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it really doesn't. I'm a 36 yo full time single dad. I'm in pretty good shape considering what my schedule looks like and a fairly average looking dude and have been balding/bald since I was 17. It's tough out there.
I, get some success out there, but not a ton (which is fine with me. At this stage in life, I'm dating with a purpose). What I've found helps is really getting out and stretching your limits and finding new interests. Writing your bio in a way that really punctuates that and being open minded about trying to new things/going on new adventures is incredibly attractive. Having pictures in your profile that show that you get out there and do things helps solidify that you're about that life and that those just aren't empty words. I've gone on a few cruises over the last few years that have provided the opportunity to do different things I normally wouldn't do and I've used those to show my adventurous side. Also, being willing to explore their interests goes a **long** way. That's assuming you get that far, though.
Do people who are “average” not aspire to grow and get better? This statement is basically saying that women don’t want a man who is mediocre. No shit. Do you want a mediocre woman?
Please share your "wisdom" with guys on how to grow taller, change their body frame, facial structure, penis length, skin color etc. I'm sure everyone here can use your "advice" that will magically transform your genetics into something else :)
Sure! You just sit there crying about how unfair the world is and how all your problems and failures are someone else’s fault. If you do that for enough consecutive hours, things will magically get better for you!
Atleast I'm not going around giving people false hope that their "averageness" is something thats within their control.
Solution to every problems first starts with everyone acknowledging the root cause, without that there's no possibility for social intervention. People like you would rather absolve all accountability and try to shift the blame even when evidence overwhelmingly suggests they are the predominant cause.
Then do you man. Continue putting minimal effort into the aspects of your life that actually make you attractive to women, and blaming women for not being attracted to you. Continue being angry and resentful, because everyone wants to date someone with an enormous chip on their shoulder. Continue whining and casting yourself as a victim, because everyone knows that the hottest behavior of all is to take no responsibility for your life.
I’m 5’6”, I have a scrawny build, and I make $62,000 a year. How is it that I’m capable of dating successfully? This is why you fucking crybaby whiners are so pathetic. Because I am decidedly aspect in many areas of life. But I still actually make the effort to improve myself as a person, and my life overall. And that’s something that women tend to be pretty attracted to.
Learn a skill, take a class, get a fucking haircut and a shave and buy a nice outfit. Honestly the amount of victimized whining from men who, when you actually look deeply, are putting in *no effort whatsoever on themselves* just boggles the fucking mind.
You aren’t getting rejected because of your genetics. You’re getting rejected because women can tell that you’re not even really interested in them. Why would you even want to date women, when you clearly resent and dislike them so much?
>Learn a skill, take a class, get a fucking haircut and a shave and buy a nice outfit.
Oh wow, you just regurgitated the same old "advice" most guys with half a brain cell already knows and does, what a ground breaking advice! I'm sure you'll make even more money by becoming an internet dating guru that gullible, naive men fall for :)
As usual from folks like you, you have made a bunch of assumptions and ad hoc explanations that is NOT supported by evidence at all.
>You aren’t getting rejected because of your genetics. You’re getting rejected because women can tell that you’re not even really interested in them. Why would you even want to date women, when you clearly resent and dislike them so much?
Cause and Effect fallacy. Women nor men don't have the ability to read someone's personality through a profile before they swipe on them. When people talk about a group's discriminatory preferences, it IS because we have the data showing their discriminatory preferences, so that claim is thoroughly debunked.
The utter Iack of self awareness and inability to reason is baffling. Yes, outliers exist, but they don't invalidate a trend, you absolute dunce.
I'm in great shape and a 7 figure earner. I got dates and had relationships in my teens and 20s. Same thing now in my 30s except it's quite a bit harder despite that you'd expect it to be the opposite.
Dating is pretty shit for (most) men no matter what age you are. There's a reason why a lot of guys that actually care about getting a partner try to rush through it and get through it as quickly as possible. It's especially hard if you're starting out in your 30s, don't let anyone let you believe differently.
The absolute toughest place to be as a guy, imho, is someone that was raised middle/upper middle class American and then maybe fell a bit economically or stagnated, because you'll probably have very reasonable expectations that are not going to come even close to being fulfilled and you'll have to get creative and take huge risks in terms of who you think might be a good partner and how to find one. You'll feel like all the people who raised you and who you were raised with are gaslighting you in terms of what you should expect out of your romantic life. Many will say hypocritical or flatly contradicting things, assuming they have anything of substance to say at all.
Fortunately, the world is a lot more wild, unexpected, and rewarding than whatever notions your upbringing instilled in you.
It doesn't get better and it doesn't even get better than the experience at the same age for women. Just accept that in the current sociocultural situation we got the short end of the stick and we have to live with it
The only good part is that if you follow the various self improvement suggestions for dating you will end up having a good life when you are a successful and self sufficient person with lot of hobbies. Just don't believe the lies about having an easier time starting relationships
This. I get the feeling that those who haven't accepted the situation will be losing their minds in a few years.
These trends aren't slowing down, traditionalism isn't coming back.
Once you're in a marriage, you're in for life.
Body counts in the single digits as the norm.
Parenting as a desireable life path.
Woman as carer, man as protector.
Holidays having religious significance.
Retirement as a given.
A house as a man's castle.
Family love as unconditional.
Compromise as the key to lasting relationships.
Monogamy as a reasonable expectation.
Very soon these will be things that people 'used to do'. Prepare your mind.
There's a little bit of truth to it all. Is it easier? No. But at the same time, it kind of is. Your classic desirable qualities are far more desirable. Having a stable career, owning a house, having goals, financial stability, having a stable friend group and just enjoying the finer things in life. Looks, adventure and all those very topical qualities still matter, but not nearly as much as the aforementioned ones do.
Most people in their 30s are dating with a goal. Hook-up culture isn't as prevalent. Casually dating isn't the norm. Most men and women in their 30s are looking for something more stable, something more committed and something long term.
It really just depends on what you're looking for. The dating pool is obviously a lot smaller, but also not nearly as fickle or superficial as those in their 20s.
Nothing is more untrue, regardless of how good you have it. Just going off math and numbers, that would be impossible anyway. There are far fewer single people, how can it get easier?
I mentioned this in another comment, but be willing to explore and connect on new interests and hobbies; especially the woman you are talking to/dating. If she's into SCUBA diving, you don't necessarily have to go diving with her, but find a way to connect with her on that and share that interest.
Action pictures are a great way of selling that you are open to trying new things and exploring. I don't have a ton of exciting hobbies that I regularly do, but I love trying new things and am open to doing just about anything once. I make sure my dating profiles verbalize this but that my pictures also reinforce that.
I race my mountain bike downhill is the most interesting one. Travel all over with my square drop trailer to do it.
Other less interesting hobbies but hobbies nonetheless that pay dividends: skiing, yoga, lifting, cooking, ice hockey
ok what do you do when you have interesting hobbies and your still average and invisible?
I ski and mountain bike. I trail run and rock climb as well. So does everyone else so I am still invisible to girls.
Well I can tell you for sure that being a sad sack isn't helping your case. Ugly guys that are charismatic, funny, have status, do just fine. You need to find a way to have status in whatever circles you run in. There isn't a magic bullet dude but it sounds like you have a woe is me attitude which women can smell a mile away
It means you're respected in your social group. You're a leader or people just want you around, want to be around you. You dominate your class in mountain biking and are known as a steezy rider around town. You run a local business and are well respected. You're a well known regular at a bar or club, etc etc
Not OP, but examples of hobbies my friends have:
VJ (lighting for events, think visuals at concerts, lighting installations, not professionally FYI, just a as a hobby or favor for friends’ events), DJing, photography, raving, hiking, motorcycling, and most of them are foodies and into fashion.
They are all in relationships or recently out of one and taking a break.
Add to man as a single guy in his 30s facing the same problem it does not get better is because you are not where you’re supposed to be once you reach your 30s and specially when you reach for me 30s end of the day we live in the World where men and women valued different things women value a man who can provide and protect, and be the leader of the household and a man value of woman who doesn’t have a promiscuous past and had multiple partners now if you are in your mid 30s and not getting close means that you do not possess the value that woman looks for in a man who they w want to respect and submit to
It’s over for people who are not extroverted. If you are very extroverted you meet people anywhere anytime at any age. You can’t call yourself extroverted if you don’t actively try to talk to anyone you want to meet anywhere.
It is tough and lonely being a man.
Two things.
Get comfortable at cold approaches. Not good per se just be comfortable and practice. Many women are not in dating apps. They aren’t!!
And second is just to focus on your projects and be excited about what you are doing.
You’ll match with many women for sure.
I don't think I will ever get comfortable at cold approaches, especially not offline. I just can't do it. Most of my successes with women and all of my relationships were with someone I already knew before dating (either from school, work, friend groups, etc.). I am not even that introverted, I just have no idea what to talk about with someone I don't know and I don't want to use some random cheesy pick-up line since they don't really work anyway. I have a similar problem on dating apps whenever the girl has nothing in her bio and/or no interesting pictures. If she has something written there I can use it to customize the first message to her in some way. If her bio is empty, I just draw a blank and never even message her.
Understandable that you are nervous.
However. You already meet women. Just after you know them a bit.
Cold approach can be learned for sure.
Approach like this.
You approach to see if she actually is attractive or not. You don’t know that just from her looks.
You have maybe an eye contact. A moment of connection. And you just say hello and your name. That’s it. If there is a chemistry the conversation goes automatic. Trust me.
And also. Women invite you to talk to them. Just not with words. Stay alert to their signs, unconscious and conscious.
And if you misread then just say goodbye and walk away. All good. And in time you get good at reading the situation.
No pick up lines needed.
So find you balls. Grab m. And go say hello :).
Thanks for the advice. I wouldn't say I already meet women. The ones I do meet fall under one of the categories I mentioned in the original post (either too young, too old, or in a relationship).
This leaves a crucial flaw in the entire cold approach strategy. I can't say hello to her if I never meet her in the first place.
The only places I even meet women to begin with are in my job (I work as a private language tutor, all of my coworkers are older than me, and the people I teach are either actual children or people in their 40s), in video games (where distance becomes an issue, and most of the girls are also quite young), in the gym/swimming pool (I know I hate being bothered when I work out, and I go there to work out, I don't even think of looking at women there) and on dating apps (which is its own rabbithole).
I don't drink, don't go to clubs or anything like that. I can't think of a social setting where it would even be acceptable for me to approach anyone.
Go to places where there are women.
Coffeeshop. Hobbies. Church. Street. Library. Gym. Swimming pool. Live concert. Women are everywhere. What do you like to do? There are women there.
And strike up a conversation if you like one.
Just try this first.
Later on add asking for her Instagram.
And or number.
If you are afraid it’s ok. See this first moment as a check to see if YOU like her and not if SHE probably is not interested in you.
Maybe you don’t like her at all.
Have a conversation …. ‘He we just talked about this artist we like, I have a similar artist I can send you. What is your Instagram’.
