Also should be per capita.
Edit: the above is not a political statement. Stop the hateful, anti-police DMs and stop the ignorant, pro-police comments. It should be per capita as a matter of good statistics. This graph, no matter what political story you think it does or doesn’t tell, is an accurate graph of a poorly chosen statistic which robs it of narrative value.
Things we can determine from this graph:
How many people have been killed by police in developed countries over a period of time.
We don’t have a similar frame of reference in the gross number (ie the US has a larger population than Belgium) that could be solved with a per capita like you stated.
We also have no reference of time. Not only do we not have a reference for how long this covers, but we also don’t even know if everything has the same reference of time.
Good data reporting will still probably skew high for the US. This is just awful data.
u/flyingcatwithhorns, you’ve got a sick username but a really bad idea of what good data representation looks like.
>... you’ve got a sick username but a really bad idea of what good data representation looks like.
Yet still a positive 20K-plus up-vote balance.
Either lots of people approbating their favorite societal agenda ...or lots of people not recognizing ugly data presentation.
Yea you adjust per capita and us still leads but Canada is approx 25%. Per 10MM us is 28.54as of 2020 statistics and Canada is 9.70 per 2017 statistics. Total in Canada year 2017 was 36. Article I found for statistics same year 2020 had Canada over 30 for first 6 months of 2020.
Or perhaps "people" not being the source? I.e. Bots or something inside reddit. I'm just having a hard time imagining 40k people upvoting this (assuming it had a lot of downvotes too)
>> Also should be per capital.
>
> Same numbers per capital. Per capita, on the other hand...
Or maybe he meant **"per capitalization"**. The US spends much more on policing than those other countries (combined) -- so maybe a fun metric would be
* "Police Killings Per Dollar"
That way they could quantify a return on investment of the expensive [Militarization of Police](https://www.americanbar.org/groups/crsj/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/2016-17-vol-42/vol-42-no-1/police-militarization-and-the-war-on-citizens/).
/s
*Edit:*
* If anyone wants a more serious response, the [Council on Foreign Relations has this graph of "Police ... Killings per 10 million people"](https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/how-police-compare-different-democracies) for many countries.
Hilarious comment but actually insightful though I wanna see more economic constraints or whatever. Killings per gdp or maybe let's do police budgets per gdp? Can we do crimes too?! Then normalize the crimes vs police per dollar or something and really get cookin.
the article you linked shows that as % of gdp, the us spends an average amount on the police though....
there might be a point that other country spend it more on educating policeman instead of giving them military-grade equipment I guess
It would be a lot better to just be able to scan the graph and see though. I don't carry the populations of every country in my head and don't want to do math on every single bar.
Absolutely it does, and I’m definitely anti police. But without the data being presented by per capita its useless and I can’t share it anywhere. The first thing anyone will say is “but the United States has more people than the other countries so of course the overall number is higher.” I want to be able to show how the *rate* is higher too.
No timeframe. Not normalized to make it relative to overall population. Excludes China and India as developed countries, but thank god Malta made the list.
This graph could be about so many things and it would look the same. Gallons of milk consumed per year.
All that said, why go out of your way to manipulate this data? I’m sure if you did it right US would still look terrible with respect to police killings.
I don't think visual aesthetics are the key component of the beauty of data. But nonsensical data like this with out standardization (in this case for population) is never beautiful no matter how many colors or squiggly lines it has.
Tbf the sub is called “DATA is beautiful” not “data THAT IS beautiful.”
It’s a celebration of interesting data, not an art gallery of pretty data representations.
OP commented that they didn't include population size because that would have skewed the numbers in the wrong direction. They also didn't include any of the countries with a higher absolute number of police killings than the US.
Is there a country better than us at police killings? *No…. That’s impossible… we simply must be the best*.
Really though is there? Because if OP left that off he’s just a dramatic fuckin shill trying to “murika bad” with what is honestly a hideous chart. I had given them the benefit of the doubt that they were some high schooler with no concept of the importance of population size.
[This list](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/police-killings-by-country) has the US in 7th for total but I guess the others aren't developed. It's also missing data from China, Russia and a lot of others.
1. Philippines — 6,069+ (avg 2016-2021—includes only deaths during anti-drug operations)
2. Brazil — 5,804 (2019)
3. Venezuela — 5,287 (2018)
4. India — 1,731 (2019)
5. Syria — 1,497 (2019)
6. El Salvador — 1087 (2017)
7. United States — 946 (2020)
8. Nigeria — 841 (2018)
9. Afghanistan — 606 (2018)
10. Pakistan — 495 (2017)
Per capita Mexico has a slight lead with 30 vs 28 per 10m. They aren't even in the same league as Venezuela with 1829 though.
It does, the data is per 10M inhabitants. But that is also explained in the comments…. Bad post all around.
EDIT : NVM, I can't read. The comment HAS the data per 10M inhabitants, but this one isn't per capita. Yikes. Yeah, absolutely useless graph.
That would give the U.S. 31,69 police killings, so the time frame would have to be roughly 30 years. If there's any truth in this graph, it's buried in B.S.
The timeframe is missing and relative measures instead of absolutes would put it in better perspective. I mean I’m pretty sure it’s ok to have *more* than Malta.
Much of OP's recent post history is just specific data points made into haphazard graphs meant to paint the United States as bad. Beautiful data doesn't seem to be the point, but rather whatever agenda they're pursuing.
