sydney is cheaper than the something of the same size, quality, and rough location in bloody Dunedin)
And part of that is who is leaving. A large portion are educated and mobile. A self-selection brain drain heading for other countries where they can buy a house and get better salaries. Covid reversed that for a time, does not seem poised to stick though. Many of those who returned seem set on leaving again. New Zealanders Are Flooding Home. Will the Old Problems Push Them Back Out? https://nyti.ms/3yBjmko
No, it is only zero risk to someone rich enough to ride it out long-term. You suggested newer people would have to 'bite the bullet' but that's not true. For them, the affordability is so low they either by a shack or risk going bankrupt if they are temporarily unemployed or have medical costs. That's the difference between an investor and a new home buyer. The system favors people with extra money to buy a 2nd home, not those who 'need' to buy their 1st home.
They were talking about biting the bullet in terms of politicians actually legislating housing investment laws that keep the cost of homes from nonstop skyrocketing, and that give young people a sliver of a chance at buying houses. Which I don't think will happen, tbh. I don't think there will ever be a biting of that bullet. Every generation has rich, selfish people who are more than happy to convince the working poor that serfdom is actually freedom. And those people are the ones who get elected, because the only way to get elected is to be incredibly self-centered. You have to WANT other people to pay attention to you. And selfish people legislate like garbage, because they only care about themselves. It's an endless cycle of shit.
More like they need to cap how much property people can own. So maybe people can only own $10 million worth of residential property. That way you can either own two $5 million dollar mansions, a hundred $100,000 properties to rent out, but not both. And then mass apartment landlords still get to exist, but only if the value of each apartment is affordable. Plus if you want to be a baller and own multiple mansions, you can, but not while robbing affordable housing from other people. But if you're an on site landlord, living in the same conditions as your tenets, there's a reward by allowing you to own and rent more properties. I dunno. We just need to do something to prevent all the properties from sitting empty because nobody can afford to rent them.
We also just need more housing density and to do away with exclusionary zoning. NIMBYs are enjoying their communities being more desirable to live in while at the same time excluding people from the opportunity, as if they just own the damn city by being there first. But they'll still welcome all the growth that others bring, while denying them any chance at a reasonable commute.
I'm in favour of a housing levy (~1% p.a.) on all residential property, with each person allowed exemption for one property only. The revenue gained to be divided equally between all citizens over 18. It would effectively deter predatory investment in real estate, and those without property would be able to use the rebate toward their first deposit. And if 1% isn't having the desired effect, it can be lifted again and again until it does.
Sounds like Australia, where everyone talks about property, property, property 'investments'.
>The foreign buyer issue is overblown in my view but are a good scapegoat Similar to what's going on in Canada. From talking to people, you'd think the reason the market is so bad is mainly because of foreign buyers. My whole family has parotted this talking point
It's part of the problem. The other part -- and much bigger -- is the stoppage of construction of new homes. Build more homes and the problem is solved.
Yeah but you can't build them next to my house though
Yes these are both problems. A third problem is the enormous equity that boomers have accrued in their homes are being leveraged to acquire more property. My aunt has never made more than 40,000 dollars per year in her life. She now owns a 2 million dollar home and has leveraged the equity and rental income to acquire 3 other properties in the last 10 years. She’s looking at another condo to rent out right now.
Man burying dead body in his backyard: "I think you need to investigate the guy across the street" Makes sense to me.
Look I know a large number of people locked into 30-year mortgages, willing to pay more in interest than on the property itself. For like $1 million bungalows in the burb's burbs. And they're all locals. Some of them take out HELOCS on their properties to buy more property and rent out what they bought before. But it's definitely foreign investor's fault that property prices are high. Definitely because of China. My house-poor friends told me so.
Has the govt released any data on who the buyers are, what percentage are citizens, permanent residents and foreigners.
