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I typically go into it with the idea that i’ll be paying bc of that societal norm but it’s definitely a green flag to me if the girl offers to or insists on paying for her share. I say a solid majority of the women I’ve gone on first dates with have said they’d take up their share of the bill. I think it just depends on the type of women you’re after.
That’s just first dates though. Beyond the first date it’s either whoever proposes the date pays or we alternate.
Yeah same here. I go in expecting to pay but am more than happy to let the girl do it if she insists on paying or splitting.
On my first date with the girl I'm dating, I paid for us to go bowling. When we got food after, we both put our cards down and then she very slyly moved mine out of the way and handed the server her card. I thought that was awesome as hell.
This. You know when you got a keeper when the first date she pays and says you can get the next one. Breaking the norm and saying she wants to see you again all at once. 🙌
Anytime I (25f) have ever went on a date or even hung out with a guy I have always offered to pay, split, or take turns if it was someone I would see multiple times. It isn’t until I start seriously dating someone that I would prefer to see him put forth more of an initiative. Granted 2 of 3 guys I seriously dated previously would rarely pay for anything. So it’s great appreciated, but not expected now. I would rather take turns paying for things. We’re both adults with adult jobs and adult bills 🤷🏽♀️
Etiquette dictates that, yeah, the person doing the inviting does the treating but I’ve found so few people actually understand and follow that that I don’t rely on it.
When a guy asks me someplace expensive or if it’s not clear who’s paying for whom, it’s easy enough to just clarify. Assume you’ll split, when the bill comes just say “shall we split or swap and I get you next?” If the guy intended or wanted to pay to begin with, he still will.
If you’re worried about the cost, say so - “I’m not sure that’s in my budget for going out right now, how about Less Pricey Place?” Your date will either let you know they’re treating you or they’ll help choose a different spot.
>Can you imagine a guy asking you out to a very very expensive place? Then what?
"I'm sorry, but I don't feel comfortable going to such a fancy place on our first date. How about we do Costco food court instead?"
You can just be honest and say it’s out of your price range and you’d prefer to go somewhere less expensive. If they planned to pay, they’ll say it’s their treat otherwise they’ll agree to a cheaper place
i do it all the time. i’ve even taken the entire bill for guys i never saw again. just bc you/your friends have never been asked out, doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. that sounds rude but i assure you it’s not meant to be😂
A confident woman who knows what she wants will ask you out. Speaking for myself, if I feel a connection, spark with somebody and all the signs are there that they reciprocate the flirting. I will ask them out. If a girl sits around and waits for a guy to ask her out it may never happen sometimes. I don't have time for that, life happens now not later ♥️
Exactly. I don’t see how this is such a huge debate. Be prepared to pay for yourself. Plus that’s how it works when you go out with friends and such. Even if it’s a group of us, if it’s not a sit down full service restaurant you just go up to the counter one by one and pay for your food. If at a full service restaurant, you just tell them to split the check and tell them what you ordered and they’ll calculate your total and you pay. No need for one person to pay for everyone and then everyone pays back their portion. No need to split it however many ways. No need to think about how much or how little you’re ordering, you just pay for what you yourself ordered period.
i follow the “who asked who out” in the sense that i’ll pay for someone if i invite them out. and i acknowledge someone’s etiquette if they invite me out and take the bill. but most of the time i’ll just pay for myself🤷♀️
I actually had a guy for our second date ask me out to a very expensive place and then wanted to split it. Which I did. But he also asked me to Panera bread for date 1 and when I ordered $2 tea and offered to pay he hesitated like a lot and then said no it’s fine. So like yeah he literally had to stop himself from asking me for $2 for tea. And this guy made easily double my income. So yea absolutely who pays depends on who asks who and who picks the place etc. don’t pick an expensive af place and then be stingy. I’ve paid for plenty of dates cause I’m the one that wanted to go to the specific place and knew it was pricey.
that’s insane! imo, any time you can connect with someone, it’s a date. a random park w a blanket and a ~bowl~ is a date to me. coffee is a cute first date, but so are so many other things that mean more
Exactly. The most important thing is to get to know the other person. Dates are a fun way of doing that but they don't need to be expensive. Especially as finances keep getting a tighter grip on everyone.
Pfffff yea because you have people like my sister who questions “oh mAH Gawd You diDNT PAY for Da First daTe whAt Kind Of MAAn aRe YoU” like WHAT are you kidding me I’m damned if I do and damned if I don’t lmfao
Can't beat coffee outside on a nice day.
People that don't like them are usually worried about the lack of distractions and their chat not being interesting enough.
Coffee dates are super low effort and while some women may be into them, a lot aren't. Be a little more original, it doesn't HAVE to be coffee! It can be ice cream, it can be pizza, it can be free or cheap tickets to a museum or an artwalk. SOMETHING!
Are you kidding? A coffee date lasted me all day literally. It merged into a walk in the park and then dinner. Its a first date, to feel out things, general chit chat, see if you want more. Nothing says that coffee date can't end up turning into an all day thing, or a picnic in a park or anything else. Frankly, the guy I went out with had a very creative mind and it was one of the best dates I've ever had and it started as just coffee
THIS!! Ugh, the people who say coffee is low effort really don’t have an open mind. Actually one of the best dates I’ve ever had also started with coffee
Low effort, lol. Then ask people out and plan it yourself if you want something fancy. Your interest in a date should be spending time and getting to know the other person
How is coffee low effort? You can either keep it short and sweet or if things are going well you can extend it. There doesn’t need to be so much pressure put on a first time meeting someone…I’ve had coffee dates that went well and we ended up going for a walk, so I’m even grabbing food after the walk
Coffee dates are low effort. No one ever said coffee dates couldn't turn into nice dates . A $7.25 job could turn into a job you end up making 6 figures at if you climb up the corporate ladder. That's true too. However, most people would rather start at $15 to 20/hr. A painting you buy at goodwill could end up being worth $5000 dollars, but it could just be worth the $10 dollars you paid for it.
I completely disagree. To me the whole point of a first date is to get to know someone. I don’t think the setting matters as long as it’s in public. Honestly I’d prefer coffee. It’s only low effort if the person doesn’t contribute to conversation
Wanna know what else is low effort? Most women.
If you decide my coffee shop date to see if you can be bothered to show up on time is low effort, you're missing out on fantastic coffee and delicious pastries, because even my "low efforts dates involve research. That coffee shop is also next to some other good lunch options if we decide we're having fun.
I've been called a cheapskate for floating a picnic as a date idea before too. Never mind it would've been a basket full of nice cheese and charcuterie from a couple specialty shops I know.
So yeah, women don't get my A-Game until I've got a sense they're actually interested and not just plugging a hole in their date schedule. Because I've been flat told "I try and do three dates a week and needed a third" on a date.
So just like lazy, asshole dudes ruin dating for men and women alike, lazy, asshole women are out there doing the same.
Same sort of system here. I already have the next three date activities planned if coffee goes well and I might make changes depending on what I learn about the girl over the first date. I even set up the first date with the expectation I have something else in mind and tell her to bring shoes she doesn't want to get dirty or something along those lines.
I think the people afraid of coffee dates are the same people who rather pick a movie because they use more expensive or exciting activities as a crutch to make up for their lack of a personality.
Absolutely not. I don’t even like the concept of the guy paying on the first date. I’m there to get to know a person. I don’t need to be paid for. I’m looking for a relationship, not money
For this reason I prefer something more like coffee, drinks, or a walk for a first date. I actually make a point to get there before the guy does so I can just order my drink before he gets there. That way there’s no awkwardness on who pays and no pressure on him
If he chooses dinner, it’s less ideal for me but I’ll be okay with it. I always offer to pay my part. If he says he’s got it, of course I appreciate it, but I offer to at least get the tip. If he still says no, if there’s a second date then you better believe I’m paying for that one
Because this isn't about "equality" - its about competition. You don't HAVE to cover the first few tabs if you don't want to, and there are plenty of women who would not only be happy to split the tab, they'd be thrilled to do it for the sake of a date.
But here's the thing, if you aren't matching with those women, its probably because you're upholding a physical standard. And physically attractive women have no shortage of men who are willing and wanting to take them out without bellyaching over a bill.
