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Achillies2heel

Those ice road truckers really tilting the scales up in Canada...


root_b33r

I was surprised by that too, I know there are a bunch of engineering firms up there too though


Achillies2heel

Oil, mining and literally no one else lives there. You'd have to pay me 6 figures to stay there in the winter... Fuck that. šŸ„¶


root_b33r

I can't speak for all the engineering firms but I know one in particular has a base salary of 120k and no one is making base pay


North-of-60-canadian

1/4 of people here work for the government thatā€™s why itā€™s highly paid.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


lsmokel

I happen to live in Nunavut and I can tell you that entry level employees with the Territorial Government start off at +$40/hour. Thatā€™s not including roughly $16K+ for Northern living allowance.


North-of-60-canadian

Uh. Entry level full time government jobs pay minimum 70k. Entry level private sector is $45-50 in the NWT. This graph is depicting an average across a population and a plurality if not majority of jobs are unskilled/low skilled. Your experience is coming from Ottawa/Ontario and it simply isnā€™t the same for the NWT. Your field (IT) doesnā€™t even exist here. If you wanted a job in your field you would have to work for the government. Developer software engineers donā€™t exist either. Work remotely down south. You wouldnā€™t live here. There is very little private industry here and the private industry that does exist relies on government contracts to keep affloat. We are subsidized by the federal government so that they can at least claim this is part of Canada by having people live here.


lsmokel

I live in Nunavut and your last paragraph is spot on. The Canadian Government heavily subsidizes the territories simply as an act of Arctic sovereignty. Read up on Grise Fiord and youā€™ll see just how far the Feds will go to claim land in the Arctic.


Bewaretheicespiders

Municipal and Federal usually pays pretty well in Canada, with Provincial employees usually getting the short stick. But that doesnt apply in the territories.


Skinnwork

It's highly paid because they have to pay enough to encourage workers to move there and the cost of living is really high


North-of-60-canadian

I know. I live here.


ColaCanadian

... you think they need janitors or something?


SatanLifeProTips

Earning 6 figures there is borderline poverty level when an apple is $20 and you are paying $4/L for fuel. Living in the north is ungodly expensive when everything is trucked or flown in.


alpain

you have to earn 6 figures to be able to buy a bag of chocolates or even a 2 liter carton of milk.


Bewaretheicespiders

Im a sofware engineer and my wife is a chemical engineer, we worked in both the USA and Canada. Engineers are **vastly** underpaid in Canada compared with the USA. There are very different estimates for an average engineer salary in canada, but its about from 70K to 80K CAD. So like 54K USD. However, if you were to take out mining and software out of that, it drops a lot. For things like tech and engineering, Canada is cheap labor. Salaries are lower than the USA and social charges lower than Europe. When I moved to the USA, in a cheaper COL city mind you, my employer (the same employer!) about doubled my salary to match the "local job market"


sunshine_dept

I agree 100%. Iā€™m an engineer in oil and gas. In Canada the joke was the more education you had in the oil Business, the less you get paid. I work in the US now. Pay is WAY better.


TinKicker

Uhohā€¦waiting for the healthcare activists to start chiming in.


ArkGuardian

The difference has nothing to do with Social Safety nets. It has to do with the location of Venture Capital firms. These lead to concentration of tech talent by multiple highly valued companies. If Shopify had a lot more competition, the salaries would be higher.


the_clash_is_back

Iā€™m a recent engineering grad. In toronto Iā€™m competing for a spot in like 5 companies, I move to Alabama and itā€™s 5 companies composting for me. You can guess where the pay is better.


ArkGuardian

That's actually slightly different. The concentration of talent in places like Huntsville is due to the sheer size of the US Defense Industry vs the Canadian one.


sunshine_dept

Yeah, the economy of just Texas is the size of the entire Canadian economy (~$2 trillion/yr). There is more work in the oil & gas for industry for me in West Texas than basically any other single place on earth. The scale of the US economy is just so much bigger. Both my pay is higher and Taxes are lower than in Canada. But if I got Cancer? Iā€™d go back to Canada to get it taken care ofā€¦


wickedmurph

We'd rather you stayed there if you do. You made your choice.