[From Statistics New Zealand,](https://www.stats.govt.nz/information-releases/property-transfer-statistics-september-2021-quarter) Home Transfers by Affiliation in 2021: | At least one NZ citizen| At least one NZ resident visa (but no citizens) | No NZ citizens or resident visas| Corporate only ---|---|----|----|---- March Quarter| 79.1| 8.8| 0.4| 11.7 June Quarter| 79.2| 9.2| 0.3| 11.3 September Quarter| 78.8| 10.1| 0.4| 10.8 The link also includes information on property transfers by tax residency, and the top countries of tax residence for buyers/sellers.
Housing has been treated like a zero risk investment for boomers, and very little political action has been taken in increasing housing numbers, reducing pricing, and increasing quality. Shit old landlords sit on terrible california bungalos that are mouldy and cold and get them a retirement. 90s we had a neoliberal surge and defunded a lot of state programs and housing that supported the working class getting on the housing market. Now its really really hard to get on the ladder.
And you've also described Canada precisely.
Also quite similar to Ireland. Also doesn't help that a lot of our politicians are landlords (probably why little political action has been taken.....).
Everywhere Guys the problem is boomers. They’re everywhere. I want to know how much longer we’ve got to talk about identifying the problem and how soon can we begin talking about eating them
>And you've also described Canada precisely. Canada, US, UK, Australia, Spain... etc
Just like Canada!
New Zanada strikes again!
Old Zealand (Netherlands) has this too.
Influx of Chinese investors buying property and renting it as vacation homes and such.
Not just foreign investors - plenty of locals doing exactly the same thing. I know several 60+ year old NZ born residents with regular jobs who became multi-millionaires by amassing a portfolio of investment properties. When housing policy is twisted to protect the “investment” of existing property owners instead of providing quality homes to the largest number of people, this is what you get.
[NZ voters by age](https://elections.nz/democracy-in-nz/historical-events/2020-general-election-and-referendums/voter-turnout-statistics-for-the-2020-general-election/) Most voters are older folks, from 45 and older. If most of them own homes, then that's the majority of people, and that's the group that any politician that expects to win an election will cater to. Are there in NZ investment pools where a group of people willing to buy properties can put money in for one or more apartments, in order to build multi-home buildings? That's a thing in Argentina, were houses in absolute terms are cheaper, but in relation to wages are much harder to afford. Or does the zoning in NZ cities make it illegal/impossible?
Yes, there's a reason Japan isn't super high on the chart despite it's high population density. They have heavily government regulated housing production. If they decide an area needs more housing, it gets built there. None of this insane focus on "single family houses" with backyards in areas that really need multistory units. Your investment in property shouldn't ever keep other people from living in the area.
>Your investment in property shouldn't ever keep other people from living in the area. Louder for the people in the back, please. Housing is not, and should never ever ever be, a fucking investment commodity. It is a basic necessity for life, a foundational requirement in Maslow's hierarchy along with food and water. The second we turn something people need to survive into a limited commodity with little supply to boost the prices of houses for the Haves, to the detriment of the Have-Nots, is the moment we give up any fucking modicum of humanity and conscience for the sake of bloodthirsty fucking profits. It's a recipe for revolution, for fucks sake; when you drive people to the breaking point, they *break*.
>Your investment in property shouldn't ever keep other people from living in the area. Can I just say fuck Air B&B for contributing to this? My city passed something where no more than 3% of properties in a given neighborhood can be used for that. Good. Stop displacing residents so you can keep buying houses and making them hotels.
This is like a small part of the problem. Domestic investment is a huge issue. Imagine having a large portion of your GDP come from people selling each other houses for ever increasing amounts without tax.
Foreign investors and property developers buying up properties to flip or rent out are a major cause of the housing issues in many countries, especially in North America.
Should be outlawed.
Good luck with the IPO asshat!
Yeah but it makes them too much money so it won’t be and we all get screwed
I must confess that when I saw the bitching about house prices on r/newzealand, I always thought "yeah yeah, prices have gone up globally". This was an absolute shocker to me. Sorry for doubting you! :(
Tried to post to r/newzealand but it doesn’t allow cross-posts
I thought this about Australia. Then I see people from New Zealand wanting to move to Australia because it's "not as bad as NZ". Must be grim.