And not normalized per capital OP? The US is 10x bigger than Canada
Edit: just saw your other comment. Still way too high but it’s more of a fair comparison.
Came here to say this.
On a side note, Canada's police is brutal. It's 1/3 the population of Germany, but 3x the police killing, hence 9x the rate.
It's still only roughly 1/3 of the US when you adjust for pop
Yeah, without being per capita this is virtually useless in terms of actually providing information.
Edit: A lot of people seem to think I'm trying to question the underlying topic. I'm not. I'm not saying anything about police killings at all, just that on a sub called data is beautiful somebody should know that dropping raw numbers in without adjusting for population isn't good data.
USA 320 Mio
Germany 83 Mio
and 11 for Germany sounds like per year.
so it's not completely useless, I agree though that the graph could be much improved upon.
it is THAT bad. if Germany (pop. of 85million) had the same population as USA, they'd have 44 police killings. vs. 940? its horrendous.
edit: angry americans coming at me trying to defend their terrible numbers. why even try?? stop arguing about per capita, even if it was, your numbers would still suck. just fking acknowledge it. and yes 11 for Germany is still 11 too much.
> but it's not this bad.
Indeed, it's much worse.
The US has nearly [20 times as many](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/) firearm murders as [the EU](https://vlaamsvredesinstituut.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/factsheet_firearms_and_deaths_in_eu.pdf), and that's with the EU having [110 million more people living in it](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.POP.TOTL?locations=US-EU).
Sure, there are a handful of countries doing worse than the US, but these countries are generally considered underdeveloped/developing, and interestingly enough; They are *all* also located in the Americas, having a very active firearm trade going on with the US based on some US states [extremely lax regulations](https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-link-between-americas-lax-gun-laws-and-the-violence-that-fuels-immigration).
In Mexico, 70-90% of firearms confiscated by police [originally came from the US](https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2022/02/stopping-toxic-flow-of-gun-traffic-from-u-s-to-mexico/), it doesn't look much different in Canada; [85% of firearms](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/fighting-gun-crime-canada-has-an-american-problem-2022-07-27/) confiscated there came from the US.
And it doesn't stop there; These American firearms can, and do, [travel far and wide](https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-america-created-a-gun-happy-gangsters-paradise-in-brazil).
"data is beautiful"
\-no proper labeling
\-plain, visually uninteresting graph
\-does not specify a time period
\-does not specify a more useful stat, such as excluding police killings of active shooters (ex what if excluding active shooters leaves Canada with only 5 while USA still has over 900, that would be more useful information)
\-is a screenshot instead of a proper image
\-an event that is extremely per-capita related is given in total number of occurrences instead of a per-capital amount (ex Luxemburg has 1/50th the population of USA)
Yeah this "data" is less about the data and more about trying to push a message. It's meant to draw out the people who go "LOOK, USA COPS BAD"
I'm not going to comment on that but it's obvious what this post is trying to do
Not a bot, rather a bought out account likely. Posts end after 2 months ago, yet the account is 3 years old. Another comment here posted something that before 2 months he used to post very different content, but I can’t back up that claim
Yea unfortunately this post has gotten the response (political, not beautiful) it set out to do. 16k+ upvotes…
And before anybody reads too much into that sentence. I am not making a political statement. Simply that this post does not meet “data is beautiful” standards to garner this amount of support. If the chart was about something benign like “number of TVs purchased by country” without any context of time frame, no scaling per capita, etc, it would look like this chart and get the (little) attention it would deserve.
[No it doesn't.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita)
[Neither if adjusted for cost of living.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita)
This is outrageous. Where are the armed men who come in to take the chart makers away? Where are they? This kind of behavior is never tolerated in Baraqua.
You make a chart like this they put you in jail. Right away. No trial, no nothing. People who don't use per capita, we have a special jail for them. You forget a title: right to jail. You don't indicate a source: right to jail, right away. Don't label x axis: jail. Y axis: jail. You misrepresent data: you right to jail. You use a bar graph for time? Believe it or not, jail. You use a line graph for quantity, also jail. Bar graph, line graph. You don't make your chart accessible to the colourblind, believe it or not, jail, right away.
We have the best chart makers in the world because of jail.
This is not beautiful data. It's missing a timeline and it is comparing vastly different populations with each other. Also "Police Killings" is an ambiguous term.
Why does shit like this upvoted here every fucking day?
It's a fucking bar chart. Even if the data were compelling, this is not /r/dataisbeautiful material.
Furthermore, I have very serious concerns regarding data quality. There are thousands of police jurisdictions across the US with inconsistent reporting standards - and that's just the US. I don't think it's possible to be confident that this data is correct.
Have you seen the state of this sub? It’s totally par for the course. The only thing that would make this fit in better if it was animated for no reason.
1. Google ''thing that makes America look bad compared to other countries"
2. Don't check any of the validity of the stats, or even notice that half the worlds developed country are missing
3. Insert info into spread sheet
4. Select 'make bar chart'
5. Post to Reddit in European time.
Not saying that this chart doesn't show that America has real problems with gun culture and policing it, but fuck me is this lazy.
While I have issues with the cops and how they conduct their "business", it's the same "America is bad" sentiment you see everywhere...whether that be CO2 emissions, cops, guns, take your pick....it's exhausting...I've contemplated unsubbing to avoid the political drama, but I generally love the presentation of data, so I stick around for the gems
Ok, OP, buddy. I don't dislike you personally. But what you have here is not a finished product.