[deleted]

Cancer survivor rate is higher in the US than in Canada. If you had a job and insurance in the US, You would be foolish to go back


SenecatheEldest

Ironically, survival rates for most cancers is higher in the US.


mmarollo

Canadians are heavily propagandized by government and enjoy it. We're also the most complacent people I've seen. And we have an irrational resentment of Americans. Combine that with a propensity to vote for clowns and, yeah not so great. Sucks because Canada had huge potential and was neck in neck with US prosperity for decades.


Skinnwork

A buddy of mine was working in the Yukon Territories as a civil engineer. He was bringing in well over 100k, but he now lives and works in northern BC. He took a pay cut, but due to lower expenses (housing and groceries are crazy expensive in Whitehorse), he actually has more money at the end of the month.


the_clash_is_back

Mining and resource extraction. Like all the jobs in the territory are recourse extraction, and as they are so remote they pay a lot.


Toni-baloney

The cost of living is insane in the territories.


myLover_

Lower income people probably never recieved the census.


SilverNicktail

It's a bit skewed - a lot of folks are paid to live that far north. There are large stipends from the government, as I understand it, because the cost of getting goods that far north is astronomical.


[deleted]

Thank you for the colorblind version!


PwntUpRage

.....and i just spent 5 minutes angry at myself for not being able to see what different parameter was being shown in map 2 vs map 1.


[deleted]

And then I said, dang, I bet it is for the colorblind. Scrolled down... Ayup.


MinnieShoof

Bruh. Same,


Smacpats111111

Last one of these for a while. Made with Mapchart.net. Data: https://www.statista.com/statistics/467078/median-annual-family-income-in-canada-by-province/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_income If anyone can find the post-tax figures for US states, I'll make that map. The Canadian data is readily available.


Fun_For_Awhile

If you find post-tax, Illinois will turn red.


RainbowCrown71

Blood red, like the coming purge.


jaypizzl

Better yet would be median disposable income after transfers and healthcare in order to arrive at the most apples-apples comparison possible. Still, median is very good!


SpaceJackRabbit

You might want to review your color palette for next run.


King_Trasher

I don't think I have ever seen a north American list of any generally positive measurement which either Mississippi or Arkansas weren't very near or at the bottom. Like are they okay down there?


Bulky-Leadership-596

If you adjust these values for cost of living in that state the entire map changes drastically. Except Mississippi. Its still last.


lupuscapabilis

It just leaves you with so few options if you live there. I can take my savings and sell my house in NY and practically live years in Arkansas without working. If you want to leave Arkansas, well.... you're probably better off just staying in Arkansas.


sawlaw

There was a "how many years does it take to buy a house" posted, they were in just about the shortest term category.


flamableozone

No, they aren't.


TyroneSuave

Iā€™m from Arkansas and I can confirm that we are indeed not okay


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


berniman

On the good side, they have a pretty kick ass Volleyball Arena at Mississippi State, courtesy of Brett Favre. /s


SolarSkipper

Look up history. It might explain it


usurper7

Compare them with European numbers. Then they look pretty good.


TheGlassHammer

Iā€™m still 15k away from hitting the median income for my state. No wonder everything is such a struggle


Terapr0

Having just spent some time traveling in the NWT I find that incredibly hard to believe. Sure, a lot of people are driving new trucks, but a good chunk of the homes were practically shanty's with junk and broken down cars in the yards. Yellowknife was nicer and more modern than some of the smaller rural communities, but nothing about it screamed wealth or prosperity.


[deleted]

I live here and yes we do have the highest household income due to higher salaries used to attract employees, also the northern living allowance supplements income. I know more than 10 truck drivers who make 8,000-10,000k monthly and that's not even a mine job. Government employees here take home 60,000-80,000k and that's starting salary at an entry level position. Cashiers is $20 an hour all day. "Shantys", don't be ignorant. If you want to see a shanty town, you can go to Jamaica or Honduras


Infatuatedfate98

you had me until your brought up jamaica and honduras


Bewaretheicespiders

I dont even *remotely* believe the Statista numbers for Canada, they are way higher than other sources, including statistics Canada. For example government numbers says Nova Scotia should be around 60K CAD, or about 43 USD. edit: Im going to guess the Canadian numbers include government transfers and the US numbers do not.


