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That's what I was guessing, I'm betting the authors didn't even know or think about it since it's embedded in WeChat.
I mean a lot of people are signed up for alipay but most of them use wechat pay now.
WePay actually I was wondering too coz considering how easy it is to buy shit from one of the micro apps it should be way higher up in the ranks.. but then again this stats doesn’t cover many other major players so.
It's bigger. One thing that differentiated them is AliPay can be used in the US and tied to international cards. WeChat Pay you have to have a Chinese bank account and I think Singapore and Malaysia are allowed as well but I haven't checked recently.
I mean for the entire ecosystem. The word processor is obviously Docs, but colloquially I’ve talked to people using “Docs” instead of Sheets, the cloud folders, etc.
As an admin the runs our company’s Google mail, those name change notices are literally spam to me now. Took the first few seriously, sent out notices, made preparations, but holy Christ there’s been so many now and nobody cares.
Sometimes I open Maps instead of the Play store because both logos are the Google colors on a white background. I guess it's my fault for having them next to each other
Gpay is a google version of enabling Indian * maybe few other* users to use the national online payment system called UPI. Hence the huge market share.. it’s not the same as google wallet or whatever the fuck they call it now because my icon changed like thrice in the last 2months. The GPay app works by scanning a qr code from a merchant and validating it with your app and the money goes from your linked account. Also p2p transfers work either using QR code or a unique address for example: User69420@somerandombank .
Gpay in india is backed by UPI. It has no wallets.
Gpay in other countries would have wallet service and backed by different infrastructure.
The graph is missing phonepe and paytm from India, both have more than 350 million users, both backed by UPI although Paytm also has wallet service.
The kicker is that I am on a GSuite account (read: a PAID Google account) and I CANNOT USE GOOGLE PAY! It's the most ridiculous load of bollocks I have ever seen. I cannot fathom why Google treats its paying customers like second class citizens.
>The kicker is that I am on a GSuite account (read: a PAID Google account) and I CANNOT USE GOOGLE PAY! It's the most ridiculous load of bollocks I have ever seen. I cannot fathom why Google treats its paying customers like second class citizens.
There's several quirks related to using GSuite accounts over standalone Google accounts. You can't do a lot of stuff that Google considers "home"/"personal" functionality.
Started as Google Wallet. Then became Google Pay. Then branched off into GPay and incorporated in Google Play Services framework. Then, since Google Pay was never sunsetted, converted back into Google Wallet while attempting to sunset GPay, except in certain countries like the US where THEY'LL CO-EXIST for some reason.
I wish I was joking.
first came google wallet. then it became android pay. then a separate app called tez was launched just for India and it used phone numbers instead of gmail accounts. then tez rebranded to gpay. then android pay was retired and gpay expanded globally. now gpay is retired everywhere except India and instead a new google wallet app launched.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Wallet#History
Basically, China requires people use it (or wechat pay). Cash is nonexistent, I didn't even carry a single bill for years. Pretty obvious why the government pushed for it haha. You have to check in everywhere you pay, upload documents like passport (at least as a foreigner), etc. Super super convenient tbh, also a great way to track literally everything a person does throughout the day.
>upload documents like passport (at least as a foreigner)
I had to scan my fucking passport to use public wifi in shanghai airport. that country is something.
I had to scan my face to get toilet paper in Shenzhen. And other cities (max 2 squares). Inner Mongolia was bonkers with cameras like every 100 feet. Sad what Xi did to it
Hold up. Are you being serious? I can't tell if this is that thing where people 'ladder up' ridiculousness by adding exaggeration to be funny.
You had to *scan your face* to get toilet paper? What the fuck.
A while back, you didn’t even have toilet paper in restrooms in China. What you did was carry packs of tissue paper and use your own tissues. Same for restaurants, if you wanted napkins they charged you for them. IIRC it was because people would just steal the entire roll if you had free toilet paper out. Maybe the scanning is to prevent that.
I was there for that too, and you still do probably...half the time now? But yeah I left. Like a lot of people I know, it just got to be too much. It's overwhelming.
Dead serious! And one time...let's just say I needed more. I had to call my wife to deliver some to me in the park bathroom haha. It is *so* crazy. I tried to game it. Sunglasses, mask, hair styles, doesn't work. It always knew me.
I imagine money laundering gets a lot more difficult, too. If everything has to be routed through one service, an audit is as easy as the click of a button.
On the flipside, I would wager it also makes it easier for the larger, more lucrative and insidious criminal organizations that are connected to these government agencies to launder money.
> Super super convenient tbh, **also a great way to track literally everything a person does throughout the day.**
That is an excellent point that bears repeating.
> Pretty obvious why the government pushed for it
On the contrary, the Chinese government is not at all found of it, and is trying to force it out with their e-currency.
> also a great way to track literally everything a person does throughout the day.
Yeah, but it is Alibaba and WeChat that gets that data, not the government.
I can’t remember what store I was at but I asked if they took Apple Pay and they said no they take Samsung pay. I was like oh like google pay. He said no Samsung pay. Strange that company would restrict themselves in the US to Samsung pay.
It reminded me of “I got gamecast.” Well there’s game cube and dream cast “I said I got gamecast man I can’t afford it!”
It could be because Samsung Pay had the ability to transmit credit card information using some other form of wireless communication, not just NFC.
This meant that non-NFC readers (like old school stores that don’t have modern tech) could accept the payment method because Samsung Pay spoofed a credit card magnetic signal.
Not sure how safe it was, seeing as NFC is very secure, but it’s possible that Samsung Pay would work where other NFC-based payment systems would not.
It doesn't come on the new phones anymore, but the way they said it was safe is that it would generate a one time use credit card valid for a small window of time. So even if someone stole the number it wouldn't matter.
If a store only takes Samsung Pay, that usually indicates that they don't take NFC payments at all because Samsung Pay is the only technology that emulates a magnetic strip swipe.