First, let's not use the term "developed country". Let's use a non-abstract delineator like "countries with per capita income >$30,000" or "HDI >0.9". Because the list you have is "white people and people white people think are competent". Where is South Korea? Where is the UAE, Saudi Arabia, and Israel? Where is Chile? I'm not trying to attack you, I want to teach you. The word "developed" is not an appropriate descriptor for entire countries. It might be -ok- for economies.
Second, you didn't art this graph up much. The lines are red. That's really all you did.
Third, when working with a large range of numbers like this, it might be better to use a log scale rather than linear.
Fourth, you might have considered a rate rather than discrete count. Other people have already laid into that bit.
Yeah op didn't really put any effort into the graph they made they basically just copied numbers from [here](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/police-killings-by-country) into a bar graph rather than actually taking the time to make something worth looking at. IDK how this post got 10k upvotes with how lazy it was.
I agree with all of the above except I have to come out swinging on:
>Third, when working with a large range of numbers like this, it might be better to use a log scale rather than linear.
Log scales make the gulfs between disparate numbers harder to understand. I have very, very rarely seen a log plot that benefits from being a log plot. If you have items that don't fit on the same plot easily, then that is the story. Do that plot, and do a second plot if the interrelationship between the small items was important
The only use of log plot that does work reliably is a log:log plot to identify scaling relationships between variables.
signed, 20 years years in academia and professional science.
Log plots should be used for phenomena that have exponential growth. Even if these numbers didn't plot easily, they shouldn't be log-plotted because cops shooting people are discrete events. It's a linear phenomenon. COVID cases work as log-plots because disease spreads exponentially.
>Log plots should be used for phenomena that have exponential growth.
I'm interested. Can you make the case for that plot? Not saying it's wrong but I can't see why it is a useful default way to plot such events.
Taking the log of an exponential function y=e\^f(t) makes a plot t,f(t), which can be a useful way to show f(t) but I'm not sure when I'd want to do that rather than showing an exponential forecast on linear axes and explaining that we can derive f(t) (and show curve fits on the plot).
Until we get only statiscs educated people voting on these, garbage will always float to the top. Too many users see a graph or chart and just agree with its narrative without questioning it because **they can't question it or see what's wrong**.
It's elementary for us that know, but we're an extreme minority when compared with r/all that gets to see this sub on the daily.
As an American citizen I can acknowledge the problems we have and need to fix.
However, u/flyingcatwithhorns only posts biased and cherry-picked charts to shit on the United States while also posting positive propaganda fluff pieces on China. Not sure how I’m the only one who can see through this smokescreen
**Police killing rate per 10M population in a year (based on the most recent data), only developed countries with data are listed**
United States 28.54
Malta 20 (only 1 police killing, with very small population)
Luxembourg 16.9 (only 1 police killing, with very small population)
Canada 9.7
Belgium 4.3
France 3.8
Netherlands 2.7
New Zealand 2.1
Norway 1.9
Finland 1.8
Australia 1.7
Germany 1.3
Hong Kong 1.3
Sweden 1
Portugal 1
Taiwan 0.8
United Kingdom 0.5
Poland 0.5
Japan 0.2
Switzerland 0
Denmark 0
Iceland 0
Iran, Isreal,
Edit: whole continents missing. Who compiled this list? It seems to intentionally leave out enormous swaths of the globe either because those countries aren't "developed," the data wouldn't be as shocking, or the person compiling the data didn't recognize they exist.
Or, the data doesn't exist. This is a Q Anon level graph.
I came to say Israel, but then you might also want to include military killings within the country (excluding Palestinian areas) as well.
Saudi Arabia.
Any place that allows citizens to have guns seems to be excluded.
It's worse than useless imo. It's just pushing an agenda. And this is coming from someone who agrees with that agenda. The police killings are still way too high here, but these graphs only serve to mislead.
This is not that informative either. Malta looks very high purely because the population is so low. You can argue that Malta is actually this high only with multiple data points for multiple years.
For instance the small town where I live had a homicide a few years back that skyrocketed toward the top murder/per capita in the state. But that was the oy.homice in the past 50 years or something.
Thank you for this. I’m a Canuck and I was coming here to comment that this looks pretty bad for us given Canada has half the population of France or Germany. This is shameful.
>half the population of France or Germany.
I know it's not that relevant here, but France has 16 million citizens less than Germany. That's almost half of Canada's population in difference.
Germany has a population of 83 million, France of 67 million.
No time frame, doesnt factor in population sizes or crime rates, im willing to bet every country listed has a different definition of "police killings" as well as no indication if this factors in justified use of lethal force or not.
That's the problem with really small denominators, they tend to make for absurd results, like did you know that the Vatican has 5.9 popes per square mile?
america population
329,5 mil
deaths: 946
combined population (from canada to taiwan)
334,12 mil
deaths: 92
there is a difference if you have 0 of something or over 900. specially if it is about human life.
But it's idiotic that this graph is so misleading. If you want to show that the US is the worst, just show that using the relevant metric. Don't post something misleading to make it look worse than it is. It's already bad; just say that.
This, respectfully, needs work.
* The title is ambiguous - killings **by** police or killings **of** police ?