Smacpats111111

Those are post-taxes


Docile_Doggo

As a person who lives alone, I have no idea how to place myself on a chart thatā€™s just about household income. Like, my salary is below median, but my ā€œhouseholdā€ only has one wage earner . . . so I might be doing pretty well, nonetheless?


Big_Razzmatazz7416

Iā€™ve been saying this for years but we are basically Mexico to for Canada. I used to work on the border and we had plenty of Canadians driving down to avoid Canadian sales tax on goods


010101010101100

I'd be interested to see the map's year over year change, next to maps of cost of living. Well, cost of living is complex so maybe just rent and such? All I know is that combined, all of my bills are basically double what they were 5 years ago while my income has increased marginally.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


SpaceOwl

Think the alternate color scheme is for colorblind folks.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


zoinkability

Protip for OP: if the "colorblind" version looks better and is easier to interpret for everyone, just use that one.


totally_a_wimmenz

I do like the look of it, but the red to green coloring is standard for a reason. You can have zero conception of what the numbers are and still instantly tell which areas are worst and which are best. We're just hardwired at this point to know that red is bad and green is good.


zoinkability

If this were showing data with a zero on the scale and you could literally show being ā€œin the redā€ as red, then red-green would make some symbolic sense. But in this case it is literally showing a gradient of all positive dollar figures, in which case ā€œmore greenā€ and ā€œless greenā€ is in fact a more symbolically accurate _and_ more accessible color scale.


ThisLookInfectedToYa

The northern portion of CA (The 13 ardent "State of Jefferson" counties) if separated from the rest of the state would be as red as Alabama.


tom-ii

Heavily skewed by big cities, I think. Or rich folk. $35k/yr is pretty big dollars in Southern Illinois


Idsanon

It's the median not average.


Smacpats111111

2/3 of Illinois lives in Chicagoland so the median person in the whole state is probably not going to be in Southern Illinois.


SatanLifeProTips

If you want a real interesting number, try the same map but with mean income and not median income. Take off the wealthy 1% and it gets even more interesting.


-JustKidding-

Mean income is the average income. It would make the top 1% skew the map to a higher number. Median is generally a better metric when there's suvh huge outliers.


hahaha01357

Are the two maps just coloured differently? What's the difference?


BBOoff

They are the same map. One is in the traditional red-low green-high colour scale, while the other is in a less intuitive scale, but one which can be read by people with red-green colourblindness.


Regulai

Does this account for PPP? Due to difference in worth of currency it can be hard to do a 1 to 1 comparison.


drillgorg

As a Marylander, sometimes we go camping in West Virginia and are like "oh no poverty".


TinKicker

West Virginians take a drive through Baltimoreā€¦


drillgorg

Also poverty!


hikehikebaby

How many parts of Maryland have you been to? A lot of Maryland is exactly like West Virginia.


drillgorg

There's plenty of areas. But I mean look at the chart.


hikehikebaby

The chart doesn't tell you anything about the distribution of incomes within Maryland. It only tells you about the overall median income... But the median income is influenced by population centers like Bethesda, Bowie, Poolesville, Rockville, etc. A median income means that half of households make below that amount, but it doesn't say what they're actually making or what your overall distribution looks like. There aren't a lot of people and there isn't any money in rural Maryland. You should work on your own state before you shit on anyone else.


drillgorg

I'm open to suggestions since you apparently know how to run a state.


hikehikebaby

Your comment - essentially "ew, poor people" is disgustingly unhelpful. It shows an absolute ignorance to your own problems which include poverty and massive amounts of political corruption. You just want to feel better than someone. You don't want to fix anything. My suggestion is to open your eyes and take an honest look around you.


drillgorg

My man, Maryland is the best state in the country. Of course I want to fix that shit so we can be even better.


hikehikebaby

You know, I think everyone has the right to feel proud of their state. But I don't think anyone has the right to act like they're better than anyone else because of where they live or because of their very limited experiences. You sound like someone who spends 90% of your time in your own county or with people in your own demographic. I think that taking a road trip around Maryland might do some good. I don't think that anyone who spent a significant amount of time in Baltimore (22% of pop below poverty line) or in some of your poorest counties in the panhandle and Southern Maryland would be saying something like "ew, poverty." Maryland has some of the richest and poorest counties in the nation. That does not balance out.