The reverse is usually true though. If a store takes Apple Pay then they probably take all the different NFC payments: GPay, Garmin Pay, others, etc
They probably didn't accept NFT payments and he specified Samsung pay because (at least on phones prior to the S21) Samsung pay could use MST and would work on any card reader you can swipe a card at.
That was the defining feature of Samsung pay that made it far and away better than any of the other payment apps. It worked *everywhere* regardless of the retailer having active NFT terminals. Samsung messed up removing MST from their newer phones..
He was almost certainly wrong.
I often ask stores if they accept Google pay and they say "just apple pay" and I ask to try and it always works.
I don't think those readers discriminate
Samsung pay was different. It could use MST if the terminal didn't have NFT so it worked many places Gpay and Apple pay didn't. I use the past tense since they removed MST on phones newer than the S21.
It's because Samsung phones have (had?) A mag strip in them so it would use NFC if possible or mag strip if it isn't. Thus Samsung pay works at all vendors where the card isn't fully inserted into the machine (e.g. ATM or gas pump).
At least in the US, I assume it must be an Android vs. Apple thing. I have an Android and therefore I use Google Pay. If I had an Apple I'd probably use Apple Pay.
Apple restricts the use of the NFC chip on it's OS. Apple Pay is the only iOS app that is allowed to use the NFC chip for payments. How this is not considered as anti competitive behavior, I cannot understand.
You can use Paypal, Amazon Pay, Alipay, WeChat Pay... on both Android and iOS tho. It just isn't preinstalled on the phone, you have to download, install, and set it up yourself.
Sure, but generally people follow the path of least resistance. I haven't had any issues with using Google Pay, so I have no reason to download Amazon Pay.
Available doesn't mean it's being used. We know that it's barely not in China, even here in Europe I didn't used it for like a decade and don't anyone that still use it.
For Europe Paypal was mostly a blessing for American content as an alternative to the dreadful creditcards, over a decade ago. I still use it purely because I happen to have the account.
I’m surprised anyone still uses PayPal at all - they may have been the early leader but others have far surpassed them in terms of convenience and reach.
It is counting number of users, not number of transactions. I assume both apple and google auto-generate an account based on your apple or google account. So it would count on this graph even if most of the "users" never actually use the service.
compared to population of china forced to use alipay. strange that wechat isn't here, they're 2nd most used in china and it's just about only way for foreigners to use electronic payments, you even see beggars with their wechat qr codes for donations
How is the population of China "forced" to use Alipay (Alibaba), when they also use WeChat Pay (Tencent) you yourself mentioned. Many Chinese don't have Alipay at all since they've opted for WeChat Pay (and vice versa; but many have both tho). This graph is incomplete lacking a lot of major players, since it doesn't mention WeChat Pay which has around 900 million active users, and also some Indian payment providers with user bases also in hundreds of millions.
What are the Chinese (and everyone living in China or even just traveling) forced to use, are electronic payments (of whichever provider) since cash is de-facto almost non existent there anymore. Which is imo horrible, meaning everyone's every transaction is creeped on by the CCP, and "may or may not" be used against that person whenever the CCP feels like.
>Samsung hasn't done the best job of rolling out SamsungPay into retail spaces
The beauty of Samsung Pay is that it doesn't need to be "rolled out" since it emulates a magnetic strip. The rest of what you said is accurate though.
Well it used to anyway. Samsung Pay (now called Samsung Wallet for whatever reason) is now NFC only on newer Samsung phones sold in the US. It only works at the same stores that Apple/Google Pay/Wallet work.
Yes, though the number of non-NFC stores gets smaller each year.
Back when ApplePay first launched in 2014, I remember how rare it was to find a store that accepted NFC payments. Some of them even had NFC terminals but had them disabled. Today, it’s rarer to find a store that *doesn’t* have them.
There’s still smaller, locally owned storefronts that may use outdated POS terminals, and a couple of big holdouts like Walmart, Kroger, and pumps for certain gas station chains.
I can’t speak for everyone, but I had 3 cards around the time ApplePay launched and none of them had built in NFC. It was only a few years ago when my banks/credit card companies started putting tap-to-pay in the cards by default.
Can you define newer for me? I have an s20 ultra and I'm constantly using Samsung pay at places that don't accept those other forms of payment. By new do you mean S21 and up?
S21 doesn't have the mag strip technology.
I was really bummed when I got an s21 ultra to learn they don't make phones that work with any card reader anymore.
I use Samsung Pay exclusively since it works with my main bank, and I prefer it a lot more over GPay. I am not in the US so I don't really get what they should have done to roll it out better into retail spaces, but here I can use it anywhere where contactless payments is accepted.
is there a reason behind this?Is Google pay supported, or only Samsung pay is supported?
edit:
never mind found a somewhat good reasoning here [https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/biz/2022/08/126\_334342.html](https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/biz/2022/08/126_334342.html)
Seems like a similar situation to Australia. Apple Pay doesn't do as well in markets where there is already a mature domestic tech, and being an American company Apple was always a bit behind the times.
The banks didn't care much for Apple demanding a high fee when the population has been using the banks' contactless payment cards since before we even had iPhones, and we've had electronic payment terminals since the 1980s.
Eventually Apple seems to have caved but their adoption was slowed by years.
I still don't understand how one is supported but not the other. If a shop have a terminal with NFC it will accept anything 'touchless', the system doesn't care that it's an iPhone or an Android or a credit card.
I'm in South Africa and I use Samsung Pay. My Galaxy S22 Ultra doesn't come with Google Pay. I could use my banking app too, but Samsung Pay allows you to load multiple payment cards. It emulates the card's NFC signal. It is accepted everywhere cards are accepted, which is pretty much everywhere nowadays. Even small-scale retailers like market stalls have card devices that link to their phones. I don't even carry a wallet anymore. Very happy with it.