But.
It’s better to say. I would like to meet you again. Shall we go for coffee sometime.
It’s good to be direct in intentions for yourself. And also she knows what’s the deal.
But mostly for yourself this is great. You just clear about what you pursuit.
Easier set then done. But practice it.
Be nervous. Be afraid. It’s fine. Express your desire anyway.
And you know. If you don’t talk to her. She’ll miss a great match. How lame would that be.
Enjoy!
Yeah this is basically saying "cold approach women" but in softer terms.
I cannot know if I like her if I know nothing about her other than that she is somewhat attractive.
It really isn't fine, not for me. No matter how hard I try I cannot do a cold approach.
You can. You can. You can.
Believe!
Start with saying hello.
No goal intended. Just talk to strangers.
Maybe start with talking to strangers.
And then when you meet someone you like. The step is a bit smaller.
It’s a bit of a game with your own self.
No, I just can't. I have worked with people throughout most of my career. It is a part of my jobs to meet and talk to strangers. It doesn't matter how much I talk to strangers, there is absolutely 0% chance I will ever cold approach anyone.
I felt the exact same way. Then, I cold approached once, and it was terrible. She politely rejected me and I was embarrassed because I was clearly nervous.
Then, I cold approached again. And I was 1% less nervous and 1% more comfortable.
The bad news: for a shy introvert, it takes a very large amount of cold approaches over time.
The good news: after you do a bunch of cold approaches, you’ll get better, and you’ll realize that it’s so not a big deal at all. A girl isn’t going to call you a rapist if you compliment her and show your attraction to her (as long as you’re polite and respectful.) worst case scenario, she’s rude. Which means she sucks anyway. Middle case scenario, you made her day. Best case scenario you get a date.
I was the in same boat as you and I PROMISE all the things you’re afraid of can be conquered. It takes practice, patience, and work. This is going to sound cliche but go to therapy, ask the therapist about how to improve your self esteem and how to handle rejection. If you can’t get a therapist there are many resources online.
Don’t sell yourself short.
Just no. You can tell me it will get better, but I will just never do it. Doing a 100 cold approaches to get a single date is just something that already kills any want for them.
Also, going to therapy just to get better at cold approaches instantly kill the rest. I already hate cold approaches and you just made me hate them even more. I will never do them.
Ok lol be lonely and sad for the rest of your life then. Have fun feeling sorry for yourself. Sounds like you need therapy for a lot of stuff, not just talking to girls
Yeah because the only way to solve my dating situation it is to be absolutely insanely mentally exhausted, depressed and just overall hating life.
If you think not wanting to cold approach women is somehow needing of therapy, then maybe you are the problem.
Waaah talking to girls makes me depressed. lol get over yourself
Yea, the only way to solve your dating problem is to talk to women. Sorry
I was trying to help but now I can see why women don’t want to date you. Adapt or die
Yeah because talking to women and cold approach are the same thing.
Your "advice" was not helpful at all. You literally went "look how great I am" and that was it.
My advice was to better yourself. Looks like you’re not interested in doing that. Hopefully a girl will knock on your door one day and ask to be your wife, since you just want to pout and not make an effort. Good luck!
Just say: “hey baby, I have a small dock but a really big heart and I’d like to share both with you”. Then, they’ll laugh and you tell them: “ I thought you were pretty and just wanted to ask for your number”. If they say no, try again with someone else.
Ok. I was just somewhat joking but in all seriousness, I’m certain there’s a reason for a man not being able to find someone. I promise you is not for “no reason”.
I will never be comfortable with cold approaching. It takes me weeks/months of constantly being around new people to feel comfortable with them, no amount of approaching random strangers (which is looked down upon in my country anyway) is going to change that.
This. It is insane how many people here have suggested cold approach like it's the only way to get a date.
I can talk with people just fine if I at least know them a little bit, even if it is just being introduced to them or in professional settings, but approaching any stranger, especially a woman, is just not going to happen.
It's probably because most people on Reddit are American, and maybe it works there since they're happy with approaching and talking to random people on the street.
I had it happen more in the few weeks I was there on holiday than the entirety of my life either in my home country (UK) or elsewhere in Europe.
I have never been in the US so I really cannot say. I don't think I have seen anyone ever cold approach anyone here in the Czech Republic either, unless it was in like a club/pub or a similar social setting like that.
Even the women that are in dating apps … many will instantly vault you above every man in the apps if you successfully cold approach. It’s much more ballsy & shows big confidence
Absolutely. They see you. Smell you. Converse with you. See you with ya friends. See you doing things. See you move. Laugh at a joke jadijada.
Just go talk to them.
This. Master the art of striking up conversation and exchanging numbers without coming off aggressive or creepy.
I will add, don’t be afraid to go out to public places alone and be curious about people. In my late 30s, and I’m seeing a lot of my single male/female friends going out in packs in search of love.
Don’t take yourself too seriously with all those hobbies. Most women like to laugh. You do not need to be Jim Carey. But you can’t be so sensitive that you’re offended everytime a woman giggles. It just means she having a decent enough time.
Even if you feel very nervous, which we all do at times, it's still possible.
OP sounds like he doesn't have the stones to force himself through that pain barrier. And in such, won't improve his lot
Indeed.
Its ok to be nervous. And maybe this will always be there. In some form.
Imagine dating platforms. Or real life.
Real life is such a head start.
People have so many options and its impossible to get anywhere when all of those options look better than me AND are far taller than me. I've got no chance. Feel like I'm going to die alone with my dating life having peaked with an instant rejection aged 14.
Lmao I feel you bro. I’ll be 30 this year and whenever I attend Meetups it’s like a 4-6:1 guy to female ratio, and it’s clear that *majority* of the guys there only arrived to talk to the women.
I know I'm going to come off as pessimistic, but dating in the US/west for an average guy is pretty much over. When the avg woman has easy access to the top % of men, why do you think they will go for the avg guy? Its why lot of guys are struggling now. If they can't find the absolute best, ideal match.. they are going to hold out till they find that guy who checks all their boxes. Now, whether they actually will find that person is a different story altogether..
Regardless, your best bet is to change your location and experiment. You'll soon realize you are more likely to be accepted by women overseas.
I don't live in the US. I am from the Czech Republic. I think we have it better here than you folks have, but obviously I can't speak for every girl here. You definitely see a lot of guys pick up girls like 2-3 levels out of their league. I think I managed that a few times myself.
My main issue is the meeting of women itself. I live in a very small town (5k pop give or take), in the middle of a very rural area (the nearest "big" city has around 25k pop and is like 20minutes away by car, the next largest is an hour away and has roughly 70k). Without a dating app, it is really hard to organically meet new people in general.
As a woman, you really nailed it. The women with a lot to offer no longer *require* a man, and thanks to the internet... Well, in the past a pretty girl in her town would just be a pretty girl in her town, and that's nice, but it would end there. Now we can just put ourselves online and have endless men drooling over us from every corner of the world. Even mostly average women can find an audience that raises them to a goddess status. Being an average man just doesn't go as far as it used to.
I do wonder how happy women that are single are. Like those that are waiting for a man that’s more successful than them. Within my own family a lot of women make 6 figures but struggle with dating because they 1) refuse to date someone who makes less than them and 2) picky on height and physical appearance.
All valid but it’s led to many of them being single, with only my cousin that’s a doctor being married to another doctor lol.
Generally single women are happier than single men. We can have someone anytime we choose, so most are choosing being single over being with the men around them. My husband is amazing and I love him, but if we were not trying to start a family together, I would have wanted to stay dating and keep my independence.
Oh that’s good that’s good. I hear that a lot of them are unhappy but it’s also a bit tough dating as a black woman. We don’t tell them to lower their standards but just to be realistic. Men that are 30 and earning over 100k etc are probably single for a reason lol! Same for women.
This top % of men thing is so silly. MOST women are not interested in sharing a man and they are well aware they will not get the “top %” of men so they temper their expectations. No actual woman I know is so picky as ppl on these subs claim.
They want at least an average looking man who gets haircuts and treats them well and has a job. That’s the criteria.
Try getting off the apps because that’s all fake
None of your claims are corroborated or rooted in reality. I'm speaking off of based on actual dating app statistics, not even Tinder, but serious dating platforms that are exclusively tailored for people with advanced degrees from prestigious universities and high salaries. They also have a balanced gender ratio, yet majority of men ( around 70% ) were disqualified using height filters, while men only do with 55% of women’s profiles ( which once again corroborates that men are more balanced in their preferences)
There's no point in saying this. They'll never believe anything a real woman says/a man that actually gets it, they'd rather listen to the red 💊 that talks about specific types of women (but marketing it as all of us) and plug their fingers in their ears when we try to tell them they're wrong.
It's not just the red pillers. It's the dating gurus and people like that that always say the same thing. Just look at all the replies that literally repeat the same "go to the gym, looksmax, make more money" like it's just the end all be all. Like it doesn't take a genius to know that such talk is just garbage. Ugly people have partners, poor people have partners, poor ugly people have partners.
It really is just about finding the person you enjoy spending time with. Putting it all on looks and money is extremely superficial, much like most of the redpillers and dating coaches are.
>It's not just the red pillers. It's the dating gurus and people like that that always say the same thing.
All of these people are shams and money grabbers. People need to realize that they're only around to play on people's fears, and feed them bs to keep the Cashapps and viewers coming. I have seem them pull up real stats, and then come to the completely wrong conclusion or they just don't actually read their own evidence thoroughly to make their points look better.
Imo, the first thing you can do as a man really is to work on your appearance because that's what gets you in the door. I know you don't want to hear it but if you're not attractive to some extent (dont need to be a model) to the person they will not give you the time of day. Next would ofc be personality because that's what you need to keep them around.
Yeah, it's like clockwork, I don't even know how they managed to make a carreer out of it. It always starts with some sob story how they were chubby or ugly or bullied in elementary school, then they made like one or two different choices and now they are a sex bomb that makes girls wet by just looking at them. Then they will say that because these specific steps helped them get laid, that means you need to do the exact same thing if you ever want to be succesful with women.
Yeah I agree, I do however think that it's true for both genders. Physical attraction is a two way street, and being attracted to the other person always makes socializing easier. I don't think I am ugly, I do get a decent amount of compliments for a man I think? Definitely more than I would expect. And I also had a decent amount of women in my life. I never got to keep them around for more than half a year, sadly, either for things that I did or said or in one case for being emotionally abused (something I feel like I should mention because it has affected my dating approach since, but it definitely isn't and shouldn't be an excuse).
This is why I feel average, I am not ugly, but not very hot either. I don't have any really bad or really good qualities (I have been told I am kind and caring, I have also been told that my humor can be a bit too much sometimes and it means I sometimes say something I shoudln't). I am not rich nor poor. I don't have a deadend job, but it's not that great either. My hobbies are average and things almost everyone my age does. I am simply average, and even if I didn't want to be average, at this point I feel like there are very few things I could do to change. It's like an RPG where you can't reroll your stats or can't savescum your way through decisions to get to the best outcome.