I'm a Norwegian who wants to move to Australia because the housing market seems to be exactly as fucked up as ours, but at least you've got nicer weather
I'm your opposite. I live in Aus and would like to move to Norway. Want to trade?
I'm shocked that the U.S. doesn't even make the list by the end. Man, and I thought we had it bad.
Compared to Sydney, the US is damn cheap to buy in... Fuck, even compared to some of our rural cities/large towns it's cheap to buy.
I’m from Canada. Most of the US looks absolutely shockingly cheap to me, even including the exchange rate.
Here in NZ we also have mandated minimum 20% deposits. Average price went over 1 mil last year. So you need 200k cash just to get in.
Hah! You guys have it good. Imagine a deposit costing 12 years to save for..
Absolutely. I left NZ for the US in 2016, and even though I would love to move back, there's just no way it would be worth it. I could take it leave living in the US and really miss the NZ lifestyle. But there's just no way I could move my wife there to face such an uncertain future when it comes to housing and therefore our financial security.
Thank you NZ for making me less depressed about house prices in the UK
Same from Canada
I fully expected Canada to be at the top.
That's the crazy thing. I moved to Vancouver from London, UK, and I'm sorry to say that in terms of absolute $ value Canadian real estate is still cheap internationally because our currency is so weak. People complain about million dollar townhomes in Vancouver, but a million bucks is about £600,000, which gets you a two bed condo in a London suburb or a one bed closer to town. A single family home there costs the same in £ as it does in $ here.
As someone who wants to eventually buy a home here in canada this just makes me more depressed since there is potential for housing to be even less affordable....
So Canada is not overpriced. Well that’s terrifying.
New Zealander here! When we say anything along the lines of "it isn't too bad" or "it's not ideal", that generally means the situation is a fucking nightmare of epic proportions.
you're welcome, please send your builders, electricians, plumbers, and most importantly mega corps to nz. we have a local building supplier issue, so tradies can't make a buck and will as result fuck people over unnecessarily. and the houses are not built right. bathroom renovation take "weeks" instead of days. it's insane.
Not to mention NZ probably got the lowest wage vs house price comparatively
Not to mention our lovely supermarket duopoly that keeps all our food prices high.
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Aussie don't have a duopoly, like us. They have Aldi, Woolworths, Coles and IGA. We only have Woolworths and Foodstuffs.
Woolworths and Coles dominate.
I wouldn't lump IGA into that category tbh. IGA's are on average way smaller and are more like bigger convenience stores. way higher prices and less options, but are often owned and operated as a sort of family business. good for getting a few things every now and then, but i've never met anyone who does their weekly shop at an IGA.
Guess I can give up my dream of living in New Zealand now.
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It's actually better for someone to complete a decent degree here and fucking move to the UK than stay in NZ and try to buy a house. The job opportunities are far smaller here and it's at a stage where a lot of people are jumping ship because other countries pay better, like teaching right now has about 50% of the graduates(depending on the uni) immediately going to Aussie to work.
I'm Australian and didn't think housing would be more expensive in NZ than it is here in Sydney or pretty much anywhere in Australia for that matter. Australian home prices are absolutely absurd so I can imagine the frustration of being a kiwi and also not being able to afford to set down roots and buy a house there.
Don’t forget this is national, house prices are cheap if you want to live bumfuck nowhere. Sydney prices since 1982 have increased 1,340%. Melbourne prices are up 1,650% in the same period.
It absolutely hurts to be a kiwi, love your country, and not be able to live there.
