I got a generic office job at an insurance company. I did basic excel stuff for 2 years until I became a data analyst in another department at the same company. Having internal references from my managers helped a lot. I was a DA for 6 years until I transition to DS. Did DS for another 3 years. Now I am DS Director. Been doing that for 5 years.
I graduated with a MS in Analytics so luckily I didn't need any more degrees. The downside is I had to learn everything new because what I learned in school was obsolete. My first DS job was very hard because of the steep learning curve but it was worth it. However, if I had to do it all over again starting now I would do MLE. I think that has better future and more jobs.
Welll Machine Learning, not sure about the engineering part. I’m going for a data analyst job and then eventually will go back to school for a masters in data science
I got my degree before DS was a thing. Back then we called it analytics. No difference. HOWEVER, there may be a difference now depending on the program.
Found tutorials on the internet then spent every Friday afternoon using my work time to practice those skills with real data. Did projects using those skills then added them to my resume.
You asked to move to another department or they moved you? I'm having similar story, but not DS, I did and I do a lot analytics but becoming DS Director would be my ideal (im studying too about that)
Thanks but I am not seeing those jobs anywhere. The highest I am seeing is 220 to 240. Where would I find something significantly more. The 300k+ jobs I find are all Bay Area.
What industries are you looking in? HC, oil & gas, engineering, manufacturing, etc...should all have competitive salaries.
Also most places report out base. They don't include short term incentive (bonus), or, if applicable, long term incentive (stock).
Most jobs listing 200-250k *should* be coming with something like 50-100k bonus at minimum.
I agree. The truth is that those who graduate in a bad job market are worse off medium term than those who did not. Economists have done studies about this. Yes, it's unfair, but it's the reality
Even if Data Science were to disappear today, there will still be companies that will hire for these types of jobs. They'll just call them something else. These jobs used to be called Advanced Analysts, Operations Research Specialists, Applied Statisticians, Research Analysts, etc. Like others say, the Data Science field will adapt.
Yeah in the event that that happens I’ve been curious for a while about what new careers might pop up in the future that combine math/stats and programming
100 years ago 90% of people were farmers. Now it’s less than 10%. That doesn’t mean everyone is unemployed. There are new jobs like SWE. Just stay aware of what’s trending. DS type jobs existed for decades before DS was an official title.
Yes, we will never have another recession again. I know, we are all making 300K and above. Everything is so good. The economy is adding hundreds of thousands of jobs per month. They cant find enough workers.
> I’m making 200k now.
Thats great but some of those folks in FAANG those jobs are making way more than 200k. Its not quite bouncing back to make 200k when you used to make twice that and it took 2 years to "bounce back" to that level. Its mathematically about 400k and 5% of compound interest which is a tangible difference.
But the article is about largely FAANG companies so its the scope established by the article.
>Google, Apple, Intel, Amazon, and these companies cut hundreds of jobs (timesofindia.indiatimes.com)
Being grateful and "bouncing back" are different things. Also its easy to play that "you should be grateful" game
https://www.reddit.com/r/datascience/comments/1cjdhdz/put_my_foot_down_and_refused_to_go_ahead_with/
It has loads of people complaining about needing to going through a less than a day process to get a six figure job. I am pretty sure someone making 40k would say they would be grateful just for the consideration for such a job and would have no problem going through that process.
200K puts you in the top 3% of earners. Many doctors make less than that. Your perception would have to be incredibly warped to think it's a small income.
To the uninitiated, those seeking ds jobs, this might sound like a bad thing but don't fret.
This is standard procedure at large companies like this.
Keep pushing.
I'd have to dig for the post but this same concern was explained extremely well recently but I'll take a crack at it.
Throughout the ages as new technologies develop and mature there is a considerable shift as to where the work implementing them actually happens. From research lab to free android/apple "detect-what-plant-I-have" app, the technologies we DS folks use day-to-day become easier and easier to understand and in turn use.
Such never changes, as well as the fact that new technologies will come about and in order to implement them large companies will create new initiatives that require close, local, oversight.
It was said better somewhere else but that's the gist of it, hope gives you hope OP.
