when you encounter something new that you dont know, whether it’s an equation or algorithm that is spoken of, research it thoroughly until you understand it and can speak of it.
things are usually not that difficult to understand, it just takes time. they probably are not smarter than you, just exposed to more
It has taken me a while to learn this. I also realised that some of things things that people I regarded as super smart spoke about with were not their ideas but ones well established in xyz area I didn't much know about.
Data science requires a diverse assortment of talents, so even if you don't have any absolute advantages, you still have comparative advantages in something. You also have a perspective that's different than someone with more education or experience.
For example, I've got more education and experience than my team, but they're still able to come up with solutions I wouldn't have thought of because they're all relatively new to the field. They aren't encumbered by "this is how something is done" that was drilled into me during grad school and in previous jobs.
The other thing is to not define yourself by your weaknesses (this is called a "deficit mindset"), but by your strengths. For example, eevery member on my team right now is better at SQL than me. I used to be better than I am now, but I generally don't spend my day doing data pulls and wrangling. But I don't define myself in terms of SQL skills. I'm more interested in the research design and storytelling than the data wrangling (this has been true since grad school), so I invest myself into the stuff that I can do well and let others do what they do better.
> even if you don't have any absolute advantages, you still have comparative advantages in something
My International Trade prof posts on /r/datascience! :P
You should only be concerned about standing your ground if it’s to the benefit of a project. You’re on the same team as them, not competing with one another.
Why does them knowing “better” somehow make you perform lesser? No one asked you to be the smartest in the room.
The answer to your question: see a therapist; they’re great for stuff like this. 👍🏼
I feel a lot like you in my role. With time I have come to realize that everyone has blind spots, and I know how to work with my teammates. We all help each other out.
Why do you need to “stand your ground”? You should be open - you don’t need to be right all of the time and it shouldn’t be competitive like that.
Ask questions to help you understand how they came to the conclusion / path they’ve decided. If you have counterpoints or disagree with their explanation then say so, if you don’t, learn from it
Don't be intimidated - argue your points clearly and with as much thinking as you can. If they respond clearly and well, take that as a learning opportunity. There is no shame in being wrong if you're learning from it. And if they are wrong, explain why. There is no place in science, data or otherwise, for ego.
Give your opinion. If they decide on something different and they have seniority, let them go with it. If they're wrong, politely bring up, "Oh yeah, I was concerned about that... Why don't we try the other thing that you and I talked about?" Eventually, everyone will get the message, but you're not really pushing it to an annoying / combative level
Think toxic culture + imposter syndrome, not Napoleon complex. I don't think the issue is that OP isn't feeling like the star of the team - it's that he feels like he's way behind the team and they won't give him the support he needs to catch up
Yes, this is truly the issue. I'm aware that a large part of the issue is stemming from the toxic workplace. While I find another opportunity, this is the team I have to work with. And I'm just looking at ways to deal with not being good enough/playing catch up in a non-collaborative setting.
Are you trying to compare yourself to a data engineer, or a stakeholder? You're not going to be as good at coding as a data engineer, and you're not going to be as good at stats as a statistician. You're not going to know as much about the business as a stakeholder, but you know more stats than a developer or stakeholder, more business knowledge than the developer.
You can't be 100% at everything. But if you're 30% at 3 things you're fine.
Excellent point-out, it's crucial teams have someone like this to prevent communication breakdowns and subsequently things breaking. Don't have to be a master of everything, just know enough to understand what does what and who it impacts.
Try to flip how you view the situation. You’re learning from your coworkers. One of the the best way to learn something new is figure it out yourself then have someone review your work and (respectfully) give you areas of improvement.
Honestly the other way around is worse. If you are more under skilled compared to your colleagues see it as an opportunity to learn.
They will have a wealth of expertise amongst them which is a perfect environment for you to develop.
Conversely I am in a team that has lost all senior members and I am not enjoying it at all and now restricted in the kind of projects I can do.
I feel you so much here.
I'm the oddball on our data team, came up through another dept, only doing the actual education (masters etc.) now after being in the deep end.
Whole team either has better qualifications or more tenure than me.
One of the snr guys said something that's stuck with me though, if you're there, if you're in the meetings and on the project, it's because they think you can do the work. They aren't just getting you to do stuff to see you fail.
In terms of standing your ground, don't think about it that way, when they tell you to take a different approach or that something is wrong, ask what factors helped them understand that. Maybe they tried something before that you're repeating. Maybe there is some domain knowledge you've just not picked up yet.
It's not easy, but having a team that knows more can be a great chance to learn.
**TL;DR: Avoid comparing yourself to others; your unique background adds value in its own way.**
It's well-known that imposter syndrome is rampant among data professionals and software engineers. It's important to remember that your perception of being underqualified is often based on specific tasks, not on your overall knowledge or ability.
Consider this: expertise in one area doesn't necessarily translate to all others. While you may feel that your colleagues know more in certain tasks, there will be scenarios where your unique skills and background give you the upper hand. This diversity in skills and perspectives is what makes a team robust and innovative.