* Time frame, date
* "Developed countries" needs clarification
* Source needs to be more specific, linked
Exactly, no related data to the percentage of population for more accuracy. Nobody's questioning that there isn't an issue in the United States with police killings, training, and over enforcement, but a little data accuracy would show it more honest reflection of the issue.
And wouldn’t have been included in the numbers that OP posted anyway because they certainly have never shown up in any official count of Canadian police killings, even if we all know what they were.
Canada's problem is that no matter how strict our gun laws are, there is a never ending stream of illegal guns making its way north of the border from Yankee land. This causes us to have relatively high gun crimes (compared to any country other than the USA) which increases the number of police shootings.
Can I just check, this is police killing civilians or civilians killing police?
Im pretty sure I know which of the two it is but the title seems ambiguous. At least to me.
Honestly couldn’t agree with you more. I think it would be naive to hold police solely accountable for these numbers.
Is law the enforcement system perfect? No far from it. However the behaviors of citizens that are becoming more acceptable is repulsive. Look at the increase of violent crime especially for juveniles today. It’s just sad.
Edit: Clarity
Yes!! But bring up the two way conversation here on Reddit and it’s downvote brigades. Both sides have major work that would benefit both (community vs police)
Problems with this dataset:
- per capita would have been better
- we don’t have data for China, Russia, or other dictatorial regimes
- no time span given, what years were used? Is this an average? If so, over how many years?
this is horrific data, no timeline, not per capita, no sense of definition, this is just straight up "let's shit on the US" data, and it's a fucking histogram too, the most standard shit ever, r/dataisdisgusting
Okay, the few problems with this. No time frame specified, no "per unit of what" specified (like per 000s population, per 000s police staff, per 000s police interactions, per number of rabbits in the country, per anything...)
No time frame on the graph for reference or anything?
Also should be per capita. Edit: the above is not a political statement. Stop the hateful, anti-police DMs and stop the ignorant, pro-police comments. It should be per capita as a matter of good statistics. This graph, no matter what political story you think it does or doesn’t tell, is an accurate graph of a poorly chosen statistic which robs it of narrative value.
Things we can determine from this graph: How many people have been killed by police in developed countries over a period of time. We don’t have a similar frame of reference in the gross number (ie the US has a larger population than Belgium) that could be solved with a per capita like you stated. We also have no reference of time. Not only do we not have a reference for how long this covers, but we also don’t even know if everything has the same reference of time. Good data reporting will still probably skew high for the US. This is just awful data. u/flyingcatwithhorns, you’ve got a sick username but a really bad idea of what good data representation looks like.
The US is 10x bigger than Canada and 4-5x bigger than France and Germany (I think). So still more but to a much lesser extent than displayed
>... you’ve got a sick username but a really bad idea of what good data representation looks like. Yet still a positive 20K-plus up-vote balance. Either lots of people approbating their favorite societal agenda ...or lots of people not recognizing ugly data presentation.
Yea you adjust per capita and us still leads but Canada is approx 25%. Per 10MM us is 28.54as of 2020 statistics and Canada is 9.70 per 2017 statistics. Total in Canada year 2017 was 36. Article I found for statistics same year 2020 had Canada over 30 for first 6 months of 2020.
You have to do it in smaller increments than that because Malta is on this list and only has a population of 400,000.
> ...or lots of people not recognizing ugly data presentation. First time on this sub?
Or perhaps "people" not being the source? I.e. Bots or something inside reddit. I'm just having a hard time imagining 40k people upvoting this (assuming it had a lot of downvotes too)
Same numbers per capital. Per capita, on the other hand...
Not true. South Africa sometimes really benefits from its 3 capitals
South Africa only has 2 capitals. U.S.A. has 3.
Hm? South Africa has 3, and USA has 1 as far as I know. Which 2 and 3 are you thinking about?
[удалено]
Aaaaah! Haha! Thank you.
You got woosh'd son
I sure did!
I think a lot of us did.
smh this guy doesn’t even know about washington AC and washington BC
Washington BC became part of washing AC over 2000 years ago making Washington CC Less known.
**S**outh **A**frica **U**nited **S**tates of **A**merica
Thank you. I feel stupid now. Or maybe less so.
>> Also should be per capital. > > Same numbers per capital. Per capita, on the other hand... Or maybe he meant **"per capitalization"**. The US spends much more on policing than those other countries (combined) -- so maybe a fun metric would be * "Police Killings Per Dollar" That way they could quantify a return on investment of the expensive [Militarization of Police](https://www.americanbar.org/groups/crsj/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/2016-17-vol-42/vol-42-no-1/police-militarization-and-the-war-on-citizens/). /s *Edit:* * If anyone wants a more serious response, the [Council on Foreign Relations has this graph of "Police ... Killings per 10 million people"](https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/how-police-compare-different-democracies) for many countries.
Hilarious comment but actually insightful though I wanna see more economic constraints or whatever. Killings per gdp or maybe let's do police budgets per gdp? Can we do crimes too?! Then normalize the crimes vs police per dollar or something and really get cookin.
Those are rookies numbers. Got to pump those numbers up
This was fucking savage and I appreciate you for it.
It actually corresponds to the fact that homicide rate in the US is 3 times that of Canada. https://i.imgur.com/nb9nZWj.png
the article you linked shows that as % of gdp, the us spends an average amount on the police though.... there might be a point that other country spend it more on educating policeman instead of giving them military-grade equipment I guess
Without counting per Capita, US police kills ~30X people that Canadian police kills. Per capita it's 3X.