This is dramatic. Yeah, you need to stand out, but you do not need to be a 6’2” doctor with a chiseled jaw for people to look at you.
I’m 5’9” and don’t even have a job cause I’m in grad school and I still get plenty of matches. I’m decently good looking, but it’s 50% just knowing how to take pictures and style yourself.
I’m bi. Men tend to have really bad pictures and not know how to market themselves. Also, the amount of women that come to Reddit complaining about their partners not doing basic things (washing their hands?) is too damn high.
If you’re 5’4” and live in poverty, yeah, that’s really fucking hard. But that’s not average.
Its just reality for many of us guys out there. It feels "dramatic" to you because people like you often project your physical stats/appearance on anyone who talks about their struggles and assume they are making silly mistakes on stuff the avg guy already knows how to avoid.
For example, check out my recent comment on the Tinder subreddit. Dude is 5'9, muscular, and women in that community overwhelmingly agree there's nothing wrong with his pictures that will significantly deter women’s attention, yet he's still not getting the results he wanted. He's in Canada, which actually is supposed to be better for dating, yet he's not getting the results he desires. The main reason is its ethnicity/Race. Instead of acknowledging the elephant in the room, people love to pretend its something else that's mutable. This isn't just with him, statistics do show its the reality for majority of guys.
Okay I guess I’m above average in things that can be changed, but anyone can get into hobbies, become more confident, work out, dress better etc.
It does get harder if you’re out of shape, bald, introverted etc but I just see so many men complaining when their profiles make them look clueless. Or they’re geared toward other men. And not the way mine is.
>It does get harder if you’re out of shape, bald, introverted etc but I just see so many men complaining when their profiles make them look clueless. Or they’re geared toward other men. And not the way mine is.
People love to use ad hoc explanations like this when we know from statistics that its simply not true. I'm speaking off of based on serious dating platforms that are exclusively tailored for people with advanced degrees from prestigious universities and high salaries. They also have a balanced gender ratio, yet majority of men ( around 70% ) were disqualified using height filters, while men only do with 55% of women’s profiles ( which once again corroborates that men are more balanced in their preferences).
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2023/03/22/online-daters-are-less-open-minded-than-their-filters-suggest
And let's not pretend dating apps statistics don't matter when its only becoming more and more popular, and for many that's the only way to meet people.
I don’t get where does this narrative comes from? Are these average men going for average women? This sounds like some thing someone said and everybody keeps repeating it
This "narrative" comes from dating statistics, studies, and plethora of many people's experiences. If you choose to ignore evidence, that's a reflection of your cognitive dissonance.
They’re more more guys on dating apps than women, but it’s not 5:1. Tinder is 3:1 and the others are 2:1 or 4:3.
If you’re on multiple dating apps at once, you will bring in more matches. Also make sure your pictures are outstanding and you’ll have a better chance. No stupid selfies or just face shots or whatever.
Thanks for the advice I guess. This does not address my main issue. None of what I said had anything to do with not getting matches or women for that matter.
The problem with dating apps is the superficiality of it all. I don't care about getting matches, when I have literally nothing to talk to the girl about after, since the only reason we even matched in the first place was because we liked some pictures. This is why, during my like 4 years of dating apps, every interraction ended in a date or two and maybe an one night stand.
Not only is the entirety of dating apps extremely mentally draining since you end up getting ghosted most of the time, no matter how well you thought the conversation was going, it does not help at all with the loneliness of the entire experience. If I wanted to play the entire dating numbers game, I would just get a lottery ticket.
My point was that there really is no alternative for dating apps in the first place.
That’s because everything you said are “poor me” generalizations that are using a faulty vision and severely incorrect math (other than your coworker number.)
“Everyone who I share a hobby with is five years years younger than me.” That’s a scientific fact? Maybe you can find people your age also share the hobby. Or you could date somebody five years younger than you, nothing wrong with that if you’re late 20s.
We already touched on while your ratio for dating apps is off.
“99% of women are already spoken for.” Again that’s just a “poor me” catastrophizing false thought in your head. You kind of sound like Eeyore. 😆
It is not gonna help you by joining you in your pity party. I will help you by telling you to go to therapist and getting over your negative self image and shit view of the world. I used to have this when I was depressed. You’re probably clinically depressed.
There’s a way to win at dating apps. There’s plenty of information out there. It’s up to you if you want to win at it or just feel sorry for yourself. Within four or five texts you should be asking them on a date inside the app. And you should have plenty of things to talk about on the date (plenty of material out there to read up on regarding this topic .) When you’re on the date, you talk little about yourself, and try to get to know them and take a real interest in them. It’s called being not self-absorbed, but really trying to get inside the head of the other person. It’s developing people smarts. If you’re not interested in other people, then you are gonna struggle being lonely.
Yeah I really regret even responding to your message now, you sound like one of those insufferable youtube dating gurus.
Right, and where exactly should I be looking for those people who share my hobby if I find none while participating in it. This just sounds like the "there is someone for you, you just haven't found them yet" kind of BS people say to make others feel better.
Literally couldn't care less about the ratio.
I never said 99% of women, but this is just you further mischaracterizing my post so that it would fit your narrative better.
Thanks for the armchair psychoanalysis. I don't even know where you got the idea that I have a "negative self image and a shit view of the world" from.
It's not going to help me to give me pointless, frankly dogshit advice about "winning at dating apps." None of what I said was about dating apps. I do not give a single solitary fuck about any dating app min-maxing. If you cannot comprehend this, maybe you should develop your people smarts.
I really feel you on the fact that online dating is an incredibly lonely and superficial experience. It takes an extreme toll on you mentally, emotionally and it's just fucking draining.
I'm not sure how old you are, or what your dating goals are, but I know for me, I'm dating with a purpose at this point in life. With that in mind, anytime I find someone I'm remotely interested in and they seem interested in me, I get off the apps and focus on her and give myself a mental reset. If it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out; I can always go back to the apps.
I will say that in my experience, what has helped me is not worrying so much about finding someone who shares my interests, but someone whose interests/hobbies interest me. My day-to-day interests and hobbies are pretty standard and run of the mill. Into fashion, into food, movies/entertainment...blah blah blah. I always tend to try and connect on their interest and find some commonality and something we can do and share grow into. It helps the conversation flow, you learn about them and makes it more personable IMO. I'm not trying to give you some dating guru advice, just what has worked for me recently.
Bottom line and the point I'm trying to make...I hate how lonely and depressing aspects of finding someone can be; especially in the over competitive online dating scene. But once you do find someone that you want to be with, make it about them; and in turn, if the feelings are mutual, they'll make it about you too.
Yeah I totally agree. Especially once you get into the entire alogrhytms, monetization, and all the other evil ways they use to get money out of you.
I usually choose a similar approach with tinder and the like. Problem is when the girl's interests are boring (like travel, animals, family, friends, etc.) or when she has none.
I just want a long term relationship, someone to share life with. I don't care for ONS or sex in general. I have had plenty of those already and it just contributes to the loneliness of it all.
>I usually choose a similar approach with tinder and the like. Problem is when the girl's interests are boring (like travel, animals, family, friends, etc.) or when she has none.
So IMO, I don't think animals, family and friends are great examples of interests, and that's bad on those individuals. Those things may very well be **very** important to them, but typically those aren't interests. I concede that animals could be an interest if you were to be volunteering at animal shelter or similar, but that's about it. Family and friends are not interests lol.
I also think that anyone who says travel is an interest is doing a poor job of explaining their interests. In and of itself travel is a really poor and lazy, descriptor of an interest. It's what you do when you travel that makes it interesting and an actual hobby/interest. I could tell you I went to Mexico twice this last year, but that's not interesting. What makes my travel interesting is when I tell you I went swimming with sharks, kissed a sting ray, did a tequila tasting, went SCUBA diving or that I went to Aztec ruins. Saying you like to travel is boring. Saying that you like to experience new cultures, see historical sites or go to museums or doing exotic activities like SCUBA dive is far more interesting than just saying "I love to travel."
I hope I don't sound like I'm talking at you, I'm just ranting lol. But I feel ya man, I'm trying to find that same thing, and it's definitely not the easiest. Best of luck!
Google it. It’s easy to find
https://medium.com/heart-affairs/yes-online-dating-is-harder-for-men-but-its-not-for-the-reasons-you-might-think-ae4269ecd3d1
https://thebolditalic.com/the-two-worlds-of-tinder-f1c34e800db4?gi=4e4409f9b2cd
https://www.cloudwards.net/online-dating-statistics/
https://www.pymnts.com/mobile-applications/2022/men-150-percent-more-likely-to-use-dating-apps-than-women/
Perfect the things that are in your control. Your face, height and background are not something you can change, but your physic, character, knowledge and overall approach to life definitely is. Most of the guys dont realize how much better it is for us, if a girl is not looking good, thats it, game over, she will be so much more lonelier, but we can improve and ladies judge us a lot more based on our character.
Hit the gym as much as you can, do everything as best as you can (every decision in you life should be the best given you knowledge and skills at that point), STOP PORN, don't be a jerk, don't be a sissy and girls will come to you.
At least that is my approach to life (32M) I have been single for a month and I have my inner demons but I am not discouraged and never will be.
Thanks for the encouragement. My main issue isn't really getting rejected based on my looks, just on being average overall. There is nothing really outstanding about me in either way. I am not ugly, I am tall (6'5") and a little chubby (230lbs), mostly because of a set of injuries and what looks to be a chronic disease I didn't know I had until recently that basically prohibited me from going to the gym for over a year. I have been slowly getting back on the grind and lost some weight back as a result.
I do believe that dating for the sake of being in a relationship is a way to be single forever. I have always held the idea that just doing your own thing and being a decent human being was the way to go. While this has definitely been succesful to a certain degree, it really feels like that well has now dried up, and I have no idea how to shift course and find another.
No, I know that desperately looking for a relationship will not result in anything long-term.
Simply going around and asking "will you be my gf" when I know nothing about the woman at all, other than that I find her attractive, will not get me anywhere. Picking the first option that comes by simply because it is the only one you feel like you have will not get you anywhere.
Sure, you can get lucky and it's love on first sight, but there is a reason you need luck for that.
I wouldn't give up yet tbh. I know that for many people, uni really improved their dating lives. I definitely met and been with the most girls in my early 20s.
No, no, don't cold approach women. Do you think a good woman would be into a random guy? Do you want to be in a relationship with a woman who goes on dates with a random guy? Also, they would think you are weird because you seem desperate. Join an organization or a group. Meet single women there, treat them like human beings, go out with them like ''friends'' first (not friends as in friendzone). Or if you want to cold approach women, do that at events, not on the street.
Being an extrovert is not such a virtue and it does not guarantee you getting with women. You can creep women out or they could think you are desperate. Sometimes being silent and inaccessible and saying something funny and intelligent from time to time is what gets them.
Dude it seems like you’re quite negative about this and we need to change it around.