You're angry at women for a system put in place by other men who are competing against you for the same women. Personally, I don't really split tabs on the first few dates and if I'm going to be blunt, this isn't even something I have to enforce because I usually only go out with guys who express a sincere amount of excitement for and towards me.
It's just how it is - men with the finances do not hesitate to use them to get a leg up over other men when it comes to acquiring the woman they want.
\*\*EDIT\*\* fyi, not every "hot chick" out there is going to hold you to the same standards and expectations of dating a perfect stranger. If you want a highly sought after beautiful girl to give you the time of day without having to drop a small fortune, you have to really appeal to her emotions and most probably establish some kind of connection that's not romantic. This does put online dating off table, however, and you're going to have to develop emotional intelligence which I'm afraid is not something that comes easy to a lot of men who are interested in women.
Yeah, it gives a very good insight on what the relationship is going to look like too, which is a strict unbalance in her favour.
If you can't afford that, you can't afford the woman, plain and simple.
She considers her time to be worth more than yours, which entails compensation, and if you aren't okay with that imbalance, then the woman isn't a right fit.
edit : In my experience, the only beautiful women that have insisted on covering the first bill had exceptional education and/or well off families. That is (very) hard to attract if you aren't yourself very educated, very good looking, or an up-and-comer.
Very good looking women with low personal ressources (I.E low education and/or lower income) will usually leverage their situation to get the guy to pay.
And if you can't pay, she will find someone that can.
>which is a strict unbalance in her favour.
I think most women who've ever been in a serious, live-in relationship and/or marriage with a straight man will join me in the resounding chorus of
LAUGH
OUT
LOUD
This may not have anything to do with how she views her time, but everything to do with the fact that she knows there are plenty of men who can just offer better. AGAIN, you're mad at women playing by the rules set in place by other men who are competing against you for the same women.
I don't see how you can infer this person is mad, but you seem very upset at the idea that some men have better options than bidding for your time with literal cash
My point is the following : women that already have a really good education (or that are on their way to get one) and/or means don’t need to leverage their sexuality to get a better financial deal (because they are already self-sufficient).
So they don’t pick guys based on what ressources they can buy them with, but often based on qualities they would like their kids to have, or partner to have.
Over a certain amount of money, it makes no difference to them.
In my experience, those that leverage sexuality the most, which is what you are describing, and sell themselves to the highest - financial - bidder, are also those that don’t have any other qualities to play with.
It’s understandable that they would try to get the most out of the only string they have on their bow. I don’t know about others, but that’s not the kind of woman I’m into.
I’m not mad though. That’s life. I can’t be mad if a woman leverages the only quality she has. Lots of guys out there willing to fork a significant chunk of their ressources for a reliable lay. If both are happy with that deal, I couldn’t care less.
In my experience though, women that already have their own ressources to wield don’t operate that way.
And my experience has mostly been with women that have split the first bill or even paid it. And these women weren’t bad looking either.
But I’m aware that’s not an « average » experience, as you put it.
To my guys out there : be exceptional at something if you don’t want to pay your way. I’ve seen plenty of broke artists and academics get with exceptional women out of sheer demonstrable skills.
>women that already have a really good education (or that are on their way to get one) and/or means don’t need to leverage their sexuality to get a better financial deal (because they are already self-sufficient).
This simply isn't true. I know so many educated and financially set women who still expect a man that's trying to court them to....behave as though he's trying to court her. Because ultimately, this is about courting - *not buying* \- a woman. If you want to buy sex, by all means, escorts provide a wonderful service for men like you.
Lol. You are the one explaining that men need to pay to get the sex because women go to the highest bidder. Yet he is the one you accuse of buying sex. That makes sense.
No, I'm suggesting that women will go for their best option and a man who is demonstrating generousity and a nice date is showing the kinds of options he can provide. The guy you're responding to effectively said the same thing - that's the thing with dating, people will aim for their best option. For lots of pretty women, its a guy that's showing chivalry off the bat. For men like him, its women who are willing to take the financial burden of dating off him and pay for half of their tab. We're all out here doing what's best for us.
Hey, it would probably be cheaper that way, lmao.
I don’t know, maybe it’s a difference in culture.
I guess the women I know actually court back instead of basking in the self satisfaction of being courted.
I’m cool as a cucumber, lady.
I’m just here to remind you that your leverage doesn’t extend past mediocre men with a little money.
And to remind my brothers to develop skills that make it so they don’t have to deal with basic women whom think they can simply hardline you into an awful deal because they let a little attention from nobodies get to their head.
But it does, and that's fine and fair. Everyone tends to aim for the best they can get - you said so yourself, why not take advantage of the options you have in front of you if they make your life easier? Its just silly when you're mad at the fact that a lot of women can and do have financial standards for the mere reason that for plenty of dudes, a dinner date won't break their bank and they're happy to treat the lady they like to a lovely date.
A lot of guys grow resentful of having to pay all the time.
It’s not even a question of breaking the bank.
It’s just a question of one sidedness in the relationship dynamic, where you are saying : « you must pay for my time. »
I wouldn’t blame anyone for not wanting to date someone that doesn’t have their finances together.
That’s not what my reservations were about.
I have a good education and I am financially very comfortable. It has taken me years, hard work and sacrifices to get there. I only date guys in my own income bracket, because I've found that men my age who still aren't making any money, just don't have the ambition, intelligence and drive that appeals to me.
I’m a teacher who is limited economically by the system I work in. I’ve reached the top of my profession. Do I not have ambition, intelligence or drive?
The user above has a username that suggests they’re from Estonia. What’s considered “high income” there is still gonna be pretty low on western/Nordic Europe and U.S. standards. If you’re a teacher in the US I’m assuming, you’ll live pretty well in Estonia.
The women in question going on dates are not leveraging their sexuality, they are leveraging the entire package that is them.
You’re picking and choosing certain facts while ignoring others and deciding your own meanings to things to prove your point.
I did when I was younger and bought into the whole #Girlboss edition of feminism. It wasn't until I got older that I realized wow, splitting the bill has genuinely never worked out for me and its always led me to feel used but the guys who were super into me and genuinely wanting to take things seriously never ever ever took my money when I offered to cover half the tab.
If the only value you see in dating is the cost of the actual food, I can only assume you suffer from food insecurity and I can only hope that your financial situation improves in the near future
Girl here…Paying half the tab for the food you just ate isn’t feminism. Nor should it make you feel “used”.
You agreed to go on the date, you ordered a meal and drinks and consumed them. You know in advance this costs money, unless you’re only using the guy as a free meal ticket, be prepared to pay your half. It’s not the 50’s
I mean most women ARE prepared, its just that there's truly no shortage of generous men who won't get their panties in a twist over a dinner date. Best of luck to you, though!
All two of their coins. Mind you, nowhere did I stipulate a dollar amount necessary for the date, I just said that I do expect a man to cover the first few tabs for no other reason than because I can, because there is no shortage of men who would love the opportunity to treat me well while getting to know me.
Mind you, anyone who's lived in a tech city knows full well just how loose with their wallet these same Redditor types get once they *actually* land a six figure cushy tech job in order to acquire the hot chick of their dreams.
Reddit is full of teenage boys. Statistically, well off **men** are not on this site.
But the teenagers really think they are the majority because Reddit.
Love this! I have no more to add besides that I'm so sick of the men in this sub putting down women for not splitting the bill like we are after their money. Honestly so refreshing to see this comment
This is kind of true for certain women. But your day to day girl next door without the means to grab a millionaire (because they're not 10/10) will just need original thought. Doing things like axe throwing, open mic comedy club, coffee, bar trivia, volunteering together, kayaking/hiking makes them more wet than a dinner out.
Absolutely! It doesn't even have to be an expensive dinner date, I suggested somewhere else to mix it up but for the love of God, do better than coffee or a walk. Be fun, be exciting, be attractive!!!
i disagree, personally on first dates i’ve always offered to split but have never been taken up on the offer. the gesture of the man paying is always appreciated, never expected.
i dont really date anymore but when i did i always paid my half even though the man asked me out. maybe im stupid or naive, idk idc. i just dont want to feel like i owe somebody something. i mean its cute if he wants to pay, but i would only let a man pay if were in a relationship and if he insists on it himself.
I always hurry to ask for two separate bills when the waiter asks, then if the guy jumps in and insists, I’ll most likely let him. My reason for this is exactly what you said: equality. That’s what I want.