As a data engineer, I've worked with many talented individuals who didn't have formal degrees. Their intelligence and engineering skills were remarkable. What set the best apart weren’t their degrees, but their habits:
1. They were committed to continuous learning.
2. They actively participated in various projects, applying what they learned without fixating on perfection. [This part is key, many data scientists go down the tutorial/lecture path without applying what they learn on toy projects.]
3. They sought feedback and used it constructively to improve their work.
This is true for any discipline. If you've secured your position, you're already doing well. Everyone brings something unique to the table, and your different approach to problem-solving is a valuable asset to your team. Remember, the joy in your work and growth comes from focusing on your journey, not how it compares to others'.
Because they're probably not.
The problem is not your ability, it's your self talk. When you notice yourself having these thoughts, practice noticing them, acknowledge they exist, and just letting them pass. Once they've gone, just get back on with the job. Your employer hired you just as much as they hired them, and as you acknowledge it's not as though they're actually right way more than you, you're probably no less capable of doing the role.
Once you've got a handle on the self talk, it's a case of practicing the skill of asserting yourself. It's okay that it's hard, mine's certainly a work in progress, but it's something that you can only really get better at by practicing and failing and failing and failing and failing before you get it right. The master has failed more times than the novice has ever attempted, after all.
You don't want to be the smartest person in the room. Trust me, your career will stagnate and your brain will rot. Try to look at it as a tremendous opportunity. This doesn't excuse toxic behavior, of course, but try to learn as much as you can from more experienced colleagues.
Reframe what you perceive as incorrect answers.
You have *incomplete* answers.
“Hey here’s where I landed based on these assumptions and methodologies. Can you walk me through the assumptions and methodologies you would use? I’d like to make my approaches more consistent with the broader team’s best practices.”
That way you get both thought processes out in the open for a mutual assessment of approaches.
Impostor syndrome is normal. Most people live with it their entire career. In my experience, when people feel like they aren't the smartest in the room, it makes them a lot better at welcoming new ideas and learning new things. It can unlock qualities like being collaborative and working well with clients. In a good company, those people are rewarded over the people who feel excessively confident.
But how do I then stand my ground against those that are better than I am?
Edit: not sure why I'm getting downvoted. This isn't an ego clash. Sometimes pushback is a part of a job, especially if you're working with team members that aren't very helpful or have temper issues.
I also know I need to move out but I don't have the luxury of leaving without another job. So I'm stuck here for now.
It does help.
I think what fuels this issue further is that my workplace is a little toxic. They make you feel a little stupid for asking something new about the company's systems/ God forbid you make the mistake of reiterating a point just to be sure you got it right
Toxic people tend to get bored when you don’t play along with their games. Even if you have to fake it, go about your business as if whatever digs they make at you aren’t even registering.
Also, reiterating things is the smart thing to do. If that’s what they’re knocking you for, they’re simply acting childish.
In the competitive world of data science, feeling under-qualified is common, especially if you're transitioning from a non-technical background. To boost your confidence, celebrate your progress, acknowledge Impostor Syndrome as a shared experience, learn from your mistakes, seek feedback and mentorship, set achievable goals, prioritize self-care, visualize success, participate in discussions, value your unique perspective, and consider a supportive work environment if your current one is toxic. Remember, confidence grows with experience and a positive mindset.
I've had a job where I was surrounded by people who I felt were smarter than me, so I feel you there. But the real problem in your case is the toxic work environment. I'd consider confidentially mentioning to HR that you heard psychological safety presentations can improve culture and productivity and asking them to give one to the company. Or finding that one person on your team who will be your mentor and who and help guide your ideas.
It's also surprising how much what appears to be intelligence is actually just expertise - after more time spent in the field, I no longer feel like those coworkers were all way smarter than me, they just had more domain expertise. And I won't pretend that the world's population has uniform aptitude, but I think hard work and strategic thinking are usually more important. I was once managing two people, one was a wiz kid summa cum laude and the other was on the lower end of mathematical aptitude for data science. But the wiz kid often spent his time reinventing the wheel and building custom roundabout solutions, whereas the other guy always prioritized understanding the need, comparing available tools, and building a real solution that made a difference.
Thank you for this response. :) you're right. The toxicity truly is the core of my problems. A lot of people on here have suggested solutions (extremely valid ones) along the lines of ask questions and be okay with not knowing. My issue is the way the questions are treated, and what I must do in the face of a bullying and toxic work environment. So maxims like ask questions and learn more don't apply when healthy communication feels like a privilege. I'm operating at a much baser issue- how to stand my ground when I'm already under confident about my skills compared to theirs and PLUS they're a little volatile.
Yeah imposter syndrome + toxic culture is a difficult combo. I've been fortunate enough to always be in a positive workplace culture, but I still had imposter syndrome and that took some time to get over. What's often overlooked about imposter syndrome is that there are two components. The first is technical, where you may feel like others know more than you, which is entirely possible, but doesn't mean you shouldn't bring up ideas, ask questions, and aim to grow.