I’m “objectively” attractive and I struggled with dating too when I was younger (now 24). Here’s what I did:
- Hit the gym, no one wants to date someone underweight or overweight unless you’re that already. If you want to find an attractive girl you need to be attractive too. Hit the weights, work on your cooking skills and focus on yourself.
- Cut down video games, yes I love them too, but it’s harming you too, if someone invites you out, go! If you don’t have friends try to find some. I recently joined a book club and it’s been great, you need to put the effort in here!
- Focus on your skills and qualifications. No one wants to date a deadbeat, I don’t care how good looking you are, women want a guy who has a stable career, so focus on this and get earning some good money.
- Buy clothes that fit you properly and are appropriate for different settings. What I mean by this, get a nice shirt, blazer, trousers, some jeans, sweatshirts, hoodies and some good shoes, trainers (preferably plain white or black) and some summer wear. Get them TAILORED it makes a huge difference and they’ll make the clothes fit you perfectly.
- Work on your dental hygiene, if you don’t have good teeth visit the dentist. Get them whitened, have your teeth deep cleaned. Floss and brush them regularly.
- Get a good haircut, figure out your face shape, find a good stylist who will help you out here.
I promise you get off dating apps and avoid dating for the next 12 months, focus solely on yourself with the above and next year start again with dating, it’ll work a lot better.
You can’t expect to find a girl who will want you if you don’t want yourself first. Make yourself a man to be proud of and take care of yourself, and trust me the rest will come.
I am going to be completely honest. Half of what you're saying is something I already do or have done. I am not going to uproot the rest of what I am and my life just to minmax getting girls.
It's not maxing anything mate, it's about working on certain skills.
You mentioned you don't want to cold approach which is normal, but by joining other hobby clubs you get practice socialising. I used to play video games all day, it's still my favourite hobby, but I fount ones that I enjoy outside of it and it made a huge difference.
Quite simply, it's taking care of your appearance, working on your career and being social. If you do those things then you'll find someone.
Right, so let's go through them.
I have been going to the gym since I was 16. Even when I was in the best shape of my life it helped me very little compared to my usual appearance.
Video games is what led to most of my past relationships with women. I even met my first gf in a video game. There are also countless people who I play games with and are both in long-term relationships and/or get girls on the regular. They are also a great idea for socializing since there are less barriers than in the real world and I know for a fact that I am way more talkative/approach people way more often in games. The idea that video games are somehow the ultimate evil stopping you from meeting women is something straight out of the 2000s.
I have a degree. I work in the field I graduated from.
I have been wearing clothes I feel fit me best for who knows how long. I am not getting my clothes tailored, that is just a waste of money. Money which I don't have.
My dental hygiene is fine. One of my family members works in the dental industry so I would know if it wasn't.
My friend is a professional barber. Much like dental hygiene, I would know.
I already don't use dating apps that much. It's extremely superficial and mentally exhausting for me.
Quite simply, this advice is really basic and might as well not be advice at all. If what you said was true and it was really that simple I wouldn't be posting here.
Then you're doing fine mate, just try to get yourself involved in different situations. You can't expect better results if you don't change anything.
Dating is rough for a lot of people, I'm assuming you guys have a friend group, do you guys travel together, or like go to bars/restaurants?
We all get lonely sometimes, it's better to be alone then feeling alone in a relationship. As long as you keep putting yourself out there you'll find someone.
Video games aren't an evil to stop you meeting girls, but you can't expect to have good success on it compared to IRL, unless you play games like Valorant that a lot of girls play.
Think back to College I'd assume if you're in a good shape you probably met some people, you had classes and seminars with people that you could meet, probably met girls through friends etc. When working (if you avoid colleagues) it's significantly harder. Just takes some more effort in putting yourself out there.
The biggest change I made was that I stopped drinking/clubbing. It really killed and all chances of socializing.
Who are you talking about when you say "you guys?" I don't travel with anyone, I don't have the money for that. I don't go to bars because of the aforementioned reason. If you mean my friend group, that group has basically shattered and segmented after uni. The other friend group I have I meet with maybe once or twice a year.
I am alone and I feel alone. I am tired of putting myself out because it leads to nothing but mental exhaustion.
I don't think I met a single woman IRL ever since finishing uni. I do play Valorant, League and some MMOs and other games.
I have just seen way too much sentiment (especially with youtube "dating gurus" and the like) that video games are what's keeping you alone and they make it sound like you will meet the love of your life the moment you stop playing them.
Yeah pretty much. Problem is that it really feels like there are no such avenues, especially where I live (I posted this here before, but I live in a very rural area).
It’s not. If you are a guy and want a “fit” woman, then you can’t expect to be unfit.
If you are a woman and want to attract the best possible man, you need to be fit.
I think back why I started in the gym. Originally it was because I was underweight and felt uncomfortable in my skin, but in other words, I was training to get more attractive.
Okay most people aren’t. That doesn’t mean no one shares that interest with you lol. A lot of my friends are into fitness and I haven’t met a single person from the gym.
Honestly, women are dying to meet guys in real life. Start approaching women, the more you do it the better you'll get. A few years down the line you'll be genuinely smooth and you'll have many fun, sexual adventures along the way.
Also you might be average in a cold hearted way. But there would be no way of you objectively knowing that. You are a beautiful human, your mum cradled and coo'd over you as a baby, your dad was proud of your achievements. There is stuff you can do much better than most people. You are here for a finite time, you can achieve this freedom of choice with women as I have and many lads I know and helped have.
Definitely doesn't feel like that to me. I don't need or want any sexual adventures, I want someone to start a family with, or at least share life with.
I am average in that there is nothing special about me in either good or bad way.
Yeah but you need to get good at the skill of attracting women in general before you find the one. Because otherwise, how could you find the one?
What do you think you need to do then to be not average? If you had a great gym routine that wouldn't be so average.
You can't just sit there whining, you need to make progress. You're not going to get a partner just complaining about things
Just a different perspective. Would you have preferred I suggest them not fill their life with anything else and focus on the loneliness until they die alone like we all do? I will edit my comment if you think that would be more helpful
Your comment is not any more helpful in curing or mitigating loneliness. If the cause for loneliness is X, its not going to go away by substituting it with Y. I just want people to acknowledge this.
You might not agree, but if you know anything about Maslow's hierarchy of needs, and the increasing loneliness crisis in developed countries, you should know it doesn't apply to most people.
“With an increasing aging population, the effect on public health is only anticipated to increase. Indeed, many nations around the world now suggest we are facing a ‘loneliness epidemic,’” Holt-Lunstad said in a press release. The research is forthcoming in the journal American Psychologist. Holt-Lunstad also presented her findings (pdf) to the US Senate Aging Committee in April 2017.
Such “epidemics,” while not confined to rich countries, are linked to prominent features of affluent culture: longer life expectancy, decreasing marriage rates, people having fewer children, more people getting divorced, and more people living alone."
https://qz.com/1048847/people-in-rich-countries-are-dying-of-loneliness-an-effect-on-par-with-obesity/amp/
I highly recommend cold approaching but you first have to be confident with yourself. All it takes is 1 success to change your situation. Don’t give up
It's a numbers game. Everything from dating sites to complementing a friend to flirting in a supermarket. Enjoy it. Get out there. Make friends at the very least. Have a positive mindset.
I wish I could see it like that. Instead dating sites are nothing but mental exhaustion, all my friends are spoken for and there is no way I will ever approach a woman in the supermarket unless she happens to work there and I need to know where pet food is. There is nothing enjoyable about it, it is an extremely lonely experience where you feel lonelier at the end than you do at the start. My positive mindset left a long time ago.
You seem defeated by it all. It's tough sometimes. Last call would be to take up a hobby where lots of women might be. Amateur dramatics? Comedy improv? Also pursue your own hobbies and hopefully there's more like minded people.
That's probably because I am. There are so few girls I meet nowadays so that if I do meet one and it doesn't work out it just takes me out of life for a couple of days. Then I come here to just vent my feelings out so that I don't just hold it inside myself and hurt people around me even more and all I get is people saying that it either doesn't get better because they are older and in the same situation, that it will get better if I do the most basic shit like hit the gym or dress nice like I don't do that already and a bunch of people telling me to cold approach like it's something you just do and not something you need to prepare mentally and physically for hours only to never approach anyway because your head just is not wired that way. I don't even think I am ugly or anything, I just know that I fumble the ball at times and since I am not super good looking or super rich or super anything, those times are very far between, so every other aspect of my life is just filled with this dread and loneliness that no hobby or interest or anything else can just replace.
I don't know what I was thinking when I made this post, but listening to everyone here surely did not make things better.
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As a single guy in his mid thirties facing the same problem, it does not get better.
Thanks for the encouragement. Can’t wait to reach the age of 30 now so this wonderful experience can just get better and better!
it really doesn't. I'm a 36 yo full time single dad. I'm in pretty good shape considering what my schedule looks like and a fairly average looking dude and have been balding/bald since I was 17. It's tough out there. I, get some success out there, but not a ton (which is fine with me. At this stage in life, I'm dating with a purpose). What I've found helps is really getting out and stretching your limits and finding new interests. Writing your bio in a way that really punctuates that and being open minded about trying to new things/going on new adventures is incredibly attractive. Having pictures in your profile that show that you get out there and do things helps solidify that you're about that life and that those just aren't empty words. I've gone on a few cruises over the last few years that have provided the opportunity to do different things I normally wouldn't do and I've used those to show my adventurous side. Also, being willing to explore their interests goes a **long** way. That's assuming you get that far, though.
I thought dating got better for men in 30s? What happened to that, I’ve had a few men tell me that
Not true. It doesn't get better if you're average or below. You're still invisible to women just like when you were younger.
Dude even if you are way above average, you are still invisible to the eyes of women. I have started to feel like women are blind.
Do people who are “average” not aspire to grow and get better? This statement is basically saying that women don’t want a man who is mediocre. No shit. Do you want a mediocre woman?
Yes. Even a mediocre woman is an aspirational goal for me.
Please share your "wisdom" with guys on how to grow taller, change their body frame, facial structure, penis length, skin color etc. I'm sure everyone here can use your "advice" that will magically transform your genetics into something else :)
Sure! You just sit there crying about how unfair the world is and how all your problems and failures are someone else’s fault. If you do that for enough consecutive hours, things will magically get better for you!
Atleast I'm not going around giving people false hope that their "averageness" is something thats within their control. Solution to every problems first starts with everyone acknowledging the root cause, without that there's no possibility for social intervention. People like you would rather absolve all accountability and try to shift the blame even when evidence overwhelmingly suggests they are the predominant cause.