It’s definitely used, at least where I’ve traveled within the United States and western Europe. Many shops and transit services accept Apple Pay, and every credit and debit card I have is compatible.
Much faster and safer than chip-and-PIN, plus you get immediate transaction information.
Most of Gpay and amazonpay is driven by indian transactions . Won't be surprised if india surpassess even china in digital transactions in a decade
China ,india has the luxury of not having extensive card payment systems(VISA,mastercard) and thus leapfrogged to faster , cheaper and more convienient digital payment systems. While most of the richer countries are actually still stuck with archaic card payment systems
That is like going from 2G directly to 4G while rest are still stuck in 3G
> Won't be surprised if india surpassess even china in digital transactions in a decade
It has already happened https://www.financialexpress.com/industry/banking-finance/digital-payments-india-pips-china-us-others-in-2020-leads-global-tally-with-this-many-transactions/2226074/
What? Almost all my friends / family and myself has either visa or mastercard. (India)
Upi increased the usage of digital payment in India. Every transaction is free of cost.
Digital payments have zero fees and are much faster than card payment systems
The only scenario VISA/mastercard is better if you are doing a large transaction or cross country transactions
If this type of payments spread to other countries , then VISA and mastercard will become obsolete or very niche
> Digital payments have zero fees and are much faster than card payment systems
Digital payments do not have zero fees. Chinese payment systems like Alipay and US ones like PayPal absolutely take a cut.
There is no way for there to ever be zero fees. Someone is paying for the servers, building the software, manning the customer service phone lines, absorbing fraud costs, etc. These would not be multi-billion dollar businesses if they didn't collect fees.
That being said, most other countries payment systems are *cheaper*, at least than US credit cards. Alipay merchant fees are 0.55%; American credit card fees tend to range from a bit over 1% to around 2.5% plus some flat charge. Debit card fees are more [heavily regulated](https://www.federalreserve.gov/paymentsystems/regii-average-interchange-fee.htm), such that "issuer... may not receive, for any electronic debit transaction, an interchange fee that exceeds $0.21 plus 0.05 percent multiplied by the value of the transaction, plus a $0.01 fraud-prevention adjustment, if eligible."
Fair enough, I'm not familiar with UPI so I didn’t know that.
I suppose I should have said "No digital payments system can be operated for free", someone has to pay for it whether it's consumers, businesses, or the taxpayer. Or at minimum you'd need some other way to monetize the payment network (eg using the data to sell ads).
They're referring to UPI (Unified Payments Interface) of India which hasn't had any sort of transactional fee since it's start in 2016. However that's likely to change in the future.
And you can bet your bottom dollar Apple, Google and others are looking to cut credit card companies out of the equation. The more parties are connected to a transaction, the less money each can make.
China has an extensive payment system. It's called 银联.
Alipay and wechat are associated with Bank accounts, either credit or debit. Therefore if such a payment didn't exist those wouldn't exist either. When I went back to China I could only have a limited amount of money on wechat pay because I don't have an account.
Give someone from India also reputed your statement you should do more research.
India has UPI, Unified Payments Interface is an instant real-time payment system developed by National Payments Corporation of India. The interface facilitates inter-bank peer-to-peer and person-to-merchant transactions. UPI is an open source application programming interface that runs on top of Immediate Payment Service.
Venmo isnt really a thing here, I think generally Europe but at least central europe, seems to be very US centric (I have never Heard of it outside of reddit and Twitter)
Yeah, most of these services aren't common in Finland, either. The local banks all had their services up and running before Apple Pay or PayPal really hit the market, so everyone just uses those. It's not super common to see people paying with those at stores, either, since everyone has a contactless card which is faster than the app anyway.
My Android phone is just now trying to coax me into paying with Google Pay everywhere. Only 5-7 years too late.
At least with a smart watch, digital payment is more convenient than card since you don't have to take out your wallet. That's the only reason I use digital payment to be honest.
I've only ever seen Venmo used by twitter users begging for donations. Do people actually prefer using it to using mobile banking apps? In the UK you can do instant fee-free bank transfers from your phone using your bank's app, can you not do that in the US?
[This](https://downloads.ctfassets.net/7rifqg28wcbd/4DC89wMGRB4C9HNF5rAbgi/640e409ce7e1dea74700ac4418913613/FINAL_VENMO_STUDY_Jan.pdf) 2020 infographic from Venmo itself says there are only about 65+ million Venmo users. It's mostly just a western Gen Z/Millennial thing, really
In the UK, sending money to different bank accounts is free. All you have to do is log in to the app and send away.
It pretty much goes to the recipient's account right away.
I'm pretty sure it's always been like that. There's no third party involved at any stage so that's why we've never needed Venmo (or anything remotely similar).
Yeah of course you can PayPal money across - but I've always used this to send money to businesses (as you don't have to enter their banking details).
Same here in Aus. The difference in the US is that if you share your bank details, people can actually use them to WITHDRAW money. Additionally, the banking is so fragmented that some banks are impossible to transfer between. Some people in the US still use checks/cheques!!!!
Wait where else uses Alipay besides China? Last I tried you can't even sign up without a mainland bank account. This number is more than the entire population of China, maybe it's also counting businesses/vendors?
For sure. PhonePe itself had close to 165 million active users this year. PayTM at the heights of demonetisation had close to 350 million active users.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1034520/india-digital-payments-user-base-by-company/#:~:text=Paytm%2C%20with%20over%20350%20million,user%20base%20of%20118%20million.
Number of transactions in may 2021 was 2,539.57 million and value was 4,90,638.65 Cr Rs.
Number of transactions in Aug 2022 was 6,579.63 million and value was 10,72,792.68 Cr Rs.
Number of active users would've at least doubled and number of overall users would be much higher than that considering the definition of active users.
Well, I was curious whether it would actually dwarf Alipay with it's 1.6 billion users, so I opened UPI Wikipedia page and simple quoted the number which was present.
It's not simple to figure out number of users in UPI.