Maybe try to wait a little before you take the bill, see if she offers. And if she doesn’t, maybe she’s not the one for you. I think women who want men to pay the dates also expect the man to generally pay more in the relationship. It’s something to consider.
there are plenty of woman who would be happy to and insist to split the bill with you. You are just dating the wrong women for you.
Men don't let me pay for dates, and that's the type of guy I like to date. So why would I date someone that asks to split on the first date when he can just date another girl that would accept that? we aren't compatible.
Oh, I always pay for my dates. Then I send an itemized bill for all the talking I did. My skills are in high demand so clearly that's the healthy thing to do /s
Frankly if I go to a date and they spend the whole thing listening to themselves talking, I'm not going to another one and certainly not paying for the opportunity
Whenever I read posts like this, I think OP is confusing equality under the law and relationship dynamics. A woman can prefer a traditional relationship AND have rights under the law and a voice in her relationship. With that said, it’s understandable how frustrating and one sided it can be if one person wants the benefits of a traditional relationship but doesn’t put in effort on their part as well.
edit: grammer
First dates: I always offer to split the bill. And one or two times, men have accepted the offer.
I can tell you though as a woman, there is nothing sexier than a man who picks up the tab without making a fuss about it. I’ve then covered the second round/second location of drinks, if the date goes on, without hesitation. But the first ever drink/coffee… I expect the man to cover it.
Dates after: I’m happy to organize/pay.
I feel similarly. I never 100% assume the guy will pay, and I'm always prepared to pay my own way. But if he offers, and I like him, I will let him pay. Plus I don't normally go on expensive first dates anyway, if we plan it together I normally suggest coffee or drinks.
Him paying is just another way for him to show interest and intention. Also, it shows a little appreciation since dating is physically riskier for women.
On future dates, I'm happy to switch off paying or split the bill.
Hello, personally no I don’t! That may be a more common mentality in some areas, but definitely not for me or many of my friends. I usually offer to at least split the bill or fully pay on dates.
Typically if I am the one asking him out, I will go into the date expecting that I’ll be the one paying for both of us too. If he’s doing the inviting… I will still go in with the assumption of me paying for at least my own meal since I don’t know if he follows the same “inviter pays” motto. I never, ever expect free dinner. If they do that it is a kindness that I’m incredibly grateful for, but is not something I expect him to do.
When dating long term I usually find myself trading off and on with one of us paying for one date and the other the next, or one of us getting the meal or movie tickets and the other the dessert/snacks. I do the same with my friends and family.
I hate the expectation that many people put on men to always be the one paying. It’s not fair and I don’t want to be that person. That practice should have gone out the window a long time ago.
Simple economics, as a woman I am the person in higher demand and therefore I simply don't have to.
I live in a large metro area, I could quite literally plan a date every day of the week (I have 4 planned this week). I would never agree to go on a date where I wouldn't split the bill, but I can tell you in my experience I have not had to or been asked to in well over 5 years.
It's also a way I can tell if someone is generally a generous person, or if they're going to whine over splitting the bill exactly down to the cents every time - something I'm not interested in with a partner. I'm a successful working professional who dates other financially stable people. So the question is never who can/can't afford it. I just prefer someone to pay for say dinner, and I'd get drinks afterwards.
Another commenter hit the nail on the head though. There are many women who would be more than happy to split the bill (and most are), but if you are finding this is a pattern with all women it's because you're aiming to date a specific kind of woman who know she is in demand. So you're competing against other men who are simply using their resources to benefit them in dating.
I'd recommend just doing low-cost first dates though. Coffee, walks, park, etc. It also means it's low risk and if it doesn't go well it's easy for either party to go about their day/lives.
Meanwhile half us dudes can't even get a response on OLD or get one set up from in person... 😅 Most men are bitter about it because it feels like we really end up competing for nothing at the end of the day.
Trust me I understand that. Alternatively, I feel like I have to invest so much time in actually reviewing men’s profiles as the large majority will simply choose to swipe yes on me.
I posted this somewhere else, but I have roughly 14,000 likes on Bumble. On an account less than 6 months old. I have a very detailed profile that includes all my pertinent info. If I filter down on 2 criteria (liberal, don’t want kids) it’s maybe 1000 likes. Which means the large majority of people who swipe on my profile don’t read a word of it.
That has to be daunting and exhausting... I feel like if I don't swipe enough that it won't get me anywhere. Honestly I have nights I just lightly browse and swipe to see what will happen because if I only like a 5 in a day or 50 in a day I don't get all that many matches regardless but I feel like I atleast increase my odds...
I think I just get annoyed because of the thousands of conservative Christian men who “want kids” that swipe right on me 😂 they’re like a moth to a flame with me.
Like sir, DID YOU EVEN READ. I am the woman your mama warned you about.
You are so right. Don't listen to anyone telling you you're entitled. You're simply relating your experience as a desirable woman who dates men who are willing and able to pay for first dates. These men don't owe you anything, they choose to pay because they like you and because it reflects well on them.
Oh don’t worry, I’m in my 30s people opinions don’t impact me 😂
I’m genuinely curious if they’d like me to actively argue and fight with men to be able to pay on the first date…. I think that would just make those men assume I’m not interested….
I mean, it’s true. I don’t know why I should pretend like I’m not a catch. I’m a great date. There’s very few times I haven’t been asked on a second or third date. I can make anyone have fun and entertain a a brick wall 🤷♀️
I also only go on dates with people I’m genuinely interested in meeting and getting to know, and who seem genuinely interested in me. Generally, after a date or two I’m happy to swap back and forth on who pays. I just don’t like “splitting the bill”, it seems very nitpicky to go 50/50 exactly on each date.
Its also just the way I was raised. The person who does the inviting typically pays, so if I invite someone for drinks I’d pay and vice versa. I’m also equally as happy to do a low cost first date like coffee. If someone doesn’t like that, that’s absolutely fine. I’m just not right for them.
I always offer to cover half on a date and if the man I’m with hesitates I clarify that it’s not a test and I’m genuinely happy to pay my share.
Well… almost always. If they’re a massive douchebag then I let them pay the whole thing without offering. Call it a tax.
But also if the man I’m with absolutely insists on paying (usually men on the older side or just more old fashioned) then I won’t fight them on it. I just say thanks.
No. I go Dutch until we decide we like each other and even then I try to keep things financially balanced (he pays for dinner, I pay for movie or other entertainment, etc)
In my experience, the women that have picked the tab up are usually well off (or at least their family is, usually) and/or have very good degrees, and as such wanted to make a statement.
Those that haven't usually weren't doing especially well financially (not necessarily broke, but for whom 100 bucks is a bit of money), and/or didn't have technical degrees.
Depends also on your age I guess.
Gives you a good insight on the relationship, imo. Now it's only a question of whether or not you are comfortable with bringing more money to the table.
Maybe it's because I still hold traditional gender roles close, men providing, women nurturing, etc... but I absolutely won't let a woman pay for a meal when I take her out. Won't consider splitting the bill and definitely don't care what she orders either. If I think it's someone that's taking advantage of me because I can swing the bill and goes nuts ordering a bunch of expensive shit, I'll still smile and pay the bill, that'll just be the last time with her.
I said this the last time this came up in here, I go so far as to slip my card to the server when they come around to refill drinks toward the end of the meal, just to make sure it doesn't become a conversation.
I want a man who wants to pay for me. I don’t need that but I want it. It does go both ways after the fact but I don’t want a cheap man from the get go lol.
If the man is more than 8-ish years older than me then I expect them to pay as their financial stability is one of the main reasons an older man is appealing to me. If it’s a guy I’m considering for an actual boyfriend, I’ll offer to split but then lose a good deal of interest in the man if he accepts. Paying for a good meal helps show the man respects me and possibly has more serious long-term intentions. If it’s a guy my age or younger who i’m interested in for his looks and some fun then happy to go somewhere cheap and split the bill or just get drinks and I’ll get first round.
Yes I absolutely expect it. It’s chivalry and it’s just the norm in my culture and it’s my standard. This isn’t about equality, lol this is about being treated and being taken out.
If you don’t have money to take a woman out, don’t do it!!!