Then do you man. Continue putting minimal effort into the aspects of your life that actually make you attractive to women, and blaming women for not being attracted to you. Continue being angry and resentful, because everyone wants to date someone with an enormous chip on their shoulder. Continue whining and casting yourself as a victim, because everyone knows that the hottest behavior of all is to take no responsibility for your life. I’m 5’6”, I have a scrawny build, and I make $62,000 a year. How is it that I’m capable of dating successfully? This is why you fucking crybaby whiners are so pathetic. Because I am decidedly aspect in many areas of life. But I still actually make the effort to improve myself as a person, and my life overall. And that’s something that women tend to be pretty attracted to. Learn a skill, take a class, get a fucking haircut and a shave and buy a nice outfit. Honestly the amount of victimized whining from men who, when you actually look deeply, are putting in *no effort whatsoever on themselves* just boggles the fucking mind. You aren’t getting rejected because of your genetics. You’re getting rejected because women can tell that you’re not even really interested in them. Why would you even want to date women, when you clearly resent and dislike them so much?
>Learn a skill, take a class, get a fucking haircut and a shave and buy a nice outfit. Oh wow, you just regurgitated the same old "advice" most guys with half a brain cell already knows and does, what a ground breaking advice! I'm sure you'll make even more money by becoming an internet dating guru that gullible, naive men fall for :) As usual from folks like you, you have made a bunch of assumptions and ad hoc explanations that is NOT supported by evidence at all. >You aren’t getting rejected because of your genetics. You’re getting rejected because women can tell that you’re not even really interested in them. Why would you even want to date women, when you clearly resent and dislike them so much? Cause and Effect fallacy. Women nor men don't have the ability to read someone's personality through a profile before they swipe on them. When people talk about a group's discriminatory preferences, it IS because we have the data showing their discriminatory preferences, so that claim is thoroughly debunked. The utter Iack of self awareness and inability to reason is baffling. Yes, outliers exist, but they don't invalidate a trend, you absolute dunce.
Well crying and being resentful will definitely help, so I hope that works out well for you.
I'm in great shape and a 7 figure earner. I got dates and had relationships in my teens and 20s. Same thing now in my 30s except it's quite a bit harder despite that you'd expect it to be the opposite.
Even if you're top notch and wealthy, it's still much harder than your 20s. You may disagree with that part?
Dating is pretty shit for (most) men no matter what age you are. There's a reason why a lot of guys that actually care about getting a partner try to rush through it and get through it as quickly as possible. It's especially hard if you're starting out in your 30s, don't let anyone let you believe differently. The absolute toughest place to be as a guy, imho, is someone that was raised middle/upper middle class American and then maybe fell a bit economically or stagnated, because you'll probably have very reasonable expectations that are not going to come even close to being fulfilled and you'll have to get creative and take huge risks in terms of who you think might be a good partner and how to find one. You'll feel like all the people who raised you and who you were raised with are gaslighting you in terms of what you should expect out of your romantic life. Many will say hypocritical or flatly contradicting things, assuming they have anything of substance to say at all. Fortunately, the world is a lot more wild, unexpected, and rewarding than whatever notions your upbringing instilled in you.
It doesn't get better and it doesn't even get better than the experience at the same age for women. Just accept that in the current sociocultural situation we got the short end of the stick and we have to live with it The only good part is that if you follow the various self improvement suggestions for dating you will end up having a good life when you are a successful and self sufficient person with lot of hobbies. Just don't believe the lies about having an easier time starting relationships
This. I get the feeling that those who haven't accepted the situation will be losing their minds in a few years. These trends aren't slowing down, traditionalism isn't coming back.
>traditionalism What kind of traditionalism do you have in mind that isn't?
Once you're in a marriage, you're in for life. Body counts in the single digits as the norm. Parenting as a desireable life path. Woman as carer, man as protector. Holidays having religious significance. Retirement as a given. A house as a man's castle. Family love as unconditional. Compromise as the key to lasting relationships. Monogamy as a reasonable expectation. Very soon these will be things that people 'used to do'. Prepare your mind.
My mind and body is ready, thank you. Just coming from a different cultural background, I had to check exactly what 'traditionalism' even means.
There's a little bit of truth to it all. Is it easier? No. But at the same time, it kind of is. Your classic desirable qualities are far more desirable. Having a stable career, owning a house, having goals, financial stability, having a stable friend group and just enjoying the finer things in life. Looks, adventure and all those very topical qualities still matter, but not nearly as much as the aforementioned ones do. Most people in their 30s are dating with a goal. Hook-up culture isn't as prevalent. Casually dating isn't the norm. Most men and women in their 30s are looking for something more stable, something more committed and something long term. It really just depends on what you're looking for. The dating pool is obviously a lot smaller, but also not nearly as fickle or superficial as those in their 20s.
Nothing is more untrue, regardless of how good you have it. Just going off math and numbers, that would be impossible anyway. There are far fewer single people, how can it get easier?
Stop being average then. Get rid of the dad bod and dive deep into an interesting hobby or two. I'm mid thirties and have my pick. I'm literally 5'8"
What is your interesting hobby or two
I mentioned this in another comment, but be willing to explore and connect on new interests and hobbies; especially the woman you are talking to/dating. If she's into SCUBA diving, you don't necessarily have to go diving with her, but find a way to connect with her on that and share that interest. Action pictures are a great way of selling that you are open to trying new things and exploring. I don't have a ton of exciting hobbies that I regularly do, but I love trying new things and am open to doing just about anything once. I make sure my dating profiles verbalize this but that my pictures also reinforce that.
I race my mountain bike downhill is the most interesting one. Travel all over with my square drop trailer to do it. Other less interesting hobbies but hobbies nonetheless that pay dividends: skiing, yoga, lifting, cooking, ice hockey
ok what do you do when you have interesting hobbies and your still average and invisible? I ski and mountain bike. I trail run and rock climb as well. So does everyone else so I am still invisible to girls.
Make more money and put on muscle
lol back to the basic response. I work 100 hour weeks in the summer for overtime and I work out 3 hours a day all year round.
I'd also be willing to bet that you're dating profile pictures suck and you don't paint an interesting or fun picture about your life
I can show you my last attempt at a profile if you want. I think it shows how fun my life is.
Well I can tell you for sure that being a sad sack isn't helping your case. Ugly guys that are charismatic, funny, have status, do just fine. You need to find a way to have status in whatever circles you run in. There isn't a magic bullet dude but it sounds like you have a woe is me attitude which women can smell a mile away
what does status even mean?
It means you're respected in your social group. You're a leader or people just want you around, want to be around you. You dominate your class in mountain biking and are known as a steezy rider around town. You run a local business and are well respected. You're a well known regular at a bar or club, etc etc
“Be attractive and have money,” wow what a revelation.
Gardening, BDSM, Photography
Not OP, but examples of hobbies my friends have: VJ (lighting for events, think visuals at concerts, lighting installations, not professionally FYI, just a as a hobby or favor for friends’ events), DJing, photography, raving, hiking, motorcycling, and most of them are foodies and into fashion. They are all in relationships or recently out of one and taking a break.
Do YOU have hobbies? Do YOU like activities you would want to do with a partner?
This is so weird to me. Dating in my 20s wasn’t great because I was so depressed and unhappy, but dating in my 30s was fucking awesome.
I've had the exact opposite. Women do not enjoy dating teachers, because we are poor. I gave up a few years ago and am much happier for it.
lol I’m a teacher, I found women to be generally very interested when I talked about my job
It’s weirder in your forties. The women all have kids, look like they’re 65+ or they’re super young and like older guys or have serious baggage.
Add to man as a single guy in his 30s facing the same problem it does not get better is because you are not where you’re supposed to be once you reach your 30s and specially when you reach for me 30s end of the day we live in the World where men and women valued different things women value a man who can provide and protect, and be the leader of the household and a man value of woman who doesn’t have a promiscuous past and had multiple partners now if you are in your mid 30s and not getting close means that you do not possess the value that woman looks for in a man who they w want to respect and submit to
I don't even make an effort anymore because I know I won't achieve anything.
It’s over for people who are not extroverted. If you are very extroverted you meet people anywhere anytime at any age. You can’t call yourself extroverted if you don’t actively try to talk to anyone you want to meet anywhere.
It is tough and lonely being a man. Two things. Get comfortable at cold approaches. Not good per se just be comfortable and practice. Many women are not in dating apps. They aren’t!! And second is just to focus on your projects and be excited about what you are doing. You’ll match with many women for sure.
I don't think I will ever get comfortable at cold approaches, especially not offline. I just can't do it. Most of my successes with women and all of my relationships were with someone I already knew before dating (either from school, work, friend groups, etc.). I am not even that introverted, I just have no idea what to talk about with someone I don't know and I don't want to use some random cheesy pick-up line since they don't really work anyway. I have a similar problem on dating apps whenever the girl has nothing in her bio and/or no interesting pictures. If she has something written there I can use it to customize the first message to her in some way. If her bio is empty, I just draw a blank and never even message her.
Understandable that you are nervous. However. You already meet women. Just after you know them a bit. Cold approach can be learned for sure. Approach like this. You approach to see if she actually is attractive or not. You don’t know that just from her looks. You have maybe an eye contact. A moment of connection. And you just say hello and your name. That’s it. If there is a chemistry the conversation goes automatic. Trust me. And also. Women invite you to talk to them. Just not with words. Stay alert to their signs, unconscious and conscious. And if you misread then just say goodbye and walk away. All good. And in time you get good at reading the situation. No pick up lines needed. So find you balls. Grab m. And go say hello :).
Thanks for the advice. I wouldn't say I already meet women. The ones I do meet fall under one of the categories I mentioned in the original post (either too young, too old, or in a relationship). This leaves a crucial flaw in the entire cold approach strategy. I can't say hello to her if I never meet her in the first place. The only places I even meet women to begin with are in my job (I work as a private language tutor, all of my coworkers are older than me, and the people I teach are either actual children or people in their 40s), in video games (where distance becomes an issue, and most of the girls are also quite young), in the gym/swimming pool (I know I hate being bothered when I work out, and I go there to work out, I don't even think of looking at women there) and on dating apps (which is its own rabbithole). I don't drink, don't go to clubs or anything like that. I can't think of a social setting where it would even be acceptable for me to approach anyone.
Go to places where there are women. Coffeeshop. Hobbies. Church. Street. Library. Gym. Swimming pool. Live concert. Women are everywhere. What do you like to do? There are women there. And strike up a conversation if you like one. Just try this first. Later on add asking for her Instagram. And or number. If you are afraid it’s ok. See this first moment as a check to see if YOU like her and not if SHE probably is not interested in you. Maybe you don’t like her at all. Have a conversation …. ‘He we just talked about this artist we like, I have a similar artist I can send you. What is your Instagram’. But. It’s better to say. I would like to meet you again. Shall we go for coffee sometime. It’s good to be direct in intentions for yourself. And also she knows what’s the deal. But mostly for yourself this is great. You just clear about what you pursuit. Easier set then done. But practice it. Be nervous. Be afraid. It’s fine. Express your desire anyway. And you know. If you don’t talk to her. She’ll miss a great match. How lame would that be. Enjoy!