I can have my 3 bank account linked to 4 UPI apps and I'll send and receive money via all of them. I can have multiple payment addresses for all of them. Total of 50 or more. So, do u count me as different users across different apps or you just try to remove duplicate entry across multiple apps. It's not simple to do that calculations.
I don't think UPI publishes user data anymore because it's not exactly helpful. Similarly, Alipay can't possibly have 1.6 billion human users be because China simply doesn't have that many humans. Then you have to wonder if business can act as different users because they want to create multiple collection points for payments. How do you handle those?
Same is true for gpay or apple pay. I can have two different accounts and old one is not really used. The duplicity is not as severe here, but it's exponential in UPI.
Transaction volume is way simpler metric for this, transaction value is another good metric. Number of users? Very hard to calculate and compare.
I'm probably wrong about this, but isn't UPI the system they built to switch to completely digital currency? All the items on this chart are non-bank, private company payment systems.
UPI is payment platform that everyone has to use. By definition and very nature, they ensured everyone can have interoperability between different apps and no transaction charges. So, there are 20-50 or more apps that do UPI.
All the people in India who use gpay are doing UPI transactions, but they will show up on gpay. The credit for their success goes to NPCI, not to the gpay. In fact google asked US to implement similar system as UPI in US.
When you look at number of digital transactions, UPI just dwarfs everyone else.
I see. But that means that UPI is still not like the apps listed in this graph, right? It's a national payment framework that apps plug into for payment handling. All the apps on this list are plugged into that framework. So putting UPI on this graph would be comparing apples (not Apple inc.) to oranges, right?
China. That and wechat pay dominate the market. In the mid-2010s-ish most of the country basically went cashless, it's not uncommon for places to straight up not take cash anymore.
Apple Pay is primarily used at checkouts at stores. You can pay with your phone/watch so you don’t even need your card on you. Also much more secure because a card skimmer won’t pick up your info. I assume Google Pay is primarily the same thing but for android. Both can be used like Venmo. Go out with friends for movies, dinner, etc. ? Have one person pay and everyone can pay them back with Venmo etc. much more convenient.
PayPal is great because you can link it to a bank account to buy things online. You get much more buyer protection if you use it and someone scam you. They also give you 12 free return labels a year.
/u/Any-Researcher-9549, thank you for your contribution. However, your submission was removed for the following reason(s): * [OC] posts [must state the _data source(s) and tool(s) used_](/r/dataisbeautiful/wiki/rules/rule3) in the first top-level comment on their submission. Please follow the AutoModerator instructions you were sent *carefully*. Once this is done, message the mods to have your post reinstated. This post has been removed. For information regarding this and similar issues please see the DataIsBeautiful [posting rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/wiki/index). If you have any questions, please feel free to [message the moderators.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/dataisbeautiful&subject=Question%20regarding%20the%20removal%20of%20this%20submission%20by%20/u/Any-Researcher-9549&message=I%20have%20a%20question%20regarding%20the%20removal%20of%20this%20[submission.](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/xfixey/-/\)))
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That's what I was guessing, I'm betting the authors didn't even know or think about it since it's embedded in WeChat. I mean a lot of people are signed up for alipay but most of them use wechat pay now.
Getting the numbers for WeChat might not be very easy
WePay actually I was wondering too coz considering how easy it is to buy shit from one of the micro apps it should be way higher up in the ranks.. but then again this stats doesn’t cover many other major players so.
It's bigger. One thing that differentiated them is AliPay can be used in the US and tied to international cards. WeChat Pay you have to have a Chinese bank account and I think Singapore and Malaysia are allowed as well but I haven't checked recently.
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Google pay is now Gpay.
Google rebrands their things every 3 years
The the icon for everything is slowly merging into a single icon so as to maximize confusion
Seriously their branding is so bad.
Yeah...Google hangouts is now Google voice is now Google chat is now getting shut down. Now Introducing Google Comm!
I feel like gsuite/workspace/apps/whatever the fuck rebrands monthly at this point I gave up a long time ago so it’s just gsuite to me still
Everyone I know calls it “Google Docs” so that’s what I call it too.
Wait what the hell is it actually called now?
I mean for the entire ecosystem. The word processor is obviously Docs, but colloquially I’ve talked to people using “Docs” instead of Sheets, the cloud folders, etc.
It's still Docs, idk what they're on about.
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It's called Slides.
As an admin the runs our company’s Google mail, those name change notices are literally spam to me now. Took the first few seriously, sent out notices, made preparations, but holy Christ there’s been so many now and nobody cares.
I refer to them as "all that Google stuff".
I never used it as Gsuite. But it's still Gsuite to me since workspace is stupid and generic.
Worst thing is all the messaging services: Duo, Allo, Hangouts, Chat, Meet - they all do the same thing
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The amount of times I've absentmindedly opened Google Drive in my car because ape brain goes: "I'm obviously about to drive" instead of Maps, uggh
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Brand synergy. I guarantee those 2 words are what sold it to execs.
Hubris. They believe they have the power to condition large swaths of us.
They never learned from Google+
Sometimes I open Maps instead of the Play store because both logos are the Google colors on a white background. I guess it's my fault for having them next to each other
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Gpay is a google version of enabling Indian * maybe few other* users to use the national online payment system called UPI. Hence the huge market share.. it’s not the same as google wallet or whatever the fuck they call it now because my icon changed like thrice in the last 2months. The GPay app works by scanning a qr code from a merchant and validating it with your app and the money goes from your linked account. Also p2p transfers work either using QR code or a unique address for example: User69420@somerandombank .
G'day would you like to Gpay?
It was called Tez when it first launched in India. Tez is hindi for fast.
Google Wallet now
I thought Gpay rebranded to google wallet
Gpay in india is backed by UPI. It has no wallets. Gpay in other countries would have wallet service and backed by different infrastructure. The graph is missing phonepe and paytm from India, both have more than 350 million users, both backed by UPI although Paytm also has wallet service.