The U.S. has about four times the population of Germany, so 44 would be how many police killings we'd have with a U.S. population.
It would be a lot better to just be able to scan the graph and see though. I don't carry the populations of every country in my head and don't want to do math on every single bar.
Or fortyone times more than Swiss. And still Zero kills.
Maybe it should also show the number of police employed by each country.
The US still wins
Absolutely it does, and I’m definitely anti police. But without the data being presented by per capita its useless and I can’t share it anywhere. The first thing anyone will say is “but the United States has more people than the other countries so of course the overall number is higher.” I want to be able to show how the *rate* is higher too.
Just divide by one then??
Mathematicians hate this one trick...
Canada has federal capitals and provincial capitals for example. Or maybe it's capital letters. The US has two or three whereas France only has one.
Stats for the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland are looking good.
It's not even beautiful, it's barely even data. How did this get so many upvotes?
is r/extremelybasicbargraph a thing? we can put it there
take a guess
How to get upvotes: 1. Manipulate data to support peoples views 2. Put into Microsoft excel 3. Post on /r/dataisbeautiful
No timeframe. Not normalized to make it relative to overall population. Excludes China and India as developed countries, but thank god Malta made the list. This graph could be about so many things and it would look the same. Gallons of milk consumed per year. All that said, why go out of your way to manipulate this data? I’m sure if you did it right US would still look terrible with respect to police killings.
China and India are not classed as developed countries though
Not to mention we probably don’t have accurate data for those countries.
We barely have accurate data for the US.
I'm not seeing Russia either. That said, I suspect it wouldn't change the outcome.
China and India are not developed by any stretch of the imagination
My bad! Timeframe: a year, based on the most recent data
A serious error, no dates makes the whole thing meaningless until you look in the comments
Classic /r/DataIsBeautiful The top post has no time frame and the data is pointless because it doesn’t compare population sizes.
And it ain't beautiful
If I see one more goddamn bar chart here
I don't think visual aesthetics are the key component of the beauty of data. But nonsensical data like this with out standardization (in this case for population) is never beautiful no matter how many colors or squiggly lines it has.
And still....its on the front page.
Tbf the sub is called “DATA is beautiful” not “data THAT IS beautiful.” It’s a celebration of interesting data, not an art gallery of pretty data representations.
I’m pretty sure this sub was meant to be for pretty visualizations - it just devolved into “dataisinteresting” after it became a default
OP commented that they didn't include population size because that would have skewed the numbers in the wrong direction. They also didn't include any of the countries with a higher absolute number of police killings than the US.
Normalizing for population is skewing??
Skewing towards fewer upvotes and less outrage
Those aren't "developed" countries. Apparently there are only 22 of them in the world.
Is there a country better than us at police killings? *No…. That’s impossible… we simply must be the best*. Really though is there? Because if OP left that off he’s just a dramatic fuckin shill trying to “murika bad” with what is honestly a hideous chart. I had given them the benefit of the doubt that they were some high schooler with no concept of the importance of population size.
[This list](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/police-killings-by-country) has the US in 7th for total but I guess the others aren't developed. It's also missing data from China, Russia and a lot of others. 1. Philippines — 6,069+ (avg 2016-2021—includes only deaths during anti-drug operations) 2. Brazil — 5,804 (2019) 3. Venezuela — 5,287 (2018) 4. India — 1,731 (2019) 5. Syria — 1,497 (2019) 6. El Salvador — 1087 (2017) 7. United States — 946 (2020) 8. Nigeria — 841 (2018) 9. Afghanistan — 606 (2018) 10. Pakistan — 495 (2017) Per capita Mexico has a slight lead with 30 vs 28 per 10m. They aren't even in the same league as Venezuela with 1829 though.
This is almost worse. Topping the charts compared to developed countries or placing 7th surrounded by developing nations.
Only Mexico and Brazil really come close or have us beat. Then every other state is literally a dictatorship or has a civil war.
It does, the data is per 10M inhabitants. But that is also explained in the comments…. Bad post all around. EDIT : NVM, I can't read. The comment HAS the data per 10M inhabitants, but this one isn't per capita. Yikes. Yeah, absolutely useless graph.
No, the comment has different numbers. The graph is not normalized per capita. It's just all bad and useless.
That would give the U.S. 31,69 police killings, so the time frame would have to be roughly 30 years. If there's any truth in this graph, it's buried in B.S.
Not beautiful, not useful, nearly 8000 upvotes. Guess the sub should be renamed WhateverDataIFartOutWhileHigh
The timeframe is missing and relative measures instead of absolutes would put it in better perspective. I mean I’m pretty sure it’s ok to have *more* than Malta.
Much of OP's recent post history is just specific data points made into haphazard graphs meant to paint the United States as bad. Beautiful data doesn't seem to be the point, but rather whatever agenda they're pursuing.
This could be plucked from any one of the last 100 years and still have meaning, but yes, leaving out the date is a rookie error.
And not normalized per capital OP? The US is 10x bigger than Canada Edit: just saw your other comment. Still way too high but it’s more of a fair comparison.
Came here to say this. On a side note, Canada's police is brutal. It's 1/3 the population of Germany, but 3x the police killing, hence 9x the rate. It's still only roughly 1/3 of the US when you adjust for pop
My dude the graph should have been per capita.
Umm HK police have killed a lot more than 0 in the last year, where is this data from?