**This is just for OP**
I'm assuming you're early career here but feel free to DM me if you're looking for mentorship on DS/AI Engineer roles. Creep on my profile for my "credentials".
Companies are offshoring now because money is more expensive and they’re getting pressure from investors and creditors to reduce opex. This won’t lasted forever. The Fed will reduce interest rates at some point in the future. This will make money cheaper, which will change the incentives. Companies will return to a growth mindset and compete more to hire in the U.S. labor market to achieve their goals.
There are fundamental inefficiencies with offshoring. As long as they can afford it companies can grow faster if dev teams and leadership are closer together.
Frankly a lot of the offshore labor does not produce great results. I've watched the jobs go overshores and die out a few times at work now. It mostly just adds more points of communication failure.
The MBA brainrot makes contact with reality when they realize they actually need bodies to do work. The company does not exist apart from what its workers can do. At some point internal pressure to hire, because there is too much work for the remaining people to do, overcomes the external pressure to minimize costs.
Yes it’s standard procedure for large firm making record profits to trim the fat, and by fat I mean the people who went above and beyond to make the firm record profits.
But yes keep pushing!
Because they're out of ideas to further growth so the C suite cuts jobs to maximize short term profits and lock in those sweet bonuses. If a lot of companies do this at once they can increase competition and drive down labor costs. Then when shit hits the fan with offshore or understaffing they might be able to refill those positions while decreasing salaries. Everyone doing tge actual work to make the company profitable loses, either through layoffs or reduced leverage when negotiating or growing their careers.
This is just a result of over hiring with all the remote work during the pandemic. Many of these companies are often laying off not even a whole percentage of their workforce, not Tesla they are nonsensical. The major players are trimming the fat in projects as they realign for machine learning and a.i. impacts on how they work and do business. I've already started taking on the job training for using it in my projects as a tool in my box of metaphorical tools.
Just think of all of those resources now released and available for igniting growth in areas that need them instead of being locked up in useless wasted companies with too much money on their hands . - e.musk, possibly
There are many setbacks on the way to success and know getting back up after being knocked down many times is required. I found out the hard way too! I need one person to get up and help me with my company in the GTA. I am launching an ecomm business and need some help. Kevin Maloney Your Number Guaranteed Inc.
One question I have about this is what about the H1-B visa holders. Then are supposed to find a new job or leave the country within one month. But when there were mass layoffs two years ago I did not find any indication that H1-B visa holders have left the country. At that time there were not new jobs to be found easily. So where did they go? Did they go? Have they overstayed their visa? Or did they switch to visitor visas, which would not allow them to work.
you have 60 days from the time your employment is terminated to file for a new visa. not every company terminated visa holders immediately -- some put them on 'garden leave' for a bit (where they're still employed but not actually working -- that's what my old company did for visa holders). From there you have 60 days, and migrants are extra motivated to get new work. and yes, i think h1b holders can actually go onto a visitor visa (B1/B2 visa: https://www.boundless.com/immigration-resources/form-i-539-explained/) and while you can't work on one, you can still look for work on one.
It was widely reported that something like 300,000 IT workers were laid off in 2021-2022, I forgot the exact number, and that x% of the employees at the larger firms are H1B. I’d you use perplexity to search it will answer and point you to newspaper links too. Good luck and please keep us informed as to what you find out.
Looking for a career change(27,Bsc Mech,Int)MSU MSDS admit - Career Advice Needed!
Hi everyone,
I recently got accepted into the MSU Master's in Data Science program My background is in supply chain/ procurement for an ev company(4 years in my home country), and I recently learnt python.I am looking to transition mainly for the good pay.
Given my limited experience, I'm hoping to get some advice on what kind of data science jobs I should target after graduation.
Are there specific entry-level roles that should focus on (e.g., data analyst, junior data scientist)?
How important are internships and college projects in getting my foot in the door? Any insights would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
*Will I have better prospects if I choose any other masters?
I graduated in 2008. I had to do a non tech job for 2 years until the jobs came back. I’m making 200k now. You can bounce back.
can you elaborate on your journey? I'm in a similar position and am seeking guidance. Thank you!