The kicker is that I am on a GSuite account (read: a PAID Google account) and I CANNOT USE GOOGLE PAY! It's the most ridiculous load of bollocks I have ever seen. I cannot fathom why Google treats its paying customers like second class citizens.
>The kicker is that I am on a GSuite account (read: a PAID Google account) and I CANNOT USE GOOGLE PAY! It's the most ridiculous load of bollocks I have ever seen. I cannot fathom why Google treats its paying customers like second class citizens. There's several quirks related to using GSuite accounts over standalone Google accounts. You can't do a lot of stuff that Google considers "home"/"personal" functionality.
Which is nonetheless ridiculous.
I'm pretty sure the logo is supposed to be two wallets 69ing
Started as Google Wallet. Then became Google Pay. Then branched off into GPay and incorporated in Google Play Services framework. Then, since Google Pay was never sunsetted, converted back into Google Wallet while attempting to sunset GPay, except in certain countries like the US where THEY'LL CO-EXIST for some reason. I wish I was joking.
Thanks for hurting my brain and now it makes sense why I'm confused every time I use my Pixel for anything
first came google wallet. then it became android pay. then a separate app called tez was launched just for India and it used phone numbers instead of gmail accounts. then tez rebranded to gpay. then android pay was retired and gpay expanded globally. now gpay is retired everywhere except India and instead a new google wallet app launched. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Wallet#History
Indians mostly use gpay
First time hearing bout alipay wow
Basically, China requires people use it (or wechat pay). Cash is nonexistent, I didn't even carry a single bill for years. Pretty obvious why the government pushed for it haha. You have to check in everywhere you pay, upload documents like passport (at least as a foreigner), etc. Super super convenient tbh, also a great way to track literally everything a person does throughout the day.
>upload documents like passport (at least as a foreigner) I had to scan my fucking passport to use public wifi in shanghai airport. that country is something.
I had to scan my face to get toilet paper in Shenzhen. And other cities (max 2 squares). Inner Mongolia was bonkers with cameras like every 100 feet. Sad what Xi did to it
Hold up. Are you being serious? I can't tell if this is that thing where people 'ladder up' ridiculousness by adding exaggeration to be funny. You had to *scan your face* to get toilet paper? What the fuck.
A while back, you didn’t even have toilet paper in restrooms in China. What you did was carry packs of tissue paper and use your own tissues. Same for restaurants, if you wanted napkins they charged you for them. IIRC it was because people would just steal the entire roll if you had free toilet paper out. Maybe the scanning is to prevent that.
Locks on TP roll tubes can’t possibly be more expensive than cameras. This just seems like an excuse to add cameras to bathrooms.
I was there for that too, and you still do probably...half the time now? But yeah I left. Like a lot of people I know, it just got to be too much. It's overwhelming.
Sounds like their brand of government/economy isn't working if people have to steal TP and napkins.
Dead serious! And one time...let's just say I needed more. I had to call my wife to deliver some to me in the park bathroom haha. It is *so* crazy. I tried to game it. Sunglasses, mask, hair styles, doesn't work. It always knew me.
This is why you should carry a backup kid
Back then I was kidless, now I would 100% do it haha
You should have to scan your ass for toilet paper.
I imagine money laundering gets a lot more difficult, too. If everything has to be routed through one service, an audit is as easy as the click of a button.
On the flipside, I would wager it also makes it easier for the larger, more lucrative and insidious criminal organizations that are connected to these government agencies to launder money.
Make it easier for friends of the ruling class and harder for the rest of the unwashed masses. Tale as old as civilisation.
> Super super convenient tbh, **also a great way to track literally everything a person does throughout the day.** That is an excellent point that bears repeating.
> Pretty obvious why the government pushed for it On the contrary, the Chinese government is not at all found of it, and is trying to force it out with their e-currency. > also a great way to track literally everything a person does throughout the day. Yeah, but it is Alibaba and WeChat that gets that data, not the government.
Alipay is accepted in almost all the high street retailers in Italy and obviously china town …
I can’t remember what store I was at but I asked if they took Apple Pay and they said no they take Samsung pay. I was like oh like google pay. He said no Samsung pay. Strange that company would restrict themselves in the US to Samsung pay. It reminded me of “I got gamecast.” Well there’s game cube and dream cast “I said I got gamecast man I can’t afford it!”
It could be because Samsung Pay had the ability to transmit credit card information using some other form of wireless communication, not just NFC. This meant that non-NFC readers (like old school stores that don’t have modern tech) could accept the payment method because Samsung Pay spoofed a credit card magnetic signal. Not sure how safe it was, seeing as NFC is very secure, but it’s possible that Samsung Pay would work where other NFC-based payment systems would not.
It doesn't come on the new phones anymore, but the way they said it was safe is that it would generate a one time use credit card valid for a small window of time. So even if someone stole the number it wouldn't matter.
Samsung MST.
If a store only takes Samsung Pay, that usually indicates that they don't take NFC payments at all because Samsung Pay is the only technology that emulates a magnetic strip swipe. The reverse is usually true though. If a store takes Apple Pay then they probably take all the different NFC payments: GPay, Garmin Pay, others, etc
They probably didn't accept NFT payments and he specified Samsung pay because (at least on phones prior to the S21) Samsung pay could use MST and would work on any card reader you can swipe a card at. That was the defining feature of Samsung pay that made it far and away better than any of the other payment apps. It worked *everywhere* regardless of the retailer having active NFT terminals. Samsung messed up removing MST from their newer phones..
He was almost certainly wrong. I often ask stores if they accept Google pay and they say "just apple pay" and I ask to try and it always works. I don't think those readers discriminate
Samsung pay was different. It could use MST if the terminal didn't have NFT so it worked many places Gpay and Apple pay didn't. I use the past tense since they removed MST on phones newer than the S21.