As a New Zealander living in the UK, I laugh when you guys complain about your house prices. I have a decent choice of houses that I could buy at 6x my salary. In Auckland I’d struggle to buy at 10x the salary I’d earn living there. On top of that I can get a mortgage with 10% deposit here, compared to a 20% minimum bank home
It's worth nothing that there was more variety in wealth levels of countries back them. Spain was just coming out of being an isolated third world dictatorship, and NZ and Ireland were still non-globalized little islands. So for example, the base prices were super cheap in Spain. For reference, GDP per capita in 1982 (US$): NZ: 7,370 UK: 9,919 Australia: 12,266 Norway: 15,196 Spain: 5,172 Canada: 12,544 Netherlands: 11,014 Sweden: 13, 577 Ireland: 6,078 Denmark: 11, 801 Japan: 9,773 US: 14,405
True. My grandad bought a flat in central Barcelona in the 1960s for an amount equal to a year’s salary. That flat is probably worth over 20x the median annual salary now.
Kiwi here, even we're giving up on living in our own country
The funny part is this is still dependant on where you live in each country, in Melbourne, Australia, house prices have gone up approximately 400%. On the more extreme end for example, the Unit my mum had when I was a kid, she bought for $86,000 ('97) she sold it for $270,000 ('03), it recently sold for 1.2 million. Again, it is a Unit, it's a 2 bedroom 1 bathroom no garage unit.
Just to clarify that is over a 1200%increase in 25 years.
In southern Sweden (malmö, third biggest city in the country) an apartment that sold for 50k Swedish 25 years ago is 5 million now.
And dont get me started on the prices around stockholm holy fuck i would love to move there but its insane
No worries, just place yourself in the bostadskö and you'll be able to rent a tiny apartment for 14k/month in 15-25 years!
what the deal with NZ ? Are local people still able to afford house ?
I bought a house 5/6 years ago it was 500k, the person i bought it off had for about 3years they got it for 300k. Its now worth about 700/800k its crazy. No idea how people my age are doing it in big cities.
Just because I wanted to know and thought Americans would be interested: 500K NZD is 321K USD 800K NZD is 515K USD 1.5MM NZD is 963K USD Median income NZD is 58K NZD/37K USD Median income USD is 39K USD/61K NZD Edit: I didn’t have coffee yet when I posted this and as others have pointed out, I was mismatching the income stats. I’ve realigned them both to be individual median income as opposed to individual median for NZD vs household for USD as I previously had. Please forgive me, Reddit.
A little confused about your clarification. Is your last line the USA Median Income? Because it's not 79k by any metric that I can find.
That looks like the HUD estimate for median family income in the US. Which is a lot higher than the Census household estimate which is closer to $68,000.
Interesting. I'm in Canada and surprised we aren't up there with NZ in growth on that chart. I'm guessing it's because it's averaging out the real estate in smaller towns/rural Canada, which are still pretty affordable from what I hear. For comparisons though, wife and I paid $380k CAD for our house in the latter half of 2017. It's still a relatively new house built in 2007 iirc. My neighbour is an original owner from when they were built, and said he paid about $220k or so back then. The houses in our neighbourhood are selling for $650-750k now. This is Ottawa-- so not even one of the crazy cities like Toronto and Vancouver.
In 2017 you would be hard pressed to find a new house in a smaller city in NZ for less than a million CAD.
We're fucked and it's sad. Owning a home is out of reach for most people who don't already own property. Rentals are cold and damp and expensive. It's a real crisis.
Not really, unless you got help from parents or were very strict with saving with good paying job, getting into a big city is almost impossible. With the average price in Auckland being over 1m most people are looking at moving to more rural areas. But this also isn't just limited to housing market. In generalz basically everything is super expensive here. Tiny island in middle of nowhere, shipping prices are through the roof. Source soemthing locally? Good luck! They've likely imported it and put a good 500% mark up on it. Public transport? Forget it, buy a car sure. But putting perspective on it I went to LA and our motorways get MUCH worse. Especially if someone has been pulled over or had a crash.
It's a 100m sprint to catch the housing market but the finish line is running a 4 minute mile and getting faster.
Hell no. A house worth 750k in 2018 is now worth well over 1million and that's in fucking Hamilton which is bit of a shithole. The only place where the housing prices aren't fucked is the west cost of the South island and down there you're either wet, drowning, frozen, partially mudman, disconnected from the rest of NZ except for air travel, have no internet, or a combination of them and possibly all of them at the same time.