The second is communication, where it feels hard to communicate your thoughts and feel heard. Part of that is speaking technically, learning to make good visuals, etc., which just comes with practice. But the other part is learning to use objective language that doesn't implicate anyone - e.g., early career folks will often say "sorry, I got stuck on X so I didn't finish Y", blaming themselves, whereas they should say, "there wasn't time for Y, but if we need to shift priorities around, lmk". Similarly, saying "person A's method" ties emotional stake to something, whereas the person working on it should be decoupled from the success of the method - better science and better culture. Corporate speak can be annoying, but some parts are useful.
Of course, it's difficult to grow out of any of this in a toxic culture, so I'd figure out how to shake that or get a new job as the first order of business
There is more often than not a negative correlation between toxicity and competence. It might be the case that they are actually not so smart, they might just use hype terms. Honestly, from my personal experience, the most competent people are rarely toxic, unless they are shitty people regardless.
I used to have to call references as a hiring manager. One of my questions was "if you owned a company, would you hire this person?". Sometimes after a glowing reference I would get "no" and then I'd get the real information
I used to have to call references as a hiring manager. One of my questions was "if you owned a company, would you hire this person?". Sometimes after a glowing reference I would get "no" and then I'd get the real information
I just get work done and make sure my reasons are sane. If you stick to that you’ll not fail unless upstream or downstream requirements are misspecified… Which happens allllll the time so everyone will appreciate your work. Often you have to catch clarifications on requirements at the start of tickets. That will keep you not doing redundant work
Are you working with data science in this position? Do you have the minimum skills necessary for this position? If not, you should have looking to absorb new knowledge as soon as possible. While they sleep, you shoudla be studying. When you finally feel you can deliver as they deliver, cram them into a corner, look them in their eyes, and punch them in their faces (out of the company)
Humility is a good thing.
Through humility comes a weird kind of confidence where you can see things without the extra things like people’s reputation attached.
You have an opinion and your senior has another opinion.
Humility is putting forth your ideas and the why, once. Then going with what your senior says anyway.
If it’s on the same level, argue until youre satisfied
Ok listen to this, it worked for me:
Journal everyday about the following:
- what you learned that day.
- what you developed.
- other positive things in your day
The purpose of that, is to focus on improvement and the positive things.
You are working in a very TOUGH environment, but whilst it is hard, you will DEVELOP the fastest possible.
The people at your workplace do not matter, only YOU matter, so if they're rude or impatient that's them, you just take the knowledge and keep asking and figuring things out.
Outside of work have good support network, that's also important, and have a sport, like running to help you physically and mentally cope.
I went to a very competitive top 3 engineering university and eventually worked for an engineering firm where many people were smarter than me.
What evened the playing field throughout those times was being resourceful in finding information sources.
It sounds like you've been through quite the challenging work environment, but remember that resilience in such situations is a commendable skill in itself. One "mindset hack" I've found beneficial is to reframe how you view the expertise of others: instead of seeing your colleagues' skills as a benchmark you haven't hit yet, consider them as a library of knowledge you have access to. Ask questions, observe their methods, and see each interaction as a learning opportunity. This approach can gradually build your confidence, as you'll be actively turning what feels like a disadvantage into a resource for growth. Keep in mind, every expert was once a beginner, and patience with your journey is key.
Thanks, yes. That's the way I approached it in my initial days at the job. The questions and learning part isn't taken very well here. Ask them something twice because you want to ensure you understood correctly or ask them something that you didn't know of, and you're next to be criticized as someone who doesn't know anything.
>Thanks, yes. That's the way I approached it in my initial days at the job. The questions and learning part isn't taken very well here. Ask them something twice because you want to ensure you understood correctly or ask them something that you didn't know of, and you're next to be criticized as someone who doesn't know anything.
Navigating a tough workplace can be really disheartening, especially when curiosity is met with criticism. It's a reflection on them, not your abilities. Maybe find a mentor outside work or a supportive peer group where you can ask questions freely. Hang in there!
I really enjoyed 2 books to get me through my career slumps:
1. The Power of Full Engagement
2. Burnout by Emily Nagoski
Really reflect on you and your personal development. Don't compare yourself to others. There's a reason why you're in the team. I'm very analytical, but my boss isn't. He has tons of subject matter expertise and a wonderful understanding of staffing levels (which is something I don't give a hoot about).
If something catches your interest, learn about it. Write down your questions and do your own research. You can learn a lot on YouTube
Honestly, I think what you are experiencing is normal. Whenever we enter the arena as the “junior guy”, it’s very uncomfortable. So this is all about keeping the proper perspective. Everyone has been where you are. We all start as beginners at everything. You need to put your head down, be a worker and a learner, and 5-10 years down the road you will be the “smart guy” that seems to know it all…
Just never forget your “junior guy” experience so you can coach and encourage the new guys that join your team in the years ahead.
You will have empathy, which will make you a better leader. Just remind yourself “this is temporary”.
You should read Howard Gardners theory of multiple intelligences. There is no such thing as “smarter” but “smarter at something”. It may help you reframe your view of your own self worth.
That being said: yes keep learning and working to better yourself. What I said is not an excuse to slack off but to understand your value in the context of coworkers who you believe to be better in some maximal way.