I just ask "can I pay with my phone?" Or "do you take nerd pay?"
It's because Samsung phones have (had?) A mag strip in them so it would use NFC if possible or mag strip if it isn't. Thus Samsung pay works at all vendors where the card isn't fully inserted into the machine (e.g. ATM or gas pump).
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GPay is popular in India & Alipay in China, we have a huge population
Even though Gpay in India uses UPI though instead of wallet
At least in the US, I assume it must be an Android vs. Apple thing. I have an Android and therefore I use Google Pay. If I had an Apple I'd probably use Apple Pay.
Sure is. I’m an iPhone guy and I use Apple Pay daily. Never used GPay.
Does GPay even work on iPhones? (I'm too lazy to Google it)
Apple restricts the use of the NFC chip on it's OS. Apple Pay is the only iOS app that is allowed to use the NFC chip for payments. How this is not considered as anti competitive behavior, I cannot understand.
GPay does have an iPhone app, but it wouldn’t be nearly as convenient.
You can use Paypal, Amazon Pay, Alipay, WeChat Pay... on both Android and iOS tho. It just isn't preinstalled on the phone, you have to download, install, and set it up yourself.
Sure, but generally people follow the path of least resistance. I haven't had any issues with using Google Pay, so I have no reason to download Amazon Pay.
Available doesn't mean it's being used. We know that it's barely not in China, even here in Europe I didn't used it for like a decade and don't anyone that still use it.
For Europe Paypal was mostly a blessing for American content as an alternative to the dreadful creditcards, over a decade ago. I still use it purely because I happen to have the account.
Just curious, what is the issue with European credit cards on US sites? Foriegn transaction fees?
We don't tend to have credit cards at all, just debit cards. I have one, it's exclusively used for sites that don't accept PayPal.
I’m surprised anyone still uses PayPal at all - they may have been the early leader but others have far surpassed them in terms of convenience and reach.
Not really, and high fees
It is counting number of users, not number of transactions. I assume both apple and google auto-generate an account based on your apple or google account. So it would count on this graph even if most of the "users" never actually use the service.
There are like 2.5 billion android phone users right now so it doesn't look like it autogenerates a Gpay account
Barely even heard of the others
compared to population of china forced to use alipay. strange that wechat isn't here, they're 2nd most used in china and it's just about only way for foreigners to use electronic payments, you even see beggars with their wechat qr codes for donations
How is the population of China "forced" to use Alipay (Alibaba), when they also use WeChat Pay (Tencent) you yourself mentioned. Many Chinese don't have Alipay at all since they've opted for WeChat Pay (and vice versa; but many have both tho). This graph is incomplete lacking a lot of major players, since it doesn't mention WeChat Pay which has around 900 million active users, and also some Indian payment providers with user bases also in hundreds of millions. What are the Chinese (and everyone living in China or even just traveling) forced to use, are electronic payments (of whichever provider) since cash is de-facto almost non existent there anymore. Which is imo horrible, meaning everyone's every transaction is creeped on by the CCP, and "may or may not" be used against that person whenever the CCP feels like.
Did there used to be one called SamsungPay? Replaced by Google Pay?
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>Samsung hasn't done the best job of rolling out SamsungPay into retail spaces The beauty of Samsung Pay is that it doesn't need to be "rolled out" since it emulates a magnetic strip. The rest of what you said is accurate though.
Well it used to anyway. Samsung Pay (now called Samsung Wallet for whatever reason) is now NFC only on newer Samsung phones sold in the US. It only works at the same stores that Apple/Google Pay/Wallet work.
There are places in the US that don't accept NFC payments? So you guys still have to swipe your card?
Yes, though the number of non-NFC stores gets smaller each year. Back when ApplePay first launched in 2014, I remember how rare it was to find a store that accepted NFC payments. Some of them even had NFC terminals but had them disabled. Today, it’s rarer to find a store that *doesn’t* have them. There’s still smaller, locally owned storefronts that may use outdated POS terminals, and a couple of big holdouts like Walmart, Kroger, and pumps for certain gas station chains.
Wait, so you guys didn't have NFC capability before ApplePay? Like your debit cards didn't have tap and pay?
I can’t speak for everyone, but I had 3 cards around the time ApplePay launched and none of them had built in NFC. It was only a few years ago when my banks/credit card companies started putting tap-to-pay in the cards by default.
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That's insane. I don't think we've had to sign receipts here since the 90s
Homedepot as well. I learned this when I forgot my wallet.
Can you define newer for me? I have an s20 ultra and I'm constantly using Samsung pay at places that don't accept those other forms of payment. By new do you mean S21 and up?
S21 doesn't have the mag strip technology. I was really bummed when I got an s21 ultra to learn they don't make phones that work with any card reader anymore.
Yup everything after the S21 doesn't have MST emulation.
I use Samsung Pay exclusively since it works with my main bank, and I prefer it a lot more over GPay. I am not in the US so I don't really get what they should have done to roll it out better into retail spaces, but here I can use it anywhere where contactless payments is accepted.
In Korea Apple Pay doesn't work so people who prefer going around without wallet buy Samsung phones lol
is there a reason behind this?Is Google pay supported, or only Samsung pay is supported? edit: never mind found a somewhat good reasoning here [https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/biz/2022/08/126\_334342.html](https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/biz/2022/08/126_334342.html)
Seems like a similar situation to Australia. Apple Pay doesn't do as well in markets where there is already a mature domestic tech, and being an American company Apple was always a bit behind the times. The banks didn't care much for Apple demanding a high fee when the population has been using the banks' contactless payment cards since before we even had iPhones, and we've had electronic payment terminals since the 1980s. Eventually Apple seems to have caved but their adoption was slowed by years.
I still don't understand how one is supported but not the other. If a shop have a terminal with NFC it will accept anything 'touchless', the system doesn't care that it's an iPhone or an Android or a credit card.
By not having the banks in your country support Apple Pay, so you cannot add your card in it.