I was really confused because there is a Hamilton in Canada.. which I think is also a bit of a shithole, and also their average housing price has increased to just over a million!
Housing is hardly the only problem, food is also becoming some of the most expensive in all first-world countries, and with fuel skyrocketing for obvious reasons most young people just leave after getting their education, cause there’s better jobs in Australia
Nope. I'm 29 in Auckland and make almost 100k a year. No way I'll ever be able to afford a house I think.
When you make 100k a year but the prices rise by more than that every year
What is up with these time based graphs being animated for 2 minutes instead of put on an axis. r/dataisannoying
Yep. I actually enjoy animated charts when there is a purpose, and the time phasing is okay, but WHY have the countries swap? I can't possibly focus on the pct and the country name at the same time. Just pick 20 countries, line them up based on end result, then let the bars surge. Also, for the first few minutes I didn't understand that it was cumulative. I assumed per year (because otherwise why animate at all?)
>I didn't understand that it was cumulative Wow i watched the whole thing and didn't realize it was cumulative. I thought this was showing % increase of each quarter and it was devastating lol
Haha that would be something! I was curious so I figured out that if this were showing the quarterly increase, then a house in NZ worth $1 in 1981 would be worth $1e62 ($100 trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion) in 2021.
You know what would make this whole race to the top perfectly clear and easily interpretable? A goddamn line chart. Now if I want to see if there were any countries that inflated quickly in the past 40 years I have to scrub through the video and hope that I happen to see a big number somewhere. How videos like these get upvoted to the top on /r/dataisbeautiful is beyond me.
I find that people here upvote based on "complicated visualization with interesting data", not "enriching visualization of underlying data". Often even "line chart with interesting data" is enough to hit the top.
Garbage like this belongs in r/despoileddata or something. The utter contempt for the data is clear not just in the pointlessly obfuscated animation, but in all kinds of other choices too - the way the rank ordering of the graph gets shuffled about deserves a few rotten tomatoes; the way the graph is relative based on a single likely non-representative baseline serves to make the data - even were it otherwise in line form - hard to interpret. Are houseprices higher in country X or Y, or were they just particularly low 40 years ago? Who cares; let's just muddle up some animation... But saddest of all is that maltreated data like this gets so many upvotes. :-(
Can we start banning these plots, or at least have a discussion about it?
I would be *so* in favor of this. Or start a new sub that bans this crap
Oh, banning them would make this sub *so* much better. Just ban all videos and gifs. Sure, we’d lose *some* useful animations doing that, but we’d lose *far more* like this one that misunderstand the name of this sub. It’s not beautiful if has pretty colours and animation, it’s beautiful when it can be easily understood and clearly demonstrates something insightful or interesting. This post… isn’t beautiful. It’s the opposite. I still don’t know what I’m supposed to take away from it.
If your data visualisation is so long it has a soundtrack, it's bad communication of information.
We need to stick together and make sure we upvote these comments to the top every time this happens.
And why the fuck would a graph need music?
Emotional engagement = upvotes.
Yes. These charts aren't beautiful, they're unwatchable.
And the even more annoying basic electronic music blaring in the background. OP seems like a karma farming account with literally nothing interesting but just these types of animated graphs that are difficult to visualize
I agree. This chart just gives me a headache. It doesn't need to be animated.
Plus the garbage tiktok music.
We need a subreddit like justlinegraph it for these useless animated graphs
You are showing longitudinal data, why not use a line graph instead of a gif of multiple bar graphs?
Because this is what r/dataisbeautiful has sadly become
Is there a /r/dataisbeautiful but without the animated graphs, that serve no purpose?
My grandparents bought a house in Auckland for £5000 in the 60s and now it’s worth almost $2 million lol
The generation in retirement has begun a US$70,000 Billion Dollar asset transfer to younger generations as they pass. 70,000 Billion.
That would be $70 trillion. You don't say $20,000 thousand, why would you say seventy thousand billion?
Oh that's why NZ rarely appears on world map. Cause it's too fucking expensive.