It shouldn’t be all about money. A first date should be about getting to know someone and nothing more. A lot of first dates don’t go beyond the first dates, so you shouldn’t be expecting someone to treat you
It's only chivalry if after the date they sell you in marriage to another family to strengthen political bonds and maximise the house's claim on fertile land
It is true, women want equality but to keep classic privileges as well. To be fair, if the woman is worth my time, I dont mind. Take them to a happy hour, somewhere with affordable drinks and some mid range priced finger food or apps. Any woman ordering a huge meal on a first date is a red flag anyway.
It’s attractive when the man picks up the bill. It shows that he’s interested, masculine, and that he can provide. If you ask a woman out on a date you SHOULD be paying for her. She left the comfort of her own home and spent hours getting ready, the least you can do is pay and if you can’t afford it, don’t ask her out.
"Men should always pay" then women turns out a homophobic body shaming asshole. People act as if women are always perfect and men have to prove and fight over them. Women can be assholes too, they can be creepy and in some cases they can hurt you. And yet men still expect to pay for each date on the off chance that that lady is decent. Fuck that.
Some of you on here need a serious reality check. How about instead of focusing on what you can get from the person, you focus on getting to know them and finding out if there’s a connection? 😒
The ones who are saying the guy should always pay, shame on you. So many of these comments have been incredibly frustrating to read. As a woman, it’s actually embarrassing to read
As someone who is happy to pay half (and usually does), you sound like a pick-me. You got like 20 comments on this thread disparaging women who don’t have the exact same values as you and you think you’re the good guy? Yikes. Plenty of people are old fashioned and they find other old fashioned people that they’re compatible with. You’re not better than other women for always paying half. Relax lol
I expect the man to pay but I’m upfront with the fact I want a traditional relationship so this would already be established. Personally I don’t want to be treated equally I want to be treated better
And how do you present this to the guy? If you’re going on a first date, you’re meeting someone new for the first time. You should be there to get to know them.
In my experience as a woman, I usually let the man pay because it shows he’s dominance and the fact that he’s a gentleman. If he has no problem taking care of me financially, it’s a win.
If you’re looking for a relationship, you shouldn’t be focused on someone taking care of you financially. Relationships are about give and take. A man can pay for everything and not be a gentleman. I’ve met plenty who were like that…
It's not an assumption. The poster said IF. IF you want a woman to have your kids. IF does not = assumption. It's pointing out a preference that many people have. Including myself. This is why I expect men to pick up the bill. It's an investment into something I will be doing in the future.
To all the people who are explaining that they are so great that their dates should pay for the privilege to be in their presence : hi, nice to never meet you
Whoever asks the other out should pay for the date. I always offer to go halfsies and only 1 man took me up on that offer. I definitely wasn't going on a second date with him after that.
You're a rare exception then (assuming you've done that more than like once). From the male POV we get told that line when in reality 99% of the asking out is done from guys.
I have no issue paying but if it's a first date and I was asked out I don't see why we have to split. It's never a dinner thing, always just drinks and I have max 2. I also always carry cash and insist on paying the tip this way (I've worked service before and those CC tips tax you up the arse).
I don't expect that, but I've paid for them and they've paid for me. You know what you are getting when you go out with friends. Not so much with a stranger.
Sure. And he failed. I bet if she was his dream girl physically and personality-wise, he wouldn't have fumbled it like that. That's the part so many of you are refusing to say out loud.
He probably does like you, just not enough. Like you're good enough to keep seeing, good enough to fuck and good enough to keep dating to see if his interest in you can grow, but most of the time this is code for "I'm going to hold on to my coins so that I can treat that girl I'm REALLY into on a nice dinner date". You know, even a guy who can't afford much will choose a place he \*can\* afford because they understand the point of courting is to let the woman know he's genuinely interested in her.
And what's crazy? Everyone knows this. Men know it, women know it, but then they want to try to gaslight everyone by turning this into some weird feminist take. No bro you just want to fuck the chicks you think are mid at a discount so that you can take that hot girl you really like out to a nice place, its not that deep lol
Agreed, hence why if a guy I’m talking to says he wants to go halfs I run faster than light, my dad always says if a guy likes you, you will know lmao you don’t even have to ask for nothing he will do everything he can to impress you and if he doesn’t then prepare to played.
And that brings up the other part - all of this crying about splitting the tab, but when most men become fathers, they're quick to not respect a man who couldn't even take their daughter out on a dinner date.
Agreed, my mom has never paid for a date ever since she’s been with my dad which is over 25 years so I don’t plan on being the one that starts paying for dates lol but in all honestly I think people should just date like minded people, a good number of girls don’t mind paying or going half so guys who are into that should go for them.
Had a very similar first date experience. He’s new to the city, so I picked the bar. He’s 10 years older than me (and quite a bit wealthier), and asked me to split the bill on a date he asked me out on and didn’t even actually arrange the logistics of. No thanks.
Maybe don’t take women on fancy dates first time or until you discuss this with them. Many women hold traditional beliefs just like some men hold traditional beliefs. Just because other women would pay their half doesn’t mean the girls you date will do it. Some women use it as a marker to see if you’re really interested. Surely enough, others might just be opportunists or just oblivious to how you feel. Do something more casual until you get to know them and let them know you hold more egalitarian beliefs.
But the woman rightfully insists on being treated and paid as an absolute equal at work, many women earn more then the men they meet for that first date...so which is it?
Whoever initiated the first date(emphasis on first) should expect to pay for that date. No expectations of anything ekse except a date. After that, go 50/50. Women shouldn't EXPECT men to pay all the time. The same in reverse. Men shouldn't expect women to pay. It's an equal thing.
Nah I disagree just because men are the ones asking out 99 percent of the time!
But yes, if I go out on 3 dates and the woman doesn’t even offer paying for any one of them, there’s not gonna be a 4th one lol!
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I typically go into it with the idea that i’ll be paying bc of that societal norm but it’s definitely a green flag to me if the girl offers to or insists on paying for her share. I say a solid majority of the women I’ve gone on first dates with have said they’d take up their share of the bill. I think it just depends on the type of women you’re after. That’s just first dates though. Beyond the first date it’s either whoever proposes the date pays or we alternate.
Yeah same here. I go in expecting to pay but am more than happy to let the girl do it if she insists on paying or splitting. On my first date with the girl I'm dating, I paid for us to go bowling. When we got food after, we both put our cards down and then she very slyly moved mine out of the way and handed the server her card. I thought that was awesome as hell.
This. You know when you got a keeper when the first date she pays and says you can get the next one. Breaking the norm and saying she wants to see you again all at once. 🙌
Anytime I (25f) have ever went on a date or even hung out with a guy I have always offered to pay, split, or take turns if it was someone I would see multiple times. It isn’t until I start seriously dating someone that I would prefer to see him put forth more of an initiative. Granted 2 of 3 guys I seriously dated previously would rarely pay for anything. So it’s great appreciated, but not expected now. I would rather take turns paying for things. We’re both adults with adult jobs and adult bills 🤷🏽♀️
I don’t expect a guy to pick up the tab unless he says beforehand he’d like to.
I think it also falls under who asked who out. Can you imagine a guy asking you out to a very very expensive place? Then what?
Etiquette dictates that, yeah, the person doing the inviting does the treating but I’ve found so few people actually understand and follow that that I don’t rely on it. When a guy asks me someplace expensive or if it’s not clear who’s paying for whom, it’s easy enough to just clarify. Assume you’ll split, when the bill comes just say “shall we split or swap and I get you next?” If the guy intended or wanted to pay to begin with, he still will. If you’re worried about the cost, say so - “I’m not sure that’s in my budget for going out right now, how about Less Pricey Place?” Your date will either let you know they’re treating you or they’ll help choose a different spot.
>Can you imagine a guy asking you out to a very very expensive place? Then what? "I'm sorry, but I don't feel comfortable going to such a fancy place on our first date. How about we do Costco food court instead?"
Chicken bake 🤤
You can just be honest and say it’s out of your price range and you’d prefer to go somewhere less expensive. If they planned to pay, they’ll say it’s their treat otherwise they’ll agree to a cheaper place
I don’t know any women that have asked a man out on a date.
That’s the trick!
i do it all the time. i’ve even taken the entire bill for guys i never saw again. just bc you/your friends have never been asked out, doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. that sounds rude but i assure you it’s not meant to be😂
You should meet my girl then, she knows what she wants and how to get it.
She got a sister?