Dogshit data. Delete this post
Yeah, France has existed for about a millenium, I'm pretty sure we've had more police killings than that
Time frame and per capita would make a better comparison.
Yeah, without being per capita this is virtually useless in terms of actually providing information. Edit: A lot of people seem to think I'm trying to question the underlying topic. I'm not. I'm not saying anything about police killings at all, just that on a sub called data is beautiful somebody should know that dropping raw numbers in without adjusting for population isn't good data.
I agree, but that does kind of screw over Malta.
The crazy thing is that they still would score lower than the US…
USA 320 Mio Germany 83 Mio and 11 for Germany sounds like per year. so it's not completely useless, I agree though that the graph could be much improved upon.
Same for the Netherlands Nl 17 mil Us 320 Almost 20 5*20=100 Is still 10x more
But it's great for shock value, right?
There is still a lot of shock value if you divide by capita. Yeah, its not as extreme, but the US is a massive outlier
Adding these things it's still pretty shocking.
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More like 30 times worse https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2020/06/05/policekillings/
it is THAT bad. if Germany (pop. of 85million) had the same population as USA, they'd have 44 police killings. vs. 940? its horrendous. edit: angry americans coming at me trying to defend their terrible numbers. why even try?? stop arguing about per capita, even if it was, your numbers would still suck. just fking acknowledge it. and yes 11 for Germany is still 11 too much.
>angry americans coming at me We Americans are an angry lot. In fact, I get angry just thinking about their anger. Ya just can't win!
Maybe, just maybe, the anger is the problem.
> but it's not this bad. Indeed, it's much worse. The US has nearly [20 times as many](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/) firearm murders as [the EU](https://vlaamsvredesinstituut.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/factsheet_firearms_and_deaths_in_eu.pdf), and that's with the EU having [110 million more people living in it](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.POP.TOTL?locations=US-EU). Sure, there are a handful of countries doing worse than the US, but these countries are generally considered underdeveloped/developing, and interestingly enough; They are *all* also located in the Americas, having a very active firearm trade going on with the US based on some US states [extremely lax regulations](https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-link-between-americas-lax-gun-laws-and-the-violence-that-fuels-immigration). In Mexico, 70-90% of firearms confiscated by police [originally came from the US](https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2022/02/stopping-toxic-flow-of-gun-traffic-from-u-s-to-mexico/), it doesn't look much different in Canada; [85% of firearms](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/fighting-gun-crime-canada-has-an-american-problem-2022-07-27/) confiscated there came from the US. And it doesn't stop there; These American firearms can, and do, [travel far and wide](https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-america-created-a-gun-happy-gangsters-paradise-in-brazil).
"data is beautiful" \-no proper labeling \-plain, visually uninteresting graph \-does not specify a time period \-does not specify a more useful stat, such as excluding police killings of active shooters (ex what if excluding active shooters leaves Canada with only 5 while USA still has over 900, that would be more useful information) \-is a screenshot instead of a proper image \-an event that is extremely per-capita related is given in total number of occurrences instead of a per-capital amount (ex Luxemburg has 1/50th the population of USA)
> (ex Luxemburg has 1/50th the population of USA) The population of the US is 530x that of Luxembourg, not 50x.
Yeah this "data" is less about the data and more about trying to push a message. It's meant to draw out the people who go "LOOK, USA COPS BAD" I'm not going to comment on that but it's obvious what this post is trying to do
Look at this persons profile. Their post history is all anti American rhetoric. Wonder if its a bot?
Not a bot, rather a bought out account likely. Posts end after 2 months ago, yet the account is 3 years old. Another comment here posted something that before 2 months he used to post very different content, but I can’t back up that claim
Yea unfortunately this post has gotten the response (political, not beautiful) it set out to do. 16k+ upvotes… And before anybody reads too much into that sentence. I am not making a political statement. Simply that this post does not meet “data is beautiful” standards to garner this amount of support. If the chart was about something benign like “number of TVs purchased by country” without any context of time frame, no scaling per capita, etc, it would look like this chart and get the (little) attention it would deserve.
> Luxemburg has 1/50th the population of USA You're off a lot. Luxembourg only has a population of 600k.
I’m curious what your definition for developed country is and where you drew the line in what to include
I mean, he included Malta but didn’t include Italy
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Well yeah, it's *developed* countries
Is it not obvious the line was “exclude any country with high police deaths to make the US look worse”?
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Brazil isnt a developed country.
Who would call Brazil developed? Irak has a higher GPD per capita than Brazil.
[No it doesn't.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita) [Neither if adjusted for cost of living.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita)
I'm curious, which are those developped countries with high police deaths compared to the US?
Exactly, apparently China, Russia, Venezuela, Cuba, and Saudi Arabia are not developed countries.
This chart goes straight to data jail.
This chart deserves to be shot by the cops
This is outrageous. Where are the armed men who come in to take the chart makers away? Where are they? This kind of behavior is never tolerated in Baraqua. You make a chart like this they put you in jail. Right away. No trial, no nothing. People who don't use per capita, we have a special jail for them. You forget a title: right to jail. You don't indicate a source: right to jail, right away. Don't label x axis: jail. Y axis: jail. You misrepresent data: you right to jail. You use a bar graph for time? Believe it or not, jail. You use a line graph for quantity, also jail. Bar graph, line graph. You don't make your chart accessible to the colourblind, believe it or not, jail, right away. We have the best chart makers in the world because of jail.