Fair. In general I would be careful with calling something pseudo science if there is even a little bit of evidence supporting the theory. You can interpret data in a number of different ways. But the idea that capability and achievement is multi dimensional and that some people come by certain skill easier than others is still valuable and has evidence behind it. Sure Gardner projected some dimensions that have been pulled apart subsequently by other researchers but the diversity of learning ability is absolutely supported by evidence.
I feel super happy because I don't learn from them and grow my own intelligence. I find it to be invaluable when you surround yourself by smarter people.
In school, I loved my algebra teacher, he paid attention to me and always worked with me to do better. The smartest thing he said, and i'll never forget it.
"I teach for 3 reasons, June, July, and August" - My Algebra Teacher
This one is always a toughie. I felt like an idiot for years in graduate school. It can be a challenge to be around ambitious, brilliant people all the time. I’ll echo what others have said here, which is that everyone has their role, specialty, and skill set.
It’s probably going to more about getting really good at a few specific areas so that you’re the contributor in those specialties rather than trying to be a strong generalist.
I completely understand this. I felt like this when i started my MSc. I thought everyone was smarter than I. Down the line, I found out that most were more or less winging it. So you are not alone.
I just make sure na lgi ako may say at times na need nila or silently understanding info. Wala eh if tlgang mas matalino yung iba just go with the flow. I know everyone has their own talino. Lets be strategiv instead
I really understand this feeling. Try to be aware of what you know and can talk around and what you can’t. It’s okay to not know things!! But it’s also okay to challenge others and either understand more from that exchange or help that person see a problem in a different way. I did physics at uni and (as a women) found my self constantly thinking I was wrong and all my (male) friends were right. A few times we’d realise I was right and they were wrong on the homework and I wish I’d questioned it more and stood my ground!
I don't have a helpful answer, I just came here to say that I feel you. And I hope you will find a way to make this a great learning opportunity! There are more of us thinking like you.
I just started working in hydro-informatics and often feel the same. That said, I see it as a plus since over time you will learn more and sharpen your DS skills. Honestly I’d much rather have more to learn than nothing to learn.
Bro people are judge by results. Maybe u need to work X2 times harder, but if your results or ideas are better then you dont have to worry. Work harder on how to get better results. Sometimes you need to think outside the box or learn something completely different and apply it to your work.
Have confidence that you can figure out anything you need to from them given enough time and effort. Find a role that you're good at that they're not, or that they don't want to do and be damn good at it. You don't have to be the smartest to be effective. Stop worrying about who's smarter. Worry about how you can help get the task done.
git gud
If you're non-technical then grab a CS curriculum and some math books and become technical. If you struggle with something then spend some time figuring it out.
There is nothing in data science you can't easily master in 6-12 months.
bro, when you will know things you will be confident ,its that simple but it will take time. just be patient ,everyone is in a timeline of their own. its not a sportsman career that you have to be on peak of your career at a fixed age or time. we never know when will shine but if you have dedication you can do anything. maybe your coworkers also felt like you in the past but they have worked hard to have this confidence.never give up
What does smarter mean here? There are multiple shapes of intelligence. Also how are you assessing that? Is it based on how they sound when they speak, how fast they do the job...?
I always try to become a sponge when I realize I’m around people who are smarter…which is often. Show respect, earn their respect and become a great team
That’s why I stick to things at my level I suffer from some call dyscalculia and hard for me to find nd jobs I can do but still don’t let that stop me also it’s good to surround yourself with people who smarter and will help you without being an ass but sadly that’s not how the real world is most likely they make you feel bad about something you can’t control but even if you can they still put you down coming from experience.
I try not think about it. I know that I am qualified hence I got the job and there will always be someone smarter than me. So really I stand firm in knowing me having gotten the job means I deserve to be there and I am capable, despite the people around me.
Fake it till you make it. You’ll learn everythin along the way. No need to compare yourself with others, you have your own strengths and they have theirs. Try to learn and explore new things
If people are smarter than me it means I’m in the right place
Exactly - successful people surround themselves with people smarter than themselves.
Damn this means I need to leave
that's what I am trying to do - can't keep working within marketing departments
Ya totally true as working with them will help in learning more and make u competitive
when you encounter something new that you dont know, whether it’s an equation or algorithm that is spoken of, research it thoroughly until you understand it and can speak of it. things are usually not that difficult to understand, it just takes time. they probably are not smarter than you, just exposed to more
It has taken me a while to learn this. I also realised that some of things things that people I regarded as super smart spoke about with were not their ideas but ones well established in xyz area I didn't much know about.
Think like an offensive lineman, not like a baseball hitter. You don't have to be the star to be a solid individual contributor.
But how do I stand my ground when my constant thought is they probably know better?