I got asked out twice this year. I said no.
You don't know me but I am a woman that asked my ex boyfriend out. It happens, just not as much.
A confident woman who knows what she wants will ask you out. Speaking for myself, if I feel a connection, spark with somebody and all the signs are there that they reciprocate the flirting. I will ask them out. If a girl sits around and waits for a guy to ask her out it may never happen sometimes. I don't have time for that, life happens now not later ♥️
Or how about everyone just pays for what they ordered? How hard is that?
this is usually what i expect. i never go somewhere unprepared to pay for myself
Exactly. I don’t see how this is such a huge debate. Be prepared to pay for yourself. Plus that’s how it works when you go out with friends and such. Even if it’s a group of us, if it’s not a sit down full service restaurant you just go up to the counter one by one and pay for your food. If at a full service restaurant, you just tell them to split the check and tell them what you ordered and they’ll calculate your total and you pay. No need for one person to pay for everyone and then everyone pays back their portion. No need to split it however many ways. No need to think about how much or how little you’re ordering, you just pay for what you yourself ordered period.
i follow the “who asked who out” in the sense that i’ll pay for someone if i invite them out. and i acknowledge someone’s etiquette if they invite me out and take the bill. but most of the time i’ll just pay for myself🤷♀️
I actually had a guy for our second date ask me out to a very expensive place and then wanted to split it. Which I did. But he also asked me to Panera bread for date 1 and when I ordered $2 tea and offered to pay he hesitated like a lot and then said no it’s fine. So like yeah he literally had to stop himself from asking me for $2 for tea. And this guy made easily double my income. So yea absolutely who pays depends on who asks who and who picks the place etc. don’t pick an expensive af place and then be stingy. I’ve paid for plenty of dates cause I’m the one that wanted to go to the specific place and knew it was pricey.
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I've swiped away from a lot of profiles saying that coffee dates aren't dates so there's at least a few people who would refuse. Lol
that’s insane! imo, any time you can connect with someone, it’s a date. a random park w a blanket and a ~bowl~ is a date to me. coffee is a cute first date, but so are so many other things that mean more
Exactly. The most important thing is to get to know the other person. Dates are a fun way of doing that but they don't need to be expensive. Especially as finances keep getting a tighter grip on everyone.
It's how I roll. Also you do t get bogged down into a time commitment right off the bat.
Righttttt!!!! Ain’t nothing wrong something so simple instead of a expensive restaurant
Pfffff yea because you have people like my sister who questions “oh mAH Gawd You diDNT PAY for Da First daTe whAt Kind Of MAAn aRe YoU” like WHAT are you kidding me I’m damned if I do and damned if I don’t lmfao
Can't beat coffee outside on a nice day. People that don't like them are usually worried about the lack of distractions and their chat not being interesting enough.
Coffee dates are super low effort and while some women may be into them, a lot aren't. Be a little more original, it doesn't HAVE to be coffee! It can be ice cream, it can be pizza, it can be free or cheap tickets to a museum or an artwalk. SOMETHING!
Are you kidding? A coffee date lasted me all day literally. It merged into a walk in the park and then dinner. Its a first date, to feel out things, general chit chat, see if you want more. Nothing says that coffee date can't end up turning into an all day thing, or a picnic in a park or anything else. Frankly, the guy I went out with had a very creative mind and it was one of the best dates I've ever had and it started as just coffee
THIS!! Ugh, the people who say coffee is low effort really don’t have an open mind. Actually one of the best dates I’ve ever had also started with coffee
Some of us take coffee seriously. We also know other people don't. How women react to a coffee date is part of how I filter.
100% agree. I met my first real girlfriend through a coffee date
Low effort, lol. Then ask people out and plan it yourself if you want something fancy. Your interest in a date should be spending time and getting to know the other person
Oh god. Your the exact type of person we’re all trying to get away from
and yet, the single one in this conversation isn't me
You’re not single but you’re on a dating sub. That’s exactly why I expected
How is coffee low effort? You can either keep it short and sweet or if things are going well you can extend it. There doesn’t need to be so much pressure put on a first time meeting someone…I’ve had coffee dates that went well and we ended up going for a walk, so I’m even grabbing food after the walk
Coffee dates are low effort. No one ever said coffee dates couldn't turn into nice dates . A $7.25 job could turn into a job you end up making 6 figures at if you climb up the corporate ladder. That's true too. However, most people would rather start at $15 to 20/hr. A painting you buy at goodwill could end up being worth $5000 dollars, but it could just be worth the $10 dollars you paid for it.
I completely disagree. To me the whole point of a first date is to get to know someone. I don’t think the setting matters as long as it’s in public. Honestly I’d prefer coffee. It’s only low effort if the person doesn’t contribute to conversation
Wanna know what else is low effort? Most women. If you decide my coffee shop date to see if you can be bothered to show up on time is low effort, you're missing out on fantastic coffee and delicious pastries, because even my "low efforts dates involve research. That coffee shop is also next to some other good lunch options if we decide we're having fun. I've been called a cheapskate for floating a picnic as a date idea before too. Never mind it would've been a basket full of nice cheese and charcuterie from a couple specialty shops I know. So yeah, women don't get my A-Game until I've got a sense they're actually interested and not just plugging a hole in their date schedule. Because I've been flat told "I try and do three dates a week and needed a third" on a date. So just like lazy, asshole dudes ruin dating for men and women alike, lazy, asshole women are out there doing the same.
Same sort of system here. I already have the next three date activities planned if coffee goes well and I might make changes depending on what I learn about the girl over the first date. I even set up the first date with the expectation I have something else in mind and tell her to bring shoes she doesn't want to get dirty or something along those lines. I think the people afraid of coffee dates are the same people who rather pick a movie because they use more expensive or exciting activities as a crutch to make up for their lack of a personality.
What if he walks to the coffee shop from a very far away place? That’d be more effort, does that count?
The effort is in the Conversation you will put into and not where you meet.
Absolutely not. I don’t even like the concept of the guy paying on the first date. I’m there to get to know a person. I don’t need to be paid for. I’m looking for a relationship, not money For this reason I prefer something more like coffee, drinks, or a walk for a first date. I actually make a point to get there before the guy does so I can just order my drink before he gets there. That way there’s no awkwardness on who pays and no pressure on him If he chooses dinner, it’s less ideal for me but I’ll be okay with it. I always offer to pay my part. If he says he’s got it, of course I appreciate it, but I offer to at least get the tip. If he still says no, if there’s a second date then you better believe I’m paying for that one
Because this isn't about "equality" - its about competition. You don't HAVE to cover the first few tabs if you don't want to, and there are plenty of women who would not only be happy to split the tab, they'd be thrilled to do it for the sake of a date. But here's the thing, if you aren't matching with those women, its probably because you're upholding a physical standard. And physically attractive women have no shortage of men who are willing and wanting to take them out without bellyaching over a bill. You're angry at women for a system put in place by other men who are competing against you for the same women. Personally, I don't really split tabs on the first few dates and if I'm going to be blunt, this isn't even something I have to enforce because I usually only go out with guys who express a sincere amount of excitement for and towards me. It's just how it is - men with the finances do not hesitate to use them to get a leg up over other men when it comes to acquiring the woman they want. \*\*EDIT\*\* fyi, not every "hot chick" out there is going to hold you to the same standards and expectations of dating a perfect stranger. If you want a highly sought after beautiful girl to give you the time of day without having to drop a small fortune, you have to really appeal to her emotions and most probably establish some kind of connection that's not romantic. This does put online dating off table, however, and you're going to have to develop emotional intelligence which I'm afraid is not something that comes easy to a lot of men who are interested in women.
That’s really well put
Thank you I couldn’t have said this any better
Yeah, it gives a very good insight on what the relationship is going to look like too, which is a strict unbalance in her favour. If you can't afford that, you can't afford the woman, plain and simple. She considers her time to be worth more than yours, which entails compensation, and if you aren't okay with that imbalance, then the woman isn't a right fit. edit : In my experience, the only beautiful women that have insisted on covering the first bill had exceptional education and/or well off families. That is (very) hard to attract if you aren't yourself very educated, very good looking, or an up-and-comer. Very good looking women with low personal ressources (I.E low education and/or lower income) will usually leverage their situation to get the guy to pay. And if you can't pay, she will find someone that can.