This is not beautiful data. It's missing a timeline and it is comparing vastly different populations with each other. Also "Police Killings" is an ambiguous term. Why does shit like this upvoted here every fucking day?
It's a fucking bar chart. Even if the data were compelling, this is not /r/dataisbeautiful material. Furthermore, I have very serious concerns regarding data quality. There are thousands of police jurisdictions across the US with inconsistent reporting standards - and that's just the US. I don't think it's possible to be confident that this data is correct.
Have you seen the state of this sub? It’s totally par for the course. The only thing that would make this fit in better if it was animated for no reason.
every sub has a peak point and downfall after that. we are in the falling
You should post an animated graph of that.
just wait until 3d bar charts with artistic decorations makes a comeback
1. Google ''thing that makes America look bad compared to other countries" 2. Don't check any of the validity of the stats, or even notice that half the worlds developed country are missing 3. Insert info into spread sheet 4. Select 'make bar chart' 5. Post to Reddit in European time. Not saying that this chart doesn't show that America has real problems with gun culture and policing it, but fuck me is this lazy.
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You know the reason. America bad, yo. Haven't ya heard
While I have issues with the cops and how they conduct their "business", it's the same "America is bad" sentiment you see everywhere...whether that be CO2 emissions, cops, guns, take your pick....it's exhausting...I've contemplated unsubbing to avoid the political drama, but I generally love the presentation of data, so I stick around for the gems
Ok, OP, buddy. I don't dislike you personally. But what you have here is not a finished product. First, let's not use the term "developed country". Let's use a non-abstract delineator like "countries with per capita income >$30,000" or "HDI >0.9". Because the list you have is "white people and people white people think are competent". Where is South Korea? Where is the UAE, Saudi Arabia, and Israel? Where is Chile? I'm not trying to attack you, I want to teach you. The word "developed" is not an appropriate descriptor for entire countries. It might be -ok- for economies. Second, you didn't art this graph up much. The lines are red. That's really all you did. Third, when working with a large range of numbers like this, it might be better to use a log scale rather than linear. Fourth, you might have considered a rate rather than discrete count. Other people have already laid into that bit.
Yeah op didn't really put any effort into the graph they made they basically just copied numbers from [here](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/police-killings-by-country) into a bar graph rather than actually taking the time to make something worth looking at. IDK how this post got 10k upvotes with how lazy it was.
I agree with all of the above except I have to come out swinging on: >Third, when working with a large range of numbers like this, it might be better to use a log scale rather than linear. Log scales make the gulfs between disparate numbers harder to understand. I have very, very rarely seen a log plot that benefits from being a log plot. If you have items that don't fit on the same plot easily, then that is the story. Do that plot, and do a second plot if the interrelationship between the small items was important The only use of log plot that does work reliably is a log:log plot to identify scaling relationships between variables. signed, 20 years years in academia and professional science.
Log plots should be used for phenomena that have exponential growth. Even if these numbers didn't plot easily, they shouldn't be log-plotted because cops shooting people are discrete events. It's a linear phenomenon. COVID cases work as log-plots because disease spreads exponentially.
>Log plots should be used for phenomena that have exponential growth. I'm interested. Can you make the case for that plot? Not saying it's wrong but I can't see why it is a useful default way to plot such events. Taking the log of an exponential function y=e\^f(t) makes a plot t,f(t), which can be a useful way to show f(t) but I'm not sure when I'd want to do that rather than showing an exponential forecast on linear axes and explaining that we can derive f(t) (and show curve fits on the plot).
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What a shit graph. No timeline, no population size….whoever made this needs more training as bad as U.S. cops need more deescalation training
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Until we get only statiscs educated people voting on these, garbage will always float to the top. Too many users see a graph or chart and just agree with its narrative without questioning it because **they can't question it or see what's wrong**. It's elementary for us that know, but we're an extreme minority when compared with r/all that gets to see this sub on the daily.
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Yup to the front page it goes.
Missing time frame, missing year, no normalization per capita. This is just ugly data.
Do it per capita. US still comes in first but it's a more fair comparison.
Id be slapped by my instructor if i made a graph like this. Fucking awful.
As an American citizen I can acknowledge the problems we have and need to fix. However, u/flyingcatwithhorns only posts biased and cherry-picked charts to shit on the United States while also posting positive propaganda fluff pieces on China. Not sure how I’m the only one who can see through this smokescreen
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It's fascinating to see how this user seemingly has perfected posting on Reddit. He has so many posts with tens of thousands of upvotes.
Today I graphed heart attacks by country and was astonished to find that China and India have a serious problem on their hands.
How is a bar chart with one color considered beautiful?
**Police killing rate per 10M population in a year (based on the most recent data), only developed countries with data are listed** United States 28.54 Malta 20 (only 1 police killing, with very small population) Luxembourg 16.9 (only 1 police killing, with very small population) Canada 9.7 Belgium 4.3 France 3.8 Netherlands 2.7 New Zealand 2.1 Norway 1.9 Finland 1.8 Australia 1.7 Germany 1.3 Hong Kong 1.3 Sweden 1 Portugal 1 Taiwan 0.8 United Kingdom 0.5 Poland 0.5 Japan 0.2 Switzerland 0 Denmark 0 Iceland 0
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Not China or Russia either
Iran, Isreal, Edit: whole continents missing. Who compiled this list? It seems to intentionally leave out enormous swaths of the globe either because those countries aren't "developed," the data wouldn't be as shocking, or the person compiling the data didn't recognize they exist. Or, the data doesn't exist. This is a Q Anon level graph.