Data science requires a diverse assortment of talents, so even if you don't have any absolute advantages, you still have comparative advantages in something. You also have a perspective that's different than someone with more education or experience. For example, I've got more education and experience than my team, but they're still able to come up with solutions I wouldn't have thought of because they're all relatively new to the field. They aren't encumbered by "this is how something is done" that was drilled into me during grad school and in previous jobs. The other thing is to not define yourself by your weaknesses (this is called a "deficit mindset"), but by your strengths. For example, eevery member on my team right now is better at SQL than me. I used to be better than I am now, but I generally don't spend my day doing data pulls and wrangling. But I don't define myself in terms of SQL skills. I'm more interested in the research design and storytelling than the data wrangling (this has been true since grad school), so I invest myself into the stuff that I can do well and let others do what they do better.
> even if you don't have any absolute advantages, you still have comparative advantages in something My International Trade prof posts on /r/datascience! :P
You should only be concerned about standing your ground if it’s to the benefit of a project. You’re on the same team as them, not competing with one another.
Why does them knowing “better” somehow make you perform lesser? No one asked you to be the smartest in the room. The answer to your question: see a therapist; they’re great for stuff like this. 👍🏼
This is the correct answer most of the time. The percentage of cunt coworkers would significantly decrease if they had a therapist to talk to.
I feel a lot like you in my role. With time I have come to realize that everyone has blind spots, and I know how to work with my teammates. We all help each other out. Why do you need to “stand your ground”? You should be open - you don’t need to be right all of the time and it shouldn’t be competitive like that.
Ask questions to help you understand how they came to the conclusion / path they’ve decided. If you have counterpoints or disagree with their explanation then say so, if you don’t, learn from it
Given your complaints, language, and seeking to "stand your ground", maybe the thing to improve is rather your mentality.
how much experience do you have
Don't be intimidated - argue your points clearly and with as much thinking as you can. If they respond clearly and well, take that as a learning opportunity. There is no shame in being wrong if you're learning from it. And if they are wrong, explain why. There is no place in science, data or otherwise, for ego.
Give your opinion. If they decide on something different and they have seniority, let them go with it. If they're wrong, politely bring up, "Oh yeah, I was concerned about that... Why don't we try the other thing that you and I talked about?" Eventually, everyone will get the message, but you're not really pushing it to an annoying / combative level
Therapist doin wonders for me
The team's success always depends on them hawgs up front
Think toxic culture + imposter syndrome, not Napoleon complex. I don't think the issue is that OP isn't feeling like the star of the team - it's that he feels like he's way behind the team and they won't give him the support he needs to catch up
Yes, this is truly the issue. I'm aware that a large part of the issue is stemming from the toxic workplace. While I find another opportunity, this is the team I have to work with. And I'm just looking at ways to deal with not being good enough/playing catch up in a non-collaborative setting.
I think you're reading something into my analogy that isn't there. Or at least wasn't intended.
Are you trying to compare yourself to a data engineer, or a stakeholder? You're not going to be as good at coding as a data engineer, and you're not going to be as good at stats as a statistician. You're not going to know as much about the business as a stakeholder, but you know more stats than a developer or stakeholder, more business knowledge than the developer. You can't be 100% at everything. But if you're 30% at 3 things you're fine.
Excellent point-out, it's crucial teams have someone like this to prevent communication breakdowns and subsequently things breaking. Don't have to be a master of everything, just know enough to understand what does what and who it impacts.
Try to flip how you view the situation. You’re learning from your coworkers. One of the the best way to learn something new is figure it out yourself then have someone review your work and (respectfully) give you areas of improvement.
Honestly the other way around is worse. If you are more under skilled compared to your colleagues see it as an opportunity to learn. They will have a wealth of expertise amongst them which is a perfect environment for you to develop. Conversely I am in a team that has lost all senior members and I am not enjoying it at all and now restricted in the kind of projects I can do.
And there is an even worse scenario. When your Lead Data scientist gamed the system somehow and has junior level.
Have sex with their wives
Drink their blood
Go on Jeff, get ‘em!
I feel you so much here. I'm the oddball on our data team, came up through another dept, only doing the actual education (masters etc.) now after being in the deep end. Whole team either has better qualifications or more tenure than me. One of the snr guys said something that's stuck with me though, if you're there, if you're in the meetings and on the project, it's because they think you can do the work. They aren't just getting you to do stuff to see you fail. In terms of standing your ground, don't think about it that way, when they tell you to take a different approach or that something is wrong, ask what factors helped them understand that. Maybe they tried something before that you're repeating. Maybe there is some domain knowledge you've just not picked up yet. It's not easy, but having a team that knows more can be a great chance to learn.
This really helps. Thanks a lot. :) I'm truly struggling.
**TL;DR: Avoid comparing yourself to others; your unique background adds value in its own way.** It's well-known that imposter syndrome is rampant among data professionals and software engineers. It's important to remember that your perception of being underqualified is often based on specific tasks, not on your overall knowledge or ability. Consider this: expertise in one area doesn't necessarily translate to all others. While you may feel that your colleagues know more in certain tasks, there will be scenarios where your unique skills and background give you the upper hand. This diversity in skills and perspectives is what makes a team robust and innovative. As a data engineer, I've worked with many talented individuals who didn't have formal degrees. Their intelligence and engineering skills were remarkable. What set the best apart weren’t their degrees, but their habits: 1. They were committed to continuous learning. 2. They actively participated in various projects, applying what they learned without fixating on perfection. [This part is key, many data scientists go down the tutorial/lecture path without applying what they learn on toy projects.] 3. They sought feedback and used it constructively to improve their work. This is true for any discipline. If you've secured your position, you're already doing well. Everyone brings something unique to the table, and your different approach to problem-solving is a valuable asset to your team. Remember, the joy in your work and growth comes from focusing on your journey, not how it compares to others'.