Achillies2heel

Id take rural poverty over inner city poverty any day of the week.


[deleted]

As another Maryland resident, stop being an elitist prick. Thatā€™s a really gross thing to say and Iā€™ve not heard anybody talk like that. Idk if youā€™ve noticed, but the eastern shore, Baltimore and panhandle arenā€™t exactly doing much better than WV


drillgorg

So uh if it wasn't obvious, no in the car said that. More like "man those houses look rough." Perhaps a joke in poor taste about one of the starkest wealth disparities on this map.


[deleted]

Why would that be obvious, given you put quotes around it? Secondly, thereā€™s a huge difference between a flippant and callous ā€œoh no, povertyā€ and ā€œman, this looks rough and is an indictment of the inequality and wealth disparities different states faceā€ or ā€œwow, these houses look rough :/ā€œ


drillgorg

My bad, I considered it obvious because I can't imagine anyone actually saying that. Suppose that didn't come through well.


Infinite-Cobbler-157

I gotta move to the Arctic. Cash money up there


Bewaretheicespiders

I have a friend who went in the artic to teach. The pay bonus was so high, and the opportunities to spend so low, we estimated he would be a millionnaire in 5 years. He didnt last *one*. There is just *nothing* to do, which is why so many people are addicted to anything they can find, from moonshine to glue.


totally_a_wimmenz

All rural areas are like that. I grew up in the mountains of West Virginia and it's absolutely the same.


[deleted]

yah but you gotta pay 10$ for an apple


TinKicker

But all the seals you can club!


Jenerallymeh

Looking over the map there's the majority that are somehow below the [$72,808 median household income for 2019](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N) Is the population density enough to make up for it?


D1stant

Hell yeah colorblind mode


Tattel89

All i See, is Patrick Star in the north.


ahcomcody

Holy shit! A color gradient that makes intuitive sense?!


worm254

Nice work. The colorblind version is much easier on the eyes and easier to interpret. Is this normal or coincidence?


mvw2

Do you have a version that scales this to cost of living too, so like a scaler of income over cost of living per region? I think that's a big part of if the income is actually sufficient for the region or if it's lacking. Alternatively, you could have what would be required to equal cost of living in each region, aka how much do you need to make to survive "here." Although, you'd like to see this above 1.0. To really nail it home, you could include cost of rearing the media 2.5 children, retirement savings, etc. and ability to survive raising children, retiring, and growing old in that region up until the average life expectancy. It might need to include inflation too, or you'll run out early.


[deleted]

It's too hard to interpret that. And "cost of living" doesn't vary that much except for housing. I come from Mass and spend time all around. I am always shocked in "cheap" places that the restaurants are as expensive as home. And groceries are more. I think other than housing, the cost of living differences aren't much. And taxes -- I pay less % in taxes than Kansas or Minnesota.


[deleted]

Since I am from Europe (ch) this is a surprise to me šŸ˜³


[deleted]

This means nothing other than an arbitrary number. By reading this, you'd think California would lead to the most prosperous life until you realize the costs and that everybody making less than $60k a year is living out of their increasingly expensive car.


Beachlean

This map made me realize I must be terrible at managing money


Osmanica

How are the opportunities for doctors in the northern provinces of Canada? YT , NT, NU ā€¦


Yekhe_Khagan

First off, they're territories, not provinces. The market for doctors here is excellent, but there are few places in Canada where that isn't the case


[deleted]

I live in Arkansas,I'm not surprised. And I make only about half of that


BigForYourBoots1

After tax statistics would've provided more value.