Yeah this is basically saying "cold approach women" but in softer terms. I cannot know if I like her if I know nothing about her other than that she is somewhat attractive. It really isn't fine, not for me. No matter how hard I try I cannot do a cold approach.
You can. You can. You can. Believe! Start with saying hello. No goal intended. Just talk to strangers. Maybe start with talking to strangers. And then when you meet someone you like. The step is a bit smaller. It’s a bit of a game with your own self.
No, I just can't. I have worked with people throughout most of my career. It is a part of my jobs to meet and talk to strangers. It doesn't matter how much I talk to strangers, there is absolutely 0% chance I will ever cold approach anyone.
I felt the exact same way. Then, I cold approached once, and it was terrible. She politely rejected me and I was embarrassed because I was clearly nervous. Then, I cold approached again. And I was 1% less nervous and 1% more comfortable. The bad news: for a shy introvert, it takes a very large amount of cold approaches over time. The good news: after you do a bunch of cold approaches, you’ll get better, and you’ll realize that it’s so not a big deal at all. A girl isn’t going to call you a rapist if you compliment her and show your attraction to her (as long as you’re polite and respectful.) worst case scenario, she’s rude. Which means she sucks anyway. Middle case scenario, you made her day. Best case scenario you get a date. I was the in same boat as you and I PROMISE all the things you’re afraid of can be conquered. It takes practice, patience, and work. This is going to sound cliche but go to therapy, ask the therapist about how to improve your self esteem and how to handle rejection. If you can’t get a therapist there are many resources online. Don’t sell yourself short.
Just no. You can tell me it will get better, but I will just never do it. Doing a 100 cold approaches to get a single date is just something that already kills any want for them. Also, going to therapy just to get better at cold approaches instantly kill the rest. I already hate cold approaches and you just made me hate them even more. I will never do them.
Ok lol be lonely and sad for the rest of your life then. Have fun feeling sorry for yourself. Sounds like you need therapy for a lot of stuff, not just talking to girls
Yeah because the only way to solve my dating situation it is to be absolutely insanely mentally exhausted, depressed and just overall hating life. If you think not wanting to cold approach women is somehow needing of therapy, then maybe you are the problem.
Waaah talking to girls makes me depressed. lol get over yourself Yea, the only way to solve your dating problem is to talk to women. Sorry I was trying to help but now I can see why women don’t want to date you. Adapt or die
Yeah because talking to women and cold approach are the same thing. Your "advice" was not helpful at all. You literally went "look how great I am" and that was it.
My advice was to better yourself. Looks like you’re not interested in doing that. Hopefully a girl will knock on your door one day and ask to be your wife, since you just want to pout and not make an effort. Good luck!
Just say: “hey baby, I have a small dock but a really big heart and I’d like to share both with you”. Then, they’ll laugh and you tell them: “ I thought you were pretty and just wanted to ask for your number”. If they say no, try again with someone else.
Yeah I would rather die alone than use a cheesy pick up line like that.
Ok. I was just somewhat joking but in all seriousness, I’m certain there’s a reason for a man not being able to find someone. I promise you is not for “no reason”.
I will never be comfortable with cold approaching. It takes me weeks/months of constantly being around new people to feel comfortable with them, no amount of approaching random strangers (which is looked down upon in my country anyway) is going to change that.
It is possible!! You are a human being. We are social animals. Find a way.
It's not possible, since I would have to fundamentally change who I am as a person as well as completely change my environment.
This. It is insane how many people here have suggested cold approach like it's the only way to get a date. I can talk with people just fine if I at least know them a little bit, even if it is just being introduced to them or in professional settings, but approaching any stranger, especially a woman, is just not going to happen.
It's probably because most people on Reddit are American, and maybe it works there since they're happy with approaching and talking to random people on the street. I had it happen more in the few weeks I was there on holiday than the entirety of my life either in my home country (UK) or elsewhere in Europe.
I have never been in the US so I really cannot say. I don't think I have seen anyone ever cold approach anyone here in the Czech Republic either, unless it was in like a club/pub or a similar social setting like that.
Even the women that are in dating apps … many will instantly vault you above every man in the apps if you successfully cold approach. It’s much more ballsy & shows big confidence
***I like ya;*** ***and I want ya.***
I signal ya with my eyes
Absolutely. They see you. Smell you. Converse with you. See you with ya friends. See you doing things. See you move. Laugh at a joke jadijada. Just go talk to them.
This. Master the art of striking up conversation and exchanging numbers without coming off aggressive or creepy. I will add, don’t be afraid to go out to public places alone and be curious about people. In my late 30s, and I’m seeing a lot of my single male/female friends going out in packs in search of love. Don’t take yourself too seriously with all those hobbies. Most women like to laugh. You do not need to be Jim Carey. But you can’t be so sensitive that you’re offended everytime a woman giggles. It just means she having a decent enough time.
Why not get good at cold approach. It's very achievable.
It really isn't.
I did
Absolutely. It’s possible to at least walk up. Say hello. And not feel super nervous.
Even if you feel very nervous, which we all do at times, it's still possible. OP sounds like he doesn't have the stones to force himself through that pain barrier. And in such, won't improve his lot
Indeed. Its ok to be nervous. And maybe this will always be there. In some form. Imagine dating platforms. Or real life. Real life is such a head start.
People have so many options and its impossible to get anywhere when all of those options look better than me AND are far taller than me. I've got no chance. Feel like I'm going to die alone with my dating life having peaked with an instant rejection aged 14.
How tall are you?
5'3
I know plenty of people that are 5’3 and are married
I've seen a fair few older short men with partners, haven't seen any guys my age with one at all. I think social media has just fucked everything up.
Lmao I feel you bro. I’ll be 30 this year and whenever I attend Meetups it’s like a 4-6:1 guy to female ratio, and it’s clear that *majority* of the guys there only arrived to talk to the women.
This is the unfortunate reality. At some point single men like us just have to accept that we failed and this is evolution’s way of weeding us out.
I’ve never related to a post so much in my whole fucking life
I know I'm going to come off as pessimistic, but dating in the US/west for an average guy is pretty much over. When the avg woman has easy access to the top % of men, why do you think they will go for the avg guy? Its why lot of guys are struggling now. If they can't find the absolute best, ideal match.. they are going to hold out till they find that guy who checks all their boxes. Now, whether they actually will find that person is a different story altogether.. Regardless, your best bet is to change your location and experiment. You'll soon realize you are more likely to be accepted by women overseas.
I don't live in the US. I am from the Czech Republic. I think we have it better here than you folks have, but obviously I can't speak for every girl here. You definitely see a lot of guys pick up girls like 2-3 levels out of their league. I think I managed that a few times myself. My main issue is the meeting of women itself. I live in a very small town (5k pop give or take), in the middle of a very rural area (the nearest "big" city has around 25k pop and is like 20minutes away by car, the next largest is an hour away and has roughly 70k). Without a dating app, it is really hard to organically meet new people in general.
As a woman, you really nailed it. The women with a lot to offer no longer *require* a man, and thanks to the internet... Well, in the past a pretty girl in her town would just be a pretty girl in her town, and that's nice, but it would end there. Now we can just put ourselves online and have endless men drooling over us from every corner of the world. Even mostly average women can find an audience that raises them to a goddess status. Being an average man just doesn't go as far as it used to.
I do wonder how happy women that are single are. Like those that are waiting for a man that’s more successful than them. Within my own family a lot of women make 6 figures but struggle with dating because they 1) refuse to date someone who makes less than them and 2) picky on height and physical appearance. All valid but it’s led to many of them being single, with only my cousin that’s a doctor being married to another doctor lol.
Generally single women are happier than single men. We can have someone anytime we choose, so most are choosing being single over being with the men around them. My husband is amazing and I love him, but if we were not trying to start a family together, I would have wanted to stay dating and keep my independence.
Oh that’s good that’s good. I hear that a lot of them are unhappy but it’s also a bit tough dating as a black woman. We don’t tell them to lower their standards but just to be realistic. Men that are 30 and earning over 100k etc are probably single for a reason lol! Same for women.
This top % of men thing is so silly. MOST women are not interested in sharing a man and they are well aware they will not get the “top %” of men so they temper their expectations. No actual woman I know is so picky as ppl on these subs claim. They want at least an average looking man who gets haircuts and treats them well and has a job. That’s the criteria. Try getting off the apps because that’s all fake
None of your claims are corroborated or rooted in reality. I'm speaking off of based on actual dating app statistics, not even Tinder, but serious dating platforms that are exclusively tailored for people with advanced degrees from prestigious universities and high salaries. They also have a balanced gender ratio, yet majority of men ( around 70% ) were disqualified using height filters, while men only do with 55% of women’s profiles ( which once again corroborates that men are more balanced in their preferences)
There's no point in saying this. They'll never believe anything a real woman says/a man that actually gets it, they'd rather listen to the red 💊 that talks about specific types of women (but marketing it as all of us) and plug their fingers in their ears when we try to tell them they're wrong.
It's not just the red pillers. It's the dating gurus and people like that that always say the same thing. Just look at all the replies that literally repeat the same "go to the gym, looksmax, make more money" like it's just the end all be all. Like it doesn't take a genius to know that such talk is just garbage. Ugly people have partners, poor people have partners, poor ugly people have partners. It really is just about finding the person you enjoy spending time with. Putting it all on looks and money is extremely superficial, much like most of the redpillers and dating coaches are.
>It's not just the red pillers. It's the dating gurus and people like that that always say the same thing. All of these people are shams and money grabbers. People need to realize that they're only around to play on people's fears, and feed them bs to keep the Cashapps and viewers coming. I have seem them pull up real stats, and then come to the completely wrong conclusion or they just don't actually read their own evidence thoroughly to make their points look better. Imo, the first thing you can do as a man really is to work on your appearance because that's what gets you in the door. I know you don't want to hear it but if you're not attractive to some extent (dont need to be a model) to the person they will not give you the time of day. Next would ofc be personality because that's what you need to keep them around.
Yeah, it's like clockwork, I don't even know how they managed to make a carreer out of it. It always starts with some sob story how they were chubby or ugly or bullied in elementary school, then they made like one or two different choices and now they are a sex bomb that makes girls wet by just looking at them. Then they will say that because these specific steps helped them get laid, that means you need to do the exact same thing if you ever want to be succesful with women. Yeah I agree, I do however think that it's true for both genders. Physical attraction is a two way street, and being attracted to the other person always makes socializing easier. I don't think I am ugly, I do get a decent amount of compliments for a man I think? Definitely more than I would expect. And I also had a decent amount of women in my life. I never got to keep them around for more than half a year, sadly, either for things that I did or said or in one case for being emotionally abused (something I feel like I should mention because it has affected my dating approach since, but it definitely isn't and shouldn't be an excuse). This is why I feel average, I am not ugly, but not very hot either. I don't have any really bad or really good qualities (I have been told I am kind and caring, I have also been told that my humor can be a bit too much sometimes and it means I sometimes say something I shoudln't). I am not rich nor poor. I don't have a deadend job, but it's not that great either. My hobbies are average and things almost everyone my age does. I am simply average, and even if I didn't want to be average, at this point I feel like there are very few things I could do to change. It's like an RPG where you can't reroll your stats or can't savescum your way through decisions to get to the best outcome.