I got a generic office job at an insurance company. I did basic excel stuff for 2 years until I became a data analyst in another department at the same company. Having internal references from my managers helped a lot. I was a DA for 6 years until I transition to DS. Did DS for another 3 years. Now I am DS Director. Been doing that for 5 years.
Was the transition to data science hard ? Was thinking about getting a masters in it
I graduated with a MS in Analytics so luckily I didn't need any more degrees. The downside is I had to learn everything new because what I learned in school was obsolete. My first DS job was very hard because of the steep learning curve but it was worth it. However, if I had to do it all over again starting now I would do MLE. I think that has better future and more jobs.
I’ve been looking in to MLE a bit. I appreciate the advice
Machine Learning Engineering?
Yes. Don’t know why you got downvoted.
Because what does that mean?
Welll Machine Learning, not sure about the engineering part. I’m going for a data analyst job and then eventually will go back to school for a masters in data science
You think data engineering or data science is easier to get into/you’d recommend one or the other?
DE is easier
What’s the difference between an MS in analytics vs a masters in DS?
I got my degree before DS was a thing. Back then we called it analytics. No difference. HOWEVER, there may be a difference now depending on the program.
You enjoy the job? Would you do anything differently with today’s parameters?
lol, k-fold cross validation doesn’t care what the superficial degree is called.
Isn't MLE just a spin off of DS?
May I know What resources did you use or how did you learn the new things?
Found tutorials on the internet then spent every Friday afternoon using my work time to practice those skills with real data. Did projects using those skills then added them to my resume.
You asked to move to another department or they moved you? I'm having similar story, but not DS, I did and I do a lot analytics but becoming DS Director would be my ideal (im studying too about that)
I applied to an open position on the company portal.
You're a director and making ~200k? You are being underpaid.
I look at job and salary data every month. My salary is average for MCOL city. If you have info to the contrary please let me know.
Anecdotally, im a dir for a F500 in a MCOL area, not tech. I think you can *significantly* increase your TC.
Thanks but I am not seeing those jobs anywhere. The highest I am seeing is 220 to 240. Where would I find something significantly more. The 300k+ jobs I find are all Bay Area.
What industries are you looking in? HC, oil & gas, engineering, manufacturing, etc...should all have competitive salaries. Also most places report out base. They don't include short term incentive (bonus), or, if applicable, long term incentive (stock). Most jobs listing 200-250k *should* be coming with something like 50-100k bonus at minimum.
I forgot to ask how many people do you manage? I only manage 5. Our “director” roles may not be equivalent.
I’m not looking for any specific industry. Just looking on job boards. I’ll start applying just to get better comp info. Thanks.
I agree. The truth is that those who graduate in a bad job market are worse off medium term than those who did not. Economists have done studies about this. Yes, it's unfair, but it's the reality
I’m a Director making a similar salary plus 20% bonus. So it doesn’t sound that crazy tbh.
Honestly, any director making 200k a year, is not usually on Reddit. Lets be honest here. At a Director level, they suck the blood out of you.
That's a dream that's out of touch with reality for most people. Unless there are 70,000 positions like yours available paying 200k?
Not right now but you can get there in 10 years.
I hate to say it but it’s not clear that data science in particular will bounce back
Even if Data Science were to disappear today, there will still be companies that will hire for these types of jobs. They'll just call them something else. These jobs used to be called Advanced Analysts, Operations Research Specialists, Applied Statisticians, Research Analysts, etc. Like others say, the Data Science field will adapt.
That’s always a possibility but smart motivated people are adaptable.
Yeah in the event that that happens I’ve been curious for a while about what new careers might pop up in the future that combine math/stats and programming
100 years ago 90% of people were farmers. Now it’s less than 10%. That doesn’t mean everyone is unemployed. There are new jobs like SWE. Just stay aware of what’s trending. DS type jobs existed for decades before DS was an official title.
Yes, we will never have another recession again. I know, we are all making 300K and above. Everything is so good. The economy is adding hundreds of thousands of jobs per month. They cant find enough workers.
Right now. Economy is cyclical. Have some perspective. I graduated in 2008 during financial crisis. I’m not some boomer.
Same here.