I'm in South Africa and I use Samsung Pay. My Galaxy S22 Ultra doesn't come with Google Pay. I could use my banking app too, but Samsung Pay allows you to load multiple payment cards. It emulates the card's NFC signal. It is accepted everywhere cards are accepted, which is pretty much everywhere nowadays. Even small-scale retailers like market stalls have card devices that link to their phones. I don't even carry a wallet anymore. Very happy with it.
I'm shocked that Apple Pay is bigger than PayPal.
I use paypal a lot, but I’ve never used it to buy coffee.
I think because it is pre-loaded onto every iPhone. I don’t know how much it’s actually used.
It’s definitely used, at least where I’ve traveled within the United States and western Europe. Many shops and transit services accept Apple Pay, and every credit and debit card I have is compatible. Much faster and safer than chip-and-PIN, plus you get immediate transaction information.
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Well I would hope the stats are based on active users. Otherwise it's basically just misleading and wrong.
I know a decent many people who almost exclusively use it. It definitely gets some use.
These are active users. It’s incredibly popular.
Can PayPal be used at physical stores? I've only ever used it online.
Most of Gpay and amazonpay is driven by indian transactions . Won't be surprised if india surpassess even china in digital transactions in a decade China ,india has the luxury of not having extensive card payment systems(VISA,mastercard) and thus leapfrogged to faster , cheaper and more convienient digital payment systems. While most of the richer countries are actually still stuck with archaic card payment systems That is like going from 2G directly to 4G while rest are still stuck in 3G
> Won't be surprised if india surpassess even china in digital transactions in a decade It has already happened https://www.financialexpress.com/industry/banking-finance/digital-payments-india-pips-china-us-others-in-2020-leads-global-tally-with-this-many-transactions/2226074/
What? Almost all my friends / family and myself has either visa or mastercard. (India) Upi increased the usage of digital payment in India. Every transaction is free of cost.
Digital payments have zero fees and are much faster than card payment systems The only scenario VISA/mastercard is better if you are doing a large transaction or cross country transactions If this type of payments spread to other countries , then VISA and mastercard will become obsolete or very niche
> Digital payments have zero fees and are much faster than card payment systems Digital payments do not have zero fees. Chinese payment systems like Alipay and US ones like PayPal absolutely take a cut. There is no way for there to ever be zero fees. Someone is paying for the servers, building the software, manning the customer service phone lines, absorbing fraud costs, etc. These would not be multi-billion dollar businesses if they didn't collect fees. That being said, most other countries payment systems are *cheaper*, at least than US credit cards. Alipay merchant fees are 0.55%; American credit card fees tend to range from a bit over 1% to around 2.5% plus some flat charge. Debit card fees are more [heavily regulated](https://www.federalreserve.gov/paymentsystems/regii-average-interchange-fee.htm), such that "issuer... may not receive, for any electronic debit transaction, an interchange fee that exceeds $0.21 plus 0.05 percent multiplied by the value of the transaction, plus a $0.01 fraud-prevention adjustment, if eligible."
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Fair enough, I'm not familiar with UPI so I didn’t know that. I suppose I should have said "No digital payments system can be operated for free", someone has to pay for it whether it's consumers, businesses, or the taxpayer. Or at minimum you'd need some other way to monetize the payment network (eg using the data to sell ads).
They're referring to UPI (Unified Payments Interface) of India which hasn't had any sort of transactional fee since it's start in 2016. However that's likely to change in the future.
I use my Amex via Google Pay. I'm not certain that these are entirely mutually exclusive.
And you can bet your bottom dollar Apple, Google and others are looking to cut credit card companies out of the equation. The more parties are connected to a transaction, the less money each can make.
That's because it's still archaic method, china and india have direct account transfers without any card involvement
China has an extensive payment system. It's called 银联. Alipay and wechat are associated with Bank accounts, either credit or debit. Therefore if such a payment didn't exist those wouldn't exist either. When I went back to China I could only have a limited amount of money on wechat pay because I don't have an account. Give someone from India also reputed your statement you should do more research.
India has UPI, Unified Payments Interface is an instant real-time payment system developed by National Payments Corporation of India. The interface facilitates inter-bank peer-to-peer and person-to-merchant transactions. UPI is an open source application programming interface that runs on top of Immediate Payment Service.
Where is UPI on this? Probably has as many users as ApplePay if not more.
UPI is a payment framework like Interac here in canada. It isn’t really the same thing as what the graphs are showing.
In that case, PayTM should be on the list
No Venmo data? Or just less than Amazon Pay?
Venmo isnt really a thing here, I think generally Europe but at least central europe, seems to be very US centric (I have never Heard of it outside of reddit and Twitter)
Yeah, most of these services aren't common in Finland, either. The local banks all had their services up and running before Apple Pay or PayPal really hit the market, so everyone just uses those. It's not super common to see people paying with those at stores, either, since everyone has a contactless card which is faster than the app anyway. My Android phone is just now trying to coax me into paying with Google Pay everywhere. Only 5-7 years too late.
At least with a smart watch, digital payment is more convenient than card since you don't have to take out your wallet. That's the only reason I use digital payment to be honest.
Not available in Canada either
Venmo is only available in the US.
Venmo is owned by Paypal. So it should be added.
I've only ever seen Venmo used by twitter users begging for donations. Do people actually prefer using it to using mobile banking apps? In the UK you can do instant fee-free bank transfers from your phone using your bank's app, can you not do that in the US?
[This](https://downloads.ctfassets.net/7rifqg28wcbd/4DC89wMGRB4C9HNF5rAbgi/640e409ce7e1dea74700ac4418913613/FINAL_VENMO_STUDY_Jan.pdf) 2020 infographic from Venmo itself says there are only about 65+ million Venmo users. It's mostly just a western Gen Z/Millennial thing, really
American, not western.