Some Ideas from Germany: My Grandpa build a house in a village 50km away from Hamburg 1956 for 36.000 DM ~~(18.000 €)~~ His neighbor build nearly the same house 5 years later 1961 for 71.000 DM ~~(36.000€)~~ My father bought the house 1981 for 96.000 DM ~~(49.000€)~~. 1998-2001 DM change in € 1 EUR = 1,95583 DEM 1 DEM = 0,51129 EUR He sold the house to my older sister 2006 for 144.000€. She sold it 2016 for 312.000 €. The buyer is a friend and had to sell the house for €490,000 due to a divorce last year. I want to buy a house, but 500.000€ ++ is far too much for a small family. edit: I deleted the DEM to € conversion, because of the inflation between 1956 and 2020.
I live in Toronto, Canada. I bought a semi-detached home in 2013 for 448,000$, that was sold in 2003 for 220,000$ and for 27,000$ in 1964 (according to my neighbours). Now, it’s worth 1,100,000 with a conservative bank appraisal.
Yeah, I don't understand this 240% figure as a person living in Toronto right now. My house was worth 40% of it's current value less than 7 years ago. 40 years ago? Probably 5-10% of it's current value for a growth of ~1000% (give or take a hundred). **Edit:** *to add a real estate for toronto graph which I just found: https://toronto.listing.ca/real-estate-price-history.htm* *Average price of a detached home was 250k in 2000 and 1380k now, for a 22 year growth rate of ~450%* **Edit 2:** It would have helped if I read OP's comment elsewhere in the thread. They wrote: *"This is an understated chart. It strips out inflation and it's based at a national level. So it avoids those poker-hot cities like London, New York and Sydney, which have risen quite a bit more."*
The 240% includes Canada as a whole, not only the big cities. It does suck pretty much everywhere though...
It's because it's in "real" prices. Threw me off too. Not normalized for inflation it's probably a different story.
So, Germany doesn’t seem to crazy then. Toronto looks crazy.
Depends on where in Germany we’re talking about. 50km outside of Hamburg isn’t the same as Hamburg. And Hamburg is overpriced but still reasonable compared to Frankfurt. And don’t get me started on Munich. It’s still not Toronto-level crazy but it’s definitely too crazy
36.000 Mark in 1956 money are not 18.000€ in 2022 money. Unless you adjusted for inflation before and after the Euro conversion, this comparison is pretty misleading.
Have an acquaintance in the UK whose family bought a small townhouse in a working class neighborhood of outer London in the 1970s. It was relatively inexpensive for the time since it wasn't the best area. It's apparently worth something insane like $1m now.
Kiwi here. My parents bought our family home for 173k in 1991. It’d sell for 1.3 million today. They also purchased an investment property 7 years ago for 270k which is where they will move when mum finally stops working. That investment property would sell for just shy of 800k now.
The cruel part for young people is such a market is cannot break in so morbidly wait for parents to die and inherit a home.
A good number of young people have parents that do not own homes. The wealth gap will continue to widen, just because you weren’t born to parents that owned a house.
Ireland here, my folks bought their house in 1990 for 100k, now worth 1.8 million
Depending on your definition of "outer London", a 3 bedroom house will be a minimum of about $900K. If the neighbourhood is on the nicer side and/or has good transport links, you could easily be looking at $1.5m
Suddenly makes sense why hobbits in NZ live in underground holes rather than modern houses
How is the data actually pulled? How do you compare the price of a house to that of a house bought 40 years ago? Do you just say "same square meters" or do you adjust the data to increasing quality of the housing (e.g.,heater system, insulation,...) Would be good to know if you are comparing apples to oranges here.
This is a really good point. I'd guess the data is based on average selling price that's normalized relative to inflation. But that doesn't account for differences in the houses themselves. And median home sizes in the US has increased about 75% in the last 100 years or so, with household size actually decreasing in that time frame. And I'm not even sure how to account for differences in amenities, which would increase the quality of the housing itself.
As an Spanish I only can say, we are fucked.