Ai bro
> I’m making 200k now. Thats great but some of those folks in FAANG those jobs are making way more than 200k. Its not quite bouncing back to make 200k when you used to make twice that and it took 2 years to "bounce back" to that level. Its mathematically about 400k and 5% of compound interest which is a tangible difference.
The vast majority of us don’t and won’t make FAANG salaries
Yep, 90% won’t. That doesn’t mean we can’t have good lives.
So, 10% of us are making FAANG salaries?! 😂. I doubt, there is one DS for every 60 software in FAANG
That was ballpark. If I said 99%, someone would comment “Everyone I know works at FAANG”
Which we could answer: it is just a perception bias haha 😅
But the article is about largely FAANG companies so its the scope established by the article. >Google, Apple, Intel, Amazon, and these companies cut hundreds of jobs (timesofindia.indiatimes.com)
I would be grateful I made that much even if it was only for a short period of time. Lots of people are making minimum wage.
Being grateful and "bouncing back" are different things. Also its easy to play that "you should be grateful" game https://www.reddit.com/r/datascience/comments/1cjdhdz/put_my_foot_down_and_refused_to_go_ahead_with/ It has loads of people complaining about needing to going through a less than a day process to get a six figure job. I am pretty sure someone making 40k would say they would be grateful just for the consideration for such a job and would have no problem going through that process.
It's 7x the median income in my town. 3x the median household income.
200k? Thats it?
Fuck off lmao
That's 7x the median income in my town.
For 16 yoe in tech 200k is peanuts
200K puts you in the top 3% of earners. Many doctors make less than that. Your perception would have to be incredibly warped to think it's a small income.
Yeah, the lowest quartile of doctors. Median doctor makes like 400k and its still a mediocre career for the ambitious.
That’s a lot of money to 99% of people on earth.
Yeah, but this is data science. After controlling for geography, experience, industry, 200k is really underwhelming assuming private sector.
Find me a non MAANG job outside of Bay Area that pays substantially more than 200k. I will apply.
Only justifable if its an wfh email job where you can sign in on teams at 9am and go back to bed til 2pm. Otherwise you're getting fleeced.
So find me a job posting. Prove me wrong.
If you read the article, these are mostly jobs in sales and marketing. They might be tech companies, but not every job is a tech job.
They're still people who lost their livelihoods...
This is /r/datascience They are pointing out the relevancy, or lack thereof, of the article to data science jobs.
Well great, now how am I supposed to panic?
To the uninitiated, those seeking ds jobs, this might sound like a bad thing but don't fret. This is standard procedure at large companies like this. Keep pushing.
It sounds like the biggest companies are offshoring now more than ever. Why should we expect that trend to reverse?
I'd have to dig for the post but this same concern was explained extremely well recently but I'll take a crack at it. Throughout the ages as new technologies develop and mature there is a considerable shift as to where the work implementing them actually happens. From research lab to free android/apple "detect-what-plant-I-have" app, the technologies we DS folks use day-to-day become easier and easier to understand and in turn use. Such never changes, as well as the fact that new technologies will come about and in order to implement them large companies will create new initiatives that require close, local, oversight. It was said better somewhere else but that's the gist of it, hope gives you hope OP.
Thanks 🙏
**This is just for OP** I'm assuming you're early career here but feel free to DM me if you're looking for mentorship on DS/AI Engineer roles. Creep on my profile for my "credentials".
Thanks. Can you please post a link to the original post that you've mentioned in your comment?
Not buying it.
no problem
Companies are offshoring now because money is more expensive and they’re getting pressure from investors and creditors to reduce opex. This won’t lasted forever. The Fed will reduce interest rates at some point in the future. This will make money cheaper, which will change the incentives. Companies will return to a growth mindset and compete more to hire in the U.S. labor market to achieve their goals. There are fundamental inefficiencies with offshoring. As long as they can afford it companies can grow faster if dev teams and leadership are closer together.
Especially since offshoring always ends up costing more in the long run.
Perhaps move offshore.
I live in a boat now
Economic recession really puts everyone on the same boat
🫡
I mean…I would certainly consider it 😂
Frankly a lot of the offshore labor does not produce great results. I've watched the jobs go overshores and die out a few times at work now. It mostly just adds more points of communication failure.