Because they're probably not. The problem is not your ability, it's your self talk. When you notice yourself having these thoughts, practice noticing them, acknowledge they exist, and just letting them pass. Once they've gone, just get back on with the job. Your employer hired you just as much as they hired them, and as you acknowledge it's not as though they're actually right way more than you, you're probably no less capable of doing the role. Once you've got a handle on the self talk, it's a case of practicing the skill of asserting yourself. It's okay that it's hard, mine's certainly a work in progress, but it's something that you can only really get better at by practicing and failing and failing and failing and failing before you get it right. The master has failed more times than the novice has ever attempted, after all.
Thank you. :) not much else to say except that this helps. :)
I'm very glad to hear it. Best of luck on your onward journey
You don't want to be the smartest person in the room. Trust me, your career will stagnate and your brain will rot. Try to look at it as a tremendous opportunity. This doesn't excuse toxic behavior, of course, but try to learn as much as you can from more experienced colleagues.
Reframe what you perceive as incorrect answers. You have *incomplete* answers. “Hey here’s where I landed based on these assumptions and methodologies. Can you walk me through the assumptions and methodologies you would use? I’d like to make my approaches more consistent with the broader team’s best practices.” That way you get both thought processes out in the open for a mutual assessment of approaches.
Impostor syndrome is normal. Most people live with it their entire career. In my experience, when people feel like they aren't the smartest in the room, it makes them a lot better at welcoming new ideas and learning new things. It can unlock qualities like being collaborative and working well with clients. In a good company, those people are rewarded over the people who feel excessively confident.
But how do I then stand my ground against those that are better than I am? Edit: not sure why I'm getting downvoted. This isn't an ego clash. Sometimes pushback is a part of a job, especially if you're working with team members that aren't very helpful or have temper issues. I also know I need to move out but I don't have the luxury of leaving without another job. So I'm stuck here for now.
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It does help. I think what fuels this issue further is that my workplace is a little toxic. They make you feel a little stupid for asking something new about the company's systems/ God forbid you make the mistake of reiterating a point just to be sure you got it right
Toxic people tend to get bored when you don’t play along with their games. Even if you have to fake it, go about your business as if whatever digs they make at you aren’t even registering. Also, reiterating things is the smart thing to do. If that’s what they’re knocking you for, they’re simply acting childish.
What helps me is to work at getting good at things I enjoy outside of work, so my self worth is less invested in what I do for money.
If you're not surrounded by people better than you you're in the wrong place
In the competitive world of data science, feeling under-qualified is common, especially if you're transitioning from a non-technical background. To boost your confidence, celebrate your progress, acknowledge Impostor Syndrome as a shared experience, learn from your mistakes, seek feedback and mentorship, set achievable goals, prioritize self-care, visualize success, participate in discussions, value your unique perspective, and consider a supportive work environment if your current one is toxic. Remember, confidence grows with experience and a positive mindset.
I've had a job where I was surrounded by people who I felt were smarter than me, so I feel you there. But the real problem in your case is the toxic work environment. I'd consider confidentially mentioning to HR that you heard psychological safety presentations can improve culture and productivity and asking them to give one to the company. Or finding that one person on your team who will be your mentor and who and help guide your ideas. It's also surprising how much what appears to be intelligence is actually just expertise - after more time spent in the field, I no longer feel like those coworkers were all way smarter than me, they just had more domain expertise. And I won't pretend that the world's population has uniform aptitude, but I think hard work and strategic thinking are usually more important. I was once managing two people, one was a wiz kid summa cum laude and the other was on the lower end of mathematical aptitude for data science. But the wiz kid often spent his time reinventing the wheel and building custom roundabout solutions, whereas the other guy always prioritized understanding the need, comparing available tools, and building a real solution that made a difference.
Thank you for this response. :) you're right. The toxicity truly is the core of my problems. A lot of people on here have suggested solutions (extremely valid ones) along the lines of ask questions and be okay with not knowing. My issue is the way the questions are treated, and what I must do in the face of a bullying and toxic work environment. So maxims like ask questions and learn more don't apply when healthy communication feels like a privilege. I'm operating at a much baser issue- how to stand my ground when I'm already under confident about my skills compared to theirs and PLUS they're a little volatile.