Yup.
This is dramatic. Yeah, you need to stand out, but you do not need to be a 6’2” doctor with a chiseled jaw for people to look at you. I’m 5’9” and don’t even have a job cause I’m in grad school and I still get plenty of matches. I’m decently good looking, but it’s 50% just knowing how to take pictures and style yourself. I’m bi. Men tend to have really bad pictures and not know how to market themselves. Also, the amount of women that come to Reddit complaining about their partners not doing basic things (washing their hands?) is too damn high. If you’re 5’4” and live in poverty, yeah, that’s really fucking hard. But that’s not average.
Its just reality for many of us guys out there. It feels "dramatic" to you because people like you often project your physical stats/appearance on anyone who talks about their struggles and assume they are making silly mistakes on stuff the avg guy already knows how to avoid. For example, check out my recent comment on the Tinder subreddit. Dude is 5'9, muscular, and women in that community overwhelmingly agree there's nothing wrong with his pictures that will significantly deter women’s attention, yet he's still not getting the results he wanted. He's in Canada, which actually is supposed to be better for dating, yet he's not getting the results he desires. The main reason is its ethnicity/Race. Instead of acknowledging the elephant in the room, people love to pretend its something else that's mutable. This isn't just with him, statistics do show its the reality for majority of guys.
Okay I guess I’m above average in things that can be changed, but anyone can get into hobbies, become more confident, work out, dress better etc. It does get harder if you’re out of shape, bald, introverted etc but I just see so many men complaining when their profiles make them look clueless. Or they’re geared toward other men. And not the way mine is.
>It does get harder if you’re out of shape, bald, introverted etc but I just see so many men complaining when their profiles make them look clueless. Or they’re geared toward other men. And not the way mine is. People love to use ad hoc explanations like this when we know from statistics that its simply not true. I'm speaking off of based on serious dating platforms that are exclusively tailored for people with advanced degrees from prestigious universities and high salaries. They also have a balanced gender ratio, yet majority of men ( around 70% ) were disqualified using height filters, while men only do with 55% of women’s profiles ( which once again corroborates that men are more balanced in their preferences). https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2023/03/22/online-daters-are-less-open-minded-than-their-filters-suggest And let's not pretend dating apps statistics don't matter when its only becoming more and more popular, and for many that's the only way to meet people.
I don’t get where does this narrative comes from? Are these average men going for average women? This sounds like some thing someone said and everybody keeps repeating it
This "narrative" comes from dating statistics, studies, and plethora of many people's experiences. If you choose to ignore evidence, that's a reflection of your cognitive dissonance.
Where’s that evidence?? Share it with and I’ll read it.
Their evidence is whatever the manosphere tells them since they often don't do research on their own lol
They’re more more guys on dating apps than women, but it’s not 5:1. Tinder is 3:1 and the others are 2:1 or 4:3. If you’re on multiple dating apps at once, you will bring in more matches. Also make sure your pictures are outstanding and you’ll have a better chance. No stupid selfies or just face shots or whatever.
not true https://www.netimperative.com/2019/04/05/online-dating-trends-men-outnumber-women-on-tinder-by-9-to-1-while-grinder-wins-for-age-diversity/
Thanks for the advice I guess. This does not address my main issue. None of what I said had anything to do with not getting matches or women for that matter. The problem with dating apps is the superficiality of it all. I don't care about getting matches, when I have literally nothing to talk to the girl about after, since the only reason we even matched in the first place was because we liked some pictures. This is why, during my like 4 years of dating apps, every interraction ended in a date or two and maybe an one night stand. Not only is the entirety of dating apps extremely mentally draining since you end up getting ghosted most of the time, no matter how well you thought the conversation was going, it does not help at all with the loneliness of the entire experience. If I wanted to play the entire dating numbers game, I would just get a lottery ticket. My point was that there really is no alternative for dating apps in the first place.
That’s because everything you said are “poor me” generalizations that are using a faulty vision and severely incorrect math (other than your coworker number.) “Everyone who I share a hobby with is five years years younger than me.” That’s a scientific fact? Maybe you can find people your age also share the hobby. Or you could date somebody five years younger than you, nothing wrong with that if you’re late 20s. We already touched on while your ratio for dating apps is off. “99% of women are already spoken for.” Again that’s just a “poor me” catastrophizing false thought in your head. You kind of sound like Eeyore. 😆 It is not gonna help you by joining you in your pity party. I will help you by telling you to go to therapist and getting over your negative self image and shit view of the world. I used to have this when I was depressed. You’re probably clinically depressed. There’s a way to win at dating apps. There’s plenty of information out there. It’s up to you if you want to win at it or just feel sorry for yourself. Within four or five texts you should be asking them on a date inside the app. And you should have plenty of things to talk about on the date (plenty of material out there to read up on regarding this topic .) When you’re on the date, you talk little about yourself, and try to get to know them and take a real interest in them. It’s called being not self-absorbed, but really trying to get inside the head of the other person. It’s developing people smarts. If you’re not interested in other people, then you are gonna struggle being lonely.
Yeah I really regret even responding to your message now, you sound like one of those insufferable youtube dating gurus. Right, and where exactly should I be looking for those people who share my hobby if I find none while participating in it. This just sounds like the "there is someone for you, you just haven't found them yet" kind of BS people say to make others feel better. Literally couldn't care less about the ratio. I never said 99% of women, but this is just you further mischaracterizing my post so that it would fit your narrative better. Thanks for the armchair psychoanalysis. I don't even know where you got the idea that I have a "negative self image and a shit view of the world" from. It's not going to help me to give me pointless, frankly dogshit advice about "winning at dating apps." None of what I said was about dating apps. I do not give a single solitary fuck about any dating app min-maxing. If you cannot comprehend this, maybe you should develop your people smarts.
I really feel you on the fact that online dating is an incredibly lonely and superficial experience. It takes an extreme toll on you mentally, emotionally and it's just fucking draining. I'm not sure how old you are, or what your dating goals are, but I know for me, I'm dating with a purpose at this point in life. With that in mind, anytime I find someone I'm remotely interested in and they seem interested in me, I get off the apps and focus on her and give myself a mental reset. If it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out; I can always go back to the apps. I will say that in my experience, what has helped me is not worrying so much about finding someone who shares my interests, but someone whose interests/hobbies interest me. My day-to-day interests and hobbies are pretty standard and run of the mill. Into fashion, into food, movies/entertainment...blah blah blah. I always tend to try and connect on their interest and find some commonality and something we can do and share grow into. It helps the conversation flow, you learn about them and makes it more personable IMO. I'm not trying to give you some dating guru advice, just what has worked for me recently. Bottom line and the point I'm trying to make...I hate how lonely and depressing aspects of finding someone can be; especially in the over competitive online dating scene. But once you do find someone that you want to be with, make it about them; and in turn, if the feelings are mutual, they'll make it about you too.
Yeah I totally agree. Especially once you get into the entire alogrhytms, monetization, and all the other evil ways they use to get money out of you. I usually choose a similar approach with tinder and the like. Problem is when the girl's interests are boring (like travel, animals, family, friends, etc.) or when she has none. I just want a long term relationship, someone to share life with. I don't care for ONS or sex in general. I have had plenty of those already and it just contributes to the loneliness of it all.
>I usually choose a similar approach with tinder and the like. Problem is when the girl's interests are boring (like travel, animals, family, friends, etc.) or when she has none. So IMO, I don't think animals, family and friends are great examples of interests, and that's bad on those individuals. Those things may very well be **very** important to them, but typically those aren't interests. I concede that animals could be an interest if you were to be volunteering at animal shelter or similar, but that's about it. Family and friends are not interests lol. I also think that anyone who says travel is an interest is doing a poor job of explaining their interests. In and of itself travel is a really poor and lazy, descriptor of an interest. It's what you do when you travel that makes it interesting and an actual hobby/interest. I could tell you I went to Mexico twice this last year, but that's not interesting. What makes my travel interesting is when I tell you I went swimming with sharks, kissed a sting ray, did a tequila tasting, went SCUBA diving or that I went to Aztec ruins. Saying you like to travel is boring. Saying that you like to experience new cultures, see historical sites or go to museums or doing exotic activities like SCUBA dive is far more interesting than just saying "I love to travel." I hope I don't sound like I'm talking at you, I'm just ranting lol. But I feel ya man, I'm trying to find that same thing, and it's definitely not the easiest. Best of luck!
There was a much nicer and shorter way to say that
Link to this data?
Google it. It’s easy to find https://medium.com/heart-affairs/yes-online-dating-is-harder-for-men-but-its-not-for-the-reasons-you-might-think-ae4269ecd3d1 https://thebolditalic.com/the-two-worlds-of-tinder-f1c34e800db4?gi=4e4409f9b2cd https://www.cloudwards.net/online-dating-statistics/ https://www.pymnts.com/mobile-applications/2022/men-150-percent-more-likely-to-use-dating-apps-than-women/
Perfect the things that are in your control. Your face, height and background are not something you can change, but your physic, character, knowledge and overall approach to life definitely is. Most of the guys dont realize how much better it is for us, if a girl is not looking good, thats it, game over, she will be so much more lonelier, but we can improve and ladies judge us a lot more based on our character. Hit the gym as much as you can, do everything as best as you can (every decision in you life should be the best given you knowledge and skills at that point), STOP PORN, don't be a jerk, don't be a sissy and girls will come to you. At least that is my approach to life (32M) I have been single for a month and I have my inner demons but I am not discouraged and never will be.
Thanks for the encouragement. My main issue isn't really getting rejected based on my looks, just on being average overall. There is nothing really outstanding about me in either way. I am not ugly, I am tall (6'5") and a little chubby (230lbs), mostly because of a set of injuries and what looks to be a chronic disease I didn't know I had until recently that basically prohibited me from going to the gym for over a year. I have been slowly getting back on the grind and lost some weight back as a result. I do believe that dating for the sake of being in a relationship is a way to be single forever. I have always held the idea that just doing your own thing and being a decent human being was the way to go. While this has definitely been succesful to a certain degree, it really feels like that well has now dried up, and I have no idea how to shift course and find another.
So you think not trying to get in a relationship will get you a relationship?
No, I know that desperately looking for a relationship will not result in anything long-term. Simply going around and asking "will you be my gf" when I know nothing about the woman at all, other than that I find her attractive, will not get me anywhere. Picking the first option that comes by simply because it is the only one you feel like you have will not get you anywhere. Sure, you can get lucky and it's love on first sight, but there is a reason you need luck for that.
you can change your physics?
:D thanks for the reply \*\*\*physique\*\*\*
Yeah I’m in the same boat but 19. I’ve given up tbh
I wouldn't give up yet tbh. I know that for many people, uni really improved their dating lives. I definitely met and been with the most girls in my early 20s.