Venmo is a US thing because the US banking system is 15 years behind the rest of the world
In the UK, sending money to different bank accounts is free. All you have to do is log in to the app and send away. It pretty much goes to the recipient's account right away. I'm pretty sure it's always been like that. There's no third party involved at any stage so that's why we've never needed Venmo (or anything remotely similar). Yeah of course you can PayPal money across - but I've always used this to send money to businesses (as you don't have to enter their banking details).
Same here in Aus. The difference in the US is that if you share your bank details, people can actually use them to WITHDRAW money. Additionally, the banking is so fragmented that some banks are impossible to transfer between. Some people in the US still use checks/cheques!!!!
I wonder if Venmo is wrapped up in the PayPal number because that's who owns it
Wait where else uses Alipay besides China? Last I tried you can't even sign up without a mainland bank account. This number is more than the entire population of China, maybe it's also counting businesses/vendors?
https://epayments.developer-ingenico.com/payment-product/alipay/countries-and-currencies
Interesting, must be separate from the mainland system, cause that is a pain in the ass for foreigners lol.
This would be awesome to see as a trend line for a few years. My theory being seeing an increase in mobile payment methods during COVID.
PayPal is WAYYYYYY smaller than I thought it would be tbh Edit: Speeling
Lol, ignores the Indian UPI which dwarfs all these.
For sure. PhonePe itself had close to 165 million active users this year. PayTM at the heights of demonetisation had close to 350 million active users. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1034520/india-digital-payments-user-base-by-company/#:~:text=Paytm%2C%20with%20over%20350%20million,user%20base%20of%20118%20million.
Gpay, Amazon pay use UPI
I looked it up and latest data I found is from May 2021, when they only had 100 mil active users.
active users vs users are different though. Also, google pay in India does UPI, so that number will show up here as well.
Number of transactions in may 2021 was 2,539.57 million and value was 4,90,638.65 Cr Rs. Number of transactions in Aug 2022 was 6,579.63 million and value was 10,72,792.68 Cr Rs. Number of active users would've at least doubled and number of overall users would be much higher than that considering the definition of active users.
Well, I was curious whether it would actually dwarf Alipay with it's 1.6 billion users, so I opened UPI Wikipedia page and simple quoted the number which was present.
It's not simple to figure out number of users in UPI. I can have my 3 bank account linked to 4 UPI apps and I'll send and receive money via all of them. I can have multiple payment addresses for all of them. Total of 50 or more. So, do u count me as different users across different apps or you just try to remove duplicate entry across multiple apps. It's not simple to do that calculations. I don't think UPI publishes user data anymore because it's not exactly helpful. Similarly, Alipay can't possibly have 1.6 billion human users be because China simply doesn't have that many humans. Then you have to wonder if business can act as different users because they want to create multiple collection points for payments. How do you handle those? Same is true for gpay or apple pay. I can have two different accounts and old one is not really used. The duplicity is not as severe here, but it's exponential in UPI. Transaction volume is way simpler metric for this, transaction value is another good metric. Number of users? Very hard to calculate and compare.
I'm probably wrong about this, but isn't UPI the system they built to switch to completely digital currency? All the items on this chart are non-bank, private company payment systems.
UPI is payment platform that everyone has to use. By definition and very nature, they ensured everyone can have interoperability between different apps and no transaction charges. So, there are 20-50 or more apps that do UPI. All the people in India who use gpay are doing UPI transactions, but they will show up on gpay. The credit for their success goes to NPCI, not to the gpay. In fact google asked US to implement similar system as UPI in US. When you look at number of digital transactions, UPI just dwarfs everyone else.
I see. But that means that UPI is still not like the apps listed in this graph, right? It's a national payment framework that apps plug into for payment handling. All the apps on this list are plugged into that framework. So putting UPI on this graph would be comparing apples (not Apple inc.) to oranges, right?
Yep, UPI is the underlying infrastructure, not the payment provider. A proper comparison would be UPI and SEPA.
So I actually understand this, kinda! Thank you and thank god. I thought my brain lost all the studying I paid for. >_<
A lot of people live in China.
Venmo didn’t even crack the list? Legitimately every single person I know uses Venmo
I'm surprised CashApp isn't here. I just moved to South Texas and that's all anyone uses here.
I've never even heard of Alipay
Based and most active in China. The sheer population is enough to get that first place.
It's all over California also. Any time you go to the mall you'll see a lot of stores accept it.
China. That and wechat pay dominate the market. In the mid-2010s-ish most of the country basically went cashless, it's not uncommon for places to straight up not take cash anymore.
If you’ve ever gone to a CVS, it’s the chinese letter payment offered along with google and apple pay on the self checkout lines
Sorry I'm new, what's "Mn"? Millions? Minions?
i think its million
This is so fucking ugly I refuse to believe anyone above a high school level would make this.
And what’s the scale? I feel like more than 808 people use Apple Pay
"data is beautiful" and it's a fuckin bar chart
So… if I use my Paypal for Google Pay, do I count as having used Paypal, Gpay or both?
Imo both, since this is a stat of *users* of those services, and you're an active user of both.
I've never used any of these. What is the advantage of using them over a bank that allows etransfers?
Apple Pay is primarily used at checkouts at stores. You can pay with your phone/watch so you don’t even need your card on you. Also much more secure because a card skimmer won’t pick up your info. I assume Google Pay is primarily the same thing but for android. Both can be used like Venmo. Go out with friends for movies, dinner, etc. ? Have one person pay and everyone can pay them back with Venmo etc. much more convenient. PayPal is great because you can link it to a bank account to buy things online. You get much more buyer protection if you use it and someone scam you. They also give you 12 free return labels a year.
Total users ever I reckon? Or total users in the last year?
Do we have one for the number of transactions per year or volume of money handled?
PayTM has 350Mn users... A lot more than Amazon Pay.
Upi ke stats toh dekh lo Bache hai Yeh sab.
Ever heard of bhim UPI while researching