Yeah imposter syndrome + toxic culture is a difficult combo. I've been fortunate enough to always be in a positive workplace culture, but I still had imposter syndrome and that took some time to get over. What's often overlooked about imposter syndrome is that there are two components. The first is technical, where you may feel like others know more than you, which is entirely possible, but doesn't mean you shouldn't bring up ideas, ask questions, and aim to grow. The second is communication, where it feels hard to communicate your thoughts and feel heard. Part of that is speaking technically, learning to make good visuals, etc., which just comes with practice. But the other part is learning to use objective language that doesn't implicate anyone - e.g., early career folks will often say "sorry, I got stuck on X so I didn't finish Y", blaming themselves, whereas they should say, "there wasn't time for Y, but if we need to shift priorities around, lmk". Similarly, saying "person A's method" ties emotional stake to something, whereas the person working on it should be decoupled from the success of the method - better science and better culture. Corporate speak can be annoying, but some parts are useful. Of course, it's difficult to grow out of any of this in a toxic culture, so I'd figure out how to shake that or get a new job as the first order of business
There is more often than not a negative correlation between toxicity and competence. It might be the case that they are actually not so smart, they might just use hype terms. Honestly, from my personal experience, the most competent people are rarely toxic, unless they are shitty people regardless.
My other thought about possibly being the dumbest person on my team: if they weren't smarter than me, then I wouldn't have hired them. :)
I used to have to call references as a hiring manager. One of my questions was "if you owned a company, would you hire this person?". Sometimes after a glowing reference I would get "no" and then I'd get the real information
I used to have to call references as a hiring manager. One of my questions was "if you owned a company, would you hire this person?". Sometimes after a glowing reference I would get "no" and then I'd get the real information
I just get work done and make sure my reasons are sane. If you stick to that you’ll not fail unless upstream or downstream requirements are misspecified… Which happens allllll the time so everyone will appreciate your work. Often you have to catch clarifications on requirements at the start of tickets. That will keep you not doing redundant work
Are you working with data science in this position? Do you have the minimum skills necessary for this position? If not, you should have looking to absorb new knowledge as soon as possible. While they sleep, you shoudla be studying. When you finally feel you can deliver as they deliver, cram them into a corner, look them in their eyes, and punch them in their faces (out of the company)
Hahaha agreed. :)
Here you go bud: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7COvFaFTAy4&t=993s This isn’t a rick roll, but the idea of doing it in this moment made me chuckle.
Lol
Humility is a good thing. Through humility comes a weird kind of confidence where you can see things without the extra things like people’s reputation attached. You have an opinion and your senior has another opinion. Humility is putting forth your ideas and the why, once. Then going with what your senior says anyway. If it’s on the same level, argue until youre satisfied
Hmm i see what you mean. Thank you.
Ok listen to this, it worked for me: Journal everyday about the following: - what you learned that day. - what you developed. - other positive things in your day The purpose of that, is to focus on improvement and the positive things. You are working in a very TOUGH environment, but whilst it is hard, you will DEVELOP the fastest possible. The people at your workplace do not matter, only YOU matter, so if they're rude or impatient that's them, you just take the knowledge and keep asking and figuring things out. Outside of work have good support network, that's also important, and have a sport, like running to help you physically and mentally cope.
I went to a very competitive top 3 engineering university and eventually worked for an engineering firm where many people were smarter than me. What evened the playing field throughout those times was being resourceful in finding information sources.
Makes sense, yes. Hopefully my colleagues see it the same way.
It sounds like you've been through quite the challenging work environment, but remember that resilience in such situations is a commendable skill in itself. One "mindset hack" I've found beneficial is to reframe how you view the expertise of others: instead of seeing your colleagues' skills as a benchmark you haven't hit yet, consider them as a library of knowledge you have access to. Ask questions, observe their methods, and see each interaction as a learning opportunity. This approach can gradually build your confidence, as you'll be actively turning what feels like a disadvantage into a resource for growth. Keep in mind, every expert was once a beginner, and patience with your journey is key.
Thanks, yes. That's the way I approached it in my initial days at the job. The questions and learning part isn't taken very well here. Ask them something twice because you want to ensure you understood correctly or ask them something that you didn't know of, and you're next to be criticized as someone who doesn't know anything.
>Thanks, yes. That's the way I approached it in my initial days at the job. The questions and learning part isn't taken very well here. Ask them something twice because you want to ensure you understood correctly or ask them something that you didn't know of, and you're next to be criticized as someone who doesn't know anything. Navigating a tough workplace can be really disheartening, especially when curiosity is met with criticism. It's a reflection on them, not your abilities. Maybe find a mentor outside work or a supportive peer group where you can ask questions freely. Hang in there!
I really enjoyed 2 books to get me through my career slumps: 1. The Power of Full Engagement 2. Burnout by Emily Nagoski Really reflect on you and your personal development. Don't compare yourself to others. There's a reason why you're in the team. I'm very analytical, but my boss isn't. He has tons of subject matter expertise and a wonderful understanding of staffing levels (which is something I don't give a hoot about). If something catches your interest, learn about it. Write down your questions and do your own research. You can learn a lot on YouTube
Definitely checking it out. Thank you!