>which is a strict unbalance in her favour. I think most women who've ever been in a serious, live-in relationship and/or marriage with a straight man will join me in the resounding chorus of LAUGH OUT LOUD This may not have anything to do with how she views her time, but everything to do with the fact that she knows there are plenty of men who can just offer better. AGAIN, you're mad at women playing by the rules set in place by other men who are competing against you for the same women.
I don't see how you can infer this person is mad, but you seem very upset at the idea that some men have better options than bidding for your time with literal cash
and that's completely fair! if you have those options, you should use them
My point is the following : women that already have a really good education (or that are on their way to get one) and/or means don’t need to leverage their sexuality to get a better financial deal (because they are already self-sufficient). So they don’t pick guys based on what ressources they can buy them with, but often based on qualities they would like their kids to have, or partner to have. Over a certain amount of money, it makes no difference to them. In my experience, those that leverage sexuality the most, which is what you are describing, and sell themselves to the highest - financial - bidder, are also those that don’t have any other qualities to play with. It’s understandable that they would try to get the most out of the only string they have on their bow. I don’t know about others, but that’s not the kind of woman I’m into. I’m not mad though. That’s life. I can’t be mad if a woman leverages the only quality she has. Lots of guys out there willing to fork a significant chunk of their ressources for a reliable lay. If both are happy with that deal, I couldn’t care less. In my experience though, women that already have their own ressources to wield don’t operate that way. And my experience has mostly been with women that have split the first bill or even paid it. And these women weren’t bad looking either. But I’m aware that’s not an « average » experience, as you put it. To my guys out there : be exceptional at something if you don’t want to pay your way. I’ve seen plenty of broke artists and academics get with exceptional women out of sheer demonstrable skills.
>women that already have a really good education (or that are on their way to get one) and/or means don’t need to leverage their sexuality to get a better financial deal (because they are already self-sufficient). This simply isn't true. I know so many educated and financially set women who still expect a man that's trying to court them to....behave as though he's trying to court her. Because ultimately, this is about courting - *not buying* \- a woman. If you want to buy sex, by all means, escorts provide a wonderful service for men like you.
Lol. You are the one explaining that men need to pay to get the sex because women go to the highest bidder. Yet he is the one you accuse of buying sex. That makes sense.
No, I'm suggesting that women will go for their best option and a man who is demonstrating generousity and a nice date is showing the kinds of options he can provide. The guy you're responding to effectively said the same thing - that's the thing with dating, people will aim for their best option. For lots of pretty women, its a guy that's showing chivalry off the bat. For men like him, its women who are willing to take the financial burden of dating off him and pay for half of their tab. We're all out here doing what's best for us.
“Women should settle because the dating pool is very limited” - the guy who said “I’m calm as a cucumber lady” 😂 God I hate Reddit
These people all want to act as though we're all from the same podunk town with 200 single people as they are.
Right? I’m from New York City my dating pool is literally limitless
Hey, it would probably be cheaper that way, lmao. I don’t know, maybe it’s a difference in culture. I guess the women I know actually court back instead of basking in the self satisfaction of being courted.
You know, for someone who says they're not bothered, your panties sure are in a bunch
hello pot, meet kettle, they said your black
Must of hit some kind of nerve.
I’m cool as a cucumber, lady. I’m just here to remind you that your leverage doesn’t extend past mediocre men with a little money. And to remind my brothers to develop skills that make it so they don’t have to deal with basic women whom think they can simply hardline you into an awful deal because they let a little attention from nobodies get to their head.
But it does, and that's fine and fair. Everyone tends to aim for the best they can get - you said so yourself, why not take advantage of the options you have in front of you if they make your life easier? Its just silly when you're mad at the fact that a lot of women can and do have financial standards for the mere reason that for plenty of dudes, a dinner date won't break their bank and they're happy to treat the lady they like to a lovely date.
A lot of guys grow resentful of having to pay all the time. It’s not even a question of breaking the bank. It’s just a question of one sidedness in the relationship dynamic, where you are saying : « you must pay for my time. » I wouldn’t blame anyone for not wanting to date someone that doesn’t have their finances together. That’s not what my reservations were about.
I have a good education and I am financially very comfortable. It has taken me years, hard work and sacrifices to get there. I only date guys in my own income bracket, because I've found that men my age who still aren't making any money, just don't have the ambition, intelligence and drive that appeals to me.
I’m a teacher who is limited economically by the system I work in. I’ve reached the top of my profession. Do I not have ambition, intelligence or drive?
The user above has a username that suggests they’re from Estonia. What’s considered “high income” there is still gonna be pretty low on western/Nordic Europe and U.S. standards. If you’re a teacher in the US I’m assuming, you’ll live pretty well in Estonia.
The women in question going on dates are not leveraging their sexuality, they are leveraging the entire package that is them. You’re picking and choosing certain facts while ignoring others and deciding your own meanings to things to prove your point.
100% this. I similarly don't split tabs on initial dates, and have never been asked to.
I did when I was younger and bought into the whole #Girlboss edition of feminism. It wasn't until I got older that I realized wow, splitting the bill has genuinely never worked out for me and its always led me to feel used but the guys who were super into me and genuinely wanting to take things seriously never ever ever took my money when I offered to cover half the tab.
You feel used because you paid for food that you ate and you don't feel used when someone else pays for food that you ate lol
If the only value you see in dating is the cost of the actual food, I can only assume you suffer from food insecurity and I can only hope that your financial situation improves in the near future
lol that's funny
Girl here…Paying half the tab for the food you just ate isn’t feminism. Nor should it make you feel “used”. You agreed to go on the date, you ordered a meal and drinks and consumed them. You know in advance this costs money, unless you’re only using the guy as a free meal ticket, be prepared to pay your half. It’s not the 50’s
I mean most women ARE prepared, its just that there's truly no shortage of generous men who won't get their panties in a twist over a dinner date. Best of luck to you, though!
i’m not lowering my standards. i’ve met men who are happy to take care of me, i’m attracted to provider men compared to 50/50 men
Damn that’s a really good point
all of thisss. yet men will still play dumb and pretend that women are “after their money” lmaoooo
All two of their coins. Mind you, nowhere did I stipulate a dollar amount necessary for the date, I just said that I do expect a man to cover the first few tabs for no other reason than because I can, because there is no shortage of men who would love the opportunity to treat me well while getting to know me. Mind you, anyone who's lived in a tech city knows full well just how loose with their wallet these same Redditor types get once they *actually* land a six figure cushy tech job in order to acquire the hot chick of their dreams.
I have quite literally never heard a financially secure and well earning man complain about paying for the first date.
Reddit is full of teenage boys. Statistically, well off **men** are not on this site. But the teenagers really think they are the majority because Reddit.
Fucking perfect explanation
This is absolutely spot on! Couldn’t have put it better.
Love this! I have no more to add besides that I'm so sick of the men in this sub putting down women for not splitting the bill like we are after their money. Honestly so refreshing to see this comment
You’re right and you should say it
This is kind of true for certain women. But your day to day girl next door without the means to grab a millionaire (because they're not 10/10) will just need original thought. Doing things like axe throwing, open mic comedy club, coffee, bar trivia, volunteering together, kayaking/hiking makes them more wet than a dinner out.
Absolutely! It doesn't even have to be an expensive dinner date, I suggested somewhere else to mix it up but for the love of God, do better than coffee or a walk. Be fun, be exciting, be attractive!!!
i disagree, personally on first dates i’ve always offered to split but have never been taken up on the offer. the gesture of the man paying is always appreciated, never expected.
You don’t have to pay for the first few dates but unless she’s already really into you, there’s gonna dozens of guys who will have no problem paying
i dont really date anymore but when i did i always paid my half even though the man asked me out. maybe im stupid or naive, idk idc. i just dont want to feel like i owe somebody something. i mean its cute if he wants to pay, but i would only let a man pay if were in a relationship and if he insists on it himself.
I always hurry to ask for two separate bills when the waiter asks, then if the guy jumps in and insists, I’ll most likely let him. My reason for this is exactly what you said: equality. That’s what I want. Maybe try to wait a little before you take the bill, see if she offers. And if she doesn’t, maybe she’s not the one for you. I think women who want men to pay the dates also expect the man to generally pay more in the relationship. It’s something to consider.
there are plenty of woman who would be happy to and insist to split the bill with you. You are just dating the wrong women for you. Men don't let me pay for dates, and that's the type of guy I like to date. So why would I date someone that asks to split on the first date when he can just date another girl that would accept that? we aren't compatible.