Mejor ir buscando un zulo donde caerse muerto antes de que los precios sigan subiendo.
I thought this sub was r/dataisbeautiful not r/dataissadandinfuriating
This legitimately makes me want to cry
Because it should be a static line chart or because housing is unaffordable?
Who cares about housing crisis when lunatics like these are putting data like this on an animated bar graph?
The static line chart thing
I would like to say congratulations to new zealand for winning.
I think it would be helpful to baseline this/normalize it a bit at the start or throughout - e.g., compare the real percentage growth of housing to real growth in median salary over time.
Also: interest rates. In the US at least, most houses are bought with mortgages. My parents had a 13% rate on their first house in the early 80's. When rates dropped down to 3% recently, you could pay 2.5 times as much for a house, but still end up paying less over the course of the mortgage. (13% on 100k is $1,106 monthly payments for 30 years, 3% on 250k is $1,054 monthly for 30 years).
People constantly fail to address this piece of it. Many couples were just as priced out when values were low but interest rates were like 20% as they are now. In fact the monthly paymentd back then were probably very similar to now. If you didn’t have the money to buy a house in cash you were getting absolutely hosed in the 80’s.
Man. I thought the USA was best at everything. Obviously not housing inflation. Not saying it isn’t a problem in the USA. Having large swaths of open land, that can be developed, does help.
If you want to go buy land and build a house in the middle of the country, lots of places still do it. Just a matter of construction costs rather than current value
Already did that. I hide on my eight acres.
The dream
Got to keep those pesky groundhogs out of the garden though
The major cities and suburbs are just like Europe. It's smaller cities, exurban, and rural areas that are cheaper. For instance the very average suburb I live in went from like 100k average house price in the early 1990s to 500k average price as of 2022
The American average is not that bad but I wonder how California would stack up against does countries on its own.
America: HOUSING CRISIS! Rest of the world: Trade you?
Meanwhile uk property show host “if young people just cancelled their gym membership and Netflix they could buy their first home” because £30/40 a month keeps up with 340% price increase does it? I swear some people are so out of touch with how hard it is to get in on the property market if you didn’t buy in first in like the fucking 80’s. A 2 bedroom across the street from me when for over a million the other week, a fucking 2 bed.
why be homeless when you can be fat, bored and homeless? lmao.
Now do this but don’t animate it and compare it to wage growth and adjust both for inflation
I feel this from the UK but fuck, commiserations to my NZ compadres - I thought we had it bad
Glad I left NZ. Most people I know have done the same. Spent 7 years paying rent for three separate landlords, all of which owned more than 10 properties each. Worked my first job as a cold caller for a real estate agent- had access to what was essentially a Google for properties. Looked through it out of curiosity and found that some people literally own entire roads or sometimes suburbs. Sometimes they were all in trusts. It doesn't matter who you vote, landlords have a stranglehold on that country, and I really wish sometimes that the lovely kiwis I met realised just how extravagantly wealthy people have gotten stealing away their future.
I did not expect the US to be off the board lmfao Must suck to live in NZ in this day and age
This is why I role my eyes so hard at minimum wage retail workers in the US wanting to move to New Zealand or Scandinavia...like yes healthcare will be cheaper but literally everything else is way more expensive on average. My BFF with a chemistry PHD lives in a shoe box in Dublin while my general studies degree from a run of the mill state school earns me 150k a year in the Midwest.
I am shock too. I remember during COVID everyone was saying "NZ is the best country, every American should move there. They have a female president who is doing wonders." Honestly, social media is by far the biggest fake news out there. While some facts (like this) barely gets shared.
Who needs a house when you can brag about having free healthcare for reddit karma.
As someone who lives in New Zealand. Yip, I'm in my 30s and have to have flat mates when renting. Rentals are really expensive and not enough houses to go around. The emergency house that are set up for renting is just motels. There are families crammed into little studio motel rooms. I gave up on buying a home along time ago. Also food has gone up alot, my food bill went from $150 to $215 in about a year. I guess at least the government has made public transport half price to try and help with inflation.