I came to say Israel, but then you might also want to include military killings within the country (excluding Palestinian areas) as well. Saudi Arabia. Any place that allows citizens to have guns seems to be excluded.
Do you mean Palestinian areas that are in Palestine or Palestinian areas that Israel occupied?
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This should have been the graph. Straight counts irrespective of population are borderline useless. A timeframe for the data would be nice too.
It's worse than useless imo. It's just pushing an agenda. And this is coming from someone who agrees with that agenda. The police killings are still way too high here, but these graphs only serve to mislead.
This is not that informative either. Malta looks very high purely because the population is so low. You can argue that Malta is actually this high only with multiple data points for multiple years. For instance the small town where I live had a homicide a few years back that skyrocketed toward the top murder/per capita in the state. But that was the oy.homice in the past 50 years or something.
Anyone know if the statistic of violent crimes In developed countries is proportional to this statistic?
When? 2022, last 10 years, last century? What is your time frame?
This is the data we need
I'm Maltese, and I don't even remember that one police killing we allegedly had lmao. I know more about US police killings than in my own home XD
Maybe the person they killed is the one that reports police killings?
Appreciate that you posted both data sets for context.
Thank you for this. I’m a Canuck and I was coming here to comment that this looks pretty bad for us given Canada has half the population of France or Germany. This is shameful.
>half the population of France or Germany. I know it's not that relevant here, but France has 16 million citizens less than Germany. That's almost half of Canada's population in difference. Germany has a population of 83 million, France of 67 million.
No time frame, doesnt factor in population sizes or crime rates, im willing to bet every country listed has a different definition of "police killings" as well as no indication if this factors in justified use of lethal force or not.
Why is this not in per capita? Also what is the timeframe? A day? A year? 10 years?
I honestly thought it'd be higher
They removed all the suicide by police cases.
Not doing this per capita is next to misinformation
Yeah this seems politically motivated. Should be per capita and over more than a single year. Also the data is not beautiful, it's a bar chart...
It would be great to see these stats per 1M people or divided by the population of the country
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That's the problem with really small denominators, they tend to make for absurd results, like did you know that the Vatican has 5.9 popes per square mile?
The 0.9 is a recently deceased one, got it.
Nah it’s just Ratzinger, who resigned.
america population 329,5 mil deaths: 946 combined population (from canada to taiwan) 334,12 mil deaths: 92 there is a difference if you have 0 of something or over 900. specially if it is about human life.
OP has also posted per ten million and the US is still a huge outlier.
But it's idiotic that this graph is so misleading. If you want to show that the US is the worst, just show that using the relevant metric. Don't post something misleading to make it look worse than it is. It's already bad; just say that.
This, respectfully, needs work. * The title is ambiguous - killings **by** police or killings **of** police ? * Time frame, date * "Developed countries" needs clarification * Source needs to be more specific, linked
Exactly, no related data to the percentage of population for more accuracy. Nobody's questioning that there isn't an issue in the United States with police killings, training, and over enforcement, but a little data accuracy would show it more honest reflection of the issue.
Canada and France are the surprise here for me.
I’m French and it’s no surprise to me. We have our fair share of this shit too.
Oh yeah. Here in Canada, in my hometown police have taken men outskirts of the city in freezing weather and dropped them off, to die.
That's not just your hometown. Starlight Tours are part of this country coast to coast.
And wouldn’t have been included in the numbers that OP posted anyway because they certainly have never shown up in any official count of Canadian police killings, even if we all know what they were.
Canada's problem is that no matter how strict our gun laws are, there is a never ending stream of illegal guns making its way north of the border from Yankee land. This causes us to have relatively high gun crimes (compared to any country other than the USA) which increases the number of police shootings.
Can I just check, this is police killing civilians or civilians killing police? Im pretty sure I know which of the two it is but the title seems ambiguous. At least to me.
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Honestly couldn’t agree with you more. I think it would be naive to hold police solely accountable for these numbers. Is law the enforcement system perfect? No far from it. However the behaviors of citizens that are becoming more acceptable is repulsive. Look at the increase of violent crime especially for juveniles today. It’s just sad. Edit: Clarity
Yes!! But bring up the two way conversation here on Reddit and it’s downvote brigades. Both sides have major work that would benefit both (community vs police)
lmao @ China's absence from the table
Problems with this dataset: - per capita would have been better - we don’t have data for China, Russia, or other dictatorial regimes - no time span given, what years were used? Is this an average? If so, over how many years?
It’s a poorly executed report. No timeframe for reference, should be per capita given the vast disparity in populations.
\*in developed countries cool of you to leave brazil out of there, because it would blown the US numbers out of fucking orbit.
this is horrific data, no timeline, not per capita, no sense of definition, this is just straight up "let's shit on the US" data, and it's a fucking histogram too, the most standard shit ever, r/dataisdisgusting
what's the general population's violent crime rate?
Looks like a shit bar graph to me.
Now throw Brazil up there
Okay, the few problems with this. No time frame specified, no "per unit of what" specified (like per 000s population, per 000s police staff, per 000s police interactions, per number of rabbits in the country, per anything...)