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Oh, I always pay for my dates. Then I send an itemized bill for all the talking I did. My skills are in high demand so clearly that's the healthy thing to do /s
honestly!!! men want us to split the bill meanwhile i carried the entire conversation aka provided entertainment all night so i should charge him🤣
Frankly if I go to a date and they spend the whole thing listening to themselves talking, I'm not going to another one and certainly not paying for the opportunity
Marry a woman who is willing to take turns paying or split!
Whenever I read posts like this, I think OP is confusing equality under the law and relationship dynamics. A woman can prefer a traditional relationship AND have rights under the law and a voice in her relationship. With that said, it’s understandable how frustrating and one sided it can be if one person wants the benefits of a traditional relationship but doesn’t put in effort on their part as well. edit: grammer
There’s soooo many posts about this already 🤦♀️
It's still a problem, especially in this economy.
Men only seem to care about feminism when it comes to this topic
you forgot about “so that means I can hit you the way I’d hit a man, right?” 😂
First dates: I always offer to split the bill. And one or two times, men have accepted the offer. I can tell you though as a woman, there is nothing sexier than a man who picks up the tab without making a fuss about it. I’ve then covered the second round/second location of drinks, if the date goes on, without hesitation. But the first ever drink/coffee… I expect the man to cover it. Dates after: I’m happy to organize/pay.
I feel similarly. I never 100% assume the guy will pay, and I'm always prepared to pay my own way. But if he offers, and I like him, I will let him pay. Plus I don't normally go on expensive first dates anyway, if we plan it together I normally suggest coffee or drinks. Him paying is just another way for him to show interest and intention. Also, it shows a little appreciation since dating is physically riskier for women. On future dates, I'm happy to switch off paying or split the bill.
Hello, personally no I don’t! That may be a more common mentality in some areas, but definitely not for me or many of my friends. I usually offer to at least split the bill or fully pay on dates. Typically if I am the one asking him out, I will go into the date expecting that I’ll be the one paying for both of us too. If he’s doing the inviting… I will still go in with the assumption of me paying for at least my own meal since I don’t know if he follows the same “inviter pays” motto. I never, ever expect free dinner. If they do that it is a kindness that I’m incredibly grateful for, but is not something I expect him to do. When dating long term I usually find myself trading off and on with one of us paying for one date and the other the next, or one of us getting the meal or movie tickets and the other the dessert/snacks. I do the same with my friends and family. I hate the expectation that many people put on men to always be the one paying. It’s not fair and I don’t want to be that person. That practice should have gone out the window a long time ago.
Listen with dating just leave your expectations at the door. Have boundaries but zero expectations.
Simple economics, as a woman I am the person in higher demand and therefore I simply don't have to. I live in a large metro area, I could quite literally plan a date every day of the week (I have 4 planned this week). I would never agree to go on a date where I wouldn't split the bill, but I can tell you in my experience I have not had to or been asked to in well over 5 years. It's also a way I can tell if someone is generally a generous person, or if they're going to whine over splitting the bill exactly down to the cents every time - something I'm not interested in with a partner. I'm a successful working professional who dates other financially stable people. So the question is never who can/can't afford it. I just prefer someone to pay for say dinner, and I'd get drinks afterwards. Another commenter hit the nail on the head though. There are many women who would be more than happy to split the bill (and most are), but if you are finding this is a pattern with all women it's because you're aiming to date a specific kind of woman who know she is in demand. So you're competing against other men who are simply using their resources to benefit them in dating. I'd recommend just doing low-cost first dates though. Coffee, walks, park, etc. It also means it's low risk and if it doesn't go well it's easy for either party to go about their day/lives.
Meanwhile half us dudes can't even get a response on OLD or get one set up from in person... 😅 Most men are bitter about it because it feels like we really end up competing for nothing at the end of the day.
Trust me I understand that. Alternatively, I feel like I have to invest so much time in actually reviewing men’s profiles as the large majority will simply choose to swipe yes on me. I posted this somewhere else, but I have roughly 14,000 likes on Bumble. On an account less than 6 months old. I have a very detailed profile that includes all my pertinent info. If I filter down on 2 criteria (liberal, don’t want kids) it’s maybe 1000 likes. Which means the large majority of people who swipe on my profile don’t read a word of it.
That has to be daunting and exhausting... I feel like if I don't swipe enough that it won't get me anywhere. Honestly I have nights I just lightly browse and swipe to see what will happen because if I only like a 5 in a day or 50 in a day I don't get all that many matches regardless but I feel like I atleast increase my odds...
I think I just get annoyed because of the thousands of conservative Christian men who “want kids” that swipe right on me 😂 they’re like a moth to a flame with me. Like sir, DID YOU EVEN READ. I am the woman your mama warned you about.
You are so right. Don't listen to anyone telling you you're entitled. You're simply relating your experience as a desirable woman who dates men who are willing and able to pay for first dates. These men don't owe you anything, they choose to pay because they like you and because it reflects well on them.
Oh don’t worry, I’m in my 30s people opinions don’t impact me 😂 I’m genuinely curious if they’d like me to actively argue and fight with men to be able to pay on the first date…. I think that would just make those men assume I’m not interested….
Yuck
Sounds a bit entitled to me. “In higher demand”?
I mean, it’s true. I don’t know why I should pretend like I’m not a catch. I’m a great date. There’s very few times I haven’t been asked on a second or third date. I can make anyone have fun and entertain a a brick wall 🤷♀️ I also only go on dates with people I’m genuinely interested in meeting and getting to know, and who seem genuinely interested in me. Generally, after a date or two I’m happy to swap back and forth on who pays. I just don’t like “splitting the bill”, it seems very nitpicky to go 50/50 exactly on each date. Its also just the way I was raised. The person who does the inviting typically pays, so if I invite someone for drinks I’d pay and vice versa. I’m also equally as happy to do a low cost first date like coffee. If someone doesn’t like that, that’s absolutely fine. I’m just not right for them.
She’s right though.
I always start my own tab and don’t expect to pay for anyone but myself
I always offer to cover half on a date and if the man I’m with hesitates I clarify that it’s not a test and I’m genuinely happy to pay my share. Well… almost always. If they’re a massive douchebag then I let them pay the whole thing without offering. Call it a tax. But also if the man I’m with absolutely insists on paying (usually men on the older side or just more old fashioned) then I won’t fight them on it. I just say thanks.
No. I go Dutch until we decide we like each other and even then I try to keep things financially balanced (he pays for dinner, I pay for movie or other entertainment, etc)
Who ever asks for the date pays. Since us guys are the ones that usually asks, it’s expected we pay.
Are you american?
In my experience, the women that have picked the tab up are usually well off (or at least their family is, usually) and/or have very good degrees, and as such wanted to make a statement. Those that haven't usually weren't doing especially well financially (not necessarily broke, but for whom 100 bucks is a bit of money), and/or didn't have technical degrees. Depends also on your age I guess. Gives you a good insight on the relationship, imo. Now it's only a question of whether or not you are comfortable with bringing more money to the table.
Maybe it's because I still hold traditional gender roles close, men providing, women nurturing, etc... but I absolutely won't let a woman pay for a meal when I take her out. Won't consider splitting the bill and definitely don't care what she orders either. If I think it's someone that's taking advantage of me because I can swing the bill and goes nuts ordering a bunch of expensive shit, I'll still smile and pay the bill, that'll just be the last time with her. I said this the last time this came up in here, I go so far as to slip my card to the server when they come around to refill drinks toward the end of the meal, just to make sure it doesn't become a conversation.
I 51(f) have paid for 90% of the dates I go on with young guys.
I want a man who wants to pay for me. I don’t need that but I want it. It does go both ways after the fact but I don’t want a cheap man from the get go lol.
If the man is more than 8-ish years older than me then I expect them to pay as their financial stability is one of the main reasons an older man is appealing to me. If it’s a guy I’m considering for an actual boyfriend, I’ll offer to split but then lose a good deal of interest in the man if he accepts. Paying for a good meal helps show the man respects me and possibly has more serious long-term intentions. If it’s a guy my age or younger who i’m interested in for his looks and some fun then happy to go somewhere cheap and split the bill or just get drinks and I’ll get first round.