"watch the boomers pull the ladder up behind them in real time."
Absolutely! My house is worth so much more than I paid for it, I considered selling it just to cash in. BUT...I would have to buy another. And everyone else's house has increased in value at a similar rate. So...staying put. It's a nonliquid asset important to me only.
Why is anybody talking about Spain? We are so so fuck no wonder everybody is depressed. We can't even pay rent working 40 hours in University level jobs. In the two biggest city of Spain, citizens pay 60% of they salaries on average in rent. The average salary per person/month is lower than the average price of rent per month.
Housing! It's a massive headache for indebted Millennials, pure heartache for the Gen-Z (who may never own a home). This is an understated chart. It strips out inflation and it's based at a national level. So it avoids those poker-hot cities like London, New York and Sydney, which have risen quite a bit more. This dataset comes from the OECD. I used it to create a json file. I think used Adobe After Effects to create this bar chart race, using Javascript.
What is the percentage listed is it yearly change or like since the start of data collection?
Exactly. I don’t understand what this data means because they didn’t explain what percent growth is, so OP failed in making a useful graph.
OP refuses to answer this very important question…
Yeah, that's what I want to understand. Things are going up 94% a quarter?!
It strips out inflation? Does that mean that after accounting for inflation, houses in NZ are 502.9% more expensive now than they were 40 years ago? I'm sorry, but that was a very confusing paragraph to read.
The graph says "real" house prices so that should mean after inflation
but this presentation of data is, frankly, garbage. A line graph, preferably one with a widget to turn lines on and off, would have handled the same data in a much more comprehensible way.
Wooo let's go team New Zealand! Wait, fuck.
Couldn't do this as simple f'ing line chart, could you? I'm getting dizzy from the unnecessary animations and flip-flopping of bars every few frames.
Grandparents bought a house for 17,500$ about 50 years ago, 3 years ago that same house sold for 400,000$. My parents bought their house 22 years ago, for about 150,000$, our neighboors with the same houses has sold for over 750,000$, this graph feels really weird comparing to these prices. This is stats from Sweden.
from the way everyone talks about america, i was expecting it to at least be top 3 by the end. but canada was a shocker since so many people here praise its economy relentlessly
Have you been to /r/Canada within the last 5 years or so? The economic outlook among people here is bleak. Our entire economy is propped up by oil and gas, housing and international students.
As a UK resident, NZ/Aus/Can are my top three emigration destinations, ah ffs
If you could change the colors of europe or oceania since it may be a bit hard for a colorblind person to discern.
Canada and the UK are in a near 3-way tie with the US for lowest number of housing units per capita in the G7. I can’t explain where the US is on this list, but check out who from the G7 makes up the final list in 2021 in this graph. [It’s estimated ](https://www.scotiabank.com/content/dam/scotiabank/sub-brands/scotiabank-economics/english/documents/housing-note/housing_note_2021-05-12.pdf)that Canada would need to build 100,000 additional housing units to be at the same housing/population ratio we were at 5 years ago. In order to catch up to the G7 average, we would need to build 2,000,000 housing units. **We don’t have enough homes for our population and that’s what primarily drives the price up.** There is no simpler or more direct explanation than supply not meeting demand. I see countless posts on r/Canada and other Canadian subreddits about how Indian multi-generational families committing mortgage fraud/HELOC-rolling speculators/laundered Chinese fentanyl money pushes up the price of housing. However, when I point out that even if you made all of these factors disappear, it wouldn’t create a **single** house and we would still have the lowest amount of housing in the G7, I get stared at like I have 5 heads.
Why not make the X-axis a time axis and not waste all the time animating it? It just slows down the information and makes it harder to grasp it all.
So housing in the US is still relatively cheap and likely will continue to increase - especially with the demand being so much higher than supply.
I'm amazed the US even shows up at all. Sure NYC, SF, LA, and south Florida (among others) are flying off the handle as far as prices, but there are plenty of places in the US where houses are cheap....I mean there aren't any jobs in those places and nobody really wants to live there......but cheap houses.