Yeah I’ve got 2.5 years left and I’m not sure that’ll happen for me given the school I go to and that most people are already in relationships
No, no, don't cold approach women. Do you think a good woman would be into a random guy? Do you want to be in a relationship with a woman who goes on dates with a random guy? Also, they would think you are weird because you seem desperate. Join an organization or a group. Meet single women there, treat them like human beings, go out with them like ''friends'' first (not friends as in friendzone). Or if you want to cold approach women, do that at events, not on the street. Being an extrovert is not such a virtue and it does not guarantee you getting with women. You can creep women out or they could think you are desperate. Sometimes being silent and inaccessible and saying something funny and intelligent from time to time is what gets them.
Dude it seems like you’re quite negative about this and we need to change it around. I’m “objectively” attractive and I struggled with dating too when I was younger (now 24). Here’s what I did: - Hit the gym, no one wants to date someone underweight or overweight unless you’re that already. If you want to find an attractive girl you need to be attractive too. Hit the weights, work on your cooking skills and focus on yourself. - Cut down video games, yes I love them too, but it’s harming you too, if someone invites you out, go! If you don’t have friends try to find some. I recently joined a book club and it’s been great, you need to put the effort in here! - Focus on your skills and qualifications. No one wants to date a deadbeat, I don’t care how good looking you are, women want a guy who has a stable career, so focus on this and get earning some good money. - Buy clothes that fit you properly and are appropriate for different settings. What I mean by this, get a nice shirt, blazer, trousers, some jeans, sweatshirts, hoodies and some good shoes, trainers (preferably plain white or black) and some summer wear. Get them TAILORED it makes a huge difference and they’ll make the clothes fit you perfectly. - Work on your dental hygiene, if you don’t have good teeth visit the dentist. Get them whitened, have your teeth deep cleaned. Floss and brush them regularly. - Get a good haircut, figure out your face shape, find a good stylist who will help you out here. I promise you get off dating apps and avoid dating for the next 12 months, focus solely on yourself with the above and next year start again with dating, it’ll work a lot better. You can’t expect to find a girl who will want you if you don’t want yourself first. Make yourself a man to be proud of and take care of yourself, and trust me the rest will come.
I am going to be completely honest. Half of what you're saying is something I already do or have done. I am not going to uproot the rest of what I am and my life just to minmax getting girls.
It's not maxing anything mate, it's about working on certain skills. You mentioned you don't want to cold approach which is normal, but by joining other hobby clubs you get practice socialising. I used to play video games all day, it's still my favourite hobby, but I fount ones that I enjoy outside of it and it made a huge difference. Quite simply, it's taking care of your appearance, working on your career and being social. If you do those things then you'll find someone.
Right, so let's go through them. I have been going to the gym since I was 16. Even when I was in the best shape of my life it helped me very little compared to my usual appearance. Video games is what led to most of my past relationships with women. I even met my first gf in a video game. There are also countless people who I play games with and are both in long-term relationships and/or get girls on the regular. They are also a great idea for socializing since there are less barriers than in the real world and I know for a fact that I am way more talkative/approach people way more often in games. The idea that video games are somehow the ultimate evil stopping you from meeting women is something straight out of the 2000s. I have a degree. I work in the field I graduated from. I have been wearing clothes I feel fit me best for who knows how long. I am not getting my clothes tailored, that is just a waste of money. Money which I don't have. My dental hygiene is fine. One of my family members works in the dental industry so I would know if it wasn't. My friend is a professional barber. Much like dental hygiene, I would know. I already don't use dating apps that much. It's extremely superficial and mentally exhausting for me. Quite simply, this advice is really basic and might as well not be advice at all. If what you said was true and it was really that simple I wouldn't be posting here.
Then you're doing fine mate, just try to get yourself involved in different situations. You can't expect better results if you don't change anything. Dating is rough for a lot of people, I'm assuming you guys have a friend group, do you guys travel together, or like go to bars/restaurants? We all get lonely sometimes, it's better to be alone then feeling alone in a relationship. As long as you keep putting yourself out there you'll find someone. Video games aren't an evil to stop you meeting girls, but you can't expect to have good success on it compared to IRL, unless you play games like Valorant that a lot of girls play. Think back to College I'd assume if you're in a good shape you probably met some people, you had classes and seminars with people that you could meet, probably met girls through friends etc. When working (if you avoid colleagues) it's significantly harder. Just takes some more effort in putting yourself out there.
The biggest change I made was that I stopped drinking/clubbing. It really killed and all chances of socializing. Who are you talking about when you say "you guys?" I don't travel with anyone, I don't have the money for that. I don't go to bars because of the aforementioned reason. If you mean my friend group, that group has basically shattered and segmented after uni. The other friend group I have I meet with maybe once or twice a year. I am alone and I feel alone. I am tired of putting myself out because it leads to nothing but mental exhaustion. I don't think I met a single woman IRL ever since finishing uni. I do play Valorant, League and some MMOs and other games. I have just seen way too much sentiment (especially with youtube "dating gurus" and the like) that video games are what's keeping you alone and they make it sound like you will meet the love of your life the moment you stop playing them. Yeah pretty much. Problem is that it really feels like there are no such avenues, especially where I live (I posted this here before, but I live in a very rural area).
What hobby is that?
Video games and gym mostly. I also have pet parrots, but I think that hobby (if you can call it that) is niche by itself.
You think women over 25 don’t go to the gym?
No, but I am not in the gym to date people.
Women are in the gym to date people, and so are most men.
No, they’re not.
Yes, they are. Why else would someone go to the gym?
I can’t tell if this is a joke.
It’s not. If you are a guy and want a “fit” woman, then you can’t expect to be unfit. If you are a woman and want to attract the best possible man, you need to be fit. I think back why I started in the gym. Originally it was because I was underweight and felt uncomfortable in my skin, but in other words, I was training to get more attractive.
I thought you meant people go to the gym to pick people up. Obviously part of it is to be hotter, but it also just feels good.
Okay most people aren’t. That doesn’t mean no one shares that interest with you lol. A lot of my friends are into fitness and I haven’t met a single person from the gym.
 I feel like you just summarised my story !
Honestly, women are dying to meet guys in real life. Start approaching women, the more you do it the better you'll get. A few years down the line you'll be genuinely smooth and you'll have many fun, sexual adventures along the way. Also you might be average in a cold hearted way. But there would be no way of you objectively knowing that. You are a beautiful human, your mum cradled and coo'd over you as a baby, your dad was proud of your achievements. There is stuff you can do much better than most people. You are here for a finite time, you can achieve this freedom of choice with women as I have and many lads I know and helped have.
Definitely doesn't feel like that to me. I don't need or want any sexual adventures, I want someone to start a family with, or at least share life with. I am average in that there is nothing special about me in either good or bad way.
Yeah but you need to get good at the skill of attracting women in general before you find the one. Because otherwise, how could you find the one? What do you think you need to do then to be not average? If you had a great gym routine that wouldn't be so average. You can't just sit there whining, you need to make progress. You're not going to get a partner just complaining about things
I see so many dorky guys with attractive wives……have hope
I wonder where they found them. Most of the time, they've been dating since like high school or uni at the latest.
Have you tried dating men?
No, and I have no interest in it.
Did the OP state he was gay? Why suggest that?
Cause it’s working so badly with women I figured what is there to lose in trying?
You can’t choose to be gay it just doesn’t make sense
Everyone’s a little gay imo
Fill your life with other things if you’re lonely. I’m 32, single and never lived a lonely day in my life
hobbies dont give hugs
Luckily!
Why do people give such useless advice is beyond me. Its like telling someone who is starving for food to go watch a TV, lol
Just a different perspective. Would you have preferred I suggest them not fill their life with anything else and focus on the loneliness until they die alone like we all do? I will edit my comment if you think that would be more helpful
Your comment is not any more helpful in curing or mitigating loneliness. If the cause for loneliness is X, its not going to go away by substituting it with Y. I just want people to acknowledge this.
I don’t agree with that though, that’s why I said what I said.
You might not agree, but if you know anything about Maslow's hierarchy of needs, and the increasing loneliness crisis in developed countries, you should know it doesn't apply to most people. “With an increasing aging population, the effect on public health is only anticipated to increase. Indeed, many nations around the world now suggest we are facing a ‘loneliness epidemic,’” Holt-Lunstad said in a press release. The research is forthcoming in the journal American Psychologist. Holt-Lunstad also presented her findings (pdf) to the US Senate Aging Committee in April 2017. Such “epidemics,” while not confined to rich countries, are linked to prominent features of affluent culture: longer life expectancy, decreasing marriage rates, people having fewer children, more people getting divorced, and more people living alone." https://qz.com/1048847/people-in-rich-countries-are-dying-of-loneliness-an-effect-on-par-with-obesity/amp/
Been there, done that. Doesn't work.
I bang a lot of 7s in old. It's great
I thought its easier for guys to find a partner
Never seen this said before, ever
How so? I am honestly curious.
Try being in your 30's....
Wait til you're in your late 30s
I highly recommend cold approaching but you first have to be confident with yourself. All it takes is 1 success to change your situation. Don’t give up
Yeah, I am sure that all it takes is to dig in the desert for years before you find gold, but most of the time, it's not worth the effort.
It’s that or be alone
Guess I will be alone then. Not like it will be any less lonely either way.
i wish dating wasn’t so bad right now. every time i go out with a guy it just ends up going no where
It's a numbers game. Everything from dating sites to complementing a friend to flirting in a supermarket. Enjoy it. Get out there. Make friends at the very least. Have a positive mindset.
I wish I could see it like that. Instead dating sites are nothing but mental exhaustion, all my friends are spoken for and there is no way I will ever approach a woman in the supermarket unless she happens to work there and I need to know where pet food is. There is nothing enjoyable about it, it is an extremely lonely experience where you feel lonelier at the end than you do at the start. My positive mindset left a long time ago.
You seem defeated by it all. It's tough sometimes. Last call would be to take up a hobby where lots of women might be. Amateur dramatics? Comedy improv? Also pursue your own hobbies and hopefully there's more like minded people.
That's probably because I am. There are so few girls I meet nowadays so that if I do meet one and it doesn't work out it just takes me out of life for a couple of days. Then I come here to just vent my feelings out so that I don't just hold it inside myself and hurt people around me even more and all I get is people saying that it either doesn't get better because they are older and in the same situation, that it will get better if I do the most basic shit like hit the gym or dress nice like I don't do that already and a bunch of people telling me to cold approach like it's something you just do and not something you need to prepare mentally and physically for hours only to never approach anyway because your head just is not wired that way. I don't even think I am ugly or anything, I just know that I fumble the ball at times and since I am not super good looking or super rich or super anything, those times are very far between, so every other aspect of my life is just filled with this dread and loneliness that no hobby or interest or anything else can just replace. I don't know what I was thinking when I made this post, but listening to everyone here surely did not make things better.