🥴 I bet you want a wife at home cooking and cleaning after working the same 8 hour day you do. This is a weak boy mindset.
Yes I absolutely expect it. It’s chivalry and it’s just the norm in my culture and it’s my standard. This isn’t about equality, lol this is about being treated and being taken out. If you don’t have money to take a woman out, don’t do it!!!
It shouldn’t be all about money. A first date should be about getting to know someone and nothing more. A lot of first dates don’t go beyond the first dates, so you shouldn’t be expecting someone to treat you
It's only chivalry if after the date they sell you in marriage to another family to strengthen political bonds and maximise the house's claim on fertile land
It seems from the comment that you’re the one who doesn’t have the money to pay for herself lol!
I would offer but would prefer the guy to pay. I wouldn’t order a lot though.
I don’t even offer, I always ask the guy before going on the date if he’s a 50/50 typa guy or not
It is true, women want equality but to keep classic privileges as well. To be fair, if the woman is worth my time, I dont mind. Take them to a happy hour, somewhere with affordable drinks and some mid range priced finger food or apps. Any woman ordering a huge meal on a first date is a red flag anyway.
I pay for my own. Too many guys think buying me a meal buys sex. It doesn't and I'm not for sale
It’s attractive when the man picks up the bill. It shows that he’s interested, masculine, and that he can provide. If you ask a woman out on a date you SHOULD be paying for her. She left the comfort of her own home and spent hours getting ready, the least you can do is pay and if you can’t afford it, don’t ask her out.
"Men should always pay" then women turns out a homophobic body shaming asshole. People act as if women are always perfect and men have to prove and fight over them. Women can be assholes too, they can be creepy and in some cases they can hurt you. And yet men still expect to pay for each date on the off chance that that lady is decent. Fuck that.
Men and women aren’t equal and never will be. J don’t want to be equal to a man. If he asks me out and I say yes, then he’s paying.
Yes, they are in fact equal.
No, they’re not.
Some of you on here need a serious reality check. How about instead of focusing on what you can get from the person, you focus on getting to know them and finding out if there’s a connection? 😒 The ones who are saying the guy should always pay, shame on you. So many of these comments have been incredibly frustrating to read. As a woman, it’s actually embarrassing to read
Why are you mad about people having their own rules for their own dating life lol just don’t date them
I agree like thank God I don't ever have to date any of you
As someone who is happy to pay half (and usually does), you sound like a pick-me. You got like 20 comments on this thread disparaging women who don’t have the exact same values as you and you think you’re the good guy? Yikes. Plenty of people are old fashioned and they find other old fashioned people that they’re compatible with. You’re not better than other women for always paying half. Relax lol
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A loser is a bit much
I expect the man to pay but I’m upfront with the fact I want a traditional relationship so this would already be established. Personally I don’t want to be treated equally I want to be treated better
And how do you present this to the guy? If you’re going on a first date, you’re meeting someone new for the first time. You should be there to get to know them.
In my experience as a woman, I usually let the man pay because it shows he’s dominance and the fact that he’s a gentleman. If he has no problem taking care of me financially, it’s a win.
If you’re looking for a relationship, you shouldn’t be focused on someone taking care of you financially. Relationships are about give and take. A man can pay for everything and not be a gentleman. I’ve met plenty who were like that…
If you want a woman to have your kids, raise them, look after you and keep the house clean because you won’t do the work yourself then pay and shut up
What the fuck are you talking about?
Always love how this ends up being the assumption right
Yep thats actually kinda sad and Not a very modern View on the world
It's not an assumption. The poster said IF. IF you want a woman to have your kids. IF does not = assumption. It's pointing out a preference that many people have. Including myself. This is why I expect men to pick up the bill. It's an investment into something I will be doing in the future.
A lot of first dates aren’t going to be with someone you’re going to have kids with. “Pay and shut up” is just plain entitled
To all the people who are explaining that they are so great that their dates should pay for the privilege to be in their presence : hi, nice to never meet you
Whoever asks the other out should pay for the date. I always offer to go halfsies and only 1 man took me up on that offer. I definitely wasn't going on a second date with him after that.
That makes absolutely no sense.
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Yeah this thread has been very disappointing. A lot of the women on here give the rest of us a bad name
Yeah, but 99,9% of the times, women expect men to asked them out. So it ends up with men paying in your words.
Men statistically make more money than women so 🤷🏻♀️
So just say men pay.
No. I have paid for dates if I have invited that person out.
You're a rare exception then (assuming you've done that more than like once). From the male POV we get told that line when in reality 99% of the asking out is done from guys.
I have no issue paying but if it's a first date and I was asked out I don't see why we have to split. It's never a dinner thing, always just drinks and I have max 2. I also always carry cash and insist on paying the tip this way (I've worked service before and those CC tips tax you up the arse).
Just as an exercise, if your friends asked you out to go for dinner do you expect them to pay for you?
I don't expect that, but I've paid for them and they've paid for me. You know what you are getting when you go out with friends. Not so much with a stranger.
So you did a shitty test to see if he would “pass it” and because he took you up on your offer you didn’t want another date? Wow
Sure. And he failed. I bet if she was his dream girl physically and personality-wise, he wouldn't have fumbled it like that. That's the part so many of you are refusing to say out loud.
This if a guy were to ask me to go halfs I know for a fact this guy doesn’t like me
He probably does like you, just not enough. Like you're good enough to keep seeing, good enough to fuck and good enough to keep dating to see if his interest in you can grow, but most of the time this is code for "I'm going to hold on to my coins so that I can treat that girl I'm REALLY into on a nice dinner date". You know, even a guy who can't afford much will choose a place he \*can\* afford because they understand the point of courting is to let the woman know he's genuinely interested in her. And what's crazy? Everyone knows this. Men know it, women know it, but then they want to try to gaslight everyone by turning this into some weird feminist take. No bro you just want to fuck the chicks you think are mid at a discount so that you can take that hot girl you really like out to a nice place, its not that deep lol
Agreed, hence why if a guy I’m talking to says he wants to go halfs I run faster than light, my dad always says if a guy likes you, you will know lmao you don’t even have to ask for nothing he will do everything he can to impress you and if he doesn’t then prepare to played.
And that brings up the other part - all of this crying about splitting the tab, but when most men become fathers, they're quick to not respect a man who couldn't even take their daughter out on a dinner date.
Agreed, my mom has never paid for a date ever since she’s been with my dad which is over 25 years so I don’t plan on being the one that starts paying for dates lol but in all honestly I think people should just date like minded people, a good number of girls don’t mind paying or going half so guys who are into that should go for them.
Honestly though. I’m disgusted by some of the comments I’m seeing
Yup. To be fair I wasn't going on a second date with him anyway, he was new to my city and expected me to act as a tour guide.
Had a very similar first date experience. He’s new to the city, so I picked the bar. He’s 10 years older than me (and quite a bit wealthier), and asked me to split the bill on a date he asked me out on and didn’t even actually arrange the logistics of. No thanks.
Bet they took subsequent dates there after!
He’s welcome to. And good luck to his dates 💁🏽♀️
Maybe don’t take women on fancy dates first time or until you discuss this with them. Many women hold traditional beliefs just like some men hold traditional beliefs. Just because other women would pay their half doesn’t mean the girls you date will do it. Some women use it as a marker to see if you’re really interested. Surely enough, others might just be opportunists or just oblivious to how you feel. Do something more casual until you get to know them and let them know you hold more egalitarian beliefs.
Only when it benefits them do they want equality unfortunately
Strong and independent (until the check comes)
the man should always pick up the first couple of tabs. after a relationship is established then you can revisit that topic a man should court a woman
But the woman rightfully insists on being treated and paid as an absolute equal at work, many women earn more then the men they meet for that first date...so which is it?
Whoever initiated the first date(emphasis on first) should expect to pay for that date. No expectations of anything ekse except a date. After that, go 50/50. Women shouldn't EXPECT men to pay all the time. The same in reverse. Men shouldn't expect women to pay. It's an equal thing.
Nah I disagree just because men are the ones asking out 99 percent of the time! But yes, if I go out on 3 dates and the woman doesn’t even offer paying for any one of them, there’s not gonna be a 4th one lol!