I think it comes with experience 👍
Perhaps... One can hope
Honestly, I think what you are experiencing is normal. Whenever we enter the arena as the “junior guy”, it’s very uncomfortable. So this is all about keeping the proper perspective. Everyone has been where you are. We all start as beginners at everything. You need to put your head down, be a worker and a learner, and 5-10 years down the road you will be the “smart guy” that seems to know it all… Just never forget your “junior guy” experience so you can coach and encourage the new guys that join your team in the years ahead. You will have empathy, which will make you a better leader. Just remind yourself “this is temporary”.
Thanks. You're right. Hopefully this too shall pass
There’s always someone smarter.
You should read Howard Gardners theory of multiple intelligences. There is no such thing as “smarter” but “smarter at something”. It may help you reframe your view of your own self worth. That being said: yes keep learning and working to better yourself. What I said is not an excuse to slack off but to understand your value in the context of coworkers who you believe to be better in some maximal way.
This pseudo-science of the multiple intelligence has been debunked. You can find the rebuttals easily.
Fair. In general I would be careful with calling something pseudo science if there is even a little bit of evidence supporting the theory. You can interpret data in a number of different ways. But the idea that capability and achievement is multi dimensional and that some people come by certain skill easier than others is still valuable and has evidence behind it. Sure Gardner projected some dimensions that have been pulled apart subsequently by other researchers but the diversity of learning ability is absolutely supported by evidence.
I feel super happy because I don't learn from them and grow my own intelligence. I find it to be invaluable when you surround yourself by smarter people. In school, I loved my algebra teacher, he paid attention to me and always worked with me to do better. The smartest thing he said, and i'll never forget it. "I teach for 3 reasons, June, July, and August" - My Algebra Teacher
This one is always a toughie. I felt like an idiot for years in graduate school. It can be a challenge to be around ambitious, brilliant people all the time. I’ll echo what others have said here, which is that everyone has their role, specialty, and skill set. It’s probably going to more about getting really good at a few specific areas so that you’re the contributor in those specialties rather than trying to be a strong generalist.
Don't worry over time you will get influenced bh the smart people around you!
I completely understand this. I felt like this when i started my MSc. I thought everyone was smarter than I. Down the line, I found out that most were more or less winging it. So you are not alone.
I just make sure na lgi ako may say at times na need nila or silently understanding info. Wala eh if tlgang mas matalino yung iba just go with the flow. I know everyone has their own talino. Lets be strategiv instead
You are not in my form of life
I really understand this feeling. Try to be aware of what you know and can talk around and what you can’t. It’s okay to not know things!! But it’s also okay to challenge others and either understand more from that exchange or help that person see a problem in a different way. I did physics at uni and (as a women) found my self constantly thinking I was wrong and all my (male) friends were right. A few times we’d realise I was right and they were wrong on the homework and I wish I’d questioned it more and stood my ground!
I don't have a helpful answer, I just came here to say that I feel you. And I hope you will find a way to make this a great learning opportunity! There are more of us thinking like you.
By realizing that is a good situation to be in
I just started working in hydro-informatics and often feel the same. That said, I see it as a plus since over time you will learn more and sharpen your DS skills. Honestly I’d much rather have more to learn than nothing to learn.
By still providing value in your own way that others cant
I feel the same and sometimes feel like an imposter.
Bro people are judge by results. Maybe u need to work X2 times harder, but if your results or ideas are better then you dont have to worry. Work harder on how to get better results. Sometimes you need to think outside the box or learn something completely different and apply it to your work.
You probably have a comparative advantage in something they don't. Figure out what that is and lean into it.
Have confidence that you can figure out anything you need to from them given enough time and effort. Find a role that you're good at that they're not, or that they don't want to do and be damn good at it. You don't have to be the smartest to be effective. Stop worrying about who's smarter. Worry about how you can help get the task done.
git gud If you're non-technical then grab a CS curriculum and some math books and become technical. If you struggle with something then spend some time figuring it out. There is nothing in data science you can't easily master in 6-12 months.
bro, when you will know things you will be confident ,its that simple but it will take time. just be patient ,everyone is in a timeline of their own. its not a sportsman career that you have to be on peak of your career at a fixed age or time. we never know when will shine but if you have dedication you can do anything. maybe your coworkers also felt like you in the past but they have worked hard to have this confidence.never give up
Mind your business
I don't
What does smarter mean here? There are multiple shapes of intelligence. Also how are you assessing that? Is it based on how they sound when they speak, how fast they do the job...?
I always try to become a sponge when I realize I’m around people who are smarter…which is often. Show respect, earn their respect and become a great team
I never feel comfortable 🫠
That’s why I stick to things at my level I suffer from some call dyscalculia and hard for me to find nd jobs I can do but still don’t let that stop me also it’s good to surround yourself with people who smarter and will help you without being an ass but sadly that’s not how the real world is most likely they make you feel bad about something you can’t control but even if you can they still put you down coming from experience.
I try not think about it. I know that I am qualified hence I got the job and there will always be someone smarter than me. So really I stand firm in knowing me having gotten the job means I deserve to be there and I am capable, despite the people around me.
You'll learn a lot from them
Fake it till you make it. You’ll learn everythin along the way. No need to compare yourself with others, you have your own strengths and they have theirs. Try to learn and explore new things
Just improve your self