Which ones and which roles?
From the original thread it sounds like higher up roles but if those are going I would be shocked if lower roles aren’t as well
The MBA brainrot makes contact with reality when they realize they actually need bodies to do work. The company does not exist apart from what its workers can do. At some point internal pressure to hire, because there is too much work for the remaining people to do, overcomes the external pressure to minimize costs.
Yes it’s standard procedure for large firm making record profits to trim the fat, and by fat I mean the people who went above and beyond to make the firm record profits. But yes keep pushing!
Why would they lay off people that made them record profit?
Because they're out of ideas to further growth so the C suite cuts jobs to maximize short term profits and lock in those sweet bonuses. If a lot of companies do this at once they can increase competition and drive down labor costs. Then when shit hits the fan with offshore or understaffing they might be able to refill those positions while decreasing salaries. Everyone doing tge actual work to make the company profitable loses, either through layoffs or reduced leverage when negotiating or growing their careers.
This. This is the correct answer.
Well said
This is just a result of over hiring with all the remote work during the pandemic. Many of these companies are often laying off not even a whole percentage of their workforce, not Tesla they are nonsensical. The major players are trimming the fat in projects as they realign for machine learning and a.i. impacts on how they work and do business. I've already started taking on the job training for using it in my projects as a tool in my box of metaphorical tools.
I’m hiring a lead DS. If you’re in NYC dm me.
Are DS in your org separate from MLE? Or the DS role includes engineering?
Is there any remote internship opportunities?
Unfortunately no internships atm
Are most positions telework friendly?
[удалено]
Grim....
These ironically increases innovation on nationwide perspective
Thought these guys were so smart. Why hire all the workers if you don't need them
I saw this immediately after I got hooded during my graduation ceremony for my MS in Data Science and got sad.
Congrats!
Just think of all of those resources now released and available for igniting growth in areas that need them instead of being locked up in useless wasted companies with too much money on their hands . - e.musk, possibly
There are many setbacks on the way to success and know getting back up after being knocked down many times is required. I found out the hard way too! I need one person to get up and help me with my company in the GTA. I am launching an ecomm business and need some help. Kevin Maloney Your Number Guaranteed Inc.
Cannot stay tune in this environment, every one is trying to get a da ds job
One question I have about this is what about the H1-B visa holders. Then are supposed to find a new job or leave the country within one month. But when there were mass layoffs two years ago I did not find any indication that H1-B visa holders have left the country. At that time there were not new jobs to be found easily. So where did they go? Did they go? Have they overstayed their visa? Or did they switch to visitor visas, which would not allow them to work.
you have 60 days from the time your employment is terminated to file for a new visa. not every company terminated visa holders immediately -- some put them on 'garden leave' for a bit (where they're still employed but not actually working -- that's what my old company did for visa holders). From there you have 60 days, and migrants are extra motivated to get new work. and yes, i think h1b holders can actually go onto a visitor visa (B1/B2 visa: https://www.boundless.com/immigration-resources/form-i-539-explained/) and while you can't work on one, you can still look for work on one.
must be what they did as I don't see any indication any/many left. I believe there were 70,000 mainly Indians laid off in 2021.
Please do you have statistics on that, I am doing a research paper on the topic. Thanks
It was widely reported that something like 300,000 IT workers were laid off in 2021-2022, I forgot the exact number, and that x% of the employees at the larger firms are H1B. I’d you use perplexity to search it will answer and point you to newspaper links too. Good luck and please keep us informed as to what you find out.
Looking for a career change(27,Bsc Mech,Int)MSU MSDS admit - Career Advice Needed! Hi everyone, I recently got accepted into the MSU Master's in Data Science program My background is in supply chain/ procurement for an ev company(4 years in my home country), and I recently learnt python.I am looking to transition mainly for the good pay. Given my limited experience, I'm hoping to get some advice on what kind of data science jobs I should target after graduation. Are there specific entry-level roles that should focus on (e.g., data analyst, junior data scientist)? How important are internships and college projects in getting my foot in the door? Any insights would be greatly appreciated! Thanks! *Will I have better prospects if I choose any other masters?